I worked out the 2021 results if the finishing order was reversed for each race (last place finisher gets 25, second last gets 18, etc etc, DNFs get nothing) and I found that Mazepin DNFed so often that Schumacher won the title by 12 points
Interesting. Ironically, only one of Mazepin's 6 DNFs were actually his fault, and it was Turn 3 of Race 1. Later on he had 2 mechanical retirements in the Netherlands and Monza, got crashed into by Kimi after Alfa released their car too early from his pit box, got brake-checked by Russell who was trying to avoid all the carnage in Saudi and got COVID in Abu Dhabi. Also, how did you count people that didn't finish the race, but were classified, like Gasly in Bahrain for example?
@bartoszwitkowicz6704 honestly, that's the craziest stat about him. He might have been slow, but he wasn't crash prone...apparently. I find that hard to believe.
@@hiimemily only if everyone finishes. DNF should lower the points for a win. Could get weird in the last few races to take a tactical dnf to reduce the points of whoever is in front
Funny how you can make up some ridiculous point system based on Balatro and SMB, and it is still easier to understand than Nascars classification/point system … thing
If you watch and follow NASCAR enough, it *starts* to make sense, although I prefer the Winston points system. It's just annoying to explain the current system. to everyone.
It's not that it's complicated, it's more like "why..?", like how exactly this system is the best way to find out who was the best driver in the season?
@@konepe1653 To put it simply, it doesn't. NASCAR noticed that TV ratings in the back-half of the season were dipping and saw the success of the "playoffs" that other American sports leagues like the NFL and MLB have enjoyed. It's designed solely for the last race to have 4 drivers compete for the championship in a "final round" type showdown. The guy arguably most deserving of the championship could make it all the way there (or possibly not even make it at all) and lose due to even the smallest stroke of bad luck. It's not fair, but it creates a good story, and that's what they're looking for. There's a reason that NASCAR is seen as the WWE of motorsports.
@@JohnSmith-mk5jt I guess that makes sense. The one good thing about it is that seasons like 2023 still have a chance to be somewhat interesting in the back half.
WHAT IN THE HELL IS THAT NASCAR POINTS SYSTEM?!?!?!?? The IMSA one is unfair for people who have just been crashed into. i.e. anyone who is unfortunate enough to have a car bad enough to have been racing Stroll....
I do understand the NASCAR one, it makes sure the champion is always decided in the final race so there's always a reason to watch them all. Is it fair? no. But is it fun? yeah I quite like it
@@MrVsGarage it is relatively fun in theory but I just tune out mentally once the playoffs come. They just suck a lot of enjoyment out of the sport for me "Wrestling is entertainment pretending to be a sport, NASCAR is a sport pretending to be entertainment"
The IMSA points system gives points to all starters though based on how many laps completed, not just classified finishers, so actually the analysis is wrong here. Max's DNFs would still have still scored loads of points.
@@MrVsGarage By understanding the NASCAR system, you are doing far better than NASCAR fans anymore Don't even get us started on "playoffs waivers" or the last race of the 'regular season' being a complete lottery ticket
Imagine thinking of some of the most bonkers points systems based on random video game logic and still not being able to create a more ridiculous points system than NASCAR...
Time for the scrabble point system, points are given based on the name of the race (full name so "Formula 1 Qatar Airways Gran Premio del Made in Italy e dell'Emilia-Romagna 2023" is used) then remove the last word or letter for every position down the grid
I actually love this. Alternatively, you could get your total race time spelled out in words "one hour twenty three minutes nineteen seconds point eight eight one" which of course is 56 points
@@EdisonTheFox date of the race gives the letters that get counted extra! Amount of times the number appears gives the multiplikator. So since all the races were held in 2021(duh), the 2nd letter is always at least a triple score (possibly more if a race is held on the 2nd of a month.)
In your explanation of Nascar stage points, you forgot about the Coca-Cola 600, which has four stages. Also, some nascar races (Portland Xfinity 2024, for example) are divided evenly. Man, I love America.
It makes sense if each race is not the same length. F1 races are all the same distance except 1 which is shorter (Monaco) so I couldn't really choose which one to get 4 stages..
As a nascar fan, I can tell you that the majority of nascar fans absolutely hate the playoff system and wish we could go back to the Winston cup one (which was basically indycar's but with a few different values) The day nascar abolishes the playoffs will be the greatest day of my life
@duncachinoahimiha3889 It actually took that long because Larson and HMS said they'd prioritize Charlotte if weather came up, and then they didn't. HMS also didn't even apply for the waiver until Wednesday or Thursday
I believe it was NASCAR’s chairman who, the weekend after the sport’s most popular driver won his first race, stole headlines after he got arrested for driving under the influence of several substances.
@@mattsisoler6125 this was truly a turning point for nascar, cause after he was arrested and obv lost his position as CEO, nascar's decline stopped and things started to get better for the first time in many years He truly ruined nascar and I'm so glad he's out of the picture (He was the one to invent this bullshit system)
In the mario point system you should get 100 point for takeing out a other driver. If you take out a second driver you get 200 for 300 total. Same order the stomping points. So it would go 100, 200, 400, 500, 800, 1,000, 2,000, 4,000, 5,000, 8,000, 1up. Takeing out 10 drivers would give you 22000 points.
I did start on something like that and also making a Burnout inspired one that is all about crashes, but not every crash is a DNF straight away so where do you draw the line. And also if the whole season is just crash points then Bottas wins the title in Hungary
Diehard, longtime NASCAR fan here. When they announced that playoff points system, the first thing I thought was "how the hell am I supposed to explain that to a human."
I would like to propose the 'Scrabble System'. Take the name of the grand prix, and the number of points each letter in the name scores in Scrabble is how many points you get for finishing in that position. Win the Azerbaijan grand prix? Nice! 1 point for you (A). Finish second, though, and you get 10 (Z).
Rally stage system? Scoring being the total time over the season if you finish (laps can be simulated based on relative positions to the next car at the point of the chequered flag (or the lap before if they finish after you), plus 3 minutes per lap not completed). Champion is lowest time.
I think you make it simple and just say that a DNF is a flat 2 hours. Although that does make a DNF in Singapore is no big deal but a DNF at Monza is a disaster.
@@DanielHarveyDyer yeah I was trying to balance things a bit more fairly whilst making Monaco particularly punishing to reward the skill of keeping it out of the barriers
Your knowledge about the point systems across all eras is at this point surely on par to that of a grand master at their field ! This was a veryy fun video, I genuinely enjoyed it a lot, the opening was funny and the pace was just right through out the video to make sure the info isn't overwhelming, nor boringly slow ! nailed this one mate, keep it up !
Thank you. I spend a while in the edit for this one exactly that, making sure the pace was nice. There's whole chunks I had to cut out but I'm happy I did
Ive been running something very similar to your eel champioship pretty much since 2007. Only we start several races in to the season so the final race is actually the final race of the season. Me and a few friends and family actually place bets on who will be eliminated each race. We work it out that the chassis is essentially eliminated so if someone stands in for you at a race your relying on them to do well. It also allows us to account for mid season team changes. When sprints were introduced we added a new rule that winning the sprint granted you immunity from being eliminated in the next race.
How about an ELO-based points system where everyone starts with 1000 points, and the top 10 gain points and the bottom 10 lose points? The more points you have, the less you stand to gain but the more you stand to lose, with DNFs netting you the maximum possible amount of points lost. Fastest lap gains… I don’t know… 5 elo?
Eventually the UA-cam Algorithm leads to Mr V's Garage. One of the few professional vids on F1. Oscars for best Microphone, best Watch, best Haircut, and best Shirt.
You can tell this man is a professional because he's using Super Mario Bros. instead of Mario Kart Also, 1239 laps times 20 drivers means 24780 data entries, minus a couple for lapped drivers finishing one lap earlier. I sincerely hope you found a way to automate this. Otherwise, absolute madlad.
points every lap was actually the quickest out of all of them. I already had a massive databse of everyone's position every lap, so I just had to vlookup the points table and countif by driver name, took like 30 seconds 😂
I have an idea for a new, albeit horrific, points system (in this system, sprints are non-championship races, and there would be no fastest lap points in the post season): In 2021, the points are normal for the first 17 races. Then, the first 4 drivers at that time, here Verstappen, Hamilton, Bottas and Perez, are temporarily removed from the post-season, whereas the other 16 drivers are separated into a tournament system, where the 5th and 6th placed drivers would duel and whoever finished ahead in Mexico would progress, the 7th and 8th and so on, before in Brazil whoever'd won the 5th and 6th duel would then duel the winner of the 7th and 8th duel, and so on down the grid. Then for the next race, that system would continue, but the top 4 drivers would be added back in, with 1st and 2nd dueling and 3rd and 4th dueling in Qatar before the winner dueled in Saudi Arabia, before the winner of the non-top 4 would duel the winner of the top 4 duels for the championship. The other top 4 drivers would be guaranteed between 3rd and 5th, while the other non-top 4 drivers would finish between 16th and last. Kubica would not be included. Here are the standings: #20: Mick Schumacher #19: Antonio Giovinazzi #18: Nicholas Latifi #17: Yuki Tsunoda #16: Esteban Ocon #15: Fernando Alonso #14: Daniel Ricciardo #13: Lando Norris #12: Nikita Mazespin - I swear I am not joking. This system is insanely unfair, which is why Ocon, Alonso, Riccardo, Norris and Mazespin are all so low. #11: Lance Stroll #10: Sebastian Vettel #9: Carlos Sainz #8: George Russell #7: Pierre Gasly #6: Kimi Räikkönen #5: Valtteri Bottas #4: Max Verstappen #3: Sergio Perez #2: Charles Leclerc #1: Lewis Hamilton
poor excel, in every mr v video gets abused badly for "science" :( btw these kind of videos are probably the most difficult to make for the data behind but are also the most interesting and fun to watch
thank you, and yes they do take a little while with between the planning and then interpereting data into a script and then editing too, I think it's worth it though!! and don't feel bad for excel, it loves being abused like this, it's kinky like that
IndyCar has the best points system. I prefer points for every position because it encourages more fighting throughout the field and it gives more incentive to not retire from the race. A race at the Indy Road Course is a good example when one of the drivers had his gearbox damaged from an incident on the first lap and after fixing it they went back out despite being in last place and 12 laps down they ended up gaining 3 positions and valuable points because others dropped out. If it was F1 they probably would have just given up after the lap 1 incident.
