This is not only a problem in the art industry/academe but the whole rotten educational system. Education should be enriching and is adaptable to students and must nourish them.
I feel you on this so much! Stuck out the full degree in painting, but FIGHTING to work representationally for 4 straight years was ROUGH. The culture is elitist and classist!!! So glad to see youre here on youtube. We gotta build a more informal and approachable art world for real humans
MelMitch - Yes that would help, but that's no money in art either way except for the top 2-4% that have connections. There isn't much of a need for artists. I have people in my family that do it as a side job. The demand is there, but not as much as needed to "name your price". I don't know anyone making bank due to art skills.
@@HappyQuailsLC Abstraction has always been associated with the bourgeois, and the working class preferred more tangible, functionality to things: in art and in language, and in culture at large. That is not to say abstraction is somehow BAD in itself, but the class factor is undeniable.
What a great rant! I taught myself to paint when I was 12 (in 1973), had my first teacher when I was 13 - just one summer, about 9 or 10 lessons. Entered my paintings in a group show at the end of that summer. Loved every minute of those early years. Always took art classes in high school and university (while studying other subjects). Supplemented my training at night at the School of Visual Arts in NYC. Had day jobs for years, painted and took extra courses at night in all kinds of visual art. And now, at 63, I teach adults how to draw and paint here in the Southwest of France. What's the point of this story? Agnes, you are in control of your art - and your art training. Seek out training from people who will teach you what you want to learn, either from individual artists, or formal ateliers, internet, etc. The problem with art school is accreditation. To be accredited, a school must make you jump through all kinds of hoops to show that you are receiving a "well-rounded" education, which has f**k-all to do with what artists need to learn. I feel your frustration and I encourage you to understand the difference between "art school" and seeking the training you need to achieve your creative goals. Jim
@@13hehe Bonjour 13, You can read my response to Vladimir about my courses. If you want to know more than I wrote to him, ask me specific questions and I'll respond.
I've seen some guys painting and making the same mistakes in all their work, sometimes the best option is to have a mentor or teacher who makes the kind of art you want to create.
Art schools have one purpose: crank out more art teachers for art schools and continue the sales' pitch so that more students enroll and pay tuition, finish their programs and become art teachers. It's a self perpetuating scheme.
Imo you were the most artist person in the school. Art isn't about making things "only highly enlightened people can understand because, you know, "normal" people are too dumb to understand", it's about making pieces that you express yourself through and that people can feel emotions and relate to
@@mochimochi6357 let me guess, you're one of the ppl at her school? She's a real artist, she could throw trash together like that guy and call it art, but he could never even figure out the basic perspective of her's. "her art is basic" yet, many of these so call "artists" can't even do the basics, what does that say about them?
Absolutely the same experience. I am glad you quit when you realized you've had enough! I went through all the way and I swear I stopped drawing for a year after my graduation because of the amount of mental train these people's way of thinking had placed upon my relationship to my identity and the art, as art is an extension of the self, imo. And those people forced me to be them instead of me for 4 years straight. Really glad you escaped timely and are currently pursuing your own interests + spreading your pov!! Thanks!
I have always gotten annoyed with the expectation for artists to have a "this is x to symbolize y" reason for making something...as an artist I usually don't have a reason for making any of my art aside from "I thought it would look cool". Sometimes an apple is just an apple, and sometimes a shadow was an accidental smudge from your hand but *poof* now it's a shadow person
@@Halloweirdo2013 I had a professor like that once. Everything in one's art had to have a purpose beyond the literal. I remember getting berated for it in front of my fellow students!
@@V.iniciusAmaral what a very pretentious reply that is the perfect example of what the OP was describing is wrong with "traditional fine arts" artists and schooling
Amen! What's wrong with realism? The art world is just an endless series of gate keepers that mostly serves itself! Stay with your convictions; they will serve you well😊
7:52 crazy that a guy that puts trash together mindlessly and calls it “meaningful” even though the whole schtick surrounding his art is that it’s “all bullshit and anti-art” has the audacity to call anybody else’s work meaningless. Sounds like every other “edgy alternative” man trying to be relevant. He’s not special, neither is his rearranged garbage.
I did a foundation year at Central Saint Martins. So excited. Felt like I was about to start my life. So many people I studied with become severely mentally ill and there was no pastoral care. One of the fashion teachers told my friend's class "don't eat, don't sleep, don't fall in love" to focus on developing art and she developed anorexia. We also did no technical training, so I felt very disillusioned. Sorry you didn't have the experience you wanted, you're not alone 💛
This is the reason why studies show that people working in the “arts” show to be in the lowest IQ ranges, it’s just very few people are true artist, students, teachers, “artists” , etc. most of them are just lost souls trying to FAKE big time being an artist when they were never born with anything that would help them BE and grow into a real artist.
I went to St Martins before it merged with Central, 1976 (!). I went there after a wonderful art foundation course in my local Technical college, where I also did my A levels. It really was so much better than St Martins with some wonderful inspiring tutors. Art was truly my passion and I was excited about my new life in London. That passion was smothered by, looking back now, totally inept ‘teaching’. To be honest there was no teaching. I was actually asked to leave or rather, was advised I wouldn’t get my degree, so…. Three on my course of 9 or 10, left on the second year. One of those asked to leave was such a talented genius, unbelievable. I myself became extremely depressed and as you said, absolutely no pastoral care. Now I would close art schools down unless they actually teach some techniques like academic academies that teach old master techniques. I don’t think you can teach someone on how to be an artist. I was at the time very much into conceptual art. One ironic moment was when an external examiner said, “ my child could do that .”..such a classic put down, usual used against modern art by the so called ‘ignorant’ member of the public.
I had a similar experience and was isolated for most of my degree course. There were some really badly thought out projects that made me want to leave, but I stayed and fought. By leaving you have become a real artist and it's something to be proud of.
This is why I said 'Hell No!' to a Fine Art degree as a comic/concept art/ illustration girlie GCSE and A Level (Fine) Art was HELL. Never knew what the teacher or exam boards wanted for a high grade and it really made me depressed and anxious to create art. 😢 I'd much prefer an atelier to hone technical skills, and seek out tution from my favourite artists via (online) classes. Pity a uni degree is the only one you can get funded.
The exact same happened to me! Going to a Fine Art university was my dream but I dropped A Level Art because it was also affecting my mental health😭 there was so little room for creativity but such a high pressure environment. I still paint three years later and am much happier working at my own pace :)
Omg so relagable... I'm in totally same situation, trying to focus on comics, designs and illustration, but never gets appreciated for hard work and always feel left out! Trying to get ahold of myself when someone hangs things from the floor on the ceiling or coloring a square on a squared fence and they get all the praise! It's so frustrating sometimes really
your words in this express exactly how i feel about learning art institutionally!!!! i stopped because i would have to deal with the same challenges a few years later anyways, and i might as well do that now while making art i actually like with supplies i actually like😭😭 it’s suprising to me that more artists don’t see it this way
This is uncanny how much I can relate to your experience. I feel like most of the things you talk about here was thought or said by me at some point. For me, art was an outlet for as long as I can remember, I felt good at it, and tbh, it was the only consistent thing in my life. I went to art-profiled high school, and somehow (despite my depression flaring up at that time) I managed to finish it. So I was absolutely sure that going to art school was the most logical next step. Well, turns out it wasn't. For me it also wasn't a good fit, and the reasons are very similar as in your case. I felt like I was thrown into a place where I had to feel creative on command, because that's when my classes started, and I sure as hell couldn't do it. Then there was the issue of lots and lots of courses that weren't even remotely related to the field of study I chose, but I had to pass those too, to be able to continue doing what I really came there for. I just couldn't muster the energy to keep up with everything, and it made me think like I wasn't creative enough, skilled enough, persistent enough. So, I never finished it. I even tried at two different colleges, hoping that maybe I will do better at the second one. I didn't. So, my guess is, organized education just isn't my cup of tea 🙃 But after a few years and some thinking, I'm finally sure that there's nothing wrong with that. Cheers, I loved your video, and your art is absolutely amazing ❤
I love all art. Im an artist, art in general interests me, and I like bushing the boundaries on what art is. I really enjoy learning about art history and color theory, and the history behind classical/older art. I find it weird that the teachers were just rushing through that, when it's important to understand how far the arts as a whole have come and how styles have popularized and changed. Thanks for your video, I can totally relate to not feeling inspired at the right times to get classwork done as you described.
Hello, a former art school studet here. A few months ago I recently transferred out of art college. I realized how unnecessary some of the classes were. I started thinking "when am I ever going to draw, am i good enough. I have now transferred to a normal university. The weird part of art school was having to think non-representationaly. I wanted to dive straight into my career. Classes were long and some days I would have to build a structure and than sit their bored for the last 2 hours. I hated the classes too. I realized how pointless, 2d and 4d was. I found myself wanting to learn academically, I felt in a way "dumb". Dumb meaning I am taking these so called easy classes while my friends are expanding their knowledge at normal college. This is my experience at art college. Everyone has a different opinion and this is just my opinion.
When you transferred into a regular college, did you still major in art? And if so, did you like it better than the art school? I also wonder if art programs at regular colleges focus more on practical, technical skills than self-expression?
Art school is weird because i do think it’s good that we do fundamentals but i also struggled for so many of the assignments to really see the “why.” I realized i really missed on learning in other subjects, and felt draining to be doing monotony with no passion 24/7. I think its important for art majors to have time to do passion projects between learning, because if you don’t you just feel awful. I ended up going to a normal college as well and am much happier double majoring, and getting to learn and expand knowledge well still working on getting ready for my career. I feel like art college is so insular.
so true!!! im in the same boat rn feeling like im getting out of college dumber than i entered. my brains wants to be stimulated so bad in class and instead i sit there bored looking out the window. i wish i had quit in the 1st semester.
sorry for sounding a bit aggressive on this video😂 i still have trouble putting these last few years into words. But if you have any experience with art school, please share your experience in the comments so people can get a less biased understanding and expectations ❤ thankyou for watching❤
in art school at the moment and oh im struggling so hard. attending class feels useless sometimes and it breaks my heart because i wanted to enjoy this so much but i really just disagree with the course structure and culture. i also notice a lot of people in my course struggling and being discouraged (+breedings this weird comparison and disparity in quality of work) just because of the course's lack of emphasis on foundational skills and i dont think art has to be based on technical skill level at all (they emphasise that so much lol) but i think it is still so important because it is a building block to work from, it builds confidence to express more conceptual ideas if that makes sense. and that aside yeah i personally just struggle socially, i guess theres a certain crowd that to me feel really pretentious and judgey to people outside their bubble i find it hard to connect idk
I understand you! I, a few months ago too, dropped out of art school despite being one of the best in my class. My biggest problem came with what my future would be and how I could support myself financially, I didn't like to depend on fashions or art trends at the time, I wanted to make art in the way I liked for my own pleasure. I really identified with everything you were saying, and I'm glad to know that I wasn't the only one who felt this way. I really felt that the art school wanted to replace my vision and my style with something more abstract and different to what I liked, in the end my final works turned out to be products that I wasn't proud of and didn't even represent me, but that everyone seemed to like. Now I am doing other studies completely different, and I am very grateful for my experience in that school, because without it, I would not have realized what I really wanted for my life.
