Planned Ignoring in Autism Treatment
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2025
- MUST SEE for Autism therapists & teachers!
In the autism community, we talk a lot about “meeting people where they’re at”.
The same principle applies when advocating for neurodiversity affirming practices.
We’ve got to meet teachers and therapists where they’re at. Telling them they’re #autism #autistic #aba #autismacceptance #autismawareness ableist and they suck isn’t going to change anything.
That’s why it’s called being “progressive”, we’re looking for progress and I’m proud of the steps being taken in that direction! 💖
How was that kid supposed to know that his jokes aren't appropriate if *nobody tells him?!* Man, that meme might be right, it really IS the neurotypicals that have issues with communication.
literally!
I swear 90% of neurotypical problems could be solved if they just talked with words instead of doing what amounts to facial interpretive dance like quadriplegic birds trying to mate.
@@tjenadonn6158 yeah! Autistic kids need so much help training a lot of things others take for granted, like moving your body (fine motor skills), and learning to guesstimate, and learning to interpret faces and more. Just ignoring a kid instead of giving them extra classes about what's usually socially appropriate is dumb.
@@tjenadonn6158I watched a movie called “Love Rosie” and I couldn’t help but think “all the problems and misery of this movie could be resolved by talking. I can’t sympathize with them.”
it's such a neurotypical attitude. i remember growing up (i'm autistic) my mom and other adults seemed to just expect me to know these things without having ever been taught them, or guided. like one time a friend asked if i could stay over and she was saying to our moms, "yeah she can stay over and we can play an extra few minutes" and i was agreeing with her nodding along hoping for more play time. my mom gruffly said no, and we went home. the whole way home she berated me for how "rude" it is to "invite yourself over like that" and that "it's a wonder if i'll ever get invited back for how rude i was" like?? i was six.
That’s basically the silent treatment, which is traumatizing to anyone, but even more so to a child and especially an autistic child!
Heaven forfend your mum is a single parent who is ALSO undiagnosed... H, E, double toothpicks, I can tell you.
My son has been diagnosed of autism spectrum since childhood and has battled with it all his life. But recently taking Dr Oyalo herbs have helped him get rid of it completely, his speech is vital and his social skill is perfect
Exactly. I had a meltdown in school and was moved into another room, where the teachers completely ignored me while I was sat crying and struggling to breath (I also have asthma 🫤). The way autistic students are treated is so disgusting, im so happy I’m not in school anymore
I think the traumatising part of it for autistic children is that they don’t understand why they are being ignored and may not even realise that it is intentional. Over time, they become increasingly confused. Are they not being heard or are they intentionally being ignored? And if so, why? That other boy said it earlier and everybody laughed… So why isn’t teacher laughing when I say it to her?
This may lead them to shut down altogether or develop selective mutism or overanalyse everything they say to the point that they barely talk at all. Reprimanding an autistic child for telling an inappropriate joke is also confusing… Their friends said it and everybody laughed… So they say it to somebody else expecting the same reaction only to get shouted at… How is it fair to shout at one kid for saying it to your face while still being lovely to the other kid who deliberately hid this supposedly “bad” behaviour from you?
I think this is a common thought process for autistic children. They may see interactions in absolutes rather than in context and find it dishonest when people present different faces to different people and become frustrated by those who fail to appreciate their consistency across all social relationships.
I am Autistic, and when I was a child and I asked an "inappropriate" (usually sexual) question, I'd be ignored with no explanation. So of course I'd assume that they just didn't hear me, and I'd repeat it louder like the kid in the example until I realised that I wasn't going to get an answer. So the lesson I learned was that anything remotely sexual is not to be talked about in any way, which has led to many issues down the line, to say the least.
Parents expecting kids to just "know" things, as if social norms are inherent in our nature, has always irked me. Even with neurotypical children, they're KIDS. Kids don't come out of the womb knowing what's rude or inappropriate. Even people who go on about how much they want kids don't want to put in the effort of teaching them properly.
I was just diagnosed with ADD and I’ve always struggled with social interactions for different reasons but the fact that no one ever tells me the unspoken rules mean I just have to try to figure them out myself which I do by mimicking people.
For real! Kids don't inherently know how to talk about their penis in class, or not to take off clothes in public, or whatever weird things kids do. They learn when they do those things and an adult is like "No, we don't do that."
I'm autistic and I have C-PTSD due in part to this. I wrote a novel based on my experiences. The following is a quote directly related to this practice:
_“The only thing worse than when nobody can hear you scream is when others can hear you, but they don’t care.”_
This is the _exact_ kind of comment I was looking for! I've had countless instances of this phenomenon happen to me when I was in middle school, in public, and many other situations. The even worse part is when I tell adults around me about the experiences and they simply exclaim "oh, my daughter felt that way when she was entering her freshman year, too. It's normal, you'll get acquainted", when said acquaintance _never happens._ The one thing I'll never get tired of laughing about is just how far neurotypical people will go to bullshit their way to giving you false affirmations, or none at all. Laughing in jest, obviously, because it's disgusting.
That hit home. Not for the same reasons, but that's such a powerful line. Have you published your book?
@@JaneAustenAteMyCat Not yet. I’m still editing it. I’ll publish it later this year, though.
@@furina-slash-focalors 100% their daughter never got acquainted, they just learned their parent will never hear them
just here to be updated on the book release :)
Planned ignoring is literally just a rebranding of learned helplessness. If you refuse to help someone in distress long enough, they'll learn that you are not a safe person and will not help them, and eventually stop showing distress or self advocating at all. This will look like obedience and compliance, and "getting better", but you have just severely harmed that person, and made them very easy to victimize, because now they know no one is coming to help, their efforts to get help will be ignored or punished, and that their distress/discomfort/pain is not important and should not be shown.
That's a scary thought
This. I was treated this way by my family and it has been so hard to navigate and overcome. To believe I'm worth help and to continue advocating for myself. Reading this comment was healing and validating, just knowing that someone else gets it. Thank you.
YES! When she started talking about it I kept waiting for her to say it's a terrible thing. I (vaguely) remember hearing something about a study done on dogs (one at a time if I remember correctly) where they kept the dog in a cage and shocked it. It would move away from the shock because it was in pain. Then they put it a position where it couldn't get away from the shock, and eventually it stopped trying. When they got rid of the restraints and it could escape the shock, it didn't because it had learned to be helpless. This is just that, but with kids. That pain (emotional or otherwise) from the situation they are in is basically the same as that electric shock given to the dogs. They aren't leaving to deal with it, they are learning that they can't escape that pain, so they shouldn't bother.
100%
THIS! This is so true!!!
I can’t believe they’re taught to IGNORE a crying child!! I have a nightmare 2-3 times a week where something terrible is happening to me, and no matter how loud I scream or cry nobody notices. To think they would inflict that NIGHTMARE on children!!!
As a teacher in training I don’t think the nuances were explained really well. There’s a difference between crying because you’re sad or need help and crying because you want attention in the middle of a lesson. Planned ignoring isn’t neglecting a kid. It takes time and skill to recognize when a behavior is attention seeking and until you learn that most people (including myself) err on the side of helping the kid. Problem is, that just provides positive reinforcement where the kid learns “If I do x, I’ll get atttention always.” I kind of compare it to a boy who cries wolf situation. In the story the boy didn’t really need help those two other times right? He just wanted the villagers attention to pull a prank on them. It teaches the kids to use these behaviors only when they really need them.
No, planned ignoring absolutely is neglect and ignoring a need. The idea of "positive reinforcement" is outdated, BTW. We know now that that's not how learning works. If a kid is trying to get attention, they have an unfulfilled need, period. Honestly, we should be moving away from the term "attention seeking behaviour", because it's misleading. It's need seeking behaviour, and shouldn't be treated as if the kid is being naughty.