@@nickb2049 AFAIK Indycarsa are a lot tougher generally than F1 cars. It would be hard to render safe in many cases because one part relies on another that relies on another and so on.
Tetris points system: You get points for how many cars you cause to DNF (like clearing lines), up to 4 in a single incident (yourself included because why not). The amount of points you get increases with each lap. For practicality, we could just say that if the stewards determined a driver to be at fault for an incident, they would get all the points for that incident. If multiple drivers were determined to be at fault, they would all receive the points. If no drivers are determined to be at fault, such as with a first lap incident, then all involved get the points. If someone retired due to a mechanical failure, they get no points but their team does.
NASCAR fan here. We haven’t had a real champion in ten years. We manually keep track of who “should” be the champion ever year. Kevin Harvick won a quarter of the races in 2020 and finished fifth. Help
i’m mildly interested in nascar, who are the real star drivers? with the points system and that playoff thing that exists, it’s hard to tell who’s the best without having actually watched a lot of races
The thing with the points systems in America, and this applies to IMSA, IndyCar and NASCAR, is that you get points for merely STARTING the race; if you DNF you still get the points in the position you'd be classified in, e.g. Hamilton and Verstappen would still have got points for finishing 17th and 18th respectively at Monza despite retiring from that race.
and? "if you DNF you still get the points in the position you'd be classified in" yes, you get points where you are classified at the end of the race, why is that a problem?
@@nickb2049because you don’t need to be classified in the same way you need to be classified in F1, it actually reduces the amount of points a driver has earned that what they would have earned in reality, if you crash out on the opening lap, you receive points equal to last place on the grid, or whichever finishing position you would have if multiple cars crash out Plus DNSes in IndyCar are worth 1/2 points
@@insertcolorherehawk3761 And it's little details like that that make a difference in the championship standings, though it doesn't look like it made a difference as to who won the title in these universes. The Supercars Championship has a nice middle ground I think. It awards points for every position (which I've never been a big fan of) but there are two big caveats: 1) You have to have completed at least 75% of the race distance in order to be classified, so there is a bit of wiggle-room if you have a major issue 2) You have to actually physically cross the finish line. For example, say you're just three laps from the end of the race and you have a mechanical failure that means you have to retire. That's tough luck, it goes down as a DNF and no points. An example to visualise the latter point: In the 1999 Bathurst 1000 the last two classified finishers (the cars of Nathan Pretty and Andrew Fawcett (21st) and Peter Field and Shane Howison (22nd) had completed 134 out of 161 laps. Five cars that offically DNF'd behind them had completed more laps than them; for instance, Tony Longhurst and Adam Macrow's car retired on their 150th lap!
Yeah, i was a bit confused when he didnt give them points for IMSA NASCAR and Indycar despite DNFing. I had no idea that was a rule in non American series
The audacity to choose the 2021 season 💪🏼, risking comments, trolls, countless discussions, or worse, regardless of what the conclusion may be. This must be your best episode, by far, and I’m just at 1:43 😂 Anyway, well done I’m hooked. 😃
@@MrVsGarage but... Max wins using almost any system so maybe it might shut those people still crying out loud about the outcome of the season up for a bit.... So I approve..
Gotta love how the whole Nascar season is just a giant qualifying for a race in which starting in front means next to nothing anyways... I'm actually disappointed that you didn't try WEC or Mario Kart or MotoGP or Gran Turismo or Australian V8s or F-Zero or Brazilian Stock Cars or Wipeout or Argentinian Super TC2000 or Need for Speed or TCR or Burnout or World Rally Championship or... There's so many systems to choose from. I suspect you ran some of those and the results were not as interesting, but you could very well have another round of this coming.
I wonder what it would look like with the current WRC system. Give the Power Stage points in qualifying, then give the equivalent of the Saturday points at 75% distance and the Sunday points just for the times for the last 25% or something.
Burnout and WRC were originally in the video. Burnout was cut because I had to ask the question "what is a crash" which is way too philosophical, and WRC just wasn't interesting
@@MrVsGarage Burnout would be a great video on its own, though. A takedown would have to award massive points (or massive time advantage, say, 10 to 30 seconds per car taken out for drivers who crash into others and still finish their races, since in game it awards speed boosts), so all of a sudden Mansell would be a multichampion, Schumacher and Senna would have even more titles... Could Bottas be a contender in 2021?! And who caused that Big One before Eau Rouge at Spa again? I can only imagine the kind of crazyness that could come of it. However, that would require a tally of all crashes ever recorded, who was involved, and perhaps the time tables for every grand prix. As a special it certainly has potential, but it may or may not be a little too much. :) Even if by some werid coincidence nothing changes in the standings, the story of each season narrated Burnout style could certainly make for some great entertainment.
Or that with everyone getting as many points as seconds behind are the others. Everybody down to the 19th gets points. You'd need to choose a one-off sum for getting ahead people that didn't finish. You could also do a one-off once a driver has been lapped, instead of keeping on counting the seconds.
Everyone knows Max deserved to win the 2021 championship, but Lewis deserved to win Abu Dhabi. Max had a better overall season, but because of 2 accidents he was tied with Lewis at the end. Maybe it would have been more fair to see who would win the championship if Lewis still won Abu Dhabi.
This simply isn’t true at all. Max drove illegally for most of the season. It’s just the FIA / stewards lost control. There’s a reason so many new rules were introduced in 2022… because of Max
There is always that 1 delusional guy that cannot accept it. Even though there is enough evidence for it all. And make up some random stuff to back up his statement. I´m here for it what else they have to say.
the current points system in f1 is probably the best ever id say,fairness with consistency somewhat but also awarding the winner by 7 extra points honestly this video was very entertaining to watch, haven't seen a video as fun as this in a while
I used the F1 points system used from 2003-2009 on the 2021 F1 championship (including sprint points and fastest lap points), and heres how it turned out: 1. Max Verstappen (171 points) 2. Sir Lewis Hamilton (166 points) 3. Valtteri Bottas (96 points) 4. Sergio Perez (76 points) 5. Charles Leclerc (62.5 points) 6. Carlos Sainz (62 points) 7. Lando Norris (61 points) 8. Daniel Ricciardo (44.5 points) 9. Pierre Gasly (41.5 points) 10. Fernando Alonso (26 points) 11. Esteban Ocon (23 points) 12. Sebastian Vettel (16 points) 13. Yuki Tsunoda (10 points) 14. Lance Stroll (9 points) 15. George Russell (5 points) 16. Kimi Raikkonen (2 points) 17. Nicholas Latifi (2 points) 18. Antonio Giovinazzi (0 points) 19. Mick Schumacher (0 points) 20. Robert Kubica (0 points) 21. Nikita Mazepin (0 points) Main Differences: Leclerc finishes 5th in the standings rather than 7th, which means Sainz & Norris finish 6th & 7th respectively instead, and Tsunoda outscores Stroll unlike with the current F1 drivers standings.
I think what most people forget about 2021 is that up until Qatar we thought the championship was basically over It were only for Mercedes' miracle triple win streak for the title battle to go to Abu Dhabi in the first place but in general it was no doubt that Verstappen had been more consistently at the front I liked this quote from after Abu Dhabi 2021 : "Hamilton deserved Abu Dhabi, Verstappen deserved the championship"
We all know that the 2021 controversy is more to do with FIA regulations and other such boring matters but this video is a lot funnier than that video would be!
now I'm really wanting one for seasons like 2010, 2012, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 1999, 1998. Many seasons to test these points out I think it would be great to see if you ever have the time. Great video btw!
the nascar point system used to be so much simpler. go back before "the chase" was introduced, now called the playoffs. the 1975-2003 points system is the last simple system to be used.
