I feel that there are two good outcomes that can come from this whole "Boycott GW" movement. The obvious is that if GW sees a dip in sales they might start changing their practices a bit, it shouldn't take too much for them to take notice. if sales numbers sag just a little bit, it should create a reaction. Those numbers are tracked so closely in retail. The second is that other games that compete with GW will get a boost. Nothing is better for us consumers than fierce competition. Making these companies compete for you hobby dollars will only bring us more value.
Couldn't agree more mate. One of the most likely things to cause a company to rest on its laurels and stop serving its customers, is a lack of meaningful competition. GW haven't had meaningful competition for most of their existence, but we live in a world now where all it takes is getting enough eyes on the good stuff, and that can change very quickly.
Don't call yourself a consumer first and foremost. That's what GW wishes you to be. You're a customer and GW isn't providing long paying customers like you or I with the service they should be.
Another obstacle is just how wide spread GW is in the local hobby scene and you may have to be willing to be the first one to plop down the cash to demo games and introduce others to them. You might really enjoy mechwarrior for instance but it doesn't do much good if you're the only one in your area that collects in terms of actually playing that game :P
That is a very optimistic point of view. GW has been dumbing down and micromanaging their products since the late 80s. The corporation continually abuses the hobby community and 3rd party brick and mortar stores yet people keep flocking back to them. People get mad they stop buying for a bit and then like a lot of abusive relationships, they return to their abuser. The retail staff are trained to and encouraged to wring all they can out of the store patrons and honestly the only gaming environment in which I have seen more toxic behavior was in the CCG world. I am glad to see products emerging which are more inclusive and games being introduced which are far more accessible. GW has become a prime example of just because it's been around the longest doesn't mean it's the best.
I would still stay away from all gw stuff even if they changed their practice because i think they are highly likely to reverse back to current practice or come out even with worse ideas after their sales/revenue/profits recovered and improved.
One note about the infinity action packs and their 90 euro price point: They are basically complete armies for full size games. Sure, you could always have more specialists or whatever, but unlike GW starters which do not give you a full army, infinity gives you everything you need at 90 euros + the rules and app are free.
Yeah, whilst it is steep, I definitely appreciate that they are actual, useable forces. I've also heard rumours that infinity is going plastic?? If that happens, I'm sure the price will come down a bit.
The change is both a response to rising prices of the metal they use, and the creation of the SioCast system in the same country (Spain). They're only going to do plastic for the biggest models, the rest will continue on metal. Here's a demo of the casting machine from a recent event, *very* similar to metal casting but not quite the same, quite fast and feels like it will be good even for mass manufacturing, at 60K€ per machine it feels like many small-to-mid-size companies will likely switch to this instead of resin if Corvus Belli succeeds: ua-cam.com/video/aJYUYRrxk7k/v-deo.html Some WarCors (the "community liaison" type people for Infinity) already got their hands on some of the new pre-release plastic models and they report that they look quite good, but we'll have to wait a bit until the community as a whole gets their hands on these. Notably you need to use superglue as the type of plastic is not the same as either GW or the rubbery boardgame or Reaper Bones one, i hear it's a variation of nylon which should be relatively cheap.
Kings of War, Age of Fantasy, Grimdark Future, and Oathmark need to be on this list. All great games I've loved playing... all miniature agnostic and great at supporting the community.
I hate the mentality of, "there are regular people working their. Dont stop supporting those people!" If management shoots everyone in the collective foot, it's not my responsibility as a consumer to keep their lights on with my money.
Number one is a 3D Printer. There are many free games out there, as well as games you can get alongside STLs or hell even "one page rules" they seem great tbh they have a fantasy and sci fi rules for different games most rules are free and easy to learn also have their own STLs to buy or though pateron :)
I worked at the GW in 95 or so... I was in the store at the corporate headquarters in the US. Working for not much more than minimum wage, I was then made to drive over an hour away due to a staff shortage at another store. The training manuals were all called "codex" and any employees were called "heretic marines"... I thought it was unusual that there were NO female store employees. I was told that they would not hire women in the stores because they thought that customers would only come in to hit on them. Furthermore, the company policy was that customers MUST buy something in order to play in the weekly battles held Saturday mornings. If a kid had come in and couldnt afford anything, after 2 weeks they wouldnt be allowed to play. Corporate didnt want the stores to become like hobby shops where people would actually feel comfortable and want to socialize or foster any kind of community. To this day, i will NOT buy GW products. What they charge and how they treat independent stores is horrible. 3d Printing and agnostic minis are the way to go if you must play GW games...
For me, it's Malifaux that scratches my itch the most. It's very story-driven and the models mostly have a keyword, which emcourages building a thematic crew, what I love. Factions are so diverse you never get bored and the models are amazingly detailed. I started playing around a month ago and love it already. The only downside might be it's more difficult to find a local community focused around it
I'd recommend Star Wars Legion. They've got two core sets-one for the galactic civil war and one for the clone war-that are pretty decent value. The minis are much cheaper than GW's stuff, you can play with some of your favorite characters, and the game is very fast paced. There's also decent 3D printer community if youre looking for something other than the bog standard minis.
Gotta recommend Star Breach- mini agnostic faction-based skirmish with order dice, and Five Parsecs From Home- solo sci-fi procedurally generated campaigns. The same producer (Nordic Weasel) has also done Heartbreaker versions of WH4Ok and Rogue Trader. Or there's One Page Rules...
@@TesseractMinis 5 Parsecs in particular just launched a 3rd Edition with Modiphius as the publisher, need to get my hands on it, there's a few quite fun playthroughs online of the 2nd edition if you wanna get a feel (i quite enjoyed this one, love the little special effects: ua-cam.com/video/58M1Hvn7HgY/v-deo.html). And one thing i like about Star Breach, the dude designed it to support damn near every sci-fi trope, from stormtroopers, to the wacky spaceship crew, to damn Predators, to Jedi and Sith, to every 40K faction, to space cops and more. And at this point, OPR requires no explanation, but if you wanna see quite fun playthroughts, Wyloch has done quite a few, that's by far the easiest transition out of GW rulesets and you can use the same minis as he does.
Frostgrave is a great game. If you've got a decent mini/terrain collection you can jump right in. Soldier stats are determined based on what general type of weapon/armour they have. i.e. one/two-hand/bow/crossbow weapon, heavy/light armour etc. which makes it super easy to shoehorn fantasy models into your warband. I've got stargrave but havent played it yet, still yet to paint models for it. same deal though, they both also have solo rules and missions. Joseph mccullough also created rangers of shadowdeep which is a solo fantasy game thats more narrative, its great too, more interesting than just killing stuff and grabbing loot.
I tend to stick with 2D maps (more portable) and Heroic Maps has some of the best ice themed ones. Hirst Arts has very good molds if you are making your own terrain - most of the cave molds should work for ice.
The BattleTech Lore, would building and history is some of the best I've ever dug into, been a big fan since its days with FASA (also Shadowrun!) will have to look up the current incarnation of the system, especially if they support 3d printing, as the minis were often hard to get! - love free rule systems too - so a shout out to One Page rules, everyone should try at least 1 of the games they provide!
It does. Under Catalyst, BattleTech is mini agnostic and is super supportive of fan projects like MegaMek. You’ll also be happy to hear that the rules are mostly the same as classic and the Unseen are back plus most Mechs getting new art and Dark Age finally being over.
I'm sick of corporate monoliths. I prefer separation of game, paint, and mini these days. Wargames Atlantic and North Star paired with Stargrave and One Page Rules cover most of what I need. Then their is Anvil Industries, Kromlech, Artel W, and Wargames Exclusive cover almost all the rest. I recently bought a few of Army Painter kits and I'm looking to pick up some other brands as well.
Couldn’t agree with you more. Once corporations reach a certain size their mission ceases to be about passion for the hobby. Paint makers should concentrate on making the best paint, mini-makers the best minis, and rule writers the best rules.
I'm currently patiently waiting for my first box of WA Les Grognards to arrive. My plan is to build an entirely third party guard army in a sort of dieselpunk aesthetic, so it'll work well in most sci-fi settings so I can gradually start nudging my friends away from 40k and more towards stargrave, deadzone and grimdark, because more than anything I can't be bothered trying to keep up with GWs rules any more 😂
@@sirrathersplendid4825 I got into it when I was a kid during the Rogue Trader days- back when it was actually reasonably priced because you had plastic minis to make up your core infantry (so long as you played the right armies) and could upgrade to the "better" metal models as you went along. Unfortunately, they lost me when they ditched this process and became obviously money-grubbing during 2nd and 3rd. Even going into the local GW store stopped being fun because you were viewed either as a cash cow to be steered towards what they wanted to sell you if you dared to get your wallet out (and manipulating kids out of their pocket money by deliberately giving them bad advice for your own profits is pretty scummy), or a nuisance if you just went in to have a browse. I've only just come back to it thanks to a friend in my DnD group, and Troll Trader who sell loads of second-hand minis. But I'm damned if I'm investing myself in the rules when they use bullshit like drip-feeding codices and power creep, not when OPR and Starforge exist.
also warpath is a good alternative from what ive heard. the company mantic games was founded by a former GW higher up and some former employees. they have their own version of bloodbowl and they made their version of the squats a core race complete with tanks and dreadnoughts, (sporting beards of course) also they have space skaven, the 'veer-myn'.
