This is exciting and a necessary step to making large ships more fun. Now we need NPC crew because maintaining a human crew is going to be a major pain and/or impossible depending on the mission. I doubt many people want to sit in a Carrack indefinitely while the captain checks out whatever interests him while actively avoiding any combat action. And oh, wife's home, have to go cook dinner, sorry everyone else lol.
Yeah, the main issue here is you can only find so many players to crew these ships. Not only is the playerbase limited, but i imagine there aren't that many people who wanna dedicate their role to repair components, compared to flying their own fighters and such Sure there are people who wanna do it, but then again, there are only so many. And thats just the players, finding someone who are available when you are, in your timezone is a whole different can of worms
I think that feature is coming, slowly, but surely. I just noticed in a recent patch that several NPCs, like at the New Deal counters, you can interact with them and there's a prompt for "do you have any work for me?" Seems we will be able to pick up jobs from random NPCs in the future just by asking and this may be a mechanic for future recruiting of NPCs like in bars and other locations.
@joelellis7035 That's probably accurate, but there's a tremendous gap, (like a 'that's a whole different game' size gap), between getting a mission from an npc and hiring an npc to run around your ship playing engineer. I would think some of the major mechanics for NPC crew would have to be in Squadron 42 though.
I honestly think adding NPC crews would take away from the realism of the game. The camaraderie of having a tight knit crew sounds more exciting than ordering some AI bot to do the job. Just my opinion. 👍
I’m certain with all this happening, big ships are going to be getting a pretty huge glow up regarding their weaponry and other offensive/defensive components to justify the hassle of using them.
@bradwiggins2332 Agreed. Ideally 5 players in a capital ship should generally be a pretty good match for 5 players attacking them in small ships, unless those small ships are a good mix of counters for large vessels, like the Ares. Will be a very difficult thing to balance in the long term.
@@bradwiggins2332 I mean certain features about capital/large ships already sound great; like the Privateer and the Merchantman with it's inbuilt shops, the Idris with it's railgun, the Polaris with it's Size 10 torpedos. All this + the fact that these ships will most likely always have escort fighters in their hangars in case of emergencies.
The armor system intended for the game will help a lot with this. Smaller weapons will do significantly less damage to a ship - or fail to do any entirely - because they can't penetrate the armor or lose most of their energy from their impact with the armor. The problem in the current game is that ANY weapon can project its full dps onto even the largest ships, so all that matters is to put out more dps than the enemy has shield regeneration, at which point its just a matter of burning down the total health pool. In the future, with armor, something like an Idris will have very little to fear from most fighters with S1 to even S4 guns. Large/capital armor, especially on military vessels, will make them a problem for fighters not explicitly armed to deal with that level of armor. Given ships like the Perseus and Ares fighters that are intended to combat large/capital ships have S7 weapons, it seems that S7 is really the intended weapon size for combating military sub-caps and small capital ships. So even S5s and S6s will probably be more designed for lightly armored large subcaps or medium subcaps.
For me it all comes down to, how well they tune the engineering mechanics. If there is too much annoying micro management to be done during a battle, i fear that large ships will become too tedious to fly. It remains to be seen how the shield and armor systems will change the way large ships perform in combat.
The best thing they can honestly do is to get the system out there, CIG is very responsive to the community and once the community can try it out, adjustment can be made so that it hits the sweetspot in the middle between annoying and fun.
Funnily enough the big critisism of the hammerhead is its lack of doors near the cargo ramp. The no airlock oxygen just stays in has annoyed me long enough
Limited by how many people it can support in the whole ship yes but repressurising a room to breathable levels will just take longer. Nuclear Submarines have limited Oxygen (The reactor can make oxygen through Electrolysis) but that may not be fast enough so they can use Oxygen Candles to increase Oxygen levels quickly. CO2 Scrubbers keep the air breathable. Too much CO2 is toxic. So in the case of fires, venting atmo would be normal because the crew will need to wear masks anyway. due to smoke and toxic fumes. @@Razumen
@@Max_Flashheart Masks that filter air aren't the same thing as oxygen masks. And you're going to run out of oxygen quickly if you're constantly venting the ship. Not to mention you can't just vent to a vacuum when people aren't wearing spacesuits. Venting atmosphere every time you're in combat is not sustainable and I hope that the game punishes players that abuse it.
Venting is a emergency scenario (Fire/Combat Red Alert, Battle Stations etc) can also include removing and compressing atmo to tanks. By masks I mean flight suit helmets in game. For example in The Expanse when entering combat they would all be in flight suits and vent the atmo to avoid issues with hull breaches and fires@@Razumen like this one ua-cam.com/video/MxiTqr9RXIc/v-deo.htmlsi=iuoDZ_dnQvwWFvp or ua-cam.com/video/XuqEX1PnG9I/v-deo.htmlsi=Csv-06G5IB9ApB54 just a good excuse to watch some cool space battles that are based on more realistic space combat scenarios.
I’m glad they are giving players more reasons to join an org or to play in groups, but I really hope they are working on npc/AI crew options for those of us who would rather play solo. Like a solo player can higher an AI crew but the trade off is that they might not be as efficient as a full on player filled crew, but at least it won’t cut off the majority of the player base from accessing these larger ships.
This is exactly what I want, with the possible addition of varying degrees of skill between different available AI crew, which of course you’d have to pay more to hire and possibly travel to farther/more dangerous places to find. CIG can add tons of interactions with the economy system here, and economy really is what drives games like this in the end.
The problem with this is instead of some groups flying big ships and solo players flying smaller ships - you run the risk of ending up with everyone flying an AI crewed ship that is as big as they can afford. And nobody flying small ships.
to be fair - they do need to implement multiecrew functionality first. Then implement functional NPCs beyond the riff raff nonsense currently in game. And the computer blade implementation will come last after they get the component system in place and working and NPC crew functionality added. EVERYBODY HOLD ON - WE'RE STILL ANOTHER 10+ YEARS OUT FOR ANYTHING RESEMBLING A POLISHED GAME.
My experience in multiply games is that sometimes other players are not very efficient as they should be. I've had drunk players ruin and make it harder to get through raids. lol
I appreciate your storytelling by getting people to roleplay as engineers and the gameplay in the hammerhead. Great job and it seemed seamless and was informative even with no gameplay
Thank you! It was really time consuming but ultimately worth it. We also has a good laugh collecting some of the footage that didn't make it in, I'll need to add it in somewhere else.
but that is just it, to make the game interesting, you have to get people to ROLEPLAY and CREATE the game loop, Because the game is so devoid of actual interesting loops, or is still missing the engineer loop, that streamers like this have to FAKE it to generate hype. it's ridiculous, this game needs to stand on it's own merits, and present something compelling, not have unofficial roleplay events hosted by streamers to make it compelling.
The biggest ship i own currently is an aquila. I also have a c1 and a zeus in my fleet. I chose these ships for their more mid sized sizes. I chose the aquila for its versatility. I chose the zeus es for future exploration (which i can also use the aquila for but i think the zeus may become more "economical"), and i the the c1 as my current daily runner, and am looking for one or two dedicated fighters, though i prefer multirole ships, hence why i bough the ships i have. Im hoping that ill still be able to fly my connie solo as though i do have friends who play games... none are interested in star citizen.
All very cool but I’m really worried they will push these kind of things too far and destroy this great game doing so. There are enough unpleasant things and work to do in real life; I don’t want to do the same stuff in a game. I’m worried it might end up like this: I have some (rare) free time after work so I log in to have some fun. I notice I’m dehydrated, hungry and smelly. I go find some food and drink, use it, go to the toilet, take a shower (why not implement doing the laundry while you’re at it…:p). I notice I still need to refuel and rearm. Then I want to finally fly out and have some fun, but I notice I need to repair or replace some components first. After an hour after doing all this crap I’m like “yaaay finally time for some bounty hunting”, when I notice the clock and see my gaming time has past. And I’m not even flying the ship at that point. At least in real life I can enjoy food or a drink, a shower, even a shit; in game it’s just an annoying waste of time. And having to fix and maintain stuff in real life is already enough. And I like realism, but a game is most of all supposed to be fun. And it’s that part that I’m worried about.
The devs literally said these changes would NOT make flying a large ship harder provided the ship is in good condition. They said this gameplay would make those ships more survivable and effective if you paid attention to these mechanics. So it's not going to get worse. If you don't want to maintain stuff yourself, just take it to the shop for repairs periodically :)
@@lugga_oO “much more productive”? Dude what the heck are you on about? Why would anyone want to spend two days for just of 2 hours of fucking entertainment? If someone wants productivity they wouldn’t play this damn game anyways.
Repairing ships once docked should be a very easy and automated process handled by the station crew, I don't see any reason why it would take an hour. It probably won't be instantaneous, but from a gameplay balancing perspective, repairing doesn't need to take as long when not in or in danger of combat.
ALL HAIL THE ONCOMING SHITTING GAME PLAY LOOP: Hold up everybody we have to stop the fight for 15 minutes so my character can goto the can. Oh damn I forgot to stock TP !!!!!
This feature is an make or break situation completely depending on when we will finaly get AI crew and how well AI crew will be able to handle the tasks. They always said that solo players will be able to fly any ship with ai crew and automation server blades for remote turrets for example, but if they take ages to finaly allow us to hire AI or if they break all the time (not responding, being stuck somewhere etc) it is only going to be a pain. In general I like the idea of having actual multicrew gameplay outside being bored to death inside turrets if nothing ever happens during flight but it shouldn't be forced onto people either by not delivering AI in time or by making them far less viable and reliable than player crews since not everyone has an infinite supply of friends that actually play star citizen and have time for it at the exact same time as everyone else in the group.
The issue is they cannot get NPC crew to work with the servers (it was mentioned some months back) sohips NPC crew has been parked for now. So they ar focusing on the gameplay for players. Personally I cannot see AI crew handling the engineering gameplay. There has to be balance and you cannot have an AI crew performing better than a player crew. Also as you said NPC crew will break as ping is a thing! Personally I cannot see NPC's ever being a thing as people believe they will be. A case of CIG making this up as they go along tbh and testing the water. Saying AI crew will be a thing when they haven't even tested it in a fully PU environment....time will tell
No doubt, I see AI underperforming compared to a mid player crew, but it's fairly safe to say they will have it competent enough to allow solos to at least be fodder for fully crewed ships so there is simply more interactions. That said, I won't be surprised when a single, well disciplined and exemplary captain can also take on and dominate a middling player crew. There is a lot to be said about fleet ops and complex squadron compositions as well, alongside the multitudes of loadouts ships will be found in at different economic levels and such... Particularly in unsettled systems like Pyro, where you'll have to cooperate to stay, operating refineries and such. The dream is alive and well, I can't wait to see those with the time, effort and resources, excel and show us what's actually possible, RP or not.
Never planned on getting a big ship. Knew I wouldn't be able to handle one myself. My biggest ship is a Spirit. Probably the largest I'll be able to handle myself.
As many have said, The biggest drawback on big ships is getting players to man your turrets etc. Most players prefer to fly their own ships so untill ai crews become viable, the bigger ships only appeal to big orgs. Sure, There are those who just want to fly to a ship meet in something big to say "look what I have", The same ones that want to talk in local about how great their computer specs are etc. Seems that AI crews are a ways off but we can hope.
This makes me glad that I own smaller ships. I play games largely to get *away* from dealing with people, lol. I can get to the components on my Spirit.
This is where the realism and gameplay balance needs to come into focus to be successful. Keep in mind the smallest military naval vessels have a hundred sailors or more aboard to keep a military grade system functioning properly and effective in battle. I see this as requiring an actual captain to actually train the crew on the platform either way. IDK how much people want to apply rigorous discipline to operating a toy vessel in a "game" but I do like the fact that big ships are no longer just DPS tanks with full functionality until they go boom. But can lose capability and malfunction but not be destroyed...
I'm all up for realism and gameplay balance, but you can't tell me it's realistic that these ships that have to traverse the most hostile environment known to mane (space) and do battle in it; don't even have BASIC FIRE SUPRESSION SYSTEMS that we have IRL in just static buildings, even auto closing doors to prevent backdraft or slowing down the spread of fire. This is my biggest gripe with these engineering changes; so many basic things the player are required to do in a future setting which are already solved IRL that just seems like busywork for the player. Like "can't wear spacesuits all time cause oxygen" every ship has an atmosphere inside already as is; suit can use that, visor can go down automatically if oxygen vents from the atmosphere etc. Again, just busywork excuse for the player.
oh boy... i cannot wait to finish my 40 hour work week to come home and work on my ships for 6 hours on the friday so i can play with my friends on saturday only to find out that someone in the group didnt maintain there ship so we have to waste all day fixing there ship so we can leave port and have the ships status set to "location unknown" by some funky server shit
I mean that sounds good and all... but i think the "fighting" has to go on A LOT longer than it currently does. Because if it's over in a minute or 2, maybe 3, why even bother at all? So ships would have to be MUCH more sturdy, making fights between 2 equal (big) ships last something like 10 minutes or so, minimum.
Definitely, but I think this is also geared towards making big ships last much longer against small ones, because the big ships can repair themselves in the field, the small ones can't. In a big battle between two big ships, I can definitely see battles taking longer, but still being over much faster than against multiple smaller ones, because the bigger enemy ship would be able to deliver much more damage over time that it would overwhelm any engineering crew.
4:37 I'm wondering what's burning there? From a realism viewpoint It's probably all metal plates and fire-resistant materials in the ship. But it looks more like ships in SC are made then of especially easy to catch fire materials.
i cant tell you whats burning - but i do know they have a voxel based fire sim (that you are seeing in action) and it takes into account fuel source, ignition source, oxygen levels..etc. - kind of like.. u know.. a vehicle on fire. Never seen a ship, airplane, spacecraft, car, submarine, boat or any kind of vehicle on fire b4? - even ones made of steel?..see.. the steel might not be on fire..but there are non steel items inside. @@LordCritish
I do like the idea of bigger ships needing a crew in order to fly. I don’t wanna deal with players so the day we have an AI crew I’ll have to stick to my c1 spirit
@legogutt2000 you will more than likely be able to fly bigger ships solo albeit way more difficult as it is now. As long as you keep up with maintenance and dont get caught in combat, youll be ok probably. Basically just taking a huge risk without crew/ai
AI crew will make it easier. Also not all players in SC are going to be skilled PVPers 😆. Even those who think they are really aren't. So upgrading your weapons, leveling up your NPC gunners as high as possible, have a pretty good NPC pilot and You play Captian and Engineer at the sametime a long with maybe a NPC engineer or you take one of the turrets. Trust me I bet 80% of players who play this game would still not be able to handle the right NPC crew setup in a Carrack or Hammer head.
