I DD a BRZ. As someone who is just getting into actually driving sports cars (and not just obsessing over them) I'm personally having a blast. It's a great platform to learn and experiment on. I'll be the first to tell you that the car is slow and that just a touch more power or better power delivery would make it, but I really enjoy driving it as-is. I hope the platform manages to stick around for a second gen, I still think that it's a miracle that a major automaker is building a simple sub-$30K N/A RWD sports car despite the automotive market moving rapidly away from that segment, even Nissan can't justify putting out a new Z car in this market (though kudos to them for wanting to keep it alive). Meanwhile the new Camry gets a 300HP V6.......
I don't know what you were expecting. The engine is already making 100hp/liter for $25k. The new version is a mid generation refresh. The STI has produced the same power for generations.
Seriously though, I do think it needs to put out at LEAST STI numbers, it's supposed to be a sports car, it shouldn't have 105 LESS hp than their top sedan
you are right- but they are selling it as an affordable sporty car- and with more hp it needs more fuel and everything gets more expensive- just enough to destroy its own market- thats why here (where fuel is pricy) I see a lot of BRZs (actually more Gt86s) but I have never seen an WRX STI. For the US market though- it needs at least like 250/300hp for all this straight roads with no turns
subaru do have a turbo version of this exact motor no? the only reason I can think of for not making an "sti" version of this car with a turbo must be some sort of contractual deal with toyota cos those cars would sell no doubt. Maybe a grmn version from toyota with a v6 or supercharged inline 4 would even the playing field, how sick would that be
Even as an 86 owner, I understand the point. The chassis is so good from the factory, leave it alone and fix that torque dip at least please! I'd say even 25+hp/tq would be perfect for the road as a balanced car.
you can do that easily with just tune+bolt ons. probably 1k tops if you are patient and buy used parts. I had full bolt ons and tune, the car felt significantly better, and the dip was gone. I sold it after 2 years, though....miss it. I had the P&L motorsports bolt on kit, 35whp gain
That's what I'm planning to do. Maybe UEL header (for the rumble) and OFT stage 2 on 93 octane. I just wanted to feel the car stock before doing the same mistake I made with my cars before and spending too much. The only things I dont like about the car are Torque dip, road clearance, clutch feel (removed the spring now) and paint quality. Otherwise, it has been incredible so far.
That's smart, I spent at around $2,000k for the bolt ons, but I could've gotten all of the parts for under $1k. Only thing I will say is, the car will be LOUD with all bolt ons. I had a catted EL header, uncatted frontpipe, overpipe, and an invidia q300, which is considered the quietest catback. It wasn't loud under normal driving, but when you got on it, it would be very noticeable for everyone. Cold starts were absolutely brutal as well. I would recommend you get a catted or resonated frontpipe and catted header, while choosing a quiet catback, unless you like loud cars. I honestly wish I would've kept the stock catback to be honest. I'm not exaggerating as well, it will be very loud with any exhaust that isnt the q300 or stock
Thanks for the info! Yeah for the moment I have the TRD catback and I'm pretty sure even that will be too loud. I still have the stock catback at home though. I know you pain haha, I spent a lot of money on my old cobalt SS just switching exhaust and adding resonators because it was too damn loud with the header :p
The tq dip never really bothered me so much, but the fact that the engine falls on its face after the dip is a let down. It feels like the power/tq is backwards where you get decent tq (relative), then hit the dip, then you'd expect some kind of power transition but nothing. The engine and shifter feel are my only gripes with this car.
"It's too slow" while laughing and having fun? I don't want a turbo and more complication, more expense. 29 mpg, perfectly sorted handling, more storage space than an S 2000 ...what is better RWD at this price? I'm not racing anyone, as a daily driver it's close to perfect. Buy a Hellcat if you want to drag race.
God Subaru pissed me off! For years the consumers have been BEGGING for more power and Subaru continues to completely ignore market demands. I don't give a flying fuck about a better handling version, the car already handled great. WE want MORE power!
i think the only reason they won't do it is because the WRX is already their "fast" car, and the BRZ has the potential to just completely outclass it performance wise if it had more power
69mrbrightside691, It will run into heat issues on a hot summer day in traffic. Stock the car is a dog in 90 degree weather. The computer will cut hp back to 155 hp when she gets hot. Look at all the SC and turbo reviews almost all of them overheat. An high flow larger capacity radiator is needed, intercoolers along with an oil cooler. Still when you are really pushing the car it will overheat. Only an E85 tune with reasonable boost will keep the temperatures consistently under control. I am not even going to go into the brakes. For modest street use a SC is fine. With both turbo and SC you lose bottom end performance below 3500 rpm. It is cheaper and more reliable to go N/A
As an 2017 Toyota 86 owner for almost a year now I trend to agree. On a tight track with upgraded tires it can match or beat a lot of cars. Add some longer straights and you're F-ed. I love my 86 but the minute Toyota/Subaru offer one with 50-100 more hp's....I'd trade mine in...in a second! If the Supra is any good and not too expensive, I'll probably go that route, but if not...I'm adding a Rotex or Turbo!!
Build the engine = thousands..... Add a turbo = thousands... So would probably take $10,000 in total to get where it's a fast car that wont blow up. Of course that's awesome but...not sure the ROI (return on investment) is worth it. Of course i am not even 1 year into this car so I am not throwing away the engine/drive train warranty just yet ;-) Maybe at the 1.5 to 2 year mark hahahah
As soon as he said "STI tuned", all I could think was "please say the turbocharged it from the factory". :/ Maybe a significantly lighter flywheel and underdrive pullies would really wake it up?
Reinforcing the belief the car is "too slow" not only hurts the perception of this car but really shows the American market misses the point of this car. This is a car you can enjoy from 1/10th to 10/10ths and have a smile on your face the entire time. A driver learning to drive or even an expert driver can have a blast in this chassis.
That's an easy fix, drive FASTER in the corners. The entire point of a momentum car is to keep the car moving forward. A fast lap in a car like this should look almost manic. It's slow on the straights when you brake bus lengths before the real braking zone too.
I agree, he wouldn't be complaining nearly as much if it were a Miata. Yet the Miata has a much worse power to weight ratio than the BRZ/FR-S. For some reason some car reviewers expect this car to perform like a Turbo MarkIV Supra or TT 300zx, it's not that at all.
Here’s the problem - the tires are too grippy for its own good. Giving it sticky tires kills the fun in a normal setting. Give it boost, the car becomes fun again. It needs to be boosted. Just 250whp and it’d be a game changer.
That guy No. At that power level you need significantly better tires, cooling, axles, and probably rods. The car would be too expensive. A 250whp car is plenty and could still be offered at an attractive price point.
you're right but for what this car is trying to be a N/A engine is truer to its intention, that being said 250hp would the sweet spot and they should have no problem making it N/A,
Not true....The BRZ has better handling balance, less understeer and is more predictable at the limit with sticky tires. The BRZ will still oversteer at the limit. That rear wing is what locks the car down.
The thing is once you get used to it and feel more confinent, you would want more power. That's just human nature. We aim for more until we hit the limit.
As a 2016 BRZ owner, I'm glad to hear that the newer versions don't offer anything new that can't be had with bolt-ons. I'll just keep mine and upgrade it how I want. Thanks again Matt for an awesome and honest review!
Why does it have to be slow? Cause its an 86, not a Supra. It's designed to be a spiritual successor to the AE86. NA, Front Engine, RWD. Why is that so hard to understand?
Underpowered BRZ aside, I'm glad to see that you're still staying in the automotive journalist world and going to R&T. I've always loved their content and look forward to seeing you in there a bit more.
Less powerful NA engine is cheaper to make/maintain burns less gas and makes insurance cheaper. This car accelerates fine unless you just have to drive cars that peel your face back when you gas. It's not "fast" but calling it slow is stupid.
It’s a limited edition, don’t you think giving it a turbo motor from a WRX with a factory warranty would increase demand. Then again this is coming from the company who’s newest performance car has the same power and engine as it did 10 years ago.
I like that combo but it is expensive. For the Camaro to weigh 800 pounds more than the BRZ it has less room for the driver and you cant see out the dam car. That 1LE has $50,000+ worth of performance with an sweet engine and excellent ride handling balalce.
