I’ve seen that video and others with the Ocellia speakers done by Ivar, The Audiophile Barista from The Netherlands. He makes some good vids. Those particular speakers always interested me, as I heard about the cabinets using their resonances to work with them rather than deaden them. They’re also high in sensitivity as well as being 16 ohms, if I remember correctly. I’ve unfortunately never been able to hear a pair though, but I’d certainly love to. Thank you, Janos. Btw, excellent parallel with the description of tympani. I played tympani and other miscellaneous percussion instruments for almost 4 yrs in my high school marching band. I even had to sit on a stool to be able to tune them quickly, as I had 5 of them by my senior year. Granted, we’re going back to the early to mid 90’s, but you don’t forget that sound and feeling.
@@theaudiophilebarista2424 Of course, Ivar. I’ve been watching and enjoying your vids for quite a while now, and even have a flag on your subscribers map! Thank you! 🥳👍🎶🔊✨
Hi Nick, yes, they are 16 ohm PHY drivers! :) They are astonishing drivers, very most likely the best full range drivers available! If I would go on describing them, I would just start drooling and my keyboard would lock up! HAHA
@@theaudiophilebarista2424 Thank you Ivar for the humbling compliment! Just found your channel last week, and I enjoy your videos very much. So glad to connect to fellow audiophiles who are enjoying the journey! Janos
Hi Janos ,beautiful description of the cabinet details and the intent of the designer..I just thought I would pass on the PHY drivers can be had without a tweeter, with a coaxial tweeter and with a separate tweeter.These drivers are amongst the best I have ever heard , alnico magnet,silver voice coil, paper cone, bronze basket.All of these materials contribute to the magic.PHY along with Fertin, Supravox and EMS are some of the great drivers coming out of France.Best Regards Lou.
Thank you Lou! Indeed, these PHY drivers are just about the most gorgeous drivers one can get. The construction and attention to detail is just absolute top level, not just in a technical way, but in a technical way with considering music / natural response as a key factor. VS measurements alone, where most so-called "state-of-the-art" modern drivers are going at.
Hi Lou. Do you have any specific recommendations for an 8 inch fullrange-driver to use in a Voigt Pipe loudspeaker (hoping to build one this year)? Many thanks! Claus
@@earkivaren Hi Claus I do not have any experience with the Voigt pipe speakers, you may want to ask Janos for a recommendation as he has a lot of experience with building them. I do recall a friend of mine having Cain and Cain Abbey speakers about 15 years ago and they were a Voigt pipe design and if I recall they used a Fostex 8 inch driver but I do not recall the number.I do not also know how much your willing to spend as well because prices on drivers can vary so much these days.I have mainly focused on open baffle designs with field coil speakers for the last 15 years or so. Best Regards Lou
@@loureda5443 Hi Lou. Sorry about the late reply. Thank you for chipping in. I guess so much determines a appropriate driver: price, amp, loudspeaker design, room characteristics and much else. I was just looking for a quick fix :) Thanks! Claus
I suspect they do extra care to match the panels of the L / R pair. and of course, they make them by the pairs, can't just grab a random one and pair with another.. at least that's what I suspect ;
So... in order to hit 21,5 Hz using a t-line or voigt pipe, you'd need a room that's 16 meters wide/long? if i understand correctly, a resonating cabinet that is 2 meters in its longest dimension will have its maximum resonance occur at 86 Hz (if not stuffed), full power bass extension to 43 Hz, and half power bass extension an octave below at 21,5 Hz? but without pressure it needs the right distance between walls (16 m) in order to support its resonance?