I went to art college in California for 2 years in 1993. You make great points. I was also maddened by their love of abstract. Being an artist is great but going to school for it is ridiculous on all levels. Real art learning happens in work environments and personal projects. Art college had zero real effect on my skill or income. If a degree is all you want, get it in different lucrative field, then graduate and get literally any job doing what you makes you happy. I sound like a dad but that is my best advice.
Your former school colleagues were jealous of your talent. Good for you finding a new route, that takes a great deal courage. Doesn't seem like art schools actually help people. Ive known at least two people that went through 4 years of art school and literally quit doing any art whatsoever.
It was absolutely brave for you to make that decision! I started making art portfolio (for art college) last year and I quit it as soon as I finished my first project. Every single school requires you to have some stupid “reason” or “logic chain” of your art work, but sometimes I just created it because I think I’ll look nice! The whole “why” thing is too stressful that I immediately decided that it’s not for me as soon as l realized it. Now I’m launching my own art brand and I’m doing very well! Can’t imagine what kind of a misery I’m in if I finished my portfolio and went to the art school.
i honestly don’t think that reason thing is all that bad. it kind of made me describe my work in a better way but i agree there doesn’t always need to be a deeper meaning. it looking good is a good enough reason! but i do think it’s important to be able to describe what you made with more technical terms
@ Yes you’re right! I like to create my art for a deeper meaning too, so that It kind of has an energy flow or something. But I just think it’s stressful to be forced to assign meaning to every single project. Meaningless art has a unique calm and confortable vibe. You know sometimes it’s one thing when you genuinely want to do something, but it’s a whole other thing when you are forced to do it even when you don’t feel like doing it.
I am so sorry about your experience at art school. Ive always wanted to go but never had the means. But honey, your art is amazing!!!❤❤ You don't NEED art school!!! Looks like you are doing great all on your own!! 😘
I 100% feel you on this. I also did one year of art school and the culture was elitist as fuck. Also ut was 75% theory and 25% practice. One professor even said that we had to use "difficult" word to appear more intelligent. We were pushed to make abstract art and if you did something that was'nt for an assignment, you had lower chances to get a good grade. Illustration was regarded as lesser.
so real. so much of this was exactly what i went thru... i had a voice in my head that said that continuing with art school would likely cause me to stop enjoying the process of making art forever 🥲 after dropping out, it took many years for me to be able to make art regularly again let alone identify publicly as an artist. its been almost a decade of working through the traumatic and negative associations i had with making art and being an "artist". i truly believe that everyone should have access to art and have the opportunity to be inspired to create things that are meaningful regardless of external expectations. hopefully your video reaches all those who also feel ostracized by the traditional institutional art industry/scene and become encouraged to stay true, manifest their creative visions and build a supportive community ❤
This reminds me of Albert Camus’ Create dangerously in the sense that those people doing the opposite of what society wants is just as soulless as doing the same as what society wants and an artist should do what they resonate with.
i recommend trying to find an institution that aligns with your philosophies. i know in places like greece and italy there is much more of an appreciation for and a focus on classical and neoclassical art because these are more culturally relevant to the place, whereas in nordic countries i think there is a lot of emphasis on departing from historical ways and trying to be avant-garde (speaking with limited knowledge of this area). definitely do consider finding another place to study and doing a bit more research about the curriculum (what you will be asked to do day to day especially)... but also you don't need to go to school at all! maybe try find an artist residency you can do in a cool place that inspires you and just make the art you want to make every day and see where you end up :)
One of the best things an art school will do is teach the student how to "see." Often students that go to an art school can't observe the objects accurately. This can also be self-taught, but a good school can speed up the process ten-fold. Once I heard this from one of the professors, I started to focus on that concept specifically.
Yep. I learned this from my art teacher in high school (I attended his extracurricular art classes). But then, all he'd give us to paint was dead nature, and eventually, I just started painting random shit from my head, since I got so bored.
The best art is the best in spite of itself, the artist has managed to make a work rise above its genre and style, whatever that genre and style is. As someone who spent six years in art college, I would always advise people not to listen too much to the lecturers but spend the precious time available to find yourself and explore what you are interested in. The exploring of mediums is fine for someone who isn't sure about what direction they want to take.
I think a lot of claims you make here are true not only of art school but of any institutionalized education system. As someone that decided not to pursue an art degree also because of personal and mental health reasons, your video has really resonated with me, I'm glad you were able to find a different way that worked for your path as an artist! And really loved the canvases in the background, got yourself a new subscriber and a fan of your art!
A college dropout here 🫶🏻 I can relate to what you went through in many ways. I started college when I was 21, I studied fashion design. In retrospect, I feel like I was too young mentally to truly understand what I wanted and like the pressure from home and society to make a decision like that isn’t fit to everyone at this age. Second, all the technical stuff I couldn’t learn in class since there were one professor teaching 40 students, and I’m with ADD, dyslexic and I just can’t understand in these situations. So 80% of my studies were done from UA-cam ( even 10 years ago there was plenty of videos that taught sewing 😂). I feel like these days you can learn almost everything online. I taught myself so many things from art to knitting to languages. We don’t need to go into adulthood with huge debts anymore.
Omg!!!! I know what you’re talking about, I support you standing your ground! I was drawing my whole child and teenage years and at 23 I quit art because of those same type of a-holes and just today I asked myself “why?”, and then I stumbled upon your video! It’s really resonated with me. It’s ok to not fit the mold! You do you! ❤ sending love
I'm really not sure why there are so many comments saying, "You didn't do enough research." LIKE FIRST OF ALL, researching/reading/looking into a program is *completely different* than actually being in the program itself! It's literally the equivalent of reading a job description and working the job. It's always going to be different in some aspect when you're actually there. I read amazing things about my art program in school and even had friends going there at the time recommending it to me, but actually being there was not at all what I thought it would be. Trying new things like this is what makes us realize as artists what our true path is. With or without school.
This video is spot-onnnn! However, I will say that I was lucky and had awesome classmates and some good teachers (others weren't so great). Unfortunately, I also developed some gnarly mental health issues and barely made it through my BFA. I completed my degree back in 2010, and I remember feeling completely burnt out and ironically, I had lost all confidence in my ability to become an artist, despite completing a degree. I felt like my artwork got more inconsistent and worse because I had to complete projects and courses I had zero interest in. I started to overthink everything I worked on, and couldn't enjoy what I was doing because of subjective "grading". I noticed you wrote that you may have undiagnosed ADHD. I didn't know I had ADHD/celiac disease until a few years ago and realized that I was struggling with rejection sensitivity dysphoria, demand avoidance, and an inflamed nervous system, which aren't good traits to have while enrolled in art school...I think a lot of amazingly creative and talented people are neurodivergent, but art schools tend to create the complete opposite environment that would allow neurodivergent people to flourish and learn. I'm so glad you are still making art (you're so talented! :)) I also do not think anyone needs a formal education in art to become a successful artist. I love your videos and feel inspired to pick up my paintbrush.
I worked my art until 25yo when it became obvious that my box of colors wouldn’t provide for a family. In 1980 I got an engineering degree BSME. Best decision I ever made. Now, in retirement and fanatical independent, surrounded my family, I work my art on my own terms not caring a wit if I ever sell a thing. Life is good.
9:55 "The only time in my life that I have never painted anything for months on end was in art school" is soooo real. Looking back I regret I didn't use my time at art school to just do whatever I like and not worry about grades, but when youre forced to do bullshit projects unrelated to the course it makes you so uninspired and depressed. I hated it.
If you search for the teachers you admire and want to learn from, which takes searching out, then you will benefit from their knowledge. I don't think throwing out all learning to be 'your own voice' is the best way to go. Unless you search out how paint works, assuming you are learning painting. Self teaching takes a lot of time. There are many books that one can buy. For me, sculpture is easy until you get into bronzes, then you will have to learn from somebody. Painting is relatively easy, if you're talented, on the concept of application, but learning to change something from three dimensional to two dimensional is the tricky part- and make it believable.
It's so hypocritical to talk about the ambiguity of art and how there isn't a set way you have to do it, but then turn around and set a 'right path' and the 'right reason' to make art for students it's such bullshit.
In regard to point 1, I agree that it feels like a waste of time doing stuff you aren’t interested in, however at least for me the whole reason I went to art school was to take myself out of my comfort zone. Some people don’t want that and that’s ok! It’s really important to do a bunch of research as to what you’re getting into
I am sad to hear these things. Was encouraged to go to art school by my elementary teacher but still I wasn't really that gifted or determined. In my broader family I have one recognized artist, Cvetko Lainovic, he was able to draw amazing portraits with just a pencil in about 5 mins. I just think you should never give up on what you feel your true calling is plus your paintings are amazing! Maybe people who really want to paint all the time should just do it without going to all those schools. I wish all people would recognize true art and pause to find meaning in it. Regardless of that, the most important thing is you love it. Following you rn!
dont worry! i think its entirely individual and i think for many artists it develops them immensly! Most of my friends there said it was the best thing they’ve done, and the only way you’ll know is by going. Even though i didn’t like it got to know a lot about myself as an artist so if you go with an open mind, while not forgetting to listen to yourself, i’m sure you’ll learn a lot!
I think you are being very generous in equating the quality of your work with the 'bullshit' variety of work. Yours is far superior and more honest. I went to Chelsea School of Art in London and had the same experience. I am nearly 70 years old now and have the confidence to say unequivacally that it is pretentious, and conceptional art is for the most part absolutely meaningless.
I enjoyed listening to your experience and opinion it's given me something to think about when it comes to art school and their philosophy. On an editing note, I encourage you to lengthen the time the photos are on screen. I would have liked to look at them longer as you spoke to absorb them a little. ^-^
Hi! Mexican artist here I study in ENPEG (Escuela Nacional de pintura, escultura y grabado) “La Esmeralda” which is supposed to be the most prestigious fine arts school in latin america, and I totally feel what you are saying, I entered there because I love to draw and paint, specially superheroes, and everyone is like: andy warhol this, marina abramovich that, and everytime someone tries to do academic painting, or even try to talk about michellangelo or caravaggio in art history class, all of the classmates start to eyeroll, the proffesors skip that because they don’t like it and I don’t know if I made a wrong decission because i feel rejected even though everyone keeps telling me how good I draw, but at this point i feel is pointless!
oh..by the way.. Daniel Clowes (the writer/artist of Ghost World) has drawn some funny comic strips about the art school experience. They were put in his collected book "Eightball". I don't know if it's hard to find that book now though, it's from the 90s. in fact,,,I think his "art school confidential" strip was made into a film. He even had a fantasy art classmate who only painted dragons.
