I was going to guess 480, since you were at the furthest- out position on your cherry picker.. lol! Great to see you digging into the innards, lots of interesting parts in there!
Congratulations you have the finest manual milling machine ever made. I have owned no less than 3 of these each one a little different. I bought my first on a whim without much consideration. I didn't appreciate it until I got it home. The ones I have are all about 1980 vintage they were all painted in a custom color. Each one was purchased 5-10 years apart and from different vendors I think they came from the same factory. (Republic Aircraft in Long Island) The ones I have had vari-drives. I found out when a brand new Bridgeport was $6000. these were $27000!!!! The ones I have are a little different than yours but still have a lot in common. The first one I got had power feed X & Y and power knee lift. I used this one at work. I looked for 10 years to find one for home. The second one had power X no Y no knee lift. I found third years later that had Y feed but no knee lift. I stole the Y feed for my mill at home and restored the third mill to like new and sold it. I designed a simple knee lift with a chain drive and a 1HP motor which is just enough. I like it better than the factory version. So I have a mill at work and one at home. I think the your mill has a 12 x 48 table not 9 x 42 like the Bridgeport. The machine weighs about 3000lbs instead of about 2000lbs (Bridgeport). You will notice the knee is massive. It probably has a 3HP spindle and much better capacity and versatility than an R8 spindle. You will never be happy with an R8 again. The knee is too heavy to hand crank if you don't have power you will need it. There is a fellow in CA that has some parts for these. I tried to buy Y feed and knee lift from him but he didn't have stuff like that. You should restore this machine at all costs it will be worth it. Don't underestimate the value of the nearby X handle you will never use the end handles. The quick change spindle is fantastic. The power feed has many geared feed rates and rapid! (handle up & down) The transmission can be changed while running! I put 4 axis Newall DROs on them X,Y,Knee,quil. It is worth it. Over the years we have restored three of these to like new. I even put a motor on the vari-speed handle at the time I had a rotator cuff injury that prevented me from reaching up to turn it. A vari-drive would be nice but a VFD will go along way. These were made for DoAll by Anyak in Spain. The company is still in business making big CNC's I don't think they make much for this machine. In all of our restorations no major work was required. We had to fix some broken stuff and replace bearings, bushings, seals etc. The ways were all good. The third machine that I sold to a local company is in use every day. I use mine in the home shop regularly it saves me trips to work to do things that I can now do at home. I have a Hardinge toolroom lathe and DoAll mill at work and at home so I can share tools between them. They let me borrow anything I want from work (I own the place). If I can help you with your DoAll let me know. You have a great find there that you will appreciate more and more once you use it.
Hey John, I also have one these and would like to get the contact information of the guy with parts if you wouldn't care to share. So far I have found zero parts in my searches. I only have power x but so far love the machine. Definitely more rigid than an BP.
That is an awesome machine! It looks a lot like the late model Cincinnati Toolmasters which I think also were made in Spain. May have been the same company even. I have a Biax you could go to town on those ways with and likely have scrapped in to tolerance before you could get the knee taken off.
How long are the saddle ways, someone nearby might have a shaper with enough stroke to touch them up... if the wear is very deep.. or maybe even a planer,
Steve, two vids in one day! i like it!! im torn, want you to have a nice machine. but, i sort of hope you tear into it. i agree around 527 lbs. stay safe poppy's workshop says HI
Happy Saturday Morning Steve and Grits! A new machine rebuild! Extremely interesting and inspiring the way you just dig in and start the teardown. Thanks as always for sharing and thanks to Al for the projects. Good Luck, God Bless.
Pretty sweet machine Steve and a great addition to the shop. Just sitting here thinking about you turning the head around to get the knee off. If it’s as heavy as it looks it may want to tip sideways. Especially with all the weight from the table and saddle removed. Just a thought. Stay safe. Love the video’s. (Guess for table weight is 450lbs)
Hey Steve,nice mill...When I started this journey to become a machinist 35 years ago,I remember that mill in the Do All master catalog..It was a machine in my,I'm gonna put this in my shop one day...Wish you much success with her..👽✌
Steve, you have took on a big job on the mill. I know you will accomplish your goal with this mill, it will be a pleasure to watch your progress. Good luck and stay safe and tell Peanut & Walnut hi for me if you see them.
If you think about it, what's the difference if there's a score mark. If the majority of the surface is still more-or-less wear free, you can think of the score mark as an additional oil grooves. You said it yourself at 18:50. I'd still take it apart to make sure whatever it is that caused the scoring has been removed. Been wondering if you've ever had to go back to video to see how something was assembled. Table weight 415 pounds
Hi Steve, your "new" mill looks very much like my Rambaudi mill made in Italy. Same squarish shape, the feeds gear box identical, forward facing X and Y controls, etc. Right about the same size. Just a beast of a mill... hopefully it will be up to snuff for you to keep it.
Hello Steve, like what you do. To remove the coolant on the machine use coolant or water cause its normally water based. Please keep sharing your knowledge. my wife and me are always looking forward to new videos from you. Thank you!
