I know. He's essentially telling the story of the death of a franchise/ sport, in Atlanta. I'm not saying it should be a full funeral but have some respect and please don't tell me if they do one of These on the Montreal EXPOS,. YES, it deserves to be made but get Dave Van Horne to Orate, or Dawson, Pedro! Anybody but the 'this Cocaine Drinking, Coffee Snorting, plus Helium inhaling, Panic Attack!!!
Atlanta should get another franchise. It's not the city's or the fans fault that Atlanta Spirit Group screwed up. If hockey can work in the Carolina, Tennessee and Florida it can definitely work in Atlanta.
Actually that 95-06 season I thought Atlanta was gonna make a strong push for the cup. Hossa ended up leaving though and they started falling back again.
Atlanta Flames failed - not because of Atlanta Spirit Atlanta Gladiators can't even fill their arena 50% - are they failing because of the Atlanta Spirit too???? That's why there are no hockey fans in Georgia BEFORE AND AFTER the Thrashers? Because of the Atlanta Spirit? Hahahahahahaha Google hockey registration in Georgia it is 40th out of 50 states.... (taking into account Canadian provinces Georgia is ranked 50th out of 60 states and provinces lol) Georgia hates hockey
@@sampicano flames were likely in Atlanta too early. The Braves and Hawks struggled to draw in the 70s, the Flames didn't stand a chance. But the infighting in the Thrasher's ownership group doomed the franchise.
@@kjorlaug1 70s and 80s it was too early 90s and 00s it was Atlanta Spirit and hockey registration in Georgia is 40th in America out of 50 states....and the Atlanta Gladiators can't even fill the arena 50% because what? What's your excuse? Atlanta Gladiators - 4,168 fans per game - London Knights - 9,035 per game - Halifax Mooseheads - 8,368 per game - Quebec Remparts - 9,840 per game - University North Dakota - 11,612 per game - University of Wisconsin - 10,059 per game - University of Nebraska-Omaha - 7,043 per game there are better markets in the South... ECHL Jacksonville averages - 8,768 per game AHL San Diego averages 7,249 real hockey markets exist, I don't think San Diego or Jacksonville are hockey markets but they are better markets than atlanta
THANK YOU for pointing out the real reasons. Nobody seems to acknowledge the fact that the Atlanta spirit sabotaged it. Going to my first NHL game since the last thrashers game in 2011 to see the stars vs avalanche game 4. I finally get to experience a playoff game
I don't want Atlanta as an NHL market, since there are better markets (Portland, Milwaukee, Houston, Toronto-Hamilton, Cleveland, Quebec City), and since they failed twice which is unheard of, and because as of 2024 Georgia ranks bottom 10 in North America for hockey registration...there is still no hockey fans. BUT I WOULD LOVE TO SEE ATLANTA FAIL A THIRD TIME THAT WOULD PUT THE NAIL IN THE COFFIN FOREVER, THEY WOULD NEVER EVER GET ANOTHER SHOT (AND THEY DON'T DESERVE ONE) - Phoenix just failed...5,070,110 people - Atlanta failed twice...6,307,261 people - Houston never failed...7,510,253 people Why not fail in Houston? At least Texas likes hockey more than Georgia, Houston has an NHL arena built, Houston would have an entertaining rivalry with Dallas, and Houston has a billionaire owner looking to buy the team (Tilman Fertitta), and is larger than Atlanta, and hasn't failed twice already (like Atlanta). Houston would be a terrible NHL market, but it would be better than Atlanta. I WOULD LOVE ATLANTA TO FAIL A THIRD TIME ❤
@@sampicano but how would a Quebec City team find players to field a team when no one wants to play there? lol - Want to know which teams are on almost all players "no trade" lists? ALL of the Canadian franchises. Why do you think the NHL won't go back to another Canadian market - it has NOTHING to do with the passion of the fans. It's also the High taxes players have to pay while living there. This is why we are seeing teams like Florida, Tampa, Vegas, and Dallas landing major stars via trade & free agency. Florida was #1 on Matthew Tkachuk's list. Vladimir Tarasenko said he would only waive his no-trade to go to Florida. People want to live in nice weather, pay no state income tax, and play on a championship-caliber team.
@@esotericveritasunfortunately you are right. I’m not even Canadian and I’ve only been there once briefly but the passion of the fans there is unmatched. The fans in Quebec City and possibly Hamilton or Saskatoon/Regina could support one but I’m not sure any free agents would want to go there. As you said, the existing Canadian franchises are struggling. There’s a reason the cup hasn’t been back to Canada since ‘93
@@esotericveritas The NHL teams that lost the most money over the past decade (2012-2021): -$152,900,000 = Florida Panthers (Miami - 6,183,199) -$141,600,000 = Arizona Coyotes (Phoenix - 4,845,832) -$108,800,000 = Carolina Hurricanes (Raleigh-Durham - 1,509,231) -$83,500,000 = Anaheim Ducks (Los Angeles-Anaheim - 12,799,100) -$76,000,000 = Columbus Blue Jackets (Columbus - 2,180,271) -$74,400,000 = Tampa Lightning (Tampa-Saint Petersburg - 3,342,963) -$59,900,000 = Buffalo Sabres (Buffalo - 1,155,604) -$130,000,000 = Atlanta Thrashers (Atlanta - 6,307,261) [Atlanta lost $130 million in 5 years from 2005 to 2010] So everybody wants to play in Miami and Atlanta and Anaheim and Phoenix? But none of those cities generates profit....and two of them had to relocate. One of them didn't make money (Atlanta) until they relocated to a city with 700 thousand Canadians LMFAO 🤣 Do you understand how NUMBERS work? Losing $130 million in Georgia is not more viable than making $5 million in Winnipeg.
Yeah- it was this merger more than anything that screwed the Thrashers- it only gets a passing mention in this video; it's complex but it boggled the minds of a lot of people at the time why anyone ( Time-Warner) would merge with AOL ( a dial-up internet company) at a time when people were already bailing in droves on AOL in favor of high-speed DSL and cable service. Other "suits" within the company were given control of Ted Turner's other assets (Falcons, Thrashers and WCW) and Turner scrambled to retain control of the Braves franchise (his prized possession). WCW was sold to Vince McMahon for a fraction of it's value in the fire sale.
@@johncorey7408 time Warner was buying the data AOL had collected. It's always been about data since the internet became a thing. That's an even bigger source of income than subscriber fees
@@johncorey7408 I think you mean, Hawks, not Falcons. Turner once owned the Hawks, not the Falcons. The Falcons have only had two owners since they came into the league in 1966. The Rankin Smith family, followed by Arthur Blank.
Dude fr, what players today play how him and ovi did back then? Those guys were electrifying, only guys that come close in terms of size, speed and lethal shot Is MacKinnon really, he's like the only comparison to those 2 guys and isnt quite as big
Ok. I don't want to be rude but buddy here has great energy as well as delivery. He needs to take his voice down an octave though. Something about it is just not working for me.
he sounds like he belongs on a live action show for children under 5 or he would be a actor in some education film ud see in 2nd grade about recycling and even than u were cringing
You're high if you don't think the NHL can't work in Atlanta. The attendance was never the problem. The OWNERSHIP was. Both times. Listen kids. Atlanta has a pop. of @ 6 mil people. The NHL WORKS in TAMPA AND NASHVILLE. You REALLY think it can't in Atlanta!? Get off the crack.
scott I agree with you the city of Atlanta needs another team as a rangers fan from Georgia I was a thrashers fan back in the day and the ownership sold us out in 2011 and that was when I became a rangers fan because the thrashers were gone to Winnipeg and I always hated the jets but yes we need another team in Atlanta I agree with you all the way and also I don’t do drugs or crack or get high LOL 😂
Hockey is bigger than I imagined in the Deep South. I moved to Alabama from California and was pleasantly surprised to find out the South has their own league; The Southern Professional Hockey League. Alabama has 2 teams, one being active since 2004.
@@MrJohansen what came first 5.074 million people in Alabama not building rinks, not playing hockey for the past 100 years..... or no opportunities....HAHAHAHAHA weird how every other state and province BUILT ARENAS BECAUSE THEY HAD FANS Alabama is the one state with no opportunities HAHAHAHAH more like....nobody wants to watch hockey in Alabama LITERALLY BOTTOM 5 HOCKEY MARKETS IN NORTH AMERICA
The Thrashers name also fit in with the other bird teams (Falcons, Hawks) *and* was a nod to one of Atlanta's founders, John Thrasher (although it was never an official name, early Atlanta was sometimes called Thrasherville: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Thrasher
@@tonyc8752 For a so-called "hockey historian," you certainly don't know very much. True historians never go on numbers alone, but that seems to be all you're interested in; you don't care about the why's and the how's. You can throw out numbers and percentages all you want, but the fact remains that you weren't here, and you have no clue.
@@iplayfhorn LOL. The Thrashers drew 17,000 their first year and were down to 13,000 by year 2!!! They were basically 4K under capacity most years of their existence. Atlanta didn't support the Thrashers, even in the early days. Not a hockey city. Frankly, kinda a lousy sports city in general.
