An important note is that Pocket Pair had been very publicly creating Palworld over the course of the last 4 years. Both of them being in japan and the fact that Nintendo is the most strict in protecting it's IP's. Means that, despite the fact many of the twitter, reddit and youtube activists voicing and claiming fraud, copyright infringement or theft, think nintendo don't know. There's basically 0 chance they didn't. They probably knew about it before most of us, there's a large team of people at nintendo just searching for things to shut down. Nintendo shut down a Pokemon MOD for Palworld, in less than 2 days. You really think that over 4 year's of public development, trailer's, teaser's and pictures that Nintendo wouldn't shut down Palworld? C'mon. Edit: It's worth noting that given all the technique's, and advancements in the industry. Making a game is easier now than it has EVER been. For Indie's at least. And the logistics of it are a bit complicated but, there's thousands of tutorials out there. And you can have a computer generate terrain for you, and here's the thing, it's not AI, we've been doing it for decades. You input a simple repeating command line for the placement of trees a certain distance apart from eachother, randomly, in a certain area. That saves HOURS of time. And things like this are EVERYWHERE in the industry. And the BEST part about being Indie is that no one expect you to make a AAA game with cutting edge graphics, advanced game systems and thousands of hours of depth. They just expect it to function and be fun. So you can cut corner's and focus on things that are more important. AAA studios can't do that and that's why they're mad, game development CAN be easy, they just never expect an indie studio to actually out perform them.
another perspective is that Nintendo did not bother Palworld, until well, until they blew up. Better try to make buck from a rich company rather than stomping on a budding company. But I agree, that big N will have no case against Palworld. The only thing that really links both together is the Pal Sphere aka Pokeball, everything else is original/common enough for a pass.
@@xygdra concept wise who cares, but seriously you cannot sit there and tell me that many of the Pals designs are just basic OC recolors of existing pokemon from model and art style alone. Theres a reason nobody cared with Digimon or Yokai Watch or DQ Monsters because while the idea of monster catching is similar at least the monsters are different enough in artistic style and design alone. (Which is bothering when people bring up the Dragon Quest V monsters vs Pokemon Gen I because the designs werent blatant recolors just reimagined looks of the same idea)
Without the source code of PalWorld, Nintendo would be hard pressed to prove the theft it's the only reason we haven't seen action taken yet. But yeah keep wildly speculating like you know! That works too!
he was originally a game designer for nintendo, then riot, then became the director for TFT, quick google search can answer many questions @@jamesprice371
I think he forgot to mention that Palworld doesn't just take like 60% of Pokemon or something, but has ideas from Pokemon, Souls games, Ark, BOTW/TOTK, and probably more I'm not thinking of, like for the base management systems. So it's less of a reskin and repackage, but more of a whole new idea. It's mixed together well.
this 100% ...more like dude without idea what he wants from game but sees lot of cool sht all around and wants to combile them to one working package....if people would go same route that "nintendo fanboys" do against everything that dosnt carry pokemons name....pokemon wouldnt exist....i mean whole frikin idea of pokemon is basicly taken from dragon quest and digimon....most 1gen pokemons go pretty much 1:1 with dragon quest and that capture mechanic is pretty much just fleshed out digimon(the handheld battle thing u had as kid that scanned bar codes behind items on store for "better monsters")
I think it would also be an interesting analogy with a chef, they can also make a dish inspired by a bunch of ingredients in an existing dish, but they will still add their own flavour/flourish and garnish.
I recall saying “I’d love to be able to do this” in video games I’ve played, but developers have a vision for their games which doesn’t allow for it. Palworld offers that “all-in-one” experience.
Even my modded Skyrim has linked crafting, it's just a crime not to include it in any open world base building simulator in the 2020's. Hell, even vanilla Fallout 4 has linked storage. You can even access things from other remote settlements with the right perks!
People are forgetting that game designers and devs are almost assuredly all gamers. They play this shit and then make their own games. You sure as shit know they talk about minimaos vs composes and mention Witcher and Skyrim and plan and how they want navigation to work in their game. They played FromSoft games and soulslikes or Monster Hunter and have a firm understanding of 3rd person action games s parry, mechanics and decide if they want something similar in their game, that decision changed how much of an action game it is. PalWorld doesn’t have too many original ideas but the devs slapped together a thing that took all these memes (ideas not viral internet images) and made it how they want. This guy in the video makes a bold claim and provides zero evidence aside from Craftioia had a cliff vista that looks kinda like Breath of the Wilds intro scene? No overlaying the images or anything further than “hey since I think they stole assets from BotW because it kinda looks the sameish, they for PalWorld they probably stole a bunch of other shit that won’t name and did minimal touch up or mashing up of stolen shit? Like Asmond said, player want QoL stuff they want cool mechanics that have become common elements in games like fast travel, a quick stack to chest option, sorting, an roll dodge, mounts and other movement progression (hello Terraria and Calamity mod movement progression 😉). It’s derivative like the fighting games that followed Street Fighter 2, what a weird take for this guy to completely 180 with no evidence other than a gut feeling. A real nothing burger accusation and take.
The movement in Palworld is a massive win to me. It’s so satisfying deploying the eagle to glide, quickly transitioning to flight on another Pal, satisfying dodge moves and the freedom to toss Pal Spheres from just about any position. Just think what this game can become if they continue to shower it with the love it most definitely deserves for the satisfaction it’s already provided during early access. I wish the devs and their AI all the best of luck in this games development after a long line of recent flops from other devs in the industry.
I dont think Palworld is a legitimate game, in sense i feel its a short lived hype game, its made out of memes and multiple things that are detached completely between each other, its complete chaos, its random, and the memes goes hard on it, and thats what current teens really love, it can generates a lot of dark humor...etc im not really interested in such games, i cant play a survival + pokemon with slavery + Fortnite drawing all in one...
Mortal Kombat didnt use "motion capture suits" originally for most of their early released 2D fighters. they recorded actual video of people doing fighting moves in costumes and just used the photos as frames in the game.
This is correct. I remember watching a Behind The Scenes movie of making Mortal Kombat, and they had the martial artists in costume perform the moves. This was some really ahead of its time stuff, which is why I think Mortal Kombat was so awesome back in the SNES days. But once graphics caught up, it just didn't really innovate in terms of mechanics and just kind of became less relevant as other franchises did cooler stuff--namely Guilty Gear, Tekken, Mahvel vs. Capcom, and SF is still the OG and going strong.
@@Ilyak1986 Yup exactly! Mortal Kombat is credited for first game to copy a live actors movements and convert it directly into digital form... Not the first game to use motion capture suits. But technically it wasn't the first to do that either. Vixen 1988 did something similar before that, but it looks like shit so no one cares. I've tried looking up what game is the first to actually use Motion Capture suits and I havent been able to find any info.
@@BVaccaro88 Asmon's comment and the quote was " motion capture suits" the specifics matter. Motion capture suits, and motion capture are not the same thing. MK was the first game to be widely credited for using motion capture, not motion capture suits. The workflow for using the suits is much more extensive as it requires the data to be digitally transfered to a rig that generally is used for 3d models. MK didnt do that. They recorded video and most likely downressed frames from the video to low quality flat images.
To be fair, it is an interesting question when a game breaks the mainstream and subjects itself to question of artistic creativity. I have no stake in it but the content is fun for me regardless
That is literally the issue with everyone that has it good RN. Cry and bich about every little thing, no matter how pointless, meanwhile people get bombed to death and starve in other places.. smh@@vinkizik
I think one of the stranger complaints about asset reuse I remember was the fact that the blood splatters from Dark Souls 3 were the same as Bloodborne. I remember quite a few people were really upset about it, and I remember thinking "there are only so many ways to make blood splatters. It's an asset that stays in the background, I don't think it's a huge problem" Taking years to give us plumes on helmets, now THAT was a problem
I am 99% certain they are not the same at all, Bloodborne's blood splatters are quite large and over exaggerated, the ones in DS3 are small, ugly and brown lol. I honestly don't think I've ever heard anyone say the blood in those two games are similar.
I dont think anyone with sanity actually cares if the same developers reuse their own assets. It's when developers copy someone else's assets is when it becomes a problem.
@@EmiliaJohanssonnn Nah as someone who plays both religiously, they're exactly the same, down to the color. Only reason they look different is the lighting of the two games.
Every game today is a ripoff of some old game.. Its almost impossible to make something new. Open world, crafting, fighting, shooting, digging, building, and so on have all been done. Hell, Pokemon is a rip off of real animals.
@@Dianbler Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth has more content to justify their 70$. NG+ is irrelevant for 99% of the players that are gonna play it. The people complaining don't even buy nor play the game. Please stay in your lane.
You missed the point entirely. He's clearly talking about Breath of the Wild. Basically the accusation is he they reskinned a game they didnt own and then add pokipals.
16:30 I totally remember when Mist of Pandaria came out and by those times like 1 of every 3 mobile games on the Play Store would have a smirking/cool panda face icon with green acents and they all looked like clones to each other.
That philosophy is why he blew up so much on UA-cam. He never copyright striked people using his content so he spread and then he hired the top clippers as his editors.
This just shows you don't understand the difference between a concept and actual code. Don't worry Asmongold can't figure this out either apparently. Sure you can steal the idea just don't steal All the code that went into implementing the idea that's the difficult part...
The shortcut thing is super legit. Baldur's Gate 3 is a masterpiece because they took the "shortcuts" in so many areas that they could focus entirely on the things that delivered an unprecedented RPG experience. They had an engine from DoS, their systems design is the actual 5th edition ruleset with some very minor tweaks, and they had the foundational IP of the forgotten realms to write within. I don't think you could make a game to the same level of quality without that starting position, literal years of development saved.
People tend to mistake taking shortcuts as to mean cutting corners, when it's about reaching the desired result while cutting out the needless steps. Recognizing when you already have a chunk of the work done saves you the trouble of starting from scratch, much like building something from a set of LEGOs.
Part of the reason the Warcraft movie was such a let down in my opinion. You had years and years of lore, character design, and world already there on a silver platter, not to mention a massive fan base already during that time. All they had to do was focus on the production side but somehow it just ended up not being very good.
If only Pokemon actually did this Palworld wouldn't have popped off as hard. Pokemon did ALL the shortcuts but never focused on improving the experience 🤣
The problem with the copy/paste aspects is the likelihood that those studios will still want to have a dedicated team to address issues with those systems as they arise is much lower, and kind of the goal right? To not pay people for work and to pocket as much as possible. So when those systems start breaking, you're gonna see long stretches of time where things stay broken, because they few team members they have didn't build it themselves and so it makes it harder to fix.
I think that is a huge logic leap, and it doesn't add up, Pokémons don't use weapons, you can't fight them with your fists, it's not a survival/construction game, it doesn't use the same engine.
What he doesn't mention is that the devs of Palworld didn't just take the whole stack from 1 game. They took multiple pieces from multiple games, and making them fit together isn't an easy job, especially when you have different genres
Even if they did take it from one game, so what? They ultimately made something fun in the end. Asset flips get a bad rep because they’re used by a lot of scammers and people without talent. But if you asset a whole game, pay for the assets and make something fun… then good. That’s a good thing. At the end of the day, dude is just gate keeping because these indie devs are a threat to AAA devs.
yeah the video almost seemed to imply the stole, or copy pasted the "stack". but he also says recreating botw from scratch would be impressive, so which is it? it's kind of confusing to me, palworld just integrates a bunch of mechanics the devs enjoy from other games. but they made the features themselves, there's no evidence of thievery.
Pokemon uses turn based combat and Palworld does action combat. How can the AI, Behaviors, and Engine be copied? I honestly can't believe no one has pointed out that Palworld is basically just Modded Ark Pokemon.
Yep the game is way more ARK than pokemon, especially with the towers and how ARK also has the same types of towers with bosses inside them. The only thing pulled from pokemon really is the capturing aspect + monster design and even then its just influenced heavily but not copied.
that last thing you said. about setting a standard. so basically palworld is the equal but opposite of baldurs gate 3, for bg devs complained about setting the standard for effort too high and for palworld too low.
@@jh23rangers71 The Game can be enjoyable and have solid gameplay and is better than triple a games, but have a shady background to it. I am not saying it does, but don't kid yourself that a fun game can't be easy to make, reskin with some slight changes and then better stuff added on top. The shadiness is that 75-85% that he showed, being straight converted over or copied, rather than only 45% or under, which then sets the bar of development too low. Baldur's Gate 3 on the other hand, was seen as too much because of the sheer amount of choice and interactions available in the game and scale/scope of the whole thing, making the bar for development too high. Now, do I agree with this? not really, although what I do think is it'd wrong for bigger, more well known studios to do a 'Palworld' and for smaller, less well known studios(like indies for example) to do a 'Baldur's Gate 3'. Like imo, I feel what he described is passable for a new, unknown developer/studio, but once they are known, they should move their bar of development higher, and raise their standards of development, if they did do what Mort said that is.
He forgot to mention that Palworld used UE5. Craftopia used Unity. Zelda used Nintendo Engine. Pokemon used Gamefreak Engine. So there are no copy-paste here. They have to build from ground-up on UE5, which Mort said is okay to do as long as there are no copy-paste.
@@KeytarArgonian I tried so hard to write every line of code by myself, I never use AI to generate some codes for me (they weren't that useful since most thing I searched for is way beyond their docs). However, the day that all search engine exists gone at the same time would be the day that I give up calling myself anything close to a developers LOL.
This guy has been in game dev for 19 years. How does he not know this? I wish he would elaborate on the copy paste. Like they copy by rewriting it? I don't understand why the game dev thinks they somehow had the code. Honestly the game system looks way more like ark. But even then, did they pay for the code or hack the code to copy it. If they hacked it, obviously they will be sued, else, I don't really see the problem with palworld
@@JoshuaPack He does know he just didn't state it. Just because someone didn't state something super obvious in the video does not mean he doesn't know it
One huge difference between Pals and Pokémon is that Pals don’t evolve. In my opinion I have a huge problem with the idea that Nintendo/Pokémon act like they have a monopoly on cutsie vaguely anime animals. Things like Magicarp, Mareep, Rattata, etc. are literally just fuckin real animals that are slightly cartooned. Iterating noticeably on that design is almost impossible if you don’t want to make some really weird specially made take on a fish, sheep or rat. Now the second I see a clip of someone catching a Pal that looks like MewTwo, Alakazam, or Jynx I’ll start to cast some judgement.
they did use some obvious ones like the eevee, mantini and goodra clones. they should've tweaked these designs harder than just doing pokemon fusions like the online creator. the more original designs are far better, they should've stayed there. fanmade pokemon look less like existing pokemon than most palworld creatures.
its really funny to me that the reality of palworld vs pokemon is actually that Gamefreak Devs and Employees openly tweeted on the release week that they enjoy playing it and are happy it came out and also addressed that they got several notifications send towards their PR department and Lawyers, and asked to stop it since there's nothing to investigate. Sadly the tweets are japanese and thus not really used in the western media. But ye.. its funny to me :3 GF likes the game an the designs and enjoys the competition openly, atleast some of their Devs and Partners. @@juuchanIRL
Even when people think about their ideal game, it's very common to see people saying "the ideal game would be this game X, but with systems from game Y, art from game Z, etc."
Motion Capture suits are not cheaper to use in general. They are cheaper to use for producing the same quality of result. Motion Capture has its own hurdles, especially because the end results are super dense data blobs which you then still have to cleanup and use and you also have to somehow trim down a bit because dense data == more storage. Not to mention you also have to account for other things in the overall sequence, like animation of props(you can't have realistic motion on humans but non realistic low "res" animation in everything else in a realistic game). It's not a cheat code. On the other hand, to get this level of quality in motions(and especially secondary motions which give a feel of natural motion) by hand authored animation, you need a lot of people with very good if not top notch skills and a lot of time.
Pfft you think games care about storage space? Then why is every AA or AAA game 40-60-80-100-120-140 GB? I remember games used to be 8. 20 GB at the most. Hell, some GameCube games were in Mb. No major studio cares about how much storage their game takes, that's why COD Modern warfare is over 100 GB for so little actual content. In their mind you can just go buy more storage space.
@@Kratos-eg7ez They do, because their source assets are in TBs. If they didn't care, you'd be buying storage units not storage drives. The point is to pick your battles. Unfortunately if you want great visual fidelity, you can't skimp out on textures. And the more you blow up your data the less easy it is to handle them all in runtime. You can have a lot of space on disk, you can't have a lot of space in memory and cache. Which is why they care a lot about how much everything is, otherwise it'd be impossible to make anything work with resource streaming. On the other hand, if you have a game that can last you 500h of exploration and spans a great deal of space, then it's obviously not easy to compress a lot, especially if you target great visual fidelity. And games that used to be 8GB had nowhere near the graphics we see today or the content. If you don't care about that, fine, but it's very expected.
@@vasili1207 I never mentioned MK or old tech like that. I’m talking about mocap suits, be it using reflective markers or inertial sensors and what else have you. As for MK I’d venture a guess they also had to go through some hoops due to memory issues thinking about the types of consoles and arcades that existed back then with their finite memory and space.
