So the answer to the title of the video is "If you treat it well, it will last long, if you don't treat it well it will not last that long". Thanks! 18 minutes well spent. This channel is clearly run by journalists, because they have the ability to talk for hours without saying nothing.
this fella also didn't seem to have a good word to say about alloy on bikes, not even alloy bikes as a whole, didn't even like alloy parts like BB's or bottle cage bosses. He just wanted to shill his carbon superiority...
@@jawide626 right, didn't even answer the question about alloy rear triangles really. My YT Izzo has an Alloy rear end and it's great. Why would corrosion matter in that case.
@@jawide626 100 % Agree. Also, if Carbon is so good why isn't there any hard core hard tails made in Carbon? Definitely an Anti Alloy expert. Carbon while lovely, is for people with deep pockets and\so sponsored riders\commentators eviewers. That said, I still enjoy GMBN and GMBN tech.
Just started watching this video. Do not use pipe cutters to cut carbon bars. You risk crushing the fibres. Always use an appropriate saw cutting tool.
It's almost 100 percent chance that it will damage the handlebars.. It kinda makes me think about his other opinions , being a carbon expert you should know this
Alloy, Steel and Ti frames can also be repaired if need, i had a cracked Zaskar frame wielded up once and dents can be filled. It just doesnt happen so often so there isnt such an industry for it. But to be fair to the local firm, its good to know this carbon repair service is available as i expect they will become very busy in the future, my neighbour recommends theses guys as they repaired a chain stay on his carbon road bike and its been great he tells me.
I think 8:17 is supposed to be about the fact the bike company has gone with a alloy swing arm on a carbon main frame, and what your thoughts are on this sacrifice - rather than the corrosion factor.
yeah But It din"t Cost you over 5 Grand for the Bare Frame , Your out of Touch Bro Got too Flog Expensive Crap Too The Masses while we Can , too get our Cut of the Profits
I’ve never seen an alloy or steel frame fail, but I have seen an Evil Following MB snap off of a two foot drop (mostly due to rider error and lack of upkeep). My alloy GT Force from 2020/2021 has taken the biggest hits of my riding career and aside from some scuffs to the paint it’s totally fine. Not to mention that I payed $3500 for a bike that would have been closer to $5000 if it was a carbon framed variant.
I've snapped and bent steel and aluminum frames, definitely take a good carbon for fatigue resistance alone, although my carbon crashes haven't damaged the frames.
@@marklouieadame in my experience the best for long term is anything without aluminum in it. A carbon frame with a pressfit BB would be ideal. Aluminum eventually cracks, and any aluminum insert (BB, headset cups, water bottle bosses) will eventually fail. Water bottle bosses are pretty easy to repair so thats not too bad, as are carbon lugs generally, such as dropouts. They can be rebonded in my experience without too much hassle.
@@marklouieadame depends how hard you ride. If you’re riding bike park I choose aluminum. You see a lot more carbon frames cracking then aluminum frames.
@@galenkehler i have a 26 incher and trying to find a 29er frame that i could build as i dont like buying a bike as a whole i like it building it myself and anything that would fit my budget and also something on parts that i could spend more like better shifter and crankset budget but not too shabby like a balance performance. Trying to build an XC/Enduro in one i find alluminum good too but there is less 29er allow available in the market they are mostly carbon so i may end up buying carbon frame. I still appreciate my alloy 26inc very agile light and so fun to ride although of course a little slow but quick on trails. I want a new build following a new trend which is 29er
All 8of my carbon bikes broke. Gave up on Carbon. Steel Works better for me and looks much better. Not a fan of the weird shapes. My last carbon , Trek Madone stays on a trainer indoors. Not far to carry when it breaks. It will break eventually. It's the Indian not the arrow
Carbon frames if need to be build strong they need more carbon materials and will be heavy. If build light the walls of carbon frames need to be thin, when carbon frames are thin they do crack. For the price of carbon I get the latest titanium frame, even my 1998 dean colonel still going strong and appreciating in value year by year. It is like riding on mtb gold.
@@LT-og4ff agreed. I chased it for years. Frames, wheels, forks. Seats anything carbon broke. I have steel bikes from the 70s forward. I only ride metal bikes outside. I ride gravel. Miles from pavement. I need durable not long walks home
If you wanted to seal it you could always use an e proxy resin and em gently apply some with a nail varnish brush. Or using a lacquer would be good. But the resins do go all the way through the bar so sealing them isn’t a mandatory process but it’s definitely not going to cause any harm.
Years ago I somehow picked up a dent about 10mm in size on the seatstay of my old 2010 giant trance and I kept riding it for a couple of years without any problems, then I sold it to a friend and he still owns it today, so its been at least 10 years of riding with a dent in the rear triangle and its been fine.
Thats because this guy spouting bullshit about dented alloy frames has no actual clue about metals at all! I’ve ran a cracked banshee scream for years and its not even budged a single mm since 🤣 do that with carbon!!!
I had a 2008 S-Works stump jumper and the carbon started to delaminate after 15ys (probably due to UV issues) where as my 2006 allow enduro frame is still working great smashing through welsh rocks at Bike Parks. I dont trust carbon reinforced plastic resin and i believe its actually a cheaper to manufacture plastic bikes than alloy but we are being told it premier to improve the margins of the manufacturing companies further and expected to replace them more often.
I think something like this happened with LCDs and Plasmas. LCDs were cheaper to make with higher margins but Plasma had better picture and movement characteristics. The industry sold LCDs based on the thinness and power use despite neither mattering more for most people.
The price of a thing is dictated by supply and demand. Someone lying to the public about a thing being more expensive to produce does not change the price of it. Meanwhile, I've had an aluminum mountain bike fail at a weld, and my carbon one has been fine despite way more abuse. I don't trust welded aluminum frames. (yes I do, I'm just pointing out how your argument is silly)
I bought my carbon hard tail in 2017 second hand and I’ve put 7000 miles on it , scratch’s chips the wheels worn a groove in it , Never had a creak out of it ! Still going strong 🤷
15 year bike mechanic here.. Completely disagree, aluminum is a better starter frame material unless you have no budget. Carbon in every way is more expensive to repair or replace. If you ride hard and go big then carbon has a shorter lifespan. You have to also hope your carbon frame was manufactured properly where as alloy not so much.
