My female infp co-worker who i like (im a male intp) sometimes just like randomly stares at me from like far away for like 10 seconds. I catch her like calmly looking at me and i sort of feel a strange connection/feeling thing, then i look away with a sort of confused look on my face then look back and shes still staring at me...then she looks away and carries on with what she is doing (sometimes theres more repetitions of me looking away and looking back). Im starting to think she likes me but sometimes i think she thinks im an asshole. One day she seems to laugh at everything i say (i am literally just trying to be her friend) and the next its like she hates me. Maybe she doesnt want to lead me on or something. She probs knows that i like her i think its probably obvious. She looks so beautiful sometimes when she is talking to me and i just like observing her and feeling her vibes.
Ask her out Snudge! She might be pulling away because she thinks you're not interested in her and she's doesn't want to risk being rejected by you. She might feel embarrassed because she feels she's clearly communicated to you that she likes you, and you haven't responded and now she's over-thinking every single interaction, probably cringing at every little thing she has said during your talks that didn't come out quite right...and thinks you clearly think she's an idiot and don't like her...lol. Or maybe not...but the only way to know for sure is to take the plunge and make the first move :) if she turns you down, I promise you...it may feel like the end of the world...but it's not...you'll get over it :) It really is the opportunities we didn't have the courage to go for that we regret as we get older....not the times we maybe looked foolish by putting ourselves out there and being rejected. Like water off a duck's back Snudge. Go for it!
Don't idealize and obsess over her from afar! Make a move, be clear, take a leap of faith (she isn't perfect btw, I know INTPs tend to woo over their crushes).
Good advice thanks. Im in no rush to get into a relationship or anything. She seems to be a highly sensitive person and i think she understands and is aware of alot of things. I guess i do idolise her to a certain extent. She has a very different vibe or aura than pretty much everyone ive ever met. Its like she has this sort of openess and softness to her. Maybe i am attracted to her because i had a poor relationship with my mum and maybe she has some sort of loving maternal type quality that ive never really experienced and long for in some way. Maybe thats selfish of me to expect that from someone but its more unconscious i suppose. My intention is really just to be her friend and spend more time with her if possible, just simple things like go for a walk and talk about stuff etc. Maybe shes had this experience before and is like "i better not lead this guy on too much or he will fall in love with me and it will be super akward at work". Lol. I dont really have any agenda with these comments either just interesting seeing other infps view points about this type of situation.
But thanks for the encouragement. In a way i would like to improve my life situation first like get a better job and better place to live etc. Before asking her out.
Ok I know this comment is a year ago but, as a female INFP I think she’s just in a stage of denial, she probably likes you too and is looking at you imagining what you could be but doesn’t want to admit it to herself for her own reasons that’s why she’s trying to push you away of sorts.
I damn near died when she said to tell us “I don’t need you to solve this problem, I’m just telling you how I feel” 😨 Unsolvable feelings are the stuff of nightmares. To me every emotion that isn’t enjoyable is a problem that needs to be solved.
@@ChaoticallyMe haha! It does! I don’t even know where to start! It’s like trying the maze on the fruit loops box but the trick is there’s literally no escape. Everything is a socially disappointing dead end. 😂 I’m not callous - just obtuse.
I think for me, I went undiagnosed because my lack of attention wasn't necessarily obvious....and/or I was quiet and it was just easiest for teacher's to leave me be. There were a few occasions when I was 'caught' in primary school for daydreaming and not doing what I was meant to be doing....but I did it so quietly and I always got excellent grades (regardless of not actually putting in any effort) that they just didn't want any drama I guess? INFPs...the masters of conflict avoidance ;) I did skip school A LOT, starting in 6th grade and at it's worst in 9th grade (basically I skipped 6 months of school that year, and I was responsible for them changing the school policies on truancy ;) I'd attend on Monday and Thursday most weeks and skip Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Fridays, lol)....I'd also purposefully leave assignments until the night before they were due...then I'd pull an all nighter just for the thrill of it. I was convinced I did better work waiting until the night before it was due because it was a manic journey of hyper-focus to get it done in time. If I attempted to start an assignment when it was first given to us, I just couldn't concentrate and was 'bored'....I had to wait till it was an emergency in order for me to focus. I was an early adopter of the wonders of the Internet in the 90s (from age 12), so I just stayed up all night, every night chatting to people all over the world (mostly on Instant Messengers, but I had a few American friends that would call me on my home phone and a few pen pals too)...I'd only going to school when I felt I had to (to slide under the radar, not rock the boat too much) and/or if there was something fun/interesting I wanted to go to school specifically for that day (debate club was fun....art and drama had their positive points...but not always...and I adored history). Not surprisingly I didn't finish school. I've felt pretty crap about myself for all these years for that reason. I guess it is an ego driven thing in some ways? Because being a drop out leaves people making assumptions about you, ya know? I knew I was intelligent....I just couldn't concentrate in class and had no direction or long term goals to speak of (one teacher out of frustration asked me as a 14 year old, 'where do you want to be in 5 years Jenny?'...I responded with, 'dead'....and she said, 'don't be ridiculous' and stormed off....end of conversation!)...School and I ended up not working out for 3 main reasons: mind-numbing-makes-me-want-to-scream-boredom, a strong distaste for the thoughtless and meaningless rules and restrictions school placed on me and maybe most importantly...my disappointment in the so called 'teachers' I was meant to respect and learn from (I could see through them, their gossiping in the staff room about certain students, their putting their emotional baggage on the students like we were the problem, their 'teaching' being purely to meet the bare minimum requirements of their profession so they could 'stay employed' by a pretty awful private school that was taking all our parents money and giving a sub-par education to all). I might finally have the level of concentration now to complete some form of education?? I'm 1/2 way through a Diploma of Counselling....which is the longest I've stuck with anything (a whole year!)....and all together I have almost the first year of a Bachelors Degree (I've picked up a few subjects here and there over the years....I did Introduction to Programming and Introduction to Java at uni back in 2008, but hated it (despite getting a Distinction...sigh...I can do things well when I'm 'in the zone' but once I fall out of like or love with something....it's just gone...), then I did Anthropology in 2013, but only one unit (loved it!!!) and then a unit in Sociology (hated it, I love the 'Sociological Imagination' it claimed to be teaching us....but hated the crap they were shoving down our throats and insisting we swallow completely despite the big gaping holes I identified and attempting to discuss...I never got any satisfaction or really had anyone engage with me.....excerpts from books we were given as readings to then discuss were incomplete and didn't give the whole picture....they were giving the students carefully selected source material to make us feel 'well read' but they painted a very specific narrative and I despised the manipulation and lack of authenticity (if we're all just stroking each others egos for repeating the same false or incomplete crap back and forth...can we at least be honest about it and not pretend we're using the scientific method? hmmm?...). Have gone on a rant...sorry! lol. Would love to hear about your own experiences with your undiagnosed ADHD? Schooling was the easiest area of life for me to quantify it's effects.....but I think it contributed to my struggles with parenting over the years....and definitely played into my chronic sleep deprivation (compulsively consuming more and more media and information...if I didn't have enough time during the day with looking after the kids, I'd stay up all night to try and cram it in...which then spilled over into the next day not having enough sleep or being able to concentrate...and the so the cycle continued). If you don't feel comfy in the comments but still want to chat about it, I can write you a novel via email....obviously ;) My email addy is on my About page of my channel if you ever want to chat that way Friar :) :)