Mantic games are worth a look for their Kings of War and Warpath systems. Warlord are another great company, both are filled with Ex GW employees and their games are all worth a look.
I've recently gotten into infinity. Code one is a quicker skirmish game that you can get into with terrain which you can then expand into Infinity N4. Code one isn't fully complete but you can use your favourite faction as proxies if you wish until the rest get released.
TRAVELLER (w STRIKER rules) is a great toolkit to get into any Genre of Scifi tabletop and role-playing. You can even replicate any property using the rules and use it for miniature skirmish games or all out Role-playing group campaigns with the GM in charge.
Warcaster is a pretty neat Alt to Kill Team and Marvel: Crisis Protocol is interesting in how you choose which characters to use per mission but you start with 10 models and the mission then has its Threat Level and you pick the models that fit the threat level and every mission has different threat so you are constantly switching between your squad of 10 who will be in or who will sit out.
In Her Majesty's Name is very similar, I believe, to Frostgrave style gameplay (and certainly has a rule set that requires a little filling in). It's set in 1895 on a slightly divergent timeline with a bit of steampunk and fantasy. I've played a few 'warband' style games but generation through tables or other means has never left me with a motley crew that's felt truly mine. Made a dozen companies for this game now and I love every one of them, from researching Victorian polar explorers and adapting Doyle novels, I've got gypsy brigands with headless horsemen to a mech-suited Scotland Yard division, street urchins and slingshots to desert sorceresses riding giant scorpions. And the world beyond GW - discovering that whatever model you're looking for someone probably makes it has been a real joy too.
I'm absolutely addicted to every Osprey game I've heard about. I've played and loved Frostgrave and Gaslands. Bolt Action, Dracula's America, and Zona Alfa also look incredibly fun to play. Definitely going to check out In Her Majesty's Name.
I'm not even really boycotting, I'm just done with GW. I started WAAYYY back in the Rogue Trader days and I just can't get excited about the lore or any new models.
Kings of War is another great alternative. It's very similar to Warhammer Fantasy Battle, especially the design of the orcs and goblins and with the other races.
I would absolutely love if Dropzone Commander could get resurrected, they've been teetering on the edge of death for a few years now. But it's such a cool system and the core gameplay is a total blast. Not to mention how affordable it is.
It’s always short lived. GW is playing the long game and the past is paved with the graves of other games that thought they could dethrone 40k. I have about 10-12 dead games in storage that I was assured was going to be the game that would overtake 40k. This sort of “boycott” has happened multiple times in the past thirty years and never really has any longevity. Not to mention GW is already one step ahead: they no longer expect or care about veteran long term gamers. For every disgruntled boomer that quits playing 40k there are 2-3 little Timmies just discovering GW and whose parents will drop a shit ton on GW product to keep their little prince happy and quiet. Instead of catering to long time gamers moving into middle age their target demographic is now little kids who just need to play for 2-5 years to make GW some profit. Rinse and repeat. Old dudes with UA-cam channels are not seen as special or important by GW no matter how much us old timers want to believe we are valuable customers.
@@softlightsymphonyband Dead games? Just because its no longer sold doesn't mean it's dead I still play Confrontation 🤣 But I think I get your point. For me it's not about hurting them, I couldn't and have no real desire. It's more about removing myself from their current behaviour. For the old timers as I certainly am a short stay with an old friend like Battletech is long over due I feel. Lastly I wouldn't count their victory assured just yet...with the money and noises they are making I see either one of two fates either some with the weight and the financial backing will wade into the market or they will just get bought out by Disney and end up making Avengers for the rest of time.
League of Dungeoneers is a Warhammer Quest inspired Dungeon Crawler....extremely indepth, nice materials, and you can use whatever mini you want as well as their 2d stand ins. they just started their second kickstarter. The game is HUGE.
I bought a 3D printer, and play vehicle games like space warships and such, using rules nobody has heard of. BattleTech was my first and most played miniature game, though these days I've switched to the Alpha Strike simpler/quicker playing rules. Beyond that, I would probably suggest One Page Rules for replacing GW games. They're the same games using the same models, clear copycat. However, OPR is easier to learn and I think it plays better.
Osprey have published some great games, yes, the people that do the army uniforms and kit books. The Lion Rampant (Historical) and Dragon Rampant (classic fantasy) are both great knock about games with an early Warhammer Fantasy Battles vibe. They also are the publishers of Frostgrave/Stargrave. Also there is the USEME ruleset from Alternative armies.
Beyond the gates of Antares by Warlord Games is designed by former GW sculptors and I’ve heard the rule set isn’t too bad, most of the starter sets cost $90 and there’s usually a vehicle included.
A Song of Ice and Fire by CMON is worth a mention, especially if you’re a fan of the books/show. Very good value also. Star Wars Legion is great also. Since my demo, I haven’t touched 40k
I play both Battletech and Infinity. The movement system for Infinity can be a bit tricky at first because of how orders and Automatic Reaction Orders (AROs) work. In a quick summary, at any point of your movement, you can do an action. If, at any point of your movement, an enemy can see you, they generate and can use an ARO at any point of your movement. If you temporarily move to a spot that makes you vulnerable before getting to cover, and that generated an ARO, then your opponent can attack you in your more vulnerable state before you reached cover, denying you that bonus until after that order is complete. Also, each figure has 2 move values. One for a single movement action, and the other as a second movement action. Some units don't move as far during their second movement action as compared to others.
Infinity: Code One and N4. 👍👍👍 Not as expensive as GW games because you only use a handful of units compared to the huuuuge armies you need in 40k or AoS.
Movement in Infinity is honestly pretty easy to break down but gets complicated when you start adding all the details. You "activate" units with "orders" you gain normally from just having units on the table. Usually, a unit provides one order but any unit can normally use any order and even be activated multiple times in a turn. Each unit has a movement stat that is usually broken down into two numbers, something like 4/4 or say 4/6. When you activate a unit, it usually gets 2 actions. These can be broken up like this - Full Action - Unit spends both actions to do a really big thing that takes a lot of time, like interact with a feature on the map. Move Action + Move Action - Unit spends it's time doing things you can do with movement or in place of movement. The first time it moves it uses the first number for movement in it's stat profile and the second time for the second number. That is the distance it moves with the movement order. Move Action + Short Skill - You do movement or something you can do in place of movement and then do an action. This can be your standard 40k move and shoot, or move and slice, or something like move and hack. Pretty simple. Just want to move and shoot? Easy. Got to spend a whole turn claiming an objective? Easy. Want to haul ass? Easy. Where it gets complicated is in a few fun rules. Like so - 1. If you move and shoot, you can shoot at any point during the movement and then continue your movement. This means you can run out from behind a building, snap shot a guy at the end of the street, and end your movement behind the structure of the building that was across the street. 2. Movement isn't just walking. You can climb, rappel, jump pack, drive vehicles like motorcycles, leap, crawl while prone, and other physical activities. Infinity as a game benefits heavily from a level of verticality because of this, often incorporating gaps to leap, buildings to rappel, ladders to climb, cover to go prone behind, and high ledges to jump to. 3. Movement can be other actions. You can spend your movement to try and spot something. You could do an ability unique to your unit. 4. Movement is often modified. Terrain could slow you or speed you up. Environmental effects like low gravity could make things like leaping much easier while something like a dense fog might kill visibility and slow improperly equipped soldiers to a crawl. Missions usually include a set of hazards and modifiers to the normal map that you have to keep an awareness of.
INFINITY is a great skirmish game. 3 core mechanics make it really different 1) face to face rolls. you're always playing even on your opponent's turn. 2) Order pools. you can use all your orders in one model if you like. 3) Hidden information. Some troops can be concealed from the opponent until the last minute. other characteristics that make it an awesome game, apart from the really detailed models, is a really well balanced game, has plenty of different approaches of wining that make replayability almost infinite, and a cinematic feeling hard to compare. the company that makes the game is really connected with the community, speaking of which is one of the best player base of all games.
The reaction ARO system is an incredible piece of game design. After playing with it I don't think I could ever go back to a game with a static 'thumb up your arse wait for the opponent to be done' turn system.
Great vid. I am only learning about the GW "exodus" on the Internet, bit it would be worth mentioning the upcoming new edition of Warzone. It'll be a skirmish game based on the Mutant Chronicles IP, the lifelong Warhammer competitor since the 90s. Keep your eyes peeled...