I bought a lot of cars and trucks that had problems as a young guy. Problems that scared others away and made them affordable. Valve jobs, clutches, transmissions on and on. Seeing this makes me wonder is it the same for you here? Did the damage "scare" the price down? It's a great way to upgrade, you've got the initiative (lol and Al!). Looks like a nice machine overall. Thanks for sharing
Your "wedge" is called a tapered gib. Free play is needed to allow axis travel. Precision is controlled by adjusting the gib. Wear on the machine may not allow proper gib adjustment, but your goal is to get it as tight as movement will allow. My practice in reassembly is to indicate this movement. My rule of thumb is to shoot for .0005" indicated free play. You didn't show removal of the gib in detail. Most commonly, tapered gibs are held in position with jack screws on each end. This allows end stops for gib adjustment preload. One end can be backed off and compensated by pressure on the other screw. Variations of this design include a pusher and pull screw on the same end. Your gib had a relief about mid length leading me to wonder if the gib adjustment is keyed to the gib in the middle of gib. If this machine uses an uncommon gib adjustment approach, I hope that you will show it. Lead screw backlash may be in the bearing that controls the screw preload, but far more likely is in the fit of the screw and nut. Lead screws wear unevenly since most work is done in the center of axis travel. The nut is typically the designed wear point and is likely brass or bronze. Some manufacturers will no longer sell nut components separately from the lead screw. Some machines have wear compensation designed into the nut. The nut is split and mechanism can be adjusted to preload the nut backlash and eliminate much of the nut/screw play. Lead screw wear will determine how much adjustment can be effected. Clausing-Colchester lathe cross slide adjustment is simple, because they provide nut adjustment access plainly visible from the top side. Whenever possible, I suggest that you remove the lead screw and the nut assembly from the machine as a unit instead of unthreading the lead screw with the nut still attached. Bench fitting and inspection is more controlled, and if the nut is an assembly, the loose parts alignment can be done in a more controlled environment. You found only one "thrust" bearing, because thrust is controlled by only one end of a lead screw. The outboard bearing provides only end support for the screw. The bearing journal on the outboard end is a close, but slip fit. On really large machines, the screw can sag. Provision is then made to preload thrust support on both ends of the screw and actually allow you to stretch the screw to reduce the sag. I have only seen this technique employed on CNC machines with ball screws. My experience is this stretching preload has never been greater than .0005-.0010". Solid way machines cannot be adjusted to .0000" of free play. Some tolerance is needed to allow movement and for lubrication oil film. CNC machines employ linear guides with forced lubrication to reduce the free play to essentially nothing and reduce friction. This allows tighter machine tolerance, increases axis travel speed and eliminates way damage. Crash damage to linear guides can normally be corrected by relieving hold down clamping force and reseating the guide mounts. I serviced machinery for 34+ years in a high capacity around the clock operation. In all those years, I never had to replace a CNC axis linear guide, and never encountered axis tolerance degredation. Solid ways wear and require maintenance. Point out that the tapered gib provides two directional axis fit control. The axis is mounted on a dovetail. Forcing the tapered gib in to the "slot" applies side to side pressure and hold down pressure simultaneously. The gib is probably designed as the wear surface, equal to or softer than the machine casting hardness. The gib is most likely cast iron. Treat it gently when out of the machine.
I'm a arm chair machinist/advisor/consultant. Now with the disclaimer out of the way. Any gouges (maybe hand stoned down) could be allowed as long as the gibs are able to take up play. I think Mr. Hunt described this eloquently. I would think straitening the bent feed shaft and cleaning the parts and reassembling and dialing in the table back in with gib adjustments would result in a very usable machine. Steve seems to think pragmatically. Why go to all the trouble/expense of grinding those beds/ways if it doesn't add anything to the precision of the machine?
bjr E. WA. Maybe Steve sees it as a learning opportunity? Perhaps some opportunity next video to comment on how one would determine the affect he damages will have on precision?
Thank you guys for adding comments. I enjoy getting to interact with others about these topics. I accept that I am a bit nerdy on these things, and no one in my immediate circles even understands my interest. Salvaging the machine as is for home shop use is an interesting option. I am using that approach on a Le Blond lathe I picked up cheap. It gives me me capacity that I wanted, and I went into the project expecting to be budget minded. My pockets are deeper now. If my Le Blond precision is too compromised, I will most likely shop for a better condition machine with similar capacity. I still cringe to recall a Blanchard grinder repair... I was the boss, but I yielded to my less qualified staff to do a way repair on the cheap. The Blanchard was vintage 1993-1994. Table carriage ways were Turkite and damage got so bad that the material was delaminating. They wanted to clean and apply new Turkite using the glue and stick method. They considered this a complete repair. Everything in me cringed. They didn't seem to grasp any idea of how their repair affected precision of this axis. I was under extreme pressure to get the Blanchard back into production and to control costs. I yielded for only one reason. We used the Blanchard in only one way. The table was moved to fully under the spindle position and stopped always in the same place. All grinding was done only in this location. This made this axis function only as a method to load and unload the chuck. None of my inexperienced staff had ever even dressed a Blanchard chuck or been involved in way repair. I let them install the replacement Turkite and leave it like it glued!!! I then supervised dressing the chuck flat after indicating new spindle perpendicularity as close as I could get it. It took quite some dinking back and forth, but we obtained the production level required results. Under these very specific circumstances, we salvaged a seriously damaged machine and it is fully functional when used as applied. This horrible repair approach was done during the years of instituting Lean Manufacturing principles. Our management had pretty effectively cleared out much of the seasoned technically skilled staff in favor of standard work procedures guiding lower skilled and lower paid staff. I was essentially the only voice of understanding. I wanted to do the Blanchard repair properly, but management machine was driving the show and Lean expediency drove the operating decisions. This story took place about 10 years ago. I have been retired 4 years. The plant has shut down virtually all of the machining since I retired in favor of outsourcing. I got out before these changes took place. The shop probably employed 75-100 machinists and support staff working 7 days a week around the clock. Now they have 15 and only work day shift.
