Agreed. Im just more confident in Metro's ability to actually improve/build things than VRE or MARC. A drastically improved regional rail system would be a game changer, I think having the metro and commuter agencies split is hindering alot of improvements.
The Camden line is useless it’s better to scrap it may as well create an intercity metro we know that almost nobody rides metros end to end. And it works in India it can work here too so no. Camden line is a failure as is the Brunswick line all passenger lines need to be government owned
@@DanHominemVirginia is going to boost VRE thanks to the ROW they purchased. But you make a good case for maglev intercity service that acts like a de facto express
Maryland train project wishlist: - New Bay Bridge built with heavy rail ROW to carry a new MARC line from Union station to Ocean City with stops in Bowie, Annapolis, Kent Island, Easton, Cambridge, Salisbury. - MARC line connecting Union Station to Lexington Park, generally following Route 5 with stops in Clinton, Waldorf, Hughesville, Charlotte Hall, California. -Extend the Brunswick line to Hagerstown. -Silver line to Annapolis via Bowie and Davidsonville -Orange line to Glen Burnie light rail via Lanham, Bowie State, Waugh Chapel, BWMC. -Blue line loop through national harbor to Springfield across the Wilson bridge. -Green line to BWI as you mention -Red line extensions to Germantown and Olney -New metro line connecting Rockville to Reston as an alternative option to cross the Potomac. -WMATA takes control of light rail and Baltimore subway, then adds 3 subway lines crossing Baltimore and numerous street level light rails on Baltimore’s wider avenues. -New Key Bridge with light rail ROW Let a man dream of a traffic free Maryland
Waldort and Ocean City right of ways would be huge. Through-running between MARC and VRE, too. Imagine having regular regional rail service from Baltimore to Fredericksburg!
It would be nice since the B30 no longer exists. In used to take it because it ran every 30 minutes and it was a blessing. Then it became once an hour, then weekends only then discontinued. A one seat, cheaper ride to D.C. is a no brainer. But MTA Maryland would have to foot most if the bill so that will never happen. If MARC at Camden ran daily every half hour it would be more plausible but more expensive and they have to deal with CSX and their bullsh*t as it is.
I don't see the logic of running into Baltimore - but I absolutely do see the logic of a BWI extension. With identical gauges, if the engineering can be developed to have both 3rd rail and catenary, the Green Line can use the same rails as the Baltimore Light Rail into the terminal. That would allow a good exchange to LR from the Green Line if you really wanted to go on to Baltimore...
The cities are really close and growing together, and if the track goes to BWI, might as well get the ridership benefit from going all the way to Baltimore.
@@DanHominem True - but I think it's best to look at mass transit development as a full system. There currently are 1-stop options for most DC residents to get to Baltimore (Metro to either the Camden or Penn MARC lines to Baltimore). There is no one-stop option for access from DC to BWI however (unless you stop at the BWI station you mentioned, but that actually is a 2-stop option as there is a bus from the station to the terminal). Your proposed Green Line extension to the BWI Terminal - if it were to use the Light Rail fascilities - offers just that - a 1-stop option from anywhere in DC to BWI airport. Functionally this would mean that any resident of DC could get on any of the Metro lines at their home station, and only need to change trains once to get to any of the three metropolitan airport options. That is HUGE. The added cost to get to Baltimore with a branch however is extreme. Remember that this means many more trainsets in addition to the trackage. The only DC residents who would get a transit benefit from that portion are those that live along the portions of the blue and silver lines that do not overlap with orange (those are the only portions of the DC Metro system that do not currently offer a 1-stop option to Baltimore, all other lines and sections do with MARC or Amtrak connections at multiple points on the orange, red, and green lines - providing yellow line service is ultimately expanded back to Greenbelt...
