This video makes a big assumption: That players in a 1/2 game are even /aware/ of what their position is. Certainly some are, but in my limited experience I'd say half of players at small stakes wouldn't even know what you were talking about if you said "under the gun" or "cutoff" - or maybe they'd know but not have any idea why it matters.
Man that is so right... even in 3/5 I see all the time, ppl who are just oblivious to the strategy of the game. I always punish the early limpers with hands I am going to play, I only fold junk or raise. You usually thin the field significantly and get most of the garbage out. Head into the flop with maybe 1-2 callers from early position.
I actually ran into somebody who limped AA from the CO at 2/5 after everyone folded to him. I was BB and had 7 3 off, after I check folded the flop he showed saying why didn't anyone raise. SMH!!!
Find it pretty interesting that a lot of this can be applied to free poker games with virtual money. That means people who play 1/2 games are playing like as if it's not their money they are playing with lol
Re implied odds 10:1/20:1... If I get it correctly it's the same as so called "Call 20" when you call only if you and the opponent has at least 20 times the amount of money you need for a call. With the difference that your video, and also in your other videos, you've mentioned that for pocket pairs you believe it should be rather "Call 10", because 20 is just too conservative/tight or however it should be named. Is that correct? So basically you're saying I should try to stick to "Call 20" for AXs and suited connectors, right? But I still should be rather careful? Great video BTW.
Villains habitually limping first to act is my new "WTF are they doing there?" spot to study, especially in $10 6max SnGs or $5 or smaller MTTs (Stars PA). Unsurprisingly I'm seeing small pairs and marginal Ax (x < 10) a lot - hands villains know might be good enough to play but aren't sure how to play them. I'm actually writing the hands down (pen and paper) every time I see that shown down in my games and will be using that to build that opponent range profile.
Jonathan... I invite you to Dallas to play 1,2 and 2,5 and then make videos cuz they are way different players then what it would seem your idea of the low stakes players are.
I'm confused - when I hear "pot-sized bet", I assume that means betting roughly the amount that is already in the pot. Jonathan defined "pot-sized" in the video (around 20:30) as 3x the previous bet, plus "additional money". Is that the standard definition of pot-sized? Google seems to indicate that my understanding is the standard one - what gives?
It's the same thing. A pot sized raise includes your call. His 3x formula is just an easier way to figure it. In his example, there is 7+7+7+2+1 (24) in the pot. So raising pot is your $7 call plus the (now) pot of 31, so $38 total.
This video is gold! :-) How about if you yourself raise with suited connectors and get 3-bet, do you still take the amount you have to call to deduce whether you are getting the right odds? E.g. I raise to $7 in a $1/2 game and get 3-bet to $25 and it folds around to me, I have 78s and have to call $18 more when his stack is $200 deep. I assume I take $200/18 to get 11.11... so I do not have enough implied odds to call, correct?
If you are on the button with trash (let's say 7-2o), but you have 5 people limp in front of you, it should be correct to call because 72o is only a 5-1 dog against AA, so you are getting the correct odds on your call. If you are going to be checking/folding anything below 2 pair and raising trips or better, you should show a profit with this in the long run. You are going to stack TT+ a good percentage of the time. I always limp behind limpers with just about any non-premium hand because I think that I can use my position to exploit their tendency to call with marginal hands.
That is not correct. Although 72o is a 5-1 dog against AA, you must include the 4 other ranges involved. When you do that, you won't have anywhere near the correct pot odds, so you should fold.
@@PokerCoaching If it's only a 5-1 dog against the best possible pre-flop hand, it can only be the same or better against other holdings, except 77 and 22 (unlikely, but possible). In the vast majority of cases, you are getting the correct odds on the call, if you expect to check/fold most flops. It's not a play to make all the time, but limpers do provide good odds, even on trash hands, plus, acting last provides additional ways to win some pots, especially if everyone is limping trash trying to make kings and threes.
@@kylelooper2156 I think it would be helpful if you ran it in an equity calculator. Your equity is lower against 4 ranges than just one. You're correct that limpers provide great pot odds, but if there are 4 limpers, you should fold your junky hands on the button.
