I find a lot of people, questioning whether they're "smart" enough to do medicine. Perhaps, you can make a video on hardwork vs "intelligence" in medicine. A detailed video on your personal opinion of what it means to be "intelligent" and hardworking in the field of medicine will be interesting! Awesome videos! Keep up the great work!
Short answer: both You do need to be intelligent to get a grasp of the sometimes really complex problems and connections. Similarly you need to work hard, no matter your intelligence, because it’s just a huge amount of info (I’m finishing my 3rd year in a 6year program at med school)
Maybe I can give you some perspective. I'm a medical doctor who is involved in training Internal Medicine (IM) residents in two hospitals (I'm not in the U.S.). There are times when we had to terminate some residents from the programs because they were simply unable to keep up. IM is tough because it places a premium on intellect; you must have good theoretical knowledge ("book knowledge") plus good clinical skills and use these two in concert to analyze your patient's problems, come up with a correct diagnosis, then formulate a proper treatment plan. Some of the residents that were removed from the programs had good work ethic, but bluntly put they weren't bright enough to endure the mental/intellectual demands of the training. In short, even if you're the most diligent person in the class or batch of trainees, there is only so much that diligence can do. Applying this to med school is pretty much the same, you can study like hell but it requires a certain degree of intellect to actually be able to retain and use what you studied. In one med school in my country, fully one-third of medical students don't make it to their final year and quit along the way. A class starts off with around 600 students and roughly 200 graduate. Obviously not all of this is because these students aren't bright enough (for example, some realize they don't like pursuing Medicine) but for a good number this is the reason, as evidenced by failing grades.
In the UK they pay us peanuts. Its only good if you want to have a relatively decent lifestyle at the expense of pay. Its great if you’re coming from a third world country, if you’re from Canada or the US I think you’ll be better off staying in your country.
I’ve seen the pay scale for doctors in the UK and it’s really, really insulting. After ten years there a physician doesn’t make as much as my daughter makes as a nurse here. You would think they could pay them better given the crushing income tax rates that the Brits pay?🤷🏻♂️
In the UK, things are a bit more competitive than you think. There are actually only a handful of medical schools which accept a UCAT below 2700 and these are mainly aimed for contextual students (something similar to affirmative action in the USA). Most medical schools will require a score above 2700 meaning you need to be in the top 20% at a minimum. Most medical schools, despite their requirements being AAA in a A-Level, are almost certainly likely to reject you if you applied with those predicted grades and usually expect at least A*AA or A*A*A to have a decent shot of getting in. You have also missed out on another key admission exam called the BMAT. This applies to about 20% of the UK medical schools including the most competitive and prestigious ones such as Cambridge, Oxford, UCL, Imperial and a few others - a lot of candidates will take both exams. For these more competitive universities, you would require a top 20% score at a minimum in the BMAT before being interviewed. So once you have the minimum grade and admission score to meet their cut offs, (roughly about 40% of applicants), you will need to pass the interview (approximately 30%-70% do). At this point you will receive a conditional offer where you will need to meet certain grades in your A-Levels otherwise you will lose your place. Most medical schools, this offer would then be AAA or A*AA (Cambridge being the only one requiring A*A*A). Similarly to the USA and Canada, there are also a lot of extra curriculars required. Most competitive students will undertake 50+ hours of volunteering / healthcare work within a 1 year period alongside their studies. Work experience in several placements is very frequently a minimum as well as research projects, further reading into the career and many students also take on an EPQ (a large and graded research project) too to increase their chances. The limiting of four medical school choices also make this process a lot harder as we cannot simply brute force apply to as many schools as we like and hope one of them hits. You have to be very tactical on where you apply by choosing the right schools by looking at previous admissions data - but past figures can often change quite dramatically and students are often rejected from 1 or 2 of their 4 choices they felt confident in because of a sudden and significant change. Yes, we do not have to complete a degree to apply to Medicine, or publish research papers but our application process does take place at the age of 16-17 and is quite intense in a short period of time. Side Note: this isn't a rant or complaint, but just trying to paint a more accurate picture of the UK medical school application process. The USA and Canada may well be more competitive than in the UK - I just wanted to get a point across.
Totally agree with what you are saying. I personally don't think the video accurately portrays the difficulty of getting into medical school in the UK. I applied to medical school three years ago. Even though I had predicted grades (and achieved grades) of 4 A*s at A level, achieved a reasonable UCAT score of 2650 (SJT band 1), achieved 10 A*s at IGCSE AND volunteered at care homes on a weekly basis ---- I only ended up getting 1 invitation to interview. Luckily, 1 invitation was all that I needed to secure an offer after my interview. Basically, securing a place at medical school in the UK is unbelievably competitive as well. Securing an offer is a long, stressful process which involves highly competitive academic results, solid work experience and strong interview skills.
Also, it seems a shame to me that the GEM route was ignored here entirely as this is arguably the most directly comparable route to the US and Canada with even higher competition ratios. I appreciate that it forms the minority of those who get into med school but it includes a significant amount of those that go on to practice. Plus you are then in the conversation to mention the 6hr GAMSAT exam which is pretty challenging. I believe only around the top 20% from the GAMSAT even get considered for an interview (please correct me if this is out of date though)
To put things in perspective I think the reason medical school in the US (and Canada as well) is hard to apply to is because it’s a doctorate level program so people have all of university to prepare their applications, and many take a gap year or 2 or 3 etc. to prepare their application even after university. I think America is much more competitive EC wise because of their “holistic” application process. I had top 1% school stats (mcat and gpa), hundreds of volunteering, hundreds of clinical experience, hundreds of research, hundreds of club/leadership, dozens of shadowing, and I only got offers from like 10-15% of the schools I applied to. I know people with publications, hundreds upon hundreds of hours of ECs, very good grades like at least top 15%, good references, applied to 20+ schools, etc. and not get in. Also, essay writing/telling your story is a HUGE factor in med school admissions in America in my opinion, many subjective components like a person’s “character”. You can’t brute force your way by just applying to a ton of schools in the US, you’ll just get rejected by all of them if your application is flawed. The only way to brute force your way in is to take extra years after graduating university to bulk up your resume and application. So tbh, it’s impossible to compare because by the time students apply to medical schools in America, they are hungry, career driven professionals, not just teenagers
uk is more competitive than us. US just takes longer so it's more annoying but uk is more competitive in the year of applying to med school cos uk students have better education than us students on average cos of us education system not being great.
I competed in India where I had to compete with 1.5 million students to get a seat in a Government medical college, I had to rank in the top 2000 students, and I did. Luckily, in India the government College education is almost free so I never had to pay much for my medical degree!
Wtf . The biggest med college in india aims doesnt even require interviews or mmi 😂😂 just on the basis of scores or caste u can get admission . Not to mention without essays . 😂Thats easy as fuck
For A Levels in the UK, an AAA grade would be 80% or higher. An A*AA grade would be similar, with the exception that the grade for one subject has to be 90% or higher
@@glokjdfngkjsdnf1104 indeed but it’s apples and oranges - UK high school exams are significantly harder then US high school classes - so even though a 90% is an A in the US doesn’t make it harder
@@khimcleod3459 I don’t know how they mark in us but I tutored chemistry for a bit. Most questions are not testing fact recall but are application, Tbf I don’t think Chem is too difficult at A level uk but other exams are very challenging. You might get 95% of the questions right but get 60-65% overall. Which is disheartening and then people feel inadequate with their ability.
@@callum4387 Yea that’s a huge blanket statement U.S schools are not created equal. Usually the higher income areas have better education in the U.S. Also, Magnet and Governor schools are harder than regular public high schools.
Pleasantly surprised how accurate your understanding of the UK system is to be fair. Only a couple of bits weren't right on UK is very competitive. It was a 14 to 1 ratio at my med school. Lower debt but also WAY lower pay than the US! Not a good career if you're after wealth. Med school is shorter but specialty training is much longer and due to the monopsony of the NHS, you can't train anywhere but the NHS. Plus there are a lot of specialty bottlenecks that prevent progression, in the name of service provision. Anyway, loving the videos as usual :)
@@AlphaNumeric123 Very hard from from what I understand, US trained med students get first dibs (or thereabouts) in the match process leaving the less desirable specialties and locations. Happy to be corrected if wrong. You'll still have to do the USMLE step exams as well. But don't let that stop you if it's what you want! And the competition for Oxbridge is beastly
@@AlphaNumeric123 I don't know about the transfer between the UK to the US, but I can tell you that you will find it very hard to find a place in any medical school here (in the UK), especially so at Oxford or Cambridge (you can only apply to one in any given year. This is mainly because places for international students in UK medical schools are very strictly limited. I know that at Cambridge they are only around 14 places in a cohort of around 250-300. So it is ridiculously competitive. This is mainly because at UK medical schools they are training you to be a good Doctor in our NHS and so they are trying to discourage people from doing what you are proposing. Also, in your application to a UK medical school, you are expected to be aware of problems within the UK's NHS. If you are intending to go back to the US after your medical degree here it will probably be obvious to the admissions team as you will not care as much about problems in the NHS and it will count against you. I am not saying that it is impossible but it would be very difficult and possibly not the best use of your time.
Yes, I'm a UK med student and I'd agree with most of the understanding. ConceptSoup is completely correct about post grad training. The hardest part about being a dr in the UK is not getting into med school, it's passing post grad exams eg. MRCS, and getting training posts.
Just a few things about the UK medical school application which I think others have touched upon: GCSE Grades - the grades medical schools want for GCSE's are much lower than what the average medical school applicant actually has achieved. Majority of medical school applicants will have all A*/A's (9/8/7's now under the new grading system). A-Levels - you are given 'predicted' A-Level grades at the beginning of your last year of college (equivalent to last year in high school in the US I believe). Many uni's may have an AAA requirement, however, to be competitive and have a decent chance of receiving an interview offer you most likely need a predicted of A*AA or higher. Predicted grades are based on your performance in your first year of A-Level mostly, but some teachers can be very generous whilst others very strict - and so there is a slight element of luck in this part of the process. Work experience/volunteering - wasn't mentioned at all in the video. Whilst we do not have any specific hours like how the US had, it is expected students have had significant exposure in a healthcare/medical setting where they have ideally interacted with patients or followed a doctor. No specific requirements like I mentioned, but it is almost a guaranteed rejection if you apply without adequate work experience. UCAT/BMAT - Maybe the situation has changed, but when I applied in 2018, a UCAT of below 2600 would not be considered by universities. The BMAT is also another entrance exam which exists, for the more competitive uni's such as Cambridge, Oxford, UCL etc. Many students will have to prepare for both of these exams simultaneously.
Germany - basically you have to have a perfect A-level score or (since 2020) - have a really good A-level-score + a perfect TMS (test for medical degrees) + already have a degree in the medical field (I‘ve already got a three year nursing degree + clinical experience) + volunteering Medicine in Germany is a 6 year degree and you don‘t have to pay high fees (Sry for my bad english, I worked a hard night shift)
The selection process is nuts in India: About 2 Million students give the medical entrance exam for about 40,000 seats. That's like 50 students competing for 1 spot.
