Where i live i got a nice loop offroad mostly circuit i can do in around 2 hours . But its got hills in , around 7 punchy climbs . Great workout and enjoyable , but its not practical to intervals or zonal training . I either attack the hills or go up them nice and slowly, no in-between 😅
How timely. I hate doingi intervals as well, but I hate getting dropped. So the key for me, is hooking up with fast guys to push me. I will be 70 y.o. in April. Mixed feelings. Glad to have made it when so many don't but not glad to arrive at this fateful age. So today I was cruising at about 18mph in zone 1 or 2 when a monster rolled by on TT bike. I thought, perfect, I will get a semi draft from him and he blew by riding 23-24 mph...and hang on not riding too close. We rode about 3 miles or so and at my level of fitness, this was a big effort for me and not so much for him. When he turned off, I yelled, 'thanks for the interval' and he laughed in return. It was a 'big effort' and not an interval per se 'for me' and likely his normal cruising speed with his flat back on a high zut TT bike. Btw. gpt passed on the way home and repeated the same drill with another monster and I was proud of myself for hanging in with much younger and stronger riders. For me to just go out and do intervals? Never. I liked to be pushed by fast guys and always been that way for me too.
From where I’m from ‘intervals’ in 1985 involved chasing busses and trucks that went past….when you could be bothered! The things you do as a 20 year old with no concern for safety….lots of fun!
1980s. Coming down a slight grade behind a cement truck. Truck slowly accelerated to 40 mph. Great draft. Pulling off into the wind at 40 mph was a real eye opener!!!
The problem is now we're caught up listening to Peter Attias podcasts about vo2 max and listening to him talking to Tadje's coach about exercise and we apply it to us. The nugget of gold fron Chris here is, Chris liked riding his bike. In saying that, i love hill repeats.
I think Peter Attilia has become a bit full of himself and steps outside his lane of expertise to make some wild claims about the "right" way to do... everything. And uses scientific words (that many don't know) to make himself looks smart instead of being understandable to the people he's pontificating to. Huberman is getting to be the same- making claims that are not backed by any science and also way out of his lane. Too bad- they both started with good pods.
@@skiak004 I still enjoy listening to Peter because i enjoy the subject matter but not doing 80/20 training or specific vo2max workouts arent going to take ten years off my life
@@cracked229 Are you riding with the fastest triathletes in the world like Mike and I were riding with (Hunter Kemper, Alex Rukosuev, Lothar Leder, and some others). I've had friends talk about how hard their group rides are then come to ours (when I was riding) and get dropped within the first 10 or 20 minutes of one of our easier rides. Depends upon how hard those group rides are.
I can agree with most of that assuming the drive to the race is not all day in the car for a one hour race when you can do five hours with your friends and finish at your house. 👊👍
I almost never did group rides that taxed me. I barely raced at all but created structure by how a felt and adjusted day to day. Worked for getting me to be roughly top 10 in the TT in the US across all categories. I also hit the Olympic pursuit standard a few months before it was removed from the London program. Group rides aren't always gonna give you what you need
*gets out old man hat* Back in my day when I trained without power, I would pick a section of road that matched my specific needs for training (based on time of year and upcoming race needs). I would go as hard as I could for the length of the road/climb. So a 5-minute climb was a V02 effort, while a one hour climb was sweetspot/threshold. I wound up training the proper zones just based on road selection and max efforts for that given duration. Though I use power now, I still pace on RPE and I'm more accurate than just looking at numbers!
What you did was what our old school Track and Field team was doing in the 80s-- it is called SPEEDPLAY or Fartlek. You go by feel and not by a structured regimen of intervals. I personally prefer that because it is more fun and you are more at tune with your body and mind. Takes out the grudgery of training and makes you love riding your bike.
Damn. That’s so true. I loved training with the Tri riders because they always pulled thru and made the ride harder while some sprinter wanted to just sit in all day long so they could win the sprint. I had some riders (friends of mine) coming up to after doing a training group ride and say, it wasn’t really that hard out there like you said it would be, I would look at them and say, that’s because you were never on the front pulling with us. But it was never a tri guy saying that to me. 😜👊👊
Intervals are strictly structured efforts and you know when theyre coming. Nothing wrong with doing them as long as you mix in group rides where you do random efforts so your brain gets some training too! Unexpected efforts stress the entire system and cant be duplicated in structured interval sessions. 😊
This is awesome. As a relatively new rider trying to elevate my performance, it's good to hear, particularly from a world tour winner, there's more than one path to the top.
This video put a smile on my face. I started really getting into riding when I decided to pick up triathlon as a UCSD student. I loved the Saturday morning rides we did with the school team because we’d get to see all the other Saturday group rides on the road. Riding in San Diego means hills, so there’s always opportunities to put in BIG efforts. I also remember doing that Palomar climb and it’s no joke. I’m looking forward to more training and nutrition tips. It feels like a treat to get insight from the oldest grand tour winner in history.
For me personally, this video was soooo helpful! The recommendations for HIIT are all over the place, nearly impossible to figure out. Focusing more on hard efforts instead of a precision HIIT recipe just fits my training strategy so well. Thanks for sharing all that you did, Chris.
You are so so so lucky you weren't a swimmer - interval workout 12 times a week. For the record, our workouts were only 2 hours twice a day (except Saturday morning 3 hours, I hated it), and I ate before and after each workout. I usually needed to eat to get good quality intervals.
As far as running goes, I never did intervals. Since recently getting on a program I added them and I feel like I've progressed so much more, so much faster than I ever have. However, it's really awesome to hear a world class elite athlete say he just goes off of feel. I feel like people who do that get bullied into following programs, when if you're making progress and you're happy, then why not go off of feel if it works. Great video.
Intersting that you can reach a very high level without doing intervals just doing efforts and having fun that makes me question my training cuz i have more fun when i dont do intervals, when i just go hard and do random efforts or group rides.