@@panicatlabibliotecaemotionally secure children don't cry in the middle of lessons. your training really needs a reframe-this is not good classroom management or how to appropriately mentor+teach dysregulated kids. 'planned ignoring' is neglectful & deprives students of contextually appropriate learning opportunities
@@robokill387Yes! If a kid is ‘attention seeking’, the clue is… kind of in the name? They’re seeking attention. And why would they be seeking attention if they didn’t need attention? They wouldn’t be. Plus, if the kid is crying because they want attention, and everyone is ignoring them, they’re just going to find a louder, more disruptive, less appropriate way of getting attention. And what if the kid is actually crying, because they are sad? How is anyone going to know if they’ve all been told ‘x always cries to get attention, ignore them when they do that’? I completely agree with you, it should be called need-seeking not attention-seeking
Because most of the medical professionals working with autistic folx don't actually see them as human. There should be a safety class you can fail to be able to have kids and a personality disorder test you can fail and get kicked out of medical school. Preventable deaths in youth, women, and Queers are almost always some narcissistic asshole's fault and they shouldn't be allowed in positions of authority over other people especially not vulnerable ones.
Planned ignoring: because if we called neglecting our client's needs neglect that would make it sound like a bad thing.
It's not neglect as they are still taking care of their needs. People will often make absurd comments or statements with the goal of gaining attention even if it's the wrong kind of attention. Ignoring the joke or comment will eventually cause them to no longer make those statements or at least not expect to get attention for the inappropriate jokes.
@@porschepal7932 Except in the example given the kid just said them louder, because *nobody bothered to explain it to him in a way he could understand.* Y'all are expecting us to just understand what y'all mean without having to say anything when one of the major symptoms of ASD is not picking up on social cues! How are we supposed to learn if y'all ignore us and expect us to act in ways we physically can't??
I do believe every person should be treated individually. Before applying any intervention ignoring, redirecting or teaching alternative behaviors you need to understand the function of the behavior. If the function is attention then ignoring plus teaching alternative socially acceptable behavior would be the way to go. If the behavior is escape following through plus functional communication would be the selected. If the function is access to a desired person, item then functional communication and alternative support will be used.
So plan ignoring is not neglecting a person needs but looking into satisfying those needs in a socially acceptable way. Plus you never apply punishment, extinction or ignoring alone if you take away something you need to give something back and fill in the gap
@@forgenorman3025 Encourage good behavior, discourage bad behavior. In this case, provide good attention to good behavior and ignore bad behavior.
@@porschepal7932 *How is an autistic child supposed to know what's going on if nobody is explaining this to them?!* You seem to have no idea how autism actually works. Giving us the silent treatment and expecting us to figure out what you want only makes things worse. Did you even watch the video you're commenting on?!
It saddens me that we’re at a point where teachers see crying as “disruptive behavior”.
Imagine that these were adults and an adult was crying at their job, and instead of being comforted or treated with sympathy they’re purposefully ignored or told that they’re disruptive :(
I know my comment adds nothing to the discussion, maybe only making me look pathetic, but for some reason I find the irony hilarious - I am the person in your example 😂 And it's indeed met with annoyance, ignored, considered disruptive and an attempt at manipulation. It's great basically, -9/10 wouldn't recommend & desperately wish I could control myself.
i think it's such a negative attitude many adults have to kids. crying/tears are automaatically labled as "wanting attention" or "being dramatic." our feelings can never just be real.
@@promisemochiI have that EXACT problem. I've even pointed it out to my mom that whenever I get legitimately angry at anything my dad calls it "being dramatic" or carrying on, but whenever he gets angry at the drop of a hat that's allowed because he's the adult. (For refrence, I'm in my 20s).
And everyone else just acts like I'm supposed to accept this.
I 100% agree with ur comment but unfortunately I'm pretty sure that is what happens most of the time if an adult cries @ their job :(
I mean that's not far from what actually happens. Sure your co-workers who care might be sympathetic, but a boss is so unlikely to give a damn that you're better off just pretending to be okay.
I'm doing an internship in a school for mentally disabled kids at the moment, of which about half are autistic. Several times I almost cried when the teacher of the kids screamed at them or dragged them somewhere, but nothing felt as horrible as being told to ignore one kid that didn't want to eat what there was for lunch and was crying. I've seriously considered quitting. I understand how tiring constant crying can be, but I don't understand how you can lose all empathy with a child in pain. I was explicitly forbidden to even talk to them or give them any water. It felt like torture for me and for them surely aswell.
After one lunch, where I had to some extend ignored the instructions, the kid screamed when the teacher tried to hold their hand and ran to hold mine. For me this shows how simple it would have been to make it easier for the kid, as my small acts of compassion had already made me win their trust./gen
My son has been diagnosed of autism spectrum since childhood and has battled with it all his life. But recently taking Dr Oyalo herbs have helped him get rid of it completely, his speech is vital and his social skill is perfect
"I don't understand how you can lose all empathy with a child in pain." It's called compassion fatigue, and it can happen to anyone in any position of caregiving. Also, if a person is being told to do X until Y, and told that only doing X will stop Y, and that doing anything other than X will get them in trouble as an employee, then they're going to do it. Or they'll get fired/quit and the remaining employees will do X. Bad psychology is the basis for a lot of harmful or ineffective policies.
It is appalling how abusive and uncompassionate a lot of mental disability schooling can be. When I was very young, the same behaviour done by me (crying because I didn't want to spend 5 whole minutes of my 20 minute recess putting on snow pants instead of going outside) got me sent to the office to speak with a rational adult, but would have gotten someone with special needs screamed at, ignored, or forcefully dressed. 100% of my problem was that I was bad at putting them on, and I would have been fine if someone helped me or taught me how to do it, but I would have cried harder if forcefully shoved into them out of fear. I imagine the latter occurs unfortunately often.
i was always being grabbed, yanked around, screamed at, etc and i figured out it was inappropiate when i became verbal by how my teachers refused to acknowledge i was even "bad" to my parents even though theyd always punish me
That's just heartbreaking.
I hate when people talk about "attention seeking behavior" like its a crime to be punished. If someone is trying to get your attention, its probably because they need your attention. If a kid is acting out because they want people to talk to them, maybe you should talk to them more. Don't punish people for crying out for help.
Yeah, there's such a stigma for no good reason. Like, if a person is engaging in food seeking behavior. The reaction wouldn't be to withhold food.
I once happened across a book at the library -- wish I could find it again -- that was basically a long list of social rules that need to be taught explicitly to Neurodivergent kids, rather than expecting them to pick them up by osmosis. It was such a wonderful look at what so many people take for granted -- the kind of boundaries that Autistic people want to be clear and precise yet are communicated in an opaque and fuzzy way because *for some reason* the Neurotypicals find it awkward to talk about the things they want to have happen. Sheesh.
If you ever remember it please post it!
Social detective or We Thinkers from the superflex series maybe?
if you find the book again please tell us the name
pls tell the name
I'm sorry, I truly wish I could remember it enough to find it again. It was a random thing I found, and at the time I found out interesting but had no idea about Neurodivergence or the fact that a couple decades later I'd be seeking out a diagnosis for Autism and ADHD. It's one of those things I would have done very differently had I known.
Next time I'm at the library, if I even remember, maybe I'll see if the reference librarian could possibly help me locate it.
We're fostering a child with the exact opposite problem. Whenever she does something wrong she just shuts down completely - doesn't talk, doesn't answer, doesn't look you in the eye. She also uses this as a solution to any problem: can't get her jacket off? Shuts down and cries. Can't get to something? Shuts down and cries. Breaks something by accident? Shuts down and cries. So my mom takes her to a psychologist and they say it is because of, who would have guessed, planned ignoring. The most likely case is her biological parents would ignore her whenever she'd have an issue and try telling them or about it, maybe even back when she was a baby. So over time she just learned to shut down completely because she thinks speaking won't do her any good.
Okay but this explains a lot. My mother would regularly ignore me when I was getting emotional over stuff like not having food to eat or being in a walmart for longer than an hour and a half. I always had to get louder to get my needs met. I can only imagine what damage this is doing for students experiencing this getting implemented in their schools.