Im a young keen XCO ridder I bought a Scott scale 900 comp (2020 model) and it came with a SX drive train however just before a race my derailleur bent badly. I was told that SX would not last anyway as most of it was just hard plastic. So bought a NX derailleur thinking it was going to work a lot better... a few months ago it had bent it again...is that SRAM problem as I have not spent enough money to get the GX and up or was the problem that It might not be made for racing ? thanks ! Show less
@gmbntech in what situation will companies who offer lifetime warranties on frames not pay out? Are these issues mentioned with older carbon frames, that use aluminium bonded components such as bb shells and water bottle mounts, covered in manufacturers warranties?
If you are a team rider and get free frames then carbon is fine, if you want a bike that will last, buy aluminium, every chip graze rub mark will create a weak spot that will eventually start to delaminate, not to mention that sunlight and flexing can cause also cause delamination. carbon frames are just a step towards designed redundancy that drive future sales
So, to be clear. Your grandson and probably not even your son will ride your basement-found carbon frame. Or, even more, there will be no vintage 2010s carbon frames in the 2050s. Or, even worse, in 30 years nobody will be able to ride how we used to in our days.
@@feedbackzaloop Al alloys are the future of frame materials, far better for the environment, and easily recyclable. Also, advancements in the materials place weight nearly on par with carbon. Carbon frames are temporary, kind of like combustion engines... Unless we can produce fuel from carbon capture.
Depends how hard you ride" There are no videos of aluminum frames breaking. I would not repair a carbon frame because you have made the molecular structure weak. Carbon frames are bloody death traps.
Is this an advertisement for carbon? Alloy is also repairable. If you and build it, you can repair it. Yeah, you need more skill when cutting, fabricating, and welding metals, but it is absolutely possible and it’s done often.
I would have thought galvanic corrosion would mean any carbon frame has a very finite lifespan? If the bike never comes into contact with water, lifespan would be far longer. Of course, it's possible to repair localised damage on a carbon frame, but in common with any composite part, the damage may well extend much further than what is visible, which makes repair very much hit-and-miss process, unless the damage is very minor. In many ways the disadvantages of composite frames, for the majority, outweigh the advantages by a fair way.
That’s insane that a carbon frame will only last 5-8 years that is at least where the aluminum bottle cage bolts and BB are mated with the carbon. 20-25 year use by date for carbon also seems crazy that there’s not a similarity priced
that answered alot of questions I had about carbon bikes 👌 my enduro is full carbon and never push it hard as I always worried about the frame. poor bike is gonna get a thrashing this weekend now 🤣😂
Interesting, but one of the only fact that keeps me far from carbon (composite should we say) is that frames and parts are simply not recyclable, so no thanks. It's a pity that you didn't come to that major problem. Difficult to come to that problem with a carbon-convinced...
Carbon resin is HUGELY chemical resistant. Utter myth... if u have exposed fibres for grease or anything to get in between, thats ur problem... not grease on resin or gel coat!
@@rupedog that's true on the surface there is absolutely no problem but due to manufacturing you have to have a look on sanded or open surfaces. When there is paint don't worry.
I maintain composite fibre aircraft - both carbon and glass types. Some airframes are over 40 years old. We have lots of grease floating around here, particularly places like spar end and lift pin bearings - ie very high load bearing structures with copious amounts of grease for metal on metal contact. Never once seen grease cause problems. Even fuel tanks will run without sealer on them, though most of the time they do for other reasons like sealing up micro cracks.
@@justincouch6964 thanks a lot so it seams I'm a wrong with my thoughts and need to get deeper into that. Maybe it's something else that made the fibers crack open. Thanks Justin! Got me thinking!
Why wouldn't you be able to weld an aluminum frame? Why would it be weaker? Aluminum frames are welded from the factory and they are strong. WELDING aluminum frame will NOT cause problems. These welds must be done by someone that is really experienced in tig welding.
If the frame is made of 6061 you have to do a heat treatment after the welding, or the bike is likely to crack at the weld again. It's possible, but it's not for free and the paint job is gone afterwards. The way of heat treatment depends on the alloy, 6061 needs heat treatment while you can harden 7005 by storing the frame at room temperature for a couple of months. So repairs on 7005 frames are simpler to do than with 6061 frames
Carbon expert not sure if pipe cutter will make a complete mess of cutting a bar. They cut by ductile deformation of both sides of the cut, and one thing carbon is NOT is ductile. Pipe cutters would just make the carbon bars crumble.
It's on the manufacturer to QA their suppliers so it shouldn't matter where it's built - it's how much the manufacturer values their brand. I'd expect no name Chinese brands would have much bigger variations in quality than a brand that has an established QA process for all their suppliers.
This is kind of piss poor. The “expert” didn’t seem to know that much about his subject area and both of them really didn’t seem to understand the questions. The question about carbon frame and aluminum rear triangle did not involve any issues with compatibility or bonding with the two materials. The question necessarily involves a full suspension bike, not some Frankenstein hardtail.
@AskGMBNTech Sprocket terminology confusion. Hi Tech team. Shifting up, Shifting down. Higher gear, lower gear. The only thing that makes sense to me is inner or outer and the derailleur screws aren't even called that. Can you help define these terms please? Love you both and have learned enough to be comfortable doing all my own wrenching on my 29 hardtail. Thanks.. you have saved me $100s of dollars \,,/
Personally I ask myself, other than the very top end race bikes that are ridden for one season, are the majority of motocross bike frames carbon? And am i going to thrash my mtb or race it in XC?
