In the early 80s I was put in the "Gifted" program in school. Somewhere around 86' they decided I should not be in the gifted program, due to low academic performance, and I probably didn't. I struggled with topics I found boring and excelled at topics I loved. I haven't thought much about those things for a number of years. My wife and I have a conversation about my childhood every once in a while. I'm 50, it would have been exceptional for a neurodivergent person to have been diagnosed back then. I, as of yet not been diagnosed as autistic. I share some of the same traits as some of the creators I watch do. What I do know is I am different and that is ok. I can fail and it is finally ok.
My experience after being placed in the "Gifted" program in the 90's was much the same! It's shocking how little seems to have changed in spite of all of us speaking up about our experiences for so long.
Quinn. Oh my word. I was only whinging about this very topic very recently to a primary school teacher. I think it is just such a damaging retohric. I myself was told I was 'gifted' and 'exceptional' and that I would be a 'high flyer'. My (unrecognised autistic) father has been repeatedly referred to a genius. What good did it actually do? Just made us feel worse when we didn't and couldn't achieve what was expected of us. And what is expected from someone gifted...is so so much more than what is expected from everyone else. We just have further to fall into our pit of wasted potential. So yes agreed - gifts will always come with anti-gifts. I am so happy to have found someone who talks so much sense. Thank you Quinn.
Well put. I can say from the experience that the label didn't do anything but to put distance between me and my peers. If anything it probably prevented me from finding the more useful diagnostic labels of Autistic and ADHD that could have led to more targeted actions that could have supported me. In my school it essentially meant that we did well on standardized tests which is a skill that's served very little purpose in my real life. Then, when I struggled later in life I was "not living up to my potential" while I was completely overwhelmed in the busy classroom, bullied by my peers, and uninterested in the busy work I was being given.
We were segregated from the rest of the class. There were 4 of us. No one was diagnosed back then as it was the mid 70's. We were just told that we were ahead of the rest of the class. We were sent to the library where, occasionally, the principal would come and get us to do fun or interesting things and others where we spent hours without any direction at all. It felt a lot like we were being punished for being quick at our work. I spent a lot of time wondering what the other kids were learning up in the classroom while we sat, ignored, closed up in the library. Overall, not a great experience as it felt completely purposeless and I was very eager to learn (I still am!). Thank you for another great and relatable video. BTW I enjoy both styles of video presentation that you are using as I feel I learn something new every time.
I get that feeling, though the library was my place of refuge from the social pressures of school. However, another boy and I were sent out of math class to work at our own pace. We had no supervision, but were expected to turn in the written work of even problems daily of our progress through the textbooks. It became a competition on who could finish what level of math before the other. I always wonder what happened to that boy, who I now know has ADHD, probably AuDHD, like myself.
I think that the language used is secondary to the support given. I was labelled gifted but there was no further support. They could have labelled me all kinds of good or bad things if it had come with some help.
In my region, you'd hear MGM🦁, Mentally Gifted Minds. But the system didn't know what to do with them, besides segregate so they wouldn't endure so much bullying. They had the same teacher as the kids with Downs. They went to the zoo a lot.
@@randalalansmith9883 For me it was literally one meeting once in primary school, it was at the same meeting that they also said I needed special needs support for my inability to write...
I didn’t need to be singled out more as a child, than i allready was. I needed support and to have my burdens made smaller, not to have them increase while being pushed. I needed to be seen an valued for my personality traits, not my abilities. I needed to be loved for being me, not for achievements or how invissible i could become. I consider my ‘gift’ to be introspection and reflection, and thanks to that, i beat depression, bettered myself, and would today consider myself ‘succesfull’ on my own terms. I still would prefer knowing how to ask for help - the one thing I still can’t. I am only succesfull in my own terms, not in my family expectations of me. They look down on my steady job in a bookstore, because they can’t use it to win any bragging rights. And I am secretly happy about that. My small revenge. ‘Giftednes’ ruined my childhood.
The TV show Malcom In The Middle was particularly based on how labeling someone gifted can lead to social ostracization. I think a lot of Aspies could relate to Malcom, I know I sure did while growing up.
Thank you Quinn, As a younger man it was important to me that others knew how intelligent I was. It wasn't because I wanted to be better than anyone else, but because I needed to feel that I had a place that wasn't at the bottom of the pile. With not being married, social, interested in sports or current affairs this limited my input, so I tried to make up for it in my own way. It took me a while to realise that my efforts only made things worse. Someone bought me a pin badge ' When you're as great as I am, it's hard to be humble.' Seeing it written down brought it home to me. These days I keep my gob shut and try to keep my opinions to myself and may help out if asked, and for that, I get more respect. Hope you don't mind, but I'd like a coffee and a hobnob next week. Cheers. 🧔 👍
Thank you for the video. I appreciate that you moved the microphone away from your face when drinking your cuppa. I suspect this was to avoid triggering those with misophonia. Thank you.
this reminds me of some feelings and thoughts i've had lately about dignity. as autistic people we often end up needing to diminish our own worth, feelings, desires etc. because the way we demand to be respected can be taken as offensive. i say "taken as" offensive deliberately, because personally it's never my intention and i feel wronged when people interpret me demanding things as offensive. especially as a woman in my early 20s who has always been quiet and afraid of asking for things and is just now starting to learn to stand up for myself - why do i have to mitigate my demands, be polite and say "please" and "thank you" and "if it's not too much trouble could you maybe...?" as if i wasn't in the right for asking for it. it's humiliating. i'm tired of pretending like my needs are only wants, pretending like i don't believe i deserve whatever i'm asking for. it makes me feel icky and i hate that i have to do it, but it feels like sometimes it's the only way to get through to people without starting a fight, and in the end you can't change how the things you say are received, no matter the intention. what do you think about striking the balance between not diminishing yourself but also staying polite and considering the other person's feelings?
I would continue to say please and thank you. It's just polite to do so. I think this is something everyone struggles with nd and nt. It's just harder for nd, because accomodations are often different then what people would expect. But this is something to a defree everyone struggles with their entire lifes. How do I get my needs met without walking over others and their needs, learning boundaries, learning the difference between boundaries and rules ect. Something that is also complicated, people are used to a dynamic they have with others. Once this is set in stone it can be hard to change it. That's why it's sometimes easier to set boundaries and communicate needs with new people than to change already existing dynamics. In short: it's complicated.
@maydee3000 I 100% agree. It bothers me that even though this is an important discussion to have, the first response from many people is that autistic people need to shrink themselves. That we need to conform to what the NTs conception of how the world works. Also, the discussions I've seen kind of implies that you should discount all the things that are good about yourself so the rest of the world can continue to see you as lesser. I know that Autistamatic mentioned some of these things in the video but I feel like the importance of these points is heavily dismissed in some of these arguments.
@@danika9411I personally hate politeness for politeness sake. I'm ADHD, so it's not that I don't know social rituals, I just can't stand them. The unnecessary artifice just drives my brain crazy. That doesn't mean I'm rude (or seen as rude), only maybe a bit too straightforward sometimes. I might not be polite, but I'm nice. I won't bother with social flourishes, but I'll be constantly careful about how my words might make you feel. Some people might feel entitled to politeness, but I think most just want to not have their feelings hurt. I don't know how to give advice on how to avoid that as an autistic person, but I'd absolutely start by how phrasing affects the meaning and the emotional reactions people have.
@@IanUniackevery true. What I do to avoid shrinking myself is that I refuse to change my ADHD style of communication but find ways within it to avoid potential issues. For example: I love sharing things, trivia, stories, cool things I learned. I do it because I found those things enriching and want you to experience that feeling. But sadly some people thought I was bragging or making things about me. My core behavior hasn't changed, but now I make it clear that my focus is not on me or even in what I'm saying, it's in them. In the feelings I want them to experience. Another thing that helps a lot is giving them ways to feel agency without actually disrupting you. People are less prone to feel like I'm bragging once I ask what topics or things they enjoy the most so I can make sure that they enjoy what I'm saying. My way of socializing won't change regardless of what they pick, but it will feel less imposed, even if they never actually ask me to talk about something else. Just having the option explicitly available is enough to make them view things in a different light.
The gifted program was for smart kids. Most of the people in the gifted program. Were havers of autism without the intellectual disability, but didnt realize it was autism until they had kids.
I think it showed some insight that my parents made sure we didn't take any IQ tests, ignored "gifted" programs, and later ignored Mensa and similar organizations, etc. My cousins who had taken IQ tests and/or were in the gifted programs (and later joined Mensa) were insufferable. Even so, I was always being compared to my supposed potential. But I think my brothers got the worst side of it when they were compared to me by my previous teachers and were told ridiculous things (like that they were disappointments...) I still feal arrogant when I describe myself as smart at what I feal are appropriate times, e.g. when meeting a new Dr, counselor, getting my autism diagnosis or being there for diagnoses of my autistic grandchildren. On the other hand having my granddaughter in the 2E programs at school was a very good thing overall. It probably helps that (like me) she doesn't care about what other people think of her.
