I have nothing but admiration and respect for people building neosindrian as a modern, living language. Philologists of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your (n-1)lingualism!
It was explained to me by tolkien linguists that “Hannon le” was created by David Salo based on a Quenya verb and was very obscure. Most neo-Sindarin enthusiasts today say “Annon allen” literally “I give (thanks) to you”
David Salo may have created **hanna-* (I didn't know it was him - I'm taking your word for truth), which occurs in *hannon le* (or *le hannon* ), being obvivously adapted from Quenya *hanta-* "thank". But certainly he didn't created *le* , which is attested as "you", both as subject and indirect/dative object (hence its use in *hannon le* "thank you" - literally, "I thank *_to_* you"). Honestly, I see no reason why to use **anna-* instead of **hanna-* . It happens that **anna-* as the verb "thank" is even more obscure than **hanna-* (at least, the latter is analog to a Quenya verb - Sindarin and Quenya words analog to each other are not an uncommon thing). Plus, there is already an attested verb *anna-* "give" in Sindarin (Quenya *anta-* ), and using it as a second verb ("thank") may cause confusion. Last, since, as I have said, *le* is attested as "you" as an indirect/dative object (that is, an object that requires a preposition), the extrapolated form **allen* is unnecessary.
@@atanvardo5730 first and foremost, I didn’t make up the phrase, The first or the more accurate one. Secondly, Annon allen does make sense because Sindarin doesn’t fit the English mindset, it is based from Welsh and Irish; Welsh moreso. And one thing Celtic languages are infamous for are their phraseology, which is more ambiguous than English. Not to mention that quite unlike English, Quenya and Sindarin are inflected languages. So to clarify, Annon Allen (I give “thanks” to you) makes perfect sense. You’re not saying Annon len (I give you) because you’re not giving someone…to nothing. And even with the Quenya verb Hanna- it’s the same deal. So why Anna instead of hanna? Because there’s this mindset of using the most up to date words and phrases if any can be made.
@@jackwooten2374 You completely missed the point... The fact that Sindarin is (mostly) based on Welsh (but also, let it be said, in Old Norse and a couple of other languages, including Latin) has no importance _at all_ given that *le* is attested as an indirect object pronoun for "you", which makes it unnecessary to use an extrapolated form like **allen* in _any_ construction (the same way *le* could be used in *hannon le* , it can also be used in place of **allen* in a sentence like **annon le* , as both have "you" as an indirect object). Last, but not least, while the phonology of Sindarin is evidently based mostly (ornperhaps almost entirely) on that of Welsh, no one can say in which usages and to which extent Sindarin actually follows the "mindset" of Welsh; and, therefore, **annon le* (or **annon allen* - if, for some mysterious reason, someone prefers to use an unnattested pronoun instead of an attested one) as Sindarin for "I give thanks to you" is highly dubious construction, to say the least.
@@atanvardo5730 I’m afraid it’s you who’s missed the point. I’ll reiterate, sindarin is an INFLECTED language, much unlike English. The second person reverent pronoun “Le” is the nominative in original cannon. How do we have “Allen” then? No it’s not a different word completely, it is in fact the indirect object form that you mistook Le for. How can we have a word like “Allen” if it’s never written in cannon as far as some of us can see? Because it’s a contraction of the preposition “an” and pronoun “le” as “Anle”, but given phonetic rules of Sindarin (much like that of Welsh as a matter of fact) we have to mutate and compensate consonants. And the fact that le begins with “L” complicates matters further with the type of consonant L is in the first place. But to make a long story short: “An Le> Anle> Alle>Allen”. That’s how we get it. We also have another pronoun in same formation of “Ni” and “Ci” attested in works as “Enni” and “Echin” along with the reflexive first person pronoun “Anim”. Every one of these takes “an” and combines it with the pronoun to form the dative case. Sorry for jumping all over the place, but that’s one of the only ways I know to explain it linguistically
Yes it was, although the Elfish tongue Quenya, its Finnish text was his (Tolkien) main drive, but greatest influence was Cymraeg ( The sound & structure of Welsh) and was the foundation-stone of all Elvish languages invented by Tolkien. Quote: J .R.R Tolkien, subject: The Welsh language. Lecture given at the University of Oxford on the 21st October 1955 said : " Welsh is of this soil, this island, the senior language of the men of Britain, and Welsh is beautiful." He said not the same of Finnish. Diolch yn fawr. Wela i chi!