So you can't repair an aluminium frame by welding is that what you're suggestion is...there must be quite a few bike builders around the country able to do this just as easily as a carbon frame?
yes you can weld aluminium frame, but it will not be so strong as not original and the difference is that carbon can be repaired back to its full strength
@@jakubcap_ In that case I would look to replace the whole cross tube / welded (think thats the example used) and have it back to factory condition? Just how common are these events in real life?
@@jakubcap_ I concede it would not be cheap and damage to both a carbon or alloy frame has to be weighed up against the cost of a simply buying another frame.
Of course you can. And how strong it will turn out depends on the welder, it's not always worse than original (just like patching up carbon may vary in quality). Joshua was indeed speaking from the perspective of better knowledge of carbon repair. Not to mention most of the dents are repairable without welding but with bending followed by annealing
@@eniojurko yeah I'm talking about the failure due to loads not through the environment. Mountainbike frames usually fail due to fatigue or single overloads in a much shorter time than they would break through material degradation. But yes, if you store a bike in a shed and want to ride it in 70 years, the plastic aging would be a problem as well
The problem with carbon is not the strength in the intended direction (where carbon is very strong), it's the force in lateral direction like if the frame gets a hit from a rock or in the case of a crash. A crystalline material like metal can withstand a smaller impact of a rock, or may get a dent in worst case, while a carbon tube (since it's a fiber material) can break at the impact point.
#AskGMBNTech Im on a budget to buy my first full suspension MTB and im wondering what's better, a brand new 2022 Rockrider AM100S (Decathlon top of line all mountain bike) or a 2-4 year old used alloy or carbon bike in that same 2k€ range. What is better? Thanks!
His comment about aluminum components corroding has me wondering if we should be putting titanium inserts in instead, sure it would be pricey by ti is forever
#AskGMBNTech Hello Doddy/Anna, I over sent a 6ft drop at the local woods, bottomed my fork out and was spat over the bars, Over the next few rides i noticed oil around the damper controls. Is it likely ive only blown a seal or could i have damaged the shim stack or something else inside the damper? The fork is a zeb ultimate with the 2.1 damper. I know my way around forks so not shy of doing the work myself.
#AskGMBNTech Hi GMBN, I have Specialized Status 160 and want to remove the 5mm spacer inside the shock (60 to 65mm stroke) to increase the rear travel. If the tire clearance is fine, are there any downsides? If I keep the same pressure / sag in mm as before, the bike should ride exactly the same, beside having some more travel at the end correct? Thank you JP
The only thing about Chinese carbon mtb frames is they buy old molds or the make molds that have old geometry. It would be like buying an older bike brand new.
Im positive that yhere are many good chinese carbon parts out yhere, but i might stay away from ebay no name carbon bars. I had a set that seemed great...until they snapped on the up pull of a bunny hop on my hardtail. Luckily I was just on flat ground and not going very fast
#AskGMBNTech I've seen patents from Shimano and heard of Magura working on Wireless Brakes. I don't know the details, and I'm no engineer, but I've wondered if, with Bluetooth and magnets if this would be possible. Any news on this or what are your thoughts? Thanks.
#askgmbntech Are there widely accepted carbon fiber frame standards that all brands have to follow? How can we know which brands build better carbon frames, or at least which are more rigid, responsive, stronger, etc.?
I've a giant xtc 2013 that has been my winter bike since 2016 it has a chip on the top tube, and a few hairline cracks on the seat tube some grease is showing on the head tube from the bearing (theres a dark ring) I ride it fairly hard, and absolutely love it .. should I be concerned by these little imperfections. #askgmbntech
#AskGMBNTech A lot of times 29ers are credited to be faster, agile, stiffer, lesser rolling res etc. but why? Surely those emperical results have fundamental explanation.
Never heard stiffer, and they’re widely considered slightly less agile than smaller wheels, but… definitely faster and better roll-over with obstacles. Are you asking for an explanation how larger circles roll over things more easily? Larger circles lessen the angle, effectively decreasing the relative size of the obstacles they’re encountering.
Imagine a 6 inch high obstacle, with a 6 inch diameter wheel. Hard to rolll over. Now imagine a 100inch diameter wheel. Barely notices. That is the bulk of it, though there are secondary benefits relating to how much energy is lost in tire deformation. The downside is you have a heavier wheel and tire, and if you are a small person the bike will not be able to be in the best geometry for you, since the wheels get in the way. Kind of sucks right now if you are really short.
As far as an aluminum shell, such as BB Infinite, pressed into a press fit carbon frame. The shell is anodized, is that shell going to corrode like the referenced bottle cage bosses?
@@janeblogs324 electrochemical corrosion is not about electrons, but ions. Anodizing prevents metal ions exchange electrons for oxygen ions. Not to mention anodizing is actually a dielectric. It is insufficient as an insulator for common use due to small thickness, but blocks galvanic currents.
#askgmbntech hello first off love the show keep doing what your doing. I have a 2017/18 yt jeffesy 29 with dtwsiss wheels during maintenance I found I need a new rear cassette once removed found damage to the freehub body. Now wheels are used and some spokes could do with being replaced but do you think it's worth up grading the freehub from there 3pawl to the newer star ratchet system and respoking them ready to go tubless or save my money and put towards a new set of budget friendly wheels later donw the line. Would I gain much out of new wheels if I have got 1000s to spend on a new set or would my ones be better and cheeper with fast engagement thanks.
When it comes to trust in manufacturing, there is a HUGE difference between Taiwan and mainland China. Taiwan has proven itself over decades to produce reliably high quality, quality controlled product. Mainland China has not.
Sounds like the point of a carbon fork on aluminum frame was completely missed when answering the question. Guess it's GMBN though so road/cx/gravel may be out of the purview. Also, would never trust this place to repair carbon with a claim that carbon doesn't degrade over time itself without use. Material science much?