Attachment theory has been a thing for years. It's wild that professionals don't connect the dots.
Please do not focus on the concept planed ignoring and ignore the way it’s applied. Planed ignoring in my professional career was never applied on it’s own you combine it with redirection to alternative behavior, teaching a replacement behavior or reinforcing a socially acceptable behavior
@@autismadvance That's all well and good, except you saw in this video that it was being applied incorrectly, and who said this is the best way to teach autistic kids how to behave? A neurotypical person who thinks they know better than a neurodiverse one? ABA therapy was started by the same man who created gay conversion "therapy" in the US, so you'll excuse me if I don't trust something just because y'all claim it's true when there's literally video of it failing to do what it's supposed to do.
@@autismadvance it's important to listen to autistic voices/experiences. i don't really care what any training or teaching taught you. if it goes against what autistic people are saying, then it's irrelevant.
My son has been diagnosed of autism spectrum since childhood and has battled with it all his life. But recently taking Dr Oyalo herbs have helped him get rid of it completely, his speech is vital and his social skill is perfect
@@autismadvance how can you look at a disorder that is literally classified with not being able to interpret communication unless it is perfectly and obviously directly verbalized to them, coupled with emotional disregulation and come away thinking that cutting off all communication, and ignoring the only avenue they truly have to communicate, even if that avenue is personally displeasing to you is somehow the correct way to go about things?
Thank you. This is what happened to me a lot in school, I would have reactions either to being bullied or to not having my needs met in class, often as crying and lashing out at anyone trying to forcibly remove me from the room, only to be put into a room with two study carols and if I tried to talk to anyone who came into the social development room they would literally be told to ignore me and pretend I wasn't there at all. That's so damaging to me as an adult bc now if someone doesn't respond to something I've said to them I assume they are ignoring me BECAUSE I DID SOMETHING WRONG rather than the much more likely option which was they just didn't hear me... Autistic kids understand things when they are taught to us.
My son has been diagnosed of autism spectrum since childhood and has battled with it all his life. But recently taking Dr Oyalo herbs have helped him get rid of it completely, his speech is vital and his social skill is perfect
Why do neurotypicals expect us to guess why we’ve done something “wrong” I wasn’t diagnosed until adulthood but I think my social and school life would’ve been much easier if someone had sat down with me and gone over unwritten social rules.
Generally speaking, neurotypicals learn to read signals- body language, facial expressions. Babies learn this from a really young age. Unfortunately our society formed based on the assumption that everyone had the ability to read these unspoken signals. I’m so grateful to have these videos so I can better understand how ND people perceive the world. It must have been hard for you growing up trying to figure it all out without help.
Why do neurodivergents expect us to know how we should accommodate them? It would be much easier if someone sat us down and explained it.
@@LDogSmiles We try, but people ignore us and insist they know better than we do. Don't put this on us when the world straight up refuses to do anything to help us.
@@LDogSmilesyou are at a place that does EXACTLY that. The problem is schools, doctors and parents seek out ways to help autistic kids they usually don’t ask autistic people. The first several google results for autism support are Autism Speaks. So many well intentioned caregivers are given terrible advice because theres just so much noise unless if you spend literal days researching its impossible to tell whats helpful and whats abusive.
I have literally done this with my son, who is now an adult. He was diagnosed aged three. I have had to have some very uncomfortable (for me) conversations about relationships and sex, but I try to be pragmatic about it because he has to learn somehow. In the end it has resulted in a really close relationship for which I am grateful.
Ignoring sexual jokes is one thing. Ignoring crying is another thing. Autistic people are ignored a lot anyways. I don't think it is the best strategy. I was an abused, undiagnosed autistic teenager. I tried telling teachers and a counselor at school that I wasn't doing well. No one listened. I started physically harming myself to try and deal with things on my own. I still have the scars.
I used this doc herbs for my son and now my son is completely free, his speaking and behavior is ok. His herbs is 100% working on ASD. I met Dr Oyalo on channel and I’m happy to share my experience about it
@@bolinhong2598I need you to clarify what you're saying, because it sounds to me like you said there are herbs that cure autism. I hope that you haven't intended to write something so absurd to a person who was describing their pain.
I sometimes wonder if I had allowed myself on social media during High School, would I have become goth, emo or a self harmer.
Maybe I'd misinterpret the scars for people trying to prove how tough they were but I'd be too scared to actually cut myself so I'd fake it.
@@gothnerd887 Luckily for me there was no social media when I was a teenager.
@@literallythrowing3264It's a bot post trying to get people to buy into their scam
This also doesn’t fix the crying, ever! My parents did this and I still cry a ton all the time as an adult because it was never about attention seeking. They just didn’t understand my needs so they thought I was making them up. My distress was and is real, the crying was a response to it, and teaching me to suppress and ignore those distress signals made things worse for me in the long run.
Same here
I’m an autistic 17 year old and the entire beginning of this video made me feel extremely anxious. Imagine if parents were taught not to react to their own child crying
Parents WERE taught to ignore crying babies in the 60s and 70s for sure. Most of my early childhood memories are pretty sad as a result.
unfortunately, you don’t have to imagine. for decades, at least in the US, it was taught that “letting them cry it out” was the best thing to do when your baby was crying. I grew up like this, and needless to say I don’t talk to my mother anymore. there were other factors of course, but neglect is neglect, even if society accepts it as reasonable parenting.
@@beanstheman8844 I still hear people using "cry it out" as if it were a valid parenting strategy. Though they usually call it "sleep training" to make it sound nicer. It's still horrific and damaging. It isn't parenting to ignore the basics of child development and punish an infant for being unable to self regulate. They have to learn that through co-regulation.
I'm sorry you were treated that way. It's totally understandable you don't talk to her. I hope you're finding healing now.
Man, this hit me hard. I'm autistic and I'm pretty sure my daughter is, too. And it just... Irks me so hard that people refuse to address her genuine confusion as anything besides disobedience or "attention seeking behavior" when the reality is that she just doesnt have the social contexts that they have. Adults that I know and trust have tried to tell me I need to ignore her more often but all I'm doing is noticing that she has a misalignment between understanding and action and then treating her like a person. A person who is confused and needs more information. Not an infant who is throwing a tantrum, but a hurting person who is overwhelmed by how difficult social interaction is.
Anybody ignoring a crying child (or adult) should really re-examine their life choices. Even if they are just seeking attention, they probably want it for a reason. This just seems selfish and cruel to do to another person.
My son has been diagnosed of autism spectrum since childhood and has battled with it all his life. But recently taking Dr Oyalo herbs have helped him get rid of it completely, his speech is vital and his social skill is perfect
I didn't know this was a thing and was quite appalled because I use planned ignoring with my DOG. I can't explain to him why we don't want him to whine and bark in the car to get our attention, so all we can do is ignore him. Again, he wouldn't be able to understand if I tried explaining. It seems to me that's the key thing here. It seems those people who started with this assumed autistics wouldn't understand either, which is beyond heartbreaking and offensive.
This kind of thing is dangerous for all species. It’s a lie that people who think they are higher than their work tell. It’s so upsetting.
I have seen dogs who had minor barking issues develop into hardcore ‘I’m going to maul you’ aggression because the trainers that people go to tell the owners to ignore it. Well once the dog gets that bad, the planned ignoring based trainers end up refusing to help the owners. One trainer that I watch, helped a dog that was like who ended up having bad anxiety, not “true” aggression like the other trainers said.
Since he has dealt with so many different levels of anxiety in dogs he was able to tell how to “treat” it quickly. He realized that correcting a smaller behavior of anxiety, like trying to run away from a crated dog because of it just existing there taught the dog to not overreact.
Instead of putting the dog on tranquilizers the dog knows that none of the other dogs are a risk because their owner will tell them what to do if something happens.
