Easily one of the most thought-provoking films of the year! Super interested to hear your thoughts and happy to answer your questions, lemme know below
@bphifer that's an excellent point, it's a clever detail on the iterations theme. I think there was actually one more comic reference later in the film, I forget what Reed referenced, but Paxton mentioned Swamp Thing. It's a really intricate script and super happy you enjoyed the analysis, thank you!!
I did have the thought at the end when Sister Barnes comes back to life where I was like, “Oh, yeah that was for sure a miracle. That’s the only word for it after she was lifeless for so long” I don’t consider myself a religious person necessarily, but a miracle is a miracle. I loved this movie and your video! You never cease to amaze me with your analyses! Keep doing great film work brother!
I was one of the people that requested this, thank you! I’m on the side that believes that Paxton is alive and that the butterfly is a symbol that moving forward she is going to question her religion
Yeah I remember you reaching out, thanks so much! This video definitely was a must, especially considering all of the plausible possible interpretations of the ending like yours, the conversation is endless
I really liked this take. Especially around the ending. The first time I saw it, I assumed Barnes had a rush of adrenaline before dying when she intervened and that Paxton hallucinated the butterfly. I was surprised when someone explained the interpretation that this was all Paxton's dying imagination. And that viewers would only believe it was either a miraculous ending with divine intervention or her dying images. I liked that you weren't black and white and came up with four alternatives.
Impressive analysis, Lucas Blue. Looking forward to your next upload! I smashed that thumbs up button on your video. Keep up the fantastic work. The exploration of faith and doubt in "Heretic" is thought-provoking. How do you think the filmmakers balance the portrayal of religious beliefs with their critique of them throughout the narrative?
Great analysis. I want to know how Reed would have pulled off his little charade and switched the bodies if the elder hadn’t rang the doorbell at just the right time. The trick only works with misdirection and distraction. I love that Paxton stood strong in her faith at the end, I agree that praying for someone whether it helps or not is a beautiful thing to do.
Hi Lucas! I've been waiting for your review. I absolutely love your insight and when I saw the movie, I knew you were going to have some interesting comments. I'm an exmormon who was fully believing until I left 5 years ago at 50yo. I love everything you said about Paxton. I could relate to her character so much! I didn't serve a mission (it wasn't encouraged as much for young women when I was that age). However, I was very vocal about my beliefs and vehemently defended the church my whole life. I've heard some other reviews of the film that didn't get how Paxton could seemingly "flip" from being a true believer one moment, to being so nuanced the next. I love that you caught the nuances early on. Growing up in mormonism myself, I can say that you are spot on about how young people growing up in "high demand religions" can and do have the same curiosities about normal things like sex. It's important to point out that Paxton has cognitive dissonance about what she was watching (sex being a normal human function) and her guilt over watching a porno, which would be considered sinful. The way she was able to settle this in her mind was to find a "lesson" in it and deflect the guilt onto the actress in the film. Fascinating writing! As a true believing mormon for 50 years, I know what it means to cling to your faith, even when there are so many parts of the religion that don't make sense. When your whole family is mormon, there's a lot at stake by questioning, so you just don't. I can clearly see that Paxton has those questions, but pushed them down and clung to the narrative of "if all these people believe it, it must be true". Once I knew it wasn't true, the Jenga tower fell very quickly because it was precariously unsteady all along. I was curious what your thoughts are about the fact that both doors lead to the same place. Is there some symbolism there?