I’ve never trashed an alloy frame, I had a 1990 Saracen mountain bike no suspension. After 25 years the frame fell apart. Whereas I have damaged two carbon frames, both times it was the seat stay and was because I put a rear wheel down a rabbit hole, and the other time was dropping off a rock. Frame manufacturer replaced both times, but that was enough for me, seeing nasty sharp stabbing weapons an inch from my nether regions was enough to put me off.
#AskGMBNTech hey guys, I was wondering if you guys can explain a creaking coming from my bike. It appears to be from the fork area and I believe it is the Rockshox boxxer. If it is possible for a boxxer to creak is there anyway to fix it? Thanks guys
@@rupedogsome parts likea handlebar yes but frame not. In the wet condition carbon being soft and weak they cant last long like steel my grandpa's 1960's steel bike in my carage rideable
@@zixon5359 so how do you explain sailplanes that have been running GFRP since the late 60s, and CFRP since the early 80s. Most of those airframes are still flying today - 40+ years later with upwards of 10,000hrs flight time on them. Then you've got the modern airliners like the B787 that is all entirely composite structures looking at 100K hours or more pretty easily. All these structures deal with massive temperature extremes, icing, wet weather, pressurisation cycles etc. Steel isn't used as primary structures in any of these for good reasons.
#askgmbntech what bike should I get I have a really old hard tail that’s not meant to be a mountain bike and I’m looking to get a hard tail my budget is 2500 Canadian dollars
Most carbon frames are made in China, even the brand ones. While Taiwan has its automated Aluminium frame production lines China makes most carbon stuff
@@gabrieljordan9977 not for sure... One is more time dependant, another is dominantly funcion of loading. So there are plenty of cases when carbon outlasts alu and steel, and definetely there is a time when nothing survives🤷♂
@@feedbackzaloop Well its true that sometimes none of them survives certain crashes but I still feel like carbon is more delicate than aluminum or steel. Aluminum or steel over carbon for me.
Do you have an MTB-Tech-related question for Doddy or Anna? Use the hashtag #AskGMBNTech with your comment for a chance to be featured on the channel!
So the answer to the title of the video is "If you treat it well, it will last long, if you don't treat it well it will not last that long". Thanks! 18 minutes well spent. This channel is clearly run by journalists, because they have the ability to talk for hours without saying nothing.
GMBN Tech did it again: A Muc-Off Commercial under the guise of "Let's talk tech with an expert..."
this fella also didn't seem to have a good word to say about alloy on bikes, not even alloy bikes as a whole, didn't even like alloy parts like BB's or bottle cage bosses. He just wanted to shill his carbon superiority...
What tosh.
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@@jawide626 right, didn't even answer the question about alloy rear triangles really. My YT Izzo has an Alloy rear end and it's great. Why would corrosion matter in that case.
@@jawide626 100 % Agree. Also, if Carbon is so good why isn't there any hard core hard tails made in Carbon? Definitely an Anti Alloy expert. Carbon while lovely, is for people with deep pockets and\so sponsored riders\commentators
eviewers. That said, I still enjoy GMBN and GMBN tech.
GMBN loves carbon as much as they love Muc-Off.
"A whole frame out of whack" while showing blakes hardtail project on B roll killed me lmaoo
Why would a aluminium bike not be repairable? Seems like a pretty straight forward job with a TIG welder.
hard to heat treat the repaired areas. without proper heat treating the frame will never function as designed.
Just started watching this video. Do not use pipe cutters to cut carbon bars. You risk crushing the fibres. Always use an appropriate saw cutting tool.
It's almost 100 percent chance that it will damage the handlebars.. It kinda makes me think about his other opinions , being a carbon expert you should know this
The answer to the question in the video title wasn't really answered properly. 25 years seemed to be just plucked out of thin air to me.
2024 and I'm still riding my 08 Specialized Enduro
Alloy, Steel and Ti frames can also be repaired if need, i had a cracked Zaskar frame wielded up once and dents can be filled. It just doesnt happen so often so there isnt such an industry for it. But to be fair to the local firm, its good to know this carbon repair service is available as i expect they will become very busy in the future, my neighbour recommends theses guys as they repaired a chain stay on his carbon road bike and its been great he tells me.
I think 8:17 is supposed to be about the fact the bike company has gone with a alloy swing arm on a carbon main frame, and what your thoughts are on this sacrifice - rather than the corrosion factor.
Yes so true. The response seemed too much like a chance to slash alloy..
I was waiting for this comment as I have a vitus escarpe 2021 which has a alloy rear end. the 2022 is full carbon
I'll take an alloy swing arm every time.
"Quite old" is 5-8 years for carbon huh?... here I am riding one of my 30yo steel frames, just keeps going. Oh well.
yeah But It din"t Cost you over 5 Grand for the Bare Frame , Your out of Touch Bro Got too Flog Expensive Crap Too The Masses while we Can , too get our Cut of the Profits
I’ve never seen an alloy or steel frame fail, but I have seen an Evil Following MB snap off of a two foot drop (mostly due to rider error and lack of upkeep). My alloy GT Force from 2020/2021 has taken the biggest hits of my riding career and aside from some scuffs to the paint it’s totally fine. Not to mention that I payed $3500 for a bike that would have been closer to $5000 if it was a carbon framed variant.
I've snapped and bent steel and aluminum frames, definitely take a good carbon for fatigue resistance alone, although my carbon crashes haven't damaged the frames.
@@galenkehler so which one are more reliable carbon or alloy lets exclude steel as it is really tough it's just that it is heavy
@@marklouieadame in my experience the best for long term is anything without aluminum in it.
A carbon frame with a pressfit BB would be ideal. Aluminum eventually cracks, and any aluminum insert (BB, headset cups, water bottle bosses) will eventually fail. Water bottle bosses are pretty easy to repair so thats not too bad, as are carbon lugs generally, such as dropouts. They can be rebonded in my experience without too much hassle.
@@marklouieadame depends how hard you ride. If you’re riding bike park I choose aluminum. You see a lot more carbon frames cracking then aluminum frames.