So I was at the Detroit auto show, and was talking to some of the reps about the BRZ TS, and commenting on it's lack of extra power that much of the enthusiast segment has been repetedly asking for. And this jackle tells me that "there is no way Subaru could make a turbocharged BRZ for less than $50,000." This just pissed me off to no end, because it is completely untrue. He went on to make some claim that it was more expensive because it was RWD, so I angrily sighted that the ecotec Camaro, ecoboost Mustang, and (late) turbo Genesis were all RWD turbo 4-cylinder cars of roughly the same quality as the BRZ, yet all under $30k starting. Frankly given this the BRZ starting price is too high. But even with it the way it is, Subaru could easily build a 268hp BRZ with these suspension and tire upgrades for $35k, and probably make more profit than on a base model. I just can't comprehend why Subaru doesn't want to.
Adam S tbh subaru is a massively smaller company and can't stamp out cars in the millions like Ford and gm. They also have to import them from Japan as well. Here is the UK a eco poo mustang is a good £5k more than a Brz. I seriously don't know why they refuse to just stick a wrx engine in it though. Its infuriating. The number of people who come into subaru dealer and test drive it and don't buy it and buy a 500 year old Nissan 370z instead because its just too damn slow. I bet loads of people don't even come to test drive it, just because of the power. I also feel like 99% of the fr slow car fans are all into the mx5 anyway. There is a clear gap in the market for a fr turbo sports car as nobody makes one or imports them into Europe. It really sucks.
I think whatever agreement they made with Toyota prevents them from adding more power they all have to be equal to a degree or one company would sell more then the other
Why would anyone by an 40,000 STi when you can get an turbo BRZ for 35k? Subaru would make almost nothing on an 35k BRZ turbo and they make 10 grand on the STi. It is Subarus most profitable car. The BRZ turbo is a dumb corporate move. An turbo 86 is even worst. Why buy an Lexus I S for 40k when the 86 will smoke it for 35k? The Supra is coming. 300 hp in base form. Let the 26k 86 and BRZ bee.
Lawrence Timme - I'm actually astonished how far down Subaru is in production ranking. In the US they are massively popular and I see them everywhere, and know more people that own Subaru's than any other brand. Andrew/Furkan - while that might be true, it doesn't prevent them from developing/selling the car for both Subaru (STi) and Toyota (TRD). fatboy19831 - the BRZ and WRX *are not competitors* . The BRZ is a lightweight RWD sports car, where the WRX STi is an AWD sedan. Even then, what would it matter if the profit is still going to the same company? The real point is that making a turbo BRZ would bring in new customers that wouldn't have considered a Subaru/Toyota otherwise.
I one got to learn in. On track, it is wonderful. The more turns on the track the more the BRZ/86 shines, our local Redstar Raceway here in SA has 13 corners and I have stuck with an M3 and Focus ST. I suspect if they had my confidence they may have been faster, but the BRZ/86 gives so much confidence and feedback that I feel like I can really hoof it! Low power means you have to learn to carry momentum, heel and toe, trail brake all the good stuff that is easier to learn in a platform that is stable and responsive. I have done about 12 skidpan sessions and it really comes alive in the wet. I lot of reviews only speak to the tyres on the car but it really benefits from 2 sets of rims and tyres. I have RE002s for track, they just grip and grip (Very hard to drift). Then I have some nice El-Cheapos on my stock rims, very little grip (Drifts when parking). The car is totally transformed by tyres. Great car, learn in, sublime to drive. BUT, if you want power and back seats look elsewhere...
You can get a alpha chassis v6/335hp 1LE Camaro for $32k and it can hold its own and match a v8 mustang on track. Even the t2.0 275hp base Camaro for $24k will mop the floor with most equal powered sports cars, thats a hard value to beat and even harder to justify a $33k BRZ
I would only bother with a V8 Camaro. Otherwise the Camaro is too heavy and I'm not attracted to overweight vehicles with the exception of V8 because most V8 cars are inevitably heavy.
The i4 t2.0L Camaro with the back seat out weighs 3,200lbs and for $400 a ZZP tune will make equal power as the v6 but with way more torque, with out all that weight up front it has zero under steer and is way more nimble, the balance is almost 50/50
I can assure you a V6 camaro is no track car regardless of the trim, and furthermore that it will absolutely not touch a V8 mustang on a track unless we're talking about a stock SN95. The coyote mustang is loads more powerful and weighs considerably less than even the V6 camaro.
I've seen a video where they just did headers, exhaust, and a tune. It gained only like 20 hp and tq, BUT it gained tons of low end and mid range power, which is why it feels so slow stock. Could probably get the same effect without thr exhaust
I believe one of the reasons why they haven't increased power comes down to taxes. Almost all european countries have very hefty taxes, connected to engine power in some way or another, when it comes to cars. I mean this car was made to attract the younger crowd and a lot of young people in Europe couldn't afford the additional taxes and general costs that come with a stronger engine.
TheEmbittered ThunderGod I agree, but I also think it would cannibalize the wrx, as I'm sure some people pick that simply over the brz because of power
Yeah, Japan has displacement tax too. Also it will kill the WRX sales, just like what could happen if Porsche decides to offer all Caymans with the same engines used in 911s
I'd be so stupid enough to pay porsche $70K to have the 4.0 litre naturally aspirated flat 6 from the 991.2 GT3 to fit it into the 86/BRZ. Pretty much the best flat 6 ever in a front engine rear wheel drive chassis of a smaller and lighter car for more predictable oversteer control - heaven.
They should put the 3.6l engine from the legacy in with sporty cams and call it a day. I've been saying this forever. Barring that this with a supercharger (preferrably edelbrock) is about the same thing anyway.
+Robotic Venom Carbon bonnet, carbon wide front fenders, moving battery and cooling system to the rear, changing suspension system, 265+ wide front tyres
BRZ is great for new track and hobby drivers. If you give people a lot of power they will most likely crash. Also the tire wear, brake pad wear, and other wears make the BRZ an ideal option.
Yeah, that's kind of the point he was making. It would also be a kick but celebrity race, race car. But for driving around on the street, we need a turbo.
So, this car is $34k? I just picked up a '17 limited for $29k, installed KW's, 17x9 wheels, & SuperSports for practically the same price & now have a better suspension setup than the tS and complete suspension adjustability. Didnt't get the aero & badges of the tS, but who wants that bug ugly wing anyways? Done.
The Corvette has only worked out for 1 of my friends that had one. That lucky guy had the Zo6. 15 other people I know had nothing but problems. If you know how to work on them you are good.
Niklas it’s not that. Toyota wants to. Subaru doesn’t because they offer the Wrx. It’s the same engine. It would not make sense to offer the same type of car with a different body with around the same power train.
I have a 2017 brz performance package which has the same upgrades minus the boy-racer spoiler and the tires at $28k. This car is just a novelty product at its best, being limited to 500 units. I’m happy with mine, maybe it needs more power but as it is I can drive it at 100% anywhere anytime and that makes a car more enjoyable to me. No regrets.
Soarin8 because affordable new convertible. Also these brz/gt86 are around 400 pounds heavier than the mx5 so the access to power and torque is provided at a quicker time.. In this crappy car you need to be driving near redline to get power. On my ND mx5 around 3-4 rpm you get access to the torque and it feels fun with the roof down , while sluts are begging for a ride in it.
As a BRZ owner I 100% agree which is why I picked up the JR supercharger after watching your video and now.... so good I’ve been bugging my dealer to get my hands on the TS... if I can then come drive my Supercharged TS :p
Does anybody really know, why they don't put in a stronger engine? It makes no sense to me. Every test in the entire internet praises the great handling, but they all state that it doesn't have enough power. Why don't they change that? Edit: Please only answer if you have really read a statement of sorts by Subaru and or Toyota, I am not interested in your personal theories!
Peter Griffin the theory is that since it's a shared platform, making this a better car would actually reduce Subaru sales, because it would also be available from Toyota. If they keep it bad, nobody buys it and Subaru loses fewer sales.
The type-R looks like absolute dog shit, is front wheel drive, has a lot of shortcomings and is covered in fake vents. Also, good luck getting one for sticker due to fuckboy tax.
>Dogshit Opinion >FWD Nothing wrong with fwd, if the car is faster the car is faster >Has a lot of shortcomings So does the BRZ cough205hpcough >Covered in fake vents Acting like the rear spoiler does anything but make the car look good. And its not like the BRZ isn't a fucking rice magnet anyway
Solomon Cornish honestly I pretty much agree with you as the type r is a great car and not at all shitty but even if they car is faster with fwd the car still has the interior drivetrain that is less fun and much less performance oriented. Both cars are pretty much magnets with their big wings but if we're honest the Civic is way worse when it comes to rice cause holy shit is that thing overstyled. Both great cars nothing to argue about but by the way 7k more is not just a little bit more money dumbass.
yeah... probably the wrong place to drive the brz and make a blanket statement by calling it 'rice' despite the OTT carbon fibre wing when you haven't taken it to a proper twisty backroad/touge.