I know this is a video about humans but I am an extreme nerd on dog training and aspire to rehab severe aggressive behavior in dogs.
Even with dogs this kind of approach is dangerous and can become deadly. There’s lots of big brand dog trainers who say to never tell a dog no or “correct” them and to just ignore them.
If you are lucky, the dog might understand, but 90% of the time any time I have ever seen a dog who ends up biting someone, those trainers over drug the dogs instead of helping them.
It’s so sad because humans do the same thing to each other.
In my hobbyist study of dog training, I have learned that the things that humans use to train animals now is so similar to how humans treated children.
People used to value children and animals as extremely important assets, children will continue the bloodline and provide for the people around them, and animals provide food and some protection. Then children and animals both became just things you have, you keep them alive (in children’s case) until they develop their own opinions and then you ignore them.
Now we are starting to go back to both being valuable (like they are) because they are alive.
It’s like humans keep losing communication with everything around them. Which make me sad because God created so much beauty and we keep missing out on it :(
My son has been diagnosed of autism spectrum since childhood and has battled with it all his life. But recently taking Dr Oyalo herbs have helped him get rid of it completely, his speech is vital and his social skill is perfect
i’ve trained my dog to stop howling when i tell him to (he does this when family members leave) but when he continues whining quietly afterwards i don’t reprimand. that’s him expressing his sadness, and i just tell him to come up and sit with me on the couch, pet and comfort him, but tell him to quiet down if he tries to howl again. he doesn’t understand why we leave the house, we’re his whole world of course he’s gonna miss us and be sad. he used to howl every time someone leaves, now it’s maybe 1/3 times, and thats always when my door is closed and he can’t get to me.
i’m not a dog trainer so take my advice with a grain of salt, this is just what worked for me and our dog, i’d say “quiet” every time he howled, when he stops howling, give a treat. this also made him happier since he enjoys training and never complains about getting a treat. he might not understand why you want him to be silent, but he’ll get that not barking means a reward. eventually, stop giving the treat and just praise and, if possible based on where he is in the car, pet him.
it’s important to still encourage your dog to be expressive. howling is a way for him to express he’s upset, me telling him to quiet down and come over so i can pet him is me showing i understand what he’s feeling, then i let him talk a little in other ways, that reinforces it’s okay for him to feel sad, to express it, howling just isn’t the way to do so. it’s important to remember that we shouldn’t only reprimand what is wrong, we need to reward what they do right. that’s how we communicate with them. our dog might not understand that we don’t want him to howl since we live in an apartment complex and that’ll bother the neighbours, but he understands that he can express himself in other ways by me reinforcing that.
again, this is just how it works in my family and with our dog, so i’m not at all saying this is the only right way to handle the situation.
That isn't great for your dog either tbh. What I did for mine was to make time to get her used to being in the car and being calm (she was scared of cars when I got her and would shake and cry). I started by just bringing her to the car, getting her to climb in on her own, treat, and have her come back out. Once she was okay with that I started having her lay down in the car, and slowly increased the period of time. Then I had the car on and running and would have her climb in and lay down, treat, and back out. Then slowly extending time again. Once she was fully calm and would stay calm in the running car for 20 minutes, we would drive around the block, treat, and let her back out. Once she mastered that, slowly increased the duration of the drives.
Your dog is anxious, they are in a loud, vibrating metal box, it's uncomfortable and moving, the smells and sounds around them are changing very rapidly (and the dog may not be able to see outside of the car if they're small enough which makes this worse). Plus if you have to brake suddenly, that's gonna throw them around a little and they straight up can't understand it.
The key things are 1. If your dog is scared, try to see it from their perspective. They don't understand the idea of a car, for them it's probably the noisy shaky box where they can't reach their humans for help. 2. Recognize that this is about fear, not misbehaving. Training out the whining and barking directly just trains out the dog's ability to advocate and tell you something is wrong. Helping them be less afraid and become more comfortable and used to the situation will stop the fear behaviors by removing the fear from the situation, but leave the dog's advocacy ability intact.
@@Alice-lx4ml thing is, he's not scared, he's excited. Whenever we go home from wherever we've been, he sleeps the whole way. Also I'm literally getting professional help to train him to become my service dog but thanks anyway
I'm auadhd my son is autistic so it's really hard when he's having a meltdown and I'm overwhelmed at the screaming. I'm trying not to shut down so much in response to all of the screaming and banging and sometimes me being completely quiet and not responding or trying to help actually helps him. Me being present and showing I'm listening without responding and just being there does a whole lot more than ignoring him.
i spent the first months of my life in an orphanage where crying was always ignored.
i never cried until i was 5. my mom thought this was great. but all it meant was that i didn’t express my needs (like my severe chronic nerve pain nobody knew about until i was 17). crying was ignored because it was disruptive, talking was ignored because it was “demanding.”
i can’t believe people genuinely do that as “therapy” i understand everyone is different but if you don’t explain what a child is doing wrong to them (at their developmental level) its no better than emotional neglect
The more i learn about this the more it seems to appear that communication for a neurotypical with a neurodiverse person seems synonymous with communication from a human with an animal where the animal cannot vocalize words butbrather noises and body language. I feel this is the same with neurotypical people considering how often they seem to rely on nonverbal communication that a neurodiverse person has difficulty undersranding yet a neurodiverse person seems to often be able to understand words and act on them accordingly. Neurotypicals seem to look for a meanining between the words via this body language not realizing that with a neurodiverse person it may not exist.
My son has been diagnosed of autism spectrum since childhood and has battled with it all his life. But recently taking Dr Oyalo herbs have helped him get rid of it completely, his speech is vital and his social skill is perfect
My parents mentioned that they stopped spanking me because it "stopped working" to 6-8 y/o me (I'd just stopped crying, because they always told me to after, so I realized I was wasting my energy)
My autistic child brain interpreted that as meaning that I'd had it wrong, I wasn't supposed to learn from punishments, but "build a tolerance" to them, and not only erased much of their disciplinary progress, but also made all future discipline half as effective for every new one.
It's awesome that you gave this speech, it's so important that your voice is heard for the benefit of everyone, not only autistic people. I would love to hear your thoughts on communicating/connecting/acknowledging nonverbal autistic people if you'd like to make a video on that!
Thank you!!
Yes, videos on nonverbal autism would be great.
My son has been diagnosed of autism spectrum since childhood and has battled with it all his life. But recently taking Dr Oyalo herbs have helped him get rid of it completely, his speech is vital and his social skill is perfect
Don’t listen to this person her ideas are borderline abuse. Signed a person with autism
Finally! Someone who understands what this IS and what it’s NOT!
Ignoring bad or attention seeking behavior is NOT neglect. It’s something that has been distorted and perverted by ignorant or cruel people but when done correctly it can be an effective way to modify disruptive for disruptives sake behaviors.
Like when my mom used to tell me to ignore my little brother deliberately trying to bait me. Simple. Effective.
This doesn’t apply to someone who has a true need and it doesn’t mean to ignore the PERSON but the unwanted INAPPROPRIATE BEHAVIOR.
A person’s real needs should never be ignored but sometimes, as humans, we all can be obnoxious. THIS is what we are not giving attention to.
Really not that hard to understand folks….js
I genuinely expected this woman to talk about how terrible planned ignoring is, but she appears to genuinely support it. Ignoring a crying child is so objectively wrong I don't even have the words to describe it.
My "step daughter" (not married but lomg term partners with her dad) has autism, and she chose to show me a meltdown the 2nd or 3rd time we met when she understood that "I may not know what to do, but I'm here to keep you safe until we figure something out." I've gone out of my way to show her that I am absolutely a safe person for her to express herself, but I also won't hover over her.
She expressed affection by wrestling with me, pretending to be a tarantula (she'd recently had an exotic animals guest in her school) and, she doesn't usually physically engage others when she plays, so the wrestling was a huge show of trust.
