I remember reading Taj Ali’s article on Marsh Farm and getting in touch with him on Twitter to tell him it was one of the best articles I had read in years and at the time he said thank you because he was thinking about packing in journalism, so glad he didn’t because he has gone from strength to strength with Tribune and now he’s on Novara Media! Keep up the good work.
True. I mean 30 years ago we could argue but it didn't stop communication. The issue the last 10 years is the media and now gov't is big on catering to all these groups and there are just too many groups so people fall thru the cracks.
Stop with this we are all systematically being divided nonsense. The majority of Brits voted for Brexit because they had enough of immigration and they are still not being listened to. Native brits want their country to look like Britain and not Africa or the Middle East.
24:17 ~ "There are a lot of good people in our communities. A lot of them don’t call themselves socialist or on the left. And I think that's the mindset we need to have. I tend not to talk about the left needs to do this or tha - I tend to talk about communities and class and individuals.." Nicely balanced view. Enthralling chat with a lot of good ground covered. Thank you both😉
people don't want to associate or use those words not because their idealogy does have conflict with it but because the media has always painted it in a very negative light and those people are usually strawmanned and stereotyped in some way or another. i think you do need some common ideas to bring people together and form communities. i'm not sure "working class" as a label is really any more an effective/better way to do it though. unions themselves are very good starting points of course but back when we had more organised and militant unions no one was scared or bothered to call themselves a socialist like they are today
Thanks. That's a really interesting point. Unfortunately we need a way of differentiating ourselves from the far right, but the problem is they also distance themselves from any such terminology and claim to represent common sense, ordinary values, etc.
@@jasonhaven7170 Yes they are. Look at the Home Office report. Type 1 ie pedophiles working alone are predominantly white but type 2 ie grooming gangs are 83% Muslim.
It's just another form of bullying. They're essentially bullies looking for a cover story for that base instinct. The many lies underpinning misogyny and racism are tools that they exploit to exercise that self indulgence.
The video is more about the asian/muslim working class more than anything else. Last year I went to Bangladesh, literally everybody treated me like a foreigner including my relatives. Unfortunately politicians, the media and even the education system stirs trouble amongst the people.
That must have been really tough, i'm sorry to hear that 💙 I don't know anything at all about Bangladeshi society or politics, but divide and rule has worked for the ruling classes across continents and across centuries.
@@tomb020780 We're all from Sylhet, northeastern Bangladesh, descended from sailors employed in the merchant navy and the East India Company. People in Bangladesh can spot immediately if you're born and brought up in a developed country. Here in blighty we used to face open racism back in the 70's/80's/early 90's, but it's a lot better now.
This comment section is interesting. Sudden surge in many obvious bot accounts, all with the same profile picture and dodgy links in profile. Obvious bots are being directed at this channel in an attempt to discredit it.
Yes indeed. When it first happened there was a story that the cladding on the front of the buildings where miserly there because it made the outside look a bit more attractive for the wealthy people having those areas.
Very good and interesting commentary on the riots although I thought the constant reference to “the far right” was lazy. This group of people seemed far more mixed than this single tag.
An insightful conversation, which explains really well what the stakes are for isolated communities --i.e. the difficulty organizing, and the need to call the police or cooperate despite all we know about them.
Tommy Robinson is a man of his time , the Irish republican movement ended realistically 30 years ago, the UK and Ireland had yet to be changed utterly by mass migration, the British flag the Irish flag the entire system is packaged in old symbols that's no longer represent the places they are proper to represent. The nation state was considered no longer for for purpose in the late 90s , people are now walking up to the fact that sovereign states are a thing if the past 😊
If you could "Hack it" they could as well. The real issue is that a great many homegrown, multi-generational nationals feel such jobs are below them, so they miss out on whatever opportunity they could have made out of those unpopular positions.
18:22... "What you'd call the "petit bourgeoise"". No no no... That's not what I'd call them, nor should anyone else in Britain, those sorts of phrases give you away. The conflation of the left and Islamism should be genuinly frightening to most normal people in this country, no matter what community you live in.
@@isabelcooke3476 no, as having an 19 century political view based in murderous revolutionary ideals. In Mao's cultural revolution it was considered bourgeois to have a pet! There is no room for that sort of language in modern discourse.
You don't seem to have a problem talking about minorities when none are in the room, and you consider your opinions of them completely accurate. How is this different?
The "North East" is a very loose term, there was no trouble in Newcastle, North Tyneside, South Shields or Gateshead all with medium size migrant communities. The areas where there was trouble from from Sunderland down to Middlesborough which has a lot of former mining villages and towns.
You’re so right about the threat that many people feel. My son works in Sunderland and many of his non-white colleagues (NHS staff) were terrified about going to work when all this was going on.
I don't recall many people on the Left speaking out when British Jews were afraid to leave their homes. And I don't recall many on the Left condemning the 'hate marches' for creating an environment of intolerance and intimidation, making British Jews feel unsafe.
35:08 we absolutely need to talk about white flight in the UK because it's insane how it's discussed all the time in relation to America but not the UK where it's heavily in evidence. All those parts of east London that are majority minority didn't get that way because we "displaced them." White people purposely left because they just didn't like living near us.
But Taj made a great argument as to why some communities are segregated. Each community has different needs. A Muslim community is not going to have any need for a pub, and a white British community won't have much need for a Halel butchers. It's a shame they don't therefore live next to each other, but is it 'racism', or is it personal and cultural need? And Taj makes a great point about the things that can bind different people (including work).
White people left not because they didn’t want to live with the minorities, but because everything changed so much around them, like shops, foods, etc, that they felt like an outsider in that area.
An excellent informative discussion, my bone to pick is the title - the discussion was primarily about the Muslim and Asian working class, id take the white out of the title. Which then brings up question have Novara media interviewed a white working class person about the riots because as Taj says dialogue is the way forward, understanding and socialising or working together is the way forward. So id be jnterested in you interviewing a white working class but slso a white middle class reform voter because im seeing aquatintences that i wouldn't call working class stick reform banners up over thier property during the elections or the well known british animal the lion with GB flags on thier social media with save Britain. I think the nuances in thier views and why they feel threatened need to be understood and not just derided as 'far right' to help us move forward. When Taj talks about there being only one white person you can see why thier might be tension for some white folk looking in at the situation, (and we need to remember pre brexit/russias war on Ukraine white immigrants also getting a lot of flack) which goes back to a point raised from the roundtable video "how many generations will it take for non-white people to be considered British?" This i feel is a really important question. Because ive seen time and time again, working jn different places around the world, that the country you have grown up jn has the biggest impact on your cultural habits/thinking, for want of a better word, not your parents culture although that obviously has some impact too. As Ash pointed out jn another video when she shared her thoughts on going back to visit her 'home' in Bangladesh as i think her mother put it. It wasnt her home, it didnt feel like home, the UK is. How do we get those that feel threatened by immigration to realise this is the only home children of immigrants have known - this is very much thier home country too. And research on how long it is before immigrants feel thier new country is home and the process of that transition which i am sure is different in each case, but when we have a large immigration population something that is useful to discuss.
