This is the Most Versatile Cold Weather Layer | The Level 4 Windshirt
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- In this video we are deep diving into the 4th level of the 7 layer cold weather system, the wind shirt.
This is one of the most versatile and misunderstood of all the layers. I hope this breakdown helps you better understand, utilize, and identify a wind shirt for your person layering system.
The Arktis Stowaway is my preferred wind shirt for a multitude of reasons. Unlike the PCU system, you can easily find it commercially available on both Arktis’ and Kommandostore’s websites.
Featured Products:
Arktis Stowaway
-Weight = 6oz (size Medium)
Price = $40-$60
Beyond Clothing L4 Ventum Pants
Weight = 12.5oz (size 34 Reg)
Price = On sale for $45 at the time of this video (Dec. 2023). MSRP = $110
Patagonia R4 Fleece
Discontinued :(
Price = Can be found for under $100 on the second hand market
This actually changed my mind on windshirts. I always thought they were windbreaker type things that for all intents and purposes, were worse level 5s.
Me too.
Glad to hear I was able to help you better understand them!
My Arc’teryx Squamish has legitimately saved me a couple times. Once travelling across a frozen lake, the weather changed at the halfway point. Windchill was so bad I couldn’t breathe. Tipped the Jetsled on its side as a shelter, put the Squamish under the down jacket. Saved me.
That's pretty scary. The windshirt is almost like an emergency bivy/space blanket in some situations. It can be just enough to get you out of an oopsie
I got a Stowaway after watching your PCU video and it’s proven to be super useful when I’m running or biking here in the PNW. The combination of water resistance and breathability does an impressive job of keeping my base layer dry when I’m working hard.
That’s great to hear!They’re unbeatable for going fast and hard in a wet environment like the PNW.
One of the best explanations of how to integrate windshirts into a layering system. A quick look at the comments shows many different points of view of these garments, dependent on lots of factors, like individual metabolism, climate, exertion levels, experience, etc. Coming from a UL backpacking/adventure in Scandinavia background, and now more of a bushcraft/prepardness point of view, it's clear that a simple, cheap windshirt can add a lot of versatility to lots of different kits/loadouts. I've often used a windshirt in summer, as a bug layer. Loving these videos. Keep up the good work.
You certainly cover all the bases. You even touched on stackability. I might’ve organized the presentation a little differently, starting with PCU L4 Windshirt function, but I probably would have limited myself to that. What you have done is more extensive and more practical. You’ve also explored the commercial offerings and definitions of windshirts/breakers/blockers.
The Twight / PCU L4 function was very narrowly defined. It was to reduce the rapid cooling effects of wind, especially when wet. Part 2 of your white board diagram illustrated this pretty well. I also had not thought of double DWR layers. I wonder how much more water repellent that actually is.
Commercial offerings of wind layers are quite varied, from unbreathable wind stops to some highly breathable offerings that are starting to blur the distinction between wind layer and softshell layer. Then, products like the First Spear/Hill People Gear Wind Cheaters are used like the Twight “Shell" / PCU L5 Softshell but are marketed as a wind layer. I think some the wind layers you mention do that too.
Like every level, the Twight “Shell" / PCU L5 was also narrowly defined. Its specialized function was to get moisture out of the clothing. It was the outer layer where all the warm inner moisture moved down the temperature gradient and finally condensed on the cool shell, but its fabric was so breathable that the moisture evaporated instead of collecting. This was the key to the PCU and Alpine Action Suit systems, but it’s out-of-the-box thinking that goes against many traditional clothing paradigms and classifications. “Softshell" may have been a bad choice of label for this layer. For these reasons, although key to the PCU system, I think most people don’t “get” what this level is supposed to do.
Commercial offerings under the “softshell” label are many times more varied than the wind layer. I saw a softshell jacket the other day with a membrane. I always thought that was the one thing the industry agreed on, the presence of a membrane is a hard shell, because breathability is the essential quality of a SS. There are lots of “softshells" with some sort of insulating lining. A lot of manufacturers try to make this level some sort of light insulation. They try to hold heat in instead of getting moisture out. An article I recently read also listed “stretchy" as a key SS feature too. As long as good fit allows me to move freely, stretchy is not essential to me. Despite the variety, there are some commercial softshells, especially those for mountaineers that fit the Twight / PCU requirements, but only a few.
I agree with all of this. The lines are so blurred that it made my head spin at first. I felt like it took me too long to understand all the nuance. Mark Twights philosophies and the Army’s simplification of them really helped me a lot.
