Are SynthsToo Expensive? Classic & Modern Synth Prices Compared - Moog, ARP, Korg, Roland, Yamaha
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- In this video I look at the relative prices of classic and modern synths to put their prices into perspective. The synth models I look at are listed in the Timeline below.
UK viewers in particular will be interested in some of the findings 😱
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Quick Subscribe: / @ianwaugh
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Timeline
🕑 What is "expensive"? 0:41
🕑 Moog Minimoog Model D 4:54
🕑 Acquiring the data (DON;T MISS THIS BIT) 5:06
🕑 Back to the Minimoog & explaining the criteria used 7:49
🕑 Current income & current house prices 9:25
🕑 Is the Minimoog expensive? UK prices 11:01
🕑 The Behringer phenomenon 12:23
🕑 ARP 2600 13:04
🕑 ARP 2600 clones 14:56
🕑 Yamaha CS-80 19:49
🕑 CS-80 alternatives 21:23
🕑 Korg MS-20 22:34
🕑 MS-20 re-releases and clones 23:33
🕑 Sequential Prophet 5 24:31
🕑 Prophet 5 & 10 re-issues 25:36
🕑 Roland Jupiter-8 27:00
🕑 Jupiter-8 clone 27:53
🕑 Yamaha SY77 28:24
🕑 Summary 30:31
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Resources Mentioned (in chronological order)
How (Not) To Buy A Synthesiser:
• How (Not) To Buy A Syn...
Inflation calculator:
www.bankofengl...
Historical exchange rates:
fxtop.com/en/h...
Average wages:
google.co.uk
api.parliament...
Bistorical Uk House Prices (Download):
www.nationwide...
Synth prices:
Sound On Sound:
www.soundonsou...
wikipedia.com
Ralph Baumgartl 2600 Playlist:
• Behringer 2600 and ARP...
The Human Comparator (THC):
www.thehumanco...
SynthCube:
synthcube.com/...
Black Corporation:
black-corporat...
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My SY77 music. These are pieces recorded exclusively with the Yamaha's SY77:
Champions: • Champions (Rediscovere...
Space Music: • Space Music - Is This ...
Fanfares: • Fanfares (rediscovered...
Erik Satie's Gymnopédie: • Erik Satie's Gymnopédi...
Peace Of Angels: • Peace of Angels (Album...
Spirit Of The Whale: • Spirit of the Whale (A...
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My 1990;s Studio: • My 1990 Studio - Yamah...
My Rediscovered Tapes: • My 1980's Studio - Ice...
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Visual: Free stock images and videos:
pixabay.com/
www.pexels.com/
snappygoat.com/
#Synthesizers #Synth_Prices
The only thing I know for sure is that the OP1 and all lookalikes are expensive.
Hey Robert - Yes, apparently they greatly raised the price with the last release. Lots of people love them but not for me.
I have one bought on sale over year ago and it is a fun toy but not as great for making music as my Elektrons and Virus synthesizers@@IanWaugh
The price of a juno 106 new corrected for inflation is near the price of a used one....correct me if im wrong
Hi Robert - I haven't done the sums on this one so I don't know. As I explained in the video, I don't think inflation-adjusted prices are the best guide to affordability so the 'real' adjusted cost could well be higher. But vintage certainly isn't cheap these days 😀
as much of work as you did here, I think it's still not accurate. There are way more factors in it.
a) Complexity of equipment, components and build quality
b) change of costs of these and the efforts of developement and design
c) what you can actually do with it
d) possible return of invest.
e) Rareness
f) Desirability
g) Number of units and costs per production
And there is some difference between old and really new synths. Let's say in the 80s, someone was buying a fairlight for at least 2 houses. Well if they were composing or producing hits back then - the roi was there almost immediately. So no problem at all. Nowadays, try to make money with selling records - good luck. In the days music was really hot and profitable you also had to have new things in your songs to even have a chance to hit charts. No such thing anymore, music doesn't excite anymore anyways, as long as Autotune and some drum beat are involved it should be fine for the spotifiers. No need for new sounds.
You've calculated the Price of a CS-80 at 31.500 Pounds. Well in some FB-Forums we've seen prices claimed for more than 100.000 $ now. So this is insane. And none actually is in working condition and will need expensive service. Still that beast still is unmatched sound and playing wise, leaving the GX-1 aside. it's rare, so the market just does what it has to do here. Problem though is, these collectors items are not bought anymore by musicians but people with pure financial interests which destroys that market anyways.
So the old gear you actually can't put your fingers on it, it's hard to judge. I'm happy with those two analog underestimated analog synths I've got, the JX8-P and the Matrix 6 R. Got them cheaper then they are now but they are still modest. Wouldn't ever sell these. Wouldn't understand a Juno 106 at 4 times the price at all.