Problem was, I was eating. So I would occassionally put my food down, we'd play this little wrestle for a few minutes, and I'd let her know "okay, I need to pause because I'd like to eat. We can carry on in a few minutes." And she was really good about waiting, sometimes she'd get impatient but even so I'd put my food down and tell her to give me a few minutes so my food can settle or if I was ticcing quite badly (I have tourette's syndrome), then we'd continue playing
It really was the loveliest time. I love her so much, she's my wee monkey
Planned ignoring should only be used in certain situations when the function of the behaviour has been determined. You should be ignoring the behaviour, not the child. Providing tissues and comfort is totally okay. An alternate behaviour needs to be provided to request what they are needing, for example connection.
But the function of the behaviour is only someone's guess. It's impossible to know.
Meanwhile, ignoring children does teach a lot of things you probably didn't want to teach them. Invalidation, feeling invisible, learning their needs don't matter, poor self esteem, emotional shutdown, etc. Being systematically unresponsive to children is a type of abusive behaviour. Children *cannot* tell the difference between "ignoring the behavior" and "ignoring the child." Also, what is "behaviours" to adults is "experiences" to children.
@@seajelly2421 This video has an example of ignoring the behavior without ignoring the child. She didn't respond to the inappropriate joke, either with laughter or anger, but she did engage with him by reminding him of their lesson.
Another example: a kid kicks me in the leg. I know that he's probably bored or lonely and it's a way he's previously learned to get his needs met, but we're teaching him another way, so I ignore the kick and model/prompt an appropriate request for attention. Ignoring the behavior, engaging with the child.
@@ivyhearst3554 those are not examples of ignoring, though. They are examples of responding appropriately. Not reacting =/= ignoring.
My son has been diagnosed of autism spectrum since childhood and has battled with it all his life. But recently taking Dr Oyalo herbs have helped him get rid of it completely, his speech is vital and his social skill is perfect
@@seajelly2421in my education program we were taught that planned ignoring is not responding to a behavior that is attention seeking (based on the function it serves), it's not completely ignoring a child and their needs
I had a reoccurring theme in my nightmares, all the way into adulthood, about having a conversation with my family having to do with something I was bothered by or wanted.
In the dream they would react bored or dissmissive and totally blank faced. I would keep pressing until I was screaming and crying and having the most VIOLENT tantrums- and they would, at best, roll their eyes.
I would wake up bawling hard everytime. Sometimes in a panic. Then when I reviewed the events of the dream I'd be confused, the conversation in the dream might be as small as "I dont actually like watermelon" and I would wake up thinking that no one in the world had ever loved me and I was actually going to die. It just didn't make any sense...
I think I understand what thats all about now 😅
I honestly thought she was talking about what psychiatry departments do to autistic adults who need help 😅. Seems like we are ignored and called “low priority” across the board even though we have the highest suicide rates.
My son has been diagnosed of autism spectrum since childhood and has battled with it all his life. But recently taking Dr Oyalo herbs have helped him get rid of it completely, his speech is vital and his social skill is perfect
Right????? We're not "serious" enough to get services or accommodations, but we're problematic enough that they take away our rights to adopt etc. It's frustrating as hell.
@@thoopsy I mean, it makes sense, as there isn't that much to do with something that can't be fixed. I mean, isn't it the best idea to take the nihilistic approach of "why bother with trying to find a solution if we still don't know if it exists"? the only better thing to do would be to find a way to cure it(making a person's brain structure completely different).
I'm being sarcastic if it wasn't clear.
at this point, neurotypicals might as well cut of their ears physically; they already did it mentally. ah, wait, but then they'll judge each other for not looking pretty/normal.
@@ssjcrafter8842it absolutely was not clear that you were being sarcastic until you explicitly said it. Be careful
In grade one, there were 2 autistic kids in my class: me and this other kid, and we both were paired up to this Special Needs teacher. One day, I saw the other kid crying in class, and the teacher was making him stand facing a wall, saying things like "I don't want to hear you cry" and things like that. At the time, I didn't really understand that this was bad teaching, but now, as I look back, I realize she didn't really teach healthy ways to cope with emotions, and I realize that things she did when working with me, like her reward system for "being calm" for an amount of time, were neglectful as well.
My son has been diagnosed of autism spectrum since childhood and has battled with it all his life. But recently taking Dr Oyalo herbs have helped him get rid of it completely, his speech is vital and his social skill is perfect
oh man ): in other words, she was rewarding you for dissociating from your emotions+environment
@@eCodex Ikr??
I'm an elementary SpEd associate teacher & I get assigned to a lot of the kids with high behavior needs &/or lower verbal skills bc I like figuring out how to communicate with them & don't mind going over something a bunch of times until we find the way or # of times that it clicks. It also helps that I don't get frazzled blocking one kid from another, or from something unsafe or inappropriate (diabetic kid going for someone else's juice when they already have high blood sugar, kid trying to strip in the middle of class), even if that means redirecting or giving the same verbal prompt over and over again. Sometimes kids just need repetition or time for stuff to sink in.
If a kid runs out of the classroom & down the hall, we follow at a safe, measured pace unless they're headed for something that can hurt them. We don't want to make it into a game of chase bc then they'll get those fun neurochemicals like endorphins & adrenaline that will make them want to run more. So we stay as boring as possible while prompting them to return to class. If they try to engage with us, we tell them "I'm happy to talk about that once we're back in the classroom.". If they try or threaten to do something that could hurt themselves or others we intervene as calmly as we can. At the same time we're also trying to figure out what they're telling us with their behavior. Are they doing this behavior at about the same time every day? Is it happening when we place a particular demand on them, like listening quietly to a book or working on a certain subject. Maybe they need a break built in at that time, or just a more appropriate way to ask for what they want. Maybe they need more stimulation, or less, or a coping mechanism we haven't offered yet. Maybe they just need more practice at one they're learning so that they can start to recognize when they need it & use it on their own *before* they blow up at a classmate or take off down the hall.
So do I sometimes have to not respond to screaming? Yes, bc I don't want to reinforce the idea that screaming will get them what they want. Does that mean I don't care, or am ignoring the child? Absolutely not. I continue to respond to my student at appropriate intervals (as per the Social Worker's behavior plan, usually between once every 30s-2 min) reminding them of what they need to do to get what they want, and monitoring the entire environment for their & others' safety.
Not every kid is safe to approach while they're escalated/ tantruming. We do our best to learn the signs that tell us they're getting upset so we can hopefully deescalate before we hit that point, but sometimes it's 0-60 in a second & then we're just trying to not get hit in the head or bit while keeping all the kids in the room safe. Even then, we are looking for "off ramps" that might help us help them get out of the running, screaming, hitting, etc. And as soon as we're back on track we hit that positive reinforcement. I praise the heck out of them for doing the appropriate thing & using their resources, giving hugs, high 5s, whatever they prefer. Get that dopamine if at all possible and then help them get focused on something positive so that those good chemicals get associated with those good choices.
Later, when they've got some distance from the escalation, if they can, we debrief about what upset them & why. We talk about what resources they can use, identify both the trigger (if possible) & the feeling to help them learn what's going on inside of them & how they can learn to help themselves. Sometimes kids don't get to this point by the end of the day, so we try to just give them a fresh start unless later there's something they want to bring up, and we always end the day with a hug or hand squeeze if they want, and tell them we're glad they came.
So yeah, it boils my blood when other teachers (usually not SpEd) either "correct" in a way that escalates kids (mine or their classmates) & then ignore the results bc they don't want to deal with the mess they've made. Neurotypical kids come to school with incomplete sets of coping strategies too, and I think it's *all* of our jobs as teachers to fill in those gaps when we find them. Breathing strategies, mindfulness, meditation, grounding, recognizing emotions, communicating effectively are all things we should all be teaching kids, bc everyone needs them.
Bc there are no bad kids, but there's definitely some crummy adults.
Allistic here, can't imagine that in this day and age, people still practice this.
As a child of emotional neglect, Ik that feeling like a piece of meat is a terrible feeling. It's not acceptable just bc they're autistic.