273 lbs is my guess . I find myself waiting every week to see what your videos are about . They are usually the highlight of my watching week bar none . Keep up the awesome job you never disappoint!!!
Cast iron weighs 0.281 pounds a cubic inch and Steve said the table is 12x54 But it has T slots cut out of it and what not. Looks about 4 inches thick to me? So if it was a solid block it'd weigh over 700 pounds.
one of the things i like about your channel your not afraid to tear your machine tools apart. if you need that knee hauled back from wisconsin , I'd be happy to make a road trip to kentucky, my second favorite state next to home (wisconsin)
Congrats on the new mill Steve. I would definitely recommend a VFD for speed control. I've got them on all my machines and they're worth their weight in gold.
For a milling machine to keep, fine a NICE well maintained hardened way tool room Series 1 Bridgeport with a 42 or 48 inch table, you will never regret it ! For small or medium sized work there the way to go over anything else. And if you can find a 4 or 6 inch riser for it , even better . I ran one of them belt drive big mills like that. You will find that climbing up there to change speeds gets old realllllly quick ! !
What a beautiful machine! When you showed the scoring I was looking for a ridge but didn't see any. On the other hand I couldn't see how the sliding surfaces mate with each other. Maybe there will be a ridge on the bottom of the saddle. I don't think the wear can be that terrible unless there is a ridge on one surface or the other. I'd be interested in your opinion on that. I will be looking for a mill one of these days and will need to make some judgment calls before bringing one home. Thanks for all your work in making these videos - they're great!
I am glad to see you take the table off. I recently purchased a used supermax 3hp mill. The one shoot oiler apparently is blocked and I have been toying with the idea of stripping it down.
Assuming you can fix the ways and everything else checks out: Add a DRO, a shop built Power Drawbar and a VFD (for variable speed) and you could have yourself one sweet milling machine. My shop is in my basement and it severely limits my choices of machines, so of course I envy people with real, ground level shops. Mass and rigidity are your friends, not mine 😢. But to be honest, I took machining up to keep on learning and challenging myself. I’m getting my money’s worth of that and plenty of enjoyment. Everything I know, I learned from watching guys like you, Abomb, Keith Fenner, Keith Rucker, Mr. Pete, Ox Tools, Randy Richard and so many others who were just as educational and inspiring. They say you will never know how much you influence others and that is certainly true of the UA-cam machining community.
Its amazing how quickly a single hardened chip can gouge a way. I got lazy keeping chips off the ways milling aluminum and that bit me the first time I milled 304 SS. Went to move the table and it bound up after about 1/2 inch. Moved it back and had a nice 1/2 gouge in my way. Almost cried. Hard lesson learned.
Great machine Steve, it's nice to see you refit the ways an maby some other things, i have don a original Bridgeport refit. Your machine is a bigger lookalike version of the Bridgeport. I think it's wearth to do the job, asspacialy you like this kind of work. I have anjoy it over one year work. Good luck whit it.
VFD on the spindle us an excellent idea. I'd guess the table at 422 lb. Replace all the lube system restrictors. The tiny internal passages jell with oil residues over time but cannot be effectively cleaned by mere mortals. Replace them with new.
Given your usual pace and attention to detail and having been involved in some of that work myself, I'd think scraping and fitting those ways would suit you perfectly.
I know that you are probably aware that when you swing the head out of 90 degrees to the x axis the machine becomes very tippy. Thats why there is holes in the base, the manual recommends bolt the unit to the floor for this reason. I should have added that it is not necessary on 99% of normal use to bolt to the ground. But when you swing the head out of the way to remove the knee, be cautious of this! I am going to enjoy this project 👍🏻
@@paulcopeland9035 no I don’t have one for this unit, but I am looking for one, and its is Steve’s when I do. All knee mills have this bolt down disclaimer in the manuals. Just because the machines are so versatile that you can get them in a precarious state.
Good thing about large mass heads like that is they are great for more aggressive cutting than traditional Bridgeport heads, the bad thing about heads like that is having to articulate the head for angle milling or rotated milling of any kind. Your forearms will get a good workout if that day ever arrives, worm drive screw or not that is A LOT of mass to move around. That is one of the reasons why many of the Series II Bridgeport heads were replaced by standard 2hp heads.
Thanks Steve, a very interesting project, I'm sure we'll all be waiting with bated breath for every episode. Do you think you will be able to show the treatment to the beds? Regards from Wales
I am excited for you Steve about your new toy. Should make a great mill. Q? Can you cut the dovetails of the saddle on your shaper ? Isn't your shaper 28" or something ? --Doozer's Shop
As you pulled off the tarp, "WOW!!!😲 Now THATS a vertical mill!! I very much hope it can be fully restored without major issues. Have you seen the head run under power?
Hi Steve, just a question, did you think about using your stones and cleaning off any high spots and just generally cleaning it and trying the mill on some metal and actualy seeing how bad it really was?
