Bob Sargeant made an album 'First Starring Role ' with Mick Ronson, Dennis Mackay Co producing Jolly good it is too. I bought it for 49p back in the mists of time.
I just bought this cart and I'm pretty blown away with what I'm hearing even though it's still closed off. Already getting really good instrument separation, very good depth, absolutely an expansive soundstage. What I wasn't prepared for was how the instruments and performers scaled up in size. Solo piano music gave me an impression of being 1:1, and it sounded much more convincing that it was right in the room, in a very good way. Everything seemed naturally closer. Having Magnepans, classical music took on a much grander and welcome size increase. It really does classical music justice. Audio-Technica was kind enough to show a frequency sweep, and let me tell you, this voicing is how it's done :) The mid's and upper mid's are back in the soundstage where they belong. With the increase in perceived scale of the performers and instruments, this could have gone south real fast with the typical mid forward voicing that can get in your face. This cart is so well done that when it opens up, it'll be pretty ridiculous :) in a great way. It just sounds more natural overall. Oh plus we/I keep separating our speakers in search of this soundstage width, and we shoot ourselves in the foot by having the speakers not couple with one another and loose some coherence with one another. Very special product for the money.
A lovely series of carts and great value. I too had the old AT32E back in the 80s and within the past 10 years the original 33ptg and now own a ptg/2 in my collection. I prefer the micro line versions to the Shibata - better inner groove tracing and last longer, usually about £100 cheaper too than the Sa.
I have a Hana SL mc cart in my Clearaudio Performance SE, which I like very much. So I went running to Google to see if it had a Boron cantilever. Now I have cantilever envy..
Good stuff guys. I think Audio-Technica must be the best VFM on the market, frankly. I have the AT33PTG/II, a photo of which you used at the start of this video 😄
One mine from my collection I run mine "Nude",looks great sounds slightly better a bit more nimble in it`s SQ. Thank you for this riff you guys definitely need to do MORE carts on here(some of my best viewing on youtube for hifi)and Mike you`re absolutely correct Sir,it`s a 10/10 - something tells me that David knows this but is reluctant to say so!
Hi guys, love the show. I didn't know this cart and I recently bought it, after hearing about it here plus reading all the reviews I could find. This cart is absolutely amazing, a proper performer!! Thanks
That was a great riff, thanks! I find myself looking for excuses to get this cart but I already have an AT Art9. Speaking of which: I never had the opportunity to compare it to the higher end competition but some people who did rated it very highly against rather more exotic cartridges. It may just be the same very high value for money proposition as the 33Sa but genuinely high-end, whatever that may mean.
Great to see an mc review. I had an OC9 MLii a few years back and found it thin, lifeless and flat. Last year I purchased a new OC9 XSL. Wow!, it is a revelation. Nothing like the older ML. This thing has it all. Dynamics, speed, detail, 3d, lovely top end, mids and bass, etc. Similar price to 33 sh.
Thanks guys, always enjoy your riffs. I still have an OC7 in my old Roksan Xerxes, so Id love to hear this cartridge, but sadly I never play vynal anymore. Im always interested in whatever 80s pap youve been playing too... I liked haircut 100 😊
It’s a good looking cart as well! How’s about a Riff from your local;. Pommie pubs really are something special. Probably the only ting I miss about well London anyways😄
Fellas, thank you so much for this lovely review of the AT cartridge! Today I am especially pleased because you mentioned the A.N.T. phono preamp but also because I feel that Mr. Alex Nikitin does not get the attention he deserves. He’s just a lovely chap to deal with and not many people know this, but he is world authority on magnetic head technology and tape measurements. I don’t know if he still makes calibration tapes for cassette decks but he is a wealth of knowledge. That being said, I’d hardly call 600 quid cheap! 😊 I’ve no doubt the AT is a wonderful cartridge but I feel like you likely need to spend at least another grand or more for a decent deck and so, it quickly becomes very expensive, prohibitively so for many people. All the best, gents! Cheers!
Thanks, and yes, Alex Nikitin is quite a character. His Kora 3T SE is to my ears still one of the best solid-state phono stages that I've heard. The AT-33Sa is cheap for a moving coil. Considering that you can spend £10,000 on one, then £600 is definitely on the highly affordable end of the spectrum. All the same, in absolute terms, £600 for a cartridge is not cheap - so it's all relative, I guess. Our point was that in 'sound per pound' terms, it's superb for a moving coil.