Craftopia their previous game did not use to be open world, they had templates for several biome types (islands) and portals to travel between the dimensions. Craftopia also had "Pal" capture from the get go, so Palworld is more or less just the refined result on the work on Craftopia. The Glider design in Palworld is just a copy of the glider in Craftopia before the glider in Craftopia was redesigned.
incorrect, craftopia was at first islands, then it was reworked to open world, 95% of craftopia systems are literally copy pasted, they literally only upgraded graphics and changed assets, everything is literally the same. It's like when Ark changed assets and made atlas
@@patodonald4902 Automation is fundamentaly different, and while you could capture creatures and humans in Craftopia they only really worked in machines (and that was jank as fuck, far worse than palworld). They added a pet system later on but very much refined it in Palworld. Gunplay was complete ass and improved significantly, the gearing and crafting system is entirely different. They have been very vocal over the years about craftopia being their test project for what would eventually become Palworld, that's why Craftopia went into hiatus for years once they started working on Palworld.
@@patodonald4902 craftopia actually has more focus on combat and combat systems such as classes , skill trees , skills and more weapom types. It actually is more my cup of tea than pal world but they didnt have the familiar thing for people to latch on to (pokemon). So palworld is a smart move on their part.
The irony of the lead dev on a auto chess clone, who formerly worked on a dota clone, calling out this type of behavior is not lost on me. Palworld is a lot less like Pokemon than the former two games I've mention are to their cloned games. Honestly, even some of the pal vs pokemon comparisons circulating online are reaches at the best of time. There is a reason Nintendo hasn't made a legal case against PalWorld, and thats because they know, the arguments and examples people make online would not hold up in a court of law.
exactly, he maybe should take a look at dota underlords & dota auto chess which came way before tft and they "copied" alot from them for their "new" game
The dev is not saying it’s illegal. He actually implies that it’s not illegal by acknowledging how common it is especially in mobile games. But he is saying that it can be dangerous for the future of game design. Because if the people that are copy or even just look like they’re copying are getting rewarded then more will try to do the same. Which may lead to a world where companies that did the initial work my stop doing it because it costs more than it’s worth.
The irony is despite the strong elements that it definitely uses from both Pokemon and BoTW it plays nothing like either of them. Whereas League plays exactly like DOTA, just easier and faster. And the auto chess clone is even worse in terms of changing very little of the formula.
Just because Nitendo can't sue them doesn't mean they're not 'reskinning' parts in their games. Not to say they did, innocent until proven guilty, but, there are ways to get around things. An obvious example of this is Apple and their 'updated policies' for Europe ( be it the charging cord or the apple store changes ). It could be because they copied the system from many games that Nitendo can't make a case about but again, just because it's legal doesn't mean it's good.
I think the thing that the dev doesn't quite adress is that palworld didn't just "yoink" all the groundwork from pokemon. Palworld is not using the same engine, it's not using the same level art (I mean there are probably more polygons in a single frame of palworld than there are in all of scarlet/violet), it's not using the same level design, it's not using the same characters although this is probably the first point where we can see some major inspirations, Behaviors are different, Enemy AI is different... Basically everything is different, except the conceptual world of "pokemon". Palworld went "what if we took the core concept of pokemon and we took out the arbitrary moral rules and made it more like a sandbox game where you're free to do whatever the fuck you want". And then they went and they made all of that essentially from scratch. Even if some of the designs are similar they still made the new designs. "Pokemon has a yellow mouse so we need a yellow mouse" and then they MADE a yellow mouse.
@@islamsalimzhanov4399to be precise and to the point of OP, gamefreak owns the idea of Pikachu, who is a yellow mouse (with specific red spots here and specific black mark here, and is specifically named pikachu), but gamefreak does not own the idea of a yellow mouse.
@@talkingtakotaco8611after some thoughts yeah i agree with you. I coud also add that the names itself also under intelectual property like you can't use pikachu and some others(not all, i think there is list of them). My idea was that if palwords tryed to copy(even in legal way) maskots as pikachu, nintendo would be much agressive.
I think I understand his point, while there's a silver-lining to all of it and that shifts depending on the person. He's for innovation and efficient re-use of your own work to produce more good product, in contrast to people using other's work, incentivising those that created to not create but do the same, becoming the standard practice. Albeit, his fear of the consequences of that is similar to the extreme of the other, where companies will re-use almost every asset and push clones. At least that's my view of the matter.
@@LuxiBelle I think engine really isn't worth mentioning as besides various triple A specific engines, people just almost always use Unity or Unreal (with some exceptions, especially on older styles of games). I'm not even sure why the dev here mentioned they could have used the same engine as I don't believe Nintendo let's people do that unless they also just use a public engine which I highly doubt.
@@DigiDawg2 I absolutely loved BoTW and was actually kinda let down by TotK a bit. I expected Nintendo to fix a lot of the story complications and make it more replayable, after breaking through the honeymoon phase, it just isn’t as replayable in my mind. Especially without any master mode, trials, or similarly fun DLC.
At what point has everything been done already? They took some of the best ideas across a few different franchises and made their own thing. Having sunk a ton of hours into palworld, it reminds me of Conan Exiles and Ark more than anything. Its a breathe of fresh air.
100% palworld is much closer in resemblance to ark than any Pokémon game (I've not played Conan so I can't compare them). Digimon is still the closest thing I've seen in resemblance to Pokémon and as far as I know, they have never battled it out in court and they both co-exist just fine. I hope this is the last asmond video on the matter because there's nothing left to say to convince the 0.0001% who are throwing a tantrum.
@@jBiz91 Digimon is in no way derived from Pokémon. Thats why theres no case to be made at all. Pokémon doesnt invent monster taming. You can actually argue Pokemon could get more heat from dragon quest for their Gen 1s. To put it simply, Pokemon is about capturing slaves while Digimon is about raising a friend.
I dunno about 80%, besides the engrams and boss towers I find it hard to see other comparisons in regards to ARK. Without dino taming Ark would just be another generic survival game. I see a lot of Fortnite in some of the character deign and animations though.
And that took inspiration from Minecraft which stole the whole concept from another game which was probably inspired by something else. Nobody has a 100% original idea.
@@trialzeez8742 The entire technology tree and player stat point gain on level up are highly reminiscent of Ark. Saddle crafting for pals and needing to feed them is just like dino taming in Ark. Egg Hatching is just a more refined version of Ark's janky egg hatching system. Even the way progression is handled in the tech trees is *very* similar to the progression layout in Ark.
How long did it take for them to become third person "sandbox open world". I remember playing digimon cyber sleuth way before pokemon drop the top down view.
the funny this is even Digimon carried its success over from a super viral pocket toy that at that time was revolutionary, it was a little egg, it had a creature in the egg, and if you were able to nurture this egg and help it survive it would hatch, it was the Tamagotchi. The tiny pocket creature started there to my knowledge.
and the anime came out at around the same time. it couldnt copy pokemon bevause of the development time (it was also very different in execution) the name dragged it down though.
Every Digimon game, except maybe DW1, is based on the idea of another game not owned by Bandai. And that's coming from some who likes Digimon more than Pokemon, despite the Banette in my profile pic. Now some of the games vary a bit on how much they change things up from what they were based on, like the Rumble Arena games, and then others were a bit more similar, like DW4 vs. PSO. As for Digimon itself, it was at least developed by the same company that made the Tamagotchi, as an alternative virtual pet for boys. And despite the claims of avid Pokemon fans, Akihiro Yokoi the father of Tamagotchi's and thus Digimon, came up with the idea of Tamagotchi's in 1995, with out any knowledge of Pokemon being in development. Pokemon just released their first games to the public before the Tamagotchi was ready for release.
The crux of being a software developer (which I have been for over 20 years) is not doing something that someone has already done, usually through looking up online templates and incorporating it into your work. It's also important to note that developers post these templates online in order to make this process easier for those that follow. I don't really see a substantial difference here, with the major upsides being the same - the less time you spend recreating the wheel, the more time you have to be innovative and create new pieces that achieve something not seen before (and then template it for others to use)
Yeah, that doesn't really work if the code wasn't intended to be openly shared for re-use though. If I spend a year writing a complicated piece of software to sell as a product, I don't want someone else coming in, hitting crl+c, ctl+v, changing the app name and then selling it as their own at half price out from under me. Now apply the same logic to games & game assets.
@@fabcastel4035 If you use others' assets without permission, it's illegal and is basically theft. However, I don't understand why this logic should be applied given that there is no proof the game in question actually did it. If it did, then yeah they should be punished. Do we have any evidence they did?
@@oliverman6168 yeah no. Palworld is taking 3 different genres and blending it together successfully. it used assets, yes. It tried to emulate certain things about other games *just* differently enough to not be copy and paste but the blending of the genres is what makes the game good and it is what the devs are being rewarded for doing. No one would pay attention to palworld if it was a straight up clone or cover song. it does something that genuinely has not been done before. it does so, so much better than the lead developer in the genre (creature catcher) has done. it genuinely has put in more effort and creativity than gamefreak has done in the last 20 years combined. If it is a cover song, it is one that is better than the original.
@andreyh2944 The issue I see here is people arguing in favor of this being done, whether Palworld actually did it or not. They're saying it wasn't done but if it was that would be good too...
Yeah the game was fun already but the company making it emotionally hurt terminally online people every time I play it is just that cherry on top that completes the perfect bite.
I'm fairly certain Asmongold just says it sarcastically, that because X is used in a game, X can't be in any other game following. (worldtree in elden ring, birds in pokemon, etc.)
Tell me it would still be there without recent "big tree background" games like valheim and elden ring though? It's whatever, who cares, but palworld IS a Frankenstein copy/paste 😂.
This applies to music production too, taking shortcuts like they are talking about. You can save templates and every time you load a new project you can have certain instruments and auxiliary channels preloaded with your plug-ins. Hell the song is pretty much already mixed. If you use some of the same sounds and all of your songs. Saves a ton of time.
you basically described most pop music happening right now. especially in kpop. you can literally tell who produced a song because of a signature "sound" they produce.
I think Palword get together many mechanics that we have been asking for in may games, because make do things with the same resources that make improve and level up in the game. Your base is a real base not just a house that you put decorative things inside, big games developer are mad because Palworld is a such good game lol
@@RobotronSage Like he said in the video using concepts and ideas is fine (as long as you build the game yourself). But copying actual code, models, skins, cut scenes etc. is a slippery slope to reward IF (big if) that has happened.
Ironic, that he brings up reskins, but when talking about TFT, it's somehow not mentioned at all and he talks about it like he and his team came up with everything by themselves. League as a whole is a reskin of the WC3's DotA and TFT itself is pretty much just a reskin of AutoChess. But I guess it's simply: "Rules for thee but not for me." when it comes to taking stuff from other developers.
He did mention it tho. And what you're comparing it to is people making a game off of a concept not copy pasting it , neither league or tft were a 1 to 1 copy of the original Edit: a lot of people replied saying stuff about palword so let me clear it up idgaf about the game nor was i comparing tft and league to it
@@ahabb9294he has 0 evidence to claim palworld copies anything more than his team copied auto chess other than his feelings. Despite the fact you could make the exact same argument for auto chess.
@@ahabb9294 The biggest evidence that people can bring up against palworld is individual creature bodyparts when designing monsters to be cute/cool/memorable generally involves some common tropes such as big eyes or a stylized art style. I'd be more on board with them if they claimed its an Arc Survival evolved rip off than a pokemon clone.
It's probably in his employment contract that he's not allowed to mention Autochess publicly. Riot is a cult. They literally used to ask potential employees what they thought of Richard Lewis as an interview question and if you said he was a good journalist Riot would not hire you. They are INSANE.
@@ahabb9294 So Palworld somehow copy pasted the whole game but RIOT didn't? Where's the difference here because I don't see it. Is it the fact that RIOT had to code the game before basically copying the core gameplay idea of DotA/AutoChess/CS:Go+Overwatch? Because I'm sure Palworld also had to do that. Is it the fact that RIOT changed the character/hero designs more before copying how they work? Also which game did Palworld copy past from, Ark? Pokemon? Some other survival or creature collection game? How can it be a copy of all of them at the same time, without being something new or original?
to be fair, at that point he did already say he thinks getting inspired is fine and talked at length about it in the street fighter example. He was talking about using riot characters and animations because those were actually copy-pasted into TFT. They very likely didn't copy-paste any source code form autochess.
The Riot Director is worried that copying each other's game will lead to less innovation, but I think that in market where there's no innovation, whoever gets to do it first will be rewarded even if they are copied afterwards
it's exactly what is happening in china, IP protection doesn't exist here so companies are all copying each other and are rewarded on the execution instead of the idea
I don't understand how you guys can watch the whole video and came out with the wrong idea of what Mort is saying. He is not worried about games copying each other that leads to less innovation, he already demonstrated how copying actually leads to people to innovate more on the idea. All he was pushing is "Get inspired all you want but do the work that you need to" , copy this model 98% however you want, but model it yourself. Actual braindead youtube comment section holymoly.
As a point of accuracy, EQ and Ultima Online have ancestry to text based "MUD's" (multi-user dungeons) not really to each other. "MUSH/MOO" and other terms were also used to describe similar games. Many of these would see active online concurrencies from 30-200, which was really significant for the time. Development on EQ started in 96, while the release of UO was in 97. Both of which were simplifications on various ideas from MUDs. Incidentally, there are tons of great ideas from MUDS that still haven't seen the light of day in modern gaming.
Designing Virtual Worlds is a great book laying out the history of MUDs and chastising modern (for whenever it was released) MMOs for copying the most braindead type of them and smothering out all the others.
EQ was basically a MUD with a 3d skin made apparent by how it dealt with commands and everything. Not saying that as a bad thing in any way, just as a point to the evolution of these things and how most games are just iterations on previous ideas. I played it a lot back in the day.
MUDs in the 90s could exceed 1000 players online easily. The one I played on AOL easily went over 1000 players at all times. Some of the original people are still there to this day.
Tempted to redownlet Mudlet and the mapper and play the game I uaed to, but I forgot my loging and would have to spend another 6 weeks script-rolling for perfect starting attributes on the MUD I used to play, and wouldn't have my quadbladed axe of something something. 😂
"11 yrs Former Nintendo dev" says a lot about it. For all that pizza pile, Palworld may only have been "inspired" on Pokemon on Pal design, pal spheres and the 5 towers, that's it. It is a survival game where the "pokemons" will automatize your base most of times, the Pal battle is not the goal but the means.
Also, the pals don’t even evolve which is also a Pokémon feature. I’m glad this conversation is happening because little by little we’re all realizing that it’s barely Pokémon with guns now 💀
@@cutejustice Yeah, it's pretty obvious after just 20 minutes to an hour playing the game. It's basically an easier valheim with worker management mechanics, characters that are heavily derivative of Pokemon, and various bits that are heavily derivative from Breath of the Wild. The idea that half the game has just been directly ripped off from somewhere else is pretty ridiculous simply because of just how much of a mishmash of different games Palworld is. He says the behaviors are copied. Really? Where in the Pokemon games do the pokemon mine rock and then go grab food from the storage building when they're hungry? It's certainly not in valheim or breath of the wild.
@@viktoriyaserebryakov2755 I agree with you there too, it's like already part way there(Look at Pengullet and Penking, they have the same work typing too(Watering/Handiwork/Transport whatever else I might have missed)
I think he is pointing out that the same company that did Palworld launched Craftopia, which was basically just Breath of the Wild combined with some Factorio. Then they took most of the Craftopia engine, put Ark and Pokemon stuff, and then released it as another game. But it works together so it's great.
They actually didn't. Craftopia uses Unity, Palworld uses Unreal, that' why alot of mechanics in Craftopia didn't make it over and mechanics in the Palworld trailer aren't in the game as of now. They've had to do a ground up rebuild of the game mid development. There's a youtuber who translated a Dev diary from the pocket pair CEO and it's enlightening.
League copied WC3 Dota? Successful. Valorant copied CSGO? Successful. TFT copied Underlords? Successful. Legends of Runeterra original idea? Failing, team facing layoffs. Riot forge? Shutdown. Hell, they even copied Blizzard's workplace harassment and somehow came out better than ever!
@@shaheedk.3386 my first thought on Legends of Runeterra trailer (which is quite faded cause it was a long time ago) was that the game were literally dota artifact but took out the "laning" stuff. But of course no one talks about it cause artifact was so bad people forgot it even existed.
difference is that Riots first employee was the guy who made parts of the DotA mod. it wasnt an entirely seperate entity that copied a game. Dota 2 and LoL are pretty much offsprings of the same parent. LoL isnt a DotA rip-off. its a mod turned into a full game. same as Dota 2, which also has original modders working on it.
One thing that everyone seems to not realize is Japan does not have a fair use law. Palworld has been public for some years! Do you think Nintendo would just let a game to be fully created for so many years without stopping the production? Hopefully this forces Gamefreak and other big publishers to step their game up because if not more Indy titles will continue to drop gems like Palworld!
He started well but failed later in the video. If he only used his own logic from the first part of the video and applied it to pokemon x palworld situation he wouldn't have the same conclusions. Logic error. I'm game programmer and even though I don't like playing palworld, I think it's a good game and there's nothing wrong with what they did. Almost every element of the game is completely different from any pokemon games. They could maybe try to be less obvious with the pokemon inspiration by for example changing the capture mechanic, and pal looks, but it's just a cherry on the top of the game. And they probably made it similiar because they are pokemon fans and wanted to show it to us. Everything else is different. It's a solid survival game with a clever use of monsters.
There's a little confusion here I would say. The point he made about Palworld was not about copying the theory of other games, it was about pulling out source files instead of building the base of the game yourself. Giving you a huge advantage over someone who is not stealing code/assets. Which is the right way to do it. That being said, to be proven it happened or not.