Thanks for this. I’m autistic and went through neglect as well. It’s messed up that people try to convince me people didn’t know better and were “trying”
I was in the audience when you gave this speech. You were amazing. And I was honored to meet you.
I’m autistic and for the first two or so years of school I had an assistant. While none of them ever tried “planned ignoring” there was one that did something a bit similar.
For these first two years of school, my class would go to the forest every Friday morning. One of these times, when I was like 7, I think I was either wet or cold or just tired and I wanted go back inside. I was crying which annoyed my assistant,. She kept telling me to stop crying but of course that didn’t work.
When we got back the teacher put on a movie (for any Swedes reading this, it was Emil i Lönneberga) the movie was about a boy trying to get his dying friend to the doctor, and in the scene were his friend finally gets treatment, the narrator says “Emil cried, but silently, so no one would notice”, and my assistant turned to me and said that that’s what she wanted me to do next time.
Well I'm a neurotypical 42 yo german woman and to this day i will cry loudly at this scene... It's a shame this assistant didn't get her priorities right.
@@bacul165 Yeah, sometimes I wonder if she read her job-description. Another time when I asked her to read me the instructions in a work book she just said “no, you’re supposed to know this but now” (I was a slow learner). Luckily I didn’t have her for very long and those two moments are about my only memories of her. All the other assistants I had were a lot better and a lot more patient thankfully. I’m glad that people such as the woman in the video exist. I’ve been following her for a while and she is making such good points in every one of her videos. I try to advocate for neurodivergent people, my people as much as possible, so does my mother. She works in a museum and renovated one of the exhibitions to be a sensory room so that people sensory issues can experience the museum too. Society has far to go when it comes to understanding and accepting neurodivergent people but we are gradually getting better.
that was an awful jab for her to make at you, im sorry you experienced that :/
That is really sad. Care should be about what is best for the child and not what us convenient for the adult.
My parents chose to homeschool me, and used planned ignoring throughout my childhood and education. I'm still coming to terms with how damaging this actually was, despite beginning to recognize the triggers and emotional wounds it fostered in me. It absolutely destroys me to see it used on children or adults by their caregivers- especially when they're confused, or emotionally distressed.
When I cried loudly (or melted down, I now realize) as a child, my father would harshly explain to me that such behavior was, and only could be, done for attention. He would refuse to comfort, soothe, or remove me from a situation until I was able to "control myself" AKA- bring my squeaking, frightened wails down to soft weeps and gentle tears. This was done from as early on as I can remember. After I began to recognize this pattern, I grew to become very adept at disassociating through intense feelings, rather than express what I was actually experiencing emotionally. Big, intense feelings, began to feel like a Threat to my safety -at times even the safety of my loved ones- and continue to. At 22 years old in February, I'm only just learning the difference between being excited, and being afraid.
In just this most recent summer, on break from work at the renaissance festival, a few friends and I were looking at some of the booths. We wandered behind the arena, right before -we hadn't realized- a musketeer show. Though distressing on a good day, in this new position, the sound of the muskets was Much louder. At the first shot, my friends and I all ducked- though I didn't get back up. Silent and disassociated, I sat cross legged in the dirt covering my ears and flinching at every volley- I was unable to say anything other than how it was okay, how I was fine, how I was Sorry, and how the others in the booth (who were also autistic) should get somewhere quiet and leave me behind. They didn't, of course, which was nice- if concerning. I felt really bad for being the reason they wouldn't get away. And still do, actually, I'm realizing upon recounting the story.
If you've made it all the way to the end here, of these ramblings and still consider Planned Ignoring a reasonable technique to use with those you care for... Please consider a different career path. Or seek support for your loved one from someone better equipped than yourself.
I was not ignored by teachers because I was never 'disruptive' (also female, thus not diagnosed until my 30s) but I did experience this from classmates, from primary school to highschool. Often we spoke normally, but if more popular people were around, they would suddenly stop responding. I had a whole mental breakdown in highschool that I'm still not fully recovered from because I convinced myself that there was something wrong with my very soul. I couldn't comprehend treating a human being like that, so I assumed I must not be one. I stopped socialising.
It still happens now as an adult at TAFE, whenever we have a group project and I have to speak to classmates. I usually know the answers, but everyone will ignore me until someone more popular repeats what I've said. All I learned is that it's quicker to guide neutotypical people to the answer than to say it outright, because they won't accept it from someone they see as weird. I can't say it hurts less over time, but at least I know myself more.
I know it doesn’t hurt any less but after reading your post, I hope you’re not offended when I say I’m really proud of you. It’s not easy to pull yourself together after a repeated, prolonged social experience that would drive anyone crazy. Neurotypical people generally do not have this kind of resilience as it is, or at least cannot experience in such a profound way so it’s not surprising someone who is neurodivergent could come up with this kind of objective, sound reasoning- especially after having gone through it. Most people don’t even have a *shred* of empathy, much less self-understanding and they’re supposed to be “typical”… I wish I could just send you a little box of healing or something. You’re cool and thank you for your post.
To be fair to him, the video of Daffy duck saying he slammed his penis in the car door followed by parappa the rapper repeating it back to him is some high tier comedy That frequently gets stuck in my autistic brain
this was the hardest thing that i had to figure out on my own, because im autistic, and have an autistic son, so ignoring his mannerisms and cries for more attention when i know i was that way as a kid and now feel perpetually ignored and like my voice has no power, it didnt feel right, and as was said, the behavior would just get more frequent and louder. I'm glad that my family found a different approach because this one for us was iffy at best.
what was your approach?
What a great response! As an autistic woman and a special needs provider, this is an alternative I would like to incorporate with my own students😊 Thank you!
My son has been diagnosed of autism spectrum since childhood and has battled with it all his life. But recently taking Dr Oyalo herbs have helped him get rid of it completely, his speech is vital and his social skill is perfect
Don’t 😐 ignoring them when they are upset won’t do shit
@@Huh9631did you watch the video? Because that’s not what she suggested.
So interpersonally the silent treatment is considered a form of emotional abuse. But planned ignoring is considered treatment?
That's ABA for you. Medically obfuscated emotional abuse. Sad that there are people still practicing it and it's not yet illegalized.
That is really good advice I work with adults who are on the spectrum and have a hard time understanding why some people don’t like their “3rd grade” jokes. I think it’s awesome that more attention is being paid on how to meet people where they are at and not what their age is.
I used to work with kids with neurodivergent kids at a big agency as a therapist. It's so sad that ABA still exists, and that kids are not treated like small human beings trying to make sense of the world. Thank you for the work you do Kaelynn :)
Wow I had a similar conversation with one of my kids just this week. He tends to “instigate” other students (trying to joke or tease them) and gets reprimanded often for it. Instead of ignoring it, I explained why some people react to him negatively. It’s going to take more repetition for sure, but I could tell he appreciated being talked to about it instead of being ignored or yelled at
Ignoring is the worst thing. My mom did that for a long long time. I asked her why she is not responding to me talking and she said that I talk so much that she is not able to listen to me. I really tried to make my sentences shorter but instead I ended up with communication issues due to not being able to precisely point out my thoughts. We just need more understanding and patience, not "special threatment".
Non-autistic children struggle with this type of dysfunctional social education as well - it's called 'stonewalling' and can cause serious developmental issues as the kid tries to make sense of why they're being treated this way.
You could deliver this talk to teachers everywhere.
Have had this happen to me and I felt horrible for so long. And the crying didn’t stop. Thank you. ❤
Find the inner need or feeling causing the behavior, and then treat that, not the behavior itself.
If you want a book on how, read Discipline Without Distress, by Judy Arnall. No bribery, no punishments.
Works beautifully on my young autistic nephews, as well as neurotypical adults, and myself! 😊
And thanks for helping that boy!!! ❤
Another strategy is to teach the kid some more appropriate funny jokes.
