RUST REMOVAL WITH MOLASSES
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- Опубліковано 24 сер 2024
- I was not satisfied with the molasses method - I expected the chisels to come out bright & shiny.
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#rustremoval#electrolysis#evaporust#molassesrust removal
Hi Mr Pete. Molasses works by chelation. It converts rust to an iron salt which is water soluble, so you can just wash it off. It takes longer than rusting (conversion from iron to iron oxide). So you would need to leave it for weeks. It works particularly well on parts which are too fragile or too deeply rusted to use acids or mechanical methods. Its also great for parts which you can't reach inside of with brushes and the like. Much more patience needed though!
JoeInBendigo nice comment and useful for thought in case a specific case comes up
Yes, you need to leave it in there for a good long time. I just tend to forget about it and leave it far longer than needed but it strips off paint, rust, etc. I think 2 weeks is the minimum, I tend to forget about it for months.
What if its a stronger mix or even 100%?
10 Percent works too I had great results
Mr pete you can make how many videos you want.I watch them all.You legacy will benefit the future generation.Good work
Hey Mr Pete, The bayonet looks like an 1855/1870 which was in fact used from 1855 to 1872 and WAS used in the civil war (1861 - 1865). It could also be an 1873 which was used from 1873 through the end of World War I in 1918. You are missing a retaining ring which sat in front of the lip on the muzzle ring. You can tell the difference between the 1855/1870 and the 1873 by measuring the inside diameter of the muzzle ring. The 1855/1870 will be approximately 25/32nds the 1873 will be aprox 47/64ths.
i was thinking an 1861 Springfield bayonet
Bayonets for me are a bit tougher to hold and look at because I can't help but think about the good possibility of what it actually did to somebody during war. Not the same to me as say, a rifle from same era.
MasterDrazhar thought google reverse image ...made sue viewed comments
I like the evaporust with the parts in the wife's heated crockpot and it works in minutes. And we all know how you like to use your wife's kitchen equipment.
I need to add that this was an old crock pot, she upgraded to a newer one.
Don't forget to put the wife's denture brush back when your done
I think the molasses does work- it just takes time. Two weeks to a month is what I understand.
Every time I see a chisel with a big 'ol mushroom on the end I can hear my old shop teacher hollering "Dress that chisel! I don't want shrapnel flying around the shop." As for citric acid, I haven't used it to remove rust but I can say that it will take galvanizing off hinges and other hardware. It makes for a nicer look.
I kept the chisels & punches at school in good shape
Every time you remove the chisels out of the molasses and wash them in water you are destroying the chelation reaction that removes the rust. Next time support the chisels off the bottom a little so that they are out of the rust that falls off and leave them alone for about 2 weeks. They will come out shiney.
Thanks for watching
Operation Christmas Child is an awesome program. We do it every year.
My youngest boy actually did rust removal with molasses as a science fair experiment. He compared store molasses with feed store molasses, and many different concentrations. He found that 10:1 was best. Put those chisels back in for a couple weeks and they will be perfect without bushing, even the deepest pits. While molasses is much slower, it is much cheaper especially if you want to do large pieces like car fenders. And it doesn't hurt to leave it too long. I forgot a couple Studebaker leaf spring brackets in the bucket for about 6 months and thought they would be ruined, but they came out looking like like they had been sand blasted.
Thanks--his research has helped me.
I am restoring a 1916 FWD Model B Truck and have used it no problem. I use molasses from a agriculture supply firm in a mixture of about 30% molasses to 70% water. It works best in warm weather. It can remove deep rust in about 1 week. I find it inexpensive and gentle as another person posted. You do not loose material. I put bolts and nuts in it along with sheet metal pieces, cast iron and steel.
I’ve been using molasses the last few years, in my opinion it’s the easiest option, just mix it roughly 10 to 1. No worry about leaving it too long, I can get molasses for $1 Aussie dollar a litre. (I’m in Nth Qld with sugar cane processing close by)
By day 3 it’s only just starting to work.
Yes it stinks, I have it in open large open container, mold, dead insects and with rusty steel in it, it bubbles away like a cauldron.
I have used Molasses for over 40 years as per my Grandfathers instructions.
