Yessss same, except for Ermac. I'm way more excited for Ermac than anyone else, but otherwise new kameos means potentially way more stuff to mess around with for my characters
As someone who ran Li Mei × Shujinko for season 2 ranked, I totally agree with your stance on Shu as a kameo. He's a lot of fun to play with when you have the right match up, but most of the characters that you come across in ranked sets are terrible matchups with him and I'd basically just have to bank on being able to switch to another kameo after the first match and not lose again. The worst part about him not having any ambush moves is that once you learn the best combo paths with him, it actually doesn't vary much from match up to match up. With li mei I have to basically hit confirm one of my strings into his special and that's about all he can offer (except for Kenshi). I've heard the argument that they should take away the need to charge him up before using the moves but tbh I wouldn't mind that as a handicap if he was actually powerful enough to justify that as a balancing mechanic. I hope they don't remove his moves to replace them with an ambush though, it was be great if they would add an extra move for each character that is an ambush with a new input. All of the other kameos have more than 2 moves (and you can't count the basic punch and kick as moves).
Sorry for the late reply, but yoooo a fellow Shujinko enthusiast! And yea exactly. He's cool but currently just fun to lab with, and even then, the novelty wears off when you realize youre just doing *string into Shujinko launcher into the same juggle you would have done in your normal BNB*, which is basically what you just said. It's the ambush moves that really lead to cool and unique combo paths, OR the moves with unique properties like Scorpion Spear, Geras TimeStop, or Kenshi Sento like you mentioned. I actually like the fact that you have to charge him, but only if they scaled up the moves you get a bit more. Since if youre good at keeping him charged, you effectively get more kameo uses per match than a standard kameo, and I enjoy using him as a meatshield sometimes or even just to make people try to swing at him and then whiff punish them for doing so. Only thing with his charge is I feel he should at least start out with full bar at the beginning of the game(but not every round) Agreed on your last point too. It would be sad to see them just convert the 1 bar move to an ambush or something. Id rather see everything else kept the same, with the addition of a 3rd move that's an ambush. Especially if the ambush wasn't just limited to character's special moves. I'm tryna see Shujinko come in swinging Sub's Back 2 while im doing Smoke cancels on someone in the corner lmao. Or do Omni-Man's grab string where he grabs your leg and slams you a couple times. Though the problem I just created by giving him really strong ambushes like that mean you'd probly never use the summons so those would need to be rebalanced. I wonder how balanced itd be if in that case, the ambush cost the full kameo bar, the lvl2 would only cost half a bar, and the lvl1 moves would never cost kameo bar and could be used indefinitely? Or even if you can only use it if the bar isn't empty, but they dont actually spend kameo meter to use. Most of them are so much worse than the lvl2 moves that I barely use them now, so I'd be curious how good that fantasy version of Shujinko would be lol Would be a blast to use though at least
great vid as always mister Brinks. i’m a smoke/sareena player so i have no complaints here hehe but i do wish shujinko was more usable overall. he has some sick potential but seems it’s just not all the way there. i wanted to ask..i don’t use sektor cameo but why don’t you keep the combo going after the flame thrower move? is it a scaling thing or you just simply can’t
Thanks! And lmao yea I can understand why youd be content with your team comp. Agreed, its hard for kameos to compete unless they have a really good ambush or a crazy good summon. Shujinko's copy moves don't really give him anything to help open people up or play in any unique kinda way, so he kinda falls short of the other kameos. And oh I wish I could keep the combo going after Flameburner, but yea its just a restand with enough plus frames that you get a strike/throw mix, but it resets the combo. I love it cuz you can just delete people if they guess wrong in the corner
@@AwesomeBRINKS haha that’s so sick bruh, i got to look into using sektor more. one more thing…thanks for the refreshing content bro, as a person who genuinely still enjoys this game it’s nice to see creators not constantly tearing the game down for ‘dying’. Appreciate you!
@@AlejandroJrSantanadude its so sick, you really should try him! And I got you covered with all the ins and outs in my first Kameo Klass episode too if you are tryna learn him haha. And word, I'm glad you're a fan of it too! I honestly really enjoy the game too, and I'm tired of the over the top negativity. The game has a lot to criticize and thats fine, most of the criticism I dont even disagree with. But I want to make content for the people like me that are still having fun with the game and still believe NRS is going to improve it(tho apparently very slowly lmao) over time. So I appreciate you too! And don't worry, I'm gonna get back to making guides and shit now that the patch is out. I just didn't wanna put out a bunch of info that mightve gotten changed today. Got a couple Smoke guide vids planned next!
