I got my wife playing wow but if not for me mentoring her and leading the way and answering her questions she’d never have caught on. It’s just too much. It really is.
Same, my wife showed interest in wow it was too much for her. I got her a little invested by moving her to classic and using the controller add-on. But we just play Diablo 4 together now and it’s a lot easier for her to navigate lol
And getting new players to try and get hooked would benefit from a robust "mentorship" system like ffxiv has, where people are rewarded for going out of their way to help people learn the game but have they done that either? FK no... smh
@@KiIowatt People who do the mentor program in FF14 for the mount almost never actually help players. They're doing the same toxic shit that is being done in wow. Maybe these mentors are leftovers from wow, actually.
I think an important factor for new players is the attitude of ppl who have played the game for 5-10 years towards players who make mistakes in a +10 key after having played for 5 months. Their first thought isn't to try and help or ask what happened, it's to leave or flame. I got my friend into the game and I see them dealing with it, every few weeks they get encouraged to quit the game. And these are the people who are gonna be confused when the game dies.
Wow's community is completely toxic. Even in Classic if you don't have the game memorized from 2007 and play a certain way people will flame you. No one in questing areas anymore. No soul. Horrible.
Biggest problem with the game is the community. You even have people who brag about not having played for years but still follow every update to insult the game and dont get how bad of a look that is.
elitsm is a real problem and i find myself guilty of it - its just not fun to play with 'bad' or new players since they dont know what keybinds are, they keyboard turn and many more things except for when its a premade and he/she wants to teach him/her the game its not fun to play with randoms that are new players I played with many new players and if they are learn resistant i instantly quit because they wont go far with this off meta talent build and having their kick on alt gr numpad 5 ive seen some that wanted to learn and others were to big of an ego - thats life i guess?
Lol this guy got mad at me for marking him so I could follow him easier through the key. Ive only played for a few months and never done the dungeon before. Wow players are insane.
I tried to play for the first time during Shadowlands and level to 50 in BFA. For me, leveling up and story was like joining at the end of a party when you missed all the fun and couldn't enjoy it because everyone had already gone. And I had 2 funny interactions with players in leveling zones. First in Draenei starting zone and the second was in Nazjatar. They asked me what the hell i was doing there and when i told them i was a new player they reacted like they saw a unicorn.
I had similar feelings. The game just felt dead and the amount of bloat from all the dead content still in the game didn't help either. I would come across some new game mechanic only to find out on google that said mechanic has been dead for years at that point so there was no reason to do it. I leveled to 50 and I don't think I had one other player even attempt an interaction either. MMOs are a dead genre in general compared to what they used to be.
@@TheTriforce100it's hard for casual gamers or anyone who has little effort or slow learners. Also, a lot of wow players have garbage UI, can't use keybinds, and stand in fire.
Leveling is a terrible experience for new players, really terrible. They gave all of us old players the ability to speed level in our favorite expansions, but what does that do for a new person? You just see some of the plot pieces but not all of them. By the time your max, you haven't even completed everything in the expansion before you move into the current stuff, so whats the point? It's all built under the assumption that "hey, this is WoW. You know this, you've played for 15 years already." If I was totally new coming into this game for the very first time, this late in the game, I wouldn't last a month. Too many systems, too many currencies, too many expansions, too many skills, too many quests, too much everything. It's a bloated, tangled web of old outdated game assets with new seasons and gear slapped on top of it. Not to mention the new player servers are dead, fucking desolate deserts of nobody. So even if you were to level up to max, who are you going to play with? Queue up cross server with people you'll never play with again for a dungeon or a raid.
"ALL YOU HAVE TO DO, is these million things before you ever play the game. Not that complicated" which is the very definition of "it's complicated". WoW's relationship status would be listed as "It's complicated".
You don't even have to do any of the things said in the video to play the game. Just because some top 10 streamer tells you how to play the game doesn't mean you actually have to play the game that way lol. Y'all are sheep i swear.
@@john24110 Bc there is nothing to argue lol. You made an inaccurate assumption and I answered. No point in arguing lol. You like beating a dead horse?
I did a normal dragonflight dungeon the day after DF launched. It was my first wow dungeon in YEARS since I hadnt really played since Legion. Some random mechanic that I didn't know knocked me off the platform and the group insta kicked me. Uhh. Apparently I was supposed to have watched videos of normal dungeons to know all the mechanics or play them all on PTR???? WoW community literally has no patience, they kill their own game. WoW retail players are entrenched and elitist about being good at this game.
Im sure it wasnt a collective realization for them that you didnt know the mechanics(maybe it was but i doubt it) but if you played in older expansions where RDF tool was prevalent for leveling you might have experienced the same thing and i believe its not about elitism really(maybe sometimes it is but generally ive never experienced in normal dungs). Its mostly that RDF Dungs were so easy that people dont even look at what theyre accepting ive been kicked like 2-3 times like that from leveling in RDF years ago just cause someone didnt like something i did or failed a mechanic as u said and the others just simply clicked "Accept" to remove the pop up from their sceen without even seeing what is it about. I doesnt happen often but it sucks big time when you just waisted 15minutes and you got kicked for literally nothing.
Not gonna respond to that other guy but ya you shouldn't have to look at a guide for normal mode dungeons especially when the game never prompts you that the adventure guide is a thing you should use, it shouldn't be brainless but mechs should be able to be intuited.
And when I fell off the platform in FF14, when I respawned dead on said platform again, one of the healers rezzed me almost immediately and we got on with the rest of the battle. How much shit did I get for my mistake? None. Not a word. I didn’t get kicked either. They just raised me and got on with it.
Last time I tried got back into wow was in Shadowlands. Halfway through getting my bis pieces, I got this impending sense of dread, like a "what the hell am I doing??" type feeling. I logged out that very instant. Haven't played since.
Every expansion is the same game just different art it’s why I can’t do it anymore they never innovate or add anything new. The only “new” things they add is art. Otherwise have fun doing dungeon raids pvp or boring ass open world nothing else changes.
if the systems were easier gearing up in wow is the most dogshit thing, lvl 70 dragonflight - do world quest/weekly heroic quest or heroic dungeons to get gear to be able to start doing low keys, get low key gear to be able to farm mid key gear to be able to farm high tier gear to eventually get mythic best in slot and the same for raids, what the actual fuck
It’s funny how every wow stream when I used to watch them, the streamer is always doing exactly what this guy is doing: jumping around waiting on a queue that never comes 😂
classic wow OG mage rotation: frostbolt. after casting frostbolt, cast frostbolt again. keep doing that until the mob is dead. if you have a trinket that does more damage, do that somewhere inbetween.
I like how all WoW players do this 'hanging out in a city' thing where they just jump on rooftops and onto random objects while waiting for queues or whatever
The most popular wow streaming content right now is classic hardcore by far and it’s because people can understand all the gameplay, understand the objective and understand the stakes of losing.
So classic is a better starting point for new players? I wasn't sure if the newer game has enough QoL improvements that it has an advantage over classic
I began in BC and quit in Legion, my final straw was many a guild I encountered complaining bitterly how no-one knows their class/role and raid mechanics. I was told to go f myself and gkicked for having the audacity to suggest we teach newer players. WoW has a downright terrible community and I'd had enough of it.
@@rustyhowe3907to be fair, average player skill is insanely low. I consider myself to be *baseline* skill, and I still had, when content was current, multiple 1st places passes on multiple mythic bosses back in WoD. I *sucked* and I could still be #1, and basically everyone else I raided with was significantly worse, dying in the fire over and over.
@@flinchy-5224 Oh I fully agree with that, in my experience players (at least when I was on) was either god tier level skill or absolute n00b. Raids weren't *as* simple as now buuuut they were also getting easier to handle even back then.
Unfortunately everything in the game takes tooooo long and having to explain people's mistakes would make it even longer. So, people are expected to know what they're doing so less time is wasted 😢
Started in Mists and honestly, I'm glad I got into a guild that actually gave a panda's behind about new players. WoW's issue and why so many have gone to FFXIV is that it's not friendly to new players. Toxic players helped ruin the game and Blizzard's been listening to those sweaty and toxic players, killing the game. With XIV I felt comfortable enough to try tanking and healing and when I said "I'm a new healer/tank" most of the time the playerbase understands "Okay, cool, take it slow. It's only an early dungeon." You don't get that with WoW.
Blizzard needs to hire like 40 people aged 18-28 who has never played wow and monitor their progress over like a year to see where the barrier to entry lies and then fix it.
Blizzard won't even pay people to monitor the illicit activity happening within the game that damages the game. What makes you think they'd ever, ever, EVER, consider paying people for an experiment?
Barrier to entry is box price + monthly subscription. This is simply an outdated way of monetization, for MMOs especially. Younger generations just aren't having that.
@@vicv3940 you're saying the generation that literally grew up with everything being some form of subscription service are against subscription services? x to doubt mate.
@@vicv3940 yep true, i'm 22 and in college, and have played wow very casualy, basically go to max lvl and do normal, maybe heroic, i want to play, but i don't want to pay 12$ a month, plus 50$ for dragonflight, and even if i play classic it's 12$ a month, i can't play the game "freely" cuz i always feel like i'm on a timer to enjoy th 12$ i spent for the month, also i don't always get to play, depends on my exams and such, and if i happen to have a free 2 weeks and buy a sub, it's uselest if it's at the end of the patch, most people already have everything so less people to play with, and can't farm it more seriously, since the gear i get will be nullified by next patch anyway
@@splinte111 What are you talking about? 18-24 year olds aren't the generation who grew up with subscriptions. The most popular online games with that age bracket are games that are completely free to play. Over 24 years of age? Yeah sure maybe you can make a case for subscriptions being normal, any younger than that isn't the generation you're thinking of to make your case.
I am 22 and have summerbreak from uni.started playing a week ago. After you complete the new exile map, you are thrown into the deepend. It just sucks that nobody in the community is open for new casual players and all the content is overwhelming. I am about to quit.
I got dragonflight, and it came with 30 days game time. I made it about 24-25 days before I quit. I may not have thought about it(as an ex league player), but the people leaving mythic+2 or flaming mythic 0 new players kills the game hard. Almost make sense the game ended up like this when the community first coalesced on eliestist jerks.
Can't state enough how much Classic, especially Classic WoLK is better as a game. Please give classic WoLK a try. This version of WoW, 8 expos later, just sucks. It's been twisted into something awful. The original game mechnics were great, they killed it after Panda expo.
its always been that way short of a few nichi things like lust/ divine shield and battle rez.. but since vanilla all had a hard hit cd, a kick, spammers, and dump attacks. so idk what kool aid people are on about
100% lots of real good ppl I know are unemployed or Chinese student that just wasting their tuition money on chicken shit programs then go back to China once they graduate. I know this because I am 2nd generation Chinese Canadian and I was in many Chinese guilds.
I play since Wrath. Last year I invited my best friends to play the game, and there were so many things that they needed to learn that they understandably lost interest after a couple of days
Main thing is the way people play the game. When a new person plays everyone tries teaching them the most optimal way to do things instead of just letting them play and learn.
@@Metalbladelawncare If you let new people play WoW, they quit straight away. The story is convoluted, and the game makes you jump from one area to the other without giving motivations.
@@Metalbladelawncare Often, if you don't do things optimally, you let down your whole group and you can't complete a dungeon/raid - it's in the core of the game and probably there is no way to have challenging but beatable content for all people.
I played some WoW back in WoD, i wanted to play PvP, never was into raiding and stuff, and boy was i dissapointed, the thing i despise the most is addons, the whole concept of downloading 3rd party shit to get an advantage is appaling to me.
I think the popularity of hardcore mode, where the focus and enjoyment is found *inside* the levelling experience rather than at endgame, might be a better indicator of what people actually want.
you literally can do that in classic wow. no need to do hardcore. a new player still wouldnt know where to start in a hardcore mode. classic wow is just simpler, and retail wow just has WAY TOO MUCH going on.
@@justsomeguy4422 Oh absolutely! I agree. Both classic and hardcore show similar things. When people were done with classic, hardcore gave them reason to basically do it over in a different way, and it also shows how much fun people can have repeating the levelling experience when it's actually fun. People want to have that fun, but with retail wow being as contrived as it is currently, too much emphasis is put on reaching endgame and it's too time consuming, boring and complicated to even get there anyway. So the ideal would be to have a great levelling experience and a fun endgame experience as well, but the endgame should be considered more of the icing and a cherry on top of the cake.
Another problem is the PvP isn't fair at all. During Legion, they had BGs and Unranked arenas with everyone on the same level and gear barely gave a difference. The game was just FUN.
@@Jifran I fully agree. This is the time that i actually played PVP was when gear didnt matter and there were stat templates. That was the best time of WoW PVP for me because it mirrored LoL in a sense.
I used to love doing PvP in Vanilla and TBC. One of the biggest reasons I stopped was for the reasons they're describing. Mostly given back in the day I knew everything each class could do and could play intelligently without having to no-life PvP. Now it feels like everyone can do everything and classes are all overlapping into each other and I can't keep track of everything.
I still play World PvP on classic, it’s a lot less competitive and I like that, it’s just a fun engagement most the time. Unless it’s a rogue. Fuck rogues.
@@TheStanDudley It's a problem across all of modern gaming in my eyes. It's the same reason League doesn't get any new players. I tried playing so I tried watching a coach to teach me the basics. Dude looks into the camera and says there are over 90 champions. Don't expect to even be passable for 1k games. I'm just sitting there doing the math and am like so saying games are an average of 25 minutes. That means I need to play for at least 25,000 minutes just to escape bronze. Thats 17 days played to just not suck. Nah fam I'm good.
I started playing WoW last year as a brand new player before phase 1 WoTLK came out. Played through all of phase 1 and most of the way through phase 2. I learned a lot about the game, got pretty geared on 2 characters and got bored of waiting for weekly resets. Hopped over to dragonflight and I am so lost on what I should be doing that I can't even comprehend what's going on.
fr. my friend bought me dragonflight after years of not playing and even in a dungeon I was so clueless as to what was happening. its so overwhelming visually.
I feel this. I played 12 years ago, right before Cata, then quit after 6 months. I resubbed to try WotLK Classic because it's what I knew, and there's no way I would know what to do with the current game today.
if the game tells you exactly what to do it would not be a game it would be a tutorial and it would not be fun. Nowadays there is quite a lot of information available online about every subject ingame that you are interested in and it is one click away. It wasn't the case back when the game was released and we still figured it out. In my opinion there should be more things left to players to figure them out.
I was a new player during Shadowlands and it was a frustrating experience. Luckily I had experienced friends who showed me what addons to get and how things work. That helped the learning process. Can't imagine how tough things would be for solo players.
When I first started playing I opted to do legacy content because it was so much easier to get into then the current expansion because I understood nothing 😭
I started WOW during the Sylvanas in Shadowlands patch coming in as a competitive player from other games like League or CS and then I got humbled so much as I had no friend to show me how it was done as they were starting after me, and I quickly discovered how toxic experienced Wow players are in raids and M+ if you don't know the specific timings of cooldowns, pull timings, rotations, stuns, interrupts, damage dealt and etc. for not even keys higher than 10, it's crazy actually how sweaty the game gets at some point. After that I found a guild that showed me around and in a week I got a grasp of everything but man was that a fucking pain to learn. I literally didn't know what bloodlust was as a hunter and I had someone on a heroic dungeon ragequit after cursing me. The game is super fun after you learn it but people need to think about how new players view it.
I tried to come into wow from ffxiv. Was having fun coming through the game, then i hit cap..and i was hard stuck trying to figure out how to just enter pvp and pve endgame after doing lfg. Guilds felt so hard locked and trying to find a guild/people was so hard. Spent a day on it and went back to ff. The other stuff was annoying but nothing that turned me away. It was the fact that i couldnt get in to participate in the endgame. Not everyone wants to be super competitive. But wow community really felt like it wanted that
Maybe offer to help some people leveling alts by running them through dungeons or something and see if they’ll return the favor. Idk. That sucks. I think it’s just so labor intensive and time consuming that you have get them to feel like they’ll get a return on their investment. Or go in bgs and actually listen to the people who are trying to organize. Run with them for awhile. Prove your worth to them and they’ll give you an invite. At least when I played. There were a lot of people who wanted to organize the battleground but a lot of people would just run to the middle and start killing the other team. You don’t necessarily have to be that good. But just show you’re willing to be a team player and be an asset to their team.
@@forfun6273 The problem, I imagine at least, is a lot less of people not existing and more finding them. Lfg leveling isn't super talkative, and then you just feel like you hit this wall where you sorta needed to meet people but the only place you could've was people mostly going zombie through leveling to get to the endgame. Coming from the outside in (and honestly, I even kinda knew from playing other mmos for so long) it was just a very weird wall. I get that for WoW guilds are a huge thing, but the system to look for a guild was impossible to find something if you were someone who wanted to do a bit of everything. It also really felt like guilds were absolutely what you needed to get into to takes steps further and tbh, this specific area felt like the issue. As a comparison point, in FF my static isn't even on the same data center/server at this point. We were never in a guild, we met through party finder (Kinda like a custom post of the lfg thats used for group quests.) I can't say I know the solution, but I can say that is a point where myself and the friends I know of have hit the wall and given up.
Yeah, PvP was always my main source of enjoyment in WoW.... But around Cata/MOP era when EVERY class started acquiring more CC spells and CDs.... It's more of a mental exercise than anything. That comparison you made using the vanilla WoW r14 VS arenas now was pretty spot on. The game is bloated, and PvP gives me a headache with everything you need to keep track of (and don't get me started on people's arena UIs....... I literally cannot comprehend them).
I do really miss back when CCs and CDs made a difference, when you actually had to mark for sheep and trap, when things like soulstones and jumper cables had a much bigger impact. And if you didn't properly utilize marking and discuss your pulls, you would get demolished. I found those complexities to be wonderfully fulfilling, but I think it's way to late to go back to something like that.