Wow I had no idea. In Italy is so different! There is a national test happening every year right after the end of highschool, about topics like science, physics, math ecc. and everyone with an highschool diploma can partecipate. Usually there are 70.000 people competing for 14.000 spots, and based on your score you can choose before others where you woud like to study. The highest is the score, the wider is your choice. The degree is 5 years long, and after that there is another national test to decide the specialization (again, the highest the score, the wider the choice) which is usually another 4 or 5 years long with retribution. They don't care about your highscool career or extracurricular activities, if you studied and you know stuff, you get in; if you don't, you have a whole year to prepare better and try again. Onestly, I like this system, since it really values your knowledge. Cheers by a first year Italian med student
Some light on the process in South Africa: We have a very similar system as the UK. A 5/6 year course directly after high school and 3 years compulsory training after med school. So best case scenario 8 years before you get licensed. We have a similar test to the MCAT and UCAT. However, the sheer amount of applicants is what makes our selection so difficult. It might seem like I’m making these numbers up, but I assure you they are accurate. In 2014 a total of 36000 applications were sent in for a total of 1770 spots. That equates to a 5% acceptance rate… This figure increased a lot over the years. Getting into med school is nowhere easy…
As a top 5 UK med school matriculant, I don't think this paints the complete picture for UK med school admissions, however, what was said was accurate. Good job, nevertheless!
How difficult would it be to get a medical degree in the UK (at say OxBridge or other elite unis) and then do a residency in America and ultimately practice in the US?
@@AlphaNumeric123 I ask myself that same question but rather with Pakistan instead of UK. You would have to study for exams like the usmle when you come back and from what I have heard you may not get into a residency program that corresponds to the specialty that you want to take part in, especially if that specialty is highly competitive.
@Scrimp as a bottom 5 UK med school matriculant, i think your comment is not 100% accurate and could be improved. but good job on writing it nevertheless
@@AlphaNumeric123 Oxbridge will really help residency applications in US because it goes without saying their international notability is second to non, especially in the UK. Very few other elite UK uni names can boost your prospects but nowhere near as much as Oxbridge (Imperial, UCL, KCL etc..) but overall these may only be recognised by academics who may not be the ones who review your residency application. TLDR: Oxbridge is your best bet to get into a good US program for obvious reasons, and while other elite UK unis can too, not it’s a quite lower chance when up against the other Ivies.
You forgot to mention that A levels =four years of your science courses in the US Bs degree. I did A levels in Maths, Bio, and chem and I’m now about to finish my chem undergrad in the US. It's basically the same stuff I did in two years. Also in A levels, your final grede was based on the final exams only. So you had to learn stuff for two years and sit for about 5 exams at the end. Exams were a mixture of multiple-choice, feel-in, and practical exams.
This video about the UK has several flaws but the biggest is the A level grades. Yes last few yrs 19% have got A* but that's cuz of covid and the kids not sitting the exams. Teachers predictions where used and it lead to grade inflation. Before covid, it's around 8%. Students who got covid grades actually had to do examinations run by each medschool due to the massive grade inflation.
@B Georgellis During covid, medschool ran internal admission exams. They've stopped them now because A levels are back but last couple of yrs a large proportion of them made students do an admissions exam
Your Canada prerequisite part is mostly incorrect. Most schools have little to no course prerequisites except the University of Ottawa, which does not require any physics. The University of British Columbia requires two semesters of English, but that is its only requirement. The others simply require that you have a 3-4 year degree (some don't even require that you have a finished degree), that too in any discipline. There are also only 2832 seats. I know this is quite close to 3000, but thinking about the fact that is a difference of 168 candidates, I think it's worth the specification. Although, they are adding a new med school soon which might bring the amount of seats up to 3000. I also think the "20% admission rate" is a bit misleading. Most people don't apply to every school, and most schools usually have an acceptance rate of 2-5%. Some have much higher acceptances, but that's only because very few people apply to them, which is a further attestation to my point. I would say your chances of getting in are more around 4%, especially if you're applying to the more competitive schools such as those in Ontario or BC.
I'm a Canadian who went to the UK straight after high school. I'm about to finish first year so haven't been here long, but came to the UK to get straight into med school. As Dr. Jabbal said, Canadian premed is CUTTHROAT. I have friends in first year premed that are already struggling to keep up not because the course is hard, but becase everyone has to overachieve to even have a chance in medical school in Canada. I came to the UK to get my degree, with plans to apply as an IMG in Canada and US (even harder in Canada than US; what a surprise!). Because I took this route, competitive specialties are out of the question for me for sure, unless I want to stay in the UK with the low pay.
In India, we need to go through NEET-UG as soon as we finish our high school. There are three sections in NEET-UG - Physics, Chemistry and Biology where the questions asked in Physics and Chemistry are of College level. There are more than 15 million (19 million this year) aspirants every year while there are only 48000 government medical College seats in India. That means we compete with 395 other students for one seat. It is arguably the most competitive exam in the world.
Hi, would you mind letting me know how the application process was? And if you're comfortable what your grades and extracurriculars were like? I find the AAA system confusing and am trying to compare it to my own grades
@@saihajmangat2995Sorry if this is late but every university has a page that tells you how every A level grade would compare to grades from other countries
I think it would be great to address the UK graduate entry system in another video as many US and Canadian citizens are unaware of the option. I’ve heard of stories where some people pursue the 5-6 year medicine track in the UK even after a bachelor degree.
I'm fairly certain that you can't get a student loan or the amount you get is limited if you choose to go into a standard 5 year medicine degree in the UK after already graduating with a degree from a university. Even with the accelerated graduate entry four year courses, students have to pay £3,500 out of pocket up front, I don't know whether this applies to dentistry graduates on the 3 year medicine degree pathway to maxillofacial surgery too.
In Sweden there are 12 class/grades. Last 3 are highschool. After that if you have almost perfect grades or get like 85% on the national college/university test you get a place on a 6 year long medical school. After that you do an all encompassing test where if you succeed you get a medical doctor's licence. Then you have to do like a 6 months internship and then you are free to doctor around i guess. Or specialize in something, which may vary from 3 to 10 years. Or you can do research.
Great video dude 🔥 for anyone wondering, there's been recent announcements here in Canada that they'll be adding more spots to certain Canadian medical schools and will likely even be opening 1-2 additional schools in the (relatively) near future, but from what I'm seeing and from speaking with new premeds... I'm not quite sure that this will do much to absorb the excess supply of applicants. On the other hand, adding new seats would do very little to address one of the largest issues with the Canadian system which is the lack of family medicine doctors in some Canadian provinces. Especially if the new medical students all decide to gun for ophthalmology or plastics. Hoping for the best 🇨🇦🤞
I’m in the process of changing my career goal to writing the DAT now rather then trying to fight for a medical school spot and fight for residency after in Canada
8:49 is fairly misleading - what the medical schools require and what is deemed competitive can be far apart, some unis you wont make the interview cut if your score is not competitive, even if you meet the requirement
One key detail they forgot to mention is the financial burden in the US. College on average is about 30k per year for tuition vs Canada’s 6k per year. Canada’s medical school cost about 13k per year and the US’s is about 70k. All my friends in college have jobs. This takes a lot of time away from studying and volunteer hours.
@@niyatsiyum4774 25k per year. mine is 105k total 4 years. plus living expenses during med school +50k, plus undergrad + 30k or so. So 180k total. Not a dream
US also has better compensation for doctors so the student loans you take out can be paid off more predictably. Although I will concede it’s cheaper in Canada, it’s significantly harder so many Canadian students end up going to the US/UK/Australia as international students and paying way more.
@@Djme2Lmao that's nothing compared to US Medical schools who also take out loans for living expenses. $250k+ is just for tuition. It's not uncommon to see people with more than $400k+ in debt after four years of medical school in the US.
Getting into medical school, no matter where in the world, is competitive. No doubt. It's the nature of medicine in general. However, among the US, CAN, and UK, CAN is the most competitive out of the three. On top of that, there are less residencies in CAN in comparison even to the US. I myself know tons of CAN nationals (fellow physicians) who decided to study abroad in large part because of that, and decided to opt for residency in the US afterwards.
Good luck getting into medical school in Canada with a 4.0 GPA, 90%+ MCAT with a 127 CARS section! (Does not apply to all schools, but it is ridiculous still).
90 percentile it's nothing here in India we have to get 99 percentile (minimum) to be even considered to a med school infact for prestigious colleges like AIIMS( all india institute of medical sciences) it is even higher than that infact the test itself contains the level of depth taught in bachelors 1st year in many countries(in UK and north america) for example we have to take compulsory physics and chemistry with ofcourse biology and give a competitive exam called NEET with level of physics and chemistry being equivalent to that of individual bachelors in the respective subjects and yes we have to do all this while we are in high school which in itself is very difficult specially considering asian countries
@@united4606 I love how so much barriers are put on front of aspiring physicians... To the point that they are forced to learn things that will never be useful to them in their careers. India sounds really tough. My main comment actually was proving the point that in Canada, for some schools, your CARS score is all they care about in the MCAT. They base your preparation for taking care of patients on an English test about medieval politics. It always amazes me.
@@nightshockplayz5894 to be fair, not all schools focus on CARS so much - and those that focus on the entire test then also require your entire MCAT score to be obscenely high, plus extraordinary ECs as well (e.g. UBC)
@@journeytowellness16 Regardless, basing preparation for medical school on a section that has nothing to do with medicine and everything to do with liberal arts, history, and complex vocabulary is absurd.
At least in the UK you find out if you are going into medicine at 18. If not you can start doing something else, take a useful major. In the US, you can waste 4 college years just to find out you stuck in the process.
Well in Australia, Goodluck getting into any medical school with even a 2990 UCAT score. This year, most med schools required a 3040 UCAT minimum, so I'm not sure why U.K has such a low prereq
Most MD schools in Australia have a minimum of 500 MCAT to be considered, although probably matriculants score much higher than 500 (they don't publish the averages). I have a friend who got a 508, and he got into Deakin medical school.
Wtf, that’s insane. UCAT >3000 is a 96th percentile score. And that’s the minimum requirement to have your application not filtered ? Glad I’m not from Australia lol
@@dareneinheuser2174 The MCAT is an old test that was discontinued in Australia in 2019. UCAT replaced it, but I'm not sure if that was a good thing lol
I know there is a difference between the UK UCAT and the UCAT ANZ. I don't how much of a difference it makes but they release different results and exam overview in each cycle.
In India, we need to go through NEET-UG as soon as we finish our high school. There are three sections in NEET-UG - Physics, Chemistry and Biology where the questions asked in Physics and Chemistry are of College level. There are more than 15 million (19 million this year) aspirants every year while there are only 48000 government medical College seats in India. That means we compete with 395 other students for one seat. It is arguably the most competitive exam in the world.
