I would never have guessed ! Me and everyone I ever talked to about this, was totally sure the alu ones were lighter and stronger... and I always wanted to change the whole suspension on my -83 back and fore to the never aluminium type. BUT when I had one of them (wishbones) really bend over, I was glad it was steel, or else I could never have limped back to the garage ;)
It takes a lot more aluminum than steel for them to be strong enough. While, aluminum arms might be more expensive on the second hand market they were actually cheaper for Porsche to manufacture than steel arms. So, in many cases people are advocating putting the cheaper part on their cars. While road noise is slightly reduced with aluminum arms, I can see no other benefit...
First of all great and informative video, as usual. Request - can you make a vid next time you do front suspension work on a 944 ? I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one with questions when it comes to adjusting toe in(out) etc. and the whole install - even though it's very simple - would be cool to watch how you would do it... kind of like a natural extension of this video. Friendly regards from the Porsche heads at a MC Garage in the middle of the Norwegian woods.
I have all the alignments done at friends shop that has a laser machine. I might do just enough to get it across the street to his shop without wearing the tires, but that's about it. Trying to align a car at home is just out of the question. I tried it once and you're just never going to get it as exact. My tires were wearing after 40k miles and after the laser alignment for $60 that car went 75k on the next set... so personally, I find the alignment cheaper than tires and worth every penny! I hope that helps!
How do you install the rear bushings on the steel control arms? My original problem was that the new bushings slipped right on my new control arms (too loose). I tried getting a new control arm of a different brand and this time I succeeded in ruining the rear bushing from trying to beat the holy s--t out of it to get it on the shaft. It did tell me the original set of arms had under-spec rear pivot shafts, but now I need to buy two more arms, two front bushings, and one more rear bushing. I couldn't get that rear bushing more than half-way on the new arm, and it's pointless trying to get it back off! I don't see how the arm could be put in a press. Is there some custom tool for this?
I spray all rubber bushings down with WD-40. It will slide right on and since its water based it won't hurt anything and dry right up so it won't come off. Good luck!
Very nice. I just switched over to my 17" wheels and I am looking at ride quality and support. Just the struts and shocks alone have helped considerably. After watching this I am now wondering a few things - whats you take? I have some Aluminum CA's from a parts car. Would you consider this an upgrade to ride quality yourself or is it not that noticeable? Second, I've read that on an early 944 you should switch to aluminum for strength and support of the 17" wheels. How true is this? I mean if I have the parts should I just go to Alum? Your videos are awesome. Even sent you an email on your aol account - Thanks for all of this. I hope to put some pics of my ride on your FB page soon. Working on the 134A conversion at the moment.
People often misunderstand the purpose of things. Porsche didn’t switch to aluminum arms because they were stronger or lighter. They did the switch because they’re cheaper to manufacture and help quieten down the interior. So there should be no reason to switch if you don’t want to. I hope that helps!
Sure does, bottom line. Steel is more than fine. You the Man!! I swear I've learned more here on your channel than sorting through all those forums sites - not putting them down, just saying I don't really care about stock colors and ROW flashers when I'm trying to read about suspension or clutch repair - LOL Thank You so much
For manufacturers it’s cheaper to make aluminum control arms so that probably had a lot to do with their decision. Today the steel arms are still manufactured since they were used on a lot of cars. So they are the cheaper option now since the aluminum ones have to be made in small runs.
It would be interesting for you to weight just the wheel end of the control arms like you would when balancing con rods.. I think whichever is lighter out at the wheel would be best for unsprung weight reduction, the bushings on the body side are not really unsprung weight IMO.. That test may give interesting/different results, the data that really matters.. I think I prefer the steel ones I have because they are already paid for and installed ;)
I may come back to this in another video. I did weigh them like that but didn't really want to open a can of worms. There really wasn't a significant difference between them I thought that some people might not be pleased with that method. So I just decided to play it safe and weigh them as they are on the car in one take so no one could cry foul. This really isn't meant to be scientific, I just thought it would be fun for people that have never seen them side-by-side to get an idea of how they feel compared to each other.
It's a great video don't get me wrong, very cool.. Informative.. I understand you not wanting to get into a can of worms.. I guess I'm just a can of worms down the rabbit hole kind of guy.. :)
Yes! Your '86 is early offset so they will bolt right on to your car! That said, you have to pay attention to the sway bar mounting since there were several different setups. My steel arms attach the sway bar with a mount with two holes, but my aluminum arms use a mount with a larger single hole. So you will either need to find a steel set that has the single hole like your late arms, (which will bolt straight in) or you'll need to source the other brackets to make it work. I hope that helps!
The steel arms are right out the VW parts bin, common to the Rabbit/Scirocco.