@@MrVinylista Thank you for replying, I feel privileged! May I say, I’ve read many of your reviews and like I said in an older comment, I enjoy your YT channel immensely. Not that I agree with everything you say, but it’s just that the atmosphere you’ve created in that room is so cheerful and relaxed and precisely what HIFI, like all great things in life, should be about - sharing the experience with the people you love. Absolutely, the perception of “value” is relative and it’s up to the customer to “draw the line” on what is worth the money and what is not. That being said, your point is well taken and I especially appreciate you taking the time to compare the -33SA to the more known -OC9 model. I learned something new there. As for Mr. Nikitin’s preamp, even though I am not surprised you like it, I must say, that is high praise indeed. Alex, if you’re reading this - Cheers mate! All the best to you and your partner-in-crime ;) Cheers - Antun
The biggest problem is the Delos. £840 on a trade in for like basis. Once you start getting into the Lyra camp the trade in details keep you coming back.
I have met Ken ishiwata also in Eindhoven and his set sound amazing. What I remember was a recording from the 50’s an woman’s voice so clear and real i never forget that.
Now listen chaps, glad you are giving us further stuff on cartridges. However the big news is that David's reference turntable seems to have a detachable head shell. Has he thereby rescued us Technics 1200G owners from outer darkness? I heard another You Tube channel describe the debate about the pros and cons of detachable head shells as a mere food fight. It is good news if we are lightening up about this issue, with detachable head shell use no longer resulting in hi fi cancellation.
I personally think the objection to detachable headshells is overstated. I think on cost-no-object, no compromise tonearms, then detachable headshells are a no-go. But for most applications they make less of a difference than other aspects of the tonearm design, such as the material used for the armtube and/or its damping, or of course its bearing design. The SME 309 teaches us that you can make a great sounding arm with a detachable headshell. The worst aspect of the original SL-1200 mkII was sadly the pisspoor tonearm. It really isn't anywhere near as good as the motor unit, and Technics never pretended otherwise. Using an ADC magnesium headshell will help, along with high quality headshell wires (Audio-Technica 6108 at the bare minimum). I once had an SME V in my SL-1200 mkII and it absolutely murdered the stock Technics arm - like the difference between AM and FM radio - but there were some flaws from the deck apparent still. The newer SL-1200G is much better, but still a long way away from where it needs to be. The truth is that if you have a top-quality arm in the new SL-1200G, then you have one of the best turntables in the world. That's quite a thing to say! The stock arm still holds it back a lot, but is much less objectionable than earlier stock arms. I'd go for a Rega RB300-series arm at the bare minimum, with an Origin Live arm plate. However, if you're serious about surgery, then I'd wait for the SL-1200G's replacement - coming later this year - and mod that, as the new deck is getting a(n even) better motor!
Hi Guys, love the reviews was just wondering how this compares with the PTG/2 and the Rega Ania pro? Incidentally a well known Technics modding compant uses the 33EV as their standard cartridge calling it a poor mans Koetsu...
Wow, you two are describing my cartridge/table journey; Karma, Troika( had the Garrott Bros rebuild it), Supex SD-900 Super that I still own and works, a Supex SD-330 that I think needs the leads repaired(very delicate), Dynavector Ruby, 17D Karat, Nagaoka MP-200 (new in box). I owned some more exotic Grado's from the eighties; Model 2, and Model 3, that came in these cool heavy aluminum tubes rather than cardboard. Right now I have Dynavector 20 X2 and XX-2 Mk II and I'm finding that the XX2 in my opinion is not as good as the 20X2 because (my thinking) the aluminum cantilevered 20X2 has a stylus pressed into the cantilever where the XX2 has to have the tip glued in(Boron), adding more mass to the tip. Of course, I could be wrong. Haven't tried a Hana but I think Audio Technica cartridges are a better investment than say the Ortrophon Red, Blue, Bronze, Black(not impressed at all). I thought an Audio Technica AT-VM95ML at $170.00 was better in every respect than an Ort Black. I want to try a better MC from AT but those Alnico Magnet cart., Dyna 20X2 and Hana ML just do things right. They're just soooo quiet as they do their thing.
Sounds like a good cartridge. I'm too late for vinyl,even though I'll openly admit that a finely tuned vinyl rig has a certain magic to it. Unless one goes exclusively to record fairs,obtaining new LPs is cost prohibitive and uses up alot of space. As someone who doesn't necessarily shop for the most mainstream artists,availability is more limited on vinyl too.Thanks as always.
Roxys Avalon album sounded great, and all the copies were pressed on 'Teldec' vinyl which was a high quality vinyl, costing an additional 50p per LP for the privilege at a time where that was 10% of the purchase cost.
Interesting! The AT 33 range has always been good but there are a lot of other options out there in and about the same price point . The Hana SL and ML are very good And compete easily ! It’s all a matter of taste and what works with your tonearm and table
Sadly the Hana MCs don't have the crystal-clear midband of the AT, or the treble delicacy for that matter. But it is, as you say, very much a matter of personal taste. Certainly the AT is a less 'emotional' sounding design.
