I FINALLY see the light - changing my opinion on guitar amp modelers
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
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Think of modelers like this-it’s a recorded tone being played live. Dialing in a modeler is not about getting an amp in the room experience, you’re crafting the sound as you would a mic’ed up amp.
I got a reality check a few weeks ago when I took a modeler out to a gig. Literally felt the same as my tube amp. Went to practice with both my traditional setup and the modeler…no difference. After that, I said “what…the…FFFF”. Then, my recorded tones. BETTER than the tube head I had and as good as my old Uberschall. Like dead-on with the tracks I did with it. Once I realized I could configure my dream of having a 3 channel Uberschall and have all the effects I could ever want all in one space, I said “no more shall I look away from the future, bring it on!”
Exactly! I had to really change my mindset when I got a Helix.
This is the same realization I had to come to in order to appreciate modelers. It is producing a miced cab sound, not a cab in the room sound.
Jim Lill said it best - "The amp in the room sound is an ILLUSION" \m/
Ah, 'literally' doesn't mean what you think it means, by the word's own definition. It's like you said Microsoft Flight Sim, is 'literally' like flying a real plane, let alone theone that helps your certification to fly them. Also, what tube amp models DSP amps, instead of the other way around? The answer speaks volumes.
@@serpentsbane9166 No, it's the reality of playing, wait for it, an amp in the room, with no PA. You know, like Hendrix, Zeppelin, Beatles, Miles, etc, did for generations. Sorry, but "Jim Lill" doesn't get to rewrite reality with a platitude... as that would be silly.
As others are saying and finding out…tube power amp…
I’ve been a digital fan since 1987 with a zoom Multi-Effects into a stereo system using RCA jacks.
I’m VERY familiar with Solid State:)
I’ve literally just found the joy of tubes and analog amps, almost 40 years later.
I’ve tried soooooo many combinations and while a fan of modelers I’ve finally found out the missing piece…Tube power.
I’ve tried EVERY way to avoid tubes.
I’ve had some great sounds and thought “I was done”.
My playing is just for me, for my own home enjoyment and I can’t believe it’s taken me this long to find the love and understanding of tubes.
Modelers are cool…but using tube power makes the “great” amazing.
Meanwhile I just got a Synergy 50w with various modules and the new Engl FB 25 with KT77’s, NOTHING has ever sounded or felt better.
(I’m using a custom KW 2x12 cab with Celestion type “A’s”)
Every demo of this unit I’ve seen has been very impressive 🤟🏻
I got this unit about 3 months ago and can safely say this thing is an absolute beast. It's so much fun as well, the effects are incredible. It's intuitive as heck. The amp models are all so good. Highly recommend.
Hey, can you use it to program real amp channel changes?
@@juankyman8404 I think they're going to install midi control in the near future. So not right now, but it will!
Thanks for making this video! I got this unit a couple of months ago, and you demonstrated some features I hadn’t realized were there! I love real amps, but we can’t deny the practical side of modelers. The main reason I chose this unit over more expensive ones is that I’ve come to realize good amps are usually an asset/investment or at worst retain a certain value, whereas modelers, even high-end ones, will always be an expense that quickly loses value.
Who cares if your a professional musician doing music for a living you write it off and it pays itself off 100s of times over as your using it for work and getting paid
May be difficult editing wise, but adding a clip of you playing the valve version of the amp model in these kind of units for comparision would be sick. I know you have a library of straight SM57 mic amps. Might as well use them.
The tube version
He is shilling this thing. You will never see him feature this thing again.
@@war2thegrave You're wise beyond your years, even if you're 300 years old.
@@war2thegravethey only paid me $3, too. Ive paid more to suck dick for crack before.
Yes, you read that right.
+1 for direct comparisons to the amps that this is modeling! That would be cool.
So the 2 guitarists into 1 modeler is something my band does. We run an Axe Fx 3. It has enough I/O for us to both run to front of house AND run it into a power amp to power individual cabinets on stage. It pushes the DSP a little but even our craziest patches don't go above 70%. It's set and forget and we've had no issues since doing it. We never have to worry about someone being way louder on stage or adjusting stuff. Plus if the sound guy prefers micing cabs he over going direct he has that option. My only fear is if it goes down..... we're completely hosed lol. Having something like this to patch in really quick might be the move. Definitely can't afford another Axe so it's good to see the newer more affordable modelers are bumping up the DSP and sound quality. Great Video!