@@akodenkuniklo6109 Yes, Quenya was clearly based mostly on Finnish. It is a consense among Elvish scholars. There are many Quenya words that sound very similar to Finnish words. Quenya's syllabic scheme is very Finnish-like. Also, Quenya endings such as *-la* and *-nen* / *-inen* , for example, are very common in Finnish. But of course Tolkien didn't want Quenya to be a mere copy of Finnish, so he also drew inspiration from Greek, Latin and also a little bit from Italian. There is nothing of Welsh in Quenya. Plus, for Tolkien, Finnish was so beautiful that he said he got "intoxicated" with this language in his youth. Italian was another language he loved. Although he certainly found Welsh a beautiful language and cherished it as an old British tongue, it never got him "intoxicated" as Finnish did. And just like Quenya, Sindarin was not inspired by one single language (in case Welsh). Tolkien also drew inspiration from a couple of other languages, Old Norse among them. Even a touch of Greek and of Latin can be found on Sindarin. The Greek touch can be noted at least, for example, on the Sindarin ending *-on* (which also occurs in Quenya), and the Sindarin stress rules are the same as in Latin (as for the Quenya stress rules). Furthermore, between the two main Elvish languages, it was Quenya, the Finnish-inspired tongue, and not Sindarin, the one Tolkien chose to be considered the most beautiful of all Elvish tongues within his mythos. Among the languages he invented, Quenya was obviously the language of his heart.
There are various Elvish languages in the mythology of _The Lord of the Rings_ . The most well known are Sindarin (which translates Gray Elvish) and Quenya (also known as High Elvish - but this is not a translation of the laguage's name). The language presented on this video is Sindarin. Quenya and Sindarin are the only relatively well developped Elvish languages, specially the former.
In *nauthannen i ned ôl reniannen* "I thought I had strayed into a dream", the article *i* ("the" - singular), which is also used as a relative pronun ("who", "which", "that"), should not be there. Even if David Salo's intention was to include the conjunction "that" ("I thought _that_ I had strayed into a dream"), the *i* doesn't fit, because *i* is not used as a conjunction (it is the definite article and a relative pronoun). This conjunction doesn't exist in Sindarin. We can just say *nauthannen ned ôl reniannen* "I thought I had strayed into a dream", with the conjunction "that" being implied. Tanslating word for word into English, we have: "I-thought (that) into (a-)dream I-strayed". In Quenya, the sentence would render *sananen sa olorenna rannen* "I thought that I had strayed into a dream" (word for word: "I-thought that into(-a)-dream I-strayed") - unlike Sindarin, Quenya has a word for the conjunction "that": *sa* . [ Edit: In the Quenya translation, I had used _"anyanen_ for "I strayed", but the corret form is *rannen* . I corrected this. ]. Word order is more limited in Sindarin than in Quenya (because the latter is a higly inflected language); although, in the case of this sentence, it makes no difference. For "thank you", we can say *hantanyel* in Quenya or *le hannon* or *hannon le* in Sindarin (both phrases mean literally "I thank you"). For "thanks" we can use Q. *hantalë* or S. *hannad* (both meaning literally "thanks-giving").
_Mellon nín_ -- the _í_ spelled with an acute accent, indicating this is a long vowel (pronounced with about two times the duration of a normal, short _i_ ). This is Sindarin for "my friend". The Quenya equivalent is _meldonya_ for a male friend ( _meldo_ "friend" (masculine) + the possessive ending _~nya_ "my") or _meldenya_ for a female friend ( _melde_ "friend" (feminine) + _~nya_ ). There is a handful of other words for "friend" in Quenya, both masculine and feminine, but masc. _meldo_ and fem. _meldë_ are perhpas the most common.
What does this mean in Quenya, can anyone translate it for me?: Ar equë Necko: “Ánin puhta yallë imbacindë, á hapta ilya or amborany` ar ilya minna mixa pucconya! Sá quantiel assanyar lepsili puncilyarinen!!! Á hapta cumbelya minnen putsë.”
The pronounciation was butchered...Feels like american people in general have an issue with articulation in other languages, since american english is rather..well, non-articulate?
I have nothing but admiration and respect for people building neosindrian as a modern, living language. Philologists of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your (n-1)lingualism!
Hannon le, for sharing this with us
It was explained to me by tolkien linguists that “Hannon le” was created by David Salo based on a Quenya verb and was very obscure. Most neo-Sindarin enthusiasts today say “Annon allen” literally “I give (thanks) to you”
David Salo may have created **hanna-* (I didn't know it was him - I'm taking your word for truth), which occurs in *hannon le* (or *le hannon* ), being obvivously adapted from Quenya *hanta-* "thank". But certainly he didn't created *le* , which is attested as "you", both as subject and indirect/dative object (hence its use in *hannon le* "thank you" - literally, "I thank *_to_* you"). Honestly, I see no reason why to use **anna-* instead of **hanna-* . It happens that **anna-* as the verb "thank" is even more obscure than **hanna-* (at least, the latter is analog to a Quenya verb - Sindarin and Quenya words analog to each other are not an uncommon thing). Plus, there is already an attested verb *anna-* "give" in Sindarin (Quenya *anta-* ), and using it as a second verb ("thank") may cause confusion. Last, since, as I have said, *le* is attested as "you" as an indirect/dative object (that is, an object that requires a preposition), the extrapolated form **allen* is unnecessary.