Jen the INFP - Chaotically Minimal ha ha this is how I know you’re an INFP for reals - the ability to bust out big chunks of words when the topic feels important 🤗 - I do it too, on occasion. I can look back a fair way, oversensitivity or HSP has always been present for me even as an infant and toddler. Overstimulation was easily achieved and I hated conflict of any kind. I was linguistically gifted, I was reading adult newspapers by age five. I made my own toys out of paper and glue which was just as well, my parents were always broke. I went through the reading material of year one, two and three in the first six months of year one (first grade) and unfortunately they decided, since they were all out of books, to have me re-read the year one material, and I refused. That’s where the trouble started. By year four (fourth grade) I was having trouble in maths because my brain just didn’t seem to work in that area, and I went from being bored of school to being terrified by it... I was always either far ahead or far behind my subjects, depending on if it was maths or anything else. Nothing ever seemed to fit. I had my first panic attacks in fifth grade over math and I just felt a lot of shame and I knew I didn’t belong in normal society, that I was some bent up genius idiot who was clearly not normal. Mom was too busy supporting the family and dad was too busy being a narcissist for them to see what was happening. I think I managed to be able to hyperfocus on reading and humanities because I’d always enjoyed them before I went to school, but maths were intolerable in any doseage. I did well in high school, even though I was socially inept, I did manage to graduate. I got accepted into an art and design college but the environment was so unstructured compared to high school that I fell apart several times over. The adhd had me going in ten directions at once except for what I should have been doing, and the time blindness (only being able to deal with what’s in front of our faces, not think ahead) was killing me. All nighters were common and my grades slipped and real depression started setting in, HARD. Still had no idea what was wrong with me, just that I seemed to be pushing against some invisible wall inside myself really hard, and that my friends didn’t seem to have this problem. I graduated, got lots of jobs, lost them all, shame was beginning to be a full time companion, this was the RSD (Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria) starting to erode and evaporate any sense of self I had left. I started traveling which I loved, but it didn’t matter where I went, the problems returned after the newness of the place wore off. My relationships sucked, I was disconnected and dissociative, spacey and fearful. Eventually I couldn’t seem to do anything right. When my last major relationship exploded like the Death Star, after years of severe anxiety and panic attacks and a life where every day was emotional and psychological torment, including several very serious moments of thinking that the world and I would be better off if I left, I decided to just hit the brakes on everything and figure out what the hell was wrong with me, no matter where it went. I went to therapy, got drugs, studied relationship psychology, abnormal psychology, went to various flavors of group therapy, devoured stacks of books, studied Meyers Briggs and Enneagram and codependency and adult children of alcoholics and mystery religions and put together a pretty thorough map of my mind and soul. I still had a few questions left though, and it was a Lex Morningstar video about Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria that laid in the final pieces. It’s a brilliant video and it gave words to that wall I’d pushed against my whole life. I binge watched a lot of Russell A Barkley videos on ADHD and SCT and I had the answers. ADHD brains don’t process dopamine, serotonin, glucose or adrenaline well enough so we have to “cram them” to feel normal. We therefore are prone to anxiety and depression, we seek out serotonin and other happy drugs through substances or experiences, we cannot tolerate non-happy drug making circumstances, we flit from thing to thing or place to place or even from stress to stress to get dopamine or adrenaline in large enough quantities to feel ANY kind of pleasure and we cram foods to get at least SOME glucose to the brain. We like salty food as a substitute for the electrolyte compounds we need for brain function. Our executive function brain is divorced from the other parts of the brain, so we know a lot but have a hard time acting on it before we go hunting dopamine. We feel shame over our failings in life which becomes RSD so in the early stages of RSD we can become codependent people pleasers, in later stages we just give up on life entirely because we believe we will never get anything right. We also become time blind, so any dopamine generating activities (video games, UA-cam, good books, Netflix) will eat hours or days or years... and bedtimes are rarely honored. I’m working on ways to get around these things so I can have a decent life for the first time ever... small tasks, gamification of my time management, index cards with tasks written on them and placed at the “point of performance” (where I am physically when I need to do those tasks) and very serious self accountability in my journal which I live in, all day every day, to track my habits and my productivity, which is finally growing again. Exercise, multiple meditations a day, my mystic practices and a lot of Priestess Tufti style consciousness exercises, these keep me together. I’m still kind of mourning the life I could have had if my parents had seen the signs, or if anyone else had told me. But, here I am, and it is what it is. I left out many gory details and horror stories but this is the main thrust of it, condensed as best as an INFP is able. If you read the whole thing, I appreciate it. Sorry for the delay, I had to think a bit about how best to tell the tale. 🥰😌🙏🏻thank you for reading and for sharing so much with me ❤️
Thank you so much for sharing your story Friar!! I've just read it for the 3rd time and can relate to so much of what you mentioned. I'm so glad you've figured so much of this stuff out and have found strategies that are working for you. I'm still hugely a work in practice...and a lot of days it just feels pretty hopeless that I'll ever be 'better'... Life is a bit of an emotional rollercoaster at the moment, but I like to think I'm dealing with it better than I would have in the past. Progress is progress I guess, even if we're not where we'd like to be...yet! 💖💖💖
Jen the INFP - Chaotically Minimal - thank you for reading, I know it’s a lot. I appreciate it hugely ❤️ I really know the hopeless feeling, like somehow life is just not going to work out. It will, if we accept that we have to make changes based on our unique needs and not how the world, or even we, think that things “should be” based on “what’s normal.” I’m sorry about the emotional rollercoaster. Things are all upended. I work very hard every day to keep my emotional center. The Russell A Barkley videos really were the key for me, to understand that my brain wants sugar (hello carbs!) and adrenaline and dopamine and serotonin, and doesn’t get them in the quantity other brains do, and my brain seeks them out (especially as the day wears on... night snacking, anyone?) and that I get terribly lost in activities, forget to stop, hate to start, switch before I’m finished, and generally make a hash of things. If I can see myself doing those things, and make strategic and structural changes to the way I do LITERALLY EVERYTHING, then I have a chance 😇
I’ve noticed the difference between INTP and INFP in terms of preferences of communication that you mentioned. From an INTPs perspective, we like accuracy, both from how we receive information and how we give it. So we like to give enough context so the depth to arrive at accuracy is also correct. We tend to think through things a lot because we think it’s necessary to arrive at the best answers to the topic, and we feel others should be given that, too. I’ve noticed INFPs are not as interested in communication like this or it comes off this way whether it’s true or not. I’m pretty sure it’s Ti-Fe vs Fi-Te. Not so surprising, I’ve tended to form bonds with INFPs over Ne in an art context. Art, music, etc. I think that is where we overlap the most. The search for novelty, Aux Ne, etc. I remember talking to an INFP once about how I think, and they commented that is why we have a certain intellect. I asked them to describe how they think, and they said it was just like clouds in their head. Not saying they do not think as much, but perhaps a gears vs. clouds metaphor is appropriate, and that’s how it comes across to each.