@@riyadougla539 likewise if I went to Ireland, I don't sound like I come from Ireland, I don't have social, cultural references/ mannerism of growing up there - I could learn some cultral heritage like Irish dancing and the Language but I would still be an obvious foreigner. The challenge is how do we get some white British people to realise that. That all people born and raised in this country, regardless of skin colour, heritage or religion are very much made in Britain, and belong here and are part of the fabric of our country - they are Britain. All the best. 🙂
This guy can't catch a break regarding the sound, it seems his mic isn't on/faulty and instead they have used a back up mic. He was on here before but he had sound issues on his laptop
Taj thank you for this! Spot on. This idea that Ash suggested, that the left isn’t in ‘hull’ i.e the north of England, is reinforcing a bizarrely misguided stereotype about the north, overlooking that the majority of people in the north are historically left and continue to be. If people are organised sufficiently on the left in the north is a different question but you might want to look at the role generational poverty and failing infrastructure plays in preventing forms of organisation on the left that exist in London. Just having a functioning bus that you can afford after bills and food is a good starting point.
Douglas murray couldn't make it he was on a dinner date with Dr David starky .both apologise for not being present to speak for the white working class
@@andrewcooper103 If Douglas Murray & David Starkey speak for the white working class then god help the white working class. They don't need racist bigots to speak for them.
@@rothwellaudio Not a prisoner.. i go to mexico every year : )... somehow many years ago i thought Mexico was behind... but... lol.. it is not... TACOS!!!!
"We're a very diverse.... bollocks"... while only picking out Asian and West Indians.... aye aye... sure sure. Otherwise, I think he 'means' well this bloke.
How are any of you two qualified to take about white working class ? It’s like me as a white man talking about black and Asian working class which I know nothing about
They discuss the white working class on the stated premise that they have a lot in common with the black/asian working class. I would have liked this interview to discuss in more detail what they understand that common ground to be, though I know what Ash believes it is: a shared relationship to the means of production and shared material conditions. Black and white alike are all wage slaves and presented with a life choice of either poverty with overwork or poverty with unemployment. That impacts your material life much more than religious or cultural preferences.
To be fair, Ash did try to discuss the loss of shared workplaces (Bradford mills etc) where workers of different races could develop awareness of their common ground and a mutual class consciousness. Taj has just accepted those factories don’t exist anymore and is promoting things like “community meetings” but in the end I think the strongest solidarity between UK ethnic groups will come from workplace organisation. The big challenge is how to organise a working class largely employed in the service sector and gig economy.
Oh dearie me we have all frightened about the split between peoples in our Country. We all have a voice not just one it takes the other, deplomocity means come together and talk. Not one above the other. We are all sorts of people and we will find a way to be equal 😢
The British have replaced natives in North America, yet they want their country back. Well, the natives in the United States, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand want their countries back as well. The UK is failing because of their government. They need to stop blaming foreigners and look at themselves.
So????? Natives in uk , Australia, Canada are facing the same issue?? I don't even understand what you are trying to say??? Two wrongs don't make a right. If you think colonisation and replacement is bad then shouldn't you support the white british.
Do you actually believe the Arabs built the pyramids do you actually think the native Egyptians are Muslims did you ever hear of coptic Christians in Egypt because they are the native, and we know how they're treated well at least I do because I lived in Egypt for over 12 months
I’d like NM to focus on the whole ‘Citizen Journalist’ scene. I feel that pernicious UA-camrs such as Charles Veitch are getting a lot of traction and know exactly how far to push before being shut down or de-monetised.
6:51 come on man, so some guys come out to defend you and they have some beers in their hands and you find that disrespectful, seriously ! That there is exactly the problem, they have a right to drink alcohol in this country, this attitude won’t win you any friends. Remember they came to fight for you and protect your community
The mainstream media portrays anti-fascists as a violent threat exactly as bad as the fascists, like we're all just football hooligans supporting rival teams. Drinking in the street when you have ostensibly come out to support your community and defend them from potential violence does indicate a lack of respect for the seriousness of the situation, and it certainly does nothing to counter the media narrative.
@@ediandroid494 having a drink doesn’t mean someone isn’t serious. If you have a drunk at a business meeting does that mean it isn’t serious. I noted that point and it was offensive. Just as offensive as saying that at a woman’s right protest nobody in hijab should be there as it’s a symbol of patriarchy. If they turn up be polite even if you are to doctrinaire to be welcoming
Although this interview was useful in that it discussed a subject which is at the same time important and yet difficult to analyse and discuss, one problematic idea which came up repeatedly was the strong tendency to refer to posts on social media which you disapprove of as misinformation. The problem there is that if person A regards what person B posts as misinformation, then person B is bound to also regard any post opposing that post as misinformation. There are already more than enough rules about what it is legal to say in public speech. The idea that you should not be allowed to say it in the first place is authoritarian, bordering on fascist.
I'm not the biggest fan of the police in general, but despite what happened in Manchester Airport, over the last few weeks, during the riots, the police have demonstrated that they can be a force for good, and that they need not be an intrinsically racist or anti-Muslim/anti-Black institution, despite their history, because, as Taj has said, for a lot of vulnerable Muslims, migrants and people of South Asian descent, including women, that police presence was essential for their peace of mind and safety. Like I say, I'm intrinsically wary of the police, and I'm instinctively anti-authoritarian. However, this does demonstrate that the police has its uses, and I hope it will also incentivise some people of Islamic and South Asian heritage to consider policing as a potential career path, because I'm not sure ACAB is an option, but a reformed police force, that continues to do the type of work it has done over the last few weeks of far right riots, may be a necessity.
I know that this video is partly about the far right, but this bloke has got rather carried away with saying *right* at the end of every sentence. He said right, about 1000 times.
Fascinating conversation. Cause one of the main criticisms leveled against south Asian communities is they don't integrate. What's coming out of this chat is the economic bases that contributed towards closed off communities. Any literature published to support this ?
Actually I would disagree, Hindus and Sikhs integrate fine . No riots, no grooming gangs, no surges in crime involving them. I would be happy to have lots more in the UK.
@@isabelcooke3476 nice try 🤣 I meant empirical research on the employment of migrants communities by sector and relationships with social integration. Or is that in this polemic treatise as well?!
