I really appreciate you comparing them with other higher end products like the virpil and warthog. You also point the good, the bad, and the ugly. Something very few people do.
Watched the video, compared prices in different shops for different models. Bought it. Thanks for the review. Shipping to Michigan was $58. Bringing the total to $557. The company sent me an email to confirm it was in stock, another when they handed the box to FedEx. It hasn't arrived yet (two days, no surprise) but so far I'm impressed with how the company is responsive. Let's hope I really like the hotas. EDIT: UPDATE. I have to date received partial Shipment. Winwing sends this system out in four separate packages, all in separate boxes. I received the 2 parts of the Hotas first. I love it. I received the Stick grip next. I like it...or I would, if I could use it. Fedex lost the Base tha makes it work. It's 6 days late, Fedex can't find it. Needless to say, I can't use the system without the base. Shipping it in 4 separate shipments isn't great. I've contacted both Winwing and Fedex, they' both "Looking into it." And I still don't have a working Joystick. I like the quality of the product. I don't like 4 separate packages, one of which got lost. I update this if Fedex finds it or Winwing sends me another. I hope to one day be able to fly this system...
This looks promising! I've wanted to upgrade my throttle, but I've been interested in something a little more "real world" than some of the self-created throttles from other companies. Hopefully whenever they get around to making their F-16 throttle they'll send you one of those too! Edit: Just got to the F-16 part, and didn't even realize it's the same base. That just made this way more tempting!
@@RedKiteRender Yeah, I've been looking at getting a desktop mount for my throttle too. I grabbed this for my Warthog joystick, and for the price I've been really pleased with it. The biggest headache was finding a piece of wood laying around the house to bolt on to my desk, since my desk is too paper thin. www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KJCC4Q7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
@@RedKiteRender Also, any word on whether or not they'll separate the throttle and stick? Having just purchased the Warthog, I don't need a new joystick, but that throttle looks like it could be great for the right price.
I'd expect they'll do the initial run as just the full hotas set, then a few months down the line sell them independently like they did with the Libra/Taurus.
Ok. Now WinWing has my interest with the F-16 throttle grip and swappability (assuming the cord actually lasts). I’m college for a Mech Engineering degree. Honestly considering taking some of my optional 4000 level courses in electrical engineering that may help me learn how to repair and modify these hotas’s. With 3D printing and some hardware and software knowledge you can pretty much be your own Tony Stark these days with these HOTAS’s.
I hope WinWing are right and have stress tested it well, we'll have to see, as it'd be a shame to get wire failure since the rest of the base works really great.
When comparing products, you should add "access to customer support" to the equation because importing and/or returning devcies for repairs can hugely increase the invoice. Winwing is postionned above the other players in thiscategroy so they must be perfect at this price range
At this moment I am struggling to make myself understood with Virpil's tech support over a new throttle quadrant with a defective axis so I can't possibly agree more.
Maybe as nice feedback to this point, I have one of the first Super Libre and the first batches had a little flaw with the small 5-way-switch, used in place of the Recce-Button. The small Hat itself, got lose and I can't find it anymore, winwing offerd me to ship a new hat with some tips to fix it or a replacement switch they used in later versions. The new switch need a bit of sanding but is way more resistant. I don't asked for replacement of the stick because that's usually a bit messy with German customs. So I'm not sure how good they are at this point. But I received the customer-support emails ins just a few hours and there was no discussion or something like that. Also, I have to admit I used the little switch for zooming, so you can image the workload of that tiny switch, I'm sure if I would find the head it would be just a matter of good glue and nobody would see it ever was missing. Dont get me wrong that should not happen, but I mean I have my setup now for about 10 Months and fly around 15 - 25 hours the week, sooo it has some miles on the clock :D
@@Headbreaker intersting comment. nice to have feedback, but if you are not techsavvy, replaing yourself a part for a several hundreds dollars product can be tricky. All these companies are putting products produced in small quantities...feels like they sell prototypes
@@aquamich129 well I know what you mean but to be honest a switch can allways break, I mean I had two Warthog Throttles with a broken boatswitch so Im not that disappointed and sure because I ordert them from Amazon the replacment was fast but I usualy RMA are not that fast at all. Prototype is a bit harsh in my opinion, the workmanship ist really good and the switch is a buy-in Part so I thibk its is a good sign the replaced it in later Batches because they heard the Feedback. I cant say for sure but Im pretty sure if IT is not possible for you to switch that, a replacement for the Stick is the way to go but as I said for me its more easy to replace it myself. But thats just my impressions. I can understand your apprehension but keep in mind WinWing builds buissness Level Simulators as well so they net New in the buissness at all.
Customer support is one of those things that's quite difficult for me to quantify since I get VIP support given I'm reviewing it at their request. They've naturally been great in communications with me, although with minor language barrier issues, which is to be expected.
Price comparison. Warthog HOTAS (£403): shop.thrustmaster.com/en_gb/products-joysticks/hotas-warthogtm.html ORION F18 (£364 - but that's on sale): wwsimstore.com/p/324.html SUPER LIBRA F18 (£582 - but that's also on sale): wwsimstore.com/p/303.html Remember, to add on both shipping and 20% Customs tax for the ORION and Super Libra.
Can you use the Z Axis adapter with this product? According to their website it says you can only use it with their Super Libra stick. This looks like an amazing product but I'm limited to not being able to have rudder pedals atm so no Z Axis is kinda a deal breaker.
