I noticed after previewing this video that, unless you are watching at fairly high resolution and you are positioned close to the screen, you may not be able to see the difference between a photograph that I have judged to be sharp versus one that I have judged to be soft. That’s how much UA-cam takes away from a sharp image. They all look soft on UA-cam!
I feel your pain. Facebook kills them too. Yea, I still get some misses too, but I take a lot of photos, and unless it's just terrible conditions (very low light) I almost always get some sharp shots to choose from 🙂👍
G'day Phil, thanks for the shout out and doing this video, your performance is very interesting and is great to show how well the R7 performed in your testing. I am suspecting there is an issue with my R7 as I get actual focus shifting between frames, so not that it is not tack sharp but an actual shift in the focal plane. I totally agree that some softness from the subject moving or you moving is normal and I get that on the R3, Z9 etc. The issue I am having is when I shoot a burst with my R7 it goes from sharp to soft instantly between shots, and when I check the focus point it has not moved. At the moment it seems I cannot get a burst of sharp shots like you have shown in this video with my R7, yet I can with the R5, R3. I must admit the problem is worse in low light or not direct sunlight which does challenge the AF a little more. Your video highlights the importance of light and distance to subject helping a lot with IQ. I am just noticing a big difference between the R7 and my other Canon bodies which is very frustrating. Your video shows me how the camera should be performing so it is hard to know exactly what my issue is. I will send my R7 into Canon to check and will update with the findings as it should be performing like yours. Thanks again, Cheers, Duade
I got the same issue of AF shifting with the R7 at times. That is not the case with my R5. Sometimes it can help to overexpose a bit more, just to help the AF in better finding the subject. Another strange glitch happening with the R7 is that it will continue shooting out of its own; this happens when I use backbutton AF, then press the shutter and release the backbutton AF before releasing the shutter. It will keep firing away (at least in drive modes H/H+) another 5-10 images. Not the biggest issue as you won't lose any shots, but a bit annoying as I sometimes choose to disengage AF to prevent focus shifting. Anyone got the same problem?
Duade, my experience is precisely the same as yours -- and with TWO R7's. A work colleague has the same issue with his R7. A stream of six images, from the SAME SHUTTER PRESS, may have four images out of spec! The images seem to cycle in and out. But keep in mind, we aren't shooting birds point blank from a hide. We're shooting in the wild, at a distance.
I don't think it's your camera, Duade. Too many of us are seeing the exact same thing you are when shooting in similar conditions. If you put your camera at 300mm on a tripod and shoot your Gary Glar at half frame or larger, it'll be fine--just like Phil's sequences. But that's not typical wild shooting conditions. When you get out of this highly controlled situation, the focal plane isn't where the focal point says it is, more often than not.
Hi, I use the R7 and the R5 for Wildlife Photography. And my sister owns the R6 Mark II. We can not tell that any of these 3 Cameras deliveres less sharp Images than the other. I totally agree that you simply can not expect every single photo of a series to be 100% sharp.
The R7 will behave erratically in conditions where the light is poor or the birds are not as close as those shown in your video. I have found focus to vary considerably in the case of a lark or wader in grass. The camera may indicate it has locked on to the eye but may focus in front or behind the bird. Generally, there are few problems with a bird close and in clear view but as you have found there are some fails. On the whole the R7 performs very well for the price.
THIS is precisely what I experience as well. Although, I'm having some issues with focus in all but good light. Basically, if there's sunlight, autofocus works incredibly well. If it's in the shade, not so much. Makes me think the camera is far more reliant on contrast to achieve focus versus the R5/R6II/R3.
I think Duade shoots longer distances than the back porch, so maybe that's where it falls down a bit. You should do another video on its success rate out in the field by one of your wetlands etc.
Similar thoughts. It is easier for an already great AF system to lock on focus more consistently for closer subjects than distant ones. And it is not only Duade who shared that experience. Great video though!
I’ve watched both videos and I’m experiencing the same problem as Duade. I would be very happy with the results you are getting! In a burst that long it will almost always lose focus entirely. Not barely off like yours, rather several inches of focal plane or something far in the background. Huge shifts. I will also say I’m usually in lower light situations. That may be the key.
Have a look if there are repeating patterns in the vicinity of where you want to focus. These were always the source for problems in phase detect autofocus, especially when noise comes into play and you are underexposing. I found that my R7 focuses more reliably when enabling the OVF simulation because then the autofocus has better image quality to work with.
Thanks for this review. I’ve listened to everything I could about the R7 and the common thread is focus issues , shutter shock in ms mode causing blurred photos and issues with distortion in ms mode. I’m glad you did this video to show what one can expect. Makes my buying decision easier.
Thanks for this lengthy demonstration, I was concerned about eventually getting an RF Telephoto with the R7 after hearing about these autofocus woes but it hardly seems a problem here! I've noticed it struggle to focus on my 100-400 L ii in low light or extreme distance situation but increasing the exposure solves it. Coming from a 40D the R7 may as well be a piece of alien tech. Btw, the House Finch around 7:30 looks like it could have Mycoplasmal conjunctivitis. If you have a feeder it's been visiting it could be due for a cleaning!
I've noticed on a male house finch near my house ... i freaked out when i was on the 500mm and saw the poor bird's right eye almost closed shut and puffy and his left eye with a swollen pink tissue around the eye. Thank you for the heads up. Poor thang.
Another great video, thanks. I also saw Duade Paton's video, and I was surprised because I have never really seen the problem he described (loss of AF lock across a burst) with my R7/ RF 100-500. I wondered whether this was a consequence of his faster frame rates (I use low speed continuous, as you recommended in your last video), low light (when the AF struggles more), and servo AF (after all, it's designed to re-acquire focus with every shot in a burst). I imagine this could be aggravated if the viewfinder AF box is much larger than the subject. In any case, I am happy that not everyone is affected. You are quite right about the difference between 'soft' and 'sharp' images being lost by UA-cam.
In Duade’s video he shows the point where the focus point ( you can see them in the R7 if you want ) is and the problem he has ( and me and others ) is the fact that in some pictures the focus point is straight on the eye but the picture was completely out of focus. And because you didn't showed the red square of the focus point we will never know where you focussed. Coming from a 7D II i am very happy with my R7, i was just wondering why a few photo's from me where completely out of focus while my red square was on the eye. And after seeing Duade’s item i knew i wasn't the only one who has that problem every now and then. But it happens very rare.
You are right, I should have used a viewer that showed the focus point. I must mention that just because the focus point is at a location doesn’t mean the lens is actually focused there. It may be attempting to get there. It’s also possible that what was there has moved since focus locked there. Thank you.
@@PhilThach No, it happens on the same object which hardly moves, it happens randomly. Haven't experienced it lately but that has to do because i do mostly macro without fast shutter speed at the moment. Anyway, it's no deal breaker because the R7 is a huge step forwards compared with the D7II.
I saw Duade’s video and thought of you so it’s good that you have done a comparison check. A huge amount of keepers. I always take lots of pictures of a single Bird because you get that tac sharp shot as well as the pose you want. If you started posting soft images I don’t think your subscribers would be too impressed. I expect good pictures from you and you deliver.
Thanks for sharing! It's nice to see all the shots. I agree that the hit rate is awesome! It amazes me what people find to complain about. I'm still irritated that someone questioned your integrity. Who doesn't show the very best photo? Keep up the great videos.
Well done Phill This needed doing, I have the RF 100-400 and on strings of 15 photos elec. first Curtain, I get usually 10-11 which are ok and just a couple which are not in focus some of those are motion Blur. Put it this way I don't want 11 photos of the same bird in the same position I want 1 edited final result and having 11 good ones to chose from gives me plenty of scope.
Thanks for sharing the video Phil. Someone questioned your integrity for only showing good photos? 😂 wow! End of the day it’s the photographer who takes the shot and not the camera. A good photographer will work out a cameras strengths and weaknesses and use it accordingly. Enjoy your R7 Phil and thank you for sharing your “only in focus” photos will us all 👍🙏
Great and fair video! Thanks a lot for this demonstration. I am a bit surprised that people really always expect perfect cameras, perfect lenses and finally perfect shots in every situation, as we know that can't be realistic. Perhaps you should better point out that a long(er) distance shot is of course different from a short distance shot since the camera struggles to detect animals in a complex surrounding and of course there is often no eye to be identified as such. And last but not least we have to consider the price with respect to a Canon R5 or Canon R3. All in all I would like to confirm that the R7 is a very good APS-C camera, if we take into account the limits that always exist. It is photographer's task to make the best. Many greetings Robert (Frankfurt, Germany)
I encountered the same problem as Duade. Maybe I was shooting too fast. Maybe thus it's not comparable. Also as others said it happened to me at maximum focus length and objects sometimes not sitting still on a branch. To nail this down I used DPP 4 which shows where the camera shows the focus area. One other thing which you guys didn't mention: it seems mandatory for 500mm to set "lens drive when af impossible" on the R7 otherwise it just doesn't want to focus at all. This is a showstopper for not planned shots. Don't get why canon does this. R7 firmware is 1.3.1, lens was 1.1 IIRC.
I've been having focus problems with my R7 recently. After looking for solutions I see a few people saying Canon has done warranty replacement of some components to fix it.
Terrific video. I have R7 and Sigma 150 600 C. 40% of my shots are soft and I do all bird photography handheld. There are so many variables other than the camera body itself. Lighting, distance, atmospheric distortion, camera shake, motion blur etc. And obviously the fact that I am using a 3rd party lens. Never had that issue with Sony A6400 paired with Sigma EF 150 600 and MC11 adapter. I had rented RF 100 500 for a week and I did experience issues similar to what Duade described. You may be one of the lucky ones who got a good R7 copy with no issues.
Great video and your results i would take in a minute, but its not what Duade and I are seeing. It can only be you have a better version of the R7 or your settings. at 9:43 where the bird barely moves and you do a full buffer, I would have 30% or so soft. This is similiar to what Duade showed. I would be VERY interested in your AF settings. Maybe a future video : ). Maybe that is the difference.
@@1610russell that is true, however if only 7 of 10 are in focus when it is not moving at all, what happens when your tracking and that perfect shot is the one that is not in focus. I never had the problem with my 7d2 but i do now with my R7.. so i was hoping since watching Phil's video he has a much better result it might just be a setting.
I only watched portions of this video so what I am mentioning may miss the target. Tony Northrup and Chelsea did a video or two quite a while ago in which they discussed what manufactures say and reality. What Tony and Chelsea found was they weren't getting a decent "hit" rate with autofocus with cameras proclaimed to have high frames per second. They did a quick survey of their extended photographer friends to see what hit rate these folks were getting with their super duper high frame per second cameras. The answer was low hit rates. They concluded that manufactures were putting out cameras with alleged high frame rates but the camera's focusing couldn't keep up. This observation crossed many brands.
I'm with you Phil, I love Duade work too, but I have the same setup as you and have had none of the issues that Duade has had, if you watch his video it looks like his camera is bouncing on and off focus, which to me looks like it maybe a fault of that particular camera. Like I said mine has been fine. keep up the good work
Great video Phil! Could you please share your R7 back button AF settings in another video. The amazing R7 has so many AF settings - many are describing its symptoms but not comparing AF base settings - which can have dramatic results. I would love to see the settings that produced your consistent results.
I agree completely. The hit rate blows my mind most of the time. Occasionally I wonder why it isn't locking on but that's usually in less than ideal conditions....or me.
Hi, Phil I'm new to the R10, and when I look through the viewfinder at a stationary subject and utilize back button focusing, ripping off a few continuous shots, the focus point (set at "one point") keeps wandering about as connected or singular red squares - what the heck is happening? BTW, camera is handheld, but taking the same picture in manual mode is perfect, while AF photos are just a bit blurry. Many thanks for your anticipated response.
Some people will say I am not taking advantage of all the R7 can do but I don’t shoot with tracking on normally. I set up my camera a lot like Scott from Wild Alaska. I have a button set to eye focus and one to spot. Once I have focus I only press the desired button again if the bird/animal or I move. Why let the camera get confused about a stationary subject? The bird is in flight I hold the eye focus back button. My keeper rate is over 90% which means I have too many pictures and it causes me a lot of work to determine which ones to process. I use this method on my R5 as well. The keeper rate is nearly identical. Like you said, the R7 is $1499.
I have an R7 that freezes up in auto focus. Nothing works. This happens random 😂focal point doesn’t move and the focal point always goes to the right corner sometimes 10 seconds before auto focus decides to locate a subject. Has this happened to you?
I recently got the canon R7 and use the rf 100-400mm. This is my first camera I’ve ever used and have only had for a month. I’m already nailing shots of small birds and wildlife. I say out of every 10 shots I take, around 3 are useable
Thanks so much for sharing another wonderful video like always Phil, I learn to live with the R7 auto focus issues but I am getting many keepers so for me it's not a problem at all, I love my R7 🐦👍🤗
Great review of the R7 autofocus system Phil! Any of the modern autofocus systems on all major brands are light years ahead of what I used to be able to capture on manual focus cameras years ago. And using film? Talk about photography, especially of wildlife, birds, etc. being expensive! Still not perfect but what else technology wise is!🤔
I have the same combination as you Phil and I also have an R5. I’ve just about given up using the R7 because the autofocus is so unreliable. I have sufficient experience to know how to take sharply focused photographs of birds. However, my results are just about the opposite of yours. I get occasional sharp shots and hundreds of “nearly sharp” shots. Often, the autofocus point is on the bird’s eye, which you can see on the rear screen, but the actual focus is in a slightly different plane. It drives me nuts. I question whether all R7s are equal!??