At this point there's too much examples to be honest. Models, sounds, effects. Even if these aren't copied ctr+c ctr+v in digital sense, they are obviously copied in general sense, they just made the same things.
What models? I heard that accusation was debunked because the guy stretched and manipulated them to make them closer matches because he hated Palworlds animal cruelty and more brutal features.
fyi, they didnt use 'mocap' back then, it was just animation frames, created from live shots of an actor. they would just record a video/or setup multiple photo shots, of actors acting out, to capture still photos (pausing vid for those frames), to edit and create sprites, that when played in sequence gives the illusion of motion. 'mocap' is used for capture motions of an actor as anchor points, to be applied to a 3d model, for ease of applying motion to the rigged model
They are not really "taking" the bottom 6 and just build the 3 top parts. They saw the bottom 6 points, liked them en thought we can build on that and re-made it from scratch. Implying that they stole\taken the bottom six is saying that a guy went into the Nintendo office with a USB stick and stole the game code... And for some reason it's cool when SF en MK does it, but if Pokémon and Palworld do it, it sets a dangerous precedence of games all becoming copies... How about autochess and TFT?
Right?! The guy spends the first half of his video implying that Palworld stole source code and reskinned it but his only proof was that things look similar.
@@tommy9565 Yea I don't understand how he made the leap that mortal combat taking street fighter's idea and pushing it further is ok but things are different in this situation. If indeed they stole the code and reskinned it sure that's not just a sketch situation it's a crime and Nintendo for sure can find out and fuck em over very hard.
@@iko20101 Indeed I wonder too. Or are you just being anal about how he didn't say the exact words "not ok"? Cause the whole 2nd part of the video is him calling it sketch and something that he doesn't think should be the norm in game dev. In my book that qualifies for rewording as "not ok".
Mort is just saying (I think rightly from a game dev perspective) that we need to be very careful. He's not accusing Palworld of anything, he says its a very good game. But he brings up a very good point that its becoming increasingly easy to steal assets. I don't think Palworld did, too much is different. But even if they didn't some scummy company will see this success and thats the route they will go.
I don't quite understand his standpoint where he gave example of streetfighter genre evolving into things like mortal kombat and then turn around and pretend that Palworld is all the sudden some villain that is doing the sketchy stuff of copying previous successful titles... Are we going to pretend that all these fighting games are not literally the same? There are literally no proofs that the Palworld devs "lift and shift" the assets and not "make their own"... And the example of the sound byte of discovering a new area is quite literally different if you compare it side by side even though the pitch and "feel" of them might be similar
Bro.... their UI, User Interface, is the exact same from Pokemon Arceus... like 1:1 stole it. The Pal management window IS LITERALY the Arceus Pokemon farm deposit screen. Palworld did the same as his previous game, took all of the hard worked systems from other games and implemented it into a very small creative frame. As a game developer myself i am scared shitless we are rewarding this.
I don’t understand that point of perspectives, it is like saying because fortnite got success every other game will try to emulate fortnight, which happened to some degree but we are still having incredible games from other genres , like when minecraft got real popular lots of games tried to do crafting and survival games, but did cod ,dota,LoL,overwatch,gta die? Ofc not, the only thing that kills a game is it getting emptied of content. So, creating an original idea and putting others games ideas in it is a good thing, it is like adding a mod to your game, it only increases the fun of it.
Asmon is not paying attention and misunderstanding. The game designer makes it quite clear its okay to take systems and mechanics from other games. The issue is straight up yoinking their code/model/art as a shortcut and then maybe changing it a bit. He makes it clear that its okay if you do it yourself from scratch.
prity sure I have heard that or simmiler sound long befor botw (whihc i have not played) Also an extremely disingenuous way of presenting an argument from the riot dev, shows the game with out the chime, then explain what “Should” happen based on the other games clip and chime, this creates a false assocation.
Thank you for mentioning Ultima Online that just made my day I have made the mistake of measuring every MMO by the open ended nature of UItima for the sheer variety of things you can do, and it has made it very hard for me to feel like anyone is truly trying harder. But the reality is after Ultima all MMO's just got more focused. I really want an action MMO to adopt the variety of Ultima Online thought.
My dad played Ultima Online while I was a baby, I grew up on his lap watching him play and probably what lead to my love of Video Games especially MMO's It was such a good game and it even has private servers running to this day, 27(?) Years later
A number of those mechanics you listed are even older than you are remembering, an example: the oldest knocked down and get stood back up i can remember is Wolfenstein enemy territory, but i wouldnt be surprised if its older than that
Riot Dev lecturing people on the ethics of "copying" video games..... as League, TFT, LoR, Valorant don't also heavily draw "inspiration" from popular titles around their creation. Genres are a thing and "copying" somethings base mechanics is just creating a new genre. Moba, Autobattler, Reverse Bullethell, Roguelike/lites, BotWlikes, Soulslikes all fundamentally aim to be very similar to the break out hit that spawned their genre. I wish Palworld was a copy of pokemon as that would mean pokemon was actually similar to what palworld is and not a over 10 year outdated gamefranchise whose biggest innovation was now also selling 2 full price DLCs per generation that is still split into 2 versions.
He says taking inspiration is not an issue especially if it leads to innovation and fun gameplay. The issue is where things are taken directly. He specifically mentions the opening sequence being almost identical to botw and one of the sound effects being in his words "basically the same".
This is just proving Asmond gold right. Game devs will make what people pay money for and don't care if a bunch of people don't like it if it makes enough money
The god damn irony. Man copies Drodo Studios' DotA Auto Chess and sells the idea to Riot to make exactly the thing he's describing. Systems Design, Enemy AI, Behaviors, Progression, everything copied but then re-skinned with League of Legends characters.
Did you play it? When you battle Pokemon Nobles, they attack you until you can create an opening. Other pokemon will attack you in the open world too when you aren't in the turn-based combat. That's why there is a dodge roll.
What he's saying is that is not the same making your own V8 engine based on another one's design, to take out the engine from another car, put it inside a different body work and call it Your own to then sell it
I think one of the funniest things I've seen about this whole pal world controversy with pokemon is that people saying that they are taking the likeness of pokemon.. which is absurd since everything has been turned to a pokemon at this point already atm as actual pokemon we have furniture, buildings, food, animals turned into pokemon just because they look similar don't mean jack shit when it comes to these designs
And the premise of the design is literally and obviously a tongue-in-cheek vibe. yet haters think the devs SHOULD serious about it XD Lovander is just a more lewd version of Salazzle for example.
It's also very hard to create massively original designs off of real-world creatures. It's just been done too many times. There are only so many ways you can design a small penguin creature before it starts looking same-y. I also don't think people understand that Pokemon own THEIR unique designs. They do not own the concept of "fire fox creature" or "water penguin"
@@valeereon9954exactly, while there are a few Pals that look a little too close to some Pokémon it’d be as simple as just redesigning them a little to look distinct. (Which for some of the pals would be a good thing because not all of them look amazing.)
@@valeereon9954I have to disagree with the the first part. I had a similar discussion about this a few days ago with Lamball, Sheepmon, Feeop and Woolie, with the speeh-like monsters. The thing is there is not a limited number of " designs" of a real life creature can be, just look at other monster capture game and series.
One thing we need to think about now, is a lot of game basics are now assets, like the mining animation in Palworld feels like every other Unreal game, because they use the same basic animation. And coding has gotten a lot simpler, there isn't a need to write your game in assembly, like pokemon on the gameboy., or trying to squeeze out more frames in the Doom render code. Animations are still a bit of an issue, since a lot of characters have a different mesh structure, but there are only so many ways for a dog like creature to walk.
Saying assembly is not a fair comparison as that was LOONG ago a game would be made in that. Programming is easier though with improvements in ide tools and a lot of established algorithms and methodologies to handle things.
Only for player. Pals have their own animation for type of creature(like all dear cut tree same way) but also some pals have uniq mining/cutting animation.
I think that what the game-dev is saying that it doesnt matter if you take inspiration, or even try to do things the same as the original. His point is that you should try and do that, cause inspiration is good, just without copying 1-1 the game from the ground-up( engine, art, sounds, systems etc) cause that sets the bar at stealing someone else's work, not just his idea.
I do find it odd that a riot developer is bringing up these points when their whole catalogue of games is copying other games and improving upon them which isn't a bad thing in my opinion, just seems a tad bit hypocritical. Dota > LoL system design, level design, NPC ai CS > valorant level design , progression, system design Auto chess > team fight tactics I am unfamiliar with this title but am sure there are stark similarities Again I think these are all great games was just a bit surprised by his final viewpoint.
Not only that, his example was Craftopia and showing how similar it is to Palworld, which is a game from the same developer? So they used their own assets?? So what?? He spent the first half of the video talking about how thats ok since you did the original work. Maybe he meant to also show the similarities to Zelda BOW but still that game is much different than Palworld.
Yea, and if you look at League's original characters it launched with, and compare them to original dota characters... Its literally more blatant ripoff than palworld.
@@-Cesh- i guess he didn't actually do in-depth research about the topic and saw that people say that palworld took asset from craftopia and never actually looked up who made the games.
They wrapped up a bunch of good ideas and concepts from other games and made their own. Playing the game you realize that they seemed to have built the games coding themselves (or maybe bought the code from someone) but it's definitely not Nintendo's coding or any game that I can think of. The animations and movement behaviors from the characters and Pals don't seem familiar to me from any other game.
Craftopia actually reminded me more of Genshin Impact in that scene just by the scenery and the city off in the distance. It looks like the city of Mondstadt. Perhaps this company is choosing a bunch of games and mashing them into one? My issue with people complaining is that... What Pokemon game could they have stolen the chunk from? The Pals look like Pokemon, and Pokemon look like Dragon Quest monsters. The human imagination can only go so far and using real life creatures and adding your own take is the easiest route. After playing Palworld the only correlation is the Pal appearances (which are quite the stretch sometimes) and "me throw ball at monster and monster mine." Every game has a feel to it and Palworld feels like Palworld when I play it. Climb walls? Cool. You can do that in Conan. Fly on beasts? Many games allow you to do it. Guns? America. The sequence of exiting a crypt and showing you the world should be detached from BOTW by now and simply be defined as a tactic developers use to say "Hey, this is what we have to offer you. Welcome to the game!" .........The noise when you enter a new zone do be kinda sus though ngl
Except even the BOTW 'section', where you leave a subterranean structure only to be met with an extensive vista... you mean the opening of Fallout 3? The fact that these people take basic concepts and pretend the version that hit them the most invented it just shows how bad their take is.
Craftopia is like, everything they could manage to cram into a game. And all of it feels half assed. When I saw palworld I originally assumed he just wanted Pokémon but couldn't shove it into craftopia without starting over.
Regarding the noise, what about all the games copying the clearly use similar sound when picking up coins, a similar sound when picking up items, a similar sound when using an item, etc. Saying "this sounds similar" is the equivalent of saying "this generic cola really reminds me of coca-cola". Yeah no s**t that the generic cola is going to try tasting like one of the most popular cola brands.
@@ViddyOJames This whole video is literally about copying a concept Vs copying 1 for 1 and how the whole thing is basically a grey area for the most part when it comes to derivations. The concept of crawling out of an intro sequence to a vista that makes the world feel large and ready to explore is not new. If you have an issue with the 'actually' I really am not bothered. The comment above stands with or without it. If you want an IMO at the end then that's all good too 😅 as that's what all UA-cam comments are. Opinion.
So the dev takes 25 minutes saying that copying is ok if you actually do the hard work to make the copy, and then ad a spin, then at the very end he claims that Palworld took source code from Nintendo?
Copying an idea is not the same as copying the entire world (and potentially code) from breath of the wild and injecting your own character models. Not saying that's what palworld did but that's what I took from what this guy was saying.
Yea this dev starts off strong. But the second he starts his speculation it takes a nose dive. Even from his experience working in the industry he takes inspiration from other games and makes his own derivatives. He’s lead director of TFT which started as a direct clone of Dota Auto chess. Riot didn’t copy the code from dota but the games were almost identical in the beginning. Pal world has done the same. Developed its own code on a different engine from breath of the wild. But this dev is speculating that large chunks of code were just taken and reskinned for palworld.
No he didnt say that palworld took the source code from nintendo. Watch it again with your brain turned on :) He SPECULATES that they may have literally taken parts from BOTW, because there are things that are way too eerily similar. Too similar that it wouldve been easier to just make it slightly different ( if you made it yourself).
When he started saying sketcch I wanted to spit my drink out. Dota was a mod of a blizzard game which LoL copied and kill all other copies besides the OG Dota 2. ALL BR was a improved copy of h1Z1. Valorant is cartoon csgo @@TheShadowSlayer007
its a projection of what he did with TFT and Dota Auto chess and whats Riot games development plan that's been in effect and planned future copies of other genres. Its safe to say the free market is winning when it comes to monster capture games @@RomGomLP
That was a pretty poor take by mortdog. His definition of “yoinked” could apply to all FPS games, fighting games and the auto battlers, etc. They clearly built everything themselves as the history is there to see in craftopia. They had a middling game that they iterated upon with more Pokémon style capture mechanics which then took off. There is no aspect of this game that was yoinked by his original definition and yet he sums up suggesting they have actually done some yoinking… Mort doesn’t address any of this but just goes “ummm kinda bad”.
all i can think about when they brought up mobile games is the game that just straight up is useing palworlds trailers as there own... no changes just straight up palworlds trailer playing and a link to the app store.
I think I got aa good example of the "clone game" effect. I just tried Enshrouded, at first I was thinking it was like Valheim mostly, with a different story, but I think there is a bit more to it. But yeah if you have played Valheim you can jump into Enshrouded really easily. Its the same effect they were explaining. Like someone once said "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."
I think people on this level really need to be careful if they are going to accuse people of IP theft. They are much more easy to target for a defamation lawsuit than some guy on Twitter.
Something about him including the engine in the copy-paste block triggers me. Craftopia is made in Unity, if I remember right, Zelda definitely isn't. This would mean to even do a 1:1 clone you would have to put in too much effort to get it right. I like how just earlier he mentioned they took things from League to make TFT but then a game starting from scratch trying to copy another game is somehow wrong when the effort involved was same or more.
palworld isn't even made in unity. it was switched to ue4 mid development so that point of his was wrong from the start. the dude was like do as i say not as i do, i can copy and reuse things to make game but you shouldn't do it.
@@126644 These days it's easier to say what isn't made with Unreal Engine. I also don't understand what you mean here because just using the same engine as another game doesn't mean you are copying either.
@onesilverleaf6781 you're technically reusing part of the games codebase from a different game that was also made in unreal to do everything 100% from scratch would take an unnecessary amount of time. So even though pocket pair technically used code they didn't write themselves, its not really an issue because Epic games public licensed that code for public use.
Palworld has done the best thing possible, took all the best things we love and mashed them together in their own way, if anything they’ve been more imaginative than most game studios now who just rehash games year after year or add pointless skins for loads of money
7:44 Mortal Kombat isn't motion capture at all though; it's pixilation. They straight up took photos/videos of actors in costumes and created animated sprites with them.
Yes, Asmon is 1000% wrong here. The first MK game that used motion capture was one of the PS games, the one with a MOCAP secret character. The first game to use motion capture was Virtua Fighter, I think. If it wasn't first, it was second or third but certainly wasn't MK. What makes it even funnier is the style of taking photos frame by frame and making sprites also didn't originate from MK. Many arcade games in the late 80s already did this. Pit Fighter, which predates MK by 2-3 years is a fantastic example. I don't mean to totally dog on him here but it's kinda annoying to see him say that in full confidence when he's waaaaaaay off the mark.
I think the Craftopia and Zelda comparison is interesting, because Craftopia didn't launch as an open world game, they reworked it halfway through Early Access. Seems unlikely that they built it on existing Nintendo tech, but I can imagine they hired a few ex-Nintendo devs and they had a big impact on its rework.
There's no way Craftopia was built on "Nintendo tech," it was made with Unity that anyone can download. Even you can if you want to and make a Zelda clone if you wished.
@@elmertsai1312 I said imagine, its pure speculation on my part. But whilst the gaming industry is quite large, the vast majority of people in it have worked at a very small number of companies at one time or another due to sheer volume of people they recruit (EA, Activision, Ubisoft, Sony, MS, Nintendo, etc). As Pocket Pair is a Japanese company, it wouldn't be a massive leap to assume Nintendo has had a big influence on them, and possible (given how large Nintendo is), that one or two of their people have previous experience at Nintendo.
Note: Palworld was made by a small devteam over the course of about 4 year's. They had no experience but wanted to make a game and had by chance found someone with experience working at a convenience store, as far as I know, there's less than 5 people at Pocket Pair. This is from the Interview with Pocketpair on Tokyo TV. Google it but there isn't really a translation.
@@TheGrzB well if thats the point asmons point made no damm sense, yeah your the goose its still your eggs anyone would be madd, why would you be madd if someone was stealing your money, when you have a money press i guess.
So, very popular games that that proves that people don't care if the game "is a copy", because the end result is good, and yes pulling really stretch saying league is good
Watched the original. Talking about plagiarism - VERY ironic coming from Riot dev, who are famous for stealing whole game systems from FoTMs - TFT being the most egregious one and the one he worked on))) Apparently his work was NOT creating clone of Autochess, otherwise I don't realise how he got on such a high moral ground...
The amount of time and money to create something competitive from the ground up is quite insane nowadays. But I think that with AI and UE5 we might be getting to a new chapter of game making where the new top layers can go a lot closer to the bottom ones.