Nice job on the roof of the compressor area. It came out great. That's a beefy machine.. nice.. keep the old machine, you never know when you need a second setup, and don't want to break the first down. I'm thinking that table is about 380. Have you powered the machine to check it out already? Start getting that shop in shape, you'll need it for this rebuild. :-)
148# Table weight? Good to see another machine project in progress Waking up to you in the morning. My project starts in the spring... Fram equipment and planting.I also have a small machine shop & welding equipment. It has really come in handy on many occasions.
I'm guessing 580# for the table...btw the x-axis backlash looks like it's adjustable. From the looks of it, there are two nuts and one can be rotated a bit to take out the lash. I would guess the y-axis has the same arrangement. My Italian made mill has the same kind of backlash setup for the y-axis. The x-axis has a fixed screw and a half nut the entire length of the table. The x-axis control is right out front like yours. Nice machine to run since you don't have to stand to the side to operate it. You will love the front controls.
You got some good friends, they few and far between. Almost makes me wish I had some too! Congrats on the awesome upgrades, looking forward to the future vids. Stay safe
Nice mill, looks to be miles ahead of the other one you have. I have been wanting a toe jack. Is the one you have the 5K top and 2.5K toe lift capacity? It is funny, ever notice no matter how much room you have, it seems you are always working around things. This came to mind watching Steve remove the table. My guess would be around 522 lbs.
At one time in our lives together my wife and I had a freezer that due to space restraints had to sit next to the garage workbench. The freezer no sooner hit the spot, the wife looks at me and tells me I had better not make a mess of the top of the freezer well I know me so I cut a piece of 1/2 inch plywood and siliconed the new top down. After 15 years and three of my stepsons were out of the house and on their own we gave the freezer to a lady on our street with a perfect white top. With that I would like to suggest that you take a minute to cut a piece of plywood for your volunteer shinny white freezer workbench top ! lol
@@SteveSummers Great, now with that, you will be good till the wife wants in the freezer and you have half of the shop sitting on top of the freezer LOL
What a nice mill Steve. Seems well build, and proper dimensions. Much more mass and size than a Bridgeport DrillPress 😂😁 I think the table weights 150kg. I can't wait to see more of your disassembly. Always a joy to watch. Have a nice weekend. Regards from Denmark
Hi Steve at a guess I would say 500lbs, looks a nice piece of kit ,Regards Mike
502 lbs was the weight on my scale. Congratulations😁👍, that was really close.
@Steve Summers how do you keep all of your parts organized when pulling a machine like this apart?
@@mattconn241 most stuff I remember its position. I do set things in related piles and use labels/ bags. 👍
I was going to guess 480, since you were at the furthest- out position on your cherry picker.. lol! Great to see you digging into the innards, lots of interesting parts in there!
My favorite machine in tool and die school.was a Lagun built in Spain. Very robust compared to a bridgeport. Much less deflection on heavy cuts.
Congratulations you have the finest manual milling machine ever made. I have owned no less than 3 of these each one a little different. I bought my first on a whim without much consideration. I didn't appreciate it until I got it home. The ones I have are all about 1980 vintage they were all painted in a custom color. Each one was purchased 5-10 years apart and from different vendors I think they came from the same factory. (Republic Aircraft in Long Island) The ones I have had vari-drives. I found out when a brand new Bridgeport was $6000. these were $27000!!!! The ones I have are a little different than yours but still have a lot in common. The first one I got had power feed X & Y and power knee lift. I used this one at work. I looked for 10 years to find one for home. The second one had power X no Y no knee lift. I found third years later that had Y feed but no knee lift. I stole the Y feed for my mill at home and restored the third mill to like new and sold it. I designed a simple knee lift with a chain drive and a 1HP motor which is just enough. I like it better than the factory version. So I have a mill at work and one at home. I think the your mill has a 12 x 48 table not 9 x 42 like the Bridgeport. The machine weighs about 3000lbs instead of about 2000lbs (Bridgeport). You will notice the knee is massive. It probably has a 3HP spindle and much better capacity and versatility than an R8 spindle. You will never be happy with an R8 again. The knee is too heavy to hand crank if you don't have power you will need it. There is a fellow in CA that has some parts for these. I tried to buy Y feed and knee lift from him but he didn't have stuff like that. You should restore this machine at all costs it will be worth it. Don't underestimate the value of the nearby X handle you will never use the end handles. The quick change spindle is fantastic. The power feed has many geared feed rates and rapid! (handle up & down) The transmission can be changed while running! I put 4 axis Newall DROs on them X,Y,Knee,quil. It is worth it. Over the years we have restored three of these to like new. I even put a motor on the vari-speed handle at the time I had a rotator cuff injury that prevented me from reaching up to turn it. A vari-drive would be nice but a VFD will go along way. These were made for DoAll by Anyak in Spain. The company is still in business making big CNC's I don't think they make much for this machine. In all of our restorations no major work was required. We had to fix some broken stuff and replace bearings, bushings, seals etc. The ways were all good. The third machine that I sold to a local company is in use every day. I use mine in the home shop regularly it saves me trips to work to do things that I can now do at home. I have a Hardinge toolroom lathe and DoAll mill at work and at home so I can share tools between them. They let me borrow anything I want from work (I own the place). If I can help you with your DoAll let me know. You have a great find there that you will appreciate more and more once you use it.
Hey John, I also have one these and would like to get the contact information of the guy with parts if you wouldn't care to share. So far I have found zero parts in my searches. I only have power x but so far love the machine. Definitely more rigid than an BP.
