I think V5 needs more videos like this. Someone from behind the scenes explaining stuff from a lore and behind the scenes perspective while also expressing the complaints of legacy and v5 fans alike. Werewolf also desperately needs something similar.
My god this video has been V5's most needed video for the community since release! It is so relieving to hear someone finally saying the obvious answers to the complaints I have grown so tired of hearing. The Gentleman gamer, coming back to once again remind everyone what the essence of storytelling is all about!
Obviously the essence is to have all cities who holds domain there them set in stone as part of the metaplot. And Players that read all the books and know all the charackters hate it if nothing of that history and charackters gets used because you think that you could just be creative and tell a story only utilizing the rules...in fact they will complain...because thats hwo Masquerade players allways were and will continue to be.
@@TremereTT Some* players. Often the loudest ones sadly as they feel some sort of authority over others from knowing the official example toolbox of lore well. In reality, the core of the game is freedom to tell and craft great stories. No-one should be shouting in entitlement that everyone must always use all of the tools in the toolbox or that only the example tools be used and that peoples own tools or interpretation of lore is inferior or wrong. (unless it is harmful to people.) If a good story is told and fun is had, the game was played perfectly. Lore lawyers can be problematic.
Many people feel that the metaplot is a hardline stance on how the world should be. Thank you for reminding people that they are allowed and should change anything for thier table. Great video
Only thing better than a good Meta-Plot is chopping it up and putting it back together so it fits your setting. As a tool the Beckoning is pretty cool. I run V20 and its one of the handful of ideas that get brought in from V5.
For some reason V20 is just almost perfect; a remastered version for todays timeline would be amazing; and i'll spend the money on that in a hearth beat.
I used the Beckoning to explain big power gaps in the Tower, I used the antediluvuans waking up to explain big gaps in the Sword (fanatics went off to fight them, power-hungry-monsters said, 'holy shit they're real? I thought we were just using them as propoganda'), I used the Tremere Chantry thing to just say that there are a bunch of people who rightfully consider themselves at the top of the pyramid, who aren't sure if anyone else above them is going to show back up or not, figuring out how to take over without overtly violating their vows. I never bothered to explain the beckoning in character, most the young elders and older ancillae who weren't affected generally tried to keep it a secret that it was happening at all, so only a couple PCs knew it was something that was happening outside of a Harpy's rumor.
There are two elements of "The Beckoning" that first came to me. The first is to think of The Beckoning as all the nobility from D&D suddenly were packing up and leaving. The other way is to think of it as a disease outbreak. The first is a change that won't effect your characters directly, (for a while at least.) The other is a problem that is happening "Over There," that will eventually be directly effecting your campaign. My first thought was that The Beckoning was now calling the high level kindred, but in the end, would be calling all.
You're quite right. To stick with my Middle Ages England theme, this could be very reminiscent of the Black Death suddenly sweeping the slate clean regardless of class or stature.
This is a fantastic video. I like how you make clear that the beckoning is not a mechanic, but a plot device that people should use to enrich their stories and that it is not meant to prevent any stories from happening. Many really don't seem to understand that difference. But not only that, you immediately deliver examples on how to incorporate the beckoning in the stories with various plot hooks. The beckoning and the gehanna war in general were unfortunate in their descriptions (corebook). It was so much catered towards the middle east and connected with real world conflicts. Pure choices. I know OPP and Chicago began to remedy this poor design choice by making it move in destination with something, whatever it is. Unfortuneately, the topic has not been brought up ever again, what this something is as VtM moved away from worldbuilding, flavour texts and expositions with the recent publications, only cementing the Onxy Path publications as the best in line.
I'm very glad you think so. I think we did excellent work on the World of Darkness, but I'm sure there's some good material in the Renegade offerings too.
Notably, this videos context is why I always prefered Requiem over Masquerade. Not that I dislike Masquerade, I just prefered it more for its lore than running the game. Requiem felt far more freeing for me as a Storyteller.
Thank you, that makes a lot of sense and explains a lot of what Jason Carl did in LA by Night, both in describing the Beckoning as unexplained and unpredictable and, also in using it to remove Isaac Abrams but not the Camarilla elders or the Voormans.
Thank you for this video and your wonderful snakines :D And I agree with what you said about Beckonig as a mistery: "Why did this old lick dissapear?" . It was well executed in the Parliament of Knives, too, but hearing you say it out loud helped to solidify it in my brain. Thanks for that!
I completely missed your kickstater, but gods damned am I very grateful that you've been doing these videos, revisiting Vampire: the Masquerade. And I shall definitely keep the World Below in mind.
I have an elder in my chronicle who resists the beckoning with an obsessive ambition (and probably spends willpower), he's also terrified of Ur-Shulgi which helps motivate him
I confess our long term group removed the Beckoning and replaced it with a weaker version so those who lost control of themselves would start to be pulled away. That wasn't limited to elders but of course was most likely to effect them due to their ennui/inhumanity. Gave them a reason to force themselves to be active while retaining the idea of a horrible warzone full of skirmishing monsters elsewhere.
I think the game is more fun with the elders and methuselah still around. I’ve recently started learning about V20 dark ages and it is quickly becoming my favorite setting for vampire. It’s almost like stepping into a piece of history and folklore. Also it feels more believable than the modern versions. It’s very easy to break the masquerade in a world of smart phones and satellites. Just imagine all the masquerade breaches that have been caught on Google Earth.
And that's why the Inquisition is so damn effective in V5. It's all a question of the flavour you want to go for. If you want a video on the subject, please consider backing The World Below!
My game completely ignored the beckoning. I didn't have need of it and the players never asked. However, the principle you describe is an important one. I actually did have one player who had been looking at some of the lore regarding one of the alternate Paths and the story of Carna. I had not read about Carna at all at the time, but I gathered something about what she was talking about was a point of contradiction. I reminded her that the lore in Vampire is all told from the perspective of individuals and much of it is contradictory. No lore source can be considered as Truth. Even supposed 'rules' can be... not quite what you might expect them to be. A Vampire table is not Adventurer's League.
Hello sir - been a very long time fan (I remember your old call of Cthulu and Forgotten Realm DnD recaps!) Happy to support your new work with an Artificer pledge! Q. for you...Why in V5 did the Appearance Attribute get replaced? It seems so important a characteristic in a world of vain, shallow, social monsters? Especially because Composure & Resolve seem so interchangeable. Best wishes for continued success and thank you for bringing the Lasombra into the Camarilla - they're my favorite Clan, and I never played Sabbat games so this was a welcome update! - a video talking about the changes to the Ivory Tower I'm sure would be very well received by all!
Thank you so much for the support! Appearance was removed as a trait as it was barely ever rolled, and appearance is a subjective thing anyway. Matched Chronicles of Darkness, it made more sense to have three resistance Attributes instead. And I can definitely make a video about the new Camarilla.
I think your words are absolutely understandable. Storytellers should understand exactly what you are saying! It's clear that the Beckoning is meant to be applied specifically for the chronicle that is being run. The Storyteller can, and should, customize the concept for their own benefit and usage. That's what I am doing with it. It's clear to me that this concept is not meant to be a metaplot intended for a non negotiating concept that is all encompassing for ALL elders.
I run an Ashhira game where my players had to run within an endless sands that have lines up of people walking into one direction, whatever their interaction with with simply do not answer, their eyes is hollow, their mouth is open and speak in ancient tongues. My wah’sheen player took it personally as an offense and punch them really really hard to knock them off only to stand up and completely ignore them and keep on walking, until my khayal player have the wrong idea in eaten one of them which resulted in these mindless elders, grow hungry and try to devour him alone with the one he try to eat, which he use obtenebration mixed with potance to break free only to be drowned by many of them . My majnoon player made the best decision by make them completely obfuscated and being able to run away , and I mean far far away .
