It is this speaker and the one who follows who have really drawn me into Dantes work. My own classical education is limited and spotty and I have been grateful for all the speakers who explained the classical references that I do not know well; however, it is these two speakers who engage me in the larger themes and truths found in Dantes work. For the first time I feel like I am reading an epic poem with larger truths and not just a poem outlining traditional Christian beliefs almost 1000 years ago.
Dr Teubner, I can’t thank you enough for your explanation and deep insights. Your beauty shines forth and your spiritual truth and thoughts are worth reflecting upon.
I really appreciated Dr. Teubner’s emphasis on transformation, or the lack of it, in hell. She says, “In hell, transformation is no longer possible,” and quotes Barolini, who notes, “Dante’s hell is being stuck with oneself.” This sobering concept inspires me as a Christian to pursue the Spirit’s transformation and to appreciate it for the miracle it is. I continue to have questions about Dante’s use of classic myths. At first, I assumed they were just a plot device-mythological figures guarding various parts of hell add some color to the narrative. But it’s interesting to me that Capaneus is being punished for blasphemy again Jove, not God. And in canto 13, Florence was being punished from turning away from Mars. What is going on here? I can’t quite get a read on what Dante the author thinks about pagan gods.
I think that it’s important to remember that Capaneus lived during the time of the pagans. His story comes to us through Aeschylus and Euripides in the fifth century BC. Capaneus, like Vergil, was born in that time before Christ; unlike our guide, he was not virtuous. His sin was violence against the divine. I think that Dante is extrapolating that Capaneus would have been as heretical against God as he was against Zeus (Jove).
Fantastic presentation -- I loved her description of the three paths after death as we see our first glimpse of the purpose of Purgatory -- glad to see the Roman Catholic understanding being emphasized
Wonderful insights, and well explained. I too especially appreciate the thought of suffering as having the ability to "ripen" or "mature" us pilgrims. Thank you!
I see some debate about what Dante's Great Old Man of Crete symbolizes. It seems to me that what would be of benefit is to try and understand what Dante might have intended it to symbolize. Using any interpretations imposed on the symbol from a chronological perspective later than Dante's own time would be anachronistic, whether that be a Roman Catholic or a Protestant theologically inspired contemporary viewpoint. Robert Pinsky's notes repeat what many have pointed out, that Dante draws somewhat on the Old Testament, specifically Daniel 2. He also adds that Dante draws on Ovid's Metamorphoses. One thing I like about Pinsky's notes (I wish he had not stopped after translating The Inferno) is that he aims to supply or fill in information which would a reader at the time might have known or had access to.
Canto 14: The Circle (Cerchio) with its focus on sins of violence has three Rounds (Gironi). The Round which Dante enters, is inhabited by three groups (Schiere) consisting of those who have acted violently against God, against Nature (what God has created directly) and against Art (what man has created using God-given talents.) The first group lies supine looking up towards heaven, the second is in constant motion, and the third huddles with their arms around themselves. The initial group Dante and Virgil encounter consists of blasphemers who acted directly against God. As their contrapasso, they are forced to lie on their backs on burning, infertile sand and face the unobtainable divinity they had railed against, as fiery flakes of infertile rain cover their naked bodies despite the dance of their hands to slap away the falling cinders. As they had both defied and ignored God while living, they try to defy and ignore His punishments in Hell. Virgil and Dante next encounter the Old Man of Crete, a statue symbolic of the Ages of Mankind: a head of gold (garden of Eden), chest and arms of silver (age of Rome), bronze torso (age of Charlemagne), and legs of iron (Holy Roman Empire) with one foot of clay bearing most of the weight of the body (the Papacy). The statue’s tears flow down to create the three rivers of Hell which sweep towards the lowest level where Lucifer is found.
Thanks, Pat, but this sounds like a Protestant interpretation, judging by your reference to the papacy? The traditional interpretation of King Nebuchadnezzar's dream identifies the four empires as the Babylonian (the head), Medo-Persian (arms and shoulders), Greek (thighs and legs), and Roman (the feet) empires. Most modern scholars agree that the four world empires symbolised by the statue are Babylon (the head), the Medes (arms and shoulders), Persia (thighs and legs) and Seleucid Syria and Ptolemaic Egypt (the feet). The book of Daniel provides three different interpretations of the meaning of the mixture of iron and clay in the statue's feet, as a "divided kingdom," then as "strong and brittle," and finally as a dynastic marriage. The marriage might be a reference to either of two between the Seleucids and the Ptolemies, the first in c.250 BCE and the second in 193.
@@pjhammond494168 Thank you for your classical summary of the ages of mankind based upon the image described in the Book of Daniel. However, I did not intend to give a "Protestant interpretation" with what might be viewed as a negative view of the Papacy. Nevertheless, the outline I gave may be reflective of that held by Dante, himself! Although he was a white Guelf, Dante personally had a jaundiced eye about his contemporary Papacy. We will encounter several of his popes on his journey through the Inferno. BTW, you might like to check out John Ciardi's footnote on this verse.
Thank you, Pat. That is interesting. I shall look up the footnote. If that was the view held by Dante, I can relate to it! I'm a Catholic and I loved Popes JP II and Benedict XVI (who formed me in my youth), but I often really struggle with Pope Francis. I love some of his pronouncements and actions, but detest others and tend to alternate in my mind between placing him in heaven, purpatory and hell!
The rain of fire is an allusion to Genesis 19, 24-28 and the divine punishment of Sodom and Gomorrah. Also on the battle shield of Capaneus it was written "I will burn the city" his punishment in hell will be to be burned on the sand.
Dante's hell is being stuck with oneself........wow. Great job doc.