Hearing Asmon talk about Mortal Kombat was another reminder of how old I'm getting. I remember playing a game in the arcade called Pit Fighter that used real people before Mortal Kombat came out.
The exact same reason why WB making a patent for their nemesis mechanic ensuring no one legally gets to replicate or improve on it. Wanting to protect your ideas from others to replicate or improve on them is what kills progress.
When KanColle took off, people were wondering if there will be like a localization for it. It never happened. People made knock offs of it. One was Azur Lane. And now it filled in to what KanColle couldn't and offered things that KanColle wouldn't.
I think that the part about being worried about being rewarded for doing so little, and that those that put in the work originally will stop because they wont feel rewarded themselves is an interesting topic. But...doesn't every previous era feel the same way. Old cartoons were hand drawn frame by frame, then new ways came in to better automate the process. Websites used to be nothing but handwritten/typed code with the only way of visually seeing what you've created was to deploy it after each new line or change in code. Games development software has come a long way too. And every previous contractor that used these old methods probably felt the same way as the portrayed pokemon employee's. I feel like this is a step forward. You shouldn't have to reinvent math every time you're given a math question, just grab a calculator like everyone else and be efficient. Using vectors, coding, engine from another game is no different from using a hammer or drill on a construction site. And on a side note, about all the "its a pokemon game with guns", if you go break down all the features and mechanics in this game, its almost nothing like pokemon. If anything its ARK:Survival Evolved but automated and with catchable cartoon monsters instead of tameable dinosaurs/creatures. Palworld although buggy, has ticked so many boxes and much like Baldurs Gate has taken a existing genre to a completely new level. Sounds like Nintendo is just mad that they'll be held to a higher standard now.
Absolutely zero chance they have code from nintendo in this. Those game run on different engines even, while this is un UE5. It's ironic that he sets up the entire first half of the argument saying it's fine if you do the work yourself to make a clone, and then out of nowhere, suspects they outright copied large chunks directly from some other games. It's not even slightly likely. They 100% took a lot of design directly from other games shamelessly, like the way area names are revealed and the jingle that plays, those are clearly a case of "I'll just make what I saw in BotW" but they are also clearly different sounds. They did a lot of what those street fighter clones did, they took heavy "inspiration" and built a game from scratch using that.
I get that saying "if we encourage this we're going to see more of it happening more often" but at least in the case of Pokemon I'm sorry but that's a good thing. Nintendo and Gamefreak haven't provided a good pokemon title that deserves the sales it gets in ages. If more people start working on that formula and give me a better product, as a fan of the series I see that as a win. The other indie not-pokemon titles are nowhere near as enjoyable as pal world. So more people going after the Legends Arceus formula but refined is a W for me
"if we encourage this we're going to see more of it happening more often" is a statement valid since 3 decades ago. I'm surprised Palworld gets this flak when that is not new at all. It simply gets traction because it got successful and haters a malding hard XD
hes not saying that its a bad thing that well get spinoffs / refined versions / copies of games and ideas. Hes saying that if people just keep literally copying games 1:1, there will be nothing to copy anymore very soon, and wed just have a huge soup of shit getting more mediocre by the minute. He obviously said its a good thing to copy something and make your own thing out of it and make it better, why would that suddenly not be true anymore ?
@@RomGomLP Because that's ALREADY the case almost a decade now, but he implies that after the success of Palworld which makes his point SUS. Palworld ain't the catalyst for the flooding of sloppy copy games in the market, that already happens AND we as consumers have a say on that anyway. Don't like it? don't buy it SIMPLE FIX
@@D3adCl0wn To a point, yes I see your point. But im pretty sure mort is talking about an even worse version. The mobile scpace reskinning meta coming to PC and worse. Im pretty sure a gamedev with 19 years of experience knows about the current state of pc gaming
the main argument is, it's okay to copy things of games, if you create it as a copy (basically if i open an engine and code mario's movement and enemies and maybe add a twist and change the skin). But it's bad if you just LITERALLY copy and paste (so if I just open mario's code base, assets etcetc, and control C+ control V and it's in my game)
That's a law. Western empire gets in front of every line thanks to it, you might have hear of COPY RIGHT law? You don't know the law because thanks to Fair Use you don't HAVE to follow a law if Google pays your bills and you operate legal piracy OUTSIDE of capitalism. Sell a pirated game? "Evil". ift assets for "transformative" yt videos? Your right. Under literally THE BIGGEST corporation. You literally have children harvest coffee, and arms of one of the same 5 megacorporations in USA, reskin the branding. You're gonna call people "idiots" for buying "the same game" even if its their first ever. When that rebranding LITERALLY just exists, so you wouldn't FEEL like soviet colonies that you are for buying a blank slate whitelabel instances of the SAME consumer item.
The other funny thing that's not mentioned by most people either is, most pokemon are not copyrighted, and most are not eligible to be copyrighted do to the fact they don't posses enough distinct features. As someone who has published through these systems, I can tell you that the process has you send the image and list each feature that makes up a logo or character, a lot of times you can't do it for the reasons mentioned above.
Yeah, it seems to me that people are saying that gamefreak own the copyright to the concept of merging 2 or 3 creatures and objects xD. It's so nonsensical to me.
I think what Mort is trying to say is threefold: 1. Idea’s not copyright protected, you can’t say someone stole your idea, and it’s a good thing people build games on one idea cuz it makes it better every time. I think most people would agree to this. 2. You gotta build your own foundation though. That’s his main response to Asmon, that while gamers only care about if the game’s good or not, it doesn’t mean that “game’s good” is the only metric to evaluate a game. It’s an important one but not the only one, because if it is the only one then you don’t know what that would do to the industry, he used the $25 horse from WoW I believe as a snowball demonstration. If we reward games that just take massive chunk of unoriginal developed contents and implement them into the game, sure Pal might be super fun and it hits the fun metric with flying colour but then devs are going to follow suit and the end result years later might not be what we want. So we need to be careful what we are wishing for. He’s based this argument under his speculation that Pal did stole some of the assets from BotW and others, but of course it is unproven. I personally cannot comment on this as I have not played Palworld, as a complete outsider, does it seem like Pal took inspiration from other titles, of course, but did they copy and paste? IDK. However, I do think what Mort is trying to remind us is also important, if there ever is a game that is massively similar to an existing one, but it is super fun, we should still question and criticize it for the similarities, instead of just basking in the fun. We’ve been doing that though, like League to Dota, like Genshin to BotW, like TFT to Autochess. Maybe Palworld sort of blown things out of proportion and is in Mort’s eye a heavy offender (copied a very massive chunk that’s unprecedented) which prompted him to say this. 3. AI doesn’t matter… yet.
Yes. They are still learning how to develop games. With the exception on one person, they knew nothing when they started working on Crafttopia. Now, they are starting to do better.
I think others reasons for using similar systems, like the ark tech tree is its easy to pick up and understand, the advantage of using a known good progression system is easy access as people can interact with it with out having to learn something new. This allows the new aspects of the game easier to use as they aren't loaded down with a ton of new systems to learn making it easier to enjoy and have fun from the start.
I don't see how this guy can say it's ok for Riot to almost 1:1 copy DotA map layout but it's "weird" for Craftopia to copy a part of BotW. He did not even provide evidence for it either. Like people say, nobody cares if the game is good. But the way this dev draws the line in the sand seems arbitary and highly subjective.
He's not saying they "Yoinked" it from Nintendo, he's saying the "Yoinked" it from their own game, Craftopia (even if he doesn't realise it). Having never looked at it before, he's pretty well on the money for the opening world shot. Basically what Dark Souls or any other franchise does.
i dont think that's quite true (assuming i understood your statement correctly). the opening sequence (the staircase into cliff vista into camp shot) in palworld is discernably different from craftopia, whereas craftopia vs. botw is almost equivalent. im pretty sure the point he's trying to make is that it's not a "rip-off" but literally a "rip" of the source code because "it's normally hard, but if you have the source + reskinning, it's easy... and that looked pretty easy" (@ 20:50). from my perspective, it seems like he's challenging craftopia stealing botw code; and, by association, there's probably stolen stuff in palworld. personally, i disagree with him mostly for the reason, as others point out, that "if nintendo knows, nintendo will kill (in court)," but i'm too unknowledgeable on the subject of whatever japanese copyright laws and/or generative AI stuff to have a proper opinion here. I'm also pretty sure all three games on topic are using different engines but i'm not sure how easy it would be to translate between engines.
While I agree about being cautious about rewarding copying systems across, the dev has made a fantastic product that combined aspects of multiple games in a wonderful way and it must have been tough to tie everything together cohesively. Its still innovation in the monster tamer genre that nobody else was doing and it makes so much sense. The game is fun. I know its not the same kind of thing but there's still a bit of irony that's not lost on me seeing a Riot dev talking about taking systems from other games. As Asmongold pointed out, LoL draws from DoTA (granted the founders were originally involved in dota, however Marc Merrill literally said this about the origin of LoL: “We thought maybe we could build this sort of DOTA-style game,”), TFT launched after DoTA Underlords and Valorant draws from Counter-Strike. That all being said, LoL has brought in its own innovations and developed in a different direction to DoTA, the same is true for TFT and Valorant. While I'm a DoTA player I think there's a place for all of these games. I MUCH prefer TFT to DoTA Underlords for example.
the thing with game industry nearly every game stole some parts of older game and made better products of same consept. Artis and devs somehow think that games equal to art gallery where inspiration is looked more strictly.
Prince of Persia was way before MK. PoP was 1989 MK was 1992. >Mechner used an animation technique called rotoscoping, with which he used footage to animate the characters' sprites and movements. To create the protagonist's platforming motions, Mechner traced video footage of his younger brother running and jumping in white clothes.
The fact that he says game devs follow the money actually really bothers me, thats the real reason why games are the same nowadays. You should want to make a game because you know it to have good ideas that people will enjoy to play, not to make money.
It should be both. As a developer you WANT to make money so you can keep making games while also still feeding yourself and/or family and keep a roof over your head. But you should also want to make games that people WANT to play and ALSO has fresh ideas or at least revitalizing stale genres/ideas in interesting ways. The stagnation of the industry when it used to be an intense 'wild west' of ideas and genres is disheartening. Though many companies died during that mad 'gold rush' of ideas and innovation too despite it all.
So devs should eat lentils for the rest fo their life? Money makes the world go round, if oyu like it or not. If you want a game that is what the dev/you wants, just get a few hundred million dollars. Wait, wasn't there one dev who did that? Something with star people or so? From a guy from Wing Commander? Who said he would release a all-beating better Wing Commander game by 2014?
An important note is that Pocket Pair had been very publicly creating Palworld over the course of the last 4 years. Both of them being in japan and the fact that Nintendo is the most strict in protecting it's IP's. Means that, despite the fact many of the twitter, reddit and youtube activists voicing and claiming fraud, copyright infringement or theft, think nintendo don't know. There's basically 0 chance they didn't. They probably knew about it before most of us, there's a large team of people at nintendo just searching for things to shut down. Nintendo shut down a Pokemon MOD for Palworld, in less than 2 days. You really think that over 4 year's of public development, trailer's, teaser's and pictures that Nintendo wouldn't shut down Palworld? C'mon.
Edit: It's worth noting that given all the technique's, and advancements in the industry. Making a game is easier now than it has EVER been. For Indie's at least. And the logistics of it are a bit complicated but, there's thousands of tutorials out there. And you can have a computer generate terrain for you, and here's the thing, it's not AI, we've been doing it for decades. You input a simple repeating command line for the placement of trees a certain distance apart from eachother, randomly, in a certain area. That saves HOURS of time. And things like this are EVERYWHERE in the industry. And the BEST part about being Indie is that no one expect you to make a AAA game with cutting edge graphics, advanced game systems and thousands of hours of depth. They just expect it to function and be fun. So you can cut corner's and focus on things that are more important. AAA studios can't do that and that's why they're mad, game development CAN be easy, they just never expect an indie studio to actually out perform them.
Exactly, you can not copyright concepts.
another perspective is that Nintendo did not bother Palworld, until well, until they blew up. Better try to make buck from a rich company rather than stomping on a budding company. But I agree, that big N will have no case against Palworld. The only thing that really links both together is the Pal Sphere aka Pokeball, everything else is original/common enough for a pass.
@xygdra yeah the thing with copyright and laws like that is if you don't do it right away you lose the right to do it later
@@xygdra concept wise who cares, but seriously you cannot sit there and tell me that many of the Pals designs are just basic OC recolors of existing pokemon from model and art style alone.
Theres a reason nobody cared with Digimon or Yokai Watch or DQ Monsters because while the idea of monster catching is similar at least the monsters are different enough in artistic style and design alone. (Which is bothering when people bring up the Dragon Quest V monsters vs Pokemon Gen I because the designs werent blatant recolors just reimagined looks of the same idea)
Without the source code of PalWorld, Nintendo would be hard pressed to prove the theft it's the only reason we haven't seen action taken yet. But yeah keep wildly speculating like you know! That works too!
Devs mentioning Asmon as bald man always is hilarious
haha wtf
At this point he's just calling out asmon's reaction
His title is Gameplay Director, but yes he is the lead dev for TFT. @@jamesprice371
@@jamesprice371 he could be using easier terms for the audience.
he was originally a game designer for nintendo, then riot, then became the director for TFT, quick google search can answer many questions @@jamesprice371
I think he forgot to mention that Palworld doesn't just take like 60% of Pokemon or something, but has ideas from Pokemon, Souls games, Ark, BOTW/TOTK, and probably more I'm not thinking of, like for the base management systems. So it's less of a reskin and repackage, but more of a whole new idea. It's mixed together well.
this 100% ...more like dude without idea what he wants from game but sees lot of cool sht all around and wants to combile them to one working package....if people would go same route that "nintendo fanboys" do against everything that dosnt carry pokemons name....pokemon wouldnt exist....i mean whole frikin idea of pokemon is basicly taken from dragon quest and digimon....most 1gen pokemons go pretty much 1:1 with dragon quest and that capture mechanic is pretty much just fleshed out digimon(the handheld battle thing u had as kid that scanned bar codes behind items on store for "better monsters")
I think it would also be an interesting analogy with a chef, they can also make a dish inspired by a bunch of ingredients in an existing dish, but they will still add their own flavour/flourish and garnish.
2 words - Conan exiles
palworld looks a lot like a less buggy ark
@@pekonipilvi116 you've just described Warframe hahaha
I recall saying “I’d love to be able to do this” in video games I’ve played, but developers have a vision for their games which doesn’t allow for it. Palworld offers that “all-in-one” experience.
Crafting from stuff in chests. Something I needed a mod for in Valheim, comes standard in Palworld. I like it.
Even my modded Skyrim has linked crafting, it's just a crime not to include it in any open world base building simulator in the 2020's. Hell, even vanilla Fallout 4 has linked storage. You can even access things from other remote settlements with the right perks!
People are forgetting that game designers and devs are almost assuredly all gamers. They play this shit and then make their own games. You sure as shit know they talk about minimaos vs composes and mention Witcher and Skyrim and plan and how they want navigation to work in their game. They played FromSoft games and soulslikes or Monster Hunter and have a firm understanding of 3rd person action games s parry, mechanics and decide if they want something similar in their game, that decision changed how much of an action game it is. PalWorld doesn’t have too many original ideas but the devs slapped together a thing that took all these memes (ideas not viral internet images) and made it how they want. This guy in the video makes a bold claim and provides zero evidence aside from Craftioia had a cliff vista that looks kinda like Breath of the Wilds intro scene? No overlaying the images or anything further than “hey since I think they stole assets from BotW because it kinda looks the sameish, they for PalWorld they probably stole a bunch of other shit that won’t name and did minimal touch up or mashing up of stolen shit? Like Asmond said, player want QoL stuff they want cool mechanics that have become common elements in games like fast travel, a quick stack to chest option, sorting, an roll dodge, mounts and other movement progression (hello Terraria and Calamity mod movement progression 😉).
It’s derivative like the fighting games that followed Street Fighter 2, what a weird take for this guy to completely 180 with no evidence other than a gut feeling. A real nothing burger accusation and take.
The movement in Palworld is a massive win to me. It’s so satisfying deploying the eagle to glide, quickly transitioning to flight on another Pal, satisfying dodge moves and the freedom to toss Pal Spheres from just about any position. Just think what this game can become if they continue to shower it with the love it most definitely deserves for the satisfaction it’s already provided during early access.
I wish the devs and their AI all the best of luck in this games development after a long line of recent flops from other devs in the industry.
I dont think Palworld is a legitimate game, in sense i feel its a short lived hype game, its made out of memes and multiple things that are detached completely between each other, its complete chaos, its random, and the memes goes hard on it, and thats what current teens really love, it can generates a lot of dark humor...etc
im not really interested in such games, i cant play a survival + pokemon with slavery + Fortnite drawing all in one...
Mortal Kombat didnt use "motion capture suits" originally for most of their early released 2D fighters. they recorded actual video of people doing fighting moves in costumes and just used the photos as frames in the game.
thank you for pointing this out! (immediately checked here when he said that! XD)
This is correct. I remember watching a Behind The Scenes movie of making Mortal Kombat, and they had the martial artists in costume perform the moves.
This was some really ahead of its time stuff, which is why I think Mortal Kombat was so awesome back in the SNES days. But once graphics caught up, it just didn't really innovate in terms of mechanics and just kind of became less relevant as other franchises did cooler stuff--namely Guilty Gear, Tekken, Mahvel vs. Capcom, and SF is still the OG and going strong.
