true that individualism is part of western mind and maybe incompatible with Buddhism. But what about all those Tibetan monks, lamas etc. that are affected by Narcissistic personality disorder, that abuse their western students emotionally, financially and even sexually? Isn't this self-cherishing at its highest peek? Soooo .... clinging to the self is not only a western mindset.
There will always be rotten eggs in every religion. Also, it can swing the opposite way. Someone who is very kind, soft spoken, serene all the time, can also be a covert narcissist looking to make a name and is afraid of losing students so caters to THEIR egos and ultimately do not bring them closer to liberation. It’s up to the student to really examine the guru before commitment and to know what they’re signing up for before committing to a teacher.
@@lingy74 the question was about compatibility of Tantra and Western mentality, and Rinpoché only pointed out self-cherishing. For personal experience I can tell that covert narcissistic lamas are very numerous. It is precisely their training that makes them so. It could well be that we overestimate Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche's understanding of westerners, and thus his rather shallow answer. Nothing wrong with it. I'm a European, not young, and have studied and practiced Vajrayana extensively. I came to the conclusion that western culture is incompatible with lamaism, not with tantra, IMHO. I agree that a student has a big responsibility and has to choose carefully a guru that is right for her/him. Basically it has to do with laziness on the student side, thinking that a guru can save her/him some of the hard work of studying and meditating before even thinking of looking for a guru or accepting an offer to be guided (it happens often, and it should be a red flag!!).
Here is what Dzongsar Kheyntse Rinpoche preached in the past: - Lamaism is not Buddhism, - Guru cannot save you And if the gurus you met are covert naarcisstic lamas you didnt chose your guru well. And finally if it is "precisely their training that makes them so" you are probably in a NKT like cult @@namkhatsogyal
@@namkhatsogyal there is no tantra without guru. Western - or any so called modern day practitioners - need more coddling, which many teachers just don’t have the capacity for and the students get hurt because maybe they are covert narcs too. When you say their training makes them covert narcissists? What do you actually mean? Genuinely curious what led you to that conclusion. A Western student may need to feel special more than a Tibetan, while a Tibetan can see their guru once in a while, have perfect devotion and become great tantric practitioners because of the built in sense of reverence and devotion. From a different perspective, Lamaism, while offensive to Western sensibilities, is also what enables tantra to reach so many people, and arguably what helped keep the tantric teachings in tact through lineage. One can’t really say this part is bad, this is good etc. It’s all just causes and conditions. As for lamas being narcissists or not, if you devotion is perfect, it won’t hinder YOUR liberation as long as you practice authentic dharma. So much of what we think others to be is projection. Ultimately, there is no narcissist, no empath, no self to hurt, no self to be hurt. I’m sure there are narcs, but it’s also kind of in vogue to accuse someone of being a narc the moment they ignore us and the word gets bandied around way too much. Perhaps there is too much Protestant residue in students thinking their lama can save them ala Jesus Christ. It’s not like that.
Yes notion of self and its deconstruction is hardest thing to do
for West mind . Rinpoche genius observation.
Thank you 🌑☀️ ❤🌹
I love your teaching. So perfect.
true that individualism is part of western mind and maybe incompatible with Buddhism. But what about all those Tibetan monks, lamas etc. that are affected by Narcissistic personality disorder, that abuse their western students emotionally, financially and even sexually? Isn't this self-cherishing at its highest peek?
Soooo .... clinging to the self is not only a western mindset.
There will always be rotten eggs in every religion. Also, it can swing the opposite way. Someone who is very kind, soft spoken, serene all the time, can also be a covert narcissist looking to make a name and is afraid of losing students so caters to THEIR egos and ultimately do not bring them closer to liberation. It’s up to the student to really examine the guru before commitment and to know what they’re signing up for before committing to a teacher.
@@lingy74 the question was about compatibility of Tantra and Western mentality, and Rinpoché only pointed out self-cherishing. For personal experience I can tell that covert narcissistic lamas are very numerous. It is precisely their training that makes them so.
It could well be that we overestimate Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche's understanding of westerners, and thus his rather shallow answer. Nothing wrong with it. I'm a European, not young, and have studied and practiced Vajrayana extensively. I came to the conclusion that western culture is incompatible with lamaism, not with tantra, IMHO.
I agree that a student has a big responsibility and has to choose carefully a guru that is right for her/him. Basically it has to do with laziness on the student side, thinking that a guru can save her/him some of the hard work of studying and meditating before even thinking of looking for a guru or accepting an offer to be guided (it happens often, and it should be a red flag!!).
Here is what Dzongsar Kheyntse Rinpoche preached in the past:
- Lamaism is not Buddhism,
- Guru cannot save you
And if the gurus you met are covert naarcisstic lamas you didnt chose your guru well.
And finally if it is "precisely their training that makes them so" you are probably in a NKT like cult
@@namkhatsogyal
@@namkhatsogyal there is no tantra without guru. Western - or any so called modern day practitioners - need more coddling, which many teachers just don’t have the capacity for and the students get hurt because maybe they are covert narcs too.
When you say their training makes them covert narcissists? What do you actually mean? Genuinely curious what led you to that conclusion. A Western student may need to feel special more than a Tibetan, while a Tibetan can see their guru once in a while, have perfect devotion and become great tantric practitioners because of the built in sense of reverence and devotion.
From a different perspective, Lamaism, while offensive to Western sensibilities, is also what enables tantra to reach so many people, and arguably what helped keep the tantric teachings in tact through lineage. One can’t really say this part is bad, this is good etc. It’s all just causes and conditions.
As for lamas being narcissists or not, if you devotion is perfect, it won’t hinder YOUR liberation as long as you practice authentic dharma. So much of what we think others to be is projection. Ultimately, there is no narcissist, no empath, no self to hurt, no self to be hurt. I’m sure there are narcs, but it’s also kind of in vogue to accuse someone of being a narc the moment they ignore us and the word gets bandied around way too much.
Perhaps there is too much Protestant residue in students thinking their lama can save them ala Jesus Christ. It’s not like that.
❤
🙏🏿🙏🙏🏻
Probably from a longer talk
🌸🌺🪷☸️🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Try hindu tantra...kashmir shavism. 😂
There is nothing called Western "culture".