Great video Matt and I love these 'momentum' cars, even though there are higher powered cars for similar money in US. *Do you prefer the Mazda MX-5 RF Club edition over this BRZ tS?* They are both pretty similar regarding power-to-weight ratio so it would be interesting to know which car you think is more fun to drive and which has better handling. Clearly with this BRZ tS, the missing jigsaw puzzle piece is a circa 300hp forced induction kit.
Love watching TheTopher's pov video of that red Mazda MX-5 RF. I haven't driven both these cars in real life but based on the POV videos out there, i'm going to say that based on totally unmodified conditions, the MX-5 RF is more fun to drive but the BRZ has better handling - but I could be wrong.
Easy life hack to make a normal BRZ into a tS: order it with the performance package, and get Michelin Pilot Sport 4S's. You'll have an identical car, but with no aero bits or red interior bits, and you'll be a couple thousand bucks richer too.
At this point it's pretty clear that they don't care about what THEIR customers want. Let's give it 50-100hp more to see how good the chassis really is.
Niklas, they know what customers want, and that's why they have WRX, STi, Impreza, Forester, etc. Of their 650k sales, BRZ counted for 4k in 2017. I'm thankful that they are still manufacturing BRZ. Less than 1% of the total sales from a manufacturer who has less than 4% market share. They gotta be crazy to continue making BRZ.
I love my BRZ. Great daily, does well in the snow with proper winter tires (have a 4Runner when it gets really bad). After a year of ownership, I am looking for more power. Thinking about an sti or SS 1LE. I commute 100miles a day and the BRZ 6MT gets 30mpg. Plus I have a blast driving everyday! It really is a car built for fun. Right now I can't justify selling it. Can't wait to put the summer tires back on in a couple months:)
It has a purpose. As in what racing classes will this be in. For exmaple these cars already do great in autocross, what is this trim's class goign to be?
Every 2018 frs i seen on the road with the ugly stripes and ugly wing has been a older guy that will never track the car. no wonder scion went out of buisness. there car's are trash now.
And need i say less the first frs when it came out was only to serve one purpose of why the car was made. to be the new version of the ae86. now they are going way to over board with a 205hp brz.
Was going to school with a guy who had a lowered FRS, We went to some back roads and played around, I drive a 94 Caprice 9c1, I've got 295s in back and 265s in front, other than straights the frs is very nimble. It wasn't a problem though keeping up with the frs in a 4200lb boat.
the reason the back wasnt kicking out cus he was prob using track mode. if you hold the tcs button for 10 seconds all the traction will be turned off and you will deffinetly slide (2017 brz track packege owner)
Is the fantastic chassis only relative to the under powered engine? Would the car suck if it was over powered and you could actually get yourself in trouble? I've never driven one but I like how they look.
Am I the only person in the world who thinks 200HP in a 2700 lbs car is MORE than enough power? I mean. Any faster and you can't have too much fun on backroads. More than 5 seconds on the throttle will land you a big fat ticket.
Daniel Carrión - Sports cars can be fun without being fast. Hell, in a lot of cases, some of the greatest sports cars ever made have way less than the BRZ. Take the 240Z as an example. The 240Z has 160 horsepower. 40 horsepower less than the BRZ and yet they weighed similarly. Yet the 240Z is still considered one of the greatest sports cars of all time. How about the AE86 or all the generations of the MR-2? All considered to be great. First and second generation RX-7's? The Turbo II, the most powerful version of the FC, only barely manages to make 200 horsepower. Still regarded as one if the all time greats. Hell, the first gen RX-7 made do with a measly 101 horsepower from it's 12A. Even those are considered to be a riot to drive and a great sports car. Lotus Elan? S1 Lotus Elise? Lotus/Caterham 7? 240SX? Celica Supra? Mazdaspeed Miata? All made do with far less than the BRZ and yet they're no worse the car for it. The BRZ may be flawed in other areas, but I certainly don't think it's down on power. Maybe it's too refined for it's own good and doesn't provide the driver with a sufficient sense of speed. Maybe the bland-sounding FA-20 isn't that exciting of an engine. When it comes to sports cars; I care more about how they feel and how they make me feel behind the wheel. Power is nice, but I don't care too much for it.
Furkan Turfanda - Does not having as much power, or being as fast, as a modern hot hatchback really matter? Last I checked; nobody was wanting for more power in the Fiesta ST, the Golf GTI, Honda Civic SI, Mini Cooper S or any of the others that just about match the BRZ/GT86. With those, people sing high praises about their driving dynamics. So why does the GT86/BRZ get all the flack that it does? It just seems to me that people are using the excuse of it being a sports car to justify it's supposed lack in power. 200 horses is more than plenty for backroad shenanigans. Hell, it may even be a touch too much for backroad shenanigans. You keep your foot in it for more than 5 seconds and you're instantly liable for the heftiest ticket - if not jail time. IMO 200 is plenty. If you want to go faster; carry more speed through corners and become a better driver for it or buy a different car.
The 240z weight much less than the BRZ in the low 2000lbs and even with the 50 less hp and Carburetored I bet it can beat or at least almost match the BRZ easily. The only Z that comes close to that weight is the 75-78 280z closer to the 2400+ if it was the 2 seater because of the big bumpers and safety. The 280z was also offered in 2+2 which brought the weight just slightly under 3000lbs. The 79-83 280zx was little heavier depending on the year. If you got the 79 which had a 135hp L28 it was down in the low 2400lbs sometimes less. The 82-83 280zx turbo were 180hp non intercooled from factory and could eat the BRZ tS for breakfast with the right driver, tires.
Jose Lopez, I am with you on that. The Camaro has a lot of mass to move around in spite of its excellent handling dynamics. You can feel that mass. I think it is an better handling car overall. My biggest problem with 2018 Camaro is I don't fit and I cant see out of the dam car. Why can I see out of and fit in an 1969 Camaro and not an 2018 one? I can were a hat in my BRZ.
why Americans are still complaining BRZ/86/frs is slow?? if you want a drag car, find a hellcat. BRZ is hugely popular and powerful on a track. Because 1. in the same 2.0 NA/1.4 turbo street car class (some more serious race use super2000 rules) there is not many competition. name a 2L NA that's not a VTEC has 200+HP? not so ez. i'm from China, here Vtec hondas must go a class higher (2L turbo street) in order to compete. 2. BRZ/86 is also a great platform for building open class and high power drift cars. 2jz swaps for example. 3. Racing a BRZ/86 is very cheap, cheaper than racing 125cc TAG gokart for a whole season some say. 4. when you are the under dog on the track and made a skillful overtake on a more powerful car, the satisfaction is thro the roof.
If you didi not have your car would you buy one at 38k? How much was your build all in? How reliable is it? Can you recommend someone that does head work?
The BRZ seems like it’s meant for a spirited drive and is something for the experience. With that being said, if they’re going to take it up a notch with this model, it needs a bit more power. Maybe, say, 250?
Farhan Chowdhury that's the point that I'm making. This car is 33+k and slow as frozen piss. Or id get the miata gt/rf. Subaru just needs to throw a lil blower even 50 more whp charge the same 33-35k and it's a perfect more fun car. I dont get why they're sticking to the na platform
im Schwaggy, You are not the target demographic. Buy an CivicR and be done. There are many like me that don't like turbo cars. The Japanese do not make one liner turbo 4 not one. The WRX has turbo lag and a flat top end. Not a fan of breathless cars above 5000 rpm or tons of lag under 3500 rpm. The GTi has the ONLY good turbo 4 on the market under 30k. Everything else is garbage. I am the target demographic for the BRZ. Would I like a bit more power? yes. A turbo.......hell no. Look at f.cking BMW. That horrible turbo 4 that takes the place of the wonderful n/A 3.0 strait six.
As long as you are willing to give up your factory warranty ( or just buy used) The aftermarket has almost 40 N/A wheel hp waiting for you for under $2000. The best thing about the ts is all you need to add is an upgraded cooling system for oil and water and a Supercharger. You are done. You will also need a clutch in short order.