It looks great and I have ordered it but I am concerned as my desk has a large mouse pad mat that covers the entire desk and that will probably cause problems with the suction cups. Another reviewer felt it was not going to be an issue as he said it did'nt slide on his painted desk and felt the chance of sliding on the mat was less. I guess we'll see.
Have you tried using it to directly control the camera look? It's far more noticeable here than it is on the tgp or radar, which is why I demonstrated it this way.
Hey great - very insightful... Pepople seem to think the Warthog Hotas is no longer viable, what say you ? I really like the WINWING stuff but Im confused about the EXTENSION - I would love to add to ORION but Winwing says its not recommended.... they used language that seems to indicate its possible - Do you know if they will offer extension for the other Sticks ? Thanks again.
The Libra is better for extensions as it features dry cluches to prevent wobble. However the Libra is not compatible with Warthog compatible mounting solutions, and their own mount isn't that great. The Orion can use extensions, however it's not ideal, the base has no dry clutches, therefore it'll wobble a little, and without customisable spring strength it may feel a little light with the extra leverage, will that bother you? i couldn't say.
@RedKite Do you know if the Joystick extension from the Libra will work on the Orion? The website says its only for the Libra but I don't know if that's just because they have not updated the website or if its actually not compatible. I don't know if you have one of the extensions around to try it?
Not a bad shout, I stuck some rubber grip pads to the throttle, which worked great. But the stick, I'd be inclined to put it on a larger plate or desk mount myself.
Hi! Awesome video. Any chance you know if the super libra mount works with the Orion joystick as well? I’m trying to find a solution that allows me to use the joystick extension without paying $200 for a mount. Thanks!
I just rcvd my Orion but have not figured out how to set up either A3 or A4 to use as a UI zoom in/center/zoom way in in VR. Ideas? I also have a issue with the small pin that keeps both throttle quadrants together. It doesn't seem to align enough to get the magnet to hold it in place but it gets stopped so it cannot be locked down. Ideas? Thanks for the review. Bob
@@finalist1971 Double check you've assembled it correctly, otherwise get in touch with WinWing. www.winwing.cn/static/file/T2-ORION%20THROTTLE%20BASE-MANUAL%20EN%20V%201.0.pdf
Great review, one question (because I've heard mixed things)..... Can you use the Libra desk mount for the stick? It seems like the baseplate can be unscrewed and then the stick attached to the mount but can't find any concrete information on this.
The SImAppPro software (used for configuration) will not work, as there is no Mac version. However, in theory the stick/throttle should work fine as generic controllers, as long as Mac supports game controllers itself.
I am really considering getting at least the throttle as it has just about mall the knobs and switches on would need for any flight/space sim, however do you know if they carry any sticks that have a twist Z axis?
@@RedKiteRender I have a desk mount, currently using a x56. Thanks for the info. Sadly it looks like that attachment will be sold out for the foreseeable future though.. guess I'm getting a VIRPIL.
Hey Redkite, great review, question. You said at 8:50 that it was compatible with the extension and twist axis, but on their website on the orion page in bold red it says these are not recommended. Can you provide more information please?
They're compatible, but, the Orion base is not well suited to an extension. A small extension like the twist grip should be just fine, but a longer one will make the stick wobble as it lacks a dampening clutch, and of course will require a desk mount. The Libra on the otherhand is built to handle extensions. Unfortunately I was unable to test that, so i'm basing it on my experiences extending a WarBRD base.
Did you notice any twist in the Joystick, mine arrived today and is connected correctly and works fine, but the grip still twists about a 20deg each way with no real force
Make sure you've tightened the main screw, then add the little locking bolt per the manual: www.winwing.cn/static/file/J2-ORION%20JOYSTICK%20BASE-MANUAL%20EN%20V%201.0.pdf
This seems really competitive at $499, how well would you say this setup would do in the a-10c modules? I also plan to fly some rotary like the AH-64 when it comes out paired with the k-51 collective, so if you have flown with this stick in any helicopters or the A-10 in DCS id like to know your thoughts . Thinking about getting one of these or a TM Warthog setup, or just saving up for a virpil setup
Personally the Orion joystick base’s springs are a little heavy for my tastes, and they didn’t offer any alternative strengths. Whilst virpil will give you a selection of springs and cams so you can customise the feel. My daily flyer is the warbrd base + tm warthog a-10c. Both are great, but that customisation is why i use the warbrd. You can probably buy springs to fit the Orion that said.
@@RedKiteRender Definitely. I was looking into any number of ways to try and recreate the F-16 throttle, since it's such a unique layout and grip. I've got an old X-45 throttle that's kind of close, and was looking into how I could replace sensors and maybe 3D print an F-16 grip to replace it with...but that all looked like it would be as expensive as someone selling a commercial one, with the downside of me putting it together and probably messing up.
since this and the taurus are going on sale tonight which do you recommend. I can afford both but obviously if i can save money ill save money. Is the taurus worth the premium or should i get the orion. I currently only play in VR using an x52.
I think if money's not an issue it'll come down to what it's like to live with, do you have room for a more permanent setup with the Libra/Taurus? it's big and a pain to setup and remove often. Orion is much better for a typical home desk setup.
@@RedKiteRender got an order in for the orion since i dont have the space for a permanent space yet. I really want a mounted stick at somepoint with an extension.
I have the Logitek X56 Rhino(blue one) and I like it a lot. That said, this thing is very nice. And for the price it way better than the Warthog which you can hardly even find these days for less than $800. So how much to get one of these into the States?
my question is: is the throttle of the orion as precise as the throttle of the super taurus? i know the travel distance is bigger on the super taurus and that translates in a better reading in small movements, but are they using the same sensor or are they different?
