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@@Johnmike how you feel about midi controllers is how I have always felt. I almost went to studio logic until Nektar finally upped their game, so I stuck with my panorama P6 I’m also having this same exact problem with the new SofTube Console 1 Mk3 Advertising and reviews for it are SATURATING all the internet and UA-cam, but I can barely find anything about the icon pro audio P1-M, for example I see a lot about the V1-M (the direct competitor to the console 1, in my opinion), but even then nothing in comparison to softube and how there’s clearly been money spent to saturate The information streams That having been said, I respect they softube is still privately owned, and not swooped up by hedge funds, like everyone else (Arturia and native instruments, as well as plugin alliance are now hedge fund owned)
As a decades long guitarist getting into synths and midi controllers, i'm not jaded like veteran players. So i'm enamored with what midi controllers can do. My macbook, 61 key midi keyboard, arturia v collection, pigments, logic pro, was less than i've paid for one guitar. And the possibilities with this setup is limitless.
@@djkanyon My Gibson Les Paul Classic was $2k. My midi controller $270, logic pro $200, analog v collection 8 $60, pigments $100, and my macbook $1k, but I already had the laptop before this.
Lol. That's not a great example, comparing the price of a Gibson Les Paul with this stuff. You can get a pretty good guitar for 300 quid. But you could probably go even cheaper with this, if you avoid apple completely, buy cheaper MIDI controllers and use free software.
Studiologic Numa Compact 2...not very affordable, but it has a Fatar TP/9, it's simple and it's a bit cheaper than the current flagship controllers. This, together with the forthcoming Behringer's BCR32 controller would make a great pair. Don't you agree?
@@Smooveg25 there’s Studiologic made by the Fatar company itself, but I myself am missing the variation in keysized. No Studiologic with 49 keys. It’s a weird market for controllers
@@Pacman1ac I'm also using numa compact 2 as my main rig for live perform since it has built in audio interface output , which is good enough for live.
Agree 100%. I work as a writer for a large music retailer (170M/y), and I'm the de facto guy for keyboards, synths, MIDI-keyboards 'n such. And for over a decade I'm more or less writing the same things, and I see the same development patterns. First they start with a very basic model (the MK1), then the MK2 adds bluetooth MIDI, then the MK3 adds a new keybed, then the MK4 adds a new display. I mean, anyone with half a brain could've added these together in one model right from the start. But yea, everyone knows the drill. In order tot sustain business, customers need to pay up 100% for each new model for only 5% new features. It was actually shocking when a few years ago I added a fullsize 25-key MIDI keyboard to our shop. Later on I noticed there was an old Yamaha MIDI keyboard, also 25 fullsize keys, which was by then over 10 years already already. It was the same thing! Faders, pads, encoders, transport, the whole thing had the same features. It's just the colors, specific shapes and location which was different - and obviously the software that comes with it. The only somewhat new thing these days is that the traditional USB connectors get replaced by USB-C connectors. Whoop whoop! My conclusion: the companies are out of inspiration. No one tries anything new, and no one would even know anything new anyway. The evolution is complete, what else is there to add? Even worse: all these company websites look like one big marketing squirt. One really doesn't get the impression that the musical/tech guys are writing all that. It's all fancy fonts, fancy graphics (rather than normal graphics you can actually properly use in retail), fancy frames with fancy texts, but no order in this chaos at all. It takes hours to sort out what's new, just by having to dig through thick layers of nonsense. The only MIDI keyboard of interest I added recently was the Korg Keystage, because of the keybed by ASM (Hydrasynth). And before that? I wouldn't even know... the whole MPE thing was nice surrounding Roli, but I"m not even sure that vibe has aged well. I guess the Kontakt LEDs from Novation's S-series are nice, though technically I could live without. I also agree on rarely needing faders/encoders - if ever anyway. In fact, my own MIDI-controller is a Hydrasynth Deluxe, it's a great synth with a great keybed. With synths it's more or less the same thing, unfortunately. Lots of garage companies with weird expensive synths no one needs, and the traditional companies rehashing the past over and over again. They too are out of ideas. A shift of paradigm is sorely needed. New blood. New ideas.
The faders are useful to us composer types. Well... COULD be. Most VSTs nowadays you need more than just the mod wheel to control, which is why having faders is so good. But... the idiotic thing is for forever these keyboards usually only allow you to operate in one "mode" at a time, where you can either control the DAW, OR use the faders for CC control, not both. Basically they become useless, because the DAW and keyboard integration is still so crap. It's either proprietary or uses 30 year old integration tech. My 20 year old Roland midi controller could do this better. 😂 Almost every composer I know, therefore, has a Korg mini control 2 sitting on their keyboard for this very reason. 😂
Someone could make a controller with a huge adjustable screen, 16 pads with Maschine-like sensitivity and MPE, keys with MPE, faders, knobs, lots of connectivity, good build quality, top quality DAW control, ability to load VST's within the midi controller by adding storage drives that install the VSTs on them, etc. This would be my dream midi controller, but no one has ever done it. One company has some of the features, but are missing others, and so on.
@@vatolegato But that's not how companies work. To sustain their business, the regularly need to release something new. If they'd put it all into one machine, and if that machine is the ultimate machine, who would ever need the follow-up, a few years down the line? It's in *their* interest to sell *incomplete* products. So they *know* these products are incomplete. Mind you, I'm not against business practices, we all have to eat. But there was a time in for example synth history when each year (due to a sudden revolution in CPU and RAM performance) you really got a *new* synth. From mono to polyphonic, from analog to FM, from early expensive sampling to affordable sampling, from meager polyphony to large polyphony, from little sample RAM to large sample RAM. As a customer you had the impression that any new synth back then was money well spent. The problem these days is that MIDI keyboards don't really evolve anymore, and then you might wonder what the added value of a new model really is... DAW software faces the same problems, for that matter.
@@mvsmsx That's a good point. I guess the best way to get what we want is to do it ourselves if we have that ability. But we can always just buy a customized setup. People can still make music regardless of what midi controllers they have.
Would be nice if they came with a separate/secondary power supply. Using on a mobile device (phone/tablet) uses up its only USB port and prevents the device from being able to charge its battery.
@@Johnmike A hot plugin takes off, and suddenly everyone is copying it and new companies are copying it. LoFi plugins, granular plugins, wavetable synths, etc. It's boring out there at times.
You hit the nail on the head... They've peaked. IMO the next evolution is for visual/physical feedback, tighter software integration, and workflow-based engineering. Something like a Streamdeck, but integrated into a Midi controller. You're correct, I've never mixed a song using faders on a keyboard MIDI controller. I have mixed songs on control surfaces before, and I prefer it over mouse and keyboard, but only because the control surface is engineered to give me all the visual feedback necessary to navigate a session. This is why products like the Ableton Push are very successful over generic pad controllers... Tight vendor-specific integration and engineering to optimize a workflow that the software offers. Ever Midi controller vendor needs to here this. If not, they'll continue to capitalize on producing cheap controllers because we keep buying them, and not demanding anything better.
They need to add motorized faders or proper weighted keys. They aren't evolving. Do these things sell like hotcakes? Cheap guitars and bass have evolved a lot.
I still use Roland Midi Controller from 13 years ago (Roland A500 Pro) and feel content with it (most of mys synths/keys are considered vintage/very old now)... all the functions, buttons, sliders, knobs and keys responds are assigned to what i need in live gig. as much as i'm a gear addict and want new toys -- the money will go to family and other things that's currently more important.. all i want to say is, there's something rewarding with staying on and learn/keep what you have to serve you the most.. they are just TOOL after all.. the treasure and what matter most is YOU.
I think the real big issue here is that the manufacturers are trying to be all things to all people all at the same time. A company like Arturia with the large array of virtual instruments that they create, should be completely aware of the idea that different virtual instruments require different controllers, it makes a big difference in the way you play an instrument. If you’re going to play a virtual organ, well, it would really be helpful to have two manuals, waterfall keys, and drawbars, or rocker switches. If you are truly going to be playing synth recreations, you need lots of knobs and sliders, you might also need a ribbon controller. If you’re going to be playing a virtual Prophet-VS, or a virtual Wavestation it’s essential to have a joystick. The types and amount of physical controllers that you have really does impact the way you play the instrument. If you try to please everyone with every unit, you’re going to wind up pleasing nobody and exciting no one. At this point, I would love to find a small company that would be interested in building custom keyboard midi controllers for me; maybe then I might actually get unique instruments that I’m excited to play my virtual instruments with.
Fully agreed. We have incredible software hammond simulations and no hammond-like controller. I would buy one immediately (there is one, but it costs like an hammond clone...)
As a non-keyboardist I never understood the whole idea of upgrading a keyboard because they felt pretty much the same years ago. If you really want innovation I think you have to look at MPE keyboards. That involves learning how to play with a different level of expression and they may not be for everyone. Otherwise what you already have is probably good enough.