Another great Riff chaps! Like you Mike, I'm extremely fond of the Linn Karma, and had mine rebuilt by Goldring. The transformation in sound quality was nothing short of staggering. However, if it does ever give up the ghost (I'm not sure how many times it could be rebuilt?), this Audio Technica AT 33-SA looks like it could be a possible contender as a replacement? I reckon you have similar ears to me Mike, with your LP12/Exposure IV set up (although I'm a NAIM man myself) and I'm a little surprised you maybe didn't get on with the AT-OC9, as coupled with an ARO/LP12 going into your Exposure set up seems like a pretty well balanced combination to take the edge off of the OC9? I know where you're coming from though about the OC9 (we used to sell them and Exposure). We never really liked the OC9 with a Roksan Xerxes for example, but with an LP12 it's a viable second choice - for me anyway - to the Karma. But this AT 33SE looks like a bit of a bargain. IMHO, Audio Technica consistently made a great range of excellent value for money cartridges. Indeed as a fifteen year old, my first upgrade was to fit an AT-95E to my Systemdek IIx. For £18 it was an absolute steal. And later I thoroughly enjoyed the AT-F5 in my Ittok/LP12, Myst TMA3 and Epos 14s. I enjoy the Audio Technica 'sound' that is always energetic, engaging and involving, if partnered with a not-too-bright system further down the chain. Thanks again for a great Riff guys, although I'm always a little disappointed that the latest Riff is never a retro review of the Epos ES14's, surely one of the great classics?!
I think so Mike, never mind Dave with his Musical Fidelity A1's that burn your house down! Exposure IV's or a pair of NAP 135's are the way to go. BTW, Dave mentioned on a previous Riff that he had a good demo at Aylesbury HiFi, it may well have been me that made his cup of tea and explained to him the intricacies of really understanding hifi?
@Hi-FiRiff He certainly did. He was the boss, and I thoroughly enjoyed my time there along with Jonathan & Dave. They really knew about the products they offered, cared about their customers, and it was just a great laugh working with them.. I could tell you a story about surreptitious use of laxatives in Bananaman's tea, but that would be foolish on the Internet 😉
I had an 0C9 and in weeks I sold it ! One of my favourid cartridges was a Fidelity research MC201......OH BOY still dream of it! The 110 ( Nagaoka) reminds me somewhat of a SHURE 55E.... Still like and have a type III. Never was a big fan of some Ortophon cartridges .....had one for my SME type III with the genuine SME molded arm ( Concorde ) .........sounded quite lifeless. MM Audio Technica .....audio balance to much shifted to the high medium and highs... Goldring 1042G ...........good sounding cartridge when you don't have the money for a decent MC. .......Do not buy cheap MC , better spend money on a good MM. Shure Type 4 was a deception for me ...prefered the III... EMT tsd 15 with VDH stylus ...;wonderfuill but difficult to align ... Best MC step up I still use for decades ............Mitchel Cotter MK2 L L.... The 33 from AT might be a good choice ............I thought about it for some time... Best TT platter for me is the Micro Seiki CU platter............nothing beats it and it is dead silent when sandwiched with a metal cast platter...marvelous retrieval of micro dynamics and the magic hidden in the grooves ., full of life, body and air ...no harshness what so ever and no smoothing of information .. A forgotten good sounding and very musical tone arm is the Mission 774.... OH ....I forgot to mention the >DENON DL 304 ! ....what a nice cartridge..... Kind regards
How much is the Shibata stylus playing a part here? I have the OC9XML mc and VM750SH mm cartridges and much prefer the 750 due to I think is the Shibata stylus profile, the microline on the oc9 is a bit smoother but not as dynamic in my opinion compared to the 750SH.
It plays a serious part, but the internal coil arrangement of the AT-33 is I think superior, and makes a lot of difference. The OC9 has an inferior coil arrangement and a better body than the AT-33 series.
Yes, that was the precursor, and very similar. 1980 vintage, I think. This in turn used the late 1970s Signet MKN dual moving coil technology, also seen in the AT-33Sa now. Nothing is ever new in cartridge design, it seems.
Personally, i think the AT33PTGii is even better for less. Also lasts a good bit longer too. The 33SA is too close to the Hana SL in price and the Hana is a considerably richer and colourful sounding cart, like a Denon103 on steroids and for me its quite abit preferable.
I think the Sa is a good way better than the already excellent PTG/II. The Hana SL is nice but lacks the delicacy and insight of the AT-33Sa - thanks in no small part to its inferior aluminium cantilever.