This is a great take. And applies to other aspects of WoW. Let’s say you like casual games based on fantasy settings. You see WoW on one side and something like Genshin… remember this is a new young player… what looks more appealing? Heck, if you prefer more mature games replace Genshin with Elden Ring. These modern games are sprawling while still letting you be respectable pretty early. WoW is not just a grind, it’s complex above and beyond “enjoyment” for a new player
@asmongold In Vanilla through LK I was indeed invited and accepted into dungeons and raids with zero experience and poor gear. This was specifically because some raid groups back then did not care about maximizing everything and did not require all raid positions to be filled to complete the raid. Back then unless you were running hardcore difficulties or in some competition it was fine to have some sub-par players in your group provided your core team was solid. That said I am not debunking as I did witness the "Bank Inspections" (usually in IF? It's been a while) but that was usually a group that did not have a solid foundation and was looking for core team members. Back then the bigger issue was being denied any gear drops as you were not part of the core team.
I was watching battlefield friends recently, and it never really seems like the people who take the game seriously, actually have any fun at all doing it. Playing at the core level is legit like having a job to me. All the elitism, cliques. That stuff has always existed to. Blizzard has just made alot of stupid decisions over the years. Both in wow and with the operations of blizzard. People are getting lazy to. I mean, look at the boosts. Pay to instantly not have to play the first half of the game. There were always people to lazy to level. But now it is endorsed by blizzard with a paywall.
@@qunt100 Another is that leveling does not mean anything. back in classic/vanila you learned how to play your class when you levled. I remmber when the mastery stat came out in late Wrath I think. what happen was that I looked at my tallents and a lot was if I had no mastery the tallent would be useless so I did not pick it. so what happen was that from level 1 to max you used one set of tallents as as soon as you started to get gear whit mastery you switched the tallents spec and how you played your character. becuase now the tallents would work and they was for the most part way powerfull. then come the gimic thing from each expansion that just made what ever you did before useless. oh Holy priest you healed in dungeons 1-59 whit Holy light a single target spell. max level got this expansion gimic never use Holy Light again you use the AEO spell Holy circle then you pop a Protection stone 10-15 feet from the Holy Circle spell. and thats it. you then cast regenerate on who ever drops bellow 70% HP (if they dont have it).
But no one wants to do anything other than the most tip top tier of anything, lower tier doesn’t matter because the attitude toward new players - the only games I have patience to look up guides for is Minecraft and Warhammer 2 - having played Vanilla and learned alongside experienced raiders, them gladly helping me (but not giving me everything I needed) to get my Dreadsteed is still probably the greatest memory I have - and it’s not able to be done that way anymore. Sadly BC killed my chance to raid beyond the one MC run I did. Karazhan was awesome for me as a result, then the guild crapped out 😂
That's the one thing that was really nice about GW2, you could go straight to PVP without any strings attached and be ready to go. That is why the game has a very lively PVP aspect.
what a great video and the arena queue perfectly encapsulates the effects of the issue. every time venruki says, “arena” or “solo shuffle” you can replace that with “raid” or “m+” and the point will still apply nine times out of ten. world of warcraft has always had an accessibility issue, and frankly a new game is probably the only way to fix it
@@ahall9839 Well, yes, it always had. If you are new player, you have to do all these boring quests to get you max lvl, and then you have to gear up, but not in best gear, firstly you have to get blue-pvp gear, and only then you can start sucking not in bg but in arena. And then you suck for about 30-40 hours against guys who play this game since 2005 (oh damn, they really beat you up). Well, now you have your purple gear, best you can have, you have learned how to use all of your 20 buttons properly. You have been 100 hours in the game, now it's time to finally play, and then you open the game and realize that the season is end, and in new season your class is suck, so now you have to do all these stuff again. Have fun. I'm actually a big fan of world of warcraft, i don't play in other mmo or something, but difficulty in starting your game experience makes troubles for all players, new and old.
@@anywaylose3999 "Wow has always been inaccessible. That's why I love it and play it for hundreds of hours even though it's boring. Also, it was a behemoth that defined the MMO genre, and nothing could match its success or even compete. Boy was it inaccessible!"
@@anywaylose3999 I didn't have any problem when I started 15 years ago. and when I got a little older and was able to reach endgame, I had no problem getting gear to do endgame stuff. and when I got into PvP I had no problem getting PvP gear. There are tiers of endgame and there always has been. Tier one gears you for Tier two and so on. same with PvP. you start in battlegrounds. And the game clearly outlines all of it out for you. If a new player actually had a problem with any of it, then they've never played an MMORPG before and they clearly don't like the genre, or they only have one lone braincell.
This is the first season ever I've actually bothered to properly gear up for PVP, learn all the gear systems, etc and it's 100% because of solo shuffle. I don't even care that queues are 15-20min. It's a fucking blast. This is the most WoW I've played since probably WoD launch. Gearing was honestly pretty simple. I went from greens to conquest cap over the last 3 weekends playing completely solo dps. The only sad part is the open world feels super dead, not a lot of open world pvp going on.
I think alot of the game dying is because there is no real reason to group and meet people until max level and even then it's rare. Join que then once in group it's rush to the end and yell at people who don't know the mechanics. I met most of my wow friends questing in open world trying to beat the hard quests and dying together till we figured it out. I play hardcore now because people are still grouping to do quests but the problem is eventually all your new friends die.
I remember I met most of my wow friends during BC and vanilla by leveling from 12-40 with them. The exploration was exciting and the quests were engaging. But most importantly because we didn't have fast travel we needed to travel together and chatted it up to pass the time. It was a special feeling and I miss it deeply
@@33rdframe Most AAA games aren't design for the player's enjoyment nowadays. They are designed for revenue generation. MMORPGs are not treadmill progression games. They are social roleplaying games. The adventure is an excuse and a reason to be there. The game is supposed to trick you into spending time with others. Oh it's an elite mob quest. Oh it's a dungeon. Oh you guys can work together instead of competing for mob spawns for this quest, and one of you is a crazy tank so you start pulling 10 mobs instead of 2 or 3. The product of a MMORPG is supposed to be the experience - The experience you had when meeting your wow friends and leveling with them. It's not supposed to be solo-play dead world MTX shops.
I have a boomer colleague at work who played back in TBC. She wanted to go back in for Dragonflight. I tried to persuade her out of this, telling how much have changed and the absolute need for addons to play at acceptable level. She ignored my advice and played anyway, but quit as soon she hit Dragon Isles saying it was very overwhelming and she felt like she played a different game, she said "like an ubisoft game", and that leveling sucked cause she "didn't feel like she accomplished anything"
I think a part of it is the longevity of the game. The chasm between new players, those that play for a few years and veterans is too big to maintain a sense of community and helping people figuring out the game like "this is the game we play, let's lower the bar for blueberries" instead of "adapt or die". Nobody wants to help new players, no new player has the need od making friends that could be more knowledgeable if the systems get less complex. Hard to find a common ground in mmorpg
Well what Ive experienced in wotlk is that alot of people invited me for some quests which just were muuuch easier as a group. But nowadays leveling as a group is slower than solo + everything is focused on the end game sadly. I really enjoy leveling in wotlk but in dragonflight Im just bored.
some of the most fun I had in wow in 14 years of playing it was at the end of BFA. I played a geared guardian druid with all TD corruption gear and would come home from work on sunday nights ( my friday from work ) get trashed and help out lowbies with keys. I loved helping people and having a blast just blowing up low keys pulling half the dungeon but my tolerance for people just derping around trying to make it more difficult than it needs to be was low. I get it that new people exist but when you try and help them out and they spit in your eye for it or dont take advice, that turned me off to helping a lot of people with specs and gear etc.
I loved guid wars until they implemented AI teammates and people quit wanting to party. When they removed the community aspect it was no longer an mmo.
@@Kampfcookie100 My friend made me to try classic again and man, the nostalgy is huge. Yesterday I was questing in westfall and found an afk lvl 80 paladin so i just started dancing at him for fun. He then started dancing with me and helped me clear up some defias bandits i needed for quest :D This is what wow should be about man ♥
I would imagine if people were serious about becoming a top tiered competitor in any video game, then picking a game and just deciding to "try hard" until you get there is probably not the best idea. Figuring it all out on your own as you said would be a daunting task for anyone especially a new player. I imagine they would be smart about it and join some kind of team that can teach you everything you need to know and get you setup for it, helping you practice and learn until you finally reach that milestone that you want. By comparison athletic sports have teams, they practice together, they get better together, they learn and teach and help each other stay competitive. On the other hand, WoW is so much more than just arena battles, or various pvp game modes. I can't understand why players literally ignore basically the entire game just so they can duel each other. It just seems like a slap in the face to the developers.
There are also instances that some people claim that them being competitive is a their form of relaxation, like the human mind is so fucking weird man and I just dont get it, there are so many things to be done in irl and you want to project those in a video game. My only conclusion to all of these is that it all boils down to pride and ego, nothing else
@@primecoconut4204 What's the difference between video games and literally any other hobby? There are competitive aspects and people in every hobby. Video games just happens to be soccer 2.0 because of its accessibility. What's the difference from the local guy who takes weekend park basketball super seriously versus someone on a video game?
basketball guy is probably fit, healthy and finds irl friends :D we players spend countless hours looking at pixels that dont matter.Its definetly true that real life hobbies have more benefits@@ShaggyRogers1
@@primecoconut4204 then your conclusion is just wrong haha why are people weird that enjoy being competitive in games. So many things to be done in irl, yet you chilling in a youtube comment section, talking down on other peoples lifestyles. take a loot at yourself
Yea, any serious players will look up guides on rotation and gearing to learn how to min/max and optimize their class performance. I honestly think the amount of abilities is fine.... it might seem like alot at first, but you learn it over time. A casual player can just button mash their core abilities with 5-10 spells at most and stilll do decent dps..... but for those who want to be more serious and learn their rotation, it can be rewarding to optimize their rotation with all the abiliites and cds. Also, instead of PVE if u PVP then you will end up using alot of extra utility stuff that will come in handy to counter classes that u might not use in PVE. I hate when blizz tries to prune abiliites because they take away alot of the cool unique class defining spells and utility like the Grounding totem example for shaman.
That was my problem when i played wotlk classic as an entirely new player. I didnt know what are addons and even the essential addons. My dungeons felt so terrible without any indicators from the vanilla display of the bosses and such. Ff14 did it much better and that I didnt even need to read guides and the game had indicators where i didnt need addons. The problem with this game is that the help doesnt even come from the devs, it comes way too much from players.
@@xLamont_ you skip pretty much all the lore that isn't the current expansion, maybe you see a little of the previous expansion, but not enough to actually understand the big picture
@@xLamont_you can't play the game in the right order to understand the lore behind it. If you knew how to do it u would spoil yourself and you had no reason to replay it in game.
Reminds me of FFXI. Everyone wants new players, but no one wants to waste their own time bringing up new players and there’s no path for them to catch up on their own.
True. 2001 birth year here. I still remember the times before smart phones and social media but I was too young back in the day to experience the gaming culture. I envy the people that had this fantastic days back in WoW Classic. A MMO is meant to be a social experience.
I was born at the right time but missed out on the WOW craze due to living in the middle of nowhere with dial up internet. 😂 I remember the only source of gaming news I had was my mom taking me to Barnes & noble and I would hurry and thumb through every gaming magazine because no way I could spend ten bucks to actually buy it. That is how I discovered the next great game oblivion coming out… Good times 😅
As someone whos never played it and has heavily debated getting into it. Its the time commitment, learning curve, and constant cost. It's 200 cad a year just to play, thats insane.
I played the game since Burning Crusade, maxed my first Character in Wotlk, got PvP gear every season by having fun in Bgs and arenas, was raiding since Ulduar and got ahead of the curve everytime since WoD and even had time for twinks. With shadowlands it went downhill for me. I logged in most of the time, ran around for a few minutes and then logged off, because I was so overwhelmed by the game and I didn't know what to do. (Still got ahead of the curve in Castle Nathria) "Shadowlands just wasn't my expansion" I thought and was ready to go really hard in dragonflight. Same thing. Overwhelmed by everything. The talent trees, the new profession system and countless other systems. I felt I had to study first in order to play a "game". I rather played Classic or any other game, where I can turn the game on and the brain off. Now this comes from a player that played this game for 15 years. Imagine having new players enter this mess. Forget about it.
I agree about the buttons. My peak enjoyment was wrath arcane mage with 5 buttons, blood dk in mists and WOD, and demon hunter in legion. All of these I rolled with with 10 ish buttons, including CDs.
Back in the early to mid 2000s I played Guild Wars. The pvp in that game was amazing. You could choose to make a pvp only character or take your pve character into pvp. The pvp only characters had max armor and weapons and you could customize them with runes, etc to your playstyle at anytime.
This. Wow Gladiators pvp should have the same system. Have experience earned be transferred to main and allow over chars to be used on in pvp to allow for custom end game pvp builds. Would allow for new players to immediately play pvp, bolstering numbers while allowing vets to benefit from higher population and builds differing from the pre mades.
This is exactly why I love playing specs like beastmaster or evoker, not too complicated, tons of movement so mechanics are a breeze, can actually enjoy the raids/m+
As opposed to all the other MMO's? If you don't like gear progression in an MMO then I don't even know what to tell you. It's like you and others on here haven't even played the game in years or something. This is how WoW has literally always been, and most MMO's are too.
@gorilla30100 I don't like that you have to pay for the game, then sub. Plenty of mmo's have sub base for specific perks. Why do I have to continue to pay for content I already paid for. Lock lfg and other features behind the pay wall. Let me play the content I already paid for. At the very least make better content that has more permanency and less continual grind. Vanilla WoW at least felt worth a subscription. Imo
@martinalegre5524 it was not like it is now. Way less gear permanency now. Some gear from vanilla/bc I didn't have reason to change until close to the end of Wrath. If you spend months+ grinding "end game" gear it shouldn't be almost immediately useless in the next expansion. It feels way more like a waste of effort. Beat the end game content and don't care about grinding the full set unless you want the transmog. Just keep increasing numbers insanely on gear until they need to do a stats squish again.
IMO, rotations felt best in Wrath-MoP. CDs actually lined up and the whole thing felt like there was effort put in it to give the sense of FLOW. There were not 10 million modifiers. Your base spells felt good to use and actually did damage. Using your CDs was a noticeable boost in damage, but without 10 million modifiers the stars can't align to blow someone up based not on skill but RNG. There was a large difference in performance between skilled and bad players as well as a result. Today's rotations feel cobbled together with things that don't fit, CDs don't matchup, etc. I just can't force myself to play retail because of this. As for PvP, if Blizzard puts no effort into WoW PvP then why should players care? For 19 years so few actual mechanical changes made specifically for PvP like change durations of CC against players, combine a few DR categories, and added effects like dampening to try to fix the issue of healer mana needs being different in PvE vs. PvP. Compare the development time put in PvE vs. PvP. In 19 years they've never thought to give one of the three roles in the game a purpose in PvP. You can't tell me in 19 fucking years no one has gone, "hey, should we maybe try to make it so one of the three roles actually works in PvP?" I mean Jesus Christ Warhammer basically solved the problem for you which came out the same year Burning Crusades did, and SWtOR fixed the issue of CC (in theory) with the idea of a single bar below the health bars where there are no DR categories to worry about. You are Blizzard... you do best taking existing ideas and polishing the fuck out of them. You could have stolen these two ideas and even combined them, with the tank specs doing less damage but in exchange be the ones with more potent CC and resistance to CC. You have had 19 years to innovate and have done NOTHING!
I think part of the complexity issue is having so many skills accessible at the same time. Having a lot of options is good for diversity, but only if you have to make hard choices about what you are going to use. Take GW1 for example. Tons of skills, but you gotta pick 8.
I think the worse part of wow is if you want yo max out in the game, the game has to be your only game. You do not have time for other games. When I first started playing wow I didnt get to experience any of the ps3/360 era of gaming until at the end of the life cycle of those systems.
Did you try DF at all? I can log on literally once or twice a week and do my keys or something and you don't have to do anything else. This isn't true for the game at the moment.
Jeez I’m just now realizing this is happening to me, I’ve got my own game console that I used to play every day, So many games that I had kept up with, And then when I turned 15 earlier this year I started playing WoW, Ever since then WoW has been the only game I’ve been playing. Barely even touched my other games or any of the updates coming out for them
Mmos do this. Missed ps2 and ps3 Era playing CoH, WoW, SWotoR, ESO, warhammer ect. The world's andnsense of accomplishment couldn't be matched in single player games. The next phase is mobile gaming and those systems are now tearing through AAA gaming, simply designed to waste your fucking time and spend money in a cash shop to stop the pain.
The first time I tried raiding I sat around at nax for like 45 minutes. Then got my gear inspected and asked if I had done nax before. Got kicked for not having any raiding experience and never bothered again.
They should emulate FFXIV party finder, you don't apply to groups, you just join them. This way people have a chance of proving their worth before they get judged. You can also form private parties with passwords if you want to filter people. Do you sometimes get below average performers? Yes, is it overall a better system? Yes. People do clear in PF, and there are parties for duty complete (must've completed it before), duty completion (aiming to clear) and practice (wipefests).
Guild Wars 1 had PVP where you could get in almost as easy as counter strike. They did it that you could create a PVP character, which had acces to max gear, so you had a level plain field.
One of the reasons why I am excited about the AI dungeons. I can do it whenever I want, at the pace I want and no worries about how I perform. If I want to try tanking, no worries. No complaining about the pace, the route and such. I hope they will include M0 dungeons just to help people learn the mechanics for doing m+.
I remember joining a GW2 guild a couple years back and I was told to watch a 49 minute video on how to do the raid step-by-step. While I'm completely willing to understand that some guilds/groups are in the business of running this shit as fast as possible, I was COMPLETELY NEW to raids. If you are going to accept new players or players new to raids, you're probably insane to think that sending them a lengthy walkthrough is going to make them what to play. I don't think WoW or in my case GW2 is difficult at all, it's just that people are impatient. The old days of wiping 5 times to the boss to learn its tricks is over (unless you're playing right as a raid launches) Now it's "oh you can't keep up? we don't need you"
Wanted to get into WoW before eventually picking a different mmo during the pandemic. It was super hard to wrap my head around all the systems I'd have to interact with to do anything. Let alone all the addons I would be required to get.
rule number 1. dont assume you NEED addons. only get them when you feel you want them. i tell newbies everyday ingame as im part of the ingame mentor program to let the desire come organic not forced. those feeling forced 9/10 leave game. those that grow into dont.