Same, I worked my way to a pro mtb license without doing intervals. I did do hill repeats. Although, I started doing intervals after I turned 55. Having fun with them so far..and seems like time efficient way to retain fitness.
Your the first person I've watched that has clarified what we ( the average amateur) need to eat for the most common 1.5 - 2hrs group rides. Like your commenter mentioned I also never need to eat until after my ride...racing is different but no need to stuff yourself with calories on a group ride..seen too many cyclist put on more weight the more they ride. Thanks for the clarity.
When riding outside, hills themselves are interval-like but of random length / time duration and taken as feel like, so in Chris' book are by definition not internals. But they do task the system more and substitute for intervals in some ways. I totally agree that to be able to handle the dynamics of racing that you have to train to be able to handle the unexpected....and go harder and longer than you'd anticipate (or wish to do) before things settle down again. That one of the many good reasons to ride outside. If riding indoors, if someone is not doing a Swift session (I tend not to, I already spend much of my day in front of a computer screen as it is), it's helpful to have intervals because otherwise it's boring with no visual stimuli. Intervals indoors can increase my effort instead of mindlessly plodding along.
Thanks Chris! I used to do intervals until I realized I never got better! Intervals did nothing for my endurance after 2 hrs of riding / racing. I'm glad to hear that you went on feel and took this to a grand tour and won! I have been going on feel for the past 2 years and continue to improve! Thank you!
Cali has the climate in the world, I was at riverside College in the 90’s track team, Scott parks head coach.. smashed out the track sessions in the Cali heat low wind around 7pm onwards was the dream ❤☀️☀️☀️☀️👌🙏 only rained once 😀
So glad I stumbled upon your channel Chris. Having raced in Italy on a team in the 90s, I never did intervals but the efforts to chase down a Fiat were brutal. Ok, I'm going to binge watch the rest of your awesome personal knowledge videos now.
Thanks for the explanation. I'm 62 and have been doing structured training with a popular app for the first time, so I'm doing 6x5 intervals, etc. for the first time. It does seem a bit contrived compared to just putting in hard efforts on a group ride. I think the value of structured training is it gets me on my bike on days when I might not have ridden otherwise. Apart from that, it seems like intervals are just a inferior imitation of some of the dynamics of a good group ride.
Except, it isn’t. Group rides are all over the place. While group rides do promote physiological changes, it’s a blunt hammer compared to the surgical accuracy of a properly planned and calibrated interval training targeted at your own needs.
@@87togabito I agree with you in theory. On any given day there’s probably an optimum workout that I should be doing. The hard part is figuring out what that is beyond the broad strokes of getting in plenty of endurance and 2 or 3 hard days per week. If you’re a modern pro with a team of experts who’s getting regular blood work, having lactate levels checked during workouts, etc., it’s probably possible to get very specific about what to do and when to do it. However, most of us are getting canned training blocks from apps that contain levels of specificity that border on silly. My program had me do a workout the other day with 6 sets of 5 30 second efforts at wattages just above or below FTP with 20 seconds of easy pedaling between efforts and 12 easy mins. between sets. This level of detail sounds very scientific, but is there evidence showing that such interval training is better than what a motivated athlete does self-regulating effort on a group ride? If so, I’d love to see it. I’ve got nothing against intervals. I do them every week. I’m just skeptical that they’re better than other hard efforts like group rides.
Love you sharing your real life experience, Chris. I’ve been off the bike for many years now, but learning how a professional did it so very interesting. Thanks again.
Kenny Souza, that's a name I haven't heard in a while. Sweet training grp. My club did 10mi itt on Tuesdays and long rides on Sunday mornings. Always good training with that club.
Yeah that Wed Camp Pendleton ride would rip your legs off. But I still love apps like TrainerRoad when it’s raining and I’m stuck inside. Riding in rain is fun too but then your stuck washing the bike a lot
Like many folks out there I assume when training for racing in the New England circuit intervals were a regular part of my training. My coach was an experienced Cat 1 racer for a national team...my coach was a pretty successful racer having some results at the National level. His rationale for training was, if you have a full time job and are not a paid, full time, and professional athlete, interval training is an important part of the training program because we (folks with full time jobs where racing is a fun part of our non-working life) don't have 6-8 hours a day to train on the bike and do longer workouts. It was more like 20 someodd hours a week of training that was feasible. I suspect this is why many coaches provide interval-based workouts for clients? But as far as the food stuff, that just seems ridiculous to avoid that topic as a coach. Mine certainly didn't. He was very specific about eating off and on the bike for max. performance. And as a triathlete as well, it's necessary to figure out nutrition or you'll completely fall apart in your race. Same on the bike. Nutrition seems as essential as talking about transitions as opportunitites in triathlon, and effective drafting or positioning in the peleton in cycling.
I do a few structured interval rides on occasion on the trainer to get myself used to those hard efforts for climbs. Reddit seems to have a whole nother idea why you didnt do intervals but idk. Youre still one of my faves to listen to!
well said Chris, you got the og wisdom, listen to the body, know your effort and fatigue levels - train as you would race, problem for many is not inducing too much fatigue, and intervals etc guard against that, where you have developed an internal mechanism. of course we have got to be happy on the bike and enjoy the experience you got that!
Closest I ever got to “intervals” was what we called “hill repeats”. You go hard up the hill, turn around and spin down it, then turn around and do the climb hard again. Rinse and repeat!
I’ve found intervals on a trainer lets you go closer to the edge of exploding. When the watt meter is watching every quarter pedal revolution, the ability to not ever lose those last 3-5 watts over 20’ (or whatever) of pure torture gives great progress. In my experience. But it really hurts.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge, Chris. Its great to hear from someone as experienced as you. It’s really hard to give general cycling advice because everyone rides differently, but I try to learn from everyone.
Bravo Chris! Great stuff as always! It is all about building the specific cycling "Gears" that will benefit each rider the most. Some love long gravel rides, some excel at crits and others love testing themselves on the TT Bike. I would much rather join a group ride, race or test myself on a local Strava section as motivation to push my limits. Chasing other riders or chasing my own PB a couple times a week provides more than enough time in zones 4-6 to keep me fit and fast. The key is doing it consistently week after week!
