This is a really good explanation of the creep management but I feel like the explanation of the play is incomplete without mentioning the vision control aspect to it. Ignar smiting blue team wolves solidifies this entire play. It creates the knowledge that Faker's jungler is not top side at all, so KFO can safely build a wave that crashes on his tower when he returns with no TP and not get forced off the wave. Without the knowledge that Kindred won't be coming it's dangerous to do this as no flash vs trundle is very dangerous for Fiora when she's stuck in a 1v2. Since the wolf spirit is there, the vision combined with the wave management result in the sort of unanswerable capitalization top Korean players are known for.
+Cyraknoss True, but I think he only wanted to show the creep wave part not the entire play. The tower dive was just for show, the real play he was explaining was the creep wave management.
+Cullen Power Exactly the kill was just to show the situation that lead to this arrangement of creeps. I thought it would be weird if I just started the video from where trundle died.
+SoloRenektonOnly I didn't mean the flash onto trundle, but I get where I was a bit unclear there my bad. What I meant is when Faker returns, with KFO having set the wave to push into him. At that point when that wave crashes if Ignar had not gotten the wolf spirit showing Kindred definitely never moved through the jungle it's very dangerous for KFO to soak that wave at the end because there's a decent chance Kindred walks through river up through tri bush to dive the turret from behind. If Kindred were to walk up there via tri it's really hard for KFO to get any of that CS because he burned his flash and so Trundle pillar is all it really takes to hinder his escape long enough to die in a 1v2. Since ignar did get the Vision, Kindred definitely wouldn't come via river, so KFO can safely walk to turret and start soaking that wave because if Kindred shows top he has to come via lane and it's much easier to just back up in that scenario, than to escape a pincer gank where Kindred came around through tri and past krugs and faker comes straight on. The vision setup to the play is important and it's often the part you'll notice missing when comparing an LCS player to an LCK player making the same decision.
+SoloRenektonOnly Another interesting aspect of this video is that Faker doesn't use trundles W to push the wave faster. At level 6 he should have at least 1 point in W and 3 points in Q. The point in W provides a bonus of 20% attack speed, this in combination with the AD gained from using Q on minions (30 AD at with 3 points) *should* have easily been enough to push the wave into tower both abilities synergise very well together. As much as this is a great creep wave management from kfo, it is also either poor champion knowledge or a misplay from Faker misplaying.
+Cyraknoss Pretty sure you're giving KFO more credit than he deserves. It's very likely that he was just focusing on the creep management. Plus you're wrong on the fact that Kindred cannot go top without being seen, not all of the entrances from top blue side are covered.
I imagine the reason he chose 3 creeps rather than 2 is because it was around the :15 / :45 mark that he left - I find it mega useful to time your actions along the spawning of creep waves and see how elements of the game play out.
it would have been nice if you put up the scoreboard at the end and at the beginning, for a direct comparison between the creep advantage without having to count each and every one. also it would show in what state the lane was before the fight happened, like if one of them previosly died already.
great explanation. at first i was wondering why not just push the wave under tower before recall. solo renekton says fiora doesn't have items that can push the wave fast. I also want to point out she is low health and the location of enemy jungler (kindred) is not known. I get in this situation a lot where after a kill in lane I am too low too stick around but I want to have the wave pushing to me after I recall and often greed/overstay. gonna try this out in my games!
If I might ask SRO, where did you learn all the nuances of creep waves? How many minions is need to push a lane, how long it takes for a push to be reversed ect. Do you have a playlist dedicated to your videos on managing the creep wave? Would be really helpful to a player looking to take his top lane game to the next level such as myself!
+zorem hualngo any just needed a 3 creep advantage form that point to continue the push imgur.com/2hTFWR6 i made this forever ago when i wrote my creep wave guides this shows what im talking about
+SoloRenektonOnly sup man, great videos, im a renekton main and a haver learn a lot from you, thx :D did you know that the minions will do more damage and recive less damages from enemy creeps when the team has a global lvl lead and/or there are towers destroyed? i mean, it was in a patch note like 2 month ago, and the said it will go live a days later from the patch, in any case, how that change the wave creep management that you're proposing?