Al’s sure one of a kind, truely a wonderful friend. Great new mill (project) my guess is 427kgs ,regards from down under 🦘
VFD for the spindle is a great way to go, makes belt speed changes minimal
Al is quite the guy! He’s your Savior. Wish I had 3 Al’s. Thank you,Steve. Finally back to machine tools.
Nice and strong milling machine wish you good hunting..... ho ho ho.
John Grizopoylos retired machinist from Greece .
100% positive that the table weight is more than you want sitting on your foot.
Indeed
You had me with the milk joke But man you got me with the nail punch ...Lol ... Nice one Steve...
Another great video Injoy be safe and the very best to all of your family. A friend for life from Ohio.
Hi Steve. Keith Callcut from the U.K. What a wonderful bit of kit. You are so lucky. Makes a Bridgeport look silly.
I dont remember Steve putting in a magnetic floor, but it seems to be attracting a lot of new iron!
Maybe it's his magnetic personality?
That mill is awesome. I hope to see you running it in the future. 319 lbs on table
Al is a legend. Pure and simple. He is helping you have projects for many more episodes!! Lol
That is an awesome machine! It looks a lot like the late model Cincinnati Toolmasters which I think also were made in Spain. May have been the same company even. I have a Biax you could go to town on those ways with and likely have scrapped in to tolerance before you could get the knee taken off.
How long are the saddle ways, someone nearby might have a shaper with enough stroke to touch them up... if the wear is very deep.. or maybe even a planer,
Congrats on the new to you mill Steve! She looks like a workhorse! Looking forward to seeing the progress on this mill.
Steve, two vids in one day! i like it!! im torn, want you to have a nice machine. but, i sort of hope you tear into it. i agree around 527 lbs. stay safe poppy's workshop says HI
It warms my heart that people give you both things. Good People out there still.
You would be surprised how many nice people our out there. Especially if you watch the news or read the papers. Most people are good
I'll second that!! Most of my friends wouldn't give a door a bang!
Table: 293 Lbs. Looks like an awesome (possible) addition to your shop. I hope it works out!
Steve, great seeing you restoring machinery.
Happy Saturday Morning Steve and Grits! A new machine rebuild! Extremely interesting and inspiring the way you just dig in and start the teardown. Thanks as always for sharing and thanks to Al for the projects. Good Luck, God Bless.
Pretty sweet machine Steve and a great addition to the shop. Just sitting here thinking about you turning the head around to get the knee off. If it’s as heavy as it looks it may want to tip sideways. Especially with all the weight from the table and saddle removed. Just a thought. Stay safe. Love the video’s. (Guess for table weight is 450lbs)
Loved that custom designed punch you used to bend back the locking ring on the hearing adjustment! Specialty tools are the best!
Steve "Nailed it". I'll see myself out.
I expect there will be a spike in comments about that.
Hahahaha, probably the best thing to use as nails are soft.
Putting that carpentry experience to good use.
Glad building is coming to a finish and you getting back to some machine work. Good luck on the rework
Hi Steve congrats on the new iron ITS BIG. I live in the OZARKS and really like seeing your area in your videos. nice shop too. 735 lbs
Table weighs exactly 2 and a half hernias! Thanks for sharing! Hopefully its a good machine for you and there are no surprises.
Hey Steve,nice mill...When I started this journey to become a machinist 35 years ago,I remember that mill in the Do All master catalog..It was a machine in my,I'm gonna put this in my shop one day...Wish you much success with her..👽✌
Steve, you have took on a big job on the mill. I know you will accomplish your goal with this mill, it will be a pleasure to watch your progress. Good luck and stay safe and tell Peanut & Walnut hi for me if you see them.
If you think about it, what's the difference if there's a score mark. If the majority of the surface is still more-or-less wear free, you can think of the score mark as an additional oil grooves. You said it yourself at 18:50. I'd still take it apart to make sure whatever it is that caused the scoring has been removed.
Been wondering if you've ever had to go back to video to see how something was assembled.
Table weight 415 pounds
Hi Steve, your "new" mill looks very much like my Rambaudi mill made in Italy. Same squarish shape, the feeds gear box identical, forward facing X and Y controls, etc. Right about the same size. Just a beast of a mill... hopefully it will be up to snuff for you to keep it.
Hello Steve,
like what you do. To remove the coolant on the machine use coolant or water cause its normally water based.
Please keep sharing your knowledge. my wife and me are always looking forward to new videos from you.
Thank you!
I bought a lot of cars and trucks that had problems as a young guy. Problems that scared others away and made them affordable. Valve jobs, clutches, transmissions on and on.
Seeing this makes me wonder is it the same for you here? Did the damage "scare" the price down?
It's a great way to upgrade, you've got the initiative (lol and Al!).
Looks like a nice machine overall. Thanks for sharing
Great to see you back working on machines. You are going to love that mill! My Guess would be 375lb.
Thats a big ol mill. Ought to be able to do some pretty massive jobs on that dude.