Dude same. The stance moves sounds incredible. Unless its too hard to keep the stance meter full, I think she's going to easily be a top 3 kameo based on what they showed in the Kombat Kast
The only buff shujinko needs is to make his konquest kick (mid) plus on block or at least safe (0 frame advantage). His punch is good but it’s a high and can easily get poked out of it.
Honestly I dont agree. Every viable kameo is viable because they either have a solid ambush, or sometimes a reeeaally good summon that basically works like an ambush(Low Hat). Making his kick safe would be great, but you still lose out on so many crazy ambushes from other kameos by picking Shujinko, and most of the time, all you get is a really good low-scaling launcher, or a special that is pretty safe on block(like Shujinko's version of Havik's Torso Spin). You dont really get anything that helps to open people up, or let you combo in situations that you couldnt normally. A couple of the moves enhance your neutral(Scorp's Spear, Baraka's projectile, Shang fireballs etc.) but I think the only way to make Shujinko able to compete with the other kameos is to give him an ambush that lets him rulebreak just like all the other good kameos do, or make his copy moves soooo much stronger that it gives you new tools if you pick him, since the point of the kameo system is to pick the kameo that gives you a new set of tools that helps your character out. There's nothing really unique about him other than the novelty of using your opponent's moves and usually doing a shitload of damage
Lao might have a shitty teleport but it helps you keep your turn on throw tech Shu-Sento is nerfed compared to the original Shu’s ambush could be some Axe kick: bounces on juggle & standing but knocks down on crouching opponents
I didn't realize that use for it. I didn't think it was fast enough to do that without just getting poked out of it as you reappear. I wish it was a little better as a move but I would rather Motaro be the character with the really fast and rulebreaking teleport. But yea Lao's identity as a kameo is fine right now imo Yea Shuj-Sento is definitely worse, but it is still a crazy move. My point being that I don't know why they let you have Sento against Kenshi, but against Johnny they said nah to hype mode lmao Yoooo I really like your idea! Something like that would give him a lot more combo variety when combined with the copy moves, but more importantly would give him something unique that helps to open up the opponent, which he currently doesn't help much with in most matchups.
Ehhh leave Ice Karpet punishable on block...I love it but sometimes it needs to get punished. I wish they gave her at least 1 Ambush. The move where she crashed down could be that...its +4 on block, works well to wake up but would be even better if it launched on hit. And lastly, yes the Orb set up even on a hard knock down gets me killed. I have to run fullscreen then go in with Ashrah.
Ehh Im not sure tbh. Making Scorpion's plus but not making hers safe is weird. I dont think I'd make hers plus, but making it at least like -6 or something seems fine to be consistent. She definitely needs an ambush though. Making the ice crash a launcher would be cool. I still think the orb should be an ambush cuz itd make her a really unique setup focused kameo. LOL yea it is not a good move right now imo
Ooooh a Frost player? I feel like youre almost as rare as Shujinko players lol. Though I probly dont fully count since I dont play Shujinko online currently, I like Sektor way too much. It's really weird that they buffed Scorp's OH to be plus, but kept Frost's low to still be death on block. But thanks, Im glad you agree with the Frost buffs. I think itd be cool af if her orb was an ambush. All the other changes would just help her whole kit to be usable. Is Snowflake the ice orb?