Technialy I stored high enough in IQ test to get into mensa and for a quite long time I wanted to join mensa becaue I was really curious ahout how people I would meet there would be, since inteligence measurment and reaserching highly inteligent people are my special interests, but now I'm geniuely afraid of them 😬
In the early '90s i was bumped up a grade. There was one kid in the "gifted" program, and i felt slighted i too wasn't in that program. I think he felt the same way that i got to move up a grade and he didn't. He was quite haughty about his gifted status and, being observant, i saw how the others looked depressed by his boasting. I don't want people to be saddened by my intelligence, so i learned never to flaunt it unless it was to help others, which i did. When my daughter was evaluated and determined to have an IQ of 135 at 10, instilling humble intelligence without dumbing yourself down was something i was successful in achieving. She was put into the gifted program, and immediately wanted out. Apart from it drawing attention she didn't want, it was a bunch of stupid, pointless projects. Unfortunately, the school is under the impression gifted kids have a hard time when moving up a grade. My wife and i think they're too dumb to understand that when her and i were moved up a grade, we already didn't fit in. When you're that far ahead, you will never fit in.
Yup, I have baggage with the word from my time in my school's program during the 80s-90s. Every neuro-divergent friend I have seems to have been given the label during their own childhood and none like it much.
Quinn, “Young, Gifted & Lost” is just on a whole other level. The quality of content you’re creating is absolutely mind-blowing. I mean, 22 minutes felt like five-I was completely immersed! You have this incredible way of explaining things, weaving in cultural, intellectual, and psychological insights alongside your personal experiences, and it all just flows so naturally. I also love your catchphrase, “I’m Quinn, and I’m autistic.” It’s such a grounding reminder of how central autistic identity is to who we are, and it’s so reassuring to hear it from you. Seeing how your brain works through your art and commentary is such a reflection of how my brain works, and it’s just so reassuring and inspiring. You’re a master of your craft, and it’s an absolute pleasure to hyperfixate on your videos. Can’t wait for the next one! Thank you so much for what you do, Quinn!
@@AutistamaticDo you have a normal heart rate for example if you get upset or experience fear or are surprised does your heart rate go up or stay neutral? I'm asking this because people with ASPD or Psychopathy have lower resting heart rates and they rarely go up is this the same for autistic people?
This hit home and stirred up childhood memories from the 1970's. This topic comes up from time to time in my own head and brings up a lot of resentment and anger. I was told at a young age that I was "gifted" and that I would be part of the "movers and shakers", "an innovator", etc. I'm 58 and finally got my autism diagnosis a few months ago. I'm a washed up man living on disability since my late 30's, not a mover or shaker and now I'm finally understanding why thanks to content providers such as yourself and the other people of the community (other viewers) who comment on this content of neurodivergency. I rarely ever comment on videos in general, I'll think about commenting then avoid it because of a fear of engagement (how autism affects me most of the time). Thank you for your contribution to this community and something to talk about in my next therapy session.
I was pre-'gifted' designation in school, but oh the 'potential' I had and failed to live up to! My cringiest words are 'potential' and 'If only ...' A few years ago my mother gave me all my old report cards. Reading them was so emotional and I cried for the young innocent I was being burdened with so many expectations, and being given no credit for the sheer will it took to endure existing. I was about 10 when I first started fantasizing about being dead. For my mother, her word of burden was 'precocious' (1940-50's England). In her world it was the worst thing to be, especially if you're female. Your discussion didn't include the burden of responsibility that parents had to bear for how kids turned out and showed up. The blank slate theory of newborns was pretty popular in my parent's child rearing years. 'Gifted' was probably a relief for parents who felt the social burden, of 'You created this, there for it's your fault' scenarios. Even without autism applied to my children, (it was ADHD diagnoses), I lower the expectations on my children's outcomes, and often said to other adults and teachers, '"I don't care if they end up digging ditches, as long as they're good people" in defense of the spikey skill sets my own children displayed and I was expected to answer for. "I see where they got it from!" was one of my favourite compliments, Lol.
I had an Elementary school teacher bully me on class over being "gifted..." It ruined my life in ways that I don't really need to describe to "those who know." All because she was incredulous that I could perfectly recall the entirety of a third grade text, the beginning of which she used as a free writing prompt, and to me just writing the original text was The Truth and I couldn't write anything steering away from it...
Thanks Quinn. I was never labeled as ‘gifted’, but in working class Australia in the 60s, there was always the expectation from my family and school that I was different because I was smart. The pressure was awful. I felt my differences, but didn’t ever feel very clever. Just a feeling of shell shock from the constant pressure of expectations and overwhelm. I can understand your feelings of the word gifted. I also think ‘potential’ is pretty awful too.
I was in Elementary school in the 90's and got placed in a "Gifted and Talented" class. I didn't realize what it was in the moment so this was extremely informative. Thank you Quinn.
I was labeled "gifted" early in grade school and at first I loved it because I was instantly singled out for bullying in 2 schools now and the "gifted" class had maybe 10 students, most of them older than I was {k-8grade, so 5-13} so it was a safe place. My parents were just like "ok we knew you were smart, they say really smart. So I guess you better have straight As from now on then." It's like I was suddenly on my own - I was gifted so somehow that meant I could get myself up and to school. I didn't need help with homework or tests. Worse, all of a sudden I was supposed to be "above being bullied" somehow. It was always "oh, they're jealous because you're so smart and you're going to go to a fancy college and be successful while have to work for a living. You should be the bigger person and ignore it, or understand their pain or blah blah blah." While very few people were being diagnosed Autistic then, never mind girls like me, "gifted" became the reason/excuse for all my clearly Autistic signs/struggles. "Awww, she's just a little weird/shy/strange/sensitive/withdrawn... because she's too smart. The curse of genius, right?!" So, as a little 6 or 7 year old girl, I learned to mask my intelligence in front of my peers, make excuses for the poor ways others treated me, be too independent, hide my struggles and feel intense shame for them. It was like "Oh, look, we've discovered you're bright. Now, go do something amazing." But I didn't do anything amazing, I was having major burnout by 7th grade, which I masked because "what've you got to be stressed/worn out about? All you do is go to school. It's not like you do anything." Well, I mean I'm like 10 and y'all keep treating me like I'm supposed to be an amalgamation of Einstein and Jung and Da Vinci, wtf?
That sounded like Public Image's first single, hahaha. It's funny, I was bullied in school and teachers said, oh, yes, but some day they will be like a great entrepeneur boss who buillies their colleagues or sth
Even if you're not put into a "gifted" program, if your teachers or other adults make you feel like you're exceptionally intelligent - (or you see your spikes in skills that you don't even have to try for) and then you run into struggles that *are in the troughs, it's brutal. Like slamming face first into a brick wall.
Whether you be gifted or not, being giving is always a noble pursuit! I also don’t use it, except for word plays. I don’t find words offensive, however I find it particularly unhelpful! The effect it has on assumptions is very big! CHOOSE YOUR WORDS CAREFULLY! Even better, don’t burden someone with a STATE adjective, gift (lol) them with a recognition of their ACTION verbs! Ok thx Quinn you are such a Giving individual!!! Thank you for all your efforts and skillful means!!! (Oops just broke my own rule lol, you have the OPTION but not the OBLIGATION of taking this Giving adjective! Results may vary!)
It depends on the schools definition of "gifted". In the schools I went to "gifted" only meant high productivity and emotionaly self sufficient , so rich kids who didn't have traumatic childhoods or disability, not that the kids were any more intelligent. I hated the separation because I would have loved the specialized classes, but my skills were so spikey I was often stuck in the lower tracks bored as hell, with teachers expecting me to teach the others in the classroom, because they knew the work was below my abilities. I did well in testing but, but homework was impossible.
I love your points. I hadn't really thought about it but my dad's work was itinerant so I moved between schools a lot. I was REALLY lucky that at my first school they identified my situation and gave me specialised help to accelerate (in maths). However I definitely experienced what you say at other schools and it really bothered me. I think I probably never thought about it the way you do because my brain was anchored to "the system works" because of my earliest experience.
Yup, Quinn. Right on the money. At least for our generation. My father is a retired teacher. I was assessed as a child in grades 2 and 3. When my Dad saw my IQ score he very carefully hid it from me, the other teachers and refused people who wanted to do things like 'accelerate' (move to a higher grade) or put me in other gifted programs. He realized that my social/physical development was behind enough that would have become a disaster. In fact, I decided to repeat Grade 6 despite passing because my deficits. (Ironically enough Math was one of them. I say Ironic because I have a Master's in Physics.) What follows is not victim mentality but documented cases. My Primary and Secondary education were heavily marked by bullying, ostracization, genuine attempts on my life, depression, anxiety, malicious accusations, bad luck and good grades. In the Physics department, most of the people there (student and prof alike) were some flavor of gifted. I could be myself and most people were 'OK' with it. Except the Department Head who cut off my funding and proclaimed that what I was working on (Astronomy -- Black Holes and High Mass X-ray Binaries) wasn't *real* science because there was no lab component. My social deficits keep me out of the workforce and education now. I'm mostly a recluse. Gotta take the whole package.
it's denial and cope. the whole your 'not broken! your magic! ' I feel it dismissing and that it puts the onus back on me to fix my own problems. It never resolves in me getting useful help.