I think push 2 is the only one worth using to control a DAW. Too bad we can't get some midi controllers with full weighted keys instead of all the unnecessary features.
There needs to be a midi controller that integrates with all the major platforms like NI Kontakt, Arturia, etc. Include a large touch screen, mpe, faders on left side, knobs, drum pads, at least midi 2.0, wireless zero to low latency & after touch.
Touch screen? Why?? Maybe a decent sized screen but it doesn't need to be touch. We need about 24 pads or so, 10-12 faders and about 24 encoders. Let me sound design on the controller as if it were a synth
@@AprilRoxStudios M-Audio Hammer 88 Pro was the closest thing to it but yet so FAR so as the Novation SL series if only they made an 88 key version ✋😩🤚
First time on this channel. I think you hit the nail on the head about the "reviews" and the "shills". I take any UA-camr's "reviews" with a grain of salt. It is very disingenuous to even label something a "review" when the company that sent it to you is controlling the narrative. I have seen some admit that they were asked to make "x" amount of videos, touting certain features in exchange for having the keyboard sent to them. Additionally, I have heard at least 1 in particular say that he couldn't really say a lot of negative things because then they wouldn't work with him anymore. Realistically, these videos should not even be labeled "reviews", they should be labeled as "product spotlight", "paid advertisement", etc because it is paid marketing. In reality, people are suppose to clearly disclose that they are getting the product for free in exchange for their "review", "survey", etc. Many UA-camrs don't do this, but you know it was sent to them because they have the products before launch.
Taetro at one point slipped that he was busy editing a review and then having to send it to the respective company for approval. So much for independence and "unbiased".
@@beatz04 🤔. I just don't like shilling. I am ok with "influencers" doing videos but not presenting them as unbiased "reviews", when these videos are really infomercials.
I just had a look at ricky tinez videos page yesterday, every video is just advertising a different piece of music hardware.. There's only a couple there that are actually interesting.
The new Launchkey did bring some pretty innovative chord features that look interesting, and I've never been a user of previous chord features. But you're right, with Arturia taking six years to refresh the Keylab and Novation taking four for the Launchkey, we really deserved a lot more. I'm hoping this disappointing generation is just the result of residual effects of the pandemic on the companies' product roadmap and maybe we quickly get another iteration with the improvements we should have had this year. See you in two years! 🤞🏽😄
You hit it right on the head. These companies need to focus on a really good keybed. That's all we really want. None of the bells and whistles and marketing crap.
Question. If midi keyboards arent getting any better. But someone was looking to get something for his studio. Would it be better to just buy an arranger/workstation or actual keyboard/digital piano of some sort, and just use it as a midi controller when need be?
I think there's still a lot of innovation to be done. Infinite encoders, better bidirectional communication and compatibility, Q/A, better build quality, bigger displays, better pads, novel input interfaces. Even things like good poly aftertouch are still extremely rare. Sure, a basic keybed was done over half a century ago. But there's a ton of stuff that can be improved in so many ways.
Hi John, great video. I cannot believe that Arturia does not offer a MIDI controller NOT for DAWs, but one specifically for virtual synths that just has a huge amount of knobs, faders and switches with small, cheap LED screens only for text under them to automap to all of their different synth emulation plugins and most of their parameters, not just Analog Lab. The Keylab range has never been enough to cover all the parameters of even simple synths like the Moog Mini. A controller specifically for actually playing synths. Is that too much to ask for?
@@Johnmike Exactly. Soundforce's SFC-Mini is a good example of that, but lacks a keyboard and mod wheels. Imagine something a bit more robust than that, and add a 61 keybed with poly aftertouch, a small 8x8 LED lit buttons grid (not pads) for live looping/clip pattern sequencer programming, scene buttons and a transport, and you've got yourself something never been made before for V Collection to be fully sequenced for live performances in Logic, Live and FL Studio. Probably would cost around $800+, but I would buy that in a heartbeat.
Thanks for the honesty. It sure feels like they just want to sell more plastic in a new housing that makes everyone excited when the "new" features are a literal daw plugin we already have.
I really don’t understand why not a single one of those new MIDI controllers has MIDI 2.0, MPE, or Property Exchange. The only new thing for the same price is the Korg Keystage with MIDI 2.0 and Poly Aftertouch!
Technically MIDI 2.0 is still in development, but I agree. There's other synths with PolyAT too such as the ASM Hydrasynth and the Waldorf Iridium. Korg licensed the PolyAT from ASM for their Keystage. The new NI controllers have PolyAT beds by Fatar. Of course none of those are MPE controllers, but there is the Osmose. PolyAT is at least becoming more common which why the Keylab MkIII is a major disappointment. If take more expressive control over a bunch of knobs and sliders any day.
@@SomebodyPickaName I didn't know either until I looked into it recently. I guess the core implementation is done, but some things are still getting hammered out. Every time I look into it I find conflicting information.
I'm looking to invest in a new MIDI keyboard with 61 keys and have narrowed it down to three options: the Novation Launchkey MK4, the Nektar LX61+, and the Arturia KeyLab Essential. Could you share your experiences with these models? Which one do you think would be the best choice? Additionally, do you have any other keyboard recommendations I should consider? Thanks!
The Keylab 3 is a big fail to version 2. No real innovation here, worst upgrade of all. The Launchkey 4 is a good upgrade in my opinion. I like the new 37 key mini version, if you on the road it is great. The NI 3 is… I don‘t know, not a great upgrade but better than what Arturia did. I hope Novation nails it with a SL 4. I love my SL 3 but there are some things which could be better.
isn't the number of output and input ports a consideration if you want to control multiple hardware instruments? Having multiple 5-pin midi outs or the cv is on the keylabs and the novation sl MK3, but not on the launchpad
Hello, So Novation Launchkey 37 full size keys Mk4 is the same as Mk3? because Im thinking about buying mk4 but the mk3 is droping down the price. Thanks for share this video
I think you should evaluate what software (daw, plugins, etc) you're primarily going to use (download trial versions and see what you do and don't like), figure out your workflow and test if possible (read reviews also) the finger drumming, key bed feel and features that interest you. Try to go with midi controllers based off what's designed to work within the ecosystem you choose. Most major daws have midi controllers that work specifically with them. Keep in mind that your keyboard and mouse is a viable solution also.
This shouldn't be a big surprise, this is a very mature product category. Controllers like these have been on the market for 30 years at this point. Where iterative innovation can still take place is in the software and integration. I'm currently using the Komplete Kontrol S61 MK3 and NKS is lovely.
100% agree. 🎯 IMO, Arturia should be the exception. They make V Collection and had the opportunity to offer deep integration with V Collection VSTs. Instead, as you say, they added superficial trinkets, actually removed features and pads the six year old KeyLab MK2 had, kept the same price and slapped on a MK3 badge. So yeah, not even Arturia could be bothered to innovate. So why should we care? As you say, just buy the key bed you want in the cheapest controller that offers it.
I like the Analog Lab integration with my Essential 61 Mk3 but then Auturia throws the baby out with the bath water with Pigments and bring in a UI that doesn't integrate with their controllers well. I wonder when and what Midi 2 brings to the table down the track. I do like the full size keys on the Essential, was using a Nektar before and the thinner keys were a pain with my big mitts. I do use the controller for track switching, volume adjustment, VST control and the Essential works well with Komplete Kontrol VST host but yeah - better integration with DAWs than yesteryear but still not 100% unless using a specific DAW. Ironic that some of the people at Auturia use Reaper but integration has to be through midi mapping (of which Reaper is great but there are no Auturia DAW template yet). Pick what you're happy with, oh and the new Keylab - 12 pads with bank switching but they are larger pads with better feel.👍 Thanks John for honest commentary on the subject instead of hype. 🙏
Thank you John Mike for your genuine and honest opinion about the current state of these controllers. I've been feeling the same way for quite a long time, after purchasing many myself, always hoping for a new product with the combination of features, I think, are most useful these days, only to see incremental upgrades still lacking those features, at any price. I've always held your reviews in high regard and heartfelt, and found them to reliably reflect the real world of my own experiences. It's refreshing to get the opinion of someone who tells it like it is, rather than talk up a rehashed product as if it's ground breaking. Well done, and I wish you continued support!