@@MrVinylista Horses for courses i guess. At the 33SA's price id have a Dyna 10x5ii, a Hana SL or even a Nag MP500 over it but without question the PTGii measures better, has a more advanced tip and lasts longer while at the same time doing less wear to ones vinyl for 25% less cost than the SA. The SA is a very solid alrounder and i didnt dislike it but it struck me it doesnt do one single thing better than its competitors - maybe thats its strength 🤔. Synergy is a thing though and different tastes/hearing is even more so, thus i dont claim to be a definitive opinion, if someone much prefers the SA im not gonna argue 👍
@@tomwebb7091 Well I've heard, owned, lived with and/or reviewed all the aforementioned and I disagree. Of your list, the Nag 500 would be my other choice, but the other two are a good way behind - even though they are fine cartridges and good fun. It is of course down to your ears, your system, your music tastes and the sound you like though - that's the joy of vinyl! 🙂
@@tomwebb7091 Thanks Tom. Just wanted to say, very much value your contribution. Reading my answer back it seems a bit smug, but I didn't mean it like that. It's amazing that vinyl still provokes so much interest and discussion. I am an absolute analogue obsessive and didn't realise there are others like me! 🙂
Watching this riff while listening to the new, excellent, Grandaddy album so was using closed captions. I never, um, realised, um, how many, um, ums were being, um, said between the, um, two of you. Um.
You might want to look at the Skyanalog P1G. It’s line contact, boron cantilever, tracks around 1.3-1.4g. I’ve got one here to test/review. Admittedly, I haven’t mounted it yet because I’ve been listening to their new top model w/diamond cantilever/MR. That one is fabulous. The P1G sells for around €600.
Mike is most likely right handed. Why doesn’t he give david a good hard back hand. Price never gives up with the digs and Mike takes it. It is very off putting.
you think it's better than the goldring ethos? I would struggle to say it is have you listened to the ethos? I can't see why you can't tighten it it's got a stud on the back the bolt goes all the way through, you could put another nut on there, it's the stud loose or is it fixed into the body looks like it's loose or just will come out quite easily, maybe use a brass nut have you tried using nylon nuts and bolts I prefer them actually and a sliver of bolster wood 3mm making sure the grain is vertical that makes a vast difference I find. I made a headshell out of it and impregnated it with resin works really well. not seeing anything on the market like that I don't know why. there's a couple places that will re-tip your cartridge there's goldring, soundSmith about $250 and jico,, I'm spending that right
I've not heard the Ethos in my system, but I have heard it elsewhere. Very nice, but I don't think it's as good as this. It's also one third more expensive. You can tighten the AT-33, just not to the level of the OC9. The body deforms way sooner. So handle with care.
Bob Sargent produced a lot of the greatest John Peel sessions. such as Gang Of Four, Wire, Joy Division, The Cure, Stiff Little Fingers, etc.
Thank you - I have just learned something which I consider to be very useful!
Bob Sargeant made an album 'First Starring Role ' with Mick Ronson, Dennis Mackay Co producing
Jolly good it is too. I bought it for 49p back in the mists of time.
I just bought this cart and I'm pretty blown away with what I'm hearing even though it's still closed off. Already getting really good instrument separation, very good depth, absolutely an expansive soundstage. What I wasn't prepared for was how the instruments and performers scaled up in size. Solo piano music gave me an impression of being 1:1, and it sounded much more convincing that it was right in the room, in a very good way. Everything seemed naturally closer. Having Magnepans, classical music took on a much grander and welcome size increase. It really does classical music justice. Audio-Technica was kind enough to show a frequency sweep, and let me tell you, this voicing is how it's done :) The mid's and upper mid's are back in the soundstage where they belong. With the increase in perceived scale of the performers and instruments, this could have gone south real fast with the typical mid forward voicing that can get in your face. This cart is so well done that when it opens up, it'll be pretty ridiculous :) in a great way. It just sounds more natural overall. Oh plus we/I keep separating our speakers in search of this soundstage width, and we shoot ourselves in the foot by having the speakers not couple with one another and loose some coherence with one another. Very special product for the money.
It's brilliant!
Mike
A lovely series of carts and great value. I too had the old AT32E back in the 80s and within the past 10 years the original 33ptg and now own a ptg/2 in my collection.
I prefer the micro line versions to the Shibata - better inner groove tracing and last longer, usually about £100 cheaper too than the Sa.
Hi chaps , good show as always, didn't the nagaoka mp200 have a boron cantilever? Which is a very nice moving iron cartridge.
I have a Hana SL mc cart in my Clearaudio Performance SE, which I like very much. So I went running to Google to see if it had a Boron cantilever.
Now I have cantilever envy..
