"Cat out of yellow" made me spit out my coffee it was so good. Absolutely loved the strange rating since we could still tell how you felt about the cards through the conversation.
I think that Soul Partition should be considered higher for the following: You can protect your own wincons to be able to cast them later. Being able to protect your breach and recasting it, utilizing it to ramp more dockside triggers or remove problematic pieces. That being stated, this podcast slaps.
24:27 The MTG wiki says that definition 3 of "Topdeck" is "To put a card on top of your library from somewhere else, usually your graveyard or elsewhere in your library.", but I don't think I've ever heard anyone use "topdeck" in any situation other than drawing an out.
You come to a river has been so good to me in pioneer, its not a bad rate for a bounce spell there and being able to push that combat damage through really helps to finish games.
I’m surprised you guys or the comments haven’t said Subtlety?? Though it’s more niche because of targets, it feels like it should considered because of it’s free mode and being a creature, which has only grown more relevant (kind of like your last mentions). Overall, still enjoyed!! Give you guys 6 cherries/2 tomatoes! 😁
My 10 weeks old daughter is already able to raise about 6 of 10 fingers, so I guess that's her rating for your podcast. Gentle reminder, I actively raised the other 4 fingers as well because you guys are your own classification of high-quality mtg content and stand-up. Thank you very much.
Liked the video, but I was hoping it was a discussion about if bounce spells should be played over removal like rapid hybridization, sword to plowshares etc
Yea Tyler,who is otherwise unimpeachable, biffed the calculation here. However, in his defense, math is for blockers and her wad clearly the aggro in that exchange.
Amazing podcast though I'm sad we didn't see Rushing River. It's rather niche but being able to take 2 stax permanents off the table with one spell is incredibly powerful. Also, I think the power of Soul Partition was vastly understated. The synergy with Drannith is nice but increasing the cost to recast by two is potentially backbreaking. Breach for 4, Seedborn for 7, Winota for 6, etc. Lastly, how often do you actually use the mana refund from Snap? I started cutting it since usually I'd use it EOT and do nothing with the mana I get back.
I too want to mention Rushing River. Taking two staxx pieces with one card is very strong. Also, saccing a land can be an upside when you're trying to reach Threshold.
My friend said this (and other of your) podcasts have Always Sunny in Philadelphia vibes. 100% correct and not at all a bad thing. Please, as always, never change.
Your evaluation system is definitely the best, I don’t remember the last time I laughed so hard at a podcast episode. Soul partition deserves more, you're adding a commander tax to any nonland permanent on your opponents board, if you hit a kraum with it it'll just never come back, it's nice with dockside and breach, it's amazing with drannith, just so versatile
It's really funny going back and rewatching some of these old videos and realizing just how warped the format was around Dockside. Every card evaluation was with Dockside in mind. It's wild.
just wanted to say y'all make great content & you're super funny! also please more Tyler on the show! his perspectives and thought processes are fantastic to listen to and also he's cute af
Some others I love are Hurkyl's Recall, Capsize, Aetherize, Paradoxical Outcome, Curfew, and Filter Out. Most are pretty niche, but I think Recall and Filter Out are the best.
I was wondering about Brazen B, I was thinking where it could fit in Yuriko, but I wasn't sure if it was worth cutting Chain of Vapor, Cyc Rift or Submerge. On the plus it's a re-usable bounce spell that can give me an evasive creature for Ninjutsu, on the downside it can't target my own things and it costs 2 for a pretty vanilla bounce spell.
@@janMelantu That's fair, I just wasn't sure the disperse half justified the 3/1 half. Do you think it's better than chain of vapor in this case or should I bite the bullet and just run another bounce spell?l
I think a good thing you can include next time when you're rating cards is that at the end of the video you can give us a snap shot of all the cards with their respective ratings so that we can take it all in at once.
When Cam made that tuck into bed analogy I thought to myself, "Yeah! That's right!" The boys really trampled him. Cam, you're right - you are not tucked in when you are lying on top of the bed, just like a card is not tucked in when it's on top of the deck.
Video #2 of requesting a food chain video detailing food chain combos, the commanders, its place in the meta, and why first sliver food chain is bad compared to other food chain deck
Kinda surprised you guys didn't mention rushing river. It was spicy tech in ukkima food chain for awhile as a way of removing 2 syax pieces. I know it's seen other fringe play too.