@@RedKiteRender do you feel the difference in flight? i am looking into one of these and felt the taurus is quite big (i want to custom mount the throttle to my chair) and i never had a throttle before but i want to get the better one
The Taurus does make it easier to do fine corrections, and it's motion is really nice. But, I wouldn't say it's game a changing advantage. The startup panel attached to it is fun. Only real issue I have with the Taurus is the lack of extra axis for things like camera zoom. The Orion is much more accessible and easier to 'live with' than the Taurus, which is heavy and big, making setup a hassle. Orion is probably the better option unless you plan on building a more permanent setup attached to a desk.
@@RedKiteRender was thinking of the exact same thing, and that's the reason i still didn't ordered the taurus yet... I plan to do a custom mount for my chair that i can just mount whenever i want to play, and felt the taurus is too big for this set-up, but at the same time i don't want to miss out on better performance... But if they have the same sensor then maybe with the f18 handle ( or a slight mod ) the curve lenght might get bigger and it will get higher precision. But thanks for the info! Really appreciate it! Now hopefully they will have this separate from the grip for sale in the future, as i am looking into e virpil one for the joystick
The Virpil WarBRD is my daily flyer, combined with the Warthog stick. My favourite combo so far, though not too great for extensions (get a T-50 in that situation). Silky smooth, it took me a week of tinkering to get it how I wanted! (soft springs, smooth cams) I've been eying their throttle for a while.
I've not had any issues after minor tuning to my tastes, if you find it too fast; add saturation to cap top speed, curvature to make smaller corrections easier. It's far better than the Warthog's slew.
Any more thoughts on the idle cutoff detent now you've had it for 6 months? Some guy said he has accidentally shut his engines down several times now (after using a few months)
I've not managed to, although if you have light friction i can see it happening. If it is an issue you can always unbind the engine cut toff from the detent.
@@RedKiteRender I think the sidewall they made for the Viper throttle handles is the solution. A proper "lift over" type of detent that allows you to carry out the after start idle detent check positively .
@@boggy8557 Yeah I'm really looking forward to that F-16 throttle attachement. The warthog's lift to go into idle works great too, i modified the AB detent to push through, as it's also a lift by default.
Hey ! Awesome Video !! I am really considering buying it !! I just wanted to know if you could give more details on how do you fix the Orion stick on the TM base ? Thanks vor the video, great review ;)
I don't see why not, you'll have more buttons than you need, but it certainly could do. Though WW do offer some more general aviation products too if you look around their store!
@@RedKiteRender thanks. I’m just trying to get into flight sim and wanting to know what works. This caught my attention and I just wanted to know lil more.
Generally any USB flight sim controller will work with any flight sim game, be it civil or combat. If you ever think you might branch into combat sims after doing civil, you might want to buy something like this, so you're future proofed. Just note that a lot of high end joysticks lack a 'twist' for the rudder, whilst budget ones will have a twist. Without a twist you'll want to buy a set of rudder pedals to go with it to compensate, dedicated rudder pedals are much more accurate., esp for helicopters.
RedKite, this is kind of a Hail Mary, but on your recommendation I bought this joystick. I enjoyed it for an exceedingly short period before a spring broke in the joystick base. Is there any chance you can provide some active contact info for WinWing? Their listed phone number is not connected and emails remain unanswered. Further I have been unable to find a replacement spring in any hardware store. I now have a useless door stop... Thank you for your time.
Hey, did you manage to solve it? If you're on the HOTAS/HOSAS/SIMPIT Discord, I'd recommend hitting up Tony409#6372 he's the community manager for WinWing.
Fantastic review, thanks! A follow up question, just to be sure... you said it can be mounted to a HOTAS Warthog plate...does that mean there are the same screw holes on the bottom of the base as the Warthog joystick base, or did you have to change/adjust something?
@@RedKiteRender One more thing... on the WINWING Website they say: "Extension and Z Axis are not recommend to Orion HOTAS." I don't care about the Z Axis mod, but I would like to use their extension. Any idea why they don't recommend it? Have you tried it?
@@whitenoise8952 The Orion doesn't have a clutch system like the Libra, so whilst compatible, long extensions will make the stick wobble and not return to centre as neatly. Or at least that's my assumption based on my experience with the WarBRD and extensions. I was told they're compatible, but couldn't test it myself. Twist axis should be just fine, as it's only a small extension.
It's all GREAT for those getting it for free and peddling as their marketers. However, if you're a paying customer, that is a COMPLETELY different horrible experience.
Awesome video! :) This a new product that I hear of it the first time and it's really promising. One question: Stick has rudder twist? Cause this joystick solution would be golden in Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen and I am not that good with pedals ... Thank you for this lovely video.