My R7 has been doing well with the 100-500mm and 800mm. I use fv mode and mainly shoot 1/250 to 1/500, keep the lens wide open, and adjust the ISO manually watching the histogram. I did notice right off the bat the autofocus is sensitive to the settings and if you are too dark it will flounder around a little. I shoot 1st curtain shutter. I did have a problem early on where focus would try for a short moment and then it would just quit trying to focus but there was an option in the menu to force the lens to hunt for focus and once that was turned on then everything smoothed out.
question Phil - I'm wondering what is your thought process as to shoot such lower SS? - is it because of tripod, feed location? - I rarely shoot below 800 for anything. but I'm pretty new to the game
I have a neurologic tremor, and I find that I need faster shutter speeds even with image stabilization. For this reason, I try to keep my shutter speed at or above 1/640 at full zoom (500 mm with my RF 100-500) or the the "1/focal length rule" more generally. This despite lens stabilization that works very well with the R7 IBIS. Clearly, Phil has a steadier hand than me :)
@@wellingtoncrescent2480 I don't have any tremors, that I know of, but even locked down on a tripod, even using a remote to fire the shutter (IBIS off or on), I tend to get more sharp images of a stationary subject (500mm or 500+1.4) with a shutter speed above 1/500, and even more above 1/1000. I don't know why. Many of the shots are usable, they just aren't tack sharp coming out of the camera. I have friends shooting the same subject hand held at much lower speeds without issue (that they are willing to tell me about). As a result I strive for at least those speeds.
@@alansach8437 It doesn't really fit with your description, but have you tried the electronic shutter? Given the light weight of the R7, it is more susceptible to shutter shock than heavier full-frame bodies. I find that my images are definitely sharper with the electronic vs mechanical shutter, and I don't find the rolling shutter to be too limiting. That said, it may just be that Phil is eerily steady :). As sensor resolution increases, many commentators are finding that the usual "1 over focal length" rule is no longer be enough to mitigate camera shake, even with image stabilization.
I like to keep my ISO as low as possible even if it means I loose some shots because of motion blur. I know there are programs that can get rid of noise and I use them but I like to start with as little noise as possible. The thing that helps me use slow shutter speed the most if the electronic shutter.
I have an R7 that freezes up in auto focus. Nothing works. This happens random focal point doesn’t move and the focal point always goes to the right corner sometimes 10 seconds before auto focus decides to locate a subject. Has this happened to you?
Hello Phil, thanks for your videos. I have a R7 and have the same problem, that is the way the camera works AF is not that great, but still it's a good camera. All photographers, we pick the best photos, anybody knows that 😅.
Whew! I thought 1/15 was too slow in what I shoot so I do not have many pictures to go through. 😏 Then Matt Irwin shoed one 1/6 of the reflection of water with the building lights which is fantastic. His video dealt with the Nikkor 14-30mm F/4 S lens.
What was interesting about Duade's video was that he showed shots where the focus point was on the eye, but the focus jumped to the background. I have never had that happen with my R7 that I've noticed so maybe he does just have a bad copy of the camera.
Don’t worry about those people questioning your integrity Phil. Not worth it. Seriously people should understand that even the Bird Whisperer has to shout sometimes. 😊
I think Duade's comment was also that he is not sure if he has some issue with his copy of the R7. And one thibg he does is he shot the sqme higb speeed shot on hia toy bird on a fixed and found AF not staying on the bird eye all fhe time. Same with Brent Hall. Glad to see the large numver of images that are sharp and makes my second camera decision easy! Thabks Phil.
No, I use full electronic shutter, usually, including in all the shots in this video. Sometimes for birds in flight I will use mechanical or electronic first curtain, but all of these shots and most of my shots are full electronic shutter.
Great shots Phil! Possible user error for some people new to photography, especially bird photography! The R7 is a complex camera and I think some users expect too much. Even the pros don’t nail every shot! Always the possibility that some cameras are faulty though.
I disagree, we expect much because this is meant to be a successor to the 7D Mark II with a similar AF system to the R3, but instead is more on the level of the 80D/90D. I would go as far as say the 7D is overpriced for what it is and should have been about the same price as a 90D at launch.
Duade is one of the key bird photographers in my book. So highly doubt user error. seems like maybe the body's may not be consistant and some keep focus better than others.
i have the latest firmware and the same issue, i had the 100-400mm before the 100-500 and had no issues, it's really annoying and I am not even using subject tracking just single point AF and normal tracking, I am getting a lower hit rate than with the 'cheap' lens.
I love what you and Heather do with your R7. Sure, you don't show your bad photos. My background in photography is from being a newspaper photographer and black and white film. I was a news photographer back in the 70s. The cameras we used were very very basic compared to what you have today, but we got some outstanding photos. You have some of these guys shooting the state-of-the-art cameras and lens and still complain about a few shots not tack sharp. Hand them an old Nikon F film camera and they would never make it with that aptitude. Some guy from Australia was using a R7 and had some wonderful pictures handheld. The next episode he was telling about how bad the auto focus was. I don't get it.
great video , thanks Phil . None of the cameras with bird eye tracking I've ever used produces 100% sharp frames , even when the bird sits still AF fluctuates from time to time. R5 is definitely better than R7 in this regard, but for the $1.5k price R7 does a great job IMO . I love mine !
Canon R7 , Adapter, Canon 100mm macro( non is) . Most of my butterly macros out of focus. I use ewf while shooting and I see the target out of focus and always blury. Thanks to the full time manual mode otherwise I would not have sharp images if only use AF mode only.( Camera mode: Single shot, spot metering, Lens AF ON)Any information will higly be welcomed.
@@PhilThach thanks! I've been using camera raw and I started suspecting it was Lightroom. I clicked around in my Lightroom version and came up with a similar review.
Since this video was released, Duade Paton made an inquiry to Canon to try to resolve his autofocus issues. THEIR response was posted in a video and essentially suggested that the autofocus system does not perform consistently at high frame rates. To me that is quite definitive. Now I am not sure if I missed what your frame rates are, but Duade was shooting at 30fps electronic shutter. The solution suggested by Canon was to shoot slower, however if one drops down to shoot mechanical then it sounds like a machine gun, so shooting at around 11 fps, first curtain was the best compromise he could find. The camera particularly struggled in lower contrast areas. I am a retired wildlife photographer myself, and do voluntary support on the Canon Community site. I did quite a bit of testing myself on the R7 and came to the following conclusions: - Because the APS-C sensor has a 32MP capacity, it's density if upsized to a FF one, would generate a sensor of 83MP, which no camera maker has approached, thus there must be some compromises made, and those are in terms of focus, dynamic range, and data bus performance. While the 90D (it's actual precursor) had a 32MP sensor, it did not use the sensor to do the focusing, it had its own focusing sensors and there were FAR fewer of them, so the data load was massively lower. This had two implications in the R7: a) When focusing for every image while at high speed burst, the focusing system could not keep up with the flow of data from the sensor. This resulted in the demonstrated focus/no focus cycle that Duade and I (and others) have experienced. b) If the sensor was BSI/Stacked the flow of data would have been significantly faster, although that would have added considerable cost as it would have meant upgrades to the rest of the data bus right back to the buffer and card upload speeds. That would have prevented the pixel shift phenomenon that plagues the R7 for moving subjects. As Duade and others have commented, this admission from Canon raises the question of why offer 30fps if it cannot be consistently and reliably maintained. It is notable that Sony, in producing similar spe, c'd cameras, kept their shutter speeds in the lower zone of 11-15fps. I also did a data load balancing analysis in the bus overall and came to the conclusion that there are bottlenecks in the process and buffer - which is why one can only shoot 1.2 sec of RAW images before the buffer fills and no shots can be taken until that clears. A bigger buffer and a CF-Express card would assist in that respect, but again at cost. The lens also has an impact on this. The RF 100-500L has dual Nano-USM motors attached to superior focusing circuitry, which is unique at the moment, so signals from the camera's focusing system will be more readily applied than most other lenses that do not have these features. There ARE solutions to mitigate this. Shooting in single point focus with eye tracking (I do that anyway) significantly reduces the load on the focusing system. Using 11fps will also help, but the camera will struggle in low contrast conditions relative to a much lower pixel density body because of its smaller sensors have lower dynamic range capacity. It was a disappointment to me as I had hoped for a top end APS-C camera with the model of 7 would be up to the 7D series of pro-grade APS-C bodies, but (as Canon later admitted) it is really a successor to the 90D, which would suggest it could have been called something different - like the R9 or R70. It was built for a price and at that price it provides good value, but IMHO the branding dept. made a blunder with their model number choice. I shoot instead with the FF R5 and R6 series of bodies that offer much higher keeper rates and also significantly better dynamic range - but they cost more and so do their optics. For most people a 20-24MP sensor is perfectly adequate and the sensor on the F10 would have been perfectly adequate, but folks have a pixel fixation that is not all positive. This is in line with the development of the R3 and R1 that feature 24MP BSI/Stacked sensors that pro-grade journalist and sports photographers need for their work: fast focus, better dynamic range, fast processing and high speed connectivity to upload to editors and agencies. I can shoot with the 45MP R5 in 1.6 crop mode and get the same FoV, with better focus and dynamic range, and still generate about 18MP, so that is the way I am going. My impression is that Canon is concentrating on the FF line and has less priority on the APS-C market. In part this is implied by them giving licenses to Sigma and Tamron to provide RF-S lenses (only) for their platform.
Great comment. I normally use the middle speed and electronic shutter or sometimes even the slow speed and electronic. I very rarely use the maximum 30fps speed.
Hi Trevor9934, I recently used the R7 with the EF 100-400mm L on BIF here in the Canadian Maritime (East Coast) and 1st pic is always in focus the rest is all over the place, didn't use the electronic shutter but the mechanical one. When BIF are over the water Atlantic/St. Laurence Gulf (as sometimes as I was on top of a cliff) then forget to focus on anything, not too many keepers. When birds where static (resting on the cliffs) then it wasn't too bad and had more keepers.
HI. I used to be a professional wildlife photographer, but have been retired for some years - although, really the difference is I choose my own projects and subject and don't get paid. I am fairly old-school with my setup and I shoot in mechanical shutter, usually varying between low and high speed. I shoot single point BBF, and single point BB Exposure as well. I almost always shoot hand-held. For wildlife, I shoot with eye tracking in servo mode. I think much depends on how the camera was setup. I think that the setup makes a huge difference with regards to success rates, and whoever seeks to do a scientific experiment, it needs to be clearly stated what the configuration. I engaged with Duade about his experience and my understanding is that he was shooting with a tripod, using IS and IBIS, and 30 fps electronic shutter. It appears that your configuration is significantly different to Duade's in several aspects and those could well be the reason his results differ for you. Much also depends on the lens attached. The RF lenses are obviously dedicated for the camera technologies. I found it interesting that he has complaints about the Sigma 150-600c lens pulsing in and out of focus. I have that lens plus the 60-600s version and, using my setup,with my R5, R6 and R6II cameras, have had absolutely no issues with those 3rd party lenses. It is interesting that Sigma went to the effort to publish a video stating that their EF lenses perform properly with the R-series. bodies. In the demonstration they were making, they used the R6 body, which is a 20MP FF sensor body.
Phil, a couple observations. As close as you were to the subjects, you should expect more. The R5, R6, and R6ii give you more. And shooting at f/7.1 or higher (as you always are when shooting the 100-500 at 500mm), if you're anywhere close to focus, the depth of field should keep EVERYTHING in focus! It shouldn't be possible to miss focus "slightly" with f/7 to f/11. If you're missing focus at f/8, that's a BIG miss. So . . . I don't think it's an autofocus issue. I think something else is at play. Maybe a sensor readout issue. We know it's a slow sensor with a tiny buffer. Maybe that's impacting image quality. Some of my best bird images were taken with the R7. When it hits, it's an amazing camera. But when shooting at a distance or in a complicated environment, I always made sure to take LOTS of images -- because I figured the R7 was going to mess up 2/3 of them. Very frustrating. The R5 doesn't give you that R7 crop . . . but it also doesn't let me down.
I think any camera will have some misses at great distances and or complicated environments. It’s certainly possible to miss slightly with a small aperture if you are looking for critical focus. Often at 7.1 you have the eye perfect and the tail of a small bird very out of focus. That is acceptable. But when the tail is in and the eye is out, that won’t do. And again, this is very possible on a small bird at 7.1. A large bird in flight at a distance will yield a much larger depth of field. Small bird, close enough to fill some of the frame will give you a very thin depth of field even at 7.1. That’s one reason I don’t miss my 500 f/4 that I sold.