Bro, I have a PHD and was a glad in WoTLK and Cata. I tried coming back in BfA and Shadowlands. It felt like every 2 seconds I was discovering a new convoluted power system. There was so much to farm to be top tier. So many new systems to learn and sink time into. Addons and rotations are out of hand. You damn near need an addon to manage your addons. Even as someone who knew the game at a high level and can learn shit pretty quickly, I hated it.
New(ish) player. Hooked on Classic. Leveled Alliance and then Horde toons through Classic, TBC, and Wrath. Organized a raid team. Ulduar geared. I took a few months break from Wrath to play Classic and Hardcore. Came back to Wrath and found that I can't even walk into the latest campaign dungeon because my gear score is too low. I don't know that it's the game as much as the players who are unforgiving.
i am a r1 mage and recently i made a char on warmane. it took me half a day to get everthinf set up. i am running around 20 addons and have 20 macros. on top of that i needed to get BiS geared using my creditcard. after all the trouble i had to find a teammate too which is another pain. so yeah who in their right mind would do that edit: and i know what i am doing, imagine starting and clicking your buttons while idiots like me exist running a techno clownfiesta for playing
I mean... give classes back their uniquness - mages can do portals, conjure food etc. - but when it comes to fights give every class 10 spells tops - including CDs. That way you can think of interesting fun stuff to give classes that does not come into play during fights and you can make fights simpler - and then if you wanna keep the difficulty, just keep the boss difficulty, its hard enough these days just running around mythic let alone pushing 30 plus keybinds
Love or hate the game, that's the core of why I love OSRS. The simplicity is nice. I only played a little WoW a few years ago, but I really loved the feel of my class being unique and tailored to me. There's a happy middle ground there that sounds super fun!
started playing wow for the first time with one of my friends during the pandemic. I mainly played osrs as my mmorpg, and I have played thousands of other games. I understood the basics about the game but had no idea about the many many specifics the game has. Pretty much stopped playing after the pandemic because i wasnt really sure what do besides dungeons and occasional pvp (but pvp annoyed me because I would just get stun locked)
The problem is with people having a standard for having a “rotation” rather than just doing damage. I don’t want my class to have an expectation of a rotation I wanna play my class how I want.
When I played the game as a kid (vanilla/BC/Wrath) the most third-party influence I had in my game was Atlasloot and googling Thottbot quest guides for particularly dodgy quests. Didn't even have DPS meters on my client until Wrath where it seemed to be more important, or maybe I was just getting more into raiding than before. Anyway, I think there has been a crazy leap since ~WoD or Legion where the addons are practically playing the game themselves. It's insane. Not even the raid addons - I think the PVP addons are even more egregious. I would rather they outlawed all addons. Simplify the game if need be..
For PvP, do what they do in GW2 and let you Max-level PvP from like level 6. You choose all your talents, maybe there are presets, but you scale up and hop right in.
Ever since I started in Wrath I wished there was something that equated everyone's ilvl in BGs. I always wished the participation in PvP content was facilitated
The problem with that is they are horrible at scaling. You tried running a dungeon as a 50-60? Watch the lvl 12 mage 1 shot everything while you do almost nothing
As a new player that started few weeks ago i feel this so much, enjoyed the story yes but when i tried to do heroic raids after i did them all on normal it was a such a jump in difficulty for me the game doesnt explain how to gear where to gear and enchantments and stuff like that at some point you feel like you dont progress :/
as someone who quit wow at the beginning of dragonflight for a new player clearing all raids (no clue how many they released at this point for df) on normal you are already on a good way if you want to keep playing. There are people who play for years and dont go beyond lfr
imo - researching the complex intricacies and finally mastering them is extremely satisfying. Where and What is the Best Gear? How do I play the best? What are the pros doing? etc.
Here’s the thing, the game is about community. Find one that fits you best, search around in the guild finder. Don’t feel obligated to stay if they don’t fit your preferences, and ask questions.
@@fortuitous1983 this! Community- and Blizzard has done about all it can to ruin that. Which is why I play on private servers 99% of the time, even though I also pay for a subscription and have purchased every expansion since wotlk.
One of my favorite memories in WoW was rolling a Holy Priest in late WotLK having never healed before and doing Koralon the Flamewatcher in crafted blues and vendor epics. The fight is mechanically simple alternating between heavy raid damage and heavy tank damage. You don't have to move iirc. But even as technically undergeared as I was I was still top healing, least overhealing, no deaths, and I went OOM the moment the boss died. I've never felt as perfectly tuned for a fight as that one moment and I didn't need the wild mechanics and rotations the modern game has to feel satisfied. Making the game superfluously more complicated just raises the barrier to entry and creates more opportunity for failure. Given that all the endgame content is group content, if every other player is a potential point of failure, and WoW is designed with increased opportunities for failure, then you're just wasting so many people's time with needless wipes on raids and dungeons, and inting in PvP.
Healing in Wrath is still my favorite experience I ever had in WoW. I played resto Druid after having tanked in bear form all through BC, and I had finally found my calling. I had a rotation where I could even keep up with both tanks during Patchwerk in Naxx, and after raiding I felt exhilarated. Then Cataclysm came out and they absolutely destroyed resto Druids by gutting their HoT spells, and making a cast spell the primary, so after four years of regular play I hung it up. I felt exhausted after every raid, and with the new “triage” style of healing they implemented people constantly died to flames and green stuff, and the healer of course gets all the blame because they don’t know where to stand. I tried playing classic but the community isn’t fun now. I had so many online friends back in the day, but this new generation hates socializing, then wonders why they have no friends.
all my friends started playing classic, one started then 2, then 3 and now they have 5 people getting on daily, it's so wholesome and I think I might start playing too
the next expansion should have a massive event pre expansion "the time reversal" and all addons are destroyed, core rotation massively reduced. Then the next big release is wow 2 to support a more streamlined game with a instant access PVP mode that is separate from the core game, and links to your MC for achievements etc.
I like how in classic wow have so much buttons but they are so versatile you end up using 1-3 at a time, but thoughout the game you're using pretty much all of them, you have options for ever aspect of your gameplay and not just 20 buttons to do damage. its insane.
That arcane mage part blew my mind, like I remember when arcane mages were a meme for being a braindead 3-button rotation, like they were almost too boring to even play so you would just go fire if you wanted to raid
I've tried multiple times to get back into the game (left after WotLK). What deters me is two things: - All the addons you NEED to install and set up and tweak, different addons for different classes etc... Just a pain you need to do before even starting playing the game. - Second, I just want to get to the end-game and start raiding, but the road there is soooo long. I don't give a fuck about questing and leveling or the story. And the world is so big that the people on the server are spread so thin across the world that you don't often see many people (when leveling up), making the world feel dead. And there's so much to do, back and forth, you see people running from quest to quest like a zombie or an ant, not socializing. All this makes leveling up unbearable and not fun for me.
I dislike how if you stop playing for a bit, it's nearly impossible to find groups for raids and pvp because you're way undergeared for that season. I know the gear has always been a big issue in the game, because some classes feel they scale way better with the gear, but if you don't have the gear, you aren't getting into a group. The other issue is that people are impatient with things, and if you make a mistake because you're having an off day or something, they berate you with message and such telling you to kill yourself or to go die or just wish ill on you and your family. Who wants to deal with that? Most people play games to destress and have fun, not to get more stressed out and be told to go die or something. The community has gotten to the point of borderline MOBA toxicity, and it's sad to see.
The game stopepd being fun in Wotlk when people just started to respond with "Gearscore?" That was all it was. Before that I felt you could charm your way in
@@alltidtratt3564 gearscore and the IO. Rating or whatever it's called. I can understand having a certain vers rating for pvp, but even so I wish they'd find a different way for pvp damage reduction and what not so that part of the game is more skill based versus gear based.
If you don't play for a week you're definitely behind of the curve, and the great vault is a huge offender. Before the borrowed power and the vault, the only thing you missed if you didn't play for a couple weeks was (maybe, depending on luck) gear from raids. Now, you're missing 2 high ilvl items with no chance of recovery on top of that, and this creeps more and more the more resets you miss. I always advocate for the vault being removed completely.
@@Rhob81it's very true. The vault is not needed at all. Last time I played, I didn't play since last season, and was a bit under the gear curve for a battleground and died to a backpeddling hunter. That was unacceptable. Dying to a rapid fire ticking 35-45Ks. That was when I ended my subscription to the game lol.
@@alltidtratt3564 also the problem not in Gearscore only but the gear started to be too universal, its always stamina and main stat, we need to come back to Vanilla ideas where every item was unique and interesting
They'd have to do what Guild Wars 2 does where PvP and PvE are separate. You can make a level 1 and zone into the PvP zone and you'll instantly be max level with all your skills and talents unlocked as long as you're there. Also instead of having to worry about gear they put all the stats on a swappable amulet
That doesn't mean there isn't elements of it that can be taken and used to make a different game better. If wow had a "pvp lobby" where you could start playing arena right out the gate with a new character I don't see why that wouldn't be an improvement.
One thing that really frustrated me coming back to play wrath classic, was being gate kept by two phrases, "Whats your gear score?" And "do you have such and such addon?" i shouldn't need 10 addons just to play a game. And my gearscore shouldn't matter on introductory raids/heroic dungeons!
One nice thing with FF14s's PvP is that it's totally separate from PvE, everyone's at the same level based on the job they're playing and it's very simple to learn, especially with the somewhat recent changes. Complexity comes down to player decisions and utilizing your job tools and universal options. Plus the PvP jobs are built entirely on their own from PvE and while they tend to have much of the same ideas once you unlock a job you're set to use it. You can even level the job just from PvP, the PvP queue gives a good chunk of exp. It's not perfect but it's a lot easier than how WoW has it.
@@TatsuyaWow True, they added that in Wrath iirc, it's largely the simplicity, ease to get in at earlier levels, separation of PvP from PvE and that the roulette bonus is massive that I like a lot. It's about a level a day just from the 15 minute frontline. Plus every job in the game can be on your one character so you can freely try any of them in PvP.
Expect for a new player FF14 pvp is pretty much just as confusing to new player as wow pvp is. Theres so much stuff going and you most of time you dont even know why you died.
@@Vilhomatto You got a few universals and 5 or so job buttons, the game modes are fairly straight forward and accessible. 99% of the time if you died it's because you were surrounded by enemies, don't get caught out. Sure it would be better to add more tutorial for it but there's very little learning curve compared to 1. Hit max level on your character if you want to do competitive PvP at all 2. Learn what spec is used for pvp 3. Learn what gear and consumabes are used for pvp then obtain them 4. Learn other classes varied and vast tool kits that they can use against you. 5. Wait in que for 30 minutes for a game Compared to simply obtaining the job you want to play (which you can have all on the same character), learning your 5 buttons and then picking up things like "this job has a stun, this one has a very telegraphed and dangerous aoe, you need to move as a group, stun and kill healers." 72 man que times for frontline are very rarely more than 3-5 minutes on any given afternoon for a reason.
@@noyou6216Might be easier but it sure as fuck ain't better. FF14's pvp has NEVER even once been regarded as better than WoW's, nor it will ever be. The problem is that the casual has become the norm, so doing chores in a video game is frowned upon; people just want everything handed to them, and yet also cry about how different and soulless the game feels... like, pick a side. If you want easy you're not gonna be fulfilled. Gearing in WoW can be brutal, but it's a part of the process and much doable if you do it early.
I’ve tried getting into WoW a few times since 6months before shadowlands. I remembered always hearing about it as a kid, but never playing cause I couldn’t afford a PC. I finally could, but Jesus fuck I need an encyclopedia to know how to take a shit it feels like.
I've been playing wow for around 6-7 years and my Fiancé wanted to play it with me. ITS SO HARD for her to understand what CC's, Prots or q's or what her own abilities do. Quite literally hand held her through the game and she was still overwhelmed by it all. :(
I feel like that's probably true for almost any 20yr MMORPG that has changed so much over the years though. Of course you are going to be diving in to the deep end, it's 20yrs deep.
I remember in wrath as a fury warrior having an addon for slam procs, other than that it was a two button spam rotation, unless there were more that two targets, then you would keep sweeping strikes on cd. Mash two abilities, wait for slam procs and I would top dps meters.
A problem I find with WoW -- playing FF14 which also, if not more so, has complex rotations -- is the speed the game expects. I play a Black Mage in FF14 a few bit of the time, considered one of the hardest jobs, yet I find it relaxing cause each spell press offers me time to reflect on what comes next and prepare for it. In WoW I play an Arcane Mage, which again, similar to BLM, considered one of the hardest specs to play. I enjoy my magey wizards, that's all! What I've noticed is that with the difference in GCD, playing a spell caster that stands still in WoW is a nightmare. The expectation you have to get all your casts off at such high speed ends up ridiculous, while I'm 2 spells ahead in mind as BLM and can keep track on the boss too, with Arcane I often fall behind when Timewarp is up, nevermind able to react to the boss. It's a clusterfuck most of the time, I enjoy the spec but hoooly do I not want to imagine trying to actually play it 100% optimally in something like high end m+ or worse, mythic raiding, whereas I can enjoy BLM in savage and extremes. It just doesn't feel like a spellcaster to me, none of the specs do as opposed to older content, and it's funny how I feel way more mobile on my BLM with so many instant casts and so on while even with faster casting speed and arcane barrage free movement I feel grounded. Perhaps cause FF14's combat works in such a way you can easily maximize it, but WoW's fights are such messes most of the time and abilities come flying so often and constantly that those mobility options get depleted quickly. I feel it's an issue WoW has escalated its fast paced combat over the decades, to the point it needs to either prune a ton of buttons from specs at this point for better tight knit rotations or change back to how vanilla felt, without stuff like haste and where each ability press had weight behind it, how FF14 does it.
Another few things is that FFXIV's team prioritizes new players, they cut quests in ARR, added flying in ARR zones, allowed a player to enter dungeons with NPCs (i.e. single-player), have a system in which veteran players are doing old content in the form of roulette, make the jobs easy to learn (though they gutted the difficulty a the end game), and the biggest thing gives a lot of option such that you do NOT need mods or add-ons.
I almost went insane when I heard that Black Mage is one of the hardest jobs. I played a Fire Mage for 15 years and Black Mage seemed so extremely easy and slow in comparison. WoW really makes you count fractions of a second, and if you don't you're last on the Details meter.
@@coolyeh1017 Actually they don't allow you to use mods or add-ons that encourage you to berate other players in game. You can get softbanned for telling a player that their damage or healing is too low, or removing them from group and stating not doing enough healing/dmg etc. FF thinks those things are toxic and lead to bad experiences. Blizz don't care about bruh toxic ecology in wow.
I always wanted to play a caster for range but I’ve been a melee dps at heart when I played WoW from vanilla to Warlords. I Couldnt imagine having to stand still constantly when every raid boss requires everyone to move all the time. I have wanted to get into FF14 it’s raid bosses seem fun. That’s what I miss most about WoW was the raiding content, that’s what kept me interested for a decade
I think a lot of problems, well most at least, could be solved if WoW just did the GW2 route. You can buy GW2, log in make your character and immediately do their PVP. Go to the mists and PVP all day, earn rewards etc. Sure you'll miss most of the content but you have the choice to PVE or PVP and the best part, in the mists the gear doesn't matter from PVE, everyone is on an even playing field iirc. It was some of the best pvp experience I had. GW2 vets can probably elaborate more on the state of PVP NOW, but, GW2's system could be a step in the easier direction.
I really loved how Guild Wars did the spells with buttons. you had a like a lot of spells. but you could only bring 8 in your spell bar. that spell bar was the space you could fill up. you had to make choices of what to pick was truely amazing! everybody had a uniek class because of it! there where some obvious ones that where really good. but most of the time every player played so differently
Ahh, GW1, the classic. Gotta admit I spent a lot of timing theorycrafting and playing around with builds and such. Getting a new skill was legit exciting.
That's exactly why I disagree when people say "classes should only have X amount of buttons of this kind, Y amount of buttons of that kind, etc". I like having tons of options, so I can choose which suit me the best, rather than the class being streamlined to choose for me which buttons I'll use and everything else being discarded. Though I'm also glad it's not like Guild Wars, but that I can choose to use more than 8 buttons if I want (but I suppose a good compromise would be that for solo content you can use everything, while for grouping and PvP you have a slot limit, as grouping/PvP are indeed problems, way too complicated for a new player).
I haven't really played in years, only dipping into SoD for 2 weeks before burning out again. That said I still care about this gane and wish I could enjoy it like I did 10 or 15 years ago. As a general template, I think no rotation should involve more than 3-6 abilities, plus 1-2 situationals like interrupts or CC and maybe 1 movement. The fewer abilities a rotation uses the faster OR more complex it can be with procs and whatnot. There can still be outlier specs that spike in complexity. This would fit thenatically with Arcane Mages to play off the "magic as science" fantasy. I really enjoyed the speed demon Enh shaman who had an extremely simple rotation but stupidly fast GCDs. Also enjoyed Wrath shadow priest, managing 3 dots while mind flaying and using MB on cooldown. Even with simple stuff like this there was room for optimization like deciding whether to cut off the last mind flay tick to cast mind blast when available or refresh a dot. Now I take a look at rotations and just want to go play something else.