I have always used it straight or with 10 to 1 mix the one being water. But here is the kicker, I place my parts in with a wire lead attached and a tag on that wire as to the part and the date placed into the bath and I would give any part at least 6 months before looking.
After this amount of time, I have on some parts (old axe head ) in particular I was able to see the grain of the steel and the hardened forge welded in blade section.
Now I am an artist making sculptures from old parts and in some cases I have waited 12 years to collect the parts to do a single sculpture so 1/2 a year in Cleaning storage was no big thing.
Outside is the place to store these baths cause I get a mould growing on them that would kill Dogs and small children and a smell that wipes out most insects within a 12ft radius.
Parts that are needed in a hurry go through a cement mixer running at half speed with a few pounds of small nuts and screws flowing with Diesel and a dob (hand full ) of lanolin this in a short time with minimum amount of noise (have a cap on the mixer) will clean up well for my needs and the steel gets a coat of rust treatment preserving as well.
Parts needed on the spot will be done in an electric tub.
A friend sent an iron railroad spike to me from the New England woods where I grew up. It was over 100 years old and caked with thick rust. I prepared an 8-1 solution of water and Grandma’s molasses, placed the solution and the railroad spike into a Maxwell House coffee can, replaced the lid, and stuck a Post-It note on the top with an ‘Open’ date two weeks away. Nearly all of the rust had fallen off, so I let it set in the can for another week, and [with the assistance of a wire brush] the rust came off. Applied a little mineral oil to it to keep it from rusting, and that 100+ year old spike looks brand new! Yes, the molasses stinks, but, contained in a coffee can, it isn’t all that bad. If it’s something I don’t need immediately, I would definitely choose the molasses for the outstanding job it did!
👍👍
I was previously a big fan of the electrolysis method for de-rusting until I discovered molasses. For best results molasses needs time (maybe a week or more, depending on extent of rust) and heat. In cold weather I move my molasses- filled container to a warm room/ airing cupboard to keep the the mix active. Molasses does work and is cheap, easy set up and much cleaner than electrolysis, although both have their place in tool and metal restoration. Thanks for the video, I find all your videos entertaining and informative!
I'm looking forward to your rust removal series. "Time and rust waits for no man", and it's an issue we all face from time to time. Thank you for the time and effort you give to educate us!
I'm surprised to see you didn't already know molasses takes longer than the other methods. I bought a 50lbs bag of dry granulated molasses, it actually worked quite well at freeing up the throttle shaft in an old carburetor that had been sitting out in the weather for a long time and was seized solid.
your videos seem to be focusing on brute force removal, which I guess has it's applications.
old car guys seem to like the molasses because it won't attack the parent metal nearly as bad as the other methods, and as such is desired for use with thin components. also it can inexpensively be used in much greater volumes for larger parts... fenders, doors, grilles, bumpers etc.
make no mistake, when done correctly, it does work.
the smell will attract rodents though, and given the fact the parts will have to be submerged for longer periods, that can become an issue.
True Molasses contains very little phosphoric acid, and it is the acid that removes rust.
The details need to soak for several weeks for it to get some results.
Greetings from Sweden.
Now to make those iron fortified molasses cookies.
Pete, Old timer, watch repair/makers used to use green tea.. . any green tea. (tiny parts)
I've used several methods including molasses and electrolysis Hydrochloric acid . Electricity has different results I suppose having to do with the iron base/weather etc. It some times leaves the metal pity where you'd think it shouldn't after using many times.
If time is not crucial... My #1 choice is Molasses 9 to 1 ( Must not be DE-sulfured ) all natural is what you need. 2 weeks minimum soak in vat. It will eat all but the metal leaving a dull gray finish. Left over rust will be left as a fine silt/sediment which will spray of completely with a pressure washer (Best) or tooth brush etc. Molasses will last up to 7 months and is not that offensive to the nose. Try using a potato whew !!! Had a large nut & bolt could not turn apart .. after Molasses they rolled apart by hand no kidding ! I would definitely revisit the sugar stuff. Something more for parts I will not paint or treat with other rust inhibiting agents you can wipe with linseed oil or past wax etc. etc. etc.