I appreciate Taj and Ash's argument regarding consistency. As much as I detest the far-right, it's important that our opposition to authoritarian power and control remains consistent, and that we never turn the far-right into martyrs. I don't know how we convert these bigots, but prosecuting people for having different thoughts to us doesn't work, whether it's aimed at the far-left or the far-right.
@@gamerknownfrom whose wallets did that money come from in the first place? The shear HATRED shown towards the white working class is INCREDIBLE. It will be put a stop to, by hook or by crook.
How has your way of life disappeared? I know that my town has altered over the centuries and decades. For instance, once a town of a thousand pubs, taverns and inns, now we’re reduced to six. No one seems to care round here. On the up side, we have more barbers, hairdressers, nail bars and tattoo parlours. Things change.
That's the erosion of working class culture by affordability constraints and middle / upper class tastes and ideology. It's happening everywhere, regardless of ethnic composition.
The way that one feels as a person of colour in London and the South East is the same as in Newyork but when you go to the north of England it's a lot like going to the south of the US.
Except it's more complex than that because the US South was based on slavery whereas all of the UK, including London and Bristol, Southern cities, benefited from the slave trade. London was plagued by race riots for many decades. It's only recently that it's become a much more progressive and accepting place for minorities to live. These Northern cities don't have the same history of diversity and integration as London, even if Black and Asian people have been there for decades, albeit not in the same numbers. Also, in the North everyone is fighting over the scraps, whereas London is relatively wealthy and Black people and white people aren't being pitted against each other for those scraps anymore. They can all co-exist and flourish together.
@@GregOrCreg Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield, Birmingham and Liverpool are big cities with huge ethnic populations. They are not fighting over scraps. Manchester has the 3rd busiest airport in the Uk and most of the BBC is now based there. Channel 4 and PWC have there main HQ in Leeds. They have areas that are just as affluent as London's areas. You can't compare most European cities with London as it's a huge mega world city on par with the likes of Tokyo and New York. If you think Blacks have the same advantages as whites in London, you are deluded lol
@@blackwarb Manchester Leeds Sheffield have a lot of problems with racism especially towards Asian Muslims and the Roma and also tensions between different communities. Such as the issues in Sheffield between Asians and the Roma in Page Hall. I don't know how you can even compare places like Leeds and Sheffield to London. They are nowhere near London in terms of affluence or diversity. As for Manchester it's classed as one of the most deprived cities in the UK and is known for racism outside of a few inner city multicultural enclaves. Birmingham is not in the north and is a lot more diverse than any city in the north. Bradford is probably the only city in the north that is more like the midlands and the south east in terms of its mix but deprivation and crime is pretty high there. .
@@bashash6013 Bradford is now a place where we explicitly promote peace and love in mixed rallies and festivals. Community and union organising is decades and centuries deep, drawing in Irish, Italians and Jews, Ukrainians, South Asians and now people from Congo and Ethiopia. All cheek by jowl in our small city! Since our Bradford riots, we are working together, especially in Friends of Palestine, outside the gatekeepers of the feudal political castes recommended by the mainstream.
@@isabelcooke3476 I know and I'm very impressed with Bradford and the community there. Bradfordians should be very proud of your history of standing up to fascism in all its forms. The city does have issues but then so does London so does everywhere but Bradford has become one of the most inclusive cities in the UK that's why the far right hate it so much just like they hate London.
@@BedOfNettles i believe discussion about immigration would be more indepth with migrants involved the same as discussion about the white working class with white working class ppl involved would also benefit the topic.. theres alot to go around. i feel this is where Novara lacks in variety, especially when appealing to a large demographic of this country that has moved away from traditionally leftist/labour movement roots
I've just made this point. If it was another group, you would insist on having of that group speaking. You would not have a British Asian speaking about the experience of the Black community, and vice-versa. They have actually inadvertently demonstrated one of the main problems we have - which is that the white working-class are not even acknowledged or treated on the same terms as other interest groups. Ali spends most of his time here speaking about issues that are of absolutely no interest to the white working-class in deindustrialised northern communities. They don't care about minority issues or diversity...GB News is genuinely more in touch with working-class issues than Novara.
@@ProfoundThinker-c5z GB News funded to the tune of 60 million quid. How many working class people can afford to fund a T.V channel to the tune of 60 million quid? GB News features rich posh silver spoon fed toffs like Jacob Reece Mogg & Nigel Farage. Since when have they ever been in touch with working class people? You make a good point about speaking to a white working class person but to suggest that GB News in anyway represents the working class is nonsense. I Believe Novara want the best for the working class but GB News definitely doesn't. No Rightwing media represents or cares about the working class.
Do you think its a good look to wander around in trackies with a can of larger while people are hurling bricks and shouting racist epithets around you? Is that what you mean by "casual drinking" ?
@@NaazA-ch6yy It doesn't for most people. Just a few. It's a part of many people's culture, just as tea and coffee are, so I don't think it should be viewed as celebratory or disrespectful.
I am a Brit from London whos lived in the USA for 14 years. I visited the UK 4 years ago and I didn't recognize it. I witnessed much more crime and it was very crowded. I couldn't care less about race or colour. All races and religions have their bad apples. My area had a Muslim community I believe they were mostly Pakistani and Turkish I never encountered any problems. I believe the problem is now that previously people were vetted somewhat before entering the country. People entered legally. Now anyone turns up not only people in need but criminals aswell. The very people seeking safety are probably fleeing from. The government are wankers.
Criminal ( migrants) roaming the streets of UK towns ? If you are sure they are criminals you should know their names. Report them to the police please.
@@Tens8a phone the police and report the crime he’s witnessing, presumably people driving on the left side of the road and doing doughnuts around a circle. Murder rate is a sixth of the U.S.
Expect these headlines: CLACTON COTTAGERS CLAIM 'POSTER BOY FARAGE' AS ONE OF THEIR OWN SAYS MAIL. PROUD CLACTON CONSTITUENTS GIVEN NOVEMBER DATE FOR NIGEL'S NEXT VISIT. TICE REFUSES TO BLACK UP FOR ROLE IN 'CRYING GAME' REBOOT. AND REES MOGG HOMELESS AFTER CARELESS COFFIN FIRE. Thank you.
The truth about the white working class is that despite their concerns they were told their country wouldn't change or be taken over but it has. This is the same for Can, US, France as well.
My gym/spa where I go in hours after work by vast majority are filled with peoples speaking ten or so different languages. Many happen to be light colored but many hindu and asian as well. About a third each. It is a very expensive place only well off people manage, BMW's teslas those type things in the lot. I married of color all all my kids and grandkids are of color. But those jobs it does not depend on what third it is, they are jobs not held by natives here. The way to manage poverty in other places is not to continue the places in poverty but to help them improve them ,so they will not move here. This place sucks, they move here because of the jobs, not as they like leaving their homelands. Charity by assistance to them in their homelands is the key. It will take the mass migrations of the south to the north by billions, for us to get that unfortunately. Exporting their poverty to our places is not the solution. Removing their poverty where they live is the solution. You are led to charity or this is you end. You are going to be forced to help other nations or live as they do.