Good stuff guys. I think Audio-Technica must be the best VFM on the market, frankly. I have the AT33PTG/II, a photo of which you used at the start of this video 😄
One mine from my collection I run mine "Nude",looks great sounds slightly better a bit more nimble in it`s SQ.
Thank you for this riff you guys definitely need to do MORE carts on here(some of my best viewing on youtube for hifi)and Mike you`re absolutely correct Sir,it`s a 10/10 - something tells me that David knows this but is reluctant to say so!
Hi guys, love the show.
I didn't know this cart and I recently bought it, after hearing about it here plus reading all the reviews I could find.
This cart is absolutely amazing, a proper performer!!
Thanks
Yes, it really is an absolute belter!
Mike
That was a great riff, thanks! I find myself looking for excuses to get this cart but I already have an AT Art9. Speaking of which: I never had the opportunity to compare it to the higher end competition but some people who did rated it very highly against rather more exotic cartridges. It may just be the same very high value for money proposition as the 33Sa but genuinely high-end, whatever that may mean.
Great to see an mc review. I had an OC9 MLii a few years back and found it thin, lifeless and flat. Last year I purchased a new OC9 XSL. Wow!, it is a revelation. Nothing like the older ML. This thing has it all. Dynamics, speed, detail, 3d, lovely top end, mids and bass, etc. Similar price to 33 sh.
Great post... definitely some food for thought.
Mike 👍
Wow good review, I've owned the oc9 back in the day. How do you think the AT33Sa compares to it's upper tier moving coils like AT-ART9X
Thanks guys, always enjoy your riffs.
I still have an OC7 in my old Roksan Xerxes, so Id love to hear this cartridge, but sadly I never play vynal anymore.
Im always interested in whatever 80s pap youve been playing too... I liked haircut 100 😊
Dig out the Xerxes, plug it in, crack a nice bottle of red and stick Pelican West on the platter.
Report back when your mission is complete. 👍
Mike
It’s a good looking cart as well! How’s about a Riff from your local;. Pommie pubs really are something special. Probably the only ting I miss about well London anyways😄
This is brilliant! It might be that I make the move to MC.
Fellas, thank you so much for this lovely review of the AT cartridge! Today I am especially pleased because you mentioned the A.N.T. phono preamp but also because I feel that Mr. Alex Nikitin does not get the attention he deserves. He’s just a lovely chap to deal with and not many people know this, but he is world authority on magnetic head technology and tape measurements. I don’t know if he still makes calibration tapes for cassette decks but he is a wealth of knowledge.
That being said, I’d hardly call 600 quid cheap! 😊 I’ve no doubt the AT is a wonderful cartridge but I feel like you likely need to spend at least another grand or more for a decent deck and so, it quickly becomes very expensive, prohibitively so for many people.
All the best, gents! Cheers!
Thanks, and yes, Alex Nikitin is quite a character. His Kora 3T SE is to my ears still one of the best solid-state phono stages that I've heard.
The AT-33Sa is cheap for a moving coil. Considering that you can spend £10,000 on one, then £600 is definitely on the highly affordable end of the spectrum. All the same, in absolute terms, £600 for a cartridge is not cheap - so it's all relative, I guess. Our point was that in 'sound per pound' terms, it's superb for a moving coil.
@@MrVinylista Thank you for replying, I feel privileged! May I say, I’ve read many of your reviews and like I said in an older comment, I enjoy your YT channel immensely. Not that I agree with everything you say, but it’s just that the atmosphere you’ve created in that room is so cheerful and relaxed and precisely what HIFI, like all great things in life, should be about - sharing the experience with the people you love.
Absolutely, the perception of “value” is relative and it’s up to the customer to “draw the line” on what is worth the money and what is not. That being said, your point is well taken and I especially appreciate you taking the time to compare the -33SA to the more known -OC9 model. I learned something new there.
As for Mr. Nikitin’s preamp, even though I am not surprised you like it, I must say, that is high praise indeed. Alex, if you’re reading this - Cheers mate!
All the best to you and your partner-in-crime ;)
Cheers - Antun
The biggest problem is the Delos. £840 on a trade in for like basis. Once you start getting into the Lyra camp the trade in details keep you coming back.
I have met Ken ishiwata also in Eindhoven and his set sound amazing. What I remember was a recording from the 50’s an woman’s voice so clear and real i never forget that.
Often when I see what is considered cheap, I get a new found love for spinning polycarbonate :)
Now listen chaps, glad you are giving us further stuff on cartridges. However the big news is that David's reference turntable seems to have a detachable head shell. Has he thereby rescued us Technics 1200G owners from outer darkness? I heard another You Tube channel describe the debate about the pros and cons of detachable head shells as a mere food fight. It is good news if we are lightening up about this issue, with detachable head shell use no longer resulting in hi fi cancellation.