I’ve been playing VtM since revised edition. I hate V5 for numerous reasons but I do appreciate the lore updates and think the beckoning is a cool idea. The power vacuum and chaos it will create, to me, is the coolest aspect of it. A book should come out that fleshes out the war going on in the Middle East between the Sabbat and all these older or ancient kindred. It could be a really fun time having PCs go join the fight as elders themselves. Several antediluvians rising in an epic climax of destruction. I have never followed the metaplot exactly but I love to see what the official published plot is and then I tweak it to what I want it to be for my world.
I don't think it is snobbery to be confused by people who feel that they are unable to change things in a rpg. Whether it is in the introduction or in the game master section, every core book says that if you don't like something change it. Change mechanics, change lore, change the setting.....just that whenever you do it to be upfront, consistent, and fair. There will always be at least one player who reads all the books and will want you to implement "canon" that you have chosen to ignore. You just have to explain to them that this is your setting.
I'll admit to being guilty of looking for exact dates for things. I once went looking for one for the Family Reunion. With some help, I managed to narrow it down to within a decade or so. It was actually Ian Watson who gave me the date I ended up using for my world building. He suggested 2012, because that's when Onyx Path was founded. It does make that a VERY busy year for vampires though. XD
To all the story tellers out there that is a very important thing to establish. At your table the lore is your own, in MCU craze parlons you can explain it as a sort of different continuation (or if you are feeling extra spicy/lazy, a "multi-verse" thing). Set the expectation and make it clear that what happens at your table is only canon and need to only be canon to your stories and if players take umbrage to that then I recommend not playing with them. Of course you need to be internally consistent with how things play out, follow your own rules that you set in world, but for a table to work Rule 0 needs to be enforced because otherwise you don't have the power to make the game at all.
Love how you broke this down Matthew. Creativity is very essential is storytelling. The best storytellers we know of these days in the world are ones who have had incredible creativity. I have always been a fan of "make it your own". I would absolutely hate it if I could not change what I needed to in my own writing to produce the material I really wanted to see. That's what freedom is all about, and lack of freedom can hinder creativity. If you don't like something then change it. If you don't know how to change it, then work on developing your creative juices so you can bring out the flavors you really want to taste. It's difficult yes, but that is all apart of the fun. It will make you better in the end, I guarantee it!
I completely agree, and I appreciate you saying so! And of course I should ask, do you think I could convince you to give The World Below on BackerKit your support? www.backerkit.com/c/projects/onyx-path/the-world-below
haha yah I had one game where it became a bloody dungeon crawl, set in detroit, the city is now up for grabs between Camarilla and Anarchs (along with hunters in te middle) player characers have to investigate a seemingly abandoned large house in Highland park detroit. where its rumored to be the demense of a powerful Sabbat elder who was rumored to have been killed by hunters. Then the players find out that the hoouse has very large catacombs underneath it teeming with teh minions of the elder. so you have the kindred player characters(either Camarilla, Anarch, indepenents or all of the above) also characters can play hunters or any other supernatural, I had a group of playres play Hunters who are investigating disappearances from surrounding neighbourhoods. . while the characters were busy trying to survive. Hunters show up to complicate things and both vampires and hunters re forced to team up to survive then the heavilly armed locals of the neighbourhood also show up. the whole thing became a total shit show with the whole area becoming a warzone with a massive mutant ghoul experiment of hte Sabbat elder breaking free and rampaging in the neighourhood like he was godzilla hahha. THen the police get involved later hahaha.
I'm writing a scenario for a city in Brazil and some of the required proximities for it to make sense. In that setting - that hasn't been given more than a couple paragraphs of content, and content that is based solely on bad stereotypes - there aren't as many super old kindred and without the same infrastructure as they would have in North America and in the Old World, a lot of the problems The Beckoning wants to solve do not exist here. There are options of course, one could write as if South America had the same amount of presence and power as the Old World, or if one wants to write a setting without the elder dread, but I see this as quite limiting for a more 'politics-Jihad' chronicle.
A Torreador Elder awakens in Chicago. A freighter is chartered to take them from New York City to somewhere in Europe. Your coterie is charged with escorting them cross-country under cover of night in an aged Volkswagen van. Plan a route, keep the van running, and don’t put the Elder into frenzy with a Brujah mixtape.
That's how I always viewed the Beckoning. As a plot device to be used as seen fit. Especially after seeing Helena in CbN. Want elders? Keep them. Don't want them? Remove them. Want only some of them? Keep only some of them and remove the rest. Sure, even below average ST could do it before without the Beckoning but to be given an in-lore plot device to do that is not a bad thing.
I wonder how much it would cost to get him to... not "redo" his series about vampire clans because I want his more mature opinions on a very different setting than the one he talked about so long ago. But maybe I could say "give an update on everything VtM". I would love that.
Ooo it's tempting, but I think you'd be wanting to back at the Explorer level for me to give updates on say... The Hecata, the modern Camarilla, and the Lasombra? That would be a good place to start.
Well, considering how WoD was handled before V5, It's not really a surprise to see storytellers complaining about clear metaplot definitions. That's how they were fed from previous editions and that's the kind of player and STs the setting has attracted since the beginning of time.
Oh I agree. It was especially written into Revised edition that way. Have you checked out Curseborne yet? www.kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/curseborne-tabletop-roleplaying-game
in my mind people complaining about metaplot is not unlike, say, complaining about the faerun setting in D&D. yes, its somewhat of a "cannon" setting, but all these books and rule sets are more like toolboxes than lawbooks. they are simply here for inspiration. dont like the metaplot? you can just disregard it entirely and just use the rules, you dont even have to use all of the rules! just pick and mix what you like. tabletop games are there for you to use your own imagination, supplemented with a book of ideas, not rules.
I find it harder to write a D&D than a Vampire story. Granted, Vampire needs more upfront preparation before the campaign starts: Creating the important NPCs, their motivations and goals, and a general idea the story would bend without the PCs, but after that, you just need to be good at keeping a holistic perspective to be able to react to almost anything the players would come up with. In D&D, if playersgo off plot, then you are in a valley of pain. Creating mid to high level NPCs takes forever. It is not just stats, but also equipment to consider. I hate D&D.
@@TheGentlemanGamerI am very reluctant to try anything new. Most of the tabletops I got into were through video games. And damn do I like video games as a medium. The world below needs a video game at some point. Doesn't have to be high budget. Just something indie with cool art and gameplay mechanics. Msybe even a card game?
@@Pavel-wj7gy You never know! It's more likely we can make additional games if the RPG does well, as it's the source material. So even backing for just the PDF is helpful.
In regards to the video request option, I would rather ask first: The topic I would love to hear you talk about would be "WoD connected". What I mean by that is simply how all the different things connects. Spirits from Werewolf with spirits from Mage, what is the relation between Triad and Fallen, etc. Preferably with focus on "pregistory". What happened when, was War of Rage before the time of Enoch or after, etc. I am blabbering, but what I meant to ask is, would such topic even be manageable? And would you be willing to make it (after the afore mentioned backing)?
I'd happily make a video on how to connect elements of the World of Darkness together, though connecting Enoch, the War of Rage, etc. isn't terribly easy, as they each position the world in an utterly different way - even more so than the cosmology in the modern era. If you can narrow down what you want and make your pledge, I'll make a video!