@@galenkehler i have a 26 incher and trying to find a 29er frame that i could build as i dont like buying a bike as a whole i like it building it myself and anything that would fit my budget and also something on parts that i could spend more like better shifter and crankset budget but not too shabby like a balance performance. Trying to build an XC/Enduro in one i find alluminum good too but there is less 29er allow available in the market they are mostly carbon so i may end up buying carbon frame. I still appreciate my alloy 26inc very agile light and so fun to ride although of course a little slow but quick on trails. I want a new build following a new trend which is 29er
All 8of my carbon bikes broke. Gave up on Carbon. Steel
Works better for me and looks much better. Not a fan of the weird shapes. My last carbon , Trek Madone stays on a trainer indoors. Not far to carry when it breaks. It will break eventually. It's the Indian not the arrow
Carbon frames if need to be build strong they need more carbon materials and will be heavy. If build light the walls of carbon frames need to be thin, when carbon frames are thin they do crack. For the price of carbon I get the latest titanium frame, even my 1998 dean colonel still going strong and appreciating in value year by year. It is like riding on mtb gold.
@@LT-og4ff agreed. I chased it for years. Frames, wheels, forks. Seats anything carbon broke. I have steel bikes from the 70s forward. I only ride metal bikes outside. I ride gravel. Miles from pavement. I need durable not long walks home
you talk so much about cutting carbon bars. but after cutting, the fiber is exposed. why no word how to seal it?
If you wanted to seal it you could always use an e proxy resin and em gently apply some with a nail varnish brush.
Or using a lacquer would be good.
But the resins do go all the way through the bar so sealing them isn’t a mandatory process but it’s definitely not going to cause any harm.
Carbon frames I doubt can take a true beating off road,there for the on road bike racers.
Years ago I somehow picked up a dent about 10mm in size on the seatstay of my old 2010 giant trance and I kept riding it for a couple of years without any problems, then I sold it to a friend and he still owns it today, so its been at least 10 years of riding with a dent in the rear triangle and its been fine.
Thats because this guy spouting bullshit about dented alloy frames has no actual clue about metals at all! I’ve ran a cracked banshee scream for years and its not even budged a single mm since 🤣 do that with carbon!!!
Lmao, that's when I know you guys are lying. Anything that gets dented is unrideable and unrepairable. Found the aluminum 8s better bots.
@@kevinburke1325 I'm not lying, it received a small dent in the seatstay, and its still fine.
@benjy288 okay well, I got a dent in aluminum before and it completely destroyed the bike soooo... excuse me if I don't believe you.
@@benjy288 aluminum alloy breaks and shreds to pieces easily. Carbon is way stronger.
5-8 years is an old bike frame. The bike manufacturers will love that advice. But have to agree combining alloy and carbon together is a bad idea.
I would Go for Carbon,if I have the budget but right now it's very expensive 🫰 here in the Philippines.Very informative,Keep Safe, God bless...
I had a 2008 S-Works stump jumper and the carbon started to delaminate after 15ys (probably due to UV issues) where as my 2006 allow enduro frame is still working great smashing through welsh rocks at Bike Parks. I dont trust carbon reinforced plastic resin and i believe its actually a cheaper to manufacture plastic bikes than alloy but we are being told it premier to improve the margins of the manufacturing companies further and expected to replace them more often.
I think something like this happened with LCDs and Plasmas. LCDs were cheaper to make with higher margins but Plasma had better picture and movement characteristics. The industry sold LCDs based on the thinness and power use despite neither mattering more for most people.
The price of a thing is dictated by supply and demand. Someone lying to the public about a thing being more expensive to produce does not change the price of it. Meanwhile, I've had an aluminum mountain bike fail at a weld, and my carbon one has been fine despite way more abuse. I don't trust welded aluminum frames. (yes I do, I'm just pointing out how your argument is silly)
I bought my carbon hard tail in 2017 second hand and I’ve put 7000 miles on it , scratch’s chips the wheels worn a groove in it ,
Never had a creak out of it !
Still going strong
🤷
That's amazing! You must keep it running great!
which model and what brand ?
Pipe cutters on carbon!?!? These two are way too polite. It’s a terrible idea.
I discovered that the hard way..... and now I know!
Exactly. Not in a million years would I use a pipe cutter on carbon bars. That's just asking for trouble.
They work very well. They leave a nice straight clean cut. Many people do it on seatposts and bars....
Dented chainstay here, been that way since 2012 and it still sends roadgaps that break carbon frames.
15 year bike mechanic here.. Completely disagree, aluminum is a better starter frame material unless you have no budget. Carbon in every way is more expensive to repair or replace. If you ride hard and go big then carbon has a shorter lifespan. You have to also hope your carbon frame was manufactured properly where as alloy not so much.
Im a young keen XCO ridder I bought a Scott scale 900 comp (2020 model) and it came with a SX drive train however just before a race my derailleur bent badly. I was told that SX would not last anyway as most of it was just hard plastic. So bought a NX derailleur thinking it was going to work a lot better... a few months ago it had bent it again...is that SRAM problem as I have not spent enough money to get the GX and up or was the problem that It might not be made for racing ? thanks !
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I've bought my Scott Spark LTD in 2008. It's as good as new. Hope that my current spark tuned will stay for a decade too.
@gmbntech in what situation will companies who offer lifetime warranties on frames not pay out? Are these issues mentioned with older carbon frames, that use aluminium bonded components such as bb shells and water bottle mounts, covered in manufacturers warranties?
If you are a team rider and get free frames then carbon is fine, if you want a bike that will last, buy aluminium, every chip graze rub mark will create a weak spot that will eventually start to delaminate, not to mention that sunlight and flexing can cause also cause delamination. carbon frames are just a step towards designed redundancy that drive future sales
You had to do it...! Open Pandora's carbon v aluminium/steel box!!