Great list. Gonna add Warmachine/Hordes by Privateer Press while I'm here. Been playing it for years now, and I will honestly say it plays better than 40k in almost all ways - plus the lore is not bad at all. If you like steampunk/hextech/magic/mechs/giant beasts and more, than Warmachine/Hordes is for you!
@@TesseractMinis No probs. Cool thing you'll also notice is that Warmachine and Hordes have essentially the same rules, so they can play against each other. Kinda like having two games in one, AND you're not stuck with Just the steampunk of WM, or high-fantasy of Hordes - they can both duke it out on the table. Not to mention ther models are incredibly beautiful too. Most are "plastic" but a few models/parts are metal as well. I'm a Menoth main btw. I like killing things with fire, don't get me wrong. But I prefer the knightly path of the Exemplars, thank you V_V lol P.S: Don't stair directly at Reznik
I was interested in Warmachine when it first came out. Steam powered giant robots. What's not to love? The rules. Unless you like a game where you can lose before you start by taking the "wrong" army, then this is not for you. I've dropped out and come back many times, and the rules have changed, but the same problem is there. Too many "Gotcha!" moments for me.
The rules for Infinity are deep but shared by all armies, it allows the designers to create very unique and distinct profiles while also keeping the language shared between factions. So while in 40K the core systems are very simple and straighforward to learn and then each codex is going to be filled with unique special rules and 10,000 different abilities that let units reroll ones but only on a Thursday if they wear a red coat, Infinity has a much deeper and denser core ruleset but once you know that ruleset you know every rule in the game and won't need to go fishing around in multiple different codex or supplement books to find out how exactly something works.
To be fair... Whilst I don't think that will ever happen... It's not hard to see that the minis are their strong suit, not the rules. I would go as far as to say that almost every alternative game I've ever encountered, plays better than its nearest GW rival. Sadly, they never have the same marketing budget, and rarely have the same miniatures quality though.
@@TesseractMinis i used to be into other types of gaming, it seems no mater what the gaming genre there is a AAA studio/company that is the "big kid on the block". Honestly, I find it tiresome. If I had a pc and a 3d printer I would just print what I found that was cheap or free. Then just use cheap or free rules, or make up my own I guess.
Infinity is really cool, and I just wanted to suggest other people check it out. Yes the models are expensive, but I wish you had mentioned that every thing else is FREE. Free rules online, free army list app. What makes the movement so cool in Infinity, is if an enemy sees you move, they can get a reaction, so it keeps both players engaged all the time. When it's your turn, I watch your move, maybe you moved past my sniper who now gets a reaction... from his thermal predator camo (they deploy completely invisible, you take a picture where they are w/ your phone while your opponents back is turned). There are camo makers, where units deploy just as camo, you can't see what they are. It's a really cool game. I wish more people played it. I hope with the rules being free, more people will give it a shot. Just proxy your existing whatever models and have a game!
Even though I still play 40k (but now it's been almost 3 editions that I haven't bought anything in a GW store), my favourite game has been Infinity since 2015, when I first discovered it. To the point where if my friends stopped playing 40k, I would sell all my SM, but if my friends stopped playing Infinity, I would still play it. The games has a great background set in the 23rd century, with a good mix of cyberpunk, space opera and planetary romance. The rules are a bit complicated to master, but luckily there is Code One, which is basically a simplified version of the rules (I've started with the normal rules). Rules and army builder are for free on the official site, but if you want you can also buy the manuals, which have tons of lore and art. You are even allowed to proxy models (with other Infinity ones) at tournaments, which is very good also because Corvus Belli still hasn't produced some of the profiles of the army builder. Tokens are important, but there are many ways to print them paying just the print cost, all legal. Basically, you only need to pay for the minis...and since 15 is the max number of minis allowed in a game, this means that you can save tons of money if compared to GW games. The community is great, never have I seen such a non toxic community. The fact that the game is well balanced (leagues more than 40k) and that Corvus Belli has a better customer relationship than GW sure helps, but the fact is that Infinity players are mostly polite and helpful, while still remaining competitive. You will never hear something like "If you don't play this unit you suck". All in all, if I had to start again playing miniature games today, with all the things I've learned these years, I would definitely choose Infinity.
You'll be pleased to hear that this comment tipped me over the edge from consideration to action. I just ordered the Operation Wildfire Starter Set and the Advance Pack 😎
@@TesseractMinis I am glad to hear it ^^. Some brief notes on the problems you may find with the game: -there are less players than 40k, so you should check the flgs around you or involve some friends -minis have perfect proportions, but this makes them a bit harder to paint than Space Marines -minis are metal (though Corvus Belli is starting to release some thermo plastic ones), which for some people is not good -it takes time to learn the rules, so start with small games (typical tournament match is 300 points, so start with 150 or 200 for the first games) and seriously consider Code One -armies may be discontinued at turns, which means that their minis are not sold anymore (for a time at least) but they are still playable and updated in the army builder, so before choosing a faction you should consider if it is a discontinued one (you may get their models only in stores with some stock left or on the 2nd hand market) Apart from these things, the game is great as I've described above and I think you'll enjoy it. Welcome in the Human Sphere ^^.
Somebody might have mentioned it previously but for a skirmish game I love Ganesha Games products such as my favorite - Song of Blades and Heroes. For larger games I have to jump on the One Page Rules band wagon with Fantasy and Grim Dark Future ♥
I have only recently started playing wargames. I started with FREEBLADES, by DGS Games. It's a fantasy skirmish wargame, with a campaign system - the characters can buy upgrades as they get played, and can end up with drawbacks as a result of play as well, I gather (I've only played a couple of learn to play games). They have their own miniature line, in metal.
Rangers of Shadow Deep should be included with frostgrave/stargrave. Same author, different setting and made to be a more co-op or solo experience. I don’t hate GW or anything but hearing how poorly they pay their employees was really disappointing to me. The only reason I justified paying the premiums for their products was I figured that since they make their minis in the uk labor costs more. £20k a year for game writers just seems like poverty wages to me. What’s their excuse then?
Yeah £2k a year over NMW for a job that pays double that at much smaller companies is definitely a bit sad. And I'll be honest, a £5k bonus after their biggest year ever doesn't even nearly make it right imo. But tbh, I'd long ago given up on being that deep into GW. Every time I try to enjoy it as a lifestyle, I end up deeply disappointed. I'm much happier just buying minis I like and playing games I love.
Conquest is an amazing alternative to AoS. Best of all it has a skirmish mode if you don't want to do the rank and file version. The resin figures are absolutely amazing, and as for detail, they have stepped up their game quite a bit with their newer stuff. Price point is so much better too. $40 is the average for a regiment of 12 nodels. And the rules and army lists are free on the website.
Another good game to try out is This Is Not A Test. Very simple and your encouraged to use what ever minis you like, mainly because last I checked there weren't actually that many minis released specifically for the game, but that might have changed by now.
Not much into historical games personally, but for those who are, BA is definitely a winner. If I were to try a historical game, BA would absolutely be my first choice though.
@@TesseractMinis Its cheap compared to GW and its made by GW veterans who left the company and founded Warlord Games. One of the creators of bolt action is Rick Priestley the creator of WHFB and Warmaster.
Also check out Warpath. Mini agnostic, but the minis are good whilst the rules are free and quite robust. Warmachine looks cool, but complex and a lot of metal to mess with.
Infinity and Kill Teams movement are not similar. You can move around corners and even over obstacles with Infinity, and you even get a handy NUMBER to denote how far you move. The reason it has a second movement stat is note how far you move after your opponent has declared reactions. After movement and declarations are sorted, opposed dice rolls occur to see who wins in the event of combat.
I add to the suggestions: 5 Parsecs From Home! Also Squad Hammer (Chrome Hammer for your ciberpunk skirmish) and One Page Rules (Grimdark Future, Firefight, Gang Wars) all are excellent rule sets to use the minis you already have. Give them at least a try and you won't regret it
@@typehere6689 At first I didn't like it and it still can be frustrating. But I have gotten used to it. It does keep the cost down too. One of the main things I love about Infinity and Stargrave.
I play and have played...a lot of different games. I've model collections for Saga, Infinity (a game I strongly recommend starting with people new to it as you need over a dosen games to grok it against advanced player, a 3mm "I can't Beliebe It Is not Epic" game I playtest, Guild Ball, a few Gw games I have largely given up except Battlefleet Gothic (a fun mess), Black Seas, Dropzone Commander, Monsterpocalypse, and I am looking at Blood and Plunder. I have also started Warcaster and really like it. It is currently my favoritter skirmish game. However Warmachine & Hordes really is something special. Fantastic game.