When you do your next rust removing, I suggest adding an old (but rust-free) gauge block or parallel to each solution. I would allow you to track any loss of the base material.
This process takes about two weeks and works great. You took them out WAY too early.
Mrpete you are an unversity of knowledge I never get tired watching yours videos.
Thank you very much
I had an old rusty fuel can that had also rusted on the inside. I filled it up with a citric acid solution with a pH of around 2.5 - 3 and it worked exceptionally well. Within a coulpe hours it was good as new. An the good thing is that where I live citric acid is very cheap and I can buy it at any supermarket. As of now, it's my prefered method of rust removal.
I've not tried the Molasses or electrolysis, but man the Vinegar works great - and it's cheap too! I'd been buying evaporust (expensive) and it will etch the metal at the liquid/air interface. Vinegar took off the rust without any of the etching. I'd never heard of that method until I ran across the video of Mr. Pete's experiment. So, thanks!
Evaporust will be your friend. My only guidance is make sure you find a way to completely wet the object you are working on. It will give you a line.
Thanks for making this video. I have a pair of old truck wheels that I'm going to soak in a 20 gallon trash can mixing a 9:1 ratio. Wish me luck
Good luck
Interesting video, Mr. Pete. I'll be curious to see how a higher concentration would work. I'd also like to see you put those back in the molasses for a few weeks to see what happens.
May I suggest that you include the chisel shown in this video in your future tests with other methods just for curiosity sake?
Molasses takes a little time but works brilliantly
She had a west coast strut that was as sweet as molasses
But what really knocked me out was her cheap sunglasses
A sweet pair of chisels. I bet you would be better off putting the molasses on bread with butter.
I wouldn't call it a failure. This method just takes longer. Would be interesting to see how much faster it goes when it is warmer.
using the feed molasses would have been better, it has more sulfur in it my grandfather used to use it, he was very thrifty and as he already had it that is what he used. he left it for about a week
Somehow, for some reason(s), I think you're on to it: The composition of the reagent and TIME..... This "MO-METHOD" would be esp. appropriate for large parts where an electrolysis tank would pose size constraints and the other reagents get pricier---even vinegar.....
Corn syrup works white sugar dissolved in hot water acces brown sugar ..... couple weeks does very well and is very gentle not like pickling....I understand pickling changes the iron surface.....I used sugar water for my grand father's egg beater drill it didn't harm the paint only the rust
I had great results saving a rust ball from a paddock with a vice inside. So rusty it was bearly noticeable as a vice. Took about 1 month but it loosened all the rust (light wire brush each week) and came out shiny. I found it to be a very slow process, but super cheap and easy as long as there is no rush.
I like the rust series videos a lot! Got me onto your trail, and I'm still following it with much interest. Thank you Tubalcain!
What I use, I haven't tried electrolysis yet, is Muriatic Acid. What I have is 30% hydrochloric acid. I mix muriatic acid and water in equal parts. It works very well at removing rust quickly but you need to do it in a very well ventilated area as the vapors can irritate the eyes and nose. Also I would suggest you use eye protection and nitrile gloves. Keep checking on it frequently until the rust is removed. Then rinse the parts first with baking soda/water to neutralize the acid then rinse with water. I take the container with the acid outside and slowly keep adding baking soda mixed with water into the container until the foaming stops when the acid is neutralized. When it is neutralized, I'll dump it down the drain in the sink, plug the drain, fill the sink the drain the sink to flush it all out of the pipes.
Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family! I for one, love your videos and do not nit pick them as some do. I was born a shop rat and my best memories are from my shop teachers. Keep up the great work! Jeff in Bozeman, not all that far from your brother. haha
It is slow, you need at least a week in warm weather but in time it will remove deep pitted rust as well as free up rusted in bolts.I used it when i restored my Datsun. Hot rod people do entire body panels in a large tank ie plastic fish pond. If i am in a hurry I will use boiling vinegar or citric acid. When i want to check progressI fish the item out bare hands, the smell doesn't bother me .Don't wash in water until you have finished because the reaction has to start again.