A crit crash is why I bailed on USCF racing in '84, no knock on the USCF as they did a great job with amateur races in the DC area as I was a points-racing Cat. 3 about to get to Cat. 2. But a flip and hard landing and a bent steel frame, and zero concern from my faux teammates, made it easy for me to break away from that scene, I couldn't afford to be sidelined by injuries, not to mention permanent damage. And it made no sense to risk my future over some buckin' bronco intent on making it to the next Tour without regard to the fundamentals of racing. Yet I got a taste of the pro experience for three months in '86 when I was a full-time bike messenger in DC as I pursued a position in my career field. And 12-hours a day on a bike was an amazing experience, an hour commute either way and up to ten hours as a messenger with a big ol' two-way radio and a dispatcher always barking commands at me. "Two-Five, where you at, Two-Five." It was great, it was intense, and who knew, it was the golden age for couriers before the internet and cell phones. And wow, all that riding under deadline sure did elicit a pro-like commitment to do it well.
Swami rides weren't much safer. Coming south from Carlsbad one Saturday and there were Swamis all over the road just north of the Lagoon after someone clipped some road furniture and took down a major part of the group.@@ChrisHornerCycling
Ya spot on.. to many cafe stop riders last 15 year think most only ride bikes these days to go to cafes and Bragg in office how many miles they have done .They have sat in all the way round ride and been hanging off back ever little click in road
Excellent video Chris, I agree with you 100% on caloric consumption. Too many people are fixated on bonking when they just need to ride their bike. After the ride I believe a good IPA or Guinness is the best nutrition. Or go to pannikins and get some pastries
Cool my training to Cat 1/2 was similar to you. My coach was all about rhythm/flow of a group ride/race. I should note I had power meter all the time and you could gauge to power required to keep the speed up, it was also more motivating to push in group vs by your self with intervals. Now with that being said my coach always wanted me to be disciplined, meaning don’t just whack it when hitting the front, be smart in how you apply the power. Sometimes on easy days in group rides it almost felt like lactate clearing too by sitting in for 3-5min than hitting the front for 10-60 sec doing Z5-Z6 momentarily. Funny without even prescribing intervals, there are very good group rides that can be structured to replicate interval training without it even feeling like it. More fun. I still did occasional intervals tho, but nothing like you see with trainer road or zwift telling people to complicate their trading. My goodness I would poke my eye out just seeing some of those workout profiles. Keep it simple dude…
Thanks, Chris, I really appreciate your real-world experience and recollections, not that there is anything wrong with training 'by the book' just that, yeah, we grow up having a blast on our bikes and then it seems we're expected to be new recruits who set all of that aside for training rules and regulations, tho', as you stated, for some riders structured paint-by-numbers exercising is the way to go and I tip my thrift-store exercise bike in their direction. And no knock on any of it as each of us is an ambassador of fitness within our communities of people on a daily basis and that is perhaps our greatest role. And re this vid, Chris, I like this format of yours, responding to comments with true give-and-take and I do find it fascinating how each of us has different routines and styles, some permanently and some temporarily. Oh, and I also like your corrections, like Saturday crits were actually Tuesdays and Thursdays. 😀
Thats crazy cause I got one of my best training tips from some source I cant remember who was telling a story about Chris Horner COUNTING audibly while training. I started counting out loud during hard intervals and found they felt shorter when doing so and I always assumed this was a secret Chris discovered while doing intervals himself. What a knucklehead I was!
Clearly, Chris, you developed as a cyclist before the proliferation of bike computers (with training functionality) and power meters. Your racing and competitive group rides, and even solo efforts on the hills in SoCal developed your energy systems. So, you never strictly used a structured training workout (intervals, in your parlance). Today, coaches, the “science”, and easy access to cycling computers and power sensor all point to a different age of cycling/training. Today, I’d wager that most - if not all - Cat and pro cyclists use structured workouts, and lots of racing to develop their performance. Old school vs where it’s at today! Love your content. Ride on!
Chris ❤ მჯერა ბევრს დაეხმარება შენი ანგელოზობა რჩევები. შენ რაც შეძელი ღვთის მადლი იყო... შენ ხარ ჭარხალი სტაფილოთა შორის. არცრთი არ დებს კარიერის ბოლოს შენსავით... მეფე ხარ მეფეთა შორის... მადლობა :*
i came to cycling from another sport but had an extensive training background and understand how to train on feel. the guys i ride with can't fathom that i don't use training plans, power meters etc but still make gains each year. i always say it's just about the feel.
Ive done intervals in the early 80s, when i was doing criteriums mostly. Lamppost to lamppost when alone, 2 minute intervals when with a training mate. But definitely not enough. I was and am a diesel so to speak. Big engine. Good at time trials, always have been. But not good at winning or prizes. Unless solo! And yes, after a while, the club races become your training (attack, attack, attack! ( I didn't need someone else to attack, attacked on my own.) But in the very competitive Dutch criterium scene, im sure i missed out a bit because of lack of serious interval training.
Interesting. I do interval in the start of the year to get my shape at a good base. I do about 20km flat hard riding, then go up a small steep hill that's about 2 minutes climbing. I do that about 10 times. Then again about 20 or 30 km flat hard riding. After a few weeks I stop interval and make longer rides of 3 to 4 hours. Now I'm traveling with my bike and pulling my way too heavy trailer. I do rides of 5 to 7 hours. Not fast since almost always headwind. So do about 100 km in a good day. I passed 40 and it's not as it used to be. I used to think of my bike and I was good. Now it is hard work to get somewhere acceptable, but can't reach the speeds and power I used to. Time for some mechanical doping I'd say. Cheers
Whenever I don't want to do my planned VO2 intervals, I do a Zwift race and call it a day. It's unstructured training but gets results. I've done intervals my whole life and agree they can become monotonous, especially through the winter when there are fewer group rides going out.