Yes, thank you! And about when it's suitable to tell jokes! I had a whole little book of dad pun jokes as a first grader kid, I couldn't connect with my peers because we had little to nothing in common and so I sought the attention of teachers when it seemed they weren't busy with others nor class-work and they enjoyed the jokes I had memorized. My parents were abusive shit-heads (abusive in a way that's abusive even when done to neurotypicals). Teachers were the closest thing I had to healthy parental figures and I was incredibly lucky to have teachers (and kindergarten teachers) who actually used their words. Even though I wasn't diagnosed with anything back in the 90s, and I wasn't diagnosed until two or three years ago.
She said she did that in the video, where they went over a variety of jokes including knock knock jokes. She was the one telling the jokes to him and asking him who he thought would laugh at them.
@@pendlera2959 Good point!
Fr I’m not even neurodivergent but I acted like that in second grade and that would have helped
I can see how planned ignoring would be helpful in curbing some errant behavior, but my daughter already claims that I and others don't listen to her and that makes her feel invisible.
You are SO right to see this as an unhelpful tool for her. She'll already have some fairly set pathways in her brain about being ignored and how that makes her feel, so employing this kind of approach really wouldn't be appropriate until she's further along her developmental journey and can APPRECIATE the occasional brief ignore, always with clarification available.
I can tell you for an actual fact, whether or not you consider your behaviour to mean that you're ignoring her, if your child feels that way, it won't just go away. You have to address it somehow. My mum used to zone out and stare at walls while I cried my eyes out due to what she called "growing pains" (I have EDS). She wouldn't do a thing. To HER mind, she was probably waiting for me to calm myself down. But when you're 2.5 years old, in horrible pain and you're being ignored (which is what she was doing), it ruins you.
Sorry, that was a lot of personal info. I just appreciate that you understand this strategy wouldn't be great for your daughter right now, even if you don't feel like you ignore her and her expectations are too hard to fill (kids can be demanding as heck, we know this!). Having a parent who's even willing to TRY to understand is a huge win, you keep it up, Spooky!!
I used this doc herbs for my son and now my son is completely free, his speaking and behavior is ok. His herbs is 100% working on ASD. I met Dr Oyalo on channel and I’m happy to share my experience about it
Imagine trying to express yourself and open up to an adult you trust, and they hold up a stop sign
Thank you so much for this explanation. Inappropriate ignoring is done so much in the field. I've quit several jobs for ethical reasons and this is one of the practices I've had issue with.
My mom and dad tried to do this with my little brother when he was having meltdowns and I had to explain to them multiple times it wasn’t good for them or him and it took weeks to get them to stop ignoring him when he got upset, luckily they don’t do it anymore, I had to show them that him crying and screaming for them to please look at him was not a good thing or a good replacement for his other behavior.
I specifically remember being ignored. It created long lasting rejection anxiety
This is really good. Sadly, This "planned ignoring" is wildly popular where i grew up, for all children. I tried it with my own daughter a few times and fortunately she has healthy self esteem and she definitely made me realize it WAS NOT going to work. Shes smarter than me😂
So often, ALL WE NEEDED WAS A SPECIFIC EXPLANATION.
I'm a behavioral therapist trained in Applied Behavioral Analysis (ABA). Planned ignoring is only used when the child's behavior is for attention-seeking purposes. To promote positive behavior, we also use differential reinforcement, which involves prompting the child to engage in an appropriate response and providing attention and praise. We never take away an aspect of a child's behavior without giving them a replacement behavior to engage in instead. This woman explains this concept well - therapists and adults may ignore inappropriate behavior, but peers will engage with the child and provide positive reinforcement. It's important to apply ABA correctly to avoid emotional harm to children, but when done ethically, it can help children learn new appropriate social behaviors that they wouldn't learn on their own. I have autism and would have benefitted immensely from a reputable ABA program if it had existed when I was 4.
Former RBT here, this drove me up the wall during my last job and it's one of the many criticisms I have against what I learned through the APF. Thank You for sharing this information publicly. Had I learned these things prior to going into the field, I may never have stepped foot in it.
Planned ignoring 100% works for specific behaviors. Not with attention seeking behavior, but with response seeking behavior. As someone who has worked with kids for 10+ years, I can tell you, ignoring a behavior and allowing a child to learn to self regulate and self soothe is absolutely effective. There are certain intense behaviors that you cannot reason with or assuage, wether you like it or not. After the behavior stops, the ignoring stops and a conversation can be had at a later time. You’re not traumatizing a child by TEMPORARILY ignoring their outbursts. A child who cannot self regulate does not become the immediate priority above all other children and humans in the moment they decide to act out. Reacting to these behaviors teaches the child that this is a way to gain immediate attention & that is completely unhealthy. We should not be teaching our children that screaming helps to communicate their needs or that people are going to go out of there way to accommodate their tantrums.
I would also like to add that I myself am neurodivergent and also have had many successful years working with neurodivergent students that others could not reach.
I grew up in the 80's and 90's and it's the first half of this which hits close to home.
Now that I'm a broken adult with so many issues due to not being heard.
This information is stuff I'm learning as a grown adult. I'll be 30 this year, and I still have to ask my therapist regularly about acceptable social behavior and how to properly navigate social situations because nobody taught me these things.
Yes! Me too!
There's so much I don't understand and didn't even know that I didn't understand!
If teachers were ignoring me when I cried for no reason when I was little or even now, I would be in such a worse mental state than I already am. This sounds like a nightmare to me, as a neurodivergent person I couldn’t think off anything worse than an adult purposefully ignoring me, also it would be much better to directly tell the boy that he shouldn’t make those jokes in the first place rather than just saying he can only say them around his peers.
It’s sad how people assume calling the silent treatment something else is basically fine because they called it “planned ignoring” and I feel like that name for it is directed towards autism specifically because of the stigma that autism is just someone who demands everything be set in stone in terms of plans.
I appreciate this video! This is a very helpful video and genuinely would have been very helpful to me as a child. It was one of those instances where I was expected to ‘pick it up’. I wasn’t NT. I never did 😅. I just got ignored and shunned because I was and am out of sync. Still do. It’s important to TALK to them. Not just shut them out and down.
My mom shutting me in a closet didn’t making me understand what I was doing wrong 😅
Think of how much better the world would be if people actually did this - just say "hey Billy, X audience isn't allowed to laugh about that kind of thing. That type of joke is better to tell with your friends at recess." It's not that hard.
It wasn't even an autistic kid as far as I know, but a teacher had a story about a kid who told a really sexual joke in class once. None of the other kids understood it because they were like 6. Teacher quietly pulls the kid aside later and asks where he heard that joke (an uncle), and if he knew what it meant (no). Teacher explains that teachers and classmates aren't the right audience for that kind of joke. Kid is like "okay" and doesn't tell it again. Much easier than ignoring him altogether or yelling at him about it.
most kids in my experience do not listen when you tell them this
Thank you! A very necessary talk wih a MUCH BETTER SOLUTION! Most useful! 😊
My mom had a friend who practiced “planned ignoring” on me. I was having a meltdown and she just sat there, sipping her coffee, waiting for me to calm down. Sometimes this can work for me, but most of the time, communication works just as well if not better than this whole “planned ignoring” thing.
Good speech. Great to see you thrive in helping others.
I just started a tutoring job and this is an invaluable lesson to have learned in brief. Definitely gonna check out some books related to this and teaching to make sure I'm on top of my game. Thanks for making such straight forward and informative content it's been great to learn from.
My son has been diagnosed of autism spectrum since childhood and has battled with it all his life. But recently taking Dr Oyalo herbs have helped him get rid of it completely, his speech is vital and his social skill is perfect
Kaelynn you're amazing. At your job and at sharing ideas in a friendly/easy to understand way. ❤
Luckily i never dealt with planned ignoring as a child, instead every adult who ever confronted me about anything just kept asking why i was crying in increasingly angry tones while i stood there, not really knowing myself why i was crying because my emotions are invisible to me.
damn. wouldve been good to have been told in school that being ignored meant i said something wrong. took me much too long to figure that out and that was after i gave up trying to talk to others mostly at all
Yeah I am a victim of planned ignoring. And when I was ignored as a child I would get louder and louder and then I would get slapped and sent to my room. I was often told to STFU. And I am now 51 I still have trouble asking for help and I have major trust issues.