Gears vs clouds....I like it :) For me, I'm fairly sure I have undiagnosed ADHD...so often those clouds cram on in there, layering upon one another, each new cloud attempting to crowd out the existing ones....and I struggle to keep track or work my way back through them all.... At times it's not so much like clouds....but more like a tendril of thought that spirals out of control and ends somewhere completely out of place to where it began. For me I often can't remember where it began.....whereas INTPs seem to create a mind map for you of the idea they're discussing and could take you back through the first part if you didn't quite catch it.....for me, I may not remember the beginning of the thought....it's more about the journey and the exploration rather than tying it down... I agree, INFPs and INTPs can have a lot of fun exploring their Aux Ne together :) :) Thank you for sharing your observations and perspectives! I really appreciate it :) :)
We like blunt. I like your frame approach, but honestly, you can let it rip on us. We can handle it if it’s direct, but like you said, if it’s in code, we are not mind readers
I enjoy watching and learning about briggs personality types but I still can't figure out mine.. lol but I learned behaviors to fit into the world.. lol
Hey Heather!! I've missed you :) :) How have you and your family been? Not to worry on not being able to figure yours out....it doesn't really change anything anyway! lol. It's more for me a fun language to communicate about aspects of the experience of being human, I think. A lot we can all relate to regardless of personality type. My family are sick of hearing about mbti I think. In the past few days I had a massive realisation, that I thought was well summed up by MBTI but my hubby disagrees (that or he just is so over MBTI talk that he wanted to shut it down...lol). So basically we sleep on a thin, roll up mattress on the floor each night and it gets hung up to get aired out almost every day (it's high humidity where we are), so every morning I fold up our bedding into piles and then before bed 'make the bed' again. We're both bed hogs so my hubby and I have separate blankets and sheets (and pillows obviously). So when I fold all the bedding up, I place them in two piles (one for his stuff and one for mine) before rolling up the mattress. Usually I make the bed back up before we go to bed at night but occasionally I'll fall asleep in front of the tv or I'm up later than hubby so he makes up the bed. It really irks me when I go in to find my blankets on his side or the 'laying on top of sheet' has been replaced with my sheet and I now have the 'laying on top of' sheet as my sheet (yeah I know it doesn't sound like much....but I like the sheet that I put up to my face whilst I'm sleeping to be my nice clean sheet...ya know?). So whenever this happens I just get annoyed...and don't say anything....lol. But I was groggy the other night and I made a comment and re-did it in front of him. I then felt bad the next day for making him feel bad when he was just being helpful and laying out the bed for me....and because I was editing one of these videos where I was talking about our Inferior functions, it suddenly dawned on me......I called my hubby into the bedroom where I had made the usual 'piles' of bedding that morning and I asked him, 'hey, when you see these piles here, do you realise that they have been organised in any particular way?'.....he answered, 'huh? no...what do you mean...?' So basically all this time I've been getting irked because I perceive him not respecting my bedding and using it willy nilly for whatever purpose he desires (total over-reaction, but that's how I feel when I see my clean sheet being put somewhere it shouldn't....lol).....he didn't even realise we had set bedding....lol. *face palm* I think it might be a Te thing....because if I'm going to bother putting the bedding in piles, those piles will be organised in a certain way, ya know? If we're just throwing crap in the corner today because we're in a hurry to get somewhere then that's cool too...that's not organised....but if I go to the trouble of folding and piling them in separate piles, they will be organised in some way. I don't particularly like this menial task...but if I'm going to do it, it will have at least a tentatively hanging on kind of system to it. I then asked my ISFP son the same question about when he sees these piles placed here... (he has Te in the same slot as me) and my INTP son (same type as his Dad and does not use Te) and my theory on Te assuming a system and Ti not bothering to consider either way seemed to pan out (admittedly very small sample size...and we are all related...lol).....however my hubby thinks it's not MBTI related at all and that I've just learned a system from somewhere and that it's unreasonable for me to expect him to know my system without telling him (oops!). I just assumed that if you see piles made by another person that you would assume there was a reason for them doing it that way, and if you can't figure it out, ask.......but that's my cognitive bias I think....because that's not how he works!! Sorry have rambled on a lot there! lol. All that to say, that me knowing his MBTI type and mine is probably irrelevant.....communicating with him when he kept messing with my bedding and it was irking me would have solved the problem a lot quicker than me having an MBTI lightbulb moment and realising his ignoring of Te might be to blame for him not respecting the 'system'...haha!
@@ChaoticallyMe we are all do very well here. I have to say as husbands go in don't think they see things as we do. I also think husbands don't hear like we do. I find I talk a lot but no one is listening... Lol
@@ChaoticallyMe yes that my me too. Or they say I'm being to bossy. However if a man said the same thing it no big thing. Miss you. Hope your family is well
lately Ive been a mute (INFP) towards my fiance (INTP).. I dont feel like talking for whatever reason, but he always wants to hear about my day. today i told him "if i wanted you to know about my day i wouldve told you..." and i've told him already in the past couple week that i feel like he's forcing me. i already dont like being told what i should do, so with his asking about my day, daily i feel that he doesnt care how i feel.
I understand completely where you're coming from...sometimes we're just in feelings hermit mode. It does sound like maybe your INTP senses you're going through a down patch/funk and he doesn't know how to help, so he may be trying to pull you out of yourself a little? I get why you'd be hurt that he doesn't respect that you don't want to talk about how your day has gone. Have you outright told him that though, because telling an INTP 'if I wanted you to know about my day I would've told you' unfortunately for us does not translate to, 'I don't like it when you ask to hear about my day'. I have a habit of thinking my INTP should be able to just 'read' between the lines and that my emotions are so big and obvious that if he's not getting it he just doesn't care....but in reality our inner emotional landscape is probably quite subtle to an external observer...AND...working out how someone is feeling is not the INTPs strong suit anyways! You kind of have to be really literal and clear with them. Eg. I'm sorry I've been so cranky about you asking me how my day has been, I'm feeling really emotionally introverted at the moment...I'm in a bit of a funk...but if you give me some space I'm sure I'll be over it in a bit. I still love you though and want to spend time with you, I just don't want to talk about me right now'. Your INTP might just want to feel close to you, and may be feeling like you've become really distant. Even a simple, 'I don't want to talk about me right now, I'm in a funk, but hey...do you want to watch a movie and cuddle?'...might be helpful? Sorry you're going through a frustrating patch at the moment, relationships can be so hard and hurtful even when it's something minor in the grand scheme of things :(
Met my fiance while playing mmorpg. I am infp, he's intp. Ur chances r high. Keep going. But make a move. Infps r shy pokemon and only Will show interest if the other one shows interest too. Then throw the pokeball at a wild infp, maybe u catch a shiny one
Oh she says how she's feeling on and on and criticizing me at the same time and then the you won't and you refuse you never phrases come out and then I'm pissed and let her know to just walk away and she won't she will keep at it
I hear you Jon, relationships are tough! I can completely relate to the interaction you're describing. It's especially hard when you legitimately don't know why the person is upset and instead of telling you exactly what's happened, they go on a rant and somehow drag your past mistakes into it. If you can bear it, sometimes just saying something like, 'I hear you, I'm sorry you're feeling upset right now' can diffuse the situation. Often people just need to talk through their feelings without judgement and come to their own conclusions...they just need to use the other person as a sounding board to figure it out for themselves. I get that when someone is verbally abusing you though, that's the last kind of comfort you want to offer them.....but if it's a relationship that you want to really have a go at maintaining...then being the calm one willing to humble themselves and listen can be a good idea. Also, I like to see it as a mini experiment...just to see what happens, ya know? If arguments always play out the same way over and over...what would happen if one person tried something different? Often one person learning better communication skills can make all the difference. In what you described, I do find that calm 'I' statements are much more effective than upset or heated 'you' statements (eg. you won't, you refuse). So rather than the 'you never listen to me', instead a calm 'I feel disappointed when I'm talking and I see you turn and look at the tv. It makes me feel like the things I say don't matter, and that really gets me down'. It is more constructive, it's specific and it allows the person using the 'I' statement to actually really think about what it is they're upset about. Also, by staying calm, the other person who keeps looking at the tv can then respond calmly....they may legit not have realised that them looking at the tv irks the other person and they think they're listening fine, 'oh I didn't realise it made you feel bad, I'll try and look at you whilst you're talking in future.' Or alternately, maybe they can communicate honestly and say, 'yeah I'm sorry about that, it's just that I'm really exhausted when I first walk in the door from work and I don't have the head space to listen to you properly. Could we put a pin in this and talk properly in an hour?'. Flinging accusations is you putting it into the other persons court and wanting them to deal with all these bad feelings you're having (which are probably more to do with you than they actually are to do with the person you're yelling at). By trying to articulate how it's effecting you personally, I think it's more helpful. Of course, even then...you have to be okay with the other person not feeling like talking right now. Gah, relationship hey! So many variables...so much potential for misunderstandings and pain. It all comes back to those effective communication skills...and each partner developing themselves separate to their relationship with their partner (so having good boundaries for example, so that you can make a decision about what kind of treatment/things you're okay with in the relationship, and what things you're not).....all those things are definitely easier said than done though!