I've played WoW on and off since the game came out. Mostly with irl friends. And each time I return, I get more and more of the 'new player experience'. Sometimes that's a good thing. Like getting to explore all those new area's, quests, dungeons and so on. But then you also get new mechanics and gimmicks that don't actually make the game more fun or flexible, but just more tedious or convoluted. And it only gets worse the close you approach endgame content. If it's like that for a returnee, I can't even imagine the frustration a new player must feel :/
It’s weird as I started off in wow around mist of panderia on my mom’s account and never really took the game seriously. I recently got my own computer and started to take wow seriously about 3-6 months ago and seeing how raids and dungeons function made me realize that there is a lot more to keep track of. A month ago all I knew was I am a DPS and to just make sure I keep my buffs timed to combo bursts of dmg as a frost DK. I have looked up guides on how the class works and the rotation (which thankfully is ez to remember) now i am looking for the feedback of my own performance to see if I am even timing everything right. There’s no default dps chart or disruption/interrupt count, just seems like you need to know either a command or have an add-on. As a “new” player I think 10-15 buttons is very reasonable especially if most of them are buff rotations and better feedback on my own performance would allow me to adapt faster in figuring out what gear I should be using or if my rotations have any effect on the battle. In raids your competing with 17 other dps for dmg so when you see the HP start melting it’s hard to tell rather if it’s you doing it or if it’s any of the other dps. My current spot with the game is that I’m stuck in progression. I can’t find a group to run normal or heroic raids with and I get declined from any mythic dungeons despite having 3 mythic+ dungeons already on my record wearing less powerful gear.
Idk how popular Classic is now but that feels so much more new player friendly. It's kinda funny because a few years ago retail was always called the casual one by older players but compare Classic to Dragonflight and it's crazy how complicated DF is.
A good example was Enhancement back in like Cata/MoP era. Stormstrike (melee autos and storm strike itself could procs free strikes on occasion and gives extra maelstrom), flame shock, lava lash spreads fire shock, bolt at 5 stacks of maelstrom. AoE was Crash Lightning (a cleave version of Stormstrike) a fire nova button (makes your fire shocks do aoe damage), and you'd chain lightning instead of bolt. That was it. Simple but fun. CDs were wolves and bloodlust (maybe a racial if you were a troll or orc for example, but that gets macrod into your wolves for ease of use. Anything else was a passive or one time use for a long lasting effect (shields, weapon imbudes) and you can drop all your totems with one button.
It's worse, abilities are intertwined and are prerequisites for each other, spell 1 is a generator for spell 2, but spell 3 has a talent that if you use it before spell 2, spell 2 deals 20% more dmg. It's jsut confusion shitshow unnecessary clutter, cata had the best balance of complexity and pattern spamming classes. Mop and legion follow up on those really well, and make the game alot better through complexity in the right manner, but they also make the game increadibly complex for anybody who hasnt played an mmo.
Unpopular maybe but when Venruki is explaining everything you need to do to start playing WoW, i actually really wish i could relive that This feeling of unknown and progression, the mistakes, the discovery, the innocence, the feeling you get when you start entering in the big game Nowadays, i know everything i have to do and it demoralizes me to start an alt despite wanting to play them but at max level so i keep playing a single character and i get borred and just hope with get CE as soon as possible so i don't have to do a M+ key per week I often actually really likes the early weeks/the first half of the raid. I push a lot of keys in the first 2 weeks of this patch (was top 100 rio) and we got curve + 4 first bosses and it was very cool But the moment i was full gear, the dungeons level were getting annoying and we got to post nerfed Zskarn, my enjoyement of the game really went down. Im glad Neltharion is an enjoyable fight
Well during Legion you had PvP Template where having the biggest Ilvl only got you some small boost to your stats and everyone and their mother cried about losing gear prog or being able to customize their stats where they can stack more crit,masery or haste etc. So id say the community arent on singular note on how to deal with this. Atleast gearing for PvP now isnt so hard but the game just doesnt feel that fun tbh.
Yeah, things were fun when it wasn't usual and also expected that everyone just looks up everything and follows the meta. Not sure, though, how to get back to that situation.
This was fun to watch. Something that I wanted to comment on is that, while also dislike Jump King and Only Up, I don't agree with them being used as examples of backwards progression. For me they're more of a "rogue-like platformer". I think a lot of people would argue that Rogue-like games are the standard of "backwards progression". But what I consider progression in a game like that is: improved muscle memory, understanding of techniques, and emergent game mechanics. I don't consider climbing to the top of the junk heap to be progression. I consider it to be a goal. Does that make sense or am I alone in this way of thinking? For me this is different than a puzzle game or RPG game. In a puzzle game, if I reach a fail state in puzzle 12 and am then asked to resolve puzzles 1 through 11, that is backwards progression to me, a punishment. If I am playing an RPG and reach the end of a dungeon but die, redoing the dungeon doesn't feel like backwards progression to me. Were I to lose everything I earned in the dungeon up until that point--including rare, low droprate items, I would consider that backwards progression (btw most standalone Final Fantasy games growing up were this way but they were typically easy enough). WoW is not an RPG, it's an MMO. Team play and designed-for-groups content is explicit. But, while not immediately obvious, as Asmon says towards the end here, it does punish you for reaching a fail state in a raid. You lose both time invested and rare materials. Time invested in running to and from locations and regrouping--while often not needing to reclear trash you must retread ground. And secondly, the materials invested in buffing. I will never forget how tanks in classic to cata have to pay more for wipes than other classes. Not to mention losing world buffs early, or the time it takes to reform a group when someone drops out. And for me that's the most egregious of them. Regardless if I'm solo or with a friend, being asked to spend time doing essentially nothing (running over 5-10 minutes from our respawn point back to the action), that's a pain in the ass. But it's so much worse for content that requires group co-operation. In a perfect world, the devs intentions by having people lose world buffs and expensive buffs, and needing to run back to fights, etc, was both for immersion, and limitation. In games whose existence, fun, and systems don't work right without an active community, often-times limits are put in place to allow the community to remain active for longer by preventing small but dedicated groups from "beating the game too quickly". I personally can't stand when power levels are locked behind this time-gating mechanic. Cosmetics and for-fun loyalty rewards? Have at it. In WoW not only is all of this other stuff we've talked about apparent, we ALSO have time-gating mechanics and limiters on raids. Beat a boss? You're locked to this instance. If a group who hasn't beaten this boss wants to do it, it's gg for you. Because lord knows we can't have you getting all the good gear right away. But....at a certain point good gear was needed to CLEAR the raid. So what IS the status symbol? The rare gear? The mount? Being able to fight the last boss of a raid? In my humble opinion, being able to SEE and INTERACT with raid content, should NOT be limited for the sake of PROGRESSION. The rare 1% drop chance can happen only once per day, right? That's not difficult to implement. Retail wow has group loot fr cryin' out loud. I think I whole-heartedly agree with Asmongold here. If your game only caters to people who can play it FOR A LIVING, you can milk money from that feedback loop, but you will bleed players. Take Rust, how do they get around it? If Rust was only Vanilla, I think it would die lol, quite frankly. But thankfully you can make your own servers. Lots of people play on servers with double gathering and resource rates so they can experience the game as a 10 man group, in a 2 or 3 man group. They can lessen the impact of loss. That's not the best comparison, but Rust is about 10 years old and still going strong on Steam--not to mention it appeals to people who like the thrill of total loss. And though Rust isn't the BEST comparison (because any solutions offered by this comparison might not apply to WoW), it's definitely worth comparing. Games like Rust are like hybrids of a rogue-like with an MMO and Battle Royale. Warframe was my first MMO. It's very RNG heavy and grind heavy, and for a long time infamously not friendly to beginners or players who aren't hooked. And it's very funny to me that the MMO I knew as the king of MMOs growing up, WoW, is behind them in this regard. Now should that be obvious? That a later version of a thing in a genre would be better? Maybe. But they started with much less.
18 year player and still at it. This past expansion, I've introduced my children to WoW. I can honestly say there is a huge skill cap and comprehensive layout that you must attain in order to truly explore and experience the game. Sad to say, I do not believe that with Gen Alpha coming up WoW will survive if they do not evolve. I strong think the should consider a new game engine to start their fountain for future generations.
True. I literally remember being like 8-9 years old learning the game from my uncle and healing in dugns and having so much fun bc it was easy to get into I fell in love with it. I recently got back into it and for the most part I can understand the game but getting my lil brother into the game the first thing he said was “this game looks way too hard and complicated” lol
I was much more addicted to wow than any other game (I think, in part, because I was much younger when I started), but I will say that I got much further in lost ark (in that I could keep up with the end game) and had much more fun in ff14 as an adult who works a full time nursing schedule. I mean I still kept my “wow friends” but none of us play wow anymore. I think there are just many other games that provide similar functions, without as much “work”. Ff14 is a great casual/social game where you can literally just RP if that’s what you want, I also feel like people are nicer. Lost Ark has a much more seemless raiding experience, while still having enough mechanics that it feels like a challenge.
as a fan of Fighting games, I have a ton of respect for pvp MMO players. thats a whole lot of dedication and perseverance, the sheer will to log hours to gain in-game skills and armor instead of just switching over to Street Fighter or Guilty Gear and just jump straight into online vs.
I love how most of the complaints of WOW pvp are solved in FF14. Get to 30, set up your 12 buttons, que in, have fun. That is it. Some people make it harder for themselves, but that is person to person. Gear dont matter. Rank doesnt really matter. Just get in and have fun. Plus it has egirls, money and fame 😂
I don't want to go back in time or forward in time in the same zones...it's stupid confusing especially for new players. Trying to explain to new people why there's 2 Dalaran cites and not being able to interact with your friends because they're on a different timeline and Undercity only exists in the present if you talk to Zidormi and go back in time...wtf...just stop fucking up the old maps!
@@rodrigofreitas1316 As a warrior, from my open-world-only never-max-level-pvp perspective, rogues were an almost honest duel if they wanted one, while warlocks were a purple snacc that gave you heartburn. Hunters though, i might as well /sit and find where the graveyard is right now, there's no way in hell I can kill them between the 5 different slows and the pet, and Charge isn't castable in combat because that Technology hasn't been invented yet.
I tried WoW for like 30 days straight because I wanted to get somewhere with it. I made a Tauren Druid, and while I had a relatively good time, I can’t say I’d recommend it. As a new player, I found a lot of things generally confusing. I did give the Game a Fair Shot, but in all actuality the only story points I REALLY remember are part of Warlords of Draenor. And say what you want, I really enjoyed Warlords of Draenor. Like a lot more than I was expecting to.
For a little context, the reason why people rip on Warlords wasn't because they didn't like the content. It was ironically everything _but_ the content that people didn't like. People were waiting on all these zones, raids, and systems that just never got added, the release cadence was at that point some of the worst it had ever been, the garrisons were rated highly at first and were fun to build, but ran out of gas quick along with the rest of the expac... ..So just like with every other expansion, it was a really solid foundation to build off of that they just left wasting in the wind. Retail itself is kind of like a garrison with plot after plot but no buildings.
@@Arzoden And make the story more rewarding. Raids and mythic dungeons shouldn't be the only way to get gear upgrades. Doing quests in the world should reward tokens that can be traded in for mythic raid dungeon gear. Much like we used to be able to do in WotLK from daily heroics...
So WoW is a tough one. I played it from the beginning, enjoyed it, and did what I've done throughout the years...play till I'm more or less 'done' with the story, disappear, come back for next expansion. Repeat. But the issues listed here pretty much apply to even PvE type players too. New content is great! What I DIDN'T like was needing to reinvent how things were done. Like...the way I used to tank as an *insert class here* no longer works because they've completely changed how it all works. And now here I am after not playing for a couple of years, and I basically have to restart in order to relearn the game again. It's just...it's not accessible to anyone who isn't going to consistently play on a weekly if not daily basis.
24:00 As a mage i agree, also the thing that isn't mentioned in that rotation guide is you also have to be on the move, you have to dodge mechanics and properly do mechanics to aid the raid. So on top of trying to maintain all those states you have to throw bombs to people, make sure you are doing things to the right adds which spawn in, stand in the right areas and also weave in your defensives at certain times so you don't get one shot by that mechanic which WILL one shot you unless you have there two defensives active.
@@krelekari Yeah but those guys are toxic anyway. Or the groups who do that. Though you do feel worse a player though and that alone can cause you to not seek out activities with others. I know as a mage before this update i didn't try make a push group with my mage purely because i wasn't sure if it was me that sucked or i was just getting bad luck. I know i could pump out some good dmg but some times i couldn't repeat those states. Just a real head fuk if you ask me.
They need an in game rotation helper for new players. The best players essentially set this up themselves with addons, and weak auras. But something like i think it was called herorotation would dramatically make the game more accessible to new players, help then perform, and allow them to push harder content, making them stick around.
They already have more rotation helpers than they know what to do with. Every class already has a build and spend core rotation with ability procs that they constantly need to watch their actionbars for. That little game of Simon Says going on at the bottom of the screen takes up way more of my attention than anything my character's going up against. I don't want to stare at my actionbar anymore. Classic doesn't force me to do that.
No new player dosnt know as in case to create an DH level to max lvl to buy Guild equipt or how its called so he can level his first character faster. Stuff like that ISNT explained if you dont have an friend What jobs should a new player learn? Why do i get kicked out of dungeons cause im new and try to learn? Theres so much stuff happening to new player Wow is just to hard for new people.@@degan1919
I tried to get into it like a year ago, got a account to lvl 50 of 60, but there was just wayyyy too much of a learning curve, nobody got time for all that unless you live with someone who’s been playing forever and show you the way
Imo Wildstar hit the sweetspot there. 10 abilities on your bar, iirc, but you learned more than that so you could create several loadouts and choose which abilities to use. The combat was action combat with boss encounters that WOW-like/FF XIV mechanics. And I do agree that some people (not everyone obviously) likes the fact that there is a lot at stake when to lose. The hardcore community shows that such people exist.
I got my wife playing wow but if not for me mentoring her and leading the way and answering her questions she’d never have caught on. It’s just too much. It really is.
Same, my wife showed interest in wow it was too much for her. I got her a little invested by moving her to classic and using the controller add-on. But we just play Diablo 4 together now and it’s a lot easier for her to navigate lol
And getting new players to try and get hooked would benefit from a robust "mentorship" system like ffxiv has, where people are rewarded for going out of their way to help people learn the game but have they done that either? FK no... smh
@@KiIowatt People who do the mentor program in FF14 for the mount almost never actually help players. They're doing the same toxic shit that is being done in wow. Maybe these mentors are leftovers from wow, actually.
women ☕
Even playing it for the first coming from classic wrath it was super overwhelming.
I think an important factor for new players is the attitude of ppl who have played the game for 5-10 years towards players who make mistakes in a +10 key after having played for 5 months. Their first thought isn't to try and help or ask what happened, it's to leave or flame. I got my friend into the game and I see them dealing with it, every few weeks they get encouraged to quit the game. And these are the people who are gonna be confused when the game dies.
Wow's community is completely toxic. Even in Classic if you don't have the game memorized from 2007 and play a certain way people will flame you. No one in questing areas anymore. No soul. Horrible.
Biggest problem with the game is the community.
You even have people who brag about not having played for years but still follow every update to insult the game and dont get how bad of a look that is.
elitsm is a real problem and i find myself guilty of it - its just not fun to play with 'bad' or new players since they dont know what keybinds are, they keyboard turn and many more things
except for when its a premade and he/she wants to teach him/her the game its not fun to play with randoms that are new players
I played with many new players and if they are learn resistant i instantly quit because they wont go far with this off meta talent build and having their kick on alt gr numpad 5
ive seen some that wanted to learn and others were to big of an ego - thats life i guess?
Lol this guy got mad at me for marking him so I could follow him easier through the key. Ive only played for a few months and never done the dungeon before. Wow players are insane.
Kinda sounds like boomer land lord and today's young generation. They always act like they don't know why younger generation don't wanna have kids.
I tried to play for the first time during Shadowlands and level to 50 in BFA. For me, leveling up and story was like joining at the end of a party when you missed all the fun and couldn't enjoy it because everyone had already gone. And I had 2 funny interactions with players in leveling zones. First in Draenei starting zone and the second was in Nazjatar. They asked me what the hell i was doing there and when i told them i was a new player they reacted like they saw a unicorn.
probably because they did
I had similar feelings. The game just felt dead and the amount of bloat from all the dead content still in the game didn't help either. I would come across some new game mechanic only to find out on google that said mechanic has been dead for years at that point so there was no reason to do it. I leveled to 50 and I don't think I had one other player even attempt an interaction either. MMOs are a dead genre in general compared to what they used to be.
@@TheTriforce100it's hard for casual gamers or anyone who has little effort or slow learners. Also, a lot of wow players have garbage UI, can't use keybinds, and stand in fire.
Leveling is a terrible experience for new players, really terrible. They gave all of us old players the ability to speed level in our favorite expansions, but what does that do for a new person? You just see some of the plot pieces but not all of them. By the time your max, you haven't even completed everything in the expansion before you move into the current stuff, so whats the point?
It's all built under the assumption that "hey, this is WoW. You know this, you've played for 15 years already." If I was totally new coming into this game for the very first time, this late in the game, I wouldn't last a month. Too many systems, too many currencies, too many expansions, too many skills, too many quests, too much everything. It's a bloated, tangled web of old outdated game assets with new seasons and gear slapped on top of it. Not to mention the new player servers are dead, fucking desolate deserts of nobody. So even if you were to level up to max, who are you going to play with? Queue up cross server with people you'll never play with again for a dungeon or a raid.
Yup seeing newcunts is like "wtf why"
"ALL YOU HAVE TO DO, is these million things before you ever play the game. Not that complicated" which is the very definition of "it's complicated". WoW's relationship status would be listed as "It's complicated".
You don't even have to do any of the things said in the video to play the game. Just because some top 10 streamer tells you how to play the game doesn't mean you actually have to play the game that way lol. Y'all are sheep i swear.
@@john24110 You really need to get your eyes checked if you think I'm blindly defending anything. Cope harder idk what to tell ya buddy.
@@john24110 Bc there is nothing to argue lol. You made an inaccurate assumption and I answered. No point in arguing lol. You like beating a dead horse?
I did a normal dragonflight dungeon the day after DF launched. It was my first wow dungeon in YEARS since I hadnt really played since Legion.
