Stop High ISO Noise Obsession!
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- Опубліковано 2 сер 2024
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High ISO noise is a big concern for many photographers dealing with low light shooting. I want to argue that we don't need to over obsess about high ISO noise, we should prioritize what truly matters - get the moment, and get the shot!
0:00 Intro
0:25 Disclaimer
1:46 High ISO Is Not Everything
3:09 Low Light Shooting
3:42 Image Samples Reel 1
4:10 Moment Matters
6:09 Image Samples Reel 2
6:37 Story 1
8:30 Story 2
11:09 Conclusion/END
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Good to hear someone standing up for PHOTOGRAPHY , not just camera gear !
10/10 !
"There is nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept." - Ansel Adams
Some of my best travel images were shot with E-P2 and E-PL1 cameras and the 17mm f2.8 and the 40-150mm R. The images were not technically perfect but they captured the essence of the trip and that was what mattered.
Hello Ira👍🏼 .
Whilst I have "better" cameras, I've shot an unbelievable number of photos with my E-PL7 and still do. It's just the right size to slip into a pocket and so it goes with me, here, there and everywhere. (I had an E-PL1 as my first MFT).
If I didn't tell you, you wouldn't be able to tell a photo was from the E-PL7 or the G9 or PEN-F.
Is it good for every situation? - No. But the best camera is the one you have with you.
When shopping for new gear, I often have to remind myself that small details will never save a bad image, nor will they ruin a good image. If the image is good, some noise can actually be okay. Going with a smaller format means I can pack more gear into the same size bag (especially with long tele lenses), which means I have a better chance of getting a good image.
Sometimes I like noise in my photos. Which is why I also shoot film. IMO it adds character
The difference between the art of photography, and just taking pictures. You are an artist in a time when there are too many technicians taking pictures. Keep it up. The photography world is lucky to have someone like you keeping us focused on the art.
Thank you for making me feel better personally.
Robin, you are a very good, talented photographer! Your shared images reflect it, and your ability to coach and guide are valued by a lot of people! So when you say “high ISO noise”, I was expecting more than what I saw. Lol! Back in the ‘70’s when I was shooting newspaper stuff, we’d under expose Tri-X by 4+ stops and process it in Acufine or Diafine or HC110 with hot water plus extra agitation just to rescue an image…now THOSE images had “noise” (grain), but the editor would still use some with the hot story. You are right, of course! It’s the story that matters to the audience. Thanks for your encouragement and support for defining a good photo.
You speak so from my heart! I never understood the hype about the noise.
Very often, a bit of noise adds atmosphere to an image, and can be used as a creative tool. Getting the exposure correct ALSO helps, as demonstrated by your examples in this video. Great stuff! Another thing proved by your video, is that a good photographer shouldn't have to run around all over the place to produce excellent images 🙂
Robin's photographic talent + OM System gear = AWESOME IMAGES!
I agree with all of your points. I use whatever ISO is necessary to get the image I want. I do not use M4/3 system as I am a Fujifilm shooter but the same principles apply. I don't really think that APS has much of an advantage over M4/3. When compared to film even high iso shots are pretty clean. The kind of noise that bothers me is color noise and that is the only noise I try to reduce. I remember my first DSLR was an early Canon and it had pretty bad banding and color noise above ISO 400. Currently I will often add some grain (noise) to my images to give them a more film like look. This will also serve to add a bit of texture to the image when viewed at normal sizes. In short, I embrace the noise and add it as a sort of artistic element in many of my photos. Thanks for honestly discussing the stuff that really matters.
I'm looking at this video on a high resolution 32" monitor and, if you hadn't said anything about ISO and resolution, I would never have even thought about it....
And neither would anyone else being honest.
Great images, Robin!
Robin, I agree completely. Moreover we now have access to AI Noise removal products. I use DXO Pure Raw which does such a good job of removing noise without degrading the image, that I no longer hesitate to shoot at ISO 6400 on my Panasonic G9 and GX9. It is simply no longer an issue.
100% this
nah, Robin doesn't want to try AI noise removal as well, this is a hard coping video. So for this, I prefer Peter.