A multi digital readout really makes those Bridgeport’s fun. Yep, I went through an apprenticeship for machinists
Steve you might think about putting a VFD drive on for spindle speed , no more changing belts
Your "wedge" is called a tapered gib. Free play is needed to allow axis travel. Precision is controlled by adjusting the gib. Wear on the machine may not allow proper gib adjustment, but your goal is to get it as tight as movement will allow. My practice in reassembly is to indicate this movement. My rule of thumb is to shoot for .0005" indicated free play. You didn't show removal of the gib in detail. Most commonly, tapered gibs are held in position with jack screws on each end. This allows end stops for gib adjustment preload. One end can be backed off and compensated by pressure on the other screw. Variations of this design include a pusher and pull screw on the same end. Your gib had a relief about mid length leading me to wonder if the gib adjustment is keyed to the gib in the middle of gib. If this machine uses an uncommon gib adjustment approach, I hope that you will show it.
Lead screw backlash may be in the bearing that controls the screw preload, but far more likely is in the fit of the screw and nut. Lead screws wear unevenly since most work is done in the center of axis travel. The nut is typically the designed wear point and is likely brass or bronze. Some manufacturers will no longer sell nut components separately from the lead screw. Some machines have wear compensation designed into the nut. The nut is split and mechanism can be adjusted to preload the nut backlash and eliminate much of the nut/screw play. Lead screw wear will determine how much adjustment can be effected. Clausing-Colchester lathe cross slide adjustment is simple, because they provide nut adjustment access plainly visible from the top side. Whenever possible, I suggest that you remove the lead screw and the nut assembly from the machine as a unit instead of unthreading the lead screw with the nut still attached. Bench fitting and inspection is more controlled, and if the nut is an assembly, the loose parts alignment can be done in a more controlled environment.
You found only one "thrust" bearing, because thrust is controlled by only one end of a lead screw. The outboard bearing provides only end support for the screw. The bearing journal on the outboard end is a close, but slip fit. On really large machines, the screw can sag. Provision is then made to preload thrust support on both ends of the screw and actually allow you to stretch the screw to reduce the sag. I have only seen this technique employed on CNC machines with ball screws. My experience is this stretching preload has never been greater than .0005-.0010".
Solid way machines cannot be adjusted to
.0000" of free play. Some tolerance is needed to allow movement and for lubrication oil film. CNC machines employ linear guides with forced lubrication to reduce the free play to essentially nothing and reduce friction. This allows tighter machine tolerance, increases axis travel speed and eliminates way damage. Crash damage to linear guides can normally be corrected by relieving hold down clamping force and reseating the guide mounts. I serviced machinery for 34+ years in a high capacity around the clock operation. In all those years, I never had to replace a CNC axis linear guide, and never encountered axis tolerance degredation. Solid ways wear and require maintenance.
Point out that the tapered gib provides two directional axis fit control. The axis is mounted on a dovetail. Forcing the tapered gib in to the "slot" applies side to side pressure and hold down pressure simultaneously. The gib is probably designed as the wear surface, equal to or softer than the machine casting hardness. The gib is most likely cast iron. Treat it gently when out of the machine.
I'm a arm chair machinist/advisor/consultant. Now with the disclaimer out of the way. Any gouges (maybe hand stoned down) could be allowed as long as the gibs are able to take up play. I think Mr. Hunt described this eloquently. I would think straitening the bent feed shaft and cleaning the parts and reassembling and dialing in the table back in with gib adjustments would result in a very usable machine. Steve seems to think pragmatically. Why go to all the trouble/expense of grinding those beds/ways if it doesn't add anything to the precision of the machine?
bjr E. WA. Maybe Steve sees it as a learning opportunity? Perhaps some opportunity next video to comment on how one would determine the affect he damages will have on precision?
Thank you guys for adding comments. I enjoy getting to interact with others about these topics. I accept that I am a bit nerdy on these things, and no one in my immediate circles even understands my interest.
Salvaging the machine as is for home shop use is an interesting option. I am using that approach on a Le Blond lathe I picked up cheap. It gives me me capacity that I wanted, and I went into the project expecting to be budget minded. My pockets are deeper now. If my Le Blond precision is too compromised, I will most likely shop for a better condition machine with similar capacity.
I still cringe to recall a Blanchard grinder repair... I was the boss, but I yielded to my less qualified staff to do a way repair on the cheap. The Blanchard was vintage 1993-1994. Table carriage ways were Turkite and damage got so bad that the material was delaminating. They wanted to clean and apply new Turkite using the glue and stick method. They considered this a complete repair. Everything in me cringed. They didn't seem to grasp any idea of how their repair affected precision of this axis. I was under extreme pressure to get the Blanchard back into production and to control costs. I yielded for only one reason. We used the Blanchard in only one way. The table was moved to fully under the spindle position and stopped always in the same place. All grinding was done only in this location. This made this axis function only as a method to load and unload the chuck. None of my inexperienced staff had ever even dressed a Blanchard chuck or been involved in way repair. I let them install the replacement Turkite and leave it like it glued!!! I then supervised dressing the chuck flat after indicating new spindle perpendicularity as close as I could get it. It took quite some dinking back and forth, but we obtained the production level required results. Under these very specific circumstances, we salvaged a seriously damaged machine and it is fully functional when used as applied.
This horrible repair approach was done during the years of instituting Lean Manufacturing principles. Our management had pretty effectively cleared out much of the seasoned technically skilled staff in favor of standard work procedures guiding lower skilled and lower paid staff. I was essentially the only voice of understanding. I wanted to do the Blanchard repair properly, but management machine was driving the show and Lean expediency drove the operating decisions.
