Tim, You are the man in demand. Knowledge and ability to teach others has you in demand. This is yet another example of the many jobs you take on and make a successful outcome.
This was fascinating to watch! I didnt know so much goes into the grounds! Thanks for sharing! Great content. Im all over your channel today, loving every minute. I appreciate your vast knowledge of all things grading and tilling!
The engineer in me says: bolt a chisel roller behind a rotor tiller mounted together using a hydraulic leveling cylinder - so it behaves like a pull type box blade wheel set. Fun and exciting video, Tim.
That’s quite a different type of soil preparation for their specific needs. Interesting to see how they do that, and how the different attachments perform. It’s quite a science. Blessings.
There’s so much to explore in the world of footing for the equestrians… drags, arenas, footing. All of it. I’m always trying to improve our footing here…
Very enjoyable video Tim. Great comparison of the two implements. I also learned a lot about what it takes to groom a horse arena. Thanks for another great video.
Now you’re in my wheel house building and maintaining horse arenas and stalls. the Arena vator that I use is very similar to the M5. The bar you referred to Not floating is a “Leveling Bar”. A good Arena has a DG ( Decomposed Granite) base layer 4-6” deep set for drainage in both directions at 1% and packed with a double drum roller. The top fluff normally is washed Concrete sand set for the type of riding. You want the German Spring tines to be set so they just skim across the top of the base layer and to accomplish this you adjust the leveling bar and the clod buster roller say 2” off the ground with the tines touching the ground. The level bar being fixed will knock down and high spots while the clod buster roller keeps you from going to deep and also busting up and clods of sand. Arena grooming is a true art that I absolutely love.
There are several of these horse arenas in the area that get media coverage by helping PTSD victims. People love their horses. Thanks for taking us along.
Tim talk to ventrac and see if they can make a purpose built attachment just for arenas and then bring vinny in and show it on here again and then ventrac can will have something specific to the harrow and tighter turns for arenas
I am little late for the comments, but I LOVE A PERFECTA ! I own a tiller I use with my 2038R but I have used my friend’s 15’ Perfecta on my 4440. I makes a great seedbed and garden plot. There was a vegetable farmer somewhere on UA-cam that traded his tiller for a Perfecta. One thing a Perfecta offers is VERTICAL TILLAGE vs the horizontal tillage and beating to death of the topsoil that is tiller does.
Very fun video! My neighbor uses a Premier Equestrian Pro Groomer. It looks much shorter than these units. I have also seen another friend who uses a Bannerman Ballpark Groomer, he really loves it. It really has two layers prepared separately. Who knows.
Something that might be a modification to the UM would be at the spike harrow. If it were reversable. i.e. If the spikes could be flipped 180 and have a blade on the back side. The combination of a semi-floating blade /flippable to spike tooth harrow ( and being spring tensioned) might have some advantages if that unit is preferred.
Every arena groomer has its own purpose the biggest down fall to this drag is no hydraulic ripper dig tips. The spring dig tips won't rip up hard ground. The Ground Hog and Black Widow have that option. The Black Widow, when used right is the best for big barrel races keeps the ground level after multiple day events. The budget is the biggest factor in a drag.
I am very glad to see this video. I have been looking at a perfecta 12. For field use and wondered how it performed. I am looking to get one and use it as a seed bed prep tool.
I don’t have video, but tried the perfecta in the outdoor arena space from prior video….where there were weeds. I found that it did a wonderful job of allowing the ‘trash’ to flow through without plugging.
I know I’m late but the ABI Attachments TR3 or TR3e Equine are smaller units that will pull dirt, level with auto leveling blade and “comb” smooth all in the same pass and it has a smaller foot print that makes it easier to maneuver. It has scarifiers if u want to rip and the auto leveling blade can be locked down at different heights to adjust the amount of dirt flow thru the tool
think releasing the 3pt to allow the impliment to move side to side as you turn and try to not turn as sharp or raise a bit turning wont make ruts.....alowing side shifting should make smoother turning. a tow behind might be better for them
Abi is the place you go when it comes to arena drags.. The Tr3 is the best out there .. I know your firmiliar with Abi sense you have a manure spreader from them . We use a abi 185 manure spreader for our horse boarding stable as well
One major observation - both tools are built and marketed as cultivators. NOT arena drags. There are many companies out there manufacturing drags that have put in the time and resources to study arena footing and equine physiology. Premier Equestrian, Reveal, ABI Attachments, and several others have worked with top horse trainers, riders, and facilities to design their products to make the footing safe and properly groomed for horses for a variety of disciplines. I appreciate Tim's observations and in some cases I think he recognizes the tools are limited for the application they are demonstrating. And this would be due to the fact they are NOT arena drags. To that end, they are glorified rakes or harrows that cannot control depth, aeration, maintaining a base, etc. They rip and prep soil for planting. A far different application than footing for horse riding.
