I studied under Dr. Clark on his January term trip in China! Amazing and brilliant professor, loved all his lectures. Reading the Commedia now for the first time. Very insightful and helpful video. Go Dr. Clark!
This was a fantastically interesting lecture in that it presented the way Dante was employed by a Jesuit missionary in China to convert primarily children to Christianity. It prompted me to read a bit further about this, especially because of our present day interactions with China and continued attempts at missionary work there. Below I'll give a link to one of Dr. Anthony's Clark's article on this topic, which I found full text online. As mentioned in lecture, Giulio Aleni (1582-1649) wrote a work for children, to convey Christianity to them. In English this is titled the Four Character Classic. Chinese children had been raised for years, since the 13th century, on a work titled in English, the Three Character classic, used to instill the principles of Confucianism. Aleni's work was thus a primer in line with Chinese traditions for teaching the young. Aleni employed Dante's description of hell in his work. What is further amazing is to learn is that the Pope has in his private library, one of the only two copies of this work known to exist ! Also, historically, a conflict arose within the Roman Catholic Church orders about whether the Church should continue to endorse aspects of Confucianism, as practiced by Chinese converts to Christianity. A prolonged back and forth occurred over this which was quite interesting and known as the "Chinese Rites" controversy. digitalcommons.whitworth.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1016&context=historyfaculty
Thank you so much, Dr. Clark! This was so helpful. I knew as I read this canto that there were layers upon layers. I understand it so much better now, and I love the connections you made to Chinese history.
This is my favourite of all the lectures so far! The global reach of Dante is fascinating and reminds me of how John Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progess likewise reached cultures around the world through missionary translations.
Great presentation, thank you!! Fascinating that Dante’s work was used in China as instruction to avoid behaviors that endanger souls. People today need to heed these exhortations.
Canto 13: Just as there can be violence committed against others, one can commit violence against one’s self through destruction of self (suicide) or of material gifts of God. Sins due to the misuse of God’s gifts of life, talent and treasure through a lack of control of one’s appetites, are punished in Upper Hell. In the current Round 2 of Circle 7, sinners who have stolen their own lives from God through self-destruction no longer have human bodies; they are gnarled thorn trees torn apart by Harpies, half-human and half bird-of-prey. At the last judgement, these sinners will not be directly reunited with their bodies, but will have their corporal shells entwined with the thorn-tree of their souls for eternity. Those who have gone beyond being hoarders or spendthrifts by violently destroying their possessions are pursued and torn apart by ravishing hounds, to be reassembled and repeatedly destroyed. Dante is introduced to one shade who maintained he had given up his life on behalf of his service of the Emperor for the sake of familial honor. He would like to be thought of in this manner, when Dante recounts his story to others. In Dante’s time, those who committed suicide were forbidden burial in consecrated ground. Fortunately, the current Catechism of the Catholic Church states God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance of those who have taken their own lives.
Thank you, Dr. Clark! I really appreciated your comments on the global influence of Dante through the work of missionaries. It’s amazing how one person’s work can so inspire the imagination that it shapes spiritual consciousness on a global level. Sometimes I feel like I need a remedial Dante course, though. I had some basic questions about this canto that perhaps boil down to a lack of reading comprehension. For example, I didn’t fully understand the “spoilers,” even after reading all the notes. What does it mean to be a spoiler, and why is this its own category of hell? Also, I didn’t understand the text’s perspective that it was a bad thing for Florence to be Christianized. Why does Dante link its Christianization with its infighting? I get the idea that its because Mars is angry, but what is the bigger message here? Surely Dante the author doesn’t believe that… Any insight to the questions would be appreciated!