Being a billionaire tells you everything you need to know about them. They hoard and collect money on the assumption that they'll be able to take it with them when they die. So when a franchise isn't lining their pockets as much as they thought, or they're having to spend anything more than a penny out of their own pocket to run it....they push it away like rich kids who just saw a new iPhone just came out. God forbid you spend anything to build a new arena.... Nah lets make the taxpayers pay for it. (which these billionaires arent, because their money goes into off-shore accounts so they can collect more of it) Or else they'll throw a fit when they refuse to build one themselves while dangling the franchise over that areas population. Billionaires arent the solution. Theyre the problem.
As a Manitoba Native... I feel your pain but I want you to know your team wasnt sold down the river to a middling fan base. We Salute the Thrashers and thank you for the opporunity to play in winnipeg again.
very well done video! someone who knows the Truth about the fate of Thrashers! it was very unfortunate when Atlanta Spirit took over and literally sabotaged the team. Now with the ownership groups interested in bringing the NHL back to Atlanta in Northern Suburbs, it will thrive up there wayyyy more than it ever did in downtown! While ownership was the main reason why 2 Atlanta NHL teams failed, I also think a big factor on why the NHL didn't work in Atlanta was that downtown was NOT a good location for Hockey. Downtown Atlanta is great for Hawks and Falcons, since most of those fans live in that area but with the Braves and Thrashers fans, a great majority of them live in the northern suburbs of Atlanta. Hence, that is why they moved the Braves stadium from downtown to The Battery in Symrna, GA and the attendance improved significantly prior to their World Series Win. this is the exact same approach the these ATL ownership groups are trying to do to bring NHL back. Building a brand new arena the Georgia's Largest Hockey Hub and if the ownership can put a good product on the ice, it will 100% work in Atlanta and will never relocate again. Now could they relocate again, if granted a franchise? Yes, just like any other sports team can if mismanaged
Get the Trashers back! I know there's talk of Atlanta getting a new team again, and I want to see the Trashers branding return. Such a unique name and branding, shame for it to go to waste
11:00 Every instance, the Aol-Time Warner acquisition is discussed, a WCW fan sheads a tiny tear and then swears, NON-STOP for the next 45 minutes!!! I've seen it...and I've done it. Cheers to WCW,
Before bashing Thrashers attendance too much, keep in mind the Thrashers drew more fans than the Hawks in every season until they were sold to Atlanta Spirt. Telling.
(EDIT: I re-read what you wrote: "until they sold to the Spirit." You are correct!) The Hawks outdrew the Thrashers in each of the Thrashers last four seasons. That said, the Flames vastly outdrew the Hawks most of the time. And if you averaged out the Thrashers 99-11 attendance vs the Hawks, the Thrashers probably come out ahead. The biggest problem the NHL has always had in Atlanta is owners and city officials that take the NBA more seriously. Hawks being bonded to the arena, the Thrashers not. The shared revenues of a NBA franchise outweighing that of a NHL franchise (therefore making sale for relocation more tempting). Plus, an additional factor that made owners lose interest in their NHL teams faster than the Hawks is that while the Hawks have had many lean attendance years, it's never stopped Atlanta from being a big television market for basketball. Whereas the television audience for the Thrashers in particular was always negligible. Arguably with the death of traditional television and diminished influence of the "Fox Sports South" model, the latter detail might not be as important anymore.
@@brycemcneil4404 I think you're spot on. And frankly, I think it's why the NHL should not sell their franchises to people who own another major sports franchise. In the case of Atlanta Spirit, clearly they saw the Thrashers as competition to the Hawks. So keep the Trashers down and then sell them for a tidy profit while now eliminating the competition is such a blatant conflict of interest. I fear we will see it in Salt Lake City now, too. The thing is- Atlanta is a good hockey market- much better than some of the markets Bettman has catered to. A regional hub beyond that of which Nashville or Raleigh could ever be, but also they've drawn good numbers for the Gwinnett Gladiators. Georgia Tech's club team is usually very good. There's lots of interest from fans. Get good management- for a chance- and Atlanta will be one of the sports top markets.
@@Gnashadelphia I do. I think the NHL will go back into Atlanta and Phoenix, also add Houston, and finally go back to Quebec..I don't think they can overlook Canada again if they go to 36 teams
@@kjorlaug1 if the NHL cares about TV ratings they'll go to Phoenix,Atlanta, and Houston. I'm seriously....how does a league like the NHL with their built-in TV handicaps ignore/screw up those 3 big markets? They should move Carolina to Atlanta. Raleigh is worthless for the NHL.
The Thrashers certainly had the pieces, but could never complete the puzzle. Hossa and Dupuis were able to jump straight into Pittsburgh and challenge for the Stanley Cup after the trade in 2008. Same when Kovalchuk went, New Jersey made the finals two years later. Still got my Thrashers jerseys, and wear them with pride.
One very important thing to note about the Atlanta Spirit fiasco- Steve Belkin, the owner pushed out by the Joe Johnson Hawks move wasn't simply one of the members in the ownership group- he was the main single investor and by himself individually represented one third of the initial investment (the original conglomerate consisted of three different regionalized sub-groups/factions- Belkin by himself as the Boston faction, a Washington DC based group led by Bruce Levenson and a local Atlanta group led by Michael Gearon along with Ted Turner's son-in-law). Again, Belkin was the original main money man so his being pushed out significantly hampered the group's ability to actually operate two franchises even if they had wanted to.
@@michaelleroy9281 Imagine how far the Thrashers would have gone with Heatley and Kovalchuk. The Thrashers would have likely won a Stanley Cup by now and they would still be in Atlanta to this day. That was all shattered because Heatley was driving too fast.
@@sampicano you’d be absolutely fucking wrong. Fun fact, the Thrashers outdrew Chicago and Boston 3 out of 5 years before the owner started suing themselves in regards to Joe Johnson and the Hawks that’s why the Thrashers failed. Your logic is that the more southern latitude someone goes the person loses their ability to view a puck. Maybe take a look into what happened to the Atlanta Spirit group before popping off in the comment section.
2:20 It was also one of the filming locations for a early 80's movie called, 'The Visitor', A movie with Lance Henrickson, John Huston, Shelly Winters, Franco Nero, the guy who played Jango, not to be Confussed with the poor homage, Jango Fett. Glenn Ford is in there and makes it just as far as he did in Superman. The Movie is about a Little girl, who is filled with the Devil and is the Daughter of the Owner of The Atlanta Basketball team. So there's some jabs at Wrastlin' Ted, in the movie. And this is the first 5 minutes or so!!! You must see this movie at least once!! You will be the Star of all parties, while you recount this insane Italian/American Spaghetti-Devil-War. It makes The first two Exorcist films look like Sesame street :)
I went to multiple Thrashers games in the 2000s. People went to the games. Just like other Turner owned stuff, once he was ousted things went downhill. Also not sure if anyone ever noticed but I am sure their logo was inspired by the Warner Bros logo.
i still miss my thrashers! i was a diehard fan! i would do anywhere between 30-35 home games a year! i actually was considered one of their SUPERFANS: CAPTAIN SIGNAGE or SIGN GUY! it hurt to see ATL SPIRIT ownership group ruin the team! there's a group, now, led by anson carter thats lobbying for another franchise to be located in alpharetta!
@@codylegare4649 kinda well deserved for Arizona....out of 124 professional sports teams in North America...Coyotes were the lowest valued team.... good for the NHL, trim the fat
@@kingmo8789 in 28 years the Coyotes were a NET LOSS team And the NHL is a revenue sharing league... So in 28 years...the Coyotes had to be PROPPED up and supported by getting hand outs from ACTUAL succesful teams
@@sampicano because of their owners are a disaster. Alex Murelo was the coup de grace of that franchise. Having new arena proposal full of empty promises, burning the bridge of their fanbase and community, getting the team kicked out of Glendale for not paying the bills on time.
Neither of which had anything to do with fan support. IN EIGHT SEASONS (8), the Atlanta Flames: -Had higher attendance than the Pittsburgh Penguins 6 seasons. -Had higher attendance than the Chicago Blackhawks 6 seasons. -Had higher attendance than the Detroit Redwings 4 seasons. -Had higher attendance than the Los Angeles Kings4 seasons. In ELEVEN SEASONS (11), the Atlanta Thrashers: -Had higher attendance than the Phoenix Coyotes 8 seasons. -Had higher attendance than the New York Islanders 8 seasons. -Had higher attendance than the New Jersey Devils 5 seasons. -Had higher attendance than the Anaheim Mighty Ducks 5 seasons. -Had higher attendance than the Washington Capitals 5 seasons. -Had higher attendance than the Nashville Predators 6 seasons. -Had higher attendance than Chicago Blackhawks 5 seasons. There are currently three ownership groups who have plans to bring the NHL back to Atlanta. Three. It's going to happen.
ATLANTA THRASHERS ATTENDACES: - The Atlanta Thrashers and Flames attendances were BAD....do not let anyone lie to you and tell you otherwise 2011 - 28th/30 teams in NHL attendance (13,469) 2010 - 28th/30 teams in NHL attendance (13,607) 2009 - 29th/30 teams in NHL attendance (14,626) 2008 - 22nd/30 teams in NHL attendance (15,831) 2007 - 21st/30 teams in NHL attendance (16,240) - the inaugural season (1999) was the best attended season for Atlanta - it is NEVER a good sign when your first year is the most successful -the attendance just dropped off after that - 2007 was the Thrashers SECOND best season ever in attendance with a truly pathetic 16,240....(only good enough for 21st in the NHL that year) - 2007 was also Atlanta's most successful year in the league losing in the Eastern Conference Quarter Finals - Atlanta Thrashers second BEST was only good enough for 21st in the NHL in 2007 - IMAGINE being in a race, and you're finishing 29/30, 28/30, 22/30, 21st place out of 30 runners is considered good in your mind???? Atlanta was a complete joke. The attendances were truly pathetic. 2011 - 28th/30 teams in NHL attendance 2010 - 28th/30 teams in NHL attendance 2009 - 29th/30 teams in NHL attendance 2008 - 22nd/30 teams in NHL attendance 2007 - 21st/30 teams in NHL attendance - Atlanta Thrashers second BEST attended season (16,240) would be 26th in today's NHL
7:06 The topic is interesting, but i couldn't make it any further. I feel terrible saying, but also respectfully, It's too uncomfortable and irritating to listen to.