I don't like bounce very much, but I think I need to get Chain in my mono-Blue deck for sure, that's some sick value. I think my best bounce effect in that deck is Capsize, which is mostly an infinite mana outlet. In my cEDH deck I technically still have Clutch of the Undercity in there as a Transmute spell, but I'm not going to lie, I actually like having a 3 mana life loss spell at instant speed that can also tutor up a win con (that I'm hopefully ready for), it's hilarious to punish a greedy Naus that's about to win.
Capsize wasn't mentioned - infinite mana with dockside, provided opponents have enough artifacts on field, and from there you can bounce all your opponents permanents, even lands.
I like playing Remand and Unsubstantiate a lot. There's something about timing these to bounce their game winning play and force them to spend their Mana on it again. Kind of like time walking them at instant speed for the same mana. It applies more in 1v1 for tempo, I guess. I'd probably rate Venser higher for that reason. It might be one of those cards that I just like. And it isn't even really playable competitively.
Just think about the tempo of it. They cast their primary spell, Unsubstantiate it, they pass. (Basically time walked). You take your turn and pass. They recast their spell, you hard counter it.
All I kept thinking about was "WHAT DO THE NUMBERS MEAN" from cod, and honestly Ive been asking the same question in the same tone. On the more important note I'd rate this 7 bologna's, thank you.
We are testing a new one called machine over matter in urza poly kracken and it’s been pretty good, we can cast it for 1 like vapor if we control a artifact creature which is the construct usually, I may go back to vapor but it’s sitting nicely in kinnan right now lol
If I had a dollar for every time a friend in my playgroup pulled the “I’m gonna make you sac a land or we lose” chain of vapor move. It’s a simultaneously genius and ultimate scum lord play every time
I'd say Submerge and Commit // Memory are bounce spells. They're kind of closer to tuck spells but they really only see play in Yuriko and some blue decks. I wanna see what the best tuck spells are in cEDH. They used to be huge when you could tuck commanders but I wonder if any still see play.
Future Ways to Rank Things: How much *should* this card cost assuming no card could cost more than $XX? If Weevil Underwood threw this overboard, how upset would you be? How long before you reach acceptance in the five stages of grief would it be when it's cut from your deck? How many minutes could you fill trying to convince someone the card should be banned before they realized you're full of it? How many units of Helen is the card (look it up)? How many Fonzies is it (look it up)? How often do you ask yourself why the card is in your deck?
IMHO. (and this is pretty close to rank order from video) Best to worst. 1. Otawara (modal, uncounterable works under Grand abolisher effects) 2. March of Swirling (deals with every creature you need when it's time to win often cheaper than...) 3. Cyc Rift (overload) 4. Chain of Vapor (politics, can bounce your own mana vault/dockside + spot remove opponent's permanent etc.) Note: I think you rarely need to go past 4 colors let alone 5 (latter maybe if you're in 1-2 colors) 5. Alchemists (discounted when bouncing your own) 6. Winds of Rebuke (corner cases can hold over a breach loop/nerf a top deck tutor) 7. Snap ("Free" only creatures tho) 8. Submerge ("free" IF an opponent is on green or you're on Yavimayah, in which case better than snap but worse in a vacuum) 9. Stern dismissal OR Soul partition (hot take but the exile and 2 mana tax matters) 10 Geistwave #10 is best compared directly to Alchemists retrieval and an interesting case for why in a vacuum +1 mana > than +1 Card. If bouncing your own [Dockside] you'd prob rather have the mana esp if you just filled your hand. Given there might be corner cases where you're recovering after a missed win, and only have a couple cards in hand in which case you're already netting big mana from dockside and the card is valuable. sorry I'm so late to the party here
Is filter out a playable bounce spell? Bounce all my rocks and replay them as a ritual in blue, at the same time bounce all my opponents non-creature stax pieces and rocks, pass through combat to get rid of their floated mana? I go back and forth between alchemists retreival and geistwave as my preferred 4th bounce spell in dockside based decks. I like retreival in t&k but i play geistwave in kess since recasting it from the yard is card draw on top of a ritual, though i've just realised according to Cams rules i play 5 in Kess since i have march as well.
hey as someone that is new to magic and watching some CEDH if you did a vid of like combos and what combos to look out for i thank that will be a good vid
You guys talked about the colossal skyturtle that is an uncounterable bounce spell or an uncounterable regrowth effect? I’ve been using it and it does great in lists that like uncounterable bounce spells.