@@puredumpsometimesgenius3202 It's compatible, but the Orion is not designed for extensions. With just the Twist it should be okay, but will ideally need a desk mount as it'll be raised too high for comfort on the desktop (you can see the space in the software where it shows the Twist axis support in this video too)
@@RedKiteRender so I can bought the z achsis and it's good to go (no pedals neded anymore) sorry for my English? When that fits in I definitely buy the orion on the 10. 5😁
The suction cup desktop solution is really unforgivable and the single worst solution I have ever seen for a desktop flight stick regardless of price point. To have it happen on a $500 set just shows that WINWING is not ready for the bigtime and is running far, far, far behind VIRPIL and VKB. I have one and unless you have a perfectly smooth, preferably glossy surface, it WILL some unstuck very quickly when rolling or pitching to full deflection. The trigger is also total crap with a loud and poor feeling spring inside and grinds and make that classic cheap spring sound. It sounds like a kid's toy for the dollar store. The throttle is IMO the best on the desktop market at any price, and the stick base internals are very good, but WINWING really screwed the pooch with the suction cup base. It's enough that if you don't have a super smooth glass or glossy desk or a good mounting solution, you could seriously reconsider purchasing until they either fix this literally INDUSTRY WORST desktop baseplate OR allow you to buy the throttle separately.
Awesome Video! I'm really considering to buy it (or maybe wait and go for the F-16 throttle) but i hope you can make a review for it, once it gets released😄 ps. guys make sure to buy the throttle via the affiliate link 😊
Same way with every other high end hardware manufacturer, they usually release in batches. Sadly means you've got to keep an eye out. The Orion isn't quite released yet, with stock coming in very soon ( in 9hrs 30 mins as of this post, based on their store)
Even with the Delta sim ministick mod, it's still got the same low update rate. TM really should release a revised Warthog, it's a little old now, could do with the update.
Good stuff, thanks!
I really appreciate you comparing them with other higher end products like the virpil and warthog. You also point the good, the bad, and the ugly. Something very few people do.
Yeah most of these reviews are paid advertisements. This guy's the real deal!
Thanks for doing the review. Just ordered one about an hour ago. Will be interesting to compare it to my WarBRD/Warthog setup.
i know this is 10 months old but how do you like it, and if your in the US how was the process of getting it from china, import taxes, delays ect.
When I'm looking to replace my WH throttle, I hope this throttle will be sold separately =)
Looks promising ^^
Watched the video, compared prices in different shops for different models. Bought it. Thanks for the review. Shipping to Michigan was $58. Bringing the total to $557. The company sent me an email to confirm it was in stock, another when they handed the box to FedEx. It hasn't arrived yet (two days, no surprise) but so far I'm impressed with how the company is responsive. Let's hope I really like the hotas.
EDIT: UPDATE. I have to date received partial Shipment. Winwing sends this system out in four separate packages, all in separate boxes. I received the 2 parts of the Hotas first. I love it. I received the Stick grip next. I like it...or I would, if I could use it. Fedex lost the Base tha makes it work. It's 6 days late, Fedex can't find it. Needless to say, I can't use the system without the base. Shipping it in 4 separate shipments isn't great. I've contacted both Winwing and Fedex, they' both "Looking into it." And I still don't have a working Joystick. I like the quality of the product. I don't like 4 separate packages, one of which got lost. I update this if Fedex finds it or Winwing sends me another. I hope to one day be able to fly this system...
it took 6 days from my super libra stick to arrive
Did it ever arrive and if so how is it?
Nicely detailed and balanced review. Thank you Mr kite.
I will never be able to afford anything seen here, but a Redkite video is a joy !
@@Orionneb Unless I win the lottery, its never for me hahaha
Great review , the best one for the Orion I have seen. Thanks for sharing. I think this may make a great upgrade from the Warthog.
This looks promising! I've wanted to upgrade my throttle, but I've been interested in something a little more "real world" than some of the self-created throttles from other companies. Hopefully whenever they get around to making their F-16 throttle they'll send you one of those too!
Edit: Just got to the F-16 part, and didn't even realize it's the same base. That just made this way more tempting!
That F-16 grip looks great, love that they're trying out the full rotation detent mechanism. Though it'll be too tall for desktop use.
@@RedKiteRender Yeah, I've been looking at getting a desktop mount for my throttle too. I grabbed this for my Warthog joystick, and for the price I've been really pleased with it. The biggest headache was finding a piece of wood laying around the house to bolt on to my desk, since my desk is too paper thin.
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KJCC4Q7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
@@RedKiteRender Also, any word on whether or not they'll separate the throttle and stick? Having just purchased the Warthog, I don't need a new joystick, but that throttle looks like it could be great for the right price.
I'd expect they'll do the initial run as just the full hotas set, then a few months down the line sell them independently like they did with the Libra/Taurus.
@@RedKiteRender Nice! I'll keep an eye out for it. Thanks!
Ok. Now WinWing has my interest with the F-16 throttle grip and swappability (assuming the cord actually lasts).
I’m college for a Mech Engineering degree. Honestly considering taking some of my optional 4000 level courses in electrical engineering that may help me learn how to repair and modify these hotas’s. With 3D printing and some hardware and software knowledge you can pretty much be your own Tony Stark these days with these HOTAS’s.
That would be awesome! I've made my own button box in the past and tinkered a little, really satisfying building your own!
excellent review, thanks! Looking forward to this entering the market
Excellent job. Very thorough. Thank you.
Nice review. I just bought this and looking forward to using it.
Very impressive review man! Love this channel.
Much appreciated!
Thanks for the review! So thorough!
its now in stock. I was probably the first one to buy it when the stocking notice changed. $582 total to USA
yeah me too. I stumbled upon it .
Hope it will be able to be bought separately, so i can buy this and the F-16 throttle grip.
Is the Orion actually compatible with the joystick extension? On their store it says "only use with super libra base."
DCS W 2.7 Clouds > WINWING Orion HOTAS > > Everything else in my life.
Good objective review as always, chap. But yeah, that cable to the handle is terrible. Going to stress fail really quickly.