Painter to painter, heart to heart, i couldn't agree with you more! The industry really sucks !! I was lucky to attend an art conseratory for high school and squeezed all the sap i could out of my training there. But i couldn't justify indebting myself forever (in the States) to go to art school for university and be forced back into square one, drawing cubes and spheres in graphite. And deal with everyone in "the scene", which is really just a cool kid competition. The whole institution is so fanatical, ironically. So annoying. I spent years working in entertainment instead thinking it would satisfy me creatively, but it didn't, and I'm finally returning to myself now. Painting again. I'm happy to hear you stay true to yourself and honor your creative voice. This is what we need!
My mother in law is also Agness, and I went to art Schoole on Austin Texas back in the good old days 2002. There were no internet or phones, it was a nice time.
When I went to gymnasiet I got to visit a folkhögskola/högskoleförberedande utbildningar and honestly it was exactly like what you described even back in 2018-2019. Doing a lot of different things just for the sake of trying things and nowhere did anything about teaching the art fundementals or specific path in the education. These kinds of schools are for those that aren't really sure what they want to do artistically and that has it's place. But for people like us that know what we like to do and have a clear goal with our art I honestly don't know if many art schools in Sweden can provide what you need. I've had some aquintances even go to denmark or other countries for things like concept art and more directed educations. My solution was mostly doing self-learning and looking for pockets of knowledge online (though I'd like to find something irl just haven't yet.).
The school of art I attend does not follow any of the steps you mentioned. My idea of art school was exactly what you described, yet I was lucky to find out that we are self-directed, given resources, and 24/7 access to the studios. We may need to attend tutorials and sessions, but not all of them are compulsory, and coursework mainly involves documenting our work/research and present it in exhibitions.
Currently finishing up my last year of art school and I feel THE SAME. I wish i quit after one term and pursued technique-focused figurative studies in ateliers instead. You are so wise and brave and so young too! Congratulations on making the right decisions for you.
Thank you for this video and your kvetching. Yours is no rant but a valid witnessing account of the state of art education in the West. There is the need for focus and concentration. Not all art students seek the same things or have the same objectives neither should they or the faculty be close-minded and condemn or put down styles and approaches that hark back to earlier motifs. Robert Henri in his book on art instruction stressed that the instructor is simply a tool for the student. He or she is at the student's beck and call. However according to his approach, the burden rests with the student to ask for help and to enlist faculty support. My experience at the Arts Students League in New York City seemed to reflect at least something akin to what Robert Henri said and wrote about art instruction. But for some, it had been a veritable supermarket for whatever the student wanted or needed. Tuition was not locked into the semester system. You paid as you go, and it possibly had the lowest tuition of all art schools in the New York metropolitan area. Alas, this was decades ago. I do not know if they had changed their approach since then. One of the wonderful instructors from that era when I briefly attended was David A. Laffel. He works in the tradition of portraiture and still life of the likes of Rembrandt and the other Dutch masters. Unfortunately, I could never register for his courses not only because they were in huge demand but because he only taught mornings, and I was working a day job. You see, back in the day we had only incandescent and fluorescent lighting. Daylight was essential to paint in color. Perhaps this has changed with the advent of LED full spectrum lighting. Your experience in art school reminds me of what I had heard about New York's School of Visual Arts whose focus had been on modernity. The students then clamored for live models and for learning how to draw and paint them traditionally. Sometimes, the pendulum pivots back or at least the students being schooled in modern trends might at times seek a counterbalance. I hope you can find a happy medium perhaps in another art institute or atelier. To me, your work that I can see in the background of your video looks well executed. And perhaps just painting suffices. The creative act provides its own education. One's skills might be strengthened simply by doing. Each work constitutes a journey of discovery.
I identified myself so much with this video, I appreciate well done arts, something that gives to realize that the person studied years to do this and not something that seems done in 1 second
Felt the same way about art school. I ended up leaving after the second year when I found out about the online schools. I did Watts Atelier online and it saved my life. Now I’ve just been learning from books and going to a lot of life drawing sessions. I teach my own classes now and still do my own exhibitions, still making art everyday and have a good art community where I live. It will be interesting to see what those pretentious students have to say a few years later. Almost all of the students I went to art school with are no longer even doing art, I suspect it will be the same at most of these art schools.
This is very much what I felt when I studied Literature in Uni to become a writer. It made me overthink everything I wrote and many of my colleagues and the entire programme environment was very snobbish. Ten years later I've managed to start writing again, with confidence.
Degrees give you a network. Todays degree causes do not give you the discipline needed to go out along into the shark invested art word. I love your work please please go on with your art. Just don’t stop. Thanks for sharing.:-) lots of people do need the support and encouragement.
I'm about into my 4th year into my fine arts degree (drawing major), and this video is so real lol... I relate to your story a lot as there was a time where I really struggled with making art and had also tried to force myself into making more "conceptual" work. There were many times where I was made to feel like I wasn't "smart" enough or on the same level as my peers, very discouraging. idk if it's just me, but I also feel so alienated at school lol... very cliquey and despite preaching inclusivity, its rlly not that inviting. Like most sects in academia there will always be your pretentious crowd, it just sucks when its the crowd you want to be in... and I feel like to be successful in art, you have to have a lot of connections...but a lot of the relationships you make will be transactional.
I just begun my master’s in art history and so far throughout my education I have begun to slowly realize the same stuff you are talking about. The artist I originally wanted to write my thesis about was completely rejected because he wasn’t enough «known». They just almost mockingly asked me: «is this a recognized arist»?, like what is a «recognized» artist anyways? An artist is an artist and he has exhibitions is in Poland like?? The art world, epsecially the academic and institutional art world is coated with this thick layer of snobbery that’s not even relevant to art’s quality. It’s just snobbish people that are trying to protect their made-up upper «knowledge» and «taste» in art in order to fool everyday people outside the field. It’s so stupid. And ruining for the beautiful world that is art and it’s history and for aspiring future artists. I’ts all about power and fear of loosing status.
I did the whole degree thing in the 1960s, was miserable most if the time but family circumctances made it necessary to finish the full 4 years. I learned most of what I needed in the foundation year and was just marking time for the last 3 years.
There is something mesmerizing about Scandinavian rage. It's like seeing your 80 year aunt swear after spilling her tea. So much repressed anger unleashed.
@@AgnesHjalArt I've never been to art school, but I am a teacher, and watching this video made wonder what is going on with art teachers. I always tell students who don't like my methods, its fine find a way it works for you. I always reinforce to them that education is often just theoretical, and based on what the most influential people in the field believe, but if it doesn't work in real life, then they should figure out what does for them.
@ES-qm5hr Kind of like society in general... you're given a hard time if what works for you doesn't work for others. I have had many people interfere in whatever I was doing at that moment(art-related or not). It was because the way I was doing things wasn't what they would have done(and it backfires about 65% of the time). They need to back off and let things run themselves!
Art is the freedom of your expression.Be you and love what you create and what you create will be yours and be amazing.Paint your way and this will get you noticed. I m a 57 year old artist who has been creating from childhood. I made money painting for people portrait commissions.Now that I’m retired I just finally paint what I want and then I get my passion for painting and I love painting for my self and for my soul.Keep painting and I love your work so unique.
Omg that so some thing new, I was thinking going to an art school, and with my capabilities but if they have different methods than mine and it comes with lots of unnecessary intention, then I don't want to waste my time for it as well. This video is really an eye opener, tysm
I dropped out for the same reasons after taking two academic vacations. I was often told that my art style is bad without any explanations, and that I should stop drawing fantasy stuff and do more conceptual stuff instead of illustration. It didn't come naturally to me and I finally had a mental break as well as some physical health issues bc of working until super late and only getting like a few hours of sleep for months. I quit and now studying smh else just so I could have a day job until I can get into making art as a business. It took me two years to even want to create something again. I used to cry every time i tried to draw something, because it just didn't feel good enough. Just this month I decied to try pixel art and I finally feel interest in art again.
i did alot of art classes in my teens and i remember it helping me learn a lot and really fast, ive not been learning jack doo doo since i left because ive had a terrible structure (cos of mental illness) and im schedule hopping XD But right now exactly, i have been learning how effective a good schedule would be for me and trying some out, just trial and error really. But I think if you are wanting to learn about art, there is pleanty of resources online and is fully possible to make your own classes/course for the amount of time you want to learn for. if you can there are courses online for small fees! and for the rest of us who have no money then you might be able to get help from art communities/discord servers, to help you make a curriculum for yourself with the stuff your interested in!
I 100% agree with this your point about abstract art. It’s nice but some of us like to tell a story with our art and we want that story to be understood by everyone. You shouldn’t need an essays to explain your art because it’s just a bunch of squiggle lines or a meaningless red paint stroke across a canvas. Sounds like some of your old classmates are jealous. Creative fields have become even more classist and less diverse than 30 years ago because of the arrogance and lack of funding (in the UK anyway). I feel like some creatives almost want to keep it that way and don’t want diversity in the field.
11:36 is actually interesting because what you say about not liking the elitist, snoobish "cultured people vs general public" is exactly what I felt about this online art course I was taking at the time. They were strictly a classical type course that supposedly teaches the secrets of the old masters, but the problem was that there were a lot of ideals they had that turned me further off from classical and academic art as a whole. They didn't believe in using pencil sharpeners referring to them as "a kid's toy" they shunned ever using blend stumps, they completely would shit on other artists who would use specific shading techniques like the 5-pencil method. And they were heavily against using photo references saying that it could stifle your creative potential as an artist and that "as a professional fine artist" you were only to draw from life. To be fair, I do encourage drawing from life to better understand how things work in 3d that can better help you translate it on a 2d surface, but I also understand that not everyone (myself included) has the luxury of having a life drawing class they can go to on a daily basis to practice from real life models, not everyone can afford those expensive ass plaster cast reproductions of The David, and if you're working a typical 9 to 5 job (like most people do) Then sure as hell not everyone has the time, or space to make models of a face or cast to practice on from scratch, but they would never account for that and I would read in the comment sections to their UA-cam videos of people bringing up some of these same points and they would respond quite snobbishly with stuff like "Just use a mirror to draw your own face" and stuff of that nature. They had a lot of these videos on their channel where they would try to sell you on their course, and they talk about a lot of the ideas they think about what it takes to become a real artist. Much of it is just them boasting about how great their Russian art schools are while deliberately using the worst examples of schooling from other countries to imply that they are the best there is compared to everyone else in art education. They also would say stuff like "There is no such thing as a self-taught artist" and believed that true art skills only came from "having a good teacher" which was basically just another ploy for them to sell their program to you. In addition to what I've mentioned, they also had this insane judgmental system where they rated a good artist to bad on a scale from 0 to 3, and it was insane indeed. They would say that if you lacked understanding of any of the elements of composition which they taught (there were 15 of them) then you were at level 0 regardless. It all just came across as so pompous and crazy to me, and the snobbish tone in which they talked didn't help with that either. It completely reinforced the bias I had against classical art and art education that it was all just a snobby, pompous, and elitist practice. I actually don't like a lot of renaissance art anymore because now I can't not associate it with all the things I've mentioned, but I still try daily not to let experiences like this get in the way of me being open minded to more traditional forms of art since I have started to find interest in a bit more traditional academic artworks like John William Waterhouse and William Morris Hunt, but now I'm mostly into more fantasy esque/animeish type art that's completely stylized, but still manages to pull of a bit of that classical/painterly type look like with Dinoartforame and Xilmo.