Looking at the before and after shots, it looks like the rust wasn't removed, but passivated to a stable state, so it shouldn't corrode further. You should do a follow up experiment comparing the corrosion resistance of the treated chisels
My wife and I take part in the Samaritan's Purse Shoe box program each year. It"s a great organization and a great cause. And I love to drizzle a little Grandma's molasses over my pancakes and French toast in addition to my regular syrup.
👍👍👍
I have a 1873 Springfield trap door with a bayonet and yours looks just like it without the locking ring.
Thanks for watching
You gotta try that evaporust, you won't be disappointed, and remember you use it over and over again on other items, until it finally stops working. The cost is the only drawback as compared to vinegar, but it does work very well and is not just an acid like the others.
I recently bought an old Kennedy box with several Starret tools. I cleaned the rust with vinegar and it worked nicely. However there were three Starret adjustable parallels that were completely destroyed. The metal became deeply pitted. All the other tools were not damaged. Evidently some metals should not be subject to acidic chemicals. How do we know what metals to avoid?Marv Linke
Check and clean each week or two and put back in solution if needed. It will not eat the base metal. That is what is good about the molasses method. And it is cheap.
Grandma in the 80's good one. lol :-)
Thanks for the molasses experiment. I've been curious about the effectiveness of the molasses method and you have confirmed my suspicions that it doesn't work very well. I have seen videos of guys, I believe they are in England, immersing complete auto bodies in molasses solutions to remove rust. They were claiming success but didn't give any specifics about the concentration or time of immersion.
I remove light rusting/oxidation from the milling vise, squares and other measuring tools with a mix of WD40 and CLR. It seams to be working ok and it doesn't corrode the metal. I have a special video request: lately I had some issues squaring stock on the milll, despite tramming it within 0.5 thou. I am kinda playing by hear and I can have surfaces parallel within 2-3 thou, but for a project involving a toll block of aluminum the error multiplies on the two farthest surfaces. I'd like to see one day a video dedicated to techniques accurately square stock accurately, this would definitely improve my skills behind the milling machine.
Oh...yeah...and I use ferric chloride diluted in water as a more aggressive method. It can eat the good metal very quickly though. It is used as an etching agent for copper, copper melts very quickly in it.
Try prep and etch from home Depot. it is phosphoric acid based. my favorite for cleaning rusty bolts on my old truck. I have tried vinegar, oxalic acid, evaporust and electrolysis as well, but phosphoric is my preferred method for small parts.
I did see on the jar label, that is said that the product was desulphurised. With a sulphur content, weak sulphuric acid may be formed, with the water, which would help with the rust removal.
It looks like a M1873 for the springfield trapdoor rifle. Could be wrong though.
HYSS exactly right...
Hyss I believe you're right. When I get back from my trip I'll check my 1873 bayonet to compare. I seem to remember there being a locking ring on mine and Mr. Pete's is missing his locking ring or it is a different bayonet.
And what year did they make that rifle?
I used the same molasses in a large container. Ratio was approximately 25 to one. Thought I was wasting my time and a few bucks. Worked excellent. Took around 18 days.
Thanks for watching
If something is learned, the experiment was worthwhile. Good to know molasses are best eaten.
lol
I heated the cheapest brand of apple cider vinegar to almost boiling then submerged my railroad spikes. Probably within two hours I had them clean with some wire brushing. It really works on them as noxious fumes rose out of the heavy nylon container. I put a cover on it. I've used molasses and electrolysis, but I think I prefer Vinegar.
The last time I used the electrolysis method to de-rust an item I tried using a type of sacrificial anode I had never tried before. I used empty Campbells soup cans. They worked fine. They are too thin to survive very long though and holes began appearing in them after about 24- 36 hours.
"He moves slower than molasses in January"..One of my mom's old favorites.
My mother used to say that also. I didn’t really get it at the time
Molasses will only eat at rust, if you have any other coating it prevents molasses from attacking it so may of been oil under the rust or old paint,
Molasses gets deep into all the crannies and you don`t have to grind down to them,
some rust is oxidization and from when dried out when oxygen hits it ,So leave it in longer until all gone and metal goes black
After you place in molasses at a 5-1 ratio for a week not 4 days it eats all the rust, and keeps it rust free for a bout a year,
But be aware it takes oxygen from cast iron and make it little more brittle,
It is not a failure. Adding vinegar to the molasses is going to speed up the process. And use less water. The process is slow but it works.