@@AwesomeBRINKS why do you like sector? He seems like a worse kano… yes, snowflake is the ice orb move, I believe it was called like that in the move list
@@Hellonleash Oh Sektor is great, the missile works similarly to Kano knives or Kanoball, but its a mid so they can't just avoid it by ducking so they have to commit harder to try and avoid it. But you also get Flameburner for corner restands, which is gross, and telepunch lets you hit confirm F3>BF3cancel which you can't do with Kano outside of the corner since the knives send too far after 1114. I personally think Sektor is a top 3 kameo for Smoke. Probly Lao, Stryker and Sektor, but Sub and Khameleon might be in that group too. I have a Sektor kameo guide on my channel if you're really interested to see all of what he gives to Smoke. I love him lol
@@AwesomeBRINKS kano ball is also a mid if i’n not mistaken. Btw smokes best kameos are 1. Sub & Scorpion 2. Sub & Scorpion 3. Kung Lao 4. Stryker 5. Sektor That’s the ranking made by Justnasty, the best smoke in the world. Sub just gives insane invis setups and scorpion is literally THE smoke kameo, he gives too muxh utility
Sorry for the late reply, but yea I was making the comparison between the missile and the knives, since both let you combo on hit, where kanoball just knocks down. Yup I agree with that list I think. Idk if thats how I would personally order them but I havent played as much with Stryker, Sub or Scorpion as I have with Sektor. I've only used Lao against my practice partner but I've done a lot of labbing with Lao for my Kameo Klass guide video on him and im still working on the script for the Scorpion and Sub kameo guide vids lol. I think the best part of Scorpion is that you can combo from a raw BF3, which makes your cancel pressure suuuuper scary since mashing at the wrong time against Smoke (which is normally the easy counterplay to him canceling on you) gets you full comboed lmao But im not sure Im a Scorpion believer yet, but maybe I'll change my mind once I really lab him with Smoke
Lol you don't think most of the kameo moves take too long to come back?? Why do you feel that way? I just think it contributes to most people single focusing on individual moves. Like choosing to ignore some of the more situational moves because it would lock you out of the main kameo move. Like people that use Goro never use Stomp, because it locks them out of the Up Punch, without enough reward. If the cooldown was faster on the Stomp, youd see more people justifying the full bar use for a crazy Stomp setup knowing they wouldnt be locked out of their Up Punch for like 15 seconds. I'm not saying the cooldowns should be instant, just that some of the cooldowns need to be much faster(Motaro Triple Shot, Goro Stomp, Frost everything), and some need to be like a tiny bit faster lol (Sektor everything, Goro grab, etc.) I think Lao and Sareena's cooldowns seem really well balanced. Sektor is pretty good too but there are still times where it feels like using the meter for a Flameburner restand feels not worth just doing a normal knockdown into missile pressure
@@AwesomeBRINKS I like the idea of kameo management. Like, trying to make a combo as long as possible so you get 1 sareena back by the end of it and etc. I agree that some cooldowns should be decreased, but not all. The problem with not used moves should be adressed in some other way, goro should be picked for his unique stomp, it should be his signature, the air combo extender is scorpions feature, they should just simply nerf the up hit move and buff the stomp
I mean yea I do too. I think itd be lame if cooldowns were entirely meaningless, but some of them are so slow that it makes you just not wanna use it so you dont lose access to the other better moves. Like it's usually not worth using Lao's spin because you get a much slower cooldown for a bit that impacts your usage of Low Hat. But that at least isn't so bad that it's never worth using the Spin. But characters like Goro have moves that take soooo long that it just is never worth using the stomp or grab. I actually think Goro's UpPunch is fine. Its a worse version of Scorp's fire breath since Goro UpPunch doesnt alter the gravity when you hit them, so it doesnt really work for extending long combos like Scorpion's. I just think the Stomp and Grab should be way stronger to justify them having such long cooldowns and for you to even consider using them. Which is why I think they should just say fuck it and make the grab move an actual command grab, and increase the stomp damage by a lot with some of the cooldown shaved off But yea I definitely dont think all the cooldowns should be decreased, but there are a lot of them that need to be readjusted
What this game needs is for all the kameos to be playable characters. The roster is just too limited, its a character crisis game and it's suffering from it.
Honestly it's like I said in my previous 2 videos: If they did more to up the character power of the playable roster, itd have the same effect. Johnny, Smoke, Kenshi, Liu Kang, Ashrah, Kitana for the most part, are all characters with enough tools that they can do multiple things and can pick and choose kameos that just augment or expand that toolset. But many of the roster characters are so limited in their toolset that they tend to only pick 1 or 2 kameos that let them actually have a base level toolkit, and even with kameos they feel like they are less complete than the other characters I mentioned.
Shujinko is just Sareena with extra steps
LMFAO that's actually the best description, you're 1000% right hahaha
This whole game is based on Kameos I’m more eager to see the new Kameos rather than the new characters
Yessss same, except for Ermac. I'm way more excited for Ermac than anyone else, but otherwise new kameos means potentially way more stuff to mess around with for my characters
As someone who ran Li Mei × Shujinko for season 2 ranked, I totally agree with your stance on Shu as a kameo. He's a lot of fun to play with when you have the right match up, but most of the characters that you come across in ranked sets are terrible matchups with him and I'd basically just have to bank on being able to switch to another kameo after the first match and not lose again.