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"It's still slow " unsubbed and unfollowed --- you're no car driver - just a big troll that needs to "GitGud" ... if you need a 100 more HP ... you fucking cannot drive .... simple as that ffs smh .pushing into the corner going in wrong coming out half assed ... I wouldn't let you drive a stroller fucking idiot ...
it simply is slow, and i get what your're saying and you are right. but the point he is making is that the car has more potential and when compared to the competition it lacks in power. but this car is special and only for a certain demographic
My bad for getting salty --- I've had this car now for a while - it's a high revving little beast, and, WHEN driven properly, is more fun than my 370Z -- As soon as he started out he popped off "1st thing you realize" ... meaning he was looking to dis it right away. Regardless it's a friggin amazing car especially for it's price point. Watch a real, professional driver in a stock version. This turd ^^^^ couldn't drive a nail. "Great learners car" -- he should make it his DD then.
power is plenty for young dudes who drive on city roads 99,9% of the time. makes it a really great car here in germany for quick and fun drives from a to b.
These cars are sold to be modded IMO. I like how they added Brembo brakes to this model, and i like the wrinkle red intake manifold, nice touch. I still prefer the cluster out of the toyota/scion with white backround. I'm from Canada and i seen a yellow BRZ with red brembo brakes. Looked very nice. I also seen a limited edition battleship grey one, with some crazy brown leather interior. I was told by the driver that there was only 100 made of that particular model. I couldnt get over how well the battleship grey looked on the car.
I’m giving a thumbs up to you and how you make your very informative videos. Definitely not a thumbs up to the car. I love Subaru in general, but they are so lacking on catching up as far as updating their power plants. They can do it, I know it. Why aren’t they. You talk to Subaru obviously. Can you PLEASEEEEEE PLEASE PLEASE tell them. Your doing a damn good job in your videos, but if they ask you for a written report as well, stress it as much as possible. Great job to you. Thank you for taking time to make non boring informative vidz. Keep ‘me coming.
Hate to say it, but you're missing the point a little bit. On the road, the ability to drive flat out, WFO without ratcheting up to insane speeds, it's the beauty of this car. I've had an FRS since 2013, my previous car was a 2006 STi which had that extra 100hp, easily. I really loved that Subaru, especially on the track. It was fast. But, it ate tires and brake pads at a ridiculous rate and to really have fun and huck it about on the road was a serious risk to my license. My FRS is infinitely more fun on the road, and since I'm not rich, that's where 95% of my driving is done. Im 51 years old, I've got countless hours on track with both cars and motorcycles, I raced motorcycles for many years, so I'm no "beginner" driver. And I STILL LOVE my FRS!!! I intend to spend another 5 grand or more modifying it and NOT ONE PENNY will go into the motor beyond maint.; it's all going to Brakes and suspension. I just love that I can drive it flat out, all the time, every time I get into it. I don't race anyone, I don't use a stop watch anywhere, and I could care less what the speedo reads. It's all about how it feels to me, and that cheap little car feels brilliant!
The 205 hp is ok... It's complete lack of torque that's kills it.
I DD a BRZ. As someone who is just getting into actually driving sports cars (and not just obsessing over them) I'm personally having a blast. It's a great platform to learn and experiment on. I'll be the first to tell you that the car is slow and that just a touch more power or better power delivery would make it, but I really enjoy driving it as-is. I hope the platform manages to stick around for a second gen, I still think that it's a miracle that a major automaker is building a simple sub-$30K N/A RWD sports car despite the automotive market moving rapidly away from that segment, even Nissan can't justify putting out a new Z car in this market (though kudos to them for wanting to keep it alive).
Meanwhile the new Camry gets a 300HP V6.......
That second gen tho
Thank god he finally uploaded. I’ve had to shit all morning.
Same ❤️❤️
TheHLjuice same and my shit was spicy from jalapenos
What is wrong with all of you?
hahaha +1
Evaldas256 What? you don't like shitting?
200 hp to 205 hp....... great.
Ryan Browning dog that is a 2.5% increase. Lookout.
Haha
Don't forget that they took off 14 pounds and increased the aerodynamics of the car by adding 2 stickers (one on each side).
I don't know what you were expecting. The engine is already making 100hp/liter for $25k. The new version is a mid generation refresh. The STI has produced the same power for generations.
I would expect a turbo. The sti at least has 300 horsepower, not just 200.
The name even sounds like a turbocharged car
BRRRZZZ tsssss
But it's not even turbocharged. :(
It needs 350hp
no, it needs 250 - 280hp
It needs 700WHP and 395 rear tires and 325 front tires, and a giant wing producing 7 million lbs of downforce at 35MPH. Jeez!
Seriously though, I do think it needs to put out at LEAST STI numbers, it's supposed to be a sports car, it shouldn't have 105 LESS hp than their top sedan
I’m gonna say it
*needs more power*
you are right- but they are selling it as an affordable sporty car- and with more hp it needs more fuel and everything gets more expensive- just enough to destroy its own market- thats why here (where fuel is pricy) I see a lot of BRZs (actually more Gt86s) but I have never seen an WRX STI. For the US market though- it needs at least like 250/300hp for all this straight roads with no turns
subaru do have a turbo version of this exact motor no? the only reason I can think of for not making an "sti" version of this car with a turbo must be some sort of contractual deal with toyota cos those cars would sell no doubt. Maybe a grmn version from toyota with a v6 or supercharged inline 4 would even the playing field, how sick would that be
+Tom Higgins the hood looks really packed in the engine bay as is
Tom Higgins needs a boxer engine, lower centre of gravity
yeah didnt think of the packaging issues, people have turboed these so its not impossible, may be really tough to do from factoy though
Even as an 86 owner, I understand the point. The chassis is so good from the factory, leave it alone and fix that torque dip at least please! I'd say even 25+hp/tq would be perfect for the road as a balanced car.
you can do that easily with just tune+bolt ons. probably 1k tops if you are patient and buy used parts. I had full bolt ons and tune, the car felt significantly better, and the dip was gone. I sold it after 2 years, though....miss it. I had the P&L motorsports bolt on kit, 35whp gain
That's what I'm planning to do. Maybe UEL header (for the rumble) and OFT stage 2 on 93 octane. I just wanted to feel the car stock before doing the same mistake I made with my cars before and spending too much.
The only things I dont like about the car are Torque dip, road clearance, clutch feel (removed the spring now) and paint quality. Otherwise, it has been incredible so far.
That's smart, I spent at around $2,000k for the bolt ons, but I could've gotten all of the parts for under $1k.
Only thing I will say is, the car will be LOUD with all bolt ons. I had a catted EL header, uncatted frontpipe, overpipe, and an invidia q300, which is considered the quietest catback. It wasn't loud under normal driving, but when you got on it, it would be very noticeable for everyone. Cold starts were absolutely brutal as well. I would recommend you get a catted or resonated frontpipe and catted header, while choosing a quiet catback, unless you like loud cars. I honestly wish I would've kept the stock catback to be honest. I'm not exaggerating as well, it will be very loud with any exhaust that isnt the q300 or stock
Thanks for the info! Yeah for the moment I have the TRD catback and I'm pretty sure even that will be too loud. I still have the stock catback at home though.
I know you pain haha, I spent a lot of money on my old cobalt SS just switching exhaust and adding resonators because it was too damn loud with the header :p
The tq dip never really bothered me so much, but the fact that the engine falls on its face after the dip is a let down. It feels like the power/tq is backwards where you get decent tq (relative), then hit the dip, then you'd expect some kind of power transition but nothing. The engine and shifter feel are my only gripes with this car.
"It's too slow" while laughing and having fun? I don't want a turbo and more complication, more expense. 29 mpg, perfectly sorted handling, more storage space than an S 2000 ...what is better RWD at this price? I'm not racing anyone, as a daily driver it's close to perfect. Buy a Hellcat if you want to drag race.
God Subaru pissed me off! For years the consumers have been BEGGING for more power and Subaru continues to completely ignore market demands. I don't give a flying fuck about a better handling version, the car already handled great. WE want MORE power!
i think the only reason they won't do it is because the WRX is already their "fast" car, and the BRZ has the potential to just completely outclass it performance wise if it had more power
Would cut into WRX sales. Just buy the edelbrock supercharger kit. It's easy to install, works well, and you'll have over 300whp.
The WRX because of the chassis doesn't have the potential that the BRZ has.
Oil cooler and a vented bonnet if you're really worries about heat.
69mrbrightside691, It will run into heat issues on a hot summer day in traffic. Stock the car is a dog in 90 degree weather. The computer will cut hp back to 155 hp when she gets hot. Look at all the SC and turbo reviews almost all of them overheat.
An high flow larger capacity radiator is needed, intercoolers along with an oil cooler. Still when you are really pushing the car it will overheat. Only an E85 tune with reasonable boost will keep the temperatures consistently under control.