I hope WinWing are right and have stress tested it well, we'll have to see, as it'd be a shame to get wire failure since the rest of the base works really great.
When comparing products, you should add "access to customer support" to the equation because importing and/or returning devcies for repairs can hugely increase the invoice. Winwing is postionned above the other players in thiscategroy so they must be perfect at this price range
At this moment I am struggling to make myself understood with Virpil's tech support over a new throttle quadrant with a defective axis so I can't possibly agree more.
Maybe as nice feedback to this point, I have one of the first Super Libre and the first batches had a little flaw with the small 5-way-switch, used in place of the Recce-Button. The small Hat itself, got lose and I can't find it anymore, winwing offerd me to ship a new hat with some tips to fix it or a replacement switch they used in later versions. The new switch need a bit of sanding but is way more resistant. I don't asked for replacement of the stick because that's usually a bit messy with German customs. So I'm not sure how good they are at this point.
But I received the customer-support emails ins just a few hours and there was no discussion or something like that.
Also, I have to admit I used the little switch for zooming, so you can image the workload of that tiny switch, I'm sure if I would find the head it would be just a matter of good glue and nobody would see it ever was missing.
Dont get me wrong that should not happen, but I mean I have my setup now for about 10 Months and fly around 15 - 25 hours the week, sooo it has some miles on the clock :D
@@Headbreaker intersting comment. nice to have feedback, but if you are not techsavvy, replaing yourself a part for a several hundreds dollars product can be tricky. All these companies are putting products produced in small quantities...feels like they sell prototypes
@@aquamich129 well I know what you mean but to be honest a switch can allways break, I mean I had two Warthog Throttles with a broken boatswitch so Im not that disappointed and sure because I ordert them from Amazon the replacment was fast but I usualy RMA are not that fast at all.
Prototype is a bit harsh in my opinion, the workmanship ist really good and the switch is a buy-in Part so I thibk its is a good sign the replaced it in later Batches because they heard the Feedback. I cant say for sure but Im pretty sure if IT is not possible for you to switch that, a replacement for the Stick is the way to go but as I said for me its more easy to replace it myself. But thats just my impressions.
I can understand your apprehension but keep in mind WinWing builds buissness Level Simulators as well so they net New in the buissness at all.
Customer support is one of those things that's quite difficult for me to quantify since I get VIP support given I'm reviewing it at their request.
They've naturally been great in communications with me, although with minor language barrier issues, which is to be expected.
The cables on throttle grips look like they won't survive a couple of months of use...
Oh look a PROPER review nice work
If only they will ever be in stock
Did I understand you correctly that the Warthog stick base plate will work with a WinWing F-16/18 stick base?
Hopefully, they won't take too long to come back into stock. I really want to get this over the Warthog.
Is the F16 stick more comfortable side stick than say the f18 would be?
Price comparison.
Warthog HOTAS (£403): shop.thrustmaster.com/en_gb/products-joysticks/hotas-warthogtm.html
ORION F18 (£364 - but that's on sale): wwsimstore.com/p/324.html
SUPER LIBRA F18 (£582 - but that's also on sale): wwsimstore.com/p/303.html
Remember, to add on both shipping and 20% Customs tax for the ORION and Super Libra.
A simple solution for the stick, mount it to a milk crate.
Really good video. Just hear a out this product . But again very good narrative and description.thanks
so after all do think it si better to get this or the VBK gladiator EVO?
Can you use the Z Axis adapter with this product? According to their website it says you can only use it with their Super Libra stick. This looks like an amazing product but I'm limited to not being able to have rudder pedals atm so no Z Axis is kinda a deal breaker.
It looks great and I have ordered it but I am concerned as my desk has a large mouse pad mat that covers the entire desk and that will probably cause problems with the suction cups. Another reviewer felt it was not going to be an issue as he said it did'nt slide on his painted desk and felt the chance of sliding on the mat was less. I guess we'll see.
My Warthog does NOT slew as bad as yours. Somethings up with yours.
Have you tried using it to directly control the camera look? It's far more noticeable here than it is on the tgp or radar, which is why I demonstrated it this way.
Thanks Moss
Hey great - very insightful... Pepople seem to think the Warthog Hotas is no longer viable, what say you ?
I really like the WINWING stuff but Im confused about the EXTENSION - I would love to add to ORION but Winwing says its not recommended.... they used language that seems to indicate its possible - Do you know if they will offer extension for the other Sticks ?
Thanks again.
The Libra is better for extensions as it features dry cluches to prevent wobble. However the Libra is not compatible with Warthog compatible mounting solutions, and their own mount isn't that great. The Orion can use extensions, however it's not ideal, the base has no dry clutches, therefore it'll wobble a little, and without customisable spring strength it may feel a little light with the extra leverage, will that bother you? i couldn't say.
ohh those cables on the throttle will not last a long time.
Nice review. 👍
How much did the delivery cost for you?
Great review!
@RedKite Do you know if the Joystick extension from the Libra will work on the Orion? The website says its only for the Libra but I don't know if that's just because they have not updated the website or if its actually not compatible. I don't know if you have one of the extensions around to try it?
They’re compatible, they both use the same connector.
@@RedKiteRender thanks. Ordered both.
@@russellmm you may have to find heavier springs
Love the Winwing in that it corrupts your LUA files restultinging in incredible drop in FPS.
I've not experienced that in the last year or so of having WW hardware?
@@RedKiteRender Check your polling rates. There are a ton of people reporting WW hardware destroying bandwith.