I think chain of vapor is just trash, I am always underwhelmed by the card every time I've ever played it It's a jack of all trades that does nothing well. It being a ritual the problem is that it requires a significant board state to do so and you have to win the turn you do it otherwise you've blown up your lands for nothing. It being a protection spell is that there are other cards that do a better job, counterspells, veil of summer, cards that give hexproof things like that and you also do not need to recast the thing. It being board removal is that they can also remove your stuff and you're hoping that your opponents get rid of eachother's stuff and not your stuff. It being used for a combo win is that they can bounce your cards that you would have used to win the game. The card is just frankly bad the way I see it. I just don't play with the card anymore and I run Urza cEDH. So unless you can give me a good reason outside of "well it's a versatile card that does everything badly" I'm not going to run it ever.
You can return Underworld Breach with Winds of Rebuke if you didn't do everything you wanted too Not that you couldn't with other bounce spells, but this could be the decisive pro for putting them together in a deck
I was heartbroken that you didn't catch your mistake that Into the Roil and Blink of an Eye can bounce anything. Not sure that it would have affected your rating that much, but as a primarily UB player, those cards frequently come to my mind a lot more than most of the others you mentioned. I mean, obviously top tier bounce is top tier bounce, but bouncing any nonland for 2 is solid, and that potential tempo to replace itself is just icing. But, to be fair I admittedly play more at high power then actual cedh, so maybe my evaluation is way off the mark. I would have liked them to have received at least a 2 though lol. Fun video, thanks for all you guys do
It’s one thing to use priority as a strategy in cEDH to get a counter out of another player’s hand. One thing I’m not alright with is mana bullying. If you chain my permanent and expect me to sack a land to take care of the win on board why would I do that? To not lose? If I’m losing to you chaining my permanent and the stone rain, there is no point in me continuing. I’ll just go to next game. I think you guys are to set on winning(very low % too) that you sacrifice the integrity of the game. By me passing priority or or letting the chain resolve it sets a precedent.
You never got to explaining why bounce spells are good in cEDH and better in cEDH specifically than they are in other formats. 😅 Got caught up talking about what is a bounce spell. 😅😂😂 Fun episode, but I went back thinking 'wait, did they explain why bounce spells are good?'
Would love to see a tier list instead of rating with all cards visualised before the podcast starts just to be able to better compare them to each other. Also, sidisi's faithful's main purpose is getting Thassa back to hand after being searched with Hulk.
Question: Have we reached a point of such Mana abundance in cEDH that the card disadvantage of discarding for free counters seems worse than holding Mana open for 1 Mana counters?
Casual player here! I watch a lot of cEDH, but I was curious how good Seal of Removal is? It seems to me like a one blue mana stax piece in a way, but I don’t see it played much. Would love to hear other thoughts!
4.5 out of 5 vs 7 out of 8.. pretty sure 4.5 is higher. I missed the math Tyler did and don’t exactly know how he got where he got but I’m pretty experienced in poker and I can tell that 4.5 is obv 90% and I know 7 out of 8 is…. Yeah, not sure what but it is, well, not 90%. 4.5 of 5 is higher pretty surely Hey I may have missed it and am gonna listen again but I didn’t hear you all go thru the bounce spells in order (I was rushing to work so maybe I just didn’t hear it). If you didn’t run them down in order at the end maybe give us a short or tack it onto the next video. This was very entertaining but I really like when you all do the kinds tier list so the info is somewhat actionable. Just my two cents. I rate this video seventeen quarks out of 4 Q-bits. Outstanding 👍
I'd give this podcast four stop signs out of traffic circles
Sounds like a nice and safe intersection, fantastic
Three thucks out of four bounces
Yeah…those circles are in New Jersey…
@@asn101the intersection is in California. Good luck 😂
I CACKLED during this episode so many times 😂😂😂
I love you folks ❤️
"Cat out of yellow" made me spit out my coffee it was so good. Absolutely loved the strange rating since we could still tell how you felt about the cards through the conversation.
I think that Soul Partition should be considered higher for the following:
You can protect your own wincons to be able to cast them later.
Being able to protect your breach and recasting it, utilizing it to ramp more dockside triggers or remove problematic pieces.
That being stated, this podcast slaps.
Yes, that is a great point. Thank you!!!
My brother in christ, you just described a bounce spell. This is just that but it makes your spell cost more, so it’s just a lower bounce spell
My playgroup knows me for a play of resetting my remora on 3 or 4 to a remora on 0 with a soul partition.