I personally think the objection to detachable headshells is overstated. I think on cost-no-object, no compromise tonearms, then detachable headshells are a no-go. But for most applications they make less of a difference than other aspects of the tonearm design, such as the material used for the armtube and/or its damping, or of course its bearing design. The SME 309 teaches us that you can make a great sounding arm with a detachable headshell.
The worst aspect of the original SL-1200 mkII was sadly the pisspoor tonearm. It really isn't anywhere near as good as the motor unit, and Technics never pretended otherwise. Using an ADC magnesium headshell will help, along with high quality headshell wires (Audio-Technica 6108 at the bare minimum). I once had an SME V in my SL-1200 mkII and it absolutely murdered the stock Technics arm - like the difference between AM and FM radio - but there were some flaws from the deck apparent still.
The newer SL-1200G is much better, but still a long way away from where it needs to be. The truth is that if you have a top-quality arm in the new SL-1200G, then you have one of the best turntables in the world. That's quite a thing to say! The stock arm still holds it back a lot, but is much less objectionable than earlier stock arms. I'd go for a Rega RB300-series arm at the bare minimum, with an Origin Live arm plate. However, if you're serious about surgery, then I'd wait for the SL-1200G's replacement - coming later this year - and mod that, as the new deck is getting a(n even) better motor!
Hi Guys, love the reviews was just wondering how this compares with the PTG/2 and the Rega Ania pro? Incidentally a well known Technics modding compant uses the 33EV as their standard cartridge calling it a poor mans Koetsu...
Wow, you two are describing my cartridge/table journey; Karma, Troika( had the Garrott Bros rebuild it), Supex SD-900 Super that I still own and works, a Supex SD-330 that I think needs the leads repaired(very delicate), Dynavector Ruby, 17D Karat, Nagaoka MP-200 (new in box). I owned some more exotic Grado's from the eighties; Model 2, and Model 3, that came in these cool heavy aluminum tubes rather than cardboard. Right now I have Dynavector 20 X2 and XX-2 Mk II and I'm finding that the XX2 in my opinion is not as good as the 20X2 because (my thinking) the aluminum cantilevered 20X2 has a stylus pressed into the cantilever where the XX2 has to have the tip glued in(Boron), adding more mass to the tip. Of course, I could be wrong. Haven't tried a Hana but I think Audio Technica cartridges are a better investment than say the Ortrophon Red, Blue, Bronze, Black(not impressed at all). I thought an Audio Technica AT-VM95ML at $170.00 was better in every respect than an Ort Black. I want to try a better MC from AT but those Alnico Magnet cart., Dyna 20X2 and Hana ML just do things right. They're just soooo quiet as they do their thing.
Lovely post... I enjoyed reading every word.
Thank you.
Mike
Agree. Didn’t like the oc7 and oc9 back in the day, but then I had Kans so I guess it depends on partnering kit.
I heard the oc9 with my Sara's and boy, it was bright!
Mike
There are no surprises about the AT33. It has the widest channel separation. Yet to hear it.
Sounds like a good cartridge. I'm too late for vinyl,even though I'll openly admit that a finely tuned vinyl rig has a certain magic to it. Unless one goes exclusively to record fairs,obtaining new LPs is cost prohibitive and uses up alot of space. As someone who doesn't necessarily shop for the most mainstream artists,availability is more limited on vinyl too.Thanks as always.
Sadly, I agreed with all you say.
It still feels magical to me though, so I suffer for my art.
Mike
Quite a sensible review for you two.
By the way I've been meaning to say that I thought Lip Up Fatty was a classic.
Love that you have praised us for a sensible review whilst mentioning Buster.
Hi-fi Riff to a tee! (Except for the sensible bit).
Mike
Never heard one so no opinion , but I do like my DENON 103 for great tone, not a detail king but always lush for under 500.
Roxys Avalon album sounded great, and all the copies were pressed on 'Teldec' vinyl which was a high quality vinyl, costing an additional 50p per LP for the privilege at a time where that was 10% of the purchase cost.
Interesting! The AT 33 range has always been good but there are a lot of other options out there in and about the same price point . The Hana SL and ML are very good And compete easily ! It’s all a matter of taste and what works with your tonearm and table
Sadly the Hana MCs don't have the crystal-clear midband of the AT, or the treble delicacy for that matter. But it is, as you say, very much a matter of personal taste. Certainly the AT is a less 'emotional' sounding design.