There's two particular pieces of dialog that are crucial for the films conclusion that you didn't really touch on. In fact, most reviews/analysis don't touch on them much. First there is the fast food comparison in the living room. Reed asks them what their favorite fast food is, they generally agree on Wendy's being the best, and he says be spent a lot of time studying in hopes of finding the "Wendy's of religions." He asks them well what about Taco Bell? To which Barnes replies "We don't talk about Taco Bell." Later on in the basement after the supposed prophet ressurects and repeats the script, Barnes argues that what she described wasn't a lack of an afterlife necessarily, but more of a near death experience. She explains that when she was very young she was legally dead for a few minutes after an ecoli outbreak from eating Taco bell, and that the prophet's statement is essentially what she experienced in her near death experience as her brain was starting to shut down. Also the picture of Dante's Inferno is more important than just a reference, for anyone who knows how that story goes. All of these things culminate to Paxton ultimately dying in the basement with the others. When Reed is crawling to her as he's bleeding out he tells her "pray for us" in a mocking sense. When he goes to put the knife to her neck, he's not crawling to god in a last moment of desperation or terror, he's simply trying to rob Paxton of her moment of comfort in his way of "proving" prayer doesn'tphysicallydo anything. I think their dialog about the prayers experiment further confirms that. They all died down there. Reed did stab her and they both Bled out. What we as the audience are seeing from the time Barnes attacks Reed, to the final shot of the butterfly vanishing, is Paxton's near death experience as her brain is shutting down. The outside even feels so snowy and fuzzy and sort of dream like. Not to mention that it's incredibly implausible that Reed would've actually put the only escape physically into the model of his home, which is in the open. Whether someone thinks she goes to heaven or not after the fact isn't really relevant, but I do think it is factual that they all died down there.
I thought in the movie, Paxton said she would land on the tip of their finger and specifically says "not the hand, but the finger." I only saw it once so I may be wrong but I took the butterfly landing on her hand at the end to be very subjective. She could take it as a sign that the butterfly was her companion Barnes but it didn't land on her finger tip or even her finger, it was only her hand so it could also be taken as a coincidence. I also noticed that there was snow on the ground, and butterflies are not around in the winter so I also took that as a sign that this might be imagined and not reality.
I grew up Mormon (been Atheist for 25 years now) and there were really only two inaccuracies about Mormons. The first is the butterfly thing - it works well for the story, but Mormons DO NOT believe in any form of reincarnation, just resurrection with your original body. The other is that there was a 45-year old missionary walking around with no companion. The Topher Grace character should have been what's called a "Mission President". I thought it was a great movie.
*Mission presidents typically do serve together with their wives, but they are not required to ALWAYS be together with their companion like missionaries are.
The name Barnes has a couple of Old English meanings. I think the variation that means "warrior" fits very well. Paxton's name means peaceful town. I think these names reflect their personalities well. The girls are trapped in Mr. Reed's home which symbolizes a microcosm of the world and it's most important choices. Mr. Reed uses the grand design of the home and his manipulation skills to lead Sister Paxton right to where he wants her. Mr. Reed fancies himself a God. Paxton denying Mr. Reed's offer of a life of servitude to him and jamming a letter opener in his neck is the movie's way of showing that Paxton obtains free will and is not predetermined by Mr. Reed's grand plan. Sister Barnes saving the day with the board that has three nails in it in the shape of a triangle is meant to be left up in the air as to whether this was proof of a miracle or not. The three nails in the board that make a triangle represent the holy trinity (father, son, holy spirit) and potentially twists the interpretation of the scene as an angel killing the false god with a holy weapon. I think the movie does an ok job at showing how belief can be a double-edged sword. In one hand it can make you feel good in seemingly hopeless situations but the consequences of a life of faith are more than just that. It's a decision that puts other's judgments above your own. Obedience is the standard of the good for any religion. It does this by putting dogma above ones own judgment. The end result of any political system that's governed by a religion (theocracies) is authoritarianism. Usually in the form of a dictatorship or monarchy.
I might be reaching, but that final scene of Sister Paxton escaping Mr. Reed's house reminds me of Coraline escaping through the tunnel and away from the Other Mother. Both of the shots/scenes look eerily similar (the tunnel is dark, dirty, and dusty). Also, in my belief or interpretation, I don't think that neither Sister Paxton nor Coraline escaped from the tunnel. I strongly believe that both of them are dead, and we are just seeing a fantasy of them escaping. Like I said, I might be reaching, but I'm standing by my own comment. But, let me know what you all believe and / or think about this theory. I would love to read your comments ! Lastly, Lucas Blue, your videos are amazing ! Have a great day, everyone !