Maaaan fr fr…they had a sequel to that one planned called the “Road 88” but they never brought it to market…I tested it at namm years ago…bed felt so good! I hate they never released it
Great point there about MIDI controllers peaking. I think I agree. Quick question: What MAONO microphone are you using and what has been your experience so far? Also on a lighter note, I can actually tell the pro iPhones apart. It's always in the camera bump
@@kerylmcjohnson9537 it’s this one…amzn.to/3zaDpeD and it’s been great it’s what I use for all my live streams…it’s XLR/USB…comes in handy without having to use a physical input
There seems to be a major gap in the market for actual high quality midi controllers. All the big companies are knocking out cheap controllers. We want high, no cost cutting corners
Thank you for the input "Pick one"......? Is Amazon a good option to buy a midi controller from went it comes to budgeting or should i get it straight from the actual company. Ive been looking at Arturia
MPC Keys was the peak for any midi controller. Other than that there isnt much that companies can do to improve anything else besides minor designs changes. Same exact thing goes for phones & tablets. LOL
It all depends on your individual use case. I have the launchkey mk4 (37) and really enjoy it. I got it for the scale/chord/arp features. I submitted a feature request for a modulation feature to let a person explore related scales....and I could see pivot chords being a useful feature. These would be helpful as songwriting supports. That being said, I think a lot of people do clip/sequence-based writing these days where key changes aren't so relevant. Honestly, if notes/scales aren't critical, neither are advanced controllers.
Yes it will get better when Novation wakes up and releases the SL MK4 with all the chords and scales functions people are demanding. I am waiting to buy that baby.
Really appreciate the perspective along with the facts and other reviews. Without concise and for-real reviews on the vantage point of a music producer on products (whether they're an improvement or not) keeps the industry dependent on innovative creativity and less on re-packaging operations for squeezing cash out of loyal consumers.
Agreed. I have kylab 61mk 2 and from what I can tell...they added screen in mk 3 and...i hear pads are usable now? Although...new novation cintroller can sequence directly into abletons piano roll which is a neat functionality. I really wish they released an update for launchpad pro to make it work like that
Honestly, I do use knobs and faders on my Midi Controller to mimic using an analog synth. But at no point have I ever used those controls for controlling the actual DAW. I don't know anyone who does. I wish they would focus the controls on MIDI Keyboards for virtual instruments in mind instead of controlling a DAW. But yeah, we are in the age of Cookie Cutter Controllers. I have a Keylab Mk2, and I hate it because they put the knobs and sliders on the right side of the keyboard. But the keybed is way better than the Mk1 which I upgraded from, so I deal with it. It just seems like nobody can get it right. I honestly think that at this point, you'd be better off just getting a hardware synthesizer that you like, and just using it to play your virtual instruments.
I use Reason Studio and I use the Nektar Panorama P1 and Oxygen Pro to control the mixer and transport of Reason. If you're NOT customizing and mapping out your controller and them making templates in your DAW then just get a Roland A-49 or M-audio keystation. Something barebones.
How does affiliate links work? I never understood it. In the begining of the video do you have to let you followers know inadavnce that its an affiliate links or is it like a sponsered video? Thanks!
I remember my first M-Audio Axiom 25 back in the day the i first discovered Ableton Live 7 from a friend. The Akai 88 with hammer keys and novation with midi exclusive for Live was avail up to now with new versions and many companies making these boards I've settled down but the novation launched mk4 is really nice, I wouldn't of known the features without y'all so i value these videos.
Buddy, clearly you have knowledge about keys. What keyboard you will suggest to someone who wants only good feeling 61 midi keyboard without knobs etc to daw control from it?
Without knobs or anything…just pure keys and a couple of buttons for control I’d grab an m-audio keystation 61…the keybed is a bit clicky on the 61…but the keys are better and less clicky on the 49-key version(different beds) check out the reviews I have of those on this channel!
M-Audio ProKeys Sono 61 fits the description. Semi-weighted full-sized keys with aftertouch. Compact case, no additional knobs. The only problem is that M-Audio retired this model. I’ve sold mine 5 years ago and now regret it. Can’t find anything like it on the market right now.
I swear I am going to build my own controller.. I want one that is similar to what most have now.. but I want a joystick not wheels, I want an xy pad that works well, I want 16 drum pads that are good/on par with MAschines. I want 16 knobs/faders (on a 61 key board) with RGB status (10 on each knob/slider), RGB per key for various uses like chord setups, learning, etc. A slider/finger touch bar for dynamic use, a fatar or on par keybed with per key aftertouch that is durable and can take a beating. Dual screens or a big screen like what Komplet has now. If possible.. ability to swap faders/drum pads so left/right handed players can choose where to put faders/knobs. Give me that.. that is what is not yet available. There are some that offer a few of those.. but no one keyboard offers all this.. and I dont know why. I'd pay $1500 for a quality durable board that offers all this. The nail in the coffin is ability to swap things in/out easily.. e.g. pads, knobs/faders, screen, xy pad, joystick, etc.. so if something breaks.. you can replace it like a PC part.
I’ve had so many midi controllers over the years. In the end I went back to the first gen Arturia minilab for travel, and the Roland Fantom X6 (the keys felt the best and soo many features for midi took many midi controllers years to implement). It just works! The bonus is all the sounds internally when I need to grab something extra. have an akai mpk249 as a back up.
After watching so many videos about controllers, I'd gone on a search for one with the keybed of my dreams. I found nothing better than my Studiologic Numa Compact 2x. This is the video I needed. So, I have decided to stick with my Arturia Keylab MK1 for general practice and use the Studiologic for more specific purposes or gigging. By the way, nobody has ever released a keyboard with better keys than the Yamaha DX7, Korg M1, Korg 01/W, early motifs and Triton. Keybeds quality has been on the decline since early 2000s. Sad. Thanks for everything. The search for the pot of gold has ended.
I've got a Akai 49Key and an Novation FL 49Key. I feel like controllers have definitely reached their peek considering how long ago the Akai 49Key came out.
Your openness about how these manufacturers set up YT influencers (to give favorable reviews) is appreciated. I've watched many of your MIDI keyboard comparison videos and was also wondering why you had stopped producing them. I feel what you said about not being inspired by the same ol' same ol' year after year, that becomes not only boring, but also discouraging. I agree that manufactures are not putting anything worth upgrading to in recent years, and in some cases downgrading their selections! It seems they are just creating these controllers that have a bit of everything as a net in hopes of capturing as much of the market as possible. But unfortunately their "new" models fail to improve previous versions especially in terms of keybeds and keys, the actual parts that make a keyboard playable! I don't believe they have peaked in terms of technology or innovation, but they are definitely not trying to spend more money for these essential and highly desired upgrades. It is unfortunate, because there clearly are several types of people wanting MIDI keyboards; Beginning producers - this is the main market of people that manufactures are going after, as they throw the entire kitchen onto a keyboard. Composers - this market seems to be served well w/ many 88 keyboard offerings all the way to the boutique$$$ level. Players & performers - the market that seems to be constantly ignored! They just want a keyboard with good action and less of the extras; Piano style or synth style w/ (poly) aftertouch depending on the musician. Instead, this group is forced to buy older used MIDI or synth keyboards to have access to these simple expected features from 15+ years ago! It's frustrating to say the least.
I do wish we had more options for MPE/Poly aftertouch. That's the one thing the market is still severely lacking in. Now that NI added poly AT to Kontrol MK.3 I reckon it will start to spread because the competition has to acknowledge it.
My 2009 m-audio axiom 49 was near perfect from a hw feature perspective. Cheap, faders, encoders, buttons, split-able keyboard, aftertouch, expression pedal input was my favorite, full sized 5 pins. There was a super basic LCD display that necessitated keeping the manual around. No daw integration but you could map everything up for as much or little control as you needed. I've been looking for something that isn't $$$$ that has an expression pedal input for so long. It was an amazing feature.
My MIDI controller is a Yamaha MX-49. The synth has a DAW control mode so the knobs on the face can be defined to control specific MIDI messages. I keep looking at dedicated MIDI controllers but the price has kept me away. I do typically use the mouse, but always think it'd be cool to have more knobs (always need more, right?) and pads to trigger samples or for drums (the MX-49 has 4 knobs with bank switching so they're effective 12 knobs, just not all at once - but no pad buttons). I've been thinking the same, MIDI controllers really haven't done anything really innovative, all the "new" features have been around on high end systems for a long while.
The M audio oxygen pro is dope but midi mapping to Logic Pro has been a headache!!! My older midi boards from novation launch key 2 mapped the midi just fine!! What's going on with these newer midi boards???
I’m upgrading to the Novation 49 mk4 from a native instruments kontrol 49 mk2. All the chord, scale and sequencer options build in instead of in the software is a huge upgrade. So yeah I don’t think you have to upgrade from last years version, but there is definitely improvements in these controllers.
Someone actually did write a custom script specifically for Cubase that works very well with the arteria key lab Pro Mark two. I don’t know if it works with the Mark three but I’ve been using it a lot because it has a lot of functionality. But that is a custom script written by one of the users of Q base and the key lab Pro. The out-of-the-box functionality with Cubase is completely broken because of how cCubase uses its midi remote.