@@ronhumphreys3762 I'm not sure you do that by clamping down on freedom of movement (i.e. migration). However, I do agree that from an environmental and sustainable POV, we need to make better use of the world's land. Some places will become less inhabitable because of global warming (see parts of Africa), but other places could be sustainable if it wasn't for war and systemic oppression (i.e. man-made issues that can potentially be rectified).
@@GregOrCreg It is not the clamping down on freedom of movement. Our biased view is our place is better and people just want to move here. Hence it is always discussed in this context clamping down. It is not clamping down. They move here as our exploitive practices make it a necessity. They like where they were born and more here as economically and safety wise it is impossible there any more. The Ukraine 174K here ,because we helped upset the elected president and performed a coup. The coup leaders had H type tendencies and the peoples in russia parts picked up on that and some formed their own place then to the russians, for protection, ,and some stayed in the ukraine but revolted. WE caused all that. A balance of power existed between eastern and western ukraine ,the president was the result and we did not like his choices in economy so we removed him by coup. One place and one example 174K that. It is not they wanted the UK it was they were forced to the Uk by our circumstances created. We could have worked to help their economy so they would favor the west by overt aid, what did we do...a coup. Afghanistan 20 years of american control did they even have a shred of health care...none covid they were on their own. This is the change we need, it is not clamping down.
The natives in America and canada didn't think thier nations would change or be taken over either, but you don't see them complaining about immigration. Maybe the members of the white working class you speak of should grow up and realise that they exist in the context of several globe spanning empires. The "invasions" and "changes" we're facing in our countries are completely peaceful compared to ones our ancestors forced upon the forefathers of the immigrants you fear. Change and migration are natural parts of the wheel of history. We don't get to demand stagnation after foisting so much change on the world. When you've been in the driver's seat for several hundred years, it seems silly to complain about the passengers you've taken for a ride, and the destination to which you've arrived
I remember reading Taj Ali’s article on Marsh Farm and getting in touch with him on Twitter to tell him it was one of the best articles I had read in years and at the time he said thank you because he was thinking about packing in journalism, so glad he didn’t because he has gone from strength to strength with Tribune and now he’s on Novara Media! Keep up the good work.
We are all systematically being divided at every turn and we have no chance at unity because its been happening since 1st grade .
True. I mean 30 years ago we could argue but it didn't stop communication. The issue the last 10 years is the media and now gov't is big on catering to all these groups and there are just too many groups so people fall thru the cracks.
Stop with this we are all systematically being divided nonsense. The majority of Brits voted for Brexit because they had enough of immigration and they are still not being listened to. Native brits want their country to look like Britain and not Africa or the Middle East.
That has been happening since the inception of the monarchy / British empire.
People wanted division for headlines, and catch phrases to spread hate, the media need to hold themselves responsible for this mess
Yes, but the differences are real, and not merely imaginary.
24:17 ~
"There are a lot of good people in our communities. A lot of them don’t call themselves socialist or on the left. And I think that's the mindset we need to have. I tend not to talk about the left needs to do this or tha - I tend to talk about communities and class and individuals.."
Nicely balanced view.
Enthralling chat with a lot of good ground covered. Thank you both😉
people don't want to associate or use those words not because their idealogy does have conflict with it but because the media has always painted it in a very negative light and those people are usually strawmanned and stereotyped in some way or another. i think you do need some common ideas to bring people together and form communities. i'm not sure "working class" as a label is really any more an effective/better way to do it though. unions themselves are very good starting points of course but back when we had more organised and militant unions no one was scared or bothered to call themselves a socialist like they are today
Thanks. That's a really interesting point. Unfortunately we need a way of differentiating ourselves from the far right, but the problem is they also distance themselves from any such terminology and claim to represent common sense, ordinary values, etc.
Very impressed by Taj Ali what he says about rise of misogyny and its use by the far right is spot on.
He could do with addressing the Muslim grooming gangs. The more it is buried, the more resentment you are going to cause.
@@GordonFlash1983 The vast majority of grooming gangs aren't Muslim.
@@jasonhaven7170 Yes they are. Look at the Home Office report. Type 1 ie pedophiles working alone are predominantly white but type 2 ie grooming gangs are 83% Muslim.
@@jasonhaven7170 but they ARE protected, along with grooming gangs in positions of power, enabling them to continue.
It's just another form of bullying. They're essentially bullies looking for a cover story for that base instinct. The many lies underpinning misogyny and racism are tools that they exploit to exercise that self indulgence.
Really compassionate discussion and why we shouldn't label all white working class ppl as the same
Exactly. Many are opposed to Tories and the Far Right, and Starmer's anti-Left stance.
People.
It's saddening when Marxists somehow manage to forget the difference between proletariat and lumpenproletariat.
@@vitalyl1327 Which one were the "protestors"?
@@jasonhaven7170 lumpens, obviously.
Taj offers insight, analysis, and real experience at community organizing. Please get him back often.
Poverty brings out the worst of people. The filthy rich are laughing at the divided poor.
Its not poverty, its losers begging to live with us.
Nope! Identity politics brings out the worst in people.
One rioter went on holiday to Dubai before returning for sentencing.
@@ImBABYJANEHUDSON Class is an identity
Taj Ali is aamazing, please ask him if he'd like to contribute regularly.
@@blackwarb I understood everything he said fine. And there's nothing wrong with speaking in broken English 🙂
dudes based as shit.
The video is more about the asian/muslim working class more than anything else. Last year I went to Bangladesh, literally everybody treated me like a foreigner including my relatives. Unfortunately politicians, the media and even the education system stirs trouble amongst the people.
That must have been really tough, i'm sorry to hear that 💙
I don't know anything at all about Bangladeshi society or politics, but divide and rule has worked for the ruling classes across continents and across centuries.
@@tomb020780
Hi are you white?
@@tomb020780 We're all from Sylhet, northeastern Bangladesh, descended from sailors employed in the merchant navy and the East India Company. People in Bangladesh can spot immediately if you're born and brought up in a developed country. Here in blighty we used to face open racism back in the 70's/80's/early 90's, but it's a lot better now.
@@RileEren yes
Great convo, really helpful for a middle aged white middle class dude to absorb 😊 thanks Ash x
This was a brilliant discussion. Had never heard of Taj Ali before this. Very impressive guy. Please, more of Taj.
What a wonderful conversation! Thank you so much!
I remember the days of the NF racists have always been there
It’s so good to hear someone say that they need to look at something it more detail before making a comment. What a wonderful idea.