Since the 80s, I've played Battletech (enjoyable), Heavy Gear (Dream Pod 9), Silent Death (I.C.E.), Interceptor, Centurion, Leviathan (FASA), and 3 games by Ground Zero Games (GZG): Stargrunt 2, Fullthrust, and Dirtside 2, to name a few. There are others (can't remember them at the moment), but the above have been rather enjoyable, and might be worth a look at.
I'm forgetting the actual name, but there is the skirmish game called "Reign in hell" where each player has their own cabal of demons. The pdf is $10, and the hardbook + pdf is $15. What's really great about this one (other than the level up mechanics) is you can use any minis including your bigger 50mm+ minis as you often need a big boii to be your team leader. System runs on d12s and an easy to learn system in general. It's worth a try.
if you also want to get into already established franchises you might recognize besides star wars there is fallout wastland warfare which has recently had a new NCR and Ceasers legion expansion and a skyrim alternative
My local play group has asked tor a break after a local regional we all are playing goes through and i dont mind the chance for a break. Doing conqours the last arguement of kings and potentially bolt action i already play legion to which i greatly enjoy.
Three other sci-fi games that should be added to your list: Beyond the Gates of Antares from Warlord Games is a great alternative to 40k. It scales very well from small forces (3-5 units per side) to larger forces (12-15 units per side). The bolt-action style activation mechanic creates a fog of war that adds to the game. I also like the harder sci-fi aesthetic to the models. Also worth checking out is Star Breach by Elijah M. Kellogg. It is a miniature agnostic skirmish game with the core rules available for free. Star Breach has factions that closely align with the 40k factions so models people already own would fit in nicely. Mantic Games also have some good alternatives in Deadzone (skirmish scale), Firefight/Warpath (bigger battle scale). Their lore is constantly developing, the models are getting better every year, and they're pretty affordable. Also, the digital versions of the rules are available for free online. BONUS GAME: Fast and Dirty by Ivan Sorensen. Free good rules and highly customizable.
I'm in the same boat as you. I've been looking for a good change to gw, bit the minis have to be great as painting is the main part of the hobby for me, the gaming is just a part of it I figured I'd have a go at after a long time away. Came back to gw in 8th ed and I'm pretty much out now that 9th is here, for various reasons. Gotta say that that was quick.
I'm not really a hardcore gw guy, i mostly play dnd and convert their miniatures for that. But i do like Necromunda and warcry so i may check these out
When it comes specifically to Skirmish games, I'm honestly not sure if GW can even claim to having a GOOD offering, nevermind a great one. I'd genuinely go as far as to say that every non GW skirmish game I've looked at, felt better conceived and more playable than its nearest GW equivalent.
I'd like to mention OnePageRules, your basically able to print entire armies and units. There's an easy system and patreon to support, if your not into that there on MyMiniFactory.
Good video and good games. Infinity has a big problem, rules are very complicated (is a bad game for new o casual players) But in my opinion you forgot some really good options: 1 - Song of Fire and Ice: Really good rules and great minis (I love my Rose Guard) 2 - Oathmark: The rules are easy to learn but hard to manage. Not to much minis but quality is enough. 3 - "Saga: Age of Magic" and "Warlords of Erehwon": Solid rules, no specific minis (I'm playing Warlords with a mix of 3D printed minis for my death egypcian army).
People have been saying they will leave GW for years, lmao. It's kinda like that ex your friend keeps saying will never go back to, but you know better. But for real, yeah, I've gotten into the hobby through Kill Team last year up until Pariah Nexus that left and my brother so bummed we decided to switch to Grimdark Future Firefight and will never look back. It would be great if people actually back up their words and really leave GW, because when you do that you start feelling better about the hobby, but GW's marketing has a special way of making the playerbase feel like hostages that is really hard to break.
People said the same thing for World of Warcraft and for about a decade that was true despite such debacles like Warcraft 3: Reforged or their handling of Blitzchung. It took allegations of sexual harassment to finally break people -_-
@@RED_Theory038 It took recent allegations to break because this is rather serious crimes if the allegations is real which is rather tame compared to before and this time there are some people out there will start shaming or call out those who are still playing/supporting blizzard games.
@@zombiessquirrel I wouldn't say their handling of Blitzchung is tame or how insidious their PR machine is whenever they get into hot water and suddenly roll out a gay character in Overwatch, which is a meme even before this XD
@@RED_Theory038 Yea, those you listed are really bad but the current one with harassment allegations make those past mistakes look tame in comparison in term of consequences they suffered as those are just mere PR storm, some boycotts and small scale of employees quit their job. Now with just from this current allegations Blizzard already suffering bigger boycotts, bigger PR storm, multiple huge lawsuits, thousands of employees protest, devs go on strike refuse to work and lost major sponsors...And there might be more incoming as employees are super vocal about this issues and even more if the allegations proven to be true.
ANYTHING from Mantic is a great alternative to GW; ANY WH army you have can be played in Kings of War; and Warpath is there for your scifi fix; Necromunda or Kill Team? Try Deadzone; Man o War? Armada has you covered. Warhammer Quest? Dungeon Saga; 40k? Warpath; Blood Bowl: Dreadball; Space Hulk: Star Saga. They also have The Walking Dead Miniatures Game and Hellboy. What are you waiting for?
Love to see the renewed interest in BattleTech. You can still get a free Warhammer heavy mech if you join MechWarrior Online today! You just need to get 40 kills before the event is over. Not too hard, since it counts both whether you dealt the most damage or just gave the last hit. You can get more prizes if you fulfill other objectives too. There's still about two weeks left!
I feel that there are two good outcomes that can come from this whole "Boycott GW" movement. The obvious is that if GW sees a dip in sales they might start changing their practices a bit, it shouldn't take too much for them to take notice. if sales numbers sag just a little bit, it should create a reaction. Those numbers are tracked so closely in retail. The second is that other games that compete with GW will get a boost. Nothing is better for us consumers than fierce competition. Making these companies compete for you hobby dollars will only bring us more value.
Couldn't agree more mate. One of the most likely things to cause a company to rest on its laurels and stop serving its customers, is a lack of meaningful competition.
GW haven't had meaningful competition for most of their existence, but we live in a world now where all it takes is getting enough eyes on the good stuff, and that can change very quickly.
Don't call yourself a consumer first and foremost. That's what GW wishes you to be. You're a customer and GW isn't providing long paying customers like you or I with the service they should be.
Another obstacle is just how wide spread GW is in the local hobby scene and you may have to be willing to be the first one to plop down the cash to demo games and introduce others to them. You might really enjoy mechwarrior for instance but it doesn't do much good if you're the only one in your area that collects in terms of actually playing that game :P
That is a very optimistic point of view. GW has been dumbing down and micromanaging their products since the late 80s. The corporation continually abuses the hobby community and 3rd party brick and mortar stores yet people keep flocking back to them. People get mad they stop buying for a bit and then like a lot of abusive relationships, they return to their abuser. The retail staff are trained to and encouraged to wring all they can out of the store patrons and honestly the only gaming environment in which I have seen more toxic behavior was in the CCG world. I am glad to see products emerging which are more inclusive and games being introduced which are far more accessible. GW has become a prime example of just because it's been around the longest doesn't mean it's the best.
I would still stay away from all gw stuff even if they changed their practice because i think they are highly likely to reverse back to current practice or come out even with worse ideas after their sales/revenue/profits recovered and improved.
One note about the infinity action packs and their 90 euro price point: They are basically complete armies for full size games. Sure, you could always have more specialists or whatever, but unlike GW starters which do not give you a full army, infinity gives you everything you need at 90 euros + the rules and app are free.
Yeah, whilst it is steep, I definitely appreciate that they are actual, useable forces.
I've also heard rumours that infinity is going plastic?? If that happens, I'm sure the price will come down a bit.
The change is both a response to rising prices of the metal they use, and the creation of the SioCast system in the same country (Spain). They're only going to do plastic for the biggest models, the rest will continue on metal.
Here's a demo of the casting machine from a recent event, *very* similar to metal casting but not quite the same, quite fast and feels like it will be good even for mass manufacturing, at 60K€ per machine it feels like many small-to-mid-size companies will likely switch to this instead of resin if Corvus Belli succeeds: ua-cam.com/video/aJYUYRrxk7k/v-deo.html
Some WarCors (the "community liaison" type people for Infinity) already got their hands on some of the new pre-release plastic models and they report that they look quite good, but we'll have to wait a bit until the community as a whole gets their hands on these. Notably you need to use superglue as the type of plastic is not the same as either GW or the rubbery boardgame or Reaper Bones one, i hear it's a variation of nylon which should be relatively cheap.
@@TesseractMinis Already started. Check out some of their new packs.
@@TesseractMinis Corvus Belli already confirmed that they won't be reducing prices.
¿infinity complete armies? Infinity scope is spec-ops.