@@jmarksthespot makes your spell cost the same, your opponents cost more
@@jmarksthespot I’m well aware I did, I was helping explain why it should be considered higher up on their ranking…
"That's what's happening: they're bad on purpose."
Genius! You guys are literally the best!
"I'm prepared to give March a 3.5 out of 5" like you guys are negotiating a trade deal! Lol
I'd say Moonsnare Prototype is worth a mention. It's the other channel bounce effect that's also sort of a springleaf drum.
Yeah, I was expecting to see this mentioned.
24:27 The MTG wiki says that definition 3 of "Topdeck" is "To put a card on top of your library from somewhere else, usually your graveyard or elsewhere in your library.", but I don't think I've ever heard anyone use "topdeck" in any situation other than drawing an out.
You come to a river has been so good to me in pioneer, its not a bad rate for a bounce spell there and being able to push that combat damage through really helps to finish games.
Yalls teasing with the shorts is WORKING
I’m surprised you guys or the comments haven’t said Subtlety?? Though it’s more niche because of targets, it feels like it should considered because of it’s free mode and being a creature, which has only grown more relevant (kind of like your last mentions). Overall, still enjoyed!! Give you guys 6 cherries/2 tomatoes! 😁
Having Tyler here made this video 10.1 out of 10
My 10 weeks old daughter is already able to raise about 6 of 10 fingers, so I guess that's her rating for your podcast.
Gentle reminder, I actively raised the other 4 fingers as well because you guys are your own classification of high-quality mtg content and stand-up.
Thank you very much.
Love me some Void Snare, as well. Sorcery is cursed, but it's solid for a storm deck that just needs to get rid of a stax piece before trying a win.
Good Snare! another good one!
Liked the video, but I was hoping it was a discussion about if bounce spells should be played over removal like rapid hybridization, sword to plowshares etc
Technically the 4.5 outta 5 is higher. Translated to % 4.5 is 90% vs 7/8 is put to 87.5%
That is because Tyler mismultiplied 4.5 times 8. He came to 34 but it is 36.
Yea Tyler,who is otherwise unimpeachable, biffed the calculation here. However, in his defense, math is for blockers and her wad clearly the aggro in that exchange.
I love y’all sm🙏 Always bring a smile to my face with the vibes
I'm sorry, but 69/420 might be funniest comment yet on this channel....Well played, Tyler, well played.
Amazing podcast though I'm sad we didn't see Rushing River. It's rather niche but being able to take 2 stax permanents off the table with one spell is incredibly powerful.
Also, I think the power of Soul Partition was vastly understated. The synergy with Drannith is nice but increasing the cost to recast by two is potentially backbreaking. Breach for 4, Seedborn for 7, Winota for 6, etc.
Lastly, how often do you actually use the mana refund from Snap? I started cutting it since usually I'd use it EOT and do nothing with the mana I get back.
I too want to mention Rushing River. Taking two staxx pieces with one card is very strong. Also, saccing a land can be an upside when you're trying to reach Threshold.
I WAS ALSO THINKING OF MUSIC THEORY WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT RULES AND BREAKING THEM!
I love this channel. Found guys a few weeks ago. Thanks for the content
I think for the next podcast you should rate things by how much you cackle evilly on the inside (or outside) when you cast the spell.
Poor Tyler. I feel you on this.
My friend said this (and other of your) podcasts have Always Sunny in Philadelphia vibes. 100% correct and not at all a bad thing. Please, as always, never change.
I think you all were spot on with all your ratings for all the cards. I give this episode Simian Spirit Guide out of red
Your evaluation system is definitely the best, I don’t remember the last time I laughed so hard at a podcast episode. Soul partition deserves more, you're adding a commander tax to any nonland permanent on your opponents board, if you hit a kraum with it it'll just never come back, it's nice with dockside and breach, it's amazing with drannith, just so versatile
That intro went harder than it needed to
"Why are you guys like this, Do you Have too"
Man i just love you guys 🤣🤣
The subtle difference between “rate” and “rank” 😂. Love the content!
You guys rock - thank you for the dedicated content!
With all your arguing and yelling, I honestly feel asleep during my first watch. I guess it reminded me of home. Thanks, yall. 😅
Thank you for your content, love it.