Thankyou for saying this!! I agree 100% that the elitist attitude is not exclusive to any type of art. And i honestly suspected that what i felt was even worse at the classical institutions. This is why i’ve decided to just teach myself and stay away hahaha, or at least find my own less pretentious community. Thankyou for taking the time to comment, it’s so interesting to read how similair people’s experiences are even in completely different parts of the art scene
@@AgnesHjalArt Yeah. I've found that just taking what I find helpful for my practice and ignoring the rest of the pretentious bullshit really helped me improve a lot, it's even better when you can just do it from the comfort of your own home and so don't have to see a teacher actively getting in your way or telling you how to learn.
i just started uni and due to complaints of previous students about doing classes that aren't going to help them, they've said that i dont need to go to each workshop or class, if theres a workshop that doesnt interest me or help me progress i dont necessarily need to attend and they said its perfectly fine if i dont want to learn some of the things that theyre teaching (like sculpting, plastering, and printmaking). they give me lots of freedom to do the things i want to do, and im really happy with the course so far. theres life drawing workshops coming this week for me and im gonna try and make sure to tell the tutors to keep doing them since it will help me progess, and im sure theres many other students in my class that want more too.
man i wish my school was like that. mine is so awful. my “drawing” class has taught us nothing and its taught by a poet who doesn’t draw. nothing wrong with being a poet but id at least want the person trying to teach drawing to have drawn before. we kind of just get instructed to draw and that’s it. we don’t learn any new skills and we literally did for one class out of the entire semester. i really hate it because i just can’t learn like this. i’m contemplating dropping out
I really identify with you about the elitist world of art. I am also a designer and it’s the same in that world. Just create your own world on your terms. I would love to see more of your work.
As someone who went to a folk high school myself to try out animation and as someone who has a vocational school degree in art, its important to know when applying to FHS that its not a school in the same sense as vocational school or university. Its a prep school for art school for people who want to try out new stuff and learn the basics for proper art school, so they arent out of their depth when they get there. It also isnt as personalised as real schools as everyone has the same courses except maybe one optional. Its a great place to go try out new things, but it really shouldnt be considered the same as real art school where you get your own study plan and can choose your courses and have enough time to do them. Courses in vocational schools were over two months versus in FHS where they are maybe two weeks or so. Also you will get no degree from there and they often cost money so you really have to think wether its worth it if you know what you wanna already do.
I am fortunate enough to go to a university where the tutors had similar experiences to this when they attended art school. While this has created a system that encourages us to challenge the university, it is still a pathway that is roadblocked by finances and right now it is incredibly expensive to live as a student in my country. I can relate to your experience, as although there are concept art degrees as well as fine arts and design etc., I have more of an interest in the artistic trades like jewellery, tattoo, smithing etc. I think we have forgotten about and are missing the importance of apprenticeships. I would be much happier there than in university.
You make so many good points. I remember a TV show where the character was walking through an art gallery, and he was incredulous at the nonsensical artwork. He said, "Wow, this looks like a pile of junk! The other guy asked, "What is it called?" The first guy read the title: 'A Pile of Junk.' I'm currently experimenting with different mediums and subjects. UA-cam has a lot to offer... for free.
I did a year of art college in the UK 22 years ago. It was an amazing atmosphere - it was the last few years of the UK non-corporate, old fashioned, grimy uni atmosphere really - grimy, smoky cafes, bars and flats full of cool, intellectual people - so I'll never forget the atmosphere, but the course was a mistake. I didn't realise they expected you to have ideas for an abstract, personal set of work or personal style already. I thought it was going to be just the learning the history of art part while perfecting my style. And I wasn't really "into" art, I didn't go to art galleries on my own and stuff then - I was expecting to pick that up on the course- and the other people on the course were much more ahead of me in terms of knowing the current art scene and knowing galleries, local artists etc. I wasn't a total anti-intellectual, I was willing to pick up the philosophy side of it. I don't think they'd have been fights like the one described in this video either, we all liked each other and none of us wanted to criticize what the others were doing. Oh and... there was this really unstable guy who printed animal/bestial p*rn off the internet (which we were all new to then, this being 2002), and reproduced it painted in big. I think he wanted to top Jeff Koons. I don't remember if he got in trouble, his work was thrown out but i don't think he suffered any repercussions, even for inflicting that on non-consenting classmates (and that stuff is illegal here). It was surely a different time.
The best advice is just keep working. Make. Make. Make. In doing anything a lot, you will improve, or, you'll discover that you should focus on a different style, a different technique, a different medium. Self discovery, in other words. Ultimately, like it was said in the video, you will have to work out your own personal path. Or, you'll become a copy machine of others works. Art as a career is hard!
It is really tough having to show up every day for things creatively. I am in my 40s now, though I didn't end up becoming an artist because it was too all consuming for me. I am an Architect. I have children now and so life gets very crowded with things that I cannot say no to. I worked really hard to have a method to be "on" for creative output, and then to be able to switch off for other parts of life. I hope you do really great, and for a very long time, but just thought I'd share my thoughts, and remind you of the idea of endurance.
I would've made a better experience at art school if I had an artistic voice to begin. I loved learning techniques, I have fond memories of art school, but I simply wasn't mature enough in terms of personal voice. I was also disillusioned by how insulated the whole circle is, with their galleries for more people like them. I realized that I wanted to go in a different direction.
Well said- all of it! I hate “artist speak and attitude” I want to learn, I create out of love for the subject and beauty, to add more positive and beautiful to this already beautiful world
i wanted to go to some sort of art school, even animation school but because i live in denmark where there isn't the biggest options for that and i wasn't willing to move to another country + i didn't have the money for it. i just didn't went and i just focused on learning it by myself. now 10 years later i feel like i'm on level with someone who has graduated art school and i can even animate at a intermediate level. art school is not for everyone, i don't regret not going.
Not all schools are like that. It highly depends on school and location. Though toxicity (coming from some teachers) and strict following of school traditions is smth I also experienced. Art wasn't smth abstract, it contained tons of technical methods. And another extreme: anything not about actual drawing/painting was viewed as useless even by teachers so was almost nonexistent in the whole process. We could come and go at any time to work on final projects, and it was never a problem to join another group or find a special place for additional studying. Ah, I miss it so much :D
This was such a good video, thank you so much for making this! It’s really good to hear someone talk about our school for European perspective, as most of the videos are from American perspective. As someone who lives in the UK, I think our arts education system is similar, as we do a foundation course before university, that is also very experimental. As someone who also has a strong idea what I want to do, that’s more towards painting and illustration, I also feel the same way about doing a very experimental and unfocused course. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and experiences, it’s been really helpful hearing this!
broo im currently going trough this, i have so many conflicting feelings about my experiences but ultimately im just glad i realized that this simply isnt for ME. I cant quite deal with the fact that ive wasted the last two years of my life so ill try powering trough one more year to finish it, but damn sometimes the thought of having a minimum wage job feels more freeing and exciting than the thought of having to go back to a free art uni with extremely nice people and professors, which makes me feel crazy but im glad im not the only one feeling this way. Like in a way it feels like one huge after-school activity but its happening all day, every day, with no prior actual "school" time to take a break from, so its just hours after hours of doing nothing that you actually wanna do, but its not "hard" per say, so i end up just feeling kinda dumb in this weird space in between?? Cant bring myself to actually care about the projects, not being able to concentrate while working at the school, and just constantly being bored and unmotivated, drains me in a way ive never experienced before in my life. Only right now, that ive basically been forced to take a short break to finish all the classes i skipped out on (i genuinely couldnt keep up with so many projects all at once), did i finally get a chance to breathe and rediscovering the reason WHY i do art in the first place is what made my life purpuseful again, and art school was the one thing preventing me from actually taking a breather and THINKING about what i ACTUALLY wanna do this whole time, in a way i feel fucking robbed of my time but at least i know this aint it.
You know what I quit Architecture because lot of people look down to others architect. They feel all of thems are competitors. And I am starting right now my art journey and I was so shock that the experience of you and me are just the same. The difference is that our studies. Maybe I just want to be alone. 😵
Art is individual, if you have the passion and talent you will make it as an artist, I never considered art school. I don’t want to be cloning everyone else. Art comes from within and practice and more practice you will learn all you need. No one can teach you what you want from art.
I can relate to much of what you say. I enjoyed art school to a degree, but I also found it very frustrating and disheartening experience. If I'd known back then what I know now, I would have taken a very different route as, ultimately, every artist has to teach themselves anyway, through repeated practice, and trial and error.
This video makes me feel way more secure in my decision to not go to art school. It also reminded me of when i was in excel tecc for studio art and how much i hated it during my second/final year, along with how i now think that my teacher for that class wasn't just being a dickhead (even tho he was), that he was more or less a part of a bigger problem, that being the institutions and how they operate. They seem to see art through a snobbish and monetary lense rather than see art for what it actually is, an expression of the soul of one's being and not just something to put on your wall as you pretend to be "deep" with a stick up your ass.
This is not only a problem in the art industry/academe but the whole rotten educational system. Education should be enriching and is adaptable to students and must nourish them.
I feel you on this so much! Stuck out the full degree in painting, but FIGHTING to work representationally for 4 straight years was ROUGH. The culture is elitist and classist!!! So glad to see youre here on youtube. We gotta build a more informal and approachable art world for real humans
i’m so glad somebody can relate, i felt so bad over not fitting in and sharing other people’s love for it so thankyou for your comment!
Are you saying in contrast to working abstractly?
I remember how, even when working representationally, my style would always come through. Sometimes instructors loved it and sometimes they hated it.
MelMitch - Yes that would help, but that's no money in art either way except for the top 2-4% that have connections. There isn't much of a need for artists. I have people in my family that do it as a side job. The demand is there, but not as much as needed to "name your price". I don't know anyone making bank due to art skills.
@@HappyQuailsLC Abstraction has always been associated with the bourgeois, and the working class preferred more tangible, functionality to things: in art and in language, and in culture at large. That is not to say abstraction is somehow BAD in itself, but the class factor is undeniable.
as an art school graduate still dealing with all the toxic/elitist/bs messaging art school gave me this was soooo comforting and empowering to watch.
What a great rant!
I taught myself to paint when I was 12 (in 1973), had my first teacher when I was 13 - just one summer, about 9 or 10 lessons. Entered my paintings in a group show at the end of that summer. Loved every minute of those early years. Always took art classes in high school and university (while studying other subjects). Supplemented my training at night at the School of Visual Arts in NYC. Had day jobs for years, painted and took extra courses at night in all kinds of visual art. And now, at 63, I teach adults how to draw and paint here in the Southwest of France.