That sounds really interesting. How do you guys handle switching sounds?
Sounds gay
Do you ever accidentally kiss while pressing the footswitches?
@@thesteamycreamofdualjabbar6486 one minute you're just playing a thru your set, the next minute you and the guitarist are docking
@@GallowayJesse Wait... so you guys are saying when you switch channels you don't give your other guitarist a fat, wet kiss right on his pretty mouth? What next you're going to tell me watching the training scenes in Rocky 3 on repeat is "Sus" as the youth say.
I've got the Ampero stomp II which is the little bro of the stage, but everything is the same except for DSP and some IO features but, There's so much fun to be had with them without losing your wallet on a quad cortex or an axe fx. The 3 knobs and the interface makes it very tactile to move things and edit the programs quick. Ampero is a sleeper IMO.
I've travelled with mine and headphones while i was on vacay and smashed riffs at the end of every day just looking at the sea, it was best time.
I think that you can use scenes on the stage II, which was not available on the stomp
The versatility, capabilities, and portability of modelers can't be denied, think they've made a believer of all of us. 👍
Great demo Kyle. I just ordered one of these for $448 new after discounts. Ridiculous!! I can't wait to rock this thing!
I use the stomp and dude that little global eq you did there made my day! I gave the push that I needed
Kyle can you do an in depth video of how you record/mic up your cabs?
Only if someone gives him some microphones to shill.
After watching reviews for years on modelers, I pulled the trigger on this unit. The Axe fx was outta my budget, but this unit is perfect for my needs! Thanks for the review!🤣🤘
For a long time, I've tried to get a good modeler high gain tone to sound good out of a cab, to which I finally discovered you need a tube power amp to drive it. You're welcome. I wish someone would've told me years ago, it would of have saved me countless hours of sitting there doin palm mutes and messing with settings
Yeah, all the pedals I sent back because I didn’t think they worked. Apparently they need a power supply 😅
Great video bud
my guy
We’re at a point where the tech is finally sounding like the real thing, and the illusion of paying more money to sound good is fading. It’s fantastic.
I was down to choosing the Ampero stage II and the HeadRush Core. I snagged a Core for $630 new in box and Im very happy I'd still love to try the Stage II.
Awesome video Kyle. Thanks for sharing.
This into a quilter tone block 202 and a 4x12 mesa or marshall (I heard both) is legit. Played a gig with an Ampero One, Quilter and Mesa 2x12 and it f ing rocked.
I've been a 2 Stomp user for a few years. The 900 is my go to model over all the others. Love them. When my A2S dies I will be going to the Stage. I use it for recording.
Got a question about the setup with the IRs.
Did you also send this through your Cab and record that, or did you take the signal straight out of the ampero?
Thanks for awnsers!
The current gen of modelers/profilers can do amazing things. If you take the time to dial in your sound, all you need is the right FRFR powered cabinet with on board IRs and you have a killer setup. Turn off the cabinet sim in the pedal and use the IRs in the cabinet. This has been the way to go for me.
Great demo Kyle. And as a veteran of the NYHC scene I always appreciate the Leeway riffs.
My man!
It occurred to me you added a power amp model with the separate preamp when you're already going into the effects return of the amp. That was also probably my favorite tone of the video so it falls squarely in the "if it sounds good, it is good" bucket. I have their Ampero Control for my Astro-20 and to use with my plugins, and another version of their volume pedals that I use for expression. Pretty robustly build like you said. I like using the expression pedal to control the level on the overdrive pedal in my plugins. It makes it pretty easy to go from really tight rhythm to full on grindy chugs without changing presets
I have one. I turn off the cab/ir block and run it into the effects return of one of my tube amps and a Mesa 212 cab with V30s. Sounds great! If you have a guitar with both magnetic and piezo pickups, you can run the magnetic pickup signal through a standard amp chain and out to your power amp and cab, then run the piezo signal through a parallel path with a nice acoustic air and put your antenna acoustic amp. Really nice functionality.
Intro riff sounds bad ass man!!!
Very cool man, you nailed some great tones there. This is what I use live on a weekly basis and I get compliments on the tone every time. Wah in the front and cover shows all day.