The worst part about him not having any ambush moves is that once you learn the best combo paths with him, it actually doesn't vary much from match up to match up. With li mei I have to basically hit confirm one of my strings into his special and that's about all he can offer (except for Kenshi).
I've heard the argument that they should take away the need to charge him up before using the moves but tbh I wouldn't mind that as a handicap if he was actually powerful enough to justify that as a balancing mechanic.
I hope they don't remove his moves to replace them with an ambush though, it was be great if they would add an extra move for each character that is an ambush with a new input. All of the other kameos have more than 2 moves (and you can't count the basic punch and kick as moves).
Sorry for the late reply, but yoooo a fellow Shujinko enthusiast! And yea exactly. He's cool but currently just fun to lab with, and even then, the novelty wears off when you realize youre just doing *string into Shujinko launcher into the same juggle you would have done in your normal BNB*, which is basically what you just said. It's the ambush moves that really lead to cool and unique combo paths, OR the moves with unique properties like Scorpion Spear, Geras TimeStop, or Kenshi Sento like you mentioned.
I actually like the fact that you have to charge him, but only if they scaled up the moves you get a bit more. Since if youre good at keeping him charged, you effectively get more kameo uses per match than a standard kameo, and I enjoy using him as a meatshield sometimes or even just to make people try to swing at him and then whiff punish them for doing so.
Only thing with his charge is I feel he should at least start out with full bar at the beginning of the game(but not every round)
Agreed on your last point too. It would be sad to see them just convert the 1 bar move to an ambush or something. Id rather see everything else kept the same, with the addition of a 3rd move that's an ambush. Especially if the ambush wasn't just limited to character's special moves. I'm tryna see Shujinko come in swinging Sub's Back 2 while im doing Smoke cancels on someone in the corner lmao. Or do Omni-Man's grab string where he grabs your leg and slams you a couple times.
Though the problem I just created by giving him really strong ambushes like that mean you'd probly never use the summons so those would need to be rebalanced.
I wonder how balanced itd be if in that case, the ambush cost the full kameo bar, the lvl2 would only cost half a bar, and the lvl1 moves would never cost kameo bar and could be used indefinitely? Or even if you can only use it if the bar isn't empty, but they dont actually spend kameo meter to use.
Most of them are so much worse than the lvl2 moves that I barely use them now, so I'd be curious how good that fantasy version of Shujinko would be lol
Would be a blast to use though at least
i think scorp's spear can just be made an ambush so you can pull yourself out of unsafe stuff on reaction if you hit on block
That's probly a much better and less unhinged way of balancing it than what I said in the video lmao
great vid as always mister Brinks. i’m a smoke/sareena player so i have no complaints here hehe but i do wish shujinko was more usable overall. he has some sick potential but seems it’s just not all the way there. i wanted to ask..i don’t use sektor cameo but why don’t you keep the combo going after the flame thrower move? is it a scaling thing or you just simply can’t
Thanks! And lmao yea I can understand why youd be content with your team comp.
Agreed, its hard for kameos to compete unless they have a really good ambush or a crazy good summon. Shujinko's copy moves don't really give him anything to help open people up or play in any unique kinda way, so he kinda falls short of the other kameos.
And oh I wish I could keep the combo going after Flameburner, but yea its just a restand with enough plus frames that you get a strike/throw mix, but it resets the combo. I love it cuz you can just delete people if they guess wrong in the corner
@@AwesomeBRINKS haha that’s so sick bruh, i got to look into using sektor more. one more thing…thanks for the refreshing content bro, as a person who genuinely still enjoys this game it’s nice to see creators not constantly tearing the game down for ‘dying’. Appreciate you!
@@AlejandroJrSantanadude its so sick, you really should try him! And I got you covered with all the ins and outs in my first Kameo Klass episode too if you are tryna learn him haha.
And word, I'm glad you're a fan of it too! I honestly really enjoy the game too, and I'm tired of the over the top negativity. The game has a lot to criticize and thats fine, most of the criticism I dont even disagree with. But I want to make content for the people like me that are still having fun with the game and still believe NRS is going to improve it(tho apparently very slowly lmao) over time.