@@ChaoticallyMe oh I've tried and I've tried to explain to her, in the least INTP I can......I think anyway, one issue is when I do finally get a chance to speak she will cut me off not necessarily with saying I'm lying but something along the lines of thinking she knows what I'm saying and then it starts into an argument about how doesn't listen to what I have to say and she says she's trying to but I'm not saying anything and I say that's what I'm doing but you cutting me off why can't you just listen to everything I have to say then she's like fine go ahead say it then if you really have a point go ahead I'm listening but at that point, I'm like fuck that if you really cared and were listening you wouldn't interrupt me. It's really a thing, and it's to the point where I want to be left alone and when she starts talking about anything I check out, I don't care to hear it because I'm tried of not being heard so why listen to her and I've brought this up and she says it's because I do it to her and it becomes another thing and if I suggest that we try a clean slate and from this point on we communicate with each other as if we didn't do that to each other, and that's when she says oh so we are still gonna do things your way....11 years doing it your way hasn't gotten very far
Wow, sometimes I'm not 100% sure that the person commenting is actually in an INFP-INTP relationship (i.e they may have mistyped themselves or their partner....and they may be relating to universal relationship struggles regardless of personality types)....but in this case what you're describing...is EXACTLY the kinds of interactions my INTP and I have at times! It's actually why I would never openly recommend INTP-INFP as a good pairing...we have the same kinds of conflict you're describing...and there's just no middle ground to be found. Your INFP cutting you off because she thinks she already knows what you're going to say, I'm so guilty of doing this! Then when I do finally want to hear what my INTP has to say, him throwing his hands in the air and refusing to say it...aaaah so frustrating but understandable from his (and your) perspective! This is so scarily accurate of how wrong an INFP-INTP relationship can go... My hubby and I when we bought our house last year actually split our finances (for the first time since we got married 17 years ago) and after giving the kids their room, we split the rest of the living areas/bedrooms between us. So I have my own bedroom and little study nook...and he has the main living room and the small bedroom as his own. The kitchen is the shared space we all congregate...or outside on the deck :) We usually still sleep together each night (either in my room or in his room - we sleep on a roll out futon so it can easily be moved)...but we each have our own space. It's not perfect...and a bit heartbreaking at times (more I don't know what to think of it? does this make me a failure?)....but it was the best way to avoid arguments and to keep our close friendship that was the reason we got together in the first place. We had so many arguments about finances over the years (both terrible at keeping track of incomings and outgoings consistently...) and I was always complaining about him not giving me enough space (INTPs talk through things out loud a lot more than INFPs! and my INTP can be abit overbearing with his opinions...and I feel overwhelmed) so this is how my INTP hubby solved the problem. Less arguments, more individual space and time. Not going to put it out there as a recommendation though, because who knows how this will play out in the long run! As my INTP put it before we moved in, 'I just want the constant hurting to stop'. So clearly I'm definitely no relationship expert. I only gave 'advice' because I had so many people asking questions in the comments and thought I'd share the few things I have learned. I'm really sorry you're experiencing this. I have no real recommendations to make...other than I really do think self development separate to one another does help (INFPs are quite passionate about the self help books/courses...lol). I used to worry that learning skills separately would make us more likely to end up separated....but I now see that 'being better' myself is the only path to staying together long term.
@@ChaoticallyMe see that's where we are now, we've been off and on at times for 11 years, I've finally decided to try recommitting to the relationship but I told her I think that separate spaces would probably be for the best, and she's not dealing with that very well at all, and she feels like what's the point of even being here at all if we're not gonna spend time together, but I have the living room and dining room it's open floor plan so it's just a big room and she gets the master bedroom I still with her most nights but I want the ability to sleep on my own and that I shouldn't be required to go to bed when she does or that I have to put her to bed when she's ready, it really pushes me away and i get it, i know it stupid that i don't want to or can't do it to make her happy but i think is stupid and meaningless when you begging me to do it and forcing me to in a certain sense, kinda like when your dog will force their head under your hand to pet them, it's ingenious. And she doesn't feel the need to find compromise there I need to sacrifice my natural instincts so she gets her needs met and I think both know how far that goes in an INTP's thought process. I'd be alot more willing to do it voluntarily if I could be left to make my own choice about it and not dragged through the mud about how uncaring I am because I don't try to make her happy.
I forgot to add that one year we spent nearly 24hrs a day together for a whole year. Do you know how that ended? She moved out and we weren't together or very friendly for a long time
My female infp co-worker who i like (im a male intp) sometimes just like randomly stares at me from like far away for like 10 seconds. I catch her like calmly looking at me and i sort of feel a strange connection/feeling thing, then i look away with a sort of confused look on my face then look back and shes still staring at me...then she looks away and carries on with what she is doing (sometimes theres more repetitions of me looking away and looking back). Im starting to think she likes me but sometimes i think she thinks im an asshole. One day she seems to laugh at everything i say (i am literally just trying to be her friend) and the next its like she hates me. Maybe she doesnt want to lead me on or something. She probs knows that i like her i think its probably obvious. She looks so beautiful sometimes when she is talking to me and i just like observing her and feeling her vibes.