Not sure if others have said so, but molasses is used primarily because it requires no environmental concern. No clean up after usage what so ever. Given enough time it will dissolve that rust as sure as anything. Even vinegar should be neutralised before you tip it down the drain, ideally.
The bayonet is from an Enfield Three Band Musket. Same type used in the Civil War. It is a 58 caliber Percussion rifle.
Bayonet looks to be post Revolutionary War. Could fit a Brown Bess muzzle loader.
11:48 this is 11/21 2023 & Thanksgiving is 2 days away, all adds are Black Friday now,
even your newspaper from 7 years ago.
I have no clue what this potion is, but here in the great southern N.E. rust belt, my son
does a lot of big truck frame repair. Here no matter what make, spring hangers , cross
members all gone so much that fuel tanks fall out. He buys a product from Eastwood Co.
Sprayed on with a garden pump sprayer and left over night then power washed, the frame
looks white' isht, no pock marks in those deep pits at all. Then POR 15 black applied and
that product is indeed impressive and expensive... I think its a kind of acid. What do
you think? I believe its only sold in 1 gal and 5 gals with no dilution. As far as small
parts we glass bead those as well as carbruators.....
Mr. Pete. I have a 1873 Springfield trap door 45/70 that has a frog sticker that looks really close to that.
The bayonet in question is in fact from an 1853 Pattern Enfield rifle. There were several types available at the time, this one is often referred to as a "socket bayonet" due to the locking mechanism fitting over the muzzle. It could be from a Civil War rifle, as both the Union and Confederate supply channels imported British Enfield rifles throughout the war.
An aspect often overlooked with rust remover videos is how to treat the products after the rust is removed. So....?
Usually takes 2 to 3 weeks to work. That's why they say "Slow as molasses"! And the bayonet looks to be Civil War era Springfield. Missing a locking ring. And always love your videos, no matter what the topic is! :)
Thank you very much
Barkeepers Friend, it's never failed me!
Thanks for watching
I'm curious about the citric acid as I've seen it used to clean up lathe chucks.
watch that video
mrpete222
If you use lemon juice from windfalls, mix 50/50 with water, after the steel is de-rusted from the molasses and you've brushed the black slime off, wash the steel with the lemon juice. This treats the steel so as to prevent flash rust. It can leave a green tinge but fades.
the mix is 50/50 my grandfather used it to derust cicle mower blades
ihey came out like new
LOL, enjoying these videos.
Thanks for your time
I used Molasses diluted 9 to 1 to derust a 150 lb. vise. It worked quite well, (slow as Molasses) after it sat for two weeks. Now the dynamic jaw sits low and the jaws don't meet up very well. Wondering if electrolisys would have done the same thing. It does stink right from the beginning, it has to be covered if you keep it in the shop. Mold also develops on the surface of the solution.
Thanks for watching
Rust removal - just fighting thermodynamics up hill - I was more concerned about those mushroomed head ends of those chisels - the only mechanics who allow them to get that bad are the ones that may lose their sight as the overworked steel flys off as they are hammered- they need to be turned or ground off.
This bayonet would fit the rifles that would have been carried by George Armstrong Custer's army in The Indian Wars or (maybe) in Cuba and or The Philippines during the Spanish American War. It was not really very common in The Spanish American War. By 1898 the Springfield 1873 had been usurped by the Springfield 1884, and again later by the 1902-03. The 1884 Springfield had a rod shaped bayonet., and the 1903 was even more different yet. The Spanish carrying the German Mauser essentially almost handed the American Army their ___ses, so the US Army went for a bolt action Mauser style rifle themselves. I remember buying WWII trophy 8mm Mausers for $20 or $30 or $50 for really nice one, when I was a kid.
Great video (as per usual). Looking forward to the rest of the story. Have you thought of doing a follow-up video on Rust Preventatives? I saw a product called Boeshield T9, supposedly developed by the Boeing Company. It claims that it "provides superior corrosion protection, waterproof lubrication, and moisture displacement". I'm just curious if it works, or if something else works better, etc. Thanks for all the time and effort you spend for our enlightenment!
we have secret santa around here to help kids in rural lincolnshire uk to help them get a xmas dinner. normally they do toys as well to collect and help the poor.
