Eric Bischoff shoots on why AEW lacks story
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- Since 1984 every wrestling promoter has tried to best Vince McMahon and the World Wrestling Federation unsuccessfully… except one, Eric Bischoff. Eric beat Vince McMahon’s Monday Night RAW head-to-head in Monday Night Wars 83 consecutive times. 83 Weeks will take a deep dive into the highs and lows of Eric Bischoff’s unparalleled successes in the wrestling business.
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Great wrestling is fun, but to really be excited enough to watch it live, you have to really want to see something specific happen, whether it's someone winning or losing, debuting, or otherwise getting their comeuppance. Without the appeal of catharsis, all you can really do is appreciate athleticism, which doesn't set wrestling apart as well as a good story.
It's part of the problem with the booker only doing it on wrestling internet forums as his background experience. Most of those people ONLY think if the match will be "good". Absolutely no thinking about angles, stories, fan momentum, etc.
@@maxxdahl6062 and then that's even reflected on how they feel about the wrestlers. I've seen more than a few AEW hardcore fans say Penta should be AEW world champion. To me I think it's completely insane that they think someone wearing a mask and who can't speak good English should have the top title in your company, but it's because those fans don't really care about presentation or promo ability, only the "art" of wrestling. Conversely they don't think someone like MJF is any good because he's not flying all over the place in his matches.
Eric is absolutely right about people like Meltzer being AEW biased surrogates. I don’t think Meltzer gets a check from them either, I think it’s just because AEW caters to what he likes in wrestling (and is another reason why AEW is not seeing major growth, even with the additions to their roster).
Did it ever occur to you that maybe they aren’t interested in unrealistic, immediate exponential growth? Maybe even their pitch to the network included “hey we don’t anticipate doubling our audience within five years but there is a very loyal niche of fans that are starved for an alternative to WWE and if we give it to them, we can draw a certain level of consistent ratings that are higher than any other non-sport program you’ll put in that time slot and are demo-heavy so your advertisers will like that too…” I mean do networks cancel their shows if ratings don’t go up in three years, even if they draw one of the biggest ratings on the channel?
@@mikegeiler2347 No network in their right mind would take any of that bullshit serious lol. Also, the demo is not even regarded that highly anymore because younger people aren't watching television like that.
@@PatkaBoy831 any demo is regarded highly by the people advertising to it. And yes I think any network presented with an opportunity to add a show that will get better ratings than any other non sports programming they air, they’re going to be very interested. People act like AEW is a total disaster just because they haven’t doubled their audience since they started 🙄
What does it take to break through?
2:10 “It’s a commitment to story.”
They have plateaued
How do you build week-to-week engagement? Long term stories
4:30 There has been growth, incremental, not explosive
The middle of the story Carries the views
5:58 Scorpio Sky, William Regal, Jeff Hardy
They have storylines that aren’t great
8:02 100,000 viewer drop
8-10 is Prime-time
9:07 What happened?
10:16 Tony has smart people around him
They don’t have a winning formula
“They haven’t found their feet yet.”
“They’re always gonna be vulnerable”
They think long term storytelling means bringing up something from 6 months ago
@@robertzavala3407 lol or 18-24 months ago when it comes to Adam woke page and Kenny homOmega
What AEW is missing is that big storyline, that main event top star storyline that every fan or member of the audience waits for, looking at WWE it was Evolution with Dave Batista finally winning the championship belt and becoming the next breakout star, Stone Cold Steve Austin and Rock, Cm punk vs John Cena Mitb which had the Nexus storyline before that so it was a storyline that went on for months. And one of the best storylines for me is Undertaker vs Kane and Undertaker vs Hbk Wrestlemania which had one of the best buildups and payoffs. Crow Sting and NWO is what changed wrestling forever, it inspired the Attitude era
Right they have they the ppl to do it do ..hell sting vs Jericho that would be box office forsure
I couldn’t agree more with Eric on this. It’s true that the NWO did set WCW on fire but I would take it further and say that it was the initial story of Sting as the Crow vs the NWO that made a compelling story and had me excited to tune in every week!!!
People say AEW is good at long term storytelling. Long term storytelling isnt this guy lost a match and then like 5 months later he wins a match against the same guy. I think one of the main reason why I can't get into AEW is because they bring in all of these indie guys drop them in and expect everybody to know who they are. I would be more interested in these guys if they were more then oh this guy is going to have a match with this guy. There is one story that I was interested in which was the Punk vs MJF feud because there were promos and back and forth. It was something that I wanted to see what was going to happen with it every week. But AEW needs more of that.
I had the pleasure of growing up watching the attitude era, and when i think back now, the matches were just a chapter in the story. You'd follow the storyline, the promos etc and the match would then steer that story. It wasn't about the match itself, it was like watching a netflix binge and wanting to know what happens next.
They didn't have as many matches either because they had so many guys on the roster that it was mostly segments and then the matches were bigger because of it
@@erikaw7767 Similar to modern day UFC, back 10 years ago there were less fighters and more stars. PPV's were spread out so each one felt big.
Now it feels like none stop matches, events etc and its boring
I think part of the reason it's like that is because the internet "smarks" have started to have way too much influence on what and who gets pushed. IMO, the wrestling business is entertainment first. If a person isn't entertaining, they shouldn't be out there, and way too many guys now just aren't all that entertaining. As much as people will hate me for saying this, the business needs more Kevin Nash types and less Dean Malenko types. Get some guys in there who can keep the casual audience entertained. Right now, there are too many atheletes and not enough actors.