Uncalled for but thought I would share a little bit of the admissions process in Taiwan. Most programs are six years in length (our system is kind of a combination of the US and UK systems), though there are a few that are similar to US med schools, requiring a bachelor's degree beforehand and lasting for 4 years. You only need a high school diploma to apply to the 6 year one, but it is extremely competitive. Applicants will generally need a top 1-2% percentile college entrance exam score to get in, and around 30-50% of matriculants have spent one or more years retaking the exam. I know people with master's/PhD degrees retaking this supposedly high-school level exam for a spot in med school and personally I studied occupational therapy for 3 years in undergrad before getting in. During the 4th and 6th year of med school we take steps 1 and 2 of the TWMLE as well as an OSCE-based clinical skills exam before getting licensed and proceeding to the next step of training-2 years as a PGY physician rotating through all the major specialties, and then 3-7 years of residency/fellowship/whatever. It's a shitshow and legend has it that some folks have been reapplying without success for 12 years or something.
I’m Canadian. I took an undergraduate, a graduate, and a doctoral degree at the top two Canadian universities. I have a very competitive GPA, MCAT scores in the ninety-sixth percentile, extensive extracurriculars including relevant volunteer, research, and clinical experience. I have previously served in the Royal Medical Corps of the CEF during the Great War, and saw action at Ypres, Vimy, Cambrai, Mons, and the Somme. I have been trying to get into a Canadian medical school since Kaiser Bill fled to Doorn. ADDENDUM (edit). I’m still at it.
See I’m not nearly as accomplished as you are best of luck these horror stories are what are making me change to pursuing a career in dentistry instead
Most of what you said about the UK system was correct, but I would like to add a few things. Firstly entrants having on average a higher UCAT score is not necessarily and indication of how competitive or High-tier or low-tier the specific university it. It may just be that they place more emphasis on the other parts of the application. For example, a Medical school that admits students with UCAT scores of around 2400 would likely place more emphasis on the personal statement, interviews, or even A-level (or equivalent) grades, but a medical school with a higher average (say around 2750) would probably put more of an emphasis on that. It is also worth mentioning that there is also the BMAT with is required instead of the UCAT in a few medical schools. I think that in the video you were talking about how competitive it is for students who already live in that country (or home students), but it is worth mentioning that for international students in the UK it is very different to home students in terms of competitiveness and cost. This is mainly because the number of places for international students is very strictly limited. In places the number of places for international students is as low as around 14 in around 250-300 (varies between medical schools). The cost is also much higher for international students. It can be as higher as £60,000 a year in places, compared to the £9250 it currently is for home students at all universities. The main reason for both of these is that, in the UK, medical schools are training you to be a good Doctor in the UK's NHS, and so they want to limit the number of people who come here, get a medical degree then go back to the country they lived in before to practice medicine, whether that be the US, Canada or any other country. In fact, to apply to medical school in the UK you are expected to know roughly how the NHS works and current issues within our health service. If you are not intending to work in the NHS this is likely to come across to the admissions teams (because you wouldn't know as much about this as you are expected to) and would likely count against you. I am not saying it is impossible to do this, I am just saying that it is important to keep this in mind if you are an international applicant. Other than that what you said was very accurate for home students. Thank you for making this video it was very interesting.
Being a premed from another Western Europe country that is not the UK, I can tell you the process can be quite competitive and messy even. The most common pathway is application right after high school like in the UK and then we also have the graduate programs and this is where it gets messy. Each university has its own requirements in their graduate application program.... This is my pathway as I already got a degree... All I can tell you is that I am studying for an entry exam pretty much like the MCAT minus the psychology contents you guys have, but then I will also apply to another med school here which requires us to do the UCAT. In addition, here, in the graduate pathway, only a selected few are going to write these exams as they use a formula (different to each college too...) to calculate who makes it or not to the exam step..... Pheeeeeew. Much love!
My country has medium 1:52 (in 2016) and 1:300 (in 2016) for some of the best in the country. The difficulty only increases every year. It's normal for someone to study by themselves for 3 or 4 years before getting into med school.
Canada is getting straight up ridiculous. It's starting to make me wonder whether our country actually wants to fix our collapsing healthcare system or if we're truly happy watching it crumble in front of us (I'm thinking it's the latter). I'm hoping to become a family physician but I won't have my intelligence belittled or sacrifice my soul trying to be unrealistically perfect trying to submit more than 3 applications. I fully support people pursuing goals but not to unhealthy extents. Having backup plans doesn't make someone uncommitted.
I think in terms of measuring competitiveness, the GEM (Graduate Entry Medicine) in the UK seems to hold more parallels to US, Canada, Austrailia etc. (Which of course makes sense, as it is a post-bachelor course like US and Canada). UCAT scores of 90th+ percentile are usually required for a successful application/interview spot for a GEM course and are generally much more competitive than the regular 5 year undergrad courses. But yes, I think overall the initial application process for a pre-med in the UK is less arduous compared to some other countries, although the length of our training + issues with the NHS makes it a potentially less tempting pathway overall.
90 percentile it's nothing here in India we have to get 99 percentile (minimum) to be even considered to a med school infact for prestigious colleges like AIIMS( all india institute of medical sciences) it is even higher than that infact the test itself contains the level of depth taught in bachelors 1st year in many countries(in UK and north america) for example we have to take compulsory physics and chemistry with ofcourse biology and give a competitive exam called NEET with level of physics and chemistry being equivalent to that of individual bachelors in the respective subjects and yes we have to do all this while we are in high school which in itself is very difficult specially considering asian countries
@@united4606 and your point is...? I suggest if you're truly looking to study medicine, you teach yourself how to be humble and be empathetic. All med students are going to go through a tough pathway in order to bring the best healthcare to patients - holding on to this weird competitiveness and bragging is only going to make you a toxic healthcare professional.
In India there is an entrance exam called NEET to get into medical schools. 1.6M took the exam in 2021 with just around 45k seats. there is a lot of competition and people usually take 1-2 years of drop to prepare for the exam. In the exam you have to solve 200Q in 180mins (50 physics +50 chem+100 bio)
I did NEET, found out that General category barely has any seats, so I just left and started medicine in Australia. I wouldn’t mind competing in India but it’s straight up unfair I couldn’t be bothered to even try.
Meanwhile, here in Brazil, there is an average of 57 applicants per spot 💀 💀 💀 if anyone is curious why that is, it's because most students enter med school directly after high school by a national entrance exam, and since that entrance exam is valid to all med schools in the country, everyone ends up competing everywhere, so aside from alternative means that are still super competitive (like a local entrance exam hosted by the particular university), the only people who pass are the ones with the absolute best scores in the country (the fact that the test only happens once per year also doesn't help make it any more accessible since if you get sick on the day of the test then you are out of luck)
Do pay a visit to India sometime... Its gonna kick all these countries for not only being in medical school but even getting in. 2 million students write the entrance exam and only 100k get into medical school.
@@jrr3613 what do you smoke? India is 3rd world? It's the worlds 5th largest economy. I'm damn sure this has been portrayed to you by documentaries of slums and other movies. Really isn't the case.
I really need a “so you want to be a CRNA” video from you! I love your content as it’s so much more reliable and unbiased than a lot of other info out there!
The reason why the UK may seem easier is due to the difference in school prestige and competitiveness. While it's touted in the UK that "all med schools are the same," that isn't all true. The med schools that are prestigious (Oxford, Cambridge, UCL, Imperial, Edinburgh, St. Andrews and possibly KCL) all have extremely low acceptance rates. These schools are vastly superior than all the other UK schools in the percentage of students who are in high-echelon academic positions, who match into US residencies (Edinburgh grads, for example, have founded 5/7 ivy league medical schools, and Oxbridge have the history and name) at Johns Hopkins, Harvard, UCSF etc, and have bountiful opportunities in terms of research in the US, UK and Canada. People generally DONT apply to schools like Brunel, or Buckingham as they set you up poorly.
@@callum4387 Imperial College London ranked 2nd in the most globally used QS World University rankings for 2025, just behind MIT surpassing Oxford and Cambridge. Have you been smoking something LOOL
The amount of spots available in these countries is still very high in comparison to a country like Austria. With a similar amount of applications, namely 18k and only 1850 spots available.
It makes me sad as a canadian trying to get into med school. I graduated u of t with a 3.95 gpa and 519 mcat. Looking like I wont get in this year... Gonna keep doing my best to get in but damn can it get demotivating.
You should cover the Indian medical school system as well. Also, if I may, I see a lot of students saying that there are 40k -60k medical seats in India for 2 million aspirants. But once we take reservation into account, which is like, 55% seats reserved, the general category is only left with about 20-30k seats. Subtract another 5-10k as a good chunk of these seats are in colleges that are too expensive for a middle class person( we lack have a medical loan system like US) while the rest are in severely understaffed or undeveloped colleges. In all, a general middle class guy is left with 10-15k seats in the entire country. Oh , and did I mention? The "non-general" that have reservation also complete with the general for these 10-15 k seats. In all, that leaves you with atleast 200 students competing for each seat. Also,the selection exam (neet) is of 720 marks and is MCQ type with 4 marks for a correct answer, and -1 for a wrong one. Furthermore, recently , the level of the paper has been dropped, as a result of which more and more students are getting marks above 700, which in turn is increasing the competition at a massive rate.
Dumbo, there are 90K mbbs seats in india with about 50K govt also with 50% private schools on govt. fees. OBC/EWS cutoff are almost same as GEN. Further SC/ST have only 22.5% reservation and when EWS reservation was implemented 25% seats where increased. So stop blaming everything and read Bakke case(1978) for US med system.
How difficult do you think it would be to do premed while also doing a bachelor’s degree in computer science in comparison to doing a bachelor’s degree in biology/biochemistry?
it would be more difficult as the requirements for med school do not align very well with comp science as they do with biology/biochemistry. If you are really determined then yeah you can do it. But if I was you I would ask myself why am I majoring in comp science if I want to become a doctor? Is it going to help me? You have to outweigh all of the costs and see if a harder course load is worth it. Besides that, it DEFINATELY is still possible you get accepted into med schools. They would probably like that a lot since they can see you can put up with a ton of work.
Hey currently a computer science and pre med student. I’m majoring in bioinformatics which is under the computer science umbrella and I have a few friends that are purely computer science. Most BS CS programs require you to take Cal 1 and 2 and 2 science classes for 2 semesters. That would take care of your bio requirements and physics requirements. You would just have to take the chemistry classes as major electives, but myself and my friends found it pretty do able. Hopefully that helps!
@@mh7915 Also how do you manage to do summer internships/personal projects for computer science and also do volunteering/research/shadowing along with preparation for the MCAT as a premed student?
@@metis3097 you really have to utilize your summers. I have not had a single summer off since starting college. I did research volunteering, and shadowing during the school year. Internship during one summer. Another summer I did research. I currently have a break from April 28th to June 6th, so I am studying all day everyday for the MCAT and I will take it June 4th. It is definitely a lot but I was able to manage 400+ hours of research, 100+ volunteers hours, 80+ shadowing hours, a job, being very active in my sorority, lots of leadership, and I’ll be graduating with my master. You got this! Time management is super important and college definitely won’t be a time for you to party, but with lots of hard-work you can do it!