@@lexsdragon1554 THE PROBLEM IS that CIG has consistently marketed all ships INLCUDING The Jav / Idris / Kraken to all players as if they could solo these capital ships. While discussing multicrew ships/roles during dev talks. None of which is in the marketing materials or promotions. So CIGF is fine with selling huge ships to players under the guiseof solo game play BUT refuses to clarify the distinction so they get your money even if that large fancy ship you bought for solo play ends up sitting on a shelf. At a point CIG will be forced into 1 of 2 options either restrict large ship sales to something like Orgs Only and refund any player that bought into the solo game play hype they shvoel out in their marketing OR retain the cash and make heavy changes to the code base to allow solo players to manage a full on Idris with little to no downside. CIG Marketing DOES NOT Match What Their Development States (read False Advertising).
I am personally more concerned than excited. Hopefully most of this won't be implemented before it can be implemented together with NPC crew, because while it's great to add content that you can optionally engage in if you find it fun, making it mandatory without some sort of in-game workaround for "opting out" of the gameplay loop just turns into some bizarre fetishizing of obstacles-to-having-fun. As an example; Not everyone who plays a spaceship simulator enjoys first-person shooter gameplay, but thankfully bunker missions etc. that focus on it are just one kind of gameplay loop out of many.
@@Razumen Why? I want to pilot the big ship. How many people do you know that can coordinate 8+ people and convince them to fly around with them on their big ship for a few hours with their only job being "sit around until things break". The only reason people do that in real life is because they are paid real money to do it. If the system makes it impossible for solo players (the majority of the game base) to actually use larger ships, then it will kill the game.
Morphologis: You won't be able to fly ships alone. Solo big ships is a thing of the past. CIG: We want to facilitate solo players. You will be able to fly any ship solo. What is with people in Star Citizen and salivating over solo players not being able to use the ships they played for? Do you honestly think that any time anyone ever wants to take out anything larger than a single seater ship, they are going to need multiple actual people to do it? That sounds horrifying, of so. Do most working adults have time to get groups together every single time they want to play the game? This is nonsense. Facilitating multicrew doesn't mean always locking off solo play.
I love the idea I really do. It makes multiplayer fun and viable, and I understand that CIG intended this game to be a group game. However, if they implement this before they have the AI setup to help solo players, they will effectively kill a majority of their solo-player gamers. That would put 80% of their ships out of viable play for solo players. And what would we have to work towards? All that money would go to just parts. No need to save up for any of the 2~3 person crew ships if I can’t do anything with them. It will depend on the level they integrate this at and the RNG factor. I’m not looking to own/fly an 890J or Carrack solo, but if even the 2-3 crew ships become too much for just one person, they will have ruined the game for me and probably many other solo players just looking for a fun, semi-relaxing open world space sim experience.
the only people this would effect are idiots who thought they could solo large ships in the first place despite this system being know from the beginning. sure we didnt know the specifics of the literal mechanics, but the ships have a minimum recommended crew spec for a reason and weve always know that large ships would REQUIRE a crew to operate correctly. and the things you have to work towards is reputation and bug testing because you literally paid to be a bug tester stop trying to sweat like this is a competitive title with rewards on the line. if you want a large ship, get a crew.
@@thegeneral1955 thats what we wanted from the beginning. realism. its always been advertised as a space sim. they say in the dev reports all the time to "make it as real as possible then pull it back just enough to make it fun." if you want arcade space game then play Elite: Dangerous. its also a fun game if youre ok with the devs being quite a bit lazy and overcharging for basic game mechanics. want to land on a planet? thats a DLC and the planets are basically empty. enjoy.
@@Calibrumm The crews have always been a you CAN have 5-6 people crew this ship with you. Not that you are FORCED. If that was the case, they would not be adding AI crew men, so they clearly intend for large ships to be used by solo players. Also, you're telling me that regularly, you can coordinate a group of anywhere up to 10 people to sit around on your ship doing maintence work for several hours a day. What happens if you want to play and they can't? What happens when they inevitably crash out during a time they need to do something important? What happens if they decide they want to fly their own ships? Suck it up and not use the big ship you spent days/weeks of grinding for? Fuck that. This is a bad opinion. Most of the player base is solo players and part of the fun is being able to fly these massive ships. Engineering is a good idea, but it has to release in conjunction with AI players or be much less involved than it sounds, or it will kill the game. Realism is fine, but if you're gonna go for full realism, everytime you die you should have to make a new character, and buy your ship again. Make the travel time from your apartment to the ship, which can take 5 minutes, an extra 25, have to go through customs, have taxes, etc.
Thank you for explaining the upcoming changes in a way that's allowed me to drop my extreme worry about the larger ships I've bought as a primarily solo player. I think these changes are extremely fair and honestly needed for larger ships to truly have a purpose in the verse. Knowledge is the death of fear. o7
I definitely feel like you have a good perspective on this. It’s not going to affect most people who use big ships now, but it is definitely necessary for large ship balance down the line. A single person shouldn’t be able to solo fly a ship that can take down fleets of players.
@@Morphologislarge ships tend to use turrets instead of pilot controlled weapons also small ships and vehicles use the same component and node system in the engineering clip they maintained a fury and replaced components so it kinda applies to all ships and not just large size 1,2 can be replaced in space 2,3 needed ports so even fighters might need someone to fly a new powerplant to them while a large ship might need towing to port for the same damage i think most people forget vehicles like the storm also use the same system and needs to be maintained
This also adds a lot of unexpected value to largish ships that still have size 2 components... Not the strongest ship for its size, but convenient and versatile.
I assume you are talking about the "medium" class of ships. Currently the Drake Cutlass series, MISC Freelancer series, Crusader Spirit series, and RSI Zeus Mk2 series fall into this class. I'm not sure about component size but the ARGO RAFT and Drake Vulture might fall into this as well. I know the MSR has two size 2 shields and would probably fall into the upper end simply because it has the speed to outrun most engagements. At the extreme bottom end would maybe be the C.O. Nomad?
None of it was unexpected. Not sure why people keep saying this crap - unless you haven't bothered keeping up with any part of the development at all in the last decade. CIG said this would be a thing back at the beginning and have repeated it over and over and over again for years.
I think what SC needs are decent carriers like a Bebop, Battlestar or Protoss carrier. At the moment I don't see the advantage in most of the mult crew ships when each crew member could be more versatile and effective in their own ships. This way all the orgs could at least have a base of operations for their players to rally about and socialise in.
Give me Bebop! I'd be okay with it specializing in carting snubs around with an exploration focus (plus an air-carrier style launch system would be pretty sweet, tho wholly unnecessary)
@mryellow6918 true yea there's that, it'd be nice to have one that's a bit more "homestead" ish. Like for a crew of 6 or so, specialized in exploring, especially planet-side. I don't have enough friends for a Kraken lol
This is why I have no ships that will require more than 4/5 people. And always have a few solo ships. Still looking forward to working on one of these larger ships though.
I have a feeling, that at some point we will get some form of a contract or org based lobby system, so that other players can teleport into the beds of multicrew ships. If someone in the org asks for a crew, his friends who are online can just spontainiously log out in the bed of a ship or station and then relog into an empty bed of the org members multicrew ship. The same could be possible with contracts. You set of an offer for some crew positions and other random players can teleport into that role from any position in the verse. After finishing the session, you get transported back to your old position via bed logging. This way multicrew will be possible for everybody without the need for extensive friend lists and setup times. If you feel like ship scrapping today, just jump into an listed open position on a reclaimer for two hours, make some money, and then teleport back wo your own ship and position. CIG would have to put in some restrictions like only allowing to teleport into landed ships with a free bed or at least ships out of combat but it would be a great addition to the game and encourage teamplay. If you look at other lobby based games, everyone is fine with "having to" play cooperative, because the setup time is as quick as playing solo.
You'd seriously log in for several hours just to poke at an engineering station and do literally nothing else in a video game? Do you also like watching how far trees move each day? To each their own I guess.
lol yeah I was going to say the same. Hopefully the complexity doesn’t scale much higher than Baro, it does a good job of not being too complex to interact with for maintaining status quo while still allowing experts to do some crazy involved stuff. Also hopefully the component decay rate is a lot lower than baro 😂
@@ShitzGiggles Yeah I hope that's the result. Cruising around Stanton and engagements that result in not taking much hull damage in PvE shouldn't force most solo players out of the mid-size ships, but long-term self-sufficiency in Pyro and whatever might come next or taking some punishment in PvP should require a bit of teamwork to keep the big ships operational.
This is like if Grand Turismo or Forza required a dozen players to actually maintance your Race Car during and after each race. They're just adding a HUGE hurdle to using large ships, adding pointless complication to gameplay, and increasing development time. I'm genuinely sad about this.
Next they'll announce even more tedium; all hands on deck to clean and scrub the ship, make up the racks, laundry, space bugs on the windshield you'll have to scrape off, tears in your spacesuit to you'll need to hem up.
I am excited for these changes HOWEVER. I have major concern for non-military ships AKA BMM, etc. These ships are meant for cargo hauling or selling goods. Given that more often than not they won’t be engaging in any fighting it would be hard to have other players engaged in doing engineering on these ships, hence why I feel that AI needs to be introduced for those kinds of ships. Where AI on military ships may not be as efficient at their jobs given the constant danger of battle.
People only ever seem to talk about big ships in terms of combat ability. I'm almost positive that large/capital civilian ships will fly just fine solo. If you have to get up from the pilots seat to do engineering, then that should be possible in non-combat situations.
BMM is a bad example since it's a generation ship equipped with more weaponry than a typical cargo ship has. and much more capable of defending itself. It also contains a fighter bay that generates a seconary target.
Ooooooh boy theres a lot hanging on the implementation there. Imagine you got your buddys into like a hammerhead and everybodys having fun in the turrets but one guy must point the multitool at broken components. God nobody wants to do that :D
The main issue I see with this is how long until all of the ships actually get the upgrades? Very few are up to Gold Standard. Example being Carrack still has no light switches etc. I love that ship, but 80% of it does nothing yet.
i have never seen anyone playing in a group of more than maybe 3 so I'm sure not being able to use the big fancy ships they are used to will go over great in a 1.5 decade long in development game. this will need a ton of balance to make having a crew be a buff and not just not having a crew feel like a hindrance. may be neat if it can make a big combat sip fight longer, or a cargo ship operate farther with less stops, but the ship stile needs to be able to fight, or travel to the same places with a single pilot that's just willing to spend a little more time in harbor prepping.
You just found out multi crew ships would need multiple players to run effectively? - or you already knew this was coming for years, and they have been working on it for years, and posting the schedules of the teams working on this for years? ..xd
When I saw these ship fires, venting atmosphere came to mind as a quick way to extinguish them, I wonder how CGI is going to balance that. Cause combat ships during combat should have all members wearing helmets in case of a hull breach during a firefight, so the fire mechanics are ... eh... I dunno
In video he stated that it was planned that o2 supply is a limited resource and running out after venting too many times could be a real problem. Edit:imo this could make just running o2 pens and leaving life support off entirely to save money on repairs could be the meta with how cheap and plentiful they are.
Let's hope this turns out well. The first iteration of anything has historically been pretty wonky and large ships already suffer from having the same crew in smaller ships being as effective if not better. Industrial ships seem to be made even worse in combat and they weren't exactly great to begin with. Escaping drains shields and even lower durability.
I have mixed feeling when it comes to engineering... on one hand it seems like a good way to man the large ships, on the other I'm a little worried for small ships like that are for 1-2 ppl as they have components but there is no way 1 person can manage that. Fighters are one group, but what about Nomad or Cutty which are often used by 1 person and there is no way to keep dodging attacks trying to flee and deal with engineering problems.
Same here. I absolutely think the engineering gameplay will be the tool to keep large ships from being solo combat capable. But I can also see some serious tedium installed on 2-3 man ships that I don't think anyone wants.
I mostly play alone and like it that way. If they make it where my 1-2 person ships become basically impossible to survive a fight on your own I’ll be rather mad. How tf are you supposed to fight or escape while putting out fires and repairing shit?
This is the system that was always replacing health points. Now instead of your ship exploding at 0, if they hit critical components your ship is instead disabled.
Very excited for this! I’ve noticed a lot of players are more willing to man a turret or try bigger ships lately. People are realizing they gotta work together and get crews on this ships in the near future. Also glad solo pilots can still fly solo if they choose, win win
Honestly, I'm a sucker for crew gameplay, and this is a big thing I've been looking forward to. I want to be that guy down in Engineering yelling about how I'm "givin' her all she's got, Captain!" Or the copilot, handling power distribution and controlling missiles, or the captain overseeing the helmsman and giving orders to the rest of the crew. Stuff like that, which not a whole lot of games really offer unfortunately, so I'm really excited to see this get brought in!
true about the solo pilots but at the same time, a player should not be 100% cut off from a large section of the game if they are solo.. I have friends who play but not everyday.. i shouldnt have to find a new crew everyday just to get something accomplished. For instance, in a mole or a corsair or something midsized..
While I understand that itll be less efficient and more difficult to solo a multi-crew ship, I dont think its meant to be impossible. The way I understand their engineering, its just that you wont be able to maintain and repair on the go as a solo player. But as someone who plans on doing basic "non-pvp" stuff, I think the added engineering gameplay will actually make it fun and I welcome it. So like after a run or two of cargo hauling, I park my ship in my hangar and take 20-30 minutes to repair my ship, put the components to 100% health, etcetc. I know that if Im attacked, Im prolly screwed, but again, Im not there to fight battles either so either I successfully run away and lick my wounds or I die and thats it.
I hope that you can crew your ships with NPCs even if at reduced capabilties . finding 8 people to play with all the time is not an easy task. I would like to board my 600i for example and feel like i am playing mass effect andromeda on line with npc crew but still capabl;e of bringing aboard a human crew member . it will add to more dynamic game play that always requring everyone to be human.
I'm honestly more curious than excited for these changes. They do look interesting and promising, but I'm especially curious about how CIG will approach the big multicrew vs small fighter combat scenario. I'm happy that they want to make bigger ships more resilient against fighters, but I'm apprehensive about the "small gun vs tank armor" statement that Yogi dropped. I do hope that they will make the big ships not entirely immune to S1 to S4 weapons in order to force groups to utilize specific anti-large ships in their setup, because I fear that this will lead to many capital and sub-capital 2 seaters, just for the benefit of being able to harass and bully newer players without having to fear retaliation.