@@seanwilliams7655 Exactly. Modern wrestling need more guys who fills up arenas because of their larger than life character and prescence. Rather than guys who will have great In-Ring matches.
@@kevinlee9929 I love a great in ring match. However, I'd rather have a match between two guys who are average workers with the ability to sell me on the story vs. two guys who are great workers but have the charisma of off white paint.
I would add that wrestling these days has very few "larger-than-life" eccentric characters that appeal to a wider audience. The general public doesn't care about 5-star matches by some fit-looking guys. They care about watching unique personalities doing unpredictable things, and being absolutely committed to it (i.e.; Randy Savage, Stone Cold, Hulk Hogan, Mankind, Undertaker, Jake Roberts, even Shawn Michaels).
Neither company is going to get over the hump with half the roster looking and acting similar to each other, all trying to look like some bad-ass CrossFit instructor.
It’s people like cm punk who brainwashed people to think nothing but ring work matters
pretty well summed up. Factions are really bad these days too.
🎯
wrestlers went from looking AMAZING to … o well he looks healthy i guess
I find with AEW they don’t tell a linear story …
Sometimes a match or a promo seems out of place where it should have been placed ..
I think it was Jericho V MJF the feud started off with the “Blood & Guts” match when it should have been the end ..
Yeah your point is correct. I think with the instance of blood & guts they probably just wanted to get it over with as soon as possible and looked at which factions were viable.
They started with a War Games and ended the feud with regular singles matches among group members.
Inner Circle should have broken up, and Pinnacle should have been the top super heel faction. And what has been Pinnacle done since then? Absolutely nothing.
Pockets beat Adam Cole and a week later Cole is feuding for the title. Then when he loses he says “it was a fluke. I’ll fight you in a 6 MAN TAG to prove it was”. If you think anyone new to the show that has half a brain would think that they are interested in this then you’re dead wrong. It’s parody wrestling
My main problem with AEW is they hardly build up PPVs. They normally announce matches a couple of weeks before. Half the time I dont even know the full card.
The one thing AEW does (WWE does it too but not as much) is if there’s a “blood feud” and the wrestlers are very athletic, who is gonna believe that hated rivals are gonna put on a gymnastics show no not just make it look like a real fight? That’s what kills me
I think the problem with wrestling in general is that, unlike 15 or more years ago, now EVERYBODY knows the whole thing is 100% BS. How can you sell to your audience a good storyline when the audience knows the feud is fake and the wrestlers are acting?
AEW's had storylines that have ran for well over a year, however it seems that the diehards who follow the indies religiously are the only ones who see all parts to it. Most casual fans don't watch Being The Elite, follow the indies or hang on every social media post, however AEW has used all of those avenues to tell their storylines. I think the better question would be, 'how does AEW appeal to the masses, and can they still retain some of their adaptability in doing so?'.
Being the elite is stupid i probably watched 10 episodes dont think its funny or good. Not my cup of tea and Im not a fan of the indy style of wrestling. Lets do all these high impact moves and no sell everything and do dives every 2 mins
Well said.
@@joehenry709 I agree. I tried watching a few when AEW first started and some were pretty funny, but after those first few they’ve been god awful.
I agree that it's not everyone's cup of tea. I couldn't possibly follow all of that stuff even if I wanted to, but I do think it shows that they're telling long term stories across multiple platforms, even if they're not generating views to the television product.
I think alot of the podcast people are also watching clips of things and skimming thru the shows. AEW operates more like a spinoff show. Theres information that predates the casual fan.
AEW needs 1 or 2 main event story threads running through the whole show, more instant replays, and more recaps.
Fuck that this aint wwe thats boring
1 they do and 2 no they fucking dont
If I was TK I would’ve tried to sign Eric as consult just to hear his ideas about the whole product to make it better. Man knows his shit and is still the only one to take it to Vince
Cornette has been telling them for 3YEARS STRAIGHT what they need to do,week by week and Tony still wont listen. Folks were calling Corny a hater but the truth is he’s always hated Vince McMahon’s style of Wrestling and worked to help anybody overturn it and yet the AEW diehards and locker room chose to cry over spilled milk. Guys like Bischoff,Cornette,JR, these guys arent getting any younger and they’re all tryna help AEW be the best it can be and they wont listen. I even stopped listening to Jim for a month because I wanted them to do well and felt he was being harsh but everytime I try to watch it,its so amateur and so just….cartoony. And yes the WWE is the Mecca of Cartoon Wrestling but one thing you cant say about them is that their production or pushed talent is Amateur. An amateur or low budget presentation in wrestling is the kiss of death.
I'm a screenwriter, and I 100% agree w/Eric on story. The most important question that keeps any good story together is "why?" I love Punk arriving, Bryan, Harry's, etc. It's cool for sure. But if you intro a new character, why are they here? What's the motivation? Then the next level is.. "why should you care" about the motivation. Punk shows up and the "why" was "I want to wrestle"
Okay.
@Mister Brash No I'm a filmmaker that loves wrestling with no interest in writing for wrestling. But good story is good story no matter the platform or vehicle. I'm also 42 and remember when there were three promotions delivering compelling stories every week.
If Tony Khan stops trying to please Dave Meltzer and that fanbase - they will grow much faster.
Facts. They keep wanting to please the audience.
I don’t know that our society appreciates anymore a good storyline. Their attention is all over the place.