And ya the windshirt under the shell/camo top thing is new to me too. I love the way militaries and outdoor sportsmen adapt each others philosophies.
@@KitCreep Thanks for enduring and presenting the bewildering mess and helping to clear up the confusion.
After reading your reply, I followed clickbait on other videos. I found videos on products from Keela, a Scottish maker. I haven’t purchased anything, but I am intrigued by their products. Many may be viable alternatives to, or possibly the roots of, PCU and ECWCS garments.
I was initially impressed by the Hydron Soft-shell Jacket, a possible alternative to PCU L5. Then, their System Dual Protection (SDP) technology offers possible alternatives to Gore-Tex that, according to reviewers performs as well or better. They even have a Belay Jacket.
They are worth checking out, both the review videos and the website.
This is fascinating and informative. As a trail runner that has been increasing cold/wet weather running (10 mile snow days, 22 mile rain slogs), I’m always looking for the optimal layering that will keep me from overheating when I’m running, but also keep me warm when I have to slow down on the technical sections. Somehow YT algorithm sent this. This video had some great tips, and looking forward to exploring the other videos.
Glad I was able to help! Cold wet weather is always the hardest to deal with. Especially with high levels of activity like trail running.
I almost bought a wind shirt. But was unsure, of the usage. Now I'm educated. Thank you very much. Great video. Cheers 🍻
I wore a wind shirt and.... the wind went through it... this video makes more sense on how to use it
Glad I could help!
You got me going deep on getting PCU stuff here in Alaska. Just got an Arktis stowaway coming in as well after you mentioned it in the other video. Even copped a.Beyond A7 top on sale. Drippy and warm.
Oh hell ya. Both of those are bomber
Those british smocks are super cool and you can even get the MTP pattern ones pretty cheaply. Thanks for the video I'm going to pick up a wind shirt
When hiking around the UP of Michigan. I like to run a French CCE Sweater over a 60/40 cotton polyester t shirt, my outside shell is usually a bdu shirt or a soft shell jacket. I value not overheating over being comfortable. I have never used a windshirt but this video has me thinking!
I actually wear those L4 pants on the daily, great pair of pants and surprisingly durable
Huge fan of the Ventums
This is the best video on the proper use of wind shells I've seen. Thanks
Gotta say I don't carry a wind shell when backpacking B/C I make my eVent rain parka double as a wind shell since it's so breathable.
I never liked any soft-shell I've tried. Too bulky, too heavy, not warm enough and not a great wind barrier.
My choice is the Patagonia R2 Tech Face hoodie. Light, warm, breathable and reasonably wind resistant as an outer layer but also good as an insulating layer under a shell as whenI'm alpine skiing. Poly base laye, wool sweater, R2 Tech Face hoodie and WPB rain parka.
The "Tech Face" treatment is a calendared (heat smoothed) shell with a good DWR for fog and light drizzle. As well it is more abrasion resistant than the regular R1 and R2 exteriors. TRY IT!
ahhhh hell yea ive been nerding out over the pcu system. i been buying my layers one by one. got my level 1 longs, level 3 fleece, level 5 soft shell top and bottom, and a level 6 top.
That’s a great lineup so far! Definitely recommend a waffle top next and some quality wool socks.
My Buffalo systems pertex windshirt is certainly a versatile item that has lasted me well through the years although for really cold and wet weather I am a wool and ventile or waxed canvas man these days, you can't beat wool as a base layer or a mid layer either in winter or summer. Where the Buffalo shirt really stands out is the side vents which allow for maximum ventilation when you need it.
When I’m working in the kitchen the L4 ventum are the only pants I wear. The straight cut and semi hidden leg pockets makes them work well even places where uniforms are not strictly managed, they feel like nothing when you put them on, they dry basically instantly, and the fleece-mesh pockets are a godsend when you’re sweating through your clothing all day. “In the field” I tend to just wear standard BDUs or Crye style bottoms, and if I really need a wind layer I’ll add the beyond wind pants under them.
They’ve become my favorite all around pants. I actually picked up a second set because of that. And throwing them under cammies is a great idea. I gotta try try that out next time do some goon stuff.
Again, a great video, I'm always looking forward to your uploads!
Great video as always. I am thinking about getting myself a Helikon Tex Windshirt. I already got there Blizzard Jacket+Pants, which basically are a copy of the level 5. They have a good quality and are relatively cheap. Getting your hands on original PCU stuff is quite hard in Europe, so that's my best alternative.