What's the point of this story? Agnes, you are in control of your art - and your art training. Seek out training from people who will teach you what you want to learn, either from individual artists, or formal ateliers, internet, etc. The problem with art school is accreditation. To be accredited, a school must make you jump through all kinds of hoops to show that you are receiving a "well-rounded" education, which has f**k-all to do with what artists need to learn.
I feel your frustration and I encourage you to understand the difference between "art school" and seeking the training you need to achieve your creative goals.
Jim
How can I find more info about your teaching in Southwest of France? Thanks
@@jrsinsf You, however, are one of the VERY lucky and few.
Tell me more about your art classes in France!
@@13hehe Bonjour 13, You can read my response to Vladimir about my courses. If you want to know more than I wrote to him, ask me specific questions and I'll respond.
@jrsinsf you are living the life i made up for myself in my head 😭
I was told by my high school art teacher that it was a scam. This was back in 1999. He was right. He saved me fro a useless degree and debt.
YOU can create your own ART school...
1) paint
2) paint
3) paint
I hear many people go to art school simply to get their own galleries (it’s often necessary to have the diploma just to get people to care - yuck).
Yes, and no. Not everybody can do that. But it is the main component.
1)pain
2)pain
3)pain
I've seen some guys painting and making the same mistakes in all their work, sometimes the best option is to have a mentor or teacher who makes the kind of art you want to create.
@@themedjay4559 This is also true, but you can find those mentor outside of art school
I am 19, I attended RISD for exactly a week. Now I do freelance art full time!
Art schools have one purpose: crank out more art teachers for art schools and continue the sales' pitch so that more students enroll and pay tuition, finish their programs and become art teachers. It's a self perpetuating scheme.
Sounds almost like a pyramid scheme!
It is! "The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of an ever expanding bureaucracy"
In my experience, art school is more about having a place to get educated feedback. You learn as much as you want to
@@potatothepotato6547 some teachers don't give a feedback. They just say that you're work is shit.
Really I had a few of that kind in my Art academy
Maybe yours , mine the opposite
Imo you were the most artist person in the school. Art isn't about making things "only highly enlightened people can understand because, you know, "normal" people are too dumb to understand", it's about making pieces that you express yourself through and that people can feel emotions and relate to
@@swealf-nonofficial With my art, the snobs are too high-falutin to get anything out of it. It's the regular folks that get it!
you weren't even there, this is such a dumb comment. you don't know any of the artists at her school and her art is basic but this video is valid
That’s exactly what making things is .
@@mochimochi6357 'her art is basic' that sounds mean as hell O.O
@@mochimochi6357 let me guess, you're one of the ppl at her school? She's a real artist, she could throw trash together like that guy and call it art, but he could never even figure out the basic perspective of her's. "her art is basic" yet, many of these so call "artists" can't even do the basics, what does that say about them?
Absolutely the same experience. I am glad you quit when you realized you've had enough! I went through all the way and I swear I stopped drawing for a year after my graduation because of the amount of mental train these people's way of thinking had placed upon my relationship to my identity and the art, as art is an extension of the self, imo. And those people forced me to be them instead of me for 4 years straight.
Really glad you escaped timely and are currently pursuing your own interests + spreading your pov!!
Thanks!
I have always gotten annoyed with the expectation for artists to have a "this is x to symbolize y" reason for making something...as an artist I usually don't have a reason for making any of my art aside from "I thought it would look cool". Sometimes an apple is just an apple, and sometimes a shadow was an accidental smudge from your hand but *poof* now it's a shadow person
@@Halloweirdo2013 I had a professor like that once. Everything in one's art had to have a purpose beyond the literal. I remember getting berated for it in front of my fellow students!
@@jenniferburchill3658 I'm sorry, that really sucks and it sounds like a shitty professor.
you can just don't study then, no one is forcing you to do art school
@@V.iniciusAmaral what a very pretentious reply that is the perfect example of what the OP was describing is wrong with "traditional fine arts" artists and schooling
Amen! What's wrong with realism? The art world is just an endless series of gate keepers that mostly serves itself! Stay with your convictions; they will serve you well😊
7:52 crazy that a guy that puts trash together mindlessly and calls it “meaningful” even though the whole schtick surrounding his art is that it’s “all bullshit and anti-art” has the audacity to call anybody else’s work meaningless. Sounds like every other “edgy alternative” man trying to be relevant. He’s not special, neither is his rearranged garbage.
I did a foundation year at Central Saint Martins. So excited. Felt like I was about to start my life. So many people I studied with become severely mentally ill and there was no pastoral care. One of the fashion teachers told my friend's class "don't eat, don't sleep, don't fall in love" to focus on developing art and she developed anorexia. We also did no technical training, so I felt very disillusioned. Sorry you didn't have the experience you wanted, you're not alone 💛
This is the reason why studies show that people working in the “arts” show to be in the lowest IQ ranges, it’s just very few people are true artist, students, teachers, “artists” , etc. most of them are just lost souls trying to FAKE big time being an artist when they were never born with anything that would help them BE and grow into a real artist.
Yeah in my school overworking was promoted
I went to St Martins before it merged with Central, 1976 (!). I went there after a wonderful art foundation course in my local Technical college, where I also did my A levels. It really was so much better than St Martins with some wonderful inspiring tutors. Art was truly my passion and I was excited about my new life in London. That passion was smothered by, looking back now, totally inept ‘teaching’. To be honest there was no teaching. I was actually asked to leave or rather, was advised I wouldn’t get my degree, so…. Three on my course of 9 or 10, left on the second year. One of those asked to leave was such a talented genius, unbelievable. I myself became extremely depressed and as you said, absolutely no pastoral care. Now I would close art schools down unless they actually teach some techniques like academic academies that teach old master techniques. I don’t think you can teach someone on how to be an artist. I was at the time very much into conceptual art. One ironic moment was when an external examiner said, “ my child could do that .”..such a classic put down, usual used against modern art by the so called ‘ignorant’ member of the public.
I had a similar experience and was isolated for most of my degree course. There were some really badly thought out projects that made me want to leave, but I stayed and fought. By leaving you have become a real artist and it's something to be proud of.
This is why I said 'Hell No!' to a Fine Art degree as a comic/concept art/ illustration girlie GCSE and A Level (Fine) Art was HELL. Never knew what the teacher or exam boards wanted for a high grade and it really made me depressed and anxious to create art. 😢
I'd much prefer an atelier to hone technical skills, and seek out tution from my favourite artists via (online) classes. Pity a uni degree is the only one you can get funded.
The exact same happened to me! Going to a Fine Art university was my dream but I dropped A Level Art because it was also affecting my mental health😭 there was so little room for creativity but such a high pressure environment. I still paint three years later and am much happier working at my own pace :)
Omg so relagable... I'm in totally same situation, trying to focus on comics, designs and illustration, but never gets appreciated for hard work and always feel left out! Trying to get ahold of myself when someone hangs things from the floor on the ceiling or coloring a square on a squared fence and they get all the praise! It's so frustrating sometimes really
so the "think outside the box" art school mentality is a universal experience 😂😂
your words in this express exactly how i feel about learning art institutionally!!!! i stopped because i would have to deal with the same challenges a few years later anyways, and i might as well do that now while making art i actually like with supplies i actually like😭😭 it’s suprising to me that more artists don’t see it this way
This is uncanny how much I can relate to your experience. I feel like most of the things you talk about here was thought or said by me at some point. For me, art was an outlet for as long as I can remember, I felt good at it, and tbh, it was the only consistent thing in my life. I went to art-profiled high school, and somehow (despite my depression flaring up at that time) I managed to finish it. So I was absolutely sure that going to art school was the most logical next step. Well, turns out it wasn't. For me it also wasn't a good fit, and the reasons are very similar as in your case. I felt like I was thrown into a place where I had to feel creative on command, because that's when my classes started, and I sure as hell couldn't do it. Then there was the issue of lots and lots of courses that weren't even remotely related to the field of study I chose, but I had to pass those too, to be able to continue doing what I really came there for. I just couldn't muster the energy to keep up with everything, and it made me think like I wasn't creative enough, skilled enough, persistent enough. So, I never finished it. I even tried at two different colleges, hoping that maybe I will do better at the second one. I didn't. So, my guess is, organized education just isn't my cup of tea 🙃 But after a few years and some thinking, I'm finally sure that there's nothing wrong with that. Cheers, I loved your video, and your art is absolutely amazing ❤
I love all art. Im an artist, art in general interests me, and I like bushing the boundaries on what art is. I really enjoy learning about art history and color theory, and the history behind classical/older art. I find it weird that the teachers were just rushing through that, when it's important to understand how far the arts as a whole have come and how styles have popularized and changed. Thanks for your video, I can totally relate to not feeling inspired at the right times to get classwork done as you described.
Hello, a former art school studet here. A few months ago I recently transferred out of art college. I realized how unnecessary some of the classes were. I started thinking "when am I ever going to draw, am i good enough. I have now transferred to a normal university. The weird part of art school was having to think non-representationaly. I wanted to dive straight into my career. Classes were long and some days I would have to build a structure and than sit their bored for the last 2 hours. I hated the classes too. I realized how pointless, 2d and 4d was. I found myself wanting to learn academically, I felt in a way "dumb". Dumb meaning I am taking these so called easy classes while my friends are expanding their knowledge at normal college. This is my experience at art college. Everyone has a different opinion and this is just my opinion.
When you transferred into a regular college, did you still major in art? And if so, did you like it better than the art school?
I also wonder if art programs at regular colleges focus more on practical, technical skills than self-expression?
Art school is weird because i do think it’s good that we do fundamentals but i also struggled for so many of the assignments to really see the “why.” I realized i really missed on learning in other subjects, and felt draining to be doing monotony with no passion 24/7. I think its important for art majors to have time to do passion projects between learning, because if you don’t you just feel awful. I ended up going to a normal college as well and am much happier double majoring, and getting to learn and expand knowledge well still working on getting ready for my career. I feel like art college is so insular.
so true!!! im in the same boat rn feeling like im getting out of college dumber than i entered. my brains wants to be stimulated so bad in class and instead i sit there bored looking out the window. i wish i had quit in the 1st semester.
sorry for sounding a bit aggressive on this video😂 i still have trouble putting these last few years into words. But if you have any experience with art school, please share your experience in the comments so people can get a less biased understanding and expectations ❤ thankyou for watching❤
in art school at the moment and oh im struggling so hard. attending class feels useless sometimes and it breaks my heart because i wanted to enjoy this so much but i really just disagree with the course structure and culture. i also notice a lot of people in my course struggling and being discouraged (+breedings this weird comparison and disparity in quality of work) just because of the course's lack of emphasis on foundational skills and i dont think art has to be based on technical skill level at all (they emphasise that so much lol) but i think it is still so important because it is a building block to work from, it builds confidence to express more conceptual ideas if that makes sense. and that aside yeah i personally just struggle socially, i guess theres a certain crowd that to me feel really pretentious and judgey to people outside their bubble i find it hard to connect idk
I understand you! I, a few months ago too, dropped out of art school despite being one of the best in my class. My biggest problem came with what my future would be and how I could support myself financially, I didn't like to depend on fashions or art trends at the time, I wanted to make art in the way I liked for my own pleasure. I really identified with everything you were saying, and I'm glad to know that I wasn't the only one who felt this way. I really felt that the art school wanted to replace my vision and my style with something more abstract and different to what I liked, in the end my final works turned out to be products that I wasn't proud of and didn't even represent me, but that everyone seemed to like.