All these points are true. Gear only matters up to a certain point, after that it's up to the photographer. Pick the tool that'll work, then look for the moment
Well shown and described: It's not because you went to art school and used the best artistics technical means you become a recognized artist; this is only required to become an craftsman. A true artist will become recognized independantly of any prior teaching or specific tools.
right on spot, the fundamental purpose of taking the photo for regular people - "catch the moment"
🇨🇦/🇺🇸... Robin... similarly I was a guest at my niece's wedding and because it was a "destination" wedding and had to travel light I took my E-M1 mk2 and one lens... a 14-150mm f/4-5.6. Afterward, I uploaded a ton of photos to social media for her and everyone loved my photos!!! I was quite pleased that I left my full-frame Nikon at home! I also got great images of Rocky Mountain National Park that weekend! BONUS!
Well put, Robin! I once had a similar experience like you had, ‘beating’ a heavy weight Nikon with matching lens at a performance whilst I was just using a humble mft camera with a cheapish sigma 56mm lens.
An extra benefit I had was the greater depth of field on mft, so I could shoot wide open, whereas the FF camera would have had to stop down to get the same look. The people from the organization preferred at least some of my images over those of the hired photographer both because of the scene being more complete and the moment being perfect.
There’s pros and cons to everything, of course, but the best shot always wins, no matter the gear. Thanks for reminding us of this
Sometimes people add in fake noise in post to get a certain feel too. Once I saw a person do this to a very clean landscape shot, my thoughts around trying to get the cleanest image possible definitely changed and it became more about the moment as well.
I relate it to painting, some people love to get very detailed, every skin pore while others stay quite basic and let the imagination fill in the rest of the story / image. I find the latter to be more interesting to me as I've grown older. Good video
And we all say, "Amen". Thank you for this long overdue reminder Robin. I really needed to hear this, and kick me in the pants. I had just recently posted an article about how some of my old D90 images put many of my current Z9/Z6/D500/D750 photos to shame despite an additional decade or more of experience and advances in technology. That said, I've blown days of going out because "there wasn't enough light for clean shots", when I should have JUST GONE OUT AND ENJOYED CAPTURING LIFE. So again, THANK YOU!
Brilliant. 100% agree. I come from Film days. Make grain character. The shot matters more. Same for the wide open lens. Let that light in.
Wholeheartedly agree. In my opinion the advantage of Full frame over Micro Four Thirds is MINUSCULE. Professionally I shoot Micro Four thirds to Medium Format. Lately I’ve been using my Micro-Four Thirds system more and more with the combination of good Olympus and Panasonic Leica Glass for my work. I am more nimble as a photographer when I shoot Micro-Four thirds. THE WEIGHT ADVANTAGE OF MICRO FOUR THIRDS IS A MASSIVE ONE. ALL THIS TALK OF HIGH ISO NOISE AND LACK OF DYNAMIC RANGE IN MICRO-FOUR THIRDS IS TRULY INSIGNIFICANT.
Couldn't agree more! My OM-1 & 300mm f/4 (600mm f/4 equivalent) together weigh less than my Z9 and ANY Nikon lens I would use for an event or wedding. And less than even the lightest Nikon 600mm f/4 lens by itself!(~8lbs) When I'm out Hiking, carrying less than 5 pounds and not needing a tripod is KING.
Fantastic photos Robin! You prove the point perfectly. It is the image or moment that counts, as you say. Your advice is so sensible, so many other UA-cam vloggers only want to push us into spending a fortune on gear and other technical bits.
Always love how you put photography skills in front of gear. I just hate gear wars.
Hi Robin,
Good story. It is the eyes and not the equipment that makes a good photographer.
There is almost nothing more beautiful than a concertphoto with grain in it. The emotion that gives a grain to the after-experience of the concert is so cool. (oh that sounds psychedelic..)
What strikes me is how beautiful the grain becomes when you convert a high-iso MFT-photo to a black and white photo. (Not from a bird full of details or a lion on the savannah of course, that's another story)
The grain of a 6400 MFT photo is fantastically beautiful in black and white. Like Tri-X / HP-5 pushed to 1600 iso.