Helikon Tex looks pretty bomber. And ya the PCU system is even a struggle to get in good condition and the right size here in the US. Staying warm is the important part though so luckily there are plenty of good current production alternatives.
Which windshirt, the windrunner or tramontane?
I have used the helikon tex windrunners for several years and I have used all kinds of windshirts (arktis stowaway, beyond & patagonia pcu issue, buffalo systems, montane, mountain equipment, and a bunch of running and sking tops for over 20 years). They are my favourites for everyday wear, walking in the woods and so on.
Pros:
Seems quite durable
They are quiet
The fabric is matte and not shiny
Very comfortable fabric and does not feel so plastic and sticky like some others, even when it is quite warm
Very breathable and thus suitable for high intensity aerobic activity
Pretty good design, cut and fit.
Comes in many solid colours and camo patterns.
Cons:
High breathability is always a trade off and the wind resistance is perhaps not high enough for strong cold winds or mountain use. The same goes for the arktis stowaway which is also among the most breathable of all windshirts I have tried. For more normal use and high activity, and use in woodland where the wind is generally not as strong, these are among the best.
The hood can be tucked inside the back but there is no real hood retention system, like a strap or something, which can be annoying whilst running or in strong winds when not wearing the hood.
Cuffs are elasticated which is simple and what some prefer, but I prefer to be able to open the cuffs and fold them up a little for ventilation. The helikon is very breathable though.
Water resistance is only there for a short while when the dwr is new, then it resists water as an old bed sheat, i.e. not at all. Again the same goes for the arktis and practically everyting else on the market that relies on wash in/spray on dwr. The military issue pcu stuff is made from a fabric with a permanent silicone treatment of the fibres used in the weave. This really works but the drawback is that these garments (pcu level 4, 5 and the shell fabrics on level 7) have very low breathability which quickly leads to severe overheating, great moisture build up on the inside and slow drying for the insulated garments. These are imo dubious designs, even if the thought behind them was interesting.
Would helikon tex and arktis windshirts be suitable for non-competitive sailing in 4B - 6B winds (13 - 31 mph) and hot weather (above 15C)? These are typically static activities with a few minutes periods of high intensity work.
great video! Also picked up a stowaway based on your rec. Thanks!
I fucking love this channel I see it becoming big soon
Thanks for bringing up Mark Twite he is a god among men
Agreed
Thank you for making this video. I look at this a s what I replace my normal field top with where I put this in the layering.
fucking shoemic killed me. i knew you were based from some other thing you did that i forgot, but the shoe mic bro omg
Thanks man 🤙🏼🤙🏼
I don't think I'd ever go out with my puffy insulator (L7 in the PCU, Belay Jacket to climbers) inside my windshirt, or even my softshell. Sounds like a recipe for overheating, badly.
The action suit wants to be light enough to breath when active which necessarily means you'll get cold when static. The Belay Jacket pulls over the top of everything else, stays on while you're static, and then goes back in the backpack (with a whimper) right before you start moving again.
When I was in 10th mountain I cried every time I had to pack my level 7 🥲 that thing in the snow mountain top was better then sex 😂😂
Yeah, it’s easy for people to get confused by the PCU L3 Thermal (inner insulation) Level and the PCU L7 (outer) Insulation Level. The PCU L3 clothing item was a practical and versatile fleece jacket, but this added to the confusion.
For the system, if you abide by the stickability principle, L3 was to be worn as an inner layer only below 0°F or colder when active, or as needed when static or was allowed as a jacket on base. Other systems in very cold countries include a breathable, low-loft layer or something like a wool sweater in L3. Again, too warm when active, except in the coldest of temperatures but a great warm layer when static or as an outer layer when a shell was not needed.
So as you say, something like a down puffy jacket would not breath well enough for a inner thermal layer and would be too warm when active. It might work OK as a L7 or Belay Jacket as long as it did not get wet.
@@rjtwocircles that's exactly right according to PCU/ECWCS Gen III guidelines. Taking off a layer to put on a mid layer is not always as efficient as throwing a parka over everything, however a belay jacket could be too bulky and warm. Both have their strengths and applications. I'll be doing videos breaking down L3 mid layers and L7 Belay jackets/parkas.
I am planning on taking the bus in winter, there is a wind tunnel coming out of the mountain. In wintertime that said wind is Artic! don't want to freeze anymore. I have to be at the bus stop at 4:30 am.