Wow…. Totally different systems from what I’m used to (Switzerland). And a surprisingly large percentage gets in… 😂 How it works in Switzerland (in case you are interested 😂) We are kind of slowly selected thruought school (only those with "higher" highschool diploma are allowed to) => which less than 50% do (and some of these are not like.....for all university studies) Then we apply online => we choose our favorite uni, and after that 2nd favorite etc. (And we kind of apply to all med schools nationwide at ones and only one at the same time), in summer (approx 2months before the semester starts) we all write an exam. One single exam, there we are tested on things like 3dimensional-understanding, reading complex texts, mathematical understanding, focusing well etc => its not really knowledge based but abilities based). And that exam is the ONLY thing that determines if you are allowed to study medicine (and among those that get in you get sorted into your unis according to your preference and your score). Grades in HS dont matter, we dont really do extracurricular activities/clubs that are organized by schools and they dont matter. Approximately 25% get a place (numbers of places and applicants both rise....but applicants faster). => then we can accept or decline (because for some that would mean going across the country while they live close to another uni/have a programm they dont really like) Once you are in.... you have a 6 year program, the first 2 "kick" the most ppl (40 among 400 repeat the first year....and idk how many actually leave) Good thing is that the fees are only like less than 1000$ per semester (and you can get government help....not loans), many work, but that mostly bc either they live away from their parents or want extra money for their free time.
I don't think that I learned anything in the collegiate pre-med program that was of any use at all in med. school. However many courses were valuable in enabling me to ace the MCAT without any additional preparation. In fact, I was running a bio experiment for a 600 level course during MCAT exam breaks.Should that be the purpose of a college education? Of course not. Anyhow, remember that med. school is just the very beginning of your career. It's not difficult but it can be tedious. Overall though it's a great experience. I think that the most difficult aspect of a career in medicine is staying current in your field. Mediocrity is absolutely unacceptable.
Please i need to know what does international students expect if they want to enter med school. My country doesn't have the extracurricular thing that western countries have
Here in the UK, extracurriculars and even work experience aren't requirements. As long as you can write down examples of leadership and similar traits, and talk about these in an interview.
The US program is broken, 8 years of med school without the spécialities. Guys if you want to go on med school forget the US and Canada just go to Europe, it's easy, you just need to work af for 2 monthes ant then you'll get in cuz there you just need your baccalaurea with 3.7 gpa at least and pass a competitive exam, then you'll need to work 5 years and you'll be officialy a med guy, then if you want to specialise on somthing specific like brain surgon... it's to 2 to 5 years of studies depending of what you wanna do, and meanwhile you work as a doctor till you finish the program.
God I am glad I am a retired physician. Knowing what I know now I don't know if I would want to go through the process again. Hell, who am I kidding. I'd do it in a heartbeat. Biggest change I would make is this time I would sign that contract to go to Uniformed Services University of Health Sciences instead of balking at the last minute. Life would have been a lot different.
2 роки тому
Hi, did you have your loans forgiving by the army?
@ No, I joined the NG while in Med School and then stayed in for a few years. My wife hated the military and gave me the choice... Her or the Army. Stupid me I chose her. Had I signed the contract with USUHS my medical education would have been free. I still don't know what I was thinking when I turned it down. I ended up going to Iowa and practicing there for decades. One guy in my class made Admiral several years ago. I doubt I would have made General rank. I'm not political enough. Still a Full Bird Colonel 's retirement pay is pretty damn good.
@ If I remember correctly ( this was over 40 years ago) it was 2 years for each year of Med School (8 total) and 11/2 for each year of residency. So say you wanted to be a General Surgeon, it would break down like this for time in service. 4 years of Med School= 4 years. Payback service time for Med School= 8 years. General Surgery residency= 5 years. Payback for Surgery residency= 71/2 years. So by the time you have fulfilled your residency contract you will already have 241/2 years of service in. By that time your rank will be at least O-5 (Lt. Col.), more likely Full Bird Col. (O-6). Only 1 step away from that magical Generals star. Do I stay or do I retire? The highest rank you can get in the Medical Corps is Major General (O-8). These are the people that command places like Walter Reed. Keep in mind that once you hit O-6 you might not practice a huge amount of medicine as you have a good chance of being chained to a command desk. Also choose your specialty wisely. The military leans heavily on surgeons of all types, ER docs, Gas passers, radiologists. Less so on Ob/Gyn, FP, Int. Medicine specialties and Pathology. Doesn't mean you won't get the rank, it just may take longer. I once worked with a retied 2 star (major General) that was an Ob/Gyn. Also reenlistment bonus' are usually much more for the "desired" specialties. Is it a good deal? It depends on you and what you want out of your medical career. You most likely won't be paid as much but you will have 0 overhead. You will travel, but it might not be to where you want to go. You can be deployed to a war zone. As one of the "desired" specialties that's almost a guarantee. For me, I already had 6 years enlisted in and would have been the better path. I kick myself every day for not signing that contract Good Luck to you as you pursue your dreams.
@@donaldhall8785 I think there's a good reason why your wife hated the military. Though I am not sure if that reason also applies to the medical military service
Taking data from 2021 grading isnt particularly accurate to what would normally happen since alevel exams didnt even take place that year. They were teacher predicted.
From INDIA'S perspective Every year around 15-17 lac ( 1.7 million) pre meds give entrance exam for a limited 2000-3000 seats The selection rate is 0.18 % and the competition is cut throat As a person who has cracked the exam myself i can clarify that its one of the hardest exams to crack just by the sheer number of applicants that want to go into med school
Typically for undergrad a score of 99.5 or higher is required unless you have some other achievements. That means top 5 in a 1000 high school graduates. For post grad ie MD programs it’s a combination of GPA, Gamsat and interview.
Like he mentions in the video MANY pre-meds in the US in college do not end up even applying because they got weeded out. I know more than 20 of my friends who were all pre med coming in to the top university in my state, and I’m the only one standing to even apply, and now matriculate. There just aren’t numbers to quantify that.
@@davidcollins905 yes that is true, the 20% statistic is grossly based on candidates clearing the preliminary selection stages. We need a wider pool to get the full statistics, however still it would not be very accurate.
Either because they do not come out properly prepared from High School, or because Colleges want to take people's money taking advantage of people who don't want to do with their life, by offering to come to have an experience and party while taking classes they should have taken in HS. Sincerely, the whole "going to College" in the US before going to the University makes absolutely no sense to me, and while Americans have explained it to me a million times, I still have yet to see the point. If you ask me, it is just a money grab.
I’m hoping the fact I’m a sophomore and still not technically even premed (waiting to transfer schools & didn’t realize I wanted to do it until the middle of sophomore) will increase my chance of finishing still a premed 😂
You are 100% WRONG! Your Statistics and analysis are wrong! Using your analytics and data, the results (we derived) are the exact opposite! All my relatives are trained doctors in USA and Canada, they disagree with you! They could not get into UK Medical school straight out of high school and university l, but was easily got interviews and acceptance from several North America Medical schools in USA and Canada. Doctors I work with who are trained and now lecturing in medical schools in North America and supervising new graduates UK found these IMG are much more prepared, they are sending their kids to UK school for their medical education!
i am an international student and study CAIE. One of my friends recently got accepted into UCLA because she acheived 7 A* for her IGCSE and apparently that was equivalent to a 4.0 GPA. Literally 20 ppl in my grade achieved 7 A*s 15 ppl achieved 8A* and 5 ppl achieved grades above 8A*.....
I find a lot of people, questioning whether they're "smart" enough to do medicine. Perhaps, you can make a video on hardwork vs "intelligence" in medicine. A detailed video on your personal opinion of what it means to be "intelligent" and hardworking in the field of medicine will be interesting! Awesome videos! Keep up the great work!
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Great idea
Short answer: both
You do need to be intelligent to get a grasp of the sometimes really complex problems and connections.
Similarly you need to work hard, no matter your intelligence, because it’s just a huge amount of info
(I’m finishing my 3rd year in a 6year program at med school)
Maybe I can give you some perspective. I'm a medical doctor who is involved in training Internal Medicine (IM) residents in two hospitals (I'm not in the U.S.). There are times when we had to terminate some residents from the programs because they were simply unable to keep up. IM is tough because it places a premium on intellect; you must have good theoretical knowledge ("book knowledge") plus good clinical skills and use these two in concert to analyze your patient's problems, come up with a correct diagnosis, then formulate a proper treatment plan. Some of the residents that were removed from the programs had good work ethic, but bluntly put they weren't bright enough to endure the mental/intellectual demands of the training. In short, even if you're the most diligent person in the class or batch of trainees, there is only so much that diligence can do.
Applying this to med school is pretty much the same, you can study like hell but it requires a certain degree of intellect to actually be able to retain and use what you studied. In one med school in my country, fully one-third of medical students don't make it to their final year and quit along the way. A class starts off with around 600 students and roughly 200 graduate. Obviously not all of this is because these students aren't bright enough (for example, some realize they don't like pursuing Medicine) but for a good number this is the reason, as evidenced by failing grades.
It is both like most STEM fields. Please stop pushing anti intellectualist nonsense that Americans are eating up nowadays.
In the UK they pay us peanuts. Its only good if you want to have a relatively decent lifestyle at the expense of pay. Its great if you’re coming from a third world country, if you’re from Canada or the US I think you’ll be better off staying in your country.
This is actually really helpful thank you!
Thank you!!!! I really appreciate this honest review.
Also “residency” is much longer in UK than in USA 😕
How difficult would it be to get a medical degree in the UK (at say OxBridge) and then do a residency in America and ultimately practice in the US?
I’ve seen the pay scale for doctors in the UK and it’s really, really insulting. After ten years there a physician doesn’t make as much as my daughter makes as a nurse here. You would think they could pay them better given the crushing income tax rates that the Brits pay?🤷🏻♂️
In the UK, things are a bit more competitive than you think. There are actually only a handful of medical schools which accept a UCAT below 2700 and these are mainly aimed for contextual students (something similar to affirmative action in the USA). Most medical schools will require a score above 2700 meaning you need to be in the top 20% at a minimum. Most medical schools, despite their requirements being AAA in a A-Level, are almost certainly likely to reject you if you applied with those predicted grades and usually expect at least A*AA or A*A*A to have a decent shot of getting in. You have also missed out on another key admission exam called the BMAT. This applies to about 20% of the UK medical schools including the most competitive and prestigious ones such as Cambridge, Oxford, UCL, Imperial and a few others - a lot of candidates will take both exams. For these more competitive universities, you would require a top 20% score at a minimum in the BMAT before being interviewed.
So once you have the minimum grade and admission score to meet their cut offs, (roughly about 40% of applicants), you will need to pass the interview (approximately 30%-70% do). At this point you will receive a conditional offer where you will need to meet certain grades in your A-Levels otherwise you will lose your place. Most medical schools, this offer would then be AAA or A*AA (Cambridge being the only one requiring A*A*A).
Similarly to the USA and Canada, there are also a lot of extra curriculars required. Most competitive students will undertake 50+ hours of volunteering / healthcare work within a 1 year period alongside their studies. Work experience in several placements is very frequently a minimum as well as research projects, further reading into the career and many students also take on an EPQ (a large and graded research project) too to increase their chances.