It's really funny going back and rewatching some of these old videos and realizing just how warped the format was around Dockside. Every card evaluation was with Dockside in mind. It's wild.
just wanted to say y'all make great content & you're super funny! also please more Tyler on the show! his perspectives and thought processes are fantastic to listen to and also he's cute af
Best rating system ever!! Love this episode! The dynamic of u guys is amazing!! 😂
Some others I love are Hurkyl's Recall, Capsize, Aetherize, Paradoxical Outcome, Curfew, and Filter Out. Most are pretty niche, but I think Recall and Filter Out are the best.
I was wondering about Brazen B, I was thinking where it could fit in Yuriko, but I wasn't sure if it was worth cutting Chain of Vapor, Cyc Rift or Submerge. On the plus it's a re-usable bounce spell that can give me an evasive creature for Ninjutsu, on the downside it can't target my own things and it costs 2 for a pretty vanilla bounce spell.
It hits any nonland permanent an opponent controls. That’s pretty good for 2 mana, especially when it comes stapled to a flash flier.
@@janMelantu That's fair, I just wasn't sure the disperse half justified the 3/1 half. Do you think it's better than chain of vapor in this case or should I bite the bullet and just run another bounce spell?l
I think a good thing you can include next time when you're rating cards is that at the end of the video you can give us a snap shot of all the cards with their respective ratings so that we can take it all in at once.
Left a comment on the previous video 'sad that you've missed Jhoira' and now they talk about Jhoira, great
“it’s okay. people know” 36:56
me, actively reading what sidisi’s faithful does because i, in fact, do not know
When Cam made that tuck into bed analogy I thought to myself, "Yeah! That's right!" The boys really trampled him. Cam, you're right - you are not tucked in when you are lying on top of the bed, just like a card is not tucked in when it's on top of the deck.
"Spin" means send to top of library! I've also heard gust in MTG, spin is common in other card games.
I LOVE this episode. I am laughing so much. Thank you!
*New sentence unlocked*:
"A bed is a four card deck,.. great..."
Lmfao!
Tyler’s reaction at 34:34 is me when I find the rolls at Golden Corral
Love the doggo in the back!
“How would you rate this rating system?” Absolutely sent me
Please do a podcast rating all of your previous rating methods
best one yet. pure comedy. i love it.
Moon Snare Prototype.
Tyler, you run 5 bounce spells.
Video #2 of requesting a food chain video detailing food chain combos, the commanders, its place in the meta, and why first sliver food chain is bad compared to other food chain deck
What a hilarious episode 😂
Keep it up winners!
Kinda surprised you guys didn't mention rushing river. It was spicy tech in ukkima food chain for awhile as a way of removing 2 syax pieces. I know it's seen other fringe play too.
cameron bustin out the eminem bar tender meme "You only get one shot!"
Holy hell, I immediately got Cam's reference to Smack that by Akon and Eminem. Awesome song.
I would really like to give you some more.
Was super sick to see Tyler on the sculpty bois podcast
I don't like bounce very much, but I think I need to get Chain in my mono-Blue deck for sure, that's some sick value. I think my best bounce effect in that deck is Capsize, which is mostly an infinite mana outlet.
In my cEDH deck I technically still have Clutch of the Undercity in there as a Transmute spell, but I'm not going to lie, I actually like having a 3 mana life loss spell at instant speed that can also tutor up a win con (that I'm hopefully ready for), it's hilarious to punish a greedy Naus that's about to win.
Capsize wasn't mentioned - infinite mana with dockside, provided opponents have enough artifacts on field, and from there you can bounce all your opponents permanents, even lands.
Moonsnare Prototype is also a good one, it kind of mixes Otawara with Suberge.
I am really curious about that Emry deck back there. 👀
I like playing Remand and Unsubstantiate a lot. There's something about timing these to bounce their game winning play and force them to spend their Mana on it again. Kind of like time walking them at instant speed for the same mana. It applies more in 1v1 for tempo, I guess. I'd probably rate Venser higher for that reason. It might be one of those cards that I just like. And it isn't even really playable competitively.
Just think about the tempo of it. They cast their primary spell, Unsubstantiate it, they pass. (Basically time walked). You take your turn and pass. They recast their spell, you hard counter it.
These types of spells can basically just timewalk someone.
All I kept thinking about was "WHAT DO THE NUMBERS MEAN" from cod, and honestly Ive been asking the same question in the same tone. On the more important note I'd rate this 7 bologna's, thank you.