@qjtvaddict Main issue there is there is no rail to Annapolis already, so itll require original contruction either way. But thst long of a distance, "commuter" rail makes more sense, especially with the lack of sensity. DC needs a Philly or Chicago scale commuter rail honestly
It's an interesting idea in a world with infinite resources and political will. I really appreciate the detail of your approach, looking at specific alignments and elevation changes, you definitely went way above and beyond crayoning in my opinion, haha. But, I disagree with the concept overall. A few critiques: you disregard the Penn Line as "out of the way" and being on a bad alignment, allowing you to compare your proposal to the Camden Line. Despite the slightly circuitous route, the Penn Line is definitely the stronger competitor than the Camden Line. Since it runs on the Amtrak-owned Northeast Corridor tracks, its a simple funding issue to add more frequency there. Between MARC Penn Line and Amtrak, there are 52 trains leaving DC and stopping at BWI on northbound trips tomorrow! That's already a really good level of service! In the same vein, I think the length of time of this trip makes it impractical. Even with the circuitous route, a MARC Penn Line train making all stops takes 35 minutes, and Amtrak generally 20-25. I don't see a downtown-to-BWI trip along this route taking less than an hour, probably a bit more. That length of trip is going to be a major negative for most riders. In terms of the intermediary service, I don't think the level of development justifies it. From 30,000 feet on google earth, areas like Laurel and Annapolis Junction look like decent sized towns, but realistically if you've seen them in person, they're just near-continual strip malls with lots of suburban single family homes behind them, which will be mostly park-and-ride style stations. Maybe it sparks future development and rezoning, but I don't see this as a priority area for new Metro service when there are so many much denser destinations in DC that are ripe for development. Again, I really like your approach. I would love to see you tackle a concept inside DC, like maybe an Orange-Line realignment that makes it truly distinct from the SV/BL and not just a branch of that main trunk line.
Thank you for the well thought criticism! There are a few reasons I brought up this route that I probably should have went into more detail on, but it mostly revolves around Baltimore and DC becoming more intergrated over time and the large amount of development in that area. Beyond Laurel, I do see the route becoming less and less useful, and honestly drastically improved MARC service on Camden and Penn would also be a great idea as well. I would love to see a DC RER type service.
The metro isn’t for intercity trips, if we want to make Baltimore easier to get to then we should make the penn and Camden lines better.
Agreed. Im just more confident in Metro's ability to actually improve/build things than VRE or MARC.
A drastically improved regional rail system would be a game changer, I think having the metro and commuter agencies split is hindering alot of improvements.
The Camden line is useless it’s better to scrap it may as well create an intercity metro we know that almost nobody rides metros end to end. And it works in India it can work here too so no. Camden line is a failure as is the Brunswick line all passenger lines need to be government owned
@@DanHominemVirginia is going to boost VRE thanks to the ROW they purchased. But you make a good case for maglev intercity service that acts like a de facto express
Maryland train project wishlist:
- New Bay Bridge built with heavy rail ROW to carry a new MARC line from Union station to Ocean City with stops in Bowie, Annapolis, Kent Island, Easton, Cambridge, Salisbury.
- MARC line connecting Union Station to Lexington Park, generally following Route 5 with stops in Clinton, Waldorf, Hughesville, Charlotte Hall, California.
-Extend the Brunswick line to Hagerstown.
-Silver line to Annapolis via Bowie and Davidsonville
-Orange line to Glen Burnie light rail via Lanham, Bowie State, Waugh Chapel, BWMC.
-Blue line loop through national harbor to Springfield across the Wilson bridge.
-Green line to BWI as you mention
-Red line extensions to Germantown and Olney
-New metro line connecting Rockville to Reston as an alternative option to cross the Potomac.
-WMATA takes control of light rail and Baltimore subway, then adds 3 subway lines crossing Baltimore and numerous street level light rails on Baltimore’s wider avenues.
-New Key Bridge with light rail ROW
Let a man dream of a traffic free Maryland
Waldort and Ocean City right of ways would be huge. Through-running between MARC and VRE, too. Imagine having regular regional rail service from Baltimore to Fredericksburg!
It would be nice since the B30 no longer exists. In used to take it because it ran every 30 minutes and it was a blessing. Then it became once an hour, then weekends only then discontinued. A one seat, cheaper ride to D.C. is a no brainer. But MTA Maryland would have to foot most if the bill so that will never happen. If MARC at Camden ran daily every half hour it would be more plausible but more expensive and they have to deal with CSX and their bullsh*t as it is.
P.S. Annapolis Junction has a MARC Camden Line station - seems logical to meet that station and make a connection site...
The connection site itself is not going to be station friendly most likely, but Halethorpe is quite close!