+Jim Bob 2 with cannon means that cannon is one of the 2. its because the cannon is stronger then the normal minions so in the blue zone its Cannon + 1 normal (melee or caster) or no cannon + 3 normal minions both equal out to the same amount of pushing power
Great video! What do you use to retrieve and view replays? I've found Replay.gg to be the most reliable but the replays all still crash constantly, or bug out and I can't pause or rewind. You don't seem too concerned about any of that happening in this vid, have you got something more reliable?
Hey nice tip! I was wanting to ask a for a long time but never had the chance. You played nasus a few months back right and could make the very first enemy wave push towards you by geting aggro and going into the bush to reset it but they would all attack the first creep and kill it faster thus making the wave push withe the number advantage, But recently i had some trubles with it and cudn't pull it off the creeps would just scater and dont make a diffrence since the minion pushing patch and was wondering if there is a safe alternative way for nasus players to make the enemy wave push towards you from the start of the game and then just frezze it infront of the tower and just farm until the enemy laner is no longer a threat. TLDR: How do i make the enemy wave push towards your tower from the start of the game example: for nasus players or other champions who cant do a camp lvl 1.
not gonna lie, there was no explaination in this video. U want more ranged creeps on enemy side & less melee creeps on ur side. In this video at 1:40 there are only 3 blue melee creeps and a lot of ranged. vs 3 melee + 5 ranged red. then after clearing low hp ranged blue, he takes out the melees attacking his ranged creeps, whilst letting his red melee die to the ranged blue. As the new waves arrives at 2:15 he again clears 2 melee and 1 ranged. He wants the enemy ranged to deal their dmg on his melee. This takes longer than rangedvranged or meleevranged. But he leaves a lot larger number of enemy ranged to enforce the push. knowing that he has left enough melee and few ranged to last long enough for the next wave to arrive before hitting the turret. again ensuring blue side will push with larger ranged numbers but last long enough by again ranged hitting his new wave's melee. its down to melee having more hp and less dmg being hit by more dmg from a source where hp is irrelevant[ranged] as they are not being attacked.
where is this play record so that i may see trundles experience. I would like to know what trundles exp was at the ending of that play. I have a hunch that his exp is almost done lvling up therefore lvl 7 to 8. With that said it would be behind but at a slightly better situation than what you have described.
if fiora can't clear the wave fast enough, how can we get the creeps at the very end when they are pushing towards her tower? won't the creeps die to the tower before she can kill all of them
Hello! I want to ask you about subtitle. I want to make it for Russian Community, but asI can see you did not allowed this for your video. Can you give permission for this? Really thanks for such a useful stuff!
+Jonathan Hendricks Yes, because even if Trundle was quick enough to push it to tower, I'm pretty sure Fiora would lose like max like 1 melee creep and 1 canon creep till she would got into exp range (mby she would even get exp from canon) and still possibility to get gold at least half of them (5) so she would still get pretty big advantage in both exp and gold (gold + exp from kill and creep advantage even before backing).
+Dinakol go to op.gg and just seach for kfo on the korean ladder. Then in his match history you just click "watch replay" and it downloads a bat file and you open and it opens your league game and puts you in the games loading screen in spectate mode . This game is the second one on his page against fakers trundle
not in this exemple because it would take too much time to fiora to shove the lane, so she decided to control the wave towards her tower , so she doesn't lose too much minions. It's situational and depends also on the junglers and the champions you and your opponents are playing.
What I dont understand.. When The enemie is backing, why cant You just push the lane so the tower kills his minions instead of freezing it and get 3 creep advantage. I dont get that.. Mostly bc im german :(
im mostly playing w/ Darius. The lane is at tower in 5sec and he cant get to this tower without tp in time i think and btw good video even if i didnt understand everything xd
@Nachtarios But.. you don't. If you push them in, but you don't push all the way, the trundle can just freeze the wave on you. Unless you have a lot of waveclear, pushing the wave after a kill can be dangerous, but you usually want to do it.
The Mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell
yes it is ap zac guide eh
Ah i see u are a man of culture aswell...
Oh good genji is here
This is a really good explanation of the creep management but I feel like the explanation of the play is incomplete without mentioning the vision control aspect to it. Ignar smiting blue team wolves solidifies this entire play. It creates the knowledge that Faker's jungler is not top side at all, so KFO can safely build a wave that crashes on his tower when he returns with no TP and not get forced off the wave. Without the knowledge that Kindred won't be coming it's dangerous to do this as no flash vs trundle is very dangerous for Fiora when she's stuck in a 1v2.
Since the wolf spirit is there, the vision combined with the wave management result in the sort of unanswerable capitalization top Korean players are known for.
+Cyraknoss True, but I think he only wanted to show the creep wave part not the entire play. The tower dive was just for show, the real play he was explaining was the creep wave management.
+Cullen Power Exactly the kill was just to show the situation that lead to this arrangement of creeps. I thought it would be weird if I just started the video from where trundle died.
+SoloRenektonOnly I didn't mean the flash onto trundle, but I get where I was a bit unclear there my bad. What I meant is when Faker returns, with KFO having set the wave to push into him. At that point when that wave crashes if Ignar had not gotten the wolf spirit showing Kindred definitely never moved through the jungle it's very dangerous for KFO to soak that wave at the end because there's a decent chance Kindred walks through river up through tri bush to dive the turret from behind. If Kindred were to walk up there via tri it's really hard for KFO to get any of that CS because he burned his flash and so Trundle pillar is all it really takes to hinder his escape long enough to die in a 1v2.
Since ignar did get the Vision, Kindred definitely wouldn't come via river, so KFO can safely walk to turret and start soaking that wave because if Kindred shows top he has to come via lane and it's much easier to just back up in that scenario, than to escape a pincer gank where Kindred came around through tri and past krugs and faker comes straight on. The vision setup to the play is important and it's often the part you'll notice missing when comparing an LCS player to an LCK player making the same decision.
+SoloRenektonOnly Another interesting aspect of this video is that Faker doesn't use trundles W to push the wave faster. At level 6 he should have at least 1 point in W and 3 points in Q.
The point in W provides a bonus of 20% attack speed, this in combination with the AD gained from using Q on minions (30 AD at with 3 points) *should* have easily been enough to push the wave into tower both abilities synergise very well together.
As much as this is a great creep wave management from kfo, it is also either poor champion knowledge or a misplay from Faker misplaying.
+Cyraknoss Pretty sure you're giving KFO more credit than he deserves.
It's very likely that he was just focusing on the creep management.
Plus you're wrong on the fact that Kindred cannot go top without being seen, not all of the entrances from top blue side are covered.
and then the jungler comes and eats all the minions u saved -_-
@@lucasfer9974 there are two inescapable things in life.. death and minion tax.
tanko.gaming lol
Faker miss canon Reported...
"korean mechanics, yikes"
+Fremy Gonzales Is this THE FREMY?!?!?!?
Oh look at that, Mike and Faker have a thing in common, they miss cannons.
Chloe Canary I just saw your comment lol xD
jesus dude, I have never even thought of that type of stuff. That is such a minor detail I never would've picked up on by myself
I would dead ass upvote, comment, repost like and subscribe for more good content like this.
+Raion Moi no balls you wont
excellent analysis and very very good video idea! keep it up, appreciate it
I imagine the reason he chose 3 creeps rather than 2 is because it was around the :15 / :45 mark that he left - I find it mega useful to time your actions along the spawning of creep waves and see how elements of the game play out.
another one of good quality most viewed videos of SRO channel
it would have been nice if you put up the scoreboard at the end and at the beginning, for a direct comparison between the creep advantage without having to count each and every one.
also it would show in what state the lane was before the fight happened, like if one of them previosly died already.