Give it a try. Take it even to a higher level and print it out yourself on a beautiful art- or baryta paper.
As an analoque schooled photographer I love the possibilities of digital cameras. But sometimes I just find it too smooth. Especially when I print my photos myself.
Sometimes I give a photo even a little grain when editing in Photoshop or DXO Nik collection. Just a tiny bit. You almost can't see it a twice the diameter of the paper. A photograph comes alive.
Kind regards,
Arnoud
Thank you & couldn't agree with you more :)
I completely agree with your analysis Robin. I would just add that today, noise is even less of a problem than it was yesterday since we now have excellent specialized software such as DXO Pure Raw 2 for example.
The only point that can remain annoying is the colorimetric modifications that an image can undergo when going too high in the ISO.
Thank you Robin 🌸.
Fantastic images Robin.
Hi Robin,
Loved this video as it really hits home on what is ultimately important in photography... getting the right shot! So many people get fixated on camera specs, format etc. and miss the key point which is being able to capture the moments as they happen. All the dynamic range in the world doesn't matter if a photographer misses the moment.
Tom
Well said. You take great photos.
One of your best intro speaches, straight to the point. Really enjoy your content! Wishing you all the best and best regards, Markus
Robin, you are awesome! I love your content and stories! "Size does not matter" Peace
Robin, you are absolutely right! Thanks for this video!
Another great video Robin 👍
Hi Robin, I agree 100%. I also like taking photos at live concerts for a very long time. It is really a challenge because of the difficult light situations, the audience etc. Your photos are really fantastic, also from the technical point of view! I did not recognize noise.
Hi Robin, you absolutely got to the point. It does not matter with which camera, or which format the photos are taken, but on the right moment! And I also like the small MFT housings very ;). Thank you very much for this great video. The photos are also great. Greeting Marcus
Thank you Robin.You’ve hit the essence of true photography on the head… Tell you what, I’ll shout you a mug of coffee..
yes first here.....love all of your content robin....you are a great teacher!!!!
Another great video Robin.
Up to just a few weeks ago I was guilty of 'sensor snobbery' but have recently embarked upon a photography project using cheaply bought compact cameras with tiny CCD sensors.
I am taking more photos with the smaller cameras because I always have one with me, even on my daily travels to and from work.
Of course noise may come in at even the lowest iso settings but I am learning to accept and even like the noise, especially with black and white images, as you suggested, grab the moment with the camera that you have.
I love looking at old famous photographs from the past for inspiration.
One thing I notice is many of them are grainy, blurry and may not even have good focus but they are still great photographs.
Look at a book like Robert Franks the Americans.
The photos are technically not great but the subjects , composition and moment of taking the photo are. He didn’t seem to worry about the technicalities too much just getting the picture. That’s what makes the photos stand out.
There are many examples if you look at them. Documentary photographers often pushed their films to the limit to get the shot.
It’s the same with digital. Yes it’s nice to get perfectly focused noise free photo but getting the photo is the most important part and you have to work with the circumstances you have.
Hi Robin, It took me years to get rid of pixel dissection and noise removal. Today I am already on the way to content and thus gaining the necessary self-confidence. So your talk is also about me and I thank you very much for that. When you have a trip to the Czech Republic, your door and mind are open to me. 🙂
Always good advice, Robin. Loved the stories that illustrate the point you make so well: writing with light (photograph) is about the story, like any good story, and the pen and ink and paper we jot down the story on may be inferior to some other pen and ink and paper, technically, the when the story is 'read' by our brain as we see/hear it, all that extraneous details goes by the way side and we only receive the actual story as we understand it. You understand the pros and cons of each format, and therefore, you do not let yourself be constrained by one set of rules for every format, but adapt your technique and settings to allow whatever format you use to tell the story with the strengths it possesses and you learned how to minimize the weaknesses so that the subject and her essence comes through clearly and powerfully. This is the reason Ansel Adams could truthfully say there are no rules for good photographs. There are only good photographs.