I agree with you about the MIDI Controller market. I am a player in the budget controller market as a cheap entry into the software side of the controllers. Often, it is cheaper to catch one of the controllers on sale to access software than to purchase the software outright.
Hey! Love your videos I appreciate your frankness. I want to get a midi to complete my recording station for R&b vocals and i've been super confused. What is your overall recommendation for a midi 150-300 cost that works with Volt 4 (universal) ? With your knowledge base I think you'd have the best opinion❤️
Your title says it all. Reasons why I’ve just stayed with Studiologic SL88Grand (amazing keybed & 4 midi channel workflow) and Nektar P6 (great daw & midi workflow). Everything else I’ve tried is usually not as good. Was hoping someone would make a 49-61 key controller with a true waterfall keybed.
My favorite MIDI controller isn't even a MIDI controller. I use the Casio CT-S1 as a MIDI controller. Casio sells a Bluetooth adapter that allows me to pair it with my iPad and I use my iPad as the sound source. This Casio has my favorite semi-weighted action. It is responsive, very quiet (no click-clack and no bounce), and it allows me to play acoustic piano with nuance. It can run on 8 AA batteries. It has built-in speakers which are really good for practice or for playing with a friend on acoustic guitar (I run an audio cable from the headphone out on the iPad to the "aux in" on the Casio). My one wish is that it had a pitch bend and/or mod wheel.
Yup…I too have been waiting…I have the Roland A88 mkii with 2.0…but it doesn’t really capitalize on anything really…I use it just like any of my other controllers
Agreed. Wish i had just upgraded to a full 88 key stage key and use it as MIDI as well. I bought oxygen pro mini when it was launched. And only to find out that i wont use anything except the keys. Which sucks now im stuck with a 20 somthing set of keys.
I still have the Keylab Essentials 49 and it works fine. I played around with all the other more expensive Arturia controllers but I can’t see the cost justification for an upgrade.
the chord modes on the novation definitly seem a bit more interesting than the arturias. Theres a few new features that seem handy for coming up with chord progressions if you're weak on the keys. Looks like they do have a 49 and 61 too.. But i feel you. They didnt add too much more other than that.
I’m just starting out and I was looking at the options and at the “top” of the market the controllers just get fancier screens the more you spend. Ended up almost buying the Native Instruments with the huge screen, but decided instead on the Arturia because of the neat integration with their own VSTs and the 12 pads… even though I already have an SP404.
Novation Remote SL 37 OG Is still (IMHO) the best midi controller ever made for Ableton Live, i just wish they would bring it out again, exactly the same but with smooth encoders & faders, decent pads an 2 big oled displays over the top just the same. 🙏
In principle, you are really right. But the way Leonard Ray uses his Novation Launchkey really impressed me and motivated me to find out more about it. the combination Ableton and Launchkey is really insane Greetings from Germany❤
A car is a car , steering wheel, 4 wheels, an engine. its all in the details, same for midi controllers. they all look the same, but they all differ. I think
For real i thought i was the only one saying the same thing!! These new midi controllers from Novation and Arturia are lame AF and I am not impressed. There are hundreds of great midi controllers on the market you could get for less! What we really need are sequencers. A new keystep pro with 8 tracks or SL mark 4 both with more outputs and features. I don't understand why they keep rehashing the same crap!
I’m raising my hand to say, “I ain’t that dude”. I don’t use all those bells and whistles. I sometimes use a knob or fader to automate an effect but mostly I only use the keys. Oh, and I still have the iPhone X. I said years ago, like you Mike, all they do is make a new camera and add emojis that no one uses. Thanks for the video. Gianni❤
Thanks for this video! I was thinking of purchasing this newest Arturia 61 Keylab, but after this review I’m not sure anymore. Have you also got a review of the Nektar GXP 61 respectively could you recommend it, if one doesn’t need pads, sliders, etc. Just need good keys, also aftertouch! I‘ve been reading that the keys are very good, maybe the aftertouch not that good.
16:30 - the faders and encoders on the MIDI controllers are generally designed for controlling synth parameters, so it's understandable that it wouldn't work well for mixing purposes. You touched on something important here, which is that companies aren't innovating and that it's all the same! So true, unfortunately. The good news is that MIDI 2.0 brings a whole new level of control, however, as you pointed out, companies aren't innovating to use MIDI 2.0 yet.
I think Keylab MK3 is competitor for Novation SL MK3 not Launchkey MK4. Launchkey MK4 is competitor for Keylab Essentials MK3. After touch keys are still reserved for "premium" models.
Quite capable 4 a lot of DAWs, and doing real integration, not just Hui or whatever. And a big and versatile screen. And focus on tasks, not on software. Mixing. Automation. DAW control, means Midi notes editing. Still 2day very useful. If only Nektarine would be stable enough in our multi-vst world...
@@JayEmII Thank you. I use the P6 mainly with Propellerheads Reason. Man, they fit like hand and clove. BTW. I use multible Controllers to perform multible jobs.
Same thing here. I'm not using faders and knobs, only pads to launch samples. Best midi I've ever had is Keystep Pro. I think that was the peak time for controllers.
I have been on the market for a new midi keyboard for the last week. I saw the mk4 drop at the end of the week amd pulled the trigger amd it arrived today. I will say, the last controllers i have are 10 years old keystation pro 88 and axiom 25.. fhe faders and buttons never seemed to work.. this new keyboard actually controls stuff and the preprogramming with chords and scales is quite a surprise!
Someone needs to make an ultimate MIDI mapping guide on how to map everything to everything in a classic way, and that person gonna ruin the whole controllers industry :D
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@@Johnmike how you feel about midi controllers is how I have always felt. I almost went to studio logic until Nektar finally upped their game, so I stuck with my panorama P6
I’m also having this same exact problem with the new SofTube Console 1 Mk3
Advertising and reviews for it are SATURATING all the internet and UA-cam, but I can barely find anything about the icon pro audio P1-M, for example
I see a lot about the V1-M (the direct competitor to the console 1, in my opinion), but even then nothing in comparison to softube and how there’s clearly been money spent to saturate The information streams
That having been said, I respect they softube is still privately owned, and not swooped up by hedge funds, like everyone else (Arturia and native instruments, as well as plugin alliance are now hedge fund owned)
@@Johnmike the controllers aren't very different from one another but they provide what many musicians want
That's the most important part
The controllers aren't very different from one another but they provide what most musicians want
That's the most important part
As a decades long guitarist getting into synths and midi controllers, i'm not jaded like veteran players. So i'm enamored with what midi controllers can do. My macbook, 61 key midi keyboard, arturia v collection, pigments, logic pro, was less than i've paid for one guitar. And the possibilities with this setup is limitless.
As a fellow guitarist, just letting you know, you can get the Fishman Triple Play midi controller to play polyphonic MIDI from your guitar.
how much exactly you've paid for one guitar?.... 6 grands?
@@djkanyon My Gibson Les Paul Classic was $2k. My midi controller $270, logic pro $200, analog v collection 8 $60, pigments $100, and my macbook $1k, but I already had the laptop before this.
@@blastofo ahh, excluding the laptop, got it!
Lol. That's not a great example, comparing the price of a Gibson Les Paul with this stuff. You can get a pretty good guitar for 300 quid. But you could probably go even cheaper with this, if you avoid apple completely, buy cheaper MIDI controllers and use free software.
I just want a MIDI keyboard with the Fatar keybed with an affordable price. I don’t need bells and whistles and trinkets…
Studiologic Numa Compact 2...not very affordable, but it has a Fatar TP/9, it's simple and it's a bit cheaper than the current flagship controllers. This, together with the forthcoming Behringer's BCR32 controller would make a great pair. Don't you agree?
Get a Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S61 or S49 MK2. NI sells their b-stock really cheap on reverb.
@@Smooveg25 there’s Studiologic made by the Fatar company itself, but I myself am missing the variation in keysized. No Studiologic with 49 keys.
It’s a weird market for controllers
Precisely!
@@Pacman1ac I'm also using numa compact 2 as my main rig for live perform since it has built in audio interface output , which is good enough for live.
Agree 100%. I work as a writer for a large music retailer (170M/y), and I'm the de facto guy for keyboards, synths, MIDI-keyboards 'n such. And for over a decade I'm more or less writing the same things, and I see the same development patterns. First they start with a very basic model (the MK1), then the MK2 adds bluetooth MIDI, then the MK3 adds a new keybed, then the MK4 adds a new display. I mean, anyone with half a brain could've added these together in one model right from the start. But yea, everyone knows the drill. In order tot sustain business, customers need to pay up 100% for each new model for only 5% new features. It was actually shocking when a few years ago I added a fullsize 25-key MIDI keyboard to our shop. Later on I noticed there was an old Yamaha MIDI keyboard, also 25 fullsize keys, which was by then over 10 years already already. It was the same thing! Faders, pads, encoders, transport, the whole thing had the same features. It's just the colors, specific shapes and location which was different - and obviously the software that comes with it. The only somewhat new thing these days is that the traditional USB connectors get replaced by USB-C connectors. Whoop whoop!