Just my perspective ( as an aspie), I've honestly never heard an adult autistic person say "I am gifted"; they always say "I was in the gifted program". I think this is because people in the gifted programs, at least around the same time periods, tend to have a certain set of shared experiences we can relate to each other with. If someone announces "I am a baseball player" vs "I played baseball" I would probably sense a similar level of arrogance. And I think the general revulsion in these kind of statements was captured well once by ricky gervalis with "so fucking what"? Imagine being on a plane and the pilot passes out and someone shouts over the intercom "can anyone fly the plane" and you were to shout out "I am gifted". You are now obligated in some fashion to elaborate on how you being gifted means you can fly the plane, UNLESS of course you just are using it as stand in for general superiority. "Nah, but I am really good at chess" is going to probably get you thrown out plane. But here is the adjacent problem, I can not think of one thing that being "gifted" (or even saying, I have a spikey skill set), would have any relevance to in a general discussion. The autist who reacts is more likely to infodump their obsession with flight simulator or something and approach it that way, which lends itself to practical utility in the problem.
Great video as always, Quinn. I've not really come across this before, sounds like a huge amount of pressure to put on a child. Love the do the opposite of what Sheldon would do- great advice to live by 😄
I was placed in a gifted school program for one year. It was a life saver. At the same time I went to counselling. That was a stupid waste of time. I always thought that being "gifted" indicated what *kind* of person you were, like using the term neurodivergent now, and I personally love that it's one rare occasion we don't have to self deprecate.
nah, i was put in gifted classes since 2nd grade, and i still call myself that when appropriate in conversation. but i only use "gifted" in meaning that i was in the gifted program at school.
I never got diagnosed in school. Had to work it out for myself. Teachers alway thought I was smarter than I let on and was just lazy so I never got the help I actually needed. Although I can never work out if it was because the school was really bad, or if there was too many students, teachers weren't trained properly or racism - I'm cournish but grew up in wales and let me tell you it doesn't matter if you're fluent in welsh they'll always see you as english and will only want you to leave. Used to get bullied alot but my perants insisded that I ignore them. Even if I was getting beaten. I think the way schools are run leaves alot to be desired. For me, being "smart" only ever held me back. I'm told it's different now but I see there was a stabbing in my old school so I guess it hasn't changed that much. Left school with no qualifications just trauma.
Yah, the "gifted" family of compliments is something i make every attempt to avoid. It always seems to come packaged with comments about not living up to potential. I have many perennials that people are very happy I don't explore.
great video, Quinn if I remember correctly, I was labeled gifted in 2nd or 3rd grade (early 90s) and enrolled in a spanish class. one day on my way to that class, I dropped all my class stuff and had a meltdown and quit. I don't remember it ever coming up again, but maybe yhe label was on my record
In second grade, my teachers realized I was “accelerated”. The following year, in 3rd grade, I was placed in a school for such kids. We were doing up to 9th grade work. I was only there just over a year before we moved to a different city where such schools weren’t available. It’s interesting to me that this video popped up. I’ve been watching videos about gifted adults and wondering what the difference is in the way I present as autistic. Listening to Quinn, I feel like in the late 70s when we didn’t know about autism, gifted was the same thing - at least for me - by a different name. Finding out a year ago, at nearly 54 years old, that I am autistic was shocking but not surprising. I went through the feelings of upset that so many of us do about grieving a life that may have been somewhat different had we known. Though 3rd grade is a touchstone for me, I never understood it. My family certainly didn’t call me gifted or treat me differently. Today, I feel like I could swap names, gifted for autistic. Interestingly, I feel more aligned with autistic than gifted. Partly bc of the label and being humble, but bc autism is more encompassing and descriptive of my experiences. By the way, I hated the school. I cut all the time. Yes, in third grade. It was too overwhelming an environment. Too loud. Too bright with the lights. Changing of classes. And much greater expectations of me under the harsher physical environment. I was relieved to move so I could escape it. I did well academically, but inside it was killing me. Since I couldn’t speak my truth about it, I just cut school a lot. Anyway, thank you, Quinn, for the video. It helped to put a few more pieces together.
Yup, was even good enough for Mensa, which I now know is a complete joke. Thanks for explaining so well, now I know why I get called arrogant when I’m asking questions.
I was the only one in my family who was a few testing points short of Mensa. We had a family friend who was part of it and she found the people and the org snotty and awful so we all got (thankfully) turned off about joining it and it was frequently pointed out to me how I wouldn’t have qualified anyhow. Now that I’m old (65) I can reflect on all our lives and be at peace about where mine landed and see that those extra points and the highest of high iq narrative did not make their lives turn out better in the end. The shadow side of pride is shame so i was spared a portion of both w regard to the high iq rating. So touched to hear everyone’s experience in these comments. 🙏
Off the bat this reminds me of people hearing my records and saying- meaning to complement me - “ oh you have a fantastic voice! “. I have an average voice that I have trained and worked and exercised for my entire life. No one says Jimi Hendrix had “good hands”- that’s not where the musical inspiration and the skill to express it through one’s instrument is born. My speaking voice is gravely and often monotone - my singing voice isn’t a gift in that I did nothing to deserve it - it Hendrix my garden that I planted and tended w the help of countless others and opportunities I pursued. I was in the “A/P” gifted classes at school w my bestie. It provided cover for my autism and was less boring for me as far as that goes. Ok back to the video - I get stirred by the topic early in. Thx for always great content.
Meaningless. The test they gave me in grade school that SHOULD have recognized me as autistic, instead made me “gifted,” which REALLY made me look like I “wasn’t living up to my potential.” Offensive, not necessarily. Scattershot and meaningless? Definitely.
It was helpful to remind me of how easily others can perceive I have some sort of superiority complex by what I say. I have been known to blurt out agreement with facts people spoke about me that I later, after processing the conversation, considered maybe it was meant to be a compliment. So I may have come off as rude when I only agreed or said "yes, I have been told that." Sorry to everyone I may have offended over the decades because really we all have strengths and challenges, successes and failures! I was labeled "gifted" in my youth, but didn't think much of it- I was just happy my best friend was also in the group!
This video made me a bit sad. I was diagnosed with ASD as an adult, and I was put in a "Gifted Program" in school as a child, after an IQ test. And while there is probably a connection between those two things, I never saw it that way growing up. Yes I knew I was "odd," and I was certainly bullied & beaten up as an undiagnosed Autistic child going to public school, but I never saw these things as endemic to being "gifted." I saw the bullying/violence I experienced as a failing of the dominant culture, growing up in the inner city, where intelligence & "nerdiness" were reviled instead of celebrated. And when adults said I was gifted, it was a compliment & a relief to me -- like, "Oh good, at least I have THAT going for me. Whew!" (Of course I don't directly call MYSELF gifted lol. I just say "I was in the gifted program" which is a tad more demure ;) ). I'd also like to mention that not every child in the gifted program I attended was Autistic, not by a long shot. Most of them were very NT, except for a handful of us. Which is probably why I don't see a one-to-one correlation between being gifted, and being Autistic, even as I acknowledge the overlap. To me, "gifted" just means high IQ, regardless of disability or neurotype. All of that said, I very much respect Quinn's personal experience & opinion on the matter, and I'm very sorry that so many in the comments seem to also have had bad experiences being labeled "gifted" children. I too have had terrible childhood experiences, including violent bullying, unrealistic expectations, and harsh judgment. And regardless of whether it was because we were labeled "gifted," or because we are Autistic, or just because other people can be crappy, I do relate to that
I'd be disappointed in anyone having a problem with that. When it's an incoming observation from a third party, then of course it's a compliment and should be taken that way, IMO. It only becomes problematic when we say it about ourselves or, to a lesser degree, our kids. I'm glad that people recognise your strengths, whatever words they use😊
@@Autistamatic Thank you so much for your kind and nuanced reply! I'm relieved my experience isn't totally alien. And yes, it's true that no one likes a braggart, and it's a good reminder not to speak that way about oneself
13:55 I was 'honored' with "Severely Emotionally Disturbed" since I was two years old. Put into Special Ed with other 'gifted' kids, and there was no individual special care plan... It was a bunch of bullies, who suddenly find themselves to have fewer targets in a small class (target: me).
I was called "gifted" as a child. I thought to myself many times that "it's not a gift, it's a curse." The course of my life has certainly not been at the top of any career or achievement level that might be expected if the only thing you look at is a test score and compare it to income, job seniority, or other cultural expectations. I'd rather find my own place in live and be happy with it, which is where I spent most of my career. At least when I could actually focus on the work I liked rather then being expected to be a "leader." As for the term "gifted," to me it means no more or less then any other inborn characteristic like being tall, or having natural strength, or coordination, or musical talent, or exceptional eyesight, etc. It's a starting point to build something you want, not a natural superiority. You still have to put in the work to be what you want, and that's more important then any initial talents or "gifts." Now if only we as a society could do a better job of encouraging all people to learn what's best for them and to pursue those goals effectively.