Yes I agree with you Robin!
I think capture the important moment is the essence of photograph which can convey information, story and emotion to someone who is looking at.
Thank you Robin. Just the right message I needed to hear today.
So agree! Great photos of the concert. Photography is so much more than technical quality.
You are fully correct. Although you'll always get some who disagree.
Clients never comment on noise, as they just don't see it like a photographer. All that matters to them, and all that should matter to a photographer, is the final composition.
Great video Robin! Very entertaining and your images always convey feeling.
Thoroughly agree with you Robin - and envious of your excellent "eye"! Not only MFT instead of full frame but once of the cheapest Oly zoom lenses - I got one with my EM10-ii twin zoom kit and where I've taken my time, composed thoughtfully etc it has not let me down.
Great stories Robin. We’ll said!
Hey Robin, great Video and awesome images! As an experienced Night streetphotography shooter I'm aware of the limitations of MFT and you're absolutely right, capturing those decisive moments is everything and noise doesn't really matter if the picture is just good. I even dared to put off the noise filter and now when I shoot monochrome it really feels like shooting BW Film!
Thanks. I’ve missed out on your enthusiastic videos for a while.
Thank you Robin. Your videos are great. 😊😊👍👍
Nice pics Robin & congrats on turning a concert ticket into a paying gig! Surprised you didn’t just take the 75 1.8 as your only lens - it’s a beauty and so good for concert photography. But I agree with your point - you captured the moments and that trumped the limitations of the zoom lens. And yes - the 5D classic rocks if you want to dabble in full frame looks!
Very good video thank you
Very informative
I love that story and they were really good photos. I sold all my Canon gear; 5dmk4 plus lenses that I used for my Real Estate photography business. Switched to the Olympus platform. Nostalgia played a part because I was an Olympus owner back in the film days; OM1, OM2! I loved those cameras and it was alway about reducing the size of the camera for me. Good job Robin!!
Hi Robin and everyone 🤗 A great video Robin, you are so right
Brilliant Robin, I enjoy your videos so much, must be time to buy you some more coffee. Thanks for posting so much great content.
Thanks Robin, good technique and the expressive spirit tops technical perfection every time.
We all see how well you relate to your subjects, too.
Great Robin 👌😆👍 it's all about the light and the moment ❤️ I'm a MFT shooter myself 💪 and manage to catch up, with all the other expensive full frame shooters 😉
Great video...absolutely right...content always trumps technicalities. Besides...iso isn't that big of a villain...software has gotten to a level that makes noise...no biggie. I try to shoot at my base of 100...but I don't fret over it. I don't shrink from 3200 or 6400. I care more about the content...angles...background. Things that no post processing can give you back if it isn't there to begin with.
Great video!
Great pics and I think the noise worked for you adding to the mood. The only time noise really bothers me is when I'm taking wildlife pics and have to crop a lot. Then the noise really hurts the photo. I love B&W and noise only adds to the mood.
brilliant Robin! We can definitely push the ISO higher than in film days. I have a related and annoying anecdote to share. For some self inflicted fail with my shiny new OM-1, I set my max ISO to 20000 in menu and... scrolled away from ISO Auto. I had a few shoots with some horrible grain before realising I needed to re-RTFM
Well done Robin 👏👏 Agreed with you 100%. Capturing the correct and dynamic pose is more important than the possible quality of the photo!!!😊
You drove home a very important message. Thanks Robin!!
The best camera is the one You have and just capture the moment
Totally agree, thanks. We need to be humble to the present moment and forget to pixel peep because at the end the better camera is that what we have
Robin, I truly appreciate you. I love your videos, and especially this one. We as 21st century photogs are far too obsessed with image noise. Think back to film! Thank you, good sir!
This best motivation 👍good thinking
Great!
Gad, that was SO enjoyable to hear!!! The best thing you do is remind folks of what is really important, and secondly you encourage them to apply themselves regardless of the circumstances and their self-perceptions. You speak knowledgeably about gear but you are not talking about gear. You are talking about the decisive moment, the compositions, the human interest, as you said "the core".