The limiting of four medical school choices also make this process a lot harder as we cannot simply brute force apply to as many schools as we like and hope one of them hits. You have to be very tactical on where you apply by choosing the right schools by looking at previous admissions data - but past figures can often change quite dramatically and students are often rejected from 1 or 2 of their 4 choices they felt confident in because of a sudden and significant change. Yes, we do not have to complete a degree to apply to Medicine, or publish research papers but our application process does take place at the age of 16-17 and is quite intense in a short period of time.
Side Note: this isn't a rant or complaint, but just trying to paint a more accurate picture of the UK medical school application process. The USA and Canada may well be more competitive than in the UK - I just wanted to get a point across.
Totally agree with what you are saying. I personally don't think the video accurately portrays the difficulty of getting into medical school in the UK.
I applied to medical school three years ago. Even though I had predicted grades (and achieved grades) of 4 A*s at A level, achieved a reasonable UCAT score of 2650 (SJT band 1), achieved 10 A*s at IGCSE AND volunteered at care homes on a weekly basis ---- I only ended up getting 1 invitation to interview.
Luckily, 1 invitation was all that I needed to secure an offer after my interview.
Basically, securing a place at medical school in the UK is unbelievably competitive as well. Securing an offer is a long, stressful process which involves highly competitive academic results, solid work experience and strong interview skills.
As a top 6th percentile scorer in the UCAT and 3/4 offer holder I completely agree with your constructive criticism
Do international students from Africa have to meet these requirements as well ?
Also, it seems a shame to me that the GEM route was ignored here entirely as this is arguably the most directly comparable route to the US and Canada with even higher competition ratios. I appreciate that it forms the minority of those who get into med school but it includes a significant amount of those that go on to practice.
Plus you are then in the conversation to mention the 6hr GAMSAT exam which is pretty challenging. I believe only around the top 20% from the GAMSAT even get considered for an interview (please correct me if this is out of date though)
To put things in perspective I think the reason medical school in the US (and Canada as well) is hard to apply to is because it’s a doctorate level program so people have all of university to prepare their applications, and many take a gap year or 2 or 3 etc. to prepare their application even after university. I think America is much more competitive EC wise because of their “holistic” application process. I had top 1% school stats (mcat and gpa), hundreds of volunteering, hundreds of clinical experience, hundreds of research, hundreds of club/leadership, dozens of shadowing, and I only got offers from like 10-15% of the schools I applied to. I know people with publications, hundreds upon hundreds of hours of ECs, very good grades like at least top 15%, good references, applied to 20+ schools, etc. and not get in. Also, essay writing/telling your story is a HUGE factor in med school admissions in America in my opinion, many subjective components like a person’s “character”. You can’t brute force your way by just applying to a ton of schools in the US, you’ll just get rejected by all of them if your application is flawed. The only way to brute force your way in is to take extra years after graduating university to bulk up your resume and application.
So tbh, it’s impossible to compare because by the time students apply to medical schools in America, they are hungry, career driven professionals, not just teenagers
In terms of competitiveness
1-Canada
2-USA
3-UK
In terms of pay
1-USA
2-Canada
3-UK
In terms of slave wages
1- UK
2-N/A
3-N/A
@@jrr3613competitiveness and salary are both objective measures.
uk is more competitive than us. US just takes longer so it's more annoying but uk is more competitive in the year of applying to med school cos uk students have better education than us students on average cos of us education system not being great.
@@cristonronaldo-ul7tccope lmao
@@sasquatch8268 you replied against the fax i said out of cope. 😭
@@cristonronaldo-ul7tc no no cope cope lmaooo
I actually didn’t know this thank you so much for this video. It really helps when deciding where to go for school 🙏🏽
I competed in India where I had to compete with 1.5 million students to get a seat in a Government medical college, I had to rank in the top 2000 students, and I did. Luckily, in India the government College education is almost free so I never had to pay much for my medical degree!
Wtf . The biggest med college in india aims doesnt even require interviews or mmi 😂😂 just on the basis of scores or caste u can get admission . Not to mention without essays . 😂Thats easy as fuck
@Teddy mc Bones You are always welcome to compete. Btw, I'm in Harvard currently. Good luck!
@@obaid.h support from India
Well done 😂😂
@@diggishsharma6264 Thanks dude!
@@obaid.h Hii bro. Assalamalaikum....I m currently a med student in India.
How can I go to Harvard....plz assist me a bit.
For A Levels in the UK, an AAA grade would be 80% or higher. An A*AA grade would be similar, with the exception that the grade for one subject has to be 90% or higher
Biology AQA 2019 grade boundary for an A* was 69%
@@glokjdfngkjsdnf1104 indeed but it’s apples and oranges - UK high school exams are significantly harder then US high school classes - so even though a 90% is an A in the US doesn’t make it harder
@@callum4387 eh depends on the district youre in in the us
@@khimcleod3459 I don’t know how they mark in us but I tutored chemistry for a bit. Most questions are not testing fact recall but are application, Tbf I don’t think Chem is too difficult at A level uk but other exams are very challenging. You might get 95% of the questions right but get 60-65% overall. Which is disheartening and then people feel inadequate with their ability.
@@callum4387 Yea that’s a huge blanket statement U.S schools are not created equal. Usually the higher income areas have better education in the U.S. Also, Magnet and Governor schools are harder than regular public high schools.
Pleasantly surprised how accurate your understanding of the UK system is to be fair. Only a couple of bits weren't right on
UK is very competitive. It was a 14 to 1 ratio at my med school. Lower debt but also WAY lower pay than the US! Not a good career if you're after wealth. Med school is shorter but specialty training is much longer and due to the monopsony of the NHS, you can't train anywhere but the NHS. Plus there are a lot of specialty bottlenecks that prevent progression, in the name of service provision. Anyway, loving the videos as usual :)
How difficult would it be to get a medical degree in the UK (at say OxBridge) and then do a residency in America and ultimately practice in the US?
@@AlphaNumeric123 Very hard from from what I understand, US trained med students get first dibs (or thereabouts) in the match process leaving the less desirable specialties and locations. Happy to be corrected if wrong. You'll still have to do the USMLE step exams as well. But don't let that stop you if it's what you want!
And the competition for Oxbridge is beastly
@@AlphaNumeric123 I don't know about the transfer between the UK to the US, but I can tell you that you will find it very hard to find a place in any medical school here (in the UK), especially so at Oxford or Cambridge (you can only apply to one in any given year.
This is mainly because places for international students in UK medical schools are very strictly limited. I know that at Cambridge they are only around 14 places in a cohort of around 250-300. So it is ridiculously competitive. This is mainly because at UK medical schools they are training you to be a good Doctor in our NHS and so they are trying to discourage people from doing what you are proposing.
Also, in your application to a UK medical school, you are expected to be aware of problems within the UK's NHS. If you are intending to go back to the US after your medical degree here it will probably be obvious to the admissions team as you will not care as much about problems in the NHS and it will count against you.
I am not saying that it is impossible but it would be very difficult and possibly not the best use of your time.
Yes, I'm a UK med student and I'd agree with most of the understanding. ConceptSoup is completely correct about post grad training. The hardest part about being a dr in the UK is not getting into med school, it's passing post grad exams eg. MRCS, and getting training posts.
Just a few things about the UK medical school application which I think others have touched upon:
GCSE Grades - the grades medical schools want for GCSE's are much lower than what the average medical school applicant actually has achieved. Majority of medical school applicants will have all A*/A's (9/8/7's now under the new grading system).
A-Levels - you are given 'predicted' A-Level grades at the beginning of your last year of college (equivalent to last year in high school in the US I believe). Many uni's may have an AAA requirement, however, to be competitive and have a decent chance of receiving an interview offer you most likely need a predicted of A*AA or higher. Predicted grades are based on your performance in your first year of A-Level mostly, but some teachers can be very generous whilst others very strict - and so there is a slight element of luck in this part of the process.
Work experience/volunteering - wasn't mentioned at all in the video. Whilst we do not have any specific hours like how the US had, it is expected students have had significant exposure in a healthcare/medical setting where they have ideally interacted with patients or followed a doctor. No specific requirements like I mentioned, but it is almost a guaranteed rejection if you apply without adequate work experience.
UCAT/BMAT - Maybe the situation has changed, but when I applied in 2018, a UCAT of below 2600 would not be considered by universities. The BMAT is also another entrance exam which exists, for the more competitive uni's such as Cambridge, Oxford, UCL etc. Many students will have to prepare for both of these exams simultaneously.
I got my acceptance Monday! Can’t wait to start in the fall
Germany
- basically you have to have a perfect A-level score
or (since 2020)
- have a really good A-level-score + a perfect TMS (test for medical degrees) + already have a degree in the medical field (I‘ve already got a three year nursing degree + clinical experience) + volunteering
Medicine in Germany is a 6 year degree and you don‘t have to pay high fees
(Sry for my bad english, I worked a hard night shift)
The selection process is nuts in India:
About 2 Million students give the medical entrance exam for about 40,000 seats.
That's like 50 students competing for 1 spot.
As an indian, yes this is a fact
i cleared it and got an amazing college 💪
Yes but half of the students have 0 chance of getting in anyway, so the actual competition is lower.
@@harveypraz7962 if that’s the case, that applies to any country
@@iswoo4705 that's actually not true. The societal pressures in India to do medicine are much stronger than elsewhere, and so skew the self-selection
Wow I had no idea. In Italy is so different! There is a national test happening every year right after the end of highschool, about topics like science, physics, math ecc. and everyone with an highschool diploma can partecipate. Usually there are 70.000 people competing for 14.000 spots, and based on your score you can choose before others where you woud like to study. The highest is the score, the wider is your choice. The degree is 5 years long, and after that there is another national test to decide the specialization (again, the highest the score, the wider the choice) which is usually another 4 or 5 years long with retribution. They don't care about your highscool career or extracurricular activities, if you studied and you know stuff, you get in; if you don't, you have a whole year to prepare better and try again. Onestly, I like this system, since it really values your knowledge. Cheers by a first year Italian med student
Do they have their curriculum in English??
Some light on the process in South Africa: We have a very similar system as the UK. A 5/6 year course directly after high school and 3 years compulsory training after med school. So best case scenario 8 years before you get licensed. We have a similar test to the MCAT and UCAT. However, the sheer amount of applicants is what makes our selection so difficult. It might seem like I’m making these numbers up, but I assure you they are accurate.
In 2014 a total of 36000 applications were sent in for a total of 1770 spots. That equates to a 5% acceptance rate… This figure increased a lot over the years. Getting into med school is nowhere easy…
As a top 5 UK med school matriculant, I don't think this paints the complete picture for UK med school admissions, however, what was said was accurate. Good job, nevertheless!
How difficult would it be to get a medical degree in the UK (at say OxBridge or other elite unis) and then do a residency in America and ultimately practice in the US?
@@AlphaNumeric123 I ask myself that same question but rather with Pakistan instead of UK. You would have to study for exams like the usmle when you come back and from what I have heard you may not get into a residency program that corresponds to the specialty that you want to take part in, especially if that specialty is highly competitive.