Next week... shimano v sram brakes🤔😂😂😂😂
So, to be clear. Your grandson and probably not even your son will ride your basement-found carbon frame. Or, even more, there will be no vintage 2010s carbon frames in the 2050s. Or, even worse, in 30 years nobody will be able to ride how we used to in our days.
neither will he ride an alu frame... Or not for long at least. And probably for good, since by that time tech will envolve
Steel it is then.
@@feedbackzaloop Al alloys are the future of frame materials, far better for the environment, and easily recyclable. Also, advancements in the materials place weight nearly on par with carbon. Carbon frames are temporary, kind of like combustion engines... Unless we can produce fuel from carbon capture.
@@jeffreydzialo hell yeah if you f*ck your alloy frame you could always strip the paint and melt it down to raw material and recast as a new frame!
I’d love that. Who is making alloy frames with these newest alloys?
it cracks me up that this question is just now being addressed.
I don't know a soul who uses muck-off products but I guess I'm glad they seem to sponsor these tech shows.
I use a power miter saw to cut carbon bars. The cuts are super clean and square.
Nail polish for touch up and clear coating... Boys ...Gel top coat also.
“If it’s within budget…” the bane of my quest to get back into cycling.
To cut carbon use a 32 tooth hacksaw blade or use a cut off wheel use the Correct tool
Love the Video !!! So mutch good and important Information...thanks to both of you 🤘🤘
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it! We love making these ask videos to help everyone out! 👍
Depends how hard you ride"
There are no videos of aluminum frames breaking.
I would not repair a carbon frame because you have made the molecular structure weak.
Carbon frames are bloody death traps.
Watched the video for an answer, did not get a clear answer.
Is this an advertisement for carbon? Alloy is also repairable. If you and build it, you can repair it. Yeah, you need more skill when cutting, fabricating, and welding metals, but it is absolutely possible and it’s done often.
I would have thought galvanic corrosion would mean any carbon frame has a very finite lifespan? If the bike never comes into contact with water, lifespan would be far longer. Of course, it's possible to repair localised damage on a carbon frame, but in common with any composite part, the damage may well extend much further than what is visible, which makes repair very much hit-and-miss process, unless the damage is very minor. In many ways the disadvantages of composite frames, for the majority, outweigh the advantages by a fair way.
I’m patiently waiting for my CF Santa Cruz to crack so I can get a upgrade to the new 5010. Their lifetime warranty is killer.
That’s insane that a carbon frame will only last 5-8 years that is at least where the aluminum bottle cage bolts and BB are mated with the carbon. 20-25 year use by date for carbon also seems crazy that there’s not a similarity priced
There's a lot of valid questions from viewers. Unfortunately, most of the answers are incorrect from the guest.
that answered alot of questions I had about carbon bikes 👌 my enduro is full carbon and never push it hard as I always worried about the frame. poor bike is gonna get a thrashing this weekend now 🤣😂
They are so wrong. Font believe me, read the other comments. Gmbn tech is off now, stop listening to them
Interesting, but one of the only fact that keeps me far from carbon (composite should we say) is that frames and parts are simply not recyclable, so no thanks. It's a pity that you didn't come to that major problem. Difficult to come to that problem with a carbon-convinced...
He completely missed the carbon frontend/aluminum rearend question.
Grease and carbon is problematic. I have seen some frames dissolve in areas of BB and headset cause the grease is creating in-between the fibers
Carbon resin is HUGELY chemical resistant. Utter myth... if u have exposed fibres for grease or anything to get in between, thats ur problem... not grease on resin or gel coat!
@@rupedog that's true on the surface there is absolutely no problem but due to manufacturing you have to have a look on sanded or open surfaces. When there is paint don't worry.
I maintain composite fibre aircraft - both carbon and glass types. Some airframes are over 40 years old. We have lots of grease floating around here, particularly places like spar end and lift pin bearings - ie very high load bearing structures with copious amounts of grease for metal on metal contact. Never once seen grease cause problems. Even fuel tanks will run without sealer on them, though most of the time they do for other reasons like sealing up micro cracks.
@@justincouch6964 thanks a lot so it seams I'm a wrong with my thoughts and need to get deeper into that. Maybe it's something else that made the fibers crack open. Thanks Justin! Got me thinking!
Why wouldn't you be able to weld an aluminum frame? Why would it be weaker? Aluminum frames are welded from the factory and they are strong. WELDING aluminum frame will NOT cause problems. These welds must be done by someone that is really experienced in tig welding.
because it has to be heat treated post weld, otherwise the weld is not part of the entire metal structure like it is post factory heat treatment.
If the frame is made of 6061 you have to do a heat treatment after the welding, or the bike is likely to crack at the weld again. It's possible, but it's not for free and the paint job is gone afterwards.
The way of heat treatment depends on the alloy, 6061 needs heat treatment while you can harden 7005 by storing the frame at room temperature for a couple of months. So repairs on 7005 frames are simpler to do than with 6061 frames
@@simonm1447 age hardening, did my frame 10 years ago and still going strong
@@dalegowling2732 indeed, but it only works with 7005
@@davidross8233 An oven and a clock ?
Very helpful. Thank you so much for sharing your real-world experience and busting the myths.
Glad it was helpful! We really appreciate the support! 👊
Chips most all ways go deep in fibre
06:35 on the right: "should we even talk about it...."
Carbon expert not sure if pipe cutter will make a complete mess of cutting a bar. They cut by ductile deformation of both sides of the cut, and one thing carbon is NOT is ductile. Pipe cutters would just make the carbon bars crumble.
It's on the manufacturer to QA their suppliers so it shouldn't matter where it's built - it's how much the manufacturer values their brand. I'd expect no name Chinese brands would have much bigger variations in quality than a brand that has an established QA process for all their suppliers.
This is kind of piss poor. The “expert” didn’t seem to know that much about his subject area and both of them really didn’t seem to understand the questions. The question about carbon frame and aluminum rear triangle did not involve any issues with compatibility or bonding with the two materials. The question necessarily involves a full suspension bike, not some Frankenstein hardtail.
Really depends on what they are as lets face it SC and a lot of the other big brands are all mass produced mega now.