AEW leaders don't get the concept of "getting it" As in getting wrestling. To them its just do what they have seen on wrestling 20 years without the context or buildup or the crowd control to illicit the responses received 20 years ago. To them its just "do it cause someone did it before" There is a huge difference in a "pop" and an ovation. Everyone can get a pop, but they have seen reactions happening over and over that the idea ends there. "If they get a pop they are over"...not the case. To me AEW will never be what it wants to be until they start learning what wrestling actually is and not what they think it is.
I think AEW is exactly what it wants to be which is sort of where the issue lies. Tony is making the show for himself. And I mean its his money so all the power to him.
@@BigmanDogs the problem is just like Dixie and TNA, except Khan has his own money to blow….but for how long?
One of the greatest rosters in the history of wrestling?
I have been watching wrestling for almost 30 yrs. the reason I tune in now is more out of habit, I legit watch most of it in fast fwd cuz I don’t care about what’s happening. I like a good match but Stonecold beer truck is far more memorable then Okada vs Omega.
i am 43 and been watching since i was 4 until about 4 or 5 years ago I just can't watch it.
Same here, been watching constantly since 1986 and feel almost like I'm dreading it as I watch each show! I watch all WWE and AEW content and am usually relieved when it's over. I'm usually positive and have been to over 100 live events in my lifetime including a couple Wrestlemanias! I enjoy these chats about the old days the most of all. I guess at 44 I'm pretty much a nostalgic old man lol
did you watch the CM Punk vs MJF story?
If people aren’t watching AEW yet, there’s a reason for it. There’s bo talent or story they’re interested in. CM Punk didn’t have a huge impact because it’s a talent non watchers wanted to see but in a story no one cared about. Non watchers of AEW never cared about the show before so why would Punk change that by just being another guy? It takes the right acquisition and right story as WCW proved
the talent is just as good as wwe just less writers and too much creative freedom for the talent... also you're insane if you don't think CM punk had an impact on AEW since CM punk joined die hard wrestling fans have seemed to enjoy AEW over wwe... AEW just has a difficult time promoting their product and getting casuals to watch them.
And yet CM Punk vs MJF was an absorbing storyline everyone was raving about. At least come up with a valid criticism of things. And there's a lot of valid things to rag ok AEW over.
@@AxeDharme nobody saw it but smarks
@@KnucklesWTD that's wrestling in general then lmao. Nobody apart from smarks watches it.
The general public doesn't give a fuck about wrestling in 2022.
@@AxeDharme And ratings were awful even in Punks hometown of Chicago for the big tv match. AEW performers too have pushed away many with their comments on other things that makes people less than willing to watch.
Keys to storytelling
Beginning,middle, end
Antagonist vs protagonist (who are they, what do they want, what happens if they don't get it)
Conflict/resolution
All Debut wrestling
It's a pattern, guy debuts the marks go nuts claim it's a game changer. Then the ratings stay the same or drop. Instead of constant new people make me care about the ones you have
Fair enough...but for one RAW is the lower rated of WWE two shows,and with the ongoing drop they still double AEW viewership...& Smackdown from what I hear,doubles it & then some...I believe some weeks you might even see Smackdown triple it. Like 800,000 to 2.4 million. At this rate even if it continues,it's gonna take a lot of years to be tied,& that'd be just as much due to WWE dropping as AEW growing. I absolutely am not for WWE,& I'd like to see AEW do good things...but they r off the mark and to me that's undebatable they're off the mark
@Mister Brash debate a criticism of AEW WITHOUT mentioning wwe.
I never mentioned them at all.
@Mister Brash The entire wrestling industry is a sinking ship my friend.
@Mister Brash You’ve already said that in this exact post. You’re focusing on incremental views which is only one piece of the puzzle. What are revenues looking like for both companies? Pretty sure that WWE just had their most profitable year ever and that was coming out of a pandemic with no audience for half a year.
That being said, I stand by my statement. Pro Wrestling is a dying industry and will eventually be entirely niche. There’s too many other forms of entertainment at peoples fingertips these days and wrestling as a whole will never spark a huge mainstream interest like it did in the 80’s and 90’s.
The shows are lopsided in terms of pacing. Moxley,Punk, and Danielson are in the beginning of the show or near it. No one outside a f4w forum knows who wheeler shuda or thunder Rosa are, but yet they're in main events of their flagship show. Not a storyline, not a great angle.... But mid carders against mid carders.
Imagine in 1996 if Hulk Hogan and Sting were teaming up and trying to recruit Juventud and this was in the first 45 minutes. Imagine if the main event of nitro that same night was konnan vs dean malenko. The ratings would've plummeted.
No one cares about Britt Baker, Page, Cole or Guevara. They're not main event players. Maybe one day. People care about Moxley, punk, Danielson, MJF...these are people who have to be closing these shows. Book MJF as the top heel champion and start building interest in your product.
@Mister Brash Not every damn raw though. If I have to see Sammy or Britt or freakin generic NXT wrestler number 743 In the main event again I'm gonna hurl. I want to see a big storyline or something maybe include them with the stars..something.
Put Sammy on a 3 v 3 with Moxley or Punk. But the point is when I finish watching the show I want to wonder what is gonna happen next week. Not praise workrate or whatever.
It lacks story because Tony was convinced wrestling is all that matters and the number of people watching prove that is not all that matters. It appeals to a fraction of a fraction of the audience to pick from. AEW will never blow up the way they are going.
and now, TK has to double and triple down because he's ensconced in that diehard base. if he starts to take steps towards more entertainment he'll be accused of trying to be WWE, when in reality a successful wrestling show has to be more entertainment to appeal to a larger base. It's on TV for goodness sakes, that's why we're tuning in.