Kings of War, Age of Fantasy, Grimdark Future, and Oathmark need to be on this list. All great games I've loved playing... all miniature agnostic and great at supporting the community.
Sounds like a clutch of great games to me!
Kings of War for sure, especially with how many more people are moving to it right now
Kings of War and Oathmark definitely deserve a look.
True. I’m liking Sludge and Stargrave as well.
@@peterdickinson4599 my kids love playing stargrave with me because of its more narrative style. All their crew have awesome (hillarious) names.
I hate the mentality of, "there are regular people working their. Dont stop supporting those people!"
If management shoots everyone in the collective foot, it's not my responsibility as a consumer to keep their lights on with my money.
Number one is a 3D Printer. There are many free games out there, as well as games you can get alongside STLs or hell even "one page rules" they seem great tbh they have a fantasy and sci fi rules for different games most rules are free and easy to learn also have their own STLs to buy or though pateron :)
I worked at the GW in 95 or so... I was in the store at the corporate headquarters in the US. Working for not much more than minimum wage, I was then made to drive over an hour away due to a staff shortage at another store. The training manuals were all called "codex" and any employees were called "heretic marines"... I thought it was unusual that there were NO female store employees. I was told that they would not hire women in the stores because they thought that customers would only come in to hit on them. Furthermore, the company policy was that customers MUST buy something in order to play in the weekly battles held Saturday mornings. If a kid had come in and couldnt afford anything, after 2 weeks they wouldnt be allowed to play. Corporate didnt want the stores to become like hobby shops where people would actually feel comfortable and want to socialize or foster any kind of community. To this day, i will NOT buy GW products. What they charge and how they treat independent stores is horrible. 3d Printing and agnostic minis are the way to go if you must play GW games...
For me, it's Malifaux that scratches my itch the most. It's very story-driven and the models mostly have a keyword, which emcourages building a thematic crew, what I love. Factions are so diverse you never get bored and the models are amazingly detailed. I started playing around a month ago and love it already. The only downside might be it's more difficult to find a local community focused around it
Faux is amazing! I went to Infinity after GW killed 8th, then to Faux, they're my two loves.
Seconded
+1
I'd recommend Star Wars Legion. They've got two core sets-one for the galactic civil war and one for the clone war-that are pretty decent value. The minis are much cheaper than GW's stuff, you can play with some of your favorite characters, and the game is very fast paced. There's also decent 3D printer community if youre looking for something other than the bog standard minis.
Legion is amazing. Love that game so much.
Legion is 8 outta 8 great mate!
Gotta recommend Star Breach- mini agnostic faction-based skirmish with order dice, and Five Parsecs From Home- solo sci-fi procedurally generated campaigns. The same producer (Nordic Weasel) has also done Heartbreaker versions of WH4Ok and Rogue Trader. Or there's One Page Rules...
Good calls, all games I've had recommended to me before! Thanks :)
@@TesseractMinis 5 Parsecs in particular just launched a 3rd Edition with Modiphius as the publisher, need to get my hands on it, there's a few quite fun playthroughs online of the 2nd edition if you wanna get a feel (i quite enjoyed this one, love the little special effects: ua-cam.com/video/58M1Hvn7HgY/v-deo.html).
And one thing i like about Star Breach, the dude designed it to support damn near every sci-fi trope, from stormtroopers, to the wacky spaceship crew, to damn Predators, to Jedi and Sith, to every 40K faction, to space cops and more.
And at this point, OPR requires no explanation, but if you wanna see quite fun playthroughts, Wyloch has done quite a few, that's by far the easiest transition out of GW rulesets and you can use the same minis as he does.
Frostgrave is a great game. If you've got a decent mini/terrain collection you can jump right in. Soldier stats are determined based on what general type of weapon/armour they have. i.e. one/two-hand/bow/crossbow weapon, heavy/light armour etc. which makes it super easy to shoehorn fantasy models into your warband. I've got stargrave but havent played it yet, still yet to paint models for it. same deal though, they both also have solo rules and missions. Joseph mccullough also created rangers of shadowdeep which is a solo fantasy game thats more narrative, its great too, more interesting than just killing stuff and grabbing loot.
I tend to stick with 2D maps (more portable) and Heroic Maps has some of the best ice themed ones.
Hirst Arts has very good molds if you are making your own terrain - most of the cave molds should work for ice.
The BattleTech Lore, would building and history is some of the best I've ever dug into, been a big fan since its days with FASA (also Shadowrun!) will have to look up the current incarnation of the system, especially if they support 3d printing, as the minis were often hard to get! - love free rule systems too - so a shout out to One Page rules, everyone should try at least 1 of the games they provide!
It does. Under Catalyst, BattleTech is mini agnostic and is super supportive of fan projects like MegaMek.
You’ll also be happy to hear that the rules are mostly the same as classic and the Unseen are back plus most Mechs getting new art and Dark Age finally being over.
I'm sick of corporate monoliths. I prefer separation of game, paint, and mini these days.
Wargames Atlantic and North Star paired with Stargrave and One Page Rules cover most of what I need.
Then their is Anvil Industries, Kromlech, Artel W, and Wargames Exclusive cover almost all the rest.
I recently bought a few of Army Painter kits and I'm looking to pick up some other brands as well.
I’m really impressed with onepagerules. Great system, cheap, use any models you like.
Couldn’t agree with you more. Once corporations reach a certain size their mission ceases to be about passion for the hobby.
Paint makers should concentrate on making the best paint, mini-makers the best minis, and rule writers the best rules.
I'm currently patiently waiting for my first box of WA Les Grognards to arrive. My plan is to build an entirely third party guard army in a sort of dieselpunk aesthetic, so it'll work well in most sci-fi settings so I can gradually start nudging my friends away from 40k and more towards stargrave, deadzone and grimdark, because more than anything I can't be bothered trying to keep up with GWs rules any more 😂
@@peterclarke7240 - Never touched 40K because it was such a clear cash-grab, and a pathetic blam blam blam game.
@@sirrathersplendid4825 I got into it when I was a kid during the Rogue Trader days- back when it was actually reasonably priced because you had plastic minis to make up your core infantry (so long as you played the right armies) and could upgrade to the "better" metal models as you went along. Unfortunately, they lost me when they ditched this process and became obviously money-grubbing during 2nd and 3rd. Even going into the local GW store stopped being fun because you were viewed either as a cash cow to be steered towards what they wanted to sell you if you dared to get your wallet out (and manipulating kids out of their pocket money by deliberately giving them bad advice for your own profits is pretty scummy), or a nuisance if you just went in to have a browse.
I've only just come back to it thanks to a friend in my DnD group, and Troll Trader who sell loads of second-hand minis. But I'm damned if I'm investing myself in the rules when they use bullshit like drip-feeding codices and power creep, not when OPR and Starforge exist.
also warpath is a good alternative from what ive heard. the company mantic games was founded by a former GW higher up and some former employees. they have their own version of bloodbowl and they made their version of the squats a core race complete with tanks and dreadnoughts, (sporting beards of course) also they have space skaven, the 'veer-myn'.
Mantic games are worth a look for their Kings of War and Warpath systems. Warlord are another great company, both are filled with Ex GW employees and their games are all worth a look.
Infinity has by far, the best scifi models world wide. That's only my opinion.
I've recently gotten into infinity. Code one is a quicker skirmish game that you can get into with terrain which you can then expand into Infinity N4. Code one isn't fully complete but you can use your favourite faction as proxies if you wish until the rest get released.
TRAVELLER (w STRIKER rules) is a great toolkit to get into any Genre of Scifi tabletop and role-playing. You can even replicate any property using the rules and use it for miniature skirmish games or all out Role-playing group campaigns with the GM in charge.
Warcaster is a pretty neat Alt to Kill Team and Marvel: Crisis Protocol is interesting in how you choose which characters to use per mission but you start with 10 models and the mission then has its Threat Level and you pick the models that fit the threat level and every mission has different threat so you are constantly switching between your squad of 10 who will be in or who will sit out.
In Her Majesty's Name is very similar, I believe, to Frostgrave style gameplay (and certainly has a rule set that requires a little filling in). It's set in 1895 on a slightly divergent timeline with a bit of steampunk and fantasy. I've played a few 'warband' style games but generation through tables or other means has never left me with a motley crew that's felt truly mine. Made a dozen companies for this game now and I love every one of them, from researching Victorian polar explorers and adapting Doyle novels, I've got gypsy brigands with headless horsemen to a mech-suited Scotland Yard division, street urchins and slingshots to desert sorceresses riding giant scorpions.
And the world beyond GW - discovering that whatever model you're looking for someone probably makes it has been a real joy too.
I'm absolutely addicted to every Osprey game I've heard about. I've played and loved Frostgrave and Gaslands. Bolt Action, Dracula's America, and Zona Alfa also look incredibly fun to play. Definitely going to check out In Her Majesty's Name.