TW. Violence
As someone who went to daycares with lots of kids with varying developmental levels, and being on the spectrum myself (although I went unrecognized by staff) that just gave them reason to ignore when these kids were abusing and assaulting others.
I had to figure out a way to ask for help and wait while I was being strangled and couldn't breathe. Then I had fo patiently wait for them to slowly get the kid strangling me to stop. Other things happened, but they never had corrective action of any kind for these kids. I got repremanded for trying to stop it.
Autistic people are vary logical and systematic thinkers. But without data in the form of context a problem can't be resolved
I used to live across the street from a family who had a son with autism and when he had meltdowns, they would take him outside and put him in the car and just leave him there to scream it out. I understand feeling overwhelmed listening to someone melt down like that but come on, get some noise cancelling headphones and SHOW YOUR CHILD SOME DAMN COMPASSION. Shoving them away when they're crying is only going to instill shame in them anytime their emotions get too big to handle. It's what happens to me everytime.
Side note: I am SICK and TIRED of the term "attention seeking" AS IF HUMAN FUCKING BEINGS NEEDING ATTENTION IS A BAD THING. Why is it suddenly not important if someone "just wants attention" we're fucking lonely how else do you fix that??? What kind of attention do you think they want??
Oh my goodness that is absolutely genius!!!! I wish I would have heard this speech during the school year! I worked with a child who was born pre-maturely and has a brain injury from oxygen depravation. He was not only very inappropriate most of the time, but he was also very angry and would elope when I would try to get him to do his work. He was in Kindergarten last school year. I don't know if he will be at our school next year or at a different one we transport to for those who have severe behavior issues, but if I get to interact with him again, I will print something out about this to show him and tell him about his audience. I think it might make a big difference!
Similar thing with my brother. He kept making vile dead baby jokes. Those kinds of jokes are never funny, in any circumstance except maybe to cheer up a person who has that kind of humour and just had an ab*rtion. However, in pretty much any circumstance, it is not funny.
Any time he made a joke like it, I'd say "brother, that's not funny. Dead or dying babies is serious amd hurtful,". He eventually stopped. I think it was probably because he made that kind of joke in front of his father, who had lost a child when they were an infant, and set him straight.
Forcing or ignoring is never the way to handle behaviour, it just negatively reinforces it.
there are some instances when the waiting strategy is better and not saying anything for a little while a child is dysregulated can help. waiting after you set their expectations. you’re still listening and observing. sometimes talking too much can end up upsetting a child even more and they end up recycling or it ends with more kicking and hitting towards staff and unsafe behavior. sometimes the not talking does help them process their emotions better. It’s not necessarily planned ignoring like the video. And then de brief with the child after they are calm.
And when some kids get ignored, they shut down and bottle everything up. But as long as they quiet down its still a "success" 🙄
As a society, we also teach children, neurotypical or not, to shut down feelings that are deemed bad 😢 But we need all feelings to become a fully functioning adult. I'm not autistic but I am highly sensitive. I cried when I saw injustice, an animal being harmed, when I was ignored etc. Slowly I learned to suffocate my feelings and today I have a hard time crying and feeling something, even when I am alone.
We know too little about individuals to be taking a one size all procedural approach to really anything behavioral that needs addressing. Kaelynn demonstrates that she's seeing this more positive treatment of her student bring good outcomes.
My son has been diagnosed of autism spectrum since childhood and has battled with it all his life. But recently taking Dr Oyalo herbs have helped him get rid of it completely, his speech is vital and his social skill is perfect
Awesome more people need to know about this!!!
"We try to make friends. They display attention seeking behavior. ... We persevere. They perseverate."
-- Mayer Shevin, The Language of Us and Them
Doing the silent treatment might work on neurotypical kids but not autistic kids. Not reading social cues is one of the major traits of autism.
YES! Educated NOT Ostracized!
Thank you!
Wanted to listen to this one since I was scrolling to find something else you've spoken about, you've named at least lol. I really enjoy listening to your explanations 😊
Great points. I worked with low-functioning autistic and other developmentally disabled adults (I'm on the spectrum myself) for nearly ten years and we were trained to use Planned Ignore with a lot of the individuals in a variety of contexts. I never did fully flesh out in a nuanced way what I thought of it, but there were aspects of it, and behaviorism in general, that I strongly doubted and sometimes ignored when I could. I wasn't at liberty to rock the boat and openly disregard my training, nor am I a psychology or developmental disability expert by any means (my autistic special interest is childhood trauma and psychiatric disorders 😉) as my job was in the role of support staff and didn't require a degree.
Heres the thing: planned ignoring is easier than teaching kids which btw is the point of the school, so sadly borderline abuse is accepted and reworded to seem acceptable
I am an autism mom and a an EA and I do use planned ignoring. I do not ignore my kiddo, just the behavior. (And I do not ignore crying.) I ignore things like... shouting the word POOP!!!! in the hall.
And this is because I just cannot say 20 times a day that we use bathroom words in the bathroom.
Also, he is more likely to keep saying it if I give it attention. Instead I model saying things that we could say instead in the hall, and redirect him to change his shoes or whatever he was supposed to do.
There is a place for planned ignoring, if it is used thoughtfully, and in conjunction with an explanation and teaching alternate behavior.
Yes, that’s exactly right! This video is a 2 minute edit of a 9 minute clip…from a 15 minute section…in a 60 minute lecture. I explain the nuances in person, but people online simply won’t watch that long. But yeah, the nuances are very important!
@@Kaelynnism Thanks for replying! I really enjoy your content
I used this doc herbs for my son and now my son is completely free, his speaking and behavior is ok. His herbs is 100% working on ASD. I met Dr Oyalo on channel and I’m happy to share my experience about it
Wow, how terribly wonderful and interesting! So good. So, so good.
I don't like it when my parents ignore me as a form of punishment since it doesn't work for me at all. Sometimes I need to be allowed to get my words out and other times I need to be left alone and not ignored at all.
I work with kids as an autistic adult who is a licensed RBT, and planned ignoring was something we were told to do and I'm not the biggest fan of it. The thing in my experience as someone who received services in the past and someone currently providing services is a verbal redirect at the least and a conversation or even intensive programming at most involved. The thing is sometimes a child, teenager or patient may do something for attention and may be reinforced to do that thing more but in that case the best thing to do is verbal redirect or even try to find something positive to replace the behavior if that's possible. My biggest problem with behavior analysis is the way we try to remove behaviors because while it may be helpful short term you're not addressing the problem, that's why when I'm doing sessions, I still teach what the BCBA or OT want us to cover but I'm applying my own experiences and the experiences I've heard from other autistic people into my programming.
Because of silent treatment, I now don't trust anybody anymore, and have no one, because I asked constantly for help because I was often being sexually, verbally, emotionally abused, by my school colleagues and nobody gave a shit, mainly because I was a boy, and was constantly said to be lying to get attention, and a lot of other problems, and I become cold and apathetic more a grew up and feeling always alone more and more from fear of asking for help and telling people what happened and they use it against me as usual.
Crying is an indication of distress to be adressed, not just a behaviour that exists in a vacuum to annoy you, the main character of the universe.
Behaviorists are fucking nuts ISTG.
So well presented and explained! I love this
Please say more on strategies for responding to the need rather than the maladaptive behavior. I do my best as a teacher w ADHD, anxiety & depression, but I can always use more help best serving my kiddos.
The individual in question seems quite cultured but the meme actually goes "I slammed my penith in the car door". The lisp is integral part as the character saying it is no other than Daffy Duck himself. Absolute classic meme.