I am not even going to go into the brakes.
For modest street use a SC is fine.
With both turbo and SC you lose bottom end performance below 3500 rpm.
It is cheaper and more reliable to go N/A
Traded my 13’ FRS for one. The difference is very noticeable. Subaru has truly perfected the chassis.
As an 2017 Toyota 86 owner for almost a year now I trend to agree. On a tight track with upgraded tires it can match or beat a lot of cars. Add some longer straights and you're F-ed. I love my 86 but the minute Toyota/Subaru offer one with 50-100 more hp's....I'd trade mine in...in a second! If the Supra is any good and not too expensive, I'll probably go that route, but if not...I'm adding a Rotex or Turbo!!
Yeah that'll work too.
Eric Timmer its a fantastic car with a meh engine. Still love the car but just wish for torque
Eric Timmer build the engine and add a turbo or mechanical tune the engine.
Build the engine = thousands..... Add a turbo = thousands... So would probably take $10,000 in total to get where it's a fast car that wont blow up. Of course that's awesome but...not sure the ROI (return on investment) is worth it. Of course i am not even 1 year into this car so I am not throwing away the engine/drive train warranty just yet ;-) Maybe at the 1.5 to 2 year mark hahahah
Eric Timmer hit it on the head
As soon as he said "STI tuned", all I could think was "please say the turbocharged it from the factory".
:/
Maybe a significantly lighter flywheel and underdrive pullies would really wake it up?
wah wah...
Hey, if you like it slow, more power to you!
Just one man's opinion ( ...as well as the guy who's actually reviewing it).
Just means they made it understeer as much as WRX's
Yeah maybe +1.7 hp
You don't add a light flywheel to necessarily make more power on a dyno. You do it to free up rotational mass and let the engine rev more quickly.
I'm really sad to see the one takes end. I understand why, but I'm going to need a new morning ritual.
Is one take ending?
The Up All Nate Show unfortunately, he mentioned it last video, and a few times on reddit.
Wait, there's a subreddit for one takes?
That sucks :/
Pornhub
Reinforcing the belief the car is "too slow" not only hurts the perception of this car but really shows the American market misses the point of this car. This is a car you can enjoy from 1/10th to 10/10ths and have a smile on your face the entire time. A driver learning to drive or even an expert driver can have a blast in this chassis.
The Driver's Perspective I think the issue is that the slowness stands out in the straights between the turns.
That's an easy fix, drive FASTER in the corners. The entire point of a momentum car is to keep the car moving forward. A fast lap in a car like this should look almost manic. It's slow on the straights when you brake bus lengths before the real braking zone too.
The car is too slow. The American market isn't the only market that thinks it's too slow either.
Nah man. This car is slow *in the straights* even with high cornering speeds I caught and passed the frs in every sesion of my hpde.
I agree, he wouldn't be complaining nearly as much if it were a Miata. Yet the Miata has a much worse power to weight ratio than the BRZ/FR-S. For some reason some car reviewers expect this car to perform like a Turbo MarkIV Supra or TT 300zx, it's not that at all.
Here’s the problem - the tires are too grippy for its own good. Giving it sticky tires kills the fun in a normal setting. Give it boost, the car becomes fun again. It needs to be boosted. Just 250whp and it’d be a game changer.
BTroxTV more like 300
That guy No. At that power level you need significantly better tires, cooling, axles, and probably rods. The car would be too expensive. A 250whp car is plenty and could still be offered at an attractive price point.
cayman S starts at $67,700.... if you're fucking off to the Porsche dealership you weren't looking at a BRZ in the first place.
you're right but for what this car is trying to be a N/A engine is truer to its intention, that being said 250hp would the sweet spot and they should have no problem making it N/A,
Not true....The BRZ has better handling balance, less understeer and is more predictable at the limit with sticky tires. The BRZ will still oversteer at the limit. That rear wing is what locks the car down.
Two door, rear wheel drive, balanced drive-ability, decent price...what's not to like? Needs more power!
The thing is once you get used to it and feel more confinent, you would want more power. That's just human nature. We aim for more until we hit the limit.
I love that they're still sticking with that 1990's cruise stalk.
As a 2016 BRZ owner, I'm glad to hear that the newer versions don't offer anything new that can't be had with bolt-ons. I'll just keep mine and upgrade it how I want. Thanks again Matt for an awesome and honest review!
Why does it have to be slow? Cause its an 86, not a Supra. It's designed to be a spiritual successor to the AE86. NA, Front Engine, RWD. Why is that so hard to understand?
If you think it's slow, the street you're on is too straight.
I'm really hoping Toyota nails it with the new Supra, and by Toyota I mean BMW.
Because a 25 year old stock 240sx is faster in a straight line. That’s a problem in 2018...
No it's not, I've owned both. The S13 was a second slower in the quarter.
Braden McHenry 0-60 ons 240 is like 8 seconds, 0-60 in a brz/86 6 seconds
They improved all the things nobody complained about and ignored the biggest complaint which is low power. Good job, Subaru!
So tS = terribly Slow?
= Tacky Spoiler
TOO SLOW
Love the induction noise from inside the car. I'm all for power but I do also love the sounds that a high strung N/A car emits.
Tuned by PS4S.
Underpowered BRZ aside, I'm glad to see that you're still staying in the automotive journalist world and going to R&T. I've always loved their content and look forward to seeing you in there a bit more.
Less powerful NA engine is cheaper to make/maintain burns less gas and makes insurance cheaper. This car accelerates fine unless you just have to drive cars that peel your face back when you gas. It's not "fast" but calling it slow is stupid.
Sam O it’s by far the slowest car you can buy that comes with a carbon fiber wing. How’s that?
It's hard to please everyone and their 700hp cars in here, in reality they all probably drive automatic Hyundai Elantras.
Chiefs Of Staff a new Hyundai Elantra would beat it in a quarter mile
I've heard wayyy too much tales of burning oil and head gaskets to associate Subaru engines with reliability...
It’s a limited edition, don’t you think giving it a turbo motor from a WRX with a factory warranty would increase demand. Then again this is coming from the company who’s newest performance car has the same power and engine as it did 10 years ago.
It has been so long since I have driven a car quickly. That looks like incredible fun.
You could have a V6 Camaro with the 1LE Performance Pack for the same price as this. I wonder which one Matt would choose?
I like that combo but it is expensive. For the Camaro to weigh 800 pounds more than the BRZ it has less room for the driver and you cant see out the dam car. That 1LE has $50,000+ worth of performance with an sweet engine and excellent ride handling balalce.
Ew
Really gonna miss these One Takes 👍🏻
So I was at the Detroit auto show, and was talking to some of the reps about the BRZ TS, and commenting on it's lack of extra power that much of the enthusiast segment has been repetedly asking for.
And this jackle tells me that "there is no way Subaru could make a turbocharged BRZ for less than $50,000." This just pissed me off to no end, because it is completely untrue.
He went on to make some claim that it was more expensive because it was RWD, so I angrily sighted that the ecotec Camaro, ecoboost Mustang, and (late) turbo Genesis were all RWD turbo 4-cylinder cars of roughly the same quality as the BRZ, yet all under $30k starting. Frankly given this the BRZ starting price is too high. But even with it the way it is, Subaru could easily build a 268hp BRZ with these suspension and tire upgrades for $35k, and probably make more profit than on a base model. I just can't comprehend why Subaru doesn't want to.
Adam S tbh subaru is a massively smaller company and can't stamp out cars in the millions like Ford and gm. They also have to import them from Japan as well. Here is the UK a eco poo mustang is a good £5k more than a Brz.
I seriously don't know why they refuse to just stick a wrx engine in it though. Its infuriating. The number of people who come into subaru dealer and test drive it and don't buy it and buy a 500 year old Nissan 370z instead because its just too damn slow. I bet loads of people don't even come to test drive it, just because of the power. I also feel like 99% of the fr slow car fans are all into the mx5 anyway. There is a clear gap in the market for a fr turbo sports car as nobody makes one or imports them into Europe. It really sucks.
I think whatever agreement they made with Toyota prevents them from adding more power they all have to be equal to a degree or one company would sell more then the other
I think they could very easily and cheaply drop a WRX engine in this car, but they might have some sort of deal with Toyota holding them back.
Why would anyone by an 40,000 STi when you can get an turbo BRZ for 35k? Subaru would make almost nothing on an 35k BRZ turbo and they make 10 grand on the STi. It is Subarus most profitable car. The BRZ turbo is a dumb corporate move. An turbo 86 is even worst. Why buy an Lexus I S for 40k when the 86 will smoke it for 35k?