If you like Gaslands, you might wanna come back next week ;)
I'm not even really boycotting, I'm just done with GW. I started WAAYYY back in the Rogue Trader days and I just can't get excited about the lore or any new models.
Yeah. Same here. Im run out of fuel.
Kings of War is another great alternative. It's very similar to Warhammer Fantasy Battle, especially the design of the orcs and goblins and with the other races.
Been a lot of suggestions for this one, I'll definitely have to take a look!
I would absolutely love if Dropzone Commander could get resurrected, they've been teetering on the edge of death for a few years now. But it's such a cool system and the core gameplay is a total blast. Not to mention how affordable it is.
GW are yet again on a binge of bad behaviour; the bonus of which is the indie game scene flourishes. So crack on GW crack on lol
It’s always short lived. GW is playing the long game and the past is paved with the graves of other games that thought they could dethrone 40k. I have about 10-12 dead games in storage that I was assured was going to be the game that would overtake 40k. This sort of “boycott” has happened multiple times in the past thirty years and never really has any longevity.
Not to mention GW is already one step ahead: they no longer expect or care about veteran long term gamers. For every disgruntled boomer that quits playing 40k there are 2-3 little Timmies just discovering GW and whose parents will drop a shit ton on GW product to keep their little prince happy and quiet. Instead of catering to long time gamers moving into middle age their target demographic is now little kids who just need to play for 2-5 years to make GW some profit. Rinse and repeat.
Old dudes with UA-cam channels are not seen as special or important by GW no matter how much us old timers want to believe we are valuable customers.
@@softlightsymphonyband Dead games? Just because its no longer sold doesn't mean it's dead I still play Confrontation 🤣
But I think I get your point.
For me it's not about hurting them, I couldn't and have no real desire. It's more about removing myself from their current behaviour.
For the old timers as I certainly am a short stay with an old friend like Battletech is long over due I feel.
Lastly I wouldn't count their victory assured just yet...with the money and noises they are making I see either one of two fates either some with the weight and the financial backing will wade into the market or they will just get bought out by Disney and end up making Avengers for the rest of time.
League of Dungeoneers is a Warhammer Quest inspired Dungeon Crawler....extremely indepth, nice materials, and you can use whatever mini you want as well as their 2d stand ins. they just started their second kickstarter. The game is HUGE.
I bought a 3D printer, and play vehicle games like space warships and such, using rules nobody has heard of. BattleTech was my first and most played miniature game, though these days I've switched to the Alpha Strike simpler/quicker playing rules. Beyond that, I would probably suggest One Page Rules for replacing GW games. They're the same games using the same models, clear copycat. However, OPR is easier to learn and I think it plays better.
Osprey have published some great games, yes, the people that do the army uniforms and kit books. The Lion Rampant (Historical) and Dragon Rampant (classic fantasy) are both great knock about games with an early Warhammer Fantasy Battles vibe.
They also are the publishers of Frostgrave/Stargrave.
Also there is the USEME ruleset from Alternative armies.
Infinity and warmachine/hordes my big games now
Beyond the gates of Antares by Warlord Games is designed by former GW sculptors and I’ve heard the rule set isn’t too bad, most of the starter sets cost $90 and there’s usually a vehicle included.
I had a look, it seems to be Tau Vs Tau.
A Song of Ice and Fire by CMON is worth a mention, especially if you’re a fan of the books/show. Very good value also.
Star Wars Legion is great also. Since my demo, I haven’t touched 40k
Infinity is crazy fun. So much to take into consideration, strategic and engaging. Really amazing minis as well.
I'm literally just about to upload a community post with a photo of my first finished infinity mini! I'm very much in love!
I play both Battletech and Infinity. The movement system for Infinity can be a bit tricky at first because of how orders and Automatic Reaction Orders (AROs) work. In a quick summary, at any point of your movement, you can do an action. If, at any point of your movement, an enemy can see you, they generate and can use an ARO at any point of your movement. If you temporarily move to a spot that makes you vulnerable before getting to cover, and that generated an ARO, then your opponent can attack you in your more vulnerable state before you reached cover, denying you that bonus until after that order is complete.
Also, each figure has 2 move values. One for a single movement action, and the other as a second movement action. Some units don't move as far during their second movement action as compared to others.
Infinity: Code One and N4. 👍👍👍
Not as expensive as GW games because you only use a handful of units compared to the huuuuge armies you need in 40k or AoS.
Movement in Infinity is honestly pretty easy to break down but gets complicated when you start adding all the details. You "activate" units with "orders" you gain normally from just having units on the table. Usually, a unit provides one order but any unit can normally use any order and even be activated multiple times in a turn. Each unit has a movement stat that is usually broken down into two numbers, something like 4/4 or say 4/6. When you activate a unit, it usually gets 2 actions. These can be broken up like this -
Full Action - Unit spends both actions to do a really big thing that takes a lot of time, like interact with a feature on the map.
Move Action + Move Action - Unit spends it's time doing things you can do with movement or in place of movement. The first time it moves it uses the first number for movement in it's stat profile and the second time for the second number. That is the distance it moves with the movement order.
Move Action + Short Skill - You do movement or something you can do in place of movement and then do an action. This can be your standard 40k move and shoot, or move and slice, or something like move and hack.
Pretty simple. Just want to move and shoot? Easy. Got to spend a whole turn claiming an objective? Easy. Want to haul ass? Easy. Where it gets complicated is in a few fun rules. Like so -
1. If you move and shoot, you can shoot at any point during the movement and then continue your movement. This means you can run out from behind a building, snap shot a guy at the end of the street, and end your movement behind the structure of the building that was across the street.
2. Movement isn't just walking. You can climb, rappel, jump pack, drive vehicles like motorcycles, leap, crawl while prone, and other physical activities. Infinity as a game benefits heavily from a level of verticality because of this, often incorporating gaps to leap, buildings to rappel, ladders to climb, cover to go prone behind, and high ledges to jump to.
3. Movement can be other actions. You can spend your movement to try and spot something. You could do an ability unique to your unit.
4. Movement is often modified. Terrain could slow you or speed you up. Environmental effects like low gravity could make things like leaping much easier while something like a dense fog might kill visibility and slow improperly equipped soldiers to a crawl. Missions usually include a set of hazards and modifiers to the normal map that you have to keep an awareness of.
I can see why people feel like the new Kill Team has similarities to this, for sure.
Thanks for the explanation!
INFINITY is a great skirmish game. 3 core mechanics make it really different 1) face to face rolls. you're always playing even on your opponent's turn. 2) Order pools. you can use all your orders in one model if you like. 3) Hidden information. Some troops can be concealed from the opponent until the last minute.
other characteristics that make it an awesome game, apart from the really detailed models, is a really well balanced game, has plenty of different approaches of wining that make replayability almost infinite, and a cinematic feeling hard to compare. the company that makes the game is really connected with the community, speaking of which is one of the best player base of all games.
The reaction ARO system is an incredible piece of game design. After playing with it I don't think I could ever go back to a game with a static 'thumb up your arse wait for the opponent to be done' turn system.
Battletech, the game that made their own cartoon become in world media propaganda for the inner sphere.
Heck yeah boys, come on over to battletech! We'd love to have ya!
Great vid. I am only learning about the GW "exodus" on the Internet, bit it would be worth mentioning the upcoming new edition of Warzone. It'll be a skirmish game based on the Mutant Chronicles IP, the lifelong Warhammer competitor since the 90s. Keep your eyes peeled...
If there's more infinity content in future here I'll drop by again
Great list. Gonna add Warmachine/Hordes by Privateer Press while I'm here. Been playing it for years now, and I will honestly say it plays better than 40k in almost all ways - plus the lore is not bad at all. If you like steampunk/hextech/magic/mechs/giant beasts and more, than Warmachine/Hordes is for you!
Warmachine is most certainly one I really need to have a look in to! Thanks
@@TesseractMinis No probs. Cool thing you'll also notice is that Warmachine and Hordes have essentially the same rules, so they can play against each other. Kinda like having two games in one, AND you're not stuck with Just the steampunk of WM, or high-fantasy of Hordes - they can both duke it out on the table. Not to mention ther models are incredibly beautiful too. Most are "plastic" but a few models/parts are metal as well. I'm a Menoth main btw. I like killing things with fire, don't get me wrong. But I prefer the knightly path of the Exemplars, thank you V_V lol
P.S: Don't stair directly at Reznik
I was interested in Warmachine when it first came out. Steam powered giant robots. What's not to love? The rules. Unless you like a game where you can lose before you start by taking the "wrong" army, then this is not for you. I've dropped out and come back many times, and the rules have changed, but the same problem is there. Too many "Gotcha!" moments for me.