@@TheGentlemanGamer Hard to narrow it down, as I am interested in the broad picture, and after that connect it to even broader one in an ExWoD (fan created Exalted in World of Darkness ruleset) :-) I will try to think about something more specific, but it's hard, when my interest lies in cosmology and the eternal question Which creation myth is the correct one:-)
@@TheGentlemanGamer Well, even though I love the general idea of Its all somehow true, that IMHO works only if it "only" the mythos. But wanting to explore those things closer, one might even say get involved, than some cleaner idea of how things transpired would be gr8. Buy I am not even sure, if that is possible to deduce solely based on official lore. That's basically what I would like to see. The official truth of the WoD. And just to be clear, from Gentleman, surely not from that bloke who (I think) worked some time for Black Dog Game Factory, that would be just one-sided propaganda;-)
Just seems like a drastic solution to the wrong problem (i.e., setting neophyte chronicles in territories with a lot of old, powerful vampires and expecting to change the world)
As a still "V20 main" longtime ST who is also working on my own "v20 inspired" ttrpg, what I don't like the most about the beckoning is the ripple effect it had on the mechanics in general. there are no 6+ level powers anymore in v5 - because players aren't supposed to play low gen vamps anymore (for some reason. if the table has fun at it, it is a valid playstyle) and elders are (more or less) gone and the system is supposed to be streetlevel. but either for npcs or "elder games", I think the level 6+ powers being cut out was an wrong decision. having powers the average/standard PC cannot have simply because of their generation was something, that made the elders special/better NPCs. V5 is worse than it could be because of it. and I have the feeling that step was mainly done with the beckoning in mind, making mechanics for elders "less important". at least the newest release (the gehenna war) tried to correct that mistake to a degree, but it still lingers.
I really dislike the beckoning for several reasons. I think it cheapens the kindred curse of living forever. Both the horror of it and very idea of eternal unlife. I alao agree that NPCs are only as powerful or disruptive as the the storyteller allows them to be. I also really enjoyed reading about the elder npcs and having a rich background of characters to use in games if the need arises. I personally loved the metaplot.
another scenario I had also set in Detroit in the late 80s. was a hunter adventure in a similiar area with the characters being hunters embeded within the ATF in a large detroit police raid with ATF and FBI raiding a drug lord who turns out to be the thrall of a large sabbat pack. in turns into a shit show as the sabbat pack fights back also a surprise is that one of the FBI agents is actually a enhanced NWO assasin with back up Hit marks. who wants to kill all the Sabbat pack members and destroy any evidence of his dealings with his boss. I also threw in a COPS tv show crew embeded in the Police raid. The scenario produced an artifact videos which showed the strange events of the raid which killed like 20 law enforcement officers(like a found footage horror movie) which is actively suppressed by teh technocracy whenever it shows up. Despite having police informts, the Sabbat pack got too cocky ruling its turf and thought it cna handle the raid. I also threw in a Brujah antitribu abomination in the pack to spice things up haha
Being the Prince of some small city where your biggest problem is the occasional Anarch passing through and suddenly you have to play host to half a dozen incomprehensibly powerful elders (both in personal and political power, either of which can throw the entire continent into turmoil in but a few nights) sounds like the closest Vampire will get to being a sitcom.
Then you have my gratitude, and I'll definitely read your video suggestion and consider it, but this scheme is a method to attract even more backers - so I won't make any guarantees!
If I already backed for the nice leatherbound book and fancy dice beforehand do I still get a video? Haha 😆 Super excited to see another Vampire video on the channel and very much so for The World Below too! It hits basically every one of my boxes, or at least my buzz words, and I have every confidence in you sir (and the team).
Your generous support is greatly appreciated, and by all means suggest a video, but I'll give precedence to anyone who backs this week in the BackerKit lull!
I could feel the aggravated willpower damage being dealt to you when talking about people that want rigid rules for Metaplot while also complaining such rules ruin their chronicles. lol I thought the V20 approach of picking and choosing what parts of the meta plot featured in the book is relevant for a gaming group was a core part of VTM and carried over to V5. This has been a debate in the community since V5 started and you've basically just stated the obvious for all us V5 fans. It is perplexing that it has to be stated at all. That said, V20 has always been there for people that prefer that system and the state the metaplot was at. They are free to pick and choose what parts of V5 to carry over to V20. That has always been an option. So its not like Paradox came along and forced everyone to adopt everything about V5.
Obvious to some but not to others! There are a few people in these comments who are of the opinion that by not setting everything in stone we were being wishy washy, which just isn't true.
@@TheGentlemanGamer Cool. I thought in rules , only 9th gen and lower got beckoned. G you think a 300 year old 12th gen would get summoned or no? I have 2 characters' one my dark age character and another one
I was born in 96, Im exhausted by the move towards street level game play with top down design. I feel like the point of ttrpg is to use imagination, surely just more content to use with advisory labels would be enough, why does so much seem to need to be mandated of how to play
nice, reasoned explanation. doesn't matter....i STILL hate that the game has been GUTTED of half of what made it interesting in the first place. not that anyone will care.
While I agree that a Storyteller should be making effort to change the setting so the story they want to tell works, I think you've missed an important aspect: New Storytellers and why they use premade chronicles. It's your first time running a ttrpg and you want everyone to have fun. Their ability falls on your shoulders. You prepped and had your session 0. But you don't know what you are doing. So you run it as close to the chronicle's beats as possible. Ignoring the sidebars and keeping it as simple as possible. Great news! Everyone loved it and want to play next week at the same time. So you do the same thing again. It goes great again! And so on. This new Storyteller has inadvertently created a feedback loop of staying close to the books and needing strict rules for the lore. All because they wanted their friends to have fun and developed tunnel vision independent of what you put into the books beside the main story beats. As well as creating the mindset that they can only run a good game if they stay consistent with the world and premade stories. Also this ignores that having your personal chronical fit into the greater Lore/story of what is happening can create a sense of community and mutual understanding with people you've never played with but share the same world with. It is a very strong feeling. It makes Storyteller games feel more like a community than other ttrpgs and I think there are a lot of people who crave that.
I completely agree with you that premade chronicles are useful for new Storytellers and that many will follow them to the letter, but it's in advice like I give in this video, and appears throughout books, that Storytellers can learn to go "off page" and not get stuck in the feedback loop you mentioned. It's impossible to write a chronicle that can truly cater to every possible character and player, so there needs to be some linearity and dominant NPCs, but the trick Storytellers new and old need to learn is that the chronicle only becomes truly memorable and important when they start ignoring the strict details and start adding their own material based on the protagonists.
I've been worried the Beckoning isn't really going anywhere, but solely there for gameplay balancing. Is there a proper plan for where this story-arch is going? I don't hate it; in fact, I believe that the mystery surrounding it is absolutely necessary. I think it's best to stay away from those big, over-the-top events (week of nightmares...) and have the world be more down to earth, as it were. We don't want another Warhammer, where everything has to be bigger and louder than what preceded it. That's a no end sink-hole, and maybe why we are here at V5 to begin with(?). Politics, mystery and personal horror is what it's about, right.
Never been a fan of v5, and even less of The Beckoning. This video simply filled in some guesses with answers for me. Now the tips on how to play with The Beckoning was good ones, but polishing a turd as they say... Great Video 👍
We worked with the material we had! And sometimes they were indeed turds. Now, do you think I could interest you in supporting the BackerKit campaign for The World Below?