My conclusion: the companies are out of inspiration. No one tries anything new, and no one would even know anything new anyway. The evolution is complete, what else is there to add? Even worse: all these company websites look like one big marketing squirt. One really doesn't get the impression that the musical/tech guys are writing all that. It's all fancy fonts, fancy graphics (rather than normal graphics you can actually properly use in retail), fancy frames with fancy texts, but no order in this chaos at all. It takes hours to sort out what's new, just by having to dig through thick layers of nonsense.
The only MIDI keyboard of interest I added recently was the Korg Keystage, because of the keybed by ASM (Hydrasynth). And before that? I wouldn't even know... the whole MPE thing was nice surrounding Roli, but I"m not even sure that vibe has aged well. I guess the Kontakt LEDs from Novation's S-series are nice, though technically I could live without.
I also agree on rarely needing faders/encoders - if ever anyway. In fact, my own MIDI-controller is a Hydrasynth Deluxe, it's a great synth with a great keybed.
With synths it's more or less the same thing, unfortunately. Lots of garage companies with weird expensive synths no one needs, and the traditional companies rehashing the past over and over again. They too are out of ideas. A shift of paradigm is sorely needed. New blood. New ideas.
This is good info and perspective! Thanks for this comment!
The faders are useful to us composer types. Well... COULD be. Most VSTs nowadays you need more than just the mod wheel to control, which is why having faders is so good. But... the idiotic thing is for forever these keyboards usually only allow you to operate in one "mode" at a time, where you can either control the DAW, OR use the faders for CC control, not both. Basically they become useless, because the DAW and keyboard integration is still so crap. It's either proprietary or uses 30 year old integration tech. My 20 year old Roland midi controller could do this better. 😂
Almost every composer I know, therefore, has a Korg mini control 2 sitting on their keyboard for this very reason. 😂
Someone could make a controller with a huge adjustable screen, 16 pads with Maschine-like sensitivity and MPE, keys with MPE, faders, knobs, lots of connectivity, good build quality, top quality DAW control, ability to load VST's within the midi controller by adding storage drives that install the VSTs on them, etc. This would be my dream midi controller, but no one has ever done it. One company has some of the features, but are missing others, and so on.
@@vatolegato But that's not how companies work. To sustain their business, the regularly need to release something new. If they'd put it all into one machine, and if that machine is the ultimate machine, who would ever need the follow-up, a few years down the line? It's in *their* interest to sell *incomplete* products. So they *know* these products are incomplete.
Mind you, I'm not against business practices, we all have to eat. But there was a time in for example synth history when each year (due to a sudden revolution in CPU and RAM performance) you really got a *new* synth. From mono to polyphonic, from analog to FM, from early expensive sampling to affordable sampling, from meager polyphony to large polyphony, from little sample RAM to large sample RAM. As a customer you had the impression that any new synth back then was money well spent. The problem these days is that MIDI keyboards don't really evolve anymore, and then you might wonder what the added value of a new model really is...
DAW software faces the same problems, for that matter.
@@mvsmsx That's a good point. I guess the best way to get what we want is to do it ourselves if we have that ability. But we can always just buy a customized setup. People can still make music regardless of what midi controllers they have.
That USB C on the new Novation like finally. I have no intention on getting any midi controller without usb c at this point
@@Khordmaster A USB C breaks a lot more easily though
Would be nice if they came with a separate/secondary power supply. Using on a mobile device (phone/tablet) uses up its only USB port and prevents the device from being able to charge its battery.
i don't like the USB c connection for live use, not enough meat on the connection for reliability
Why? It’s literally the same thing
Lets take it one step further... Plugins have peaked to! There is nothing new being produced. Just variations of what already exist
The whole industry has peaked…I’ll probably do a video on that soon!
@@Johnmike A hot plugin takes off, and suddenly everyone is copying it and new companies are copying it. LoFi plugins, granular plugins, wavetable synths, etc. It's boring out there at times.
True.
You hit the nail on the head... They've peaked.
IMO the next evolution is for visual/physical feedback, tighter software integration, and workflow-based engineering. Something like a Streamdeck, but integrated into a Midi controller. You're correct, I've never mixed a song using faders on a keyboard MIDI controller. I have mixed songs on control surfaces before, and I prefer it over mouse and keyboard, but only because the control surface is engineered to give me all the visual feedback necessary to navigate a session. This is why products like the Ableton Push are very successful over generic pad controllers... Tight vendor-specific integration and engineering to optimize a workflow that the software offers.
Ever Midi controller vendor needs to here this. If not, they'll continue to capitalize on producing cheap controllers because we keep buying them, and not demanding anything better.
Yup
They need to add motorized faders or proper weighted keys. They aren't evolving. Do these things sell like hotcakes? Cheap guitars and bass have evolved a lot.
I still use Roland Midi Controller from 13 years ago (Roland A500 Pro) and feel content with it (most of mys synths/keys are considered vintage/very old now)... all the functions, buttons, sliders, knobs and keys responds are assigned to what i need in live gig.
as much as i'm a gear addict and want new toys -- the money will go to family and other things that's currently more important..
all i want to say is, there's something rewarding with staying on and learn/keep what you have to serve you the most.. they are just TOOL after all.. the treasure and what matter most is YOU.
I think the real big issue here is that the manufacturers are trying to be all things to all people all at the same time. A company like Arturia with the large array of virtual instruments that they create, should be completely aware of the idea that different virtual instruments require different controllers, it makes a big difference in the way you play an instrument. If you’re going to play a virtual organ, well, it would really be helpful to have two manuals, waterfall keys, and drawbars, or rocker switches. If you are truly going to be playing synth recreations, you need lots of knobs and sliders, you might also need a ribbon controller. If you’re going to be playing a virtual Prophet-VS, or a virtual Wavestation it’s essential to have a joystick. The types and amount of physical controllers that you have really does impact the way you play the instrument. If you try to please everyone with every unit, you’re going to wind up pleasing nobody and exciting no one. At this point, I would love to find a small company that would be interested in building custom keyboard midi controllers for me; maybe then I might actually get unique instruments that I’m excited to play my virtual instruments with.
Same
@@Johnmikeagree fully.
Fully agreed. We have incredible software hammond simulations and no hammond-like controller. I would buy one immediately (there is one, but it costs like an hammond clone...)
As a non-keyboardist I never understood the whole idea of upgrading a keyboard because they felt pretty much the same years ago. If you really want innovation I think you have to look at MPE keyboards. That involves learning how to play with a different level of expression and they may not be for everyone. Otherwise what you already have is probably good enough.
you are right on.. they ARE all the same and no one really uses these to control a DAW beyond perhaps just to start/stop and play tracks.
Eggsactly
I think push 2 is the only one worth using to control a DAW. Too bad we can't get some midi controllers with full weighted keys instead of all the unnecessary features.
@@JamieR You've evidently never used a Launchpad.
This is what i love watching your videos, you keep it real
There needs to be a midi controller that integrates with all the major platforms like NI Kontakt, Arturia, etc. Include a large touch screen, mpe, faders on left side, knobs, drum pads, at least midi 2.0, wireless zero to low latency & after touch.
@@AprilRoxStudios Poly AT at that, but for everything to work properly it’s gonna be 2K
Touch screen? Why?? Maybe a decent sized screen but it doesn't need to be touch. We need about 24 pads or so, 10-12 faders and about 24 encoders. Let me sound design on the controller as if it were a synth
@@AprilRoxStudios M-Audio Hammer 88 Pro was the closest thing to it but yet so FAR so as the Novation SL series if only they made an 88 key version
✋😩🤚
Zero wireless latency is physically impossible, am I wrong?
First time on this channel. I think you hit the nail on the head about the "reviews" and the "shills". I take any UA-camr's "reviews" with a grain of salt. It is very disingenuous to even label something a "review" when the company that sent it to you is controlling the narrative. I have seen some admit that they were asked to make "x" amount of videos, touting certain features in exchange for having the keyboard sent to them. Additionally, I have heard at least 1 in particular say that he couldn't really say a lot of negative things because then they wouldn't work with him anymore. Realistically, these videos should not even be labeled "reviews", they should be labeled as "product spotlight", "paid advertisement", etc because it is paid marketing. In reality, people are suppose to clearly disclose that they are getting the product for free in exchange for their "review", "survey", etc. Many UA-camrs don't do this, but you know it was sent to them because they have the products before launch.
Taetro at one point slipped that he was busy editing a review and then having to send it to the respective company for approval. So much for independence and "unbiased".