The Supra is coming. 300 hp in base form. Let the 26k 86 and BRZ bee.
Lawrence Timme - I'm actually astonished how far down Subaru is in production ranking. In the US they are massively popular and I see them everywhere, and know more people that own Subaru's than any other brand.
Andrew/Furkan - while that might be true, it doesn't prevent them from developing/selling the car for both Subaru (STi) and Toyota (TRD).
fatboy19831 - the BRZ and WRX *are not competitors* . The BRZ is a lightweight RWD sports car, where the WRX STi is an AWD sedan. Even then, what would it matter if the profit is still going to the same company? The real point is that making a turbo BRZ would bring in new customers that wouldn't have considered a Subaru/Toyota otherwise.
Matt good for you for telling it how it is. That's why I'm a fan. Cause you don't sugar coat it. 👍🏼
STI should be fined for touching this car and still not adding a turbo 😂
I one got to learn in. On track, it is wonderful. The more turns on the track the more the BRZ/86 shines, our local Redstar Raceway here in SA has 13 corners and I have stuck with an M3 and Focus ST. I suspect if they had my confidence they may have been faster, but the BRZ/86 gives so much confidence and feedback that I feel like I can really hoof it! Low power means you have to learn to carry momentum, heel and toe, trail brake all the good stuff that is easier to learn in a platform that is stable and responsive. I have done about 12 skidpan sessions and it really comes alive in the wet.
I lot of reviews only speak to the tyres on the car but it really benefits from 2 sets of rims and tyres. I have RE002s for track, they just grip and grip (Very hard to drift). Then I have some nice El-Cheapos on my stock rims, very little grip (Drifts when parking). The car is totally transformed by tyres.
Great car, learn in, sublime to drive. BUT, if you want power and back seats look elsewhere...
You can get a alpha chassis v6/335hp 1LE Camaro for $32k and it can hold its own and match a v8 mustang on track. Even the t2.0 275hp base Camaro for $24k will mop the floor with most equal powered sports cars, thats a hard value to beat and even harder to justify a $33k BRZ
I would only bother with a V8 Camaro. Otherwise the Camaro is too heavy and I'm not attracted to overweight vehicles with the exception of V8 because most V8 cars are inevitably heavy.
It's not about straight line. THat's boring as fuck.
The i4 t2.0L Camaro with the back seat out weighs 3,200lbs and for $400 a ZZP tune will make equal power as the v6 but with way more torque, with out all that weight up front it has zero under steer and is way more nimble, the balance is almost 50/50
justice have you seen the 1LE Camaro's track times? it has amazing balance and turn in.
I can assure you a V6 camaro is no track car regardless of the trim, and furthermore that it will absolutely not touch a V8 mustang on a track unless we're talking about a stock SN95. The coyote mustang is loads more powerful and weighs considerably less than even the V6 camaro.
I've seen a video where they just did headers, exhaust, and a tune. It gained only like 20 hp and tq, BUT it gained tons of low end and mid range power, which is why it feels so slow stock. Could probably get the same effect without thr exhaust
moderately lightened flywheel and underdrive pullies *might* really wake it up on top of the i/h/e and tune.
I believe one of the reasons why they haven't increased power comes down to taxes.
Almost all european countries have very hefty taxes, connected to engine power in some way or another, when it comes to cars.
I mean this car was made to attract the younger crowd and a lot of young people in Europe couldn't afford the additional taxes and general costs that come with a stronger engine.
TheEmbittered ThunderGod I agree, but I also think it would cannibalize the wrx, as I'm sure some people pick that simply over the brz because of power
Yeah, Japan has displacement tax too. Also it will kill the WRX sales, just like what could happen if Porsche decides to offer all Caymans with the same engines used in 911s
Well thats dumb, if your going to do it, the tax should be based on mpg's not power output.
+Jeff K Definitely have to blame the government for this.
The upside is there is aftermarket availability and the FA’s are proven to be respond very well to boost especially compared to the old EJ engines
this car with a flat 6 would be the greatest thing ever
I'd be so stupid enough to pay porsche $70K to have the 4.0 litre naturally aspirated flat 6 from the 991.2 GT3 to fit it into the 86/BRZ. Pretty much the best flat 6 ever in a front engine rear wheel drive chassis of a smaller and lighter car for more predictable oversteer control - heaven.
They should put the 3.6l engine from the legacy in with sporty cams and call it a day. I've been saying this forever. Barring that this with a supercharger (preferrably edelbrock) is about the same thing anyway.
Definitely wouldn't be the greatest thing as it would drive like shit sure to weight distribution
+Robotic Venom Carbon bonnet, carbon wide front fenders, moving battery and cooling system to the rear, changing suspension system, 265+ wide front tyres
smilepermile, 50k and it would still be a 3100 pound 265 hp car than would get smoked buy an turbo 4 Mustang.
BRZ is great for new track and hobby drivers. If you give people a lot of power they will most likely crash. Also the tire wear, brake pad wear, and other wears make the BRZ an ideal option.
Yeah, that's kind of the point he was making. It would also be a kick but celebrity race, race car. But for driving around on the street, we need a turbo.
So, this car is $34k? I just picked up a '17 limited for $29k, installed KW's, 17x9 wheels, & SuperSports for practically the same price & now have a better suspension setup than the tS and complete suspension adjustability. Didnt't get the aero & badges of the tS, but who wants that bug ugly wing anyways? Done.
TheVaughnShow don’t forget the pink pinstripes add 10hp each
Just need more chassis bracing and you're good
I just bought a C6Z for 36k....
The Corvette has only worked out for 1 of my friends that had one. That lucky guy had the Zo6. 15 other people I know had nothing but problems. If you know how to work on them you are good.
Those cars are a bargain! Except the engine dropping valves.
I know as soon as I buy one of these they will come out with the AWD + turbo model. Bastards.
we want more power
El Sito get a sti, corporate says
If Toybaru would put a factory turbo in it I would buy one tomorrow. It would probably rival a Porsche Cayman for half the price.
They don't listen their customers. It's a Japanese car manufacturer after all.
Niklas it’s not that. Toyota wants to. Subaru doesn’t because they offer the Wrx. It’s the same engine. It would not make sense to offer the same type of car with a different body with around the same power train.
I have a 2017 brz performance package which has the same upgrades minus the boy-racer spoiler and the tires at $28k. This car is just a novelty product at its best, being limited to 500 units. I’m happy with mine, maybe it needs more power but as it is I can drive it at 100% anywhere anytime and that makes a car more enjoyable to me. No regrets.
Anyone know why mx5's never get shit for being slow but the brz's always get shit for being slow? Never quiet understood it.
Soarin8 because affordable new convertible. Also these brz/gt86 are around 400 pounds heavier than the mx5 so the access to power and torque is provided at a quicker time.. In this crappy car you need to be driving near redline to get power. On my ND mx5 around 3-4 rpm you get access to the torque and it feels fun with the roof down , while sluts are begging for a ride in it.
@@93mlo No sluts are begging for a ride in your MX5.
Mx5's are hopeless so why waste the time saying something redundant like pointing out that their slow
As a BRZ owner I 100% agree which is why I picked up the JR supercharger after watching your video and now.... so good I’ve been bugging my dealer to get my hands on the TS... if I can then come drive my Supercharged TS :p
I thought the TS stood for Terribly Slow.
is it bad that 200hp at 2800 lbs sounds pretty decent to me??? Too used to 90s cars i guess
Does anybody really know, why they don't put in a stronger engine?
It makes no sense to me. Every test in the entire internet praises the great handling, but they all state that it doesn't have enough power. Why don't they change that?
Edit: Please only answer if you have really read a statement of sorts by Subaru and or Toyota, I am not interested in your personal theories!
Peter Griffin the theory is that since it's a shared platform, making this a better car would actually reduce Subaru sales, because it would also be available from Toyota. If they keep it bad, nobody buys it and Subaru loses fewer sales.
Mitchell Steindler Well then why don't they both put in a stronger engine.?
If they put a stronger engine people won’t buy the wrx or wrx sti because of the 86 made more power I️t would be way better than the wrx
That's your theory and also nonsense.
Because Subaru is so in love with that piece of shit boxer engine
excellent video, the engine sound is great, the tire squealing
...but for just a Lil more than 33k I can get a TypeR with power and handling
The type-R looks like absolute dog shit, is front wheel drive, has a lot of shortcomings and is covered in fake vents. Also, good luck getting one for sticker due to fuckboy tax.