It’s almost as if this question is being asked ignoring the templates that WWF and even Nitro gave in the 80s and 90s. In my option it’s due to a subset of ultra wrestling fans that never cared as much for character and story and instead want a show that looks like a real prize fight. That approach has never worked to bring the masses to pro wrestling.
there's a lot of frustrating issues with AEW. First, they need better time management for their shows. This is one of their biggest weaknesses. Tony Khan has a bad habit of trying to feature too many people on TV as possible. A lot of the people he tries to put on really aren't TV ready. An example is when Bryan Danielson and Jon Moxley took on JD Drake and some green haired green guy. It looked really bad. It took me back to the job squash matches in the early 90s. But it was worse because the WWF in those days utilized the job/squash matches to market their superstars for PPV or house shows; if you really wanted to see something, you had to pay for it. Still, those matches were boring and there was nothing compelling in them, which is why Nitro took off since WCW would have more competitive matches on TV with more established people.
But going back to the time mismanagement aspect, Rampage and Dynamite are too densely packed. You have isolated compartments of segments with no common theme nor build. Your best segment tends to come first. An example is that Bryan Danielson vs Adam Page match. Yes, part of the reason they put it first was to allow the entire 60 minutes and the fact that they probably did not want to expose that it would be 60 minutes. But A) if you wanted to convey that this would be a treat and you needed a surprise ending that people should be compelled to watch, why not market it better? B) It left the rest of the card dry because you already saw your main event.
I know Tony Khan is using Vince McMahon's old strategy from the Saturday Night Main event days. However, those Saturday Night Main events were very late and happened after SNL so he needed to capture the audience's attention quickly in getting that lead in from SNL by featuring guys like Hulk Hogan in the 1st or 2nd segments. And even then the best part of those programs never were the first parts.
Next, those Dark shows, while having a purpose during the pandemic, serve no purpose now with indy promotions making a come back. He either needs to revitalize the purpose of those Dark shows to get the lower card aspects of his talent that can't get on TV to have more compelling matches against each other rather than some indy schlub to make those shows more meaningful, or straight out ditch them and try to obtain a 2nd hour to Rampage and split the TV shootings up so that Dynamite does not burn out the audience for Rampage.
In addition, he needs to do what I call "build up then left." What that means is that he needs to build up in the card to make the most compelling aspects of his show occur last to get the audience to watch the whole thing and then create a hook for his next program or the following week rather than leave things with giant week-to-week gaps. When Nitro was getting hot, there were three important aspects to the format: 1) the hot opening cruiserweight match (the appetizer); 2) start of hour 2 where the big developments/angels would start being featured to lead towards the last 10 minutes; 3) the last 10 minutes that had the big angle/development with a question to compel people to want to watch the following week.
Also, Tony Khan should not try to feature an "angle" in every match. Each match seems to have a run in, an after birth beat down or an interruption. Same with their interview segments. After a while, you no longer care because everyone eventually gets one of these, whether you want it or not. Like why does Leyla Hirsch need to use a chair in a backstage segment to turn heel? Why is she turning heel? Does she need to turn heel? Will it improve ratings? The quick answer is: no. Because her segment feels like all the others except even less special.
And he needs something better than just have people do the aforementioned run-ins, interruptions, beat downs, etc. When the NWO did it, it felt like something because they were "trying to take over." There was a purpose behind them in being renegades, instilling fear into the rest of the WCW roster and making a statement by acting like thugs. The constant beat downs in AEW make me feel de-sensitized and make me believe that Tony Khan needs to invest in security (kayfabe) and a better HR department. I mean in the best case scenario, this is a running gag without laughs. In the worst case scenario, Tony Khan wants to have the atmosphere of those NWO run ins but lacks the purpose outside of chaos for chaos' sake.
Finally, Tony Khan wants these "dream" matches and focuses on the wrestling, which is partly good because that should be the focus. But I think his vision of wrestling is the spots as the critical aspect and that people will watch for the trainwreck action rather than the emotional catharsis that is the result of a spot when a proper babyface inflicts damage upon a proper heel. And part of the problem is probably with the modern generation of wrestlers themselves because of the emphasis on the crazy moves as opposed to the presentation to make people care about them.
Lance Storm said something quite profound a while back on modern wrestling vs older wrestling. Modern wrestling puts all the emphasis on the spots and it's like the Meltzer criteria of rating a match in terms of the formula of moves per second in determining how many stars he'll assign a match. Older wrestling emphasized the emotion. One of my favorite examples is when Nikita Koloff turned babyface and teamed with Dusty Rhodes for the first time in facing the Horsemen of JJ Dillon and Ole Anderson. The match was very short but everything done was symbolic. Dusty came out first into the cage, quickly became overwhelmed while the crowd cheered on a bit shocked as Nikita accompanied Dusty. There's a slight moment of hesitation by Nikita and in that moment we do not know where Nikita's loyalties truly lie. But the second he comes to Dusty's aid, the crowd is unglued. JJ is pounded, Ole is tossed out of the ring with Nikita covering the exit then they double team JJ to humiliate the Horsemen and as Dusty makes the cover, Nikita stands like the Russian protector over his new ally. It's very powerful yet simple body language that can convey a lot without doing much. We cheered Nikita because of how we respected him so much and feared him especially after that great series against Magnum and how now he would take up for Magnum. All that story that was built up, the characters, what really happened to Magnum, how the Horsemen were the ultimate heels at that time, the impeccable and brilliant turn of Nikita during the Cold War era that was slowly coming to an end, etc. Go back and listen to that crowd.