It is a valid concern but something has to change with the large ships. I shouldn't be able to take out an Avenger Titan and wreck a Hammerhead with it. Likewise I don't feel that I should be able to chase an Idris in an Ion and solo it either. That is my opinion, but I think seeing a large ship like a Hammerhead or and Idris should be something that gives players pause and requires a group to take out. Right now there is no reason to be concerned if a HH shows up, just circle strafe to win. The biggest concern trying to solo an Idris is running out of ammo. But again, this is just my opinion. Also, based on the way the community operates now, if reports came in on global that there was a HH harassing a landing zone people would be on it like flies on shit. At least, anytime that I have been online and someone attempts to lock anything down(like PO) it's like the whole server takes it as a personal challenge and shows up. I imagine the full game will work similarly.
@@darkstar0000000000 Oh, I agree that a single fighter shouldn't be able to take out capital and sub-capital ships. That should simply be impossible. But a whole squadron or wing of fighters should at least have the potential to be able to. I think that without dedicated ships like the Eclipse or the Ares it should take forever and provide the larger ship ample time to remove themselves before any real damage can occur but a Hammerhead shouldn't be able to just sit there without a worry while 12 to 200 Auroras are shooting at it, just because no one of the players had invested into a ship with S7 or bigger weaponry. At some point even a player with the biggest ship available should feel overwhelmed by the sheer amount of incoming fire, rather than being able to park it somewhere and just don't mind all those small ships shooting at it. Or to provide another example, what would prevent a small org of wealthy people to use Hammerheads instead of Hurricanes against a bigger org with just starter ships or with at least limited access to anti-large weaponry for the sheer benefit alone that they are impervious to the small arms fire of the bigger orgs ships? Overwhelm them with so much mass per player that the bigger org is just unable to field enough anti-large weaponry. In reality large sea ships just can't be operated by a too small crew, but in the game this limit doesn't really exist. And all of this is just exacerbated by the fact that at some point those orgs of billionaire kids can just buy enough UEC to command an army of NPCs around each one of them fielding their own Javelin. As I said, I absolutely agree that we need to get away from the light fighter meta and that large ships should be invulnerable to a single light fighter, but at the same time we need to make sure that this correction won't sway entirely to the other side where it'll be more benefitial to field masses of only large ships just because they are impervious to everyone who can't bring a big enough gun.
I can't see how this will be a practical or enjoyable experience for orgs. This will push everyone towards a swarm of small ships unless they balance this in some way. Will players really want to play the engineer role, spending the whole battle staring at a screen and fixing relays?
I had fun playing as an engineer in Guns of Icarus online. A good engineer who could make quick choices about prioritising and be efficient on your crew could really turn a fight around. But that game was group ship vs. group ships, and having more smaller fighters armed to the teeth while being elusive targets wasn't a thing.
I'm looking forward to these changes, and the balance that goes with them. Repairing ships during combat makes me think of SWG, but hopefully far less laggy. It's going to be quite important to have a crew that knows the working of the ship they're in.
@@nahbro3240 Well, like most MMOs, you can't simply jump in and do the toughest dungeon on the first day for all the elite gear. You build up your character over time, and indeed, the more time one has, the quicker that happens. As someone that used to work 12-hour days, 6-days a week, it wasn't easy to get in that gaming time back in the SWG days I mentioned above, and still get enough sleep each night. In SC, if you have an expensive ship, that you put a lot of effort into getting, maintaining, and stocking full of high-end gear, you're going to want someone that's played the game, and knows what they're doing, and for key roles, like pilot, medic and engineer, you're going to want people that specialise in those fields, so you don't all wipe in the first 5-minutes. Luckily, there are a lot of smaller ships that we can learn on first, and get the basics, and find which professions/fields we wish to specialise in. There might not be typical classes in SC, but having experience in given roles will still be just as essential as in a game with classes. As for orgs with too many rules, there are plenty of those already, but then there's also plenty that don't. There are also plenty that specialise, and I suspect that in the future, we'll see more orgs focused on specialisations such as engineer, pilot and such, that hire themselves out for crew, just like we see medic orgs now.
Because of these changes, I am certain that the largest ship I generally want to fly is a Perseus. And I'll be pretty happy with my Perseus. A big ol' simple gunship with shields and heavy armour and a minimal crew. (says it needs 6 but I can see these changes pushing the optimal number up to 8.)
I was always thinking a bit in the line of Star Trek, when i look at the crew number of 6, i see the bare minimum, skeleton crew to operate a ship, then add shifts, so you have something like the Captain, Commander, and then Alpha and Beta shifts xD Then you get closer to the real number of people for optimal flight i'd say, around perhaps 10-12 people, atleast in regards to Bigger ships ^^
I find it hilarious that everything is some sort of gun!! I get why, it’s easier to make a repair gun then to make a repair kit with all new mocap, but still funny. Reminds me of when Homer Simpson gets a gun! Gun (or Beam) Citizen!
This is why I’ve been using my Pledge money to build a fleet of my favorite small/medium ships rather than spending it all on something like an Endeavor or Idris. I predict that once all these systems come online, medium ships will pretty much be the upper limit of what you will be able to comfortably fly solo (including the use of AI blades/crew).
I do not think so. There are a lot of solo players with big ships who would all be really pissed that they spent so much money for nothing. And CIG couldn't excuse themselves because they've said in the past that solo players will also be able to fly large ships with NPC crew just less effectively.
Small ships use the same engineering system with components and nodes so they will need the same engineering even the vehicles as the storm use the same system
Im hyped for all these changes, its vital for the whole space battleship vibe. My expectations are pretty tempered tho, I can't see this coming in 2024. Many large ships dont even have physicalized components, this requires also the maps and master modes to effectively work. And having watched the interview with the engineering team, they really didn't sound like they were very far along.
A cool part about this is that a crew can also kind of get used to a ship, where they know its strenghts and weaknesses and where smth is likely to break or burn; they know they routes and all, adding a bit more of deepness and skill to the experience. However, turrets also have to be manned, so it'll be interesting to see if some ships may get certain buffs or an increased crew capability, since some larger ones (Cat, C2,...) seem to be made to be operated by a rather small crew, considering their size.
I think component classes will become very important. I'm guessing that military --> industrial --> civilian for the level of maintenance required. I'm guessing that if you run civilian components you won't have to do much maintenance other than combat repairs. If you run military you're going to be on those components constantly, but you will get a lot better performance.
If video games learn something after years of being made, it is that beyond 5 members into a group, you can't really be effective without needing a long planning and strong discipline (which mean you can't do it on daily basis and often need days to prepare). I think they will cool it down pretty early with the whole multicrew stuff, because it won't be playable 95% of the time and people still want to be their own captain and fly their own ship. Even more with the whole "physicalized inventory". Will you be ok to be a crew on the ship of a friend, if it mean you let all your ships and most of your belongings behind dozen of minutes if not hours quantum travels ?
I'm on two separate thoughts about this path that is being taken. 1. It's super cool that big ships will indeed require an actual serious crew to operate. I hope that their sheer power makes up for the fact that it's hard to get crew together at the same time to do stuff. 2. I'm autistic and not very good with people; I prefer playing either with close friends or alone. This means that I am highly unlikely to ever be able to use these cool, large ships unless I force myself to be social, which is very uncomfortable and already hard to deal with day-to-day, much less in a game where I want to enjoy myself. I hope that the ability to hire NPCs and employ turret blades come sooner rather than later; I love the idea of managing an AI crew even if they're nowhere near as efficient as players.
Ultimately it's a multiplayer game, player interaction plays a large part of the game itself. Depending on your tolerance for social interaction I'm betting repairing and maintenance will be lighter on interaction on large ships.
Well.... I guess when the update hits, depending on how much impact this change has, I'm gonna melt my Corsair. None of my friends play SC and I rarely do multicrew. The changes make sense and are a great addition for multicrew gameplay, but it forces people who are not great with social skills out of their ship.
Yeah I’m not pleased at the implications this has for solo players. I like playing this game alone and rarely party with anyone. I also love my Corsair and will be pretty mad if I’m forced out of it because it’ll be impossible to manage on your own.
@@hawkzulu5671Why would I? The corsair is not good at pvp, compared to most other ships in the same size class. And smaller, more nimble ships can easily outmaneuver it. I use it mostly for PvE. If I do PvP, it is usually in a light fighter.
we really need to get main tools now. the multi-tool is nice but with all these mechanics + improved salvaging/mining gameplay we really need tools with a main purpose.
THIS. I’m glad they’re dropping some of the hyper-realism and letting the multitool bridge a lot of gaps, but at this point both medical and engineering need their own dedicated tool lines. Having specific tools to go along with specific skills is what sets a medic or engineer apart from the other players and makes them far more valuable to a crew.
im excited to see this coming. But I will be more excited when I can hire NPCs to do the work because when I want to play SC, that doesnt always mean I have a crew of people who are ready to hop in my ship and do what I want to do.
This is why I got more than one capital class ship. It's simply one of the features I'm looking most for since I watch Star Trek or Star Wars or whatever favorite SciFi series/movies you enjoy. As long as there's no combat, there's not much to do. A gunner doesn't need to sit in the turret all day. There's no need to drive the systems at maximum. Most of the time you'll sit in the mess hall. The captain and some of the bridge crew are doing their jobs, nothing out of the ordinary. Suddenly you get raided: a wing of fighters including a torpedo bomber appear: "red alert! All hands to battle stations!" Turret gunners hop into their seats. Your chief engineer is pumping the reactor to maximum. Shields are up and ready. Weapon capacitors are charged. Let them come. You're just an engineer, responsible for the starboard section of your ship. Incoming fire, shields are holding. Nothing serious. Suddenly an explosion. Lights go dark, gravity fails. Thanks to the drill you're in your space suit already and magnetic boots are now a requirement. A nearby monitor gives you an idea what did happen: neighboring section got hit by something massive. "Torpedo", you guess. The door leading to that section won't open. You look through the window of the door and ... half of the room is missing. There is no fire. No one is in there. Just a massive hole, blackened walls and sparks of a dying circuit. Your section lost all power since the power lanes feeding yours had been obliterated. You remember your drill and give report. The chief now tells you to leave your section: nothing can be done there as no other power line is available. You need to go to another section, a fire is raging. The fire extinguisher will be your best friend for the next few minutes. You have no idea if the attackers are still out there and you don't care. If you and your comrades can't put out that fire, you're dead anyways. Half an hour later things are quite again. The ship is still in one piece, more or less. All attackers left, as soon as the torpedo bomber was destroyed. Damage reports indicates two massive hull breaches. Only one of two reactors is still running. Life support is working and for some reason both, engines and Q-Drive, are still intact. The captain decides to limb back home. You have survived. But it was a close call. That's what I want & expect from Star Citizen - even if you're just a lowly grease monkey, you still matter for your ship and your crew.
Maybe Im alone in this but it’s going way beyond the scope Im interested in. Im interested to have fun and not being occupied with tedious tasks and that’s what this will be. Not against repairing things ever so often but this? We have fire suppression systems now but wont in the future? Running around replacing fuses? This confuses me. I agree that things need to be in balance but I don’t think this is the way.
I think CIG just doesn’t really know how much WE are willing to do as far as tedious things are concerned. I don’t think they will make these systems so stringent that it makes solo players put the game down, maybe at first but as the feedback comes in and they see what people do or don’t like they will adjust it accordingly, just like with the recent timers on ships, they increased it too far a few months back and then eased up a little after some updates so i don’t think we gotta worry about the alienation of Solo players, I have faith they will remember us eventually haha.
I've been waiting for these features since they announced them in 2013. If you don't like the gameplay then like with most the physicalized features there are workarounds. In this case regularly pay for your ship's "oil change" and have the NPCs keep your ship pristine.
All that sounds awesome and I'm excited to check it out, but then what's going to happen is the same thing that always happens when I decide to start playing SC again. I will spool up to jump and then push B and nothing will happen and I'll have to turn off my engine, stand up, sit down, turn my engine back on and spool up again and align, repeat the process 5 or 6 times, get to my target finally and then kill it after taking some damage, go to a station to repair and it won't work due to some glitch so I'll have to turn off my engine, go in and store my ship, take it out again and hope that fixes the glitch and likely try that a few times. You get the idea. Expanding content like this is great and keeps me coming back, but I wish they would put some focus on fixing the basic issues that have been around forever and make me want to stop playing out of frustration in the first place.
I doubt you will find players for that often, if any really. If you wanna play an engineer there are better games for that and being tied to the captain is terrible for single player fun, you may be able to get a crew together for PvP events if these ships are worth it but I highly doubt that will even be the case. Honestly while I find the idea cool, the game won't be much fun for people who dedicate their time to these kinds of roles as you are completely dependent on other players for your fun. Why not have your own ship and engineer around there Eis you like that part of the game? In all hoensty I think this system will crash and burn haaaaard, like many in theory cool systems this game has but are in reality stuff most players won't wanna Deal with. like I wanna be excited for the game but the more ai see the more I think, wait so this is basically working in space, I just don't earn any money from it? Well it's impressive but I won't be having fun with these mechanics. In all honesty I think the single player game will be pretty good if they focus correctly on the right mechanics, but the MMO portion seem like it will be a terrible game to play, even if it's full of cool and impressive systems every nerd (me included) always wanted but realizes that implemented they just aren't fun.
@@dariusgunter5344 I mean nothing stops you from having your own fighter and use it when you play solo, and have an RP engineer job on a big ship when you want to.
@dariusgunter5344 this is where player orgs come into play. You are correct when it comes to dealing with the public, but for orgs it will be a whole different situation.
Bruh I’m a solo player. I hope CIG doesn’t cater to solos. The entire point of being a line wolf is adapting to circumstances to fit your needs. In reality one person can’t drive a naval warship or submarine so why expect to Fly an intergalactic space ship solo?
This change is so exciting! I'm glad that they're specifically trying to make it more fun and that it's a benefit to have a crew rather than a necessity!
Fun can mean different things to different people. Fun to you might be simple shooting thinking it's more fun to do less work. An org or group with a fully manned well trained crew and micromanaging will probably outgun a unskilled crew or a ship with AI,blades,and NPC and consider it all fun because of working together to accomplish things. I have met these type of players and Orgs at Citizencon and they are serious. Many of you are in for a big surprise later. Some of you may have to stay in your lane and get someone to fight you more at your level if you can with that mindset.
Though I'm more kind of a lone wolf, and my aim is to be an intrepid helper, I'm really happy that ships like the Idris or Carack will be just "big ships with shiny interior and huge layouts", but that they will become functional and require a "lived in" gameplay loop to maintain. I wonder how this will translate to me being in my syulen and make sure it will maintain smooth operation on long travels too.
We'll get them when we get ''Custom Ship Paints''. CIG will not rush out NPC Crew over money spending backers, you will never be able to crew a ship fully with NPC, it will reduce player base, not happening whatever you think.
03:00 Do we have any additional incite as to how the repair room of the Carrack is intended to work and be of actual benefit? It looks like handheld repair tools can fix the sized items that would fit in the repair machine door. Maybe just that ~size 2 and smaller modules don't need a repair tool to fix? Does the Carrack have small enough components to even get repaired there? Maybe mostly subcomponents?