@@atanvardo5730 first and foremost, I didn’t make up the phrase, The first or the more accurate one. Secondly, Annon allen does make sense because Sindarin doesn’t fit the English mindset, it is based from Welsh and Irish; Welsh moreso. And one thing Celtic languages are infamous for are their phraseology, which is more ambiguous than English. Not to mention that quite unlike English, Quenya and Sindarin are inflected languages. So to clarify, Annon Allen (I give “thanks” to you) makes perfect sense. You’re not saying Annon len (I give you) because you’re not giving someone…to nothing. And even with the Quenya verb Hanna- it’s the same deal. So why Anna instead of hanna? Because there’s this mindset of using the most up to date words and phrases if any can be made.
@@jackwooten2374 You completely missed the point... The fact that Sindarin is (mostly) based on Welsh (but also, let it be said, in Old Norse and a couple of other languages, including Latin) has no importance _at all_ given that *le* is attested as an indirect object pronoun for "you", which makes it unnecessary to use an extrapolated form like **allen* in _any_ construction (the same way *le* could be used in *hannon le* , it can also be used in place of **allen* in a sentence like **annon le* , as both have "you" as an indirect object). Last, but not least, while the phonology of Sindarin is evidently based mostly (ornperhaps almost entirely) on that of Welsh, no one can say in which usages and to which extent Sindarin actually follows the "mindset" of Welsh; and, therefore, **annon le* (or **annon allen* - if, for some mysterious reason, someone prefers to use an unnattested pronoun instead of an attested one) as Sindarin for "I give thanks to you" is highly dubious construction, to say the least.
@@atanvardo5730 I’m afraid it’s you who’s missed the point. I’ll reiterate, sindarin is an INFLECTED language, much unlike English. The second person reverent pronoun “Le” is the nominative in original cannon. How do we have “Allen” then? No it’s not a different word completely, it is in fact the indirect object form that you mistook Le for. How can we have a word like “Allen” if it’s never written in cannon as far as some of us can see? Because it’s a contraction of the preposition “an” and pronoun “le” as “Anle”, but given phonetic rules of Sindarin (much like that of Welsh as a matter of fact) we have to mutate and compensate consonants. And the fact that le begins with “L” complicates matters further with the type of consonant L is in the first place. But to make a long story short: “An Le> Anle> Alle>Allen”. That’s how we get it. We also have another pronoun in same formation of “Ni” and “Ci” attested in works as “Enni” and “Echin” along with the reflexive first person pronoun “Anim”. Every one of these takes “an” and combines it with the pronoun to form the dative case.
Sorry for jumping all over the place, but that’s one of the only ways I know to explain it linguistically
If you want to hear the real thing just learn Welsh (Cymraeg) which was the Elvish language Tolkien based the phonetic sound on. Hywl fawr! ;)
Sindarin was based on Welsh, Quenya on Finnish. Hywl!
Yes it was, although the Elfish tongue Quenya, its Finnish text was his (Tolkien) main drive, but greatest influence was Cymraeg ( The sound & structure of Welsh) and was the foundation-stone of all Elvish languages invented by Tolkien. Quote: J .R.R Tolkien, subject: The Welsh language. Lecture given at the University of Oxford on the 21st October 1955 said : " Welsh is of this soil, this island, the senior language of the men of Britain, and Welsh is beautiful." He said not the same of Finnish. Diolch yn fawr. Wela i chi!
@@akodenkuniklo6109 Yes, Quenya was clearly based mostly on Finnish. It is a consense among Elvish scholars. There are many Quenya words that sound very similar to Finnish words. Quenya's syllabic scheme is very Finnish-like. Also, Quenya endings such as *-la* and *-nen* / *-inen* , for example, are very common in Finnish. But of course Tolkien didn't want Quenya to be a mere copy of Finnish, so he also drew inspiration from Greek, Latin and also a little bit from Italian. There is nothing of Welsh in Quenya. Plus, for Tolkien, Finnish was so beautiful that he said he got "intoxicated" with this language in his youth. Italian was another language he loved. Although he certainly found Welsh a beautiful language and cherished it as an old British tongue, it never got him "intoxicated" as Finnish did. And just like Quenya, Sindarin was not inspired by one single language (in case Welsh). Tolkien also drew inspiration from a couple of other languages, Old Norse among them. Even a touch of Greek and of Latin can be found on Sindarin. The Greek touch can be noted at least, for example, on the Sindarin ending *-on* (which also occurs in Quenya), and the Sindarin stress rules are the same as in Latin (as for the Quenya stress rules). Furthermore, between the two main Elvish languages, it was Quenya, the Finnish-inspired tongue, and not Sindarin, the one Tolkien chose to be considered the most beautiful of all Elvish tongues within his mythos. Among the languages he invented, Quenya was obviously the language of his heart.