@@andresmartinezramos7513 He started tweeting again this year, I think it might have been something to do with mental health/burnout though, would be really nice to see his videos return
Your talking numbers skills are second to none. I like all your videos, but the numbery ones are my favorite. The most shocking part of the video is where you make me realize that 1988 is about halfway through. It seems wrong, since one is obviously about 50 years ago and the other one about 15, but then I realized that I'm just old and stopped counting when I was a teenager : /
Point system proposal: For each weekend the drivers are going to get rewarded in 3 different occasions. Firstly, at the end of qualifying and then at the end of the race with the final positions and with the personal fastest laps. Starting with the reward of the position a driver gets at the end of the race: Each driver at the end of the race gets points based on the number of points the driver right behind got + an added amount for the time gap there is between them. Every thenth of a sec is equivalent to one point, and the time gets always rounded up to the next bigest thenth, to make sure that in case of a close finish (let's say 0,041sec), the driver in front gets 1 pt more. Here lapped cars get 0pt here and the firts to get awarded points beeing the last non lapped driver gets instead a number of points equivalent to the amount given to the drive that gets the fastest lap. In case the driver with the fastest lap is also the last non lapped car, it gets awarded the points for fastest lap and then once more, wiche means that if he gets awarded 25pt for fastest lap, at the end of the race he finishes with a combined 50pt. Note: (1,0 sec = 10pt; 1,5 sec = 15pt; 1,6 sec = 16pt; 0,2 sec = 2p…) For example: If the last point worthy position is 13th, (because 14th place got lapped from the leader), the gap between them is exactly 2,000sec and the driver with the fastest lap got 19pt the 13th would get 33pt, while 14th -13pt. On the other hand, if we assume as well that the gap between 12th and 13th is 5,622 sec then 12th whould get 33pt+57=90pt Note that: 5,622 sec gets rounded up to 5,7 sec; Then for qualifying position reward, the scoring system would work in the following way: At the end of Q1 all drivers get selected and then, similarly to what’s done in the race scoring system, by calculating the time gap between the cars infornt we attribute points exept that the last car gets 0pt. In Q2 the same ting appens again, but istead only from the 13th place (inclusiding 13th) drivers get rewarded more points. Finaly in Q3 only the top 7 get selected and 6th beeing the first to get points. If a driver gets penalised in qualifing, it's points at the end of the week end get converted to 0, altdough the driver infront still beneficts the points the penalised driver supposedly should have got. Note: Here as you can imagine the points given are much less, as of course, the gaps in qualifying tend to be much smaller than in a race, and since this system is designed to always give the driver in front at least 1pt more than you, in the closest gaps scenarios in Q3, the 1st would still get at least 8pt from it. If in any of the 3 sessions of qualifing, drivers fail to put down laps, let's say that in Q1 tree drivers have broken cars, then the last of the ones that got a valid lap gets 0pt and from him onwards points get awarded. Finaly for fastest laps attempts during a race, it works basically like qualifying. At the end of the race, the personal fastest lap of every single driver is selected and then exactly like in qualifying the gap between each driver is measured and points are given consequentially. Drivers who fail to complete the firt lap get 0pt here obviously. The driver with the solwest fastest lap get's 0pt. (even lapped drivers can score here) Final consideration: Sprint works exactly like the race, including the fast laps and qualifing awarding systems. This point system ensures that, (although unlikely), there is a chance that a driver never scores during a season, and in my opinion, that no driver at any point during a race sits comfortably to take it home safely, it pushes everyone to go on the limit constantly, to get as many points as possible. Here every meter counts and I decided to reward every tenth of a sec one point, to allow that at the end of the championship we get tens of thousands of points for the top drivers, but it's quite exagerated and it can be tuned down to 1 pt per every second gained, so in a gap of 20,4 sec you'l get + 21pt... I’m sorry if it might be a little confusing, I tried to explain it in the best way. thanks for the attention, and feel free to comment or to question me.
If we were to apply this system to the current 2024 championship [all week ends so far (currently in the Azerbaijan Gran Prix)] Drivers: P1- Max Verstappen 15.649pt P2- Lando Norris 15.257pt P3- Oscar Piastri 14.205pt P4- Charles Leclerc 13.477pt P5- Carlos Sainz 11.150pt P6- Lewis Hamilton 11.081pt P7- George Russell 10.022pt P8- Sergio Perez 9.058pt P9- Fernando Alonso 5.877pt P10- Nico Hulkenberg 4.188pt P11- Alexander Albon 3.503pt P12- Pierre Gasly 3.423pt P13- Lance Stroll 3.188pt P14- Esteban Ocon 3.062pt P15- Daniel Ricciardo 2.938pt P16- Yuki Tsunoda 2.756pt P17- Kevin Magnussen 2.371pt P18- Valtteri Bottas 1.948pt P19- Zhou Guanyu 1.694pt P20- Oliver Bearman 1.397pt P21- Logan Sargeant 1.067pt P22- Franco Colapinto 949pt Constructors: P1- McLaren Mercedes 29.462pt P2- Ferrari 25.372pt P3- Red Bull Racing Honda RBPT 24.707pt P4- Mercedes 21.103pt P5- Aston Martin Aramco Mercedes 9.065pt P6- Haas Ferrari 7.211pt P7- Alpine Renault 6.485pt P8- RB Honda RBPT 5.694pt P9- Williams Mercedes 5.519pt P10- Kick Sauber Ferrari 3.642pt
I'd like to see the Moto GP point system. And to be more exciting, add some features like in nascar/indycar : +1 pole +1 fastest lap +1 one lap led +1 driver who led the most lap +1 driver who led every lap of the race. That way a Grand Chelem is a round number of 30 points ! Also, I love your idea of giving points for Monaco Qualifying like they for the Indy 500. But I would prefer something like top 8 : 10, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1
Your dedication to the contact, and the way you deliver it in such interesting and engaging way really seems to be underrated in this community online. You deserve all the success that hopefully should come your way when this channel properly blows up!
How about no points, but time difference. So you're ranked according to total race time and that's added up over the season. So for our 2024 season. Verstappen finished Bahrain in 1:30:44 and Saudi in 1:20:43. That means after two races he was on 2 hours, 51 minutes and 27 seconds. Perez is in second at 2 hours, 52 minutes and 2 seconds etc etc. Fastest driver over the season wins. Will of course have to think of a way to deal with DNFs.
Longtime NASCAR fan here, and I must say, you explained NASCAR's current convoluted points system better than any infographic NASCAR puts out themselves.
it's funny how crazy the numbers have to be played out to make Lewis the champion, and people still say that he deserved to win. I'm pretty sure this comment will be accepted with no hate at all lol
No hate, but your comment doesn't acknowledge why some people think Lewis deserved to win. The objections stem from how the last race concluded and what that meant to the final points tally in our real world scenario.
15:01 so to be champion you dont ened to win a race technically, cause in the final you can finish second but whos ahead is not competing for the title
@@MrVsGarage omg that would be amazing 😂 you could even maybe do a mini league phase to make it fit the format a little better? Or have it as a cumulative knockout over a couple races?
Your best and most chaotic video of his yet, I love it. How about WRC points, or the idea that you add your final race time of all rounds together (and then there's a default for laps behind added, including all laps of the race if you dnf lap 1)?
I did calculate using WRCs current system. Because most points are handed out at the end of Saturday, that basically makes it a quali championship in F1 and Max Verstappen still won by a decent margin. It took way to long to calculate and explain the power stage so it just wasn't good for the video
Great video, I just want to point out that F2 point system is flawed with sprints, since in F2 the grid order is reversed on saturday (at least for the top 10) so we can’t assume that the results of the sprints would’ve been the same with top10 swapped, or just apply F2 sprint race points in F1 sprint race format
yeah true. Obviously all these systems have an effect on how people drive and strategy, and some of them come with weird stuff like reverse grids that is way too hard to simulate
Us NASCAR fans actually really hate the playoff system. It’s only the casuals that really like it. I don’t even know why we still have it around it’s an abomination to society.
I know im late on this, but the way I'd have done the flagpole points for the mario system is to base it off proximity to the outside (based on the last corner before the finish). So if the last corner is a left, whoever finishes furthest to the right gets the most flagpole points.
I got so scared when you started explaining what Balatro was, I didn't recognise the name at first and thought you started doing a gambling sponsorship section
The Mario point system conversion was pure nerd magic. And the Nascar one...let's not talk about it. But speaking seriously, the Points Every Lap madness seems like...absolutely fair?! That way tactics would be really different. With a slow undercutting you basically ruining your own race, but with a succesful one you gain much more. The whole race becoming a living test, not just a celebration of the end result. Very interesting!
Mario Kart points would be funny. Also a point for every position with 1st getting 20 to 20th getting 1 would be fun (similar to the old NASCAR points format in 2011 before the stages)
Not even a motorsports fan, that was a fun watch! Great work! In case you see this, for future iterations, I suggest a Chess scoring system. Use the FIDE ELO formula and treat every race as a series of head to head competitions. Beat a driver, gain points, lose to a driver, lose points. The number of points won or lost depends on the driver's pre-race score (good driver beats bad driver, few points are exchanged. bad driver beats good driver, many points are exchanged) and a relatively simple formula. Dealer's choice whether both drivers DNFing is a draw or a win for whoever lasted longer.
I think drivers and constructors should have different point systems. Drivers : - All positions yield points with a healthy bonus for finishing highest - Number of drivers * 5 = total points, then distribute points amongst drivers according to a percentage (this ensures future-proofing if the field ever grows or shrinks) - Pole yields a point, as do fastest lap and at least 5 laps led - Points deducted for DRIVERS-penalties. (Magnussen would be at minus 4 million by now, using this system) Constructors : - Drivers points divided by 2 (2 drivers per team) - Extra point for fastest pitstop - Point(s) deducted for TEAM-penalties (like unsafe release) - Point(s) deducted for using more than alloted parts What think ye?