I think isotonic drinks preferably with phenylalanine added in is critical for performance if youre doing intervals or riding hard you can get phenylalanine from food sources but i think supplementation hasnt been spoken about enough with regards to sports science
Where did the Tuesday and Thursday night Crits happen back then Chris? Fiesta island still goes down but I heard there was also a practice crit in Sorento valley?
I think it in large part comes down to semantics. When Chris says he never went easy, and then goes on to say he was riding at 200-220 watts, this would be straight up zone 2 training for most pros. Even somebody like me, not remotely close to pro level, or even good amateur level, recently finished last in my masters cat in a race, even I can do 220+ watts at least for over an hour, and strava would probably set me at 85% intensity then. But I like the philosophy of doing what you think is fun on the bike, not turning it into your job, especially when it is not your job. Fun is key to getting the work done !
I love to hear that intervals are unnessesary , even for a top-class pro. Myself I am less ambitious, I only ride for fun and fitness, fighting fatness and transporting. I never do intervals, but I do hard sections. When I went to work on friday, 17 km ride, 47 minutes i was going reasonably fast, maybe hard zone two with some harder efforts when I tried to folllow stronger riders, and from km 12,6 to 14,6 there is a climb where I gave it all, starting at treshold and hitting max pulse or three beats below max at ca 14 km. That hill is a 10 minute full effort and in my mind it is training that ok replaces intervals.
Thanks Chris back in my late 20s I was going my best on the bike and was just racing on a Saturday with big miles in between lately I've been obsessed with intervals and not as good, maybe it's age but I'm going back to miles and races it's more fun😂
Hey Chris, I can understand where you're coming from. However, a commodity that a lot of us are lacking is Time. I only have about an hour or so after work to put work in, so intervals seem to be the most bang for your buck since I don't have immediate access to quality hills. I'm not sure who you're videos are geared towards but it would be helpful to clarify at the intro if you're speaking to kids in their 20s or weekend warrior types since I don't think this knowledge applies to all.
For what its worth. I personally went intervals free and racing myself into shape prior 25 yo. After that, I had to start doing intervals since, I guess, I needed to accumulate more time of intensity sollicitation. Interval training, because you allow recovery time between bits of effort allows you to spend more time at intensity than you would be able to if you were trying to hold that power to exhaustion. It did make me a faster rider. That said, everyone should do what they feel is good, but it is also good try everything outside of your actual training habits.
hi Chris, you've been quite transparent about doping in cycling before. I am just curious if there were any doping substances the riders took to replace "interval training"? I heard team Sky riders were using a lot of salt in their races apparently needed from some recipe they used to neutralize the acid in the blood.
Great video Chris! I remember you when I lived in San Diego and the rides your talking about as a weekend warrior master racer when I was in the San Diego Cylcovets! lol I have also ridden the palomar mountain climb on that route too from Rincon! Question: In your opinion, how do you think they would categorize the Palomar mountain climb if it were on a stage in the tour? How does it compare to some of the really big tour cat 1 and beyond climbs? Just curious! Thanks for all your great videos! Bob
Me too. I wouldn’t argue with no eating before training if it’s that early in the morning but certainly if the training was later in the day I would always prefer to eat before the ride and then less afterwards. 👊👊
I also never do Intervals. I just lay on the couch and eat cheetos.
If you do hills, you do intervals.
Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.
Where i live i got a nice loop offroad mostly circuit i can do in around 2 hours . But its got hills in , around 7 punchy climbs . Great workout and enjoyable , but its not practical to intervals or zonal training . I either attack the hills or go up them nice and slowly, no in-between 😅
Exactly 60 km with a 1km of climbing... Hills which you try to go up as fast as possible...going past red
Yes they are effectively the same, but the mental aspect is quite different 😉
👊👊
which is why I'd rather do hills than set number of intervals@@discbrakefan
How timely. I hate doingi intervals as well, but I hate getting dropped. So the key for me, is hooking up with fast guys to push me.
I will be 70 y.o. in April. Mixed feelings. Glad to have made it when so many don't but not glad to arrive at this fateful age.
So today I was cruising at about 18mph in zone 1 or 2 when a monster rolled by on TT bike. I thought, perfect, I will get a semi draft from him and he blew by riding 23-24 mph...and hang on not riding too close. We rode about 3 miles or so and at my level of fitness, this was a big effort for me and not so much for him. When he turned off, I yelled, 'thanks for the interval' and he laughed in return.
It was a 'big effort' and not an interval per se 'for me' and likely his normal cruising speed with his flat back on a high zut TT bike.
Btw. gpt passed on the way home and repeated the same drill with another monster and I was proud of myself for hanging in with much younger and stronger riders. For me to just go out and do intervals? Never. I liked to be pushed by fast guys and always been that way for me too.
From where I’m from ‘intervals’ in 1985 involved chasing busses and trucks that went past….when you could be bothered!
The things you do as a 20 year old with no concern for safety….lots of fun!
1980s. Coming down a slight grade behind a cement truck. Truck slowly accelerated to 40 mph. Great draft. Pulling off into the wind at 40 mph was a real eye opener!!!
The problem is now we're caught up listening to Peter Attias podcasts about vo2 max and listening to him talking to Tadje's coach about exercise and we apply it to us.
The nugget of gold fron Chris here is, Chris liked riding his bike.
In saying that, i love hill repeats.
I think Peter Attilia has become a bit full of himself and steps outside his lane of expertise to make some wild claims about the "right" way to do... everything. And uses scientific words (that many don't know) to make himself looks smart instead of being understandable to the people he's pontificating to. Huberman is getting to be the same- making claims that are not backed by any science and also way out of his lane. Too bad- they both started with good pods.