Understanding that Privateer Press is hard to get over seas in Europe, there is also Warcaster Neo Mechanica and warmachine/hordes as an alternative
Infinity minis are absolutely gorgeous. I've heard the game is a bit complicated to play, but daaamn this minis are amazing.
They have 2 sets of rules; full rules (N4) and simplified rules (Code One).
The rules for Infinity are deep but shared by all armies, it allows the designers to create very unique and distinct profiles while also keeping the language shared between factions.
So while in 40K the core systems are very simple and straighforward to learn and then each codex is going to be filled with unique special rules and 10,000 different abilities that let units reroll ones but only on a Thursday if they wear a red coat, Infinity has a much deeper and denser core ruleset but once you know that ruleset you know every rule in the game and won't need to go fishing around in multiple different codex or supplement books to find out how exactly something works.
GW should stop selling their rules. Sell lore, sell models. Then make the rules free pdf's
To be fair... Whilst I don't think that will ever happen... It's not hard to see that the minis are their strong suit, not the rules.
I would go as far as to say that almost every alternative game I've ever encountered, plays better than its nearest GW rival. Sadly, they never have the same marketing budget, and rarely have the same miniatures quality though.
@@TesseractMinis i used to be into other types of gaming, it seems no mater what the gaming genre there is a AAA studio/company that is the "big kid on the block". Honestly, I find it tiresome. If I had a pc and a 3d printer I would just print what I found that was cheap or free. Then just use cheap or free rules, or make up my own I guess.
Infinity is really cool, and I just wanted to suggest other people check it out. Yes the models are expensive, but I wish you had mentioned that every thing else is FREE. Free rules online, free army list app.
What makes the movement so cool in Infinity, is if an enemy sees you move, they can get a reaction, so it keeps both players engaged all the time. When it's your turn, I watch your move, maybe you moved past my sniper who now gets a reaction... from his thermal predator camo (they deploy completely invisible, you take a picture where they are w/ your phone while your opponents back is turned). There are camo makers, where units deploy just as camo, you can't see what they are. It's a really cool game. I wish more people played it. I hope with the rules being free, more people will give it a shot. Just proxy your existing whatever models and have a game!
It's definitely a cheaper barrier to entry than GW. I also find the starter sets rather reasonable, considering it's all you really need to play.
I just a few hours ago caved and ordered an infinity starter set... So all y'all suggesting infinity can pat yourself on the back :D
Even though I still play 40k (but now it's been almost 3 editions that I haven't bought anything in a GW store), my favourite game has been Infinity since 2015, when I first discovered it. To the point where if my friends stopped playing 40k, I would sell all my SM, but if my friends stopped playing Infinity, I would still play it.
The games has a great background set in the 23rd century, with a good mix of cyberpunk, space opera and planetary romance. The rules are a bit complicated to master, but luckily there is Code One, which is basically a simplified version of the rules (I've started with the normal rules). Rules and army builder are for free on the official site, but if you want you can also buy the manuals, which have tons of lore and art. You are even allowed to proxy models (with other Infinity ones) at tournaments, which is very good also because Corvus Belli still hasn't produced some of the profiles of the army builder. Tokens are important, but there are many ways to print them paying just the print cost, all legal. Basically, you only need to pay for the minis...and since 15 is the max number of minis allowed in a game, this means that you can save tons of money if compared to GW games.
The community is great, never have I seen such a non toxic community. The fact that the game is well balanced (leagues more than 40k) and that Corvus Belli has a better customer relationship than GW sure helps, but the fact is that Infinity players are mostly polite and helpful, while still remaining competitive. You will never hear something like "If you don't play this unit you suck".
All in all, if I had to start again playing miniature games today, with all the things I've learned these years, I would definitely choose Infinity.
You'll be pleased to hear that this comment tipped me over the edge from consideration to action. I just ordered the Operation Wildfire Starter Set and the Advance Pack 😎
@@TesseractMinis I am glad to hear it ^^. Some brief notes on the problems you may find with the game:
-there are less players than 40k, so you should check the flgs around you or involve some friends
-minis have perfect proportions, but this makes them a bit harder to paint than Space Marines
-minis are metal (though Corvus Belli is starting to release some thermo plastic ones), which for some people is not good
-it takes time to learn the rules, so start with small games (typical tournament match is 300 points, so start with 150 or 200 for the first games) and seriously consider Code One
-armies may be discontinued at turns, which means that their minis are not sold anymore (for a time at least) but they are still playable and updated in the army builder, so before choosing a faction you should consider if it is a discontinued one (you may get their models only in stores with some stock left or on the 2nd hand market)
Apart from these things, the game is great as I've described above and I think you'll enjoy it. Welcome in the Human Sphere ^^.
Relicblade needs all the love. An incredible game from an incredible creative.
Somebody might have mentioned it previously but for a skirmish game I love Ganesha Games products such as my favorite - Song of Blades and Heroes. For larger games I have to jump on the One Page Rules band wagon with Fantasy and Grim Dark Future ♥
And here we go again. Won't touch anything Warhammer for a while if not for good. Thanks for the recommendation. Will try Battletech for now.
Battletech has the same problems right now.
I have only recently started playing wargames. I started with FREEBLADES, by DGS Games. It's a fantasy skirmish wargame, with a campaign system - the characters can buy upgrades as they get played, and can end up with drawbacks as a result of play as well, I gather (I've only played a couple of learn to play games). They have their own miniature line, in metal.
Sounds like my kinda game!
Kings of war gets my vote, wonderful depth of play and with each unit a chance to create a mini didiorama using whatever miniatures you like.
Rangers of Shadow Deep should be included with frostgrave/stargrave. Same author, different setting and made to be a more co-op or solo experience. I don’t hate GW or anything but hearing how poorly they pay their employees was really disappointing to me. The only reason I justified paying the premiums for their products was I figured that since they make their minis in the uk labor costs more. £20k a year for game writers just seems like poverty wages to me. What’s their excuse then?
Yeah £2k a year over NMW for a job that pays double that at much smaller companies is definitely a bit sad. And I'll be honest, a £5k bonus after their biggest year ever doesn't even nearly make it right imo.
But tbh, I'd long ago given up on being that deep into GW. Every time I try to enjoy it as a lifestyle, I end up deeply disappointed. I'm much happier just buying minis I like and playing games I love.
Who’s here in 2024?
I personally recommend The Ninth Age. You can play with your old WH fantasy armies.
Battletech also has a pretty dystopian background and rich deep lore... then came the Clans, but hey, ya cant have everything...
Dead zone by mantic games is great fun
Conquest is an amazing alternative to AoS. Best of all it has a skirmish mode if you don't want to do the rank and file version. The resin figures are absolutely amazing, and as for detail, they have stepped up their game quite a bit with their newer stuff. Price point is so much better too. $40 is the average for a regiment of 12 nodels. And the rules and army lists are free on the website.
Squad Hammer Core: People’s Edition. Free, simple and customisable skirmish game that's really fun!
All hail the Nordic Weasel!
Another good game to try out is This Is Not A Test.
Very simple and your encouraged to use what ever minis you like, mainly because last I checked there weren't actually that many minis released specifically for the game, but that might have changed by now.
No mention of Bolt Action?
Not much into historical games personally, but for those who are, BA is definitely a winner. If I were to try a historical game, BA would absolutely be my first choice though.
@@TesseractMinis Its cheap compared to GW and its made by GW veterans who left the company and founded Warlord Games. One of the creators of bolt action is Rick Priestley the creator of WHFB and Warmaster.
Warmachine and Hordes is my favorite alternative
They've been very popular choices! I'll have to look into them.
Also check out Warpath. Mini agnostic, but the minis are good whilst the rules are free and quite robust.
Warmachine looks cool, but complex and a lot of metal to mess with.
Liked the lighting in this one, and great to hear about other games as I don't know much about this side of things. Cheers
Thanks buddy ❤️ always appreciate your input
I would recommend Warcaster from Privateer Press. Its their new scifi game. Its essentially a more modern streamlined Warmachine/Hordes.
Great video! I personally love Stargrave. It's a more narrative style than most GW games.
Infinity and Kill Teams movement are not similar. You can move around corners and even over obstacles with Infinity, and you even get a handy NUMBER to denote how far you move. The reason it has a second movement stat is note how far you move after your opponent has declared reactions. After movement and declarations are sorted, opposed dice rolls occur to see who wins in the event of combat.
I add to the suggestions: 5 Parsecs From Home! Also Squad Hammer (Chrome Hammer for your ciberpunk skirmish) and One Page Rules (Grimdark Future, Firefight, Gang Wars) all are excellent rule sets to use the minis you already have. Give them at least a try and you won't regret it
5 Parsecs and 5 Leagues sound so fun to play. Been meaning to buy the rules for a while now.
Love Battletech. Been playing since the 80's
Infinity: FREE rules, FREE wiki, FREE army builder, 15 figure cap.