@@Ilyak1986 Yup exactly! Mortal Kombat is credited for first game to copy a live actors movements and convert it directly into digital form... Not the first game to use motion capture suits. But technically it wasn't the first to do that either. Vixen 1988 did something similar before that, but it looks like shit so no one cares. I've tried looking up what game is the first to actually use Motion Capture suits and I havent been able to find any info.
I thought I read it was both. Both first to use real actors and to use motion capture in a game or maybe it was fighting game.
@@BVaccaro88 Asmon's comment and the quote was " motion capture suits" the specifics matter. Motion capture suits, and motion capture are not the same thing. MK was the first game to be widely credited for using motion capture, not motion capture suits. The workflow for using the suits is much more extensive as it requires the data to be digitally transfered to a rig that generally is used for 3d models. MK didnt do that. They recorded video and most likely downressed frames from the video to low quality flat images.
This palworld stuff seems really blown outta proportion
People have too much free time and not enough problems
Welcome to the internet
To be fair, it is an interesting question when a game breaks the mainstream and subjects itself to question of artistic creativity. I have no stake in it but the content is fun for me regardless
It’s the unemployed devs over the past year complaining 😂
That is literally the issue with everyone that has it good RN. Cry and bich about every little thing, no matter how pointless, meanwhile people get bombed to death and starve in other places.. smh@@vinkizik
I think one of the stranger complaints about asset reuse I remember was the fact that the blood splatters from Dark Souls 3 were the same as Bloodborne. I remember quite a few people were really upset about it, and I remember thinking "there are only so many ways to make blood splatters. It's an asset that stays in the background, I don't think it's a huge problem"
Taking years to give us plumes on helmets, now THAT was a problem
I am 99% certain they are not the same at all, Bloodborne's blood splatters are quite large and over exaggerated, the ones in DS3 are small, ugly and brown lol.
I honestly don't think I've ever heard anyone say the blood in those two games are similar.
I dont think anyone with sanity actually cares if the same developers reuse their own assets. It's when developers copy someone else's assets is when it becomes a problem.
The shading changed, but it think they are refering to the mask that cuts out the shape.@@EmiliaJohanssonnn
I dont see a problem with that, but if the blood looks the same in every game that comes out in the next 10 years it would start bothering me
@@EmiliaJohanssonnn Nah as someone who plays both religiously, they're exactly the same, down to the color. Only reason they look different is the lighting of the two games.
A lot of people don't know that DotA was a port to WC3 from Aeon of Strife from Broodwar. DotA wasn't the first moba. Aeon of Strife was.
Aeon of Strife was also in wc3 before DotA... DotA was literally called an AoS map when it first was created.
it was such hot garbage haha, heroes werent modded, vanilla items etc... Was the baseline AoS 3 teams from the start or did it come after?@@WabbaCc
Every game today is a ripoff of some old game.. Its almost impossible to make something new. Open world, crafting, fighting, shooting, digging, building, and so on have all been done. Hell, Pokemon is a rip off of real animals.
@la8ball pokemon is a megami tensei ripoff actually.
A lot of people don’t even know what those games are let alone abbreviations of them
Id really like to hear how a 30 dollars game is problematic while Sega is selling to me dlcs for 60dollars.
They get less content every release but the price just keeps climbing....
or cutting more and more things out of the game just to see it as a deluxe edition feature.
@@Dianbler Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth has more content to justify their 70$. NG+ is irrelevant for 99% of the players that are gonna play it. The people complaining don't even buy nor play the game. Please stay in your lane.
Sega is just dissecting their products and selling it parts by parts. It's scummy, yes, but at least Sega ain't IP thieves.
@@Paraguai123complete shill post. Forget the lane you are not even on the road. Except the road to perdition.
People should be happy that some random developers can make a huge hit game on a small budget, it shows the AAA devs up and that's a good thing.
no, it shows the devs that the can buy UE5 asset packs a you will buy it
Riot is mad they didnt doit first
Link one
@@imrendered Did they? Oh well, game is fun.
I don't see it as a negative if you can make a good fun game and keep the budget down, That's a win win.@@imrendered
The engine is totally different between Palworld and any Pokemon game, which is one of the hardest aspects to learn when developing games...
Blue Protocol for example still stay in UE4 because it would takes too much effort to UE5 and that's from same types of engine.
You missed the point entirely. He's clearly talking about Breath of the Wild. Basically the accusation is he they reskinned a game they didnt own and then add pokipals.
@@helmholtzthemulewatson4763 You must be talking about Genshin.
They didn’t make the engine, it’s unreal engine. In fact, it’s unapologetically unreal engine. Animations are straight out of Fortnite
We’re we talking about the difference in Pokémon and palworld in this video?
16:30 I totally remember when Mist of Pandaria came out and by those times like 1 of every 3 mobile games on the Play Store would have a smirking/cool panda face icon with green acents and they all looked like clones to each other.
"why should i get mad about people stealing my golden eggs when im the goose" is the most alpha thing Zack ever said
That philosophy is why he blew up so much on UA-cam. He never copyright striked people using his content so he spread and then he hired the top clippers as his editors.
And much like Zack, eggs are also bald.
As long as the goose is able get one of its own eggs to hatch into a golden goose, then it’s fine, but otherwise it would be a problem.
if everyone has golden eggs then they no longer have value
he is named Zack?
It would be like Mojang getting mad at every survival crafting game.
Even the blocky survival crafting game scene got a lot of options
This just shows you don't understand the difference between a concept and actual code. Don't worry Asmongold can't figure this out either apparently. Sure you can steal the idea just don't steal All the code that went into implementing the idea that's the difficult part...
Which they couldn't even do, because minecraft is just an infiniminer ripoff.
There's a key difference between ripping off an idea and copying actual code 1:1
Yet none of you actual troggs understand this and it's so obvious it hurts.
The shortcut thing is super legit. Baldur's Gate 3 is a masterpiece because they took the "shortcuts" in so many areas that they could focus entirely on the things that delivered an unprecedented RPG experience. They had an engine from DoS, their systems design is the actual 5th edition ruleset with some very minor tweaks, and they had the foundational IP of the forgotten realms to write within. I don't think you could make a game to the same level of quality without that starting position, literal years of development saved.
This is a very important point, and it's true not only in game development but literally every project or even skill you want to learn
People tend to mistake taking shortcuts as to mean cutting corners, when it's about reaching the desired result while cutting out the needless steps. Recognizing when you already have a chunk of the work done saves you the trouble of starting from scratch, much like building something from a set of LEGOs.
Part of the reason the Warcraft movie was such a let down in my opinion. You had years and years of lore, character design, and world already there on a silver platter, not to mention a massive fan base already during that time. All they had to do was focus on the production side but somehow it just ended up not being very good.
If only Pokemon actually did this Palworld wouldn't have popped off as hard. Pokemon did ALL the shortcuts but never focused on improving the experience 🤣
What's unprecedented in BG3?
The problem with the copy/paste aspects is the likelihood that those studios will still want to have a dedicated team to address issues with those systems as they arise is much lower, and kind of the goal right? To not pay people for work and to pocket as much as possible. So when those systems start breaking, you're gonna see long stretches of time where things stay broken, because they few team members they have didn't build it themselves and so it makes it harder to fix.
and for devs it's probably a big threat to their job security if fewer people are needed to develop big games.
I think that is a huge logic leap, and it doesn't add up, Pokémons don't use weapons, you can't fight them with your fists, it's not a survival/construction game, it doesn't use the same engine.
What he doesn't mention is that the devs of Palworld didn't just take the whole stack from 1 game. They took multiple pieces from multiple games, and making them fit together isn't an easy job, especially when you have different genres
Even if they did take it from one game, so what? They ultimately made something fun in the end.
Asset flips get a bad rep because they’re used by a lot of scammers and people without talent.
But if you asset a whole game, pay for the assets and make something fun… then good. That’s a good thing.
At the end of the day, dude is just gate keeping because these indie devs are a threat to AAA devs.
@@EggEnjoyer Then its also not an asset flip, asset flip refers specifically to basically rebundlng assets as a glorified walking simulattor
yeah the video almost seemed to imply the stole, or copy pasted the "stack". but he also says recreating botw from scratch would be impressive, so which is it? it's kind of confusing to me, palworld just integrates a bunch of mechanics the devs enjoy from other games. but they made the features themselves, there's no evidence of thievery.
He's also pretending you can "just take it", when it's not that simple, they had to rebuild all of those systems and mechanics from scratch.
The bottom 4 of his stack don’t even apply to PalWorld. This dude forgot to think it through before recording.
Pokemon uses turn based combat and Palworld does action combat. How can the AI, Behaviors, and Engine be copied? I honestly can't believe no one has pointed out that Palworld is basically just Modded Ark Pokemon.
Yep the game is way more ARK than pokemon, especially with the towers and how ARK also has the same types of towers with bosses inside them. The only thing pulled from pokemon really is the capturing aspect + monster design and even then its just influenced heavily but not copied.
(Most) People only look at the most memorable visual aspects usually the characters/creatures.
@@danyool777 why don't i remember ark having bosses in the tower? i thought it was just a terminal to summon and teleport you into the boss arena.
@@danyool777 Capturing monster, battling with captured monsters and used way of monster design weren't invented in Pokemon games.
We've seen the penguin and elephant on the ark....
that last thing you said. about setting a standard. so basically palworld is the equal but opposite of baldurs gate 3, for bg devs complained about setting the standard for effort too high and for palworld too low.
Palworld set it too low? The game is enjoyable and solid gameplay, it’s in early access and it feels better to play than most triple games on day one
@@jh23rangers71 never said the complaint made sense. in both cases it's just envy, wah wah it's not fair whining.
@@jh23rangers71 The Game can be enjoyable and have solid gameplay and is better than triple a games, but have a shady background to it. I am not saying it does, but don't kid yourself that a fun game can't be easy to make, reskin with some slight changes and then better stuff added on top. The shadiness is that 75-85% that he showed, being straight converted over or copied, rather than only 45% or under, which then sets the bar of development too low. Baldur's Gate 3 on the other hand, was seen as too much because of the sheer amount of choice and interactions available in the game and scale/scope of the whole thing, making the bar for development too high.
Now, do I agree with this? not really, although what I do think is it'd wrong for bigger, more well known studios to do a 'Palworld' and for smaller, less well known studios(like indies for example) to do a 'Baldur's Gate 3'. Like imo, I feel what he described is passable for a new, unknown developer/studio, but once they are known, they should move their bar of development higher, and raise their standards of development, if they did do what Mort said that is.
He forgot to mention that Palworld used UE5. Craftopia used Unity. Zelda used Nintendo Engine. Pokemon used Gamefreak Engine. So there are no copy-paste here. They have to build from ground-up on UE5, which Mort said is okay to do as long as there are no copy-paste.
Copy Paste bad!
Anyone that has written any serious code: 👀
@@KeytarArgonian I tried so hard to write every line of code by myself, I never use AI to generate some codes for me (they weren't that useful since most thing I searched for is way beyond their docs). However, the day that all search engine exists gone at the same time would be the day that I give up calling myself anything close to a developers LOL.
yea Palworld is using the same art-style for their monsters thats about it..
This guy has been in game dev for 19 years. How does he not know this? I wish he would elaborate on the copy paste. Like they copy by rewriting it? I don't understand why the game dev thinks they somehow had the code. Honestly the game system looks way more like ark. But even then, did they pay for the code or hack the code to copy it. If they hacked it, obviously they will be sued, else, I don't really see the problem with palworld
@@JoshuaPack He does know he just didn't state it. Just because someone didn't state something super obvious in the video does not mean he doesn't know it
One huge difference between Pals and Pokémon is that Pals don’t evolve. In my opinion I have a huge problem with the idea that Nintendo/Pokémon act like they have a monopoly on cutsie vaguely anime animals. Things like Magicarp, Mareep, Rattata, etc. are literally just fuckin real animals that are slightly cartooned. Iterating noticeably on that design is almost impossible if you don’t want to make some really weird specially made take on a fish, sheep or rat. Now the second I see a clip of someone catching a Pal that looks like MewTwo, Alakazam, or Jynx I’ll start to cast some judgement.
There's a Mewtwo clone in the game files but they thankfully didn't include it
they did use some obvious ones like the eevee, mantini and goodra clones.
they should've tweaked these designs harder than just doing pokemon fusions like the online creator.
the more original designs are far better, they should've stayed there.
fanmade pokemon look less like existing pokemon than most palworld creatures.
Most fanmade pokemon have been better than the actual Pokémon for years now. Each gen comes with worse and worse designs. @@juuchanIRL
its really funny to me that the reality of palworld vs pokemon is actually that Gamefreak Devs and Employees openly tweeted on the release week that they enjoy playing it and are happy it came out and also addressed that they got several notifications send towards their PR department and Lawyers, and asked to stop it since there's nothing to investigate. Sadly the tweets are japanese and thus not really used in the western media. But ye.. its funny to me :3 GF likes the game an the designs and enjoys the competition openly, atleast some of their Devs and Partners. @@juuchanIRL
@@juuchanIRLmantine is just a manta ray, a clone of reality. lol
Even when people think about their ideal game, it's very common to see people saying "the ideal game would be this game X, but with systems from game Y, art from game Z, etc."
Very good point you have makemmde
Motion Capture suits are not cheaper to use in general. They are cheaper to use for producing the same quality of result. Motion Capture has its own hurdles, especially because the end results are super dense data blobs which you then still have to cleanup and use and you also have to somehow trim down a bit because dense data == more storage. Not to mention you also have to account for other things in the overall sequence, like animation of props(you can't have realistic motion on humans but non realistic low "res" animation in everything else in a realistic game). It's not a cheat code. On the other hand, to get this level of quality in motions(and especially secondary motions which give a feel of natural motion) by hand authored animation, you need a lot of people with very good if not top notch skills and a lot of time.
Pfft you think games care about storage space? Then why is every AA or AAA game 40-60-80-100-120-140 GB? I remember games used to be 8. 20 GB at the most. Hell, some GameCube games were in Mb. No major studio cares about how much storage their game takes, that's why COD Modern warfare is over 100 GB for so little actual content. In their mind you can just go buy more storage space.
@@Kratos-eg7ez They do, because their source assets are in TBs. If they didn't care, you'd be buying storage units not storage drives. The point is to pick your battles. Unfortunately if you want great visual fidelity, you can't skimp out on textures. And the more you blow up your data the less easy it is to handle them all in runtime. You can have a lot of space on disk, you can't have a lot of space in memory and cache. Which is why they care a lot about how much everything is, otherwise it'd be impossible to make anything work with resource streaming. On the other hand, if you have a game that can last you 500h of exploration and spans a great deal of space, then it's obviously not easy to compress a lot, especially if you target great visual fidelity. And games that used to be 8GB had nowhere near the graphics we see today or the content. If you don't care about that, fine, but it's very expected.
mortal kombat was not motion captured though .... just photos we called it digitizing back in the day... just scan in photos basically
bruh come back when your loading off tape... lol acting like your an OG@@Kratos-eg7ez
@@vasili1207 I never mentioned MK or old tech like that. I’m talking about mocap suits, be it using reflective markers or inertial sensors and what else have you.
As for MK I’d venture a guess they also had to go through some hoops due to memory issues thinking about the types of consoles and arcades that existed back then with their finite memory and space.
Craftopia their previous game did not use to be open world, they had templates for several biome types (islands) and portals to travel between the dimensions.
Craftopia also had "Pal" capture from the get go, so Palworld is more or less just the refined result on the work on Craftopia.
The Glider design in Palworld is just a copy of the glider in Craftopia before the glider in Craftopia was redesigned.
incorrect, craftopia was at first islands, then it was reworked to open world, 95% of craftopia systems are literally copy pasted, they literally only upgraded graphics and changed assets, everything is literally the same. It's like when Ark changed assets and made atlas
you just said what he said....@@patodonald4902
the game is drastically different@@patodonald4902
@@patodonald4902 Automation is fundamentaly different, and while you could capture creatures and humans in Craftopia they only really worked in machines (and that was jank as fuck, far worse than palworld). They added a pet system later on but very much refined it in Palworld. Gunplay was complete ass and improved significantly, the gearing and crafting system is entirely different.
They have been very vocal over the years about craftopia being their test project for what would eventually become Palworld, that's why Craftopia went into hiatus for years once they started working on Palworld.
@@patodonald4902 craftopia actually has more focus on combat and combat systems such as classes , skill trees , skills and more weapom types.
It actually is more my cup of tea than pal world but they didnt have the familiar thing for people to latch on to (pokemon). So palworld is a smart move on their part.
The irony of the lead dev on a auto chess clone, who formerly worked on a dota clone, calling out this type of behavior is not lost on me. Palworld is a lot less like Pokemon than the former two games I've mention are to their cloned games. Honestly, even some of the pal vs pokemon comparisons circulating online are reaches at the best of time. There is a reason Nintendo hasn't made a legal case against PalWorld, and thats because they know, the arguments and examples people make online would not hold up in a court of law.
exactly, he maybe should take a look at dota underlords & dota auto chess which came way before tft and they "copied" alot from them for their "new" game
The dev is not saying it’s illegal. He actually implies that it’s not illegal by acknowledging how common it is especially in mobile games. But he is saying that it can be dangerous for the future of game design. Because if the people that are copy or even just look like they’re copying are getting rewarded then more will try to do the same. Which may lead to a world where companies that did the initial work my stop doing it because it costs more than it’s worth.