@@skiak004 I still enjoy listening to Peter because i enjoy the subject matter but not doing 80/20 training or specific vo2max workouts arent going to take ten years off my life
"don't do intervals, when a group ride is available... don't do a group ride when a race is available", my motto for those racing years
@@cracked229 Are you riding with the fastest triathletes in the world like Mike and I were riding with (Hunter Kemper, Alex Rukosuev, Lothar Leder, and some others). I've had friends talk about how hard their group rides are then come to ours (when I was riding) and get dropped within the first 10 or 20 minutes of one of our easier rides. Depends upon how hard those group rides are.
LMFAO! Funny stuff
@@cracked229 They do too many and likely not enough else. One or two hard ones per week is enough. Rest need be long endurance.
I can agree with most of that assuming the drive to the race is not all day in the car for a one hour race when you can do five hours with your friends and finish at your house. 👊👍
I almost never did group rides that taxed me. I barely raced at all but created structure by how a felt and adjusted day to day. Worked for getting me to be roughly top 10 in the TT in the US across all categories. I also hit the Olympic pursuit standard a few months before it was removed from the London program. Group rides aren't always gonna give you what you need
*gets out old man hat* Back in my day when I trained without power, I would pick a section of road that matched my specific needs for training (based on time of year and upcoming race needs). I would go as hard as I could for the length of the road/climb. So a 5-minute climb was a V02 effort, while a one hour climb was sweetspot/threshold. I wound up training the proper zones just based on road selection and max efforts for that given duration. Though I use power now, I still pace on RPE and I'm more accurate than just looking at numbers!
What you did was what our old school Track and Field team was doing in the 80s-- it is called SPEEDPLAY or Fartlek.
You go by feel and not by a structured regimen of intervals. I personally prefer that because it is more fun and you are more at tune with your body and mind. Takes out the grudgery of training and makes you love riding your bike.
The great thing about riding with triathletes is they don't expect you to pull!
Damn. That’s so true. I loved training with the Tri riders because they always pulled thru and made the ride harder while some sprinter wanted to just sit in all day long so they could win the sprint. I had some riders (friends of mine) coming up to after doing a training group ride and say, it wasn’t really that hard out there like you said it would be, I would look at them and say, that’s because you were never on the front pulling with us. But it was never a tri guy saying that to me. 😜👊👊
Intervals are strictly structured efforts and you know when theyre coming. Nothing wrong with doing them as long as you mix in group rides where you do random efforts so your brain gets some training too! Unexpected efforts stress the entire system and cant be duplicated in structured interval sessions. 😊
Your absolutely right. It’s much tougher mentally to react to someone else’s move.
This is awesome. As a relatively new rider trying to elevate my performance, it's good to hear, particularly from a world tour winner, there's more than one path to the top.
So glad to hear this Chris! For years I've felt guilty for hating intervals and never doing them. Now I can free myself from this remorse lol!
😂😂👊👊
Spot on 35 + years never done intervals 😂😂🎉
This video put a smile on my face. I started really getting into riding when I decided to pick up triathlon as a UCSD student. I loved the Saturday morning rides we did with the school team because we’d get to see all the other Saturday group rides on the road. Riding in San Diego means hills, so there’s always opportunities to put in BIG efforts. I also remember doing that Palomar climb and it’s no joke.
I’m looking forward to more training and nutrition tips. It feels like a treat to get insight from the oldest grand tour winner in history.
Love the subtle KOM flex, Chris 🤣💪🏽
Hehehe. We just slipped that in there all quietly like. 😂👊👊🏆
For me personally, this video was soooo helpful! The recommendations for HIIT are all over the place, nearly impossible to figure out. Focusing more on hard efforts instead of a precision HIIT recipe just fits my training strategy so well. Thanks for sharing all that you did, Chris.
You are so so so lucky you weren't a swimmer - interval workout 12 times a week.
For the record, our workouts were only 2 hours twice a day (except Saturday morning 3 hours, I hated it), and I ate before and after each workout. I usually needed to eat to get good quality intervals.
Old school, love it
A man after my own heart! 👍
As far as running goes, I never did intervals. Since recently getting on a program I added them and I feel like I've progressed so much more, so much faster than I ever have. However, it's really awesome to hear a world class elite athlete say he just goes off of feel. I feel like people who do that get bullied into following programs, when if you're making progress and you're happy, then why not go off of feel if it works. Great video.
Intersting that you can reach a very high level without doing intervals just doing efforts and having fun that makes me question my training cuz i have more fun when i dont do intervals, when i just go hard and do random efforts or group rides.
Same, I worked my way to a pro mtb license without doing intervals. I did do hill repeats. Although, I started doing intervals after I turned 55. Having fun with them so far..and seems like time efficient way to retain fitness.
Id still say that would be vo2 max training and give the same results.
Yep. Intervals are time efficient if you don’t have all day to train and just don’t live close to the hills. 🤔👍
Your the first person I've watched that has clarified what we ( the average amateur) need to eat for the most common 1.5 - 2hrs group rides. Like your commenter mentioned I also never need to eat until after my ride...racing is different but no need to stuff yourself with calories on a group ride..seen too many cyclist put on more weight the more they ride. Thanks for the clarity.
When riding outside, hills themselves are interval-like but of random length / time duration and taken as feel like, so in Chris' book are by definition not internals. But they do task the system more and substitute for intervals in some ways. I totally agree that to be able to handle the dynamics of racing that you have to train to be able to handle the unexpected....and go harder and longer than you'd anticipate (or wish to do) before things settle down again. That one of the many good reasons to ride outside. If riding indoors, if someone is not doing a Swift session (I tend not to, I already spend much of my day in front of a computer screen as it is), it's helpful to have intervals because otherwise it's boring with no visual stimuli. Intervals indoors can increase my effort instead of mindlessly plodding along.
Hey Chris, very classy to come back as promised to clarify your training methods. Thanks
Thanks Chris! I used to do intervals until I realized I never got better! Intervals did nothing for my endurance after 2 hrs of riding / racing. I'm glad to hear that you went on feel and took this to a grand tour and won! I have been going on feel for the past 2 years and continue to improve! Thank you!