Hi Raoul, yes, that's correct, it works by exciting the waves, instead of creating pressure. However, if the room is half the wavelength, then the 21,5Hz wave can already form in it. (But close-by frequencies will have issues - eg 20Hz, 24Hz..) So, a 8m long room will already give pretty decent 21,5Hz, but the response with half-wave size rooms is not as even, because if wavelength is little longer or shorter, then response gets much more uneven compared to having the entire 16m length. Going back to the response: 2m pipe will give 43Hz full power (the quarter wave), and roll down to 21,5Hz. The actual application being good response down to 30Hz in most large rooms/
@@realworldaudio by the way, i wanted to say how much i appreciate your videos and the information that is contained within them. and the effort you put in 😊. i feel like some of the true magic of audio can be learnt from these videos, which can be hard to pick up just off the forums, for example, or other sources. speaking for myself, of course 😊. it excites my passion and enthusiasm for physics, audio, and music (as you may have noticed! 😁). so thank you
another question... if you don't mind. could the best of both worlds be combined...? so 98% of the magic and efficiency of voigt pipes with 98% of the extension and authority of bass reflex. for example, by creating a voigt pipe style cabinet tuned to the room by virtue of its dimensions and flexible resonating baffle, that in addition is ported and tuned to 20 Hz. (assuming the driver specs facilitate the port tuning.) say we use a subwoofer of decent efficiency, (and the cabinet is huge), would the bass driver need to be mounted to the baffle, or would the baffle resonate just as well if the bass driver was mounted on the (thicker) side or back wall of the cabinet?
@@raoulselten9480 Hi Raoul, you have essentially described my Voice of Lancelot speakers! Basically a Voigt pipe in active cabinet, that opens with a port to the room and is tuned to 18Hz. The Altec 515C handles all the material between 11Hz- to about 500Hz. (The driver can handle material strongly down to 13Hz, and has useful output down to 11Hz. My calculated -10dB in-room response is at 13Hz, and the -6dB point is at 14Hz.) The crossover is first order, rolled off at 265Hz. The cabinet handles frequencies down to 35Hz, and the port takes over for the sub-35Hz. My room is about 13m wide, so 16Hz half-wave can fit inside, and a 32Hz full wave as well... So, basicaly fully-developed bass down to 32Hz, and then choppy bass down to 16Hz. Its bass reproduction is unlike anything I heard. The sub-20Hz region is a total game changer for those material that has that content. With a huge warning: it is a complete life-changing experience....
@@raoulselten9480 Thank you Raoul for sharing your thoughts! Indeed, from the start of my fascination with audio I wanted to get to the magic... I hope I can help your journey! Cheers, Janos
Can you share your thoughts on voigt pipe cabinets? Should they be active, dampened or a blend? What did Mr. Voigt think about this issue? Thanks and keep up the good work!
Thank you Mark for the question! The original Voigt pipe was live cabinet, lightly stuffed in the top half, with very high efficiency full range driver. All the best Voigt cabinets I hear were just like that - live cabinet material (pine, spruce), light stuffing in the top, 95-97dB efficient drivers. Cheers, Janos
Thank you Janos. I am planning a Voigt pipe build using 8” audio nirvana drivers, 3/4” bb plywood sides/back + spruce front baffle. But Tech Ingredients constrained layer approach as me thinking twice 😀.
@@markjensen9346 Nice plan! Using constrained layers will bring the focus more to midbass and top end, and will bring a feeling of "greater control", but also of "restraint". It will move you towards accessing the music through your intellect and focus more on the stereo gear. If you listen to a lot of trumpet, saxophone, then you might like that path better, as the constraint will make them pop out even more as the harmonic overtones are missing. Keeping the cabinet live, will make the midrange breathe, wooden body instruments and vocals sound natural. Will make you sing, dance, and connect to the performers instead of brooding mood / focus on gear.
I’ve seen that video and others with the Ocellia speakers done by Ivar, The Audiophile Barista from The Netherlands. He makes some good vids. Those particular speakers always interested me, as I heard about the cabinets using their resonances to work with them rather than deaden them. They’re also high in sensitivity as well as being 16 ohms, if I remember correctly. I’ve unfortunately never been able to hear a pair though, but I’d certainly love to. Thank you, Janos.