The irony is despite the strong elements that it definitely uses from both Pokemon and BoTW it plays nothing like either of them. Whereas League plays exactly like DOTA, just easier and faster. And the auto chess clone is even worse in terms of changing very little of the formula.
But he has been copying for over 10 years.. How can he be warning us about what he is actively doing. @@jteazy777
Just because Nitendo can't sue them doesn't mean they're not 'reskinning' parts in their games. Not to say they did, innocent until proven guilty, but, there are ways to get around things. An obvious example of this is Apple and their 'updated policies' for Europe ( be it the charging cord or the apple store changes ). It could be because they copied the system from many games that Nitendo can't make a case about but again, just because it's legal doesn't mean it's good.
I think the thing that the dev doesn't quite adress is that palworld didn't just "yoink" all the groundwork from pokemon. Palworld is not using the same engine, it's not using the same level art (I mean there are probably more polygons in a single frame of palworld than there are in all of scarlet/violet), it's not using the same level design, it's not using the same characters although this is probably the first point where we can see some major inspirations, Behaviors are different, Enemy AI is different... Basically everything is different, except the conceptual world of "pokemon".
Palworld went "what if we took the core concept of pokemon and we took out the arbitrary moral rules and made it more like a sandbox game where you're free to do whatever the fuck you want". And then they went and they made all of that essentially from scratch. Even if some of the designs are similar they still made the new designs. "Pokemon has a yellow mouse so we need a yellow mouse" and then they MADE a yellow mouse.
They're trying to complain copyright on a game that did everything to avoid copyright issues.
i correct you, they have yellow mini cat. A think gamefreak owns idea and consept of pikachu same way disney owned miki mouse.
@@islamsalimzhanov4399to be precise and to the point of OP, gamefreak owns the idea of Pikachu, who is a yellow mouse (with specific red spots here and specific black mark here, and is specifically named pikachu), but gamefreak does not own the idea of a yellow mouse.
@@talkingtakotaco8611after some thoughts yeah i agree with you. I coud also add that the names itself also under intelectual property like you can't use pikachu and some others(not all, i think there is list of them).
My idea was that if palwords tryed to copy(even in legal way) maskots as pikachu, nintendo would be much agressive.
Works at Riot games which basically yoinked Dota.
I think I understand his point, while there's a silver-lining to all of it and that shifts depending on the person.
He's for innovation and efficient re-use of your own work to produce more good product,
in contrast to people using other's work, incentivising those that created to not create but do the same, becoming the standard practice.
Albeit, his fear of the consequences of that is similar to the extreme of the other, where companies will re-use almost every asset and push clones.
At least that's my view of the matter.
The BoTW discovery noise in palworld is not even REMOTELY the same. The only similarity is the instrument.
-A guy with 600 hours in BotW
Aside the point, one sound effect is not the same thing as the engine, system, game design, characters, etc.
Thanks BoTW guy for being based and having sense
@@LuxiBelle engine? you mean ue4 which a lot of games are made with ?
@@LuxiBelle I think engine really isn't worth mentioning as besides various triple A specific engines, people just almost always use Unity or Unreal (with some exceptions, especially on older styles of games). I'm not even sure why the dev here mentioned they could have used the same engine as I don't believe Nintendo let's people do that unless they also just use a public engine which I highly doubt.
@@DigiDawg2 I absolutely loved BoTW and was actually kinda let down by TotK a bit. I expected Nintendo to fix a lot of the story complications and make it more replayable, after breaking through the honeymoon phase, it just isn’t as replayable in my mind. Especially without any master mode, trials, or similarly fun DLC.
At what point has everything been done already? They took some of the best ideas across a few different franchises and made their own thing. Having sunk a ton of hours into palworld, it reminds me of Conan Exiles and Ark more than anything. Its a breathe of fresh air.
100% palworld is much closer in resemblance to ark than any Pokémon game (I've not played Conan so I can't compare them). Digimon is still the closest thing I've seen in resemblance to Pokémon and as far as I know, they have never battled it out in court and they both co-exist just fine. I hope this is the last asmond video on the matter because there's nothing left to say to convince the 0.0001% who are throwing a tantrum.
@@jBiz91as someone that has played both ark and Conan yea it's just those mashed together with cute monsters in place of dinos or other people
@@jBiz91 Digimon is in no way derived from Pokémon. Thats why theres no case to be made at all. Pokémon doesnt invent monster taming. You can actually argue Pokemon could get more heat from dragon quest for their Gen 1s.
To put it simply, Pokemon is about capturing slaves while Digimon is about raising a friend.
Everyone talking bout Pokémon when 80% of palworld is just Ark 😂
I dunno about 80%, besides the engrams and boss towers I find it hard to see other comparisons in regards to ARK. Without dino taming Ark would just be another generic survival game. I see a lot of Fortnite in some of the character deign and animations though.
And that took inspiration from Minecraft which stole the whole concept from another game which was probably inspired by something else.
Nobody has a 100% original idea.
Ikr it's way more Ark than it is pokemon when it comes to gameplay.
@@trialzeez8742 The entire technology tree and player stat point gain on level up are highly reminiscent of Ark. Saddle crafting for pals and needing to feed them is just like dino taming in Ark. Egg Hatching is just a more refined version of Ark's janky egg hatching system. Even the way progression is handled in the tech trees is *very* similar to the progression layout in Ark.
@@Dragon_Slayer_Ornstein You missed the point bud but you also aren't wrong either.
"You just keep repackaging the same slop over and over until idiots buy it."
I didn't realize we were talking about Pokémon.
How long did it take for them to become third person "sandbox open world". I remember playing digimon cyber sleuth way before pokemon drop the top down view.
the funny this is even Digimon carried its success over from a super viral pocket toy that at that time was revolutionary, it was a little egg, it had a creature in the egg, and if you were able to nurture this egg and help it survive it would hatch, it was the Tamagotchi. The tiny pocket creature started there to my knowledge.
Digimon funded by the same people
and the anime came out at around the same time.
it couldnt copy pokemon bevause of the development time (it was also very different in execution)
the name dragged it down though.
I had a digimon device from the digimon season two. The one with the armor eggs. Shit was dope. Takes me back.
Every Digimon game, except maybe DW1, is based on the idea of another game not owned by Bandai. And that's coming from some who likes Digimon more than Pokemon, despite the Banette in my profile pic. Now some of the games vary a bit on how much they change things up from what they were based on, like the Rumble Arena games, and then others were a bit more similar, like DW4 vs. PSO.
As for Digimon itself, it was at least developed by the same company that made the Tamagotchi, as an alternative virtual pet for boys. And despite the claims of avid Pokemon fans, Akihiro Yokoi the father of Tamagotchi's and thus Digimon, came up with the idea of Tamagotchi's in 1995, with out any knowledge of Pokemon being in development. Pokemon just released their first games to the public before the Tamagotchi was ready for release.
@@AhranMaoDante who is the investor one big family connected
The crux of being a software developer (which I have been for over 20 years) is not doing something that someone has already done, usually through looking up online templates and incorporating it into your work. It's also important to note that developers post these templates online in order to make this process easier for those that follow. I don't really see a substantial difference here, with the major upsides being the same - the less time you spend recreating the wheel, the more time you have to be innovative and create new pieces that achieve something not seen before (and then template it for others to use)
Yeah, that doesn't really work if the code wasn't intended to be openly shared for re-use though. If I spend a year writing a complicated piece of software to sell as a product, I don't want someone else coming in, hitting crl+c, ctl+v, changing the app name and then selling it as their own at half price out from under me.
Now apply the same logic to games & game assets.
Palworld is like doing a cover song in music.
@@fabcastel4035 If you use others' assets without permission, it's illegal and is basically theft. However, I don't understand why this logic should be applied given that there is no proof the game in question actually did it. If it did, then yeah they should be punished. Do we have any evidence they did?
@@oliverman6168 yeah no. Palworld is taking 3 different genres and blending it together successfully. it used assets, yes. It tried to emulate certain things about other games *just* differently enough to not be copy and paste but the blending of the genres is what makes the game good and it is what the devs are being rewarded for doing. No one would pay attention to palworld if it was a straight up clone or cover song. it does something that genuinely has not been done before. it does so, so much better than the lead developer in the genre (creature catcher) has done. it genuinely has put in more effort and creativity than gamefreak has done in the last 20 years combined. If it is a cover song, it is one that is better than the original.
@andreyh2944 The issue I see here is people arguing in favor of this being done, whether Palworld actually did it or not. They're saying it wasn't done but if it was that would be good too...
I love watching twitter people implode as I play this game for hours.
Yeah the game was fun already but the company making it emotionally hurt terminally online people every time I play it is just that cherry on top that completes the perfect bite.
I get to play a fun game while upsetting Twitter freaks? Win-win!!!
Kinda how I felt about Hogwarts when it came out 🤣
As pokemon fans that have played gen3 to scarlet I enjoyed palword
I do hope game freak wake from this they're too comfortable fr their old success
That's what I call double entertainment
idk why everyone says the large tree is copied from Elden Ring, it's just a trope from norse mythology.
I'm fairly certain Asmongold just says it sarcastically, that because X is used in a game, X can't be in any other game following. (worldtree in elden ring, birds in pokemon, etc.)
Tell me it would still be there without recent "big tree background" games like valheim and elden ring though?
It's whatever, who cares, but palworld IS a Frankenstein copy/paste 😂.
This applies to music production too, taking shortcuts like they are talking about. You can save templates and every time you load a new project you can have certain instruments and auxiliary channels preloaded with your plug-ins. Hell the song is pretty much already mixed. If you use some of the same sounds and all of your songs. Saves a ton of time.
you basically described most pop music happening right now. especially in kpop. you can literally tell who produced a song because of a signature "sound" they produce.
I think Palword get together many mechanics that we have been asking for in may games, because make do things with the same resources that make improve and level up in the game. Your base is a real base not just a house that you put decorative things inside, big games developer are mad because Palworld is a such good game lol
This is actually insane
They're attacking indie devs now
And he worked for riot?
How clueless can you be
By that same token his entire company was 100% illegal
@@RobotronSage Like he said in the video using concepts and ideas is fine (as long as you build the game yourself). But copying actual code, models, skins, cut scenes etc. is a slippery slope to reward IF (big if) that has happened.
Ironic, that he brings up reskins, but when talking about TFT, it's somehow not mentioned at all and he talks about it like he and his team came up with everything by themselves.
League as a whole is a reskin of the WC3's DotA and TFT itself is pretty much just a reskin of AutoChess.
But I guess it's simply: "Rules for thee but not for me." when it comes to taking stuff from other developers.
He did mention it tho. And what you're comparing it to is people making a game off of a concept not copy pasting it , neither league or tft were a 1 to 1 copy of the original
Edit: a lot of people replied saying stuff about palword so let me clear it up idgaf about the game nor was i comparing tft and league to it
@@ahabb9294he has 0 evidence to claim palworld copies anything more than his team copied auto chess other than his feelings.
Despite the fact you could make the exact same argument for auto chess.
@@ahabb9294 The biggest evidence that people can bring up against palworld is individual creature bodyparts when designing monsters to be cute/cool/memorable generally involves some common tropes such as big eyes or a stylized art style.
I'd be more on board with them if they claimed its an Arc Survival evolved rip off than a pokemon clone.
It's probably in his employment contract that he's not allowed to mention Autochess publicly. Riot is a cult. They literally used to ask potential employees what they thought of Richard Lewis as an interview question and if you said he was a good journalist Riot would not hire you. They are INSANE.
@@ahabb9294 So Palworld somehow copy pasted the whole game but RIOT didn't? Where's the difference here because I don't see it.
Is it the fact that RIOT had to code the game before basically copying the core gameplay idea of DotA/AutoChess/CS:Go+Overwatch? Because I'm sure Palworld also had to do that.
Is it the fact that RIOT changed the character/hero designs more before copying how they work?
Also which game did Palworld copy past from, Ark? Pokemon? Some other survival or creature collection game? How can it be a copy of all of them at the same time, without being something new or original?
**Mentions TFT using Riot characters and animations**
**Doesn't mention being "inspired" by DotA Autochess**
to be fair, at that point he did already say he thinks getting inspired is fine and talked at length about it in the street fighter example. He was talking about using riot characters and animations because those were actually copy-pasted into TFT. They very likely didn't copy-paste any source code form autochess.
you missed the point where they're inspired and did the whole programming instead of copying the code.
The Riot Director is worried that copying each other's game will lead to less innovation, but I think that in market where there's no innovation, whoever gets to do it first will be rewarded even if they are copied afterwards
Riot - Worries about copying
Also Riot - Everything's a copied reskin nothing original
it's exactly what is happening in china, IP protection doesn't exist here so companies are all copying each other and are rewarded on the execution instead of the idea
Haven't people been doing that for years with unreal engine?
I don't understand how you guys can watch the whole video and came out with the wrong idea of what Mort is saying.
He is not worried about games copying each other that leads to less innovation, he already demonstrated how copying actually leads to people to innovate more on the idea.
All he was pushing is "Get inspired all you want but do the work that you need to" , copy this model 98% however you want, but model it yourself.
Actual braindead youtube comment section holymoly.
@@Sumi-e1999 watch from 22:35 onwards, he gave two different points of view in this video
As a point of accuracy, EQ and Ultima Online have ancestry to text based "MUD's" (multi-user dungeons) not really to each other. "MUSH/MOO" and other terms were also used to describe similar games. Many of these would see active online concurrencies from 30-200, which was really significant for the time. Development on EQ started in 96, while the release of UO was in 97. Both of which were simplifications on various ideas from MUDs. Incidentally, there are tons of great ideas from MUDS that still haven't seen the light of day in modern gaming.
Designing Virtual Worlds is a great book laying out the history of MUDs and chastising modern (for whenever it was released) MMOs for copying the most braindead type of them and smothering out all the others.
EQ was basically a MUD with a 3d skin made apparent by how it dealt with commands and everything. Not saying that as a bad thing in any way, just as a point to the evolution of these things and how most games are just iterations on previous ideas. I played it a lot back in the day.
MUDs in the 90s could exceed 1000 players online easily. The one I played on AOL easily went over 1000 players at all times. Some of the original people are still there to this day.
Tempted to redownlet Mudlet and the mapper and play the game I uaed to, but I forgot my loging and would have to spend another 6 weeks script-rolling for perfect starting attributes on the MUD I used to play, and wouldn't have my quadbladed axe of something something. 😂
"11 yrs Former Nintendo dev" says a lot about it. For all that pizza pile, Palworld may only have been "inspired" on Pokemon on Pal design, pal spheres and the 5 towers, that's it. It is a survival game where the "pokemons" will automatize your base most of times, the Pal battle is not the goal but the means.
plus Nintendo dev on what games specifically💀??
Also, the pals don’t even evolve which is also a Pokémon feature. I’m glad this conversation is happening because little by little we’re all realizing that it’s barely Pokémon with guns now 💀
@@cutejustice I sure wish they did though.
@@cutejustice Yeah, it's pretty obvious after just 20 minutes to an hour playing the game. It's basically an easier valheim with worker management mechanics, characters that are heavily derivative of Pokemon, and various bits that are heavily derivative from Breath of the Wild.
The idea that half the game has just been directly ripped off from somewhere else is pretty ridiculous simply because of just how much of a mishmash of different games Palworld is.
He says the behaviors are copied. Really? Where in the Pokemon games do the pokemon mine rock and then go grab food from the storage building when they're hungry? It's certainly not in valheim or breath of the wild.
@@viktoriyaserebryakov2755 I agree with you there too, it's like already part way there(Look at Pengullet and Penking, they have the same work typing too(Watering/Handiwork/Transport whatever else I might have missed)
I think he is pointing out that the same company that did Palworld launched Craftopia, which was basically just Breath of the Wild combined with some Factorio. Then they took most of the Craftopia engine, put Ark and Pokemon stuff, and then released it as another game. But it works together so it's great.
They actually didn't. Craftopia uses Unity, Palworld uses Unreal, that' why alot of mechanics in Craftopia didn't make it over and mechanics in the Palworld trailer aren't in the game as of now. They've had to do a ground up rebuild of the game mid development. There's a youtuber who translated a Dev diary from the pocket pair CEO and it's enlightening.
The irony of a derivative game designer, Riot, talking about how games will snowball into more effortless derivatives.
League copied WC3 Dota? Successful.
Valorant copied CSGO? Successful.
TFT copied Underlords? Successful.
Legends of Runeterra original idea? Failing, team facing layoffs.
Riot forge? Shutdown.
Hell, they even copied Blizzard's workplace harassment and somehow came out better than ever!
Yes, Valorant reminds me of the Counter-Strike Warcraft mod
@@shaheedk.3386 What a world we live in.
@@shaheedk.3386 my first thought on Legends of Runeterra trailer (which is quite faded cause it was a long time ago) was that the game were literally dota artifact but took out the "laning" stuff. But of course no one talks about it cause artifact was so bad people forgot it even existed.
difference is that Riots first employee was the guy who made parts of the DotA mod. it wasnt an entirely seperate entity that copied a game.
Dota 2 and LoL are pretty much offsprings of the same parent. LoL isnt a DotA rip-off. its a mod turned into a full game. same as Dota 2, which also has original modders working on it.
One thing that everyone seems to not realize is Japan does not have a fair use law. Palworld has been public for some years! Do you think Nintendo would just let a game to be fully created for so many years without stopping the production? Hopefully this forces Gamefreak and other big publishers to step their game up because if not more Indy titles will continue to drop gems like Palworld!