All of this is so good. I just pray that CIG , in chasing realism don’t take away the fun factor becasue , in the end this is still a game and I don’t wanna end up doing 100 things to keep my ship running.
Agreed. I love the idea of having to do repairs and maintenance on my ship after a long fight, but if every encounter results in 10 fires and malfunctioning components mid fight then the fun factor will be almost completely gone.
There needs to be some kind of "looking for crew" job board that's not based on organisations. I'd happily pay wages to people crewing my ship, but it's a hassle to have to arrange it manually via the in-game chat.
Morphologis, you're falling into the trap of thinking all of this is coming out Soon when it's really coming out Soon(TM)... CIG often shows concept videos of features that never come out.
The problem the Hammerhead, in particular, runs into as a "screening ship" is the weapon ranges you have to almost be landed on any ship you are going to screen and you cant' screen a convoy or fleet with it. It is too easy to go around it. More importantly, though crewing it is likely to be more difficult than people assume. In most MMO's putting together a 4 person party is simple, while putting together an 8 to 16 person raid tends to take an hour or more to assemble and organize. And that is without the hurry up and wait and travel times that Chris Roberts seems to want to bake into Star Citizen. While 16 person, or larger raids can be a blast, and a rewarding player experience, it is the exception, not the rule. (The City fights in Warhammer Fantasy Role Playing were amazing but a real PITA to get set up right.) I am intentionally keeping crew requirements small in my fleet. Only one ship is to have a crew larger than 3 (In my case, at the moment, a Retaliator). The downside to having a ship like a Hammerhead, Retaliator, or even more so, Polaris, Idris or Javelin, is putting together a crew takes time.
For large components, I’d love to see a replacement factor included. Carrying spare parts on the ship for engineering purposes is definitely a good move. Moreover, when tuning, it should create additional wear on parts especially if using an item outside of its rating capabilities.
if they plan to implement this, and force multicrew for larger ships, they better implement that new damage tech , and armor system that will keep the larger ships from being flying coffins. Right now the ttk is way to low for multicrew ships.
FYI, this was always the plan. None of this is a surprise, and anyone who thought they could comfortably solo their gigachad Javelins were told often and loudly by the community over the years.
People were running engineering drills on the deck of Port Olisar, and recruiting and allocating engineering roles for their orgs, since back when Port Olisar was the only location in the game. Engineering and requiring multiple crew members to manage big ships was Always a thing that is coming one day.
@@MastaSquidge I didn't say it wasn't. I'm just saying there is tech they are going to implement that would make multicrew ships worth crewing. Because right now it makes more sense to fly 3-4 separate smaller ships vs loading up into one big ship because of how fragile they are. Cig plans to change the way damage is done to where certain sizes guns cannot damage certain types of materials/armors and that , imo, should be implemented before implementing engineering if you want people to actually use it, otherwise if you're just stuck in a fragile space coffin with low ttk people will just fly their own ships individually, as it makes more sense currently. Especially in terms of combat.
As long as fixing everything will still work while in a fully functional space port or space station still works, I’m ok with it. I’m ok with the idea that you fuel is not you main expense to run large ship.
@@ShitzGiggles Star Citizen Servers cap around 50 people. Coordinating a group of more than 5 is a massive pain in the ass in real life. So if you have a capital class ship that needs about 15 people to run efficiently, you have a full 5th of that server with you, and that's even if you can convince those 15 people to play with you.
I'm imagining an Expanse scenario: battle is about to start and they vent the air / shut off life support to divert all energy to shields, weapons, and maneuvering. I wonder if the Carrack will be considered a Military or Civilian ship (it being ex-military) in the new component classification system.
Those battles were very realistic though and combat occurred at insane distances using mainly missiles and point defense to shoot down incoming missiles heavily controlled by onboard computers compared to this game where its all point blank ww2 fighter pilot and sounds like ww2 naval ship combat style. Plus they had access to nukes =P I think Expanse ships would walk all over even the largest ships in the SC universe =P Fancy ships even got railguns from memory.
My main concern is i dont want features to be added solely to make the game more tedious and annoying But i do hope this makes traversing and travelling with ships more engaging, like giving you something to do in QT But all in all, i think this is a good move. As it is right now, i can easily imagine everyone using massive ships as solo/duo fighters, so adding this system will make large ships a more rare sight, and give that rare sight actual reason, since that ship will probably have a good crew on board
My main concern is how will CIG make multi crew advantageous over running multiple ships, eg 1 ship with 5 crew vs 5 ships with 1 crew each. Which will earn more when you take away cost of repair, maintenance, fees, fuel and ammo?
Although I'm looking forward to the engineering gameplay and if CIG's iteration of "gamified fun" comes to fruition, I'd be happy to be someone's "fixer-upper" and 2 out of the 3 engineering roles really appeal to me. The only part I don't understand is that you can't fully power your ship, I get underpowering to conserve components and mitigate some wear and tear, also I get that when your powerplant is damaged you'll need to make sacrifices or when you don't have a Grade A powerplant or when EVERY other component is Grade A, but the fact you don't have enough juice to run your ship seems weird to me
I sure hope they do a quality pass on older ships like the vanguards before requiring componet swaps. As the large components in the cockpit cannot even fit through the doorway.
Star Citizen is such a weird game for me. I do own it and I do like it but I almost never play it. I really love the Idea of the Game and always keep up to date with the game. But I rarely start it. Am I alone with this?
I hope to see industrial ships like the Reclaimer having massively thick hulls, making them virtually immune to damage from anything less than a size 5 gun or a missile. It would compensate for the lack of manoeuvrability. Also, ballistics should punch through a hull, rather than destroying a patch like energy weapons. If the hole causes depressurisation, then those areas will need to be sealed off or suits & helmets worn. If the ballistic hits a component, then it absolutely destroys it. Welding a hole can restore the atmosphere, but a component hit by ballistics cannot be repaired at all. So ballistic weapons cause precise and massive damage, but a near miss just makes a hole in the ship. Energy weapons cause more widespread damage, but less penetration and less hull damage.
I remember a time when 2 pilots in small fighters locked down a station and were killing everyone who dared come near. 9 of us decided to man two hammerheads to take them out. Well, it takes 45 minutes to gather everyone up and board the two vessels, and the two griefers wait around for us. We quantum in and both hammerheads are dead in less than 45 seconds. I hope this changes that.
taking a bunch of smaller ships over bigger ships is already the pvp meta, now it will be even more the meta lmao. no idea why cig keeps making changes like this, just for large combat ships to be absolutely useless
They won't be useless at all. Once armour and the weapons rework comes in, small weapons vs. thick armour will be far less effective and efficient. You'll still be able to overwhelm players who make poor choices like undercrewing a ship or expecting to take on a group of skilled players with only AI crew though.
The armor rework seems to suggest otherwise. Iirc, they explicitly said they want a Hammerhead to be pretty much invulnerable to size one guns, for example.
I think people forget that fighters and vehicles also use the same components and node system so they kinda will need engineering just as much as the larger ones diffrence is size 1,2 components can be replaced in space while 3,4 will need to be towed
CIG needs to implement a match making/job board service in the game. The time it takes for people (random rather then Corp) to collect, prep, deploy and find a mission for the large ships is crazy. If you accept a job req, you should teleport onto the ship ready to go. Spending 1.5 hours flying to a collection location, getting gear, deploying, finding a mission... Is like 1+ hours of prep for 15 minutes of action... Which may be many people entire night of gaming. (Understand this is against the SC vision and AC will have this, but I think PU should also streamline this to focus on real people rather than NPC crews).
This was always a writing on the wall, and absolutely made me stay away from large ships as I am a solo player. The largest boat in my fleet is the MSR, which I do hope I'll be able to crew alone or with some AI or just blades.
I don't wanna seem to be negative on this forthcoming gameloop. But l feel l have to point out that a vast contingent of gamers have family responsibilities jobs careers etc and play solo because they cannot find the time to commit to orgs and multiplay. Granted if there was a mechanic ingame whereby they could join a crew "live" seeking engineers gunners co pilots etc this would greatly aid the pessimism I feel. Currently there is no such mechanism ingame for recruitment of crew aside from main chat. This needs to be addressed.
Big Ships with full interior were the reason I backed SC, I went straight to a BMM as "my ship" to the point that I waited with backing SC until I was sure to be able to obtain a BMM at it's low price (back then, over the years I managed to further reduce the price to about 120-130$ for a BMM). CIG does love to make small things sound big... the option to buff weapons based on their mount isn't new tech at all. The Distance for weapons is calculated by velocity and lifetime of the projectile, so all you have to do is code a "on equip" switch and copypaste your projectile like M5A and M5A_Turret, buff the turret one accordingly and you got the buff... that's not "new technology". CIG already cashed in heavily with powercreep on small ship's offensive capabilities, to the point where it became meaningless as everything could delete everything in seconds anyway, thus making agility the primary balance point. For obvious reasons, this didn't help the already semi-obsolete "big ships". The last time a "big ship" was in a dominant position was the Redeemer by virtue of having much longer ranges and this also made it vastly superior to the much bigger Hammerhead, and CIG nerfed it's agility while nerfing ranges in general. The "resistance against weapons" is a old concept, CIG actually did give us a concrete example, which got mostly ignored: On the Perseus Q&A, it was stated that the S7 guns are effective against large ships and "critical areas" on capital ships. They also stated that even the Perseus's super-heavy large ship armor is weaker than the lightest (890?) cap ship armor, hence why the Polaris and BMM going capital might be a much bigger deal than some think. Sounds too good to be true for big ship owners... and it possibly is. Because assuming the following balance: Cap ships: S7 for weakpoints, S8 to penetrate armor large ships: light: S4, medium: S5, heavy: S6, Perseus: S7 to penetrate armor medium ships: light: s1, medium s2, heavy: s3 small ships: light: pistols, medium: rifles, heavy: s0 (I think components of lighter armored large ships and below would be vulnerable to most/all ship weapons) A very large portion of ships would be obsolete for general combat and traditional fighters would be mostly relegated to combat against torpedo bombers and each other... I doubt players would put up with those restrictions outside of organized groups with dedicated squadrons for various tasks.
10:20 the way I interpret it, it's more the type of the weapon that matters... (though the size also affects it). repeaters would be less effective for example than cannons against armor which is as it should be, the repeaters are supposed to be rapid firing small bore guns, they logically shouldn't be as effective as large bore cannons for punching through armor because that's how it was for us assuming both were using the same type of ammo... this would also fix the problem in SC right now where there's no point for the other gun types... like why would anyone previously use cannons over repeaters? they wouldn't really... because it doesn't give you any real benefit to choose cannons over repeaters. If armor actually mattered and the cannons are more effective then it finally can give it some actual use.
Remembering all those Star Trek episodes where someone shouts something "Warp core off line! Reroute auxiliary power to shields! Engineering, get the main engines back online!"
I find this super cool and exciting. I can't wait to get my friends together and sit there and say, "engage!" all to nerd out over star trek and feel cool
I for one am really happy with this change. You can just get in a Hammerhead with full crew and boom and zoom/turn fight like a fighter and it kinda ruins the whole thing of having a larger ship. Also the Idris Events where it just dances around kinda kills it, so larger ships having to stay in position more rather then just Top Gun manouver is gonna be great! Also the engineering part is really cool, this could make larger ships much more fun to fly besides just shitting in turrets for most of the people, or you can bring extra people in for engineering
![An Architect Reviews the Crusader Spirit [Star Citizen]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dWwqbsEOnXA/mqdefault.jpg)
![An Architect Reviews the Crusader Spirit [Star Citizen]](/img/tr.png)
This is exciting and a necessary step to making large ships more fun. Now we need NPC crew because maintaining a human crew is going to be a major pain and/or impossible depending on the mission. I doubt many people want to sit in a Carrack indefinitely while the captain checks out whatever interests him while actively avoiding any combat action. And oh, wife's home, have to go cook dinner, sorry everyone else lol.
Yeah, the main issue here is you can only find so many players to crew these ships. Not only is the playerbase limited, but i imagine there aren't that many people who wanna dedicate their role to repair components, compared to flying their own fighters and such
Sure there are people who wanna do it, but then again, there are only so many. And thats just the players, finding someone who are available when you are, in your timezone is a whole different can of worms
I think that feature is coming, slowly, but surely. I just noticed in a recent patch that several NPCs, like at the New Deal counters, you can interact with them and there's a prompt for "do you have any work for me?" Seems we will be able to pick up jobs from random NPCs in the future just by asking and this may be a mechanic for future recruiting of NPCs like in bars and other locations.
@joelellis7035 That's probably accurate, but there's a tremendous gap, (like a 'that's a whole different game' size gap), between getting a mission from an npc and hiring an npc to run around your ship playing engineer. I would think some of the major mechanics for NPC crew would have to be in Squadron 42 though.
I honestly think adding NPC crews would take away from the realism of the game. The camaraderie of having a tight knit crew sounds more exciting than ordering some AI bot to do the job. Just my opinion. 👍
If Eve Online is anything to go by, the light ship meta isn't going anywhere. It's easier to gank and travel in smaller ships.
I’m certain with all this happening, big ships are going to be getting a pretty huge glow up regarding their weaponry and other offensive/defensive components to justify the hassle of using them.
Yeah, they will need to be significantly more useful than the same number of pilots in single player ships... which seems a ways off...
@bradwiggins2332 Agreed. Ideally 5 players in a capital ship should generally be a pretty good match for 5 players attacking them in small ships, unless those small ships are a good mix of counters for large vessels, like the Ares. Will be a very difficult thing to balance in the long term.
They did say that larger ships won't need to worry too much about light fighters.
@@bradwiggins2332 I mean certain features about capital/large ships already sound great; like the Privateer and the Merchantman with it's inbuilt shops, the Idris with it's railgun, the Polaris with it's Size 10 torpedos. All this + the fact that these ships will most likely always have escort fighters in their hangars in case of emergencies.
The armor system intended for the game will help a lot with this. Smaller weapons will do significantly less damage to a ship - or fail to do any entirely - because they can't penetrate the armor or lose most of their energy from their impact with the armor. The problem in the current game is that ANY weapon can project its full dps onto even the largest ships, so all that matters is to put out more dps than the enemy has shield regeneration, at which point its just a matter of burning down the total health pool. In the future, with armor, something like an Idris will have very little to fear from most fighters with S1 to even S4 guns. Large/capital armor, especially on military vessels, will make them a problem for fighters not explicitly armed to deal with that level of armor.