Got a 2nd rig I'm putting together with the AMT pedals, we'll see which one wins 🤘
These things are so much more practical than lugging around a huge and heavy tube amp to shows. How do these things sound with a solid state power amp?
Jazz hands for the win.
Modelers sound best through a tube amp power section, but I have the same EVH Stealth. Because the stealth doesn't have a master volume control you can't adjust the volume at all since it bypassess the preamp volumes. Wondering why you picked that amp?
Man that’s such a thrash machine! Came here for the review and stayed for the sick riffs
Appreciate u!
I wish ampero would do something like the tonex that just has tones on it. No fx. No capturing even needed. Maybe the ability to add my own IR’s and a bunch of quality amp tones. I would be 100% in on that product. Ampero kind of came out of nowhere for me and I’m liking what I’m seeing so far.
to me this review was your best so far keep up the good work bro
appreciated!
Modelers are great if you know how to set them up right. Treat them like preamp "amp-in-a-box" pedals and the individual FX components modeled inside, and they suddenly make a lot more sense. As someone else said, it's album tone, live, if you use the IR functionality. That said, you can easily turn off the IR and run it through a power amp and into a cab, as Kyle is here in this video. Reamping a DI tone through a modeler and then through the amp being modeled (or a similar unit if no direct comparison is available with the modeler at hand) or simply using the built-in looper function most of these things already have and turning off the FX to run the loop into your pedalboard/amp will often work just fine. If the looper is after the FX, then use a separate one.
Ive owned many tube amps over the years but Ive also been using modelers since the DOD days of rack mount models ( lol guess you know how old I am now)..
hands down, the Axe FX 3 MKII Turbo is the best. Yeah their expensive but well worth the money. With the latest firmware updates and revoicing of all amp models that unit kicks ass in all situations. I haven’t turned on a tube amp in probably 2 years pr so.
Just a note I don’t use it for dad rock tones.
Its Heavy metal or die for me!!
Great video!! Keep doing what your doing!! 👊🏻👊🏻👍
Would love to get my hands on some Fractal stuff at some point!
Would love to see your take on the Axe FX3
Damn….i gotta say, going into the power amp of a tube amp to a speaker sounds Amazing..this is the way to use these for the best sound IMO..
agreed! the power amp does matter a lot, even still. Will sound better through some than others.
The Ampero Silver Edition from the Thomann 70th deal (170 EUR!) was SUCH as steal - I only added to external switches for patch switching. But it even has an exp pedal.
I just hope they fix some of the firmware issues (FX switching delay and some fx are freaking loud).
I use it for bass, acoustic and electric guitar tones - running a B7K sim -> SVT, Precision Drive, Fortin 33 boost -> 5150 amp with custom IRs. Sounds huge with a global EQ cutting the highs
*There's no way around the digital takeover.*
Analog can become much better and prices can comedown making it competitive, but digital will likely kill off analog guitar gear within our lifetimes.
"There's no way around the digital takeover" *Along with, "servos will kill off all hydraulics"&"Microwaves will end all electric ovens"&"Jet engines will replace all propeller planes"&"canned food will replace all fresh food", etc, "in our lifetime".*
@@kennethc2466 absolutely none of those are equivalents to digital, replacing analog. If you had any scientific depth in any of those technologies and an accredited science, you would be more than aware that digital will without question wipe everything else off the map within our lifetimes.
In another 20 years, digital will account for 90% of all guitar technologies. It's likely to be 50% in under just 10 more years.
@@JonDeth I'm sorry the facts hurt your feelings, as you double down on fallacious absolutisms, refuted by the above FACTS. Meanwhile, in reality, the audio market of tubes is LARGER now, than in 1985, and future quantum computers are ANALOG, as well as the human brain being non binary, aka, WAVEFORM ANALOG. Enjoy your 1's and 0's as the 'end all' tech... like a flint knife. PS, learn some science, instead of hating it.
Never! Fuck digital. I do not like it. It does NOT sound the same. Never sounds the same. Doesn't have the stage presence either. You can actually feel tube amps, you can't feel modelers. If that's your thing cool. BUT THEY WILL NEVER TAKE OVER
@@Whowhatwhere99 *solid-state is far more expressive than valve which is why everyone uses stomp boxes in front of their tube amps.* If you run nothing but pure valve distortion, it literally sounds like glitter when you hit pinch harmonics because bandwidth resolution is absolutely terrible.