You know, I was also diagnosed in 1978 at the age of 9. Like you, here in the United States I was branded as 'gifted' and was singled out by malicious people (bullies, etc) due to my difference. My diagnosis was from a psychologist who was making waves for their research into autism in the late 1970s. Much, if not most, common knowledge of autism at the time was of those who had to be institutionalized and since I was 'high functioning', basically there was nothing they could do. "No soup for you!"
Whenever i try to find any ressource how to identify a difference between austitic/Adhd and gifted the websites just keep saying "ask a professional" TELL ME YOUR SECRETS My working memory (ADHD) significantly lowered my score tho apparently ive got mostly gifted and even some incredible scores, leading me to being just under the gifted threshold so i didnt get to experience those institutions, and the high expectations put on me by others i dont think met up to my own expectations heh I dont think the label has much of a place nowadays, its misleading
I was not identified as 2e until I was diagnosed months before I started a post-graduate certificate program at the age of 40. There was a university staff member that advised me on it. She told me to quit my job and make multiple, detailed calendars. She was probably right, but quitting work and effectively making and using multiple calendars wasn’t possible given my circumstances. My allistic brother was identified as gifted as a kid. My mom later told me that she didn’t find it fair that my brother had more learning opportunities because of how he scored on an IQ test at the age of 6. It was very validating to hear that from a parent. I did feel like I was missing out. My brother did very well in school and was well liked. I was actually a stronger student in multiple subjects, but he was more consistent and had that elusive EQ (social intelligence). In my experience, being neurodivergent excluded me from GATE.
Saying anything positive about yourself (in spite of it being true) is more harshly punished than actually committing acts of selfishness or condescension, behaving with explicit arrogance. It's all about words, not facts. Most people (especially among those with Non-Autistic Spectrum Disorder) construct their reality based on the terms used, and social assumptions that we all are supposed to accept, just because. It's like that everywhere, but I lived in Britain for 10 years and, wow, mate, that is the most anti-autistic society I've ever lived in. One is punished for being sincere everywhere I've been (only within Europe , I must say), but Britain ranks top, by far. They consider that being "polite" is saying "excuse me", even if you say it with a threatening tone. "Sorry" goes together with an elbow at your stomach, you can hardly tell which went first. A smile in most Britons' face means as much as a donation to charity from a multinational. Thanks for your videos, mate. I found out about my being autistic just a few months ago, and I am 45, thanks to you, to a large extent. I also dislike people saying I have "altas capacidades". As if not everyone was "gifted" at something, compared to others. Hugs!!!
About 95 a sixth grader in the emotional support class was invited to the gifted program after failing the year and being listed on the "Honor Roll" earlier the same year. The teacher frantically explained that it was because 50% of the grade was taken from homework and said student refused to hand in anything but, passed all of the tests. The student declined and graduated to middle school for the next year with failing grade in all but math science and gym, coincidentally having those classes under different instructors.
Whenever my parents' generation said someone was gifted, I felt it was their term for being clever but also disabled in some way, so it has always felt patronisingly ableist to me. But wait, there's rather a weird link with the term gifted - it was first coined by Francis Galton in 1869, and he was also the first person to document his own experience of aphantasia (although the word was coined later). He was also a pioneer of eugenics. Eew. No wonder it gives me strange vibes.
I've never encountered anyone even suggesting that it could be offensive. Its a term that comes with a lot of baggage and expectations (and not a lot of support), and as someone who was marked as "gifted" at school, it really seems like it was just an excuse to avoid exploring further and giving real support. If school had given equal attention to the places I was struggling as they did to proudly displaying my exceptional talent in a handful of subjects, I think I'd have done a lot better psychologically speaking. I never got support for my social difficulties, or my lack of emotional control. I never got additional or different teaching for subjects where I wasn't naturally talented. It would be better to use the term similarly to how we refer to the autistic "spiky skillset". Sure, I'm naturally talented in certain areas, but I'm also naturally useless in others. Most "gifted" people aren't the genius polymaths we're assumed to be. We're just more extreme in our talents and inabilities. But, the term does imply that we're just good at everything. Which is why I don't use it to describe myself, even though my teachers did. So, problematic? Definitely. Offensive? Not at all, I would consider if maybe the people saying it's offensive aren't entirely serious.
I've been asked it personally a couple of times & I of course enquired as to why they asked. IMO - it's probably just misunderstandings given a new cultural context. So many terms are picking up the "offensive" tag of late that I think it's led some folks to misinterpret the negative responses they get when they say "gifted" (or whatever equivalent they favour). They get a a bad reaction & think they've said something offensive, because that's so common these days - to put our foot in it - when in reality they just came across as a bit full of themselves.
Thank you so much fo4 this video! The gifted label and program in school was a direct cause of soooooo much damage that had a major lasting effect. I got lucky due to a clerical error when switching schools which had me out of the program so I kept my mouth shut and refused to switch classes when it was discovered. For once my wishes won out and I was free.
Although I refrain from using it, I do, in fact, don't mind people saying that they're gifted. I see it as a simple, factual observation. Why beat around the bush and wait for people to eventually ask if you're gifted? But, that's just me.
Giftedness is most definitely a neurodevelopmental condition. Lots of splinter skills and asynchronous development across all domains, being treated like crap by peers and having unfair expectations by adults (you can do X, so you shouldn't have trouble with Y), sensory hypersensitivities, lots of overlap with many of the things we now know are autistic traits and/or ADHD traits, and not a good fit for education systems designed for the majority instead of this neurodivergent minority. It's unfair that this whole neurotype is labeled with such a loaded word as gifted, because it puts value judgment and prestige on some people and thus other people feel like they're being denigrated (I did not say anything about you!! And neither does my diagnosis of gifted!), and is dismissive of the fact that gifted people really do struggle. It's just as problematic as a functioning label given to autistic people. Doing well at one thing doesn't mean you don't have big struggles in other areas or even in that area sometimes. Giftedness means a lot more than IQ and IQ is not really a straightforward or accurate measurement of a whole human being. But listen, if you're going to put the other end of the bell curve in the DSM as a disorder, then both ends of the bell curve should be in there. Remember the word statistical in Statistical Manual? The DSM is not a good system and not a good description of human beings. But giftedness is statistically rare, not at all in the middle of the bell curve in terms of number of people in the population, so shouldn't go in the book just like all the other things that are divergent from the majority/norm? The social model of disability definitely applies to the experience of giftedness. Disability and giftedness, do not need to be emotionally loaded terms entwined with denigration nor prestige. If there were a completely different name for giftedness that wasn't a loaded term then it would still be a divergent neurotype that is a small minority of the population that society is not designed to fit. Same for the word exceptional, which in terms of the education system really means divergent from the majority and in need of accommodations to meet educational needs and ways of learning. Education of exceptional populations includes the different ways of learning and teaching to meet the needs of disabled people in what we call special ed, end of gifted people and what we call a gifted ed. Gifted education is a flavor of special ed, even if some people don't understand that. I want to add that at this point in my life I view the words gifted, disabled, spoonie, ADHD, AuDHD, and autistic as factual labels about me, without any implication of emotion or superiority or inferiority. I was diagnosed as gifted as a young child and my mom was an early education teacher who recognized it, learned more about it, and rightly told me that when I got to college I would meet more people like me and have social acceptance. That was true. Then as an adult, I started getting diagnosed with chronic illnesses (and later had to request assessments for ADHD and autism) that I have had all of my life, and I was able to let go of my lifelong self-description as a weakling and a runt who struggled with so many things that other people didn't. I learned to understand disability as a fact that did not deserve denigration or blame for things I couldn't do. I learned about disability rights and disability pride and disability acceptance and cross-disability solidarity. And those themes apply to all of the ways I am different from the majority -- in my neurotypes, physical and mental chronic health disabilities, and identities.
Funny part about this, you want to tell an interviewer how gifted you are and show how it is. That's a great way to get the job. But in normal social setting it's not well liked.
I was, and still somehow am, pretty pop-culturaly stereotypical "gifted student". From one hand, I was really intelligent, analitical, inventive, curious and intelectually passionate person, but from the other, I was severly depressed, seriously socially incompetent, and struggling with surviving everyday life on daily basics
Lost? Definitely. Before I went to university, at the same age as everyone else, my life was like behind a curtain, covered in fog, since I had no idea what is going on most of the time, and except roleplaying games buddies, there was nobody I would call my peer, and the feeling was mutual. Gifted? In Poland coming out of communism (eighties) labels from the west were not yet in use, or popular, or even known. But despite their lack in usage, it was not easy to be better in something than other classmates, even if one was worse in many other things compared to them. It was far worse to be the best in class even from one subject. At least in primary school. Assignment to one of nine groups of about 35 kids each was done considering home addresses, so kids from the same area were in the same group. So, as if I did not have enough being tormented outside home already, I had to go to school the same time, for the same classes as my neighbours, to endure them, during later years of primary school to elude them, on a way there, and during classes. A horror. I was making the same mistake as Young Sheldon - lifting my hand when I knew the answer, and that was enough, despite never saying anything implying I consider myself better because I had better grades, and I did not consider myself better. For me learning was an addiction, and an escape from reality. But attending Math Olympiad during last (8th) year of primary allowed me to choose any secondary school without sitting exams, so I went to school for geeky kids, and it was a lot easier there. It is where I met my roleplaying games buddies. I don't think getting labelled gifted would make it for the better.