I have no problem with the beckoning as a concept. The problem is that it breaks verisimilitude. Thousands of elders from all different backgrounds and philosophies are gone but supposedly together and in some sort of nebulous void and it has no effect on the setting? That’s a lot of power in one place and no one has any idea and there are no obvious signs of what is happening. It just puts to much suspension of disbelief on the game that it just doesn’t work. If you want them to be gone that’s fine but at least make it make sense. It’s just one big deus ex in a long list of them that makes the lore of V5 a bit of a joke.
I think his point of "you ran it that way" is the answer. Tabletop games aren't a Novel. It's just a tool. It has exactly as much impact on your game and setting as you make it. Don't like it? Don't use it. Think it needs to have an impact? Make it have an impact. The power is all yours. You are supposed to fill in the gaps. Not sure I can agree at all about there being any issues with suspension of disbelief. A ton of demi-gods are off doing something that none of us lesser beings understand? That's like 3/4 of the whole setting. Now, I also dislike V5. But it's mostly because of what they did to Bloodlines and Diciplines.
@@Michael-bn1oi As I knew we weren't going to get clan write-ups for the bloodlines, the Loresheet version was genuinely my best attempt at having them in the game. Without those, you wouldn't have them at all!
@@TheGentlemanGamer The Loresheets are certainly interesting, and I've absolutely cannibalized them for all that juicy content. But combined with the Dicipline changes my players simply didn't have much interest. They would rather do V20 where they can be exactly whatever weirdo Bloodline they want, with whatever weirdo Diciplines it has (depending on the chronicle I'm running. Always going to be at least one or two off limits clans/bloodlines) We use the Humanity and Hunger systems from V5 as well. It's incredibly mechanically solid, it's just missing whatever little something makes V20 special for my group. But every group wants different stuff from a game/setting/table
@@Michael-bn1oi I get that completely. Likewise, I run Vampire: The Requiem 2e predominantly as it does everything I want a Vampire game to do. But there are bits and pieces I take from elsewhere all the time.
So if i understand this correctly its a GM tool to throw away the metaplot? Wouldnt it be easer to just set a disclamer "metaplot is not be all end all and as a gm feel free to change/ignore it" for those that do not know that?
All metaplot is a GM tool. It's a metaplot event you can use as severely or as lightly as you choose. You want all methuselahs gone? Do it. You want 3% of them gone? Do it. It's a tool for Storytellers to use to change the status quo of the game setting. I would suggest that "metaplot is not be all end all and as a gm feel free to change/ignore it" is implicit, but not everyone seems to realise. Yet, stating it in the front of every book would be wasting word count for people who are already aware. You can't win.
@@TheGentlemanGamer Thank you for the answer. I cant say i fully buy it. There is a lot of unnecessary disclaimers in the book. The biggest autrage as i feel it was that the beconing now would seem mandatory so the same people that felt powerless because of the elders now would feel the need to get rid of all of them and complain they cant use elders anymore ;-)
@@jackmalin2528 I do disagree there, as it should be clear in all the V5 books that there are still elders around and only some have disappeared. Chicago by Night explains ways some elders have staved off the pull. Cults of the Blood Gods even establishes that an entire clan was unaffected. So the information is there, but I suspect a lot of folks just take it at face value.
@The Gentleman Gamer would love to see you do some videos on aberrant. white wolfs lost child. cant back anything. am poor. i dont have 10 cents to donate let alone enough to donate enough for any kind of status. lol. i do hope the world below gets funded though. but aberrant is so good. and most people dont even know about it. let alone how amazing it is. its seriously my favorite white wolf setting. its my happy place.
@@KagaiYami Supplements as well. There's a lot of Aberrant material out over the last four or five years. Just search for it on Google or DriveThruRPG.
You're right that DnD can be more complex than just kill the monster, grab the stuff. My first and only cleric is possessed by part of a vampire god 😂 But yeah, writing a game for VTM is way harder, so far. Writing a mystery for my first ever game. Never played it before , but I hope someone in my group eventually does because I've been itching to play a Gangrel for years!
Well if you need any help, just ask here! And I believe you've already backed The World Below, but if not, do so and I'll make a video on structuring a Vampire mystery.
@@TheGentlemanGamer Cartographer, I think it was. I've got the ending and a bunch of moving parts, so to speak.ight cut some NPCs, I don't think it needs primogen from every clan to be available, now I think on it. Got a couple of red herrings as it would be a little too easy without any. Got a few sessions worth done, getting near the midway point now. Unfortunately, I have OCD, so my brain is demanding super detailed parts, kinda like if statements in computer programming IE "if this, then that, else other". I know I can't anticipate everything, but if I get the most likely outcomes done, I feel I'd be better prepared. The rest of it I can improvise. Knowing the group well helps. I learned not to hide important clues behind dice rolls as players can have a bad night and if that happens, the biggest clues are gone and that's said to be something to avoid doing. One of the players is giving the game one last chance because of bad experiences, so my aim is to justify that trust. And 2 are wholly new. Luckily, I have one player who is well versed in Vampire and knows his stuff very well. I'll be doing a session 0 with them, explaining things in and out of character to give them a feel for it, a 1 to 1 with their sires, using that as the way to explain the basics and feel for the game.
![[Vampire: The Masquerade] The Guide to Clan Hecata](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ncuHvAv1cP8/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Vampire: The Masquerade] The Guide to Clan Hecata](/img/tr.png)
I think V5 needs more videos like this. Someone from behind the scenes explaining stuff from a lore and behind the scenes perspective while also expressing the complaints of legacy and v5 fans alike. Werewolf also desperately needs something similar.
I'm glad you enjoyed it! Sadly I can't really speak about W5's design, as I wasn't on the team that made the final product.
My god this video has been V5's most needed video for the community since release!
It is so relieving to hear someone finally saying the obvious answers to the complaints I have grown so tired of hearing.
The Gentleman gamer, coming back to once again remind everyone what the essence of storytelling is all about!
Obviously the essence is to have all cities who holds domain there them set in stone as part of the metaplot. And Players that read all the books and know all the charackters hate it if nothing of that history and charackters gets used because you think that you could just be creative and tell a story only utilizing the rules...in fact they will complain...because thats hwo Masquerade players allways were and will continue to be.
@@TremereTT Some* players.
Often the loudest ones sadly as they feel some sort of authority over others from knowing the official example toolbox of lore well.
In reality, the core of the game is freedom to tell and craft great stories. No-one should be shouting in entitlement that everyone must always use all of the tools in the toolbox or that only the example tools be used and that peoples own tools or interpretation of lore is inferior or wrong. (unless it is harmful to people.)
If a good story is told and fun is had, the game was played perfectly.
Lore lawyers can be problematic.
There is some shade "you ran that" but I deeply love it lol
There is! If you run a game in a silly way, you get silly prizes.
Many people feel that the metaplot is a hardline stance on how the world should be. Thank you for reminding people that they are allowed and should change anything for thier table. Great video
Only thing better than a good Meta-Plot is chopping it up and putting it back together so it fits your setting.
As a tool the Beckoning is pretty cool. I run V20 and its one of the handful of ideas that get brought in from V5.
same! I run V20 and included the Beckoning and the Lasombra joining the Cams.
For some reason V20 is just almost perfect; a remastered version for todays timeline would be amazing; and i'll spend the money on that in a hearth beat.