I have the R6 and feel like it is not much better though I am using cheaper lenses (RF 100-400 and 800 f11). Another problem I suspect is the moving lens stabilizing element - it is possible it moves and either gets desynced with IBIS or the AF cannot catch up it also creates a soft image as if it is out of focus - I tried doing some handheld shots with focus locked and stabilization turned on and a few shots seem soft but not due to motion blur. I've noticed a similar softness issue on previous lenses with DSLRs without IBIS as well. As an aside I do find the RF 100-400 stabilization rather inconsistent especially with the 1.4 teleconverter where it sometimes spazzes out.
@@fylphotography9269That’s an interesting theory. I don’t have an R7, but on my Olympus camera there is a setting for whether the camera should prioritize stabilization or fps. Maybe the R7 has something similar that could be useful for testing.
I’m sharing the same experience, the keepers in this camera is higher than in my previous Sony and Nikon cameras. Is it perfect? No. But I doubt that in any other camera on that price range you can get a better score.
It is easy to be too picky, only the biggest problem with Canon mirrorless tends to be with third party lenses. I am still in two minds whether to get an R7, I use an R5 and R5, with Sigma I tends to use 7D2 and 5D4, sometimes I wonder why I went to mirrorless. My biggest gripe is that the focus point likes to hug corners or wander around, oh and when I put the camera down something touches to rear screen and changes something drastically.
Hi Phil and Heather. Hope you’re enjoying Vero Beach. Used to be a medical traveler and was put it up in a nice a condo for my 3 months’ stay. Those days are gone. Got a question re : the R7. Read a review which said the shutter slap on the R7 is severe. Would you comment on that and it’s AF focusing effects for birds ? Thanks Enjoy. 😊
I recommend using the electronic shutter for birds unless you are using fast shutter speeds. I like to use the slowest shutter speed I can get away with so I'm basically always in electronic shutter mode when photographing birds. Shutter slap is severe with the mechanical.
I think both you and Duade have made great points. With the R7, it just seems like there are random out-of-focus shots in a burst, at least with the electronic shutter, when the others are in focus. With the R5, if the camera locks onto the eye, it will likely get more in-focus shots in a burst (at least with the mechanical shutter) than the R7, at least in my experience over the last few weeks switching between these two cameras and using the RF 100-500. With the R5, when it doesn't lock on you just get most if not all of the burst out of focus, which is to be expected. The net result is having to take more individual shots with the R7 to make sure you have enough keepers, vs the R5. That's been my experience, anyway. The R5 is also better overall in challenging lighting conditions, but that's to be expected with a much bigger 45 MP sensor.
Phil, for your test shots, what mode were you shooting in? Mechanical? Electronic? 1st curtain? I wonder if that makes a difference in the autofocus issues some people have reported
Phil, I made a similar comment what I'm saying here on Duade's video a few days back. While not every image is tack sharp, I have not experienced the issues he was having. I have not doubt his experiences are real just I haven't had it. To me the metric isn't if every photo is tack sharp, it is the overall keeper rate over time. I've shot Sony, Canon and Nikon. The R7 is producing a little better keeper rate than my D500 and to be fair, the D500 and Nikkor lenses set the bar pretty high. Everything seen as a whole, the R7 and the L lenses I have (100-500, 24-105 F4 and 100mm Macro) are on par with and slightly better than the Nikon lenses. I will say the Canon 100mm Macro does lack a little something when compared to the Nikkor 105mm macro. That Nikon lens just had something special. As far as someone questioning your integrity because you share the best photos and not the bad ones? Really? I don't even know what to say about that other than don't sweat it. I don't know a single photographer who publishes their bad photos.
I think Duade's critique of the the R7 pointed out problems like rolling shutter (the leaning background rails in one of your photos might be an example of that) where you might not expect it and problems with shutter shock or vibration at slow shutter speeds when using the mechanical shutter. I recently tested an R7 with the 600mm f11 lens and was impressed. I think it would be, and probably is, a dynamite combo with the 100-500mm zoom. However, I think Canon made a mistake releasing a less refined R7 at a lower price point when you consider how much dedicated bird photographers often spend on their gear. If Canon releases an R7 Mark 2 version that addresses rolling shutter in the electronic shutter and vibration in the mechanical shutter (say for about two-grand) I think they will have created a true replacement for the greatly respected Nikon D500.
I'd gladly pay $2500 for an R7 II with an ultrafast stacked sensor. That would eliminate the rolling shutter problems and improve autofocus speed. Another feature I'd like to see but it will be a while in an APSC camera is quad-pixel autofocus. I think the R1 may be the first camera to have that feature. Time will tell.
So much criticism about the R7... When I switched from my 90D to the R7, the gain in particular on the autofocus was such that I could hardly believe it! Of course there is always better, some have fun comparing the R7 with an R5 that's good you can also compare a 100,000 dollar car with a 40,000 dollar car and ask for the same options, the same chassis, the same motor... At 1500 dollars (and even 1400 dollars at the moment) you have 4k60, C LOG 3, autofocus in 100FPS or 120 FPS, pre shooting, 30 FPS, and so many other things! For those who want to form an opinion on the quality of the autofocus and the sharpness of the image, there are enough channels on UA-cam like that of Phil Thach, Wild Alaska and many others who demonstrate on a daily basis that this camera has an excellent autofocus and above all an excellent quality/price ratio!
I feel Duade’s focusing issues are 100% operator error. It is a best practice to turn off Image Stabilization on the lens whenever you are shooting from a tripod, or a similar stable platform. Duade does not turn it off. Where are your locked AF point(s)? You should be able to display these, provided the AF system was active when the shutter was fired.
I leave my stabilization on when I'm on a tripod too, at least when shooting birds at low shutter speeds. I'm often moving the tripod based on the position of a constantly moving bird. Even perched ones constantly move so I move the camera for the best composition. Stabilization helps. I don't have software that displays the focus point though I know some is available. If I did use it the focus point might block me from being able to determine if the eye was critically sharp.
I have a question, often we are shooting alot of pics of one bird, but different angles etc. Wow to choose this best one ? Also are You using Mechanical or electronic or maybe 1st curtain shutter?
Thanks for the video. I was very surprised when I saw Duade's video. So far he has rated the R7 very positively. I shoot with a combination of the R7 and my 100-400mm telephoto zoom all the time. Not every photo is sharp, but I see that as completely normal. And that you usually only show the best photos is fine too, who wouldn't? I just don't understand some of the comments.
Hi Phil, I would expect any tuber in this field to ONLY be showing their best. Unless it's about mistakes and how to avoid them where it will be explicitly talked about and obvious. I have an R6 and the 100-500 and some times it fails but I think it's the circumstances and conditions. These sort of cameras are fantastic and my rate of keepers is way higher than in the past. I haven't missed a shot yet where I feel I can blame the camera. I enjoy both Duades content and yours. Keep them coming.
Electronic. I'm on electronic virtually every time I photograph birds. I'll use the mechanical shutter for sports and macro with flash but that's about it.
I have never thought you were doing anything wrong in only showing good pics--That is just common sense-- My question ( since I am a neophyte bird photographer) is why the low shutter speed-- Your ISO is pretty low and going to 1/500 to 1/1000 should still be workable-- Your thoughts are welcomed. Thanks
I agree, I could have gone faster without getting my ISO very high in this situation. I like to use slow shutter speeds, that’s just the way I like to shoot. Most bird photographers use higher speeds than I do. You can work out what best for you over time.
Anyone who expects ANY auto focus system to workk flawlessly is barking up the wrong tree, along with anyone would thinks that any UA-camr is going to show you all the shots from there shoot. Let be realistic everyone of us makes mistakes, gets exicted at we are shooting leading to the iso set wrongly and not noticing the shutter speed dropping through the floor !!!!!!!!! Easy done. Anyway thanks Phil for going through a morning shoot with us.
When I have had issues similar to what Duade has experienced it is nearly always in bursts taken of a stationary bird (or other animal) when I am holding down the AF-On button (eye focus on my camera). In a burst of six or eight shots a few may be tack, tack sharp and a few others soft. The focus point is on the eye of the unmoving bird in every shot. Don't have the issue when "locked on" to a flying bird. Don't have the issue if I focus with spot focus. As someone pointed out, the whole idea of Servo is that it is constantly refocusing during bursts, and technically we shouldn't be using Servo and tracking (or at least we should take our finger off the AF-On to lock focus) when shooting stationary subjects. Problem is, we are expecting (hoping) to get flight shots when the bird takes off and want the camera to maintain focus. I am fairly thinking the problem may be in settings (and not the camera), and have been experimenting with them. I have managed some improvements, and continue to "play"! There are way too many "me toos" in the comments on Duade's video for it to be just his camera.
The reason people are saying this is the same reason I am after my experience today. I've watched and researched the R7 extensively and watched videos on youtube to no end before pulling the trigger and buying one. The only issue ever brought up in regards to AF was using a sigma or other third party lenses on the R7, short of that every video says its great and an upgrade in every way to our trusty mark ii's. Given that, Im sure you can appreciate our shock when we go to try it out the first time with canon EF lenses and a sigma lens and find both having auto focus issues in a setting where our mark ii would nail it. I got home and uploaded the images and was left very underwhelmed....hop on youtube and put in R7 auto focus issues and low and behold video after video are now emerging of the same people who praised the camera and its autofocus walking those statements back. You cant help but wonder why this is only mentioned in the past 2 weeks when there are months and even full year of praise. Just leaves you frustrated you know?
After shooting with the R8 for several weeks I see that it's autofocus seems stickier and not prone to moving in and out once a subject is acquired. I am able to get beautiful shots with both cameras and I like each of them for their strengths but I do believe the R7 autofocus is a bit more jumpy. I bet it has to do with a slower readout speed and smaller sensor and pixels than the R8.
It certainly makes sense that the faster a sensor reads, the better its autofocus will be. This is another reason those ultra-fast stacked sensors are so good at auto-focus. The r6 Mark II/R8 sensor is one of the fastest non-stacked sensors on the market. So, the specs back up your observations. Interestingly, the a6700 with its 25 millisecond readout speed is almost exactly in the middle of the R7's 32 millisecond speed and the R6 mark II / R8 speed of 14 milliseconds. You would think its performance would be somewhere in the middle but so far it feels about the same as the R7 to me.
I've got the same combo (R7 and 100-500). I use 30 FPS as I like a choice of wing pose and don't mind going through the pictures to select the ones I like (I recently got a Mac and it's so fast to colour code the pictures I want using quick view that it hardly takes time to go through 2k pictures). Anyway, I think duade also uses a higher FPS speed than you and maybe that contributes to the issue. I do suffer from occasional hunting where, even if the bird isn't moving, the camera goes off focus and hunts for a frame or two. Not as bad as duade, but it happens enough to notice it's an issue. I wonder if the slow sensor read out is to blame - the camera has far less time to think about focus and command the lens to move than an R5 when shooting high frame rates (because a lot of time is wasted reading out the sensor). At slower rates, it makes less of an impact as, perhaps, there's enough time to read out the sensor, assess focus and drive the lens. Perhaps build variances in the lens and camera is, with the slow read out, enough to make some combos become a pain to use whilst others get lucky and it works flawlessly. In any case, I utterly love the combo and as you say, for the price, it's fantastic. Forgot to mention I shoot around 2000th of a second so don't suffer much from motion blur and I turned off auto level horizon as I read that can cause soft pictures when the sensor rotates part way through read out.
All great points. Going through more pictures than I have to gets old for me quickly. If it doesn’t bother you, the faster speed is often better as you mentioned. Faster shutter speeds are recommended by most wildlife photographers and I totally agree for birds in flight or quick situations. I prefer slow shutter speeds and low ISOs when I can get away with it. I’d recommend that you continue to do what works best for you.
I use auto horizon-levelling most of the time and I haven't had any issues with that. I very rarely get a soft image and even then, it's usually due to something else in the scene stealing the focus.
@@cooloox thanks for info, I heard about the potential issue when the camera first came out (i preordered it just after launch) so maybe it's a non issue for most but I have issues with grip strength (joint problems) so am more prone to camera wobble hence I think it could affect me more than others (ibis already moves around a lot for me).
It was answered by Canon that the problem is the AF is not fast enough when shooting in H+ that’s why it is not correct all the time. That’s probably why cameras in the same pricerange from Sony or Fuji only have 12 FPS max.
It would be more helpful to use a variety of bird shots in different conditions. My R7 definitely focus jitters ust like Duade´s. However a lot depends on the level of contrast in the image. Just using one bird in the same position is not going to illustrate the problem properly.
Hello Phil I absolutely love your reviews , you cover things so thoroughly it's great . Let me tell you Phil these R7 camera's are absolutely driving me insane , I've had two cameras one I bought from the store I don't want to name because I had issues with them , trying to return it just when I got the camera it was dead in the box so that camera was problems since day one , okay I took it into Canon they had it for over a week they basically rebuilt it , okay that camera went in 8 times before Canon decided to finally replace it , the one I've had since then is been even more trouble it went in 4 times and it is still at the Canon facility in Newport News , Virginia I had a loaner R7 and it was perfect not a single issue with it and I even asked them if I could keep that one and they said no it is a loaner so Phil maybe you can chime in about the inconsistency of these are seven cameras because personally I think it's disgusting I think Canon should just give me my money back and call today because I am really tired of dealing with the R7 series of cameras that I'll take 20 shots and two of them are in focus and that is it well the loaner I had when I took 20 shots 18 of them or text Sharp so you tell me what would you do thank you Phil .