@@PokerCoaching I understand what you're saying, and I agree that facing multiple players lowers your equity. Facing multiple players lowers the equity of every player in the hand. This is why you don't really want to be limping with AA. However, I don't fold my button in unraised pots lightly with any hand. Most players who limp preflop will also be kind enough to tell you when they hit, and will even describe the level at which they hit. A player who bets out on an 8-high flop generally has an 8. When he checks the Jack on the turn, you can cap his range at TT with 80% confidence. These players are rarely tricky. They play their own hands, and they would much rather make a bad call than to face the prospect of folding the winning hand, however weak it may be. Limping in late position often gives you the ability to draw cheaply to trips or unlikely two-pairs. It gives you the ability to represent scare cards sometimes (although you should expect to get a lot of calls; sinking a few chips into a river bluff with 72o that you fully expect to get called can be unbelievably profitable later when you hit a 1-card straight or flush).
@@kylelooper2156 A simple thought experiment - if I'm heads-up, how often am I good with 7-2o vs. AA? 1/6. Let's imagine now we're joined at the table by 100,000 other players, all with junky random hands (assume there are enough cards to go around). Now how often am I good? Almost never.
Is Poker Coaching just one price you pay off monthly or is the cost just for monthly access and you can quit after 3 months? If you quit after 3 months are you still liable for some unpaid balance?
Maybe there’s a range element to consider? Just like how someone who limps their weak hands is signalling a weaker hand than their betting range, someone who pushes harder on exactly AA is signalling something specific. If you 5-bet if and only if you have it then that’s something people could theoretically spot and avoid, meaning it would cost you equity. On the other hand, against a table of calling stations you might get paid off, but only if 1) they don’t actually hit their draws, and 2) they’re playing bad, in which case you should be able to get edges elsewhere anyway through good play!
All these videos are great, but for me it still has mostly to do with luck.. I can do everything I am supposed to do but I will still lose money, or barely break even because regardless of what I have pre flop, AA AK KK AK it nevers matters because the flop crushes me 99% of the time. Yes I'm THAT guy, If I have AK the flop will be 10/7/2 colors will be opposite what ever I am holding. All you can do after the flop is fold to a big bet or try to bet and act strong and get called and lose. I am that guy who raises with AA then gets re raised then calls and loses to two pair or a str8, all these videos are great but if you just have bad luck in general it honestly doesnt matter how good your skill is. You can do everything exactly like you are supposed to and still lose.
That is true. That is why putting in tons of volume is key. If you get it in good with AA four times, there will be runs when you lose all 4 times. When you run the same spot over 4000 times, you will make money.
I will pass down some words of wisdom. if you got it in good and lost the hand, you should be happy. if you made a mistake and lost the hand, you should be mad at yourself. Trust me, you are not the unluckiest guy in the world. You might have some leaks that you are unaware of. Deploy a solid GTO strat and put some volume. You will miss some value but you will lower the variance.
you are missing the point. that's not your main problem. your problem is getting three bet with the weak part of your limping range and then either playing big pots out of position or getting blown off of your hand. limping allows you to see the flop for cheap with a balanced range if you know where to pick your spots to limp. if you're not getting three bet it can be profitable from early to mid position. and it allows you to get really tricky if you can implement a limp 4 bet or limp all in strat particularly late in tournaments. i will, depending on the table, limp suited connecters or 1 gappers, small pairs, or premium hands like queens plus a small percentage of the time. it definitely works if you're not an honest man and limping with rags or trapping with a big hand that might as well be face up. if i get to showdown with limped aces it will throw off my opponent for the rest of the game, where i will almost always raise with my premium hands and most of the hands that i limp, however infrequent, will not be aces.
If limpers aren't common in high buy-in tournament, then why focus on them too much? If you see them, just value bet. You shouldn't need sophisticated strategies to crush people who do rather dumb things... like me.
@@PokerCoaching i dont mind it at all. I just value value. Fold to 90% 3 bets since its super rare. I do however 3 bet alot and work great in position.
There is no cure to this. They are like cancer. In small stakes MTTs you can have AK in pos, and with 4 limpers. Tried to isolate with x10BBS 3bet. Everyone called behind me... and you know the story.
Especially cool point about how it's never mandatory to play garbage hands vs players who won't let go of middle pair - thanks!
This video makes a big assumption: That players in a 1/2 game are even /aware/ of what their position is. Certainly some are, but in my limited experience I'd say half of players at small stakes wouldn't even know what you were talking about if you said "under the gun" or "cutoff" - or maybe they'd know but not have any idea why it matters.
Man that is so right... even in 3/5 I see all the time, ppl who are just oblivious to the strategy of the game. I always punish the early limpers with hands I am going to play, I only fold junk or raise. You usually thin the field significantly and get most of the garbage out. Head into the flop with maybe 1-2 callers from early position.