So I appreciate you too!
And don't worry, I'm gonna get back to making guides and shit now that the patch is out. I just didn't wanna put out a bunch of info that mightve gotten changed today.
Got a couple Smoke guide vids planned next!
also, can’t wait for janet cage, she looks like so much fun
Dude same. The stance moves sounds incredible. Unless its too hard to keep the stance meter full, I think she's going to easily be a top 3 kameo based on what they showed in the Kombat Kast
The only buff shujinko needs is to make his konquest kick (mid) plus on block or at least safe (0 frame advantage). His punch is good but it’s a high and can easily get poked out of it.
Honestly I dont agree. Every viable kameo is viable because they either have a solid ambush, or sometimes a reeeaally good summon that basically works like an ambush(Low Hat). Making his kick safe would be great, but you still lose out on so many crazy ambushes from other kameos by picking Shujinko, and most of the time, all you get is a really good low-scaling launcher, or a special that is pretty safe on block(like Shujinko's version of Havik's Torso Spin). You dont really get anything that helps to open people up, or let you combo in situations that you couldnt normally. A couple of the moves enhance your neutral(Scorp's Spear, Baraka's projectile, Shang fireballs etc.) but I think the only way to make Shujinko able to compete with the other kameos is to give him an ambush that lets him rulebreak just like all the other good kameos do, or make his copy moves soooo much stronger that it gives you new tools if you pick him, since the point of the kameo system is to pick the kameo that gives you a new set of tools that helps your character out. There's nothing really unique about him other than the novelty of using your opponent's moves and usually doing a shitload of damage
Lao might have a shitty teleport but it helps you keep your turn on throw tech
Shu-Sento is nerfed compared to the original
Shu’s ambush could be some Axe kick: bounces on juggle & standing but knocks down on crouching opponents
I didn't realize that use for it. I didn't think it was fast enough to do that without just getting poked out of it as you reappear. I wish it was a little better as a move but I would rather Motaro be the character with the really fast and rulebreaking teleport. But yea Lao's identity as a kameo is fine right now imo
Yea Shuj-Sento is definitely worse, but it is still a crazy move. My point being that I don't know why they let you have Sento against Kenshi, but against Johnny they said nah to hype mode lmao
Yoooo I really like your idea! Something like that would give him a lot more combo variety when combined with the copy moves, but more importantly would give him something unique that helps to open up the opponent, which he currently doesn't help much with in most matchups.
Ehhh leave Ice Karpet punishable on block...I love it but sometimes it needs to get punished.
I wish they gave her at least 1 Ambush. The move where she crashed down could be that...its +4 on block, works well to wake up but would be even better if it launched on hit.
And lastly, yes the Orb set up even on a hard knock down gets me killed. I have to run fullscreen then go in with Ashrah.
Ehh Im not sure tbh. Making Scorpion's plus but not making hers safe is weird. I dont think I'd make hers plus, but making it at least like -6 or something seems fine to be consistent.
She definitely needs an ambush though. Making the ice crash a launcher would be cool. I still think the orb should be an ambush cuz itd make her a really unique setup focused kameo.
LOL yea it is not a good move right now imo
your frost buffs are 100% justified. As a smoke/frost player it always annoys me how her slide is death on block and snowflake is unusable
Ooooh a Frost player? I feel like youre almost as rare as Shujinko players lol. Though I probly dont fully count since I dont play Shujinko online currently, I like Sektor way too much.
It's really weird that they buffed Scorp's OH to be plus, but kept Frost's low to still be death on block.
But thanks, Im glad you agree with the Frost buffs. I think itd be cool af if her orb was an ambush. All the other changes would just help her whole kit to be usable.
Is Snowflake the ice orb?
@@AwesomeBRINKS why do you like sector? He seems like a worse kano… yes, snowflake is the ice orb move, I believe it was called like that in the move list
@@Hellonleash Oh Sektor is great, the missile works similarly to Kano knives or Kanoball, but its a mid so they can't just avoid it by ducking so they have to commit harder to try and avoid it.
But you also get Flameburner for corner restands, which is gross, and telepunch lets you hit confirm F3>BF3cancel which you can't do with Kano outside of the corner since the knives send too far after 1114.