When you use an overdrive, distortion, fuzz etc. in front of your valve's dirty channel, the raunch and sleaze you seek for pinch harmonics, bends etc. is a blend of solid-state and valve.
As it is, solid-state analog already outperforms valves and digital is replacing analog at a steady pace. *I'm literally a scientist with a formal background in electrical/electronics engineering and I'm not regarding measured opinions, I'm regarding facts.* I can already design and build transistor fuzzes that sound identical to tube distortion only significantly better. Achieving the same with digital is even easier and some major brands are finally doing it.
In 20 years, digital will be 90% of the active devices available for guitar.
I personnally love the Ampero for its amp modeling. I have the 1st gen and it was already pretty good. I did several comparison of the Ampero vs Synergy preamps and it was nearly impossible to distinguish the tone when running both as preamp into the fx return of my tube amp. The cab modeling was not great on gen1 but is now pretty good on gen2 and with IRs you don't even need it. Very good units in my opinion.
Hey man, i have this from like a month i would say and its pretty cool what you get from the money. It may not be a tube amp and if you wanna hear the difference you will, but its great when you know you have a show and you know it me be a waste of time and effort to bring a head+cab, its great. Im using it with a cheap amp direct to input on a clean channel and it works great! I also have a power amp from hotone that in theory its 50 watts but... not the same, i rather use a chep amp instead, maybe with a seymour duncan power stage it will sound great but i cannot find one in my country.
try a Blackstar Amped 1 or Quilter Toneblock 202, both of those sound better than the SD in my personal opinion
@@belligerentamateur thanks! I will check that out
Hey Kyle. Do you have any recommendations to sell mint condition guitar effects pedal, apart from Facebook Marketplace, Craigs list, and Reverb? Thanks.
So it seems I'm a "loser" that ventured into your cool territory. It seems I was in the wrong place. All the best! x
Lmao that intro was funny!
The creepier the better lol
Fractal units do have the "create an amp" function if you dig deep enough. I basically made my own preset that has the 5150 III preamp and a Mark IV power section along with the 5 band eq. It sounds unique and more like my own thing instead of cookie cutter tones. But Fractal isn't a plug n play type of modeler like others. There are some deep rabbit holes. You have to save often or you might not dig back out.
the ampero 1 could easily be overloaded , It would be nice to know how much /many effects it could take before it lags
Impressive for the price tag. btw, what pickups are in that LTD guitar?
stock Dissonant Aggressors
Very cool! I'd be thinking about this thing if I didnt already have the Tonex pedal.
Loved hearing some Leeway riffs in there. Mark of the Squealer!!!
I have an Ampero MP100 and find it very feature rich, great sounds, simple to use. To me...the Stage II is more than I see myself needing at this time. I definitely dig it though.
Leeway 4lyfe RIP Eddie
@@belligerentamateur the man fought hard. RIP Eddie
Every time you bring out that guitar is a joy for me hahaha It looks and sounds great! And man....I think I may pull the trigger on the Hotone honestly. For its price, it seems to compete with the top dollar big boys.
it really is a killer unit with some great functionality
@@belligerentamateur Have you noticed any latency when switching scenes? Like, let say, going from a clean to a high gain channel?
Always cool to see what the latest modelers are capable of... but I can't ever see myself going down that rabbit hole of endless features and options. Feels like it would be a nightmare of indecisiveness
Does anyone know the model of the guitar he is using here?
LTD BK-600 Bill Kelliher Signature model
@@belligerentamateur Thanks.
Did you try using the models of the preamps, instead of just the amp models? You're doubling up on the flavor of the poweramp section by running the full amp model into an amp's power section. You should try it,... it should sound better
Hey Kyle love your stuff!!!! how do i run my Ampero ii through my effects loop on my Marshall Silver jubilee? just cables from the send and return on the Ampero too the send return of the amp? and just use the pre amp models in the Ampero? thanks for any help
whatever out you are using on the ampero is what you will run into the effects return of the jubilee
@@belligerentamateur thanks brother keep rocking and putting out killer content
Definitely want but don’t need this. The Pulze is probably closer to what would be useful for sitting at home and practicing late at night without waking the kids. Love the vids, man. Wish I could show up to your gear swap meet stuff.