@@wsorrentini highly recommend. Might take some time to reach the same depth, but what is there is actually really interesting
I used the Beckoning to explain big power gaps in the Tower, I used the antediluvuans waking up to explain big gaps in the Sword (fanatics went off to fight them, power-hungry-monsters said, 'holy shit they're real? I thought we were just using them as propoganda'), I used the Tremere Chantry thing to just say that there are a bunch of people who rightfully consider themselves at the top of the pyramid, who aren't sure if anyone else above them is going to show back up or not, figuring out how to take over without overtly violating their vows.
I never bothered to explain the beckoning in character, most the young elders and older ancillae who weren't affected generally tried to keep it a secret that it was happening at all, so only a couple PCs knew it was something that was happening outside of a Harpy's rumor.
There are two elements of "The Beckoning" that first came to me. The first is to think of The Beckoning as all the nobility from D&D suddenly were packing up and leaving. The other way is to think of it as a disease outbreak. The first is a change that won't effect your characters directly, (for a while at least.) The other is a problem that is happening "Over There," that will eventually be directly effecting your campaign. My first thought was that The Beckoning was now calling the high level kindred, but in the end, would be calling all.
You're quite right. To stick with my Middle Ages England theme, this could be very reminiscent of the Black Death suddenly sweeping the slate clean regardless of class or stature.
This is a fantastic video. I like how you make clear that the beckoning is not a mechanic, but a plot device that people should use to enrich their stories and that it is not meant to prevent any stories from happening. Many really don't seem to understand that difference. But not only that, you immediately deliver examples on how to incorporate the beckoning in the stories with various plot hooks.
The beckoning and the gehanna war in general were unfortunate in their descriptions (corebook). It was so much catered towards the middle east and connected with real world conflicts. Pure choices. I know OPP and Chicago began to remedy this poor design choice by making it move in destination with something, whatever it is. Unfortuneately, the topic has not been brought up ever again, what this something is as VtM moved away from worldbuilding, flavour texts and expositions with the recent publications, only cementing the Onxy Path publications as the best in line.
I'm very glad you think so. I think we did excellent work on the World of Darkness, but I'm sure there's some good material in the Renegade offerings too.
Notably, this videos context is why I always prefered Requiem over Masquerade. Not that I dislike Masquerade, I just prefered it more for its lore than running the game. Requiem felt far more freeing for me as a Storyteller.
I've come to appreciate Requiem over Masquerade in the past couple of years.
Thank you, that makes a lot of sense and explains a lot of what Jason Carl did in LA by Night, both in describing the Beckoning as unexplained and unpredictable and, also in using it to remove Isaac Abrams but not the Camarilla elders or the Voormans.
Thank you for this video and your wonderful snakines :D And I agree with what you said about Beckonig as a mistery: "Why did this old lick dissapear?" . It was well executed in the Parliament of Knives, too, but hearing you say it out loud helped to solidify it in my brain. Thanks for that!
Thank you for saying so!
I completely missed your kickstater, but gods damned am I very grateful that you've been doing these videos, revisiting Vampire: the Masquerade. And I shall definitely keep the World Below in mind.
I have an elder in my chronicle who resists the beckoning with an obsessive ambition (and probably spends willpower), he's also terrified of Ur-Shulgi which helps motivate him
I confess our long term group removed the Beckoning and replaced it with a weaker version so those who lost control of themselves would start to be pulled away. That wasn't limited to elders but of course was most likely to effect them due to their ennui/inhumanity. Gave them a reason to force themselves to be active while retaining the idea of a horrible warzone full of skirmishing monsters elsewhere.
That is a really strong idea. I like it a lot!
I think the game is more fun with the elders and methuselah still around. I’ve recently started learning about V20 dark ages and it is quickly becoming my favorite setting for vampire. It’s almost like stepping into a piece of history and folklore. Also it feels more believable than the modern versions. It’s very easy to break the masquerade in a world of smart phones and satellites. Just imagine all the masquerade breaches that have been caught on Google Earth.
And that's why the Inquisition is so damn effective in V5. It's all a question of the flavour you want to go for. If you want a video on the subject, please consider backing The World Below!
yeah Dark Ages is even better than Masquerade. It is sad that Paradox seems to completely ignore this game line
Sweet I'm an old schooler 2nd and old age as well as wraith...
YES YES YES omg I love the gentleman's guide!!!!!! yes perfect timing
Thank you for saying so! Could I interest you in The World Below as well?
@@TheGentlemanGamer definitely! I'm gonna save up so I can get it!
@@Keysandcrystals That's fantastic, thank you! The campaign still has just over two weeks remaining.
Love to see more vtm content. I might not like 5th ed. But ill gladly steal its good parts for my v20 game.
Muwahahaha
My game completely ignored the beckoning. I didn't have need of it and the players never asked.
However, the principle you describe is an important one. I actually did have one player who had been looking at some of the lore regarding one of the alternate Paths and the story of Carna. I had not read about Carna at all at the time, but I gathered something about what she was talking about was a point of contradiction. I reminded her that the lore in Vampire is all told from the perspective of individuals and much of it is contradictory. No lore source can be considered as Truth. Even supposed 'rules' can be... not quite what you might expect them to be. A Vampire table is not Adventurer's League.
Hello sir - been a very long time fan (I remember your old call of Cthulu and Forgotten Realm DnD recaps!) Happy to support your new work with an Artificer pledge! Q. for you...Why in V5 did the Appearance Attribute get replaced? It seems so important a characteristic in a world of vain, shallow, social monsters? Especially because Composure & Resolve seem so interchangeable. Best wishes for continued success and thank you for bringing the Lasombra into the Camarilla - they're my favorite Clan, and I never played Sabbat games so this was a welcome update! - a video talking about the changes to the Ivory Tower I'm sure would be very well received by all!
Thank you so much for the support!
Appearance was removed as a trait as it was barely ever rolled, and appearance is a subjective thing anyway. Matched Chronicles of Darkness, it made more sense to have three resistance Attributes instead.
And I can definitely make a video about the new Camarilla.
I think your words are absolutely understandable. Storytellers should understand exactly what you are saying! It's clear that the Beckoning is meant to be applied specifically for the chronicle that is being run. The Storyteller can, and should, customize the concept for their own benefit and usage. That's what I am doing with it. It's clear to me that this concept is not meant to be a metaplot intended for a non negotiating concept that is all encompassing for ALL elders.
Very interesting to get more insight into V5.
I run an Ashhira game where my players had to run within an endless sands that have lines up of people walking into one direction, whatever their interaction with with simply do not answer, their eyes is hollow, their mouth is open and speak in ancient tongues. My wah’sheen player took it personally as an offense and punch them really really hard to knock them off only to stand up and completely ignore them and keep on walking, until my khayal player have the wrong idea in eaten one of them which resulted in these mindless elders, grow hungry and try to devour him alone with the one he try to eat, which he use obtenebration mixed with potance to break free only to be drowned by many of them . My majnoon player made the best decision by make them completely obfuscated and being able to run away , and I mean far far away .
The GOAT returns.
First Time I heard about this concept I thought " Oh so this is what methuselahs and Ante's using high tier Presence .....or just Summon?" 🤣
That's the mechanical justification!
I’ve been playing VtM since revised edition. I hate V5 for numerous reasons but I do appreciate the lore updates and think the beckoning is a cool idea. The power vacuum and chaos it will create, to me, is the coolest aspect of it. A book should come out that fleshes out the war going on in the Middle East between the Sabbat and all these older or ancient kindred. It could be a really fun time having PCs go join the fight as elders themselves. Several antediluvians rising in an epic climax of destruction.
I have never followed the metaplot exactly but I love to see what the official published plot is and then I tweak it to what I want it to be for my world.