That is terrible that you have had such a bad experience with two cameras! I suppose I have been lucky. I bought my first R7 and it worked very well and then I clumsily knocked it into a creek and killed it so I immediately bought a second one and it has been good as well. I hope they are able to get your camera working as good as that loaner did.
I have also seen this strange behavior in the M6 Mark II. I think the sensor doesn't have the greatest AF detection. Canon wants to say that it is a different sensor but I seriously doubt it. The 32.5MP sensor has almost identical specs across the board. I also think the R7 uses a similar shutter assembly and that the ibis interacting with the shutter is also contributing to the problem. I think if Canon profiles the shutter shock and implements a compensation mechanism into the ibis, I think the issue can be remedied in firmware. If this isn't the case then Canon will have to completely redesign the sensor and the shutter assembly. So I think a mark II would definitely help. Also, I think the pixel density is also high enough that any excessive movement will add pixel blur. The solution I've seen for this mostly centers around using electronic shutter and doing 30fps bursts and keeping the photos with less rolling shutter as awful as it is. I also think one could test this with an accelerometer attached to the camera to measure it vs other cameras, as most of the time the ibis and sensor assembly is floating with the shutter being directly attached to the body. (edit: I just remembered that the other way you can minimize the shutter shock is if you want mechanical or electronic first curtain you need to shoot above 1/100th of a second on the shutter. I just reread the Canon Community post about it and Jan Weneger tested it and found that out).
I believe that most people are watching UA-cam content on their cellphones while not doing their job so only true photographers have monitors that can view those wonderful megapixels. The only good thing watching the content is that the employees aren't sleeping. ☺
i think Duade's body has a problem and he should return it. our leader of the local birding club who is a really talented photographer had it and he just can't believe what he is getting even with his old EF lenses. thanks as ever Phill for the effort you put in this video. btw you and Duade are my favorite you tubers, along with espen hallend.
I am confused by supposedly professional photographers reporting their struggles with the R7 AF. I shoot daily on my small holding, with my 400 F5.6 L at shutter speeds of 1000 and up typically. I get more keepers (>80%) compared to my previous 1Diii and 7D. I have noticed some shutter slap blur at shutter speeds below 250. That’s nothing new . Very slight. I prefer shooting with electronic shutter most of the time because the rolling shutter problem is so seldom a problem that I accept that. I shoot birds mostly- 7m up to 60m typically. Yah I don’t know. I shoot in low light, mid day… Can it be that these pro’s are so spoiled by R3’s etc that they cant shoot a portrait without needing killer AF , IBIS and clean iso 640000? I shoot through twigs and grass and that is about the most I have to struggle with the AF - to convince it to find the bird behind the grass and not the grass etc. I dont use back button focus anymore. Just mapped a button to toggle eye detection. All I can think is my R7 did not watch youtube or I am superman? I agree with your viewpoint and experience Phill
Did I miss Phil describe how many frames per second he was shooting? I know @Duade tends to shoot much faster frame rates and higher shutter speeds/lower light. I’d like to see Phil shoot at Duade’s speeds and frame rates before drawing any conclusions.
@@PhilThach sorry I missed the filled buffer comment. Thanks for sharing this, I appreciate it and don’t want to appear critical, but I would still really like to see a closer apples-to-apples comparison with shutter speeds, lighting, etc. (Obviously I’ve been wrestling with this issue myself as have many others- too many in my opinion to be an expected number of soft shots). Also the plugin Duade mentioned can tell you where the autofocus was pointing. I think that’s key data point. One possibility I shared in Duade’s video - but haven’t had a good chance to prove it out yet. In looking through settings, I noticed that I had "Electronic full-time MF" (under AF, page 6 of settings) set to ON - which allows you to override autofocus with the focus ring on the lens. I noticed when I use the 100-500, handheld at least, when my left hand supports the lens, my finger and thumb are on the zoom, and the focus ring rests EXACTLY on the base of my hand. As I look at it, I'm wondering if the movement of my hand to compose and zoom is moving the focus ring slightly? Or the vibration of the shutter is causing it to move slightly. Either way, I'm turning it off. Food for thought. For those struggling, if it's set it might be worth a try. @PhilThach can you check if you have that enabled? And thank you for following up on this.
For $1,500 bucks. R7 rocks. My R3 (as of this post) doesn't even have Raw preburst like the R7 .. even tho' my humming birds wings look like melting chocolate...but it works.
My experience with the R7 is that overall the AF system works pretty well, especially under good light. That said, I definitely notice that it can drop critical focus for a few frames before regaining it. It's almost like the lens is pumping focus because in a burst I often see a drift when I review at 100 percent. That said, I'm still using an adapted EF 600mm f4 prime so maybe it'll be more consistent when I upgrade to the RF lens. Another issue a lot of people overlook with the R7 is that it's a very unforgiving sensor. Pixel pitch is tiny so your technique has to be good. I also crank up my shutter speed a bit compared to when I'm using a full frame body - it seems to help! Thanks for the video.
Everyone is talking about AI to do their pics that are sharp reducing the time in viewing the pics individually and having less time consuming in creating content for clients or UA-cam or whatever you produce. Are you thinking about this?
@@tatesue ua-cam.com/video/lOhWxGglSV0/v-deo.html&pp=ygVXYmVzdCBhaSBwcm9ncmFtIHRoYXQgY2FuIHNpZnQgdGhyb3VnaCB5b3VyIHBpY3R1cmUgZmlsZXMgYW5kIHNlbGVjdCB0aGUgYmVzdCBvZiB0aGUgbG90. The Art of Photography is one of my favorite UA-camrs and I will add another one in the next reply.
@@tatesue ua-cam.com/video/DJnEeRv15kA/v-deo.html I like the way she is organizing in this video. I hope these two help answering your question. I hear a lot of complaints from Wedding and Wildlife photographers complaining all of the pics that they took and how hard it was to sift through them. I am curious myself and that is why i asked the question to Phil. Cheers!
@@tatesue Katelyn James was organization and the first one you set up what you like and then let it run. That is one program Imagen AI which I found interesting That Art of Photography tried and I was thinking about the process which make sense. The other one by Katelyn James is using subfolders and the other one by Art of Photography is for the Imagen AI which you set up the parameters and it helps the process. Those are only two examples that I have viewed on UA-cam. I asked Phil if he ever did any AI software to speed up his performance basically. I am interested in this process. I hope this answer clarifies my position. We could google for AI software to see how many photographers have used this type of software. Just a thought. BTW What is your favorite camera and lens selection right now? I am more into video and like using different cameras all of the time. I like watching Phil's videos because of his storytelling and content which I think is excellent. Cheers!
Thanks for sharing your results. From your finch sequences I don't think you're apples to apples with Duade's situation? I see no position variation from shot to shot which makes me think the camera is locked down rather than handheld, and you're a little closer than typical based on the size of the bird in the frame. I see the exact same thing he does when handholding at 500mm, 1/1000, 30 FPS e-shutter on wild birds at typical distances. It slips in and out of focus over a sequence of images where the eye detect has a perfect lock on the eye. (You can see the auto-focus point in the Canon software). Less than half are close to sharp. Maybe 25% are tack sharp. The rest are total garbage. This is after filtering out all the turned heads, missed focus, bad light, and so on. Just talking about potential keepers spoiled. (But that 25% still makes it the best camera I've ever owned.) So I think you're misunderstanding his point a bit--he's saying that the actual focus frequently is not where the autofocus point is, and that doesn't happen on R5 and R6 in similar conditions.
Exactly! This is my experience. I thought it was me, but it turns out many others have the same problem. Plus the company I bought it from has confirmed the same. There is a problem. I have reported to Canon and it being escalated. Anyone who is experiencing the same should report the issue to Canon. DPP shows that the in-focus af points are not. For me, the plane of focus lies behind.
I would have totally expected I'd have re[plied to this vid, but its not coming yup to the top when I opened it ? In any case, after using the R7 for almost 2 yrs now (I have two of them) and taking somewhere around 300K shots with them, now more than ever, I just have to say how much I love / hate this camera :) lol Yes, the AF and EAF kind of sucks. Its probably less sticky than any of the full frame models. But if you need the extra reach, what are you going to do ? I don't feel like the R7 is "the best choice" I feel like its "my only choice". Still no regrets of selling my R5. I mean, if I could have kept it, and gotten the two R7's too, sure. I mean, 5% of the time I could use the R5 in low light, when I could get close enough. But the rest of the time, I'd still have no choice but to use my R7's.
Unlike Duade - as much as I respect his criticisms - you have been using a tripod for your tests it seems. And consequently you didn't have to rely on your hand holding steadiness and thus got more reliable results...
I don’t see any reason at all to question your integrity. And no one posts the bad shots! Nor should you need to. Having said that, the r7, for me, is well below the capability of the r5, at least for the way I use it. All the shots you show in this video are simple shots. The bird is just sitting there. That’s not really a challenge at all. You’re shooting a such slow shutter speeds that your ISO is 100! I just don’t shoot that way and this is easy shooting. Try some flying birds or try to get them hopping from place to place and take some high shutter-speed shots, shots where a high shutter speed is needed to freeze the motion. I’ve had the r7 just miss fast moving birds where i’m confident that the r5 would have gotten me the shot. It just doesn’t track and hold like the r5 does. Heck, it’s not in the same league, even. Not to say you cannot bag some shots, though, but you will need to take a lot of shots to ensure you bring home some keepers. Based on what you show in this video, I would not say this is outstanding. It passed this test no doubt, but this is simple shooting. In order to have a meaningful discussion, we need to get on the same page. I agree that no camera is perfect, though, and all cameras are going to miss some shots. And I even agree that for $1500, the r7 is a great buy. But it is not my preferred camera to use for birding, because it can’t handle action shooting at very well, at least compared to the r5/r6. Who is expecting every single shot to be a keeper? I’m not sure why you mention that or what the context is of this discussion. Or maybe Daude is judging based on more challenging subjects. And of course not every single shot is going to be perfect, that is never the case. This video does not show to me that the r7 is dynamite! :). I still like it though, i just wish canon had put more into it, but I think they toned it down to match that $1500 price. You want better performance, pay up!!!
I was having focus issues with my R7, it wasn't the camera, it was me... Sounds like a hater. Everyone takes bad photos, especially with digital cameras. I want to see your best, not the trash. Keepers only for me...
Wait boys.... 2 seconds later.... Wow.. I took 57 wonderful photos.... dang 4 of them are slightly Blurry.... hand me my 9mm; let me put this camera out of it's misery boys.
I don’t know why you would feel compelled to show your “not so good” images…. Nobody does unless they are demonstrating the wrong way vs. the right way. I did see that your demo was with a tripod? Maybe the keeper rate would go down hand held? I love my R7 ❤️ Just show us your best shots and I’m sure that 99% of us will be happy with seeing them 😀
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I noticed after previewing this video that, unless you are watching at fairly high resolution and you are positioned close to the screen, you may not be able to see the difference between a photograph that I have judged to be sharp versus one that I have judged to be soft. That’s how much UA-cam takes away from a sharp image. They all look soft on UA-cam!
I feel your pain. Facebook kills them too. Yea, I still get some misses too, but I take a lot of photos, and unless it's just terrible conditions (very low light) I almost always get some sharp shots to choose from 🙂👍
G'day Phil, thanks for the shout out and doing this video, your performance is very interesting and is great to show how well the R7 performed in your testing. I am suspecting there is an issue with my R7 as I get actual focus shifting between frames, so not that it is not tack sharp but an actual shift in the focal plane. I totally agree that some softness from the subject moving or you moving is normal and I get that on the R3, Z9 etc. The issue I am having is when I shoot a burst with my R7 it goes from sharp to soft instantly between shots, and when I check the focus point it has not moved. At the moment it seems I cannot get a burst of sharp shots like you have shown in this video with my R7, yet I can with the R5, R3.
I must admit the problem is worse in low light or not direct sunlight which does challenge the AF a little more. Your video highlights the importance of light and distance to subject helping a lot with IQ. I am just noticing a big difference between the R7 and my other Canon bodies which is very frustrating. Your video shows me how the camera should be performing so it is hard to know exactly what my issue is. I will send my R7 into Canon to check and will update with the findings as it should be performing like yours.
Thanks again, Cheers, Duade
I got the same issue of AF shifting with the R7 at times. That is not the case with my R5. Sometimes it can help to overexpose a bit more, just to help the AF in better finding the subject.
Another strange glitch happening with the R7 is that it will continue shooting out of its own; this happens when I use backbutton AF, then press the shutter and release the backbutton AF before releasing the shutter. It will keep firing away (at least in drive modes H/H+) another 5-10 images. Not the biggest issue as you won't lose any shots, but a bit annoying as I sometimes choose to disengage AF to prevent focus shifting. Anyone got the same problem?