Nice to hear. And hopefully you are enjoying the bike even more now. 👊👊
Cali has the climate in the world, I was at riverside College in the 90’s track team, Scott parks head coach.. smashed out the track sessions in the Cali heat low wind around 7pm onwards was the dream ❤☀️☀️☀️☀️👌🙏 only rained once 😀
So glad I stumbled upon your channel Chris. Having raced in Italy on a team in the 90s, I never did intervals but the efforts to chase down a Fiat were brutal. Ok, I'm going to binge watch the rest of your awesome personal knowledge videos now.
I still remember when you lapped the whole field in Sorrento Valley! Your raw talent is admirable Chris.
Thanks for the explanation. I'm 62 and have been doing structured training with a popular app for the first time, so I'm doing 6x5 intervals, etc. for the first time. It does seem a bit contrived compared to just putting in hard efforts on a group ride. I think the value of structured training is it gets me on my bike on days when I might not have ridden otherwise. Apart from that, it seems like intervals are just a inferior imitation of some of the dynamics of a good group ride.
Except, it isn’t. Group rides are all over the place. While group rides do promote physiological changes, it’s a blunt hammer compared to the surgical accuracy of a properly planned and calibrated interval training targeted at your own needs.
@@87togabito I agree with you in theory. On any given day there’s probably an optimum workout that I should be doing. The hard part is figuring out what that is beyond the broad strokes of getting in plenty of endurance and 2 or 3 hard days per week. If you’re a modern pro with a team of experts who’s getting regular blood work, having lactate levels checked during workouts, etc., it’s probably possible to get very specific about what to do and when to do it.
However, most of us are getting canned training blocks from apps that contain levels of specificity that border on silly. My program had me do a workout the other day with 6 sets of 5 30 second efforts at wattages just above or below FTP with 20 seconds of easy pedaling between efforts and 12 easy mins. between sets. This level of detail sounds very scientific, but is there evidence showing that such interval training is better than what a motivated athlete does self-regulating effort on a group ride? If so, I’d love to see it.
I’ve got nothing against intervals. I do them every week. I’m just skeptical that they’re better than other hard efforts like group rides.
Love you sharing your real life experience, Chris. I’ve been off the bike for many years now, but learning how a professional did it so very interesting. Thanks again.
@chris horner, Bloody excellent
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Kenny Souza, that's a name I haven't heard in a while. Sweet training grp.
My club did 10mi itt on Tuesdays and long rides on Sunday mornings. Always good training with that club.
Back in the day the Swami’s club was really into racing so I had lots of help and guidance from many of the club guys there. 👊👊
Love to hear the shoutout back down to SoCal! Wed ride and Swami's are the mainstay of our community!
San Diego was and is perfect for training. 👊👊
Yeah that Wed Camp Pendleton ride would rip your legs off. But I still love apps like TrainerRoad when it’s raining and I’m stuck inside. Riding in rain is fun too but then your stuck washing the bike a lot
Anyone remember when doing tabata sprints was the flavor of the month?
Chris Horner at the start line "Never mess with the Sicilian when DEATH is on the line!!"
Thanks for the follow up video Chris. I enjoy your race analysis and training discussions. Have great year 2024.
Like many folks out there I assume when training for racing in the New England circuit intervals were a regular part of my training. My coach was an experienced Cat 1 racer for a national team...my coach was a pretty successful racer having some results at the National level. His rationale for training was, if you have a full time job and are not a paid, full time, and professional athlete, interval training is an important part of the training program because we (folks with full time jobs where racing is a fun part of our non-working life) don't have 6-8 hours a day to train on the bike and do longer workouts. It was more like 20 someodd hours a week of training that was feasible. I suspect this is why many coaches provide interval-based workouts for clients? But as far as the food stuff, that just seems ridiculous to avoid that topic as a coach. Mine certainly didn't. He was very specific about eating off and on the bike for max. performance. And as a triathlete as well, it's necessary to figure out nutrition or you'll completely fall apart in your race. Same on the bike. Nutrition seems as essential as talking about transitions as opportunitites in triathlon, and effective drafting or positioning in the peleton in cycling.
I do a few structured interval rides on occasion on the trainer to get myself used to those hard efforts for climbs.
Reddit seems to have a whole nother idea why you didnt do intervals but idk. Youre still one of my faves to listen to!
So long as you are getting stronger and still want to ride the bike each day. Go with it if it’s working. 👊👊🚲
well said Chris, you got the og wisdom, listen to the body, know your effort and fatigue levels - train as you would race, problem for many is not inducing too much fatigue, and intervals etc guard against that, where you have developed an internal mechanism. of course we have got to be happy on the bike and enjoy the experience you got that!
Closest I ever got to “intervals” was what we called “hill repeats”. You go hard up the hill, turn around and spin down it, then turn around and do the climb hard again. Rinse and repeat!
Evything u did it paid off perfectly. U were an amazing champ
Thanks 👊🙏
I’ve found intervals on a trainer lets you go closer to the edge of exploding. When the watt meter is watching every quarter pedal revolution, the ability to not ever lose those last 3-5 watts over 20’ (or whatever) of pure torture gives great progress. In my experience. But it really hurts.
I was waiting for this video and it came even sooner than expected. Boom!
Old-school training required at least six weeks of low-intensity aerobic base-building before adding intervals and tempos for conditioning.
Chris You’re always spot on. Thanks for all your videos. Staying happy on the Bike Keeps you on the bike. Greetings from Canada
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Thanks for sharing your knowledge, Chris. Its great to hear from someone as experienced as you. It’s really hard to give general cycling advice because everyone rides differently, but I try to learn from everyone.
Great lessons from this vid Chris, thanks!
Chris..spot on great clarity.
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Bravo Chris! Great stuff as always! It is all about building the specific cycling "Gears" that will benefit each rider the most. Some love long gravel rides, some excel at crits and others love testing themselves on the TT Bike. I would much rather join a group ride, race or test myself on a local Strava section as motivation to push my limits. Chasing other riders or chasing my own PB a couple times a week provides more than enough time in zones 4-6 to keep me fit and fast. The key is doing it consistently week after week!