Did like the movie, but I don't think the point of the movie is really about debating religious beliefs since Mr. Reed was never actually curious about it and was just leading the two women along. It feels more like someone who recently became an atheist using surface level argument skills like pointing out how similar Jesus is to Horus, Krishna, Dionysus, when you look into the actual history of those myths, there are hardly any similarities such as the claim they were all born on December 25th or how one was born from a rock, not a virgin.
And religious people will always find a way to diminish examinations while offering nothing substantive to fortify their beliefs of higher beings aside from arguing a particular sect's minutae
Well put, this gets a sub for sure. part of me hopes it was real, the other part of me felt like it was that "generic" story about what people see after death and that it's all a hallucination your brain creates. I have to watch it a few more times and see if i notice any other details. i feel like they showed that window multiple times on purpose to show how deep it was and how hard it would be to squeeze through, even if you could break the multiple layers. did you notice the expressions on his face as he is crawling to her? it almost looked like he was mad at her and crawling to her to silence her for praying for him. its right after she has an epiphany about prayer and religion.
I think most of the points here are very good. Having said that, I am bothered by our level of jaded thinking by fully overlooking in every discussion the fact that the candle nearly goes out when Barnes get near and that it won't work at all when she is trying to start the match endlessly; however, when Hugh Grant strikes the match oncd, it works. Barnes is part of a mission to serve and doesn't know she is being used. The idea here hasn't been explored. The ultimate irony here is that Hugh Grant is trying to play God and is killing missionaries through his own lack of faith, the manic search for fact, proving a justification for "belief". The irony is that Barnes is already the one with strong intellectual understanding and has wonderful strengths in her belief. She; however, is the heroine in the film because she is and has been working in the spiritual realm, having come back from being dead, a part of the spiritual world while not truly realizing it. So she is wrong about what her reality is. The movie is disarming because it demonstrates that we likely are living on the opposite side of the door and what we experience as "lack of proof", in ability to demonstrate fact of God, is precisely how it is intended to demonstrate belief. This is demonstrated in the conclusion when she is on the brink of death. She is seeing the butterfly, which we see as her brain dying and releasing all its chemicals and endorphins, but on the spiritual door, which if the flame, that is essentially being ignored by everyone, is symbolic of how we ignore evidence of God. While he saw it, he still denied it...denying evidence of God for the practice of being angry, jaded and evil. So there is a great likelihood, according to the writers, that physical death being a short door to a infinite life is the greater evidence of reality, the reality we can't see at all in our own world. I think you get it right but ignore the flame, which is the true evidence of there being another dimension, not Barnes coming back from near death or any of the other machinations. The flame is the evidence of whether Paxton spiritually lives after death and whether the butterfly is her dying brain or the door to spiritual reality. Believing anything else is still jaded.
Any shock or terror from this film is mainly derived from those with whom religion and those nagging logic and reason problems persist in their lives. Oddly this film is about not religion as a whole verses atheism, but mormonism as an example most easily ridiculed by other religious sects who ironically are blind to their own absurdity. The end was a nod to the non answered question enabling the film to be sold as thought provoking instead of antireligious. Have no doubt, whatever the brevity of Reid's arguments, none of the girl's retorts survive scrutiny. "He has the head of a bird" is not an argument diminishing her own incredulously gullible beliefs
Easily one of the most thought-provoking films of the year! Super interested to hear your thoughts and happy to answer your questions, lemme know below
Great review man! My thought on the spider man quote and Mr. Reeds response was further evidence of various iterations.
@bphifer that's an excellent point, it's a clever detail on the iterations theme. I think there was actually one more comic reference later in the film, I forget what Reed referenced, but Paxton mentioned Swamp Thing. It's a really intricate script and super happy you enjoyed the analysis, thank you!!
@@lucasblue20 yeah man, you got a new subscriber and I’ve watched several since this one
@@bphifer thank you so much!! Plenty more content to come!
What a fantastic breakdown of the film. I’m an active member of the church dedicated and found your analysis spot on.
I did have the thought at the end when Sister Barnes comes back to life where I was like, “Oh, yeah that was for sure a miracle. That’s the only word for it after she was lifeless for so long” I don’t consider myself a religious person necessarily, but a miracle is a miracle. I loved this movie and your video! You never cease to amaze me with your analyses! Keep doing great film work brother!