Duade, my experience is precisely the same as yours -- and with TWO R7's. A work colleague has the same issue with his R7. A stream of six images, from the SAME SHUTTER PRESS, may have four images out of spec! The images seem to cycle in and out. But keep in mind, we aren't shooting birds point blank from a hide. We're shooting in the wild, at a distance.
@Duade Are you using firmware 1.3.1? Could the firmware be the problem?
Hi, Duade! I hope you can get your R7 sorted out. Thanks for stopping by.
I don't think it's your camera, Duade. Too many of us are seeing the exact same thing you are when shooting in similar conditions. If you put your camera at 300mm on a tripod and shoot your Gary Glar at half frame or larger, it'll be fine--just like Phil's sequences. But that's not typical wild shooting conditions. When you get out of this highly controlled situation, the focal plane isn't where the focal point says it is, more often than not.
Hi, I use the R7 and the R5 for Wildlife Photography. And my sister owns the R6 Mark II. We can not tell that any of these 3 Cameras deliveres less sharp Images than the other. I totally agree that you simply can not expect every single photo of a series to be 100% sharp.
Thank you!
@patrickdold20, Do you find the R5 better in low light than the R7?
The R7 will behave erratically in conditions where the light is poor or the birds are not as close as those shown in your video. I have found focus to vary considerably in the case of a lark or wader in grass. The camera may indicate it has locked on to the eye but may focus in front or behind the bird. Generally, there are few problems with a bird close and in clear view but as you have found there are some fails. On the whole the R7 performs very well for the price.
THIS is precisely what I experience as well. Although, I'm having some issues with focus in all but good light. Basically, if there's sunlight, autofocus works incredibly well. If it's in the shade, not so much. Makes me think the camera is far more reliant on contrast to achieve focus versus the R5/R6II/R3.
I think Duade shoots longer distances than the back porch, so maybe that's where it falls down a bit. You should do another video on its success rate out in the field by one of your wetlands etc.
Similar thoughts. It is easier for an already great AF system to lock on focus more consistently for closer subjects than distant ones. And it is not only Duade who shared that experience. Great video though!
I’ve watched both videos and I’m experiencing the same problem as Duade. I would be very happy with the results you are getting! In a burst that long it will almost always lose focus entirely. Not barely off like yours, rather several inches of focal plane or something far in the background. Huge shifts. I will also say I’m usually in lower light situations. That may be the key.
Have a look if there are repeating patterns in the vicinity of where you want to focus. These were always the source for problems in phase detect autofocus, especially when noise comes into play and you are underexposing. I found that my R7 focuses more reliably when enabling the OVF simulation because then the autofocus has better image quality to work with.
Thanks for this review. I’ve listened to everything I could about the R7 and the common thread is focus issues , shutter shock in ms mode causing blurred photos and issues with distortion in ms mode. I’m glad you did this video to show what one can expect. Makes my buying decision easier.
Thanks for this lengthy demonstration, I was concerned about eventually getting an RF Telephoto with the R7 after hearing about these autofocus woes but it hardly seems a problem here! I've noticed it struggle to focus on my 100-400 L ii in low light or extreme distance situation but increasing the exposure solves it. Coming from a 40D the R7 may as well be a piece of alien tech.
Btw, the House Finch around 7:30 looks like it could have Mycoplasmal conjunctivitis. If you have a feeder it's been visiting it could be due for a cleaning!
Thank you! I clean our feeders but probably not often enough.
I've noticed on a male house finch near my house ... i freaked out when i was on the 500mm and saw the poor bird's right eye almost closed shut and puffy and his left eye with a swollen pink tissue around the eye. Thank you for the heads up. Poor thang.
Another great video, thanks. I also saw Duade Paton's video, and I was surprised because I have never really seen the problem he described (loss of AF lock across a burst) with my R7/ RF 100-500. I wondered whether this was a consequence of his faster frame rates (I use low speed continuous, as you recommended in your last video), low light (when the AF struggles more), and servo AF (after all, it's designed to re-acquire focus with every shot in a burst). I imagine this could be aggravated if the viewfinder AF box is much larger than the subject. In any case, I am happy that not everyone is affected.
You are quite right about the difference between 'soft' and 'sharp' images being lost by UA-cam.
Thank you!
Thanks ! what a relief to hear from a pro explaing and setting up the expections from the 7R! thanks
This is incredible performance for a camera. Your test is pretty conclusive. The R7/100-500mm is a potent combination.
Thank you, David!
In Duade’s video he shows the point where the focus point ( you can see them in the R7 if you want ) is and the problem he has ( and me and others ) is the fact that in some pictures the focus point is straight on the eye but the picture was completely out of focus. And because you didn't showed the red square of the focus point we will never know where you focussed. Coming from a 7D II i am very happy with my R7, i was just wondering why a few photo's from me where completely out of focus while my red square was on the eye. And after seeing Duade’s item i knew i wasn't the only one who has that problem every now and then. But it happens very rare.
You are right, I should have used a viewer that showed the focus point. I must mention that just because the focus point is at a location doesn’t mean the lens is actually focused there. It may be attempting to get there. It’s also possible that what was there has moved since focus locked there. Thank you.
@@PhilThach No, it happens on the same object which hardly moves, it happens randomly. Haven't experienced it lately but that has to do because i do mostly macro without fast shutter speed at the moment. Anyway, it's no deal breaker because the R7 is a huge step forwards compared with the D7II.
I saw Duade’s video and thought of you so it’s good that you have done a comparison check. A huge amount of keepers. I always take lots of pictures of a single Bird because you get that tac sharp shot as well as the pose you want. If you started posting soft images I don’t think your subscribers would be too impressed. I expect good pictures from you and you deliver.
Thank you!
Thanks for sharing! It's nice to see all the shots. I agree that the hit rate is awesome! It amazes me what people find to complain about. I'm still irritated that someone questioned your integrity. Who doesn't show the very best photo? Keep up the great videos.
Thank you, Stephen!
Well done Phill This needed doing, I have the RF 100-400 and on strings of 15 photos elec. first Curtain, I get usually 10-11 which are ok and just a couple which are not in focus some of those are motion Blur. Put it this way I don't want 11 photos of the same bird in the same position I want 1 edited final result and having 11 good ones to chose from gives me plenty of scope.
Exactly, thank you!
Thanks for sharing the video Phil. Someone questioned your integrity for only showing good photos? 😂 wow! End of the day it’s the photographer who takes the shot and not the camera. A good photographer will work out a cameras strengths and weaknesses and use it accordingly. Enjoy your R7 Phil and thank you for sharing your “only in focus” photos will us all 👍🙏
Thank you, Adrian!
Great and fair video! Thanks a lot for this demonstration. I am a bit surprised that people really always expect perfect cameras, perfect lenses and finally perfect shots in every situation, as we know that can't be realistic. Perhaps you should better point out that a long(er) distance shot is of course different from a short distance shot since the camera struggles to detect animals in a complex surrounding and of course there is often no eye to be identified as such. And last but not least we have to consider the price with respect to a Canon R5 or Canon R3. All in all I would like to confirm that the R7 is a very good APS-C camera, if we take into account the limits that always exist. It is photographer's task to make the best.
Many greetings
Robert (Frankfurt, Germany)
Thank you!
I encountered the same problem as Duade. Maybe I was shooting too fast. Maybe thus it's not comparable. Also as others said it happened to me at maximum focus length and objects sometimes not sitting still on a branch.
To nail this down I used DPP 4 which shows where the camera shows the focus area.
One other thing which you guys didn't mention: it seems mandatory for 500mm to set "lens drive when af impossible" on the R7 otherwise it just doesn't want to focus at all. This is a showstopper for not planned shots. Don't get why canon does this.
R7 firmware is 1.3.1, lens was 1.1 IIRC.
Good video. I trust what I see you share.
I have an R7 and know, as well, focus can be finicky depending on lens and situation
Thank you!
I've been having focus problems with my R7 recently. After looking for solutions I see a few people saying Canon has done warranty replacement of some components to fix it.
Terrific video. I have R7 and Sigma 150 600 C. 40% of my shots are soft and I do all bird photography handheld. There are so many variables other than the camera body itself. Lighting, distance, atmospheric distortion, camera shake, motion blur etc. And obviously the fact that I am using a 3rd party lens. Never had that issue with Sony A6400 paired with Sigma EF 150 600 and MC11 adapter.
I had rented RF 100 500 for a week and I did experience issues similar to what Duade described. You may be one of the lucky ones who got a good R7 copy with no issues.
Thank you! I’m going to get an a6700 and see what that camera is like.
Great video and your results i would take in a minute, but its not what Duade and I are seeing. It can only be you have a better version of the R7 or your settings. at 9:43 where the bird barely moves and you do a full buffer, I would have 30% or so soft. This is similiar to what Duade showed. I would be VERY interested in your AF settings. Maybe a future video : ). Maybe that is the difference.
30% not in focus = 7 out of 10 ok you only need 1 good one to edit so you have 6 good ones you dont use ???
@@1610russell that is true, however if only 7 of 10 are in focus when it is not moving at all, what happens when your tracking and that perfect shot is the one that is not in focus. I never had the problem with my 7d2 but i do now with my R7.. so i was hoping since watching Phil's video he has a much better result it might just be a setting.
I only watched portions of this video so what I am mentioning may miss the target. Tony Northrup and Chelsea did a video or two quite a while ago in which they discussed what manufactures say and reality. What Tony and Chelsea found was they weren't getting a decent "hit" rate with autofocus with cameras proclaimed to have high frames per second. They did a quick survey of their extended photographer friends to see what hit rate these folks were getting with their super duper high frame per second cameras. The answer was low hit rates. They concluded that manufactures were putting out cameras with alleged high frame rates but the camera's focusing couldn't keep up. This observation crossed many brands.
I'm with you Phil, I love Duade work too, but I have the same setup as you and have had none of the issues that Duade has had, if you watch his video it looks like his camera is bouncing on and off focus, which to me looks like it maybe a fault of that particular camera. Like I said mine has been fine. keep up the good work
Great video Phil! Could you please share your R7 back button AF settings in another video. The amazing R7 has so many AF settings - many are describing its symptoms but not comparing AF base settings - which can have dramatic results. I would love to see the settings that produced your consistent results.
I agree completely. The hit rate blows my mind most of the time. Occasionally I wonder why it isn't locking on but that's usually in less than ideal conditions....or me.
Thank you!
Hi, Phil
I'm new to the R10, and when I look through the viewfinder at a stationary subject and utilize back button focusing, ripping off a few continuous shots, the focus point (set at "one point") keeps wandering about as connected or singular red squares - what the heck is happening? BTW, camera is handheld, but taking the same picture in manual mode is perfect, while AF photos are just a bit blurry.
Many thanks for your anticipated response.
Sounds like you back button is programmed to a different focus mode.
Some people will say I am not taking advantage of all the R7 can do but I don’t shoot with tracking on normally. I set up my camera a lot like Scott from Wild Alaska. I have a button set to eye focus and one to spot. Once I have focus I only press the desired button again if the bird/animal or I move. Why let the camera get confused about a stationary subject?
The bird is in flight I hold the eye focus back button. My keeper rate is over 90% which means I have too many pictures and it causes me a lot of work to determine which ones to process.
I use this method on my R5 as well. The keeper rate is nearly identical.
Like you said, the R7 is $1499.
I have an R7 that freezes up in auto focus. Nothing works. This happens random 😂focal point doesn’t move and the focal point always goes to the right corner sometimes 10 seconds before auto focus decides to locate a subject. Has this happened to you?
I recently got the canon R7 and use the rf 100-400mm. This is my first camera I’ve ever used and have only had for a month. I’m already nailing shots of small birds and wildlife. I say out of every 10 shots I take, around 3 are useable
Sounds good!
@@PhilThachit has been! Also are you on the R7’s latest firmware update? I noticed better autofocus after upgrading the firmware to the latest version
Thanks so much for sharing another wonderful video like always Phil, I learn to live with the R7 auto focus issues but I am getting many keepers so for me it's not a problem at all, I love my R7 🐦👍🤗
Great to hear!
Great review of the R7 autofocus system Phil! Any of the modern autofocus systems on all major brands are light years ahead of what I used to be able to capture on manual focus cameras years ago. And using film? Talk about photography, especially of wildlife, birds, etc. being expensive! Still not perfect but what else technology wise is!🤔
I agree, thank you!
I have the same combination as you Phil and I also have an R5. I’ve just about given up using the R7 because the autofocus is so unreliable. I have sufficient experience to know how to take sharply focused photographs of birds. However, my results are just about the opposite of yours. I get occasional sharp shots and hundreds of “nearly sharp” shots. Often, the autofocus point is on the bird’s eye, which you can see on the rear screen, but the actual focus is in a slightly different plane. It drives me nuts. I question whether all R7s are equal!??