And honestly I did not see any noise in those photos. Maybe it is the UA-cam compression masking it, but they all looked perfectly natural for the conditions. Frankly I am amazed you got such shots from an audience seat. It looked like you had designed perches with planned sightlines. It is clear why your clients prefer your work.
Another great video, and a great intro to set the boundaries of the presentation.
Agreed Sir! Too often folks get caught up in technicalities which have nothing to do with passion and capturing emotions. This coming from a photographer who does use full frame which I personally prefer to make images, only my preference though and not a recommendation. Use whatever tools you feel comfortable with to release your emotions and capture special moments in time.
I don’t mind noise, there’s a charm to itself.
Agreed. I have both MFT and full frame and to date, my favourite photos are from a Halloween session I did with 2 friends last year. I only had my Lumix GX80 with its aging MFT sensor and the 20mm f1.7, three candles, one cheap portable LED light as well as the internal flash of the camera. It was pitch black in the woods where the shooting took place but the photos still came out amazing against all my expectations.
I lowered the shutter speed a bit to avoid excessive noise as my older camera looks like trash from ISO 3200 onward.
Hoping to try something similar this year with my Sony to see if it's gonna be any better but I doubt it.
Well said Robin! It truley warms my heart when the most interacted photos online are taken with "inferior", "old" or "obsolete" equipment. Photography to me has never been about the equiment, however (admittedly), some equipment is more comfortable and makes life easier for simplified workflow; but it is always just equipment. I have suffered from G.A.S. in the past, and its my small micro 4/3 kit and the fun I have using it that helps keep things in perpective for me. Thanks for an entertaining video!
ps. it's very liberating taking a beaten up 15 year old camera out shooting in horrendous weather, rather than staying at home looking at the precious shiny new techno computer camera!
Excellent points!! Shoot! Who cares about noise! Capture the moment!
This video give me smiles, true, the moment and how to capture the case is more important ! I enjoy again the omd original because the quality is great 10 years after !
Yes, you are right. You took a great beautifuly moments 😯❤️🔥.
Thanks for inspiration video 🙏
Robin, you make a good argument of course. That said, there is one significant difference that does differentiate cameras between formats and makes, and that is how they handle. In order to get that decisive moment, ideally you should feel unencumbered by your gear. Another way to put it is this: your gear should feel comfortable and natural. This can come, to some degree, with practice and familiarity, but having used a number of different systems, I think it is fair to say that some makes do a better job of getting the interface right. This is the main reason, even beyond lens choice, that I generally pick up my Olympus first--I love using it, and that helps me excel when I am looking for the moment. Woodworkers, metalworkers, and artist, or craftsperson will tell you that they can do better work in some circumstances using a tool that fits their hand over one that doesn't. In every other way, I agree with your message in this video. Good work as usual.
This is a truly good video. Some of us can't carry 75 pounds of camera gear, plus a lens that looks like a cheerleader's megaphone. I love the small size of micro 4:3 cameras like Olympus. Plus, nowadays you can clean up a noisy photo in post.
One of the greatest strengths of MFT is that you don't need the most expensive lenses to get beautiful sharp, well-contrasted images. With full frame, barring rare exceptions, if you don't spend an arm and a leg you only get dull images. Thank you Robin these beautiful examples.
Well actually it applies to all sensor sizes. You don't need to spend an arm and leg and still get great images.
@@goldfries He wasn't listening to Robin.
super et ... MERCI
I have an indoor event coming up Saturday and my only M4/3 long lens is f/4 - f/5.6. I was worried it would push ISO too high. Now, I am not too concerned.
In 1973 I used to shoot Tri-X B&W at 1600 and 3200. Grain was just a fact back in those days.
Thanks , Robin... 👌🏻👍🏻👍🏻🙏🏻
Very good
Greetings from Spain... 👋🏻🙋🏻♂️
9/29/22 I agree Robin, some of the best photos in the world were taken with grainy film before digital was a mainstay. The content of the images means more than a super clean image, the art, and vision of the photographer can separate the best from the good. Constant learning will raise the level of your photo skills. Good equipment is nice, but many bad pictures have been taken with the best and many great photos have been taken with less than the best equipment, the human vision adds to the total.