I shall keep an eye out.
Try a few coats of wax on the desk. Smoothe clean surface make suction cups work much better.
Not a bad shout, I stuck some rubber grip pads to the throttle, which worked great. But the stick, I'd be inclined to put it on a larger plate or desk mount myself.
Hi! Awesome video. Any chance you know if the super libra mount works with the Orion joystick as well? I’m trying to find a solution that allows me to use the joystick extension without paying $200 for a mount. Thanks!
Have been looking for an answer to this as well, no luck yet
I just rcvd my Orion but have not figured out how to set up either A3 or A4 to use as a UI zoom in/center/zoom way in in VR. Ideas?
I also have a issue with the small pin that keeps both throttle quadrants together. It doesn't seem to align enough to get the magnet
to hold it in place but it gets stopped so it cannot be locked down. Ideas? Thanks for the review. Bob
Set them as buttons, bind to the VR zoom levels, which I think are found in the UI layer category.
I have the exact same problem with the pin as well Bob - seems to bottom out in the hole but not allow me to slide the lock down.
@@finalist1971 Double check you've assembled it correctly, otherwise get in touch with WinWing.
www.winwing.cn/static/file/T2-ORION%20THROTTLE%20BASE-MANUAL%20EN%20V%201.0.pdf
Great review, one question (because I've heard mixed things)..... Can you use the Libra desk mount for the stick? It seems like the baseplate can be unscrewed and then the stick attached to the mount but can't find any concrete information on this.
No you cannot, they use a different layout, it's compatible with some TM warthog mounts just got to make sure that front wire has clearance.
off topic, what was that LSO script you had running during the carrier landing 10:33
forums.eagle.ru/topic/189005-banklers-case-1-recovery-trainer/
hi does anyone know if this would work with mac? if not then does anyone have any reccomendations?
thank you
The SImAppPro software (used for configuration) will not work, as there is no Mac version. However, in theory the stick/throttle should work fine as generic controllers, as long as Mac supports game controllers itself.
Awesome review ThX!
To many bad's for that price range!
I am really considering getting at least the throttle as it has just about mall the knobs and switches on would need for any flight/space sim, however do you know if they carry any sticks that have a twist Z axis?
You can buy an extra twist axis kit which goes between the stick and base, though it will raise the handle above what is comfortable for tabletop use.
@@RedKiteRender I have a desk mount, currently using a x56. Thanks for the info. Sadly it looks like that attachment will be sold out for the foreseeable future though.. guess I'm getting a VIRPIL.
I do wonder if those throttle wires will work harden over time and break.
Hey Redkite, great review, question. You said at 8:50 that it was compatible with the extension and twist axis, but on their website on the orion page in bold red it says these are not recommended. Can you provide more information please?
They're compatible, but, the Orion base is not well suited to an extension. A small extension like the twist grip should be just fine, but a longer one will make the stick wobble as it lacks a dampening clutch, and of course will require a desk mount.
The Libra on the otherhand is built to handle extensions.
Unfortunately I was unable to test that, so i'm basing it on my experiences extending a WarBRD base.
@@RedKiteRender Sweet, good to know! Thank you!
Does the grip itself have an aluminum construction, and does that extent to the the throttle grips?
Yes on both
@@RedKiteRender Excellent, thank you.
Did you notice any twist in the Joystick, mine arrived today and is connected correctly and works fine, but the grip still twists about a 20deg each way with no real force
Make sure you've tightened the main screw, then add the little locking bolt per the manual:
www.winwing.cn/static/file/J2-ORION%20JOYSTICK%20BASE-MANUAL%20EN%20V%201.0.pdf
@@RedKiteRender Thanks that did it ! was jut not quite done up enough
This seems really competitive at $499, how well would you say this setup would do in the a-10c modules? I also plan to fly some rotary like the AH-64 when it comes out paired with the k-51 collective, so if you have flown with this stick in any helicopters or the A-10 in DCS id like to know your thoughts . Thinking about getting one of these or a TM Warthog setup, or just saving up for a virpil setup
Personally the Orion joystick base’s springs are a little heavy for my tastes, and they didn’t offer any alternative strengths. Whilst virpil will give you a selection of springs and cams so you can customise the feel. My daily flyer is the warbrd base + tm warthog a-10c. Both are great, but that customisation is why i use the warbrd. You can probably buy springs to fit the Orion that said.
HAVE THE ORION AND GOT MY THRUSTMASTER COUGERS AND WOW
How is every name I come up with taken? Whatever its fine there different my name has a space
That F16 throttle looks awesome
Yeah, that alone is a huge selling point for me. The ability to swap between the F/A-18 and F-16 depending on which I feel like would be incredible.
Especially interested since you can't buy a F-16 throttle, just old worn out second hand TM ones.
@@RedKiteRender Definitely. I was looking into any number of ways to try and recreate the F-16 throttle, since it's such a unique layout and grip. I've got an old X-45 throttle that's kind of close, and was looking into how I could replace sensors and maybe 3D print an F-16 grip to replace it with...but that all looked like it would be as expensive as someone selling a commercial one, with the downside of me putting it together and probably messing up.
since this and the taurus are going on sale tonight which do you recommend. I can afford both but obviously if i can save money ill save money. Is the taurus worth the premium or should i get the orion. I currently only play in VR using an x52.
I think if money's not an issue it'll come down to what it's like to live with, do you have room for a more permanent setup with the Libra/Taurus? it's big and a pain to setup and remove often. Orion is much better for a typical home desk setup.