This comment section is interesting. Sudden surge in many obvious bot accounts, all with the same profile picture and dodgy links in profile. Obvious bots are being directed at this channel in an attempt to discredit it.
Downvote them so their posts slip to the bottom and ignore them. That's what I do most of the time.
Happening lot other channels
Calling opponents far right is straight out of Communists play book
@@LeeEnzo-d6u Burning down buildings specifically because there are brown people in them is not far right?
Oh my ! … any different opinion must be a ‘bot ‘ … about sums it all up !
What a seriously impressive young man !!
thats a female
Grenfell is only a stones throw from Holland park, two totally different communities next door to each other.
Yes indeed. When it first happened there was a story that the cladding on the front of the buildings where miserly there because it made the outside look a bit more attractive for the wealthy people having those areas.
People wanted division for headlines, and catch phrases to spread hate, the media need to hold themselves responsible for this mess
A very thought-provoking interview. Well worth watching.
why are the racists always the fastest to comment 😂
"racist"
Because, like this channel, they don’t like the native Brits.
yes you seem to be up the top here
😮
Because a lot of them are bot agitator accounts.
Thank you for covering this. It is so important left wing activists and not just politicians and academics get a platform.
Very good and interesting commentary on the riots although I thought the constant reference to “the far right” was lazy. This group of people seemed far more mixed than this single tag.
Well done Taj, you did a great job.
Ash seems to get excited contemplating the prospects of widening inter-communal violence
An insightful conversation, which explains really well what the stakes are for isolated communities --i.e. the difficulty organizing, and the need to call the police or cooperate despite all we know about them.
Really inspiring to hear someone do such fantastic work, yes Taj Ali!
I'm Irish. We do not claim Tommy.
Nothing is funnier than an Irish man,of all people, being a British patriot
Tommy Robinson is a man of his time , the Irish republican movement ended realistically 30 years ago, the UK and Ireland had yet to be changed utterly by mass migration, the British flag the Irish flag the entire system is packaged in old symbols that's no longer represent the places they are proper to represent. The nation state was considered no longer for for purpose in the late 90s , people are now walking up to the fact that sovereign states are a thing if the past 😊
Thank you for this 🙏🏼
Brilliant talk, Taj. It's so important the Left looks critically at itself to fight the far right effectively.
Yet you're sympathetic to the far right?
@@RileEren No. Where do you get that from?
Thanks Taj! Great interview!!
They had been told that there would be no room in the prison system and community service or heavy fines would be the worst.
If you could "Hack it" they could as well. The real issue is that a great many homegrown, multi-generational nationals feel such jobs are below them, so they miss out on whatever opportunity they could have made out of those unpopular positions.
Ash amazing as ever good interview with Taj
18:22... "What you'd call the "petit bourgeoise"". No no no... That's not what I'd call them, nor should anyone else in Britain, those sorts of phrases give you away. The conflation of the left and Islamism should be genuinly frightening to most normal people in this country, no matter what community you live in.
Give you away as having a wider analysis?!
@@isabelcooke3476 no, as having an 19 century political view based in murderous revolutionary ideals. In Mao's cultural revolution it was considered bourgeois to have a pet! There is no room for that sort of language in modern discourse.
@@matthewnunn6594mao doesn’t have a monopoly on the word “bourgeoisie”
Wouldn't it have been better to get a white working class person on to talk about themselves. This is an outsider looking in.
Exactly.
You don't seem to have a problem talking about minorities when none are in the room, and you consider your opinions of them completely accurate. How is this different?
Well said.
EXACTLY!!!! White Working Class people actually have a lot to say about White Working Class people.
@@BedOfNettles that's a lot of assumptions about me. How dis you come up with that?
Now he's blaming Elon Musk!! 🤔Ha.. straight from the playbook.🤯Yes, Taj, thanks for joining us. Illuminating.
The "North East" is a very loose term, there was no trouble in Newcastle, North Tyneside, South Shields or Gateshead all with medium size migrant communities. The areas where there was trouble from from Sunderland down to Middlesborough which has a lot of former mining villages and towns.
You’re so right about the threat that many people feel. My son works in Sunderland and many of his non-white colleagues (NHS staff) were terrified about going to work when all this was going on.
I don't recall many people on the Left speaking out when British Jews were afraid to leave their homes. And I don't recall many on the Left condemning the 'hate marches' for creating an environment of intolerance and intimidation, making British Jews feel unsafe.
@ProfoundThinker-c5z.
You think the far right care about Jews?
@@ProfoundThinker-c5z The ones Michael Rosen went on?
It was a great conversation between two clever people. Ali's over-usage of the word 'right' was a little annoying.
35:08 we absolutely need to talk about white flight in the UK because it's insane how it's discussed all the time in relation to America but not the UK where it's heavily in evidence. All those parts of east London that are majority minority didn't get that way because we "displaced them." White people purposely left because they just didn't like living near us.
But Taj made a great argument as to why some communities are segregated. Each community has different needs. A Muslim community is not going to have any need for a pub, and a white British community won't have much need for a Halel butchers. It's a shame they don't therefore live next to each other, but is it 'racism', or is it personal and cultural need? And Taj makes a great point about the things that can bind different people (including work).
White people left not because they didn’t want to live with the minorities, but because everything changed so much around them, like shops, foods, etc, that they felt like an outsider in that area.
Also the idea east London has no white people is a bit mad if you’ve walked through it in 2024 😂 they’re all moving back if anything
More of a class thing
@@GregOrCregThere is no such thing as white British culture.
IN-SIGHT-FUL! How lucky we are to have ppl like Taj Ali in our society. And of course, Ash.
England, not the 'UK'.
Not happening in Ireland then
He understands , very knowledgeable and streetwise. Even coy around ash's line of questions.
Hear, hear and we’ll said Taj Ali,
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
we need more non whites to talk about the white working class!!
Sounds like cultural appropriation...
😂😂😂 Yeah they really understand us 🙄
Try Morgoth, Steve Laws or Jonathan Bowden. If you want to understand just listen to them
An excellent informative discussion, my bone to pick is the title - the discussion was primarily about the Muslim and Asian working class, id take the white out of the title. Which then brings up question have Novara media interviewed a white working class person about the riots because as Taj says dialogue is the way forward, understanding and socialising or working together is the way forward. So id be jnterested in you interviewing a white working class but slso a white middle class reform voter because im seeing aquatintences that i wouldn't call working class stick reform banners up over thier property during the elections or the well known british animal the lion with GB flags on thier social media with save Britain. I think the nuances in thier views and why they feel threatened need to be understood and not just derided as 'far right' to help us move forward.