That's why everyone was happy when they were eliminated by Dallas. Sadly, they'll do this again when the Coyotes return and get Auston Matthews and rig the expansion draft so that Arizona can buy a Stanley Cup just like Vegas.
Well, when the team returns in the 2027-2029 time frame, which seems to be the plan, they won't be playing in the City of Atlanta, most likely, but rather a suburban area with competent leadership and access to the fan base. Think of the Braves success since they moved to the suburbs.
The NHL teams that lost the most money over the past decade (2012-2021): -$152,900,000 = Florida Panthers (Miami - 6,183,199) -$141,600,000 = Arizona Coyotes (Phoenix - 4,845,832) -$108,800,000 = Carolina Hurricanes (Raleigh-Durham - 1,509,231) -$83,500,000 = Anaheim Ducks (Los Angeles-Anaheim - 12,799,100) -$76,000,000 = Columbus Blue Jackets (Columbus - 2,180,271) -$74,400,000 = Tampa Lightning (Tampa-Saint Petersburg - 3,342,963) -$59,900,000 = Buffalo Sabres (Buffalo - 1,155,604) -$130,000,000 = Atlanta Thrashers (Atlanta - 6,307,261) [Atlanta lost $130 million in 5 years from 2005 to 2010] +$4,900,000 = Winnipeg Jets (Winnipeg - 758,515) +$50,900,000 = Ottawa Senators (Ottawa - 1,017,449) So Ottawa generated $50.9 million.... 1 million Canadians using Canadian currency generated 50.9 million dollars 6.1 million Americans in Miami lost 152 million dollars 4.8 million Americans in Phoenix lost 141 million dollars 12.9 million Americans in Anaheim lost 76 million dollars 3.3 million Americans in Tampa lost 74 million dollars 5.2 million Americans in Atlanta lost 130 million dollars 830,000 Canadians in Winnipeg generated 5 million dollars How insanely stupid would you have to be to just want to lose money in Miami, Anaheim, Atlanta, Phoenix, Columbus, Tampa....instead of making money in Edmonton, Ottawa, Winnipeg. I hope Atlanta sets RECORDS FOR MONEY LOST. I hope we can relocate them forever, and we never have to hear another lie about Atlanta hockey ever again. You don't even have an AHL team...Atlanta is SUCH A GOOD HOCKEY MARKET....but lost 2 NHL teams and DOESN'T EVEN HAVE AN AMERICAN HOCKEY LEAGUE TEAM! HAHAHAHA Hershey Pennsylvania is a better hockey market
I would say the Thrashers actually maintained good attendance numbers considering they were a losing team nearly every year. You can see the rise in attendance during the few years they were playoff relevant. If the ownership group had actually cared enough to have a winning team then hockey would have done well in Atlanta. Youth hockey in Georgia back when it had the Thrashers was much healthier than it has been without them. We had YMCA Youth Hockey in South Georgia of all place during those years. It stopped around 10 years ago though. Interest in the sport just fell off a cliff once the Thrashers left. There are bright spots in the state of Georgia for hockey today. Savannah got an ECHL team 2 years ago and it's hard to get tickets for those games. Athens, GA will have a team in the FPHL for the 2024-2025 season. Macon, GA has had a team in the SPHL for nearly 10 years now. I would say the sport is primed to take off in Georgia, and bringing in an NHL team will be that shot of fuel it needs.
7:09 Looking at that collection of unsupported teams, the only surprise seems to be the Islanders. The rest are not exactly in areas where the native barbarians know anything about hockey other than the fights.
This video still doesn’t adequately acknowledge one of the biggest reasons the thrashers struggled with attendance: arena location. It’s in downtown Atlanta, where NO ONE with money lives. Atlanta is a commuter city with terrible public transit, so putting the stadium there was practically begging for them to struggle with attendance, especially on weeknights.
Very true. Downtown works for the Falcons because it’s only 8 times a year mostly on Sundays. The Hawks work because of basketball broader appeal. The Braves figured this out and built a new stadium in the burbs. The right owner with the right arena location and with the better expansion draft rules Atlanta can succeed in the NHL
it didn't matter where you put the team since Georgia doesn't support hockey...compared to every other state and province that's the problem, that's why small cities in Canada do better that's why Buffalo and Pittsburgh did better...it's because those re BETTER HOCKEY MARKETS
@@sampicano that isn’t true. There are plenty of hockey fans in Georgia and Arizona but it has to be easily accessible to them. If you look at what I wrote above, people did not like going to Braves games during the weekday because of the traffic getting from the suburbs to downtown Atlanta. So the Braves left a stadium that wasn’t even 20 years old and built one in the suburbs closer to where the fans were coming from. The panthers did the same when they moved out of downtown Miami because most of the hockey fans in south Florida live around Fort Lauderdale. Most of the affluent population live well outside the interstate perimeter to the west and north and just aren’t going to go to weekly games during the week if it means getting home well after 11pm. That’s why there a push to get an arena built in the suburbs in hopes get another expansion team and the league will give them one before any other city in Canada.
I will say, probably the best part about that franchise was their jerseys. Those are one of the bests jerseys I’ve ever seen in sports. If they come back I hope they re-adopt those jerseys and logos and team name. So good, but not so much on the ice.
I used to love watching these guys. Kovalchuk and Hossa were a sight to behold. If they got here today they’d be a success, the city is primed and ready to burst.
"Waddell is a quality GM in Carolina" Gone within three weeks of you saying that. That is insane coincidence. You couldn't have been more wrong. Waddell is a quality GM in Carolina...fired 20 days later. Imagine. How do you see the world? What a GREAT GM-fired the next day lmfao
Didn't help that the demographic that would've gone to games, attendance being a major part of team revenue, lived away from downtown Atlanta. Among other issues with the city, there is a reason the Braves left Atlanta too and the Falcons Arthur had to be bribed to keep the his team in that area. The 2008 recession was the final straw Notice where the potential third team would be located, in the suburbs an hour North of downtown Atlanta
@@tonyc8752 The makeup of downtown Atlanta is different than several North American cities, or at least it certainly was at the time. Some cities are extremely densely populated in the center (ironically enough, Winnipeg is the ultimate example, as the most recent study on urban density ranked Winnipeg *7th* in North America despite having less than 800,000 in the entire metro area). Atlanta, conversely, is among the more sprawled out metro areas--- There are *literally* 70 incorporated cities that make up metro Atlanta. And quite frankly, the *actual city* of Atlanta was probably one of the least populated with hockey fans of those 70 at the time (and might well still be now). Saying "it's a sad excuse for a pathetic city" is no different than saying Ottawa is a "sad excuse for a pathetic city" for the Sens' attendance problems for *not* playing downtown. Arena location is a key part of any smartly run franchise's strategy. And believe me, I love the city of Atlanta proper. No one more than me would love to say "it would work better downtown than OTP." But that's just not true.
@@tonyc8752 downtown population = black people They don't watch hockey. They watch basketball and football It's not a "sad excuse", it's just demographics.
NOTHING sums up NHL incompetence in regards to growing the fanbase like trading in a big rich market like Atlanta for a small poor market like Winnipeg.
the problem with people like you is that you're willing to relocate Canadian teams to "untapped markets" when hockey is never going to even come close to touching football, basketball or even baseball in general US sports culture. that's why us Canadian fans are upset with Bettman's (and the owners) insistent push to expand the league to markets LIKE Atlanta. how is the NHL going to survive in a non-hockey market with FOUR other major teams within the same market? THAT screams incompetence, not moving teams to Winnipeg where they're all but guaranteed to be the biggest money maker in town
@@Helvigster and the problem with people like you is that you don't realize that the BIG money is made in the top American Media Markets, not in small town Canada. You have any idea how many people live in a 100 mile radius of Atlanta? Or how much corporate presence is there? The Atlanta market can support all 5 sports teams easy. Not even a question. You are lucky that the NHL is this inept to begin with, otherwise Winnipeg would only have a Double-A hockey right now. That being said they will always be under the threat of relocation. And LOL at calling the Jets "guaranteed to be the biggest money maker in town"; How much are the Jets worth again compared to the other 31 teams? Check the Forbes list.
@@geoff3103 look friend, I won't deny that just in general, there's way more money to be made in the US compared to up here, partly because Americans just consume, consume, consume, and also because they have a way higher population. the NHL's problem is that they really messed up by pulling the plug on the Thrashers too early. since they left, an MLS team got awarded to Atlanta. isn't Atlanta's MLS team one of the most popular in the league now? and the fan support from what I could gather is actually really good. THAT could've been the Thrashers. the problem is that I fear it's too late. I get Atlanta has a high suburban population, but is the NHL really going to be able to compete with the NBA, NFL, MLB and now the MLS in a non-traditional hockey market? a new Atlanta team would have to have Vegas-like success early if they want to build a solid foundation. but anyway, I'm just tired of people like you, as disrespectful as it sounds. if the NHL did things your way, Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver would be the only teams remaining north of the border and I, as well as lots of other people, would rightfully hate that. we're losing our own game to Americans for the sake of more money and it really sucks. let us be angry alright?