>Dogshit
Opinion
>FWD
Nothing wrong with fwd, if the car is faster the car is faster
>Has a lot of shortcomings
So does the BRZ cough205hpcough
>Covered in fake vents
Acting like the rear spoiler does anything but make the car look good. And its not like the BRZ isn't a fucking rice magnet anyway
Skylar Garrett I know plenty of people who have bought type r’s for 34k from the dealer
+Solomon Cornish front wheels not as fun to slide around with though :(
Solomon Cornish honestly I pretty much agree with you as the type r is a great car and not at all shitty but even if they car is faster with fwd the car still has the interior drivetrain that is less fun and much less performance oriented. Both cars are pretty much magnets with their big wings but if we're honest the Civic is way worse when it comes to rice cause holy shit is that thing overstyled. Both great cars nothing to argue about but by the way 7k more is not just a little bit more money dumbass.
My 1988 porsche 911 only has 215hp, but has to be the most fun i have ever had in a car! It’s not always about how fast your 0-60 is.
Wing bigger than the one on 911 GT3 and only 200 HP. Rice
lol nice comment. Have you driven a BRZ on narrow twisty roads?
smilepermile im just pointing out the stupidity of the wing. And yeah I have driven it briefly.
Just curious but where abouts? Airport runway? Route 66 death valley? TX2K? Daytona Speedway Nascar course?
smilepermile the streets of a big city
yeah... probably the wrong place to drive the brz and make a blanket statement by calling it 'rice' despite the OTT carbon fibre wing when you haven't taken it to a proper twisty backroad/touge.
Great video Matt and I love these 'momentum' cars, even though there are higher powered cars for similar money in US. *Do you prefer the Mazda MX-5 RF Club edition over this BRZ tS?* They are both pretty similar regarding power-to-weight ratio so it would be interesting to know which car you think is more fun to drive and which has better handling.
Clearly with this BRZ tS, the missing jigsaw puzzle piece is a circa 300hp forced induction kit.
Love watching TheTopher's pov video of that red Mazda MX-5 RF. I haven't driven both these cars in real life but based on the POV videos out there, i'm going to say that based on totally unmodified conditions, the MX-5 RF is more fun to drive but the BRZ has better handling - but I could be wrong.
Still slow
yup yup
It's the BRZ Ts= Too slow
People: The car is underpowered!
Subaru: Okay! **Adds 5 hp**
People: DAFUQ
Easy life hack to make a normal BRZ into a tS: order it with the performance package, and get Michelin Pilot Sport 4S's. You'll have an identical car, but with no aero bits or red interior bits, and you'll be a couple thousand bucks richer too.
Its not about numbers , its the experience.
At this point it's pretty clear that they don't care about what THEIR customers want. Let's give it 50-100hp more to see how good the chassis really is.
Niklas, they know what customers want, and that's why they have WRX, STi, Impreza, Forester, etc. Of their 650k sales, BRZ counted for 4k in 2017. I'm thankful that they are still manufacturing BRZ. Less than 1% of the total sales from a manufacturer who has less than 4% market share. They gotta be crazy to continue making BRZ.
I wonder if there is a reason why they don't sell BRZs more.. oh wait
it doesn't need more power. its a legacy car
with a turbo it would cost 45k then you would whinge
I love my BRZ. Great daily, does well in the snow with proper winter tires (have a 4Runner when it gets really bad). After a year of ownership, I am looking for more power. Thinking about an sti or SS 1LE. I commute 100miles a day and the BRZ 6MT gets 30mpg. Plus I have a blast driving everyday! It really is a car built for fun. Right now I can't justify selling it. Can't wait to put the summer tires back on in a couple months:)
This version is so pointless... You can do the same for much cheaper, better and more focused.
Oh yeah, understeeeeeeeeeeeer.
William Levesque And oh yeah a ugly pointless wing if it doesn’t make power
It has a purpose. As in what racing classes will this be in. For exmaple these cars already do great in autocross, what is this trim's class goign to be?
Every 2018 frs i seen on the road with the ugly stripes and ugly wing has been a older guy that will never track the car. no wonder scion went out of buisness. there car's are trash now.
It's still a 205 hp motor... a e46 m3 is still quicker then this rice box
And need i say less the first frs when it came out was only to serve one purpose of why the car was made. to be the new version of the ae86. now they are going way to over board with a 205hp brz.
Was going to school with a guy who had a lowered FRS, We went to some back roads and played around, I drive a 94 Caprice 9c1, I've got 295s in back and 265s in front, other than straights the frs is very nimble. It wasn't a problem though keeping up with the frs in a 4200lb boat.
Add turbo please Subaru!
Nice video Matt thanks for the review. I love this course.. wish you could do more.
Wait where is the new watch podcast?
MBisFrenchy ua-cam.com/channels/kWjQdK8RBD1rpJT3Pmajvw.html
TheSmokingTire Thank you!
He pulled a link from IG this morning, I was looking for.
the reason the back wasnt kicking out cus he was prob using track mode. if you hold the tcs button for 10 seconds all the traction will be turned off and you will deffinetly slide (2017 brz track packege owner)
The BRZ/FRS party trick of oversteer was because it had the skinny no grip tires from the prius, so adding the michellin 4s tires takes that away.
The rear downforce also keeps the back end planted. The seating position, excellent steering and gearbox are also fantastic at the party.
True, perhaps thats why Matt wanted more power because the grippier tyres had took the fun away from the base models
As the owner of a BRZ with 245 wide pilot supersports on all 4 corners, I can assure you, the back still likes to dance.
Is the fantastic chassis only relative to the under powered engine? Would the car suck if it was over powered and you could actually get yourself in trouble? I've never driven one but I like how they look.
Richard Swagger I have videos with these cars at 200, 250, 300, and 450 HP levels
This is not sold in japan, :(
この車、日本じゃ売ってくれないのか…(´Д｀)
UA-cam, for whatever reason, decided to load this video up the moment I opened the app, apparently UA-cam likes you, Matt
Am I the only person in the world who thinks 200HP in a 2700 lbs car is MORE than enough power?
I mean. Any faster and you can't have too much fun on backroads. More than 5 seconds on the throttle will land you a big fat ticket.
Dr. Weird so... You want a sports car that isn't fast? Why do you want it to be sporty? Lol!
Daniel Carrión - Sports cars can be fun without being fast. Hell, in a lot of cases, some of the greatest sports cars ever made have way less than the BRZ.
Take the 240Z as an example. The 240Z has 160 horsepower. 40 horsepower less than the BRZ and yet they weighed similarly. Yet the 240Z is still considered one of the greatest sports cars of all time.
How about the AE86 or all the generations of the MR-2? All considered to be great.
First and second generation RX-7's? The Turbo II, the most powerful version of the FC, only barely manages to make 200 horsepower. Still regarded as one if the all time greats.
Hell, the first gen RX-7 made do with a measly 101 horsepower from it's 12A. Even those are considered to be a riot to drive and a great sports car.
Lotus Elan? S1 Lotus Elise? Lotus/Caterham 7? 240SX? Celica Supra? Mazdaspeed Miata?
All made do with far less than the BRZ and yet they're no worse the car for it.
The BRZ may be flawed in other areas, but I certainly don't think it's down on power. Maybe it's too refined for it's own good and doesn't provide the driver with a sufficient sense of speed. Maybe the bland-sounding FA-20 isn't that exciting of an engine.
When it comes to sports cars; I care more about how they feel and how they make me feel behind the wheel. Power is nice, but I don't care too much for it.
More than enough? Hell no. It's slower than pretty much every hot hatch on the market, and some of them handle nearly as well.
Furkan Turfanda - Does not having as much power, or being as fast, as a modern hot hatchback really matter?
Last I checked; nobody was wanting for more power in the Fiesta ST, the Golf GTI, Honda Civic SI, Mini Cooper S or any of the others that just about match the BRZ/GT86.
With those, people sing high praises about their driving dynamics.
So why does the GT86/BRZ get all the flack that it does?
It just seems to me that people are using the excuse of it being a sports car to justify it's supposed lack in power.
200 horses is more than plenty for backroad shenanigans. Hell, it may even be a touch too much for backroad shenanigans.
You keep your foot in it for more than 5 seconds and you're instantly liable for the heftiest ticket - if not jail time.
IMO 200 is plenty. If you want to go faster; carry more speed through corners and become a better driver for it or buy a different car.