Some random mechanic that I didn't know knocked me off the platform and the group insta kicked me.
Uhh. Apparently I was supposed to have watched videos of normal dungeons to know all the mechanics or play them all on PTR????
WoW community literally has no patience, they kill their own game.
WoW retail players are entrenched and elitist about being good at this game.
Im sure it wasnt a collective realization for them that you didnt know the mechanics(maybe it was but i doubt it) but if you played in older expansions where RDF tool was prevalent for leveling you might have experienced the same thing and i believe its not about elitism really(maybe sometimes it is but generally ive never experienced in normal dungs).
Its mostly that RDF Dungs were so easy that people dont even look at what theyre accepting ive been kicked like 2-3 times like that from leveling in RDF years ago just cause someone didnt like something i did or failed a mechanic as u said and the others just simply clicked "Accept" to remove the pop up from their sceen without even seeing what is it about.
I doesnt happen often but it sucks big time when you just waisted 15minutes and you got kicked for literally nothing.
@@peppermint3808your the reason why the game gonna die😂 then your gonna cry foul 🤣pathetic
@@peppermint3808lmao the dude had to comment twice, so much salt hahaha
Not gonna respond to that other guy but ya you shouldn't have to look at a guide for normal mode dungeons especially when the game never prompts you that the adventure guide is a thing you should use, it shouldn't be brainless but mechs should be able to be intuited.
And when I fell off the platform in FF14, when I respawned dead on said platform again, one of the healers rezzed me almost immediately and we got on with the rest of the battle.
How much shit did I get for my mistake? None. Not a word. I didn’t get kicked either. They just raised me and got on with it.
Last time I tried got back into wow was in Shadowlands. Halfway through getting my bis pieces, I got this impending sense of dread, like a "what the hell am I doing??" type feeling. I logged out that very instant. Haven't played since.
You know a game is truly shit when it induces a looming sense of existencial terror while playing lmao
@@pl3bxThat's a personal thing. Happened to me with Runescape, as I sat like a drone for 9 hours mining.
Every expansion is the same game just different art it’s why I can’t do it anymore they never innovate or add anything new. The only “new” things they add is art. Otherwise have fun doing dungeon raids pvp or boring ass open world nothing else changes.
Same but with BFA. Modern WoW is fucking trash.
if the systems were easier gearing up in wow is the most dogshit thing, lvl 70 dragonflight - do world quest/weekly heroic quest or heroic dungeons to get gear to be able to start doing low keys, get low key gear to be able to farm mid key gear to be able to farm high tier gear to eventually get mythic best in slot and the same for raids, what the actual fuck
It’s funny how every wow stream when I used to watch them, the streamer is always doing exactly what this guy is doing: jumping around waiting on a queue that never comes 😂
what? that's not what i see when watching jokerdtv, payo, pshero, etc.
@@RyzotThat's because they're all playing Classic
@@Emidretrauqe retail has no queues it's all instant
@@Ryzot lmao nope
@@Emidretrauqe yes, no queues
classic wow OG mage rotation: frostbolt. after casting frostbolt, cast frostbolt again. keep doing that until the mob is dead. if you have a trinket that does more damage, do that somewhere inbetween.
I only play one character anymore and I only play through the story once. I don’t do anything competitive anymore. He’s 100% right. It’s all too much.
I like how all WoW players do this 'hanging out in a city' thing where they just jump on rooftops and onto random objects while waiting for queues or whatever
Literally half of my /played
I've never played wow and I still do this in games when I can move around the world in a game waiting for queues to pop
This is the way
All it takes is getting into it, then the game has you
Me in OG Org waiting for raids to form as I bounce on the Bank 😂
The most popular wow streaming content right now is classic hardcore by far and it’s because people can understand all the gameplay, understand the objective and understand the stakes of losing.
popular for watching, however wrath has more people playing.
@@Ryzotwrath is full of bots
Retail has been dead for a while. DF is nice but didn’t fix the longevity issues at all
It's just hype because it's the new thing.
So classic is a better starting point for new players? I wasn't sure if the newer game has enough QoL improvements that it has an advantage over classic
As a newer player (wod) I constantly got kicked out of raids with no explanation at the beginning. I didn't even know what I was doing wrong.
I began in BC and quit in Legion, my final straw was many a guild I encountered complaining bitterly how no-one knows their class/role and raid mechanics. I was told to go f myself and gkicked for having the audacity to suggest we teach newer players.
WoW has a downright terrible community and I'd had enough of it.
@@rustyhowe3907to be fair, average player skill is insanely low. I consider myself to be *baseline* skill, and I still had, when content was current, multiple 1st places passes on multiple mythic bosses back in WoD. I *sucked* and I could still be #1, and basically everyone else I raided with was significantly worse, dying in the fire over and over.
@@flinchy-5224 Oh I fully agree with that, in my experience players (at least when I was on) was either god tier level skill or absolute n00b.
Raids weren't *as* simple as now buuuut they were also getting easier to handle even back then.
Unfortunately everything in the game takes tooooo long and having to explain people's mistakes would make it even longer. So, people are expected to know what they're doing so less time is wasted 😢
Started in Mists and honestly, I'm glad I got into a guild that actually gave a panda's behind about new players.
WoW's issue and why so many have gone to FFXIV is that it's not friendly to new players. Toxic players helped ruin the game and Blizzard's been listening to those sweaty and toxic players, killing the game.
With XIV I felt comfortable enough to try tanking and healing and when I said "I'm a new healer/tank" most of the time the playerbase understands "Okay, cool, take it slow. It's only an early dungeon."
You don't get that with WoW.
Blizzard needs to hire like 40 people aged 18-28 who has never played wow and monitor their progress over like a year to see where the barrier to entry lies and then fix it.
Blizzard won't even pay people to monitor the illicit activity happening within the game that damages the game. What makes you think they'd ever, ever, EVER, consider paying people for an experiment?
Barrier to entry is box price + monthly subscription. This is simply an outdated way of monetization, for MMOs especially. Younger generations just aren't having that.
@@vicv3940 you're saying the generation that literally grew up with everything being some form of subscription service are against subscription services? x to doubt mate.
@@vicv3940 yep true, i'm 22 and in college, and have played wow very casualy, basically go to max lvl and do normal, maybe heroic, i want to play, but i don't want to pay 12$ a month, plus 50$ for dragonflight, and even if i play classic it's 12$ a month, i can't play the game "freely" cuz i always feel like i'm on a timer to enjoy th 12$ i spent for the month, also i don't always get to play, depends on my exams and such, and if i happen to have a free 2 weeks and buy a sub, it's uselest if it's at the end of the patch, most people already have everything so less people to play with, and can't farm it more seriously, since the gear i get will be nullified by next patch anyway
@@splinte111 What are you talking about? 18-24 year olds aren't the generation who grew up with subscriptions. The most popular online games with that age bracket are games that are completely free to play. Over 24 years of age? Yeah sure maybe you can make a case for subscriptions being normal, any younger than that isn't the generation you're thinking of to make your case.
I am 22 and have summerbreak from uni.started playing a week ago. After you complete the new exile map, you are thrown into the deepend. It just sucks that nobody in the community is open for new casual players and all the content is overwhelming. I am about to quit.
this community sucks for sure
play classic and leveling is gonna be an adventure you’ll never forget
I got dragonflight, and it came with 30 days game time.
I made it about 24-25 days before I quit.
I may not have thought about it(as an ex league player), but the people leaving mythic+2 or flaming mythic 0 new players kills the game hard.
Almost make sense the game ended up like this when the community first coalesced on eliestist jerks.
Can't state enough how much Classic, especially Classic WoLK is better as a game. Please give classic WoLK a try. This version of WoW, 8 expos later, just sucks. It's been twisted into something awful. The original game mechnics were great, they killed it after Panda expo.
The thing I miss most about my WoW experience from back in the day was class identity, everything does anything these days.
Exactly. The class fantasy is gone when every class has a version of every ability.
@@recontiger7114That’s why we have classic. Go play that instead
its always been that way short of a few nichi things like lust/ divine shield and battle rez.. but since vanilla all had a hard hit cd, a kick, spammers, and dump attacks. so idk what kool aid people are on about
ok so u like lcassic were paladins dont have a literally fucking taunt even as a tank, and u like as well that ret sucks because my class identity?
Ah yes, rogues heal people.. Right?
It feels like a job not a game.
If it’s like a job then you’re doing it wrong
@@BlindingSun_ or maybe, just maybe Wow at least before was just no good. Just alot of ppl liking that new players can't come in and play the game
100% lots of real good ppl I know are unemployed or Chinese student that just wasting their tuition money on chicken shit programs then go back to China once they graduate. I know this because I am 2nd generation Chinese Canadian and I was in many Chinese guilds.
I play since Wrath. Last year I invited my best friends to play the game, and there were so many things that they needed to learn that they understandably lost interest after a couple of days
Main thing is the way people play the game. When a new person plays everyone tries teaching them the most optimal way to do things instead of just letting them play and learn.
@@Metalbladelawncare If you let new people play WoW, they quit straight away.
The story is convoluted, and the game makes you jump from one area to the other without giving motivations.
@Metalbladelawncare ya unfortunately true. But also it's pretty unavoidable in this day
@@Metalbladelawncare Often, if you don't do things optimally, you let down your whole group and you can't complete a dungeon/raid - it's in the core of the game and probably there is no way to have challenging but beatable content for all people.
@@karkius Also a problem I guess, that people feel the need to optimize their playtime, because they hate playing the game. That's not a good starter
I played some WoW back in WoD, i wanted to play PvP, never was into raiding and stuff, and boy was i dissapointed, the thing i despise the most is addons, the whole concept of downloading 3rd party shit to get an advantage is appaling to me.
WOD pvp was awesome. Played Hunter with no add-ons. Most fun I had playing wow since classic 😭😭
I think the popularity of hardcore mode, where the focus and enjoyment is found *inside* the levelling experience rather than at endgame, might be a better indicator of what people actually want.
That`s a good point
you literally can do that in classic wow. no need to do hardcore. a new player still wouldnt know where to start in a hardcore mode. classic wow is just simpler, and retail wow just has WAY TOO MUCH going on.
@@justsomeguy4422 Oh absolutely! I agree. Both classic and hardcore show similar things. When people were done with classic, hardcore gave them reason to basically do it over in a different way, and it also shows how much fun people can have repeating the levelling experience when it's actually fun.
People want to have that fun, but with retail wow being as contrived as it is currently, too much emphasis is put on reaching endgame and it's too time consuming, boring and complicated to even get there anyway.
So the ideal would be to have a great levelling experience and a fun endgame experience as well, but the endgame should be considered more of the icing and a cherry on top of the cake.
Another problem is the PvP isn't fair at all. During Legion, they had BGs and Unranked arenas with everyone on the same level and gear barely gave a difference. The game was just FUN.
@@Jifran I fully agree. This is the time that i actually played PVP was when gear didnt matter and there were stat templates. That was the best time of WoW PVP for me because it mirrored LoL in a sense.
WoW deleting Addons would never happen but it would be AMAZING to experience
I used to love doing PvP in Vanilla and TBC. One of the biggest reasons I stopped was for the reasons they're describing. Mostly given back in the day I knew everything each class could do and could play intelligently without having to no-life PvP. Now it feels like everyone can do everything and classes are all overlapping into each other and I can't keep track of everything.
I still play World PvP on classic, it’s a lot less competitive and I like that, it’s just a fun engagement most the time. Unless it’s a rogue. Fuck rogues.
@@mattcler7849nope it’s fun
@@TheStanDudley It's a problem across all of modern gaming in my eyes. It's the same reason League doesn't get any new players. I tried playing so I tried watching a coach to teach me the basics. Dude looks into the camera and says there are over 90 champions. Don't expect to even be passable for 1k games. I'm just sitting there doing the math and am like so saying games are an average of 25 minutes. That means I need to play for at least 25,000 minutes just to escape bronze. Thats 17 days played to just not suck. Nah fam I'm good.
Unpopular opinion but I think it's good. This is coming from someone who has tons of experience in the game though
@@ScottOverholt-z5i its more after that long you will know if your good or not
I started playing WoW last year as a brand new player before phase 1 WoTLK came out. Played through all of phase 1 and most of the way through phase 2. I learned a lot about the game, got pretty geared on 2 characters and got bored of waiting for weekly resets. Hopped over to dragonflight and I am so lost on what I should be doing that I can't even comprehend what's going on.
fr. my friend bought me dragonflight after years of not playing and even in a dungeon I was so clueless as to what was happening. its so overwhelming visually.
They need to make some good tutorials, lots of them.
I feel this. I played 12 years ago, right before Cata, then quit after 6 months. I resubbed to try WotLK Classic because it's what I knew, and there's no way I would know what to do with the current game today.
but... the game tells you exactly what to do
if the game tells you exactly what to do it would not be a game it would be a tutorial and it would not be fun. Nowadays there is quite a lot of information available online about every subject ingame that you are interested in and it is one click away. It wasn't the case back when the game was released and we still figured it out. In my opinion there should be more things left to players to figure them out.
I played for 10 years and i still have a hard time seeing what is happening in a arena game 😅
Even LoL and Overwatch is hard to watch for me. Unless its from 1 persons perspective, I find it hard to get into watching team e-sports
I was a new player during Shadowlands and it was a frustrating experience. Luckily I had experienced friends who showed me what addons to get and how things work. That helped the learning process. Can't imagine how tough things would be for solo players.
its a living hell 😅
When I first started playing I opted to do legacy content because it was so much easier to get into then the current expansion because I understood nothing 😭
These games are so huge and have so many systems from years and years of expansions, someone being the tourguide is the only way.
I started WOW during the Sylvanas in Shadowlands patch coming in as a competitive player from other games like League or CS and then I got humbled so much as I had no friend to show me how it was done as they were starting after me, and I quickly discovered how toxic experienced Wow players are in raids and M+ if you don't know the specific timings of cooldowns, pull timings, rotations, stuns, interrupts, damage dealt and etc. for not even keys higher than 10, it's crazy actually how sweaty the game gets at some point. After that I found a guild that showed me around and in a week I got a grasp of everything but man was that a fucking pain to learn. I literally didn't know what bloodlust was as a hunter and I had someone on a heroic dungeon ragequit after cursing me. The game is super fun after you learn it but people need to think about how new players view it.
Same
I tried to come into wow from ffxiv. Was having fun coming through the game, then i hit cap..and i was hard stuck trying to figure out how to just enter pvp and pve endgame after doing lfg. Guilds felt so hard locked and trying to find a guild/people was so hard. Spent a day on it and went back to ff. The other stuff was annoying but nothing that turned me away. It was the fact that i couldnt get in to participate in the endgame. Not everyone wants to be super competitive. But wow community really felt like it wanted that
Maybe offer to help some people leveling alts by running them through dungeons or something and see if they’ll return the favor. Idk. That sucks. I think it’s just so labor intensive and time consuming that you have get them to feel like they’ll get a return on their investment. Or go in bgs and actually listen to the people who are trying to organize. Run with them for awhile. Prove your worth to them and they’ll give you an invite. At least when I played. There were a lot of people who wanted to organize the battleground but a lot of people would just run to the middle and start killing the other team. You don’t necessarily have to be that good. But just show you’re willing to be a team player and be an asset to their team.
@@forfun6273 The problem, I imagine at least, is a lot less of people not existing and more finding them. Lfg leveling isn't super talkative, and then you just feel like you hit this wall where you sorta needed to meet people but the only place you could've was people mostly going zombie through leveling to get to the endgame. Coming from the outside in (and honestly, I even kinda knew from playing other mmos for so long) it was just a very weird wall.
I get that for WoW guilds are a huge thing, but the system to look for a guild was impossible to find something if you were someone who wanted to do a bit of everything. It also really felt like guilds were absolutely what you needed to get into to takes steps further and tbh, this specific area felt like the issue.
As a comparison point, in FF my static isn't even on the same data center/server at this point. We were never in a guild, we met through party finder (Kinda like a custom post of the lfg thats used for group quests.) I can't say I know the solution, but I can say that is a point where myself and the friends I know of have hit the wall and given up.
Yeah, PvP was always my main source of enjoyment in WoW.... But around Cata/MOP era when EVERY class started acquiring more CC spells and CDs.... It's more of a mental exercise than anything. That comparison you made using the vanilla WoW r14 VS arenas now was pretty spot on. The game is bloated, and PvP gives me a headache with everything you need to keep track of (and don't get me started on people's arena UIs....... I literally cannot comprehend them).
Well, pvp really needed to be balanced. Rogues and mages have always had waaaay too much CC and utility
I do really miss back when CCs and CDs made a difference, when you actually had to mark for sheep and trap, when things like soulstones and jumper cables had a much bigger impact. And if you didn't properly utilize marking and discuss your pulls, you would get demolished. I found those complexities to be wonderfully fulfilling, but I think it's way to late to go back to something like that.
This is a great take. And applies to other aspects of WoW. Let’s say you like casual games based on fantasy settings. You see WoW on one side and something like Genshin… remember this is a new young player… what looks more appealing? Heck, if you prefer more mature games replace Genshin with Elden Ring. These modern games are sprawling while still letting you be respectable pretty early. WoW is not just a grind, it’s complex above and beyond “enjoyment” for a new player
Lmao i just had been laughing at this comment for 5 minutes now before realising its my own comment 🤣
@asmongold
In Vanilla through LK I was indeed invited and accepted into dungeons and raids with zero experience and poor gear. This was specifically because some raid groups back then did not care about maximizing everything and did not require all raid positions to be filled to complete the raid. Back then unless you were running hardcore difficulties or in some competition it was fine to have some sub-par players in your group provided your core team was solid.
That said I am not debunking as I did witness the "Bank Inspections" (usually in IF? It's been a while) but that was usually a group that did not have a solid foundation and was looking for core team members.
Back then the bigger issue was being denied any gear drops as you were not part of the core team.