He started well but failed later in the video. If he only used his own logic from the first part of the video and applied it to pokemon x palworld situation he wouldn't have the same conclusions. Logic error. I'm game programmer and even though I don't like playing palworld, I think it's a good game and there's nothing wrong with what they did. Almost every element of the game is completely different from any pokemon games. They could maybe try to be less obvious with the pokemon inspiration by for example changing the capture mechanic, and pal looks, but it's just a cherry on the top of the game. And they probably made it similiar because they are pokemon fans and wanted to show it to us. Everything else is different. It's a solid survival game with a clever use of monsters.
There's a little confusion here I would say. The point he made about Palworld was not about copying the theory of other games, it was about pulling out source files instead of building the base of the game yourself. Giving you a huge advantage over someone who is not stealing code/assets. Which is the right way to do it. That being said, to be proven it happened or not.
At this point there's too much examples to be honest. Models, sounds, effects. Even if these aren't copied ctr+c ctr+v in digital sense, they are obviously copied in general sense, they just made the same things.
What models? I heard that accusation was debunked because the guy stretched and manipulated them to make them closer matches because he hated Palworlds animal cruelty and more brutal features.
@Marrkix nothing was copy pasted directly.
Pit Fighter came out 2 years before Mortal Kombat and used motion capture from live actors.
yes it did and was created by Atari/midway, what's the point of your comment?? a developer cant steal stuff from themselves lol
@@michelsealy3782 Just that I didn't think MK was the first game to implement it. I remember Pit Fighter being out before.
fyi, they didnt use 'mocap' back then, it was just animation frames, created from live shots of an actor.
they would just record a video/or setup multiple photo shots, of actors acting out, to capture still photos (pausing vid for those frames), to edit and create sprites, that when played in sequence gives the illusion of motion.
'mocap' is used for capture motions of an actor as anchor points, to be applied to a 3d model, for ease of applying motion to the rigged model
They are not really "taking" the bottom 6 and just build the 3 top parts. They saw the bottom 6 points, liked them en thought we can build on that and re-made it from scratch. Implying that they stole\taken the bottom six is saying that a guy went into the Nintendo office with a USB stick and stole the game code... And for some reason it's cool when SF en MK does it, but if Pokémon and Palworld do it, it sets a dangerous precedence of games all becoming copies... How about autochess and TFT?
Right?! The guy spends the first half of his video implying that Palworld stole source code and reskinned it but his only proof was that things look similar.
@@tommy9565 Yea I don't understand how he made the leap that mortal combat taking street fighter's idea and pushing it further is ok but things are different in this situation. If indeed they stole the code and reskinned it sure that's not just a sketch situation it's a crime and Nintendo for sure can find out and fuck em over very hard.
I think he forgot abou that 😅😅
@@eircK He didn't say Palworld is not okay, did we even watch the same video because you seem like you watched something else
@@iko20101 Indeed I wonder too. Or are you just being anal about how he didn't say the exact words "not ok"? Cause the whole 2nd part of the video is him calling it sketch and something that he doesn't think should be the norm in game dev. In my book that qualifies for rewording as "not ok".
Mort is just saying (I think rightly from a game dev perspective) that we need to be very careful. He's not accusing Palworld of anything, he says its a very good game. But he brings up a very good point that its becoming increasingly easy to steal assets. I don't think Palworld did, too much is different. But even if they didn't some scummy company will see this success and thats the route they will go.
They surely will go after palworld but will they succeed? Rather i hope they do, look at Once Human, another pieced game which done right
I don't quite understand his standpoint where he gave example of streetfighter genre evolving into things like mortal kombat and then turn around and pretend that Palworld is all the sudden some villain that is doing the sketchy stuff of copying previous successful titles... Are we going to pretend that all these fighting games are not literally the same? There are literally no proofs that the Palworld devs "lift and shift" the assets and not "make their own"... And the example of the sound byte of discovering a new area is quite literally different if you compare it side by side even though the pitch and "feel" of them might be similar
He justifies the controversy around Palworld based on a fictive scenario that doesn’t apply to Palworld. This is intellectual dishonest.
Bro.... their UI, User Interface, is the exact same from Pokemon Arceus... like 1:1 stole it. The Pal management window IS LITERALY the Arceus Pokemon farm deposit screen. Palworld did the same as his previous game, took all of the hard worked systems from other games and implemented it into a very small creative frame. As a game developer myself i am scared shitless we are rewarding this.
I don’t understand that point of perspectives, it is like saying because fortnite got success every other game will try to emulate fortnight, which happened to some degree but we are still having incredible games from other genres , like when minecraft got real popular lots of games tried to do crafting and survival games, but did cod ,dota,LoL,overwatch,gta die? Ofc not, the only thing that kills a game is it getting emptied of content.
So, creating an original idea and putting others games ideas in it is a good thing, it is like adding a mod to your game, it only increases the fun of it.
Asmon is not paying attention and misunderstanding. The game designer makes it quite clear its okay to take systems and mechanics from other games. The issue is straight up yoinking their code/model/art as a shortcut and then maybe changing it a bit. He makes it clear that its okay if you do it yourself from scratch.
The Palworld discovery tune sounding "similar" being a note of contention just means the last 100 years of music history is suspect I guess
From what I’ve read the chime is a public asset. As in anyone can use it in their projects. Plus it’s like four notes, not exactly worth copyrightingz
Bunch of games have done that, it’s not new.
prity sure I have heard that or simmiler sound long befor botw (whihc i have not played)
Also an extremely disingenuous way of presenting an argument from the riot dev, shows the game with out the chime, then explain what “Should” happen based on the other games clip and chime, this creates a false assocation.
Thank you for mentioning Ultima Online that just made my day I have made the mistake of measuring every MMO by the open ended nature of UItima for the sheer variety of things you can do, and it has made it very hard for me to feel like anyone is truly trying harder. But the reality is after Ultima all MMO's just got more focused. I really want an action MMO to adopt the variety of Ultima Online thought.
Come check it OUTLANDS. It’s an free to play Ultima shard. Re-invented a lot of cool
Stuff and a whole new map.
I just want another MMO that recaptures the essence of WoW Classic
We all want our dream game! @@LordMuzhy
My dad played Ultima Online while I was a baby, I grew up on his lap watching him play and probably what lead to my love of Video Games especially MMO's
It was such a good game and it even has private servers running to this day, 27(?) Years later
0:50 "I'm not sorry"
He was smiling, but wasn't kidding. This is why you cannot cancel Asmon. VERY few of his streamer colleagues understand this.
A number of those mechanics you listed are even older than you are remembering, an example: the oldest knocked down and get stood back up i can remember is Wolfenstein enemy territory, but i wouldnt be surprised if its older than that
Riot Dev lecturing people on the ethics of "copying" video games..... as League, TFT, LoR, Valorant don't also heavily draw "inspiration" from popular titles around their creation.
Genres are a thing and "copying" somethings base mechanics is just creating a new genre.
Moba, Autobattler, Reverse Bullethell, Roguelike/lites, BotWlikes, Soulslikes all fundamentally aim to be very similar to the break out hit that spawned their genre.
I wish Palworld was a copy of pokemon as that would mean pokemon was actually similar to what palworld is and not a over 10 year outdated gamefranchise whose biggest innovation was now also selling 2 full price DLCs per generation that is still split into 2 versions.
He says taking inspiration is not an issue especially if it leads to innovation and fun gameplay. The issue is where things are taken directly. He specifically mentions the opening sequence being almost identical to botw and one of the sound effects being in his words "basically the same".
Tft is balanced every week almost and they refresh the game once every 4 months or 3
@@watataenjoyer And does your point brought anything to the table here? I don't get it.
This is just proving Asmond gold right. Game devs will make what people pay money for and don't care if a bunch of people don't like it if it makes enough money
water is wet
ikr@@2thezaza
that's why he "lays GOLDen eggs, coz he's a goose."
The god damn irony. Man copies Drodo Studios' DotA Auto Chess and sells the idea to Riot to make exactly the thing he's describing. Systems Design, Enemy AI, Behaviors, Progression, everything copied but then re-skinned with League of Legends characters.
24:18 this is exactly how he got into the position he is in now. I can't stop laughing.
Deodorant studios auto chess and TFT are not remotely the same auto chess... have you play them both?
@Necrospunk and you can say the same thing to valve auto chess "underlord" they made their own without the original creator
25:00 - People saying Arceus obviously did not play Arceus...
There is no enemy "ai" in Arceus beyond Turn-based combat.
Did you play it? When you battle Pokemon Nobles, they attack you until you can create an opening. Other pokemon will attack you in the open world too when you aren't in the turn-based combat. That's why there is a dodge roll.
Do automotive engineers need to reinvent the V8 every time they design a new car?
I mean from what this guy is saying g yes 😂
What he's saying is that is not the same making your own V8 engine based on another one's design, to take out the engine from another car, put it inside a different body work and call it Your own to then sell it
Except that no one did that here.
I want Ford to sue since other manufacturers didn't use different shapes for tires. I want to see Chevy cars rolling in on triangles.
I think one of the funniest things I've seen about this whole pal world controversy with pokemon is that people saying that they are taking the likeness of pokemon.. which is absurd since everything has been turned to a pokemon at this point already atm as actual pokemon we have furniture, buildings, food, animals turned into pokemon just because they look similar don't mean jack shit when it comes to these designs
And the premise of the design is literally and obviously a tongue-in-cheek vibe. yet haters think the devs SHOULD serious about it XD Lovander is just a more lewd version of Salazzle for example.
It's also very hard to create massively original designs off of real-world creatures. It's just been done too many times. There are only so many ways you can design a small penguin creature before it starts looking same-y.
I also don't think people understand that Pokemon own THEIR unique designs. They do not own the concept of "fire fox creature" or "water penguin"
@@valeereon9954exactly, while there are a few Pals that look a little too close to some Pokémon it’d be as simple as just redesigning them a little to look distinct. (Which for some of the pals would be a good thing because not all of them look amazing.)
@@valeereon9954I have to disagree with the the first part. I had a similar discussion about this a few days ago with Lamball, Sheepmon, Feeop and Woolie, with the speeh-like monsters.
The thing is there is not a limited number of " designs" of a real life creature can be, just look at other monster capture game and series.
One thing we need to think about now, is a lot of game basics are now assets, like the mining animation in Palworld feels like every other Unreal game, because they use the same basic animation. And coding has gotten a lot simpler, there isn't a need to write your game in assembly, like pokemon on the gameboy., or trying to squeeze out more frames in the Doom render code. Animations are still a bit of an issue, since a lot of characters have a different mesh structure, but there are only so many ways for a dog like creature to walk.
Saying assembly is not a fair comparison as that was LOONG ago a game would be made in that. Programming is easier though with improvements in ide tools and a lot of established algorithms and methodologies to handle things.
Only for player. Pals have their own animation for type of creature(like all dear cut tree same way) but also some pals have uniq mining/cutting animation.
@@islamsalimzhanov4399 That is basically just one initial animation per pal and there is not that many activities.
I think that what the game-dev is saying that it doesnt matter if you take inspiration, or even try to do things the same as the original. His point is that you should try and do that, cause inspiration is good, just without copying 1-1 the game from the ground-up( engine, art, sounds, systems etc) cause that sets the bar at stealing someone else's work, not just his idea.
I do find it odd that a riot developer is bringing up these points when their whole catalogue of games is copying other games and improving upon them which isn't a bad thing in my opinion, just seems a tad bit hypocritical.
Dota > LoL system design, level design, NPC ai
CS > valorant level design , progression, system design
Auto chess > team fight tactics I am unfamiliar with this title but am sure there are stark similarities
Again I think these are all great games was just a bit surprised by his final viewpoint.
Not only that, his example was Craftopia and showing how similar it is to Palworld, which is a game from the same developer? So they used their own assets?? So what?? He spent the first half of the video talking about how thats ok since you did the original work. Maybe he meant to also show the similarities to Zelda BOW but still that game is much different than Palworld.
Yea, and if you look at League's original characters it launched with, and compare them to original dota characters... Its literally more blatant ripoff than palworld.
@@-Cesh- i guess he didn't actually do in-depth research about the topic and saw that people say that palworld took asset from craftopia and never actually looked up who made the games.
@@LetsPlayAceCraft"original dota characters" you mean 1:1 copies of Warcraft 3 characters?
Dota was a mod for warcraft 3, many of the characters were from that game, as you would expect. What is your point?@@zackolot
They wrapped up a bunch of good ideas and concepts from other games and made their own. Playing the game you realize that they seemed to have built the games coding themselves (or maybe bought the code from someone) but it's definitely not Nintendo's coding or any game that I can think of. The animations and movement behaviors from the characters and Pals don't seem familiar to me from any other game.
Craftopia actually reminded me more of Genshin Impact in that scene just by the scenery and the city off in the distance. It looks like the city of Mondstadt. Perhaps this company is choosing a bunch of games and mashing them into one?
My issue with people complaining is that... What Pokemon game could they have stolen the chunk from? The Pals look like Pokemon, and Pokemon look like Dragon Quest monsters. The human imagination can only go so far and using real life creatures and adding your own take is the easiest route. After playing Palworld the only correlation is the Pal appearances (which are quite the stretch sometimes) and "me throw ball at monster and monster mine."
Every game has a feel to it and Palworld feels like Palworld when I play it. Climb walls? Cool. You can do that in Conan. Fly on beasts? Many games allow you to do it. Guns? America.
The sequence of exiting a crypt and showing you the world should be detached from BOTW by now and simply be defined as a tactic developers use to say "Hey, this is what we have to offer you. Welcome to the game!"
.........The noise when you enter a new zone do be kinda sus though ngl
Except even the BOTW 'section', where you leave a subterranean structure only to be met with an extensive vista... you mean the opening of Fallout 3?
The fact that these people take basic concepts and pretend the version that hit them the most invented it just shows how bad their take is.
Craftopia is like, everything they could manage to cram into a game. And all of it feels half assed. When I saw palworld I originally assumed he just wanted Pokémon but couldn't shove it into craftopia without starting over.
Regarding the noise, what about all the games copying the clearly use similar sound when picking up coins, a similar sound when picking up items, a similar sound when using an item, etc.
Saying "this sounds similar" is the equivalent of saying "this generic cola really reminds me of coca-cola". Yeah no s**t that the generic cola is going to try tasting like one of the most popular cola brands.
Actually the vista view was first done in one of the Square Enix Tomb Raider Games - was amazing.
they're talking about the specific cutscene with the specific trigger with the specific pan and all that shit. it's a copied shot.
@@ViddyOJames i'm aware. It's the same.
@@Mentioum You're not aware because you're "actually"ing something that isn't accurate at all to say.
@@ViddyOJames This whole video is literally about copying a concept Vs copying 1 for 1 and how the whole thing is basically a grey area for the most part when it comes to derivations. The concept of crawling out of an intro sequence to a vista that makes the world feel large and ready to explore is not new.
If you have an issue with the 'actually' I really am not bothered. The comment above stands with or without it. If you want an IMO at the end then that's all good too 😅 as that's what all UA-cam comments are. Opinion.
So the dev takes 25 minutes saying that copying is ok if you actually do the hard work to make the copy, and then ad a spin, then at the very end he claims that Palworld took source code from Nintendo?
Copying an idea is not the same as copying the entire world (and potentially code) from breath of the wild and injecting your own character models. Not saying that's what palworld did but that's what I took from what this guy was saying.
Yea this dev starts off strong. But the second he starts his speculation it takes a nose dive. Even from his experience working in the industry he takes inspiration from other games and makes his own derivatives. He’s lead director of TFT which started as a direct clone of Dota Auto chess. Riot didn’t copy the code from dota but the games were almost identical in the beginning.
Pal world has done the same. Developed its own code on a different engine from breath of the wild. But this dev is speculating that large chunks of code were just taken and reskinned for palworld.
No he didnt say that palworld took the source code from nintendo. Watch it again with your brain turned on :)
He SPECULATES that they may have literally taken parts from BOTW, because there are things that are way too eerily similar. Too similar that it wouldve been easier to just make it slightly different ( if you made it yourself).
When he started saying sketcch I wanted to spit my drink out. Dota was a mod of a blizzard game which LoL copied and kill all other copies besides the OG Dota 2. ALL BR was a improved copy of h1Z1. Valorant is cartoon csgo @@TheShadowSlayer007
its a projection of what he did with TFT and Dota Auto chess and whats Riot games development plan that's been in effect and planned future copies of other genres. Its safe to say the free market is winning when it comes to monster capture games @@RomGomLP
The thing is, it doesn’t matter if the stuff is copied, it matters if it’s yoinked as in literally reused (so the code itself is taken)
That was a pretty poor take by mortdog.
His definition of “yoinked” could apply to all FPS games, fighting games and the auto battlers, etc.
They clearly built everything themselves as the history is there to see in craftopia. They had a middling game that they iterated upon with more Pokémon style capture mechanics which then took off. There is no aspect of this game that was yoinked by his original definition and yet he sums up suggesting they have actually done some yoinking…
Mort doesn’t address any of this but just goes “ummm kinda bad”.
all i can think about when they brought up mobile games is the game that just straight up is useing palworlds trailers as there own... no changes just straight up palworlds trailer playing and a link to the app store.