I have tried the beyond and patagonia PCU level 4's and generally speaking they have very low breathability, especially the beyond. They are not breathable enough for running or other high intensity activities. They are most accurately seen as semi-rain jackets or semi-VBL's.
The Arktis Stowaway (and Helikon Tex windrunner and tramontane) are on the other end of the spectrum with very high breathability. This makes them very comfortable and good for high output activity and as a layer to reduce heat loss through convection, but they are not quite wind resistant enough for stronger cold winds like you often get in the mountains.
I think the best general purpose level of wind resistance vs breathability is something around the level of classic Pertex (a British fabric) that has been around since at least the 1980's. For running I prefer higher levels of breathability though.
Hey Kit, great content. Could you do a "best bang for your buck" pcu kit run down. What kit do you find you love the most. I'm looking for a shopping list to start building my own pcu system from.
Ya in these breakdowns of each level I like to explore cheaper and more available options but I’d like to make a video in the future on building out a 7 layer system on a budget
@KitCreep I'll be over here very excitedly waiting. Keep up the great content.
When is the next video coming out? Keep up the great videos. Will you do a video on the woodland top you're wearing?
Next video is in the works. It should be out sometime later this month. I’ll be discussing the woodland top in the spring.
@@KitCreep what about your opinion on the M65 field jacket and the Gen 1 ECWCS parka getting it's own video? You do good in depth reviews
My local Surplus stores have the LVL3 ACU wind shirts for about 30-50USD.
YOU ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NO U
There is also one more super important fact that favors the Mark Twight's layering system, especially in the military use.
As we all know, Gore-tex stops the outside water from getting to us, but its kind of a double edged sword, it's not really breathable, thus not suited for intense activities. A DWR treated non-Gore-tex shell is much better in an intense scenario.
BUT DWR is very vulnerable to abrasion. And in the tactical environment we are exposed to A FRICKIN LOT of abrasion (crawling etc, those who served in the infantry will know). So our shells gotta lose their waterproofness and soak quickly.
Mid-layer LVL 4 solves this problem - it prevents water from getting to our skin, while its DWR coating, on which we heavily rely, is protected by the shell. It probably makes for the best breathable waterproof clothing system so far.
Been watching the channel from the very first video, keep up the good work!
So what is the Rock Shoe all about?
Hey man, wouldn't hurt if you threw the brands named in the description, coming back trying to find one of the brands you mentioned. Got Arktis, Helikon Tex but I think there was one or two more i cant find. in any case, love it! gotta get my windshirt game on
Thanks for reminding me! Product descriptions are in there now
@@KitCreep god bless you dude! keep it up. I found the wind layer i am going to go for with help from this video 🤠🤙
happy new year!
Having them on the inside as a pseudo vapor barrier is an interesting concept. Any idea why the army documents on ECWCS have the shell layers only on the outside instead of this?
Things get simplified for big army. Special forces learn more advanced methods in their specialized trainings whereas general infantry learns everything possible in a more general fashion. They’re actually removing windshirts from the new CTAPS cold weather system. Seems like not enough people were incorporating them effectively or at all so they eliminated it entirely. I’ve heard a lot of people say “why would I use a Level 4 when Level 5 and 6 do it better”. The 7 level system gives the end user a lot of options to better tailor it to their specific needs but big army’s SOPs favor uniformity over user preference.
Arent most soft shells "windproof" nowadays tho? Wouldnt most just use base layer plus a soft shell (Level 5)?? Genuinely curious, cause im struggling to understand what my system truly needs even woth testing.
Good video man. Picked up a helikon Tex tramontane wind layer in Gods plaid
Thank you for the video. Commenting for the Algorithm.
Good video, but where to Buy this specific model?
Thank you! Kommandostore and Arktis sell it.
Wind, cold wind, rain and snow penetrates fleece and all other woven fabrics uncoated or not incorporating a protective wind/water resistant layer. A wind and water resistant/proof and breathable wind shirt eliminates the issue. You can waterproof a garment but it needs to provide low loss of breathability. Insulation protection from cold temps. if required is a separate issue.
Great video, I may have to think about the layers I use. How/were do you store the layer 4? In a dedicated pocket? What if it gets wet? do you secure it to the outside like a wet rain layer?