@@Helvigster naw, Alberta would still have NHL teams. PLENTY of people and money in that province, they ain't leaving unless their owners have SERIOUS financial problems, but i doubt that. Only team up there in danger is Winnipeg. Everyone else is safe. And Atlanta is big and rich enough to support NHL hockey. heck, if their 1st owner back in 1980 wasn't in the construction business or a business that got a hammered by high interest rates and energy costs Atlanta would still have the Flames. Calgary would also have a team too.
@@geoff3103 fair enough, I just get all flustered and worried is all. I'm kind of with you in regards to the NHL's sheer incompetence, they should really decide whether or not they're willing to drag dead weight in Winnipeg and Ottawa with them, or if they really want to go all in on trying to establish the game in the US. I think Atlanta would be fantastic for the NHL if they can find the right owners to lead them. again, I genuinely believe that all the fan success with Atlanta's MLS team could've been the Thrashers if they weren't so horribly ran by Atlanta Spirit. but if the new owners can right the previous wrong, all for it.
Atlanta Spirit was just the same as Jerry Buss. Atlanta Spirit owned the Thrashers as a tax write-off for the Hawks. Jerry Buss owned the Kings as a tax write-off for the Lakers. That's why both teams floundered.
I hope the NHL tries one more time and puts another team in Atlanta. Since they keep relocating to Canadian cities, this would probably be the only way Quebec City will ever get a team again.
So did the NHL see how bad the way teams could protect teams from losing players to expansion teams and change the rules which helped Vegas do what they have so far? I'm new to hockey and never knew the ins and outs for new teams. Also why would hockey in Georgia be scary with teams in cali, Texas and Florida seeming to sustain?
- Georgia was ranked 40th out of 50 states in overall hockey registration in 2022 - Georgia was ranked 46th out of 50 states in hockey registration per capita in 2022 - Hockey registration in Georgia was 0% in 1970. - Hockey registration in Georgia was 0.02% in 2022. - In 104 years it would be 0.04% growth rate… 52 years = 0.02% growth 26 years = 0.01% growth That would be like having 100 people play hockey, and in 26 years you only have 101 people playing…. Fun fact: Florida, California, Texas...ALL HAVE MUCH MUCH MUCH MUC better hockey enrollment....Georgia is 46th out of 50 states.... hawaii has worse registration....alabama, lousiana, new mexico, arkansas.....like....that's it...Georgia is literally on a BOTTOM 5 list for hockey registration. It is a GARBAGE HOCKEY MARKET....Prince Edward Island....in Canada has more hockey players....and only 150 thousand people. Georgia has over 11 million people but has less hockey players than PEI.....wow..... #NeverAtlanta #NevaATL
@sampicano that's wild. I didn't know they had stats like that. Makes sense. As I think about it, kind of not surprised chocolate city wouldn't be a hockey hub🤣🤣.
@@MagaKoz Atlanta is not a chocolate city. That is a media hyped concoction. Even the actual city proper doesn't have a black majority. The suburbs an even smaller percentage and there are millions of white people in the suburbs. Youth hockey participation does not equate to interest in the sport.
They needed to join the NHL the same year as Nashville. Because they didn't they ended up picking a flop like Stefan in a terrible 1999 draft and had a stock of players that was even weaker than what the Predators chose from.
I liked the thrashers name and logo when they joined league in 99', i was 12 years old, too bad team was never really any good!? Atlanta has tried to have an NHL team twice now and failed miserably both times!!?? And Atlanta has been thrown around recently in talks of possoble future expansion cities but really they should be bottom of any list for future expansion cities imo!? Im sure most fans would rather see Qubec get a 2nd shot at a team b4 Atlanta gets a 3rd shot at it!!?? Quebec might not be a big market like atlanta but at least hockey is popular in Quebec!? And im sure most serious hockey fans would rather see Quebec get another team way b4 Atlanta!? In reality Houston will probably be next city to get an NHL team? But after that id love to see Quebec and Hartford get franchises again!? Quebec and Hartford could just bring back the Nordiques and Whalers names and logos and be good to go!? The Nordiques and Whalers logos r so simple yet they're awesome and iconic logos!!??
Since Atlanta stole Marquis Grissom from the Montreal Expos and were part of their decline and disappearance, I don't feel sorry for Atlanta losing their NHL teams, twice. If Montreal is just supposedly a hockey city, then Atlanta is just a baseball city. Atlanta can have their 3rd NHL team. It'll end of in Quebec City eventually.
Stop giving this guy energy drinks and helium before filming. 🤣
hard to listen to
He’s the worst
Fr can't stand him
I can't take him seriously lol
I know. He's essentially telling the story of the death of a franchise/ sport, in Atlanta.
I'm not saying it should be
a full funeral but have some respect and please don't tell me if they do one of These on the Montreal EXPOS,. YES, it deserves to be made but get Dave Van Horne to Orate, or Dawson, Pedro!
Anybody but the 'this Cocaine Drinking, Coffee Snorting, plus Helium inhaling, Panic Attack!!!
Why does this guy talk like he’s announcing cartoons on Nickelodeon
are u saying this isn't as important as cartoons
Maybe that's why I like him 😅
Why are you yelling at us? We hear you bro
Atlanta should get another franchise. It's not the city's or the fans fault that Atlanta Spirit Group screwed up. If hockey can work in the Carolina, Tennessee and Florida it can definitely work in Atlanta.
For Real.
So far it hasn't , only 8 years for the Flames 11 years for the Thrashers
Actually that 95-06 season I thought Atlanta was gonna make a strong push for the cup. Hossa ended up leaving though and they started falling back again.
Rumors are Atlanta will get another team if the NHL expands
@michaelleroy9281 Are lacking some brain cells, or did you not watch the video?
Atlanta Spirit will go down as one of the worst ownership groups in NHL, and pro sports history.
Atlanta Flames failed - not because of Atlanta Spirit
Atlanta Gladiators can't even fill their arena 50% - are they failing because of the Atlanta Spirit too????
That's why there are no hockey fans in Georgia BEFORE AND AFTER the Thrashers? Because of the Atlanta Spirit? Hahahahahahaha
Google hockey registration in Georgia it is 40th out of 50 states....
(taking into account Canadian provinces Georgia is ranked 50th out of 60 states and provinces lol)
Georgia hates hockey
@@sampicano flames were likely in Atlanta too early. The Braves and Hawks struggled to draw in the 70s, the Flames didn't stand a chance. But the infighting in the Thrasher's ownership group doomed the franchise.
@@kjorlaug1 70s and 80s it was too early
90s and 00s it was Atlanta Spirit
and hockey registration in Georgia is 40th in America out of 50 states....and the Atlanta Gladiators can't even fill the arena 50% because what? What's your excuse?
Atlanta Gladiators - 4,168 fans per game
- London Knights - 9,035 per game
- Halifax Mooseheads - 8,368 per game
- Quebec Remparts - 9,840 per game
- University North Dakota - 11,612 per game
- University of Wisconsin - 10,059 per game
- University of Nebraska-Omaha - 7,043 per game
there are better markets in the South...
ECHL Jacksonville averages - 8,768 per game
AHL San Diego averages 7,249
real hockey markets exist, I don't think San Diego or Jacksonville are hockey markets but they are better markets than atlanta
@@kjorlaug1 Don't argue with him. This idiot goes on every 'Why The Thrashers Failed' video and posts the same bullshit
@@sampicano How's hockey registration for Clark County, Nevada? Tampa?
THANK YOU for pointing out the real reasons. Nobody seems to acknowledge the fact that the Atlanta spirit sabotaged it. Going to my first NHL game since the last thrashers game in 2011 to see the stars vs avalanche game 4. I finally get to experience a playoff game
They'll be back before the end of the decade, in my opinion, if all goes according to plan.
I don't want Atlanta as an NHL market, since there are better markets (Portland, Milwaukee, Houston, Toronto-Hamilton, Cleveland, Quebec City), and since they failed twice which is unheard of, and because as of 2024 Georgia ranks bottom 10 in North America for hockey registration...there is still no hockey fans.
BUT I WOULD LOVE TO SEE ATLANTA FAIL A THIRD TIME
THAT WOULD PUT THE NAIL IN THE COFFIN FOREVER, THEY WOULD NEVER EVER GET ANOTHER SHOT (AND THEY DON'T DESERVE ONE)
- Phoenix just failed...5,070,110 people
- Atlanta failed twice...6,307,261 people
- Houston never failed...7,510,253 people
Why not fail in Houston? At least Texas likes hockey more than Georgia, Houston has an NHL arena built, Houston would have an entertaining rivalry with Dallas, and Houston has a billionaire owner looking to buy the team (Tilman Fertitta), and is larger than Atlanta, and hasn't failed twice already (like Atlanta).
Houston would be a terrible NHL market, but it would be better than Atlanta.