I was watching battlefield friends recently, and it never really seems like the people who take the game seriously, actually have any fun at all doing it. Playing at the core level is legit like having a job to me. All the elitism, cliques. That stuff has always existed to. Blizzard has just made alot of stupid decisions over the years. Both in wow and with the operations of blizzard.
People are getting lazy to. I mean, look at the boosts. Pay to instantly not have to play the first half of the game. There were always people to lazy to level. But now it is endorsed by blizzard with a paywall.
@@qunt100 Another is that leveling does not mean anything.
back in classic/vanila you learned how to play your class when you levled.
I remmber when the mastery stat came out in late Wrath I think.
what happen was that I looked at my tallents and a lot was if I had no mastery the tallent would be useless so I did not pick it.
so what happen was that from level 1 to max you used one set of tallents as as soon as you started to get gear whit mastery you switched the tallents spec and how you played your character. becuase now the tallents would work and they was for the most part way powerfull.
then come the gimic thing from each expansion that just made what ever you did before useless.
oh Holy priest you healed in dungeons 1-59 whit Holy light a single target spell.
max level got this expansion gimic never use Holy Light again you use the AEO spell Holy circle then you pop a Protection stone 10-15 feet from the Holy Circle spell.
and thats it. you then cast regenerate on who ever drops bellow 70% HP (if they dont have it).
But no one wants to do anything other than the most tip top tier of anything, lower tier doesn’t matter because the attitude toward new players - the only games I have patience to look up guides for is Minecraft and Warhammer 2 - having played Vanilla and learned alongside experienced raiders, them gladly helping me (but not giving me everything I needed) to get my Dreadsteed is still probably the greatest memory I have - and it’s not able to be done that way anymore. Sadly BC killed my chance to raid beyond the one MC run I did. Karazhan was awesome for me as a result, then the guild crapped out 😂
That's the one thing that was really nice about GW2, you could go straight to PVP without any strings attached and be ready to go. That is why the game has a very lively PVP aspect.
I mean there are a lot less obstacles but to call GW2 sPvP "lively" is delusional. Unless you are talking about WvW in which case yeah its alright.
what a great video and the arena queue perfectly encapsulates the effects of the issue. every time venruki says, “arena” or “solo shuffle” you can replace that with “raid” or “m+” and the point will still apply nine times out of ten. world of warcraft has always had an accessibility issue, and frankly a new game is probably the only way to fix it
Thats because people apply for things they havent qualified for.
"world of warcraft has always had an accessibility issue"
"The largest mmo for nearly 2 decades has always had an accessibility issue"
@@ahall9839 Well, yes, it always had. If you are new player, you have to do all these boring quests to get you max lvl, and then you have to gear up, but not in best gear, firstly you have to get blue-pvp gear, and only then you can start sucking not in bg but in arena. And then you suck for about 30-40 hours against guys who play this game since 2005 (oh damn, they really beat you up).
Well, now you have your purple gear, best you can have, you have learned how to use all of your 20 buttons properly. You have been 100 hours in the game, now it's time to finally play, and then you open the game and realize that the season is end, and in new season your class is suck, so now you have to do all these stuff again. Have fun.
I'm actually a big fan of world of warcraft, i don't play in other mmo or something, but difficulty in starting your game experience makes troubles for all players, new and old.
@@anywaylose3999 "Wow has always been inaccessible. That's why I love it and play it for hundreds of hours even though it's boring. Also, it was a behemoth that defined the MMO genre, and nothing could match its success or even compete. Boy was it inaccessible!"
@@anywaylose3999 I didn't have any problem when I started 15 years ago. and when I got a little older and was able to reach endgame, I had no problem getting gear to do endgame stuff. and when I got into PvP I had no problem getting PvP gear.
There are tiers of endgame and there always has been. Tier one gears you for Tier two and so on. same with PvP. you start in battlegrounds.
And the game clearly outlines all of it out for you. If a new player actually had a problem with any of it, then they've never played an MMORPG before and they clearly don't like the genre, or they only have one lone braincell.
This is the first season ever I've actually bothered to properly gear up for PVP, learn all the gear systems, etc and it's 100% because of solo shuffle. I don't even care that queues are 15-20min. It's a fucking blast. This is the most WoW I've played since probably WoD launch. Gearing was honestly pretty simple. I went from greens to conquest cap over the last 3 weekends playing completely solo dps. The only sad part is the open world feels super dead, not a lot of open world pvp going on.
true they need to place better world pvp rewards and pvp world bosses battles AnD dragonriding bg
There are certain specific areas that get crazy(world quests) but usually its a landslide fight with one faction just over dominating. Not fun
I think alot of the game dying is because there is no real reason to group and meet people until max level and even then it's rare. Join que then once in group it's rush to the end and yell at people who don't know the mechanics. I met most of my wow friends questing in open world trying to beat the hard quests and dying together till we figured it out. I play hardcore now because people are still grouping to do quests but the problem is eventually all your new friends die.
I remember I met most of my wow friends during BC and vanilla by leveling from 12-40 with them. The exploration was exciting and the quests were engaging. But most importantly because we didn't have fast travel we needed to travel together and chatted it up to pass the time. It was a special feeling and I miss it deeply
@@33rdframe Most AAA games aren't design for the player's enjoyment nowadays. They are designed for revenue generation.
MMORPGs are not treadmill progression games. They are social roleplaying games.
The adventure is an excuse and a reason to be there. The game is supposed to trick you into spending time with others.
Oh it's an elite mob quest. Oh it's a dungeon. Oh you guys can work together instead of competing for mob spawns for this quest, and one of you is a crazy tank so you start pulling 10 mobs instead of 2 or 3.
The product of a MMORPG is supposed to be the experience - The experience you had when meeting your wow friends and leveling with them.
It's not supposed to be solo-play dead world MTX shops.
@@tylerbreau4544 very well put
Completely agree with the going back to basics and working up from there.
OSRS did this and it's very successful!!
I have a boomer colleague at work who played back in TBC. She wanted to go back in for Dragonflight. I tried to persuade her out of this, telling how much have changed and the absolute need for addons to play at acceptable level. She ignored my advice and played anyway, but quit as soon she hit Dragon Isles saying it was very overwhelming and she felt like she played a different game, she said "like an ubisoft game", and that leveling sucked cause she "didn't feel like she accomplished anything"
i don't think you know what a boomer is. they're all retired by now.
If she played Shadowlands she would’ve killed herself 😂
someone who was teen/young adult aged during tbc isn't a boomer, you little zoomer.
shes not wrong but you definitely dont need addons just get good
and then your other coworkers stood up and clapped
I think a part of it is the longevity of the game. The chasm between new players, those that play for a few years and veterans is too big to maintain a sense of community and helping people figuring out the game like "this is the game we play, let's lower the bar for blueberries" instead of "adapt or die". Nobody wants to help new players, no new player has the need od making friends that could be more knowledgeable if the systems get less complex. Hard to find a common ground in mmorpg
Well what Ive experienced in wotlk is that alot of people invited me for some quests which just were muuuch easier as a group. But nowadays leveling as a group is slower than solo + everything is focused on the end game sadly. I really enjoy leveling in wotlk but in dragonflight Im just bored.
some of the most fun I had in wow in 14 years of playing it was at the end of BFA. I played a geared guardian druid with all TD corruption gear and would come home from work on sunday nights ( my friday from work ) get trashed and help out lowbies with keys. I loved helping people and having a blast just blowing up low keys pulling half the dungeon but my tolerance for people just derping around trying to make it more difficult than it needs to be was low. I get it that new people exist but when you try and help them out and they spit in your eye for it or dont take advice, that turned me off to helping a lot of people with specs and gear etc.
I loved guid wars until they implemented AI teammates and people quit wanting to party. When they removed the community aspect it was no longer an mmo.
This is why a full reset is needed. They need to literally start the world again after the worldsoul saga. Set everyone down to level 1 and go again.
@@Kampfcookie100 My friend made me to try classic again and man, the nostalgy is huge. Yesterday I was questing in westfall and found an afk lvl 80 paladin so i just started dancing at him for fun. He then started dancing with me and helped me clear up some defias bandits i needed for quest :D This is what wow should be about man ♥
I would imagine if people were serious about becoming a top tiered competitor in any video game, then picking a game and just deciding to "try hard" until you get there is probably not the best idea. Figuring it all out on your own as you said would be a daunting task for anyone especially a new player. I imagine they would be smart about it and join some kind of team that can teach you everything you need to know and get you setup for it, helping you practice and learn until you finally reach that milestone that you want. By comparison athletic sports have teams, they practice together, they get better together, they learn and teach and help each other stay competitive. On the other hand, WoW is so much more than just arena battles, or various pvp game modes. I can't understand why players literally ignore basically the entire game just so they can duel each other. It just seems like a slap in the face to the developers.
There are also instances that some people claim that them being competitive is a their form of relaxation, like the human mind is so fucking weird man and I just dont get it, there are so many things to be done in irl and you want to project those in a video game.
My only conclusion to all of these is that it all boils down to pride and ego, nothing else
@@primecoconut4204 What's the difference between video games and literally any other hobby? There are competitive aspects and people in every hobby. Video games just happens to be soccer 2.0 because of its accessibility. What's the difference from the local guy who takes weekend park basketball super seriously versus someone on a video game?
basketball guy is probably fit, healthy and finds irl friends :D we players spend countless hours looking at pixels that dont matter.Its definetly true that real life hobbies have more benefits@@ShaggyRogers1
@@primecoconut4204 then your conclusion is just wrong haha why are people weird that enjoy being competitive in games.
So many things to be done in irl, yet you chilling in a youtube comment section, talking down on other peoples lifestyles. take a loot at yourself
Yea, any serious players will look up guides on rotation and gearing to learn how to min/max and optimize their class performance. I honestly think the amount of abilities is fine.... it might seem like alot at first, but you learn it over time. A casual player can just button mash their core abilities with 5-10 spells at most and stilll do decent dps..... but for those who want to be more serious and learn their rotation, it can be rewarding to optimize their rotation with all the abiliites and cds. Also, instead of PVE if u PVP then you will end up using alot of extra utility stuff that will come in handy to counter classes that u might not use in PVE. I hate when blizz tries to prune abiliites because they take away alot of the cool unique class defining spells and utility like the Grounding totem example for shaman.
That was my problem when i played wotlk classic as an entirely new player. I didnt know what are addons and even the essential addons. My dungeons felt so terrible without any indicators from the vanilla display of the bosses and such. Ff14 did it much better and that I didnt even need to read guides and the game had indicators where i didnt need addons. The problem with this game is that the help doesnt even come from the devs, it comes way too much from players.
Bruh u dont need a single addon for wotlk classic
@@xLamont_ you skip pretty much all the lore that isn't the current expansion, maybe you see a little of the previous expansion, but not enough to actually understand the big picture
@@janundsoo for what? Questing? Yes you don't need addons for questing. Everything else? You need a whole bunch of addons.
@@johnwalker3602 no ? Wotlk raids etc are super easy to understand. I play it and do all the raids without a single addon
@@xLamont_you can't play the game in the right order to understand the lore behind it. If you knew how to do it u would spoil yourself and you had no reason to replay it in game.
Reminds me of FFXI. Everyone wants new players, but no one wants to waste their own time bringing up new players and there’s no path for them to catch up on their own.
Born to early to experiance full dive VR and born to late to relate to the warcraft no-lifers... what a dreadful existence we lead...
And also, 44% of American men are have thoughts about self deletion.
True. 2001 birth year here. I still remember the times before smart phones and social media but I was too young back in the day to experience the gaming culture. I envy the people that had this fantastic days back in WoW Classic. A MMO is meant to be a social experience.
I was born at the right time but missed out on the WOW craze due to living in the middle of nowhere with dial up internet. 😂 I remember the only source of gaming news I had was my mom taking me to Barnes & noble and I would hurry and thumb through every gaming magazine because no way I could spend ten bucks to actually buy it. That is how I discovered the next great game oblivion coming out… Good times 😅
As someone whos never played it and has heavily debated getting into it. Its the time commitment, learning curve, and constant cost. It's 200 cad a year just to play, thats insane.
I played the game since Burning Crusade, maxed my first Character in Wotlk, got PvP gear every season by having fun in Bgs and arenas, was raiding since Ulduar and got ahead of the curve everytime since WoD and even had time for twinks.
With shadowlands it went downhill for me. I logged in most of the time, ran around for a few minutes and then logged off, because I was so overwhelmed by the game and I didn't know what to do. (Still got ahead of the curve in Castle Nathria) "Shadowlands just wasn't my expansion" I thought and was ready to go really hard in dragonflight. Same thing. Overwhelmed by everything. The talent trees, the new profession system and countless other systems. I felt I had to study first in order to play a "game". I rather played Classic or any other game, where I can turn the game on and the brain off.
Now this comes from a player that played this game for 15 years. Imagine having new players enter this mess. Forget about it.
I agree about the buttons. My peak enjoyment was wrath arcane mage with 5 buttons, blood dk in mists and WOD, and demon hunter in legion. All of these I rolled with with 10 ish buttons, including CDs.
Back in the early to mid 2000s I played Guild Wars. The pvp in that game was amazing. You could choose to make a pvp only character or take your pve character into pvp. The pvp only characters had max armor and weapons and you could customize them with runes, etc to your playstyle at anytime.
This.
Wow Gladiators pvp should have the same system.
Have experience earned be transferred to main and allow over chars to be used on in pvp to allow for custom end game pvp builds.
Would allow for new players to immediately play pvp, bolstering numbers while allowing vets to benefit from higher population and builds differing from the pre mades.
This is exactly why I love playing specs like beastmaster or evoker, not too complicated, tons of movement so mechanics are a breeze, can actually enjoy the raids/m+
Not only is it convoluted, you have to pay monthly to grind gear that allows you to grind better gear.
i mean, its an mmo
As opposed to all the other MMO's? If you don't like gear progression in an MMO then I don't even know what to tell you. It's like you and others on here haven't even played the game in years or something. This is how WoW has literally always been, and most MMO's are too.
@gorilla30100 I don't like that you have to pay for the game, then sub. Plenty of mmo's have sub base for specific perks. Why do I have to continue to pay for content I already paid for. Lock lfg and other features behind the pay wall. Let me play the content I already paid for.
At the very least make better content that has more permanency and less continual grind. Vanilla WoW at least felt worth a subscription. Imo
@@lostsoul029 vanilla has the same continual grind than retail, its just that m+ didnt exist back then
@martinalegre5524 it was not like it is now. Way less gear permanency now. Some gear from vanilla/bc I didn't have reason to change until close to the end of Wrath.
If you spend months+ grinding "end game" gear it shouldn't be almost immediately useless in the next expansion. It feels way more like a waste of effort. Beat the end game content and don't care about grinding the full set unless you want the transmog.
Just keep increasing numbers insanely on gear until they need to do a stats squish again.
IMO, rotations felt best in Wrath-MoP. CDs actually lined up and the whole thing felt like there was effort put in it to give the sense of FLOW. There were not 10 million modifiers. Your base spells felt good to use and actually did damage. Using your CDs was a noticeable boost in damage, but without 10 million modifiers the stars can't align to blow someone up based not on skill but RNG. There was a large difference in performance between skilled and bad players as well as a result. Today's rotations feel cobbled together with things that don't fit, CDs don't matchup, etc. I just can't force myself to play retail because of this.
As for PvP, if Blizzard puts no effort into WoW PvP then why should players care? For 19 years so few actual mechanical changes made specifically for PvP like change durations of CC against players, combine a few DR categories, and added effects like dampening to try to fix the issue of healer mana needs being different in PvE vs. PvP. Compare the development time put in PvE vs. PvP. In 19 years they've never thought to give one of the three roles in the game a purpose in PvP. You can't tell me in 19 fucking years no one has gone, "hey, should we maybe try to make it so one of the three roles actually works in PvP?" I mean Jesus Christ Warhammer basically solved the problem for you which came out the same year Burning Crusades did, and SWtOR fixed the issue of CC (in theory) with the idea of a single bar below the health bars where there are no DR categories to worry about.
You are Blizzard... you do best taking existing ideas and polishing the fuck out of them. You could have stolen these two ideas and even combined them, with the tank specs doing less damage but in exchange be the ones with more potent CC and resistance to CC. You have had 19 years to innovate and have done NOTHING!
I think part of the complexity issue is having so many skills accessible at the same time. Having a lot of options is good for diversity, but only if you have to make hard choices about what you are going to use. Take GW1 for example. Tons of skills, but you gotta pick 8.
I think the worse part of wow is if you want yo max out in the game, the game has to be your only game. You do not have time for other games. When I first started playing wow I didnt get to experience any of the ps3/360 era of gaming until at the end of the life cycle of those systems.
Did you try DF at all? I can log on literally once or twice a week and do my keys or something and you don't have to do anything else. This isn't true for the game at the moment.
Jeez I’m just now realizing this is happening to me, I’ve got my own game console that I used to play every day, So many games that I had kept up with, And then when I turned 15 earlier this year I started playing WoW, Ever since then WoW has been the only game I’ve been playing. Barely even touched my other games or any of the updates coming out for them
Mmos do this. Missed ps2 and ps3 Era playing CoH, WoW, SWotoR, ESO, warhammer ect. The world's andnsense of accomplishment couldn't be matched in single player games. The next phase is mobile gaming and those systems are now tearing through AAA gaming, simply designed to waste your fucking time and spend money in a cash shop to stop the pain.
The first time I tried raiding I sat around at nax for like 45 minutes. Then got my gear inspected and asked if I had done nax before. Got kicked for not having any raiding experience and never bothered again.
they should make a system to invite non achiever, to get a better loot or something.
this issue is killing me too in classic
They should emulate FFXIV party finder, you don't apply to groups, you just join them. This way people have a chance of proving their worth before they get judged. You can also form private parties with passwords if you want to filter people.
Do you sometimes get below average performers? Yes, is it overall a better system? Yes. People do clear in PF, and there are parties for duty complete (must've completed it before), duty completion (aiming to clear) and practice (wipefests).