When Taj talks about there being only one white person you can see why thier might be tension for some white folk looking in at the situation, (and we need to remember pre brexit/russias war on Ukraine white immigrants also getting a lot of flack) which goes back to a point raised from the roundtable video "how many generations will it take for non-white people to be considered British?"
This i feel is a really important question. Because ive seen time and time again, working jn different places around the world, that the country you have grown up jn has the biggest impact on your cultural habits/thinking, for want of a better word, not your parents culture although that obviously has some impact too. As Ash pointed out jn another video when she shared her thoughts on going back to visit her 'home' in Bangladesh as i think her mother put it. It wasnt her home, it didnt feel like home, the UK is. How do we get those that feel threatened by immigration to realise this is the only home children of immigrants have known - this is very much thier home country too. And research on how long it is before immigrants feel thier new country is home and the process of that transition which i am sure is different in each case, but when we have a large immigration population something that is useful to discuss.
I went to Bangladesh last year, everyone including my cousins treated me like a foreigner. Britain is all I know.
@@riyadougla539 likewise if I went to Ireland, I don't sound like I come from Ireland, I don't have social, cultural references/ mannerism of growing up there - I could learn some cultral heritage like Irish dancing and the Language but I would still be an obvious foreigner.
The challenge is how do we get some white British people to realise that. That all people born and raised in this country, regardless of skin colour, heritage or religion are very much made in Britain, and belong here and are part of the fabric of our country - they are Britain.
All the best. 🙂
@@riyadougla539If you want to be white they will treat you differently.
@@RileEren What do you mean? They don't see the difference between me and a white person?
This guy can't catch a break regarding the sound, it seems his mic isn't on/faulty and instead they have used a back up mic. He was on here before but he had sound issues on his laptop
Yes thats the main thing I took away from this. Well spotted
great discussion, impressive guest
Suella Brave man the Asian ignoring hatred, would she ever face the music
Taj thank you for this! Spot on.
This idea that Ash suggested, that the left isn’t in ‘hull’ i.e the north of England, is reinforcing a bizarrely misguided stereotype about the north, overlooking that the majority of people in the north are historically left and continue to be. If people are organised sufficiently on the left in the north is a different question but you might want to look at the role generational poverty and failing infrastructure plays in preventing forms of organisation on the left that exist in London. Just having a functioning bus that you can afford after bills and food is a good starting point.
Where's the white working class representation in this video?
Douglas murray couldn't make it he was on a dinner date with Dr David starky .both apologise for not being present to speak for the white working class
@@andrewcooper103 If Douglas Murray & David Starkey speak for the white working class then god help the white working class. They don't need racist bigots to speak for them.
@@andrewcooper103
What does douglas murray have to do with this?
What's wrong with having a beer in your hand near some women wearing hijabs?
Then why are you complaining about pakistani gangs with white English girls?
@RileEren Where have I complained about that and how is that relevant?
i am mexican living in Scotland.. this island is fucked up... take me to Yucatan!!
que tal amigo, take me with you
Ach yer fine in Scotland. Just keep your wits about ye on Old Firm match days
I presume you're not a prisoner here. You're free to go to Yucatan, but you'll have to take yourself.
@@DouglasCarnall Scotland always good... i love it.. just miss the sunshine : )
@@rothwellaudio Not a prisoner.. i go to mexico every year : )... somehow many years ago i thought Mexico was behind... but... lol.. it is not... TACOS!!!!
I love coming here for a different perspective
"We're a very diverse.... bollocks"... while only picking out Asian and West Indians.... aye aye... sure sure. Otherwise, I think he 'means' well this bloke.
Calm your racism.
How are any of you two qualified to take about white working class ? It’s like me as a white man talking about black and Asian working class which I know nothing about
They discuss the white working class on the stated premise that they have a lot in common with the black/asian working class. I would have liked this interview to discuss in more detail what they understand that common ground to be, though I know what Ash believes it is: a shared relationship to the means of production and shared material conditions. Black and white alike are all wage slaves and presented with a life choice of either poverty with overwork or poverty with unemployment. That impacts your material life much more than religious or cultural preferences.
To be fair, Ash did try to discuss the loss of shared workplaces (Bradford mills etc) where workers of different races could develop awareness of their common ground and a mutual class consciousness. Taj has just accepted those factories don’t exist anymore and is promoting things like “community meetings” but in the end I think the strongest solidarity between UK ethnic groups will come from workplace organisation. The big challenge is how to organise a working class largely employed in the service sector and gig economy.
Oh dearie me we have all frightened about the split between peoples in our Country. We all have a voice not just one it takes the other, deplomocity means come together and talk. Not one above the other. We are all sorts of people and we will find a way to be equal 😢
Thanks for the discussion. Agree with the need for people of different races and classes to work together against racism and disinformation.
Yes Taj ...one love brother
PEACE 🎉❤
The British have replaced natives in North America, yet they want their country back. Well, the natives in the United States, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand want their countries back as well. The UK is failing because of their government. They need to stop blaming foreigners and look at themselves.
So?????
Natives in uk , Australia, Canada are facing the same issue??
I don't even understand what you are trying to say???
Two wrongs don't make a right. If you think colonisation and replacement is bad then shouldn't you support the white british.
So maybe we should all leave and return to our wonderful motherlands. The U.K. belongs to the indigenous population.
The Arabs replaced native Africans in North Africa funny how no one talks about that.
Do you actually believe the Arabs built the pyramids do you actually think the native Egyptians are Muslims did you ever hear of coptic Christians in Egypt because they are the native, and we know how they're treated well at least I do because I lived in Egypt for over 12 months
@@anthonymullen6300
No you didn't.
Distribution centers are in part the new factories because the overall theme of the masses is consumption. DCs will always have high turn over.
Great interview, Ash!
Mass immigration,we were never asked.Also freedom for Gazza.
I’d like NM to focus on the whole ‘Citizen Journalist’ scene. I feel that pernicious UA-camrs such as Charles Veitch are getting a lot of traction and know exactly how far to push before being shut down or de-monetised.
Tommy Robinson is English, with Irish ancestry, he's a result of British or English culture.
6:51 come on man, so some guys come out to defend you and they have some beers in their hands and you find that disrespectful, seriously ! That there is exactly the problem, they have a right to drink alcohol in this country, this attitude won’t win you any friends. Remember they came to fight for you and protect your community
The mainstream media portrays anti-fascists as a violent threat exactly as bad as the fascists, like we're all just football hooligans supporting rival teams. Drinking in the street when you have ostensibly come out to support your community and defend them from potential violence does indicate a lack of respect for the seriousness of the situation, and it certainly does nothing to counter the media narrative.