Given ships like the Perseus and Ares fighters that are intended to combat large/capital ships have S7 weapons, it seems that S7 is really the intended weapon size for combating military sub-caps and small capital ships. So even S5s and S6s will probably be more designed for lightly armored large subcaps or medium subcaps.
For me it all comes down to, how well they tune the engineering mechanics. If there is too much annoying micro management to be done during a battle, i fear that large ships will become too tedious to fly. It remains to be seen how the shield and armor systems will change the way large ships perform in combat.
The best thing they can honestly do is to get the system out there, CIG is very responsive to the community and once the community can try it out, adjustment can be made so that it hits the sweetspot in the middle between annoying and fun.
corsair lookin rly good right now lol. might have to buy instead of the Zues
component health will considerably be going up, I really doubt it's going to be so dramatic.
@@JwallzMTBhow so?
bec im mainly solo playing this game 99% of the time so it just makes sense to have something with that firepower and space@@jde-jj1lu
I like the idea of venting atmo prior to entering combat in case of damage and fires. Not on a passenger transport obviously unless hired to do so.
Funnily enough the big critisism of the hammerhead is its lack of doors near the cargo ramp.
The no airlock oxygen just stays in has annoyed me long enough
Oxygen will be a limited resource, both in ship and in your space suits, so that would be a bad idea.
Limited by how many people it can support in the whole ship yes but repressurising a room to breathable levels will just take longer. Nuclear Submarines have limited Oxygen (The reactor can make oxygen through Electrolysis) but that may not be fast enough so they can use Oxygen Candles to increase Oxygen levels quickly. CO2 Scrubbers keep the air breathable. Too much CO2 is toxic. So in the case of fires, venting atmo would be normal because the crew will need to wear masks anyway. due to smoke and toxic fumes. @@Razumen
@@Max_Flashheart Masks that filter air aren't the same thing as oxygen masks. And you're going to run out of oxygen quickly if you're constantly venting the ship. Not to mention you can't just vent to a vacuum when people aren't wearing spacesuits.
Venting atmosphere every time you're in combat is not sustainable and I hope that the game punishes players that abuse it.
Venting is a emergency scenario (Fire/Combat Red Alert, Battle Stations etc) can also include removing and compressing atmo to tanks. By masks I mean flight suit helmets in game. For example in The Expanse when entering combat they would all be in flight suits and vent the atmo to avoid issues with hull breaches and fires@@Razumen like this one ua-cam.com/video/MxiTqr9RXIc/v-deo.htmlsi=iuoDZ_dnQvwWFvp or ua-cam.com/video/XuqEX1PnG9I/v-deo.htmlsi=Csv-06G5IB9ApB54 just a good excuse to watch some cool space battles that are based on more realistic space combat scenarios.
I’m glad they are giving players more reasons to join an org or to play in groups, but I really hope they are working on npc/AI crew options for those of us who would rather play solo.
Like a solo player can higher an AI crew but the trade off is that they might not be as efficient as a full on player filled crew, but at least it won’t cut off the majority of the player base from accessing these larger ships.
This is exactly what I want, with the possible addition of varying degrees of skill between different available AI crew, which of course you’d have to pay more to hire and possibly travel to farther/more dangerous places to find. CIG can add tons of interactions with the economy system here, and economy really is what drives games like this in the end.
The problem with this is instead of some groups flying big ships and solo players flying smaller ships - you run the risk of ending up with everyone flying an AI crewed ship that is as big as they can afford. And nobody flying small ships.
to be fair - they do need to implement multiecrew functionality first. Then implement functional NPCs beyond the riff raff nonsense currently in game. And the computer blade implementation will come last after they get the component system in place and working and NPC crew functionality added. EVERYBODY HOLD ON - WE'RE STILL ANOTHER 10+ YEARS OUT FOR ANYTHING RESEMBLING A POLISHED GAME.
My experience in multiply games is that sometimes other players are not very efficient as they should be. I've had drunk players ruin and make it harder to get through raids. lol
I appreciate your storytelling by getting people to roleplay as engineers and the gameplay in the hammerhead. Great job and it seemed seamless and was informative even with no gameplay
Thank you! It was really time consuming but ultimately worth it. We also has a good laugh collecting some of the footage that didn't make it in, I'll need to add it in somewhere else.
but that is just it, to make the game interesting, you have to get people to ROLEPLAY and CREATE the game loop, Because the game is so devoid of actual interesting loops, or is still missing the engineer loop, that streamers like this have to FAKE it to generate hype. it's ridiculous, this game needs to stand on it's own merits, and present something compelling, not have unofficial roleplay events hosted by streamers to make it compelling.
The biggest ship i own currently is an aquila. I also have a c1 and a zeus in my fleet. I chose these ships for their more mid sized sizes. I chose the aquila for its versatility. I chose the zeus es for future exploration (which i can also use the aquila for but i think the zeus may become more "economical"), and i the the c1 as my current daily runner, and am looking for one or two dedicated fighters, though i prefer multirole ships, hence why i bough the ships i have. Im hoping that ill still be able to fly my connie solo as though i do have friends who play games... none are interested in star citizen.
All very cool but I’m really worried they will push these kind of things too far and destroy this great game doing so. There are enough unpleasant things and work to do in real life; I don’t want to do the same stuff in a game. I’m worried it might end up like this: I have some (rare) free time after work so I log in to have some fun. I notice I’m dehydrated, hungry and smelly. I go find some food and drink, use it, go to the toilet, take a shower (why not implement doing the laundry while you’re at it…:p). I notice I still need to refuel and rearm. Then I want to finally fly out and have some fun, but I notice I need to repair or replace some components first. After an hour after doing all this crap I’m like “yaaay finally time for some bounty hunting”, when I notice the clock and see my gaming time has past. And I’m not even flying the ship at that point. At least in real life I can enjoy food or a drink, a shower, even a shit; in game it’s just an annoying waste of time. And having to fix and maintain stuff in real life is already enough. And I like realism, but a game is most of all supposed to be fun. And it’s that part that I’m worried about.
The devs literally said these changes would NOT make flying a large ship harder provided the ship is in good condition. They said this gameplay would make those ships more survivable and effective if you paid attention to these mechanics. So it's not going to get worse. If you don't want to maintain stuff yourself, just take it to the shop for repairs periodically :)
After your preparing day, the next day with some rare free time will be much more productive. SC is a MMO and MMOs take time.
@@lugga_oO “much more productive”? Dude what the heck are you on about? Why would anyone want to spend two days for just of 2 hours of fucking entertainment?
If someone wants productivity they wouldn’t play this damn game anyways.
Repairing ships once docked should be a very easy and automated process handled by the station crew, I don't see any reason why it would take an hour. It probably won't be instantaneous, but from a gameplay balancing perspective, repairing doesn't need to take as long when not in or in danger of combat.
ALL HAIL THE ONCOMING SHITTING GAME PLAY LOOP: Hold up everybody we have to stop the fight for 15 minutes so my character can goto the can. Oh damn I forgot to stock TP !!!!!
This feature is an make or break situation completely depending on when we will finaly get AI crew and how well AI crew will be able to handle the tasks. They always said that solo players will be able to fly any ship with ai crew and automation server blades for remote turrets for example, but if they take ages to finaly allow us to hire AI or if they break all the time (not responding, being stuck somewhere etc) it is only going to be a pain.
In general I like the idea of having actual multicrew gameplay outside being bored to death inside turrets if nothing ever happens during flight but it shouldn't be forced onto people either by not delivering AI in time or by making them far less viable and reliable than player crews since not everyone has an infinite supply of friends that actually play star citizen and have time for it at the exact same time as everyone else in the group.
RSI Should at least allow Dual Boxing.
The issue is they cannot get NPC crew to work with the servers (it was mentioned some months back) sohips NPC crew has been parked for now. So they ar focusing on the gameplay for players. Personally I cannot see AI crew handling the engineering gameplay. There has to be balance and you cannot have an AI crew performing better than a player crew. Also as you said NPC crew will break as ping is a thing!
Personally I cannot see NPC's ever being a thing as people believe they will be. A case of CIG making this up as they go along tbh and testing the water. Saying AI crew will be a thing when they haven't even tested it in a fully PU environment....time will tell
No doubt, I see AI underperforming compared to a mid player crew, but it's fairly safe to say they will have it competent enough to allow solos to at least be fodder for fully crewed ships so there is simply more interactions. That said, I won't be surprised when a single, well disciplined and exemplary captain can also take on and dominate a middling player crew. There is a lot to be said about fleet ops and complex squadron compositions as well, alongside the multitudes of loadouts ships will be found in at different economic levels and such... Particularly in unsettled systems like Pyro, where you'll have to cooperate to stay, operating refineries and such.
The dream is alive and well, I can't wait to see those with the time, effort and resources, excel and show us what's actually possible, RP or not.
Never planned on getting a big ship.
Knew I wouldn't be able to handle one myself.
My biggest ship is a Spirit.
Probably the largest I'll be able to handle myself.
As many have said, The biggest drawback on big ships is getting players to man your turrets etc. Most players prefer to fly their own ships so untill ai crews become viable, the bigger ships only appeal to big orgs. Sure, There are those who just want to fly to a ship meet in something big to say "look what I have", The same ones that want to talk in local about how great their computer specs are etc. Seems that AI crews are a ways off but we can hope.
This makes me glad that I own smaller ships. I play games largely to get *away* from dealing with people, lol. I can get to the components on my Spirit.
same
You play SC to get away from people... 😶🤨
It's still basically MMOG, so there are lots of people..
Exactly clowns buying all these big ships
Wanna play SC with me?! =D
InfoRunners disciples are going to be in for a rough ride.
This is where the realism and gameplay balance needs to come into focus to be successful. Keep in mind the smallest military naval vessels have a hundred sailors or more aboard to keep a military grade system functioning properly and effective in battle. I see this as requiring an actual captain to actually train the crew on the platform either way. IDK how much people want to apply rigorous discipline to operating a toy vessel in a "game" but I do like the fact that big ships are no longer just DPS tanks with full functionality until they go boom. But can lose capability and malfunction but not be destroyed...
I'm all up for realism and gameplay balance, but you can't tell me it's realistic that these ships that have to traverse the most hostile environment known to mane (space) and do battle in it; don't even have BASIC FIRE SUPRESSION SYSTEMS that we have IRL in just static buildings, even auto closing doors to prevent backdraft or slowing down the spread of fire. This is my biggest gripe with these engineering changes; so many basic things the player are required to do in a future setting which are already solved IRL that just seems like busywork for the player. Like "can't wear spacesuits all time cause oxygen" every ship has an atmosphere inside already as is; suit can use that, visor can go down automatically if oxygen vents from the atmosphere etc. Again, just busywork excuse for the player.
oh boy...
i cannot wait to finish my 40 hour work week to come home and work on my ships for 6 hours on the friday so i can play with my friends on saturday only to find out that someone in the group didnt maintain there ship so we have to waste all day fixing there ship so we can leave port and have the ships status set to "location unknown" by some funky server shit
I mean that sounds good and all... but i think the "fighting" has to go on A LOT longer than it currently does.
Because if it's over in a minute or 2, maybe 3, why even bother at all?
So ships would have to be MUCH more sturdy, making fights between 2 equal (big) ships last something like 10 minutes or so, minimum.
Definitely, but I think this is also geared towards making big ships last much longer against small ones, because the big ships can repair themselves in the field, the small ones can't. In a big battle between two big ships, I can definitely see battles taking longer, but still being over much faster than against multiple smaller ones, because the bigger enemy ship would be able to deliver much more damage over time that it would overwhelm any engineering crew.
Capital ship battles with supporting fleets (both of equal skill) shouldn't last less than 1h imo. And that's a _really_ conservative figure
@@randomuserame Not with modern weapons, in a full out battle, the outcome would be decided in a matter of minutes, not hours.
4:37 I'm wondering what's burning there? From a realism viewpoint It's probably all metal plates and fire-resistant materials in the ship. But it looks more like ships in SC are made then of especially easy to catch fire materials.
Same as regular plane. Even if it is fire-resistant material, it will burn after some time.
You have never seen a fire aboard a navy battleship? - not only are they made of steel, but they are literally sitting in water.
@@hawkzulu5671 Fire needs something to burn. Do you want to tell me the steel is what's burning?
i cant tell you whats burning - but i do know they have a voxel based fire sim (that you are seeing in action) and it takes into account fuel source, ignition source, oxygen levels..etc. - kind of like.. u know.. a vehicle on fire. Never seen a ship, airplane, spacecraft, car, submarine, boat or any kind of vehicle on fire b4? - even ones made of steel?..see.. the steel might not be on fire..but there are non steel items inside. @@LordCritish
I do like the idea of bigger ships needing a crew in order to fly. I don’t wanna deal with players so the day we have an AI crew I’ll have to stick to my c1 spirit
@legogutt2000 you will more than likely be able to fly bigger ships solo albeit way more difficult as it is now. As long as you keep up with maintenance and dont get caught in combat, youll be ok probably. Basically just taking a huge risk without crew/ai
Yeah, I'm sure the server fps will not make them stand on a chair... 😂
@@cmdrls212 Yeah..... I can only hope they wont be that bad in the future 🤣
AI crew will make it easier. Also not all players in SC are going to be skilled PVPers 😆. Even those who think they are really aren't. So upgrading your weapons, leveling up your NPC gunners as high as possible, have a pretty good NPC pilot and You play Captian and Engineer at the sametime a long with maybe a NPC engineer or you take one of the turrets. Trust me I bet 80% of players who play this game would still not be able to handle the right NPC crew setup in a Carrack or Hammer head.
@@MrGrownman455 have you seen AI in star citizen? They don't scale to the needs of the game. They are going to be worse than the worse player.
I feel a lot of larger ships like the Javelin, Kraken and others are going to collect dust.
Only for whose who bought them as a solo player. I'm sure orgs will make use of them.
@lexsdragon1554 Honestly have a "capitol ship" account for an org might be a good idea. Only if everyone know eachother really well of course
@@lexsdragon1554 THE PROBLEM IS that CIG has consistently marketed all ships INLCUDING The Jav / Idris / Kraken to all players as if they could solo these capital ships. While discussing multicrew ships/roles during dev talks. None of which is in the marketing materials or promotions. So CIGF is fine with selling huge ships to players under the guiseof solo game play BUT refuses to clarify the distinction so they get your money even if that large fancy ship you bought for solo play ends up sitting on a shelf. At a point CIG will be forced into 1 of 2 options either restrict large ship sales to something like Orgs Only and refund any player that bought into the solo game play hype they shvoel out in their marketing OR retain the cash and make heavy changes to the code base to allow solo players to manage a full on Idris with little to no downside. CIG Marketing DOES NOT Match What Their Development States (read False Advertising).