Btw, excellent parallel with the description of tympani. I played tympani and other miscellaneous percussion instruments for almost 4 yrs in my high school marching band. I even had to sit on a stool to be able to tune them quickly, as I had 5 of them by my senior year. Granted, we’re going back to the early to mid 90’s, but you don’t forget that sound and feeling.
Thank you for your kind words Nick 👍
@@theaudiophilebarista2424 Of course, Ivar. I’ve been watching and enjoying your vids for quite a while now, and even have a flag on your subscribers map! Thank you! 🥳👍🎶🔊✨
Hi Nick, yes, they are 16 ohm PHY drivers! :) They are astonishing drivers, very most likely the best full range drivers available! If I would go on describing them, I would just start drooling and my keyboard would lock up! HAHA
Hey, that’s me 😉 Thanks for sharing. Some interesting info in your video 👍
- I love my Ocellia’s
Thank you for sharing your Ocellias in the first place! They are beautiful speakers. :)
@@realworldaudio Coming from you, I take that as a big compliment 👍 Keep up the good work 😉
@@theaudiophilebarista2424 Thank you Ivar for the humbling compliment! Just found your channel last week, and I enjoy your videos very much. So glad to connect to fellow audiophiles who are enjoying the journey! Janos
Such an interesting speaker. I tell Ivar all the time. Always sounds nice on his sound test videos. I would love a pair in my setup.
Hi Janos ,beautiful description of the cabinet details and the intent of the designer..I just thought I would pass on the PHY drivers can be had without a tweeter, with a coaxial tweeter
and with a separate tweeter.These drivers are amongst the best I have ever heard , alnico magnet,silver voice coil, paper cone, bronze basket.All of these materials contribute to the magic.PHY along with Fertin, Supravox and EMS are some of the great drivers coming out of France.Best Regards Lou.
Thank you Lou! Indeed, these PHY drivers are just about the most gorgeous drivers one can get. The construction and attention to detail is just absolute top level, not just in a technical way, but in a technical way with considering music / natural response as a key factor. VS measurements alone, where most so-called "state-of-the-art" modern drivers are going at.
Hi Lou. Do you have any specific recommendations for an 8 inch fullrange-driver to use in a Voigt Pipe loudspeaker (hoping to build one this year)? Many thanks! Claus
@@earkivaren Hi Claus I do not have any experience with the Voigt pipe speakers, you may want to ask Janos for a recommendation as he has a lot of experience with building them. I do recall a friend of mine having Cain and Cain Abbey speakers about 15 years ago and they were a Voigt pipe design and if I recall
they used a Fostex 8 inch driver but I do not recall the number.I do not also know how much your willing to spend as well because prices on drivers can vary so much these days.I have mainly focused on open baffle designs with field coil speakers for the last
15 years or so. Best Regards Lou
@@loureda5443 Hi Lou. Sorry about the late reply. Thank you for chipping in. I guess so much determines a appropriate driver: price, amp, loudspeaker design, room characteristics and much else. I was just looking for a quick fix :) Thanks! Claus
master piece inspiration.
kinda tricky must be to tune this super thin baffles together
I suspect they do extra care to match the panels of the L / R pair. and of course, they make them by the pairs, can't just grab a random one and pair with another.. at least that's what I suspect ;
Very interesting concept, great info by you, so much to explore
So... in order to hit 21,5 Hz using a t-line or voigt pipe, you'd need a room that's 16 meters wide/long? if i understand correctly, a resonating cabinet that is 2 meters in its longest dimension will have its maximum resonance occur at 86 Hz (if not stuffed), full power bass extension to 43 Hz, and half power bass extension an octave below at 21,5 Hz? but without pressure it needs the right distance between walls (16 m) in order to support its resonance?