@@ediandroid494 having a drink doesn’t mean someone isn’t serious. If you have a drunk at a business meeting does that mean it isn’t serious. I noted that point and it was offensive. Just as offensive as saying that at a woman’s right protest nobody in hijab should be there as it’s a symbol of patriarchy. If they turn up be polite even if you are to doctrinaire to be welcoming
Great interview. Taj Ali has been doing tremendous work for the community.
spot on,,great video folks,great to hear discussion on tactics and analysis
What taj has discussed is absolutely correct about the left and how they approach black and brown communities !
Although this interview was useful in that it discussed a subject which is at the same time important and yet difficult to analyse and discuss, one problematic idea which came up repeatedly was the strong tendency to refer to posts on social media which you disapprove of as misinformation. The problem there is that if person A regards what person B posts as misinformation, then person B is bound to also regard any post opposing that post as misinformation. There are already more than enough rules about what it is legal to say in public speech. The idea that you should not be allowed to say it in the first place is authoritarian, bordering on fascist.
I'm not the biggest fan of the police in general, but despite what happened in Manchester Airport, over the last few weeks, during the riots, the police have demonstrated that they can be a force for good, and that they need not be an intrinsically racist or anti-Muslim/anti-Black institution, despite their history, because, as Taj has said, for a lot of vulnerable Muslims, migrants and people of South Asian descent, including women, that police presence was essential for their peace of mind and safety.
Like I say, I'm intrinsically wary of the police, and I'm instinctively anti-authoritarian. However, this does demonstrate that the police has its uses, and I hope it will also incentivise some people of Islamic and South Asian heritage to consider policing as a potential career path, because I'm not sure ACAB is an option, but a reformed police force, that continues to do the type of work it has done over the last few weeks of far right riots, may be a necessity.
I know that this video is partly about the far right, but this bloke has got rather carried away with saying *right* at the end of every sentence. He said right, about 1000 times.
Probably just nerves, don't you think?
Fascinating conversation. Cause one of the main criticisms leveled against south Asian communities is they don't integrate. What's coming out of this chat is the economic bases that contributed towards closed off communities. Any literature published to support this ?
Actually I would disagree, Hindus and Sikhs integrate fine . No riots, no grooming gangs, no surges in crime involving them. I would be happy to have lots more in the UK.
The Communist Manifesto?
@@isabelcooke3476 nice try 🤣 I meant empirical research on the employment of migrants communities by sector and relationships with social integration. Or is that in this polemic treatise as well?!
I appreciate Taj and Ash's argument regarding consistency. As much as I detest the far-right, it's important that our opposition to authoritarian power and control remains consistent, and that we never turn the far-right into martyrs. I don't know how we convert these bigots, but prosecuting people for having different thoughts to us doesn't work, whether it's aimed at the far-left or the far-right.
The far right - the people like me in Blackburnistan that have seen in their lifetime their environment & way of life disappear
Missing the £64m EU investment into East Lancashire?
sounds like you have a problem with neoliberalism? Why would that inspire you to support of racist rioting?
@@gamerknownfrom whose wallets did that money come from in the first place? The shear HATRED shown towards the white working class is INCREDIBLE. It will be put a stop to, by hook or by crook.
How has your way of life disappeared? I know that my town has altered over the centuries and decades. For instance, once a town of a thousand pubs, taverns and inns, now we’re reduced to six. No one seems to care round here.
On the up side, we have more barbers, hairdressers, nail bars and tattoo parlours. Things change.
That's the erosion of working class culture by affordability constraints and middle / upper class tastes and ideology. It's happening everywhere, regardless of ethnic composition.
Really interesting interview
The lion from Urai ke has more roghts and air coverage than the gdnocide in Gaza.
The rioting in England and Northern Ireland ( re NI which is due to settler colonialism).
The way that one feels as a person of colour in London and the South East is the same as in Newyork but when you go to the north of England it's a lot like going to the south of the US.
Except it's more complex than that because the US South was based on slavery whereas all of the UK, including London and Bristol, Southern cities, benefited from the slave trade.
London was plagued by race riots for many decades. It's only recently that it's become a much more progressive and accepting place for minorities to live. These Northern cities don't have the same history of diversity and integration as London, even if Black and Asian people have been there for decades, albeit not in the same numbers. Also, in the North everyone is fighting over the scraps, whereas London is relatively wealthy and Black people and white people aren't being pitted against each other for those scraps anymore. They can all co-exist and flourish together.
@@GregOrCreg Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield, Birmingham and Liverpool are big cities with huge ethnic populations. They are not fighting over scraps. Manchester has the 3rd busiest airport in the Uk and most of the BBC is now based there. Channel 4 and PWC have there main HQ in Leeds. They have areas that are just as affluent as London's areas. You can't compare most European cities with London as it's a huge mega world city on par with the likes of Tokyo and New York. If you think Blacks have the same advantages as whites in London, you are deluded lol
@@blackwarb Manchester Leeds Sheffield have a lot of problems with racism especially towards Asian Muslims and the Roma and also tensions between different communities. Such as the issues in Sheffield between Asians and the Roma in Page Hall. I don't know how you can even compare places like Leeds and Sheffield to London. They are nowhere near London in terms of affluence or diversity. As for Manchester it's classed as one of the most deprived cities in the UK and is known for racism outside of a few inner city multicultural enclaves. Birmingham is not in the north and is a lot more diverse than any city in the north. Bradford is probably the only city in the north that is more like the midlands and the south east in terms of its mix but deprivation and crime is pretty high there. .
@@bashash6013 Bradford is now a place where we explicitly promote peace and love in mixed rallies and festivals. Community and union organising is decades and centuries deep, drawing in Irish, Italians and Jews, Ukrainians, South Asians and now people from Congo and Ethiopia. All cheek by jowl in our small city! Since our Bradford riots, we are working together, especially in Friends of Palestine, outside the gatekeepers of the feudal political castes recommended by the mainstream.
@@isabelcooke3476 I know and I'm very impressed with Bradford and the community there. Bradfordians should be very proud of your history of standing up to fascism in all its forms. The city does have issues but then so does London so does everywhere but Bradford has become one of the most inclusive cities in the UK that's why the far right hate it so much just like they hate London.
you cant really sit here and talk about the white working class without someone representing the white working class
Calling opponents far right is straight out of Communists play book
Plenty of people sit talk about migrants without someone representing migrants in the room, but of course you're completely fine with that.
@@BedOfNettles i believe discussion about immigration would be more indepth with migrants involved the same as discussion about the white working class with white working class ppl involved would also benefit the topic.. theres alot to go around.
i feel this is where Novara lacks in variety, especially when appealing to a large demographic of this country that has moved away from traditionally leftist/labour movement roots
I've just made this point. If it was another group, you would insist on having of that group speaking. You would not have a British Asian speaking about the experience of the Black community, and vice-versa.