I did not really find this lecture very enlightening. I appreciate the speaker's expertise on China. But I really wanted to hear MORE about this very important canto, and not the geopolitical nature of Dante.
not all suicides are the same. so to say this happens to you when you kill yourself is heavily flawed. suicide from demonic oppression, suicide from just pure sadness, suicide from a daimon, and suicide through wickedness to transcend like in the matrix movie are all different. and to think your soul has one single outcome for all of these is silly and dead ass wrong. Neo in the matrix commits suicide through a blood ritual aka the red pill. then he is taken to the land of the dead through a mirror where he becomes a god (small g) aka a skinwalker aka shapeshifter aka a grey archon "alien" That's why we see the entire Morpheus crew wearing those sunglasses that look like grey archon eyes. there's a reason why you see a grey "alien" in the newer indiana jones movie. theres a reason why war of the worlds shows the aliens coming from here, not outer space. there are no ancient writings anywhere that say they come from another planet. to come from the heavens is a different realm. ppl just made the assumption that if they came down from the sky, then they must have come from deep outer space. can you really blame society for thinking that tho? evil demonic entities prey on that assumption and have lied to ppl all throughout history saying they came from this or that star system. all lies. astrology is a fallen angel deception. this is why so many cultures knew about the other "planets" in our "solar system." they came down to deceive man all across the earth.
I disagree. I found it both interesting and relevant. Canto 13 is just one part of the Comedy. Dr. Clark pointed out how the Comedy, in particular Dante's views of hell, were used by Chinese missionaries. So his contributions in the lecture were very relevant. Why did you think it irrelevant, which is pretty harsh?
See 1:58 where he explains his point for doing so, namely, to demonstrate the global reach Dante’s Christian imagination has had down through the centuries.
Another great presentation!!! I look forward to these talks and the amazing insights. Fascinating that Dante’s work was used in China to avoid behaviors that could endanger souls. People in this day and age need to heed these exhortations. Thank you!
I studied under Dr. Clark on his January term trip in China! Amazing and brilliant professor, loved all his lectures. Reading the Commedia now for the first time. Very insightful and helpful video. Go Dr. Clark!
Fascinating. Must have been amazing to study under him and hear his lectures IRL. Great speaker.
This was a fantastically interesting lecture in that it presented the way Dante was employed by a Jesuit missionary in China to convert primarily children to Christianity. It prompted me to read a bit further about this, especially because of our present day interactions with China and continued attempts at missionary work there. Below I'll give a link to one of Dr. Anthony's Clark's article on this topic, which I found full text online.
As mentioned in lecture, Giulio Aleni (1582-1649) wrote a work for children, to convey Christianity to them. In English this is titled the Four Character Classic. Chinese children had been raised for years, since the 13th century, on a work titled in English, the Three Character classic, used to instill the principles of Confucianism. Aleni's work was thus a primer in line with Chinese traditions for teaching the young. Aleni employed Dante's description of hell in his work.
What is further amazing is to learn is that the Pope has in his private library, one of the only two copies of this work known to exist ! Also, historically, a conflict arose within the Roman Catholic Church orders about whether the Church should continue to endorse aspects of Confucianism, as practiced by Chinese converts to Christianity. A prolonged back and forth occurred over this which was quite interesting and known as the "Chinese Rites" controversy.
digitalcommons.whitworth.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1016&context=historyfaculty
Thank you so much, Dr. Clark! This was so helpful. I knew as I read this canto that there were layers upon layers. I understand it so much better now, and I love the connections you made to Chinese history.
This is my favourite of all the lectures so far! The global reach of Dante is fascinating and reminds me of how John Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progess likewise reached cultures around the world through missionary translations.
"Hell is truth seen too late." A repeatable meme, I would say.
Great presentation, thank you!! Fascinating that Dante’s work was used in China as instruction to avoid behaviors that endanger souls. People today need to heed these exhortations.
What a lovely lecture! Thank you.