Ask her out Snudge! She might be pulling away because she thinks you're not interested in her and she's doesn't want to risk being rejected by you. She might feel embarrassed because she feels she's clearly communicated to you that she likes you, and you haven't responded and now she's over-thinking every single interaction, probably cringing at every little thing she has said during your talks that didn't come out quite right...and thinks you clearly think she's an idiot and don't like her...lol.
Or maybe not...but the only way to know for sure is to take the plunge and make the first move :) if she turns you down, I promise you...it may feel like the end of the world...but it's not...you'll get over it :) It really is the opportunities we didn't have the courage to go for that we regret as we get older....not the times we maybe looked foolish by putting ourselves out there and being rejected. Like water off a duck's back Snudge. Go for it!
Don't idealize and obsess over her from afar! Make a move, be clear, take a leap of faith (she isn't perfect btw, I know INTPs tend to woo over their crushes).
Good advice thanks. Im in no rush to get into a relationship or anything. She seems to be a highly sensitive person and i think she understands and is aware of alot of things. I guess i do idolise her to a certain extent. She has a very different vibe or aura than pretty much everyone ive ever met. Its like she has this sort of openess and softness to her. Maybe i am attracted to her because i had a poor relationship with my mum and maybe she has some sort of loving maternal type quality that ive never really experienced and long for in some way. Maybe thats selfish of me to expect that from someone but its more unconscious i suppose. My intention is really just to be her friend and spend more time with her if possible, just simple things like go for a walk and talk about stuff etc.
Maybe shes had this experience before and is like "i better not lead this guy on too much or he will fall in love with me and it will be super akward at work". Lol. I dont really have any agenda with these comments either just interesting seeing other infps view points about this type of situation.
But thanks for the encouragement. In a way i would like to improve my life situation first like get a better job and better place to live etc. Before asking her out.
Ok I know this comment is a year ago but, as a female INFP I think she’s just in a stage of denial, she probably likes you too and is looking at you imagining what you could be but doesn’t want to admit it to herself for her own reasons that’s why she’s trying to push you away of sorts.
I damn near died when she said to tell us “I don’t need you to solve this problem, I’m just telling you how I feel” 😨
Unsolvable feelings are the stuff of nightmares. To me every emotion that isn’t enjoyable is a problem that needs to be solved.
The stuff of nightmares....oh dear 🙃 I must drive my INTP nuts 😁 Thanks for your input AK!
@@ChaoticallyMe haha! It does! I don’t even know where to start! It’s like trying the maze on the fruit loops box but the trick is there’s literally no escape. Everything is a socially disappointing dead end. 😂
I’m not callous - just obtuse.
As an INFP with a recent realization that I’ve had a life of undiagnosed ADHD (inattentive) I deeply relate to your communication style 🌟🥰
I think for me, I went undiagnosed because my lack of attention wasn't necessarily obvious....and/or I was quiet and it was just easiest for teacher's to leave me be. There were a few occasions when I was 'caught' in primary school for daydreaming and not doing what I was meant to be doing....but I did it so quietly and I always got excellent grades (regardless of not actually putting in any effort) that they just didn't want any drama I guess? INFPs...the masters of conflict avoidance ;)
I did skip school A LOT, starting in 6th grade and at it's worst in 9th grade (basically I skipped 6 months of school that year, and I was responsible for them changing the school policies on truancy ;) I'd attend on Monday and Thursday most weeks and skip Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Fridays, lol)....I'd also purposefully leave assignments until the night before they were due...then I'd pull an all nighter just for the thrill of it. I was convinced I did better work waiting until the night before it was due because it was a manic journey of hyper-focus to get it done in time. If I attempted to start an assignment when it was first given to us, I just couldn't concentrate and was 'bored'....I had to wait till it was an emergency in order for me to focus.
I was an early adopter of the wonders of the Internet in the 90s (from age 12), so I just stayed up all night, every night chatting to people all over the world (mostly on Instant Messengers, but I had a few American friends that would call me on my home phone and a few pen pals too)...I'd only going to school when I felt I had to (to slide under the radar, not rock the boat too much) and/or if there was something fun/interesting I wanted to go to school specifically for that day (debate club was fun....art and drama had their positive points...but not always...and I adored history). Not surprisingly I didn't finish school. I've felt pretty crap about myself for all these years for that reason. I guess it is an ego driven thing in some ways? Because being a drop out leaves people making assumptions about you, ya know? I knew I was intelligent....I just couldn't concentrate in class and had no direction or long term goals to speak of (one teacher out of frustration asked me as a 14 year old, 'where do you want to be in 5 years Jenny?'...I responded with, 'dead'....and she said, 'don't be ridiculous' and stormed off....end of conversation!)...School and I ended up not working out for 3 main reasons: mind-numbing-makes-me-want-to-scream-boredom, a strong distaste for the thoughtless and meaningless rules and restrictions school placed on me and maybe most importantly...my disappointment in the so called 'teachers' I was meant to respect and learn from (I could see through them, their gossiping in the staff room about certain students, their putting their emotional baggage on the students like we were the problem, their 'teaching' being purely to meet the bare minimum requirements of their profession so they could 'stay employed' by a pretty awful private school that was taking all our parents money and giving a sub-par education to all).
I might finally have the level of concentration now to complete some form of education?? I'm 1/2 way through a Diploma of Counselling....which is the longest I've stuck with anything (a whole year!)....and all together I have almost the first year of a Bachelors Degree (I've picked up a few subjects here and there over the years....I did Introduction to Programming and Introduction to Java at uni back in 2008, but hated it (despite getting a Distinction...sigh...I can do things well when I'm 'in the zone' but once I fall out of like or love with something....it's just gone...), then I did Anthropology in 2013, but only one unit (loved it!!!) and then a unit in Sociology (hated it, I love the 'Sociological Imagination' it claimed to be teaching us....but hated the crap they were shoving down our throats and insisting we swallow completely despite the big gaping holes I identified and attempting to discuss...I never got any satisfaction or really had anyone engage with me.....excerpts from books we were given as readings to then discuss were incomplete and didn't give the whole picture....they were giving the students carefully selected source material to make us feel 'well read' but they painted a very specific narrative and I despised the manipulation and lack of authenticity (if we're all just stroking each others egos for repeating the same false or incomplete crap back and forth...can we at least be honest about it and not pretend we're using the scientific method? hmmm?...).
Have gone on a rant...sorry! lol.
Would love to hear about your own experiences with your undiagnosed ADHD? Schooling was the easiest area of life for me to quantify it's effects.....but I think it contributed to my struggles with parenting over the years....and definitely played into my chronic sleep deprivation (compulsively consuming more and more media and information...if I didn't have enough time during the day with looking after the kids, I'd stay up all night to try and cram it in...which then spilled over into the next day not having enough sleep or being able to concentrate...and the so the cycle continued).
If you don't feel comfy in the comments but still want to chat about it, I can write you a novel via email....obviously ;) My email addy is on my About page of my channel if you ever want to chat that way Friar :) :)
Jen the INFP - Chaotically Minimal ha ha this is how I know you’re an INFP for reals - the ability to bust out big chunks of words when the topic feels important 🤗 - I do it too, on occasion.