Now I am doing other studies completely different, and I am very grateful for my experience in that school, because without it, I would not have realized what I really wanted for my life.
I went to art college in California for 2 years in 1993. You make great points. I was also maddened by their love of abstract. Being an artist is great but going to school for it is ridiculous on all levels. Real art learning happens in work environments and personal projects. Art college had zero real effect on my skill or income. If a degree is all you want, get it in different lucrative field, then graduate and get literally any job doing what you makes you happy. I sound like a dad but that is my best advice.
Your former school colleagues were jealous of your talent. Good for you finding a new route, that takes a great deal courage. Doesn't seem like art schools actually help people. Ive known at least two people that went through 4 years of art school and literally quit doing any art whatsoever.
It was absolutely brave for you to make that decision! I started making art portfolio (for art college) last year and I quit it as soon as I finished my first project. Every single school requires you to have some stupid “reason” or “logic chain” of your art work, but sometimes I just created it because I think I’ll look nice! The whole “why” thing is too stressful that I immediately decided that it’s not for me as soon as l realized it. Now I’m launching my own art brand and I’m doing very well! Can’t imagine what kind of a misery I’m in if I finished my portfolio and went to the art school.
i honestly don’t think that reason thing is all that bad. it kind of made me describe my work in a better way but i agree there doesn’t always need to be a deeper meaning. it looking good is a good enough reason! but i do think it’s important to be able to describe what you made with more technical terms
@ Yes you’re right! I like to create my art for a deeper meaning too, so that It kind of has an energy flow or something. But I just think it’s stressful to be forced to assign meaning to every single project. Meaningless art has a unique calm and confortable vibe. You know sometimes it’s one thing when you genuinely want to do something, but it’s a whole other thing when you are forced to do it even when you don’t feel like doing it.
I am so sorry about your experience at art school. Ive always wanted to go but never had the means. But honey, your art is amazing!!!❤❤ You don't NEED art school!!! Looks like you are doing great all on your own!! 😘
I 100% feel you on this. I also did one year of art school and the culture was elitist as fuck. Also ut was 75% theory and 25% practice. One professor even said that we had to use "difficult" word to appear more intelligent. We were pushed to make abstract art and if you did something that was'nt for an assignment, you had lower chances to get a good grade. Illustration was regarded as lesser.
so real. so much of this was exactly what i went thru... i had a voice in my head that said that continuing with art school would likely cause me to stop enjoying the process of making art forever 🥲 after dropping out, it took many years for me to be able to make art regularly again let alone identify publicly as an artist. its been almost a decade of working through the traumatic and negative associations i had with making art and being an "artist". i truly believe that everyone should have access to art and have the opportunity to be inspired to create things that are meaningful regardless of external expectations. hopefully your video reaches all those who also feel ostracized by the traditional institutional art industry/scene and become encouraged to stay true, manifest their creative visions and build a supportive community ❤
This reminds me of Albert Camus’ Create dangerously in the sense that those people doing the opposite of what society wants is just as soulless as doing the same as what society wants and an artist should do what they resonate with.
i recommend trying to find an institution that aligns with your philosophies. i know in places like greece and italy there is much more of an appreciation for and a focus on classical and neoclassical art because these are more culturally relevant to the place, whereas in nordic countries i think there is a lot of emphasis on departing from historical ways and trying to be avant-garde (speaking with limited knowledge of this area). definitely do consider finding another place to study and doing a bit more research about the curriculum (what you will be asked to do day to day especially)... but also you don't need to go to school at all! maybe try find an artist residency you can do in a cool place that inspires you and just make the art you want to make every day and see where you end up :)
One of the best things an art school will do is teach the student how to "see." Often students that go to an art school can't observe the objects accurately. This can also be self-taught, but a good school can speed up the process ten-fold. Once I heard this from one of the professors, I started to focus on that concept specifically.
Yep. I learned this from my art teacher in high school (I attended his extracurricular art classes). But then, all he'd give us to paint was dead nature, and eventually, I just started painting random shit from my head, since I got so bored.
The best art is the best in spite of itself, the artist has managed to make a work rise above its genre and style, whatever that genre and style is. As someone who spent six years in art college, I would always advise people not to listen too much to the lecturers but spend the precious time available to find yourself and explore what you are interested in. The exploring of mediums is fine for someone who isn't sure about what direction they want to take.
I think a lot of claims you make here are true not only of art school but of any institutionalized education system. As someone that decided not to pursue an art degree also because of personal and mental health reasons, your video has really resonated with me, I'm glad you were able to find a different way that worked for your path as an artist! And really loved the canvases in the background, got yourself a new subscriber and a fan of your art!
A college dropout here 🫶🏻 I can relate to what you went through in many ways. I started college when I was 21, I studied fashion design. In retrospect, I feel like I was too young mentally to truly understand what I wanted and like the pressure from home and society to make a decision like that isn’t fit to everyone at this age. Second, all the technical stuff I couldn’t learn in class since there were one professor teaching 40 students, and I’m with ADD, dyslexic and I just can’t understand in these situations. So 80% of my studies were done from UA-cam ( even 10 years ago there was plenty of videos that taught sewing 😂). I feel like these days you can learn almost everything online. I taught myself so many things from art to knitting to languages. We don’t need to go into adulthood with huge debts anymore.
Omg!!!! I know what you’re talking about, I support you standing your ground! I was drawing my whole child and teenage years and at 23 I quit art because of those same type of a-holes and just today I asked myself “why?”, and then I stumbled upon your video! It’s really resonated with me. It’s ok to not fit the mold! You do you! ❤ sending love
Please start making art again!
I'm really not sure why there are so many comments saying, "You didn't do enough research." LIKE FIRST OF ALL, researching/reading/looking into a program is *completely different* than actually being in the program itself! It's literally the equivalent of reading a job description and working the job. It's always going to be different in some aspect when you're actually there. I read amazing things about my art program in school and even had friends going there at the time recommending it to me, but actually being there was not at all what I thought it would be. Trying new things like this is what makes us realize as artists what our true path is. With or without school.
This video is spot-onnnn! However, I will say that I was lucky and had awesome classmates and some good teachers (others weren't so great). Unfortunately, I also developed some gnarly mental health issues and barely made it through my BFA. I completed my degree back in 2010, and I remember feeling completely burnt out and ironically, I had lost all confidence in my ability to become an artist, despite completing a degree. I felt like my artwork got more inconsistent and worse because I had to complete projects and courses I had zero interest in. I started to overthink everything I worked on, and couldn't enjoy what I was doing because of subjective "grading". I noticed you wrote that you may have undiagnosed ADHD. I didn't know I had ADHD/celiac disease until a few years ago and realized that I was struggling with rejection sensitivity dysphoria, demand avoidance, and an inflamed nervous system, which aren't good traits to have while enrolled in art school...I think a lot of amazingly creative and talented people are neurodivergent, but art schools tend to create the complete opposite environment that would allow neurodivergent people to flourish and learn. I'm so glad you are still making art (you're so talented! :)) I also do not think anyone needs a formal education in art to become a successful artist. I love your videos and feel inspired to pick up my paintbrush.
I fully appreciate everything you said!
I worked my art until 25yo when it became obvious that my box of colors wouldn’t provide for a family. In 1980 I got an engineering degree BSME. Best decision I ever made. Now, in retirement and fanatical independent, surrounded my family, I work my art on my own terms not caring a wit if I ever sell a thing. Life is good.
9:55 "The only time in my life that I have never painted anything for months on end was in art school" is soooo real. Looking back I regret I didn't use my time at art school to just do whatever I like and not worry about grades, but when youre forced to do bullshit projects unrelated to the course it makes you so uninspired and depressed. I hated it.
If you search for the teachers you admire and want to learn from, which takes searching out, then you will benefit from their knowledge. I don't think throwing out all learning to be 'your own voice' is the best way to go. Unless you search out how paint works, assuming you are learning painting. Self teaching takes a lot of time. There are many books that one can buy. For me, sculpture is easy until you get into bronzes, then you will have to learn from somebody. Painting is relatively easy, if you're talented, on the concept of application, but learning to change something from three dimensional to two dimensional is the tricky part- and make it believable.
It's so hypocritical to talk about the ambiguity of art and how there isn't a set way you have to do it, but then turn around and set a 'right path' and the 'right reason' to make art for students it's such bullshit.
In regard to point 1, I agree that it feels like a waste of time doing stuff you aren’t interested in, however at least for me the whole reason I went to art school was to take myself out of my comfort zone. Some people don’t want that and that’s ok! It’s really important to do a bunch of research as to what you’re getting into
I am sad to hear these things. Was encouraged to go to art school by my elementary teacher but still I wasn't really that gifted or determined. In my broader family I have one recognized artist, Cvetko Lainovic, he was able to draw amazing portraits with just a pencil in about 5 mins. I just think you should never give up on what you feel your true calling is plus your paintings are amazing! Maybe people who really want to paint all the time should just do it without going to all those schools. I wish all people would recognize true art and pause to find meaning in it. Regardless of that, the most important thing is you love it. Following you rn!
lol me watching this when I’m going to art school in the fall😢but I’m glad you found your way in the end and stuck to your individual art style
dont worry! i think its entirely individual and i think for many artists it develops them immensly! Most of my friends there said it was the best thing they’ve done, and the only way you’ll know is by going. Even though i didn’t like it got to know a lot about myself as an artist so if you go with an open mind, while not forgetting to listen to yourself, i’m sure you’ll learn a lot!
I think you are being very generous in equating the quality of your work with the 'bullshit' variety of work. Yours is far superior and more honest. I went to Chelsea School of Art in London and had the same experience. I am nearly 70 years old now and have the confidence to say unequivacally that it is pretentious, and conceptional art is for the most part absolutely meaningless.
I enjoyed listening to your experience and opinion it's given me something to think about when it comes to art school and their philosophy. On an editing note, I encourage you to lengthen the time the photos are on screen. I would have liked to look at them longer as you spoke to absorb them a little. ^-^
Yes... you are right: do what moves you... tap into what's intimately alive in your inner garden!