Hi Raoul, yes, that's correct, it works by exciting the waves, instead of creating pressure. However, if the room is half the wavelength, then the 21,5Hz wave can already form in it. (But close-by frequencies will have issues - eg 20Hz, 24Hz..) So, a 8m long room will already give pretty decent 21,5Hz, but the response with half-wave size rooms is not as even, because if wavelength is little longer or shorter, then response gets much more uneven compared to having the entire 16m length. Going back to the response: 2m pipe will give 43Hz full power (the quarter wave), and roll down to 21,5Hz. The actual application being good response down to 30Hz in most large rooms/
@@realworldaudio by the way, i wanted to say how much i appreciate your videos and the information that is contained within them. and the effort you put in 😊. i feel like some of the true magic of audio can be learnt from these videos, which can be hard to pick up just off the forums, for example, or other sources. speaking for myself, of course 😊. it excites my passion and enthusiasm for physics, audio, and music (as you may have noticed! 😁). so thank you
another question... if you don't mind. could the best of both worlds be combined...? so 98% of the magic and efficiency of voigt pipes with 98% of the extension and authority of bass reflex. for example, by creating a voigt pipe style cabinet tuned to the room by virtue of its dimensions and flexible resonating baffle, that in addition is ported and tuned to 20 Hz. (assuming the driver specs facilitate the port tuning.)
say we use a subwoofer of decent efficiency, (and the cabinet is huge), would the bass driver need to be mounted to the baffle, or would the baffle resonate just as well if the bass driver was mounted on the (thicker) side or back wall of the cabinet?
@@raoulselten9480 Hi Raoul, you have essentially described my Voice of Lancelot speakers! Basically a Voigt pipe in active cabinet, that opens with a port to the room and is tuned to 18Hz. The Altec 515C handles all the material between 11Hz- to about 500Hz. (The driver can handle material strongly down to 13Hz, and has useful output down to 11Hz. My calculated -10dB in-room response is at 13Hz, and the -6dB point is at 14Hz.) The crossover is first order, rolled off at 265Hz. The cabinet handles frequencies down to 35Hz, and the port takes over for the sub-35Hz. My room is about 13m wide, so 16Hz half-wave can fit inside, and a 32Hz full wave as well... So, basicaly fully-developed bass down to 32Hz, and then choppy bass down to 16Hz. Its bass reproduction is unlike anything I heard. The sub-20Hz region is a total game changer for those material that has that content. With a huge warning: it is a complete life-changing experience....
@@raoulselten9480 Thank you Raoul for sharing your thoughts! Indeed, from the start of my fascination with audio I wanted to get to the magic... I hope I can help your journey! Cheers, Janos
Can you share your thoughts on voigt pipe cabinets? Should they be active, dampened or a blend? What did Mr. Voigt think about this issue? Thanks and keep up the good work!
Thank you Mark for the question! The original Voigt pipe was live cabinet, lightly stuffed in the top half, with very high efficiency full range driver. All the best Voigt cabinets I hear were just like that - live cabinet material (pine, spruce), light stuffing in the top, 95-97dB efficient drivers. Cheers, Janos
Thank you Janos.
I am planning a Voigt pipe build using 8” audio nirvana drivers, 3/4” bb plywood sides/back + spruce front baffle. But Tech Ingredients constrained layer approach as me thinking twice 😀.
@@markjensen9346 Nice plan! Using constrained layers will bring the focus more to midbass and top end, and will bring a feeling of "greater control", but also of "restraint". It will move you towards accessing the music through your intellect and focus more on the stereo gear. If you listen to a lot of trumpet, saxophone, then you might like that path better, as the constraint will make them pop out even more as the harmonic overtones are missing. Keeping the cabinet live, will make the midrange breathe, wooden body instruments and vocals sound natural. Will make you sing, dance, and connect to the performers instead of brooding mood / focus on gear.
@@realworldaudio That helps Janos. Thank you. Looking forward to hearing more re: the Lancelot.