It sounds to me like the translations are getting a little smudged by Jen. Like speaking, say, Japanese without an accent, it doesn't sound the same..
There are various Elvish languages in the mythology of _The Lord of the Rings_ . The most well known are Sindarin (which translates Gray Elvish) and Quenya (also known as High Elvish - but this is not a translation of the laguage's name). The language presented on this video is Sindarin. Quenya and Sindarin are the only relatively well developped Elvish languages, specially the former.
In *nauthannen i ned ôl reniannen* "I thought I had strayed into a dream", the article *i* ("the" - singular), which is also used as a relative pronun ("who", "which", "that"), should not be there. Even if David Salo's intention was to include the conjunction "that" ("I thought _that_ I had strayed into a dream"), the *i* doesn't fit, because *i* is not used as a conjunction (it is the definite article and a relative pronoun). This conjunction doesn't exist in Sindarin. We can just say *nauthannen ned ôl reniannen* "I thought I had strayed into a dream", with the conjunction "that" being implied. Tanslating word for word into English, we have: "I-thought (that) into (a-)dream I-strayed".
In Quenya, the sentence would render *sananen sa olorenna rannen* "I thought that I had strayed into a dream" (word for word: "I-thought that into(-a)-dream I-strayed") - unlike Sindarin, Quenya has a word for the conjunction "that": *sa* . [ Edit: In the Quenya translation, I had used _"anyanen_ for "I strayed", but the corret form is *rannen* . I corrected this. ]. Word order is more limited in Sindarin than in Quenya (because the latter is a higly inflected language); although, in the case of this sentence, it makes no difference.
For "thank you", we can say *hantanyel* in Quenya or *le hannon* or *hannon le* in Sindarin (both phrases mean literally "I thank you").
For "thanks" we can use Q. *hantalë* or S. *hannad* (both meaning literally "thanks-giving").
"Nauthannen i ned ôl reniannen"
"Mellonen(nin) mo evinedh"
"Ae boe i le eliathon, im tulithon"
Awesome! I'd love to learn more! :D
shes not doing it right
yeah she isn't
earendil calmia...you look like a she-elf
@@claudemakelele2856 LOL
She right
2:25 yeah.. in serious situations I think its best not too..
She's gorgeous
Lovely video. I think the sentence ''my friend'' translated in Elvish is Mellon nin or Mellow nin, (friend) Mellon or Mellow + (my) nin.
_Mellon nín_ -- the _í_ spelled with an acute accent, indicating this is a long vowel (pronounced with about two times the duration of a normal, short _i_ ). This is Sindarin for "my friend". The Quenya equivalent is _meldonya_ for a male friend ( _meldo_ "friend" (masculine) + the possessive ending _~nya_ "my") or _meldenya_ for a female friend ( _melde_ "friend" (feminine) + _~nya_ ). There is a handful of other words for "friend" in Quenya, both masculine and feminine, but masc. _meldo_ and fem. _meldë_ are perhpas the most common.
What does this mean in Quenya, can anyone translate it for me?:
Ar equë Necko: “Ánin puhta yallë imbacindë, á hapta ilya or amborany` ar ilya minna mixa pucconya! Sá quantiel assanyar lepsili puncilyarinen!!! Á hapta cumbelya minnen putsë.”
what about ET LENNEH TAURIEL
Please don't say whatever she told you to say at your high school reunion
The pronounciation was butchered...Feels like american people in general have an issue with articulation in other languages, since american english is rather..well, non-articulate?
how about a name mine is Karen can it be put in elvin or the word for cat maybe blue eyes my eyes are blue. lol
the name karen means pure so in elvish that would be puig or alluva depending on what variant of elvish you prefer there's over 30 of them.
Holly Lawliet who ok how about the Lord of the rings or forgotten realms from the books of RA Salvatore you would love the books
what the hell !
is this for real !?
Ulaer!!! 😆
Or _Úlairi_ , in Quenya.
my last name is hannonle :D
I feel shes mocking the language.
1:50 Excuse me but what the fuck is that pronunciation?