I was one of the people that requested this, thank you!
I’m on the side that believes that Paxton is alive and that the butterfly is a symbol that moving forward she is going to question her religion
Yeah. I think she survived and contacted the police to save the other prophets.
Yeah I remember you reaching out, thanks so much! This video definitely was a must, especially considering all of the plausible possible interpretations of the ending like yours, the conversation is endless
Such a fascinating video and absolutely love your breakdown of the ending! Thank you!!
Super thrilled to hear this, thank you so much, yeah the ending felt so open-ended so I'm really happy to hear that my ideas connected with you
I really liked this take. Especially around the ending. The first time I saw it, I assumed Barnes had a rush of adrenaline before dying when she intervened and that Paxton hallucinated the butterfly. I was surprised when someone explained the interpretation that this was all Paxton's dying imagination. And that viewers would only believe it was either a miraculous ending with divine intervention or her dying images. I liked that you weren't black and white and came up with four alternatives.
YES!!! I was waiting for this and you never miss! Thank you!
Sooo glad to see you saw it and super happy I could deliver, really means a lot!!
Thank you - this was the best interpretation of this film that I have heard so far! You cleared up a lot for me.
Impressive analysis, Lucas Blue. Looking forward to your next upload! I smashed that thumbs up button on your video. Keep up the fantastic work. The exploration of faith and doubt in "Heretic" is thought-provoking. How do you think the filmmakers balance the portrayal of religious beliefs with their critique of them throughout the narrative?
Very good analysis. The ultimate theme is what do we believe and why. It is very complex and intriguing. The ambiguity of the ending drives this home.
Great analysis. I want to know how Reed would have pulled off his little charade and switched the bodies if the elder hadn’t rang the doorbell at just the right time. The trick only works with misdirection and distraction. I love that Paxton stood strong in her faith at the end, I agree that praying for someone whether it helps or not is a beautiful thing to do.
I really enjoyed listening to this take. Very well thought out
Hi Lucas! I've been waiting for your review. I absolutely love your insight and when I saw the movie, I knew you were going to have some interesting comments.
I'm an exmormon who was fully believing until I left 5 years ago at 50yo. I love everything you said about Paxton. I could relate to her character so much! I didn't serve a mission (it wasn't encouraged as much for young women when I was that age). However, I was very vocal about my beliefs and vehemently defended the church my whole life.
I've heard some other reviews of the film that didn't get how Paxton could seemingly "flip" from being a true believer one moment, to being so nuanced the next. I love that you caught the nuances early on. Growing up in mormonism myself, I can say that you are spot on about how young people growing up in "high demand religions" can and do have the same curiosities about normal things like sex.
It's important to point out that Paxton has cognitive dissonance about what she was watching (sex being a normal human function) and her guilt over watching a porno, which would be considered sinful. The way she was able to settle this in her mind was to find a "lesson" in it and deflect the guilt onto the actress in the film. Fascinating writing!
As a true believing mormon for 50 years, I know what it means to cling to your faith, even when there are so many parts of the religion that don't make sense. When your whole family is mormon, there's a lot at stake by questioning, so you just don't. I can clearly see that Paxton has those questions, but pushed them down and clung to the narrative of "if all these people believe it, it must be true". Once I knew it wasn't true, the Jenga tower fell very quickly because it was precariously unsteady all along.
I was curious what your thoughts are about the fact that both doors lead to the same place. Is there some symbolism there?
To me it said it doesn't matter what you believe, there is nothing after. Believing there is nothing after allows Reed to do evil things.
Great work brother!
Great review! Such a good movie
I was hoping you would do this movie
There's two particular pieces of dialog that are crucial for the films conclusion that you didn't really touch on. In fact, most reviews/analysis don't touch on them much. First there is the fast food comparison in the living room. Reed asks them what their favorite fast food is, they generally agree on Wendy's being the best, and he says be spent a lot of time studying in hopes of finding the "Wendy's of religions." He asks them well what about Taco Bell? To which Barnes replies "We don't talk about Taco Bell."