@AskGMBNTech Sprocket terminology confusion. Hi Tech team. Shifting up, Shifting down. Higher gear, lower gear. The only thing that makes sense to me is inner or outer and the derailleur screws aren't even called that. Can you help define these terms please? Love you both and have learned enough to be comfortable doing all my own wrenching on my 29 hardtail. Thanks.. you have saved me $100s of dollars \,,/
Personally I ask myself, other than the very top end race bikes that are ridden for one season, are the majority of motocross bike frames carbon? And am i going to thrash my mtb or race it in XC?
"motocross bike frames" ??? we are making word salad out of bike types, and bike hypes.
So you can't repair an aluminium frame by welding is that what you're suggestion is...there must be quite a few bike builders around the country able to do this just as easily as a carbon frame?
yes you can weld aluminium frame, but it will not be so strong as not original and the difference is that carbon can be repaired back to its full strength
@@jakubcap_ In that case I would look to replace the whole cross tube / welded (think thats the example used) and have it back to factory condition? Just how common are these events in real life?
@@peteturner8493 yeah this would probably work
@@jakubcap_ I concede it would not be cheap and damage to both a carbon or alloy frame has to be weighed up against the cost of a simply buying another frame.
Of course you can. And how strong it will turn out depends on the welder, it's not always worse than original (just like patching up carbon may vary in quality). Joshua was indeed speaking from the perspective of better knowledge of carbon repair.
Not to mention most of the dents are repairable without welding but with bending followed by annealing
Lifetime of carbon parts can be pretty long if engineered and manufactured right. Fatigue is a much bigger problem with aluminium
Not always. It depends upon quality of manufacturing.
@@JohnDir-xw3hf "if engineered AND manufactured right"
Aluminium always has a finite number of load cycles till it breaks, carbon composite does not
@@daylight31415 you forget about epoxy that holds that carbon together, plastic fantastic does fail!
@@eniojurko yeah I'm talking about the failure due to loads not through the environment. Mountainbike frames usually fail due to fatigue or single overloads in a much shorter time than they would break through material degradation. But yes, if you store a bike in a shed and want to ride it in 70 years, the plastic aging would be a problem as well
The problem with carbon is not the strength in the intended direction (where carbon is very strong), it's the force in lateral direction like if the frame gets a hit from a rock or in the case of a crash. A crystalline material like metal can withstand a smaller impact of a rock, or may get a dent in worst case, while a carbon tube (since it's a fiber material) can break at the impact point.
4:31 I've seen some guys here who tried cutting carbon bars with a pipe cutter. It was horrendously messy. You're better off with a saw for that job.
#AskGMBNTech Im on a budget to buy my first full suspension MTB and im wondering what's better, a brand new 2022 Rockrider AM100S (Decathlon top of line all mountain bike) or a 2-4 year old used alloy or carbon bike in that same 2k€ range. What is better? Thanks!
Titanium is the best choice old skool is best..
Metals of some sort with carbon parts on maybe the swing arm handle bars and some other things shave weight but whole frame ehhhhhhh.....
His comment about aluminum components corroding has me wondering if we should be putting titanium inserts in instead, sure it would be pricey by ti is forever
Whart does he think of all the carbon issues with Canyon frames?
#AskGMBNTech
Hello Doddy/Anna, I over sent a 6ft drop at the local woods, bottomed my fork out and was spat over the bars, Over the next few rides i noticed oil around the damper controls. Is it likely ive only blown a seal or could i have damaged the shim stack or something else inside the damper? The fork is a zeb ultimate with the 2.1 damper. I know my way around forks so not shy of doing the work myself.
#AskGMBNTech Hi GMBN, I have Specialized Status 160 and want to remove the 5mm spacer inside the shock (60 to 65mm stroke) to increase the rear travel. If the tire clearance is fine, are there any downsides? If I keep the same pressure / sag in mm as before, the bike should ride exactly the same, beside having some more travel at the end correct?
Thank you
JP
The only thing about Chinese carbon mtb frames is they buy old molds or the make molds that have old geometry. It would be like buying an older bike brand new.
Im positive that yhere are many good chinese carbon parts out yhere, but i might stay away from ebay no name carbon bars. I had a set that seemed great...until they snapped on the up pull of a bunny hop on my hardtail. Luckily I was just on flat ground and not going very fast
#AskGMBNTech I've seen patents from Shimano and heard of Magura working on Wireless Brakes. I don't know the details, and I'm no engineer, but I've wondered if, with Bluetooth and magnets if this would be possible. Any news on this or what are your thoughts? Thanks.
It is possible, but probably not a good idea.
#askgmbntech Are there widely accepted carbon fiber frame standards that all brands have to follow? How can we know which brands build better carbon frames, or at least which are more rigid, responsive, stronger, etc.?
no there are no standards, and you can't really know other than to maybe avoid ones that are trying to be as light as possible.
Does a carbon flex stay last forever? I doubt it.
If it‘s designed for that, no worries. Think of carbon plan wings.
@@chrisridesbicycles so continual load stress is the same as repeated spiked stress input
@@timothyjamesiscool Which is true for every material. Neither even titanium breaks if you bend it back and forth many times.
Why does no one cover the handling difference, between Aluminum and carbon…
I've a giant xtc 2013 that has been my winter bike since 2016 it has a chip on the top tube, and a few hairline cracks on the seat tube some grease is showing on the head tube from the bearing (theres a dark ring) I ride it fairly hard, and absolutely love it .. should I be concerned by these little imperfections. #askgmbntech
#AskGMBNTech A lot of times 29ers are credited to be faster, agile, stiffer, lesser rolling res etc. but why? Surely those emperical results have fundamental explanation.
Never heard stiffer, and they’re widely considered slightly less agile than smaller wheels, but… definitely faster and better roll-over with obstacles. Are you asking for an explanation how larger circles roll over things more easily? Larger circles lessen the angle, effectively decreasing the relative size of the obstacles they’re encountering.