The aonicake Matribox II is a great at home jammer that does similar thinga for a lot less if you dont need all the other features
@@belligerentamateur honestly what would be perfect is the equivalent of my katana go but has its own speakers so I don’t have to plug it into my computer speakers (I don’t have studio monitors in my office… yet) for when I don’t want to play in headphones.
That’s why the Pulze is attractive to those aims.
Also what I want but don’t need is to replace my old peavey ultra 60 that I had in high school.
Please tell me you use earplugs with all those amps. At my age I notice alllll the concerts I’ve been to (including atomic punks before they were steel panther, which left my ears ringing for two days) where I have gotten hearing damage.
Apologies for rambling - keep up the good work.
Im sticking with my MooerGE300Lite as my modeler. Its even cheaper than this one and it can load reformatted kemper profiles.
I have the GE250 and i love it. Im eventually going to get the QC, but GE250 is definitely super great until then 🔥
Off topic: this is a sick guitar. Which LTD model is this one , in this specific color?
Is it the ESP LTD BILL KELLIHER BK-600 ELECTRIC GUITAR IN MILITARY GREEN BURST S?
thats the one!
@@belligerentamateurwicked!
never thought about using the preamp and power amp modules instead of just the straight amp, I was disappointed the 5150 had no resonance control.
great modeler, always loved your gear reviews. i hope you can check out the valeton GP 200/200LT...thanks
Pssst... Hotone just released the Ampero II floorboard... and it has AMP & Pedal CAPTURING BUILT IN!!!! I think they plan to add that to the stage in a future firmware update too! BRO, you gotta let me know when that firmware update drops cause... I think this will KILL the Headrush Prime/Core. It's like, $200 cheaper for way more updated sounds and software. Plus I'd like to hear your take on this vs the quad cortex. Also also... Couild you capture some NDSP plugins just for funsies in the demo? lol
This unit comes alive with 3d Party IRs like ML Soundlab, Celestion or Ownhammer etc.!
especially when you go to high resolution mode. Its worth skimping on other effects if youre outta dsp.
Theft freaking awesome, like to know the other effects, does it have delays and such.
Yes, all of these modeler units have effects, I just choose not to demo them most of the time because people come to my channel for tones
@@belligerentamateur 10-4, thanks for the response
Dude.......I'm STILL laughing while I'm typing this! HAHA! Love your channel! NEVER CHANGE!! Cheers!
Hotone or hot one ?
I had an epiphany just yesterday. Maybe if you’re just that person who absolutely won’t budge on brand “It’s on the Marshal (or whatever amp) setting and comes close but not exactly like a Marshal “ might mean something . But I don’t think it’s ever going to be exact because it may simulate a certain amp but it’s still running through your amp, you DAW, or whatever your system. So maybe for the rest of us it’s just another way to change things up like switching from bridge to neck pickup, changing guitars, using a single coil for this and a humbucker for that. I used to listen to everyone who says “It’s not exact” and therefore I wasn’t interested. But reconsidering that train of thought.
Nooooooooooo!!! They got to you. (insert dramatic arm flailing). 😁
damn that's actually a really great pedal! didn't sound fake/digital at all
i would of loved to hear the 5150 preamp mode in the hotone a/b with the 5150s real preamp!
Best hotone review for high gain... sound pretty good and nice
thank you my man! genuinely appreciate that
I have the Nux mg30 very similar...NICE!
Fucking brutal shit mate, love it
18:00 you should add a aby pedal for that dual rig thing
Hotone is siiiick
Sounds really good, I wish it had capturing capabilities as well though.
me too, that would put it at the top of my under $1k modeler list for sure
Can someone explain me how to connect this one to my boss katana combo amp?! I am a stupid beginner trying to improve my lame guitar tone 😅
ampero stage out to katan effects return 💪
@@belligerentamateur thank you so much Kyle!
Both guitar players plugging into that thing brings them so much closer together I bet. 😂
Sounds killer
A cool unit with some good sounds, but I feel like your comparison against the HX Stomp is a bit unfair. The Stomp has all the same I/0 and major features. It just doesn't have as many footswitches because of the size (duh), but you can easily add a footswitch or midi controller.