I have an equestrian facility with an indoor and 2 outdoor arenas, all with different footing because we do English and Western. I have a TR3 and I can tell you it is a terrible drag for these applications without major adjustments between each arena. I have been shopping for a new drag in the similar style as the MK. Shouldnt you have had the drag resting on that rear roller?
Interesting. Regarding rear roller, yes, I think we needed to lower the roller some more. We only had so much time, and Jason wasn’t worried about the furrows made by the tines anyway. The MK would likely be a good choice for you. Would love to see and hear your complaints about the TR3z
I think the biggest difference is the MK is designed for this application, while the Perfecta is a field cultivator. In the proper place the Perfecta is a wonderful tool, but here I was very impressed with the MK. The adjustability of the MK is nice, I would love to have an afternoon to play around with it, it seemed like there still needed to be some adjusting done.
@@TractorTimewithTim There are a number of manufacturers who produce dedicated arena groomers and some that produce equipment that gets pressed into service as arena groomers. As with any job, the preferred tool should suit the specific need. At the high end, groomers may be fitted with lasers to automatically level the surface as well as water reservoirs with sprayers to manage the moisture content of the soil. At the high end, groomers usually are performing various functions in one pass, but in general terms, the tool tears up the ground and lays it back down, with some consideration to the needs of the conditions that the discipline/event calls for. At the bottom end, there's no telling what Bubba might be using as a drag. Arena grounds vary wildly from arena to arena, so groomers that are hauled to different arenas may need to be more comprehensive in scope than a groomer that is optimized for one particular "home" arena. The riding discipline also needs to be addressed, as for example, the footing requirements of a loping pen are far less demanding than those required by something like barrel racing or reining. The aesthetic appearance of the finished drag may be of some importance if the event is to be televised, or there is an expectation of a paying audience. User error is another concern. Although some manufacturers claim that their product is "plug and play", there's always that one event, or one ground type that requires something that the tool isn't capable of addressing, so some expertise may be called for. I've got a buddy who serves as a professional groundskeeper at major equestrian events and though he's used the best from every manufacturer, he has his favorites. I've got another buddy with enough money that he keeps at least two groomers with dedicated tractors so that his groundskeepers can reduce the amount of time required to address the footing between each rider at his events.
As a horse professional, each discipline is slightly different, but probably the most important part of the arena drag is that it creates a smooth level base, the different disciplines require more or less depth on top, which can’t be achieved by just digging deeper or you’ll destroy your base. Check out Kiser drags, they are the top of the line also Arena Werks are good. If moneys no object the non three point hitch models are the best, they corner better and don’t create undulation (where if you get a low spot, the front of the tractor rises coming out of it and the drags digs the low spot deeper)
Thanks for coming out! Very good comparison.
Tim, You are the man in demand. Knowledge and ability to teach others has you in demand. This is yet another example of the many jobs you take on and make a successful outcome.
The reveal 4n1 is a great tool for grooming arenas! Best I’ve ever used!
This was fascinating to watch! I didnt know so much goes into the grounds! Thanks for sharing! Great content. Im all over your channel today, loving every minute. I appreciate your vast knowledge of all things grading and tilling!
Love this content and channel! Thanks for sharing!
The engineer in me says: bolt a chisel roller behind a rotor tiller mounted together using a hydraulic leveling cylinder - so it behaves like a pull type box blade wheel set. Fun and exciting video, Tim.
I have helped a couple neighbors out with this. I use a rototiller set to the highest level. Works just fine.
That’s quite a different type of soil preparation for their specific needs. Interesting to see how they do that, and how the different attachments perform. It’s quite a science. Blessings.