Adding points to the super Mario points based on if you make it out of a crash that someone else doesn't. If one person doesn't make it: 1 enemy stomped, two people: 2 enemies stomped etc.
I think the real problem with the modern F1 points system is the gap between P1 and everyone else (it only serves to benefit dominance rather than consistency). A better points system would be something like: P1: 21 P2: 18 P3: 15 P4 - P10 stay the same Sprint points stay the same FL gives you 2 points if your team is not leading the constructors championship and 1 point if it is.
20:40 stomping enemies could be destroying other cars like hitting the walls and forgetting brakes exist, so that way Lance Stroll would be the champion
as a Nascar fan, I think peak Nascar points format was the chase. its like the playoffs, but no win and your in, and there are no rounds, so its just a ten race chase for the championship. it kept it interesting, without being stupid.
Talking as though people who thought Hamilton should have been champion were blaming the point system rather than the race director decisions during the Abu Dhabi GP 😂😂😂
2021 season would be won by max with 10-16 points if the FIA fuckery didn't happen in Bahrein and Jeddah. points system wasn't the issue that year in my opinion
Or if his tyre didn't blow out, or if he wasn't crashed out in Silverstone and Hungary. There is no world where Lewis wins that year. Max was just better and both proved who is better the last few years. Max stomps everything and Lewis has ups and downs
I'd be interested in the old Winston Cup NASCAR Point style format reenvisioned by SlapSh0es, so the Slap Format (excluding Stages). I halfed the points since NASCAR runs with double the field. Positions: 1st 100pt, 2nd 90pt, 3rd 85pt, ..., 19th 5pt, 20th 1pt Bonus: Leading a Lap 5pt, Leading most Laps 5pt, Pole Position 5pt, Fastest Lap 5pt, Fastest Pitstop 5pt. I personally quite like this proposal
I think you're well aware that the controversy between whether Max or Lewis win the 2021 World Championship lies in how the race rules were carried out in Abu Dhabi, not in gripes with the points system. Obvious straw-manning from you aside, this was a very enjoyable video, I love the amount of effort put into it
It is worth noting that american series awarding points to every finishing position usually considered the DNFs as classified position still, so if you're the first one to DNF you're just considered to have finished last
Would be great to see the results of a Tour de France (cycling) general classification system where it's a tally of your overall time for each 'stage/race'. Time bonuses for podiums and maybe a sprint championship 'jersey' too. Tricky if you dnf but you could apply a cut off time (+10% of race leaders time) so there is a penalty for dnf.
Whenever I look for truly unique F1 content, I come to Mr V's Garage. Your creativity and Excel work never fail to amaze me! If I have to nitpick, you could use the team colors for the series. It'd be easier to understand who's who.
I have made up a points system inspired by bowling: 200 regular pts for 1st, then 180 for 2nd, 160, 140, 120, 100, 80, 60, 40, 30, 20, 10 for 12th. 10 regular points for pole, and 10 for fastest lap. 1st place gets bonus points equal to his regular points in the last race, 2nd gets 70% of his regular points, 50% for 3rd, 30%, 20%, 10% for 6th.
Just did the 2021 season in Excel, Verstappen beats Hamilton 6078-5861, the only difference at the end of the season is that Norris beats Sainz 2319-2288 for 5th place. Ricciardo finishes 1 point ahead of Gasly, 1593-1592.
The first thing that came to mind: take the regular season points, convert them to chips, throw the chips in a bag, pull out 1 chip for each point scoring position, the order in which the chips are pulled out is the new race result (even if you pull the same chip multiple times).
12:36 ive been a nascar fan my entire life and i had no idea that you get playoff points for finishing p2-p10 in the regular season 😂 The commentstors always make a big deal about the winner getting 15 playoff points but they never mention p2-p10 get points too, i feel like thats a really important distinction they should point out Needless to say its def a complex system. Most fans hate the playoffs. Most fans hate stage cautions as well (theres a full course yellow at the end of every stage for those unaware) but interestingly most fans like stage points. I do too - stage points award consistency throughout a race, so if you lead 499 miles and then blow an engine on the final lap, at least you walk away with some points
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I worked out the 2021 results if the finishing order was reversed for each race (last place finisher gets 25, second last gets 18, etc etc, DNFs get nothing) and I found that Mazepin DNFed so often that Schumacher won the title by 12 points
Interesting. Ironically, only one of Mazepin's 6 DNFs were actually his fault, and it was Turn 3 of Race 1.
Later on he had 2 mechanical retirements in the Netherlands and Monza, got crashed into by Kimi after Alfa released their car too early from his pit box, got brake-checked by Russell who was trying to avoid all the carnage in Saudi and got COVID in Abu Dhabi.
Also, how did you count people that didn't finish the race, but were classified, like Gasly in Bahrain for example?
@@bartoszwitkowicz6704 if a driver was classified but DNFed I ignored them
That is incredible
I laughed so hard at this, I need to go to the hospital now. 😂😂
Probably still faster than Mazepin...
@bartoszwitkowicz6704 honestly, that's the craziest stat about him. He might have been slow, but he wasn't crash prone...apparently. I find that hard to believe.
Carlos Sainz winning an F1 title by just not being last is a very Carlos Sainz way to win a championship
The consistency champion
Smooth operator
The Keke Rosberg simulator
Like his dad did in wrc
😂😂
A Fibonacci points system!
From last:
1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89...
10946 points for winning a race is _mental._ I love it.
@@hiimemily 6,765 if using the correct Fibonacci sequence or even 4,181 if starting from 0
@@hiimemily only if everyone finishes. DNF should lower the points for a win. Could get weird in the last few races to take a tactical dnf to reduce the points of whoever is in front
@GewoonGw Toto on the radio: "Valtteri we need you to take out 6 cars to stay in this championship"
What in the flying fuck is that NASCAR points system
'MURICA
Dw about it (please do all of us nascar fans want a full season championship even tho some championships may be boring it'd still be better)
Broken, trust me, even us NASCAR fans dont quite fully understand it or like it.
Worse than the Mario system
The mario system is more comprehensible
Funny how you can make up some ridiculous point system based on Balatro and SMB, and it is still easier to understand than Nascars classification/point system … thing
If you watch and follow NASCAR enough, it *starts* to make sense, although I prefer the Winston points system. It's just annoying to explain the current system. to everyone.
It's not that it's complicated, it's more like "why..?", like how exactly this system is the best way to find out who was the best driver in the season?
@@konepe1653 To put it simply, it doesn't. NASCAR noticed that TV ratings in the back-half of the season were dipping and saw the success of the "playoffs" that other American sports leagues like the NFL and MLB have enjoyed. It's designed solely for the last race to have 4 drivers compete for the championship in a "final round" type showdown. The guy arguably most deserving of the championship could make it all the way there (or possibly not even make it at all) and lose due to even the smallest stroke of bad luck. It's not fair, but it creates a good story, and that's what they're looking for.
There's a reason that NASCAR is seen as the WWE of motorsports.
@@JohnSmith-mk5jt I guess that makes sense. The one good thing about it is that seasons like 2023 still have a chance to be somewhat interesting in the back half.
WHAT IN THE HELL IS THAT NASCAR POINTS SYSTEM?!?!?!?? The IMSA one is unfair for people who have just been crashed into. i.e. anyone who is unfortunate enough to have a car bad enough to have been racing Stroll....
I do understand the NASCAR one, it makes sure the champion is always decided in the final race so there's always a reason to watch them all. Is it fair? no. But is it fun? yeah I quite like it
@@MrVsGarage it is relatively fun in theory but I just tune out mentally once the playoffs come. They just suck a lot of enjoyment out of the sport for me
"Wrestling is entertainment pretending to be a sport, NASCAR is a sport pretending to be entertainment"
The IMSA points system gives points to all starters though based on how many laps completed, not just classified finishers, so actually the analysis is wrong here. Max's DNFs would still have still scored loads of points.
@@MrVsGarage By understanding the NASCAR system, you are doing far better than NASCAR fans anymore
Don't even get us started on "playoffs waivers" or the last race of the 'regular season' being a complete lottery ticket
@@MrVsGarage the problem is you get a last race with 30+ cars where all but 4 are completely irrelevant.
This video is so Excel-rich that it's making me want to bust out my own Excel and make an EEL ranking for every season starting in 1950
DO IT
PLEASE YESSS
Ok please do it I want to know what happens
YES
MAKE IT A VIDEO
Imagine thinking of some of the most bonkers points systems based on random video game logic and still not being able to create a more ridiculous points system than NASCAR...
Time for the scrabble point system, points are given based on the name of the race (full name so "Formula 1 Qatar Airways Gran Premio del Made in Italy e dell'Emilia-Romagna 2023" is used) then remove the last word or letter for every position down the grid
I actually love this. Alternatively, you could get your total race time spelled out in words "one hour twenty three minutes nineteen seconds point eight eight one" which of course is 56 points
@@MrVsGarage How do we handle things like Triple Letter or Double Word squares?
@@EdisonTheFox date of the race gives the letters that get counted extra! Amount of times the number appears gives the multiplikator. So since all the races were held in 2021(duh), the 2nd letter is always at least a triple score (possibly more if a race is held on the 2nd of a month.)
Triple word = grand slam.
Double word = pole and race victory.
Double letter = most races led.
Triple letter = fastest lap.