I actually ran into somebody who limped AA from the CO at 2/5 after everyone folded to him. I was BB and had 7 3 off, after I check folded the flop he showed saying why didn't anyone raise. SMH!!!
I find they limp strong hands in CO BTN because they watched everyone fold and got scared that nobody had anything strong enough to call lol
This video is great this is what you see at the Poker Table 75% of the time especially at the stakes a majority of your watchers should be playing
Great video.
Very Good video! , thanks , Brian
Great video, Jonathan.
Find it pretty interesting that a lot of this can be applied to free poker games with virtual money. That means people who play 1/2 games are playing like as if it's not their money they are playing with lol
Re implied odds 10:1/20:1... If I get it correctly it's the same as so called "Call 20" when you call only if you and the opponent has at least 20 times the amount of money you need for a call. With the difference that your video, and also in your other videos, you've mentioned that for pocket pairs you believe it should be rather "Call 10", because 20 is just too conservative/tight or however it should be named. Is that correct? So basically you're saying I should try to stick to "Call 20" for AXs and suited connectors, right? But I still should be rather careful? Great video BTW.
Villains habitually limping first to act is my new "WTF are they doing there?" spot to study, especially in $10 6max SnGs or $5 or smaller MTTs (Stars PA). Unsurprisingly I'm seeing small pairs and marginal Ax (x < 10) a lot - hands villains know might be good enough to play but aren't sure how to play them.
I'm actually writing the hands down (pen and paper) every time I see that shown down in my games and will be using that to build that opponent range profile.
I would consider A9 stronger esp considered to 8 7 6 or 5-
Jonathan... I invite you to Dallas to play 1,2 and 2,5 and then make videos cuz they are way different players then what it would seem your idea of the low stakes players are.
I'm confused - when I hear "pot-sized bet", I assume that means betting roughly the amount that is already in the pot.
Jonathan defined "pot-sized" in the video (around 20:30) as 3x the previous bet, plus "additional money". Is that the standard definition of pot-sized? Google seems to indicate that my understanding is the standard one - what gives?
you are correct
It's the same thing. A pot sized raise includes your call. His 3x formula is just an easier way to figure it. In his example, there is 7+7+7+2+1 (24) in the pot. So raising pot is your $7 call plus the (now) pot of 31, so $38 total.
This video is gold! :-) How about if you yourself raise with suited connectors and get 3-bet, do you still take the amount you have to call to deduce whether you are getting the right odds? E.g. I raise to $7 in a $1/2 game and get 3-bet to $25 and it folds around to me, I have 78s and have to call $18 more when his stack is $200 deep. I assume I take $200/18 to get 11.11... so I do not have enough implied odds to call, correct?
Can you please make a playlist of all 6 of these lessons.
jonathanlittlepoker.com/combatinglimpers/
If you are on the button with trash (let's say 7-2o), but you have 5 people limp in front of you, it should be correct to call because 72o is only a 5-1 dog against AA, so you are getting the correct odds on your call. If you are going to be checking/folding anything below 2 pair and raising trips or better, you should show a profit with this in the long run. You are going to stack TT+ a good percentage of the time. I always limp behind limpers with just about any non-premium hand because I think that I can use my position to exploit their tendency to call with marginal hands.
That is not correct. Although 72o is a 5-1 dog against AA, you must include the 4 other ranges involved. When you do that, you won't have anywhere near the correct pot odds, so you should fold.
@@PokerCoaching If it's only a 5-1 dog against the best possible pre-flop hand, it can only be the same or better against other holdings, except 77 and 22 (unlikely, but possible). In the vast majority of cases, you are getting the correct odds on the call, if you expect to check/fold most flops. It's not a play to make all the time, but limpers do provide good odds, even on trash hands, plus, acting last provides additional ways to win some pots, especially if everyone is limping trash trying to make kings and threes.
@@kylelooper2156 I think it would be helpful if you ran it in an equity calculator. Your equity is lower against 4 ranges than just one. You're correct that limpers provide great pot odds, but if there are 4 limpers, you should fold your junky hands on the button.
@@PokerCoaching I understand what you're saying, and I agree that facing multiple players lowers your equity. Facing multiple players lowers the equity of every player in the hand. This is why you don't really want to be limping with AA.
However, I don't fold my button in unraised pots lightly with any hand. Most players who limp preflop will also be kind enough to tell you when they hit, and will even describe the level at which they hit. A player who bets out on an 8-high flop generally has an 8. When he checks the Jack on the turn, you can cap his range at TT with 80% confidence. These players are rarely tricky. They play their own hands, and they would much rather make a bad call than to face the prospect of folding the winning hand, however weak it may be.