@@beatz04 🤔. I just don't like shilling. I am ok with "influencers" doing videos but not presenting them as unbiased "reviews", when these videos are really infomercials.
I just had a look at ricky tinez videos page yesterday, every video is just advertising a different piece of music hardware.. There's only a couple there that are actually interesting.
Most don't have any control though.
You're agreeing with his false opinion, which is not based on evidence.
@@2112jonr I am not sure what your point is. However, If an "Influencer" doesn't have control, than it's not really a "review", it is paid marketing.
The new Launchkey did bring some pretty innovative chord features that look interesting, and I've never been a user of previous chord features. But you're right, with Arturia taking six years to refresh the Keylab and Novation taking four for the Launchkey, we really deserved a lot more.
I'm hoping this disappointing generation is just the result of residual effects of the pandemic on the companies' product roadmap and maybe we quickly get another iteration with the improvements we should have had this year.
See you in two years! 🤞🏽😄
For something 'new' in MIDI controllers, any opinions on MPE MIDI controllers, such as the Seaboard Rise 2? Or how MIDI 2.0 can matter?
You hit it right on the head. These companies need to focus on a really good keybed. That's all we really want. None of the bells and whistles and marketing crap.
I’m still rocking with my Novation SL Mkii. I’ve tried a few others, but always came back to my SL MKii
I love my mkii.
How refreshing is this?!! A man who speaks truth
I just got the 25 mini MK4, it’s dope it’s soo much better than the MK3! I get so fuckin distracted by new products and plugins.
Question. If midi keyboards arent getting any better. But someone was looking to get something for his studio. Would it be better to just buy an arranger/workstation or actual keyboard/digital piano of some sort, and just use it as a midi controller when need be?
@@dannydecanhas3743, if you’re in a studio, then most things you can do on a workstation can be done by some software.
I think there's still a lot of innovation to be done. Infinite encoders, better bidirectional communication and compatibility, Q/A, better build quality, bigger displays, better pads, novel input interfaces. Even things like good poly aftertouch are still extremely rare. Sure, a basic keybed was done over half a century ago. But there's a ton of stuff that can be improved in so many ways.
Hi John, great video. I cannot believe that Arturia does not offer a MIDI controller NOT for DAWs, but one specifically for virtual synths that just has a huge amount of knobs, faders and switches with small, cheap LED screens only for text under them to automap to all of their different synth emulation plugins and most of their parameters, not just Analog Lab. The Keylab range has never been enough to cover all the parameters of even simple synths like the Moog Mini. A controller specifically for actually playing synths. Is that too much to ask for?
I totally agree with you here! We need something that just focuses on that…
@@Johnmike Exactly. Soundforce's SFC-Mini is a good example of that, but lacks a keyboard and mod wheels. Imagine something a bit more robust than that, and add a 61 keybed with poly aftertouch, a small 8x8 LED lit buttons grid (not pads) for live looping/clip pattern sequencer programming, scene buttons and a transport, and you've got yourself something never been made before for V Collection to be fully sequenced for live performances in Logic, Live and FL Studio. Probably would cost around $800+, but I would buy that in a heartbeat.
Thanks for the honesty. It sure feels like they just want to sell more plastic in a new housing that makes everyone excited when the "new" features are a literal daw plugin we already have.
I really don’t understand why not a single one of those new MIDI controllers has MIDI 2.0, MPE, or Property Exchange.
The only new thing for the same price is the Korg Keystage with MIDI 2.0 and Poly Aftertouch!
Technically MIDI 2.0 is still in development, but I agree. There's other synths with PolyAT too such as the ASM Hydrasynth and the Waldorf Iridium. Korg licensed the PolyAT from ASM for their Keystage. The new NI controllers have PolyAT beds by Fatar. Of course none of those are MPE controllers, but there is the Osmose. PolyAT is at least becoming more common which why the Keylab MkIII is a major disappointment.
If take more expressive control over a bunch of knobs and sliders any day.
@@alteredworks I didn't know that it was still in development. I thought that developers were just afraid to innovate with it since it was so new.
@@SomebodyPickaName I didn't know either until I looked into it recently. I guess the core implementation is done, but some things are still getting hammered out. Every time I look into it I find conflicting information.
MIDI 2.0 offers complexity and computing requirements that are not ready for the mass market yet.
Because no one has a use for MIDI 2 which is why few synths support iy either.
Bro I liked your honesty of not selling yourself in exchange of views.
You have a new follower.
John Mike!! Thanks for the video. I'm actually in the market right NOW, for my first midi board, so this was sound advice at the perfect time. 👍🏾
I'm about 9 minutes in..bro they took pads AWAY from the keylab!! only 12 instead of 16!!
Yup didn’t get to point that out
@@Johnmike crazy downgrade.
Sad!😢 Every Midi Controller needs 16 pads and 9 faders
I'm looking to invest in a new MIDI keyboard with 61 keys and have narrowed it down to three options: the Novation Launchkey MK4, the Nektar LX61+, and the Arturia KeyLab Essential. Could you share your experiences with these models? Which one do you think would be the best choice? Additionally, do you have any other keyboard recommendations I should consider? Thanks!
The Keylab 3 is a big fail to version 2. No real innovation here, worst upgrade of all. The Launchkey 4 is a good upgrade in my opinion. I like the new 37 key mini version, if you on the road it is great. The NI 3 is… I don‘t know, not a great upgrade but better than what Arturia did. I hope Novation nails it with a SL 4. I love my SL 3 but there are some things which could be better.
isn't the number of output and input ports a consideration if you want to control multiple hardware instruments? Having multiple 5-pin midi outs or the cv is on the keylabs and the novation sl MK3, but not on the launchpad
For entry-level keyboardists, what would be a good entry-level 61 or 88 keys midi controller?
Hello, So Novation Launchkey 37 full size keys Mk4 is the same as Mk3? because Im thinking about buying mk4 but the mk3 is droping down the price. Thanks for share this video
I think you should evaluate what software (daw, plugins, etc) you're primarily going to use (download trial versions and see what you do and don't like), figure out your workflow and test if possible (read reviews also) the finger drumming, key bed feel and features that interest you. Try to go with midi controllers based off what's designed to work within the ecosystem you choose. Most major daws have midi controllers that work specifically with them.
Keep in mind that your keyboard and mouse is a viable solution also.
Yup!
This shouldn't be a big surprise, this is a very mature product category. Controllers like these have been on the market for 30 years at this point. Where iterative innovation can still take place is in the software and integration. I'm currently using the Komplete Kontrol S61 MK3 and NKS is lovely.
Why are NOT 10 faders standard? ( 9 for drawbars 1 for volume) Why not poly aftertouch ? Midi In, thru and several OUTs ???
@@martinkifmann6177 Aftertouch is gonna be in the next iteration, with another row of pads missing and the MIDI I/O turned mini-TRS 😂
100% agree. 🎯 IMO, Arturia should be the exception. They make V Collection and had the opportunity to offer deep integration with V Collection VSTs. Instead, as you say, they added superficial trinkets, actually removed features and pads the six year old KeyLab MK2 had, kept the same price and slapped on a MK3 badge. So yeah, not even Arturia could be bothered to innovate. So why should we care? As you say, just buy the key bed you want in the cheapest controller that offers it.
I like the Analog Lab integration with my Essential 61 Mk3 but then Auturia throws the baby out with the bath water with Pigments and bring in a UI that doesn't integrate with their controllers well.
I wonder when and what Midi 2 brings to the table down the track. I do like the full size keys on the Essential, was using a Nektar before and the thinner keys were a pain with my big mitts.
I do use the controller for track switching, volume adjustment, VST control and the Essential works well with Komplete Kontrol VST host but yeah - better integration with DAWs than yesteryear but still not 100% unless using a specific DAW. Ironic that some of the people at Auturia use Reaper but integration has to be through midi mapping (of which Reaper is great but there are no Auturia DAW template yet).
Pick what you're happy with, oh and the new Keylab - 12 pads with bank switching but they are larger pads with better feel.👍
Thanks John for honest commentary on the subject instead of hype. 🙏
Thank you John Mike for your genuine and honest opinion about the current state of these controllers. I've been feeling the same way for quite a long time, after purchasing many myself, always hoping for a new product with the combination of features, I think, are most useful these days, only to see incremental upgrades still lacking those features, at any price.
I've always held your reviews in high regard and heartfelt, and found them to reliably reflect the real world of my own experiences. It's refreshing to get the opinion of someone who tells it like it is, rather than talk up a rehashed product as if it's ground breaking. Well done, and I wish you continued support!
Akai MPK88. Had best weighted keyboard and controls for $700. Note repeat on the pads. endless encoders. Transport controls Weighs 75lbs. Love it.