Chris, this is incredible content. Thank you. 🦋
Tuesday and Thursday at Fiesta Island! Great training except for the CRASHES. Surprised you avoided some season altering injury doing those rides.
I never did Fiesta Island. 🥲👍
A crit crash is why I bailed on USCF racing in '84, no knock on the USCF as they did a great job with amateur races in the DC area as I was a points-racing Cat. 3 about to get to Cat. 2. But a flip and hard landing and a bent steel frame, and zero concern from my faux teammates, made it easy for me to break away from that scene, I couldn't afford to be sidelined by injuries, not to mention permanent damage. And it made no sense to risk my future over some buckin' bronco intent on making it to the next Tour without regard to the fundamentals of racing. Yet I got a taste of the pro experience for three months in '86 when I was a full-time bike messenger in DC as I pursued a position in my career field. And 12-hours a day on a bike was an amazing experience, an hour commute either way and up to ten hours as a messenger with a big ol' two-way radio and a dispatcher always barking commands at me. "Two-Five, where you at, Two-Five." It was great, it was intense, and who knew, it was the golden age for couriers before the internet and cell phones. And wow, all that riding under deadline sure did elicit a pro-like commitment to do it well.
Swami rides weren't much safer. Coming south from Carlsbad one Saturday and there were Swamis all over the road just north of the Lagoon after someone clipped some road furniture and took down a major part of the group.@@ChrisHornerCycling
Ya spot on.. to many cafe stop riders last 15 year think most only ride bikes these days to go to cafes and Bragg in office how many miles they have done .They have sat in all the way round ride and been hanging off back ever little click in road
Excellent video Chris, I agree with you 100% on caloric consumption. Too many people are fixated on bonking when they just need to ride their bike. After the ride I believe a good IPA or Guinness is the best nutrition. Or go to pannikins and get some pastries
8:06 aaaawwwww. what a guy. thinkin of us again. schucks
Cool my training to Cat 1/2 was similar to you. My coach was all about rhythm/flow of a group ride/race. I should note I had power meter all the time and you could gauge to power required to keep the speed up, it was also more motivating to push in group vs by your self with intervals. Now with that being said my coach always wanted me to be disciplined, meaning don’t just whack it when hitting the front, be smart in how you apply the power. Sometimes on easy days in group rides it almost felt like lactate clearing too by sitting in for 3-5min than hitting the front for 10-60 sec doing Z5-Z6 momentarily. Funny without even prescribing intervals, there are very good group rides that can be structured to replicate interval training without it even feeling like it. More fun. I still did occasional intervals tho, but nothing like you see with trainer road or zwift telling people to complicate their trading. My goodness I would poke my eye out just seeing some of those workout profiles. Keep it simple dude…
Exactly. Way more fun on a group ride. 👍👊
Thanks, Chris, I really appreciate your real-world experience and recollections, not that there is anything wrong with training 'by the book' just that, yeah, we grow up having a blast on our bikes and then it seems we're expected to be new recruits who set all of that aside for training rules and regulations, tho', as you stated, for some riders structured paint-by-numbers exercising is the way to go and I tip my thrift-store exercise bike in their direction. And no knock on any of it as each of us is an ambassador of fitness within our communities of people on a daily basis and that is perhaps our greatest role. And re this vid, Chris, I like this format of yours, responding to comments with true give-and-take and I do find it fascinating how each of us has different routines and styles, some permanently and some temporarily. Oh, and I also like your corrections, like Saturday crits were actually Tuesdays and Thursdays. 😀
Hehehe. I had to fix that cause it would have driven me crazy. 👊👊
these are great. Keep em coming. Looking forward to riding outside in New England tomorrow. San Diego weather sounds pretty nice.
Good luck. 😱🥶😜👊
Thx for sharing 🚴♂️
Very informative, Coach
Glad you enjoyed the video Lars. 👊👊👊👊👊👊👊👊👊
SPOT ON Mr. Horner
Thats crazy cause I got one of my best training tips from some source I cant remember who was telling a story about Chris Horner COUNTING audibly while training. I started counting out loud during hard intervals and found they felt shorter when doing so and I always assumed this was a secret Chris discovered while doing intervals himself. What a knucklehead I was!
Clearly, Chris, you developed as a cyclist before the proliferation of bike computers (with training functionality) and power meters. Your racing and competitive group rides, and even solo efforts on the hills in SoCal developed your energy systems. So, you never strictly used a structured training workout (intervals, in your parlance). Today, coaches, the “science”, and easy access to cycling computers and power sensor all point to a different age of cycling/training. Today, I’d wager that most - if not all - Cat and pro cyclists use structured workouts, and lots of racing to develop their performance. Old school vs where it’s at today!
Love your content. Ride on!
Mind talking about any weight training you may have done? Thanks for keeping it real!
Thank you so much 🖖
Regarding that KOM, I’m sure Phil Gaimon watching this channel had a wry smile seeing you ahead of him!
He's only a few seconds back from Horner which is good enough for just about anybody. 🛋️🦋
Chris ❤ მჯერა ბევრს დაეხმარება შენი ანგელოზობა რჩევები. შენ რაც შეძელი ღვთის მადლი იყო... შენ ხარ ჭარხალი სტაფილოთა შორის. არცრთი არ დებს კარიერის ბოლოს შენსავით... მეფე ხარ მეფეთა შორის... მადლობა :*
Glad you are enjoying the channel. 👊👊
Some stuff (especially off-road) requires going the hardest just to stay on the bike.
i came to cycling from another sport but had an extensive training background and understand how to train on feel. the guys i ride with can't fathom that i don't use training plans, power meters etc but still make gains each year. i always say it's just about the feel.
Thanks for the video, puts things in perspective.