@Scrimp as a bottom 5 UK med school matriculant, i think your comment is not 100% accurate and could be improved. but good job on writing it nevertheless
@@AlphaNumeric123 Oxbridge will really help residency applications in US because it goes without saying their international notability is second to non, especially in the UK. Very few other elite UK uni names can boost your prospects but nowhere near as much as Oxbridge (Imperial, UCL, KCL etc..) but overall these may only be recognised by academics who may not be the ones who review your residency application.
TLDR: Oxbridge is your best bet to get into a good US program for obvious reasons, and while other elite UK unis can too, not it’s a quite lower chance when up against the other Ivies.
UK University rankings don’t matter for med school in the UK
You forgot to mention that A levels =four years of your science courses in the US Bs degree. I did A levels in Maths, Bio, and chem and I’m now about to finish my chem undergrad in the US. It's basically the same stuff I did in two years.
Also in A levels, your final grede was based on the final exams only. So you had to learn stuff for two years and sit for about 5 exams at the end. Exams were a mixture of multiple-choice, feel-in, and practical exams.
This video about the UK has several flaws but the biggest is the A level grades. Yes last few yrs 19% have got A* but that's cuz of covid and the kids not sitting the exams. Teachers predictions where used and it lead to grade inflation. Before covid, it's around 8%. Students who got covid grades actually had to do examinations run by each medschool due to the massive grade inflation.
@B Georgellis During covid, medschool ran internal admission exams. They've stopped them now because A levels are back but last couple of yrs a large proportion of them made students do an admissions exam
This was great! Sending support from Canada.
In Canada, it works VERY differently in the province of Quebec! This is because we have "cegep" after secondary school.
Your Canada prerequisite part is mostly incorrect. Most schools have little to no course prerequisites except the University of Ottawa, which does not require any physics. The University of British Columbia requires two semesters of English, but that is its only requirement. The others simply require that you have a 3-4 year degree (some don't even require that you have a finished degree), that too in any discipline. There are also only 2832 seats. I know this is quite close to 3000, but thinking about the fact that is a difference of 168 candidates, I think it's worth the specification. Although, they are adding a new med school soon which might bring the amount of seats up to 3000. I also think the "20% admission rate" is a bit misleading. Most people don't apply to every school, and most schools usually have an acceptance rate of 2-5%. Some have much higher acceptances, but that's only because very few people apply to them, which is a further attestation to my point. I would say your chances of getting in are more around 4%, especially if you're applying to the more competitive schools such as those in Ontario or BC.
@@aflow- Great..? That's not relevant to my comment. Did you mean to comment this generally? I don't see why you'd post that as a reply here.
@@aflow-No one asked you
I'm a Canadian who went to the UK straight after high school. I'm about to finish first year so haven't been here long, but came to the UK to get straight into med school. As Dr. Jabbal said, Canadian premed is CUTTHROAT. I have friends in first year premed that are already struggling to keep up not because the course is hard, but becase everyone has to overachieve to even have a chance in medical school in Canada. I came to the UK to get my degree, with plans to apply as an IMG in Canada and US (even harder in Canada than US; what a surprise!). Because I took this route, competitive specialties are out of the question for me for sure, unless I want to stay in the UK with the low pay.
In India, we need to go through NEET-UG as soon as we finish our high school. There are three sections in NEET-UG - Physics, Chemistry and Biology where the questions asked in Physics and Chemistry are of College level.
There are more than 15 million (19 million this year) aspirants every year while there are only 48000 government medical College seats in India. That means we compete with 395 other students for one seat. It is arguably the most competitive exam in the world.
Hi, would you mind letting me know how the application process was? And if you're comfortable what your grades and extracurriculars were like? I find the AAA system confusing and am trying to compare it to my own grades
Nobody is interested in India, this is about US, UK and Canada.
@@saihajmangat2995Sorry if this is late but every university has a page that tells you how every A level grade would compare to grades from other countries
That's correct
I think it would be great to address the UK graduate entry system in another video as many US and Canadian citizens are unaware of the option. I’ve heard of stories where some people pursue the 5-6 year medicine track in the UK even after a bachelor degree.
I'm fairly certain that you can't get a student loan or the amount you get is limited if you choose to go into a standard 5 year medicine degree in the UK after already graduating with a degree from a university. Even with the accelerated graduate entry four year courses, students have to pay £3,500 out of pocket up front, I don't know whether this applies to dentistry graduates on the 3 year medicine degree pathway to maxillofacial surgery too.
In Sweden there are 12 class/grades. Last 3 are highschool. After that if you have almost perfect grades or get like 85% on the national college/university test you get a place on a 6 year long medical school. After that you do an all encompassing test where if you succeed you get a medical doctor's licence. Then you have to do like a 6 months internship and then you are free to doctor around i guess. Or specialize in something, which may vary from 3 to 10 years. Or you can do research.
That's the same in Syria, difference is that after high school you have to enter the preperatory year where 8000 students compete for 800 seats
Great video dude 🔥 for anyone wondering, there's been recent announcements here in Canada that they'll be adding more spots to certain Canadian medical schools and will likely even be opening 1-2 additional schools in the (relatively) near future, but from what I'm seeing and from speaking with new premeds... I'm not quite sure that this will do much to absorb the excess supply of applicants. On the other hand, adding new seats would do very little to address one of the largest issues with the Canadian system which is the lack of family medicine doctors in some Canadian provinces. Especially if the new medical students all decide to gun for ophthalmology or plastics. Hoping for the best 🇨🇦🤞
I’m in the process of changing my career goal to writing the DAT now rather then trying to fight for a medical school spot and fight for residency after in Canada
8:49 is fairly misleading - what the medical schools require and what is deemed competitive can be far apart, some unis you wont make the interview cut if your score is not competitive, even if you meet the requirement
Yeah I would agree lots don’t use them as cutoffs they are combined with grades/PS - it’s hard to compare on UCAT score
One key detail they forgot to mention is the financial burden in the US. College on average is about 30k per year for tuition vs Canada’s 6k per year. Canada’s medical school cost about 13k per year and the US’s is about 70k. All my friends in college have jobs. This takes a lot of time away from studying and volunteer hours.
Canadian med school tuition is around 25k on average trending upwards
@@Djme2 Considering that many doctors graduate with $250k or more in debt, $25k sounds like a dream.
@@niyatsiyum4774 25k per year. mine is 105k total 4 years. plus living expenses during med school +50k, plus undergrad + 30k or so. So 180k total. Not a dream
US also has better compensation for doctors so the student loans you take out can be paid off more predictably. Although I will concede it’s cheaper in Canada, it’s significantly harder so many Canadian students end up going to the US/UK/Australia as international students and paying way more.
@@Djme2Lmao that's nothing compared to US Medical schools who also take out loans for living expenses. $250k+ is just for tuition. It's not uncommon to see people with more than $400k+ in debt after four years of medical school in the US.
Getting into medical school, no matter where in the world, is competitive. No doubt. It's the nature of medicine in general. However, among the US, CAN, and UK, CAN is the most competitive out of the three. On top of that, there are less residencies in CAN in comparison even to the US. I myself know tons of CAN nationals (fellow physicians) who decided to study abroad in large part because of that, and decided to opt for residency in the US afterwards.
Good luck getting into medical school in Canada with a 4.0 GPA, 90%+ MCAT with a 127 CARS section!
(Does not apply to all schools, but it is ridiculous still).
90 percentile it's nothing
here in India we have to get 99 percentile (minimum) to be even considered to a med school
infact for prestigious colleges like AIIMS( all india institute of medical sciences) it is even higher than that
infact the test itself contains the level of depth taught in bachelors 1st year in many countries(in UK and north america)
for example we have to take compulsory physics and chemistry with ofcourse biology and give a competitive exam called NEET
with level of physics and chemistry being equivalent to that of individual bachelors in the respective subjects
and yes we have to do all this while we are in high school which in itself is very difficult specially considering asian countries
@@united4606 I love how so much barriers are put on front of aspiring physicians... To the point that they are forced to learn things that will never be useful to them in their careers.
India sounds really tough. My main comment actually was proving the point that in Canada, for some schools, your CARS score is all they care about in the MCAT. They base your preparation for taking care of patients on an English test about medieval politics. It always amazes me.
@@nightshockplayz5894 to be fair, not all schools focus on CARS so much - and those that focus on the entire test then also require your entire MCAT score to be obscenely high, plus extraordinary ECs as well (e.g. UBC)
@@journeytowellness16 Regardless, basing preparation for medical school on a section that has nothing to do with medicine and everything to do with liberal arts, history, and complex vocabulary is absurd.
At least in the UK you find out if you are going into medicine at 18. If not you can start doing something else, take a useful major. In the US, you can waste 4 college years just to find out you stuck in the process.
Well in Australia, Goodluck getting into any medical school with even a 2990 UCAT score. This year, most med schools required a 3040 UCAT minimum, so I'm not sure why U.K has such a low prereq
Most MD schools in Australia have a minimum of 500 MCAT to be considered, although probably matriculants score much higher than 500 (they don't publish the averages). I have a friend who got a 508, and he got into Deakin medical school.
Wtf, that’s insane. UCAT >3000 is a 96th percentile score. And that’s the minimum requirement to have your application not filtered ? Glad I’m not from Australia lol
@@dareneinheuser2174 The MCAT is an old test that was discontinued in Australia in 2019. UCAT replaced it, but I'm not sure if that was a good thing lol
Different system + most med sch in the UK don’t purely base interview offers on UCAT
I know there is a difference between the UK UCAT and the UCAT ANZ. I don't how much of a difference it makes but they release different results and exam overview in each cycle.
In India, we need to go through NEET-UG as soon as we finish our high school. There are three sections in NEET-UG - Physics, Chemistry and Biology where the questions asked in Physics and Chemistry are of College level.
There are more than 15 million (19 million this year) aspirants every year while there are only 48000 government medical College seats in India. That means we compete with 395 other students for one seat. It is arguably the most competitive exam in the world.
You can't keep your mouth shut can you?
Uncalled for but thought I would share a little bit of the admissions process in Taiwan. Most programs are six years in length (our system is kind of a combination of the US and UK systems), though there are a few that are similar to US med schools, requiring a bachelor's degree beforehand and lasting for 4 years. You only need a high school diploma to apply to the 6 year one, but it is extremely competitive. Applicants will generally need a top 1-2% percentile college entrance exam score to get in, and around 30-50% of matriculants have spent one or more years retaking the exam. I know people with master's/PhD degrees retaking this supposedly high-school level exam for a spot in med school and personally I studied occupational therapy for 3 years in undergrad before getting in. During the 4th and 6th year of med school we take steps 1 and 2 of the TWMLE as well as an OSCE-based clinical skills exam before getting licensed and proceeding to the next step of training-2 years as a PGY physician rotating through all the major specialties, and then 3-7 years of residency/fellowship/whatever. It's a shitshow and legend has it that some folks have been reapplying without success for 12 years or something.