Tony Khan can get pops for his people because he'll get the people he wants. But it's pretty much a one shot deal for a lot of cases because the booking is mostly atrocious unless the individual talent (like Punk) know how to keep themselves over. They do understand they need new stars, which was a major criticism of WCW at that time, but AEW hasn't really been able to create mega super stars like their own Goldberg. Even someone like Jade Cargill feels very artificial in terms of how they book her like Goldberg without understanding that Goldberg was connecting with the crowd to get a long term push towards the top. It didn't happen over night.
Bottom line is that Tony needs to look from the outside rather than being the inside fan that can get his way because of the money he has.
Agreed. Look at how the Bloodline-Usos storyline has captivated everyone. It brought me back to WWE & I don't even like watching WWE
The Tribal Chief story has grown the audience for WWE the last year...BUT nothing else has. Its the biggest and only true quality story going on right now in all of pro wrestling. The closest AEW have come for me to a bonafide must see story was Omega being the belt collector and raiding Impact and AAA...but that fizzled because they didnt invest in Impact enough.
AEW has its own built in story line just waiting to be used. You got Tony Kahn with his love of ex WWE stars and Kenny Omega and the Bucks with the AEW originals. Yes similar to the WCW NWO deal except they can use real life with them all being co owners and the owner. That story could take a whole year if they wanted or more.
There has to be an omnipresent threat that something unexpected, can’t miss, can happen at any time, in any realm. And right now, there’s nothing like that. The fans KNOW they’re going to get good matches. But that only takes a wrestling show to a certain point. They’re at that point. Now they need to do things to take it beyond a wrestling show, to a television event.
That's the main problem with AEW, they don't know how to tell a story. It's what has kept WWE on top for many years. Without it you just got a bunch of wrestlers fighting each other for no apparent reason.
I'll take "because Tony literally admits to choosing matches using Microsoft Excel, and claims that flipping the axis was a breakthrough for his booking, for 500 please Alex"
I wish I was making that up.
He is right there is no good story lines in wrestling not just AEW but also in WWE and other promotions
@Mister Brash Wardlows promo was faking dogshite :DD.
Roman and Brock begs to differ and Becky vs Bianca
@Mister Brash How long was the story line it was short look at story line 20 plus years ago they had a build up for 6 months or longer not a flash in the pan rivalry
@@vegetalover9297 Brock and Reigns is being recycled over and over again because Vincent just has a hard on for those two hell they should had a build for a Lashley vs Brock or Reigns vs Lashley for Wrestle Mania no they give you Lesner vs Reigns for the hundredth time
@@vegetalover9297 Becky vs Bianca will be flash in the pan too after Wrestle Mania that feud will be over .
Let’s be real. Daniel Bryant, Jericho, CM Punk, Omega, MOX, MJF and whoever isn’t Hogan, Savage, Sting, Lex Luger, Hall or Nash etc. TBH all those AEW ppl I named outside of Punk are boring! All AEW care about is being on “great matches”. That’s not what us old school fans wanna see. I wanna see great storylines, great promos then a good match is 3rd to me. Why is Hogan vs Warrior at WM 6 still big to this day? Because of the story behide it
Punk is boring too dude is an washed up old man a decade out his prime
AEW doesn't put the time in to make the show feel like it has the feuds needed to wanna tune in.
Adam Page as world champion has been bad like the ratings have been under a million more with him as champion than any other guy at this point. Adam pushed fans away by going political with Glen Jacob's to the whole outfit being a rainbow in FL against a bill that over 75 percent of residents supported on and he didn't understand the true direction of such. That sort of stuff will make fans not want to watch as they want a wrestling show to forget about world issues not be reminded of them every couple of minutes. Also going to cities that did the vaccine mandates was wrong as it pushed discrimination. Imagine since HIV is on the rise especially according to the Cleveland Mayo Clinc, its been gay men sexual transmission, imagine enforcing a HIV vaccine or certain meds to enter since some once you start its nearly impossible to get off of them. That would horrible but fans would say no to that so why is okay to push a vaccine mandate plus why all the exemptions for political folks and celebrities? Same with masks but going to those places sent the message of if you don't think like us then we don't want you and that hurt fan support massively it even did get the UFC after their NYC show last November.
Now Adam hurts the product but AEW struggles with long term feuds that have a successful arc to them. There have been more duds then home runs with that too. Feuds just end randomly and you feel cheated like the end to Moxley vs Jericho or how MJF vs. Cody felt flat at the end. Its something where maybe a Kevin Sullivan or Kevin Nash could come in and throw some ideas out there.
The roster is deep but it seems like a clear direction is missing. AEW doing well helps wrestling and it would be great to see but when you struggle to get a million fans to watch every week where then something is seriously wrong. A show with Chris Jericho to Jon Moxley and etc shouldn't be under 1 million viewers.
Realistically AEW has to improve on their endings for feuds. Omega vs. Page was very well done but others haven't been ans AEW is seen as a spot fest by many old school fans. That is an image they need to work on getting rid of too but idk I think it is gonna take 4 or 5 people with incredible wrestling insight to come in and really right the ship to get AEW where it should be at ratings wise on TBS which the norm for shows at that time slot is 1.5 million fans.