I WOULD LOVE ATLANTA TO FAIL A THIRD TIME ❤
@@sampicano but how would a Quebec City team find players to field a team when no one wants to play there? lol - Want to know which teams are on almost all players "no trade" lists? ALL of the Canadian franchises. Why do you think the NHL won't go back to another Canadian market - it has NOTHING to do with the passion of the fans. It's also the High taxes players have to pay while living there. This is why we are seeing teams like Florida, Tampa, Vegas, and Dallas landing major stars via trade & free agency. Florida was #1 on Matthew Tkachuk's list. Vladimir Tarasenko said he would only waive his no-trade to go to Florida. People want to live in nice weather, pay no state income tax, and play on a championship-caliber team.
@@esotericveritasunfortunately you are right. I’m not even Canadian and I’ve only been there once briefly but the passion of the fans there is unmatched. The fans in Quebec City and possibly Hamilton or Saskatoon/Regina could support one but I’m not sure any free agents would want to go there. As you said, the existing Canadian franchises are struggling. There’s a reason the cup hasn’t been back to Canada since ‘93
@@esotericveritas
The NHL teams that lost the most money over the past decade (2012-2021):
-$152,900,000 = Florida Panthers (Miami - 6,183,199)
-$141,600,000 = Arizona Coyotes (Phoenix - 4,845,832)
-$108,800,000 = Carolina Hurricanes (Raleigh-Durham - 1,509,231)
-$83,500,000 = Anaheim Ducks (Los Angeles-Anaheim - 12,799,100)
-$76,000,000 = Columbus Blue Jackets (Columbus - 2,180,271)
-$74,400,000 = Tampa Lightning (Tampa-Saint Petersburg - 3,342,963)
-$59,900,000 = Buffalo Sabres (Buffalo - 1,155,604)
-$130,000,000 = Atlanta Thrashers (Atlanta - 6,307,261) [Atlanta lost $130 million in 5 years from 2005 to 2010]
So everybody wants to play in Miami and Atlanta and Anaheim and Phoenix?
But none of those cities generates profit....and two of them had to relocate.
One of them didn't make money (Atlanta) until they relocated to a city with 700 thousand Canadians LMFAO 🤣
Do you understand how NUMBERS work?
Losing $130 million in Georgia is not more viable than making $5 million in Winnipeg.
AOL Time Warner merger also killed WCW wrestling
Yeah- it was this merger more than anything that screwed the Thrashers- it only gets a passing mention in this video; it's complex but it boggled the minds of a lot of people at the time why anyone ( Time-Warner) would merge with AOL ( a dial-up internet company) at a time when people were already bailing in droves on AOL in favor of high-speed DSL and cable service. Other "suits" within the company were given control of Ted Turner's other assets (Falcons, Thrashers and WCW) and Turner scrambled to retain control of the Braves franchise (his prized possession). WCW was sold to Vince McMahon for a fraction of it's value in the fire sale.
@@johncorey7408 time Warner was buying the data AOL had collected. It's always been about data since the internet became a thing. That's an even bigger source of income than subscriber fees
@@johncorey7408 I think you mean, Hawks, not Falcons. Turner once owned the Hawks, not the Falcons. The Falcons have only had two owners since they came into the league in 1966. The Rankin Smith family, followed by Arthur Blank.
WCW killed the WCW
@@RedPillBased Hogan and his nWo buddies killed WCW too. They refused to step aside for younger stars to emerge
Who knew SpongeBob knew so much about hockey?
This is a painful watch. Nothing personal, but the host's fake radio voice killed this video.
Kovalchuk was a beauty! Fast, strong and magic hands.
Dude fr, what players today play how him and ovi did back then? Those guys were electrifying, only guys that come close in terms of size, speed and lethal shot Is MacKinnon really, he's like the only comparison to those 2 guys and isnt quite as big
He was also one of the all time assholes out there.
@@Psychedelic-O-Moose Agreed
@@Psychedelic-O-Moose How? Genuinely interested.
Face of the franchise. Hopefully when the Thrashers return he can be the head coach or something.
I have been telling this story for years and no one believes it. Atlantans loved Hockey but ownership didn’t care.
Amen. Poor ownership ruined the Flames while negligent ownership killed the Thrashers...
Ok. I don't want to be rude but buddy here has great energy as well as delivery. He needs to take his voice down an octave though. Something about it is just not working for me.
Needs to be more tenor and right now it's too soprano
Yeah, it is forced and annoying.
I really have to second this, the delivery was great but I feel it should've gone down an octave during the more serious topics (Snyder for example)
Agree. I’ll have to thumb down the channel so I don’t get it suggested anymore.
he sounds like he belongs on a live action show for children under 5 or he would be a actor in some education film ud see in 2nd grade about recycling and even than u were cringing
You're high if you don't think the NHL can't work in Atlanta. The attendance was never the problem. The OWNERSHIP was. Both times. Listen kids. Atlanta has a pop. of @ 6 mil people. The NHL WORKS in TAMPA AND NASHVILLE. You REALLY think it can't in Atlanta!? Get off the crack.
scott I agree with you the city of Atlanta needs another team as a rangers fan from Georgia I was a thrashers fan back in the day and the ownership sold us out in 2011 and that was when I became a rangers fan because the thrashers were gone to Winnipeg and I always hated the jets but yes we need another team in Atlanta I agree with you all the way and also I don’t do drugs or crack or get high LOL 😂
Hockey is bigger than I imagined in the Deep South.
I moved to Alabama from California and was pleasantly surprised to find out the South has their own league; The Southern Professional Hockey League.
Alabama has 2 teams, one being active since 2004.
Alabama LITERALLY has some of the worst hockey registration in North America...
if Alabama "likes hockey" then every other state likes it more
@@sampicano you don't have to play hockey to be a fan of hockey
It has the least players because it has the least opportunities.
@@MrJohansen what came first 5.074 million people in Alabama not building rinks, not playing hockey for the past 100 years.....
or no opportunities....HAHAHAHAHA
weird how every other state and province BUILT ARENAS BECAUSE THEY HAD FANS
Alabama is the one state with no opportunities HAHAHAHAH
more like....nobody wants to watch hockey in Alabama
LITERALLY BOTTOM 5 HOCKEY MARKETS IN NORTH AMERICA
@@sampicano true but irrelevant
@@geoff3103
ir·rel·e·vant
adjective
- not connected with or relevant to something
WHY ARE YOU SO STUPID?
Love these deep dives, keep doing these
I dig this style of doc-especially with the new set!
This should be mandatory viewing for anyone who thinks ownership doesn't matter.
Hope the Thrashers return somehow. That logo was just awesome
If they return, the team will have another name, Thrashers failed
Thank you for posting the video.
Absolutely ELITE jerseys though. I really hope they come back as the Thrashers and have a modern take on those uniforms.
All the defunct teams have the *beat* unis imo
Luckily, the Thrashers' return is legitimately possible.
The Thrashers name also fit in with the other bird teams (Falcons, Hawks) *and* was a nod to one of Atlanta's founders, John Thrasher (although it was never an official name, early Atlanta was sometimes called Thrasherville: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Thrasher
The fans actually liked it, the problem was.... There was no winning and The dysfunction was obvious.
There were no fans
Waaaaay too obvious.
The fans are never the problem. Plain and simple.
@@tonyc8752 For a so-called "hockey historian," you certainly don't know very much. True historians never go on numbers alone, but that seems to be all you're interested in; you don't care about the why's and the how's. You can throw out numbers and percentages all you want, but the fact remains that you weren't here, and you have no clue.
@@iplayfhorn LOL. The Thrashers drew 17,000 their first year and were down to 13,000 by year 2!!! They were basically 4K under capacity most years of their existence. Atlanta didn't support the Thrashers, even in the early days. Not a hockey city. Frankly, kinda a lousy sports city in general.
“We have a billionaire owner! Everything is fine now”
- Thrashers
“We have a billionaire owner! Everything is fine now”
- Coyotes
Being a billionaire tells you everything you need to know about them. They hoard and collect money on the assumption that they'll be able to take it with them when they die. So when a franchise isn't lining their pockets as much as they thought, or they're having to spend anything more than a penny out of their own pocket to run it....they push it away like rich kids who just saw a new iPhone just came out. God forbid you spend anything to build a new arena.... Nah lets make the taxpayers pay for it. (which these billionaires arent, because their money goes into off-shore accounts so they can collect more of it) Or else they'll throw a fit when they refuse to build one themselves while dangling the franchise over that areas population. Billionaires arent the solution. Theyre the problem.
As a Manitoba Native... I feel your pain but I want you to know your team wasnt sold down the river to a middling fan base. We Salute the Thrashers and thank you for the opporunity to play in winnipeg again.
Fun fact: Ovechkin lost his tooth playing in Atlanta.
very well done video! someone who knows the Truth about the fate of Thrashers!
it was very unfortunate when Atlanta Spirit took over and literally sabotaged the team.
Now with the ownership groups interested in bringing the NHL back to Atlanta in Northern Suburbs, it will thrive up there wayyyy more than it ever did in downtown! While ownership was the main reason why 2 Atlanta NHL teams failed, I also think a big factor on why the NHL didn't work in Atlanta was that downtown was NOT a good location for Hockey. Downtown Atlanta is great for Hawks and Falcons, since most of those fans live in that area but with the Braves and Thrashers fans, a great majority of them live in the northern suburbs of Atlanta.