Another great Riff chaps! Like you Mike, I'm extremely fond of the Linn Karma, and had mine rebuilt by Goldring. The transformation in sound quality was nothing short of staggering. However, if it does ever give up the ghost (I'm not sure how many times it could be rebuilt?), this Audio Technica AT 33-SA looks like it could be a possible contender as a replacement? I reckon you have similar ears to me Mike, with your LP12/Exposure IV set up (although I'm a NAIM man myself) and I'm a little surprised you maybe didn't get on with the AT-OC9, as coupled with an ARO/LP12 going into your Exposure set up seems like a pretty well balanced combination to take the edge off of the OC9? I know where you're coming from though about the OC9 (we used to sell them and Exposure). We never really liked the OC9 with a Roksan Xerxes for example, but with an LP12 it's a viable second choice - for me anyway - to the Karma. But this AT 33SE looks like a bit of a bargain.
IMHO, Audio Technica consistently made a great range of excellent value for money cartridges. Indeed as a fifteen year old, my first upgrade was to fit an AT-95E to my Systemdek IIx. For £18 it was an absolute steal. And later I thoroughly enjoyed the AT-F5 in my Ittok/LP12, Myst TMA3 and Epos 14s. I enjoy the Audio Technica 'sound' that is always energetic, engaging and involving, if partnered with a not-too-bright system further down the chain.
Thanks again for a great Riff guys, although I'm always a little disappointed that the latest Riff is never a retro review of the Epos ES14's, surely one of the great classics?!
Are you me in a parallel universe?
Mike
I think so Mike, never mind Dave with his Musical Fidelity A1's that burn your house down! Exposure IV's or a pair of NAP 135's are the way to go.
BTW, Dave mentioned on a previous Riff that he had a good demo at Aylesbury HiFi, it may well have been me that made his cup of tea and explained to him the intricacies of really understanding hifi?
Didn't Eric the Bananaman work there?
@Hi-FiRiff He certainly did. He was the boss, and I thoroughly enjoyed my time there along with Jonathan & Dave. They really knew about the products they offered, cared about their customers, and it was just a great laugh working with them.. I could tell you a story about surreptitious use of laxatives in Bananaman's tea, but that would be foolish on the Internet 😉
I had an 0C9 and in weeks I sold it !
One of my favourid cartridges was a Fidelity research MC201......OH BOY still dream of it!
The 110 ( Nagaoka) reminds me somewhat of a SHURE 55E....
Still like and have a type III.
Never was a big fan of some Ortophon cartridges .....had one for my SME type III with the genuine SME molded arm ( Concorde ) .........sounded quite lifeless.
MM Audio Technica .....audio balance to much shifted to the high medium and highs...
Goldring 1042G ...........good sounding cartridge when you don't have the money for a decent MC.
.......Do not buy cheap MC , better spend money on a good MM.
Shure Type 4 was a deception for me ...prefered the III...
EMT tsd 15 with VDH stylus ...;wonderfuill but difficult to align ...
Best MC step up I still use for decades ............Mitchel Cotter MK2 L L....
The 33 from AT might be a good choice ............I thought about it for some time...
Best TT platter for me is the Micro Seiki CU platter............nothing beats it and it is dead silent when sandwiched with a metal cast platter...marvelous retrieval of micro dynamics and the magic hidden in the grooves ., full of life, body and air ...no harshness what so ever and no smoothing of information ..
A forgotten good sounding and very musical tone arm is the Mission 774....
OH ....I forgot to mention the >DENON DL 304 ! ....what a nice cartridge.....
Kind regards
Great cartridge, I loved mine, but apparently difficult to get rebuilt as the cantilever is potted into the cartridge.
Yes, that cartridge is a fantastic deal and performer, but sadly, I can't use MC carts at my home because I always get FM interference.
How much is the Shibata stylus playing a part here? I have the OC9XML mc and VM750SH mm cartridges and much prefer the 750 due to I think is the Shibata stylus profile, the microline on the oc9 is a bit smoother but not as dynamic in my opinion compared to the 750SH.
It plays a serious part, but the internal coil arrangement of the AT-33 is I think superior, and makes a lot of difference. The OC9 has an inferior coil arrangement and a better body than the AT-33 series.
Was there ever an AT-32E or something? I seem to remember using one on an Ariston RD80SL back in the very early 80s. It was gold coloured, I believe.
Yes, that was the precursor, and very similar. 1980 vintage, I think. This in turn used the late 1970s Signet MKN dual moving coil technology, also seen in the AT-33Sa now. Nothing is ever new in cartridge design, it seems.
Personally, i think the AT33PTGii is even better for less. Also lasts a good bit longer too. The 33SA is too close to the Hana SL in price and the Hana is a considerably richer and colourful sounding cart, like a Denon103 on steroids and for me its quite abit preferable.