This story took place about 10 years ago. I have been retired 4 years. The plant has shut down virtually all of the machining since I retired in favor of outsourcing. I got out before these changes took place. The shop probably employed 75-100 machinists and support staff working 7 days a week around the clock. Now they have 15 and only work day shift.
Congratulations on a new piece
Glad to see you back at machinery!
Congratulations on the new machine!
Expertise aside, you DO have the gumption to tackle this project...KUDOS to ya.
I loved the Red Green punch (nail) !!!
if they don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.
@@frotobaggins7169 Any tool can be the right tool !
Great job Steve, Nice new Mill too!
if you send the saddle and the knee out then might as well send the table too. might well worth the extra coinage
I love your outro song "Birds and Daisies" with Racoon Racoon so i now follow them.
I'm so totally jealous!!!! I have 4 lathes but haven't found me the right mill yet.
Nice mill, jealous ha ha
273 lbs is my guess . I find myself waiting every week to see what your videos are about . They are usually the highlight of my watching week bar none . Keep up the awesome job you never disappoint!!!
I thought about 300. If enough of us guess, we can take the average and be within a pound...
312... As he was pulling it off i figured it weights as much as a honda civic, so yeah 312
Cast iron weighs 0.281 pounds a cubic inch and Steve said the table is 12x54 But it has T slots cut out of it and what not. Looks about 4 inches thick to me? So if it was a solid block it'd weigh over 700 pounds.
Nice Saturday morning treat, two videos. Cheers Steve.
one of the things i like about your channel your not afraid to tear your machine tools apart. if you need that knee hauled back from wisconsin , I'd be happy to make a road trip to kentucky, my second favorite state next to home (wisconsin)
Nice! looking forward to seeing you work on it.
Love your videos .......Keep up the great work.
Nice machine Steve. 385.0 lbs ? Hope you took lots of pictures. DRO will be awesome. It’ll be better than new. Thanks for sharing 👍👍👍
Congrats on the new mill Steve. I would definitely recommend a VFD for speed control. I've got them on all my machines and they're worth their weight in gold.
I just finished restoring an Axelson 16 inch, had to scrape the cross slide and gib for it. It was enjoyable to save the old iron!!
For a milling machine to keep, fine a NICE well maintained hardened way tool room Series 1 Bridgeport with a 42 or 48 inch table, you will never regret it ! For small or medium sized work there the way to go over anything else. And if you can find a 4 or 6 inch riser for it , even better . I ran one of them belt drive big mills like that. You will find that climbing up there to change speeds gets old realllllly quick ! !
What a beautiful machine! When you showed the scoring I was looking for a ridge but didn't see any. On the other hand I couldn't see how the sliding surfaces mate with each other. Maybe there will be a ridge on the bottom of the saddle. I don't think the wear can be that terrible unless there is a ridge on one surface or the other. I'd be interested in your opinion on that. I will be looking for a mill one of these days and will need to make some judgment calls before bringing one home. Thanks for all your work in making these videos - they're great!
Has to be nice to work IN the shop instead of ON it!
My WAG is 575lb. Thanks for the video
Time for a DRO project Steve!!
Good for you, Steve, you deserve ,what potentially could be a great machine. I think you’re one of the harder working UA-camrs out there.
I am glad to see you take the table off. I recently purchased a used supermax 3hp mill. The one shoot oiler apparently is blocked and I have been toying with the idea of stripping it down.
Assuming you can fix the ways and everything else checks out: Add a DRO, a shop built Power Drawbar and a VFD (for variable speed) and you could have yourself one sweet milling machine. My shop is in my basement and it severely limits my choices of machines, so of course I envy people with real, ground level shops. Mass and rigidity are your friends, not mine 😢. But to be honest, I took machining up to keep on learning and challenging myself. I’m getting my money’s worth of that and plenty of enjoyment. Everything I know, I learned from watching guys like you, Abomb, Keith Fenner, Keith Rucker, Mr. Pete, Ox Tools, Randy Richard and so many others who were just as educational and inspiring. They say you will never know how much you influence others and that is certainly true of the UA-cam machining community.
Man, I need to get me an Al in my life. LOL
Remember to leave some room to walk between all the new iron you are adding😀
Wish I had the space for more tools!
Keep up the great videos.
Congrats on the new (to you) shaper! A little work and she’s good as new!👍
Steve gets a free monster mill....I’d be happy to have a Chinese bench top machine..... Seriously jealous......
370 lbs is my guess.Great Weekend as I got to see carpenter Steve and Machinest Steve on the same day. life is good.
Your sure getting a lot of quality equipment, you will get it fixed up right.
What a beast of a mill, congrats💪🏼
Its amazing how quickly a single hardened chip can gouge a way. I got lazy keeping chips off the ways milling aluminum and that bit me the first time I milled 304 SS. Went to move the table and it bound up after about 1/2 inch. Moved it back and had a nice 1/2 gouge in my way. Almost cried. Hard lesson learned.
Way wipers and covers are soooo important.
Great machine Steve, it's nice to see you refit the ways an maby some other things, i have don a original Bridgeport refit. Your machine is a bigger lookalike version of the Bridgeport. I think it's wearth to do the job, asspacialy you like this kind of work. I have anjoy it over one year work. Good luck whit it.
VFD on the spindle us an excellent idea.
I'd guess the table at 422 lb.
Replace all the lube system restrictors. The tiny internal passages jell with oil residues over time but cannot be effectively cleaned by mere mortals. Replace them with new.