I am personally more concerned than excited. Hopefully most of this won't be implemented before it can be implemented together with NPC crew, because while it's great to add content that you can optionally engage in if you find it fun, making it mandatory without some sort of in-game workaround for "opting out" of the gameplay loop just turns into some bizarre fetishizing of obstacles-to-having-fun. As an example; Not everyone who plays a spaceship simulator enjoys first-person shooter gameplay, but thankfully bunker missions etc. that focus on it are just one kind of gameplay loop out of many.
Don't pilot big ship you don't have the crew for, simple.
@@Razumen Why? I want to pilot the big ship. How many people do you know that can coordinate 8+ people and convince them to fly around with them on their big ship for a few hours with their only job being "sit around until things break". The only reason people do that in real life is because they are paid real money to do it.
If the system makes it impossible for solo players (the majority of the game base) to actually use larger ships, then it will kill the game.
Morphologis: You won't be able to fly ships alone. Solo big ships is a thing of the past.
CIG: We want to facilitate solo players. You will be able to fly any ship solo.
What is with people in Star Citizen and salivating over solo players not being able to use the ships they played for?
Do you honestly think that any time anyone ever wants to take out anything larger than a single seater ship, they are going to need multiple actual people to do it? That sounds horrifying, of so.
Do most working adults have time to get groups together every single time they want to play the game?
This is nonsense. Facilitating multicrew doesn't mean always locking off solo play.
I love the idea I really do. It makes multiplayer fun and viable, and I understand that CIG intended this game to be a group game. However, if they implement this before they have the AI setup to help solo players, they will effectively kill a majority of their solo-player gamers. That would put 80% of their ships out of viable play for solo players. And what would we have to work towards? All that money would go to just parts. No need to save up for any of the 2~3 person crew ships if I can’t do anything with them. It will depend on the level they integrate this at and the RNG factor. I’m not looking to own/fly an 890J or Carrack solo, but if even the 2-3 crew ships become too much for just one person, they will have ruined the game for me and probably many other solo players just looking for a fun, semi-relaxing open world space sim experience.
the only people this would effect are idiots who thought they could solo large ships in the first place despite this system being know from the beginning. sure we didnt know the specifics of the literal mechanics, but the ships have a minimum recommended crew spec for a reason and weve always know that large ships would REQUIRE a crew to operate correctly.
and the things you have to work towards is reputation and bug testing because you literally paid to be a bug tester stop trying to sweat like this is a competitive title with rewards on the line. if you want a large ship, get a crew.
@@CalibrummTotally right
@@thegeneral1955 thats what we wanted from the beginning. realism. its always been advertised as a space sim. they say in the dev reports all the time to "make it as real as possible then pull it back just enough to make it fun."
if you want arcade space game then play Elite: Dangerous. its also a fun game if youre ok with the devs being quite a bit lazy and overcharging for basic game mechanics. want to land on a planet? thats a DLC and the planets are basically empty. enjoy.
@@Calibrumm The crews have always been a you CAN have 5-6 people crew this ship with you. Not that you are FORCED. If that was the case, they would not be adding AI crew men, so they clearly intend for large ships to be used by solo players.
Also, you're telling me that regularly, you can coordinate a group of anywhere up to 10 people to sit around on your ship doing maintence work for several hours a day. What happens if you want to play and they can't? What happens when they inevitably crash out during a time they need to do something important? What happens if they decide they want to fly their own ships?
Suck it up and not use the big ship you spent days/weeks of grinding for? Fuck that. This is a bad opinion. Most of the player base is solo players and part of the fun is being able to fly these massive ships. Engineering is a good idea, but it has to release in conjunction with AI players or be much less involved than it sounds, or it will kill the game. Realism is fine, but if you're gonna go for full realism, everytime you die you should have to make a new character, and buy your ship again. Make the travel time from your apartment to the ship, which can take 5 minutes, an extra 25, have to go through customs, have taxes, etc.
@@invidatauro8922 play a different game then, we paid money for it to be like this 🤷
Thank you for explaining the upcoming changes in a way that's allowed me to drop my extreme worry about the larger ships I've bought as a primarily solo player. I think these changes are extremely fair and honestly needed for larger ships to truly have a purpose in the verse. Knowledge is the death of fear. o7
So if you know you are about to die a very painful death, you are fine?
I definitely feel like you have a good perspective on this. It’s not going to affect most people who use big ships now, but it is definitely necessary for large ship balance down the line. A single person shouldn’t be able to solo fly a ship that can take down fleets of players.
@@Morphologislarge ships tend to use turrets instead of pilot controlled weapons also small ships and vehicles use the same component and node system in the engineering clip they maintained a fury and replaced components so it kinda applies to all ships and not just large size 1,2 can be replaced in space 2,3 needed ports so even fighters might need someone to fly a new powerplant to them while a large ship might need towing to port for the same damage i think most people forget vehicles like the storm also use the same system and needs to be maintained
knowledge is the death of fear ... unless that knowledge leads to the wrong outcome which in turn makes you fear said outcome.
This also adds a lot of unexpected value to largish ships that still have size 2 components... Not the strongest ship for its size, but convenient and versatile.
I assume you are talking about the "medium" class of ships. Currently the Drake Cutlass series, MISC Freelancer series, Crusader Spirit series, and RSI Zeus Mk2 series fall into this class. I'm not sure about component size but the ARGO RAFT and Drake Vulture might fall into this as well. I know the MSR has two size 2 shields and would probably fall into the upper end simply because it has the speed to outrun most engagements. At the extreme bottom end would maybe be the C.O. Nomad?
Retaliator.. 😍
None of it was unexpected. Not sure why people keep saying this crap - unless you haven't bothered keeping up with any part of the development at all in the last decade. CIG said this would be a thing back at the beginning and have repeated it over and over and over again for years.
I think what SC needs are decent carriers like a Bebop, Battlestar or Protoss carrier. At the moment I don't see the advantage in most of the mult crew ships when each crew member could be more versatile and effective in their own ships. This way all the orgs could at least have a base of operations for their players to rally about and socialise in.
Give me Bebop! I'd be okay with it specializing in carting snubs around with an exploration focus (plus an air-carrier style launch system would be pretty sweet, tho wholly unnecessary)
the drake kraken.
@mryellow6918 true yea there's that, it'd be nice to have one that's a bit more "homestead" ish. Like for a crew of 6 or so, specialized in exploring, especially planet-side. I don't have enough friends for a Kraken lol
Anvil Liberator is perfect for that.@@emperio6743
You mean the Carrack, then?
This is why I have no ships that will require more than 4/5 people. And always have a few solo ships. Still looking forward to working on one of these larger ships though.
Tough small ships will also have components and use the same system and nodes and will also need the same enginnering :p
I have a feeling, that at some point we will get some form of a contract or org based lobby system, so that other players can teleport into the beds of multicrew ships. If someone in the org asks for a crew, his friends who are online can just spontainiously log out in the bed of a ship or station and then relog into an empty bed of the org members multicrew ship. The same could be possible with contracts. You set of an offer for some crew positions and other random players can teleport into that role from any position in the verse. After finishing the session, you get transported back to your old position via bed logging. This way multicrew will be possible for everybody without the need for extensive friend lists and setup times. If you feel like ship scrapping today, just jump into an
listed open position on a reclaimer for two hours, make some money, and then teleport back wo your own ship and position. CIG would have to put in some restrictions like only allowing to teleport into landed ships with a free bed or at least ships out of combat but it would be a great addition to the game and encourage teamplay. If you look at other lobby based games, everyone is fine with "having to" play cooperative, because the setup time is as quick as playing solo.
I love flying, but engineering gameplay is what drew me to SC all the way back in 2016
You'd seriously log in for several hours just to poke at an engineering station and do literally nothing else in a video game? Do you also like watching how far trees move each day? To each their own I guess.
The big ship changes gave me a strong Barotrauma vibe. Glad to see that!
lol yeah I was going to say the same. Hopefully the complexity doesn’t scale much higher than Baro, it does a good job of not being too complex to interact with for maintaining status quo while still allowing experts to do some crazy involved stuff. Also hopefully the component decay rate is a lot lower than baro 😂
@@cb_the_kirb But at the sane time...they will know a strong force that is a clown as an engineer. Every ship fear him.
@@cb_the_kirb Mabye they can go for low skill floor but high skill ceiling. Making it deep but also something anyone can do in a pinch.
@@ShitzGiggles Yeah I hope that's the result. Cruising around Stanton and engagements that result in not taking much hull damage in PvE shouldn't force most solo players out of the mid-size ships, but long-term self-sufficiency in Pyro and whatever might come next or taking some punishment in PvP should require a bit of teamwork to keep the big ships operational.
Still even the fighters and vehicles use the same component and node system and wont be excluded from it
I am sooooo excited about this! Large multi crew ships are the reason I got into SC in the kickstarter days!
This is like if Grand Turismo or Forza required a dozen players to actually maintance your Race Car during and after each race.
They're just adding a HUGE hurdle to using large ships, adding pointless complication to gameplay, and increasing development time.
I'm genuinely sad about this.
I can’t wait to start putting points into the engineering skills!
Next they'll announce even more tedium; all hands on deck to clean and scrub the ship, make up the racks, laundry, space bugs on the windshield you'll have to scrape off, tears in your spacesuit to you'll need to hem up.
I am excited for these changes HOWEVER. I have major concern for non-military ships AKA BMM, etc. These ships are meant for cargo hauling or selling goods. Given that more often than not they won’t be engaging in any fighting it would be hard to have other players engaged in doing engineering on these ships, hence why I feel that AI needs to be introduced for those kinds of ships. Where AI on military ships may not be as efficient at their jobs given the constant danger of battle.
People only ever seem to talk about big ships in terms of combat ability.
I'm almost positive that large/capital civilian ships will fly just fine solo. If you have to get up from the pilots seat to do engineering, then that should be possible in non-combat situations.
@@Velarieth I hope for our sake that you are right. 😂
BMM is a bad example since it's a generation ship equipped with more weaponry than a typical cargo ship has. and much more capable of defending itself. It also contains a fighter bay that generates a seconary target.
Ooooooh boy theres a lot hanging on the implementation there. Imagine you got your buddys into like a hammerhead and everybodys having fun in the turrets but one guy must point the multitool at broken components. God nobody wants to do that :D
The main issue I see with this is how long until all of the ships actually get the upgrades?
Very few are up to Gold Standard.
Example being Carrack still has no light switches etc. I love that ship, but 80% of it does nothing yet.
i have never seen anyone playing in a group of more than maybe 3 so I'm sure not being able to use the big fancy ships they are used to will go over great in a 1.5 decade long in development game. this will need a ton of balance to make having a crew be a buff and not just not having a crew feel like a hindrance. may be neat if it can make a big combat sip fight longer, or a cargo ship operate farther with less stops, but the ship stile needs to be able to fight, or travel to the same places with a single pilot that's just willing to spend a little more time in harbor prepping.
Ah they will finally introduce the concept of "working" in game. Noice. Can't wait to get back from work and work in game.
Yeah this is not exciting. Nobody wants to escape reality for a while and go be a ships chore boy
You just found out multi crew ships would need multiple players to run effectively? - or you already knew this was coming for years, and they have been working on it for years, and posting the schedules of the teams working on this for years? ..xd
When I saw these ship fires, venting atmosphere came to mind as a quick way to extinguish them, I wonder how CGI is going to balance that. Cause combat ships during combat should have all members wearing helmets in case of a hull breach during a firefight, so the fire mechanics are ... eh... I dunno
In video he stated that it was planned that o2 supply is a limited resource and running out after venting too many times could be a real problem.
Edit:imo this could make just running o2 pens and leaving life support off entirely to save money on repairs could be the meta with how cheap and plentiful they are.
Let's hope this turns out well. The first iteration of anything has historically been pretty wonky and large ships already suffer from having the same crew in smaller ships being as effective if not better.
Industrial ships seem to be made even worse in combat and they weren't exactly great to begin with. Escaping drains shields and even lower durability.
I have mixed feeling when it comes to engineering... on one hand it seems like a good way to man the large ships, on the other I'm a little worried for small ships like that are for 1-2 ppl as they have components but there is no way 1 person can manage that. Fighters are one group, but what about Nomad or Cutty which are often used by 1 person and there is no way to keep dodging attacks trying to flee and deal with engineering problems.
Same here.
I absolutely think the engineering gameplay will be the tool to keep large ships from being solo combat capable.
But I can also see some serious tedium installed on 2-3 man ships that I don't think anyone wants.
I mostly play alone and like it that way. If they make it where my 1-2 person ships become basically impossible to survive a fight on your own I’ll be rather mad. How tf are you supposed to fight or escape while putting out fires and repairing shit?
the resource managment clip said a 1man ship would basically just blow up when a big ship would be crippled i think
This is the system that was always replacing health points. Now instead of your ship exploding at 0, if they hit critical components your ship is instead disabled.
Very excited for this! I’ve noticed a lot of players are more willing to man a turret or try bigger ships lately. People are realizing they gotta work together and get crews on this ships in the near future.
Also glad solo pilots can still fly solo if they choose, win win
Turret is fun, and im a shit Pilot, so If i can make Money fighting in ship Battles, without habing to fly one, im all for it
Honestly, I'm a sucker for crew gameplay, and this is a big thing I've been looking forward to. I want to be that guy down in Engineering yelling about how I'm "givin' her all she's got, Captain!" Or the copilot, handling power distribution and controlling missiles, or the captain overseeing the helmsman and giving orders to the rest of the crew. Stuff like that, which not a whole lot of games really offer unfortunately, so I'm really excited to see this get brought in!
true about the solo pilots but at the same time, a player should not be 100% cut off from a large section of the game if they are solo.. I have friends who play but not everyday.. i shouldnt have to find a new crew everyday just to get something accomplished. For instance, in a mole or a corsair or something midsized..
While being part of a crew is cool quite often I have found the captains to be annoying and just do what ever interests them so I just fly solo
@@capnplaidbeard hope you get to do this, sounds like you will in a few patches!
While I understand that itll be less efficient and more difficult to solo a multi-crew ship, I dont think its meant to be impossible. The way I understand their engineering, its just that you wont be able to maintain and repair on the go as a solo player. But as someone who plans on doing basic "non-pvp" stuff, I think the added engineering gameplay will actually make it fun and I welcome it. So like after a run or two of cargo hauling, I park my ship in my hangar and take 20-30 minutes to repair my ship, put the components to 100% health, etcetc. I know that if Im attacked, Im prolly screwed, but again, Im not there to fight battles either so either I successfully run away and lick my wounds or I die and thats it.
What it means is that you can fly anything solo, but against an organized squad of players, a solo ship is just a loot pinata.
I hope that you can crew your ships with NPCs even if at reduced capabilties . finding 8 people to play with all the time is not an easy task.