Applying the nascar points system for F1 is the most disgusting thing I’ve ever seen
you're welcome
As a NASCAR fan, applying the NASCAR points system to NASCAR is the most disgusting thing I have ever seen.
@@erikeidsmoe6165 very true
@@erikeidsmoe6165 Thank you for the good laugh mate. I needed that 😂😂
In your explanation of Nascar stage points, you forgot about the Coca-Cola 600, which has four stages. Also, some nascar races (Portland Xfinity 2024, for example) are divided evenly.
Man, I love America.
It makes sense if each race is not the same length. F1 races are all the same distance except 1 which is shorter (Monaco) so I couldn't really choose which one to get 4 stages..
@@MrVsGarage Thank God Monaco is shorter... we do not need another 30min of boredom... (I actually love the track itself, plz smaller cars)
Not to mention the Daytona Duels. Good luck mapping that one to F1
Monaco should be raced with karts
@@Appletank8 Monaco should be raced in Formula E cars. It works well for Formula E.
As a nascar fan, I can tell you that the majority of nascar fans absolutely hate the playoff system and wish we could go back to the Winston cup one (which was basically indycar's but with a few different values)
The day nascar abolishes the playoffs will be the greatest day of my life
This is the same sanctioning body who took over a week to decide if they should punish their best driver for the weather. Don’t hold your breath.
@duncachinoahimiha3889 It actually took that long because Larson and HMS said they'd prioritize Charlotte if weather came up, and then they didn't. HMS also didn't even apply for the waiver until Wednesday or Thursday
who the fuck designed this points system oml
I believe it was NASCAR’s chairman who, the weekend after the sport’s most popular driver won his first race, stole headlines after he got arrested for driving under the influence of several substances.
@@mattsisoler6125 this was truly a turning point for nascar, cause after he was arrested and obv lost his position as CEO, nascar's decline stopped and things started to get better for the first time in many years
He truly ruined nascar and I'm so glad he's out of the picture
(He was the one to invent this bullshit system)
In the mario point system you should get 100 point for takeing out a other driver. If you take out a second driver you get 200 for 300 total. Same order the stomping points. So it would go 100, 200, 400, 500, 800, 1,000, 2,000, 4,000, 5,000, 8,000, 1up. Takeing out 10 drivers would give you 22000 points.
I did start on something like that and also making a Burnout inspired one that is all about crashes, but not every crash is a DNF straight away so where do you draw the line. And also if the whole season is just crash points then Bottas wins the title in Hungary
@@MrVsGarage Crash-based points can also get very toxic very quickly narratively speaking lol.
#teamLH called max the Mickey mouse champion, now they can call Lewis the Super mario champion 😂
Could also give 100 points per pass
Pastor Maldonado would be the GOAT in this points system for sure.
Diehard, longtime NASCAR fan here. When they announced that playoff points system, the first thing I thought was "how the hell am I supposed to explain that to a human."
I would like to propose the 'Scrabble System'.
Take the name of the grand prix, and the number of points each letter in the name scores in Scrabble is how many points you get for finishing in that position.
Win the Azerbaijan grand prix? Nice! 1 point for you (A). Finish second, though, and you get 10 (Z).
Just saw that someone else suggested a *different* Scrabble system, but I'm sticking with this one
Love it, can’t wait for disappointed second place finishers in Zandvoort
Love it, might have to steal it if that's alright?
@@MrVsGarage steal away!
Using which scrabble language point count? Using which language to spell grand prix names?
"F1's favourite raisin impersonator, Bernie Ecclestone" 😂😂😂😂
Rally stage system?
Scoring being the total time over the season if you finish (laps can be simulated based on relative positions to the next car at the point of the chequered flag (or the lap before if they finish after you), plus 3 minutes per lap not completed).
Champion is lowest time.
Oh you mean like the season is 1 massive rally? Madness, I love it
@@MrVsGarage Yes yes, that sounds awesome.
I do indeed!
I think you make it simple and just say that a DNF is a flat 2 hours. Although that does make a DNF in Singapore is no big deal but a DNF at Monza is a disaster.
@@DanielHarveyDyer yeah I was trying to balance things a bit more fairly whilst making Monaco particularly punishing to reward the skill of keeping it out of the barriers
Your knowledge about the point systems across all eras is at this point surely on par to that of a grand master at their field !
This was a veryy fun video, I genuinely enjoyed it a lot, the opening was funny and the pace was just right through out the video to make sure the info isn't overwhelming, nor boringly slow ! nailed this one mate, keep it up !
Thank you. I spend a while in the edit for this one exactly that, making sure the pace was nice. There's whole chunks I had to cut out but I'm happy I did
@@MrVsGarage Your efforts are a cut above the rest mate !
Ive been running something very similar to your eel champioship pretty much since 2007. Only we start several races in to the season so the final race is actually the final race of the season.
Me and a few friends and family actually place bets on who will be eliminated each race.
We work it out that the chassis is essentially eliminated so if someone stands in for you at a race your relying on them to do well. It also allows us to account for mid season team changes.
When sprints were introduced we added a new rule that winning the sprint granted you immunity from being eliminated in the next race.
Honestly that sounds like a really great version of a fantasy league type of thing. Silly and random enough to be good fun!!
@@MrVsGarage thanks, and respect for taking the time to read and respond to everyone's comments. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Charles LeClerc eliminated today 😯😯😯
You deserve a like just for explaining the NASCAR points system, even though I didn't understand any of it.
As a spreadsheet enthusiast and die hard F1 fan, your content is nothing short of exceptional!
thank you, I'm glad I could make tedious manual data entry interesting 😂
NASCAR really needs to go back to a full season points system
True
Yep.
Yeah the NASCAR point system is weird, however there is nobody that hates it more than NASCAR fans
How about an ELO-based points system where everyone starts with 1000 points, and the top 10 gain points and the bottom 10 lose points? The more points you have, the less you stand to gain but the more you stand to lose, with DNFs netting you the maximum possible amount of points lost. Fastest lap gains… I don’t know… 5 elo?
i think given mr v's history with f1 drivers and scoring them using the elo system i don't think he'll be particularly happy to see this lol
i think you'd have to balance out the weight of DNFs at the end of the season because one could lose you many positions
@@valentinafuffa535true, because in chess resigning (basically DNFing) loses you the same amount of points as being checkmated
Eventually the UA-cam Algorithm leads to Mr V's Garage. One of the few professional vids on F1. Oscars for best Microphone, best Watch, best Haircut, and best Shirt.
You can tell this man is a professional because he's using Super Mario Bros. instead of Mario Kart
Also, 1239 laps times 20 drivers means 24780 data entries, minus a couple for lapped drivers finishing one lap earlier.
I sincerely hope you found a way to automate this. Otherwise, absolute madlad.
points every lap was actually the quickest out of all of them. I already had a massive databse of everyone's position every lap, so I just had to vlookup the points table and countif by driver name, took like 30 seconds 😂
I have an idea for a new, albeit horrific, points system (in this system, sprints are non-championship races, and there would be no fastest lap points in the post season):
In 2021, the points are normal for the first 17 races. Then, the first 4 drivers at that time, here Verstappen, Hamilton, Bottas and Perez, are temporarily removed from the post-season, whereas the other 16 drivers are separated into a tournament system, where the 5th and 6th placed drivers would duel and whoever finished ahead in Mexico would progress, the 7th and 8th and so on, before in Brazil whoever'd won the 5th and 6th duel would then duel the winner of the 7th and 8th duel, and so on down the grid. Then for the next race, that system would continue, but the top 4 drivers would be added back in, with 1st and 2nd dueling and 3rd and 4th dueling in Qatar before the winner dueled in Saudi Arabia, before the winner of the non-top 4 would duel the winner of the top 4 duels for the championship. The other top 4 drivers would be guaranteed between 3rd and 5th, while the other non-top 4 drivers would finish between 16th and last. Kubica would not be included. Here are the standings:
#20: Mick Schumacher
#19: Antonio Giovinazzi
#18: Nicholas Latifi
#17: Yuki Tsunoda
#16: Esteban Ocon
#15: Fernando Alonso
#14: Daniel Ricciardo
#13: Lando Norris
#12: Nikita Mazespin - I swear I am not joking. This system is insanely unfair, which is why Ocon, Alonso, Riccardo, Norris and Mazespin are all so low.
#11: Lance Stroll
#10: Sebastian Vettel
#9: Carlos Sainz
#8: George Russell
#7: Pierre Gasly
#6: Kimi Räikkönen
#5: Valtteri Bottas
#4: Max Verstappen
#3: Sergio Perez
#2: Charles Leclerc
#1: Lewis Hamilton
You're as crazy as I am 😂
@@MrVsGarage Aww thanks😄
poor excel, in every mr v video gets abused badly for "science" :(
btw these kind of videos are probably the most difficult to make for the data behind but are also the most interesting and fun to watch
thank you, and yes they do take a little while with between the planning and then interpereting data into a script and then editing too, I think it's worth it though!!
and don't feel bad for excel, it loves being abused like this, it's kinky like that
Not as abused as by Williams though
IndyCar has the best points system. I prefer points for every position because it encourages more fighting throughout the field and it gives more incentive to not retire from the race. A race at the Indy Road Course is a good example when one of the drivers had his gearbox damaged from an incident on the first lap and after fixing it they went back out despite being in last place and 12 laps down they ended up gaining 3 positions and valuable points because others dropped out. If it was F1 they probably would have just given up after the lap 1 incident.