We are testing a new one called machine over matter in urza poly kracken and it’s been pretty good, we can cast it for 1 like vapor if we control a artifact creature which is the construct usually, I may go back to vapor but it’s sitting nicely in kinnan right now lol
As someone who’s as good with numbers as cam is with pronunciation, I think we really need an animal and color rating system.
That one was very interesting ! I see Tyler has a Emry deck will he play it on video ?
If I had a dollar for every time a friend in my playgroup pulled the “I’m gonna make you sac a land or we lose” chain of vapor move. It’s a simultaneously genius and ultimate scum lord play every time
"Boomerang came around..." anyone??
I'd say Submerge and Commit // Memory are bounce spells. They're kind of closer to tuck spells but they really only see play in Yuriko and some blue decks. I wanna see what the best tuck spells are in cEDH. They used to be huge when you could tuck commanders but I wonder if any still see play.
Upset that y’all didn’t have “Bounce” by Lil Bow Wow playing in the background for the ultimate meme-age
Future Ways to Rank Things:
How much *should* this card cost assuming no card could cost more than $XX?
If Weevil Underwood threw this overboard, how upset would you be?
How long before you reach acceptance in the five stages of grief would it be when it's cut from your deck?
How many minutes could you fill trying to convince someone the card should be banned before they realized you're full of it?
How many units of Helen is the card (look it up)?
How many Fonzies is it (look it up)?
How often do you ask yourself why the card is in your deck?
Kinda wild that we went full punk on rankings,something literally everyone watches and takes for fact
“A whole podcast about bouncespells? What is it 5 minutes”
Sits and enjoys 45 minutes of content
A scale of 0-5 I like the best, even using fractions within the scale is helpful.
Please rate the tutors next.
I also like echoing truth against token decks like Najeela.
IMHO. (and this is pretty close to rank order from video) Best to worst.
1. Otawara (modal, uncounterable works under Grand abolisher effects)
2. March of Swirling (deals with every creature you need when it's time to win often cheaper than...)
3. Cyc Rift (overload)
4. Chain of Vapor (politics, can bounce your own mana vault/dockside + spot remove opponent's permanent etc.)
Note: I think you rarely need to go past 4 colors let alone 5 (latter maybe if you're in 1-2 colors)
5. Alchemists (discounted when bouncing your own)
6. Winds of Rebuke (corner cases can hold over a breach loop/nerf a top deck tutor)
7. Snap ("Free" only creatures tho)
8. Submerge ("free" IF an opponent is on green or you're on Yavimayah, in which case better than snap but worse in a vacuum)
9. Stern dismissal OR Soul partition (hot take but the exile and 2 mana tax matters)
10 Geistwave
#10 is best compared directly to Alchemists retrieval and an interesting case for why in a vacuum +1 mana > than +1 Card. If bouncing your own [Dockside] you'd prob rather have the mana esp if you just filled your hand. Given there might be corner cases where you're recovering after a missed win, and only have a couple cards in hand in which case you're already netting big mana from dockside and the card is valuable.
sorry I'm so late to the party here
A tier list to look at would be nice to see rather than remembering how many oranges out of bananas a card was
Is filter out a playable bounce spell? Bounce all my rocks and replay them as a ritual in blue, at the same time bounce all my opponents non-creature stax pieces and rocks, pass through combat to get rid of their floated mana?
I go back and forth between alchemists retreival and geistwave as my preferred 4th bounce spell in dockside based decks. I like retreival in t&k but i play geistwave in kess since recasting it from the yard is card draw on top of a ritual, though i've just realised according to Cams rules i play 5 in Kess since i have march as well.
hey as someone that is new to magic and watching some CEDH if you did a vid of like combos and what combos to look out for i thank that will be a good vid
You guys talked about the colossal skyturtle that is an uncounterable bounce spell or an uncounterable regrowth effect? I’ve been using it and it does great in lists that like uncounterable bounce spells.
Btw 4.5/5 is 36/40 not 34/40, so cam rated chain of vapor higher
Something for the upside of that creature that bounces. when you cast it people don't know what you're bouncing. so it can get through some counters
Learn the rules
Follow the rules
Break the rules
Make the rules
Be the rules.
do best removal spells. maybe a top five for each single color removals then duel colors and possibly 3 color removal spells in cedh?
I think chain of vapor is just trash, I am always underwhelmed by the card every time I've ever played it
It's a jack of all trades that does nothing well.
It being a ritual the problem is that it requires a significant board state to do so and you have to win the turn you do it otherwise you've blown up your lands for nothing.