I can look back a fair way, oversensitivity or HSP has always been present for me even as an infant and toddler. Overstimulation was easily achieved and I hated conflict of any kind. I was linguistically gifted, I was reading adult newspapers by age five. I made my own toys out of paper and glue which was just as well, my parents were always broke. I went through the reading material of year one, two and three in the first six months of year one (first grade) and unfortunately they decided, since they were all out of books, to have me re-read the year one material, and I refused. That’s where the trouble started. By year four (fourth grade) I was having trouble in maths because my brain just didn’t seem to work in that area, and I went from being bored of school to being terrified by it... I was always either far ahead or far behind my subjects, depending on if it was maths or anything else. Nothing ever seemed to fit. I had my first panic attacks in fifth grade over math and I just felt a lot of shame and I knew I didn’t belong in normal society, that I was some bent up genius idiot who was clearly not normal. Mom was too busy supporting the family and dad was too busy being a narcissist for them to see what was happening. I think I managed to be able to hyperfocus on reading and humanities because I’d always enjoyed them before I went to school, but maths were intolerable in any doseage.
I did well in high school, even though I was socially inept, I did manage to graduate. I got accepted into an art and design college but the environment was so unstructured compared to high school that I fell apart several times over. The adhd had me going in ten directions at once except for what I should have been doing, and the time blindness (only being able to deal with what’s in front of our faces, not think ahead) was killing me. All nighters were common and my grades slipped and real depression started setting in, HARD. Still had no idea what was wrong with me, just that I seemed to be pushing against some invisible wall inside myself really hard, and that my friends didn’t seem to have this problem.
I graduated, got lots of jobs, lost them all, shame was beginning to be a full time companion, this was the RSD (Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria) starting to erode and evaporate any sense of self I had left. I started traveling which I loved, but it didn’t matter where I went, the problems returned after the newness of the place wore off.
My relationships sucked, I was disconnected and dissociative, spacey and fearful. Eventually I couldn’t seem to do anything right. When my last major relationship exploded like the Death Star, after years of severe anxiety and panic attacks and a life where every day was emotional and psychological torment, including several very serious moments of thinking that the world and I would be better off if I left, I decided to just hit the brakes on everything and figure out what the hell was wrong with me, no matter where it went.
I went to therapy, got drugs, studied relationship psychology, abnormal psychology, went to various flavors of group therapy, devoured stacks of books, studied Meyers Briggs and Enneagram and codependency and adult children of alcoholics and mystery religions and put together a pretty thorough map of my mind and soul. I still had a few questions left though, and it was a Lex Morningstar video about Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria that laid in the final pieces. It’s a brilliant video and it gave words to that wall I’d pushed against my whole life. I binge watched a lot of Russell A Barkley videos on ADHD and SCT and I had the answers.
ADHD brains don’t process dopamine, serotonin, glucose or adrenaline well enough so we have to “cram them” to feel normal. We therefore are prone to anxiety and depression, we seek out serotonin and other happy drugs through substances or experiences, we cannot tolerate non-happy drug making circumstances, we flit from thing to thing or place to place or even from stress to stress to get dopamine or adrenaline in large enough quantities to feel ANY kind of pleasure and we cram foods to get at least SOME glucose to the brain. We like salty food as a substitute for the electrolyte compounds we need for brain function.
Our executive function brain is divorced from the other parts of the brain, so we know a lot but have a hard time acting on it before we go hunting dopamine. We feel shame over our failings in life which becomes RSD so in the early stages of RSD we can become codependent people pleasers, in later stages we just give up on life entirely because we believe we will never get anything right.
We also become time blind, so any dopamine generating activities (video games, UA-cam, good books, Netflix) will eat hours or days or years... and bedtimes are rarely honored.
I’m working on ways to get around these things so I can have a decent life for the first time ever... small tasks, gamification of my time management, index cards with tasks written on them and placed at the “point of performance” (where I am physically when I need to do those tasks) and very serious self accountability in my journal which I live in, all day every day, to track my habits and my productivity, which is finally growing again. Exercise, multiple meditations a day, my mystic practices and a lot of Priestess Tufti style consciousness exercises, these keep me together.
I’m still kind of mourning the life I could have had if my parents had seen the signs, or if anyone else had told me. But, here I am, and it is what it is. I left out many gory details and horror stories but this is the main thrust of it, condensed as best as an INFP is able. If you read the whole thing, I appreciate it. Sorry for the delay, I had to think a bit about how best to tell the tale. 🥰😌🙏🏻thank you for reading and for sharing so much with me ❤️
Thank you so much for sharing your story Friar!! I've just read it for the 3rd time and can relate to so much of what you mentioned. I'm so glad you've figured so much of this stuff out and have found strategies that are working for you. I'm still hugely a work in practice...and a lot of days it just feels pretty hopeless that I'll ever be 'better'...
Life is a bit of an emotional rollercoaster at the moment, but I like to think I'm dealing with it better than I would have in the past. Progress is progress I guess, even if we're not where we'd like to be...yet!
💖💖💖
Jen the INFP - Chaotically Minimal - thank you for reading, I know it’s a lot. I appreciate it hugely ❤️
I really know the hopeless feeling, like somehow life is just not going to work out. It will, if we accept that we have to make changes based on our unique needs and not how the world, or even we, think that things “should be” based on “what’s normal.”
I’m sorry about the emotional rollercoaster. Things are all upended. I work very hard every day to keep my emotional center.
The Russell A Barkley videos really were the key for me, to understand that my brain wants sugar (hello carbs!) and adrenaline and dopamine and serotonin, and doesn’t get them in the quantity other brains do, and my brain seeks them out (especially as the day wears on... night snacking, anyone?) and that I get terribly lost in activities, forget to stop, hate to start, switch before I’m finished, and generally make a hash of things. If I can see myself doing those things, and make strategic and structural changes to the way I do LITERALLY EVERYTHING, then I have a chance 😇
You've convinced me...I definitely need to check out his videos 🥰 thank you!
I’ve noticed the difference between INTP and INFP in terms of preferences of communication that you mentioned. From an INTPs perspective, we like accuracy, both from how we receive information and how we give it. So we like to give enough context so the depth to arrive at accuracy is also correct. We tend to think through things a lot because we think it’s necessary to arrive at the best answers to the topic, and we feel others should be given that, too.
I’ve noticed INFPs are not as interested in communication like this or it comes off this way whether it’s true or not. I’m pretty sure it’s Ti-Fe vs Fi-Te. Not so surprising, I’ve tended to form bonds with INFPs over Ne in an art context. Art, music, etc. I think that is where we overlap the most. The search for novelty, Aux Ne, etc.
I remember talking to an INFP once about how I think, and they commented that is why we have a certain intellect. I asked them to describe how they think, and they said it was just like clouds in their head. Not saying they do not think as much, but perhaps a gears vs. clouds metaphor is appropriate, and that’s how it comes across to each.
Gears vs clouds....I like it :) For me, I'm fairly sure I have undiagnosed ADHD...so often those clouds cram on in there, layering upon one another, each new cloud attempting to crowd out the existing ones....and I struggle to keep track or work my way back through them all.... At times it's not so much like clouds....but more like a tendril of thought that spirals out of control and ends somewhere completely out of place to where it began. For me I often can't remember where it began.....whereas INTPs seem to create a mind map for you of the idea they're discussing and could take you back through the first part if you didn't quite catch it.....for me, I may not remember the beginning of the thought....it's more about the journey and the exploration rather than tying it down...