It's dangerous for him and the rest of the cars to race throwing carbon-fiber parts all around. That would be a Black-Orange flag.
@@LeorixSP thats why they repair/replace what they can and bear bond the rest
@@nickb2049 AFAIK Indycarsa are a lot tougher generally than F1 cars. It would be hard to render safe in many cases because one part relies on another that relies on another and so on.
What's amazing is that the Balatro system is still less complex than the NASCAR system
Tetris points system:
You get points for how many cars you cause to DNF (like clearing lines), up to 4 in a single incident (yourself included because why not). The amount of points you get increases with each lap.
For practicality, we could just say that if the stewards determined a driver to be at fault for an incident, they would get all the points for that incident. If multiple drivers were determined to be at fault, they would all receive the points. If no drivers are determined to be at fault, such as with a first lap incident, then all involved get the points. If someone retired due to a mechanical failure, they get no points but their team does.
Mazepin supremacy
Ok but do you get bonus points when you spin like a T-spin single/double/triple depending on the number of spins you do in a race?
NASCAR fan here. We haven’t had a real champion in ten years. We manually keep track of who “should” be the champion ever year. Kevin Harvick won a quarter of the races in 2020 and finished fifth. Help
i’m mildly interested in nascar, who are the real star drivers? with the points system and that playoff thing that exists, it’s hard to tell who’s the best without having actually watched a lot of races
Larson? He woulda won the championship anyway even with a normal system
@@TedMan55currently I would say Larson Byron Hamlin and bell (and an honorable mention for keslowski and buscher)
@@TexasNightmare24 Elliot is another
Truex in 2017, Busch in 2019, and Larson in 2021 were all “real” champions, but I agree with what you said. We need to get rid of the playoffs.
They call Max the "Mickey Mouse Champion". At least he's not the "Super Mario Champion" in some alternate universe
The thing with the points systems in America, and this applies to IMSA, IndyCar and NASCAR, is that you get points for merely STARTING the race; if you DNF you still get the points in the position you'd be classified in, e.g. Hamilton and Verstappen would still have got points for finishing 17th and 18th respectively at Monza despite retiring from that race.
and? "if you DNF you still get the points in the position you'd be classified in" yes, you get points where you are classified at the end of the race, why is that a problem?
@@nickb2049because you don’t need to be classified in the same way you need to be classified in F1, it actually reduces the amount of points a driver has earned that what they would have earned in reality, if you crash out on the opening lap, you receive points equal to last place on the grid, or whichever finishing position you would have if multiple cars crash out
Plus DNSes in IndyCar are worth 1/2 points
@@insertcolorherehawk3761 And it's little details like that that make a difference in the championship standings, though it doesn't look like it made a difference as to who won the title in these universes.
The Supercars Championship has a nice middle ground I think. It awards points for every position (which I've never been a big fan of) but there are two big caveats:
1) You have to have completed at least 75% of the race distance in order to be classified, so there is a bit of wiggle-room if you have a major issue
2) You have to actually physically cross the finish line. For example, say you're just three laps from the end of the race and you have a mechanical failure that means you have to retire. That's tough luck, it goes down as a DNF and no points.
An example to visualise the latter point: In the 1999 Bathurst 1000 the last two classified finishers (the cars of Nathan Pretty and Andrew Fawcett (21st) and Peter Field and Shane Howison (22nd) had completed 134 out of 161 laps. Five cars that offically DNF'd behind them had completed more laps than them; for instance, Tony Longhurst and Adam Macrow's car retired on their 150th lap!
That isn’t a problem when the whole field is competitive so scoring the most points is what everyone would want.
Yeah, i was a bit confused when he didnt give them points for IMSA NASCAR and Indycar despite DNFing. I had no idea that was a rule in non American series
Stages in NASCAR can be interpreted as 2 sprint races back to back directly followed by a feature race
The audacity to choose the 2021 season 💪🏼, risking comments, trolls, countless discussions, or worse, regardless of what the conclusion may be. This must be your best episode, by far, and I’m just at 1:43 😂 Anyway, well done I’m hooked. 😃
Thank you. And tbh, I knew what I was doing choosing it 😉
@@MrVsGarage but... Max wins using almost any system so maybe it might shut those people still crying out loud about the outcome of the season up for a bit.... So I approve..
Gotta love how the whole Nascar season is just a giant qualifying for a race in which starting in front means next to nothing anyways... I'm actually disappointed that you didn't try WEC or Mario Kart or MotoGP or Gran Turismo or Australian V8s or F-Zero or Brazilian Stock Cars or Wipeout or Argentinian Super TC2000 or Need for Speed or TCR or Burnout or World Rally Championship or... There's so many systems to choose from. I suspect you ran some of those and the results were not as interesting, but you could very well have another round of this coming.
I wonder what it would look like with the current WRC system. Give the Power Stage points in qualifying, then give the equivalent of the Saturday points at 75% distance and the Sunday points just for the times for the last 25% or something.
Burnout and WRC were originally in the video. Burnout was cut because I had to ask the question "what is a crash" which is way too philosophical, and WRC just wasn't interesting
@@MrVsGarage Burnout would be a great video on its own, though. A takedown would have to award massive points (or massive time advantage, say, 10 to 30 seconds per car taken out for drivers who crash into others and still finish their races, since in game it awards speed boosts), so all of a sudden Mansell would be a multichampion, Schumacher and Senna would have even more titles... Could Bottas be a contender in 2021?! And who caused that Big One before Eau Rouge at Spa again? I can only imagine the kind of crazyness that could come of it.
However, that would require a tally of all crashes ever recorded, who was involved, and perhaps the time tables for every grand prix. As a special it certainly has potential, but it may or may not be a little too much. :)
Even if by some werid coincidence nothing changes in the standings, the story of each season narrated Burnout style could certainly make for some great entertainment.
should've checked something like 2007 or 2010 season with 3-ways battle
Definitely. All this video did is bring up memories of why AD21 was the biggest scam in this sport's history.
The stank when he explained the NASCAR system is exactly how I feel about it, and I follow it more closely than any other motorsport.
Idea: Uno/other similar games system, the winner gets points from the other drivers based on how far behind they are, no one else scores
I do quite like that, like the winner get 1 point for each second each other driver is behind?
Or that with everyone getting as many points as seconds behind are the others. Everybody down to the 19th gets points. You'd need to choose a one-off sum for getting ahead people that didn't finish. You could also do a one-off once a driver has been lapped, instead of keeping on counting the seconds.
@@MrVsGarage I think, for each uncompleted lap of any other driver would make sense. So the drivers in the leading lap give nothing.
Everyone knows Max deserved to win the 2021 championship, but Lewis deserved to win Abu Dhabi. Max had a better overall season, but because of 2 accidents he was tied with Lewis at the end.
Maybe it would have been more fair to see who would win the championship if Lewis still won Abu Dhabi.
This simply isn’t true at all. Max drove illegally for most of the season. It’s just the FIA / stewards lost control. There’s a reason so many new rules were introduced in 2022… because of Max
There is always that 1 delusional guy that cannot accept it. Even though there is enough evidence for it all. And make up some random stuff to back up his statement. I´m here for it what else they have to say.
the current points system in f1 is probably the best ever id say,fairness with consistency somewhat but also awarding the winner by 7 extra points
honestly this video was very entertaining to watch, haven't seen a video as fun as this in a while
I used the F1 points system used from 2003-2009 on the 2021 F1 championship (including sprint points and fastest lap points), and heres how it turned out:
1. Max Verstappen (171 points)
2. Sir Lewis Hamilton (166 points)
3. Valtteri Bottas (96 points)
4. Sergio Perez (76 points)
5. Charles Leclerc (62.5 points)
6. Carlos Sainz (62 points)
7. Lando Norris (61 points)
8. Daniel Ricciardo (44.5 points)
9. Pierre Gasly (41.5 points)
10. Fernando Alonso (26 points)
11. Esteban Ocon (23 points)
12. Sebastian Vettel (16 points)
13. Yuki Tsunoda (10 points)
14. Lance Stroll (9 points)
15. George Russell (5 points)
16. Kimi Raikkonen (2 points)
17. Nicholas Latifi (2 points)
18. Antonio Giovinazzi (0 points)
19. Mick Schumacher (0 points)
20. Robert Kubica (0 points)
21. Nikita Mazepin (0 points)
Main Differences: Leclerc finishes 5th in the standings rather than 7th, which means Sainz & Norris finish 6th & 7th respectively instead, and Tsunoda outscores Stroll unlike with the current F1 drivers standings.
I think what most people forget about 2021 is that up until Qatar we thought the championship was basically over
It were only for Mercedes' miracle triple win streak for the title battle to go to Abu Dhabi in the first place but in general it was no doubt that Verstappen had been more consistently at the front
I liked this quote from after Abu Dhabi 2021 : "Hamilton deserved Abu Dhabi, Verstappen deserved the championship"
We all know that the 2021 controversy is more to do with FIA regulations and other such boring matters but this video is a lot funnier than that video would be!
now I'm really wanting one for seasons like 2010, 2012, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 1999, 1998. Many seasons to test these points out I think it would be great to see if you ever have the time. Great video btw!
the nascar point system used to be so much simpler. go back before "the chase" was introduced, now called the playoffs. the 1975-2003 points system is the last simple system to be used.
let’s do the f1 point system but it gives french teammates extra points when they crash
that seems oddly specific...