Great vid. I'd watch more of these for sure
great explanation. at first i was wondering why not just push the wave under tower before recall. solo renekton says fiora doesn't have items that can push the wave fast. I also want to point out she is low health and the location of enemy jungler (kindred) is not known. I get in this situation a lot where after a kill in lane I am too low too stick around but I want to have the wave pushing to me after I recall and often greed/overstay. gonna try this out in my games!
If I might ask SRO, where did you learn all the nuances of creep waves? How many minions is need to push a lane, how long it takes for a push to be reversed ect. Do you have a playlist dedicated to your videos on managing the creep wave? Would be really helpful to a player looking to take his top lane game to the next level such as myself!
only 3 caster creeps to push or any 3 creeps?
+zorem hualngo any just needed a 3 creep advantage form that point to continue the push imgur.com/2hTFWR6 i made this forever ago when i wrote my creep wave guides this shows what im talking about
+SoloRenektonOnly thanks buddy
+SoloRenektonOnly is the 2 w/ cannon , 1 melee/caster + cannon or 2 creeps and cannon for total of 3?? its about pushing into the blue zone.
+SoloRenektonOnly sup man, great videos, im a renekton main and a haver learn a lot from you, thx :D did you know that the minions will do more damage and recive less damages from enemy creeps when the team has a global lvl lead and/or there are towers destroyed? i mean, it was in a patch note like 2 month ago, and the said it will go live a days later from the patch, in any case, how that change the wave creep management that you're proposing?
+Jim Bob 2 with cannon means that cannon is one of the 2. its because the cannon is stronger then the normal minions so in the blue zone its Cannon + 1 normal (melee or caster) or no cannon + 3 normal minions both equal out to the same amount of pushing power
nice! watched a couple videos and finnaly learned something from this video.
This is so godlike, congratz
Very good, helpful, educational video.
Nice and short one pointer!
great help. how about a video pointing out creep wave mistakes that midlevel (plat-diamond) players do?
Please do more videos like this
3:00 "korean mechanics" dude i fucking love you
Great video! What do you use to retrieve and view replays? I've found Replay.gg to be the most reliable but the replays all still crash constantly, or bug out and I can't pause or rewind. You don't seem too concerned about any of that happening in this vid, have you got something more reliable?
Did you happen to have the VOD of the remaining match? Curious to see how the game played out.
Hey nice tip!
I was wanting to ask a for a long time but never had the chance. You played nasus a few months back right and could make the very first enemy wave push towards you by geting aggro and going into the bush to reset it but they would all attack the first creep and kill it faster thus making the wave push withe the number advantage, But recently i had some trubles with it and cudn't pull it off the creeps would just scater and dont make a diffrence since the minion pushing patch and was wondering if there is a safe alternative way for nasus players to make the enemy wave push towards you from the start of the game and then just frezze it infront of the tower and just farm until the enemy laner is no longer a threat.
TLDR:
How do i make the enemy wave push towards your tower from the start of the game
example: for nasus players or other champions who cant do a camp lvl 1.
wonder if my dad renekton will see this 1 year later
nice video, you should do more stuff like this
great video bro, how does the new minions push harder when winning works?
not gonna lie, there was no explaination in this video.
U want more ranged creeps on enemy side & less melee creeps on ur side. In this video at 1:40 there are only 3 blue melee creeps and a lot of ranged. vs 3 melee + 5 ranged red.
then after clearing low hp ranged blue, he takes out the melees attacking his ranged creeps, whilst letting his red melee die to the ranged blue. As the new waves arrives at 2:15 he again clears 2 melee and 1 ranged. He wants the enemy ranged to deal their dmg on his melee. This takes longer than rangedvranged or meleevranged. But he leaves a lot larger number of enemy ranged to enforce the push. knowing that he has left enough melee and few ranged to last long enough for the next wave to arrive before hitting the turret. again ensuring blue side will push with larger ranged numbers but last long enough by again ranged hitting his new wave's melee. its down to melee having more hp and less dmg being hit by more dmg from a source where hp is irrelevant[ranged] as they are not being attacked.