They should limit the number of attempts to 3 for the applicant's sake. 12 years of trying is ridiculous.
I’m Canadian. I took an undergraduate, a graduate, and a doctoral degree at the top two Canadian universities. I have a very competitive GPA, MCAT scores in the ninety-sixth percentile, extensive extracurriculars including relevant volunteer, research, and clinical experience. I have previously served in the Royal Medical Corps of the CEF during the Great War, and saw action at Ypres, Vimy, Cambrai, Mons, and the Somme. I have been trying to get into a Canadian medical school since Kaiser Bill fled to Doorn. ADDENDUM (edit). I’m still at it.
See I’m not nearly as accomplished as you are best of luck these horror stories are what are making me change to pursuing a career in dentistry instead
Had me in the first half lol. Was thinking, wtf is this guy doing wrong??
Most of what you said about the UK system was correct, but I would like to add a few things.
Firstly entrants having on average a higher UCAT score is not necessarily and indication of how competitive or High-tier or low-tier the specific university it. It may just be that they place more emphasis on the other parts of the application. For example, a Medical school that admits students with UCAT scores of around 2400 would likely place more emphasis on the personal statement, interviews, or even A-level (or equivalent) grades, but a medical school with a higher average (say around 2750) would probably put more of an emphasis on that.
It is also worth mentioning that there is also the BMAT with is required instead of the UCAT in a few medical schools.
I think that in the video you were talking about how competitive it is for students who already live in that country (or home students), but it is worth mentioning that for international students in the UK it is very different to home students in terms of competitiveness and cost. This is mainly because the number of places for international students is very strictly limited. In places the number of places for international students is as low as around 14 in around 250-300 (varies between medical schools).
The cost is also much higher for international students. It can be as higher as £60,000 a year in places, compared to the £9250 it currently is for home students at all universities.
The main reason for both of these is that, in the UK, medical schools are training you to be a good Doctor in the UK's NHS, and so they want to limit the number of people who come here, get a medical degree then go back to the country they lived in before to practice medicine, whether that be the US, Canada or any other country. In fact, to apply to medical school in the UK you are expected to know roughly how the NHS works and current issues within our health service. If you are not intending to work in the NHS this is likely to come across to the admissions teams (because you wouldn't know as much about this as you are expected to) and would likely count against you.
I am not saying it is impossible to do this, I am just saying that it is important to keep this in mind if you are an international applicant.
Other than that what you said was very accurate for home students. Thank you for making this video it was very interesting.
Cool vid, thanks for the info Med School Insiders! Good luck to all my fellow students out there!!
Being a premed from another Western Europe country that is not the UK, I can tell you the process can be quite competitive and messy even. The most common pathway is application right after high school like in the UK and then we also have the graduate programs and this is where it gets messy. Each university has its own requirements in their graduate application program.... This is my pathway as I already got a degree... All I can tell you is that I am studying for an entry exam pretty much like the MCAT minus the psychology contents you guys have, but then I will also apply to another med school here which requires us to do the UCAT. In addition, here, in the graduate pathway, only a selected few are going to write these exams as they use a formula (different to each college too...) to calculate who makes it or not to the exam step..... Pheeeeeew. Much love!
Which WE cuntries require premed bachelors and offer a graduate medical degree?
Yesssssss I've been waiting for this✌🏼💛💛💛
I hope schools can open more spaces for students.There are alot of people who can get into med school its only the lack of space
Can you do more videos on Canada and Canadian Med schools
My country has medium 1:52 (in 2016) and 1:300 (in 2016) for some of the best in the country. The difficulty only increases every year. It's normal for someone to study by themselves for 3 or 4 years before getting into med school.
More videos on UK med schools??
Canada is getting straight up ridiculous. It's starting to make me wonder whether our country actually wants to fix our collapsing healthcare system or if we're truly happy watching it crumble in front of us (I'm thinking it's the latter). I'm hoping to become a family physician but I won't have my intelligence belittled or sacrifice my soul trying to be unrealistically perfect trying to submit more than 3 applications. I fully support people pursuing goals but not to unhealthy extents. Having backup plans doesn't make someone uncommitted.
Yeah the govt basically shit on my dreams with how they haven’t done marginally anything to ameliorate the problem at hand
India is hardest . 1 million candidates for few hundred seats .Thats why they run to US
I think in terms of measuring competitiveness, the GEM (Graduate Entry Medicine) in the UK seems to hold more parallels to US, Canada, Austrailia etc. (Which of course makes sense, as it is a post-bachelor course like US and Canada).
UCAT scores of 90th+ percentile are usually required for a successful application/interview spot for a GEM course and are generally much more competitive than the regular 5 year undergrad courses.
But yes, I think overall the initial application process for a pre-med in the UK is less arduous compared to some other countries, although the length of our training + issues with the NHS makes it a potentially less tempting pathway overall.
90 percentile it's nothing
here in India we have to get 99 percentile (minimum) to be even considered to a med school
infact for prestigious colleges like AIIMS( all india institute of medical sciences) it is even higher than that
infact the test itself contains the level of depth taught in bachelors 1st year in many countries(in UK and north america)
for example we have to take compulsory physics and chemistry with ofcourse biology and give a competitive exam called NEET
with level of physics and chemistry being equivalent to that of individual bachelors in the respective subjects
and yes we have to do all this while we are in high school which in itself is very difficult specially considering asian countries
@@united4606 and your point is...? I suggest if you're truly looking to study medicine, you teach yourself how to be humble and be empathetic.
All med students are going to go through a tough pathway in order to bring the best healthcare to patients - holding on to this weird competitiveness and bragging is only going to make you a toxic healthcare professional.
@@csho303 Most unis require gamsat but there's still few that need ucat
@@csho303 Yeah, quite a few will also require GAMSAT but it slipped my mind as I had only applied to UCAT GEM courses, my bad.
@@mark012498 Confusing, preceding reply from мαяιє is 'Most unis require gamsat'
In India there is an entrance exam called NEET to get into medical schools. 1.6M took the exam in 2021 with just around 45k seats. there is a lot of competition and people usually take 1-2 years of drop to prepare for the exam. In the exam you have to solve 200Q in 180mins (50 physics +50 chem+100 bio)
I did NEET, found out that General category barely has any seats, so I just left and started medicine in Australia. I wouldn’t mind competing in India but it’s straight up unfair I couldn’t be bothered to even try.
that sounds really neet
@@drsatyamupadhyayXD have a seat
@@drsatyamupadhyayXD wear a cleat
@@lonewolf604this year it was 22 lakh students writing neet for around 44000 seats
Meanwhile, here in Brazil, there is an average of 57 applicants per spot 💀 💀 💀
if anyone is curious why that is, it's because most students enter med school directly after high school by a national entrance exam, and since that entrance exam is valid to all med schools in the country, everyone ends up competing everywhere, so aside from alternative means that are still super competitive (like a local entrance exam hosted by the particular university), the only people who pass are the ones with the absolute best scores in the country
(the fact that the test only happens once per year also doesn't help make it any more accessible since if you get sick on the day of the test then you are out of luck)
Do pay a visit to India sometime... Its gonna kick all these countries for not only being in medical school but even getting in. 2 million students write the entrance exam and only 100k get into medical school.
Only. 50k
@@jrr3613 what do you smoke? India is 3rd world? It's the worlds 5th largest economy. I'm damn sure this has been portrayed to you by documentaries of slums and other movies. Really isn't the case.
I really need a “so you want to be a CRNA” video from you! I love your content as it’s so much more reliable and unbiased than a lot of other info out there!
Hi could you make a video about toxic competitiveness in med schools? Appreciate your videos!
In Portugal there were (in 2021) 12427 applicants for 1463 seats, so an acceptance rate of about 11% (therefore the lack of doctors in Portugal).
lol in INDIA its 0.1%
Damn asr
The USA is unique
In most of countries, students go to medical after high school and is a 6 years degree
Then post graduate 1and 2 then residency
Im surprised you didn’t discuss Korea or Japan. Why is that?
As a child, I had always imagined I will be a doctor. But money couldn't allow
The reason why the UK may seem easier is due to the difference in school prestige and competitiveness. While it's touted in the UK that "all med schools are the same," that isn't all true.
The med schools that are prestigious (Oxford, Cambridge, UCL, Imperial, Edinburgh, St. Andrews and possibly KCL) all have extremely low acceptance rates. These schools are vastly superior than all the other UK schools in the percentage of students who are in high-echelon academic positions, who match into US residencies (Edinburgh grads, for example, have founded 5/7 ivy league medical schools, and Oxbridge have the history and name) at Johns Hopkins, Harvard, UCSF etc, and have bountiful opportunities in terms of research in the US, UK and Canada.
People generally DONT apply to schools like Brunel, or Buckingham as they set you up poorly.
Does imperial still consider itself prestigious 😂
@@callum4387 Imperial College London ranked 2nd in the most globally used QS World University rankings for 2025, just behind MIT surpassing Oxford and Cambridge. Have you been smoking something LOOL
I am from Canada and this helped thank you
The amount of spots available in these countries is still very high in comparison to a country like Austria. With a similar amount of applications, namely 18k and only 1850 spots available.
It makes me sad as a canadian trying to get into med school. I graduated u of t with a 3.95 gpa and 519 mcat. Looking like I wont get in this year... Gonna keep doing my best to get in but damn can it get demotivating.
You should cover the Indian medical school system as well. Also, if I may, I see a lot of students saying that there are 40k -60k medical seats in India for 2 million aspirants. But once we take reservation into account, which is like, 55% seats reserved, the general category is only left with about 20-30k seats. Subtract another 5-10k as a good chunk of these seats are in colleges that are too expensive for a middle class person( we lack have a medical loan system like US) while the rest are in severely understaffed or undeveloped colleges. In all, a general middle class guy is left with 10-15k seats in the entire country. Oh , and did I mention? The "non-general" that have reservation also complete with the general for these 10-15 k seats. In all, that leaves you with atleast 200 students competing for each seat. Also,the selection exam (neet) is of 720 marks and is MCQ type with 4 marks for a correct answer, and -1 for a wrong one. Furthermore, recently , the level of the paper has been dropped, as a result of which more and more students are getting marks above 700, which in turn is increasing the competition at a massive rate.
Dumbo, there are 90K mbbs seats in india with about 50K govt also with 50% private schools on govt. fees. OBC/EWS cutoff are almost same as GEN. Further SC/ST have only 22.5% reservation and when EWS reservation was implemented 25% seats where increased. So stop blaming everything and read Bakke case(1978) for US med system.
How difficult do you think it would be to do premed while also doing a bachelor’s degree in computer science in comparison to doing a bachelor’s degree in biology/biochemistry?
it would be more difficult as the requirements for med school do not align very well with comp science as they do with biology/biochemistry. If you are really determined then yeah you can do it. But if I was you I would ask myself why am I majoring in comp science if I want to become a doctor? Is it going to help me? You have to outweigh all of the costs and see if a harder course load is worth it. Besides that, it DEFINATELY is still possible you get accepted into med schools. They would probably like that a lot since they can see you can put up with a ton of work.