628 lbs. My guess.
Hope repairs go well.
Nice machine.
Given your usual pace and attention to detail and having been involved in some of that work myself, I'd think scraping and fitting those ways would suit you perfectly.
I know that you are probably aware that when you swing the head out of 90 degrees to the x axis the machine becomes very tippy. Thats why there is holes in the base, the manual recommends bolt the unit to the floor for this reason.
I should have added that it is not necessary on 99% of normal use to bolt to the ground. But when you swing the head out of the way to remove the knee, be cautious of this! I am going to enjoy this project 👍🏻
You have the manual for this machine? Scan it. No need to be selfish!
@@paulcopeland9035 no I don’t have one for this unit, but I am looking for one, and its is Steve’s when I do. All knee mills have this bolt down disclaimer in the manuals. Just because the machines are so versatile that you can get them in a precarious state.
Good thing about large mass heads like that is they are great for more aggressive cutting than traditional Bridgeport heads, the bad thing about heads like that is having to articulate the head for angle milling or rotated milling of any kind. Your forearms will get a good workout if that day ever arrives, worm drive screw or not that is A LOT of mass to move around. That is one of the reasons why many of the Series II Bridgeport heads were replaced by standard 2hp heads.
Interesting work.
Each layer seems more complex.
I'm glad you have films just in case.
851 pounds since that's a vintage Ducati.
Thanks Steve, a very interesting project, I'm sure we'll all be waiting with bated breath for every episode. Do you think you will be able to show the treatment to the beds? Regards from Wales
I dont believe I'll be able to show the actual grinding of the way unfortunately. Its possible though 👍
@@SteveSummers Cheers Steve, if you can it will be a bonus, i'll be watching anyways!
Great video Steve, I really enjoy your machine set-up and rebuild work.
I am excited for you Steve about your new toy. Should make a great mill. Q? Can you cut the dovetails of the saddle on your shaper ? Isn't your shaper 28" or something ? --Doozer's Shop
As you pulled off the tarp, "WOW!!!😲 Now THATS a vertical mill!! I very much hope it can be fully restored without major issues. Have you seen the head run under power?
Hi Steve, just a question, did you think about using your stones and cleaning off any high spots and just generally cleaning it and trying the mill on some metal and actualy seeing how bad it really was?
Great fun to watch the disassembly! I've always wondered what was going on in there! Nice score - hope it pans out.
Nice mill,my quess for the table weight is 350 kg🙂
Nice job on the roof of the compressor area. It came out great. That's a beefy machine.. nice.. keep the old machine, you never know when you need a second setup, and don't want to break the first down.
I'm thinking that table is about 380.
Have you powered the machine to check it out already? Start getting that shop in shape, you'll need it for this rebuild. :-)
210lbs. Al is the Uncle you never knew you needed.
148# Table weight? Good to see another machine project in progress Waking up to you in the morning. My project starts in the spring... Fram equipment and planting.I also have a small machine shop & welding equipment. It has really come in handy on many occasions.
235 lbs very nice machine when repairs are completed good luck
Great Steve !!! A new machine in the workshop !! You´ll need more space soon...
300lbs!!!
Looks like a cross between a series 2 and a series 1. Basically a series 2 without the box ways. Nice score buddy!!!
Nice mill !! 215 pounds.
458 lbs. Steve. Glad to see your new machine. Good luck with it.
I'm guessing 580# for the table...btw the x-axis backlash looks like it's adjustable. From the looks of it, there are two nuts and one can be rotated a bit to take out the lash. I would guess the y-axis has the same arrangement. My Italian made mill has the same kind of backlash setup for the y-axis. The x-axis has a fixed screw and a half nut the entire length of the table. The x-axis control is right out front like yours. Nice machine to run since you don't have to stand to the side to operate it. You will love the front controls.
Speechless! That's one impressive new toy...
You got some good friends, they few and far between. Almost makes me wish I had some too! Congrats on the awesome upgrades, looking forward to the future vids. Stay safe
Nice mill, looks to be miles ahead of the other one you have. I have been wanting a toe jack. Is the one you have the 5K top and 2.5K toe lift capacity?
It is funny, ever notice no matter how much room you have, it seems you are always working around things. This came to mind watching Steve remove the table.
My guess would be around 522 lbs.
160kg (353lb). Interesting project. Should be a great machine when refurbished. Look forward to seeing the progress.
At one time in our lives together my wife and I had a freezer that due to space restraints had to sit next to the garage workbench. The freezer no sooner hit the spot, the wife looks at me and tells me I had better not make a mess of the top of the freezer well I know me so I cut a piece of 1/2 inch plywood and siliconed the new top down. After 15 years and three of my stepsons were out of the house and on their own we gave the freezer to a lady on our street with a perfect white top. With that I would like to suggest that you take a minute to cut a piece of plywood for your volunteer shinny white freezer workbench top ! lol
😁
@@SteveSummers Great, now with that, you will be good till the wife wants in the freezer and you have half of the shop sitting on top of the freezer LOL
I thought this is the DoAll restoration channel lol..... cool video as usual....
What a nice mill Steve.
Seems well build, and proper dimensions. Much more mass and size than a Bridgeport DrillPress 😂😁
I think the table weights 150kg.
I can't wait to see more of your disassembly. Always a joy to watch.
Have a nice weekend.
Regards from Denmark