I don't think it is snobbery to be confused by people who feel that they are unable to change things in a rpg. Whether it is in the introduction or in the game master section, every core book says that if you don't like something change it. Change mechanics, change lore, change the setting.....just that whenever you do it to be upfront, consistent, and fair. There will always be at least one player who reads all the books and will want you to implement "canon" that you have chosen to ignore. You just have to explain to them that this is your setting.
Ideally is should be a setting the GM and players communally create, but I do agree!
I'll admit to being guilty of looking for exact dates for things.
I once went looking for one for the Family Reunion. With some help, I managed to narrow it down to within a decade or so. It was actually Ian Watson who gave me the date I ended up using for my world building. He suggested 2012, because that's when Onyx Path was founded. It does make that a VERY busy year for vampires though. XD
Oh yeah, there's no date for the Family Reunion. It happened at some point after 2003, but that's really all there is. It's for you to decide.
To all the story tellers out there that is a very important thing to establish. At your table the lore is your own, in MCU craze parlons you can explain it as a sort of different continuation (or if you are feeling extra spicy/lazy, a "multi-verse" thing). Set the expectation and make it clear that what happens at your table is only canon and need to only be canon to your stories and if players take umbrage to that then I recommend not playing with them. Of course you need to be internally consistent with how things play out, follow your own rules that you set in world, but for a table to work Rule 0 needs to be enforced because otherwise you don't have the power to make the game at all.
Love how you broke this down Matthew. Creativity is very essential is storytelling. The best storytellers we know of these days in the world are ones who have had incredible creativity. I have always been a fan of "make it your own". I would absolutely hate it if I could not change what I needed to in my own writing to produce the material I really wanted to see. That's what freedom is all about, and lack of freedom can hinder creativity. If you don't like something then change it. If you don't know how to change it, then work on developing your creative juices so you can bring out the flavors you really want to taste. It's difficult yes, but that is all apart of the fun. It will make you better in the end, I guarantee it!
I completely agree, and I appreciate you saying so! And of course I should ask, do you think I could convince you to give The World Below on BackerKit your support? www.backerkit.com/c/projects/onyx-path/the-world-below
haha yah I had one game where it became a bloody dungeon crawl, set in detroit, the city is now up for grabs between Camarilla and Anarchs (along with hunters in te middle) player characers have to investigate a seemingly abandoned large house in Highland park detroit. where its rumored to be the demense of a powerful Sabbat elder who was rumored to have been killed by hunters. Then the players find out that the hoouse has very large catacombs underneath it teeming with teh minions of the elder. so you have the kindred player characters(either Camarilla, Anarch, indepenents or all of the above) also characters can play hunters or any other supernatural, I had a group of playres play Hunters who are investigating disappearances from surrounding neighbourhoods. . while the characters were busy trying to survive. Hunters show up to complicate things and both vampires and hunters re forced to team up to survive then the heavilly armed locals of the neighbourhood also show up. the whole thing became a total shit show with the whole area becoming a warzone with a massive mutant ghoul experiment of hte Sabbat elder breaking free and rampaging in the neighourhood like he was godzilla hahha. THen the police get involved later hahaha.
I'm writing a scenario for a city in Brazil and some of the required proximities for it to make sense. In that setting - that hasn't been given more than a couple paragraphs of content, and content that is based solely on bad stereotypes - there aren't as many super old kindred and without the same infrastructure as they would have in North America and in the Old World, a lot of the problems The Beckoning wants to solve do not exist here. There are options of course, one could write as if South America had the same amount of presence and power as the Old World, or if one wants to write a setting without the elder dread, but I see this as quite limiting for a more 'politics-Jihad' chronicle.
Oh yeah, I think the Beckoning (and a lot of Vampire in general) is wholly from a North American / Western European viewpoint.
A Torreador Elder awakens in Chicago. A freighter is chartered to take them from New York City to somewhere in Europe. Your coterie is charged with escorting them cross-country under cover of night in an aged Volkswagen van. Plan a route, keep the van running, and don’t put the Elder into frenzy with a Brujah mixtape.
That's how I always viewed the Beckoning. As a plot device to be used as seen fit. Especially after seeing Helena in CbN. Want elders? Keep them. Don't want them? Remove them. Want only some of them? Keep only some of them and remove the rest. Sure, even below average ST could do it before without the Beckoning but to be given an in-lore plot device to do that is not a bad thing.
I wonder how much it would cost to get him to... not "redo" his series about vampire clans because I want his more mature opinions on a very different setting than the one he talked about so long ago. But maybe I could say "give an update on everything VtM". I would love that.
Ooo it's tempting, but I think you'd be wanting to back at the Explorer level for me to give updates on say... The Hecata, the modern Camarilla, and the Lasombra? That would be a good place to start.
Well, considering how WoD was handled before V5, It's not really a surprise to see storytellers complaining about clear metaplot definitions. That's how they were fed from previous editions and that's the kind of player and STs the setting has attracted since the beginning of time.
Oh I agree. It was especially written into Revised edition that way.
Have you checked out Curseborne yet? www.kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/curseborne-tabletop-roleplaying-game
in my mind people complaining about metaplot is not unlike, say, complaining about the faerun setting in D&D. yes, its somewhat of a "cannon" setting, but all these books and rule sets are more like toolboxes than lawbooks. they are simply here for inspiration. dont like the metaplot? you can just disregard it entirely and just use the rules, you dont even have to use all of the rules! just pick and mix what you like. tabletop games are there for you to use your own imagination, supplemented with a book of ideas, not rules.
I find it harder to write a D&D than a Vampire story. Granted, Vampire needs more upfront preparation before the campaign starts: Creating the important NPCs, their motivations and goals, and a general idea the story would bend without the PCs, but after that, you just need to be good at keeping a holistic perspective to be able to react to almost anything the players would come up with. In D&D, if playersgo off plot, then you are in a valley of pain. Creating mid to high level NPCs takes forever. It is not just stats, but also equipment to consider. I hate D&D.
@@1nf0calypse Have you given Curseborne a go yet using the Ashcan Edition?
Cannot believe my eyes and ears! Think anything of me but I do like Vampire The Masquerade universe.
Oh I do too, not to worry! Can I interest you in The World Below universe?
@@TheGentlemanGamerI am very reluctant to try anything new. Most of the tabletops I got into were through video games. And damn do I like video games as a medium. The world below needs a video game at some point. Doesn't have to be high budget. Just something indie with cool art and gameplay mechanics. Msybe even a card game?
@@Pavel-wj7gy You never know! It's more likely we can make additional games if the RPG does well, as it's the source material. So even backing for just the PDF is helpful.
In regards to the video request option, I would rather ask first:
The topic I would love to hear you talk about would be "WoD connected".
What I mean by that is simply how all the different things connects. Spirits from Werewolf with spirits from Mage, what is the relation between Triad and Fallen, etc. Preferably with focus on "pregistory". What happened when, was War of Rage before the time of Enoch or after, etc.
I am blabbering, but what I meant to ask is, would such topic even be manageable? And would you be willing to make it (after the afore mentioned backing)?
I'd happily make a video on how to connect elements of the World of Darkness together, though connecting Enoch, the War of Rage, etc. isn't terribly easy, as they each position the world in an utterly different way - even more so than the cosmology in the modern era. If you can narrow down what you want and make your pledge, I'll make a video!
Very interesting.