Guild Wars 1 had PVP where you could get in almost as easy as counter strike. They did it that you could create a PVP character, which had acces to max gear, so you had a level plain field.
GW2 has that too.
yes but Gw1 PVP was superior to any even modern MMO. But it had an insane elitist pvp community ;)
You only had 8 abilities during gameplay, but it had a ton of depth choosing which 8 abilities you use from a pretty long list.
GW1 was great indeed
GW1 had the best pvp of any game I have ever played. Shit is goated. And then they ruined it with GW2.
One of the reasons why I am excited about the AI dungeons. I can do it whenever I want, at the pace I want and no worries about how I perform. If I want to try tanking, no worries. No complaining about the pace, the route and such. I hope they will include M0 dungeons just to help people learn the mechanics for doing m+.
I remember joining a GW2 guild a couple years back and I was told to watch a 49 minute video on how to do the raid step-by-step.
While I'm completely willing to understand that some guilds/groups are in the business of running this shit as fast as possible, I was COMPLETELY NEW to raids. If you are going to accept new players or players new to raids, you're probably insane to think that sending them a lengthy walkthrough is going to make them what to play.
I don't think WoW or in my case GW2 is difficult at all, it's just that people are impatient.
The old days of wiping 5 times to the boss to learn its tricks is over (unless you're playing right as a raid launches)
Now it's "oh you can't keep up? we don't need you"
Wanted to get into WoW before eventually picking a different mmo during the pandemic. It was super hard to wrap my head around all the systems I'd have to interact with to do anything. Let alone all the addons I would be required to get.
You missed out on classic
@@theMJLlol no he didn’t. I’ve played since classic and I couldn’t even get back into it. Felt like a waste of time.
rule number 1. dont assume you NEED addons. only get them when you feel you want them. i tell newbies everyday ingame as im part of the ingame mentor program to let the desire come organic not forced. those feeling forced 9/10 leave game. those that grow into dont.
@@fabreasy304yeah me too, classic felt like a massive waste of time. Unless you REALLY loved Vanilla. Many people did not.
Bro, I have a PHD and was a glad in WoTLK and Cata. I tried coming back in BfA and Shadowlands. It felt like every 2 seconds I was discovering a new convoluted power system. There was so much to farm to be top tier. So many new systems to learn and sink time into. Addons and rotations are out of hand. You damn near need an addon to manage your addons. Even as someone who knew the game at a high level and can learn shit pretty quickly, I hated it.
Wow became job # 2, lol
New(ish) player. Hooked on Classic. Leveled Alliance and then Horde toons through Classic, TBC, and Wrath. Organized a raid team. Ulduar geared. I took a few months break from Wrath to play Classic and Hardcore. Came back to Wrath and found that I can't even walk into the latest campaign dungeon because my gear score is too low. I don't know that it's the game as much as the players who are unforgiving.
i am a r1 mage and recently i made a char on warmane.
it took me half a day to get everthinf set up. i am running around 20 addons and have 20 macros.
on top of that i needed to get BiS geared using my creditcard. after all the trouble i had to find a teammate too which is another pain.
so yeah who in their right mind would do that
edit: and i know what i am doing, imagine starting and clicking your buttons while idiots like me exist running a techno clownfiesta for playing
I mean... give classes back their uniquness - mages can do portals, conjure food etc. - but when it comes to fights give every class 10 spells tops - including CDs. That way you can think of interesting fun stuff to give classes that does not come into play during fights and you can make fights simpler - and then if you wanna keep the difficulty, just keep the boss difficulty, its hard enough these days just running around mythic let alone pushing 30 plus keybinds
Love or hate the game, that's the core of why I love OSRS. The simplicity is nice. I only played a little WoW a few years ago, but I really loved the feel of my class being unique and tailored to me. There's a happy middle ground there that sounds super fun!
😊😊😊
i would honestly argue you can make the bosses more complex if your rotation isnt as much
Looks like you want to play diablo.
i remember when weapons weren't so much statsticks
started playing wow for the first time with one of my friends during the pandemic. I mainly played osrs as my mmorpg, and I have played thousands of other games. I understood the basics about the game but had no idea about the many many specifics the game has. Pretty much stopped playing after the pandemic because i wasnt really sure what do besides dungeons and occasional pvp (but pvp annoyed me because I would just get stun locked)
I got into ESO because of it and I loved it every since :DD
The problem is with people having a standard for having a “rotation” rather than just doing damage. I don’t want my class to have an expectation of a rotation I wanna play my class how I want.
When I played the game as a kid (vanilla/BC/Wrath) the most third-party influence I had in my game was Atlasloot and googling Thottbot quest guides for particularly dodgy quests. Didn't even have DPS meters on my client until Wrath where it seemed to be more important, or maybe I was just getting more into raiding than before. Anyway, I think there has been a crazy leap since ~WoD or Legion where the addons are practically playing the game themselves. It's insane. Not even the raid addons - I think the PVP addons are even more egregious. I would rather they outlawed all addons. Simplify the game if need be..
For PvP, do what they do in GW2 and let you Max-level PvP from like level 6. You choose all your talents, maybe there are presets, but you scale up and hop right in.
Ever since I started in Wrath I wished there was something that equated everyone's ilvl in BGs. I always wished the participation in PvP content was facilitated
The problem with that is they are horrible at scaling. You tried running a dungeon as a 50-60? Watch the lvl 12 mage 1 shot everything while you do almost nothing
@@sagemonkey7yes,and as u progress, you get weaker. Same shit in d4 from what ive heard. Blizz is something
As a new player that started few weeks ago i feel this so much, enjoyed the story yes but when i tried to do heroic raids after i did them all on normal it was a such a jump in difficulty for me the game doesnt explain how to gear where to gear and enchantments and stuff like that at some point you feel like you dont progress :/
as someone who quit wow at the beginning of dragonflight for a new player clearing all raids (no clue how many they released at this point for df) on normal you are already on a good way if you want to keep playing. There are people who play for years and dont go beyond lfr
imo - researching the complex intricacies and finally mastering them is extremely satisfying. Where and What is the Best Gear? How do I play the best? What are the pros doing? etc.
Here’s the thing, the game is about community. Find one that fits you best, search around in the guild finder. Don’t feel obligated to stay if they don’t fit your preferences, and ask questions.
@@fortuitous1983 this! Community- and Blizzard has done about all it can to ruin that. Which is why I play on private servers 99% of the time, even though I also pay for a subscription and have purchased every expansion since wotlk.
Fornite brain
One of my favorite memories in WoW was rolling a Holy Priest in late WotLK having never healed before and doing Koralon the Flamewatcher in crafted blues and vendor epics. The fight is mechanically simple alternating between heavy raid damage and heavy tank damage. You don't have to move iirc. But even as technically undergeared as I was I was still top healing, least overhealing, no deaths, and I went OOM the moment the boss died. I've never felt as perfectly tuned for a fight as that one moment and I didn't need the wild mechanics and rotations the modern game has to feel satisfied.
Making the game superfluously more complicated just raises the barrier to entry and creates more opportunity for failure. Given that all the endgame content is group content, if every other player is a potential point of failure, and WoW is designed with increased opportunities for failure, then you're just wasting so many people's time with needless wipes on raids and dungeons, and inting in PvP.
Healing in Wrath is still my favorite experience I ever had in WoW.
I played resto Druid after having tanked in bear form all through BC, and I had finally found my calling.
I had a rotation where I could even keep up with both tanks during Patchwerk in Naxx, and after raiding I felt exhilarated.
Then Cataclysm came out and they absolutely destroyed resto Druids by gutting their HoT spells, and making a cast spell the primary, so after four years of regular play I hung it up. I felt exhausted after every raid, and with the new “triage” style of healing they implemented people constantly died to flames and green stuff, and the healer of course gets all the blame because they don’t know where to stand.
I tried playing classic but the community isn’t fun now. I had so many online friends back in the day, but this new generation hates socializing, then wonders why they have no friends.
all my friends started playing classic, one started then 2, then 3 and now they have 5 people getting on daily, it's so wholesome and I think I might start playing too
you should
Classic era is the way.
@@networknomad5600did he specify?
@@kiirbstomp they are playing wrath of the lich king classic I believe, no clue the differences though (other than content)
do it
the next expansion should have a massive event pre expansion "the time reversal" and all addons are destroyed, core rotation massively reduced. Then the next big release is wow 2 to support a more streamlined game with a instant access PVP mode that is separate from the core game, and links to your MC for achievements etc.
I like how in classic wow have so much buttons but they are so versatile you end up using 1-3 at a time, but thoughout the game you're using pretty much all of them, you have options for ever aspect of your gameplay and not just 20 buttons to do damage. its insane.
retail has that too
Retail has gotten the old ones and more actually lol
Both of you missed the entire point OP was making
2 mugs completely failed to comprehend OP’s point 😂😂😂
Yeah classes are kinda pointless when everyone can do everything. The classes lost their identity.
That arcane mage part blew my mind, like I remember when arcane mages were a meme for being a braindead 3-button rotation, like they were almost too boring to even play so you would just go fire if you wanted to raid
I've tried multiple times to get back into the game (left after WotLK). What deters me is two things:
- All the addons you NEED to install and set up and tweak, different addons for different classes etc... Just a pain you need to do before even starting playing the game.
- Second, I just want to get to the end-game and start raiding, but the road there is soooo long. I don't give a fuck about questing and leveling or the story. And the world is so big that the people on the server are spread so thin across the world that you don't often see many people (when leveling up), making the world feel dead. And there's so much to do, back and forth, you see people running from quest to quest like a zombie or an ant, not socializing. All this makes leveling up unbearable and not fun for me.
I dislike how if you stop playing for a bit, it's nearly impossible to find groups for raids and pvp because you're way undergeared for that season. I know the gear has always been a big issue in the game, because some classes feel they scale way better with the gear, but if you don't have the gear, you aren't getting into a group. The other issue is that people are impatient with things, and if you make a mistake because you're having an off day or something, they berate you with message and such telling you to kill yourself or to go die or just wish ill on you and your family. Who wants to deal with that? Most people play games to destress and have fun, not to get more stressed out and be told to go die or something. The community has gotten to the point of borderline MOBA toxicity, and it's sad to see.
The game stopepd being fun in Wotlk when people just started to respond with "Gearscore?" That was all it was.
Before that I felt you could charm your way in
@@alltidtratt3564 gearscore and the IO. Rating or whatever it's called. I can understand having a certain vers rating for pvp, but even so I wish they'd find a different way for pvp damage reduction and what not so that part of the game is more skill based versus gear based.
If you don't play for a week you're definitely behind of the curve, and the great vault is a huge offender. Before the borrowed power and the vault, the only thing you missed if you didn't play for a couple weeks was (maybe, depending on luck) gear from raids. Now, you're missing 2 high ilvl items with no chance of recovery on top of that, and this creeps more and more the more resets you miss.
I always advocate for the vault being removed completely.
@@Rhob81it's very true. The vault is not needed at all. Last time I played, I didn't play since last season, and was a bit under the gear curve for a battleground and died to a backpeddling hunter. That was unacceptable. Dying to a rapid fire ticking 35-45Ks. That was when I ended my subscription to the game lol.
@@alltidtratt3564 also the problem not in Gearscore only but the gear started to be too universal, its always stamina and main stat, we need to come back to Vanilla ideas where every item was unique and interesting
They'd have to do what Guild Wars 2 does where PvP and PvE are separate. You can make a level 1 and zone into the PvP zone and you'll instantly be max level with all your skills and talents unlocked as long as you're there. Also instead of having to worry about gear they put all the stats on a swappable amulet
Guild wars 2 sucks.
That doesn't mean there isn't elements of it that can be taken and used to make a different game better. If wow had a "pvp lobby" where you could start playing arena right out the gate with a new character I don't see why that wouldn't be an improvement.
@@bobbyvandyke143 Gold star for being a toddler great work!
@@bobbyvandyke143 Blizzard Simp 😂
@@bobbyvandyke143Damn it Bobby.
One thing that really frustrated me coming back to play wrath classic, was being gate kept by two phrases, "Whats your gear score?" And "do you have such and such addon?" i shouldn't need 10 addons just to play a game. And my gearscore shouldn't matter on introductory raids/heroic dungeons!
One nice thing with FF14s's PvP is that it's totally separate from PvE, everyone's at the same level based on the job they're playing and it's very simple to learn, especially with the somewhat recent changes. Complexity comes down to player decisions and utilizing your job tools and universal options. Plus the PvP jobs are built entirely on their own from PvE and while they tend to have much of the same ideas once you unlock a job you're set to use it. You can even level the job just from PvP, the PvP queue gives a good chunk of exp. It's not perfect but it's a lot easier than how WoW has it.
u can lv in pvp as well in wow
@@TatsuyaWow True, they added that in Wrath iirc, it's largely the simplicity, ease to get in at earlier levels, separation of PvP from PvE and that the roulette bonus is massive that I like a lot. It's about a level a day just from the 15 minute frontline. Plus every job in the game can be on your one character so you can freely try any of them in PvP.
Expect for a new player FF14 pvp is pretty much just as confusing to new player as wow pvp is. Theres so much stuff going and you most of time you dont even know why you died.
@@Vilhomatto You got a few universals and 5 or so job buttons, the game modes are fairly straight forward and accessible. 99% of the time if you died it's because you were surrounded by enemies, don't get caught out. Sure it would be better to add more tutorial for it but there's very little learning curve compared to
1. Hit max level on your character if you want to do competitive PvP at all
2. Learn what spec is used for pvp
3. Learn what gear and consumabes are used for pvp then obtain them
4. Learn other classes varied and vast tool kits that they can use against you.
5. Wait in que for 30 minutes for a game
Compared to simply obtaining the job you want to play (which you can have all on the same character), learning your 5 buttons and then picking up things like "this job has a stun, this one has a very telegraphed and dangerous aoe, you need to move as a group, stun and kill healers." 72 man que times for frontline are very rarely more than 3-5 minutes on any given afternoon for a reason.
@@noyou6216Might be easier but it sure as fuck ain't better.
FF14's pvp has NEVER even once been regarded as better than WoW's, nor it will ever be.
The problem is that the casual has become the norm, so doing chores in a video game is frowned upon; people just want everything handed to them, and yet also cry about how different and soulless the game feels... like, pick a side.
If you want easy you're not gonna be fulfilled.
Gearing in WoW can be brutal, but it's a part of the process and much doable if you do it early.
I’ve tried getting into WoW a few times since 6months before shadowlands. I remembered always hearing about it as a kid, but never playing cause I couldn’t afford a PC. I finally could, but Jesus fuck I need an encyclopedia to know how to take a shit it feels like.
I've been playing wow for around 6-7 years and my Fiancé wanted to play it with me. ITS SO HARD for her to understand what CC's, Prots or q's or what her own abilities do. Quite literally hand held her through the game and she was still overwhelmed by it all. :(
I feel like that's probably true for almost any 20yr MMORPG that has changed so much over the years though. Of course you are going to be diving in to the deep end, it's 20yrs deep.
@@eagle25311sounds like you were designed to be a basement dweller lol
@@silentguilt exactly
@@silentguilt that doesn’t mean it has to be incomprehensible. It should be the opposite almost.
I remember in wrath as a fury warrior having an addon for slam procs, other than that it was a two button spam rotation, unless there were more that two targets, then you would keep sweeping strikes on cd. Mash two abilities, wait for slam procs and I would top dps meters.
A problem I find with WoW -- playing FF14 which also, if not more so, has complex rotations -- is the speed the game expects. I play a Black Mage in FF14 a few bit of the time, considered one of the hardest jobs, yet I find it relaxing cause each spell press offers me time to reflect on what comes next and prepare for it.
In WoW I play an Arcane Mage, which again, similar to BLM, considered one of the hardest specs to play. I enjoy my magey wizards, that's all! What I've noticed is that with the difference in GCD, playing a spell caster that stands still in WoW is a nightmare. The expectation you have to get all your casts off at such high speed ends up ridiculous, while I'm 2 spells ahead in mind as BLM and can keep track on the boss too, with Arcane I often fall behind when Timewarp is up, nevermind able to react to the boss.
It's a clusterfuck most of the time, I enjoy the spec but hoooly do I not want to imagine trying to actually play it 100% optimally in something like high end m+ or worse, mythic raiding, whereas I can enjoy BLM in savage and extremes. It just doesn't feel like a spellcaster to me, none of the specs do as opposed to older content, and it's funny how I feel way more mobile on my BLM with so many instant casts and so on while even with faster casting speed and arcane barrage free movement I feel grounded.
Perhaps cause FF14's combat works in such a way you can easily maximize it, but WoW's fights are such messes most of the time and abilities come flying so often and constantly that those mobility options get depleted quickly. I feel it's an issue WoW has escalated its fast paced combat over the decades, to the point it needs to either prune a ton of buttons from specs at this point for better tight knit rotations or change back to how vanilla felt, without stuff like haste and where each ability press had weight behind it, how FF14 does it.
Another few things is that FFXIV's team prioritizes new players, they cut quests in ARR, added flying in ARR zones, allowed a player to enter dungeons with NPCs (i.e. single-player), have a system in which veteran players are doing old content in the form of roulette, make the jobs easy to learn (though they gutted the difficulty a the end game), and the biggest thing gives a lot of option such that you do NOT need mods or add-ons.
I almost went insane when I heard that Black Mage is one of the hardest jobs.
I played a Fire Mage for 15 years and Black Mage seemed so extremely easy and slow in comparison.
WoW really makes you count fractions of a second, and if you don't you're last on the Details meter.
@@coolyeh1017 Actually they don't allow you to use mods or add-ons that encourage you to berate other players in game. You can get softbanned for telling a player that their damage or healing is too low, or removing them from group and stating not doing enough healing/dmg etc. FF thinks those things are toxic and lead to bad experiences. Blizz don't care about bruh toxic ecology in wow.
I always wanted to play a caster for range but I’ve been a melee dps at heart when I played WoW from vanilla to Warlords. I Couldnt imagine having to stand still constantly when every raid boss requires everyone to move all the time.