Maaaan fr fr…they had a sequel to that one planned called the “Road 88” but they never brought it to market…I tested it at namm years ago…bed felt so good! I hate they never released it
Great point there about MIDI controllers peaking. I think I agree.
Quick question: What MAONO microphone are you using and what has been your experience so far?
Also on a lighter note, I can actually tell the pro iPhones apart. It's always in the camera bump
@@kerylmcjohnson9537 it’s this one…amzn.to/3zaDpeD and it’s been great it’s what I use for all my live streams…it’s XLR/USB…comes in handy without having to use a physical input
There seems to be a major gap in the market for actual high quality midi controllers. All the big companies are knocking out cheap controllers. We want high, no cost cutting corners
I keep telling nektar they need to add a XYZ pad to their next MIDI controller😅
the only thing that's deterring me from getting the studiologic is the lack of play/record buttons. what's the solution??
Thank you for the input "Pick one"......? Is Amazon a good option to buy a midi controller from went it comes to budgeting or should i get it straight from the actual company. Ive been looking at Arturia
I like Amazon because of that fast shipping
MPC Keys was the peak for any midi controller. Other than that there isnt much that companies can do to improve anything else besides minor designs changes. Same exact thing goes for phones & tablets. LOL
lol I agree
It all depends on your individual use case. I have the launchkey mk4 (37) and really enjoy it. I got it for the scale/chord/arp features. I submitted a feature request for a modulation feature to let a person explore related scales....and I could see pivot chords being a useful feature. These would be helpful as songwriting supports. That being said, I think a lot of people do clip/sequence-based writing these days where key changes aren't so relevant. Honestly, if notes/scales aren't critical, neither are advanced controllers.
Yes it will get better when Novation wakes up and releases the SL MK4 with all the chords and scales functions people are demanding. I am waiting to buy that baby.
I appreciate your honesty, sincerity, and loyalty to us viewers. Great Take man. 100% Correct on everything you said.
Really appreciate the perspective along with the facts and other reviews.
Without concise and for-real reviews on the vantage point of a music producer on products (whether they're an improvement or not) keeps the industry dependent on innovative creativity and less on re-packaging operations for squeezing cash out of loyal consumers.
i only care about best keybed feel/playability, is the mk3 kontrol s61 better than the mk3 keylab 61 or is it a waste of money for a non 'upgrade'
Agreed. I have kylab 61mk 2 and from what I can tell...they added screen in mk 3 and...i hear pads are usable now?
Although...new novation cintroller can sequence directly into abletons piano roll which is a neat functionality.
I really wish they released an update for launchpad pro to make it work like that
Honestly, I do use knobs and faders on my Midi Controller to mimic using an analog synth. But at no point have I ever used those controls for controlling the actual DAW. I don't know anyone who does. I wish they would focus the controls on MIDI Keyboards for virtual instruments in mind instead of controlling a DAW. But yeah, we are in the age of Cookie Cutter Controllers. I have a Keylab Mk2, and I hate it because they put the knobs and sliders on the right side of the keyboard. But the keybed is way better than the Mk1 which I upgraded from, so I deal with it. It just seems like nobody can get it right. I honestly think that at this point, you'd be better off just getting a hardware synthesizer that you like, and just using it to play your virtual instruments.
So what's good piano for someone who wants to learn actual piano playing and after use it for ambient music.
I use Reason Studio and I use the Nektar Panorama P1 and Oxygen Pro to control the mixer and transport of Reason. If you're NOT customizing and mapping out your controller and them making templates in your DAW then just get a Roland A-49 or M-audio keystation. Something barebones.
My MPK49 from 2008: 12 pads, 8 knobs, 8 faders, DAW integration
Arturia Keylab mk3, 2024: 12 pads, 8 knobs, 8 faders, DAW integration
@@Pyroja exactly my point
How does affiliate links work? I never understood it. In the begining of the video do you have to let you followers know inadavnce that its an affiliate links or is it like a sponsered video? Thanks!
I remember my first M-Audio Axiom 25 back in the day the i first discovered Ableton Live 7 from a friend. The Akai 88 with hammer keys and novation with midi exclusive for Live was avail up to now with new versions and many companies making these boards I've settled down but the novation launched mk4 is really nice, I wouldn't of known the features without y'all so i value these videos.
the nektar gx61 is the perfect formfactor for a midikeyboard, if they would just make a version with really good semiweighted keys id instantly buy it
Buddy, clearly you have knowledge about keys. What keyboard you will suggest to someone who wants only good feeling 61 midi keyboard without knobs etc to daw control from it?
Without knobs or anything…just pure keys and a couple of buttons for control I’d grab an m-audio keystation 61…the keybed is a bit clicky on the 61…but the keys are better and less clicky on the 49-key version(different beds) check out the reviews I have of those on this channel!
@@Johnmike Thanks for your help. I will check it out. Best wishes
M-Audio ProKeys Sono 61 fits the description. Semi-weighted full-sized keys with aftertouch. Compact case, no additional knobs. The only problem is that M-Audio retired this model. I’ve sold mine 5 years ago and now regret it. Can’t find anything like it on the market right now.
@@teksisto Thanks for the suggestions. I'll wait and see if I can find a second-hand model somewhere.
I swear I am going to build my own controller.. I want one that is similar to what most have now.. but I want a joystick not wheels, I want an xy pad that works well, I want 16 drum pads that are good/on par with MAschines. I want 16 knobs/faders (on a 61 key board) with RGB status (10 on each knob/slider), RGB per key for various uses like chord setups, learning, etc. A slider/finger touch bar for dynamic use, a fatar or on par keybed with per key aftertouch that is durable and can take a beating. Dual screens or a big screen like what Komplet has now. If possible.. ability to swap faders/drum pads so left/right handed players can choose where to put faders/knobs. Give me that.. that is what is not yet available. There are some that offer a few of those.. but no one keyboard offers all this.. and I dont know why. I'd pay $1500 for a quality durable board that offers all this. The nail in the coffin is ability to swap things in/out easily.. e.g. pads, knobs/faders, screen, xy pad, joystick, etc.. so if something breaks.. you can replace it like a PC part.
The only midi controller I know that has joystick is the Kurzweil KM88
Have you tried the Linnstrument?
thank you for this. it feels the same every year, but also never what I actually want.
Man, you are exactly right! I wish these companies would stop making toys and actually listen and analyse how we work and what we need...
I’ve had so many midi controllers over the years. In the end I went back to the first gen Arturia minilab for travel, and the Roland Fantom X6 (the keys felt the best and soo many features for midi took many midi controllers years to implement). It just works! The bonus is all the sounds internally when I need to grab something extra. have an akai mpk249 as a back up.
After watching so many videos about controllers, I'd gone on a search for one with the keybed of my dreams. I found nothing better than my Studiologic Numa Compact 2x. This is the video I needed. So, I have decided to stick with my Arturia Keylab MK1 for general practice and use the Studiologic for more specific purposes or gigging.
By the way, nobody has ever released a keyboard with better keys than the Yamaha DX7, Korg M1, Korg 01/W, early motifs and Triton. Keybeds quality has been on the decline since early 2000s. Sad.
Thanks for everything. The search for the pot of gold has ended.
I just want a midi controller that plays well and doesn’t crap the bed In two years
I've got a Akai 49Key and an Novation FL 49Key. I feel like controllers have definitely reached their peek considering how long ago the Akai 49Key came out.
Your openness about how these manufacturers set up YT influencers (to give favorable reviews) is appreciated. I've watched many of your MIDI keyboard comparison videos and was also wondering why you had stopped producing them. I feel what you said about not being inspired by the same ol' same ol' year after year, that becomes not only boring, but also discouraging. I agree that manufactures are not putting anything worth upgrading to in recent years, and in some cases downgrading their selections! It seems they are just creating these controllers that have a bit of everything as a net in hopes of capturing as much of the market as possible. But unfortunately their "new" models fail to improve previous versions especially in terms of keybeds and keys, the actual parts that make a keyboard playable! I don't believe they have peaked in terms of technology or innovation, but they are definitely not trying to spend more money for these essential and highly desired upgrades. It is unfortunate, because there clearly are several types of people wanting MIDI keyboards; Beginning producers - this is the main market of people that manufactures are going after, as they throw the entire kitchen onto a keyboard. Composers - this market seems to be served well w/ many 88 keyboard offerings all the way to the boutique$$$ level. Players & performers - the market that seems to be constantly ignored! They just want a keyboard with good action and less of the extras; Piano style or synth style w/ (poly) aftertouch depending on the musician. Instead, this group is forced to buy older used MIDI or synth keyboards to have access to these simple expected features from 15+ years ago! It's frustrating to say the least.
I do wish we had more options for MPE/Poly aftertouch. That's the one thing the market is still severely lacking in. Now that NI added poly AT to Kontrol MK.3 I reckon it will start to spread because the competition has to acknowledge it.