I agree, INFPs and INTPs can have a lot of fun exploring their Aux Ne together :) :)
Thank you for sharing your observations and perspectives! I really appreciate it :) :)
@@ChaoticallyMe So basically what you’re telling us is that you are brain storming.
@@AK-jt7kh That seems accurate 🤔
@@ChaoticallyMe so flattering that you commented Jen! The INTP in me is humored by your affirmation
We like blunt. I like your frame approach, but honestly, you can let it rip on us. We can handle it if it’s direct, but like you said, if it’s in code, we are not mind readers
Thanks John, good to have confirmation that direct and blunt is the best approach :)
I have missed your content. Glad your on here
I enjoy watching and learning about briggs personality types but I still can't figure out mine.. lol but I learned behaviors to fit into the world.. lol
Hey Heather!! I've missed you :) :) How have you and your family been? Not to worry on not being able to figure yours out....it doesn't really change anything anyway! lol. It's more for me a fun language to communicate about aspects of the experience of being human, I think. A lot we can all relate to regardless of personality type. My family are sick of hearing about mbti I think. In the past few days I had a massive realisation, that I thought was well summed up by MBTI but my hubby disagrees (that or he just is so over MBTI talk that he wanted to shut it down...lol).
So basically we sleep on a thin, roll up mattress on the floor each night and it gets hung up to get aired out almost every day (it's high humidity where we are), so every morning I fold up our bedding into piles and then before bed 'make the bed' again. We're both bed hogs so my hubby and I have separate blankets and sheets (and pillows obviously). So when I fold all the bedding up, I place them in two piles (one for his stuff and one for mine) before rolling up the mattress.
Usually I make the bed back up before we go to bed at night but occasionally I'll fall asleep in front of the tv or I'm up later than hubby so he makes up the bed. It really irks me when I go in to find my blankets on his side or the 'laying on top of sheet' has been replaced with my sheet and I now have the 'laying on top of' sheet as my sheet (yeah I know it doesn't sound like much....but I like the sheet that I put up to my face whilst I'm sleeping to be my nice clean sheet...ya know?). So whenever this happens I just get annoyed...and don't say anything....lol. But I was groggy the other night and I made a comment and re-did it in front of him.
I then felt bad the next day for making him feel bad when he was just being helpful and laying out the bed for me....and because I was editing one of these videos where I was talking about our Inferior functions, it suddenly dawned on me......I called my hubby into the bedroom where I had made the usual 'piles' of bedding that morning and I asked him, 'hey, when you see these piles here, do you realise that they have been organised in any particular way?'.....he answered, 'huh? no...what do you mean...?'
So basically all this time I've been getting irked because I perceive him not respecting my bedding and using it willy nilly for whatever purpose he desires (total over-reaction, but that's how I feel when I see my clean sheet being put somewhere it shouldn't....lol).....he didn't even realise we had set bedding....lol. *face palm* I think it might be a Te thing....because if I'm going to bother putting the bedding in piles, those piles will be organised in a certain way, ya know? If we're just throwing crap in the corner today because we're in a hurry to get somewhere then that's cool too...that's not organised....but if I go to the trouble of folding and piling them in separate piles, they will be organised in some way. I don't particularly like this menial task...but if I'm going to do it, it will have at least a tentatively hanging on kind of system to it.
I then asked my ISFP son the same question about when he sees these piles placed here... (he has Te in the same slot as me) and my INTP son (same type as his Dad and does not use Te) and my theory on Te assuming a system and Ti not bothering to consider either way seemed to pan out (admittedly very small sample size...and we are all related...lol).....however my hubby thinks it's not MBTI related at all and that I've just learned a system from somewhere and that it's unreasonable for me to expect him to know my system without telling him (oops!). I just assumed that if you see piles made by another person that you would assume there was a reason for them doing it that way, and if you can't figure it out, ask.......but that's my cognitive bias I think....because that's not how he works!!
Sorry have rambled on a lot there! lol. All that to say, that me knowing his MBTI type and mine is probably irrelevant.....communicating with him when he kept messing with my bedding and it was irking me would have solved the problem a lot quicker than me having an MBTI lightbulb moment and realising his ignoring of Te might be to blame for him not respecting the 'system'...haha!
@@ChaoticallyMe we are all do very well here. I have to say as husbands go in don't think they see things as we do. I also think husbands don't hear like we do. I find I talk a lot but no one is listening... Lol
I hear you Heather! When my hubby talks, everyone seems to listen...when I talk, I'm convinced people zone out automatically...lol.
@@ChaoticallyMe yes that my me too. Or they say I'm being to bossy. However if a man said the same thing it no big thing. Miss you. Hope your family is well
infp here. been in a live in relationship with an intp for 5 years.
lately Ive been a mute (INFP) towards my fiance (INTP).. I dont feel like talking for whatever reason, but he always wants to hear about my day. today i told him "if i wanted you to know about my day i wouldve told you..." and i've told him already in the past couple week that i feel like he's forcing me. i already dont like being told what i should do, so with his asking about my day, daily i feel that he doesnt care how i feel.
I understand completely where you're coming from...sometimes we're just in feelings hermit mode. It does sound like maybe your INTP senses you're going through a down patch/funk and he doesn't know how to help, so he may be trying to pull you out of yourself a little? I get why you'd be hurt that he doesn't respect that you don't want to talk about how your day has gone. Have you outright told him that though, because telling an INTP 'if I wanted you to know about my day I would've told you' unfortunately for us does not translate to, 'I don't like it when you ask to hear about my day'. I have a habit of thinking my INTP should be able to just 'read' between the lines and that my emotions are so big and obvious that if he's not getting it he just doesn't care....but in reality our inner emotional landscape is probably quite subtle to an external observer...AND...working out how someone is feeling is not the INTPs strong suit anyways! You kind of have to be really literal and clear with them. Eg. I'm sorry I've been so cranky about you asking me how my day has been, I'm feeling really emotionally introverted at the moment...I'm in a bit of a funk...but if you give me some space I'm sure I'll be over it in a bit. I still love you though and want to spend time with you, I just don't want to talk about me right now'. Your INTP might just want to feel close to you, and may be feeling like you've become really distant. Even a simple, 'I don't want to talk about me right now, I'm in a funk, but hey...do you want to watch a movie and cuddle?'...might be helpful?