There’s so much to explore in the world of footing for the equestrians… drags, arenas, footing. All of it. I’m always trying to improve our footing here…
Very enjoyable video Tim. Great comparison of the two implements. I also learned a lot about what it takes to groom a horse arena. Thanks for another great video.
This is the reason I bought the ABI TR3 Rake. For the floating blade & depth wheels to keep from the wavy finish.
Great video!
I have been wanting a “Do-All” for my compact tractor. Thanks for showing these.
Signed
The Other Tim with Tractors
Tim, you would love horses. They are like a big dog. They are very loving animals.
But they eat $$!!!
@@TractorTimewithTim so does Christy🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️😂
Now you’re in my wheel house building and maintaining horse arenas and stalls. the Arena vator that I use is very similar to the M5. The bar you referred to Not floating is a “Leveling Bar”.
A good Arena has a DG ( Decomposed Granite) base layer 4-6” deep set for drainage in both directions at 1% and packed with a double drum roller.
The top fluff normally is washed Concrete sand set for the type of riding.
You want the German Spring tines to be set so they just skim across the top of the base layer and to accomplish this you adjust the leveling bar and the clod buster roller say 2” off the ground with the tines touching the ground.
The level bar being fixed will knock down and high spots while the clod buster roller keeps you from going to deep and also busting up and clods of sand.
Arena grooming is a true art that I absolutely love.
Don't have horses but loved this trip and the arena work.
Same for me!
There are several of these horse arenas in the area that get media coverage by helping PTSD victims. People love their horses. Thanks for taking us along.
Tim talk to ventrac and see if they can make a purpose built attachment just for arenas and then bring vinny in and show it on here again and then ventrac can will have something specific to the harrow and tighter turns for arenas
An ABI attachements TR3 would be a better tool for this than either of the implements in the video, but they did seem to get the job done.
That looks like the perfect application for an electric tractor.
I am little late for the comments, but I LOVE A PERFECTA ! I own a tiller I use with my 2038R but I have used my friend’s 15’ Perfecta on my 4440. I makes a great seedbed and garden plot. There was a vegetable farmer somewhere on UA-cam that traded his tiller for a Perfecta. One thing a Perfecta offers is VERTICAL TILLAGE vs the horizontal tillage and beating to death of the topsoil that is tiller does.
Wuhuuu i see a Boxer , Nice
Very fun video! My neighbor uses a Premier Equestrian Pro Groomer. It looks much shorter than these units. I have also seen another friend who uses a Bannerman Ballpark Groomer, he really loves it. It really has two layers prepared separately. Who knows.
That was neat. Thanks
Something that might be a modification to the UM would be at the spike harrow. If it were reversable. i.e. If the spikes could be flipped 180 and have a blade on the back side. The combination of a semi-floating blade /flippable to spike tooth harrow ( and being spring tensioned) might have some advantages if that unit is preferred.
Every arena groomer has its own purpose the biggest down fall to this drag is no hydraulic ripper dig tips. The spring dig tips won't rip up hard ground. The Ground Hog and Black Widow have that option. The Black Widow, when used right is the best for big barrel races keeps the ground level after multiple day events. The budget is the biggest factor in a drag.
Good candidate for a laser.
You guys are always horsing’ around 😂
I am very glad to see this video. I have been looking at a perfecta 12. For field use and wondered how it performed. I am looking to get one and use it as a seed bed prep tool.
I don’t have video, but tried the perfecta in the outdoor arena space from prior video….where there were weeds. I found that it did a wonderful job of allowing the ‘trash’ to flow through without plugging.
I know I’m late but the ABI Attachments TR3 or TR3e Equine are smaller units that will pull dirt, level with auto leveling blade and “comb” smooth all in the same pass and it has a smaller foot print that makes it easier to maneuver. It has scarifiers if u want to rip and the auto leveling blade can be locked down at different heights to adjust the amount of dirt flow thru the tool
Yep, and it has gauge wheels too!
Let’s get started
Sounds like vinnie with the landscape rake would be ideal. Maybe pulling a small drag harrow at the same time.