Synths are always not expensive when it's not their time. That's why I've bought the DX7 mk1, CZ-1, D-50, Korg T3Ex, JV2080, SY99 and K2500 all for 200 - 800 Euros. I am sure all of their will raise the next years. As I am for my newest addition the Kronos 73 which I got for 1100 Euros (first time over 1000 for decades). Which is a bargain, as prices still can be found up to 2000 and actually there's no better workstation yet after 10 years. Their prices will go down soon but I'm certain they will be seen as the amazing beast of the 2010er in 20 years and prices will go up again.
The price discussion should rather be targeted on recent models. And partially yes I think they are too expensive. If you compare the actual costs of the components, you practically get ripped of. What's inside those synthesizers? The Kronos has an Intel Atom inside and a 60 GB SSD, plus a touchscreen. Think of a Computer with such equipment and you'll end on a consumer tablet for about 100 Euro. Add a good 73 graded hammer action keybed with aftertouch, maybe 40 buttons, a solid body (with some plastics though), 10 faders, 10 knobs, about 50 buttons and leds, jog wheel, Joystick and ribbon controller plus vector stick, loads of jacks and connectivity... It might add 1000 Euros for that. But the retail price was 4.000. Sure, the developement and all the programming had to be done plus eventually licensing. Which certainly took time and money. On the other hand, lots was already done for the 2 Oasys, the Tritons, the Korg Legacy (synth engines). Over the 10 years the product had been sold, I've read about 50.000 had been sold. So that's quite a number and all of these costs are coming down. On the other hand, the total income of this product was about 200.000 - 500.000 $ which is not all to much, the market just is not huge. And they have to pay their workers, insurances, markteting, lawyers and shareholders. Still though I'm sure Korg made a huge profit out of their products since the M1. Especially if you consider they could always sell the same things in new packages. They are doing so now again with the Nautilus, the stage pianos and now these little Synths they call modwave, Opsix and Wavestate. Practically all just software parts which were existent for 15 years with the Oasys, placed out, modified running on a extremely budget processor, and build into a little plasticy keyboard without aftertouch. Price looking attractive but - they are making quite a profit here, no doubt at all. Still competition often is even worse or not even existing.
This is exactly what Behringer realized and why they are able to compete now on such lower prices. We've had been ripped of partially because of our GAS (Gear addictive syndrome)
Hi Torben - Wow! Thank you so much for your comments. Yes, I agree, there are many factors to take into consideration when deciding whether or not a synth is 'expensive' including the most difficult one which is your own personal situation and justification. So I took a difficult topic and tried to simplify it 😁 It is, of course, far from perfect but I hope is enables a sort of comparison between vintage gear and their modern clones and current 2nd hand pricing. At the end of the day, I suspect most companies price gear at levels they think it will sell at (or how much they can 'get away' with charging). Much to think on. Thanks again for your awesome comment 👍
and the new Behringer System 55 recreation of the expensive Moog Modular makes it affordable to most people who do not have 50k for a synth. Let the rich buy the 70K Colossus, 10k keyboards and maybe find at an estate sale for cheap later on?@@IanWaugh
I could afford a brand new OB-6 but i would have a dozen sleepless nights about how much i had to work for that. That means expensive to me.
Hey - Thanks for watching and your comment. Yes, it's about both Afford and Justify. I am sorely tempted by the OB-6 but feel the same way 😢 I'm waiting until Behringer releases its OB machine 😁
it took me years of saving and being frugal to buy my synths, guitars and amps with no debt but I have not bought any new gear this year. Not inspired by many new synths. Would still love an ARP 2600 full size recreation and Prophet 10 keyboard however@@IanWaugh
@@GuitarsAndSynths Yes indeed. There's a lot to be said for soft synths 😊
What synth is that behind you in the background?
Hi - The one on the right in the video is the Moog Grandmother Dark 😁
What matters is VALUE for your money,if that matters to you.If you have tons of money,you probably do not have to care,and that's another point of view.For me,it has to make sense by being something I always use,that is comfortable to use,and is something that can grow with me,as I explore.All the other talk is just more of the obvious,and just because it's considered a 'classic',that does not mean it's great value.I got my analog synth for $250,and now,the same one is around $1500,yet that doesnt mean that makes the synth better,it just means it's more popular.One famous trap is,when 'famous' people endorse or are known to use something,it's considered by many to be important,worth the money,and is going to be a tool to make great music with.
Hey Michael - Thank you for watching and your comment. Yes, 'expensive' is relative for each individual. I think most people would agree with your assessment. I say more about 'value' here: ua-cam.com/video/8l7BKxvL9Ds/v-deo.html
In this video I was mainly trying to put modern synth prices into perspective with older synths. Interesting to compare, I think.
@@IanWaugh I have three older synths and the only new ones I love are the Hydrasynth...Jupiter XL...Cobalt 8...Iridium....Subharmonicon...Sledge 2...and i'm digging the Fantom workstation..
@@michaels5166 Wow! Great collection 👍 A fantastic range of sounds and potential there.