Is it just me who thinks that Mr V might be the heir to chainbear's crown?
I keep trying to go round his house to take it but Stuart keeps chasing me away with a big hammer
Do we know why he stopped uploading?
@@andresmartinezramos7513 He started tweeting again this year, I think it might have been something to do with mental health/burnout though, would be really nice to see his videos return
@@andresmartinezramos7513 only he knows for sure but speculation is he was burned out. He's still very active on twitter.
Holy shit the fact Nikita mazepin didn’t finish A SINGLE LAP in the top 10 is crazy that’s an amazing stat
Your talking numbers skills are second to none. I like all your videos, but the numbery ones are my favorite.
The most shocking part of the video is where you make me realize that 1988 is about halfway through. It seems wrong, since one is obviously about 50 years ago and the other one about 15, but then I realized that I'm just old and stopped counting when I was a teenager : /
yeah feels bad man (well tbh I wasn't born in 1988 so it doesn't bother me at all 😇)
Point system proposal:
For each weekend the drivers are going to get rewarded in 3 different occasions. Firstly, at the end of qualifying and then at the end of the race with the final positions and with the personal fastest laps.
Starting with the reward of the position a driver gets at the end of the race:
Each driver at the end of the race gets points based on the number of points the driver right behind got + an added amount for the time gap there is between them. Every thenth of a sec is equivalent to one point, and the time gets always rounded up to the next bigest thenth, to make sure that
in case of a close finish (let's say 0,041sec), the driver in front gets 1 pt more. Here lapped cars get 0pt here and the firts to get awarded points beeing the last non lapped driver gets instead a number of points equivalent to the amount given to the drive that gets the fastest lap. In case the driver with the fastest lap is also the last non lapped car, it gets awarded the points for fastest lap and then once more, wiche means that if he gets awarded 25pt for fastest lap, at the end of the race he finishes with a combined 50pt.
Note:
(1,0 sec = 10pt; 1,5 sec = 15pt; 1,6 sec = 16pt; 0,2 sec = 2p…)
For example:
If the last point worthy position is 13th, (because 14th place got lapped from the leader), the gap between them is exactly 2,000sec and the driver with the fastest lap got 19pt the 13th would get 33pt, while 14th -13pt. On the other hand, if we assume as well that the gap between 12th and 13th is 5,622 sec then 12th whould get 33pt+57=90pt
Note that:
5,622 sec gets rounded up to 5,7 sec;
Then for qualifying position reward, the scoring system would work in the following way:
At the end of Q1 all drivers get selected and then, similarly to what’s done in the race scoring system, by calculating the time gap between the cars infornt we attribute points exept that the last car gets 0pt. In Q2 the same ting appens again, but istead only from the 13th place (inclusiding 13th) drivers get rewarded more points. Finaly in Q3 only the top 7 get selected and 6th beeing the first to get points. If a driver gets penalised in qualifing, it's points at the end of the week end get converted to 0, altdough the driver infront still beneficts the points the penalised driver supposedly should have got.
Note:
Here as you can imagine the points given are much less, as of course, the gaps in qualifying tend to be much smaller than in a race, and since this system is designed to always give the driver in front at least 1pt more than you, in the closest gaps scenarios in Q3, the 1st would still get at least 8pt from it.
If in any of the 3 sessions of qualifing, drivers fail to put down laps, let's say that in Q1 tree drivers have broken cars, then the last of the ones that got a valid lap gets 0pt and from him onwards points get awarded.
Finaly for fastest laps attempts during a race, it works basically like qualifying. At the end of the race, the personal fastest lap of every single driver is selected and then exactly like in qualifying the gap between each driver is measured and points are given consequentially. Drivers who fail to complete the firt lap get 0pt here obviously. The driver with the solwest fastest lap get's 0pt. (even lapped drivers can score here)
Final consideration:
Sprint works exactly like the race, including the fast laps and qualifing awarding systems.
This point system ensures that, (although unlikely), there is a chance that a driver never scores during a season, and in my opinion, that no driver at any point during a race sits comfortably to take it home safely, it pushes everyone to go on the limit constantly, to get as many points as possible. Here every meter counts and I decided to reward every tenth of a sec one point, to allow that at the end of the championship we get tens of thousands of points for the top drivers, but it's quite exagerated and it can be tuned down to 1 pt per every second gained, so in a gap of 20,4 sec you'l get + 21pt... I’m sorry if it might be a little confusing, I tried to explain it in the best way. thanks for the attention, and feel free to comment or to question me.
If we were to apply this system to the current 2024 championship [all week ends so far (currently in the Azerbaijan Gran Prix)]
Drivers:
P1- Max Verstappen 15.649pt
P2- Lando Norris 15.257pt
P3- Oscar Piastri 14.205pt
P4- Charles Leclerc 13.477pt
P5- Carlos Sainz 11.150pt
P6- Lewis Hamilton 11.081pt
P7- George Russell 10.022pt
P8- Sergio Perez 9.058pt
P9- Fernando Alonso 5.877pt
P10- Nico Hulkenberg 4.188pt
P11- Alexander Albon 3.503pt
P12- Pierre Gasly 3.423pt
P13- Lance Stroll 3.188pt
P14- Esteban Ocon 3.062pt
P15- Daniel Ricciardo 2.938pt
P16- Yuki Tsunoda 2.756pt
P17- Kevin Magnussen 2.371pt
P18- Valtteri Bottas 1.948pt
P19- Zhou Guanyu 1.694pt
P20- Oliver Bearman 1.397pt
P21- Logan Sargeant 1.067pt
P22- Franco Colapinto 949pt
Constructors:
P1- McLaren Mercedes 29.462pt
P2- Ferrari 25.372pt
P3- Red Bull Racing Honda RBPT 24.707pt
P4- Mercedes 21.103pt
P5- Aston Martin Aramco Mercedes 9.065pt
P6- Haas Ferrari 7.211pt
P7- Alpine Renault 6.485pt
P8- RB Honda RBPT 5.694pt
P9- Williams Mercedes 5.519pt
P10- Kick Sauber Ferrari 3.642pt
I'd like to see the Moto GP point system.
And to be more exciting, add some features like in nascar/indycar :
+1 pole
+1 fastest lap
+1 one lap led
+1 driver who led the most lap
+1 driver who led every lap of the race.
That way a Grand Chelem is a round number of 30 points !
Also, I love your idea of giving points for Monaco Qualifying like they for the Indy 500.
But I would prefer something like top 8 : 10, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1
Really want to see the EEL system in every F1 season, it sounds so good that I think only Schumi will be the one to keep his championships
What a video, seen some of your previous stuff but forgotten to subscribe.
Now I am a subscriber. 10/10 content
Thank you for doing such great work and being that good with Excel.
thank you. When I go on dates I tell them about my Excel skills and they just can't contain themselves
@@MrVsGarage I wouldn't be able to contain myself either if someone told me this.
Your dedication to the contact, and the way you deliver it in such interesting and engaging way really seems to be underrated in this community online. You deserve all the success that hopefully should come your way when this channel properly blows up!
thank you! I'm just trying to make the best stuff I can
How about no points, but time difference. So you're ranked according to total race time and that's added up over the season. So for our 2024 season. Verstappen finished Bahrain in 1:30:44 and Saudi in 1:20:43. That means after two races he was on 2 hours, 51 minutes and 27 seconds. Perez is in second at 2 hours, 52 minutes and 2 seconds etc etc. Fastest driver over the season wins. Will of course have to think of a way to deal with DNFs.
you could just have DNFed cars take the last finisher's time, and add on a certain amount of time
how does this deal with drivers a lap down? since a driver in 15th might finish between first and second
Longtime NASCAR fan here, and I must say, you explained NASCAR's current convoluted points system better than any infographic NASCAR puts out themselves.
it's funny how crazy the numbers have to be played out to make Lewis the champion, and people still say that he deserved to win. I'm pretty sure this comment will be accepted with no hate at all lol
Max only won a bunch of these because he had 1 extra win over Lewis because of masi…
No hate, but your comment doesn't acknowledge why some people think Lewis deserved to win. The objections stem from how the last race concluded and what that meant to the final points tally in our real world scenario.
@@drethmer1917but even if you remove it, most show max was the better and more deserving driver of the title
@@AyoSosanya if Abu Dhabi was won by Lewis the score would be 7/13 with most of the consistency multiplier ones going to max
Both deserved to win, it's just a shame it ended the way it did
15:01 so to be champion you dont ened to win a race technically, cause in the final you can finish second but whos ahead is not competing for the title
I want a part 2.
Maybe you can create a World Cup style bracket with drivers driving H2H each race?
This is a great idea. Do it champions league style with a big draw to see who is facing who before each round
@@MrVsGarage omg that would be amazing 😂 you could even maybe do a mini league phase to make it fit the format a little better? Or have it as a cumulative knockout over a couple races?
Fun fact: NASCAR will do it this year as a mid season tournament
@@felipehartmann5083 ofc they will. They need to stop cooking 😂
I love that scenario when you appeared in Latifi's car
What about if we used the modern points system but with a multiplier of the race number, so round 18 is worth 18x points, etc
Bernie Ecclestone would be proud
Your best and most chaotic video of his yet, I love it. How about WRC points, or the idea that you add your final race time of all rounds together (and then there's a default for laps behind added, including all laps of the race if you dnf lap 1)?