My R7 has been doing well with the 100-500mm and 800mm. I use fv mode and mainly shoot 1/250 to 1/500, keep the lens wide open, and adjust the ISO manually watching the histogram. I did notice right off the bat the autofocus is sensitive to the settings and if you are too dark it will flounder around a little. I shoot 1st curtain shutter. I did have a problem early on where focus would try for a short moment and then it would just quit trying to focus but there was an option in the menu to force the lens to hunt for focus and once that was turned on then everything smoothed out.
fwiw, WildAlaska guy also mention increasing exposure to gain focus, ie make af job easier, and then go back to what you want
question Phil - I'm wondering what is your thought process as to shoot such lower SS? - is it because of tripod, feed location? - I rarely shoot below 800 for anything. but I'm pretty new to the game
I have a neurologic tremor, and I find that I need faster shutter speeds even with image stabilization. For this reason, I try to keep my shutter speed at or above 1/640 at full zoom (500 mm with my RF 100-500) or the the "1/focal length rule" more generally. This despite lens stabilization that works very well with the R7 IBIS. Clearly, Phil has a steadier hand than me :)
@@wellingtoncrescent2480 I don't have any tremors, that I know of, but even locked down on a tripod, even using a remote to fire the shutter (IBIS off or on), I tend to get more sharp images of a stationary subject (500mm or 500+1.4) with a shutter speed above 1/500, and even more above 1/1000. I don't know why. Many of the shots are usable, they just aren't tack sharp coming out of the camera. I have friends shooting the same subject hand held at much lower speeds without issue (that they are willing to tell me about). As a result I strive for at least those speeds.
@@alansach8437 It doesn't really fit with your description, but have you tried the electronic shutter? Given the light weight of the R7, it is more susceptible to shutter shock than heavier full-frame bodies. I find that my images are definitely sharper with the electronic vs mechanical shutter, and I don't find the rolling shutter to be too limiting. That said, it may just be that Phil is eerily steady :). As sensor resolution increases, many commentators are finding that the usual "1 over focal length" rule is no longer be enough to mitigate camera shake, even with image stabilization.
I like to keep my ISO as low as possible even if it means I loose some shots because of motion blur. I know there are programs that can get rid of noise and I use them but I like to start with as little noise as possible. The thing that helps me use slow shutter speed the most if the electronic shutter.
I have an R7 that freezes up in auto focus. Nothing works. This happens random focal point doesn’t move and the focal point always goes to the right corner sometimes 10 seconds before auto focus decides to locate a subject. Has this happened to you?
Sometimes my focus point moves to the corner. It's usually because I've bumped the screen with my face.
Hello Phil, thanks for your videos. I have a R7 and have the same problem, that is the way the camera works AF is not that great, but still it's a good camera. All photographers, we pick the best photos, anybody knows that 😅.
Whew! I thought 1/15 was too slow in what I shoot so I do not have many pictures to go through. 😏 Then Matt Irwin shoed one 1/6 of the reflection of water with the building lights which is fantastic. His video dealt with the Nikkor 14-30mm F/4 S lens.
What was interesting about Duade's video was that he showed shots where the focus point was on the eye, but the focus jumped to the background. I have never had that happen with my R7 that I've noticed so maybe he does just have a bad copy of the camera.
Don’t worry about those people questioning your integrity Phil. Not worth it. Seriously people should understand that even the Bird Whisperer has to shout sometimes. 😊
Thank you!
I think Duade's comment was also that he is not sure if he has some issue with his copy of the R7. And one thibg he does is he shot the sqme higb speeed shot on hia toy bird on a fixed and found AF not staying on the bird eye all fhe time. Same with Brent Hall. Glad to see the large numver of images that are sharp and makes my second camera decision easy! Thabks Phil.
Do u always use the burst mode under electronic first curtain mode when taking bird photography?
No, I use full electronic shutter, usually, including in all the shots in this video. Sometimes for birds in flight I will use mechanical or electronic first curtain, but all of these shots and most of my shots are full electronic shutter.
Great shots Phil!
Possible user error for some people new to photography, especially bird photography!
The R7 is a complex camera and I think some users expect too much.
Even the pros don’t nail every shot!
Always the possibility that some cameras are faulty though.
Thank you!
I disagree, we expect much because this is meant to be a successor to the 7D Mark II with a similar AF system to the R3, but instead is more on the level of the 80D/90D. I would go as far as say the 7D is overpriced for what it is and should have been about the same price as a 90D at launch.
Duade is one of the key bird photographers in my book. So highly doubt user error. seems like maybe the body's may not be consistant and some keep focus better than others.
i have the latest firmware and the same issue, i had the 100-400mm before the 100-500 and had no issues, it's really annoying and I am not even using subject tracking just single point AF and normal tracking, I am getting a lower hit rate than with the 'cheap' lens.
I love what you and Heather do with your R7. Sure, you don't show your bad photos.
My background in photography is from being a newspaper photographer and black and white film. I was a news photographer back in the 70s. The cameras we used were very very basic compared to what you have today, but we got some outstanding photos.
You have some of these guys shooting the state-of-the-art cameras and lens and still complain about a few shots not tack sharp. Hand them an old Nikon F film camera and they would never make it with that aptitude. Some guy from Australia was using a R7 and had some wonderful pictures handheld. The next episode he was telling about how bad the auto focus was. I don't get it.
Clicks...
great video , thanks Phil . None of the cameras with bird eye tracking I've ever used produces 100% sharp frames , even when the bird sits still AF fluctuates from time to time. R5 is definitely better than R7 in this regard, but for the $1.5k price R7 does a great job IMO . I love mine !
Canon R7 , Adapter, Canon 100mm macro( non is) . Most of my butterly macros out of focus. I use ewf while shooting and I see the target out of focus and always blury. Thanks to the full time manual mode otherwise I would not have sharp images if only use AF mode only.( Camera mode: Single shot, spot metering, Lens AF ON)Any information will higly be welcomed.
Nice video Phil! What image viewer are you using? I like the uncluttered look.
Thanks, Forrest! It’s just Lightroom with the left, right and top panels collapsed.
@@PhilThach thanks! I've been using camera raw and I started suspecting it was Lightroom. I clicked around in my Lightroom version and came up with a similar review.
Since this video was released, Duade Paton made an inquiry to Canon to try to resolve his autofocus issues. THEIR response was posted in a video and essentially suggested that the autofocus system does not perform consistently at high frame rates. To me that is quite definitive. Now I am not sure if I missed what your frame rates are, but Duade was shooting at 30fps electronic shutter.
The solution suggested by Canon was to shoot slower, however if one drops down to shoot mechanical then it sounds like a machine gun, so shooting at around 11 fps, first curtain was the best compromise he could find. The camera particularly struggled in lower contrast areas.
I am a retired wildlife photographer myself, and do voluntary support on the Canon Community site. I did quite a bit of testing myself on the R7 and came to the following conclusions:
- Because the APS-C sensor has a 32MP capacity, it's density if upsized to a FF one, would generate a sensor of 83MP, which no camera maker has approached, thus there must be some compromises made, and those are in terms of focus, dynamic range, and data bus performance.
While the 90D (it's actual precursor) had a 32MP sensor, it did not use the sensor to do the focusing, it had its own focusing sensors and there were FAR fewer of them, so the data load was massively lower. This had two implications in the R7:
a) When focusing for every image while at high speed burst, the focusing system could not keep up with the flow of data from the sensor. This resulted in the demonstrated focus/no focus cycle that Duade and I (and others) have experienced.
b) If the sensor was BSI/Stacked the flow of data would have been significantly faster, although that would have added considerable cost as it would have meant upgrades to the rest of the data bus right back to the buffer and card upload speeds. That would have prevented the pixel shift phenomenon that plagues the R7 for moving subjects.
As Duade and others have commented, this admission from Canon raises the question of why offer 30fps if it cannot be consistently and reliably maintained. It is notable that Sony, in producing similar spe, c'd cameras, kept their shutter speeds in the lower zone of 11-15fps.
I also did a data load balancing analysis in the bus overall and came to the conclusion that there are bottlenecks in the process and buffer - which is why one can only shoot 1.2 sec of RAW images before the buffer fills and no shots can be taken until that clears. A bigger buffer and a CF-Express card would assist in that respect, but again at cost.
The lens also has an impact on this. The RF 100-500L has dual Nano-USM motors attached to superior focusing circuitry, which is unique at the moment, so signals from the camera's focusing system will be more readily applied than most other lenses that do not have these features.
There ARE solutions to mitigate this. Shooting in single point focus with eye tracking (I do that anyway) significantly reduces the load on the focusing system. Using 11fps will also help, but the camera will struggle in low contrast conditions relative to a much lower pixel density body because of its smaller sensors have lower dynamic range capacity.
It was a disappointment to me as I had hoped for a top end APS-C camera with the model of 7 would be up to the 7D series of pro-grade APS-C bodies, but (as Canon later admitted) it is really a successor to the 90D, which would suggest it could have been called something different - like the R9 or R70. It was built for a price and at that price it provides good value, but IMHO the branding dept. made a blunder with their model number choice.
I shoot instead with the FF R5 and R6 series of bodies that offer much higher keeper rates and also significantly better dynamic range - but they cost more and so do their optics.
For most people a 20-24MP sensor is perfectly adequate and the sensor on the F10 would have been perfectly adequate, but folks have a pixel fixation that is not all positive. This is in line with the development of the R3 and R1 that feature 24MP BSI/Stacked sensors that pro-grade journalist and sports photographers need for their work: fast focus, better dynamic range, fast processing and high speed connectivity to upload to editors and agencies.
I can shoot with the 45MP R5 in 1.6 crop mode and get the same FoV, with better focus and dynamic range, and still generate about 18MP, so that is the way I am going. My impression is that Canon is concentrating on the FF line and has less priority on the APS-C market. In part this is implied by them giving licenses to Sigma and Tamron to provide RF-S lenses (only) for their platform.
Great comment. I normally use the middle speed and electronic shutter or sometimes even the slow speed and electronic. I very rarely use the maximum 30fps speed.
Hi Trevor9934, I recently used the R7 with the EF 100-400mm L on BIF here in the Canadian Maritime (East Coast) and 1st pic is always in focus the rest is all over the place, didn't use the electronic shutter but the mechanical one. When BIF are over the water Atlantic/St. Laurence Gulf (as sometimes as I was on top of a cliff) then forget to focus on anything, not too many keepers. When birds where static (resting on the cliffs) then it wasn't too bad and had more keepers.
HI. I used to be a professional wildlife photographer, but have been retired for some years - although, really the difference is I choose my own projects and subject and don't get paid. I am fairly old-school with my setup and I shoot in mechanical shutter, usually varying between low and high speed. I shoot single point BBF, and single point BB Exposure as well. I almost always shoot hand-held. For wildlife, I shoot with eye tracking in servo mode.
I think much depends on how the camera was setup. I think that the setup makes a huge difference with regards to success rates, and whoever seeks to do a scientific experiment, it needs to be clearly stated what the configuration. I engaged with Duade about his experience and my understanding is that he was shooting with a tripod, using IS and IBIS, and 30 fps electronic shutter.
It appears that your configuration is significantly different to Duade's in several aspects and those could well be the reason his results differ for you.
Much also depends on the lens attached. The RF lenses are obviously dedicated for the camera technologies. I found it interesting that he has complaints about the Sigma 150-600c lens pulsing in and out of focus. I have that lens plus the 60-600s version and, using my setup,with my R5, R6 and R6II cameras, have had absolutely no issues with those 3rd party lenses. It is interesting that Sigma went to the effort to publish a video stating that their EF lenses perform properly with the R-series. bodies. In the demonstration they were making, they used the R6 body, which is a 20MP FF sensor body.
Phil, a couple observations. As close as you were to the subjects, you should expect more. The R5, R6, and R6ii give you more. And shooting at f/7.1 or higher (as you always are when shooting the 100-500 at 500mm), if you're anywhere close to focus, the depth of field should keep EVERYTHING in focus! It shouldn't be possible to miss focus "slightly" with f/7 to f/11. If you're missing focus at f/8, that's a BIG miss. So . . . I don't think it's an autofocus issue. I think something else is at play. Maybe a sensor readout issue. We know it's a slow sensor with a tiny buffer. Maybe that's impacting image quality. Some of my best bird images were taken with the R7. When it hits, it's an amazing camera. But when shooting at a distance or in a complicated environment, I always made sure to take LOTS of images -- because I figured the R7 was going to mess up 2/3 of them. Very frustrating. The R5 doesn't give you that R7 crop . . . but it also doesn't let me down.
I think any camera will have some misses at great distances and or complicated environments. It’s certainly possible to miss slightly with a small aperture if you are looking for critical focus. Often at 7.1 you have the eye perfect and the tail of a small bird very out of focus. That is acceptable. But when the tail is in and the eye is out, that won’t do. And again, this is very possible on a small bird at 7.1. A large bird in flight at a distance will yield a much larger depth of field. Small bird, close enough to fill some of the frame will give you a very thin depth of field even at 7.1. That’s one reason I don’t miss my 500 f/4 that I sold.
I have the R6 and feel like it is not much better though I am using cheaper lenses (RF 100-400 and 800 f11).