Hi! Mexican artist here
I study in ENPEG (Escuela Nacional de pintura, escultura y grabado) “La Esmeralda” which is supposed to be the most prestigious fine arts school in latin america, and I totally feel what you are saying, I entered there because I love to draw and paint, specially superheroes, and everyone is like: andy warhol this, marina abramovich that, and everytime someone tries to do academic painting, or even try to talk about michellangelo or caravaggio in art history class, all of the classmates start to eyeroll, the proffesors skip that because they don’t like it and I don’t know if I made a wrong decission because i feel rejected even though everyone keeps telling me how good I draw, but at this point i feel is pointless!
oh..by the way.. Daniel Clowes (the writer/artist of Ghost World) has drawn some funny comic strips about the art school experience. They were put in his collected book "Eightball". I don't know if it's hard to find that book now though, it's from the 90s. in fact,,,I think his "art school confidential" strip was made into a film. He even had a fantasy art classmate who only painted dragons.
Great painting of the dinner table. You are an artist , no doubt about that 🧡💛💚
älskar dig agnes!!!!
Jag älskar dig ❤❤❤!!!
Painter to painter, heart to heart, i couldn't agree with you more! The industry really sucks !!
I was lucky to attend an art conseratory for high school and squeezed all the sap i could out of my training there. But i couldn't justify indebting myself forever (in the States) to go to art school for university and be forced back into square one, drawing cubes and spheres in graphite. And deal with everyone in "the scene", which is really just a cool kid competition. The whole institution is so fanatical, ironically. So annoying.
I spent years working in entertainment instead thinking it would satisfy me creatively, but it didn't, and I'm finally returning to myself now. Painting again. I'm happy to hear you stay true to yourself and honor your creative voice. This is what we need!
My mother in law is also Agness, and I went to art Schoole on Austin Texas back in the good old days 2002. There were no internet or phones, it was a nice time.
When I went to gymnasiet I got to visit a folkhögskola/högskoleförberedande utbildningar and honestly it was exactly like what you described even back in 2018-2019. Doing a lot of different things just for the sake of trying things and nowhere did anything about teaching the art fundementals or specific path in the education. These kinds of schools are for those that aren't really sure what they want to do artistically and that has it's place. But for people like us that know what we like to do and have a clear goal with our art I honestly don't know if many art schools in Sweden can provide what you need. I've had some aquintances even go to denmark or other countries for things like concept art and more directed educations. My solution was mostly doing self-learning and looking for pockets of knowledge online (though I'd like to find something irl just haven't yet.).
The school of art I attend does not follow any of the steps you mentioned. My idea of art school was exactly what you described, yet I was lucky to find out that we are self-directed, given resources, and 24/7 access to the studios. We may need to attend tutorials and sessions, but not all of them are compulsory, and coursework mainly involves documenting our work/research and present it in exhibitions.
Currently finishing up my last year of art school and I feel THE SAME. I wish i quit after one term and pursued technique-focused figurative studies in ateliers instead. You are so wise and brave and so young too! Congratulations on making the right decisions for you.
Thank you for this video and your kvetching. Yours is no rant but a valid witnessing account of the state of art education in the West. There is the need for focus and concentration. Not all art students seek the same things or have the same objectives neither should they or the faculty be close-minded and condemn or put down styles and approaches that hark back to earlier motifs.
Robert Henri in his book on art instruction stressed that the instructor is simply a tool for the student. He or she is at the student's beck and call. However according to his approach, the burden rests with the student to ask for help and to enlist faculty support.
My experience at the Arts Students League in New York City seemed to reflect at least something akin to what Robert Henri said and wrote about art instruction. But for some, it had been a veritable supermarket for whatever the student wanted or needed. Tuition was not locked into the semester system. You paid as you go, and it possibly had the lowest tuition of all art schools in the New York metropolitan area. Alas, this was decades ago. I do not know if they had changed their approach since then. One of the wonderful instructors from that era when I briefly attended was David A. Laffel. He works in the tradition of portraiture and still life of the likes of Rembrandt and the other Dutch masters. Unfortunately, I could never register for his courses not only because they were in huge demand but because he only taught mornings, and I was working a day job. You see, back in the day we had only incandescent and fluorescent lighting. Daylight was essential to paint in color. Perhaps this has changed with the advent of LED full spectrum lighting.
Your experience in art school reminds me of what I had heard about New York's School of Visual Arts whose focus had been on modernity. The students then clamored for live models and for learning how to draw and paint them traditionally. Sometimes, the pendulum pivots back or at least the students being schooled in modern trends might at times seek a counterbalance. I hope you can find a happy medium perhaps in another art institute or atelier. To me, your work that I can see in the background of your video looks well executed. And perhaps just painting suffices. The creative act provides its own education. One's skills might be strengthened simply by doing. Each work constitutes a journey of discovery.
I identified myself so much with this video, I appreciate well done arts, something that gives to realize that the person studied years to do this and not something that seems done in 1 second
Felt the same way about art school. I ended up leaving after the second year when I found out about the online schools. I did Watts Atelier online and it saved my life. Now I’ve just been learning from books and going to a lot of life drawing sessions. I teach my own classes now and still do my own exhibitions, still making art everyday and have a good art community where I live.
It will be interesting to see what those pretentious students have to say a few years later. Almost all of the students I went to art school with are no longer even doing art, I suspect it will be the same at most of these art schools.
i dont do art , i suck but i did enjoy your video though. it is always refreshing to see someone being real. and i found your story very interesting ❤
This is very much what I felt when I studied Literature in Uni to become a writer. It made me overthink everything I wrote and many of my colleagues and the entire programme environment was very snobbish. Ten years later I've managed to start writing again, with confidence.
Degrees give you a network. Todays degree causes do not give you the discipline needed to go out along into the shark invested art word. I love your work please please go on with your art. Just don’t stop. Thanks for sharing.:-) lots of people do need the support and encouragement.
I'm about into my 4th year into my fine arts degree (drawing major), and this video is so real lol... I relate to your story a lot as there was a time where I really struggled with making art and had also tried to force myself into making more "conceptual" work. There were many times where I was made to feel like I wasn't "smart" enough or on the same level as my peers, very discouraging.
idk if it's just me, but I also feel so alienated at school lol... very cliquey and despite preaching inclusivity, its rlly not that inviting. Like most sects in academia there will always be your pretentious crowd, it just sucks when its the crowd you want to be in... and I feel like to be successful in art, you have to have a lot of connections...but a lot of the relationships you make will be transactional.
I just begun my master’s in art history and so far throughout my education I have begun to slowly realize the same stuff you are talking about. The artist I originally wanted to write my thesis about was completely rejected because he wasn’t enough «known». They just almost mockingly asked me: «is this a recognized arist»?, like what is a «recognized» artist anyways? An artist is an artist and he has exhibitions is in Poland like??
The art world, epsecially the academic and institutional art world is coated with this thick layer of snobbery that’s not even relevant to art’s quality. It’s just snobbish people that are trying to protect their made-up upper «knowledge» and «taste» in art in order to fool everyday people outside the field.
It’s so stupid. And ruining for the beautiful world that is art and it’s history and for aspiring future artists. I’ts all about power and fear of loosing status.
I did the whole degree thing in the 1960s, was miserable most if the time but family circumctances made it necessary to finish the full 4 years. I learned most of what I needed in the foundation year and was just marking time for the last 3 years.
There is something mesmerizing about Scandinavian rage. It's like seeing your 80 year aunt swear after spilling her tea. So much repressed anger unleashed.
Hahahahahah this made me laugh
@@AgnesHjalArt I've never been to art school, but I am a teacher, and watching this video made wonder what is going on with art teachers. I always tell students who don't like my methods, its fine find a way it works for you. I always reinforce to them that education is often just theoretical, and based on what the most influential people in the field believe, but if it doesn't work in real life, then they should figure out what does for them.
@ES-qm5hr Kind of like society in general... you're given a hard time if what works for you doesn't work for others. I have had many people interfere in whatever I was doing at that moment(art-related or not). It was because the way I was doing things wasn't what they would have done(and it backfires about 65% of the time). They need to back off and let things run themselves!
As someone who was planning to join art school thanks. It’s nice to see this perspective since I too don’t work particularly well with schedules
Art is the freedom of your expression.Be you and love what you create and what you create will be yours and be amazing.Paint your way and this will get you noticed. I m a 57 year old artist who has been creating from childhood. I made money painting for people portrait commissions.Now that I’m retired I just finally paint what I want and then I get my passion for painting and I love painting for my self and for my soul.Keep painting and I love your work so unique.
Omg that so some thing new, I was thinking going to an art school, and with my capabilities but if they have different methods than mine and it comes with lots of unnecessary intention, then I don't want to waste my time for it as well. This video is really an eye opener, tysm
I dropped out for the same reasons after taking two academic vacations. I was often told that my art style is bad without any explanations, and that I should stop drawing fantasy stuff and do more conceptual stuff instead of illustration. It didn't come naturally to me and I finally had a mental break as well as some physical health issues bc of working until super late and only getting like a few hours of sleep for months. I quit and now studying smh else just so I could have a day job until I can get into making art as a business. It took me two years to even want to create something again. I used to cry every time i tried to draw something, because it just didn't feel good enough. Just this month I decied to try pixel art and I finally feel interest in art again.
i did alot of art classes in my teens and i remember it helping me learn a lot and really fast, ive not been learning jack doo doo since i left because ive had a terrible structure (cos of mental illness) and im schedule hopping XD But right now exactly, i have been learning how effective a good schedule would be for me and trying some out, just trial and error really. But I think if you are wanting to learn about art, there is pleanty of resources online and is fully possible to make your own classes/course for the amount of time you want to learn for. if you can there are courses online for small fees! and for the rest of us who have no money then you might be able to get help from art communities/discord servers, to help you make a curriculum for yourself with the stuff your interested in!
I 100% agree with this your point about abstract art. It’s nice but some of us like to tell a story with our art and we want that story to be understood by everyone. You shouldn’t need an essays to explain your art because it’s just a bunch of squiggle lines or a meaningless red paint stroke across a canvas. Sounds like some of your old classmates are jealous.
Creative fields have become even more classist and less diverse than 30 years ago because of the arrogance and lack of funding (in the UK anyway). I feel like some creatives almost want to keep it that way and don’t want diversity in the field.
11:36 is actually interesting because what you say about not liking the elitist, snoobish "cultured people vs general public" is exactly what I felt about this online art course I was taking at the time. They were strictly a classical type course that supposedly teaches the secrets of the old masters, but the problem was that there were a lot of ideals they had that turned me further off from classical and academic art as a whole. They didn't believe in using pencil sharpeners referring to them as "a kid's toy" they shunned ever using blend stumps, they completely would shit on other artists who would use specific shading techniques like the 5-pencil method. And they were heavily against using photo references saying that it could stifle your creative potential as an artist and that "as a professional fine artist" you were only to draw from life.
To be fair, I do encourage drawing from life to better understand how things work in 3d that can better help you translate it on a 2d surface, but I also understand that not everyone (myself included) has the luxury of having a life drawing class they can go to on a daily basis to practice from real life models, not everyone can afford those expensive ass plaster cast reproductions of The David, and if you're working a typical 9 to 5 job (like most people do) Then sure as hell not everyone has the time, or space to make models of a face or cast to practice on from scratch, but they would never account for that and I would read in the comment sections to their UA-cam videos of people bringing up some of these same points and they would respond quite snobbishly with stuff like "Just use a mirror to draw your own face" and stuff of that nature.