@@TheGentlemanGamer Hard to narrow it down, as I am interested in the broad picture, and after that connect it to even broader one in an ExWoD (fan created Exalted in World of Darkness ruleset) :-)
I will try to think about something more specific, but it's hard, when my interest lies in cosmology and the eternal question Which creation myth is the correct one:-)
@@DrengCZ Ah I see! Well there's the trouble with myths: none and all of them are correct.
@@TheGentlemanGamer Well, even though I love the general idea of Its all somehow true, that IMHO works only if it "only" the mythos.
But wanting to explore those things closer, one might even say get involved, than some cleaner idea of how things transpired would be gr8.
Buy I am not even sure, if that is possible to deduce solely based on official lore. That's basically what I would like to see. The official truth of the WoD.
And just to be clear, from Gentleman, surely not from that bloke who (I think) worked some time for Black Dog Game Factory, that would be just one-sided propaganda;-)
Conveniently, Cristoph Romuald and his coterie were removed from the metaplot with the beckoning. 😢
They can be if you want! Some of them are still around as of Beckett's Jyhad Diary, and one is even mentioned in Cults of the Blood Gods if I recall.
@@TheGentlemanGamerit was probably for the better
Just seems like a drastic solution to the wrong problem (i.e., setting neophyte chronicles in territories with a lot of old, powerful vampires and expecting to change the world)
As a still "V20 main" longtime ST who is also working on my own "v20 inspired" ttrpg, what I don't like the most about the beckoning is the ripple effect it had on the mechanics in general. there are no 6+ level powers anymore in v5 - because players aren't supposed to play low gen vamps anymore (for some reason. if the table has fun at it, it is a valid playstyle) and elders are (more or less) gone and the system is supposed to be streetlevel. but either for npcs or "elder games", I think the level 6+ powers being cut out was an wrong decision. having powers the average/standard PC cannot have simply because of their generation was something, that made the elders special/better NPCs. V5 is worse than it could be because of it. and I have the feeling that step was mainly done with the beckoning in mind, making mechanics for elders "less important". at least the newest release (the gehenna war) tried to correct that mistake to a degree, but it still lingers.
Have you checked out Curseborne yet? www.kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/curseborne-tabletop-roleplaying-game
Not gonna Lie I missed these.
That's very kind of you, thank you. Do you think I could interest you in backing The World Below?
I really dislike the beckoning for several reasons. I think it cheapens the kindred curse of living forever. Both the horror of it and very idea of eternal unlife. I alao agree that NPCs are only as powerful or disruptive as the the storyteller allows them to be. I also really enjoyed reading about the elder npcs and having a rich background of characters to use in games if the need arises. I personally loved the metaplot.
$60 is a small price to pay to slap those golden handcuffs back on
Now I'm scared...
If I’m interested in cross WOD game, what v5 book should I read?
There, Gentleman, I watched this vídeo after being recomended for the twelth time, now stop beckoning me
@@meistersalomon I'll beckon you all I like!
Everything is in the Universe.
another scenario I had also set in Detroit in the late 80s. was a hunter adventure in a similiar area with the characters being hunters embeded within the ATF in a large detroit police raid with ATF and FBI raiding a drug lord who turns out to be the thrall of a large sabbat pack. in turns into a shit show as the sabbat pack fights back also a surprise is that one of the FBI agents is actually a enhanced NWO assasin with back up Hit marks. who wants to kill all the Sabbat pack members and destroy any evidence of his dealings with his boss. I also threw in a COPS tv show crew embeded in the Police raid. The scenario produced an artifact videos which showed the strange events of the raid which killed like 20 law enforcement officers(like a found footage horror movie) which is actively suppressed by teh technocracy whenever it shows up. Despite having police informts, the Sabbat pack got too cocky ruling its turf and thought it cna handle the raid. I also threw in a Brujah antitribu abomination in the pack to spice things up haha
Superb. I always enjoyed running games in Detroit, myself. It's a rich setting.
@@TheGentlemanGamer Its like the wild west anarchic place.
Being the Prince of some small city where your biggest problem is the occasional Anarch passing through and suddenly you have to play host to half a dozen incomprehensibly powerful elders (both in personal and political power, either of which can throw the entire continent into turmoil in but a few nights) sounds like the closest Vampire will get to being a sitcom.
The people needed you
What if I already backed World Below before you made this video?
Then you have my gratitude, and I'll definitely read your video suggestion and consider it, but this scheme is a method to attract even more backers - so I won't make any guarantees!
If I already backed for the nice leatherbound book and fancy dice beforehand do I still get a video? Haha 😆
Super excited to see another Vampire video on the channel and very much so for The World Below too! It hits basically every one of my boxes, or at least my buzz words, and I have every confidence in you sir (and the team).
Your generous support is greatly appreciated, and by all means suggest a video, but I'll give precedence to anyone who backs this week in the BackerKit lull!
😊
I could feel the aggravated willpower damage being dealt to you when talking about people that want rigid rules for Metaplot while also complaining such rules ruin their chronicles. lol I thought the V20 approach of picking and choosing what parts of the meta plot featured in the book is relevant for a gaming group was a core part of VTM and carried over to V5. This has been a debate in the community since V5 started and you've basically just stated the obvious for all us V5 fans. It is perplexing that it has to be stated at all. That said, V20 has always been there for people that prefer that system and the state the metaplot was at. They are free to pick and choose what parts of V5 to carry over to V20. That has always been an option. So its not like Paradox came along and forced everyone to adopt everything about V5.
Obvious to some but not to others! There are a few people in these comments who are of the opinion that by not setting everything in stone we were being wishy washy, which just isn't true.
Would an 800 year old tenth generation vampire be subject to the beckoning?
That's up to the Storyteller! I'd say yes, unless there's a good plot reason for them to not.
@@TheGentlemanGamer Cool. I thought in rules , only 9th gen and lower got beckoned. G you think a 300 year old 12th gen would get summoned or no? I have 2 characters' one my dark age character and another one
@@isildurelendurion1822 No, I'd say not.
Thanks. Do you think that is because a 12th generation vampire's blood is too weak for one of the ancients?
Oh interest Ed Greenwood.
Well… if I’m supposed to fill in a bunch of details, what am I paying you guys for?
To give you the ideas so you can tell stories with them. If you want something provided with zero flexibility, read a novel or watch a movie.
I was born in 96, Im exhausted by the move towards street level game play with top down design. I feel like the point of ttrpg is to use imagination, surely just more content to use with advisory labels would be enough, why does so much seem to need to be mandated of how to play
nice, reasoned explanation. doesn't matter....i STILL hate that the game has been GUTTED of half of what made it interesting in the first place. not that anyone will care.
Check out Curseborne instead! www.kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/curseborne-tabletop-roleplaying-game
But what about game play i don't like this luck dice for hunger; that's what drove me away.
If you want a video about Hunger, please let me know when you've backed The World Below!
While I agree that a Storyteller should be making effort to change the setting so the story they want to tell works, I think you've missed an important aspect: New Storytellers and why they use premade chronicles.
It's your first time running a ttrpg and you want everyone to have fun. Their ability falls on your shoulders. You prepped and had your session 0. But you don't know what you are doing. So you run it as close to the chronicle's beats as possible. Ignoring the sidebars and keeping it as simple as possible. Great news! Everyone loved it and want to play next week at the same time. So you do the same thing again. It goes great again! And so on.
This new Storyteller has inadvertently created a feedback loop of staying close to the books and needing strict rules for the lore. All because they wanted their friends to have fun and developed tunnel vision independent of what you put into the books beside the main story beats. As well as creating the mindset that they can only run a good game if they stay consistent with the world and premade stories.