I would like to board my 600i for example and feel like i am playing mass effect andromeda on line with npc crew but still capabl;e of bringing aboard a human crew member . it will add to more dynamic game play that always requring everyone to be human.
I'm honestly more curious than excited for these changes. They do look interesting and promising, but I'm especially curious about how CIG will approach the big multicrew vs small fighter combat scenario.
I'm happy that they want to make bigger ships more resilient against fighters, but I'm apprehensive about the "small gun vs tank armor" statement that Yogi dropped. I do hope that they will make the big ships not entirely immune to S1 to S4 weapons in order to force groups to utilize specific anti-large ships in their setup, because I fear that this will lead to many capital and sub-capital 2 seaters, just for the benefit of being able to harass and bully newer players without having to fear retaliation.
It is a valid concern but something has to change with the large ships. I shouldn't be able to take out an Avenger Titan and wreck a Hammerhead with it. Likewise I don't feel that I should be able to chase an Idris in an Ion and solo it either. That is my opinion, but I think seeing a large ship like a Hammerhead or and Idris should be something that gives players pause and requires a group to take out. Right now there is no reason to be concerned if a HH shows up, just circle strafe to win. The biggest concern trying to solo an Idris is running out of ammo.
But again, this is just my opinion.
Also, based on the way the community operates now, if reports came in on global that there was a HH harassing a landing zone people would be on it like flies on shit. At least, anytime that I have been online and someone attempts to lock anything down(like PO) it's like the whole server takes it as a personal challenge and shows up. I imagine the full game will work similarly.
@@darkstar0000000000 Oh, I agree that a single fighter shouldn't be able to take out capital and sub-capital ships. That should simply be impossible.
But a whole squadron or wing of fighters should at least have the potential to be able to. I think that without dedicated ships like the Eclipse or the Ares it should take forever and provide the larger ship ample time to remove themselves before any real damage can occur but a Hammerhead shouldn't be able to just sit there without a worry while 12 to 200 Auroras are shooting at it, just because no one of the players had invested into a ship with S7 or bigger weaponry. At some point even a player with the biggest ship available should feel overwhelmed by the sheer amount of incoming fire, rather than being able to park it somewhere and just don't mind all those small ships shooting at it.
Or to provide another example, what would prevent a small org of wealthy people to use Hammerheads instead of Hurricanes against a bigger org with just starter ships or with at least limited access to anti-large weaponry for the sheer benefit alone that they are impervious to the small arms fire of the bigger orgs ships? Overwhelm them with so much mass per player that the bigger org is just unable to field enough anti-large weaponry. In reality large sea ships just can't be operated by a too small crew, but in the game this limit doesn't really exist.
And all of this is just exacerbated by the fact that at some point those orgs of billionaire kids can just buy enough UEC to command an army of NPCs around each one of them fielding their own Javelin.
As I said, I absolutely agree that we need to get away from the light fighter meta and that large ships should be invulnerable to a single light fighter, but at the same time we need to make sure that this correction won't sway entirely to the other side where it'll be more benefitial to field masses of only large ships just because they are impervious to everyone who can't bring a big enough gun.
I can't see how this will be a practical or enjoyable experience for orgs. This will push everyone towards a swarm of small ships unless they balance this in some way. Will players really want to play the engineer role, spending the whole battle staring at a screen and fixing relays?
Morph is projecting his own interest as a common thing. Most people want to play the daring space hero, not the chief engineer.
I won’t. None of this excites me at all as a mostly solo player. I feel like I’m going to be forced out of some of my ships like the Corsair
I had fun playing as an engineer in Guns of Icarus online. A good engineer who could make quick choices about prioritising and be efficient on your crew could really turn a fight around. But that game was group ship vs. group ships, and having more smaller fighters armed to the teeth while being elusive targets wasn't a thing.
I'm looking forward to these changes, and the balance that goes with them. Repairing ships during combat makes me think of SWG, but hopefully far less laggy. It's going to be quite important to have a crew that knows the working of the ship they're in.
@@nahbro3240 Well, like most MMOs, you can't simply jump in and do the toughest dungeon on the first day for all the elite gear. You build up your character over time, and indeed, the more time one has, the quicker that happens. As someone that used to work 12-hour days, 6-days a week, it wasn't easy to get in that gaming time back in the SWG days I mentioned above, and still get enough sleep each night.
In SC, if you have an expensive ship, that you put a lot of effort into getting, maintaining, and stocking full of high-end gear, you're going to want someone that's played the game, and knows what they're doing, and for key roles, like pilot, medic and engineer, you're going to want people that specialise in those fields, so you don't all wipe in the first 5-minutes. Luckily, there are a lot of smaller ships that we can learn on first, and get the basics, and find which professions/fields we wish to specialise in. There might not be typical classes in SC, but having experience in given roles will still be just as essential as in a game with classes.
As for orgs with too many rules, there are plenty of those already, but then there's also plenty that don't. There are also plenty that specialise, and I suspect that in the future, we'll see more orgs focused on specialisations such as engineer, pilot and such, that hire themselves out for crew, just like we see medic orgs now.
Because of these changes, I am certain that the largest ship I generally want to fly is a Perseus. And I'll be pretty happy with my Perseus. A big ol' simple gunship with shields and heavy armour and a minimal crew. (says it needs 6 but I can see these changes pushing the optimal number up to 8.)
Perseus is the only large ship I actually want to have
I was always thinking a bit in the line of Star Trek, when i look at the crew number of 6, i see the bare minimum, skeleton crew to operate a ship, then add shifts, so you have something like the Captain, Commander, and then Alpha and Beta shifts xD
Then you get closer to the real number of people for optimal flight i'd say, around perhaps 10-12 people, atleast in regards to Bigger ships ^^
Video starts at 2:30
I find it hilarious that everything is some sort of gun!! I get why, it’s easier to make a repair gun then to make a repair kit with all new mocap, but still funny. Reminds me of when Homer Simpson gets a gun! Gun (or Beam) Citizen!
This is why I’ve been using my Pledge money to build a fleet of my favorite small/medium ships rather than spending it all on something like an Endeavor or Idris. I predict that once all these systems come online, medium ships will pretty much be the upper limit of what you will be able to comfortably fly solo (including the use of AI blades/crew).
I do not think so. There are a lot of solo players with big ships who would all be really pissed that they spent so much money for nothing. And CIG couldn't excuse themselves because they've said in the past that solo players will also be able to fly large ships with NPC crew just less effectively.
Small ships use the same engineering system with components and nodes so they will need the same engineering even the vehicles as the storm use the same system
Im hyped for all these changes, its vital for the whole space battleship vibe.
My expectations are pretty tempered tho, I can't see this coming in 2024. Many large ships dont even have physicalized components, this requires also the maps and master modes to effectively work.
And having watched the interview with the engineering team, they really didn't sound like they were very far along.
A cool part about this is that a crew can also kind of get used to a ship, where they know its strenghts and weaknesses and where smth is likely to break or burn; they know they routes and all, adding a bit more of deepness and skill to the experience.
However, turrets also have to be manned, so it'll be interesting to see if some ships may get certain buffs or an increased crew capability, since some larger ones (Cat, C2,...) seem to be made to be operated by a rather small crew, considering their size.
CIG has stated this over and over - Players and NPCs can become specialized for given roels. Not new.
The problem is so many people own big ships that they want to fly their own. There's no need to join someone else's ship.
I think component classes will become very important. I'm guessing that military --> industrial --> civilian for the level of maintenance required. I'm guessing that if you run civilian components you won't have to do much maintenance other than combat repairs. If you run military you're going to be on those components constantly, but you will get a lot better performance.
Still fighters and vehicles use the same component and node system and same classes
CIG has stated this repeatedly - not new information.
If video games learn something after years of being made, it is that beyond 5 members into a group, you can't really be effective without needing a long planning and strong discipline (which mean you can't do it on daily basis and often need days to prepare). I think they will cool it down pretty early with the whole multicrew stuff, because it won't be playable 95% of the time and people still want to be their own captain and fly their own ship. Even more with the whole "physicalized inventory". Will you be ok to be a crew on the ship of a friend, if it mean you let all your ships and most of your belongings behind dozen of minutes if not hours quantum travels ?
I'm on two separate thoughts about this path that is being taken.
1. It's super cool that big ships will indeed require an actual serious crew to operate. I hope that their sheer power makes up for the fact that it's hard to get crew together at the same time to do stuff.
2. I'm autistic and not very good with people; I prefer playing either with close friends or alone. This means that I am highly unlikely to ever be able to use these cool, large ships unless I force myself to be social, which is very uncomfortable and already hard to deal with day-to-day, much less in a game where I want to enjoy myself. I hope that the ability to hire NPCs and employ turret blades come sooner rather than later; I love the idea of managing an AI crew even if they're nowhere near as efficient as players.
Ultimately it's a multiplayer game, player interaction plays a large part of the game itself. Depending on your tolerance for social interaction I'm betting repairing and maintenance will be lighter on interaction on large ships.
Did you play X4? I think it's a better SC
Wear and tear from just using the ship? Age affecting how well the ship flies? They're taking realism over fun.
Well.... I guess when the update hits, depending on how much impact this change has, I'm gonna melt my Corsair. None of my friends play SC and I rarely do multicrew. The changes make sense and are a great addition for multicrew gameplay, but it forces people who are not great with social skills out of their ship.
Yeah I’m not pleased at the implications this has for solo players. I like playing this game alone and rarely party with anyone. I also love my Corsair and will be pretty mad if I’m forced out of it because it’ll be impossible to manage on your own.
Depends.. do you use your Corsair solo for mainly PVP Combat?
@@hawkzulu5671Why would I? The corsair is not good at pvp, compared to most other ships in the same size class. And smaller, more nimble ships can easily outmaneuver it. I use it mostly for PvE. If I do PvP, it is usually in a light fighter.
we really need to get main tools now. the multi-tool is nice but with all these mechanics + improved salvaging/mining gameplay we really need tools with a main purpose.
THIS. I’m glad they’re dropping some of the hyper-realism and letting the multitool bridge a lot of gaps, but at this point both medical and engineering need their own dedicated tool lines. Having specific tools to go along with specific skills is what sets a medic or engineer apart from the other players and makes them far more valuable to a crew.
im excited to see this coming. But I will be more excited when I can hire NPCs to do the work because when I want to play SC, that doesnt always mean I have a crew of people who are ready to hop in my ship and do what I want to do.
This is why I got more than one capital class ship.
It's simply one of the features I'm looking most for since I watch Star Trek or Star Wars or whatever favorite SciFi series/movies you enjoy.
As long as there's no combat, there's not much to do. A gunner doesn't need to sit in the turret all day. There's no need to drive the systems at maximum. Most of the time you'll sit in the mess hall. The captain and some of the bridge crew are doing their jobs, nothing out of the ordinary. Suddenly you get raided: a wing of fighters including a torpedo bomber appear: "red alert! All hands to battle stations!" Turret gunners hop into their seats. Your chief engineer is pumping the reactor to maximum. Shields are up and ready. Weapon capacitors are charged. Let them come. You're just an engineer, responsible for the starboard section of your ship. Incoming fire, shields are holding. Nothing serious. Suddenly an explosion. Lights go dark, gravity fails. Thanks to the drill you're in your space suit already and magnetic boots are now a requirement. A nearby monitor gives you an idea what did happen: neighboring section got hit by something massive. "Torpedo", you guess. The door leading to that section won't open. You look through the window of the door and ... half of the room is missing. There is no fire. No one is in there. Just a massive hole, blackened walls and sparks of a dying circuit. Your section lost all power since the power lanes feeding yours had been obliterated. You remember your drill and give report. The chief now tells you to leave your section: nothing can be done there as no other power line is available. You need to go to another section, a fire is raging. The fire extinguisher will be your best friend for the next few minutes. You have no idea if the attackers are still out there and you don't care. If you and your comrades can't put out that fire, you're dead anyways.
Half an hour later things are quite again. The ship is still in one piece, more or less. All attackers left, as soon as the torpedo bomber was destroyed. Damage reports indicates two massive hull breaches. Only one of two reactors is still running. Life support is working and for some reason both, engines and Q-Drive, are still intact. The captain decides to limb back home. You have survived. But it was a close call.
That's what I want & expect from Star Citizen - even if you're just a lowly grease monkey, you still matter for your ship and your crew.
Maybe Im alone in this but it’s going way beyond the scope Im interested in. Im interested to have fun and not being occupied with tedious tasks and that’s what this will be. Not against repairing things ever so often but this? We have fire suppression systems now but wont in the future? Running around replacing fuses? This confuses me. I agree that things need to be in balance but I don’t think this is the way.
I think CIG just doesn’t really know how much WE are willing to do as far as tedious things are concerned. I don’t think they will make these systems so stringent that it makes solo players put the game down, maybe at first but as the feedback comes in and they see what people do or don’t like they will adjust it accordingly, just like with the recent timers on ships, they increased it too far a few months back and then eased up a little after some updates so i don’t think we gotta worry about the alienation of Solo players, I have faith they will remember us eventually haha.
I've been waiting for these features since they announced them in 2013. If you don't like the gameplay then like with most the physicalized features there are workarounds. In this case regularly pay for your ship's "oil change" and have the NPCs keep your ship pristine.
All that sounds awesome and I'm excited to check it out, but then what's going to happen is the same thing that always happens when I decide to start playing SC again. I will spool up to jump and then push B and nothing will happen and I'll have to turn off my engine, stand up, sit down, turn my engine back on and spool up again and align, repeat the process 5 or 6 times, get to my target finally and then kill it after taking some damage, go to a station to repair and it won't work due to some glitch so I'll have to turn off my engine, go in and store my ship, take it out again and hope that fixes the glitch and likely try that a few times. You get the idea. Expanding content like this is great and keeps me coming back, but I wish they would put some focus on fixing the basic issues that have been around forever and make me want to stop playing out of frustration in the first place.
I love this and envision players that dedicate the time to understand engineering will be in high demand.
I doubt you will find players for that often, if any really. If you wanna play an engineer there are better games for that and being tied to the captain is terrible for single player fun, you may be able to get a crew together for PvP events if these ships are worth it but I highly doubt that will even be the case.
Honestly while I find the idea cool, the game won't be much fun for people who dedicate their time to these kinds of roles as you are completely dependent on other players for your fun.
Why not have your own ship and engineer around there Eis you like that part of the game?
In all hoensty I think this system will crash and burn haaaaard, like many in theory cool systems this game has but are in reality stuff most players won't wanna Deal with. like I wanna be excited for the game but the more ai see the more I think, wait so this is basically working in space, I just don't earn any money from it? Well it's impressive but I won't be having fun with these mechanics.