What does politics has to do with crappy ratings ,it's up to Tony Kahn to get people's attention with the product
Adam Page going after Kane could have been good for ratings! If he did a promo about that exchange on the next AEW show after it would have grabbed a lot of attention and that could have driven interest in the show
Or maybe not. This is Eric Bischoff's controversy creates cash paradigm, which we have seen flop and also win at different times. I'm thinking Adam would have not been comfortable using that stuff to make him more famous. There's also the thing that going this direction with the company takes attention away from the wrestling, and that's part of how AEW sells themselves as the WWE alternative
You just seem to be crying that no media wants to cater to your wacko political beliefs. You would have been super happy about Page being political if he agreed with you. I see conservatives stan random c-list celebrities if they end up being conservative. The UFC leadership is openly conservative and it isn't hurting their business at all.
@@BigmanDogs especially when White raise the UFC ppv prices up and still pay his fighters bad as school teachers
Long ass paragraph for no fucking reason bringing politics into this like wtf stfu bruh
AEW rushes everything they don’t set the table or take time to explain things! Totally accurate on why AEW hasn’t explored today society needs tto go back early days and understand what story telling is all about!
Hey I like Adam Page. But the title is the problem. The crazy thing is… I don’t know who to put it on either. Lol
It's simple, storyline amd characters make wrestling. NWO was an angle! It didn't catch on because word spread about their 5 star 45 min matches, it's because it was a new fresh story. Make a modern, new hot angle that goes on for a while to catch fire.
Its run by a rich kid with 0 experience in the actual industry, of course its not gonna have story.
AEW is still missing that one big superstar; like Hulk Hogan, John Cena, Stone Cold, The Rock, etc.
Even a great match becomes forgettable without having a great, well written story line to create stakes, tension, and investment.
Stories matter. I really feel for these aew guys. Theyre giving their bodies up weekly for brief moments of “good wrestling”. If they had compelling stories it would take so much stress off these wrestlers
Inspite of their billions of dollars, inspite of their stack roster, inspite of the 90% of Wrestling journals being spokesperson of AEW, still they can't draw and they probably will never do.
Clownass CZW lite with people blading theirselves after 90 seconds and Phillip Brooks crying about his former company he didnt mind working for a lot of years.
If I recall from Aptermags at the time The Artist Also Known As Phil Brooks cried about ROH in openly derisive Promos WHILE he worked for the Company!😂🎤🤼♂️B.W.
Imagine Ted Turner buying WCW and becoming Booker people would’ve been wanting his head on a stick why do we let this privileged nerd who has money? Because he was on the message boards and read the observer ???
The storytelling is the best success for any pro wrestling company
Because they are too busy trying to be woke and hip for a niche. They care more about their ESG ratings rather than television ratings.
Story takes time and creativity, and Tony Khan and his puppets are too lazy to actually do any hard work.
Reminds me of WCW late 90s and TNA around 2010. They both had stacked rosters, but without good storylines, most people other than hardcore fans are going to watch the product. WCW in the mid 90s and WWE in the late 90s early 2000s drew in viewers who normally would not watch wrestling due to great storylines/promos.
@Mister Brash AEW has a problem with the build up to its story line to make a great rivalry yes MJF and Punk is good but it's not going to be a long feud it been going on since maybe January but it will end at double or nothing ppv .
Not everything in AEW has been gold by any means, but I don't know how you can actually sit down and watch the MJF/Punk/Wardlow or Danielson/Mox/Regal sagas and come to the conclusion that AEW just doesn't have any good storytelling at all. I think if Bischoff had to defend his own booking against either of those two he'd have to rely totally on the popularity contest argument, ie. there were just that many more people tuning in to wrestling back in his day, so that technically makes his stuff more over I guess. But that's belying the fact that there are vastly more entertainment options these days and as a result there will probably never be 5M eyeballs on a weekly wrestling show ever again, no matter how good it is.
never watched one damn show of that promotion. I'm so sure they lack good storylines. Eric bischoff knows everything what goes on. I believe him
They have some good storylines but Bischoff is right that most feuds especially lower card ones are not given the proper time outside the ring.
😂 best storylines going on in wrestling now
I agree that AEW needs do a MUCH better job at telling stories but it’s not quite fair to single them out. All of the promotions in the US struggle with storytelling
Aew bores me... just seems like their brand is flips, dives and super kicks... I genuinely do not care about 99.9% of their roster Or the character development . There's also an element of irony with it that's just to overboard. They make their product look very small in all the wrong ways.
You don't need a BIG story. You need an EPISODIC story. It's not true of WWE. They are episodic. That's why they are mainstream.
Wrestling is like a cake. The Wrestling is the sponge cake. It's the core. But even the best cake without frosting will be lacking. The frosting is the story. It holds the cake together and adds the flavor. AEW has the issue of being way too light on the frosting. And they DO have good stories. I wanna see Wardlow beat MJF to a pulp because of the story. But so much else just feels weak.
Great points made here by Eric.
The reality is the Monday night wars, The attitude era and things like ECW killed wrestling, things got pushed to such an extreme and the quest for a quick hit and cheap pop means that nothing is new anymore, and those days can’t be topped.
Everyone talks about the old days but the only way wrestling actually gets better is a totally new vision that is so different I can’t even fathom what it would look like and that I’m afraid will never happen.
I know he's not interested in doing it and I think I commented this before on other videos but the way things are going in aew right now TK has to step aside and have someone with experience like Eric run the shows. TK can still find the money it's his company but he really needs some competent help seriously bad. I feel like they are getting ready to implode or something.