You nailed it ! 👍
These endless discussions opposing brands, formats, or analog vs digital are just boring and plain dumb. Focusing on the photography itself should be what matter the most !
my friend is a Sony Ambassador and tried many years to convince me to convert from Canon APS-C to Sony FF but I ended up going Fujifilm APS-C because I liked the more nostalgic look of the film grain that reminded me of a kid when my mom bought me those film for my kid camera that I had to crank the film lol. It made me feel like a kid again taking pictures and that made me realize that is what I liked about taking pictures.
Hi Robin.
I speak from Brazil, I really like your videos.
I liked your guidance on photography itself... what really matters: the moment!
I feel very happy with your words.
Your videos about the 4/3 system leave me very undecided... because I use Nikon equipment, and all the weight of bodies and lenses, they make me think a lot, since the quality of the Olympus system seems very good to me.
Thanks Robin.
Sometimes noise adds to the look. It's a little vintage and can have a cool vibe. In fact, sometimes I add noise in post, especially in black and white.
See, The fact you can get 0.5 lenses with micro 4/3rd really evens it out. Meta bones and finding good combos really helps low light. cannon 2.8 on the mount is just stunning and one i love. also Rokinon 135mm F2.0 is stunning
thanks to you im ready to bring out my 40-150 R on my EP3 again. this time for an event where im a guest and to give it a try
True words. Content rules.
Hi Robin, a topic that is well on point at the moment, it seems that prominent members of our M4/3 community
are making videos on software that sharpen and de noise photographs as long as you are prepared to part with
even more of your hard earned money, the same people didn't care about noise a short time ago, but since the
explosion in AI software suddenly noise and sharpness is all that matters.
I have no problem with anyone using software to help them get the job done, but as you say low noise and
sharpness is not what makes a good photograph, noise and softness doesn't necessarily make a bad one.
Thank you for keeping us sane Robin.
I'm a beginner astrophotographer, and one of my favourite photos was a stack of the Monkey Head Nebula shot entirely at ISO 25600. My not-weather-sealed E-M10 II tanked -27 C weather for almost three hours on an f/9 telescope, and the result was *very* noisy, but I got *a* photo instead of no photo at all.
Great philosophy you shared and completely agree. My M43 system got published a lot. I actually felt my EM5 was an advantage in news because I was able to move around quicker and longer than those carrying big dslrs. In practicality, that heavy gear slows you down and becomes a burden in extreme outdoor heat. However, with the same practicality in mind and the new full frame mirrorless, indoor photography demands that high ISO if you want to freeze motion. A good skilled photographer will indeed come away with a good shot regardless of what they shoot, but it sure does help to have the tools to make it easier if your pay check depends on it. I've moved to FF and away from M43 after Olympus left the market. I had no faith in the system anymore, which sucked. Good videos! I'd like to see you shoot on medium format sometime!
I am struggling to adopt your mindset- because it is just plain awkward carrying the full gamut of full frame gear when I should spend more time focusing on moments.
Excellent video.
You have a very good point 😁 I bought what was supposed to be a great mirrorless camera from Sony. Pictures have no "soul" colours are too perfect... Result I only use it for filming... And end up using my old Pentax/Nikon DSLR or film cameras because pictures look more alive .... Also I can never get used to electronic viewfinders
Your photos are great and I don't quite notice much noise (at least in my monitor). I never imagine I could use my humble 40-150 R lens in such environment. Thanks a lot.
I tried denoising 6400 ISO or higher images with my OMD 1, because I heard that this was necessary. Yes, it worked. But for me, they remained the same images. I’m not a professional, so now I consider denoising as an optional extra step.
Great pictures! Noise does not bother me at all. In the (my) film era, when shooting in BW, we were happy with the grain from a 400ASA film boosted at 800ASA to get the picture. It is the moment, the emotions that count.
Good Video! No one cared about grain in the great 35mm film photos. Just the moment.