It being a protection spell is that there are other cards that do a better job, counterspells, veil of summer, cards that give hexproof things like that and you also do not need to recast the thing.
It being board removal is that they can also remove your stuff and you're hoping that your opponents get rid of eachother's stuff and not your stuff.
It being used for a combo win is that they can bounce your cards that you would have used to win the game.
The card is just frankly bad the way I see it.
I just don't play with the card anymore and I run Urza cEDH.
So unless you can give me a good reason outside of "well it's a versatile card that does everything badly" I'm not going to run it ever.
Yeah i play urza cedh and I consider playing banishing knack instead at least or unsubstantiate
You can return Underworld Breach with Winds of Rebuke if you didn't do everything you wanted too
Not that you couldn't with other bounce spells, but this could be the decisive pro for putting them together in a deck
This podcast gets 3 Blue Eyes outta 3 cause I ripped the 4th one 😂Grandpa Yugi 😂
When they say "boys will be boys", this podcast is what they're talking about.
Ya'all should do a play to win gameplay on cPDH!
And repeal? It can bounce your rock and give you a card back, usually used as a ritual but it can be a good removal too!
"Why are you guys like this?" - Tyler 2023
Did this cover Filter Out? I think I missed it but I'm too lazy to flick through and find it
I was heartbroken that you didn't catch your mistake that Into the Roil and Blink of an Eye can bounce anything. Not sure that it would have affected your rating that much, but as a primarily UB player, those cards frequently come to my mind a lot more than most of the others you mentioned. I mean, obviously top tier bounce is top tier bounce, but bouncing any nonland for 2 is solid, and that potential tempo to replace itself is just icing. But, to be fair I admittedly play more at high power then actual cedh, so maybe my evaluation is way off the mark. I would have liked them to have received at least a 2 though lol. Fun video, thanks for all you guys do
It occurs to me that I should modify my comment to be "2 out of 5" 😋
It’s one thing to use priority as a strategy in cEDH to get a counter out of another player’s hand. One thing I’m not alright with is mana bullying. If you chain my permanent and expect me to sack a land to take care of the win on board why would I do that? To not lose? If I’m losing to you chaining my permanent and the stone rain, there is no point in me continuing. I’ll just go to next game.
I think you guys are to set on winning(very low % too) that you sacrifice the integrity of the game. By me passing priority or or letting the chain resolve it sets a precedent.
You never got to explaining why bounce spells are good in cEDH and better in cEDH specifically than they are in other formats. 😅
Got caught up talking about what is a bounce spell. 😅😂😂 Fun episode, but I went back thinking 'wait, did they explain why bounce spells are good?'
What about Colossal Skyturtle? I'm running it as a 2nd Otawara or another Regrowth effect in my Edric, it's been doing work.
Fate seal? Is rhat the term yall were looking for with submerge? Ive only seen the term used with jace the mind sculptor but
Would love to see a tier list instead of rating with all cards visualised before the podcast starts just to be able to better compare them to each other.
Also, sidisi's faithful's main purpose is getting Thassa back to hand after being searched with Hulk.
Question: Have we reached a point of such Mana abundance in cEDH that the card disadvantage of discarding for free counters seems worse than holding Mana open for 1 Mana counters?
I think the term you are looking for for top of library is fate seal? Maybe idk though
Best one so far imo
Casual player here! I watch a lot of cEDH, but I was curious how good Seal of Removal is? It seems to me like a one blue mana stax piece in a way, but I don’t see it played much. Would love to hear other thoughts!
I'd say also playable in Muldrotha
You spin back to the deck 😊
My favorite part of this podcast was the cat out of yellow rating
4.5 out of 5 vs 7 out of 8.. pretty sure 4.5 is higher. I missed the math Tyler did and don’t exactly know how he got where he got but I’m pretty experienced in poker and I can tell that 4.5 is obv 90% and I know 7 out of 8 is…. Yeah, not sure what but it is, well, not 90%.
4.5 of 5 is higher pretty surely
Hey I may have missed it and am gonna listen again but I didn’t hear you all go thru the bounce spells in order (I was rushing to work so maybe I just didn’t hear it). If you didn’t run them down in order at the end maybe give us a short or tack it onto the next video. This was very entertaining but I really like when you all do the kinds tier list so the info is somewhat actionable.
Just my two cents.
I rate this video seventeen quarks out of 4 Q-bits.
Outstanding 👍