It is this speaker and the one who follows who have really drawn me into Dantes work. My own classical education is limited and spotty and I have been grateful for all the speakers who explained the classical references that I do not know well; however, it is these two speakers who engage me in the larger themes and truths found in Dantes work. For the first time I feel like I am reading an epic poem with larger truths and not just a poem outlining traditional Christian beliefs almost 1000 years ago.
Dr Teubner, I can’t thank you enough for your explanation and deep insights. Your beauty shines forth and your spiritual truth and thoughts are worth reflecting upon.
I really appreciated Dr. Teubner’s emphasis on transformation, or the lack of it, in hell. She says, “In hell, transformation is no longer possible,” and quotes Barolini, who notes, “Dante’s hell is being stuck with oneself.” This sobering concept inspires me as a Christian to pursue the Spirit’s transformation and to appreciate it for the miracle it is.
I continue to have questions about Dante’s use of classic myths. At first, I assumed they were just a plot device-mythological figures guarding various parts of hell add some color to the narrative. But it’s interesting to me that Capaneus is being punished for blasphemy again Jove, not God. And in canto 13, Florence was being punished from turning away from Mars. What is going on here? I can’t quite get a read on what Dante the author thinks about pagan gods.
I think that it’s important to remember that Capaneus lived during the time of the pagans. His story comes to us through Aeschylus and Euripides in the fifth century BC. Capaneus, like Vergil, was born in that time before Christ; unlike our guide, he was not virtuous. His sin was violence against the divine. I think that Dante is extrapolating that Capaneus would have been as heretical against God as he was against Zeus (Jove).
Fantastic presentation -- I loved her description of the three paths after death as we see our first glimpse of the purpose of Purgatory -- glad to see the Roman Catholic understanding being emphasized
Wonderful insights, and well explained. I too especially appreciate the thought of suffering as having the ability to "ripen" or "mature" us pilgrims. Thank you!
Excellent presentation! I enjoyed it so much that I watched it twice. Thank you Dr. Teubner.
Best speaker so far.
This is a lovely meditation. Thank you Dr. Teubner!
Beautiful explanation.
Well done! I certainly am feeling closer to the Almighty as I go through this series.
I see some debate about what Dante's Great Old Man of Crete symbolizes. It seems to me that what would be of benefit is to try and understand what Dante might have intended it to symbolize. Using any interpretations imposed on the symbol from a chronological perspective later than Dante's own time would be anachronistic, whether that be a Roman Catholic or a Protestant theologically inspired contemporary viewpoint. Robert Pinsky's notes repeat what many have pointed out, that Dante draws somewhat on the Old Testament, specifically Daniel 2. He also adds that Dante draws on Ovid's Metamorphoses. One thing I like about Pinsky's notes (I wish he had not stopped after translating The Inferno) is that he aims to supply or fill in information which would a reader at the time might have known or had access to.
😇👍
Canto 14: The Circle (Cerchio) with its focus on sins of violence has three Rounds (Gironi). The Round which Dante enters, is inhabited by three groups (Schiere) consisting of those who have acted violently against God, against Nature (what God has created directly) and against Art (what man has created using God-given talents.) The first group lies supine looking up towards heaven, the second is in constant motion, and the third huddles with their arms around themselves. The initial group Dante and Virgil encounter consists of blasphemers who acted directly against God. As their contrapasso, they are forced to lie on their backs on burning, infertile sand and face the unobtainable divinity they had railed against, as fiery flakes of infertile rain cover their naked bodies despite the dance of their hands to slap away the falling cinders. As they had both defied and ignored God while living, they try to defy and ignore His punishments in Hell. Virgil and Dante next encounter the Old Man of Crete, a statue symbolic of the Ages of Mankind: a head of gold (garden of Eden), chest and arms of silver (age of Rome), bronze torso (age of Charlemagne), and legs of iron (Holy Roman Empire) with one foot of clay bearing most of the weight of the body (the Papacy). The statue’s tears flow down to create the three rivers of Hell which sweep towards the lowest level where Lucifer is found.
Thanks, Pat, but this sounds like a Protestant interpretation, judging by your reference to the papacy?
The traditional interpretation of King Nebuchadnezzar's dream identifies the four empires as the Babylonian (the head), Medo-Persian (arms and shoulders), Greek (thighs and legs), and Roman (the feet) empires.
Most modern scholars agree that the four world empires symbolised by the statue are Babylon (the head), the Medes (arms and shoulders), Persia (thighs and legs) and Seleucid Syria and Ptolemaic Egypt (the feet).
The book of Daniel provides three different interpretations of the meaning of the mixture of iron and clay in the statue's feet, as a "divided kingdom," then as "strong and brittle," and finally as a dynastic marriage. The marriage might be a reference to either of two between the Seleucids and the Ptolemies, the first in c.250 BCE and the second in 193.
@@pjhammond494168 Thank you for your classical summary of the ages of mankind based upon the image described in the Book of Daniel. However, I did not intend to give a "Protestant interpretation" with what might be viewed as a negative view of the Papacy. Nevertheless, the outline I gave may be reflective of that held by Dante, himself! Although he was a white Guelf, Dante personally had a jaundiced eye about his contemporary Papacy. We will encounter several of his popes on his journey through the Inferno. BTW, you might like to check out John Ciardi's footnote on this verse.
Thank you, Pat. That is interesting. I shall look up the footnote.
If that was the view held by Dante, I can relate to it! I'm a Catholic and I loved Popes JP II and Benedict XVI (who formed me in my youth), but I often really struggle with Pope Francis. I love some of his pronouncements and actions, but detest others and tend to alternate in my mind between placing him in heaven, purpatory and hell!
The rain of fire is an allusion to Genesis 19, 24-28 and the divine punishment of Sodom and Gomorrah. Also on the battle shield of Capaneus it was written "I will burn the city" his punishment in hell will be to be burned on the sand.