Limping in late position often gives you the ability to draw cheaply to trips or unlikely two-pairs. It gives you the ability to represent scare cards sometimes (although you should expect to get a lot of calls; sinking a few chips into a river bluff with 72o that you fully expect to get called can be unbelievably profitable later when you hit a 1-card straight or flush).
@@kylelooper2156
A simple thought experiment - if I'm heads-up, how often am I good with 7-2o vs. AA? 1/6. Let's imagine now we're joined at the table by 100,000 other players, all with junky random hands (assume there are enough cards to go around). Now how often am I good? Almost never.
I was wondering if I join the pokercoaching.com member can I get the access to this course.
great video
Is Poker Coaching just one price you pay off monthly or is the cost just for monthly access and you can quit after 3 months? If you quit after 3 months are you still liable for some unpaid balance?
It is month to month subscription. If you would like to end your subscription after 3 months, you will just cancel and not owe anything.
Did he really say not to make a big bet pre flop with AA? Gotta disagree strongly with that
Maybe there’s a range element to consider? Just like how someone who limps their weak hands is signalling a weaker hand than their betting range, someone who pushes harder on exactly AA is signalling something specific. If you 5-bet if and only if you have it then that’s something people could theoretically spot and avoid, meaning it would cost you equity. On the other hand, against a table of calling stations you might get paid off, but only if 1) they don’t actually hit their draws, and 2) they’re playing bad, in which case you should be able to get edges elsewhere anyway through good play!
The rake is killer at 1-2nl. Scooping dead money on the flop is good but marginal +ev
All these videos are great, but for me it still has mostly to do with luck.. I can do everything I am supposed to do but I will still lose money, or barely break even because regardless of what I have pre flop, AA AK KK AK it nevers matters because the flop crushes me 99% of the time. Yes I'm THAT guy, If I have AK the flop will be 10/7/2 colors will be opposite what ever I am holding. All you can do after the flop is fold to a big bet or try to bet and act strong and get called and lose. I am that guy who raises with AA then gets re raised then calls and loses to two pair or a str8, all these videos are great but if you just have bad luck in general it honestly doesnt matter how good your skill is. You can do everything exactly like you are supposed to and still lose.
That is true. That is why putting in tons of volume is key. If you get it in good with AA four times, there will be runs when you lose all 4 times. When you run the same spot over 4000 times, you will make money.
I will pass down some words of wisdom. if you got it in good and lost the hand, you should be happy. if you made a mistake and lost the hand, you should be mad at yourself.
Trust me, you are not the unluckiest guy in the world. You might have some leaks that you are unaware of. Deploy a solid GTO strat and put some volume. You will miss some value but you will lower the variance.
yea,but your broke.@@PokerCoaching
I don't understand why anyone would limp. It allows the big blind to see the flop without having to pay any more
you are missing the point. that's not your main problem. your problem is getting three bet with the weak part of your limping range and then either playing big pots out of position or getting blown off of your hand. limping allows you to see the flop for cheap with a balanced range if you know where to pick your spots to limp. if you're not getting three bet it can be profitable from early to mid position. and it allows you to get really tricky if you can implement a limp 4 bet or limp all in strat particularly late in tournaments. i will, depending on the table, limp suited connecters or 1 gappers, small pairs, or premium hands like queens plus a small percentage of the time. it definitely works if you're not an honest man and limping with rags or trapping with a big hand that might as well be face up. if i get to showdown with limped aces it will throw off my opponent for the rest of the game, where i will almost always raise with my premium hands and most of the hands that i limp, however infrequent, will not be aces.
Super smart.
If limpers aren't common in high buy-in tournament, then why focus on them too much? If you see them, just value bet. You shouldn't need sophisticated strategies to crush people who do rather dumb things... like me.
Raise 9 as an open i would get 5 callers on average. 12= 3. 15=1.5.
Is that good or bad?
@@PokerCoaching i dont mind it at all. I just value value. Fold to 90% 3 bets since its super rare. I do however 3 bet alot and work great in position.
There is no cure to this. They are like cancer. In small stakes MTTs you can have AK in pos, and with 4 limpers. Tried to isolate with x10BBS 3bet. Everyone called behind me... and you know the story.
One of them hit a full house on the turn with 83 off suit?
Lose to 64off who called cbet lol or K4off
Limping is pimping
Is part 2 of 6 up yet?
jonathanlittlepoker.com/combatinglimpers/