Bad useage, bad associations, bad history, made both in ignorance and in malice. But it doesn't have to be wrong, and it doesn't have to be cruel. But a new perspective won't heal memories of deep scars. I want to take the word back. I don't think we can, not really. Or that we even should. But we can take back the *fact* that we have gifts; our unique potential buried beneath our burdens from the worlds blindness. I don't know, and this isn't part if my own struggles. Just my ever wishful thinking spouting off. I call myself "Tilted", for what its worth. Or simply... eccentric. My advice that whatever term you want to use for yourself make it balanced. No extremes of good or bad, just a piece of what makes you different.
The way I describe autism as I understand it is , if you take a normal brain and divide it up into its parts then assign each part a value of 10 . An autistic brain will have an 11 in one part and a 9 in another part ! Maybe even a 12 or 13 in some parts but usually a corresponding deficit . That's the way I've come to understand my autism .
I think that people have made that term negative by not teaching what being talented is and how you should behave the reason people feel negatively about others talking about their gifts is two reasons the talented person wasn't taught how to talk about such things properly the other thing is we aren't taught how to view someone thats better than us at something so we view them in a negative way out of jealousy for example if some says my daughter has a talent for dancing she was trying to dance before she could walk she finally became a professional dancer we're so proud of her now as the listener we should be happy for someone living their dream or have a neutral stance but nothing negative i think context and tone of voice also matters when talking about such things put plainly i don't think we are taught properly as humans how to treat the talented and how to behave if you're talented thats the issue and for me personally i like hearing people say what there good at even boasting in a negative way because it allows me to learn more about them and learn about what they're talented in i think there's a way to talk about being talented and there's a way to hear it if those things were taught early on their would be far less friction
I have ADHD and not only was I labeled as "gifted" but people saw me as such despite my parents never telling anyone about my "diagnosis", not even me. (I only found out I had an actual diagnosis later) I really have a conflicting relationship with the label, because on one hand it actually describes pretty well how I was seen by everyone. But also I fully relate to the feelings of pressure and failure that you talked about. I do agree that the label is generally bad, but would no label be better? My experience is that I could never escape it, people just saw potential in me and marked me accordingly, even if they didn't use the word "gifted". Was I actually "gifted"? Maybe. I was always seen as smart, eloquent and talented at many things. I was also considered bad at others, but generally people agreed that my skills far more than compensated for it. What I do know is that I really didn't feel gifted, but rather cursed. I was depressed, unrelatable, eloquent to the point of being insufferable (debating me was just extenuating) and terrified of not meeting expectations. I felt so alone. My mom often says that she could see the smile fading away from my face with each passing picture, but she didn't know what to do. I often wonder how much of me being "gifted" is actually because I was seen as such. From very young my parents and teachers incentivized my hyperfocus on complex things. And the moment I became aware of my expectations I started pushing myself too. Am I a self fulfilled prophecy? I often see the opposite in my sister. She's smart, but her brand of ADHD (inattentive) and being in my shadow actually deeply affected her. She struggled with math in similar ways as me, but where I was pressured and convinced that I should be good at them, she was made to feel stupid and broken, like she shouldn't even try. I often wonder what would happen if she had been treated as gifted.
I find the term Gifted or Genius 2 carry a bit of a similar ideology as, The Model Minority Trope. Instead of a Model Minority Members being of a "select Race", the "Gifted" are the Model Disabled Minority. The Status Quo of what All DA. People are suppose to strive to be like. If we do not measure up, then we're worth less or just useless to NT society. I use to jest that I was a Genius. As to say, why can't we all be geniuses of something? However, I couldn't ever measure up to my own expectation of such projection. It was harmful even as a joke to myself & others. Thou many noted geniuses have fails in society. Perhaps they wouldn't, if we didn't call anyone a genius. What if, we just allow folks to have struggles, to be different, & to have disabilities that don't require a Gift of Genius for us to have human value? It's not that the terms are offensive, but rather they're destructive & supremacist centered. They create unchecked biases by NT folks of or towards ND & Autistic peps. These terms create unrealistic expectations for ourselves, even if just in passing. The terms create segregation of "higher tiered" Autist or ND's from our mutuals, constituting differential treatment for better & Worse. These term are harmful & aren't needed -Just my opinion, bt the proof is in the wording
I have a high IQ and technically, yes, I'm "gifted." However, along with it comes considerable troubles trying to relate to others - even some of above average intelligence. This causes me quite a bit of trouble, and I actually think that life would be easier if I were somewhat closer to "normal" (since coming to this conclusion, I discovered that I'm autistic, but I believe the two are linked). Several years ago, when my first marriage was close to failure, I was in a relationship counselling session, and with all sincerity, I started to say a less detailed version of the first paragraph, above. I didn't get to say the "but" part of the message, which would've shown that I felt isolated because of the way I am, because the "counsellor" (she wasn't very good, and doesn't deserve the title) jumped in and reacted badly, as if I had been about to say that everyone should listen to me and do as I say. That's what I've come to expect, even from a supposed "trained professional counsellor" if I mention my intelligence. If only she had kept her mouth shut, she would've seen that I was saying my intelligence was a curse, and that I felt like an absolute failure in the aspects in life that counted the most. Truth be told, I still am. Being "gifted" is no gift. It's a curse.
I've never had to deal with the complications tied to the 'gifted' label, but I have dealt with 'special', and that meant quite the opposite in retrospect. We all have our triggers and it's important to be considerate of how our words might affect others. It's also important to be kind to ourselves should we have a social misstep, and when I do get offended, I try to remind myself that everyone (myself included) can unintentionally wound. I've certainly wounded many with my words, and despite trying my best not to, I'm certain to unintentionally wound others.
I'm an old fart. I realize I have used the word in reference to myself with very obvious quote marks recently. I guess I thought I was making an ironic joke, like everyone is aware of how crappy it was to be isolated from other kids and over-praised on the one hand, and being told that we were lazy, selfish, rude and arrogant when we displayed our social differences, our attentional differences, our literal thinking or our need for honesty and directness. I guess some people would think it was great growing up and being told you were "the next Picasso" and never coming close to meeting expectations. So that's what I mean when I say I grew up "gifted". A very niche experience that it looks like many of your viewers know well. Thank you for helping me to understand how other people who were not aware if that context might interpret that as a flex.
This is helpful for me to understand perhaps why giftedness (in the true definition, which is much deeper than just intelligence) hasn't been widely accepted as neurodivergence. Focusing on just the intellect is a narrow scope, and doesn't fully encompass the experience of giftedness, as it actually exists. Myself, and others are coming out to advocate for changing the name, since the term giftedness comes with many of the negative perceptions (elitism, etc) you mention here. From a gifted adult (who beliefs giftedness IS neurodivergent, not better than or separate from it), thanks for sharing your perspective.
To be neurodivergent, in particular autistic, is to possess a "spiky" skill set. We do well, even excel in some narrow areas, but we have equally specific vulnerabilities or failings. If we possess "gifts", it's naive to think they come without cost, yet that's the mould we are cast into. This video put it into a more culturally-specific context: ua-cam.com/video/F0CXvtin-Ao/v-deo.htmlsi=xeoQa1KZmhoS_kjO
My experience is quite different...I've always been shy (I now realise that may be as a result of undiagnosed autism) especially when I was younger. But the ridicule came anyway. I think people are off the mark a little bit when they make arguments like "people are justifiably angry because you keep rubbing it in their faces" and are making a bit of a straw man argument, as my experience is that people hate you just for the virtue of "being gifted" for want of a better word, regardless of the identity you chose. As an adult I chose to identify as that as a way to take ownership of the hate being thrown at me. At least that's what I feel in relation to whether we should adjust ourselves for neurotypicals. It just sounds like anothe claim of "they're not the problem, you're the problem" which the emerging discussion of double empathy shows is one of the primary ways that autistic people are oppressed. Although I did actually like your main point about how it made you feel like you weren't good enough. I guess I didn't have that because my parents never put any value on succeeding for better or worse. I'll certainly think about that when I'm talking about my own son.