Hence, that is why they moved the Braves stadium from downtown to The Battery in Symrna, GA and the attendance improved significantly prior to their World Series Win. this is the exact same approach the these ATL ownership groups are trying to do to bring NHL back. Building a brand new arena the Georgia's Largest Hockey Hub and if the ownership can put a good product on the ice, it will 100% work in Atlanta and will never relocate again.
Now could they relocate again, if granted a franchise? Yes, just like any other sports team can if mismanaged
Get the Trashers back! I know there's talk of Atlanta getting a new team again, and I want to see the Trashers branding return. Such a unique name and branding, shame for it to go to waste
Thankfully we are doing everything to get another franchise down here. 2 arenas going up!
11:00
Every instance, the Aol-Time Warner acquisition is discussed, a WCW fan sheads a tiny tear and then swears, NON-STOP
for the next 45 minutes!!!
I've seen it...and I've done it. Cheers to WCW,
Before bashing Thrashers attendance too much, keep in mind the Thrashers drew more fans than the Hawks in every season until they were sold to Atlanta Spirt. Telling.
(EDIT: I re-read what you wrote: "until they sold to the Spirit." You are correct!) The Hawks outdrew the Thrashers in each of the Thrashers last four seasons.
That said, the Flames vastly outdrew the Hawks most of the time. And if you averaged out the Thrashers 99-11 attendance vs the Hawks, the Thrashers probably come out ahead.
The biggest problem the NHL has always had in Atlanta is owners and city officials that take the NBA more seriously. Hawks being bonded to the arena, the Thrashers not. The shared revenues of a NBA franchise outweighing that of a NHL franchise (therefore making sale for relocation more tempting). Plus, an additional factor that made owners lose interest in their NHL teams faster than the Hawks is that while the Hawks have had many lean attendance years, it's never stopped Atlanta from being a big television market for basketball. Whereas the television audience for the Thrashers in particular was always negligible.
Arguably with the death of traditional television and diminished influence of the "Fox Sports South" model, the latter detail might not be as important anymore.
@@brycemcneil4404 I think you're spot on. And frankly, I think it's why the NHL should not sell their franchises to people who own another major sports franchise. In the case of Atlanta Spirit, clearly they saw the Thrashers as competition to the Hawks. So keep the Trashers down and then sell them for a tidy profit while now eliminating the competition is such a blatant conflict of interest. I fear we will see it in Salt Lake City now, too. The thing is- Atlanta is a good hockey market- much better than some of the markets Bettman has catered to. A regional hub beyond that of which Nashville or Raleigh could ever be, but also they've drawn good numbers for the Gwinnett Gladiators. Georgia Tech's club team is usually very good. There's lots of interest from fans. Get good management- for a chance- and Atlanta will be one of the sports top markets.
I’m sorry, but listening to this guy is a grating experience. Made it to 4:07 before tapping out.
I got 5:04😂
6:54 here!
I think most Atlanta fans, to this day, still blame Gary Bettman. He lied to our faces.
You think we’ll get another team soon?
@@Gnashadelphia I do. I think the NHL will go back into Atlanta and Phoenix, also add Houston, and finally go back to Quebec..I don't think they can overlook Canada again if they go to 36 teams
@@kjorlaug1 if the NHL cares about TV ratings they'll go to Phoenix,Atlanta, and Houston. I'm seriously....how does a league like the NHL with their built-in TV handicaps ignore/screw up those 3 big markets? They should move Carolina to Atlanta. Raleigh is worthless for the NHL.
Oh, as long as Gary Bettman is alive, he'll find a way. Who saw Salt Lake City getting a team coming?
No we blame Atlanta Spirit.
The Thrashers certainly had the pieces, but could never complete the puzzle. Hossa and Dupuis were able to jump straight into Pittsburgh and challenge for the Stanley Cup after the trade in 2008. Same when Kovalchuk went, New Jersey made the finals two years later.
Still got my Thrashers jerseys, and wear them with pride.
One very important thing to note about the Atlanta Spirit fiasco- Steve Belkin, the owner pushed out by the Joe Johnson Hawks move wasn't simply one of the members in the ownership group- he was the main single investor and by himself individually represented one third of the initial investment (the original conglomerate consisted of three different regionalized sub-groups/factions- Belkin by himself as the Boston faction, a Washington DC based group led by Bruce Levenson and a local Atlanta group led by Michael Gearon along with Ted Turner's son-in-law). Again, Belkin was the original main money man so his being pushed out significantly hampered the group's ability to actually operate two franchises even if they had wanted to.
Thrashers fans at that point were nothing more than alimony payments because of Joe Johnson.
This is W content. Well done.
Bro hit a line before this video and was like yea tight tight that’s what I’m talkin about baby
Heatley’s accident was the beginning of the end for the Thrashers in Atlanta.
It wasn’t a cause so let’s take that right out of the conversation
In Minnesota Bill Masterton died of on an on ice injury that wasn't the cause of the North Stars leaving town
@@michaelleroy9281 Imagine how far the Thrashers would have gone with Heatley and Kovalchuk. The Thrashers would have likely won a Stanley Cup by now and they would still be in Atlanta to this day. That was all shattered because Heatley was driving too fast.
it was the lack of hockey fans in Georgia
@@sampicano you’d be absolutely fucking wrong. Fun fact, the Thrashers outdrew Chicago and Boston 3 out of 5 years before the owner started suing themselves in regards to Joe Johnson and the Hawks that’s why the Thrashers failed.
Your logic is that the more southern latitude someone goes the person loses their ability to view a puck. Maybe take a look into what happened to the Atlanta Spirit group before popping off in the comment section.
14:02 because Bruce Levenson told STH’s to “deal with it” when it came to raising ticket prices despite having a poor product
TheScore has a set now 😮
I'm old enough to remember when that was all it had.
2:20
It was also one of the filming locations for a early 80's movie called, 'The Visitor',
A movie with Lance Henrickson, John Huston, Shelly Winters, Franco Nero, the guy who played Jango, not to be Confussed with the poor homage, Jango Fett. Glenn Ford is in there and makes it just as far as he did in Superman.
The Movie is about a Little girl, who is filled with the Devil and is the Daughter of the Owner of The Atlanta Basketball team. So there's some jabs at Wrastlin' Ted, in the movie. And this is the first 5 minutes or so!!!
You must see this movie at least once!! You will be the Star of all parties, while you recount this insane Italian/American
Spaghetti-Devil-War. It makes The first two Exorcist films look like Sesame street :)
Dude sounds like Charlie Day 😂
I went to multiple Thrashers games in the 2000s. People went to the games. Just like other Turner owned stuff, once he was ousted things went downhill.
Also not sure if anyone ever noticed but I am sure their logo was inspired by the Warner Bros logo.
I was a huge thrashers fan and the attendance wasn't that bad.
i still miss my thrashers! i was a diehard fan! i would do anywhere between 30-35 home games a year! i actually was considered one of their SUPERFANS: CAPTAIN SIGNAGE or SIGN GUY! it hurt to see ATL SPIRIT ownership group ruin the team! there's a group, now, led by anson carter thats lobbying for another franchise to be located in alpharetta!
I have a feeling Atlanta will get a NHL team back in 2028
No city deserves a team less than Atlanta
@@tonyc8752 Okay, we all know you don't like Atlanta. Thanks for playing.
And I expect if that happens then in 12 years or so they will be relocated to Saskatoon !
@@XxxXxx-fm3wo or with stable ownership it can work
I think 2027.
Winnipeg loses Jets to Arizona, then gains it back, buying the Thrashers....now Arizona loses the Coyotes to Salt Lake City....
Kinda sucks for Arizona
@@codylegare4649 kinda well deserved for Arizona....out of 124 professional sports teams in North America...Coyotes were the lowest valued team....
good for the NHL, trim the fat
@@sampicanodue to their incompetent ownership and mismanagement. I would love to have the Coyotes back in with stable ownership
@@kingmo8789 in 28 years the Coyotes were a NET LOSS team
And the NHL is a revenue sharing league...
So in 28 years...the Coyotes had to be PROPPED up and supported by getting hand outs from ACTUAL succesful teams
@@sampicano because of their owners are a disaster. Alex Murelo was the coup de grace of that franchise. Having new arena proposal full of empty promises, burning the bridge of their fanbase and community, getting the team kicked out of Glendale for not paying the bills on time.
When your nickname can be reduced to trashers, it's not a good look.
I don’t think the city of Atlanta is ever going to get a hockey team again considering the fact that they lost two NHL teams to Canadian cities.
Neither of which had anything to do with fan support.
IN EIGHT SEASONS (8), the Atlanta Flames:
-Had higher attendance than the Pittsburgh Penguins 6 seasons.
-Had higher attendance than the Chicago Blackhawks 6 seasons.
-Had higher attendance than the Detroit Redwings 4 seasons.
-Had higher attendance than the Los Angeles Kings4 seasons.
In ELEVEN SEASONS (11), the Atlanta Thrashers:
-Had higher attendance than the Phoenix Coyotes 8 seasons.
-Had higher attendance than the New York Islanders 8 seasons.
-Had higher attendance than the New Jersey Devils 5 seasons.
-Had higher attendance than the Anaheim Mighty Ducks 5 seasons.
-Had higher attendance than the Washington Capitals 5 seasons.
-Had higher attendance than the Nashville Predators 6 seasons.
-Had higher attendance than Chicago Blackhawks 5 seasons.