I would never have guessed ! Me and everyone I ever talked to about this, was totally sure the alu ones were lighter and stronger... and I always wanted to change the whole suspension on my -83 back and fore to the never aluminium type. BUT when I had one of them (wishbones) really bend over, I was glad it was steel, or else I could never have limped back to the garage ;)
It takes a lot more aluminum than steel for them to be strong enough. While, aluminum arms might be more expensive on the second hand market they were actually cheaper for Porsche to manufacture than steel arms. So, in many cases people are advocating putting the cheaper part on their cars. While road noise is slightly reduced with aluminum arms, I can see no other benefit...
First of all great and informative video, as usual. Request - can you make a vid next time you do front suspension work on a 944 ? I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one with questions when it comes to adjusting toe in(out) etc. and the whole install - even though it's very simple - would be cool to watch how you would do it... kind of like a natural extension of this video. Friendly regards from the Porsche heads at a MC Garage in the middle of the Norwegian woods.
I have all the alignments done at friends shop that has a laser machine. I might do just enough to get it across the street to his shop without wearing the tires, but that's about it. Trying to align a car at home is just out of the question. I tried it once and you're just never going to get it as exact. My tires were wearing after 40k miles and after the laser alignment for $60 that car went 75k on the next set... so personally, I find the alignment cheaper than tires and worth every penny! I hope that helps!
Ok, I'll forget about the planks and strings then..
How do you install the rear bushings on the steel control arms? My original problem was that the new bushings slipped right on my new control arms (too loose). I tried getting a new control arm of a different brand and this time I succeeded in ruining the rear bushing from trying to beat the holy s--t out of it to get it on the shaft. It did tell me the original set of arms had under-spec rear pivot shafts, but now I need to buy two more arms, two front bushings, and one more rear bushing. I couldn't get that rear bushing more than half-way on the new arm, and it's pointless trying to get it back off! I don't see how the arm could be put in a press. Is there some custom tool for this?
I spray all rubber bushings down with WD-40. It will slide right on and since its water based it won't hurt anything and dry right up so it won't come off. Good luck!
Very nice. I just switched over to my 17" wheels and I am looking at ride quality and support. Just the struts and shocks alone have helped considerably. After watching this I am now wondering a few things - whats you take?
I have some Aluminum CA's from a parts car. Would you consider this an upgrade to ride quality yourself or is it not that noticeable?
Second, I've read that on an early 944 you should switch to aluminum for strength and support of the 17" wheels. How true is this? I mean if I have the parts should I just go to Alum?
Your videos are awesome. Even sent you an email on your aol account - Thanks for all of this. I hope to put some pics of my ride on your FB page soon. Working on the 134A conversion at the moment.
People often misunderstand the purpose of things. Porsche didn’t switch to aluminum arms because they were stronger or lighter. They did the switch because they’re cheaper to manufacture and help quieten down the interior. So there should be no reason to switch if you don’t want to. I hope that helps!
Sure does, bottom line. Steel is more than fine. You the Man!! I swear I've learned more here on your channel than sorting through all those forums sites - not putting them down, just saying I don't really care about stock colors and ROW flashers when I'm trying to read about suspension or clutch repair - LOL
Thank You so much
Their is a $930.00 price difference! I would've dealt with the road noise...
For manufacturers it’s cheaper to make aluminum control arms so that probably had a lot to do with their decision. Today the steel arms are still manufactured since they were used on a lot of cars. So they are the cheaper option now since the aluminum ones have to be made in small runs.
It would be interesting for you to weight just the wheel end of the control arms like you would when balancing con rods..
I think whichever is lighter out at the wheel would be best for unsprung weight reduction, the bushings on the body side are not really unsprung weight IMO..
That test may give interesting/different results, the data that really matters..
I think I prefer the steel ones I have because they are already paid for and installed ;)
I may come back to this in another video. I did weigh them like that but didn't really want to open a can of worms. There really wasn't a significant difference between them I thought that some people might not be pleased with that method. So I just decided to play it safe and weigh them as they are on the car in one take so no one could cry foul. This really isn't meant to be scientific, I just thought it would be fun for people that have never seen them side-by-side to get an idea of how they feel compared to each other.
It's a great video don't get me wrong, very cool.. Informative..
I understand you not wanting to get into a can of worms..
I guess I'm just a can of worms down the rabbit hole kind of guy.. :)
Can you go from aluminium to steel for an 86 ?
Yes! Your '86 is early offset so they will bolt right on to your car! That said, you have to pay attention to the sway bar mounting since there were several different setups. My steel arms attach the sway bar with a mount with two holes, but my aluminum arms use a mount with a larger single hole. So you will either need to find a steel set that has the single hole like your late arms, (which will bolt straight in) or you'll need to source the other brackets to make it work. I hope that helps!
edredas great thank you