I typically keep it in a cargo pocket or anywhere in/on my pack it’ll be readily accessible. It’s a very thin and tightly woven nylon material so it doesn’t really hold on to water. It drys quickly and water generally runs right of because of the DWR finish
Keep it up
As a cyclist, a windproof layer has been essential in cooler, dry to damp conditions since mid 1980s.
In down and up commutes I start with insulation over my windproof and quickly remove it for the climb.
2 ultralight windproofs can be used to trap even more air. One of them can be hi viz.
They can save your waterproof from excessive daily wear and are less clammy.
Durability is an issue for bushcrafting type activity.
Hey! Awesome vid, super well put together. I’m curious - cammies as a top layer seem to play a really key role in getting the most out of the wind shirt in active, wet, +45deg environments. What’s a good civilian alternative for this layer? You mentioned in your first vid that this could be any shirt that’s >50% nylon, but options seem pretty slim. I’m not really looking to stay true to the PCU system here, so willing to integrate modern technologies. Is it just a light-weight soft shell? A fleece? Another wool layer?
Honestly I’m a fan of surplus cuz it’s cheap so I go with any out of issue pattern (that’s a me thing. I know everyone loves multicam but it’s US general issue now and I don’t wanna look like someone I’m not). You should look at surplus OG-507 field tops because they’re just flat green or hiking flannels/button ups. I have a couple button ups from Eddie Bauer and they make for a great 3 season field top. I typically stay away from 100% cotton flannels because of durability since I bushwhack a lot and it’s like wearing a sponge when it rains.
It took me way too long to realize the reason you were holding the shoe was because it's what you clipped your mic to lmao
Great content, when we getting a gloves vid??
I’m honestly still working on a good glove set up :( I’ll do a video giving an overview on glove systems in general but I’m still working on finding my ideal set up. Hopefully I’ll have something worked out by the end of the season.
@@KitCreep I keep hearing good about the pig winter gloves but also want some good mittens. Either way looking forward to whatever research you find.
@@JG41 thank you! Definitely stay tuned. For now I’ll 100% recommend USMC surplus mittens. They’re the Firebrand mittens from Outdoor Research. Warmest gloves I own.
The Marines in the UK use a zoot suit. I prefer the Ciezo two piece suit made by TRC outdoors UK which is a fantastic wind shirt and trousers in night camo. We have trousers not pants.
I see limited use for this layering system. It might be great for speed climbing in the cold. I will still fall back on the time tested 10,000 year old system used in traditional cultures in cold zones 1-2-3. Start with Base layers of untucked wool garments as needed. The outer layer garment of wind proof material, That extends to just below the butt with a hood, and fur ruff around the bottom. The wool garments each have a thermal range of 5F to 15F, whereas poly fleece has a specific thermal temperature with no range. The body vapor exits out the bottom of the outer layer and the heat is trapped maintaining the Tropical temperature range required by the Cour. For added protection when needed is the 8 foot wool sash wrapped around the lower trunk to protect the kidneys. I am not a speed climber, but I do winter bike and have used this system for about 50 years. The last few years I have not felt a need for the ruff on the outer layer.
The technology that got humanity this far can’t be argued against. Primitive layering is king for survival.
However, a system like this was designed from the ground up for sport climbing and dominates in that field.
a windbreaker works so good on top of motorcycle gear for winter time
It flaps like a flag and wears out fast like a tattered flag
@@andrewsock1608 I use mine with a backpack with that it doesn't flap at all, mine has like 10.000 km and it looks like new.
its not as pack-able as the one in the vid its more like a rubber like material.
@@rushiiiop i tried it once and the flapping was so loud my ears hurt when I got home and I’m used to loud bike. I tried it with short sleeves under it and the flapping numbed my arms. I too always have back pack. The stiffer pu military style rain coats are better at not flapping . 👍👍
nice concept, why you holding a climbing shoe in your hand?
I put my microphone on it. Windshirts are really popular among climbers so I figured it fit the theme.
Where can this shirt be purchased?
Arktis and Kommandostore
@@KitCreep thanks
Yep, great piece of equipment to make you sweat as hell.
Great videos, man. Is the US Army level 4 as good as the one you're wearing or nothing like it? Is US Army level 4 any good?
The US military ECWCS system level 4 windshirts should be about the same as the PCU system level 4 windshirts.
Be aware that there are differences between manufacturers though and even lots of fabric used. The Beyond PCU level 4 is basically non-breathable and very water resistant. It is almost like a non-breathable rain jacket without taped seams. The Patagonia is slightly more breathable but breathability is still low. I can see how thesw would work almost like a VBL (vapour barrier liner).