Sorry you're going through a frustrating patch at the moment, relationships can be so hard and hurtful even when it's something minor in the grand scheme of things :(
i'm infp and my intp bf is not that talkative, i always have to talk more than him and sometimes i feel alone in the conversation :/
Hahaa yeah, does ur bf ask u after a several minutes of silence too "would u please talk to me?" I don't know what to say moooooore 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Bestest lady ever! 💕
naaw thank you 😘 you're definitely biased...but I'll take it ;)
Lol i'm here beacuse i'm a INTP and i realised my biggest crushes (fictional duh I never talk with others if it's not online Haha) are INFPs
I'm a INTP and i had a real life crush on INFP recently. I never got the chance to date her, but there was chemistry there. I just love them lol
Met my fiance while playing mmorpg. I am infp, he's intp. Ur chances r high. Keep going. But make a move. Infps r shy pokemon and only Will show interest if the other one shows interest too. Then throw the pokeball at a wild infp, maybe u catch a shiny one
Oh she says how she's feeling on and on and criticizing me at the same time and then the you won't and you refuse you never phrases come out and then I'm pissed and let her know to just walk away and she won't she will keep at it
I hear you Jon, relationships are tough! I can completely relate to the interaction you're describing. It's especially hard when you legitimately don't know why the person is upset and instead of telling you exactly what's happened, they go on a rant and somehow drag your past mistakes into it. If you can bear it, sometimes just saying something like, 'I hear you, I'm sorry you're feeling upset right now' can diffuse the situation. Often people just need to talk through their feelings without judgement and come to their own conclusions...they just need to use the other person as a sounding board to figure it out for themselves. I get that when someone is verbally abusing you though, that's the last kind of comfort you want to offer them.....but if it's a relationship that you want to really have a go at maintaining...then being the calm one willing to humble themselves and listen can be a good idea. Also, I like to see it as a mini experiment...just to see what happens, ya know? If arguments always play out the same way over and over...what would happen if one person tried something different? Often one person learning better communication skills can make all the difference.
In what you described, I do find that calm 'I' statements are much more effective than upset or heated 'you' statements (eg. you won't, you refuse). So rather than the 'you never listen to me', instead a calm 'I feel disappointed when I'm talking and I see you turn and look at the tv. It makes me feel like the things I say don't matter, and that really gets me down'. It is more constructive, it's specific and it allows the person using the 'I' statement to actually really think about what it is they're upset about. Also, by staying calm, the other person who keeps looking at the tv can then respond calmly....they may legit not have realised that them looking at the tv irks the other person and they think they're listening fine, 'oh I didn't realise it made you feel bad, I'll try and look at you whilst you're talking in future.' Or alternately, maybe they can communicate honestly and say, 'yeah I'm sorry about that, it's just that I'm really exhausted when I first walk in the door from work and I don't have the head space to listen to you properly. Could we put a pin in this and talk properly in an hour?'. Flinging accusations is you putting it into the other persons court and wanting them to deal with all these bad feelings you're having (which are probably more to do with you than they actually are to do with the person you're yelling at). By trying to articulate how it's effecting you personally, I think it's more helpful. Of course, even then...you have to be okay with the other person not feeling like talking right now. Gah, relationship hey! So many variables...so much potential for misunderstandings and pain.
It all comes back to those effective communication skills...and each partner developing themselves separate to their relationship with their partner (so having good boundaries for example, so that you can make a decision about what kind of treatment/things you're okay with in the relationship, and what things you're not).....all those things are definitely easier said than done though!
@@ChaoticallyMe oh I've tried and I've tried to explain to her, in the least INTP I can......I think anyway, one issue is when I do finally get a chance to speak she will cut me off not necessarily with saying I'm lying but something along the lines of thinking she knows what I'm saying and then it starts into an argument about how doesn't listen to what I have to say and she says she's trying to but I'm not saying anything and I say that's what I'm doing but you cutting me off why can't you just listen to everything I have to say then she's like fine go ahead say it then if you really have a point go ahead I'm listening but at that point, I'm like fuck that if you really cared and were listening you wouldn't interrupt me. It's really a thing, and it's to the point where I want to be left alone and when she starts talking about anything I check out, I don't care to hear it because I'm tried of not being heard so why listen to her and I've brought this up and she says it's because I do it to her and it becomes another thing and if I suggest that we try a clean slate and from this point on we communicate with each other as if we didn't do that to each other, and that's when she says oh so we are still gonna do things your way....11 years doing it your way hasn't gotten very far
Wow, sometimes I'm not 100% sure that the person commenting is actually in an INFP-INTP relationship (i.e they may have mistyped themselves or their partner....and they may be relating to universal relationship struggles regardless of personality types)....but in this case what you're describing...is EXACTLY the kinds of interactions my INTP and I have at times! It's actually why I would never openly recommend INTP-INFP as a good pairing...we have the same kinds of conflict you're describing...and there's just no middle ground to be found. Your INFP cutting you off because she thinks she already knows what you're going to say, I'm so guilty of doing this! Then when I do finally want to hear what my INTP has to say, him throwing his hands in the air and refusing to say it...aaaah so frustrating but understandable from his (and your) perspective! This is so scarily accurate of how wrong an INFP-INTP relationship can go...
My hubby and I when we bought our house last year actually split our finances (for the first time since we got married 17 years ago) and after giving the kids their room, we split the rest of the living areas/bedrooms between us. So I have my own bedroom and little study nook...and he has the main living room and the small bedroom as his own. The kitchen is the shared space we all congregate...or outside on the deck :) We usually still sleep together each night (either in my room or in his room - we sleep on a roll out futon so it can easily be moved)...but we each have our own space. It's not perfect...and a bit heartbreaking at times (more I don't know what to think of it? does this make me a failure?)....but it was the best way to avoid arguments and to keep our close friendship that was the reason we got together in the first place. We had so many arguments about finances over the years (both terrible at keeping track of incomings and outgoings consistently...) and I was always complaining about him not giving me enough space (INTPs talk through things out loud a lot more than INFPs! and my INTP can be abit overbearing with his opinions...and I feel overwhelmed) so this is how my INTP hubby solved the problem. Less arguments, more individual space and time. Not going to put it out there as a recommendation though, because who knows how this will play out in the long run! As my INTP put it before we moved in, 'I just want the constant hurting to stop'.
So clearly I'm definitely no relationship expert. I only gave 'advice' because I had so many people asking questions in the comments and thought I'd share the few things I have learned. I'm really sorry you're experiencing this. I have no real recommendations to make...other than I really do think self development separate to one another does help (INFPs are quite passionate about the self help books/courses...lol). I used to worry that learning skills separately would make us more likely to end up separated....but I now see that 'being better' myself is the only path to staying together long term.
@@ChaoticallyMe see that's where we are now, we've been off and on at times for 11 years, I've finally decided to try recommitting to the relationship but I told her I think that separate spaces would probably be for the best, and she's not dealing with that very well at all, and she feels like what's the point of even being here at all if we're not gonna spend time together, but I have the living room and dining room it's open floor plan so it's just a big room and she gets the master bedroom I still with her most nights but I want the ability to sleep on my own and that I shouldn't be required to go to bed when she does or that I have to put her to bed when she's ready, it really pushes me away and i get it, i know it stupid that i don't want to or can't do it to make her happy but i think is stupid and meaningless when you begging me to do it and forcing me to in a certain sense, kinda like when your dog will force their head under your hand to pet them, it's ingenious. And she doesn't feel the need to find compromise there I need to sacrifice my natural instincts so she gets her needs met and I think both know how far that goes in an INTP's thought process. I'd be alot more willing to do it voluntarily if I could be left to make my own choice about it and not dragged through the mud about how uncaring I am because I don't try to make her happy.
I forgot to add that one year we spent nearly 24hrs a day together for a whole year. Do you know how that ended? She moved out and we weren't together or very friendly for a long time
Not necessarily just 'cuz they are an INTP but 'cuz that is not correct...
Hi Med student, could you elaborate please? What is it that's not correct? :)