Arjan Wilbie a
Oh, and on the bayonet, I have one of those too, mine came from a civil war musket but not sure which one but the bore was pretty large and twisted on to the front sight
Plus Birchwood-Casey Blue & Rust Remover has phosphoric acid in it. I've used that brand alot. Kind of expensive in my eyes. It works very fast. I just bought some phosphoric acid for concrete and I want to test it, but I don't have anything rusted right now.
By the size of the attachment cylinder on the bayonet, it could be earlier than a trapdoor, possibly around the 1860 mark, from the .54 cal muzzle loading Springfield. Did the .58 cal Remington Zouave's have a bayonet?
I've used molasses for rust removal it takes about 3 weeks you have to wait its the old story its slow as molasses but it works great
It won't remove paint obviously and any old oil or grease needs to be removed first. Don't put any non ferrous in the brew unless you want it gone, it dissolves that faster than rust. Unlike electrolysis, once the rust is gone, it won't take the clean metal .
Molasses is the one that does the least amount of damage to the metal. Yes, it takes longer. But for price point if you look at cost and have a tank to put it in and forget about it for a few weeks it will eventually look like brand new metal where other chemicals while working fast also can damage the surface of the metal much worse.
Yes, some of these methods seem to etch the metal
Oxalic acid's main applications include cleaning or bleaching, especially for the removal of rust (iron complexing agent). "Bar Keepers Friend" is an example of a household cleaner containing oxalic acid. Its utility in rust removal agents is due to its forming a stable, water-soluble salt with ferric iron, ferrioxalate ion. (from Wikipedia)
The most interesting thing was when this video's thumbnail popped up on my home screen, looking like hot dogs boiling in soy sauce. "Cooking with Tubalcain." I did half expect you to toss a pancake in there before putting the lid on...but maybe molasses only goes on pancakes in the South?
Looking forward to the rust removal olympics!!
I believe that bayonet IS Civil War. It may fit the Union .58 caliber Springfield. There seems to be a missing band which was used to adjust the fit on the barrel end. Still, it's possible I'm wrong. There were a tremendous number of bayonets that had that flattened triangle cross section with those hollows on the sides. I owned one myself that had a slightly different socket arrangement.
As others have said...time....you did not put a time limit on the removal process. Another product that was told to me by UK clock repairers is ...tea... again be prepared to wait. Have never tried tea so?
Now that is one I have not tried myself--thanks for trying it for me!
Mr. Pete, you sound like Jimmy Stewart.
Thanks, many have said that
Off subject; I was watching your older videos and I was surprised you didn't have Ray Price singing " For the good times ". I don't think he sang about molasses.
If you want something done in a day, sure, it might not be your cup of tea, but don't call molasses as a rust remover a total failure...you just haven't taken the time to understand what you're working with...for a start i've seen molasses work in a day with a stronger mix and using the liquid mix meant for cattle...normal amount of time though to wait is from one week to a month...no good for impatient people such as yourself...keep up the experiments though, they are always interesting...
I used this method on some old rusty drill bits i left them in the bucket for over a month. it did work very well but like you said there are other methods that are quicker. Would i use the method again. No but it did work surprisingly well.
Needs to be left a lot,lot longer have been using this method for many years on restoring old car parts
As I understand it, gunsmiths tolerate the long time period of Molasses because it does not pit the surfaces. At least that is what I read in Hamilton Bowen's "Classic Arm's Journal"
looking forward to the results.. Thanks for sharing sir...
I used evaprorust works very good, but I need to try this molasses next
Yes
Mr Pete, Would you think molasses would work faster if it is warmed to min of 85 degress F..?
For Molasses you need more time.
It works fantastic as it is non-corrosive like other rust removals. You know when it's ready when it absolutely sinks and it has a greeny slim thru it. It should look & smell like it came from the bowels of the devil himself. And your tools will come out 100% sparkling clean.
At least 2 -4 weeks, depending on the time of the year. In cold climates, even longer.
Yes, I have used it. It is shown in one of my rust removal videos