@@RedKiteRender got an order in for the orion since i dont have the space for a permanent space yet. I really want a mounted stick at somepoint with an extension.
I have the Logitek X56 Rhino(blue one) and I like it a lot. That said, this thing is very nice. And for the price it way better than the Warthog which you can hardly even find these days for less than $800. So how much to get one of these into the States?
$582 and it only took 6 days to get from China to Texas
Anyone else picturing Richard Ayoade while he talks? 🤣
Hah not the first time I've heard that!
my question is: is the throttle of the orion as precise as the throttle of the super taurus? i know the travel distance is bigger on the super taurus and that translates in a better reading in small movements, but are they using the same sensor or are they different?
Same sensors, but having the greater travel the Taurus is more precise.
@@RedKiteRender do you feel the difference in flight? i am looking into one of these and felt the taurus is quite big (i want to custom mount the throttle to my chair) and i never had a throttle before but i want to get the better one
The Taurus does make it easier to do fine corrections, and it's motion is really nice. But, I wouldn't say it's game a changing advantage. The startup panel attached to it is fun. Only real issue I have with the Taurus is the lack of extra axis for things like camera zoom.
The Orion is much more accessible and easier to 'live with' than the Taurus, which is heavy and big, making setup a hassle. Orion is probably the better option unless you plan on building a more permanent setup attached to a desk.
@@RedKiteRender was thinking of the exact same thing, and that's the reason i still didn't ordered the taurus yet... I plan to do a custom mount for my chair that i can just mount whenever i want to play, and felt the taurus is too big for this set-up, but at the same time i don't want to miss out on better performance... But if they have the same sensor then maybe with the f18 handle ( or a slight mod ) the curve lenght might get bigger and it will get higher precision. But thanks for the info! Really appreciate it! Now hopefully they will have this separate from the grip for sale in the future, as i am looking into e virpil one for the joystick
The Virpil WarBRD is my daily flyer, combined with the Warthog stick. My favourite combo so far, though not too great for extensions (get a T-50 in that situation). Silky smooth, it took me a week of tinkering to get it how I wanted! (soft springs, smooth cams) I've been eying their throttle for a while.
Does it have a dual staged trigger?
Both The WW F-16 and F/A-18c handles have Dual stage triggers
@@RedKiteRender Thanks
Would love one of these so tired of my cheap plastic thrustmaster tc16
people are complaining about the slew on the throttle being hard to maneuver in the TDC,,,, any issues with using the cursor in the MFD's?
I've not had any issues after minor tuning to my tastes, if you find it too fast; add saturation to cap top speed, curvature to make smaller corrections easier. It's far better than the Warthog's slew.
@@RedKiteRender do you bind same as Chucks guide?
@@charlesbukowski9836 No, I bind to match the hotas of the aircraft in question as best as possible.
@@RedKiteRender can you host your control files?
Any more thoughts on the idle cutoff detent now you've had it for 6 months? Some guy said he has accidentally shut his engines down several times now (after using a few months)
I've not managed to, although if you have light friction i can see it happening. If it is an issue you can always unbind the engine cut toff from the detent.
@@RedKiteRender I think the sidewall they made for the Viper throttle handles is the solution. A proper "lift over" type of detent that allows you to carry out the after start idle detent check positively .
@@boggy8557 Yeah I'm really looking forward to that F-16 throttle attachement. The warthog's lift to go into idle works great too, i modified the AB detent to push through, as it's also a lift by default.
First time hear about Winwing. Wish to buy it first but not available in UE. Pitty because it looks great.
In that F-16 throttle clip there was some sort of F-15 eagle throttle behind it
Indeed, good eye.
That’s an old Suncom F-15 throttle in the background. Doesn’t mean it won’t happen in the future, but that one isn’t it.
One small point. Win wing says the extension is not recommended with the Orion base.
How do you even buy it..???
Thanks!
Thanks very kindly! Happy holidays.
Hey ! Awesome Video !! I am really considering buying it !! I just wanted to know if you could give more details on how do you fix the Orion stick on the TM base ? Thanks vor the video, great review ;)
The Orion has the exact same screw size and placement, so you just screw it onto the TM weighted base after removing the thrustmaster gimbal
Does the Orion work with civil flights?
I don't see why not, you'll have more buttons than you need, but it certainly could do. Though WW do offer some more general aviation products too if you look around their store!
@@RedKiteRender thanks. I’m just trying to get into flight sim and wanting to know what works. This caught my attention and I just wanted to know lil more.
Generally any USB flight sim controller will work with any flight sim game, be it civil or combat. If you ever think you might branch into combat sims after doing civil, you might want to buy something like this, so you're future proofed. Just note that a lot of high end joysticks lack a 'twist' for the rudder, whilst budget ones will have a twist. Without a twist you'll want to buy a set of rudder pedals to go with it to compensate, dedicated rudder pedals are much more accurate., esp for helicopters.
RedKite, this is kind of a Hail Mary, but on your recommendation I bought this joystick. I enjoyed it for an exceedingly short period before a spring broke in the joystick base. Is there any chance you can provide some active contact info for WinWing? Their listed phone number is not connected and emails remain unanswered. Further I have been unable to find a replacement spring in any hardware store. I now have a useless door stop...
Thank you for your time.
Hey, did you manage to solve it? If you're on the HOTAS/HOSAS/SIMPIT Discord, I'd recommend hitting up Tony409#6372 he's the community manager for WinWing.