The Arktis Stowaway has very high breathability, and thus lower wind resistance. It's performance is quite different from the PCU level 4's and is closer to a high breathability but wind resistant running top.
A high brethability and also highly wind resistant or windproof fabric does not exist. It is physically impossible. Even densely woven 100% cotton windproof fabrics have low "breathability". It is always a trade off depending on what your use will be, how easily you overheat/sweat and so on.
@@christianhermansson8566 thank you
it would greatly increase the value for backpackers if you just briefly overlay the weight of the garments you show in the video feed
I typically only show weights when doing side by side comparisons but moving forward I can include that info regardless.
The weight of a size medium Stowaway comes in at exactly 6 ounces. I made a post on Instagram where I showed it on a scale compared to some other garments. My Instagram handle is “kit_creep” if you’d like to go check it out.
@@KitCreep I would if I would use instagram
I was watching videos on layering from Spiritus Systems and someone linked your video in the comments.
Cold Weather Layering Part 4: Tactical Rain Gear Explained
ua-cam.com/video/dzlQPMjFpBw/v-deo.htmlsi=YsdIJ7sYtn6TTcBx
I appreciate good, sturdy, full featured gear, but your thoughts on this particular wind shirt make a lot of sense. I'll be watching and learning from your other videos. Thanks.
Thank you! That’s really cool that one of their videos brought you here. I’ve been watching all of their layering videos and it’s been great learning from someone like Kevin who has way more personal experience.
Honey, wake up. Kit Creep posted 🛐
Edit, will be buying more arktis in the future, I love my stowaway
I loved waking up to this comment 😂😂 thanks for the support man 💪🏻
@@KitCreepI really can’t get enough of your content. Always well thought out and thorough. I can’t wait to start finding my layering baseline myself in about a month!
Sadly a lot companies from USA like beyondclothing didn't work worldwide
hey creep, in another video you mentioned you’re 6’+ tall. is your stowaway shirt in medium or large?
i’m 6’2” and lanky, so medium-long is ideal but not an option from arktis. i’m gonna assume medium because of the size chart arktis has and the length looks good on you without any excess
appreciate your time regardless of a reply, playboy 💋
Definitely go with a medium. I also wear a medium long and the medium Stowaway fits my arms and torso perfectly. A large would be way too baggy.
@@KitCreepawesome. im going to another milsim west in april and have been sitting on buying a stowaway for months.
also just saying but you would probably get decent traction on twitter if you were to shill yourself there.
lol I am now looking for wind shirts 😅
Can’t wait to see the lamest level
Base layers will be a short and sweet vid 😉
What’s with the face covering?
what are the pants and the jacket you are wearing at 1:17-1:18
looks fire
PCU level 5 top and bottoms from Patagonia
Windshirts always getting glazed
40 years of trying bs and I find synthetic fibres are too dense making them hold the cold.
A wool sweater with a windbreaker is good. if you are in the cold and not exerting yourself like when you break a leg and have to wait for rescue these clothes will let you die. It’s better to carry good versatile gear and add an extra day to your trip to make up for the weight.
These shirts and windbreakers are way way over priced and you need two because fitting under and fitting over are two different things. Remember there is only ten cents worth of materials used in making a wind shirt.
I think mixed fleece and shell garments are a waste. Just wear a belay jacket for quick trips to the mail box/car. Then normal fleece and shell layers for doing stuff
and whats the pants at 2:00 - 2:02
Beyond Clothing L4 Ventum. I discuss them at the end of the video
@@KitCreep thx
When the fuck did level 4 ECWCS shirts get over $50 on eBay?
Right after this video went live….😂
I buy surplus if it’s cheaper than commercial stuff or if it has features I personally prefer. I can’t justify $150 for a used ECWCS wind shirt. They’ve been that expensive for a while now. Thats why I don’t have one.
@@KitCreep Yeah double checking eBay that seems to be the case. It doesn't surprise me for OCP versions to be at least $100, but the good news is that the UCP versions seem to still be available for $30-70 depending on size.
I got 2 on ebay, in adjacent sizes. Both ECWCS gen III L4's. I think I paid $40 and $60, new or like new
Patagonia can get stuffed. They unironically sue to stop salmon and steelhead broodstock (not hatchery or fish farm) programs in the name of conservation
Was ist das denn für ein Vogel? Macht hier Werbevideos mit Tarnkappe oder wie