I have chafed at the label since it was placed on me in elementary school. We were taken out of class (in front of everyone to further ostracize the already othered kids), taken to a room with seven other kids to be given special attention and extra attention (which is incredibly unfair, especially given that most of us were already doing well in school), and then on the first day we were literally told we had bigger "pots" than other kids that could "hold more information" (which even then I knew was bs). I made a friend or two, but others got big headed about it and looked down on the kids in regular classes. When I returned to usual classes after starting to fall behind academically at the height of my abuse I quickly realized that it had as much to do with learning styles as anything else. My bodily kinesthetic ADHD friend Sean was incredibly intelligent but not "gifted" because he didn't achieve well on standardized tests like I did. I feel lucky to have had the individualized education for the years I did, but I'm confident that any kids who would've been given that opportunity would have benefited from it.
Thank you for highlighting the most absurd part of my "gifted" program, I was also pulled off into a small group, but STILL not even challenged to the appropriate level. I remember envying the protagonist of the 90s sitcom "Smart Guy," an elementary schooler who'd been allowed to attend high school. I was repeatedly told I had a "college reading level" but only given work for the grade above me, so all the program did was make me accustomed to passing things with ease and recieving an abundance of praise. This, of course, only served to make life much harder once I started being appropriately challeneged in other subjects, (looking at you, math! 😂 Pretty sure I have dyscalculia honestly, didn't even know thag existed growing up!)
Of course! It's really gratifying to hear other people talking about this subject including yours. It's so frustrating that teachers and other adults can't seem to just think of children as people - like, we absolutely realize that adults can be good at one thing, while struggling at others, but children are so frequently lumped into "smart" or "not.smart" boxes.
I was never labeled a gifted kid, and finishing school and college was a long and not so easy path for me. I only accidentally took an IQ test as a grownup and found out: whoops - gifted. So for me that was somewhat nice on the one hand - but on the other hand it was also like: Are you f. kidding me?! Your character points (spiky skillset) idea definitely describes me well. I may be a quick pattern spotter and simplifier, but my memory is rather bad (I really have to rote-learn facts if I need to retain them), and my reading fluency ... okay at best. What, however, with persons who are just once-exceptional? Only gifted? I had that sort of guy at school. Great at every subject except PE. Relaxedly interested in everything really. Breezed through school and college and became a professor. Do you think that those people are probably also spiky (autistic), even if it's not so immediately visible, or is that a different sort of animal? How would you judge the topic giftedness with regards to those people?
I never took an IQ test, but it was recognized when I was in preschool that I had “above-average intelligence”. Thanks to academic games on the TI-99/4A computer that my parents got in 1982 (when I was 3), I was reading on a 1st-grade level when I ENTERED kindergarten. Even though SOCIALLY, I was WAY BEHIND after kindergarten, the school couldn't justify holding me back because academically, I was SO FAR AHEAD. When I was in 3rd grade, I was in a combined 3rd-/4th-grade class with one teacher; all the students in the combined class were judged to be capable of studying on their own while the teacher taught the other grade. I never felt EXTERNAL pressure from being classified as “above average intelligence”, but that was mainly because I put the pressure on myself. My brother had been diagnosed with moderate/borderline severe “mental retardation” (IQ 55) when he was 4 & I was 6. After a year in the Early Childhood Development Center (ECDC), a special ed. preschool, my brother joined me at Linden Elementary when I started 2nd grade, although he was in a separate special ed. class from then through high school. This being 1986, my classmates believed that my brother’s disabilities must be contagious & they treated me accordingly. Excelling academically was my way of proving to myself that my classmates were wrong & I didn't have the same disabilities that my brother did.
You can have a spiky skillset and still breeze through school. I never had to really apply myself but I definitely noticed that some topics were more difficult for me in a very noticeable way, especially anything to do with visual and kinaesthetic information. I recall that we had to build these little robots in physics class and it was the only class I almost failed because I remember I couldn't even understand how to properly connect the cables. It should be noted that I also wrote a paper about string theory for physics class, which should really tell you about the contrast between the two. I think my friend at the time was also possibly autistic because she really struggled to keep up with all the abstract classes such as maths (I was good but never amazing at maths) but she absolutely thrived in that one class we had in physics when we had to build robots. No one performed as well as she did. Yet here I am as an adult who can barely figure out how to swap light bulbs sometimes, and I really struggle to understand instruction manuals but I can understand complex philosophical ideas and literary subtexts. I also struggle to apply myself to keep performing a boring task even if it's a means to an end such as rote memorization for learning a language or practice for learning how to play the guitar. My issue is that I grasp the result before I get there so I just feel overwhelmed having to also perform these steps in real time rather than just imagining what needs to be done. This difficultly to apply myself made school life increasingly difficult as I went though high school and university, because I was expected to keep up my learning but now that I started having to apply myself especially if it was boring or required rote memorization made it extremely difficult to do so.
Yes, "gifted" can hurt. It was really confusing for me to hear "Why are you so stupid if you're supposed to be so smart?" the two first years in primary school (my first teacher deeply disliked the two bilingual kids in her class - my best friend and me were also the two who could already read). I had been tested by psychologists so I could start school one year early, and all it got me was seven years of relentless bullying. #AutDHD
Labels like that are dangerous if they don't also arrive with the support to help realise that potential. For me it's always been the opposite. Everything I have achieved or tried to achieve has somehow appeared to constitute a threat to someone. It seems you can't be gifted, blind and female (and possibly autistic). If teachers and parents are really to help realise children's potential, perhaps they should actually do the work to support that child instead of watching them achieve, sitting by and congratulating themselves or being disappointed if their expectations go unmet while actually doing very little. Thought-provoking work as usual Quinn.
The term probably triggers the majority because because it is hard for them to imagine such a different way of relating to the world. I imagine they just think it means 'more clever', which understandably might annoy them. What they don't realise is the context - the tremendous difficulties that can come with having a high IQ, high capacity for abstract thought and sensitivity to ones surroundings. A different word for it would probably be helpful.
Gifted did not become a label until the 80s, when I was being much bored with school and demand avoidant. My little sister was put into TAG, her mother was proud of that label, not sure how she felt about it. Her eldest is level 2 autistic, but so far she has not sought a diagnosis, and I do not know if she even thought about it. I know that in grade school by fourth grade, I would have had the label. Did I need it? Not really, I already knew by middle school, that I was not living up to my potential. It is a long story, and I tend to over share, so I will stop the story here. Let’s just say without challenging subjects in school, I thought being babysat for 7 hours a day too much to deal with the other social pressures of school
the poblem I see is thinking "gifted" is an achievement. It is not, you're born with it like being blonde or having down syndrome. People shouldn't get offended or intimidated by other's characteristics but here we are. If I say I've learned a second language by myself I get praised, if I say I'm gifted I get weird looks, but I'm able to do that because I'm gifted. Anyone else tired of this irony? I certainly am
The gifted program ideology was a mistake. I had a similar experience to you. Being treated both as a defect and a genius alternately does a number on your ego formation.
The reason I don't think the term "gifted" makes much sense when referring to autistic people is that it implies something was given for free, with no strings attached. However, that very much hasn't been my experience. There certainly are things I can do much more easily than many others, but there also are many things they would consider easy, yet I absolutely can't manage. It's hardly a gift if there's a hefty price to pay. To be clear, I don't necessarily resent that - for the most part, it's a fair balance in the end. However, I've found myself wondering many times if I'd be better off with a more even skillset, especially at times when my limitations became painfully obvious for everyone to see. Ultimately, I think it makes most sense to enable everyone to work to their strengths as much as possible. That obviously requires a degree of openness and honesty about the things we do well and the things we don't. However, if it comes to the point where we're possibly discouraging people around us from exploring their own skillset, that's a bad thing. That way, others never get to progress and learn - possibly finding out that their strengths have some overlap with our own. Since that can happen all too easily if we're too forward about our own strengths, the social taboo against bragging makes perfect sense to me. I don't mind speaking up when my particular skillset would be useful in a situation, but I'll always encourage others to try things and ask me for help if they need it. Generally, that seems to come across much better. It's also lead to a few people discovering skills of their own they never knew about - and I love seeing that.
The G word turned up in what later became a minefield of euphemisms. It's right there with "Special". To the extent that I actually recall people pull things like, "My sister's child is... ...autistic." When in reality the kid had Downs. Everything got muddled. And it was fine, so long as you said it with a misty glow in your voice like an Enya album cover. You could use any fantastical words, so long as you used the correct daydreamy tone, so everyone knew you were sidestepping describing a tragedy. "Kerry's son Eric stands *tall*." 🙄
I think the gifted label can be useful in an academic setting for children. In my map, the label is "High Data Metabolism" and is useful in the sense that giving certain children more data to consume can sate them in a way that leads to better outcomes for everyone. I think it is only useful for adults in a retrospective sense, a way of placing one's own childhood trauma within a certain context. It grates on me with the same shrill repulsion as any hierarchy, the same idea of any innate superiority in any context. Being "gifted" as an adult doesn't increase your likelihood of being relevant or correct, it just means you get more agitated and hungry if your brain doesn't have information to chew on. Speaking in self-reference as an adult, of being gifted, reads to me as being painfully irrelevant to just about any helpful topic other than trauma and the pain of misplaced expectations. As Touchstone says, "The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool." In my view, any adult that doesn't deeply grok this yet isn't paying quality attention, or is trapped in their traumas.