Later on in the basement after the supposed prophet ressurects and repeats the script, Barnes argues that what she described wasn't a lack of an afterlife necessarily, but more of a near death experience. She explains that when she was very young she was legally dead for a few minutes after an ecoli outbreak from eating Taco bell, and that the prophet's statement is essentially what she experienced in her near death experience as her brain was starting to shut down.
Also the picture of Dante's Inferno is more important than just a reference, for anyone who knows how that story goes.
All of these things culminate to Paxton ultimately dying in the basement with the others. When Reed is crawling to her as he's bleeding out he tells her "pray for us" in a mocking sense. When he goes to put the knife to her neck, he's not crawling to god in a last moment of desperation or terror, he's simply trying to rob Paxton of her moment of comfort in his way of "proving" prayer doesn'tphysicallydo anything. I think their dialog about the prayers experiment further confirms that.
They all died down there. Reed did stab her and they both Bled out. What we as the audience are seeing from the time Barnes attacks Reed, to the final shot of the butterfly vanishing, is Paxton's near death experience as her brain is shutting down. The outside even feels so snowy and fuzzy and sort of dream like. Not to mention that it's incredibly implausible that Reed would've actually put the only escape physically into the model of his home, which is in the open.
Whether someone thinks she goes to heaven or not after the fact isn't really relevant, but I do think it is factual that they all died down there.
I thought in the movie, Paxton said she would land on the tip of their finger and specifically says "not the hand, but the finger." I only saw it once so I may be wrong but I took the butterfly landing on her hand at the end to be very subjective. She could take it as a sign that the butterfly was her companion Barnes but it didn't land on her finger tip or even her finger, it was only her hand so it could also be taken as a coincidence.
I also noticed that there was snow on the ground, and butterflies are not around in the winter so I also took that as a sign that this might be imagined and not reality.
At the end, it doesn't matter. It's just what you believe 😅. But the movie was fked up once they got down to the basement
I grew up Mormon (been Atheist for 25 years now) and there were really only two inaccuracies about Mormons. The first is the butterfly thing - it works well for the story, but Mormons DO NOT believe in any form of reincarnation, just resurrection with your original body. The other is that there was a 45-year old missionary walking around with no companion. The Topher Grace character should have been what's called a "Mission President". I thought it was a great movie.
*Mission presidents typically do serve together with their wives, but they are not required to ALWAYS be together with their companion like missionaries are.
Paxton is actually the one who spews word salad. Reed was very clear with his points.
The name Barnes has a couple of Old English meanings. I think the variation that means "warrior" fits very well. Paxton's name means peaceful town. I think these names reflect their personalities well.
The girls are trapped in Mr. Reed's home which symbolizes a microcosm of the world and it's most important choices. Mr. Reed uses the grand design of the home and his manipulation skills to lead Sister Paxton right to where he wants her. Mr. Reed fancies himself a God.
Paxton denying Mr. Reed's offer of a life of servitude to him and jamming a letter opener in his neck is the movie's way of showing that Paxton obtains free will and is not predetermined by Mr. Reed's grand plan.
Sister Barnes saving the day with the board that has three nails in it in the shape of a triangle is meant to be left up in the air as to whether this was proof of a miracle or not. The three nails in the board that make a triangle represent the holy trinity (father, son, holy spirit) and potentially twists the interpretation of the scene as an angel killing the false god with a holy weapon.
I think the movie does an ok job at showing how belief can be a double-edged sword. In one hand it can make you feel good in seemingly hopeless situations but the consequences of a life of faith are more than just that. It's a decision that puts other's judgments above your own. Obedience is the standard of the good for any religion. It does this by putting dogma above ones own judgment. The end result of any political system that's governed by a religion (theocracies) is authoritarianism. Usually in the form of a dictatorship or monarchy.
I might be reaching, but that final scene of Sister Paxton escaping Mr. Reed's house reminds me of Coraline escaping through the tunnel and away from the Other Mother. Both of the shots/scenes look eerily similar (the tunnel is dark, dirty, and dusty). Also, in my belief or interpretation, I don't think that neither Sister Paxton nor Coraline escaped from the tunnel. I strongly believe that both of them are dead, and we are just seeing a fantasy of them escaping. Like I said, I might be reaching, but I'm standing by my own comment. But, let me know what you all believe and / or think about this theory. I would love to read your comments ! Lastly, Lucas Blue, your videos are amazing ! Have a great day, everyone !