Yet again thanks for these informative videos, i heard you say you never did it during your pro career and i was dumbfounded 😂
Ive done intervals in the early 80s, when i was doing criteriums mostly. Lamppost to lamppost when alone, 2 minute intervals when with a training mate. But definitely not enough.
I was and am a diesel so to speak. Big engine. Good at time trials, always have been. But not good at winning or prizes. Unless solo!
And yes, after a while, the club races become your training (attack, attack, attack! ( I didn't need someone else to attack, attacked on my own.)
But in the very competitive Dutch criterium scene, im sure i missed out a bit because of lack of serious interval training.
Feel is important! RPE needs to fit the effort.
I think the term is “structured intervals “.
What a legend. Chris has been at it so long he remembers when we called it biathlon. Now duathlon.
That’s a good looking shirt. Don’t lose it.
Hey Chris. Didn't you do an interval up Sierra Rd when you won the Tour of California ? Do you recall you time up Sierra Rd ?
Interesting. I do interval in the start of the year to get my shape at a good base. I do about 20km flat hard riding, then go up a small steep hill that's about 2 minutes climbing. I do that about 10 times. Then again about 20 or 30 km flat hard riding. After a few weeks I stop interval and make longer rides of 3 to 4 hours.
Now I'm traveling with my bike and pulling my way too heavy trailer. I do rides of 5 to 7 hours. Not fast since almost always headwind. So do about 100 km in a good day. I passed 40 and it's not as it used to be. I used to think of my bike and I was good. Now it is hard work to get somewhere acceptable, but can't reach the speeds and power I used to. Time for some mechanical doping I'd say. Cheers
Whenever I don't want to do my planned VO2 intervals, I do a Zwift race and call it a day. It's unstructured training but gets results. I've done intervals my whole life and agree they can become monotonous, especially through the winter when there are fewer group rides going out.
Yep. That’s a good substitute. 👊
I think isotonic drinks preferably with phenylalanine added in is critical for performance if youre doing intervals or riding hard you can get phenylalanine from food sources but i think supplementation hasnt been spoken about enough with regards to sports science
Where did the Tuesday and Thursday night Crits happen back then Chris? Fiesta island still goes down but I heard there was also a practice crit in Sorento valley?
I think it in large part comes down to semantics. When Chris says he never went easy, and then goes on to say he was riding at 200-220 watts, this would be straight up zone 2 training for most pros. Even somebody like me, not remotely close to pro level, or even good amateur level, recently finished last in my masters cat in a race, even I can do 220+ watts at least for over an hour, and strava would probably set me at 85% intensity then. But I like the philosophy of doing what you think is fun on the bike, not turning it into your job, especially when it is not your job. Fun is key to getting the work done !
I love to hear that intervals are unnessesary , even for a top-class pro. Myself I am less ambitious, I only ride for fun and fitness, fighting fatness and transporting. I never do intervals, but I do hard sections. When I went to work on friday, 17 km ride, 47 minutes i was going reasonably fast, maybe hard zone two with some harder efforts when I tried to folllow stronger riders, and from km 12,6 to 14,6 there is a climb where I gave it all, starting at treshold and hitting max pulse or three beats below max at ca 14 km. That hill is a 10 minute full effort and in my mind it is training that ok replaces intervals.
BOOYA!
BOOYA! 👊👊
Thanks Chris back in my late 20s I was going my best on the bike and was just racing on a Saturday with big miles in between lately I've been obsessed with intervals and not as good, maybe it's age but I'm going back to miles and races it's more fun😂
Hey Chris, I can understand where you're coming from. However, a commodity that a lot of us are lacking is Time. I only have about an hour or so after work to put work in, so intervals seem to be the most bang for your buck since I don't have immediate access to quality hills. I'm not sure who you're videos are geared towards but it would be helpful to clarify at the intro if you're speaking to kids in their 20s or weekend warrior types since I don't think this knowledge applies to all.
For what its worth. I personally went intervals free and racing myself into shape prior 25 yo. After that, I had to start doing intervals since, I guess, I needed to accumulate more time of intensity sollicitation. Interval training, because you allow recovery time between bits of effort allows you to spend more time at intensity than you would be able to if you were trying to hold that power to exhaustion. It did make me a faster rider. That said, everyone should do what they feel is good, but it is also good try everything outside of your actual training habits.
oh and I'm from Canada. Here we train indoor all winter. Intervals keeps you away from suicide
You don‘t need them, ya got that eagle power 🦅 flying over those Spanish roads..
Define the word is
Thank you
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@chrishornercycling it would be great if you could give some insight on controlled belly breathing on the bike, a lot of guys are hyperventilating.
My fast going up Palomar is sub 2 hrs.
Averaging 220 watts daily for 800-1000km per week during your normal training is amazing!
You still have to give to Vincenzo Nibali the Vuelta's amarillo shirt back.
hi Chris, you've been quite transparent about doping in cycling before. I am just curious if there were any doping substances the riders took to replace "interval training"? I heard team Sky riders were using a lot of salt in their races apparently needed from some recipe they used to neutralize the acid in the blood.
Swedish endurance athletes call efforts Fartleks. Swedish for speed play.
Intervals are more of a function of a power meter vs persevered effort.
I guess this it's a question very very personal. For me intervals always was very well.
Great video Chris! I remember you when I lived in San Diego and the rides your talking about as a weekend warrior master racer when I was in the San Diego Cylcovets! lol I have also ridden the palomar mountain climb on that route too from Rincon! Question: In your opinion, how do you think they would categorize the Palomar mountain climb if it were on a stage in the tour? How does it compare to some of the really big tour cat 1 and beyond climbs? Just curious! Thanks for all your great videos! Bob
Intervals are meant to somewhat simulate racing. Chase an attack, recover. Chase an attack, recover. Or just race!!!
I gained weight because of eating after the ride. I prefer fueling before 1-1.5 hour ride mid ride for longer ones.
Me too. I wouldn’t argue with no eating before training if it’s that early in the morning but certainly if the training was later in the day I would always prefer to eat before the ride and then less afterwards. 👊👊