Canto 13: Just as there can be violence committed against others, one can commit violence against one’s self through destruction of self (suicide) or of material gifts of God. Sins due to the misuse of God’s gifts of life, talent and treasure through a lack of control of one’s appetites, are punished in Upper Hell. In the current Round 2 of Circle 7, sinners who have stolen their own lives from God through self-destruction no longer have human bodies; they are gnarled thorn trees torn apart by Harpies, half-human and half bird-of-prey. At the last judgement, these sinners will not be directly reunited with their bodies, but will have their corporal shells entwined with the thorn-tree of their souls for eternity. Those who have gone beyond being hoarders or spendthrifts by violently destroying their possessions are pursued and torn apart by ravishing hounds, to be reassembled and repeatedly destroyed. Dante is introduced to one shade who maintained he had given up his life on behalf of his service of the Emperor for the sake of familial honor. He would like to be thought of in this manner, when Dante recounts his story to others. In Dante’s time, those who committed suicide were forbidden burial in consecrated ground. Fortunately, the current Catechism of the Catholic Church states God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance of those who have taken their own lives.
Well done.
This was such a different lecture. I liked how China was brought into the influence. I would never have thought of any connection.
Thank you, Dr. Clark! I really appreciated your comments on the global influence of Dante through the work of missionaries. It’s amazing how one person’s work can so inspire the imagination that it shapes spiritual consciousness on a global level.
Sometimes I feel like I need a remedial Dante course, though. I had some basic questions about this canto that perhaps boil down to a lack of reading comprehension. For example, I didn’t fully understand the “spoilers,” even after reading all the notes. What does it mean to be a spoiler, and why is this its own category of hell? Also, I didn’t understand the text’s perspective that it was a bad thing for Florence to be Christianized. Why does Dante link its Christianization with its infighting? I get the idea that its because Mars is angry, but what is the bigger message here? Surely Dante the author doesn’t believe that…
Any insight to the questions would be appreciated!
ppl are lost on what hades is for. the wicked is not what you think.
I did not really find this lecture very enlightening. I appreciate the speaker's expertise on China. But I really wanted to hear MORE about this very important canto, and not the geopolitical nature of Dante.
not all suicides are the same. so to say this happens to you when you kill yourself is heavily flawed. suicide from demonic oppression, suicide from just pure sadness, suicide from a daimon, and suicide through wickedness to transcend like in the matrix movie are all different. and to think your soul has one single outcome for all of these is silly and dead ass wrong. Neo in the matrix commits suicide through a blood ritual aka the red pill. then he is taken to the land of the dead through a mirror where he becomes a god (small g) aka a skinwalker aka shapeshifter aka a grey archon "alien" That's why we see the entire Morpheus crew wearing those sunglasses that look like grey archon eyes. there's a reason why you see a grey "alien" in the newer indiana jones movie. theres a reason why war of the worlds shows the aliens coming from here, not outer space. there are no ancient writings anywhere that say they come from another planet. to come from the heavens is a different realm. ppl just made the assumption that if they came down from the sky, then they must have come from deep outer space. can you really blame society for thinking that tho? evil demonic entities prey on that assumption and have lied to ppl all throughout history saying they came from this or that star system. all lies. astrology is a fallen angel deception. this is why so many cultures knew about the other "planets" in our "solar system." they came down to deceive man all across the earth.
It might make sense to you to mention China but it's irrelevant to us in regard to Cantos 13
I disagree. I found it both interesting and relevant. Canto 13 is just one part of the Comedy. Dr. Clark pointed out how the Comedy, in particular Dante's views of hell, were used by Chinese missionaries. So his contributions in the lecture were very relevant. Why did you think it irrelevant, which is pretty harsh?
See 1:58 where he explains his point for doing so, namely, to demonstrate the global reach Dante’s Christian imagination has had down through the centuries.
Another great presentation!!! I look forward to these talks and the amazing insights. Fascinating that Dante’s work was used in China to avoid behaviors that could endanger souls. People in this day and age need to heed these exhortations. Thank you!
Those glasses should at least land you in the 3rd ring of hell
I disagree - I think they’re kind of chic. Plus, he’s a beautiful speaker, and knows his stuff!
I think they look fine on him with a nice large field of vision, like his mind, which is what I noticed about him first and foremost.