I have wanted to get into FF14 it’s raid bosses seem fun. That’s what I miss most about WoW was the raiding content, that’s what kept me interested for a decade
One thing I miss everytime I play WoW is slide casting from FF14.
I think a lot of problems, well most at least, could be solved if WoW just did the GW2 route. You can buy GW2, log in make your character and immediately do their PVP. Go to the mists and PVP all day, earn rewards etc. Sure you'll miss most of the content but you have the choice to PVE or PVP and the best part, in the mists the gear doesn't matter from PVE, everyone is on an even playing field iirc. It was some of the best pvp experience I had. GW2 vets can probably elaborate more on the state of PVP NOW, but, GW2's system could be a step in the easier direction.
I really loved how Guild Wars did the spells with buttons. you had a like a lot of spells. but you could only bring 8 in your spell bar. that spell bar was the space you could fill up. you had to make choices of what to pick was truely amazing! everybody had a uniek class because of it! there where some obvious ones that where really good. but most of the time every player played so differently
Ahh, GW1, the classic. Gotta admit I spent a lot of timing theorycrafting and playing around with builds and such. Getting a new skill was legit exciting.
Guild Wars the GOAT.
I had a W/Rt that literally could not die. Rest well, Sir Artinox 🥲
That's exactly why I disagree when people say "classes should only have X amount of buttons of this kind, Y amount of buttons of that kind, etc". I like having tons of options, so I can choose which suit me the best, rather than the class being streamlined to choose for me which buttons I'll use and everything else being discarded. Though I'm also glad it's not like Guild Wars, but that I can choose to use more than 8 buttons if I want (but I suppose a good compromise would be that for solo content you can use everything, while for grouping and PvP you have a slot limit, as grouping/PvP are indeed problems, way too complicated for a new player).
Ya, I was rank 10 gladiator
I haven't really played in years, only dipping into SoD for 2 weeks before burning out again.
That said I still care about this gane and wish I could enjoy it like I did 10 or 15 years ago.
As a general template, I think no rotation should involve more than 3-6 abilities, plus 1-2 situationals like interrupts or CC and maybe 1 movement.
The fewer abilities a rotation uses the faster OR more complex it can be with procs and whatnot. There can still be outlier specs that spike in complexity. This would fit thenatically with Arcane Mages to play off the "magic as science" fantasy.
I really enjoyed the speed demon Enh shaman who had an extremely simple rotation but stupidly fast GCDs.
Also enjoyed Wrath shadow priest, managing 3 dots while mind flaying and using MB on cooldown.
Even with simple stuff like this there was room for optimization like deciding whether to cut off the last mind flay tick to cast mind blast when available or refresh a dot.
Now I take a look at rotations and just want to go play something else.
I've played WoW on and off since the game came out. Mostly with irl friends. And each time I return, I get more and more of the 'new player experience'. Sometimes that's a good thing. Like getting to explore all those new area's, quests, dungeons and so on. But then you also get new mechanics and gimmicks that don't actually make the game more fun or flexible, but just more tedious or convoluted. And it only gets worse the close you approach endgame content. If it's like that for a returnee, I can't even imagine the frustration a new player must feel :/
ay same for me there
It’s weird as I started off in wow around mist of panderia on my mom’s account and never really took the game seriously. I recently got my own computer and started to take wow seriously about 3-6 months ago and seeing how raids and dungeons function made me realize that there is a lot more to keep track of. A month ago all I knew was I am a DPS and to just make sure I keep my buffs timed to combo bursts of dmg as a frost DK. I have looked up guides on how the class works and the rotation (which thankfully is ez to remember) now i am looking for the feedback of my own performance to see if I am even timing everything right. There’s no default dps chart or disruption/interrupt count, just seems like you need to know either a command or have an add-on. As a “new” player I think 10-15 buttons is very reasonable especially if most of them are buff rotations and better feedback on my own performance would allow me to adapt faster in figuring out what gear I should be using or if my rotations have any effect on the battle. In raids your competing with 17 other dps for dmg so when you see the HP start melting it’s hard to tell rather if it’s you doing it or if it’s any of the other dps. My current spot with the game is that I’m stuck in progression. I can’t find a group to run normal or heroic raids with and I get declined from any mythic dungeons despite having 3 mythic+ dungeons already on my record wearing less powerful gear.
Idk how popular Classic is now but that feels so much more new player friendly. It's kinda funny because a few years ago retail was always called the casual one by older players but compare Classic to Dragonflight and it's crazy how complicated DF is.
A good example was Enhancement back in like Cata/MoP era. Stormstrike (melee autos and storm strike itself could procs free strikes on occasion and gives extra maelstrom), flame shock, lava lash spreads fire shock, bolt at 5 stacks of maelstrom.
AoE was Crash Lightning (a cleave version of Stormstrike) a fire nova button (makes your fire shocks do aoe damage), and you'd chain lightning instead of bolt. That was it. Simple but fun.
CDs were wolves and bloodlust (maybe a racial if you were a troll or orc for example, but that gets macrod into your wolves for ease of use. Anything else was a passive or one time use for a long lasting effect (shields, weapon imbudes) and you can drop all your totems with one button.
6 skills that each serve unique and impactful purpose will always be more fun for me than 20+ skills where about 15 of them do roughly the same thing.
Also, doesn't every class have the same 15+ abilities but they are just reflavored now?
It's worse, abilities are intertwined and are prerequisites for each other, spell 1 is a generator for spell 2, but spell 3 has a talent that if you use it before spell 2, spell 2 deals 20% more dmg.
It's jsut confusion shitshow unnecessary clutter, cata had the best balance of complexity and pattern spamming classes. Mop and legion follow up on those really well, and make the game alot better through complexity in the right manner, but they also make the game increadibly complex for anybody who hasnt played an mmo.
You also need to work full time for 2-3 years to memorize all the abilities and how they are used.
Per character.
Unpopular maybe but when Venruki is explaining everything you need to do to start playing WoW, i actually really wish i could relive that
This feeling of unknown and progression, the mistakes, the discovery, the innocence, the feeling you get when you start entering in the big game
Nowadays, i know everything i have to do and it demoralizes me to start an alt despite wanting to play them but at max level so i keep playing a single character and i get borred and just hope with get CE as soon as possible so i don't have to do a M+ key per week
I often actually really likes the early weeks/the first half of the raid. I push a lot of keys in the first 2 weeks of this patch (was top 100 rio) and we got curve + 4 first bosses and it was very cool
But the moment i was full gear, the dungeons level were getting annoying and we got to post nerfed Zskarn, my enjoyement of the game really went down. Im glad Neltharion is an enjoyable fight
Well during Legion you had PvP Template where having the biggest Ilvl only got you some small boost to your stats and everyone and their mother cried about losing gear prog or being able to customize their stats where they can stack more crit,masery or haste etc.
So id say the community arent on singular note on how to deal with this.
Atleast gearing for PvP now isnt so hard but the game just doesnt feel that fun tbh.
Yeah, things were fun when it wasn't usual and also expected that everyone just looks up everything and follows the meta.
Not sure, though, how to get back to that situation.
This was fun to watch. Something that I wanted to comment on is that, while also dislike Jump King and Only Up, I don't agree with them being used as examples of backwards progression. For me they're more of a "rogue-like platformer". I think a lot of people would argue that Rogue-like games are the standard of "backwards progression". But what I consider progression in a game like that is: improved muscle memory, understanding of techniques, and emergent game mechanics. I don't consider climbing to the top of the junk heap to be progression. I consider it to be a goal. Does that make sense or am I alone in this way of thinking? For me this is different than a puzzle game or RPG game. In a puzzle game, if I reach a fail state in puzzle 12 and am then asked to resolve puzzles 1 through 11, that is backwards progression to me, a punishment. If I am playing an RPG and reach the end of a dungeon but die, redoing the dungeon doesn't feel like backwards progression to me. Were I to lose everything I earned in the dungeon up until that point--including rare, low droprate items, I would consider that backwards progression (btw most standalone Final Fantasy games growing up were this way but they were typically easy enough). WoW is not an RPG, it's an MMO. Team play and designed-for-groups content is explicit. But, while not immediately obvious, as Asmon says towards the end here, it does punish you for reaching a fail state in a raid. You lose both time invested and rare materials. Time invested in running to and from locations and regrouping--while often not needing to reclear trash you must retread ground. And secondly, the materials invested in buffing. I will never forget how tanks in classic to cata have to pay more for wipes than other classes. Not to mention losing world buffs early, or the time it takes to reform a group when someone drops out. And for me that's the most egregious of them. Regardless if I'm solo or with a friend, being asked to spend time doing essentially nothing (running over 5-10 minutes from our respawn point back to the action), that's a pain in the ass. But it's so much worse for content that requires group co-operation.
In a perfect world, the devs intentions by having people lose world buffs and expensive buffs, and needing to run back to fights, etc, was both for immersion, and limitation. In games whose existence, fun, and systems don't work right without an active community, often-times limits are put in place to allow the community to remain active for longer by preventing small but dedicated groups from "beating the game too quickly". I personally can't stand when power levels are locked behind this time-gating mechanic. Cosmetics and for-fun loyalty rewards? Have at it. In WoW not only is all of this other stuff we've talked about apparent, we ALSO have time-gating mechanics and limiters on raids. Beat a boss? You're locked to this instance. If a group who hasn't beaten this boss wants to do it, it's gg for you. Because lord knows we can't have you getting all the good gear right away. But....at a certain point good gear was needed to CLEAR the raid. So what IS the status symbol? The rare gear? The mount? Being able to fight the last boss of a raid? In my humble opinion, being able to SEE and INTERACT with raid content, should NOT be limited for the sake of PROGRESSION. The rare 1% drop chance can happen only once per day, right? That's not difficult to implement. Retail wow has group loot fr cryin' out loud. I think I whole-heartedly agree with Asmongold here. If your game only caters to people who can play it FOR A LIVING, you can milk money from that feedback loop, but you will bleed players. Take Rust, how do they get around it? If Rust was only Vanilla, I think it would die lol, quite frankly. But thankfully you can make your own servers. Lots of people play on servers with double gathering and resource rates so they can experience the game as a 10 man group, in a 2 or 3 man group. They can lessen the impact of loss. That's not the best comparison, but Rust is about 10 years old and still going strong on Steam--not to mention it appeals to people who like the thrill of total loss. And though Rust isn't the BEST comparison (because any solutions offered by this comparison might not apply to WoW), it's definitely worth comparing. Games like Rust are like hybrids of a rogue-like with an MMO and Battle Royale.
Warframe was my first MMO. It's very RNG heavy and grind heavy, and for a long time infamously not friendly to beginners or players who aren't hooked. And it's very funny to me that the MMO I knew as the king of MMOs growing up, WoW, is behind them in this regard. Now should that be obvious? That a later version of a thing in a genre would be better? Maybe. But they started with much less.
18 year player and still at it. This past expansion, I've introduced my children to WoW. I can honestly say there is a huge skill cap and comprehensive layout that you must attain in order to truly explore and experience the game. Sad to say, I do not believe that with Gen Alpha coming up WoW will survive if they do not evolve. I strong think the should consider a new game engine to start their fountain for future generations.
True. I literally remember being like 8-9 years old learning the game from my uncle and healing in dugns and having so much fun bc it was easy to get into I fell in love with it. I recently got back into it and for the most part I can understand the game but getting my lil brother into the game the first thing he said was “this game looks way too hard and complicated” lol
I was much more addicted to wow than any other game (I think, in part, because I was much younger when I started), but I will say that I got much further in lost ark (in that I could keep up with the end game) and had much more fun in ff14 as an adult who works a full time nursing schedule. I mean I still kept my “wow friends” but none of us play wow anymore. I think there are just many other games that provide similar functions, without as much “work”. Ff14 is a great casual/social game where you can literally just RP if that’s what you want, I also feel like people are nicer. Lost Ark has a much more seemless raiding experience, while still having enough mechanics that it feels like a challenge.
as a fan of Fighting games, I have a ton of respect for pvp MMO players. thats a whole lot of dedication and perseverance, the sheer will to log hours to gain in-game skills and armor instead of just switching over to Street Fighter or Guilty Gear and just jump straight into online vs.
I love how most of the complaints of WOW pvp are solved in FF14. Get to 30, set up your 12 buttons, que in, have fun. That is it. Some people make it harder for themselves, but that is person to person. Gear dont matter. Rank doesnt really matter. Just get in and have fun. Plus it has egirls, money and fame 😂
a hard reset is this game's last hope . just start us at 0 with a new story different timeline and a new game design.
I don't want to go back in time or forward in time in the same zones...it's stupid confusing especially for new players. Trying to explain to new people why there's 2 Dalaran cites and not being able to interact with your friends because they're on a different timeline and Undercity only exists in the present if you talk to Zidormi and go back in time...wtf...just stop fucking up the old maps!
Classic wow pvp was great because of its simplicity. Each class had a nemesis and the combat was about using the correct skill at the correct time.
Except rogues and locks who were op in open world pvp and impossible to win duels
@@rodrigofreitas1316and many many specs were super useless in pvp and pve.
Classic wow just seems like a much better game than retail WoW for everyone who hasn't been playing WoW for 10 years.
Classic wow pvp is the most broken thing ever. If you like that you probably think tic-tac-toe is a competitive game
@@rodrigofreitas1316 As a warrior, from my open-world-only never-max-level-pvp perspective, rogues were an almost honest duel if they wanted one, while warlocks were a purple snacc that gave you heartburn. Hunters though, i might as well /sit and find where the graveyard is right now, there's no way in hell I can kill them between the 5 different slows and the pet, and Charge isn't castable in combat because that Technology hasn't been invented yet.
I tried WoW for like 30 days straight because I wanted to get somewhere with it. I made a Tauren Druid, and while I had a relatively good time, I can’t say I’d recommend it. As a new player, I found a lot of things generally confusing. I did give the Game a Fair Shot, but in all actuality the only story points I REALLY remember are part of Warlords of Draenor. And say what you want, I really enjoyed Warlords of Draenor. Like a lot more than I was expecting to.
For a little context, the reason why people rip on Warlords wasn't because they didn't like the content. It was ironically everything _but_ the content that people didn't like. People were waiting on all these zones, raids, and systems that just never got added, the release cadence was at that point some of the worst it had ever been, the garrisons were rated highly at first and were fun to build, but ran out of gas quick along with the rest of the expac...
..So just like with every other expansion, it was a really solid foundation to build off of that they just left wasting in the wind. Retail itself is kind of like a garrison with plot after plot but no buildings.
WoW puts most their effort into raids and mythic dungeons, i would also like to see a better portrayed story
Warlords of Draenor is a good leveling expansion. It was not a good two year expansion.
@@Arzoden And make the story more rewarding. Raids and mythic dungeons shouldn't be the only way to get gear upgrades. Doing quests in the world should reward tokens that can be traded in for mythic raid dungeon gear. Much like we used to be able to do in WotLK from daily heroics...
So WoW is a tough one. I played it from the beginning, enjoyed it, and did what I've done throughout the years...play till I'm more or less 'done' with the story, disappear, come back for next expansion. Repeat. But the issues listed here pretty much apply to even PvE type players too.
New content is great! What I DIDN'T like was needing to reinvent how things were done. Like...the way I used to tank as an *insert class here* no longer works because they've completely changed how it all works. And now here I am after not playing for a couple of years, and I basically have to restart in order to relearn the game again. It's just...it's not accessible to anyone who isn't going to consistently play on a weekly if not daily basis.
Glad i knew about the lore (Wc3) before playing WoW, that made the game pure joy for me
24:00 As a mage i agree, also the thing that isn't mentioned in that rotation guide is you also have to be on the move, you have to dodge mechanics and properly do mechanics to aid the raid. So on top of trying to maintain all those states you have to throw bombs to people, make sure you are doing things to the right adds which spawn in, stand in the right areas and also weave in your defensives at certain times so you don't get one shot by that mechanic which WILL one shot you unless you have there two defensives active.
And if you do all that and fail, others in the game will often attempt to make you feel bad about that, even further pushing people away
@@krelekari Yeah but those guys are toxic anyway. Or the groups who do that. Though you do feel worse a player though and that alone can cause you to not seek out activities with others. I know as a mage before this update i didn't try make a push group with my mage purely because i wasn't sure if it was me that sucked or i was just getting bad luck. I know i could pump out some good dmg but some times i couldn't repeat those states.
Just a real head fuk if you ask me.
They need an in game rotation helper for new players. The best players essentially set this up themselves with addons, and weak auras. But something like i think it was called herorotation would dramatically make the game more accessible to new players, help then perform, and allow them to push harder content, making them stick around.
They already have more rotation helpers than they know what to do with. Every class already has a build and spend core rotation with ability procs that they constantly need to watch their actionbars for.
That little game of Simon Says going on at the bottom of the screen takes up way more of my attention than anything my character's going up against.
I don't want to stare at my actionbar anymore. Classic doesn't force me to do that.
The "helper" is built into the game with simple descriptions. Most things are incredibly obvious, even to new players.
No instead of helping them getting up the addons they should REDUCE stuff so you dont need those
Then new player can focus on the real stuff.
No new player dosnt know as in case to create an DH level to max lvl to buy Guild equipt or how its called so he can level his first character faster.
Stuff like that ISNT explained if you dont have an friend
What jobs should a new player learn?
Why do i get kicked out of dungeons cause im new and try to learn?
Theres so much stuff happening to new player
Wow is just to hard for new people.@@degan1919
I tried to get into it like a year ago, got a account to lvl 50 of 60, but there was just wayyyy too much of a learning curve, nobody got time for all that unless you live with someone who’s been playing forever and show you the way
Imo Wildstar hit the sweetspot there. 10 abilities on your bar, iirc, but you learned more than that so you could create several loadouts and choose which abilities to use. The combat was action combat with boss encounters that WOW-like/FF XIV mechanics. And I do agree that some people (not everyone obviously) likes the fact that there is a lot at stake when to lose. The hardcore community shows that such people exist.
Man I miss Wildstar raiding.