There are currently three ownership groups who have plans to bring the NHL back to Atlanta. Three. It's going to happen.
ATLANTA THRASHERS ATTENDACES:
- The Atlanta Thrashers and Flames attendances were BAD....do not let anyone lie to you and tell you otherwise
2011 - 28th/30 teams in NHL attendance (13,469)
2010 - 28th/30 teams in NHL attendance (13,607)
2009 - 29th/30 teams in NHL attendance (14,626)
2008 - 22nd/30 teams in NHL attendance (15,831)
2007 - 21st/30 teams in NHL attendance (16,240)
- the inaugural season (1999) was the best attended season for Atlanta
- it is NEVER a good sign when your first year is the most successful -the attendance just dropped off after that
- 2007 was the Thrashers SECOND best season ever in attendance with a truly pathetic 16,240....(only good enough for 21st in the NHL that year)
- 2007 was also Atlanta's most successful year in the league losing in the Eastern Conference Quarter Finals
- Atlanta Thrashers second BEST was only good enough for 21st in the NHL in 2007
- IMAGINE being in a race, and you're finishing 29/30, 28/30, 22/30, 21st place out of 30 runners is considered good in your mind???? Atlanta was a complete joke. The attendances were truly pathetic.
2011 - 28th/30 teams in NHL attendance
2010 - 28th/30 teams in NHL attendance
2009 - 29th/30 teams in NHL attendance
2008 - 22nd/30 teams in NHL attendance
2007 - 21st/30 teams in NHL attendance
- Atlanta Thrashers second BEST attended season (16,240) would be 26th in today's NHL
@@sampicano You're a glass half full kind of guy.
They are a top-10 TV market. And where do you think the TNT studio is?
@@willp.8120 No, he's a douchebag kind of guy.
I would love to watch this whole video, but I can't take this blues clues sounding narrator anymore 😂
7:06 The topic is interesting, but i couldn't make it any further. I feel terrible saying, but also respectfully, It's too uncomfortable and irritating to listen to.
Now vegas can buy a Stanley cup just by forming a franchise. Disgusting what the nhl has become
That's why everyone was happy when they were eliminated by Dallas. Sadly, they'll do this again when the Coyotes return and get Auston Matthews and rig the expansion draft so that Arizona can buy a Stanley Cup just like Vegas.
And now Atlanta’s about to get a third team
8:35
You did say'....considerable depth,'
Right? I thought you left the P silent. That would have been troublesome.
god Atlanta late 90s early 2000s was brutal especially for turner WCW crumbling and being bought out Atlanta Thrashers failing
This guy is getting all pumped up about teams leaving town
How, how is this guy talking for a living
He's the Atlanta Thrashers of talking on TV
Great content
Flames, Thrashers. Two Canadian cities thank the inept people in Atlanta 😂
Well, when the team returns in the 2027-2029 time frame, which seems to be the plan, they won't be playing in the City of Atlanta, most likely, but rather a suburban area with competent leadership and access to the fan base. Think of the Braves success since they moved to the suburbs.
The NHL teams that lost the most money over the past decade (2012-2021):
-$152,900,000 = Florida Panthers (Miami - 6,183,199)
-$141,600,000 = Arizona Coyotes (Phoenix - 4,845,832)
-$108,800,000 = Carolina Hurricanes (Raleigh-Durham - 1,509,231)
-$83,500,000 = Anaheim Ducks (Los Angeles-Anaheim - 12,799,100)
-$76,000,000 = Columbus Blue Jackets (Columbus - 2,180,271)
-$74,400,000 = Tampa Lightning (Tampa-Saint Petersburg - 3,342,963)
-$59,900,000 = Buffalo Sabres (Buffalo - 1,155,604)
-$130,000,000 = Atlanta Thrashers (Atlanta - 6,307,261) [Atlanta lost $130 million in 5 years from 2005 to 2010]
+$4,900,000 = Winnipeg Jets (Winnipeg - 758,515)
+$50,900,000 = Ottawa Senators (Ottawa - 1,017,449)
So Ottawa generated $50.9 million....
1 million Canadians using Canadian currency generated 50.9 million dollars
6.1 million Americans in Miami lost 152 million dollars
4.8 million Americans in Phoenix lost 141 million dollars
12.9 million Americans in Anaheim lost 76 million dollars
3.3 million Americans in Tampa lost 74 million dollars
5.2 million Americans in Atlanta lost 130 million dollars
830,000 Canadians in Winnipeg generated 5 million dollars
How insanely stupid would you have to be to just want to lose money in Miami, Anaheim, Atlanta, Phoenix, Columbus, Tampa....instead of making money in Edmonton, Ottawa, Winnipeg.
I hope Atlanta sets RECORDS FOR MONEY LOST.
I hope we can relocate them forever, and we never have to hear another lie about Atlanta hockey ever again.
You don't even have an AHL team...Atlanta is SUCH A GOOD HOCKEY MARKET....but lost 2 NHL teams and DOESN'T EVEN HAVE AN AMERICAN HOCKEY LEAGUE TEAM! HAHAHAHA
Hershey Pennsylvania is a better hockey market
32 teams is enough 8 teams in 4 divisions has worked just fine since 2013-14
I would say the Thrashers actually maintained good attendance numbers considering they were a losing team nearly every year. You can see the rise in attendance during the few years they were playoff relevant. If the ownership group had actually cared enough to have a winning team then hockey would have done well in Atlanta.
Youth hockey in Georgia back when it had the Thrashers was much healthier than it has been without them. We had YMCA Youth Hockey in South Georgia of all place during those years. It stopped around 10 years ago though. Interest in the sport just fell off a cliff once the Thrashers left.
There are bright spots in the state of Georgia for hockey today. Savannah got an ECHL team 2 years ago and it's hard to get tickets for those games. Athens, GA will have a team in the FPHL for the 2024-2025 season. Macon, GA has had a team in the SPHL for nearly 10 years now. I would say the sport is primed to take off in Georgia, and bringing in an NHL team will be that shot of fuel it needs.
This video cured my adhd. Thank you ❤️
Sickest name and logo in all sports
LMFAO
STRONGLY DISAGREE
Turns out they had the sickest owners in 2 franchises
Sickest in another way last time I checked Atlanta failed twice in the NHL
Why do I have a feeling this was made just because the odds of Atlanta getting another NHL team are MUCH better than Canada getting another one?
Finally someone who gets it the fans weren’t the reason why they moved it was ownership that didn’t care
Do one on the Hartford Whalers
It's surprising how close so many franchises have been to bankruptcy
7:09 Looking at that collection of unsupported teams, the only surprise seems to be the Islanders. The rest are not exactly in areas where the native barbarians know anything about hockey other than the fights.
Written by AI and hosted by the voice of Chuck E Cheese
Being a Phoenix local.. gotta have one like this for the coyotes.
This video still doesn’t adequately acknowledge one of the biggest reasons the thrashers struggled with attendance: arena location. It’s in downtown Atlanta, where NO ONE with money lives. Atlanta is a commuter city with terrible public transit, so putting the stadium there was practically begging for them to struggle with attendance, especially on weeknights.
Very true. Downtown works for the Falcons because it’s only 8 times a year mostly on Sundays. The Hawks work because of basketball broader appeal. The Braves figured this out and built a new stadium in the burbs. The right owner with the right arena location and with the better expansion draft rules Atlanta can succeed in the NHL
it didn't matter where you put the team since Georgia doesn't support hockey...compared to every other state and province
that's the problem, that's why small cities in Canada do better
that's why Buffalo and Pittsburgh did better...it's because those re BETTER HOCKEY MARKETS
@@sampicano that isn’t true. There are plenty of hockey fans in Georgia and Arizona but it has to be easily accessible to them. If you look at what I wrote above, people did not like going to Braves games during the weekday because of the traffic getting from the suburbs to downtown Atlanta. So the Braves left a stadium that wasn’t even 20 years old and built one in the suburbs closer to where the fans were coming from. The panthers did the same when they moved out of downtown Miami because most of the hockey fans in south Florida live around Fort Lauderdale. Most of the affluent population live well outside the interstate perimeter to the west and north and just aren’t going to go to weekly games during the week if it means getting home well after 11pm. That’s why there a push to get an arena built in the suburbs in hopes get another expansion team and the league will give them one before any other city in Canada.
It’s weird to see a grown man try to sound like an 11 year old.. just talk regular bro 😭
Facts
Well he cant obviously he hasnt hit puberty
I will say, probably the best part about that franchise was their jerseys. Those are one of the bests jerseys I’ve ever seen in sports. If they come back I hope they re-adopt those jerseys and logos and team name. So good, but not so much on the ice.
I used to love watching these guys. Kovalchuk and Hossa were a sight to behold. If they got here today they’d be a success, the city is primed and ready to burst.
i wouldve loved to watch this but had to turn it off after 2 minutes due to the narration. awful
The funny part is that this video came out after the Yotes moved to Utah and Waddell is a quality GM in Carolina.
the same guy refusing to give brindamour a pay raise?????????
wow....are you his wife?
"Waddell is a quality GM in Carolina"
Gone within three weeks of you saying that. That is insane coincidence.
You couldn't have been more wrong.
Waddell is a quality GM in Carolina...fired 20 days later.
Imagine. How do you see the world?