I'm only 20 seconds in and already know that the price will be painful.
Actually, that wasn't that bad.
@@-Rambi- Agreed! right now its less expensive the the Warthog.
Is there button for wing sweep and bomb mode?
No, but you can map those. The button labels here are for the F-18.
Fantastic review, thanks! A follow up question, just to be sure... you said it can be mounted to a HOTAS Warthog plate...does that mean there are the same screw holes on the bottom of the base as the Warthog joystick base, or did you have to change/adjust something?
Same screws/layout
@@RedKiteRender Appreciate the quick answer!
@@RedKiteRender One more thing... on the WINWING Website they say: "Extension and Z Axis are not recommend to Orion HOTAS." I don't care about the Z Axis mod, but I would like to use their extension. Any idea why they don't recommend it? Have you tried it?
@@whitenoise8952 The Orion doesn't have a clutch system like the Libra, so whilst compatible, long extensions will make the stick wobble and not return to centre as neatly. Or at least that's my assumption based on my experience with the WarBRD and extensions.
I was told they're compatible, but couldn't test it myself.
Twist axis should be just fine, as it's only a small extension.
@@RedKiteRender Makes sense, thank you for the quick answers!
It's all GREAT for those getting it for free and peddling as their marketers. However, if you're a paying customer, that is a COMPLETELY different horrible experience.
Awesome video! :) This a new product that I hear of it the first time and it's really promising.
One question: Stick has rudder twist? Cause this joystick solution would be golden in Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen and I am not that good with pedals ...
Thank you for this lovely video.
Twist can be bought separately, by default it's fixed. But it also serves as a small extension, so might make it a little too tall for desktop use.
@@RedKiteRender I think the z axis is only vor the libra, not the orion???? 🤔 Any solution or better knowledge, greetings from austria.
@@puredumpsometimesgenius3202 It's compatible, but the Orion is not designed for extensions. With just the Twist it should be okay, but will ideally need a desk mount as it'll be raised too high for comfort on the desktop (you can see the space in the software where it shows the Twist axis support in this video too)
@@RedKiteRender so I can bought the z achsis and it's good to go (no pedals neded anymore) sorry for my English? When that fits in I definitely buy the orion on the 10. 5😁
I hope they come through on the f16 throttle. Just put an order in.
They have a ridiculous sale on now! Just purchased this throttle
waiting on the F16 throttle. Then I will pull the proverbial trigger!!!
Pro tip: Use magnets
The suction cup desktop solution is really unforgivable and the single worst solution I have ever seen for a desktop flight stick regardless of price point. To have it happen on a $500 set just shows that WINWING is not ready for the bigtime and is running far, far, far behind VIRPIL and VKB. I have one and unless you have a perfectly smooth, preferably glossy surface, it WILL some unstuck very quickly when rolling or pitching to full deflection. The trigger is also total crap with a loud and poor feeling spring inside and grinds and make that classic cheap spring sound. It sounds like a kid's toy for the dollar store. The throttle is IMO the best on the desktop market at any price, and the stick base internals are very good, but WINWING really screwed the pooch with the suction cup base. It's enough that if you don't have a super smooth glass or glossy desk or a good mounting solution, you could seriously reconsider purchasing until they either fix this literally INDUSTRY WORST desktop baseplate OR allow you to buy the throttle separately.
Hello, I'm planning on buying Orion bundle and I am confused what to buy..
VKB Gladiator nxt with orion throttle or Orion hotas?
got the Winwing super libra, just want to pick up the orion throttle now.
how do you like it? can you adjust the stick to make it have to use more force to move?
@@charlesbukowski9836 its great, there are several different spring options included to adjust it.
@@charlesbukowski9836 i picked up an orion combo and kept the throttle, great quality stuff. Hope they make pedals yet.
@@Melkor54 can I use it with my Logitech X56 throttle?
@@charlesbukowski9836 yes, i did for quite a while with my x56 throttle.
Cool!
It seems, that everything is sold out :-/
649 for just the throttle? Jesus, I got my whole Virpil setup for 800, little too highly priced honestly.
they are way cheaper now
Awesome Video! I'm really considering to buy it (or maybe wait and go for the F-16 throttle) but i hope you can make a review for it, once it gets released😄
ps. guys make sure to buy the throttle via the affiliate link 😊
No affiliate link :)
@@RedKiteRender No? Why?
It would be a conflict of interest to accept money for something I'm reviewing.
@@RedKiteRender Understandable, have a great day 👍
unavailable for the next year like everything else they "sell".
Same way with every other high end hardware manufacturer, they usually release in batches. Sadly means you've got to keep an eye out. The Orion isn't quite released yet, with stock coming in very soon ( in 9hrs 30 mins as of this post, based on their store)
Looks nice but all these buttons and toggle switches don't do you much good in VR and I don't know why anybody wants to fly non-VR today.
I fly fine in VR with buttons and toggles. You develop muscle memory to them and you can always peek out of the nose gap if you really need to.
5:45 the tdc slew on the warthog is kinda garbage tbh
Even with the Delta sim ministick mod, it's still got the same low update rate. TM really should release a revised Warthog, it's a little old now, could do with the update.
I would have bought this but shipping is 130$u.s. And in Canadian that's well over a grand after all is said and done, not worth it
i ordered it, it was lump sum $626.95usd shipped to canada or $786 cad.
Made and distributed from China. Hard pass...you’re lucky if you get your order. If you do, good luck if it functions.
So is thrustmaster, knock off the racism.