@@IanWaugh I MIGHT get one of those but instead I am getting two more sampling machines first,then we will see down the line about a synth...
@@michaels5166 Intrigued now. What samplers and synth?
Yes especially the 4-6k gear sold by Black Corporation. Way too expensive and not inspired by the sounds of these expensive pieces of kit that a soft synth plugin can duplicate for less money in a DAW.
Yes, absolutely. Most soft synths can do much more and cost far less than hardware counterparts but some hardware is unreasonably expensiv/overpriced..
and now that playing out live is pretty much dead, no real need to buy new hardware@@IanWaugh
@@GuitarsAndSynths Yes, and many performers now use a controller and a laptop😊
Hi, Ian! I was quite eager to hear what you were about to say on this topic. After watching it I couldn't avoid the conclusion that there are weird times we're living in just now and It is in fact rather ungrateful task to make something like you just did. First, because old stuff is rising in prices like oldtimer cars do, then we must not neglect cheap but very usable low-entry products that affect the prices of musical equipment in general, and in the end the fact someone had mentioned down there in comments - usability of gear in different hands (what can you actually do with it). There's no doubt that old machines were made more seriously, to withstand heavy duty exploatation for many years (a guy who maintains my SY77 is smiling each time after opening it, happy to see properly attached electronics!) and the sound quality of models on your list is really unbeatable. But for those who can hear such a specific difference! There is no suspicion that SY77 can emulate pads belonging to JP8 or famous fat leading brasses used from CS80 by Vangelis so many times. When you place such sounds in final production position, or total mix if you prefer, who can tell the difference if you managed that job well, in accordance with good ear, taste and basic handling of recording gear?! Personally, I combine quite cheap keyboards with my SY and get astonishing results. There is always a way to deceive limits of machinery by using your brain and healthy logic. Reducing things here and there can help a lot, confirming the saying :"Less is more!" By this, we very often open our space of acting to amazing sounding results. But it is always important to adjust production to demands coming out from musical content. It is not easy to learn how to achieve it, but listening to music a lot and studying many different genres of music as well as recording cases can build selfconfidency in that field to quite usable levels. So, I think we should leave all the famous gear to those who can really afford it, with hope that their investment can confirm reasons for their purchase, they will know best was it worth it or not. I know that wages from music dropped strong lately, following worrying forecasts for times to come, so if we add to calculation predictable return of invested money in legendary synths, we are definitely broke! Modern monsters that are approaching 5.000 $ costs are going to become even more expensive due to lack of electronic parts, but second-hand instruments and plug-ins will fulfill negative sides of it. Also, new producers of gear on the world market will see their chance to place their products and compete with low prices, so it is going to be very interesting whitnessing new era of being a musician!
Hi Vanja - Thank you for another wonderful and well-thought-out comment. When I started this video, I wasn't sure what I was going to find but essentially I found that modern instrunments and modern clones were less expensive than older instruments comparatively speaking. I didn't really touch on the price of 2nd hand vintage gear. For me, I wouldn't buy old, over-priced stuff at all although, of course, many people do - which is what pushes the prices up - and that's fine. But talking of current prices, many modern instruments look set to rise and many have done so already. You might want to check this: ua-cam.com/video/msOKv14jyq8/v-deo.html In my opinion - and it's only MY opinion - price increases are only going to make some already over-priced synths simply dire VFM and not worth buying. Untill ALL synths catch up and we have a relatively level playing field again. If that happens. SY77s seem to be good value, though 😊
@@IanWaugh Dear Ian, thank you for sharing interesting issues we all bother in the world of music! If one surfs across youtube, a lot of imaginative clips can be found playing the old gear in such a creative and artistically superb way. Some of the instruments are subsequently upgraded owing to editing softwares created meanwhile and brave enthusiasts who dig deep into editing architecture of these machines. Some of them somehow succed in attempts to play synthesizer classics such as Vangelis or JM Jarre, and it sounds mighty and gorgious. My modest opinion is that this means a lot of musicians are about to use very affordable gear in the most imaginative way possible as long as it is going to be at disposal. Top models like Montage, Fantom G8 or Nord Stage will still keep being standard among well paid professionals, mainly live-playing musicians, although many features of mentioned models somehow seem to remain ignored. Nevertheless, old proven synths as Motif models become more affordable every day, and they were used worldwide and can be seen almost on every stage in live performances. It is a confirmation of their quality and durability, and they can fulfill every expectation, regardless the style of music or the ocassion.
@@TrazomGV Hi Vanja - Sorry if I gave the wrong impression. I'm not criticising vintage gear - just their prices and cost of upkeep 😊 Not for me. At the end of the day, it's the music that matters. I keep telling myself this as I scroll ever deeper through another menu 🤣
Very informative! Thanks for doing the research and putting this together.
Hey Matt, glad you liked it. It wasn't the focus of the video but I was shocked by how much more we get charged in the UK 👿 Something to keep in mind... BUT we're not going to go there 😱