I personally think Sektor is a top 3 kameo for Smoke. Probly Lao, Stryker and Sektor, but Sub and Khameleon might be in that group too.
I have a Sektor kameo guide on my channel if you're really interested to see all of what he gives to Smoke. I love him lol
@@AwesomeBRINKS kano ball is also a mid if i’n not mistaken.
Btw smokes best kameos are
1. Sub & Scorpion
2. Sub & Scorpion
3. Kung Lao
4. Stryker
5. Sektor
That’s the ranking made by Justnasty, the best smoke in the world. Sub just gives insane invis setups and scorpion is literally THE smoke kameo, he gives too muxh utility
Sorry for the late reply, but yea I was making the comparison between the missile and the knives, since both let you combo on hit, where kanoball just knocks down.
Yup I agree with that list I think. Idk if thats how I would personally order them but I havent played as much with Stryker, Sub or Scorpion as I have with Sektor. I've only used Lao against my practice partner but I've done a lot of labbing with Lao for my Kameo Klass guide video on him and im still working on the script for the Scorpion and Sub kameo guide vids lol.
I think the best part of Scorpion is that you can combo from a raw BF3, which makes your cancel pressure suuuuper scary since mashing at the wrong time against Smoke (which is normally the easy counterplay to him canceling on you) gets you full comboed lmao
But im not sure Im a Scorpion believer yet, but maybe I'll change my mind once I really lab him with Smoke
don't agree with cooldown part
Lol you don't think most of the kameo moves take too long to come back?? Why do you feel that way?
I just think it contributes to most people single focusing on individual moves. Like choosing to ignore some of the more situational moves because it would lock you out of the main kameo move. Like people that use Goro never use Stomp, because it locks them out of the Up Punch, without enough reward. If the cooldown was faster on the Stomp, youd see more people justifying the full bar use for a crazy Stomp setup knowing they wouldnt be locked out of their Up Punch for like 15 seconds.
I'm not saying the cooldowns should be instant, just that some of the cooldowns need to be much faster(Motaro Triple Shot, Goro Stomp, Frost everything), and some need to be like a tiny bit faster lol (Sektor everything, Goro grab, etc.)
I think Lao and Sareena's cooldowns seem really well balanced. Sektor is pretty good too but there are still times where it feels like using the meter for a Flameburner restand feels not worth just doing a normal knockdown into missile pressure
@@AwesomeBRINKS I like the idea of kameo management. Like, trying to make a combo as long as possible so you get 1 sareena back by the end of it and etc. I agree that some cooldowns should be decreased, but not all. The problem with not used moves should be adressed in some other way, goro should be picked for his unique stomp, it should be his signature, the air combo extender is scorpions feature, they should just simply nerf the up hit move and buff the stomp
I mean yea I do too. I think itd be lame if cooldowns were entirely meaningless, but some of them are so slow that it makes you just not wanna use it so you dont lose access to the other better moves. Like it's usually not worth using Lao's spin because you get a much slower cooldown for a bit that impacts your usage of Low Hat. But that at least isn't so bad that it's never worth using the Spin. But characters like Goro have moves that take soooo long that it just is never worth using the stomp or grab.
I actually think Goro's UpPunch is fine. Its a worse version of Scorp's fire breath since Goro UpPunch doesnt alter the gravity when you hit them, so it doesnt really work for extending long combos like Scorpion's. I just think the Stomp and Grab should be way stronger to justify them having such long cooldowns and for you to even consider using them. Which is why I think they should just say fuck it and make the grab move an actual command grab, and increase the stomp damage by a lot with some of the cooldown shaved off
But yea I definitely dont think all the cooldowns should be decreased, but there are a lot of them that need to be readjusted
What this game needs is for all the kameos to be playable characters. The roster is just too limited, its a character crisis game and it's suffering from it.
Honestly it's like I said in my previous 2 videos: If they did more to up the character power of the playable roster, itd have the same effect. Johnny, Smoke, Kenshi, Liu Kang, Ashrah, Kitana for the most part, are all characters with enough tools that they can do multiple things and can pick and choose kameos that just augment or expand that toolset. But many of the roster characters are so limited in their toolset that they tend to only pick 1 or 2 kameos that let them actually have a base level toolkit, and even with kameos they feel like they are less complete than the other characters I mentioned.