I think the Sa is a good way better than the already excellent PTG/II. The Hana SL is nice but lacks the delicacy and insight of the AT-33Sa - thanks in no small part to its inferior aluminium cantilever.
@@MrVinylista Horses for courses i guess. At the 33SA's price id have a Dyna 10x5ii, a Hana SL or even a Nag MP500 over it but without question the PTGii measures better, has a more advanced tip and lasts longer while at the same time doing less wear to ones vinyl for 25% less cost than the SA. The SA is a very solid alrounder and i didnt dislike it but it struck me it doesnt do one single thing better than its competitors - maybe thats its strength 🤔. Synergy is a thing though and different tastes/hearing is even more so, thus i dont claim to be a definitive opinion, if someone much prefers the SA im not gonna argue 👍
@@tomwebb7091 Well I've heard, owned, lived with and/or reviewed all the aforementioned and I disagree. Of your list, the Nag 500 would be my other choice, but the other two are a good way behind - even though they are fine cartridges and good fun. It is of course down to your ears, your system, your music tastes and the sound you like though - that's the joy of vinyl! 🙂
@@MrVinylista You have certainly heard more than i David, my stacks of old Hifi Choice in the toilet attest to that!
@@tomwebb7091 Thanks Tom. Just wanted to say, very much value your contribution. Reading my answer back it seems a bit smug, but I didn't mean it like that. It's amazing that vinyl still provokes so much interest and discussion. I am an absolute analogue obsessive and didn't realise there are others like me! 🙂
Looking for reasonable cost cartridges at the moment, and for compatibility with my Zeta arm, this AT-33Sa could be a good match?
@MrVinylista
Love Plus One
Watching this riff while listening to the new, excellent, Grandaddy album so was using closed captions.
I never, um, realised, um, how many, um, ums were being, um, said between the, um, two of you.
Um.
That's the most intelligent thing we have to say!
Mike
You might want to look at the Skyanalog P1G. It’s line contact, boron cantilever, tracks around 1.3-1.4g.
I’ve got one here to test/review. Admittedly, I haven’t mounted it yet because I’ve been listening to their new top model w/diamond cantilever/MR. That one is fabulous.
The P1G sells for around €600.
Thanks, I'll try and get one in for review. Specs-wise it's impressive. Very rare to see a boron cantilever at that price.
$1,140 here in Oz. Not exactly 'cheap'
You should jet up to Japan - probably one third of that in Tokyo!
Dynovector 20x2 just saying
Morning gents👍👍
Morning KJ!
Ur equipment is making oc9 cartridges sound sharp forward etc... My oc9xml sounds as good as my vastly overpriced Cadenza Bronze at 456GBP
I’m wanting to go mc on my LP 12 with naim separates and trichord phono would this cart be good for me thanks
I would say a resounding "yes".
I'm going to put one on my LP12 with exposure amps.
Mike
That’s great thanks for the advice
I had an AT-33E on my LP12/Ittok LVII in the early 1990s and it was superb. The AT-33Sa will be even better.
@@MrVinylistathat’s great to know we look on yous for advice thanks
Have you tried any Benz Micro?
@MrVinylista
Mike is most likely right handed. Why doesn’t he give david a good hard back hand. Price never gives up with the digs and Mike takes it. It is very off putting.
Years of abuse I'm afraid!
Mike
Pelican West is ace. Always has been, always will be.
Still doin' The Southern Freeez here.
@@bigblueocean Surely it's 3 e's on Freeez,😄😄
e7239 thanks David. I think you are right. I've edited my remark. :)
you think it's better than the goldring ethos? I would struggle to say it is have you listened to the ethos?
I can't see why you can't tighten it it's got a stud on the back the bolt goes all the way through, you could put another nut on there, it's the stud loose or is it fixed into the body looks like it's loose or just will come out quite easily, maybe use a brass nut
have you tried using nylon nuts and bolts I prefer them actually and a sliver of bolster wood 3mm making sure the grain is vertical that makes a vast difference I find. I made a headshell out of it and impregnated it with resin works really well. not seeing anything on the market like that I don't know why.
there's a couple places that will re-tip your cartridge there's goldring, soundSmith about $250 and jico,, I'm spending that right
I've not heard the Ethos in my system, but I have heard it elsewhere. Very nice, but I don't think it's as good as this. It's also one third more expensive.
You can tighten the AT-33, just not to the level of the OC9. The body deforms way sooner. So handle with care.
@@MrVinylista and you got paid for this review?
@@hoobsgroove No.
@@hoobsgrooveOh no, fake news!! Always the same with those two guys, must be how they finance the ultra high production value 💸🤭
@@MrVinylista ok nice
*Promosm* 🙈