Horse training EXPENSIVE!
think releasing the 3pt to allow the impliment to move side to side as you turn and try to not turn as sharp or raise a bit turning wont make ruts.....alowing side shifting should make smoother turning.
a tow behind might be better for them
Abi is the place you go when it comes to arena drags.. The Tr3 is the best out there .. I know your firmiliar with Abi sense you have a manure spreader from them . We use a abi 185 manure spreader for our horse boarding stable as well
Yep.
Great video. Very interesting 👍🏻
ABI TR3 Equine rake set it and just drag.
One major observation - both tools are built and marketed as cultivators. NOT arena drags. There are many companies out there manufacturing drags that have put in the time and resources to study arena footing and equine physiology. Premier Equestrian, Reveal, ABI Attachments, and several others have worked with top horse trainers, riders, and facilities to design their products to make the footing safe and properly groomed for horses for a variety of disciplines. I appreciate Tim's observations and in some cases I think he recognizes the tools are limited for the application they are demonstrating. And this would be due to the fact they are NOT arena drags. To that end, they are glorified rakes or harrows that cannot control depth, aeration, maintaining a base, etc. They rip and prep soil for planting. A far different application than footing for horse riding.
Why not buy a "Sand Pro" that golf courses use to rake bunkers. does a great job and much more compact and its a zero turn.
what indoor tractor models
I have an equestrian facility with an indoor and 2 outdoor arenas, all with different footing because we do English and Western. I have a TR3 and I can tell you it is a terrible drag for these applications without major adjustments between each arena. I have been shopping for a new drag in the similar style as the MK. Shouldnt you have had the drag resting on that rear roller?
Interesting. Regarding rear roller, yes, I think we needed to lower the roller some more. We only had so much time, and Jason wasn’t worried about the furrows made by the tines anyway.
The MK would likely be a good choice for you. Would love to see and hear your complaints about the TR3z
They really need a hydraulic top link
Drag show? Oh wait, its Tractor Tim, lol.
Try a reveal 4n1
Interesting to see how soil is conditioned by non growing agricultural use and the requirement is to create the proper cushion.
I think the biggest difference is the MK is designed for this application, while the Perfecta is a field cultivator. In the proper place the Perfecta is a wonderful tool, but here I was very impressed with the MK. The adjustability of the MK is nice, I would love to have an afternoon to play around with it, it seemed like there still needed to be some adjusting done.
Yep. Agreed on all of your points.
Perfecta worked great (off camera) in trashy/weedy field. Trash flowed right through it without clogging.
@@TractorTimewithTim There are a number of manufacturers who produce dedicated arena groomers and some that produce equipment that gets pressed into service as arena groomers. As with any job, the preferred tool should suit the specific need. At the high end, groomers may be fitted with lasers to automatically level the surface as well as water reservoirs with sprayers to manage the moisture content of the soil. At the high end, groomers usually are performing various functions in one pass, but in general terms, the tool tears up the ground and lays it back down, with some consideration to the needs of the conditions that the discipline/event calls for. At the bottom end, there's no telling what Bubba might be using as a drag. Arena grounds vary wildly from arena to arena, so groomers that are hauled to different arenas may need to be more comprehensive in scope than a groomer that is optimized for one particular "home" arena. The riding discipline also needs to be addressed, as for example, the footing requirements of a loping pen are far less demanding than those required by something like barrel racing or reining. The aesthetic appearance of the finished drag may be of some importance if the event is to be televised, or there is an expectation of a paying audience. User error is another concern. Although some manufacturers claim that their product is "plug and play", there's always that one event, or one ground type that requires something that the tool isn't capable of addressing, so some expertise may be called for. I've got a buddy who serves as a professional groundskeeper at major equestrian events and though he's used the best from every manufacturer, he has his favorites. I've got another buddy with enough money that he keeps at least two groomers with dedicated tractors so that his groundskeepers can reduce the amount of time required to address the footing between each rider at his events.
As a horse professional, each discipline is slightly different, but probably the most important part of the arena drag is that it creates a smooth level base, the different disciplines require more or less depth on top, which can’t be achieved by just digging deeper or you’ll destroy your base. Check out Kiser drags, they are the top of the line also Arena Werks are good. If moneys no object the non three point hitch models are the best, they corner better and don’t create undulation (where if you get a low spot, the front of the tractor rises coming out of it and the drags digs the low spot deeper)