They had a lot of these videos on their channel where they would try to sell you on their course, and they talk about a lot of the ideas they think about what it takes to become a real artist. Much of it is just them boasting about how great their Russian art schools are while deliberately using the worst examples of schooling from other countries to imply that they are the best there is compared to everyone else in art education. They also would say stuff like "There is no such thing as a self-taught artist" and believed that true art skills only came from "having a good teacher" which was basically just another ploy for them to sell their program to you.
In addition to what I've mentioned, they also had this insane judgmental system where they rated a good artist to bad on a scale from 0 to 3, and it was insane indeed. They would say that if you lacked understanding of any of the elements of composition which they taught (there were 15 of them) then you were at level 0 regardless. It all just came across as so pompous and crazy to me, and the snobbish tone in which they talked didn't help with that either. It completely reinforced the bias I had against classical art and art education that it was all just a snobby, pompous, and elitist practice.
I actually don't like a lot of renaissance art anymore because now I can't not associate it with all the things I've mentioned, but I still try daily not to let experiences like this get in the way of me being open minded to more traditional forms of art since I have started to find interest in a bit more traditional academic artworks like John William Waterhouse and William Morris Hunt, but now I'm mostly into more fantasy esque/animeish type art that's completely stylized, but still manages to pull of a bit of that classical/painterly type look like with Dinoartforame and Xilmo.
Thankyou for saying this!! I agree 100% that the elitist attitude is not exclusive to any type of art. And i honestly suspected that what i felt was even worse at the classical institutions. This is why i’ve decided to just teach myself and stay away hahaha, or at least find my own less pretentious community. Thankyou for taking the time to comment, it’s so interesting to read how similair people’s experiences are even in completely different parts of the art scene
@@AgnesHjalArt Yeah. I've found that just taking what I find helpful for my practice and ignoring the rest of the pretentious bullshit really helped me improve a lot, it's even better when you can just do it from the comfort of your own home and so don't have to see a teacher actively getting in your way or telling you how to learn.
i just started uni and due to complaints of previous students about doing classes that aren't going to help them, they've said that i dont need to go to each workshop or class, if theres a workshop that doesnt interest me or help me progress i dont necessarily need to attend and they said its perfectly fine if i dont want to learn some of the things that theyre teaching (like sculpting, plastering, and printmaking). they give me lots of freedom to do the things i want to do, and im really happy with the course so far. theres life drawing workshops coming this week for me and im gonna try and make sure to tell the tutors to keep doing them since it will help me progess, and im sure theres many other students in my class that want more too.
they even have a whole forum where people can anonymously put out feedback to help improve the course which is cool
man i wish my school was like that. mine is so awful. my “drawing” class has taught us nothing and its taught by a poet who doesn’t draw. nothing wrong with being a poet but id at least want the person trying to teach drawing to have drawn before. we kind of just get instructed to draw and that’s it. we don’t learn any new skills and we literally did for one class out of the entire semester. i really hate it because i just can’t learn like this. i’m contemplating dropping out
Honestly I think the old masters told their students to draw first cause paint was expensive back then XD
I really identify with you about the elitist world of art. I am also a designer and it’s the same in that world. Just create your own world on your terms. I would love to see more of your work.
As someone who went to a folk high school myself to try out animation and as someone who has a vocational school degree in art, its important to know when applying to FHS that its not a school in the same sense as vocational school or university. Its a prep school for art school for people who want to try out new stuff and learn the basics for proper art school, so they arent out of their depth when they get there. It also isnt as personalised as real schools as everyone has the same courses except maybe one optional. Its a great place to go try out new things, but it really shouldnt be considered the same as real art school where you get your own study plan and can choose your courses and have enough time to do them. Courses in vocational schools were over two months versus in FHS where they are maybe two weeks or so. Also you will get no degree from there and they often cost money so you really have to think wether its worth it if you know what you wanna already do.
I am fortunate enough to go to a university where the tutors had similar experiences to this when they attended art school. While this has created a system that encourages us to challenge the university, it is still a pathway that is roadblocked by finances and right now it is incredibly expensive to live as a student in my country. I can relate to your experience, as although there are concept art degrees as well as fine arts and design etc., I have more of an interest in the artistic trades like jewellery, tattoo, smithing etc. I think we have forgotten about and are missing the importance of apprenticeships. I would be much happier there than in university.
You make so many good points. I remember a TV show where the character was walking through an art gallery, and he was incredulous at the nonsensical artwork. He said, "Wow, this looks like a pile of junk! The other guy asked, "What is it called?" The first guy read the title: 'A Pile of Junk.'
I'm currently experimenting with different mediums and subjects. UA-cam has a lot to offer... for free.
I did a year of art college in the UK 22 years ago. It was an amazing atmosphere - it was the last few years of the UK non-corporate, old fashioned, grimy uni atmosphere really - grimy, smoky cafes, bars and flats full of cool, intellectual people - so I'll never forget the atmosphere, but the course was a mistake. I didn't realise they expected you to have ideas for an abstract, personal set of work or personal style already. I thought it was going to be just the learning the history of art part while perfecting my style. And I wasn't really "into" art, I didn't go to art galleries on my own and stuff then - I was expecting to pick that up on the course- and the other people on the course were much more ahead of me in terms of knowing the current art scene and knowing galleries, local artists etc. I wasn't a total anti-intellectual, I was willing to pick up the philosophy side of it. I don't think they'd have been fights like the one described in this video either, we all liked each other and none of us wanted to criticize what the others were doing. Oh and... there was this really unstable guy who printed animal/bestial p*rn off the internet (which we were all new to then, this being 2002), and reproduced it painted in big. I think he wanted to top Jeff Koons. I don't remember if he got in trouble, his work was thrown out but i don't think he suffered any repercussions, even for inflicting that on non-consenting classmates (and that stuff is illegal here). It was surely a different time.
The best advice is just keep working. Make. Make. Make. In doing anything a lot, you will improve, or, you'll discover that you should focus on a different style, a different technique, a different medium. Self discovery, in other words. Ultimately, like it was said in the video, you will have to work out your own personal path. Or, you'll become a copy machine of others works. Art as a career is hard!
It is really tough having to show up every day for things creatively. I am in my 40s now, though I didn't end up becoming an artist because it was too all consuming for me. I am an Architect.
I have children now and so life gets very crowded with things that I cannot say no to. I worked really hard to have a method to be "on" for creative output, and then to be able to switch off for other parts of life. I hope you do really great, and for a very long time, but just thought I'd share my thoughts, and remind you of the idea of endurance.
I would've made a better experience at art school if I had an artistic voice to begin. I loved learning techniques, I have fond memories of art school, but I simply wasn't mature enough in terms of personal voice.
I was also disillusioned by how insulated the whole circle is, with their galleries for more people like them. I realized that I wanted to go in a different direction.
Well said- all of it! I hate “artist speak and attitude” I want to learn, I create out of love for the subject and beauty, to add more positive and beautiful to this already beautiful world
i wanted to go to some sort of art school, even animation school but because i live in denmark where there isn't the biggest options for that and i wasn't willing to move to another country + i didn't have the money for it. i just didn't went and i just focused on learning it by myself. now 10 years later i feel like i'm on level with someone who has graduated art school and i can even animate at a intermediate level. art school is not for everyone, i don't regret not going.
You're speaking from my soul... Thanks for this video💚💚💚
I subscribed! I have horrible experience with art school I didn't drop out but it was hell on earth 😢😢
Thank you for this video
Not all schools are like that. It highly depends on school and location. Though toxicity (coming from some teachers) and strict following of school traditions is smth I also experienced.
Art wasn't smth abstract, it contained tons of technical methods. And another extreme: anything not about actual drawing/painting was viewed as useless even by teachers so was almost nonexistent in the whole process. We could come and go at any time to work on final projects, and it was never a problem to join another group or find a special place for additional studying. Ah, I miss it so much :D
This was such a good video, thank you so much for making this! It’s really good to hear someone talk about our school for European perspective, as most of the videos are from American perspective. As someone who lives in the UK, I think our arts education system is similar, as we do a foundation course before university, that is also very experimental. As someone who also has a strong idea what I want to do, that’s more towards painting and illustration, I also feel the same way about doing a very experimental and unfocused course. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and experiences, it’s been really helpful hearing this!
broo im currently going trough this, i have so many conflicting feelings about my experiences but ultimately im just glad i realized that this simply isnt for ME. I cant quite deal with the fact that ive wasted the last two years of my life so ill try powering trough one more year to finish it, but damn sometimes the thought of having a minimum wage job feels more freeing and exciting than the thought of having to go back to a free art uni with extremely nice people and professors, which makes me feel crazy but im glad im not the only one feeling this way.
Like in a way it feels like one huge after-school activity but its happening all day, every day, with no prior actual "school" time to take a break from, so its just hours after hours of doing nothing that you actually wanna do, but its not "hard" per say, so i end up just feeling kinda dumb in this weird space in between?? Cant bring myself to actually care about the projects, not being able to concentrate while working at the school, and just constantly being bored and unmotivated, drains me in a way ive never experienced before in my life. Only right now, that ive basically been forced to take a short break to finish all the classes i skipped out on (i genuinely couldnt keep up with so many projects all at once), did i finally get a chance to breathe and rediscovering the reason WHY i do art in the first place is what made my life purpuseful again, and art school was the one thing preventing me from actually taking a breather and THINKING about what i ACTUALLY wanna do this whole time, in a way i feel fucking robbed of my time but at least i know this aint it.
You know what I quit Architecture because lot of people look down to others architect. They feel all of thems are competitors. And I am starting right now my art journey and I was so shock that the experience of you and me are just the same. The difference is that our studies. Maybe I just want to be alone. 😵
Art is individual, if you have the passion and talent you will make it as an artist, I never considered art school. I don’t want to be cloning everyone else. Art comes from within and practice and more practice you will learn all you need. No one can teach you what you want from art.
By the way I actually like your mouldy paintings too! There is still something poetic in those :), genuinely
I am feeling the effects of "realism being the most boring form of art" from the teachers and other art students at my school. :(
I can relate to much of what you say. I enjoyed art school to a degree, but I also found it very frustrating and disheartening experience. If I'd known back then what I know now, I would have taken a very different route as, ultimately, every artist has to teach themselves anyway, through repeated practice, and trial and error.
This video makes me feel way more secure in my decision to not go to art school. It also reminded me of when i was in excel tecc for studio art and how much i hated it during my second/final year, along with how i now think that my teacher for that class wasn't just being a dickhead (even tho he was), that he was more or less a part of a bigger problem, that being the institutions and how they operate. They seem to see art through a snobbish and monetary lense rather than see art for what it actually is, an expression of the soul of one's being and not just something to put on your wall as you pretend to be "deep" with a stick up your ass.
Luv ur style + this video 🥰will be tuned in 4sure ✌🕉