I think I got aa good example of the "clone game" effect. I just tried Enshrouded, at first I was thinking it was like Valheim mostly, with a different story, but I think there is a bit more to it. But yeah if you have played Valheim you can jump into Enshrouded really easily. Its the same effect they were explaining. Like someone once said "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."
I think people on this level really need to be careful if they are going to accuse people of IP theft. They are much more easy to target for a defamation lawsuit than some guy on Twitter.
Something about him including the engine in the copy-paste block triggers me. Craftopia is made in Unity, if I remember right, Zelda definitely isn't. This would mean to even do a 1:1 clone you would have to put in too much effort to get it right. I like how just earlier he mentioned they took things from League to make TFT but then a game starting from scratch trying to copy another game is somehow wrong when the effort involved was same or more.
The part with TFT was crazy to me. Season 1 of TFT was a reskin of DOTA's auto chess. Of course he didn't mention that and only mentioned League.
He meant in general, for example palworld was made with unreal engine. Can you think of how many games were made with unreal engine?
palworld isn't even made in unity. it was switched to ue4 mid development so that point of his was wrong from the start. the dude was like do as i say not as i do, i can copy and reuse things to make game but you shouldn't do it.
@@126644 These days it's easier to say what isn't made with Unreal Engine. I also don't understand what you mean here because just using the same engine as another game doesn't mean you are copying either.
@onesilverleaf6781 you're technically reusing part of the games codebase from a different game that was also made in unreal to do everything 100% from scratch would take an unnecessary amount of time. So even though pocket pair technically used code they didn't write themselves, its not really an issue because Epic games public licensed that code for public use.
Palworld has done the best thing possible, took all the best things we love and mashed them together in their own way, if anything they’ve been more imaginative than most game studios now who just rehash games year after year or add pointless skins for loads of money
7:44 Mortal Kombat isn't motion capture at all though; it's pixilation.
They straight up took photos/videos of actors in costumes and created animated sprites with them.
More games should do that. I miss FMV games.
OG Prince of Persia on the PC used motion capture in the 80s as well lol
@@tubephr34ksarcasm? Or do you actually believe that?
@@sthsth2846 Yes but technically it's called rotoscoping (tracing over live footage)
Yes, Asmon is 1000% wrong here. The first MK game that used motion capture was one of the PS games, the one with a MOCAP secret character. The first game to use motion capture was Virtua Fighter, I think. If it wasn't first, it was second or third but certainly wasn't MK.
What makes it even funnier is the style of taking photos frame by frame and making sprites also didn't originate from MK. Many arcade games in the late 80s already did this. Pit Fighter, which predates MK by 2-3 years is a fantastic example. I don't mean to totally dog on him here but it's kinda annoying to see him say that in full confidence when he's waaaaaaay off the mark.
“Why would I get mad about people that steal my golden eggs whenever I’m the Goose.” Bars
I think the Craftopia and Zelda comparison is interesting, because Craftopia didn't launch as an open world game, they reworked it halfway through Early Access. Seems unlikely that they built it on existing Nintendo tech, but I can imagine they hired a few ex-Nintendo devs and they had a big impact on its rework.
Tbt the start of craftopia he showed I was thinking he was going to say palworld reused it
There's no way Craftopia was built on "Nintendo tech," it was made with Unity that anyone can download. Even you can if you want to and make a Zelda clone if you wished.
you got a source of them hiring ex-Nintendo devs? or are you just making it up?
@@elmertsai1312 I said imagine, its pure speculation on my part. But whilst the gaming industry is quite large, the vast majority of people in it have worked at a very small number of companies at one time or another due to sheer volume of people they recruit (EA, Activision, Ubisoft, Sony, MS, Nintendo, etc). As Pocket Pair is a Japanese company, it wouldn't be a massive leap to assume Nintendo has had a big influence on them, and possible (given how large Nintendo is), that one or two of their people have previous experience at Nintendo.
Note: Palworld was made by a small devteam over the course of about 4 year's. They had no experience but wanted to make a game and had by chance found someone with experience working at a convenience store, as far as I know, there's less than 5 people at Pocket Pair.
This is from the Interview with Pocketpair on Tokyo TV. Google it but there isn't really a translation.
I mean only thing similar in palworld to pokemon is the concept of catching And fighting with creatures
Debatable but some patterns lol
“Why would I get mad when someone steals my golden eggs when I’m the goose.” Best quote ever
Literally🔥🔥🔥
by Asmongoldengoose
Well to be fair, I imagine a goose would be mad if you steal its eggs.
@@talkingtakotaco8611that's exactly the point 😁
@@TheGrzB well if thats the point asmons point made no damm sense, yeah your the goose its still your eggs anyone would be madd, why would you be madd if someone was stealing your money, when you have a money press i guess.
Rich coming from riot with league tft and valo is basically dota autochess and csgo
😂😂 Yeah
So, very popular games that that proves that people don't care if the game "is a copy", because the end result is good, and yes pulling really stretch saying league is good
Dude league came from a warcraft 3 mod created by ice frog called DOTA (Defense of the Ancients)
Watched the original.
Talking about plagiarism - VERY ironic coming from Riot dev, who are famous for stealing whole game systems from FoTMs - TFT being the most egregious one and the one he worked on)))
Apparently his work was NOT creating clone of Autochess, otherwise I don't realise how he got on such a high moral ground...
How is this rich? Innovation doesn’t mean remaking the wheel, most of the time innovation is making the wheel rounder
The amount of time and money to create something competitive from the ground up is quite insane nowadays.
But I think that with AI and UE5 we might be getting to a new chapter of game making where the new top layers can go a lot closer to the bottom ones.
AI is basicaly useless nowadays tho, we can only hope for the future.
Hearing Asmon talk about Mortal Kombat was another reminder of how old I'm getting. I remember playing a game in the arcade called Pit Fighter that used real people before Mortal Kombat came out.
Same here! I remember that game on my local arcade! OMG 😂
I also was a fighter in the pit back in the day and it used digitized graphics
The exact same reason why WB making a patent for their nemesis mechanic ensuring no one legally gets to replicate or improve on it. Wanting to protect your ideas from others to replicate or improve on them is what kills progress.
I'm still waiting for someone to challenge that. WB doesn't have a leg to stand on.
stolen sounds ? Thats a massive non sense because you can litreally go and buy thousands of sounds in one library for 80 bucks ...
When KanColle took off, people were wondering if there will be like a localization for it. It never happened. People made knock offs of it. One was Azur Lane. And now it filled in to what KanColle couldn't and offered things that KanColle wouldn't.
I think that the part about being worried about being rewarded for doing so little, and that those that put in the work originally will stop because they wont feel rewarded themselves is an interesting topic. But...doesn't every previous era feel the same way. Old cartoons were hand drawn frame by frame, then new ways came in to better automate the process. Websites used to be nothing but handwritten/typed code with the only way of visually seeing what you've created was to deploy it after each new line or change in code. Games development software has come a long way too. And every previous contractor that used these old methods probably felt the same way as the portrayed pokemon employee's. I feel like this is a step forward. You shouldn't have to reinvent math every time you're given a math question, just grab a calculator like everyone else and be efficient. Using vectors, coding, engine from another game is no different from using a hammer or drill on a construction site. And on a side note, about all the "its a pokemon game with guns", if you go break down all the features and mechanics in this game, its almost nothing like pokemon. If anything its ARK:Survival Evolved but automated and with catchable cartoon monsters instead of tameable dinosaurs/creatures. Palworld although buggy, has ticked so many boxes and much like Baldurs Gate has taken a existing genre to a completely new level. Sounds like Nintendo is just mad that they'll be held to a higher standard now.
Absolutely zero chance they have code from nintendo in this. Those game run on different engines even, while this is un UE5. It's ironic that he sets up the entire first half of the argument saying it's fine if you do the work yourself to make a clone, and then out of nowhere, suspects they outright copied large chunks directly from some other games. It's not even slightly likely. They 100% took a lot of design directly from other games shamelessly, like the way area names are revealed and the jingle that plays, those are clearly a case of "I'll just make what I saw in BotW" but they are also clearly different sounds. They did a lot of what those street fighter clones did, they took heavy "inspiration" and built a game from scratch using that.
I get that saying "if we encourage this we're going to see more of it happening more often" but at least in the case of Pokemon I'm sorry but that's a good thing. Nintendo and Gamefreak haven't provided a good pokemon title that deserves the sales it gets in ages. If more people start working on that formula and give me a better product, as a fan of the series I see that as a win.
The other indie not-pokemon titles are nowhere near as enjoyable as pal world. So more people going after the Legends Arceus formula but refined is a W for me
"if we encourage this we're going to see more of it happening more often" is a statement valid since 3 decades ago. I'm surprised Palworld gets this flak when that is not new at all. It simply gets traction because it got successful and haters a malding hard XD
hes not saying that its a bad thing that well get spinoffs / refined versions / copies of games and ideas.
Hes saying that if people just keep literally copying games 1:1, there will be nothing to copy anymore very soon, and wed just have a huge soup of shit getting more mediocre by the minute.
He obviously said its a good thing to copy something and make your own thing out of it and make it better, why would that suddenly not be true anymore ?
@@RomGomLP Because that's ALREADY the case almost a decade now, but he implies that after the success of Palworld which makes his point SUS. Palworld ain't the catalyst for the flooding of sloppy copy games in the market, that already happens AND we as consumers have a say on that anyway. Don't like it? don't buy it SIMPLE FIX
This is something I can get behind
@@D3adCl0wn To a point, yes I see your point. But im pretty sure mort is talking about an even worse version. The mobile scpace reskinning meta coming to PC and worse.
Im pretty sure a gamedev with 19 years of experience knows about the current state of pc gaming
the main argument is, it's okay to copy things of games, if you create it as a copy (basically if i open an engine and code mario's movement and enemies and maybe add a twist and change the skin). But it's bad if you just LITERALLY copy and paste (so if I just open mario's code base, assets etcetc, and control C+ control V and it's in my game)
exactly, sad that more people didnt understand this.
That's a law. Western empire gets in front of every line thanks to it, you might have hear of COPY RIGHT law? You don't know the law because thanks to Fair Use you don't HAVE to follow a law if Google pays your bills and you operate legal piracy OUTSIDE of capitalism. Sell a pirated game? "Evil". ift assets for "transformative" yt videos? Your right. Under literally THE BIGGEST corporation.
You literally have children harvest coffee, and arms of one of the same 5 megacorporations in USA, reskin the branding.
You're gonna call people "idiots" for buying "the same game" even if its their first ever. When that rebranding LITERALLY just exists, so you wouldn't FEEL like soviet colonies that you are for buying a blank slate whitelabel instances of the SAME consumer item.
The other funny thing that's not mentioned by most people either is, most pokemon are not copyrighted, and most are not eligible to be copyrighted do to the fact they don't posses enough distinct features. As someone who has published through these systems, I can tell you that the process has you send the image and list each feature that makes up a logo or character, a lot of times you can't do it for the reasons mentioned above.
Sad that more people don't understand there isn't a single instance of ctrl+c ctrl+v in Palworld. Hence why it's "misinformation"
Yeah, it seems to me that people are saying that gamefreak own the copyright to the concept of merging 2 or 3 creatures and objects xD. It's so nonsensical to me.
I think what Mort is trying to say is threefold:
1. Idea’s not copyright protected, you can’t say someone stole your idea, and it’s a good thing people build games on one idea cuz it makes it better every time. I think most people would agree to this.
2. You gotta build your own foundation though. That’s his main response to Asmon, that while gamers only care about if the game’s good or not, it doesn’t mean that “game’s good” is the only metric to evaluate a game. It’s an important one but not the only one, because if it is the only one then you don’t know what that would do to the industry, he used the $25 horse from WoW I believe as a snowball demonstration. If we reward games that just take massive chunk of unoriginal developed contents and implement them into the game, sure Pal might be super fun and it hits the fun metric with flying colour but then devs are going to follow suit and the end result years later might not be what we want. So we need to be careful what we are wishing for. He’s based this argument under his speculation that Pal did stole some of the assets from BotW and others, but of course it is unproven. I personally cannot comment on this as I have not played Palworld, as a complete outsider, does it seem like Pal took inspiration from other titles, of course, but did they copy and paste? IDK. However, I do think what Mort is trying to remind us is also important, if there ever is a game that is massively similar to an existing one, but it is super fun, we should still question and criticize it for the similarities, instead of just basking in the fun. We’ve been doing that though, like League to Dota, like Genshin to BotW, like TFT to Autochess. Maybe Palworld sort of blown things out of proportion and is in Mort’s eye a heavy offender (copied a very massive chunk that’s unprecedented) which prompted him to say this.
3. AI doesn’t matter… yet.
But Palworld devs still made the work themselves, right?
Its not like they had inside access to BoTW or Pokemon code
Yes. They are still learning how to develop games. With the exception on one person, they knew nothing when they started working on Crafttopia. Now, they are starting to do better.
I think others reasons for using similar systems, like the ark tech tree is its easy to pick up and understand, the advantage of using a known good progression system is easy access as people can interact with it with out having to learn something new. This allows the new aspects of the game easier to use as they aren't loaded down with a ton of new systems to learn making it easier to enjoy and have fun from the start.
yeah, there is a reason almost ALL of fps game have a pretty same control scheme, WASD to move, ctrl to crouch, shift to run/walk, right click to aim.
I don't see how this guy can say it's ok for Riot to almost 1:1 copy DotA map layout but it's "weird" for Craftopia to copy a part of BotW. He did not even provide evidence for it either. Like people say, nobody cares if the game is good. But the way this dev draws the line in the sand seems arbitary and highly subjective.
He's not saying they "Yoinked" it from Nintendo, he's saying the "Yoinked" it from their own game, Craftopia (even if he doesn't realise it). Having never looked at it before, he's pretty well on the money for the opening world shot. Basically what Dark Souls or any other franchise does.
i dont think that's quite true (assuming i understood your statement correctly). the opening sequence (the staircase into cliff vista into camp shot) in palworld is discernably different from craftopia, whereas craftopia vs. botw is almost equivalent. im pretty sure the point he's trying to make is that it's not a "rip-off" but literally a "rip" of the source code because "it's normally hard, but if you have the source + reskinning, it's easy... and that looked pretty easy" (@ 20:50).
from my perspective, it seems like he's challenging craftopia stealing botw code; and, by association, there's probably stolen stuff in palworld. personally, i disagree with him mostly for the reason, as others point out, that "if nintendo knows, nintendo will kill (in court)," but i'm too unknowledgeable on the subject of whatever japanese copyright laws and/or generative AI stuff to have a proper opinion here. I'm also pretty sure all three games on topic are using different engines but i'm not sure how easy it would be to translate between engines.
@flufflulYT well he knows it well since he yoinked tft from autochess.. lol
Riot Dev reluctantly skipping the part where he cloned Dota Autochess to create TFT.
Riot Dev not skipping the part where Riot cloned Dota to create lol.
Didn't use their engine, mechanics, character...they used the genre to make a better one
By his own logic they never directly copy pasted things and therefore it's fine. He thinks craftopia did
While I agree about being cautious about rewarding copying systems across, the dev has made a fantastic product that combined aspects of multiple games in a wonderful way and it must have been tough to tie everything together cohesively. Its still innovation in the monster tamer genre that nobody else was doing and it makes so much sense. The game is fun.
I know its not the same kind of thing but there's still a bit of irony that's not lost on me seeing a Riot dev talking about taking systems from other games. As Asmongold pointed out, LoL draws from DoTA (granted the founders were originally involved in dota, however Marc Merrill literally said this about the origin of LoL: “We thought maybe we could build this sort of DOTA-style game,”), TFT launched after DoTA Underlords and Valorant draws from Counter-Strike.
That all being said, LoL has brought in its own innovations and developed in a different direction to DoTA, the same is true for TFT and Valorant. While I'm a DoTA player I think there's a place for all of these games. I MUCH prefer TFT to DoTA Underlords for example.
They even adeed invoker to lol so yeah... It is very ironic 😂
the thing with game industry nearly every game stole some parts of older game and made better products of same consept. Artis and devs somehow think that games equal to art gallery where inspiration is looked more strictly.
@@Azurialis no they didnt...they were inspired it is completey different than just copying invoker
@@iko20101 i know, but by his own logic that would be "problematic" as well
Prince of Persia was way before MK. PoP was 1989 MK was 1992.
>Mechner used an animation technique called rotoscoping, with which he used footage to animate the characters' sprites and movements. To create the protagonist's platforming motions, Mechner traced video footage of his younger brother running and jumping in white clothes.
Sierra was using Rotoscoping in there click adventure games as well.
The fact that he says game devs follow the money actually really bothers me, thats the real reason why games are the same nowadays. You should want to make a game because you know it to have good ideas that people will enjoy to play, not to make money.
He is stating facts, not his opinion
It should be both. As a developer you WANT to make money so you can keep making games while also still feeding yourself and/or family and keep a roof over your head. But you should also want to make games that people WANT to play and ALSO has fresh ideas or at least revitalizing stale genres/ideas in interesting ways. The stagnation of the industry when it used to be an intense 'wild west' of ideas and genres is disheartening. Though many companies died during that mad 'gold rush' of ideas and innovation too despite it all.
So devs should eat lentils for the rest fo their life?
Money makes the world go round, if oyu like it or not. If you want a game that is what the dev/you wants, just get a few hundred million dollars.
Wait, wasn't there one dev who did that? Something with star people or so? From a guy from Wing Commander? Who said he would release a all-beating better Wing Commander game by 2014?