They’re doing decently well. I don’t see them getting drastically more viewers. Wrestling is so unpopular now, no one will care regardless of the quality of the product except wrestling fans.
It’s still more popular than some believe nobody just wants to watch this for hours
Not one wrestling show has hit over 3 million viewers in a very long time. Pro wrestling had 2020 and to many it went woke and fans left. They haven't returned and viewership is still low heck AEW is struggling to get 1 million viewers when other TBS shows at that time average 1.5 million so its on the business itself not the networks. Wrestling pushed fans away and they're not coming back.
@@kylebarnett7566 People will still buy games and merch for WWE anyway
@@KnucklesWTD You are right on that one. The ones that are loyal will fork over the money and such but I personally am wondering about the sales for the kids. That's who will be the next wave of fans so I am curious to see if they're wearing the gear like kids were 10 or 15 years ago.
Wwe is extremely popular
Tyrus is the man on the Gutfeld Show.
#Gutfield cancel his ass!
@@larrystilltheeman39 he's the number one rated late night host
Somehow AEW makes a fake sport even faker
I don't think aew lacks story, they lack the patience of letting a story grow naturally in the infancy stages and later grow or play out. Aew needs another voice(s) in creative to help or even practice some restraint in terms of booking. The MJF CM Punk booking was masterful, but the Penta Oscuro character change so far has been shit. Gotta see consistency in story telling because they can obviously hit, but they can surely miss which is maddening.
It’s an indie fed of course nothing matters but”real wrestling”
Isn’t the WWE Tribal Chief storyline spanning almost 2 years now the exact type of story Bischoff thinks is lacking? It’s an overarching story that has spanned multiple characters, rivalries, and layers.
eh, but it doesn't seem to follow any real story arc. An arc has a beginning, a climax and a resolution. What's the climax? Where's the resolution? There's none of those in sight, they just keep making up new things for RR every couple of months. Also if he never loses is that really a story? A heel *has* to lose. It just seems like they're writing it as they go along, it's more like a runaway train without any brakes than a story arc.
@@Jukeboxster he’s not going to be champion forever, people claim they want long term stories then never have the patience to see them through.
@@cbh49er he's been Universal champion for 639 days and counting. To me it doesn't seem like a long term story, it just seems like they don't know what they want to do next. Can you honestly say that on August 30, 2020 that you think their plan was for RR to be champion for this long and they have an end date in sight?
@@Jukeboxster probably not but what their initial idea was and what it has become are two different things. Bischoff never even had an end in mind for the nWo and clearly not even the Sting/Hogan storyline but that doesn’t change what they were. Thus isn’t a comic book where you can manipulate everything how you want, they’re dealing with real people who have real injuries, real issues, there’s only so much realistic long term booking you can do in wrestling. The point is Smackdown has had an overarching theme for two years now and a clear central story.
@@cbh49er Well we can call anything a story but that doesn't mean it's calibrated in a way to build to a climax and then a resolution in a way that is compelling to the average viewer. But hey I'm not saying that everything has to be done the same way either, I'm sure some people love what WWE is doing with RR (as you seem to). Also I don't think Eric is saying he did everything right. The NWO was the same thing I described, it just seemed to be going forward with no discernable trajectory towards a climax or a resolution. I think the classic story arc is what appeals to the largest segment of people, that's all. That's why most movies are only 90 minutes long.
iMO Jungle boy sure..... has a future but I've changed the channel while he's on. TOO much push for Dino and Jungle boy. They need to put other peeps on AEW
THIS VIDEO DIDNT AGE WELL FOR CONRAD
AEW (Tony Khan) seems to be booked like a vaudeville show -- each match a different act.
Eazy E is 100% right here.
The shows are great ? That the disconnect I’m
Talking about it’s great to a certain audience and that only. To us regular ppl it’s not great not even close. Stop D riding so damn much con rad damn. Clearly what there doing isn’t growing the audience and Eric is rite they can’t tell stories
You need to have a balance though, WWE tries to rely on way too much story and not enough wrestling. AEW is the opposite.
Who are these two?
Why are they fighting?
Why should I care?
Months later they still struggle
They’re telling stories, but they are lacking big time, in telling them well. Most of them are very vague and inconsistent.
Bischoff got Hogan, Nash, Hall.. dude.. Cm Punk and Daniel Bryan are NOWHERE NEAR ON THEIR LEVEL! NOWHERE!! They had size and charisma and Hogan was movie star and headlined Wrestlemania's multiple times. Punk and Bryan are scrubs, get over it.
cm punk and Daniel Bryan are arguably the 2 best in the business and I'd take them over washed hogan and the NWO
@@xKillZone99 no they aren't. Kenny omega is better than them both. AJ styles is the best. Randy Orton. Are you kidding me?
Punk and Bryan were ratings killers who killed WWE more than anyone. 90% of their fans were smarks and hipsters
@@KnucklesWTD yet the last time wwe didn't dropped at year over year viewership was back in 2013, when punk and bryan was at the top of the card, how does that make sense?
Hangman Pages entire story arc has been exceptional storytelling. It’s included several characters (The Elite, Brodie Lee, Dark Order, FTR), with multiple twists and turns. It’s still going today and they’re 3 years in. It might not be the wrestlers some prefer they tell the story with, but that’s a saga that’s been going on for the entire time AEWs been in existence. Everything has made sense and progressed at a good pace. Reminds me of Sting vs nWo . Not as successful obv, but layered storytelling that wasn’t just rematch rematch rematch.