They have actually inadvertently demonstrated one of the main problems we have - which is that the white working-class are not even acknowledged or treated on the same terms as other interest groups.
Ali spends most of his time here speaking about issues that are of absolutely no interest to the white working-class in deindustrialised northern communities. They don't care about minority issues or diversity...GB News is genuinely more in touch with working-class issues than Novara.
@@ProfoundThinker-c5z GB News funded to the tune of 60 million quid. How many working class people can afford to fund a T.V channel to the tune of 60 million quid? GB News features rich posh silver spoon fed toffs like Jacob Reece Mogg & Nigel Farage. Since when have they ever been in touch with working class people? You make a good point about speaking to a white working class person but to suggest that GB News in anyway represents the working class is nonsense. I Believe Novara want the best for the working class but GB News definitely doesn't. No Rightwing media represents or cares about the working class.
Not sure what's wrong with having beers in their hands though... Some people drink casually, not necessarily celebrating.
Disrespectful to Muslim women, apparently.
Gotta be honest, I had a beer (one) in Walthamstow. I bought it from a Muslim shop keeper.
Because alcohol removes inhibitions and then men (especially) start speaking in a lewd manner.
Do you think its a good look to wander around in trackies with a can of larger while people are hurling bricks and shouting racist epithets around you? Is that what you mean by "casual drinking" ?
@@NaazA-ch6yy It doesn't for most people. Just a few. It's a part of many people's culture, just as tea and coffee are, so I don't think it should be viewed as celebratory or disrespectful.
Why is 'right' the ..most used word ? Right
Through music and....food 😂
It’s the Government, import, divide and conquer.
America right?!😮
Great perspectives. I'm so much better educated as a result. Thank you from a white Scot.
I like this guy
Ever since the riots.. 🎶
go to N ireland. The whites are divided there
I am a Brit from London whos lived in the USA for 14 years. I visited the UK 4 years ago and I didn't recognize it. I witnessed much more crime and it was very crowded. I couldn't care less about race or colour. All races and religions have their bad apples. My area had a Muslim community I believe they were mostly Pakistani and Turkish I never encountered any problems. I believe the problem is now that previously people were vetted somewhat before entering the country. People entered legally. Now anyone turns up not only people in need but criminals aswell. The very people seeking safety are probably fleeing from. The government are wankers.
Criminal ( migrants) roaming the streets of UK towns ? If you are sure they are criminals you should know their names. Report them to the police please.
@@mcounlall9042 That's right I know everyone's name in a city of 10 million.
@@mcounlall9042duh they said he lives in the US. How the hell are they supposed to report migrant criminals?
@@Tens8a phone the police and report the crime he’s witnessing, presumably people driving on the left side of the road and doing doughnuts around a circle. Murder rate is a sixth of the U.S.
Looks like Brexit paid off then?
Expect these headlines:
CLACTON COTTAGERS CLAIM 'POSTER BOY FARAGE' AS ONE OF THEIR OWN SAYS MAIL.
PROUD CLACTON CONSTITUENTS GIVEN NOVEMBER DATE FOR NIGEL'S NEXT VISIT.
TICE REFUSES TO BLACK UP FOR ROLE IN 'CRYING GAME' REBOOT.
AND
REES MOGG HOMELESS AFTER CARELESS COFFIN FIRE.
Thank you.
There is I'm afraid a limit to how many times I can listen to the word "right". The message is lost in irration at the language.
❤❤❤❤
We used to have Labour Party Young Socialists.
The Labour Party used to represent labour - the working class. Not sure what they represent now.
@tituscrow4951 since Blair it has become a neoliberal party
@@tituscrow4951what did the tories represent?
@@RileEren capital. But they’re meant to. As the Labour Party are meant to represent organised labour. Which they don’t now.
Oh my God wow this is interesting.
Could have discussed lessons fighting NF, BNP and blackshirts? What tactics and strategies apply today?
Other working class colours are available. 😂
The truth about the white working class is that despite their concerns they were told their country wouldn't change or be taken over but it has. This is the same for Can, US, France as well.
My gym/spa where I go in hours after work by vast majority are filled with peoples speaking ten or so different languages. Many happen to be light colored but many hindu and asian as well. About a third each.
It is a very expensive place only well off people manage, BMW's teslas those type things in the lot.
I married of color all all my kids and grandkids are of color.
But those jobs it does not depend on what third it is, they are jobs not held by natives here. The way to manage poverty in other places is not to continue the places in poverty but to help them improve them ,so they will not move here.
This place sucks, they move here because of the jobs, not as they like leaving their homelands.
Charity by assistance to them in their homelands is the key. It will take the mass migrations of the south to the north by billions, for us to get that unfortunately.
Exporting their poverty to our places is not the solution.
Removing their poverty where they live is the solution.
You are led to charity or this is you end. You are going to be forced to help other nations or live as they do.
@@ronhumphreys3762 I'm not sure you do that by clamping down on freedom of movement (i.e. migration). However, I do agree that from an environmental and sustainable POV, we need to make better use of the world's land. Some places will become less inhabitable because of global warming (see parts of Africa), but other places could be sustainable if it wasn't for war and systemic oppression (i.e. man-made issues that can potentially be rectified).
@@GregOrCreg It is not the clamping down on freedom of movement. Our biased view is our place is better and people just want to move here.
Hence it is always discussed in this context clamping down.
It is not clamping down. They move here as our exploitive practices make it a necessity. They like where they were born and more here as economically and safety wise it is impossible there any more.
The Ukraine 174K here ,because we helped upset the elected president and performed a coup. The coup leaders had H type tendencies and the peoples in russia parts picked up on that and some formed their own place then to the russians, for protection, ,and some stayed in the ukraine but revolted.
WE caused all that. A balance of power existed between eastern and western ukraine ,the president was the result and we did not like his choices in economy so we removed him by coup.
One place and one example 174K that.
It is not they wanted the UK it was they were forced to the Uk by our circumstances created.
We could have worked to help their economy so they would favor the west by overt aid, what did we do...a coup.
Afghanistan 20 years of american control did they even have a shred of health care...none covid they were on their own. This is the change we need, it is not clamping down.
The natives in America and canada didn't think thier nations would change or be taken over either, but you don't see them complaining about immigration. Maybe the members of the white working class you speak of should grow up and realise that they exist in the context of several globe spanning empires. The "invasions" and "changes" we're facing in our countries are completely peaceful compared to ones our ancestors forced upon the forefathers of the immigrants you fear. Change and migration are natural parts of the wheel of history. We don't get to demand stagnation after foisting so much change on the world. When you've been in the driver's seat for several hundred years, it seems silly to complain about the passengers you've taken for a ride, and the destination to which you've arrived
Ash you are killing me. So FF.
What's FF?