Well oh my, you have just been on a streak of videos stabbing into the core of me haha. I was a "gifted" child. It ended up taking a rather malignant turn for me as well. I had behavioral problems as I tested high in my classes but routinely failed them as I never did the homework. Not as a protest mind I still can't remember to file my paperwork on time (if at all). But with all my teachers insisting I was brilliant but uncooperative and my family suggesting I was "rebelling against slow teaching" had other knock on social effects. When I was young kids made fun of me sure, but the superiority complex combined with a large frame and aggressive personality made me more of a jerk than any of them. Took me until adulthood to see it and make some correcting moves; I still feel echoes of the old me though. It's an ongoing process.
I wasn't physically imposing, in fact I was late to grow height & bulk & I've always been one to talk my way out of trouble as a result, but otherwise we share a lot of parallels you & I, Eric. Thanks for commenting again💜
From one "irrelevant old fart" to another, thanks for discussing this Quinn. 💜
In the early 80s I was put in the "Gifted" program in school. Somewhere around 86' they decided I should not be in the gifted program, due to low academic performance, and I probably didn't. I struggled with topics I found boring and excelled at topics I loved. I haven't thought much about those things for a number of years. My wife and I have a conversation about my childhood every once in a while. I'm 50, it would have been exceptional for a neurodivergent person to have been diagnosed back then. I, as of yet not been diagnosed as autistic. I share some of the same traits as some of the creators I watch do. What I do know is I am different and that is ok. I can fail and it is finally ok.
My experience after being placed in the "Gifted" program in the 90's was much the same! It's shocking how little seems to have changed in spite of all of us speaking up about our experiences for so long.
I haven't been in a gifted program, but everything else you write sounds very similar to me.
Thanks for sharing
Quinn. Oh my word. I was only whinging about this very topic very recently to a primary school teacher. I think it is just such a damaging retohric. I myself was told I was 'gifted' and 'exceptional' and that I would be a 'high flyer'. My (unrecognised autistic) father has been repeatedly referred to a genius. What good did it actually do? Just made us feel worse when we didn't and couldn't achieve what was expected of us. And what is expected from someone gifted...is so so much more than what is expected from everyone else. We just have further to fall into our pit of wasted potential. So yes agreed - gifts will always come with anti-gifts. I am so happy to have found someone who talks so much sense. Thank you Quinn.
Well put. I can say from the experience that the label didn't do anything but to put distance between me and my peers. If anything it probably prevented me from finding the more useful diagnostic labels of Autistic and ADHD that could have led to more targeted actions that could have supported me. In my school it essentially meant that we did well on standardized tests which is a skill that's served very little purpose in my real life. Then, when I struggled later in life I was "not living up to my potential" while I was completely overwhelmed in the busy classroom, bullied by my peers, and uninterested in the busy work I was being given.
@@caseyschall7419 🤍
We were segregated from the rest of the class. There were 4 of us. No one was diagnosed back then as it was the mid 70's. We were just told that we were ahead of the rest of the class. We were sent to the library where, occasionally, the principal would come and get us to do fun or interesting things and others where we spent hours without any direction at all. It felt a lot like we were being punished for being quick at our work. I spent a lot of time wondering what the other kids were learning up in the classroom while we sat, ignored, closed up in the library. Overall, not a great experience as it felt completely purposeless and I was very eager to learn (I still am!). Thank you for another great and relatable video. BTW I enjoy both styles of video presentation that you are using as I feel I learn something new every time.
I get that feeling, though the library was my place of refuge from the social pressures of school. However, another boy and I were sent out of math class to work at our own pace. We had no supervision, but were expected to turn in the written work of even problems daily of our progress through the textbooks. It became a competition on who could finish what level of math before the other. I always wonder what happened to that boy, who I now know has ADHD, probably AuDHD, like myself.
I think that the language used is secondary to the support given. I was labelled gifted but there was no further support. They could have labelled me all kinds of good or bad things if it had come with some help.
In my region, you'd hear MGM🦁, Mentally Gifted Minds. But the system didn't know what to do with them, besides segregate so they wouldn't endure so much bullying. They had the same teacher as the kids with Downs. They went to the zoo a lot.
@@randalalansmith9883 For me it was literally one meeting once in primary school, it was at the same meeting that they also said I needed special needs support for my inability to write...
I didn’t need to be singled out more as a child, than i allready was. I needed support and to have my burdens made smaller, not to have them increase while being pushed. I needed to be seen an valued for my personality traits, not my abilities. I needed to be loved for being me, not for achievements or how invissible i could become.
I consider my ‘gift’ to be introspection and reflection, and thanks to that, i beat depression, bettered myself, and would today consider myself ‘succesfull’ on my own terms.
I still would prefer knowing how to ask for help - the one thing I still can’t.
I am only succesfull in my own terms, not in my family expectations of me. They look down on my steady job in a bookstore, because they can’t use it to win any bragging rights. And I am secretly happy about that.
My small revenge.
‘Giftednes’ ruined my childhood.
It definitely feels cringy to use it in reference to myself; the expectations were heavy to carry. thank you for another great video full of insights
The TV show Malcom In The Middle was particularly based on how labeling someone gifted can lead to social ostracization.
I think a lot of Aspies could relate to Malcom, I know I sure did while growing up.
Thank you Quinn,
As a younger man it was important to me that others knew how intelligent I was. It wasn't because I wanted to be better than anyone else, but because I needed to feel that I had a place that wasn't at the bottom of the pile. With not being married, social, interested in sports or current affairs this limited my input, so I tried to make up for it in my own way. It took me a while to realise that my efforts only made things worse. Someone bought me a pin badge ' When you're as great as I am, it's hard to be humble.' Seeing it written down brought it home to me.
These days I keep my gob shut and try to keep my opinions to myself and may help out if asked, and for that, I get more respect.
Hope you don't mind, but I'd like a coffee and a hobnob next week. Cheers. 🧔 👍
A hobnob, Bob?
😂
I do like a bit of alliteration.
And a hobnob😉
@@Autistamatic me too. Fancy an Arrowroot Thin, Quinn. 😁
Thank you for the video. I appreciate that you moved the microphone away from your face when drinking your cuppa. I suspect this was to avoid triggering those with misophonia. Thank you.
Courtesy costs nothing, does it😊 Thanks for noticing.
@@AutistamaticI hugely appreciate it, it makes me smile every time you have a sip, rather than squeam and shudder. #misophonia #thoughtful 💕
Well said, I like this approach a lot. I liked the differentiation and multiple angled "black and white". Heh, the final sentences😆
this reminds me of some feelings and thoughts i've had lately about dignity.
as autistic people we often end up needing to diminish our own worth, feelings, desires etc. because the way we demand to be respected can be taken as offensive. i say "taken as" offensive deliberately, because personally it's never my intention and i feel wronged when people interpret me demanding things as offensive. especially as a woman in my early 20s who has always been quiet and afraid of asking for things and is just now starting to learn to stand up for myself - why do i have to mitigate my demands, be polite and say "please" and "thank you" and "if it's not too much trouble could you maybe...?" as if i wasn't in the right for asking for it.
it's humiliating. i'm tired of pretending like my needs are only wants, pretending like i don't believe i deserve whatever i'm asking for. it makes me feel icky and i hate that i have to do it, but it feels like sometimes it's the only way to get through to people without starting a fight, and in the end you can't change how the things you say are received, no matter the intention.
what do you think about striking the balance between not diminishing yourself but also staying polite and considering the other person's feelings?
I would continue to say please and thank you. It's just polite to do so. I think this is something everyone struggles with nd and nt. It's just harder for nd, because accomodations are often different then what people would expect.
But this is something to a defree everyone struggles with their entire lifes. How do I get my needs met without walking over others and their needs, learning boundaries, learning the difference between boundaries and rules ect.
Something that is also complicated, people are used to a dynamic they have with others. Once this is set in stone it can be hard to change it. That's why it's sometimes easier to set boundaries and communicate needs with new people than to change already existing dynamics.
In short: it's complicated.
@maydee3000 I 100% agree. It bothers me that even though this is an important discussion to have, the first response from many people is that autistic people need to shrink themselves. That we need to conform to what the NTs conception of how the world works. Also, the discussions I've seen kind of implies that you should discount all the things that are good about yourself so the rest of the world can continue to see you as lesser. I know that Autistamatic mentioned some of these things in the video but I feel like the importance of these points is heavily dismissed in some of these arguments.
@@danika9411I personally hate politeness for politeness sake. I'm ADHD, so it's not that I don't know social rituals, I just can't stand them. The unnecessary artifice just drives my brain crazy.
That doesn't mean I'm rude (or seen as rude), only maybe a bit too straightforward sometimes. I might not be polite, but I'm nice. I won't bother with social flourishes, but I'll be constantly careful about how my words might make you feel.
Some people might feel entitled to politeness, but I think most just want to not have their feelings hurt. I don't know how to give advice on how to avoid that as an autistic person, but I'd absolutely start by how phrasing affects the meaning and the emotional reactions people have.