Imagine a 6 inch high obstacle, with a 6 inch diameter wheel. Hard to rolll over. Now imagine a 100inch diameter wheel. Barely notices. That is the bulk of it, though there are secondary benefits relating to how much energy is lost in tire deformation. The downside is you have a heavier wheel and tire, and if you are a small person the bike will not be able to be in the best geometry for you, since the wheels get in the way. Kind of sucks right now if you are really short.
You can repair dents in a metal frame. You will have to go to a panel beeter.
As far as an aluminum shell, such as BB Infinite, pressed into a press fit carbon frame. The shell is anodized, is that shell going to corrode like the referenced bottle cage bosses?
Sure will corrode. They epoxy threaded BBS in carbon to prevent contact, but that's why shimano sell nylon cups
As long as anodized layer isn't scratched, should be fine.
@@feedbackzaloop anodizing doesn't prevent electrons passing
@@janeblogs324 electrochemical corrosion is not about electrons, but ions. Anodizing prevents metal ions exchange electrons for oxygen ions.
Not to mention anodizing is actually a dielectric. It is insufficient as an insulator for common use due to small thickness, but blocks galvanic currents.
#askgmbntech hello first off love the show keep doing what your doing. I have a 2017/18 yt jeffesy 29 with dtwsiss wheels during maintenance I found I need a new rear cassette once removed found damage to the freehub body. Now wheels are used and some spokes could do with being replaced but do you think it's worth up grading the freehub from there 3pawl to the newer star ratchet system and respoking them ready to go tubless or save my money and put towards a new set of budget friendly wheels later donw the line. Would I gain much out of new wheels if I have got 1000s to spend on a new set or would my ones be better and cheeper with fast engagement thanks.
#AskGMBNTech I would like to know, if I had a 27.5' bike and a 29' wheel could fit on the front, why would I not do it?
Need a new fork likely... and will raise ur front end and bb, and could ruin the handling
Cracked carbon handlebars? Just replace em. A repair would probably cost just as much or more than a new handlebar.
#AskGMBNTech Can we pls talk about titanium next, pls🥺... I don't even know if this passes as a legitimate question😅
When it comes to trust in manufacturing, there is a HUGE difference between Taiwan and mainland China. Taiwan has proven itself over decades to produce reliably high quality, quality controlled product. Mainland China has not.
If carbon bikes weren't prettier, they wouldn't exist
Sounds like the point of a carbon fork on aluminum frame was completely missed when answering the question. Guess it's GMBN though so road/cx/gravel may be out of the purview. Also, would never trust this place to repair carbon with a claim that carbon doesn't degrade over time itself without use. Material science much?
UV, heat expansion cycles, aluminium to carbon corrosion with moisture
I’ve never trashed an alloy frame, I had a 1990 Saracen mountain bike no suspension. After 25 years the frame fell apart. Whereas I have damaged two carbon frames, both times it was the seat stay and was because I put a rear wheel down a rabbit hole, and the other time was dropping off a rock. Frame manufacturer replaced both times, but that was enough for me, seeing nasty sharp stabbing weapons an inch from my nether regions was enough to put me off.
Pipe cutter + carbon bar = No.
#AskGMBNTech hey guys, I was wondering if you guys can explain a creaking coming from my bike. It appears to be from the fork area and I believe it is the Rockshox boxxer. If it is possible for a boxxer to creak is there anyway to fix it? Thanks guys
Titanium is way to go. They're charging carbon with titanium price anyway.
The reality is carbon cant last long like also weaker than alloy and al steel it can only save weight little bit
That is just not true. Plenty of vids on UA-cam testing carbon v steel or aluminium. They are all built to a spec.
@@rupedogsome parts likea handlebar yes but frame not. In the wet condition carbon being soft and weak they cant last long like steel my grandpa's 1960's steel bike in my carage rideable
@@zixon5359 so how do you explain sailplanes that have been running GFRP since the late 60s, and CFRP since the early 80s. Most of those airframes are still flying today - 40+ years later with upwards of 10,000hrs flight time on them. Then you've got the modern airliners like the B787 that is all entirely composite structures looking at 100K hours or more pretty easily. All these structures deal with massive temperature extremes, icing, wet weather, pressurisation cycles etc. Steel isn't used as primary structures in any of these for good reasons.
They last until they hit a small rock and crack and then you try and sell them to some poor schmuck.
#askgmbntech what bike should I get I have a really old hard tail that’s not meant to be a mountain bike and I’m looking to get a hard tail my budget is 2500 Canadian dollars
#AskGMBNTech do you think you could tell me the list of components in the commencal mx build please
So a Chinese made carbon frame is ok to have as a pub bike. Good to know, lol.
Most carbon frames are made in China, even the brand ones. While Taiwan has its automated Aluminium frame production lines China makes most carbon stuff
@@simonm1447 And according to the expert in the video they make great pub bikes.
Cutting carbon bars. Any bars. A DeWalt 12 inch miter saw! 😂 Works MINT! 😆
Well the carbon frame of my brother lasted 3full weeks
Until it takes its first big jump
if carbon is better then why put alluminum thread in BB,pibot and in dropouts?
why not use carbon too?🙄
Aluminum can take way more of a beating than carbon. This guy is a sell out!
Aluminum and steel or any other metal lasts forever, unlike carbon it has an "expiration date"
Alu doesn't last forever. Not every steel either.
@@feedbackzaloop But at least more than carbon for sure
@@gabrieljordan9977 not for sure... One is more time dependant, another is dominantly funcion of loading. So there are plenty of cases when carbon outlasts alu and steel, and definetely there is a time when nothing survives🤷♂
@@feedbackzaloop Well its true that sometimes none of them survives certain crashes but I still feel like carbon is more delicate than aluminum or steel. Aluminum or steel over carbon for me.
@@gabrieljordan9977 oh, in terms of impacts carbon is definitely tougher. Drops that crack carbon bikes would snap aluminum in half.