Dude, thank you. Really great.
where is this play record so that i may see trundles experience. I would like to know what trundles exp was at the ending of that play. I have a hunch that his exp is almost done lvling up therefore lvl 7 to 8. With that said it would be behind but at a slightly better situation than what you have described.
if fiora can't clear the wave fast enough, how can we get the creeps at the very end when they are pushing towards her tower? won't the creeps die to the tower before she can kill all of them
Hello! I want to ask you about subtitle. I want to make it for Russian Community, but asI can see you did not allowed this for your video. Can you give permission for this?
Really thanks for such a useful stuff!
Just a question. Are you full time streaming/youtube right now?
you need to work on your sound wave management.
lmao what?
And when your lane pushes u simply clear it all and b?
don't know if you covered this but what if kfo was facing like a renekton or something that had good push. would you still get an advantage?
+Jonathan Hendricks Yes, because even if Trundle was quick enough to push it to tower, I'm pretty sure Fiora would lose like max like 1 melee creep and 1 canon creep till she would got into exp range (mby she would even get exp from canon) and still possibility to get gold at least half of them (5) so she would still get pretty big advantage in both exp and gold (gold + exp from kill and creep advantage even before backing).
Do you have a link to the video of the game? And how do you watch replays of Korean players on your PC?
+Dinakol go to op.gg and just seach for kfo on the korean ladder. Then in his match history you just click "watch replay" and it downloads a bat file and you open and it opens your league game and puts you in the games loading screen in spectate mode . This game is the second one on his page against fakers trundle
+Dinakol Faker streamed it on azubu. You can watch a VOD.
I dont quite understand: Didn´t you say you should always shove the lane after getting a kill in your lane control video?
not in this exemple because it would take too much time to fiora to shove the lane, so she decided to control the wave towards her tower , so she doesn't lose too much minions. It's situational and depends also on the junglers and the champions you and your opponents are playing.
Indeed, however since the wave was too big and Fiora's clear is garbage without tiamat, she decided to leave 3 minions extr.
that was beautiful
hey sounds alot like the guy who does kahn academy!
when he dies without tp is it better to clear or to freeze?
This is important
Echo fox top laner beats faker.
WORLD'S CONFIRMED BOYZ
It was 7 on 7 in the creep wave bro.
Good content!
did kfo team win?
good vid.
good video, thanks
2:58 faker isnt even trying to smash those creeps lol
What I dont understand.. When The enemie is backing, why cant You just push the lane so the tower kills his minions instead of freezing it and get 3 creep advantage. I dont get that.. Mostly bc im german :(
you cant push it fast enough he gets back in time and gets more creeps then if you freeze
im mostly playing w/ Darius. The lane is at tower in 5sec and he cant get to this tower without tp in time i think
and btw good video even if i didnt understand everything xd
+Nachtarios well, darius has really good waveclear because of his q, but fiora doesnt have a good waveclear ability
so now that I have improved so much, i know that you should always push the lane b4 you back, no matter what champ
@Nachtarios
But.. you don't. If you push them in, but you don't push all the way, the trundle can just freeze the wave on you.
Unless you have a lot of waveclear, pushing the wave after a kill can be dangerous, but you usually want to do it.
Nice video. Subbed.
wowwwwwww
i'm watching in this moment you vs boxbox :D
and u've just destroyed him fiora vs riven with ur awesome skin
2:59 Korean mechonics :)
solorenektononly says korean mechanics lel
Yeah but Faker plays insanely different in skrims and play offs
You don't even need cs when you are playing as Fiora, just farm Champions.
Can I get to diamond by mastering this shit? (:D Or Do I need more (Pleb Plat here looking to reach Diamond)
first i need to learn how to last hit lmao in bronze there's no such a thing as MANAGEMENT pls all we do is kill, like bloodthirsty hounds
Its funny because he lost that game :D
But Faker won this game.....
That's not the point of this video scrub
Korean mechanics.
classic NA faker kappa
He still lost that game..zzz