Not a fan of low model caps, but low minimum model counts should be good.
@@typehere6689 At first I didn't like it and it still can be frustrating. But I have gotten used to it. It does keep the cost down too. One of the main things I love about Infinity and Stargrave.
met the para bellum people a couple years back, they are good people. They were very good to the streamers too. conquest is good too.
Stargrunt II (15mm) or Dirtside II (6mm) by Ground Zero Games is also a good option and definately less expensve.
SAGA from Studio Tomahawk is a blast and has an "Age of Magic" sourcebook that is ideal for porting over AoS armies.
Para Bellum rocks and the crew which includes some of the main devs they send to cons are awesome and easy to talk to.
I miss the uncomplicated Warhammer Fantasy days and miniatures.
Try and of fantasy by one page rules... It's totally free and excellent
I play and have played...a lot of different games. I've model collections for Saga, Infinity (a game I strongly recommend starting with people new to it as you need over a dosen games to grok it against advanced player, a 3mm "I can't Beliebe It Is not Epic" game I playtest, Guild Ball, a few Gw games I have largely given up except Battlefleet Gothic (a fun mess), Black Seas, Dropzone Commander, Monsterpocalypse, and I am looking at Blood and Plunder. I have also started Warcaster and really like it. It is currently my favoritter skirmish game. However Warmachine & Hordes really is something special. Fantastic game.
Warcaster and Dropzone are both very niche, and excellent
Saga❤️
What about Mantics Kings of War? There is a mass battle game but multi base so that one unit is on one base, you also have vanguard as well
I'm hearing a ton of good stuff about it in these comments! It wasn't mentioned because it's not one I was aware of, but I'll be remedying that!
Since the 80s, I've played Battletech (enjoyable), Heavy Gear (Dream Pod 9), Silent Death (I.C.E.), Interceptor, Centurion, Leviathan (FASA), and 3 games by Ground Zero Games (GZG): Stargrunt 2, Fullthrust, and Dirtside 2, to name a few.
There are others (can't remember them at the moment), but the above have been rather enjoyable, and might be worth a look at.
I came here looking for this very answer. Thank you. I gave them way to much
I'm forgetting the actual name, but there is the skirmish game called "Reign in hell" where each player has their own cabal of demons. The pdf is $10, and the hardbook + pdf is $15. What's really great about this one (other than the level up mechanics) is you can use any minis including your bigger 50mm+ minis as you often need a big boii to be your team leader. System runs on d12s and an easy to learn system in general. It's worth a try.
That's the game that Tabletop Minions and Vince Ventruella designed, I believe. Keep meaning to look into it.
if you also want to get into already established franchises you might recognize besides star wars there is fallout wastland warfare which has recently had a new NCR and Ceasers legion expansion and a skyrim alternative
My local play group has asked tor a break after a local regional we all are playing goes through and i dont mind the chance for a break. Doing conqours the last arguement of kings and potentially bolt action i already play legion to which i greatly enjoy.
Three other sci-fi games that should be added to your list:
Beyond the Gates of Antares from Warlord Games is a great alternative to 40k. It scales very well from small forces (3-5 units per side) to larger forces (12-15 units per side). The bolt-action style activation mechanic creates a fog of war that adds to the game. I also like the harder sci-fi aesthetic to the models.
Also worth checking out is Star Breach by Elijah M. Kellogg. It is a miniature agnostic skirmish game with the core rules available for free. Star Breach has factions that closely align with the 40k factions so models people already own would fit in nicely.
Mantic Games also have some good alternatives in Deadzone (skirmish scale), Firefight/Warpath (bigger battle scale). Their lore is constantly developing, the models are getting better every year, and they're pretty affordable. Also, the digital versions of the rules are available for free online.
BONUS GAME: Fast and Dirty by Ivan Sorensen. Free good rules and highly customizable.
Awesome stuff! Thanks for the suggestions. And for taking the time to make them!
I started playing kings of war and even battlegrounds. Been having alot of fun this far :)
Kinda funny watching this video now
Thanks I've been looking for alternatives
I'm in the same boat as you.
I've been looking for a good change to gw, bit the minis have to be great as painting is the main part of the hobby for me, the gaming is just a part of it I figured I'd have a go at after a long time away.
Came back to gw in 8th ed and I'm pretty much out now that 9th is here, for various reasons. Gotta say that that was quick.
I'm not really a hardcore gw guy, i mostly play dnd and convert their miniatures for that. But i do like Necromunda and warcry so i may check these out
When it comes specifically to Skirmish games, I'm honestly not sure if GW can even claim to having a GOOD offering, nevermind a great one. I'd genuinely go as far as to say that every non GW skirmish game I've looked at, felt better conceived and more playable than its nearest GW equivalent.
I'd like to mention OnePageRules, your basically able to print entire armies and units. There's an easy system and patreon to support, if your not into that there on MyMiniFactory.
OPR are one I'm currently looking into with great interest :)
@@TesseractMinis Awesome! I've printed a couple of the minis, quite detailed.
Gave up all things GW tabletop at the end of 6th Edition. It's been Fantasy Flight, Mantic, and Warlord Games for me.
Good video and good games.
Infinity has a big problem, rules are very complicated (is a bad game for new o casual players)
But in my opinion you forgot some really good options:
1 - Song of Fire and Ice: Really good rules and great minis (I love my Rose Guard)
2 - Oathmark: The rules are easy to learn but hard to manage. Not to much minis but quality is enough.
3 - "Saga: Age of Magic" and "Warlords of Erehwon": Solid rules, no specific minis (I'm playing Warlords with a mix of 3D printed minis for my death egypcian army).
People have been saying they will leave GW for years, lmao. It's kinda like that ex your friend keeps saying will never go back to, but you know better.
But for real, yeah, I've gotten into the hobby through Kill Team last year up until Pariah Nexus that left and my brother so bummed we decided to switch to Grimdark Future Firefight and will never look back.
It would be great if people actually back up their words and really leave GW, because when you do that you start feelling better about the hobby, but GW's marketing has a special way of making the playerbase feel like hostages that is really hard to break.
People said the same thing for World of Warcraft and for about a decade that was true despite such debacles like Warcraft 3: Reforged or their handling of Blitzchung. It took allegations of sexual harassment to finally break people -_-
@@RED_Theory038 It took recent allegations to break because this is rather serious crimes if the allegations is real which is rather tame compared to before and this time there are some people out there will start shaming or call out those who are still playing/supporting blizzard games.
@@zombiessquirrel I wouldn't say their handling of Blitzchung is tame or how insidious their PR machine is whenever they get into hot water and suddenly roll out a gay character in Overwatch, which is a meme even before this XD
@@RED_Theory038 Yea, those you listed are really bad but the current one with harassment allegations make those past mistakes look tame in comparison in term of consequences they suffered as those are just mere PR storm, some boycotts and small scale of employees quit their job. Now with just from this current allegations Blizzard already suffering bigger boycotts, bigger PR storm, multiple huge lawsuits, thousands of employees protest, devs go on strike refuse to work and lost major sponsors...And there might be more incoming as employees are super vocal about this issues and even more if the allegations proven to be true.
I might pick up Infinity. Always loved the figs and the concept. Have a couple of Infinity figs in my guard army.
I am designing a minis-agnostic skirmish game specifically intended for competitive play.
Infinity is awesome. And its not an expensive game, because you only need 10-12 for your army. The maximum army size in any infinity game is 15.
I kinda agree, but the main reason I don't is because I don't know a single Wargamer who's invested in a game, but only collects one army then stops 😂
I would also suggest Marvel Crisis Protocol and Warmachine and Hordes as well as Monsterpocolyose and Warcaster.
Lol 2 years later...here we are again.
Dead zone, Brutality, Space Weirdos, Oathmark, Pulp Alley, Fist full of Lead, just to mention a few more.
What about Grimdark Future? Its a free ruleset for both Fantasy and sci-fi universes.
ANYTHING from Mantic is a great alternative to GW; ANY WH army you have can be played in Kings of War; and Warpath is there for your scifi fix; Necromunda or Kill Team? Try Deadzone; Man o War? Armada has you covered. Warhammer Quest? Dungeon Saga; 40k? Warpath; Blood Bowl: Dreadball; Space Hulk: Star Saga. They also have The Walking Dead Miniatures Game and Hellboy. What are you waiting for?
Battletech welcomes all, even clanners
One of the reasons I stopped playing 40K was the lack of QC for the resin kits and accessories.
Hah... Don't get me started!
Love to see the renewed interest in BattleTech. You can still get a free Warhammer heavy mech if you join MechWarrior Online today! You just need to get 40 kills before the event is over. Not too hard, since it counts both whether you dealt the most damage or just gave the last hit. You can get more prizes if you fulfill other objectives too. There's still about two weeks left!