I want to agree with you, but one of the major problems that current wrestling runs into ( AEW and WWE) is that it feels like these wrestlers or entertainers stay static and never develop much past their experiences. It wouldn't be surprising if Adam Page is going to have the same angle two years from now instead of evolving as a character.
Take Triple H or Rock, or Edge during their first five years in the business. Triple H went from a ass kiss support man to leader of d generation X until he started to take himself and his career seriously and started to rage against everyone who slighted him years back and who manipulated and schemed his way to becoming the top man and then when he was dethroned he went on to think highly of his experiences and built a group of rookies to defend his dominance eventually starting those rookies into HOF careers of their own. We can see clear evolutions of his character from year to year.
With some AEW or WWE storylines today we could literally watch in any order and it wouldn't matter.
but it dont
People just don't care
Wardlow MJF Punk storyline was/is amazing. The Hangman arc with Kenny over a year delivered. The Bryan and Mox w Regal storyline is coming of age. Many more examples like the recent Thunder Rosa payoff.
WWE has beeen around for decades, AEW in year 3. Give it time. Comparing the 2 is apples and oranges. One has 5 hours a week with monthly PPVs, the other has 4 PPVs with 3 hours a week.
WWE went from 11 million to 2 million, but some are knocking AEW for not growing over a million. The viewers that AEW have are part of the 9 million who left years ago.
Not saying AEW can't improve (it should) but instead of criticizing, go try and help them. Now some want to open their mouths and mention Cody should go back to WWE like they forgot his Stardust run and why he left in the 1st place. SMH
WCW may not have known how to pay off most angles in a good way, but they sure knew how to build them at their peak. Yeah that seems to be AEW's biggest problem, it's appealing too much to an audience that'll never grow enough or be big enough to give them the success level they need. It's great you have great matches, but if there's not enough context and reason it's happening who cares? WWE has their own major problems too. But most of the time there's context and reason for their matches, even if it's pathetically lame and lazy.
AEW sucks man. I try. But it just sucks.
Great minds think alike Hi5🙌 Ez-E
Here's something simple... How about flip the script... Have the AEW originals form a super heel stable and go after all of the beloved former wwe wrestlers... you know, make them pay for being a part of Vince's monopoly... and it could even be a heel super group that is cheered... I mean its kind of naturally why AEW was formed... now all of a sudden they actually have these coveted former wwe wrestlers... the difference between the nwo vs wcw is that these current guys can put on really good matches too....
That's actually pretty good idea.....
At least its something new......
Also they really gotta come up with good storytelling, they got to make it as real as possible
Tony's a bad booker! The shows are booked inconsistently. Punk and MJF storyline was serious, emotional and the fight was violent and that's on the same show with silly shit. Wrestlers come in and out without explanation. He books for the fans that's already there. Conrad is such a AEW mark. It's laughable to say they have a great roster. They might have the most athletic roster ever but not as pro wrestlers.
Wrestling hasn't been cool for 20 yrs
8:54
Cmon Eze E in you’re TNA WCW regime some stories did not workout or made sense 😡
Punk vs MJF?
AEW unfortunately has become formulaic
To Conrad’s point…lets use Scorpio Sky for example. What has he done in the last 6 months that remotely makes me engaged and invested in him winning the title? When AEW first started,Scorpio Sky,Pac and Cody were why I even gave it a chance but Sky has had one major program in the middle of last yr when him and Page did the job for Sting and Darby,ever since then he’s sat in the skybox with Dan Lambert and done absolutely nothing. And look,as a Black guy I wanna see him do well because imo he has an old school Intercontinental champ feel but he already lacks charisma so what does Tony do…buries him in bad booking,never lets the audience gain momentum in him actually having a series of wins and just putting a belt on him based on their fictitious stats. There was no story behind Scorpio Sky whatsoever and that sucks because the guy is super talented but the booking of this promotion is atrocious and does these guys no favors.
AEW is bad and I'd rather watch reruns of Cheers
If you notice the only people talking bad about AEW are ex WWE promoters or guys Tony Khan doesn't want to hire.
Did you see the story of Hangman Adam Page to win the title? It was a story of two years and probably one of the greatest stories in pro wrestling ever in the way that was executed.
Ever? No way lol
@Mister Brash I’m going to say John cena, CM punk, and Daniel Bryan’s to start with would have something to say differently with that comment!
Lame
Yeah and it has resulted in a piss poor curtain jerker of a Champion who has Zero Charisma
Yea bro I agree! Adam Paige is a superstar!!
this was just embarrassing on Eric's part like a year ago I would agree but the story telling on recent AEW shows is what actually got my attention from them, I went from not caring about AEW to Now wanting to watch each week to find out what happens next. Eric had his ego hurt cause of Tony's comments and this is just him lashing out
@Mister Brash yeah, I feel like his Ego gets the best of him and he says dumb shit like this without actually meaning it.
Well good for you glad you like terrible shows
@@bls8959 where did I say I liked terrible shows? because I go to a few live wwe raw shows a year doesn't mean I like terrible shows
AEW has solid storylines for modern day.
0:30 One of the most ridiculous statements ever made, LOL, This roster cannot hold a candle to many many many rosters of the past/ Wwf/WCW, please stay off the drugs.
Eric has ruined today's Wrestling. He once said the Global customer is more important than the American fan. Ouch
The host is ridiculous with his praise these days
AEW lacks Stories??? Ok, keep being pissed off on Tony, for those comments,,