Another problem I suspect is the moving lens stabilizing element - it is possible it moves and either gets desynced with IBIS or the AF cannot catch up it also creates a soft image as if it is out of focus - I tried doing some handheld shots with focus locked and stabilization turned on and a few shots seem soft but not due to motion blur. I've noticed a similar softness issue on previous lenses with DSLRs without IBIS as well. As an aside I do find the RF 100-400 stabilization rather inconsistent especially with the 1.4 teleconverter where it sometimes spazzes out.
@@fylphotography9269That’s an interesting theory. I don’t have an R7, but on my Olympus camera there is a setting for whether the camera should prioritize stabilization or fps. Maybe the R7 has something similar that could be useful for testing.
I’m sharing the same experience, the keepers in this camera is higher than in my previous Sony and Nikon cameras. Is it perfect? No. But I doubt that in any other camera on that price range you can get a better score.
It is easy to be too picky, only the biggest problem with Canon mirrorless tends to be with third party lenses. I am still in two minds whether to get an R7, I use an R5 and R5, with Sigma I tends to use 7D2 and 5D4, sometimes I wonder why I went to mirrorless. My biggest gripe is that the focus point likes to hug corners or wander around, oh and when I put the camera down something touches to rear screen and changes something drastically.
Hi Phil and Heather. Hope you’re enjoying Vero Beach. Used to be a medical traveler and was put it up in a nice a condo for my 3 months’ stay. Those days are gone. Got a question re : the R7. Read a review which said the shutter slap on the R7 is severe. Would you comment on that and it’s AF focusing effects for birds ? Thanks Enjoy. 😊
I recommend using the electronic shutter for birds unless you are using fast shutter speeds. I like to use the slowest shutter speed I can get away with so I'm basically always in electronic shutter mode when photographing birds. Shutter slap is severe with the mechanical.
I think both you and Duade have made great points. With the R7, it just seems like there are random out-of-focus shots in a burst, at least with the electronic shutter, when the others are in focus. With the R5, if the camera locks onto the eye, it will likely get more in-focus shots in a burst (at least with the mechanical shutter) than the R7, at least in my experience over the last few weeks switching between these two cameras and using the RF 100-500. With the R5, when it doesn't lock on you just get most if not all of the burst out of focus, which is to be expected. The net result is having to take more individual shots with the R7 to make sure you have enough keepers, vs the R5. That's been my experience, anyway. The R5 is also better overall in challenging lighting conditions, but that's to be expected with a much bigger 45 MP sensor.
Phil, for your test shots, what mode were you shooting in? Mechanical? Electronic? 1st curtain? I wonder if that makes a difference in the autofocus issues some people have reported
I was using electronic. I think Duade uses that mode as well. Thank you.
I was using electronic. I think Duade uses that mode as well. Thank you.
Phil, I made a similar comment what I'm saying here on Duade's video a few days back. While not every image is tack sharp, I have not experienced the issues he was having. I have not doubt his experiences are real just I haven't had it. To me the metric isn't if every photo is tack sharp, it is the overall keeper rate over time. I've shot Sony, Canon and Nikon. The R7 is producing a little better keeper rate than my D500 and to be fair, the D500 and Nikkor lenses set the bar pretty high. Everything seen as a whole, the R7 and the L lenses I have (100-500, 24-105 F4 and 100mm Macro) are on par with and slightly better than the Nikon lenses. I will say the Canon 100mm Macro does lack a little something when compared to the Nikkor 105mm macro. That Nikon lens just had something special.
As far as someone questioning your integrity because you share the best photos and not the bad ones? Really? I don't even know what to say about that other than don't sweat it. I don't know a single photographer who publishes their bad photos.
I think Duade's critique of the the R7 pointed out problems like rolling shutter (the leaning background rails in one of your photos might be an example of that) where you might not expect it and problems with shutter shock or vibration at slow shutter speeds when using the mechanical shutter. I recently tested an R7 with the 600mm f11 lens and was impressed. I think it would be, and probably is, a dynamite combo with the 100-500mm zoom. However, I think Canon made a mistake releasing a less refined R7 at a lower price point when you consider how much dedicated bird photographers often spend on their gear. If Canon releases an R7 Mark 2 version that addresses rolling shutter in the electronic shutter and vibration in the mechanical shutter (say for about two-grand) I think they will have created a true replacement for the greatly respected Nikon D500.
I'd gladly pay $2500 for an R7 II with an ultrafast stacked sensor. That would eliminate the rolling shutter problems and improve autofocus speed. Another feature I'd like to see but it will be a while in an APSC camera is quad-pixel autofocus. I think the R1 may be the first camera to have that feature. Time will tell.
So much criticism about the R7... When I switched from my 90D to the R7, the gain in particular on the autofocus was such that I could hardly believe it! Of course there is always better, some have fun comparing the R7 with an R5 that's good you can also compare a 100,000 dollar car with a 40,000 dollar car and ask for the same options, the same chassis, the same motor... At 1500 dollars (and even 1400 dollars at the moment) you have 4k60, C LOG 3, autofocus in 100FPS or 120 FPS, pre shooting, 30 FPS, and so many other things! For those who want to form an opinion on the quality of the autofocus and the sharpness of the image, there are enough channels on UA-cam like that of Phil Thach, Wild Alaska and many others who demonstrate on a daily basis that this camera has an excellent autofocus and above all an excellent quality/price ratio!
Good points! Thank you!
I feel Duade’s focusing issues are 100% operator error. It is a best practice to turn off Image Stabilization on the lens whenever you are shooting from a tripod, or a similar stable platform. Duade does not turn it off.
Where are your locked AF point(s)? You should be able to display these, provided the AF system was active when the shutter was fired.
I leave my stabilization on when I'm on a tripod too, at least when shooting birds at low shutter speeds. I'm often moving the tripod based on the position of a constantly moving bird. Even perched ones constantly move so I move the camera for the best composition. Stabilization helps.
I don't have software that displays the focus point though I know some is available. If I did use it the focus point might block me from being able to determine if the eye was critically sharp.
The technology has advanced. There's no longer any reason to turn off image stabilization when using a tripod.
I have a question, often we are shooting alot of pics of one bird, but different angles etc. Wow to choose this best one ?
Also are You using Mechanical or electronic or maybe 1st curtain shutter?
I use electronic shutter. I look through the pictures an pic the one that is sharp and the most artistically pleasing. Thank you!
Thanks for the video. I was very surprised when I saw Duade's video. So far he has rated the R7 very positively. I shoot with a combination of the R7 and my 100-400mm telephoto zoom all the time. Not every photo is sharp, but I see that as completely normal. And that you usually only show the best photos is fine too, who wouldn't? I just don't understand some of the comments.
Thank you!
Hi, I have a question, what firmware version are you using? The 1.3.1? Could it be the firmware?
Thank you
I’m on 1.3.0. I don’t think the 1.3.1 update was autofocus related. Something about the touch screen.
Hi Phil, I would expect any tuber in this field to ONLY be showing their best. Unless it's about mistakes and how to avoid them where it will be explicitly talked about and obvious. I have an R6 and the 100-500 and some times it fails but I think it's the circumstances and conditions. These sort of cameras are fantastic and my rate of keepers is way higher than in the past. I haven't missed a shot yet where I feel I can blame the camera. I enjoy both Duades content and yours. Keep them coming.
What AF settings did you have on the R7?
Case 2, servo.
What program are you using to show these pics?
Lightroom with the left, right and top info collapsed.
Would help to know if your on mechanical or electronic ?
Electronic. I'm on electronic virtually every time I photograph birds. I'll use the mechanical shutter for sports and macro with flash but that's about it.
Are you shooting hand held or tripot
@@Kootchbun tripod
I have never thought you were doing anything wrong in only showing good pics--That is just common sense-- My question ( since I am a neophyte bird photographer) is why the low shutter speed-- Your ISO is pretty low and going to 1/500 to 1/1000 should still be workable-- Your thoughts are welcomed. Thanks
I agree, I could have gone faster without getting my ISO very high in this situation. I like to use slow shutter speeds, that’s just the way I like to shoot. Most bird photographers use higher speeds than I do. You can work out what best for you over time.
Anyone who expects ANY auto focus system to workk flawlessly is barking up the wrong tree, along with anyone would thinks that any UA-camr is going to show you all the shots from there shoot. Let be realistic everyone of us makes mistakes, gets exicted at we are shooting leading to the iso set wrongly and not noticing the shutter speed dropping through the floor !!!!!!!!! Easy done. Anyway thanks Phil for going through a morning shoot with us.
Thank you!
I personally don't use that Eye detection much on the R7.
Usually AF mode to fit the subject. It's very hard to get one out of focus 😊
Interesting, thank you!
When I have had issues similar to what Duade has experienced it is nearly always in bursts taken of a stationary bird (or other animal) when I am holding down the AF-On button (eye focus on my camera). In a burst of six or eight shots a few may be tack, tack sharp and a few others soft. The focus point is on the eye of the unmoving bird in every shot. Don't have the issue when "locked on" to a flying bird. Don't have the issue if I focus with spot focus. As someone pointed out, the whole idea of Servo is that it is constantly refocusing during bursts, and technically we shouldn't be using Servo and tracking (or at least we should take our finger off the AF-On to lock focus) when shooting stationary subjects. Problem is, we are expecting (hoping) to get flight shots when the bird takes off and want the camera to maintain focus. I am fairly thinking the problem may be in settings (and not the camera), and have been experimenting with them. I have managed some improvements, and continue to "play"! There are way too many "me toos" in the comments on Duade's video for it to be just his camera.
The reason people are saying this is the same reason I am after my experience today. I've watched and researched the R7 extensively and watched videos on youtube to no end before pulling the trigger and buying one. The only issue ever brought up in regards to AF was using a sigma or other third party lenses on the R7, short of that every video says its great and an upgrade in every way to our trusty mark ii's. Given that, Im sure you can appreciate our shock when we go to try it out the first time with canon EF lenses and a sigma lens and find both having auto focus issues in a setting where our mark ii would nail it. I got home and uploaded the images and was left very underwhelmed....hop on youtube and put in R7 auto focus issues and low and behold video after video are now emerging of the same people who praised the camera and its autofocus walking those statements back. You cant help but wonder why this is only mentioned in the past 2 weeks when there are months and even full year of praise. Just leaves you frustrated you know?
After shooting with the R8 for several weeks I see that it's autofocus seems stickier and not prone to moving in and out once a subject is acquired. I am able to get beautiful shots with both cameras and I like each of them for their strengths but I do believe the R7 autofocus is a bit more jumpy. I bet it has to do with a slower readout speed and smaller sensor and pixels than the R8.
It certainly makes sense that the faster a sensor reads, the better its autofocus will be. This is another reason those ultra-fast stacked sensors are so good at auto-focus. The r6 Mark II/R8 sensor is one of the fastest non-stacked sensors on the market. So, the specs back up your observations. Interestingly, the a6700 with its 25 millisecond readout speed is almost exactly in the middle of the R7's 32 millisecond speed and the R6 mark II / R8 speed of 14 milliseconds. You would think its performance would be somewhere in the middle but so far it feels about the same as the R7 to me.
I've got the same combo (R7 and 100-500). I use 30 FPS as I like a choice of wing pose and don't mind going through the pictures to select the ones I like (I recently got a Mac and it's so fast to colour code the pictures I want using quick view that it hardly takes time to go through 2k pictures). Anyway, I think duade also uses a higher FPS speed than you and maybe that contributes to the issue. I do suffer from occasional hunting where, even if the bird isn't moving, the camera goes off focus and hunts for a frame or two. Not as bad as duade, but it happens enough to notice it's an issue. I wonder if the slow sensor read out is to blame - the camera has far less time to think about focus and command the lens to move than an R5 when shooting high frame rates (because a lot of time is wasted reading out the sensor). At slower rates, it makes less of an impact as, perhaps, there's enough time to read out the sensor, assess focus and drive the lens. Perhaps build variances in the lens and camera is, with the slow read out, enough to make some combos become a pain to use whilst others get lucky and it works flawlessly. In any case, I utterly love the combo and as you say, for the price, it's fantastic.
Forgot to mention I shoot around 2000th of a second so don't suffer much from motion blur and I turned off auto level horizon as I read that can cause soft pictures when the sensor rotates part way through read out.
All great points. Going through more pictures than I have to gets old for me quickly. If it doesn’t bother you, the faster speed is often better as you mentioned. Faster shutter speeds are recommended by most wildlife photographers and I totally agree for birds in flight or quick situations. I prefer slow shutter speeds and low ISOs when I can get away with it. I’d recommend that you continue to do what works best for you.
I use auto horizon-levelling most of the time and I haven't had any issues with that. I very rarely get a soft image and even then, it's usually due to something else in the scene stealing the focus.
@@cooloox thanks for info, I heard about the potential issue when the camera first came out (i preordered it just after launch) so maybe it's a non issue for most but I have issues with grip strength (joint problems) so am more prone to camera wobble hence I think it could affect me more than others (ibis already moves around a lot for me).