The only real knock on the Stomp is less DSP, and I'm not sure how much of a difference that is based on this video. On my Stomp, I can do 2 chains that feature two different amps. Just not enough DSP to include two cabs. Helix gives you a lot more granular over the cab settings as well.
One thing that makes me prefer Line6 is their level of support. The Helix line has been around a long time, and the amount of amps, features, and effects they've added over the years is crazy. It remains to be seen how long Hotone and some of these other budget modelers actually support them and how significantly they evolve as the years go by.
I’m using a boss GX100 with a laney LFR 112 ,,, man that speaker is super loud
Still sounds digitally compressed, real deal is always first place here, but yeah cant deny it's getting better...
you would be suprised how such modeler sounds thru a mesa halfback cab ;)
Can you have me on this show to MUMBLE RAP for your audience?
So much for not so much 🤘
agreed!
Shit. I really thought I had my rig all figured out.
Holy hell that thing is badass. Just went to the top of the list. WAY cheaper than that Zuta amp I'm watching on Reverb.
Love your LTD too, dude, sweet axe.
I love both tube amps and modelers. Tube amps are a pain in the ass to maintain and require expensive tools to fix bad tubes or an expensive amp tech. That to me is the major downside of tube amps.
Great demo. I'm really considering this unit now
Modelers get better every year.
Kyle U should open up a live chat room? Very Good Congratulations 🎉👏.....❤️🩹⚖️✅
Bro... that thing is sic. Definitely gonna pick one up. It just looks like it would be hours of fun. And sounds insane.
Kile F
Did you sell cars b4 that job? Whatever they paid you, ask 4 double!
"Let's get out of loser territory!" ??!! Man, I love you! Yeah, nah, I mean it!
Stop having such great intros. I’m starting to come here for the intros and not demos haha
Long time subscriber, who likes your channel in spite of the, "if you like guys like bla bla" branding... but this thing sounds no better than my old L6 'Kidney Bean' POD in a dorm. YOU KNOW THIS, hence your amps of choice. Love ya, but if you 'reached out' to HOTONE because you 'loved' the sound, then I'm a rocket scientist, who parties with aliens.
@@kennethc2466 what are the aliens like?
Lol great intro
It's incredible what the Chinese are doing today. Not only do they make good copies, but they are also capable of outright surpassing Western companies.
Even in Germany with the Harley Benton brand, it's completely crazy.
I still remember when I started at 17 or 18 years old; if you wanted quality, you had to pay a certain minimum price. There was no choice; it was just how it was, and it was the beginning of modeling.
Now, there are Harley Bentons that offer fierce competition at very low prices and are more than sufficient for most players, including their tube amps. Not to mention all the cabinets with quality speakers that are similarly priced very attractively and are sufficient for most people.
I also think of the company Positive Grid, which produces exceptional sounds in their amps.
We are living in a pretty incredible era for guitars.
Man, the sound guys are seriously going to beat the S H I T out of you if you even go near their fuckin live stage with an amp........
i play live with 100 watt amps all the time. have only had a handful of run ins with a sound guy in 20 years of live playing. Depends on how you handle the situation
Dang Kyle is broken. 😂😂Cyborg doing a demo of another digital device. Meh. I always hear that digital fizz with that stuff.
Thee sick. 😂
I love amp modelers as they are very flexible and can give you most of the main character tone of the amps, but when you put it against real amps there's allways that cocked Wah soud and lack of sparkle in the highs, it's like comparing a photo with a real moving image, and of course the feel of playing a real tube amp is also much better and keeps you playing for way longer.
You really need to try out the Fractal stuff mate.
To all the snobs:
You guys are doing nothing but demonstrating your ignorance when you crap on modelers because they don't sound like the real thing in the room.
They are modeling miked up amp tones, never meant to sound anything like the real thing in the room in the first place, and yall don't know even this simple fact.
We are all laughing at yall and we had been all along. lol
But if you are one of these guys that learned this simple fact and changed your opinion on modelers and their users, welcome aboard
Weak nerd tones:))) funny! ….. And into caveman, stone tool using territory:) sounds great for a computer! Good job/ fun channel!