I did calculate using WRCs current system. Because most points are handed out at the end of Saturday, that basically makes it a quali championship in F1 and Max Verstappen still won by a decent margin. It took way to long to calculate and explain the power stage so it just wasn't good for the video
The British will carry the scar of 2021 for the rest of their lives. Albus Dumbledore: "Yes. they'll have that scar forever, like Harry Potter."
WDC was Max's, Abu Dhabi Hamilton's. There was no wound to create a scar
Sounds a bit xenophobic to me.
Great video, I just want to point out that F2 point system is flawed with sprints, since in F2 the grid order is reversed on saturday (at least for the top 10) so we can’t assume that the results of the sprints would’ve been the same with top10 swapped, or just apply F2 sprint race points in F1 sprint race format
yeah true. Obviously all these systems have an effect on how people drive and strategy, and some of them come with weird stuff like reverse grids that is way too hard to simulate
Us NASCAR fans actually really hate the playoff system. It’s only the casuals that really like it. I don’t even know why we still have it around it’s an abomination to society.
I know im late on this, but the way I'd have done the flagpole points for the mario system is to base it off proximity to the outside (based on the last corner before the finish). So if the last corner is a left, whoever finishes furthest to the right gets the most flagpole points.
I got so scared when you started explaining what Balatro was, I didn't recognise the name at first and thought you started doing a gambling sponsorship section
I need to pay rent somehow 🤷♂️
The Mario point system conversion was pure nerd magic. And the Nascar one...let's not talk about it.
But speaking seriously, the Points Every Lap madness seems like...absolutely fair?! That way tactics would be really different. With a slow undercutting you basically ruining your own race, but with a succesful one you gain much more. The whole race becoming a living test, not just a celebration of the end result. Very interesting!
Mario Kart point system next obviously
Mario Kart points would be funny. Also a point for every position with 1st getting 20 to 20th getting 1 would be fun (similar to the old NASCAR points format in 2011 before the stages)
Super Mario Bros point system still makes more sense in F1 than in Super Mario Bros.
It also makes more sense than NASCAR's point system in NASCAR
@@botzachary9891 oh, absolutely.
Not even a motorsports fan, that was a fun watch! Great work!
In case you see this, for future iterations, I suggest a Chess scoring system. Use the FIDE ELO formula and treat every race as a series of head to head competitions. Beat a driver, gain points, lose to a driver, lose points. The number of points won or lost depends on the driver's pre-race score (good driver beats bad driver, few points are exchanged. bad driver beats good driver, many points are exchanged) and a relatively simple formula. Dealer's choice whether both drivers DNFing is a draw or a win for whoever lasted longer.
I think drivers and constructors should have different point systems.
Drivers :
- All positions yield points with a healthy bonus for finishing highest
- Number of drivers * 5 = total points, then distribute points amongst drivers according to a percentage (this ensures future-proofing if the field ever grows or shrinks)
- Pole yields a point, as do fastest lap and at least 5 laps led
- Points deducted for DRIVERS-penalties. (Magnussen would be at minus 4 million by now, using this system)
Constructors :
- Drivers points divided by 2 (2 drivers per team)
- Extra point for fastest pitstop
- Point(s) deducted for TEAM-penalties (like unsafe release)
- Point(s) deducted for using more than alloted parts
What think ye?
5 laps led is dangerous, an overcut could suddenly be worth it even though realistically that says nothing at all
@@Sphagetti__ I'm not the biggest fan of this idea but that does sound like it'd create some insane strategies and would be fun to watch
@@Sphagetti__ : What would make it dangerous?
I do like the concept of getting +100 for a win but -1 million for each penalty, I get the feeling it might encourage clean driving just a little bit
@@MrVsGarage : minus a million might be a bit over the top (just a tad) but how about
corporal punishment?
edit : Just for Magnussen, though 😂
Adding points to the super Mario points based on if you make it out of a crash that someone else doesn't. If one person doesn't make it: 1 enemy stomped, two people: 2 enemies stomped etc.
I think the real problem with the modern F1 points system is the gap between P1 and everyone else (it only serves to benefit dominance rather than consistency).
A better points system would be something like:
P1: 21
P2: 18
P3: 15
P4 - P10 stay the same
Sprint points stay the same
FL gives you 2 points if your team is not leading the constructors championship and 1 point if it is.
20:40 stomping enemies could be destroying other cars like hitting the walls and forgetting brakes exist, so that way Lance Stroll would be the champion
Excel spreadsheet mastermind attempts science to change the history of the least controversial season in F1 history. 👍
emphasis on "attempts" and not "succeeds"
as a Nascar fan, I think peak Nascar points format was the chase. its like the playoffs, but no win and your in, and there are no rounds, so its just a ten race chase for the championship. it kept it interesting, without being stupid.
if they went back to the chase where its top 10 plus 2 outside the to 10 with the most wins, but made it 8 races instead of 10, they would be good.
Talking as though people who thought Hamilton should have been champion were blaming the point system rather than the race director decisions during the Abu Dhabi GP 😂😂😂
So what do you think the points would look like if they used the Australian V8 Supercars point system? Great video btw
2021 season would be won by max with 10-16 points if the FIA fuckery didn't happen in Bahrein and Jeddah. points system wasn't the issue that year in my opinion
Or if his tyre didn't blow out, or if he wasn't crashed out in Silverstone and Hungary. There is no world where Lewis wins that year. Max was just better and both proved who is better the last few years. Max stomps everything and Lewis has ups and downs
@@3xoticG4m3r you are correct. But in the end those were driver errors.
I'd be interested in the old Winston Cup NASCAR Point style format reenvisioned by SlapSh0es, so the Slap Format (excluding Stages). I halfed the points since NASCAR runs with double the field.
Positions: 1st 100pt, 2nd 90pt, 3rd 85pt, ..., 19th 5pt, 20th 1pt
Bonus: Leading a Lap 5pt, Leading most Laps 5pt, Pole Position 5pt, Fastest Lap 5pt, Fastest Pitstop 5pt.
I personally quite like this proposal
I think you're well aware that the controversy between whether Max or Lewis win the 2021 World Championship lies in how the race rules were carried out in Abu Dhabi, not in gripes with the points system. Obvious straw-manning from you aside, this was a very enjoyable video, I love the amount of effort put into it
It is worth noting that american series awarding points to every finishing position usually considered the DNFs as classified position still, so if you're the first one to DNF you're just considered to have finished last
the way a lot of these would flip if Masi didn't decide to make the last race an entertainment show instead of a sport event
Would be great to see the results of a Tour de France (cycling) general classification system where it's a tally of your overall time for each 'stage/race'. Time bonuses for podiums and maybe a sprint championship 'jersey' too. Tricky if you dnf but you could apply a cut off time (+10% of race leaders time) so there is a penalty for dnf.
I do like the idea of forcing the championship leader to paint their car bright yellow
Lewis should have won according to actual points system but okay, Max deserved it based on the season
What an excellent video! I know how difficult making something like this is and you presented it perfectly
thank you, and I don't know what you mean I whipped this video together in about 20 minutes this morning
Whenever I look for truly unique F1 content, I come to Mr V's Garage. Your creativity and Excel work never fail to amaze me!
If I have to nitpick, you could use the team colors for the series. It'd be easier to understand who's who.
I love these data/excel videos! Please make more!!!
I will! 😄
As a nascar fan, I love how the nascar points system takes way longer to explain than any of the others 😂🇺🇸
This is incredibly entertaining and just generally well done. Cackled out loud several times.
I have made up a points system inspired by bowling: 200 regular pts for 1st, then 180 for 2nd, 160, 140, 120, 100, 80, 60, 40, 30, 20, 10 for 12th. 10 regular points for pole, and 10 for fastest lap. 1st place gets bonus points equal to his regular points in the last race, 2nd gets 70% of his regular points, 50% for 3rd, 30%, 20%, 10% for 6th.
No bonus points in the first race or if you did not participate in the previous race. Ignoring sprints.
Just did the 2021 season in Excel, Verstappen beats Hamilton 6078-5861, the only difference at the end of the season is that Norris beats Sainz 2319-2288 for 5th place. Ricciardo finishes 1 point ahead of Gasly, 1593-1592.
Green and yellow jerseys from the Tour de France--remember the bonus time and points. Yellow would be more interesting with some DNFs allowed.
3:28 If you were applying the "only four best results out of seven races" you should do it as a percentage, so it would be 12 races out of 22.
The first thing that came to mind: take the regular season points, convert them to chips, throw the chips in a bag, pull out 1 chip for each point scoring position, the order in which the chips are pulled out is the new race result (even if you pull the same chip multiple times).
12:36 ive been a nascar fan my entire life and i had no idea that you get playoff points for finishing p2-p10 in the regular season 😂
The commentstors always make a big deal about the winner getting 15 playoff points but they never mention p2-p10 get points too, i feel like thats a really important distinction they should point out
Needless to say its def a complex system. Most fans hate the playoffs. Most fans hate stage cautions as well (theres a full course yellow at the end of every stage for those unaware) but interestingly most fans like stage points. I do too - stage points award consistency throughout a race, so if you lead 499 miles and then blow an engine on the final lap, at least you walk away with some points