I don't see the logic of running into Baltimore - but I absolutely do see the logic of a BWI extension. With identical gauges, if the engineering can be developed to have both 3rd rail and catenary, the Green Line can use the same rails as the Baltimore Light Rail into the terminal. That would allow a good exchange to LR from the Green Line if you really wanted to go on to Baltimore...
The cities are really close and growing together, and if the track goes to BWI, might as well get the ridership benefit from going all the way to Baltimore.
@@DanHominem True - but I think it's best to look at mass transit development as a full system. There currently are 1-stop options for most DC residents to get to Baltimore (Metro to either the Camden or Penn MARC lines to Baltimore). There is no one-stop option for access from DC to BWI however (unless you stop at the BWI station you mentioned, but that actually is a 2-stop option as there is a bus from the station to the terminal). Your proposed Green Line extension to the BWI Terminal - if it were to use the Light Rail fascilities - offers just that - a 1-stop option from anywhere in DC to BWI airport. Functionally this would mean that any resident of DC could get on any of the Metro lines at their home station, and only need to change trains once to get to any of the three metropolitan airport options. That is HUGE. The added cost to get to Baltimore with a branch however is extreme. Remember that this means many more trainsets in addition to the trackage. The only DC residents who would get a transit benefit from that portion are those that live along the portions of the blue and silver lines that do not overlap with orange (those are the only portions of the DC Metro system that do not currently offer a 1-stop option to Baltimore, all other lines and sections do with MARC or Amtrak connections at multiple points on the orange, red, and green lines - providing yellow line service is ultimately expanded back to Greenbelt...
I'd like to see a WMATA to Annapolis video!
That ironically makes more sense as a MARC extension
@qjtvaddict Main issue there is there is no rail to Annapolis already, so itll require original contruction either way. But thst long of a distance, "commuter" rail makes more sense, especially with the lack of sensity.
DC needs a Philly or Chicago scale commuter rail honestly
Interesting route! I never thought about having a branch to BWI, but it makes a lot of sense!
It's an interesting idea in a world with infinite resources and political will. I really appreciate the detail of your approach, looking at specific alignments and elevation changes, you definitely went way above and beyond crayoning in my opinion, haha. But, I disagree with the concept overall.
A few critiques: you disregard the Penn Line as "out of the way" and being on a bad alignment, allowing you to compare your proposal to the Camden Line. Despite the slightly circuitous route, the Penn Line is definitely the stronger competitor than the Camden Line. Since it runs on the Amtrak-owned Northeast Corridor tracks, its a simple funding issue to add more frequency there. Between MARC Penn Line and Amtrak, there are 52 trains leaving DC and stopping at BWI on northbound trips tomorrow! That's already a really good level of service! In the same vein, I think the length of time of this trip makes it impractical. Even with the circuitous route, a MARC Penn Line train making all stops takes 35 minutes, and Amtrak generally 20-25. I don't see a downtown-to-BWI trip along this route taking less than an hour, probably a bit more. That length of trip is going to be a major negative for most riders.
In terms of the intermediary service, I don't think the level of development justifies it. From 30,000 feet on google earth, areas like Laurel and Annapolis Junction look like decent sized towns, but realistically if you've seen them in person, they're just near-continual strip malls with lots of suburban single family homes behind them, which will be mostly park-and-ride style stations. Maybe it sparks future development and rezoning, but I don't see this as a priority area for new Metro service when there are so many much denser destinations in DC that are ripe for development.
Again, I really like your approach. I would love to see you tackle a concept inside DC, like maybe an Orange-Line realignment that makes it truly distinct from the SV/BL and not just a branch of that main trunk line.
Thank you for the well thought criticism! There are a few reasons I brought up this route that I probably should have went into more detail on, but it mostly revolves around Baltimore and DC becoming more intergrated over time and the large amount of development in that area.
Beyond Laurel, I do see the route becoming less and less useful, and honestly drastically improved MARC service on Camden and Penn would also be a great idea as well. I would love to see a DC RER type service.
What software did you use to map this out?
Google Earth Pro, the final map was made in Inkscape
Very cool!
No need for BWI branch extend the light rail to connect to the green line
Impossible the metro doesn’t go to Baltimore.
Wrong repeal NEPA and build again