My 2009 m-audio axiom 49 was near perfect from a hw feature perspective. Cheap, faders, encoders, buttons, split-able keyboard, aftertouch, expression pedal input was my favorite, full sized 5 pins. There was a super basic LCD display that necessitated keeping the manual around. No daw integration but you could map everything up for as much or little control as you needed. I've been looking for something that isn't $$$$ that has an expression pedal input for so long. It was an amazing feature.
My MIDI controller is a Yamaha MX-49. The synth has a DAW control mode so the knobs on the face can be defined to control specific MIDI messages. I keep looking at dedicated MIDI controllers but the price has kept me away. I do typically use the mouse, but always think it'd be cool to have more knobs (always need more, right?) and pads to trigger samples or for drums (the MX-49 has 4 knobs with bank switching so they're effective 12 knobs, just not all at once - but no pad buttons). I've been thinking the same, MIDI controllers really haven't done anything really innovative, all the "new" features have been around on high end systems for a long while.
The M audio oxygen pro is dope but midi mapping to Logic Pro has been a headache!!! My older midi boards from novation launch key 2 mapped the midi just fine!! What's going on with these newer midi boards???
Bro I do a lot of MIDI keyboard reviews and you are spot on....it's peaked...
Because of you I bought a series of MIDI controllers for live use with MIDI modules or iPad synths. I designed some sick rigs..Thank you.
I’m upgrading to the Novation 49 mk4 from a native instruments kontrol 49 mk2. All the chord, scale and sequencer options build in instead of in the software is a huge upgrade. So yeah I don’t think you have to upgrade from last years version, but there is definitely improvements in these controllers.
Someone actually did write a custom script specifically for Cubase that works very well with the arteria key lab Pro Mark two. I don’t know if it works with the Mark three but I’ve been using it a lot because it has a lot of functionality.
But that is a custom script written by one of the users of Q base and the key lab Pro. The out-of-the-box functionality with Cubase is completely broken because of how cCubase uses its midi remote.
I agree with you about the MIDI Controller market. I am a player in the budget controller market as a cheap entry into the software side of the controllers. Often, it is cheaper to catch one of the controllers on sale to access software than to purchase the software outright.
Hey! Love your videos I appreciate your frankness. I want to get a midi to complete my recording station for R&b vocals and i've been super confused.
What is your overall recommendation for a midi 150-300 cost that works with Volt 4 (universal) ?
With your knowledge base I think you'd have the best opinion❤️
Your title says it all. Reasons why I’ve just stayed with Studiologic SL88Grand (amazing keybed & 4 midi channel workflow) and Nektar P6 (great daw & midi workflow). Everything else I’ve tried is usually not as good. Was hoping someone would make a 49-61 key controller with a true waterfall keybed.
My favorite MIDI controller isn't even a MIDI controller. I use the Casio CT-S1 as a MIDI controller. Casio sells a Bluetooth adapter that allows me to pair it with my iPad and I use my iPad as the sound source. This Casio has my favorite semi-weighted action. It is responsive, very quiet (no click-clack and no bounce), and it allows me to play acoustic piano with nuance. It can run on 8 AA batteries. It has built-in speakers which are really good for practice or for playing with a friend on acoustic guitar (I run an audio cable from the headphone out on the iPad to the "aux in" on the Casio). My one wish is that it had a pitch bend and/or mod wheel.
Midi 2.0 is coming….So, I have been waiting. That will be a game changer cause of the resolution.
Yup…I too have been waiting…I have the Roland A88 mkii with 2.0…but it doesn’t really capitalize on anything really…I use it just like any of my other controllers
Agreed. Wish i had just upgraded to a full 88 key stage key and use it as MIDI as well. I bought oxygen pro mini when it was launched. And only to find out that i wont use anything except the keys. Which sucks now im stuck with a 20 somthing set of keys.
I want a midi controller with aftertouch drum pads and sliders for daws as well with midi out on a small midi controller
I still have the Keylab Essentials 49 and it works fine. I played around with all the other more expensive Arturia controllers but I can’t see the cost justification for an upgrade.
What are some 49 key midi with good to great keybed? That's all I care about lol
Is a midi controller with a built in interface not possible? Or are they just going to continue making us buy interfaces separately
yup...Irig Keys by IK multimedia check my video here: ua-cam.com/video/F9VgvslulVo/v-deo.htmlsi=cjEEpxhgZYXwjkOf
the chord modes on the novation definitly seem a bit more interesting than the arturias. Theres a few new features that seem handy for coming up with chord progressions if you're weak on the keys. Looks like they do have a 49 and 61 too.. But i feel you. They didnt add too much more other than that.
I’m just starting out and I was looking at the options and at the “top” of the market the controllers just get fancier screens the more you spend.
Ended up almost buying the Native Instruments with the huge screen, but decided instead on the Arturia because of the neat integration with their own VSTs and the 12 pads… even though I already have an SP404.
Novation Remote SL 37 OG Is still (IMHO) the best midi controller ever made for Ableton Live, i just wish they would bring it out again, exactly the same but with smooth encoders & faders, decent pads an 2 big oled displays over the top just the same. 🙏
In principle, you are really right. But the way Leonard Ray uses his Novation Launchkey really impressed me and motivated me to find out more about it. the combination Ableton and Launchkey is really insane
Greetings from Germany❤
A car is a car , steering wheel, 4 wheels, an engine.
its all in the details, same for midi controllers. they all look the same, but they all differ. I think
For real i thought i was the only one saying the same thing!! These new midi controllers from Novation and Arturia are lame AF and I am not impressed. There are hundreds of great midi controllers on the market you could get for less! What we really need are sequencers. A new keystep pro with 8 tracks or SL mark 4 both with more outputs and features. I don't understand why they keep rehashing the same crap!
I’m raising my hand to say, “I ain’t that dude”. I don’t use all those bells and whistles. I sometimes use a knob or fader to automate an effect but mostly I only use the keys.
Oh, and I still have the iPhone X. I said years ago, like you Mike, all they do is make a new camera and add emojis that no one uses.
Thanks for the video.
Gianni❤
Thanks for this video! I was thinking of purchasing this newest Arturia 61 Keylab, but after this review I’m not sure anymore. Have you also got a review of the Nektar GXP 61 respectively could you recommend it, if one doesn’t need pads, sliders, etc. Just need good keys, also aftertouch! I‘ve been reading that the keys are very good, maybe the aftertouch not that good.
I did the GXP88…61 and 49 are the same just less keys : ua-cam.com/video/eizZNMy8au0/v-deo.htmlsi=TQDrQXUXAEschtOm
@@Johnmike Thanks for your answer. Going to watch it now!
Now after watching it, it might be my choice. Sorry that I can’t help your channel when I buy it, because I buy it in Germany!
16:30 - the faders and encoders on the MIDI controllers are generally designed for controlling synth parameters, so it's understandable that it wouldn't work well for mixing purposes.
You touched on something important here, which is that companies aren't innovating and that it's all the same! So true, unfortunately.
The good news is that MIDI 2.0 brings a whole new level of control, however, as you pointed out, companies aren't innovating to use MIDI 2.0 yet.
I think Keylab MK3 is competitor for Novation SL MK3 not Launchkey MK4. Launchkey MK4 is competitor for Keylab Essentials MK3. After touch keys are still reserved for "premium" models.
4 years ago I got myself a Nektar P6 Controller. That thing tic all the boxes for me and I can`t see any reason to replace it at all.
Quite capable 4 a lot of DAWs, and doing real integration, not just Hui or whatever. And a big and versatile screen. And focus on tasks, not on software. Mixing. Automation. DAW control, means Midi notes editing. Still 2day very useful. If only Nektarine would be stable enough in our multi-vst world...
@@JayEmII Thank you. I use the P6 mainly with Propellerheads Reason. Man, they fit like hand and clove. BTW. I use multible Controllers to perform multible jobs.
Wish it had 16 pads, and I'd never thought of anything else
Same thing here. I'm not using faders and knobs, only pads to launch samples. Best midi I've ever had is Keystep Pro. I think that was the peak time for controllers.
I have been on the market for a new midi keyboard for the last week. I saw the mk4 drop at the end of the week amd pulled the trigger amd it arrived today. I will say, the last controllers i have are 10 years old keystation pro 88 and axiom 25.. fhe faders and buttons never seemed to work.. this new keyboard actually controls stuff and the preprogramming with chords and scales is quite a surprise!
Got rid of my midi controllers and got me a Yamaha YC88. Never looked back. Saying a lot of truth there bro 👊🏻 🙏🏻
Someone needs to make an ultimate MIDI mapping guide on how to map everything to everything in a classic way, and that person gonna ruin the whole controllers industry :D