What a GREAT GM-fired the next day lmfao
The thumbnail is the only tolerable part of the video
Didn't help that the demographic that would've gone to games, attendance being a major part of team revenue, lived away from downtown Atlanta. Among other issues with the city, there is a reason the Braves left Atlanta too and the Falcons Arthur had to be bribed to keep the his team in that area. The 2008 recession was the final straw
Notice where the potential third team would be located, in the suburbs an hour North of downtown Atlanta
LMAO. They failed for playing downtown? What a sad excuse for a pathetic city
@@tonyc8752 The makeup of downtown Atlanta is different than several North American cities, or at least it certainly was at the time. Some cities are extremely densely populated in the center (ironically enough, Winnipeg is the ultimate example, as the most recent study on urban density ranked Winnipeg *7th* in North America despite having less than 800,000 in the entire metro area). Atlanta, conversely, is among the more sprawled out metro areas--- There are *literally* 70 incorporated cities that make up metro Atlanta. And quite frankly, the *actual city* of Atlanta was probably one of the least populated with hockey fans of those 70 at the time (and might well still be now).
Saying "it's a sad excuse for a pathetic city" is no different than saying Ottawa is a "sad excuse for a pathetic city" for the Sens' attendance problems for *not* playing downtown. Arena location is a key part of any smartly run franchise's strategy.
And believe me, I love the city of Atlanta proper. No one more than me would love to say "it would work better downtown than OTP." But that's just not true.
@@brycemcneil4404 I appreciate the context. Is that why the highway system is horrible?
@tonyc8752 Plays a huge part, no doubt. Exits 240-250 are permanent rush hour some times of the year. 😅
@@tonyc8752 downtown population = black people
They don't watch hockey. They watch basketball and football
It's not a "sad excuse", it's just demographics.
NOTHING sums up NHL incompetence in regards to growing the fanbase like trading in a big rich market like Atlanta for a small poor market like Winnipeg.
the problem with people like you is that you're willing to relocate Canadian teams to "untapped markets" when hockey is never going to even come close to touching football, basketball or even baseball in general US sports culture. that's why us Canadian fans are upset with Bettman's (and the owners) insistent push to expand the league to markets LIKE Atlanta. how is the NHL going to survive in a non-hockey market with FOUR other major teams within the same market? THAT screams incompetence, not moving teams to Winnipeg where they're all but guaranteed to be the biggest money maker in town
@@Helvigster and the problem with people like you is that you don't realize that the BIG money is made in the top American Media Markets, not in small town Canada. You have any idea how many people live in a 100 mile radius of Atlanta? Or how much corporate presence is there? The Atlanta market can support all 5 sports teams easy. Not even a question. You are lucky that the NHL is this inept to begin with, otherwise Winnipeg would only have a Double-A hockey right now. That being said they will always be under the threat of relocation. And LOL at calling the Jets "guaranteed to be the biggest money maker in town"; How much are the Jets worth again compared to the other 31 teams? Check the Forbes list.
@@geoff3103 look friend, I won't deny that just in general, there's way more money to be made in the US compared to up here, partly because Americans just consume, consume, consume, and also because they have a way higher population.
the NHL's problem is that they really messed up by pulling the plug on the Thrashers too early. since they left, an MLS team got awarded to Atlanta. isn't Atlanta's MLS team one of the most popular in the league now? and the fan support from what I could gather is actually really good. THAT could've been the Thrashers. the problem is that I fear it's too late. I get Atlanta has a high suburban population, but is the NHL really going to be able to compete with the NBA, NFL, MLB and now the MLS in a non-traditional hockey market? a new Atlanta team would have to have Vegas-like success early if they want to build a solid foundation.
but anyway, I'm just tired of people like you, as disrespectful as it sounds. if the NHL did things your way, Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver would be the only teams remaining north of the border and I, as well as lots of other people, would rightfully hate that. we're losing our own game to Americans for the sake of more money and it really sucks. let us be angry alright?
@@Helvigster naw, Alberta would still have NHL teams. PLENTY of people and money in that province, they ain't leaving unless their owners have SERIOUS financial problems, but i doubt that. Only team up there in danger is Winnipeg. Everyone else is safe. And Atlanta is big and rich enough to support NHL hockey. heck, if their 1st owner back in 1980 wasn't in the construction business or a business that got a hammered by high interest rates and energy costs Atlanta would still have the Flames. Calgary would also have a team too.
@@geoff3103 fair enough, I just get all flustered and worried is all. I'm kind of with you in regards to the NHL's sheer incompetence, they should really decide whether or not they're willing to drag dead weight in Winnipeg and Ottawa with them, or if they really want to go all in on trying to establish the game in the US. I think Atlanta would be fantastic for the NHL if they can find the right owners to lead them. again, I genuinely believe that all the fan success with Atlanta's MLS team could've been the Thrashers if they weren't so horribly ran by Atlanta Spirit. but if the new owners can right the previous wrong, all for it.
5:05
8:49
Atlanta Spirit was just the same as Jerry Buss. Atlanta Spirit owned the Thrashers as a tax write-off for the Hawks. Jerry Buss owned the Kings as a tax write-off for the Lakers. That's why both teams floundered.
When atlanta got a team, i stopped watching hockey for about 20 years.
Also the fact that they essentially got kicked out of Phillips Arena didn't help things either
I hope the NHL tries one more time and puts another team in Atlanta. Since they keep relocating to Canadian cities, this would probably be the only way Quebec City will ever get a team again.
So did the NHL see how bad the way teams could protect teams from losing players to expansion teams and change the rules which helped Vegas do what they have so far? I'm new to hockey and never knew the ins and outs for new teams. Also why would hockey in Georgia be scary with teams in cali, Texas and Florida seeming to sustain?
- Georgia was ranked 40th out of 50 states in overall hockey registration in 2022
- Georgia was ranked 46th out of 50 states in hockey registration per capita in 2022
- Hockey registration in Georgia was 0% in 1970.
- Hockey registration in Georgia was 0.02% in 2022.
- In 104 years it would be 0.04% growth rate…
52 years = 0.02% growth
26 years = 0.01% growth
That would be like having 100 people play hockey, and in 26 years you only have 101 people playing….
Fun fact: Florida, California, Texas...ALL HAVE MUCH MUCH MUCH MUC better hockey enrollment....Georgia is 46th out of 50 states....
hawaii has worse registration....alabama, lousiana, new mexico, arkansas.....like....that's it...Georgia is literally on a BOTTOM 5 list for hockey registration.
It is a GARBAGE HOCKEY MARKET....Prince Edward Island....in Canada has more hockey players....and only 150 thousand people.
Georgia has over 11 million people but has less hockey players than PEI.....wow.....
#NeverAtlanta
#NevaATL
@sampicano that's wild. I didn't know they had stats like that. Makes sense. As I think about it, kind of not surprised chocolate city wouldn't be a hockey hub🤣🤣.
@@MagaKoz
Atlanta is not a chocolate city. That is a media hyped concoction. Even the actual city proper doesn't have a black majority. The suburbs an even smaller percentage and there are millions of white people in the suburbs.
Youth hockey participation does not equate to interest in the sport.
Kovalchuk was disgusting find my comments on all his old highlights lol
They needed to join the NHL the same year as Nashville. Because they didn't they ended up picking a flop like Stefan in a terrible 1999 draft and had a stock of players that was even weaker than what the Predators chose from.
One could argue that Patrik Stefan is the Bill Buckner of hockey.
My cousin norm maracle was on that original team and faced 50 shots a night.
All this Patrick Stefan talk is giving me PTSD as a Stars fan
Hemsky shoots and he scores! Can you believe what we just saw?
sens better use this vid as a reminder what can happen if they keep being ass
😂😂😂😂
I have that Gretzky book. Good read
And then they drafted patrick Stefan
Can’t really be mad about them not picking zetterberg. He was very late round pick, like 7th
I liked the thrashers name and logo when they joined league in 99', i was 12 years old, too bad team was never really any good!? Atlanta has tried to have an NHL team twice now and failed miserably both times!!?? And Atlanta has been thrown around recently in talks of possoble future expansion cities but really they should be bottom of any list for future expansion cities imo!? Im sure most fans would rather see Qubec get a 2nd shot at a team b4 Atlanta gets a 3rd shot at it!!?? Quebec might not be a big market like atlanta but at least hockey is popular in Quebec!? And im sure most serious hockey fans would rather see Quebec get another team way b4 Atlanta!? In reality Houston will probably be next city to get an NHL team? But after that id love to see Quebec and Hartford get franchises again!? Quebec and Hartford could just bring back the Nordiques and Whalers names and logos and be good to go!? The Nordiques and Whalers logos r so simple yet they're awesome and iconic logos!!??
As a red wing fan - Hank was a pick in the 200’s
Way overlooked - 7th round - 210…
Thrashers are pretty cool birds, also. -Georgia hockey fan
Do one on the Coyotes now!
Since Atlanta stole Marquis Grissom from the Montreal Expos and were part of their decline and disappearance, I don't feel sorry for Atlanta losing their NHL teams, twice. If Montreal is just supposedly a hockey city, then Atlanta is just a baseball city. Atlanta can have their 3rd NHL team. It'll end of in Quebec City eventually.
The Expos didn't have to agree to a trade.
As much as i wasn't super into the guy presenting the video, the rude comments about him are far more unpleasant.
Why does this guy remind me of Charlie Day?
Giving that type of energy for no reason lol
6:18 Don’t forget Donald Audette..until he got traded