It was answered by Canon that the problem is the AF is not fast enough when shooting in H+ that’s why it is not correct all the time. That’s probably why cameras in the same pricerange from Sony or Fuji only have 12 FPS max.
Indeed.
I use the same kit, I think a might be getting a little shutter shock
Try the electronic shutter, it helps.
It would be more helpful to use a variety of bird shots in different conditions. My R7 definitely focus jitters ust like Duade´s. However a lot depends on the level of contrast in the image. Just using one bird in the same position is not going to illustrate the problem properly.
Hello Phil I absolutely love your reviews , you cover things so thoroughly it's great .
Let me tell you Phil these R7 camera's are absolutely driving me insane , I've had two cameras one I bought from the store I don't want to name because I had issues with them , trying to return it just when I got the camera it was dead in the box so that camera was problems since day one , okay I took it into Canon they had it for over a week they basically rebuilt it , okay that camera went in 8 times before Canon decided to finally replace it , the one I've had since then is been even more trouble it went in 4 times and it is still at the Canon facility in Newport News , Virginia I had a loaner R7 and it was perfect not a single issue with it and I even asked them if I could keep that one and they said no it is a loaner so Phil maybe you can chime in about the inconsistency of these are seven cameras because personally I think it's disgusting I think Canon should just give me my money back and call today because I am really tired of dealing with the R7 series of cameras that I'll take 20 shots and two of them are in focus and that is it well the loaner I had when I took 20 shots 18 of them or text Sharp so you tell me what would you do thank you Phil .
That is terrible that you have had such a bad experience with two cameras! I suppose I have been lucky. I bought my first R7 and it worked very well and then I clumsily knocked it into a creek and killed it so I immediately bought a second one and it has been good as well. I hope they are able to get your camera working as good as that loaner did.
I have also seen this strange behavior in the M6 Mark II. I think the sensor doesn't have the greatest AF detection. Canon wants to say that it is a different sensor but I seriously doubt it. The 32.5MP sensor has almost identical specs across the board. I also think the R7 uses a similar shutter assembly and that the ibis interacting with the shutter is also contributing to the problem. I think if Canon profiles the shutter shock and implements a compensation mechanism into the ibis, I think the issue can be remedied in firmware. If this isn't the case then Canon will have to completely redesign the sensor and the shutter assembly. So I think a mark II would definitely help. Also, I think the pixel density is also high enough that any excessive movement will add pixel blur. The solution I've seen for this mostly centers around using electronic shutter and doing 30fps bursts and keeping the photos with less rolling shutter as awful as it is. I also think one could test this with an accelerometer attached to the camera to measure it vs other cameras, as most of the time the ibis and sensor assembly is floating with the shutter being directly attached to the body. (edit: I just remembered that the other way you can minimize the shutter shock is if you want mechanical or electronic first curtain you need to shoot above 1/100th of a second on the shutter. I just reread the Canon Community post about it and Jan Weneger tested it and found that out).
Great comment!
I believe that most people are watching UA-cam content on their cellphones while not doing their job so only true photographers have monitors that can view those wonderful megapixels. The only good thing watching the content is that the employees aren't sleeping. ☺
It’s a matter of perspective. If you are comparing the focusing of the R7 to the R3, there is no comparison. But the R7 is great for its price point.
i think Duade's body has a problem and he should return it. our leader of the local birding club who is a really talented photographer had it and he just can't believe what he is getting even with his old EF lenses.
thanks as ever Phill for the effort you put in this video.
btw you and Duade are my favorite you tubers, along with espen hallend.
The R7 does great and doubt anything will get better for what I shoot.
It would be interesting to know it photographing people has been a problem for anyone?
I am confused by supposedly professional photographers reporting their struggles with the R7 AF. I shoot daily on my small holding, with my 400 F5.6 L at shutter speeds of 1000 and up typically. I get more keepers (>80%) compared to my previous 1Diii and 7D. I have noticed some shutter slap blur at shutter speeds below 250. That’s nothing new . Very slight. I prefer shooting with electronic shutter most of the time because the rolling shutter problem is so seldom a problem that I accept that. I shoot birds mostly- 7m up to 60m typically. Yah I don’t know. I shoot in low light, mid day… Can it be that these pro’s are so spoiled by R3’s etc that they cant shoot a portrait without needing killer AF , IBIS and clean iso 640000? I shoot through twigs and grass and that is about the most I have to struggle with the AF - to convince it to find the bird behind the grass and not the grass etc. I dont use back button focus anymore. Just mapped a button to toggle eye detection. All I can think is my R7 did not watch youtube or I am superman? I agree with your viewpoint and experience Phill
Did I miss Phil describe how many frames per second he was shooting? I know @Duade tends to shoot much faster frame rates and higher shutter speeds/lower light. I’d like to see Phil shoot at Duade’s speeds and frame rates before drawing any conclusions.
I used mostly the slowest and in one section, noted in the video, I shot a full buffer at 15 fps.
@@PhilThach sorry I missed the filled buffer comment. Thanks for sharing this, I appreciate it and don’t want to appear critical, but I would still really like to see a closer apples-to-apples comparison with shutter speeds, lighting, etc. (Obviously I’ve been wrestling with this issue myself as have many others- too many in my opinion to be an expected number of soft shots). Also the plugin Duade mentioned can tell you where the autofocus was pointing. I think that’s key data point.
One possibility I shared in Duade’s video - but haven’t had a good chance to prove it out yet. In looking through settings, I noticed that I had "Electronic full-time MF" (under AF, page 6 of settings) set to ON - which allows you to override autofocus with the focus ring on the lens. I noticed when I use the 100-500, handheld at least, when my left hand supports the lens, my finger and thumb are on the zoom, and the focus ring rests EXACTLY on the base of my hand. As I look at it, I'm wondering if the movement of my hand to compose and zoom is moving the focus ring slightly? Or the vibration of the shutter is causing it to move slightly. Either way, I'm turning it off. Food for thought. For those struggling, if it's set it might be worth a try. @PhilThach can you check if you have that enabled? And thank you for following up on this.
For $1,500 bucks. R7 rocks. My R3 (as of this post) doesn't even have Raw preburst like the R7 .. even tho' my humming birds wings look like melting chocolate...but it works.
At 23:24 that hair is very sharp.
My experience with the R7 is that overall the AF system works pretty well, especially under good light. That said, I definitely notice that it can drop critical focus for a few frames before regaining it. It's almost like the lens is pumping focus because in a burst I often see a drift when I review at 100 percent. That said, I'm still using an adapted EF 600mm f4 prime so maybe it'll be more consistent when I upgrade to the RF lens. Another issue a lot of people overlook with the R7 is that it's a very unforgiving sensor. Pixel pitch is tiny so your technique has to be good. I also crank up my shutter speed a bit compared to when I'm using a full frame body - it seems to help! Thanks for the video.
Everyone is talking about AI to do their pics that are sharp reducing the time in viewing the pics individually and having less time consuming in creating content for clients or UA-cam or whatever you produce. Are you thinking about this?
Tell me more about this please! Is it a program?
@@tatesue ua-cam.com/video/lOhWxGglSV0/v-deo.html&pp=ygVXYmVzdCBhaSBwcm9ncmFtIHRoYXQgY2FuIHNpZnQgdGhyb3VnaCB5b3VyIHBpY3R1cmUgZmlsZXMgYW5kIHNlbGVjdCB0aGUgYmVzdCBvZiB0aGUgbG90. The Art of Photography is one of my favorite UA-camrs and I will add another one in the next reply.
@@tatesue ua-cam.com/video/DJnEeRv15kA/v-deo.html I like the way she is organizing in this video. I hope these two help answering your question. I hear a lot of complaints from Wedding and Wildlife photographers complaining all of the pics that they took and how hard it was to sift through them. I am curious myself and that is why i asked the question to Phil. Cheers!
@@randallbrander8157 this was about photo mechanics…Nothing to do with AI?
@@tatesue Katelyn James was organization and the first one you set up what you like and then let it run. That is one program Imagen AI which I found interesting That Art of Photography tried and I was thinking about the process which make sense. The other one by Katelyn James is using subfolders and the other one by Art of Photography is for the Imagen AI which you set up the parameters and it helps the process. Those are only two examples that I have viewed on UA-cam. I asked Phil if he ever did any AI software to speed up his performance basically. I am interested in this process. I hope this answer clarifies my position. We could google for AI software to see how many photographers have used this type of software. Just a thought. BTW What is your favorite camera and lens selection right now? I am more into video and like using different cameras all of the time. I like watching Phil's videos because of his storytelling and content which I think is excellent. Cheers!
Thanks for sharing your results. From your finch sequences I don't think you're apples to apples with Duade's situation? I see no position variation from shot to shot which makes me think the camera is locked down rather than handheld, and you're a little closer than typical based on the size of the bird in the frame. I see the exact same thing he does when handholding at 500mm, 1/1000, 30 FPS e-shutter on wild birds at typical distances. It slips in and out of focus over a sequence of images where the eye detect has a perfect lock on the eye. (You can see the auto-focus point in the Canon software). Less than half are close to sharp. Maybe 25% are tack sharp. The rest are total garbage. This is after filtering out all the turned heads, missed focus, bad light, and so on. Just talking about potential keepers spoiled. (But that 25% still makes it the best camera I've ever owned.) So I think you're misunderstanding his point a bit--he's saying that the actual focus frequently is not where the autofocus point is, and that doesn't happen on R5 and R6 in similar conditions.
Exactly! This is my experience. I thought it was me, but it turns out many others have the same problem. Plus the company I bought it from has confirmed the same. There is a problem. I have reported to Canon and it being escalated. Anyone who is experiencing the same should report the issue to Canon. DPP shows that the in-focus af points are not. For me, the plane of focus lies behind.
I agree, probably not apples to apples.
I would have totally expected I'd have re[plied to this vid, but its not coming yup to the top when I opened it ?
In any case, after using the R7 for almost 2 yrs now (I have two of them) and taking somewhere around 300K shots with them, now more than ever, I just have to say how much I love / hate this camera :) lol Yes, the AF and EAF kind of sucks. Its probably less sticky than any of the full frame models. But if you need the extra reach, what are you going to do ?
I don't feel like the R7 is "the best choice" I feel like its "my only choice".
Still no regrets of selling my R5. I mean, if I could have kept it, and gotten the two R7's too, sure. I mean, 5% of the time I could use the R5 in low light, when I could get close enough. But the rest of the time, I'd still have no choice but to use my R7's.
Great comment. 👍
Unlike Duade - as much as I respect his criticisms - you have been using a tripod for your tests it seems. And consequently you didn't have to rely on your hand holding steadiness and thus got more reliable results...
just bought one and whole set filters from Kase store. Want to find more skill!
For sure the hair was sharp. 😁
Post only what you want to post.
I don’t see any reason at all to question your integrity. And no one posts the bad shots! Nor should you need to.
Having said that, the r7, for me, is well below the capability of the r5, at least for the way I use it. All the shots you show in this video are simple shots. The bird is just sitting there. That’s not really a challenge at all. You’re shooting a such slow shutter speeds that your ISO is 100! I just don’t shoot that way and this is easy shooting.
Try some flying birds or try to get them hopping from place to place and take some high shutter-speed shots, shots where a high shutter speed is needed to freeze the motion. I’ve had the r7 just miss fast moving birds where i’m confident that the r5 would have gotten me the shot. It just doesn’t track and hold like the r5 does. Heck, it’s not in the same league, even. Not to say you cannot bag some shots, though, but you will need to take a lot of shots to ensure you bring home some keepers.
Based on what you show in this video, I would not say this is outstanding. It passed this test no doubt, but this is simple shooting. In order to have a meaningful discussion, we need to get on the same page. I agree that no camera is perfect, though, and all cameras are going to miss some shots. And I even agree that for $1500, the r7 is a great buy. But it is not my preferred camera to use for birding, because it can’t handle action shooting at very well, at least compared to the r5/r6.
Who is expecting every single shot to be a keeper? I’m not sure why you mention that or what the context is of this discussion. Or maybe Daude is judging based on more challenging subjects. And of course not every single shot is going to be perfect, that is never the case. This video does not show to me that the r7 is dynamite! :). I still like it though, i just wish canon had put more into it, but I think they toned it down to match that $1500 price. You want better performance, pay up!!!
I was having focus issues with my R7, it wasn't the camera, it was me... Sounds like a hater. Everyone takes bad photos, especially with digital cameras. I want to see your best, not the trash. Keepers only for me...
Wait boys.... 2 seconds later.... Wow.. I took 57 wonderful photos.... dang 4 of them are slightly Blurry.... hand me my 9mm; let me put this camera out of it's misery boys.
I don’t know why you would feel compelled to show your “not so good” images…. Nobody does unless they are demonstrating the wrong way vs. the right way. I did see that your demo was with a tripod? Maybe the keeper rate would go down hand held? I love my R7 ❤️ Just show us your best shots and I’m sure that 99% of us will be happy with seeing them 😀
Thank you, Tate!
No camera is perfect! You’re never going to get every photo sharp! Bursts work best for me. I can usually get at least 1 good shot out of the bunch.
I think that is the best strategy.