Hey currently a computer science and pre med student. I’m majoring in bioinformatics which is under the computer science umbrella and I have a few friends that are purely computer science. Most BS CS programs require you to take Cal 1 and 2 and 2 science classes for 2 semesters. That would take care of your bio requirements and physics requirements. You would just have to take the chemistry classes as major electives, but myself and my friends found it pretty do able. Hopefully that helps!
@@mh7915 I see thanks
@@mh7915 Also how do you manage to do summer internships/personal projects for computer science and also do volunteering/research/shadowing along with preparation for the MCAT as a premed student?
@@metis3097 you really have to utilize your summers. I have not had a single summer off since starting college. I did research volunteering, and shadowing during the school year. Internship during one summer. Another summer I did research. I currently have a break from April 28th to June 6th, so I am studying all day everyday for the MCAT and I will take it June 4th. It is definitely a lot but I was able to manage 400+ hours of research, 100+ volunteers hours, 80+ shadowing hours, a job, being very active in my sorority, lots of leadership, and I’ll be graduating with my master. You got this! Time management is super important and college definitely won’t be a time for you to party, but with lots of hard-work you can do it!
I hate the fact the schools are limited.I udnerstand because of space and too many applicants but im so worried about failing all😅
Wow…. Totally different systems from what I’m used to (Switzerland).
And a surprisingly large percentage gets in… 😂
How it works in Switzerland (in case you are interested 😂)
We are kind of slowly selected thruought school (only those with "higher" highschool diploma are allowed to) => which less than 50% do (and some of these are not like.....for all university studies)
Then we apply online => we choose our favorite uni, and after that 2nd favorite etc. (And we kind of apply to all med schools nationwide at ones and only one at the same time), in summer (approx 2months before the semester starts) we all write an exam. One single exam, there we are tested on things like 3dimensional-understanding, reading complex texts, mathematical understanding, focusing well etc => its not really knowledge based but abilities based).
And that exam is the ONLY thing that determines if you are allowed to study medicine (and among those that get in you get sorted into your unis according to your preference and your score). Grades in HS dont matter, we dont really do extracurricular activities/clubs that are organized by schools and they dont matter.
Approximately 25% get a place (numbers of places and applicants both rise....but applicants faster). => then we can accept or decline (because for some that would mean going across the country while they live close to another uni/have a programm they dont really like)
Once you are in.... you have a 6 year program, the first 2 "kick" the most ppl (40 among 400 repeat the first year....and idk how many actually leave)
Good thing is that the fees are only like less than 1000$ per semester (and you can get government help....not loans), many work, but that mostly bc either they live away from their parents or want extra money for their free time.
What's with the special distinction for Texas medical schools in the numbers cited?
I don't think that I learned anything in the collegiate pre-med program that was of any use at all in med. school. However many courses were valuable in enabling me to ace the MCAT without any additional preparation. In fact, I was running a bio experiment for a 600 level course during MCAT exam breaks.Should that be the purpose of a college education? Of course not. Anyhow, remember that med. school is just the very beginning of your career. It's not difficult but it can be tedious. Overall though it's a great experience. I think that the most difficult aspect of a career in medicine is staying current in your field. Mediocrity is absolutely unacceptable.
Please i need to know what does international students expect if they want to enter med school. My country doesn't have the extracurricular thing that western countries have
Here in the UK, extracurriculars and even work experience aren't requirements. As long as you can write down examples of leadership and similar traits, and talk about these in an interview.
canada is also more competitive because there arent that many med schools in Canada rather than the us.
Ok. "Other countries" = (USA), Canada, and the UK... Hi from a French junior doctor trained in Belgium (European Union)...
The US program is broken, 8 years of med school without the spécialities. Guys if you want to go on med school forget the US and Canada just go to Europe, it's easy, you just need to work af for 2 monthes ant then you'll get in cuz there you just need your baccalaurea with 3.7 gpa at least and pass a competitive exam, then you'll need to work 5 years and you'll be officialy a med guy, then if you want to specialise on somthing specific like brain surgon... it's to 2 to 5 years of studies depending of what you wanna do, and meanwhile you work as a doctor till you finish the program.
God I am glad I am a retired physician. Knowing what I know now I don't know if I would want to go through the process again. Hell, who am I kidding. I'd do it in a heartbeat. Biggest change I would make is this time I would sign that contract to go to Uniformed Services University of Health Sciences instead of balking at the last minute. Life would have been a lot different.
Hi, did you have your loans forgiving by the army?
@ No, I joined the NG while in Med School and then stayed in for a few years. My wife hated the military and gave me the choice... Her or the Army. Stupid me I chose her. Had I signed the contract with USUHS my medical education would have been free. I still don't know what I was thinking when I turned it down. I ended up going to Iowa and practicing there for decades. One guy in my class made Admiral several years ago. I doubt I would have made General rank. I'm not political enough. Still a Full Bird Colonel 's retirement pay is pretty damn good.
@ If I remember correctly ( this was over 40 years ago) it was 2 years for each year of Med School (8 total) and 11/2 for each year of residency. So say you wanted to be a General Surgeon, it would break down like this for time in service. 4 years of Med School= 4 years. Payback service time for Med School= 8 years. General Surgery residency= 5 years. Payback for Surgery residency= 71/2 years. So by the time you have fulfilled your residency contract you will already have 241/2 years of service in. By that time your rank will be at least O-5 (Lt. Col.), more likely Full Bird Col. (O-6). Only 1 step away from that magical Generals star. Do I stay or do I retire? The highest rank you can get in the Medical Corps is Major General (O-8). These are the people that command places like Walter Reed. Keep in mind that once you hit O-6 you might not practice a huge amount of medicine as you have a good chance of being chained to a command desk. Also choose your specialty wisely. The military leans heavily on surgeons of all types, ER docs, Gas passers, radiologists. Less so on Ob/Gyn, FP, Int. Medicine specialties and Pathology. Doesn't mean you won't get the rank, it just may take longer. I once worked with a retied 2 star (major General) that was an Ob/Gyn. Also reenlistment bonus' are usually much more for the "desired" specialties. Is it a good deal? It depends on you and what you want out of your medical career. You most likely won't be paid as much but you will have 0 overhead. You will travel, but it might not be to where you want to go. You can be deployed to a war zone. As one of the "desired" specialties that's almost a guarantee. For me, I already had 6 years enlisted in and would have been the better path. I kick myself every day for not signing that contract Good Luck to you as you pursue your dreams.
@@donaldhall8785 I think there's a good reason why your wife hated the military. Though I am not sure if that reason also applies to the medical military service
@@bmona7550 yes there was. She had had a good friend of hers that was killed in Vietnam.
which of these countries have more of a research based, innovative medical program?
I think that would depend more on individual schools, rather than grouping all the programs in 1 country together.
Is it possible to apply for medical school in the USA without studying in college if I have MCAT¿
Taking data from 2021 grading isnt particularly accurate to what would normally happen since alevel exams didnt even take place that year. They were teacher predicted.
Can you make one so you want to be on Pulm Crit Care?
Is the competitiveness the safe for international student in all countries?
Do specialty programs like IB increase your chances of getting into med schools in Canada?
From my and my friends experience, short answer is no ur stuck in the rat race with everyone else
From INDIA'S perspective
Every year around 15-17 lac ( 1.7 million) pre meds give entrance exam for a limited 2000-3000 seats
The selection rate is 0.18 % and the competition is cut throat
As a person who has cracked the exam myself i can clarify that its one of the hardest exams to crack
just by the sheer number of applicants that want to go into med school
Dumbo, it's more than 90K seats, expected to reach 100K by 2024 session.
Did you prepared under rock.
Is pre medical is good for India students to do in USA
How about for imgs after finishing MBBS or MBChB
How about Australia?
Typically for undergrad a score of 99.5 or higher is required unless you have some other achievements. That means top 5 in a 1000 high school graduates. For post grad ie MD programs it’s a combination of GPA, Gamsat and interview.
Does this also applies to other countries like South Africa
Texas have there own type of programs?
Most Texas schools use TMDSAS for medical school applications.
You think this is competitive? Research on India, we have a selection rate of less than 2%.
Like he mentions in the video MANY pre-meds in the US in college do not end up even applying because they got weeded out. I know more than 20 of my friends who were all pre med coming in to the top university in my state, and I’m the only one standing to even apply, and now matriculate. There just aren’t numbers to quantify that.
@@davidcollins905 yes that is true, the 20% statistic is grossly based on candidates clearing the preliminary selection stages. We need a wider pool to get the full statistics, however still it would not be very accurate.
Canadian med schools actually have ~4% on average, and this is not considering the many pre meds who don't even apply in the first place.
please do a video about Med schools in Philippines 🙏
How do the top US medical schools stack up against Canadian medical schools in terms of competition to get in?
Around the same rate of acceptance
Why do you talk about texas as if it where a separate thing form the US?
you should absolutely check about India ..the competitiveness here is mind boggling
Do one for residencies
In my country 🇵🇰 there are 100k students competing for 3k seats.
similar here in india 1.2 million compete for hardly 20k good seats
@@united4606 I can feel you pain bro
yeah there is way too much competition in pakistan and india.
In India it would be 250000 vs 25k government seats
Why the fc do you have to go to college before med school in north america, why not just start medical teaining earlier and for longer
To give colleges more money I guess? IDK seems sketchy
Either because they do not come out properly prepared from High School, or because Colleges want to take people's money taking advantage of people who don't want to do with their life, by offering to come to have an experience and party while taking classes they should have taken in HS.
Sincerely, the whole "going to College" in the US before going to the University makes absolutely no sense to me, and while Americans have explained it to me a million times, I still have yet to see the point. If you ask me, it is just a money grab.
I’m hoping the fact I’m a sophomore and still not technically even premed (waiting to transfer schools & didn’t realize I wanted to do it until the middle of sophomore) will increase my chance of finishing still a premed 😂
The reason why I'm afraid to take med is that I will stupid with those achievers.
You're not stupid though. If their brains are capable of understanding medicine, so is yours. You can always learn and get smarter.
Was low key hoping for India to be included.
You are 100% WRONG! Your Statistics and analysis are wrong! Using your analytics and data, the results (we derived) are the exact opposite!
All my relatives are trained doctors in USA and Canada, they disagree with you! They could not get into UK Medical school straight out of high school and university l, but was easily got interviews and acceptance from several North America Medical schools in USA and Canada.
Doctors I work with who are trained and now lecturing in medical schools in North America and supervising new graduates UK found these IMG are much more prepared, they are sending their kids to UK school for their medical education!
Can you do australia next time
what about the bmat dr jabbal, u needed just 5 min of proper research
i am an international student and study CAIE. One of my friends recently got accepted into UCLA because she acheived 7 A* for her IGCSE and apparently that was equivalent to a 4.0 GPA. Literally 20 ppl in my grade achieved 7 A*s 15 ppl achieved 8A* and 5 ppl achieved grades above 8A*.....
Cover india also
The rocket surgeon comment though 😆
Australia?? 😢
Make india comparison 1.7 million people vs some 10000 seats