In all honesty I think the single player game will be pretty good if they focus correctly on the right mechanics, but the MMO portion seem like it will be a terrible game to play, even if it's full of cool and impressive systems every nerd (me included) always wanted but realizes that implemented they just aren't fun.
@@dariusgunter5344 I mean nothing stops you from having your own fighter and use it when you play solo, and have an RP engineer job on a big ship when you want to.
@@dariusgunter5344there will be many people to play that role. You underestimate the nerdyness of ppl, see EVE Online.
@dariusgunter5344 this is where player orgs come into play. You are correct when it comes to dealing with the public, but for orgs it will be a whole different situation.
Lets also not forget, that NPC crews will be a thing, and players will fill whatever positions their interested in
Bruh I’m a solo player. I hope CIG doesn’t cater to solos. The entire point of being a line wolf is adapting to circumstances to fit your needs. In reality one person can’t drive a naval warship or submarine so why expect to Fly an intergalactic space ship solo?
This change is so exciting! I'm glad that they're specifically trying to make it more fun and that it's a benefit to have a crew rather than a necessity!
Fun can mean different things to different people.
Fun to you might be simple shooting thinking it's more fun to do less work.
An org or group with a fully manned well trained crew and micromanaging will probably outgun a unskilled crew or a ship with AI,blades,and NPC and consider it all fun because of working together to accomplish things.
I have met these type of players and Orgs at Citizencon and they are serious. Many of you are in for a big surprise later.
Some of you may have to stay in your lane and get someone to fight you more at your level if you can with that mindset.
Though I'm more kind of a lone wolf, and my aim is to be an intrepid helper, I'm really happy that ships like the Idris or Carack will be just "big ships with shiny interior and huge layouts", but that they will become functional and require a "lived in" gameplay loop to maintain.
I wonder how this will translate to me being in my syulen and make sure it will maintain smooth operation on long travels too.
Hope they add LTI npc crew pack soon :)
We'll get them when we get ''Custom Ship Paints''. CIG will not rush out NPC Crew over money spending backers, you will never be able to crew a ship fully with NPC, it will reduce player base, not happening whatever you think.
03:00 Do we have any additional incite as to how the repair room of the Carrack is intended to work and be of actual benefit? It looks like handheld repair tools can fix the sized items that would fit in the repair machine door. Maybe just that ~size 2 and smaller modules don't need a repair tool to fix? Does the Carrack have small enough components to even get repaired there? Maybe mostly subcomponents?
All of this is so good. I just pray that CIG , in chasing realism don’t take away the fun factor becasue , in the end this is still a game and I don’t wanna end up doing 100 things to keep my ship running.
Agreed. I love the idea of having to do repairs and maintenance on my ship after a long fight, but if every encounter results in 10 fires and malfunctioning components mid fight then the fun factor will be almost completely gone.
There needs to be some kind of "looking for crew" job board that's not based on organisations.
I'd happily pay wages to people crewing my ship, but it's a hassle to have to arrange it manually via the in-game chat.
Morphologis, you're falling into the trap of thinking all of this is coming out Soon when it's really coming out Soon(TM)... CIG often shows concept videos of features that never come out.
How long has the ballistic ammo rebalance been going on?
Anyone left alive that remembers component variation?
The problem the Hammerhead, in particular, runs into as a "screening ship" is the weapon ranges you have to almost be landed on any ship you are going to screen and you cant' screen a convoy or fleet with it. It is too easy to go around it. More importantly, though crewing it is likely to be more difficult than people assume.
In most MMO's putting together a 4 person party is simple, while putting together an 8 to 16 person raid tends to take an hour or more to assemble and organize. And that is without the hurry up and wait and travel times that Chris Roberts seems to want to bake into Star Citizen. While 16 person, or larger raids can be a blast, and a rewarding player experience, it is the exception, not the rule. (The City fights in Warhammer Fantasy Role Playing were amazing but a real PITA to get set up right.)
I am intentionally keeping crew requirements small in my fleet. Only one ship is to have a crew larger than 3 (In my case, at the moment, a Retaliator). The downside to having a ship like a Hammerhead, Retaliator, or even more so, Polaris, Idris or Javelin, is putting together a crew takes time.
Imagine having 150 players on a javelin in battle against a load idris’ would be epic….. error code 30000
wasnt the players to npc ratio always supposed to be 9npc to a player? :O
For large components, I’d love to see a replacement factor included. Carrying spare parts on the ship for engineering purposes is definitely a good move. Moreover, when tuning, it should create additional wear on parts especially if using an item outside of its rating capabilities.
Fighters and vehicles use the same system and cant carry spares only stations and cruicibles got the repair for those
if they plan to implement this, and force multicrew for larger ships, they better implement that new damage tech , and armor system that will keep the larger ships from being flying coffins. Right now the ttk is way to low for multicrew ships.
FYI, this was always the plan. None of this is a surprise, and anyone who thought they could comfortably solo their gigachad Javelins were told often and loudly by the community over the years.
People were running engineering drills on the deck of Port Olisar, and recruiting and allocating engineering roles for their orgs, since back when Port Olisar was the only location in the game. Engineering and requiring multiple crew members to manage big ships was Always a thing that is coming one day.
@@MastaSquidge I didn't say it wasn't. I'm just saying there is tech they are going to implement that would make multicrew ships worth crewing. Because right now it makes more sense to fly 3-4 separate smaller ships vs loading up into one big ship because of how fragile they are. Cig plans to change the way damage is done to where certain sizes guns cannot damage certain types of materials/armors and that , imo, should be implemented before implementing engineering if you want people to actually use it, otherwise if you're just stuck in a fragile space coffin with low ttk people will just fly their own ships individually, as it makes more sense currently. Especially in terms of combat.
As long as fixing everything will still work while in a fully functional space port or space station still works, I’m ok with it. I’m ok with the idea that you fuel is not you main expense to run large ship.
So they are wanting to make larger ships more popular by making them harder to use and less accessible. Makes sense.
Or more effective, but requiring investement in organisation and co-operation. Making it more of an interactive experience.
@@ShitzGiggles Star Citizen Servers cap around 50 people. Coordinating a group of more than 5 is a massive pain in the ass in real life. So if you have a capital class ship that needs about 15 people to run efficiently, you have a full 5th of that server with you, and that's even if you can convince those 15 people to play with you.
I'm imagining an Expanse scenario: battle is about to start and they vent the air / shut off life support to divert all energy to shields, weapons, and maneuvering.
I wonder if the Carrack will be considered a Military or Civilian ship (it being ex-military) in the new component classification system.
Those battles were very realistic though and combat occurred at insane distances using mainly missiles and point defense to shoot down incoming missiles heavily controlled by onboard computers compared to this game where its all point blank ww2 fighter pilot and sounds like ww2 naval ship combat style. Plus they had access to nukes =P I think Expanse ships would walk all over even the largest ships in the SC universe =P Fancy ships even got railguns from memory.
My main concern is i dont want features to be added solely to make the game more tedious and annoying
But i do hope this makes traversing and travelling with ships more engaging, like giving you something to do in QT
But all in all, i think this is a good move. As it is right now, i can easily imagine everyone using massive ships as solo/duo fighters, so adding this system will make large ships a more rare sight, and give that rare sight actual reason, since that ship will probably have a good crew on board
My main concern is how will CIG make multi crew advantageous over running multiple ships, eg 1 ship with 5 crew vs 5 ships with 1 crew each. Which will earn more when you take away cost of repair, maintenance, fees, fuel and ammo?
Although I'm looking forward to the engineering gameplay and if CIG's iteration of "gamified fun" comes to fruition, I'd be happy to be someone's "fixer-upper" and 2 out of the 3 engineering roles really appeal to me. The only part I don't understand is that you can't fully power your ship, I get underpowering to conserve components and mitigate some wear and tear, also I get that when your powerplant is damaged you'll need to make sacrifices or when you don't have a Grade A powerplant or when EVERY other component is Grade A, but the fact you don't have enough juice to run your ship seems weird to me
Really looking forward to engineering gameplay and there being more stuff to do when crew on a big ship. It's going to be so much fun :)
nope
I sure hope they do a quality pass on older ships like the vanguards before requiring componet swaps. As the large components in the cockpit cannot even fit through the doorway.
Star Citizen is such a weird game for me. I do own it and I do like it but I almost never play it. I really love the Idea of the Game and always keep up to date with the game. But I rarely start it. Am I alone with this?
Not at all. I pretty consistently keep up with it. But only start it up once a year
I hope to see industrial ships like the Reclaimer having massively thick hulls, making them virtually immune to damage from anything less than a size 5 gun or a missile.
It would compensate for the lack of manoeuvrability.
Also, ballistics should punch through a hull, rather than destroying a patch like energy weapons.
If the hole causes depressurisation, then those areas will need to be sealed off or suits & helmets worn.
If the ballistic hits a component, then it absolutely destroys it.
Welding a hole can restore the atmosphere, but a component hit by ballistics cannot be repaired at all.
So ballistic weapons cause precise and massive damage, but a near miss just makes a hole in the ship.
Energy weapons cause more widespread damage, but less penetration and less hull damage.
Also, hiring player crew will start to be an option. Server meshing is required.
I remember a time when 2 pilots in small fighters locked down a station and were killing everyone who dared come near. 9 of us decided to man two hammerheads to take them out. Well, it takes 45 minutes to gather everyone up and board the two vessels, and the two griefers wait around for us. We quantum in and both hammerheads are dead in less than 45 seconds. I hope this changes that.
taking a bunch of smaller ships over bigger ships is already the pvp meta, now it will be even more the meta lmao. no idea why cig keeps making changes like this, just for large combat ships to be absolutely useless
Because it is fun
They won't be useless at all. Once armour and the weapons rework comes in, small weapons vs. thick armour will be far less effective and efficient. You'll still be able to overwhelm players who make poor choices like undercrewing a ship or expecting to take on a group of skilled players with only AI crew though.
The armor rework seems to suggest otherwise. Iirc, they explicitly said they want a Hammerhead to be pretty much invulnerable to size one guns, for example.
I think people forget that fighters and vehicles also use the same components and node system so they kinda will need engineering just as much as the larger ones diffrence is size 1,2 components can be replaced in space while 3,4 will need to be towed
I have a feeling that this is going to get old quick.
CIG needs to implement a match making/job board service in the game. The time it takes for people (random rather then Corp) to collect, prep, deploy and find a mission for the large ships is crazy. If you accept a job req, you should teleport onto the ship ready to go. Spending 1.5 hours flying to a collection location, getting gear, deploying, finding a mission... Is like 1+ hours of prep for 15 minutes of action... Which may be many people entire night of gaming. (Understand this is against the SC vision and AC will have this, but I think PU should also streamline this to focus on real people rather than NPC crews).
This was always a writing on the wall, and absolutely made me stay away from large ships as I am a solo player. The largest boat in my fleet is the MSR, which I do hope I'll be able to crew alone or with some AI or just blades.
I’ve got an MSR and as long as you try to avoid a fight you should be fine
I don't wanna seem to be negative on this forthcoming gameloop. But l feel l have to point out that a vast contingent of gamers have family responsibilities jobs careers etc and play solo because they cannot find the time to commit to orgs and multiplay.
Granted if there was a mechanic ingame whereby they could join a crew "live" seeking engineers gunners co pilots etc this would greatly aid the pessimism I feel. Currently there is no such mechanism ingame for recruitment of crew aside from main chat.
This needs to be addressed.
While its fine as a placeholder, I *REALLY* hope they move away from everything being a beam when it comes to interactivity.
Big Ships with full interior were the reason I backed SC, I went straight to a BMM as "my ship" to the point that I waited with backing SC until I was sure to be able to obtain a BMM at it's low price (back then, over the years I managed to further reduce the price to about 120-130$ for a BMM).
CIG does love to make small things sound big... the option to buff weapons based on their mount isn't new tech at all. The Distance for weapons is calculated by velocity and lifetime of the projectile, so all you have to do is code a "on equip" switch and copypaste your projectile like M5A and M5A_Turret, buff the turret one accordingly and you got the buff... that's not "new technology".
CIG already cashed in heavily with powercreep on small ship's offensive capabilities, to the point where it became meaningless as everything could delete everything in seconds anyway, thus making agility the primary balance point. For obvious reasons, this didn't help the already semi-obsolete "big ships".
The last time a "big ship" was in a dominant position was the Redeemer by virtue of having much longer ranges and this also made it vastly superior to the much bigger Hammerhead, and CIG nerfed it's agility while nerfing ranges in general.
The "resistance against weapons" is a old concept, CIG actually did give us a concrete example, which got mostly ignored: On the Perseus Q&A, it was stated that the S7 guns are effective against large ships and "critical areas" on capital ships. They also stated that even the Perseus's super-heavy large ship armor is weaker than the lightest (890?) cap ship armor, hence why the Polaris and BMM going capital might be a much bigger deal than some think.
Sounds too good to be true for big ship owners... and it possibly is. Because assuming the following balance:
Cap ships: S7 for weakpoints, S8 to penetrate armor
large ships: light: S4, medium: S5, heavy: S6, Perseus: S7 to penetrate armor
medium ships: light: s1, medium s2, heavy: s3
small ships: light: pistols, medium: rifles, heavy: s0
(I think components of lighter armored large ships and below would be vulnerable to most/all ship weapons)
A very large portion of ships would be obsolete for general combat and traditional fighters would be mostly relegated to combat against torpedo bombers and each other... I doubt players would put up with those restrictions outside of organized groups with dedicated squadrons for various tasks.
10:20 the way I interpret it, it's more the type of the weapon that matters... (though the size also affects it).
repeaters would be less effective for example than cannons against armor
which is as it should be, the repeaters are supposed to be rapid firing small bore guns, they logically shouldn't be as effective as large bore cannons for punching through armor because that's how it was for us assuming both were using the same type of ammo...
this would also fix the problem in SC right now where there's no point for the other gun types... like why would anyone previously use cannons over repeaters? they wouldn't really... because it doesn't give you any real benefit to choose cannons over repeaters. If armor actually mattered and the cannons are more effective then it finally can give it some actual use.
Remembering all those Star Trek episodes where someone shouts something "Warp core off line! Reroute auxiliary power to shields! Engineering, get the main engines back online!"
I find this super cool and exciting. I can't wait to get my friends together and sit there and say, "engage!" all to nerd out over star trek and feel cool
I for one am really happy with this change. You can just get in a Hammerhead with full crew and boom and zoom/turn fight like a fighter and it kinda ruins the whole thing of having a larger ship. Also the Idris Events where it just dances around kinda kills it, so larger ships having to stay in position more rather then just Top Gun manouver is gonna be great!
Also the engineering part is really cool, this could make larger ships much more fun to fly besides just shitting in turrets for most of the people, or you can bring extra people in for engineering