Also this ignores that having your personal chronical fit into the greater Lore/story of what is happening can create a sense of community and mutual understanding with people you've never played with but share the same world with. It is a very strong feeling. It makes Storyteller games feel more like a community than other ttrpgs and I think there are a lot of people who crave that.
I completely agree with you that premade chronicles are useful for new Storytellers and that many will follow them to the letter, but it's in advice like I give in this video, and appears throughout books, that Storytellers can learn to go "off page" and not get stuck in the feedback loop you mentioned.
It's impossible to write a chronicle that can truly cater to every possible character and player, so there needs to be some linearity and dominant NPCs, but the trick Storytellers new and old need to learn is that the chronicle only becomes truly memorable and important when they start ignoring the strict details and start adding their own material based on the protagonists.
I've been worried the Beckoning isn't really going anywhere, but solely there for gameplay balancing. Is there a proper plan for where this story-arch is going? I don't hate it; in fact, I believe that the mystery surrounding it is absolutely necessary.
I think it's best to stay away from those big, over-the-top events (week of nightmares...) and have the world be more down to earth, as it were. We don't want another Warhammer, where everything has to be bigger and louder than what preceded it. That's a no end sink-hole, and maybe why we are here at V5 to begin with(?). Politics, mystery and personal horror is what it's about, right.
I couldn't tell you if the Beckoning will be detailed further in V5, as I no longer work on the game! I hope so.
@@TheGentlemanGamer That's fair. I guess I was just thinking out loud.
Are you working in any official capacity with VtM, e.g. Writing novels?
@@Welther47 Not any more! I left that world behind to work on games I enjoy more.
Never been a fan of v5, and even less of The Beckoning. This video simply filled in some guesses with answers for me.
Now the tips on how to play with The Beckoning was good ones, but polishing a turd as they say...
Great Video 👍
We worked with the material we had! And sometimes they were indeed turds. Now, do you think I could interest you in supporting the BackerKit campaign for The World Below?
I have no problem with the beckoning as a concept. The problem is that it breaks verisimilitude. Thousands of elders from all different backgrounds and philosophies are gone but supposedly together and in some sort of nebulous void and it has no effect on the setting? That’s a lot of power in one place and no one has any idea and there are no obvious signs of what is happening. It just puts to much suspension of disbelief on the game that it just doesn’t work. If you want them to be gone that’s fine but at least make it make sense. It’s just one big deus ex in a long list of them that makes the lore of V5 a bit of a joke.
I think his point of "you ran it that way" is the answer.
Tabletop games aren't a Novel. It's just a tool. It has exactly as much impact on your game and setting as you make it. Don't like it? Don't use it. Think it needs to have an impact? Make it have an impact. The power is all yours. You are supposed to fill in the gaps.
Not sure I can agree at all about there being any issues with suspension of disbelief. A ton of demi-gods are off doing something that none of us lesser beings understand? That's like 3/4 of the whole setting.
Now, I also dislike V5. But it's mostly because of what they did to Bloodlines and Diciplines.
It does have an effect on the setting though, by their absence.
@@Michael-bn1oi As I knew we weren't going to get clan write-ups for the bloodlines, the Loresheet version was genuinely my best attempt at having them in the game. Without those, you wouldn't have them at all!
@@TheGentlemanGamer The Loresheets are certainly interesting, and I've absolutely cannibalized them for all that juicy content. But combined with the Dicipline changes my players simply didn't have much interest. They would rather do V20 where they can be exactly whatever weirdo Bloodline they want, with whatever weirdo Diciplines it has (depending on the chronicle I'm running. Always going to be at least one or two off limits clans/bloodlines)
We use the Humanity and Hunger systems from V5 as well. It's incredibly mechanically solid, it's just missing whatever little something makes V20 special for my group. But every group wants different stuff from a game/setting/table
@@Michael-bn1oi I get that completely. Likewise, I run Vampire: The Requiem 2e predominantly as it does everything I want a Vampire game to do. But there are bits and pieces I take from elsewhere all the time.
So if i understand this correctly its a GM tool to throw away the metaplot? Wouldnt it be easer to just set a disclamer "metaplot is not be all end all and as a gm feel free to change/ignore it" for those that do not know that?
All metaplot is a GM tool. It's a metaplot event you can use as severely or as lightly as you choose. You want all methuselahs gone? Do it. You want 3% of them gone? Do it. It's a tool for Storytellers to use to change the status quo of the game setting.
I would suggest that "metaplot is not be all end all and as a gm feel free to change/ignore it" is implicit, but not everyone seems to realise. Yet, stating it in the front of every book would be wasting word count for people who are already aware. You can't win.
@@TheGentlemanGamer Thank you for the answer.
I cant say i fully buy it. There is a lot of unnecessary disclaimers in the book. The biggest autrage as i feel it was that the beconing now would seem mandatory so the same people that felt powerless because of the elders now would feel the need to get rid of all of them and complain they cant use elders anymore ;-)
@@jackmalin2528 I do disagree there, as it should be clear in all the V5 books that there are still elders around and only some have disappeared. Chicago by Night explains ways some elders have staved off the pull. Cults of the Blood Gods even establishes that an entire clan was unaffected. So the information is there, but I suspect a lot of folks just take it at face value.
@The Gentleman Gamer would love to see you do some videos on aberrant. white wolfs lost child. cant back anything. am poor. i dont have 10 cents to donate let alone enough to donate enough for any kind of status. lol. i do hope the world below gets funded though. but aberrant is so good. and most people dont even know about it. let alone how amazing it is. its seriously my favorite white wolf setting. its my happy place.
And there's a new edition of Aberrant out by Onyx Path, as White Wolf haven't owned it for over ten years!
@@TheGentlemanGamer interesting will have to check that out. is it just the core book or did they make supplementals?
@@KagaiYami Supplements as well. There's a lot of Aberrant material out over the last four or five years. Just search for it on Google or DriveThruRPG.
@@TheGentlemanGamer that is awesome. thanks a lot. really appreciate it. might have to wait for a good sale. but ill be tryin to get em. lol.
You're right that DnD can be more complex than just kill the monster, grab the stuff. My first and only cleric is possessed by part of a vampire god 😂
But yeah, writing a game for VTM is way harder, so far.
Writing a mystery for my first ever game. Never played it before , but I hope someone in my group eventually does because I've been itching to play a Gangrel for years!
Well if you need any help, just ask here! And I believe you've already backed The World Below, but if not, do so and I'll make a video on structuring a Vampire mystery.
@@TheGentlemanGamer Cartographer, I think it was. I've got the ending and a bunch of moving parts, so to speak.ight cut some NPCs, I don't think it needs primogen from every clan to be available, now I think on it. Got a couple of red herrings as it would be a little too easy without any.
Got a few sessions worth done, getting near the midway point now. Unfortunately, I have OCD, so my brain is demanding super detailed parts, kinda like if statements in computer programming IE "if this, then that, else other". I know I can't anticipate everything, but if I get the most likely outcomes done, I feel I'd be better prepared. The rest of it I can improvise. Knowing the group well helps.
I learned not to hide important clues behind dice rolls as players can have a bad night and if that happens, the biggest clues are gone and that's said to be something to avoid doing. One of the players is giving the game one last chance because of bad experiences, so my aim is to justify that trust. And 2 are wholly new. Luckily, I have one player who is well versed in Vampire and knows his stuff very well.
I'll be doing a session 0 with them, explaining things in and out of character to give them a feel for it, a 1 to 1 with their sires, using that as the way to explain the basics and feel for the game.