The 240z weight much less than the BRZ in the low 2000lbs and even with the 50 less hp and Carburetored I bet it can beat or at least almost match the BRZ easily. The only Z that comes close to that weight is the 75-78 280z closer to the 2400+ if it was the 2 seater because of the big bumpers and safety. The 280z was also offered in 2+2 which brought the weight just slightly under 3000lbs. The 79-83 280zx was little heavier depending on the year. If you got the 79 which had a 135hp L28 it was down in the low 2400lbs sometimes less. The 82-83 280zx turbo were 180hp non intercooled from factory and could eat the BRZ tS for breakfast with the right driver, tires.
the 2.4l kit from monster sport and complete exhaust with headers, makes it close to 300hp in na. it would be interesting in the ts
Then they wonder why they arent selling.....give us more power fuuh
They are selling.
Justice no
Add an aggressive front lip to match the wing and i bet the rear end will start kicking out
Best chassis under $70K? Did you forget the 1LE? lol
Jose Lopez thinking the same thing lol. Porsche Cayman? Gt350r?
Jose Lopez They're heavy chassis and don't weigh 2750lbs...
Jose Lopez, I am with you on that. The Camaro has a lot of mass to move around in spite of its excellent handling dynamics. You can feel that mass. I think it is an better handling car overall.
My biggest problem with 2018 Camaro is I don't fit and I cant see out of the dam car. Why can I see out of and fit in an 1969 Camaro and not an 2018 one? I can were a hat in my BRZ.
iHeart GT86 {KatyCat}
Heavy =/= bad
There's a reason the Vipers, Corvettes, Porsches of the world are setting lap records, not the Lotuses.
If there are 2 excellent chassis on the market my money is on the chassis that weighs 8-900 lbs less being more fun and not necessarily faster.
why Americans are still complaining BRZ/86/frs is slow?? if you want a drag car, find a hellcat. BRZ is hugely popular and powerful on a track. Because 1. in the same 2.0 NA/1.4 turbo street car class (some more serious race use super2000 rules) there is not many competition. name a 2L NA that's not a VTEC has 200+HP? not so ez. i'm from China, here Vtec hondas must go a class higher (2L turbo street) in order to compete. 2. BRZ/86 is also a great platform for building open class and high power drift cars. 2jz swaps for example. 3. Racing a BRZ/86 is very cheap, cheaper than racing 125cc TAG gokart for a whole season some say. 4. when you are the under dog on the track and made a skillful overtake on a more powerful car, the satisfaction is thro the roof.
How many of you out there would pay $38,000 for an factory 265 hp BRZ?
fatboy19831 If they could make it the same price as the STi and call it the BRZ STi, I think it would actually sell pretty well.
BTroxTV Would you buy one?
fatboy19831 I already have a boosted BRZ with build motor.
If you didi not have your car would you buy one at 38k?
How much was your build all in? How reliable is it?
Can you recommend someone that does head work?
I would've...I waited years for the brz sti
ECU tune and/or a supercharger (preferable if your steering position is on the right as with JDM 86 like mine) will fix your HP and torque complaints.
Needs an LS swap...
The BRZ seems like it’s meant for a spirited drive and is something for the experience. With that being said, if they’re going to take it up a notch with this model, it needs a bit more power. Maybe, say, 250?
yeah, ill take a kia stinger please. it would probably walk this thing on a track too lol.
it should at the price you will pay for it
Justin Irace they're also 33k-39k just like these
Kia Stinger is an entirely different market bro. People who are looking for gokart handling arnt going to buy a 3800 lb sedan.
Farhan Chowdhury that's the point that I'm making. This car is 33+k and slow as frozen piss. Or id get the miata gt/rf. Subaru just needs to throw a lil blower even 50 more whp charge the same 33-35k and it's a perfect more fun car. I dont get why they're sticking to the na platform
im Schwaggy, You are not the target demographic. Buy an CivicR and be done. There are many like me that don't like turbo cars. The Japanese do not make one liner turbo 4 not one. The WRX has turbo lag and a flat top end. Not a fan of breathless cars above 5000 rpm or tons of lag under 3500 rpm.
The GTi has the ONLY good turbo 4 on the market under 30k. Everything else is garbage.
I am the target demographic for the BRZ. Would I like a bit more power? yes. A turbo.......hell no. Look at f.cking BMW. That horrible turbo 4 that takes the place of the wonderful n/A 3.0 strait six.
As long as you are willing to give up your factory warranty ( or just buy used) The aftermarket has almost 40 N/A wheel hp waiting for you for under $2000.
The best thing about the ts is all you need to add is an upgraded cooling system for oil and water and a Supercharger. You are done. You will also need a clutch in short order.
"It's still slow " unsubbed and unfollowed --- you're no car driver - just a big troll that needs to "GitGud" ... if you need a 100 more HP ... you fucking cannot drive .... simple as that ffs smh .pushing into the corner going in wrong coming out half assed ... I wouldn't let you drive a stroller fucking idiot ...
it simply is slow, and i get what your're saying and you are right. but the point he is making is that the car has more potential and when compared to the competition it lacks in power. but this car is special and only for a certain demographic
yea, he does get snobby sometimes
My bad for getting salty --- I've had this car now for a while - it's a high revving little beast, and, WHEN driven properly, is more fun than my 370Z -- As soon as he started out he popped off "1st thing you realize" ... meaning he was looking to dis it right away. Regardless it's a friggin amazing car especially for it's price point. Watch a real, professional driver in a stock version. This turd ^^^^ couldn't drive a nail.
"Great learners car" -- he should make it his DD then.
Dude, I'm on my second BRZ and he's not wrong, our cars are slow. Doesn't mean I don't love it, but it's slow.
ive always said this car needs about 100 to be a great car!
power is plenty for young dudes who drive on city roads 99,9% of the time. makes it a really great car here in germany for quick and fun drives from a to b.
Will you continue to make videos for road and track hopefully?
Matt, in your opinion, is it better performing than the ND Miata?!
These cars are sold to be modded IMO. I like how they added Brembo brakes to this model, and i like the wrinkle red intake manifold, nice touch. I still prefer the cluster out of the toyota/scion with white backround. I'm from Canada and i seen a yellow BRZ with red brembo brakes. Looked very nice. I also seen a limited edition battleship grey one, with some crazy brown leather interior. I was told by the driver that there was only 100 made of that particular model. I couldnt get over how well the battleship grey looked on the car.
Does the lack of power take too much away from the whole driving experience, or is it just a little slow but lovable?
Matt, did you forget to Pedal Dance all the hidden TC/SC systems away?
Honestly a ported intake, exhaust, injectors and a tune I think it would be great
Would pads and fluid be enough to compliment a supercharger?
I’m giving a thumbs up to you and how you make your very informative videos. Definitely not a thumbs up to the car. I love Subaru in general, but they are so lacking on catching up as far as updating their power plants. They can do it, I know it. Why aren’t they. You talk to Subaru obviously. Can you PLEASEEEEEE PLEASE PLEASE tell them. Your doing a damn good job in your videos, but if they ask you for a written report as well, stress it as much as possible. Great job to you. Thank you for taking time to make non boring informative vidz. Keep ‘me coming.
Hate to say it, but you're missing the point a little bit. On the road, the ability to drive flat out, WFO without ratcheting up to insane speeds, it's the beauty of this car. I've had an FRS since 2013, my previous car was a 2006 STi which had that extra 100hp, easily. I really loved that Subaru, especially on the track. It was fast. But, it ate tires and brake pads at a ridiculous rate and to really have fun and huck it about on the road was a serious risk to my license. My FRS is infinitely more fun on the road, and since I'm not rich, that's where 95% of my driving is done. Im 51 years old, I've got countless hours on track with both cars and motorcycles, I raced motorcycles for many years, so I'm no "beginner" driver. And I STILL LOVE my FRS!!! I intend to spend another 5 grand or more modifying it and NOT ONE PENNY will go into the motor beyond maint.; it's all going to Brakes and suspension. I just love that I can drive it flat out, all the time, every time I get into it. I don't race anyone, I don't use a stop watch anywhere, and I could care less what the speedo reads. It's all about how it feels to me, and that cheap little car feels brilliant!
enjoying the exhaust note
Matt you should check out how much that carbon fibre spoiler costs lol
Such a professional
its a fun car to drive for sure
Better Chassis than an ND Miata from the factory?
Matt, what kind of personal cars do you own?
250-260ish hp would probably do this car some justice, It would fill the FR turbo 4cly gap that was left by the S15 17 years ago
These still aren't turbocharged yet?