I just saw this movie a couple of hours ago, and I wanted to see your thoughts on it!
Did like the movie, but I don't think the point of the movie is really about debating religious beliefs since Mr. Reed was never actually curious about it and was just leading the two women along. It feels more like someone who recently became an atheist using surface level argument skills like pointing out how similar Jesus is to Horus, Krishna, Dionysus, when you look into the actual history of those myths, there are hardly any similarities such as the claim they were all born on December 25th or how one was born from a rock, not a virgin.
The film is neither about trying to debate religion with the audience, nor is it trying to sell you a truth to it.
And religious people will always find a way to diminish examinations while offering nothing substantive to fortify their beliefs of higher beings aside from arguing a particular sect's minutae
Well put, this gets a sub for sure. part of me hopes it was real, the other part of me felt like it was that "generic" story about what people see after death and that it's all a hallucination your brain creates. I have to watch it a few more times and see if i notice any other details. i feel like they showed that window multiple times on purpose to show how deep it was and how hard it would be to squeeze through, even if you could break the multiple layers.
did you notice the expressions on his face as he is crawling to her? it almost looked like he was mad at her and crawling to her to silence her for praying for him. its right after she has an epiphany about prayer and religion.
This was the best summary and insights from a nonmember of the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints that I have seen yet. Way to go!
I think most of the points here are very good. Having said that, I am bothered by our level of jaded thinking by fully overlooking in every discussion the fact that the candle nearly goes out when Barnes get near and that it won't work at all when she is trying to start the match endlessly; however, when Hugh Grant strikes the match oncd, it works. Barnes is part of a mission to serve and doesn't know she is being used. The idea here hasn't been explored. The ultimate irony here is that Hugh Grant is trying to play God and is killing missionaries through his own lack of faith, the manic search for fact, proving a justification for "belief". The irony is that Barnes is already the one with strong intellectual understanding and has wonderful strengths in her belief. She; however, is the heroine in the film because she is and has been working in the spiritual realm, having come back from being dead, a part of the spiritual world while not truly realizing it. So she is wrong about what her reality is. The movie is disarming because it demonstrates that we likely are living on the opposite side of the door and what we experience as "lack of proof", in ability to demonstrate fact of God, is precisely how it is intended to demonstrate belief. This is demonstrated in the conclusion when she is on the brink of death. She is seeing the butterfly, which we see as her brain dying and releasing all its chemicals and endorphins, but on the spiritual door, which if the flame, that is essentially being ignored by everyone, is symbolic of how we ignore evidence of God. While he saw it, he still denied it...denying evidence of God for the practice of being angry, jaded and evil. So there is a great likelihood, according to the writers, that physical death being a short door to a infinite life is the greater evidence of reality, the reality we can't see at all in our own world. I think you get it right but ignore the flame, which is the true evidence of there being another dimension, not Barnes coming back from near death or any of the other machinations. The flame is the evidence of whether Paxton spiritually lives after death and whether the butterfly is her dying brain or the door to spiritual reality. Believing anything else is still jaded.
Just saying most butterflies don't fly in winter... XD
Any shock or terror from this film is mainly derived from those with whom religion and those nagging logic and reason problems persist in their lives. Oddly this film is about not religion as a whole verses atheism, but mormonism as an example most easily ridiculed by other religious sects who ironically are blind to their own absurdity.
The end was a nod to the non answered question enabling the film to be sold as thought provoking instead of antireligious. Have no doubt, whatever the brevity of Reid's arguments, none of the girl's retorts survive scrutiny. "He has the head of a bird" is not an argument diminishing her own incredulously gullible beliefs
I pick E all of the above.
I have now watched "Heretic" three times. Mr. Reed is a polygamist.
--
Vultare said what first? I swear I’ve read that in the Bible 🤔 that’s right! Jesus said that first Luke 12:48.
lmao
dude shut up lol you said nothing you just said what everyone thought of the movie