@@IanUniackevery true. What I do to avoid shrinking myself is that I refuse to change my ADHD style of communication but find ways within it to avoid potential issues.
For example: I love sharing things, trivia, stories, cool things I learned. I do it because I found those things enriching and want you to experience that feeling. But sadly some people thought I was bragging or making things about me.
My core behavior hasn't changed, but now I make it clear that my focus is not on me or even in what I'm saying, it's in them. In the feelings I want them to experience.
Another thing that helps a lot is giving them ways to feel agency without actually disrupting you. People are less prone to feel like I'm bragging once I ask what topics or things they enjoy the most so I can make sure that they enjoy what I'm saying. My way of socializing won't change regardless of what they pick, but it will feel less imposed, even if they never actually ask me to talk about something else. Just having the option explicitly available is enough to make them view things in a different light.
I can’t be the only one who gets all misty eyed when the exit music plays?
The gifted program was for smart kids. Most of the people in the gifted program. Were havers of autism without the intellectual disability, but didnt realize it was autism until they had kids.
I think it showed some insight that my parents made sure we didn't take any IQ tests, ignored "gifted" programs, and later ignored Mensa and similar organizations, etc. My cousins who had taken IQ tests and/or were in the gifted programs (and later joined Mensa) were insufferable. Even so, I was always being compared to my supposed potential. But I think my brothers got the worst side of it when they were compared to me by my previous teachers and were told ridiculous things (like that they were disappointments...)
I still feal arrogant when I describe myself as smart at what I feal are appropriate times, e.g. when meeting a new Dr, counselor, getting my autism diagnosis or being there for diagnoses of my autistic grandchildren.
On the other hand having my granddaughter in the 2E programs at school was a very good thing overall. It probably helps that (like me) she doesn't care about what other people think of her.
Reminding me.. I haven't heard from anyone about their MENSA membership in a good while.. which is nice
There are much, much better communities for HEPGs than MENSA, which is based on dominator culture white male culture. Just no.
Technialy I stored high enough in IQ test to get into mensa and for a quite long time I wanted to join mensa becaue I was really curious ahout how people I would meet there would be, since inteligence measurment and reaserching highly inteligent people are my special interests, but now I'm geniuely afraid of them 😬
In the early '90s i was bumped up a grade. There was one kid in the "gifted" program, and i felt slighted i too wasn't in that program. I think he felt the same way that i got to move up a grade and he didn't. He was quite haughty about his gifted status and, being observant, i saw how the others looked depressed by his boasting. I don't want people to be saddened by my intelligence, so i learned never to flaunt it unless it was to help others, which i did.
When my daughter was evaluated and determined to have an IQ of 135 at 10, instilling humble intelligence without dumbing yourself down was something i was successful in achieving. She was put into the gifted program, and immediately wanted out. Apart from it drawing attention she didn't want, it was a bunch of stupid, pointless projects. Unfortunately, the school is under the impression gifted kids have a hard time when moving up a grade. My wife and i think they're too dumb to understand that when her and i were moved up a grade, we already didn't fit in. When you're that far ahead, you will never fit in.
Yup, I have baggage with the word from my time in my school's program during the 80s-90s. Every neuro-divergent friend I have seems to have been given the label during their own childhood and none like it much.
Quinn, “Young, Gifted & Lost” is just on a whole other level. The quality of content you’re creating is absolutely mind-blowing. I mean, 22 minutes felt like five-I was completely immersed! You have this incredible way of explaining things, weaving in cultural, intellectual, and psychological insights alongside your personal experiences, and it all just flows so naturally.
I also love your catchphrase, “I’m Quinn, and I’m autistic.” It’s such a grounding reminder of how central autistic identity is to who we are, and it’s so reassuring to hear it from you. Seeing how your brain works through your art and commentary is such a reflection of how my brain works, and it’s just so reassuring and inspiring. You’re a master of your craft, and it’s an absolute pleasure to hyperfixate on your videos. Can’t wait for the next one! Thank you so much for what you do, Quinn!
Thank you Sam, and best of luck with your own channel👍
@@AutistamaticDo you have a normal heart rate for example if you get upset or experience fear or are surprised does your heart rate go up or stay neutral? I'm asking this because people with ASPD or Psychopathy have lower resting heart rates and they rarely go up is this the same for autistic people?
@@Autistamaticnever mind I got the info I needed👍
This hit home and stirred up childhood memories from the 1970's. This topic comes up from time to time in my own head and brings up a lot of resentment and anger. I was told at a young age that I was "gifted" and that I would be part of the "movers and shakers", "an innovator", etc. I'm 58 and finally got my autism diagnosis a few months ago. I'm a washed up man living on disability since my late 30's, not a mover or shaker and now I'm finally understanding why thanks to content providers such as yourself and the other people of the community (other viewers) who comment on this content of neurodivergency. I rarely ever comment on videos in general, I'll think about commenting then avoid it because of a fear of engagement (how autism affects me most of the time). Thank you for your contribution to this community and something to talk about in my next therapy session.
Thank you for commenting today💜
"Movers & shakers"? Yup - that was one of them😉
Thanks for speaking up. It’s valuable and I’m always scared to as well.
I was pre-'gifted' designation in school, but oh the 'potential' I had and failed to live up to! My cringiest words are 'potential' and 'If only ...' A few years ago my mother gave me all my old report cards. Reading them was so emotional and I cried for the young innocent I was being burdened with so many expectations, and being given no credit for the sheer will it took to endure existing. I was about 10 when I first started fantasizing about being dead.
For my mother, her word of burden was 'precocious' (1940-50's England). In her world it was the worst thing to be, especially if you're female.
Your discussion didn't include the burden of responsibility that parents had to bear for how kids turned out and showed up. The blank slate theory of newborns was pretty popular in my parent's child rearing years. 'Gifted' was probably a relief for parents who felt the social burden, of 'You created this, there for it's your fault' scenarios.
Even without autism applied to my children, (it was ADHD diagnoses), I lower the expectations on my children's outcomes, and often said to other adults and teachers, '"I don't care if they end up digging ditches, as long as they're good people" in defense of the spikey skill sets my own children displayed and I was expected to answer for. "I see where they got it from!" was one of my favourite compliments, Lol.
I had an Elementary school teacher bully me on class over being "gifted..." It ruined my life in ways that I don't really need to describe to "those who know." All because she was incredulous that I could perfectly recall the entirety of a third grade text, the beginning of which she used as a free writing prompt, and to me just writing the original text was The Truth and I couldn't write anything steering away from it...
The tale you told of your experience is a mirror of my time at school. Led me into the inevitable senses of self doubt and inadequacy.
Thanks Quinn. I was never labeled as ‘gifted’, but in working class Australia in the 60s, there was always the expectation from my family and school that I was different because I was smart. The pressure was awful. I felt my differences, but didn’t ever feel very clever. Just a feeling of shell shock from the constant pressure of expectations and overwhelm. I can understand your feelings of the word gifted. I also think ‘potential’ is pretty awful too.
I was in Elementary school in the 90's and got placed in a "Gifted and Talented" class. I didn't realize what it was in the moment so this was extremely informative. Thank you Quinn.
I was labeled "gifted" early in grade school and at first I loved it because I was instantly singled out for bullying in 2 schools now and the "gifted" class had maybe 10 students, most of them older than I was {k-8grade, so 5-13} so it was a safe place.
My parents were just like "ok we knew you were smart, they say really smart. So I guess you better have straight As from now on then." It's like I was suddenly on my own - I was gifted so somehow that meant I could get myself up and to school. I didn't need help with homework or tests. Worse, all of a sudden I was supposed to be "above being bullied" somehow. It was always "oh, they're jealous because you're so smart and you're going to go to a fancy college and be successful while have to work for a living. You should be the bigger person and ignore it, or understand their pain or blah blah blah." While very few people were being diagnosed Autistic then, never mind girls like me, "gifted" became the reason/excuse for all my clearly Autistic signs/struggles. "Awww, she's just a little weird/shy/strange/sensitive/withdrawn... because she's too smart. The curse of genius, right?!"
So, as a little 6 or 7 year old girl, I learned to mask my intelligence in front of my peers, make excuses for the poor ways others treated me, be too independent, hide my struggles and feel intense shame for them. It was like "Oh, look, we've discovered you're bright. Now, go do something amazing." But I didn't do anything amazing, I was having major burnout by 7th grade, which I masked because "what've you got to be stressed/worn out about? All you do is go to school. It's not like you do anything." Well, I mean I'm like 10 and y'all keep treating me like I'm supposed to be an amalgamation of Einstein and Jung and Da Vinci, wtf?
That sounded like Public Image's first single, hahaha.
It's funny, I was bullied in school and teachers said, oh, yes, but some day they will be like a great entrepeneur boss who buillies their colleagues or sth
Thanks Quinn ❤
I find 'Prodigy' gets me through unnoticed. ;)
I was born in 2000 and relate to so much of this! Clearly little has changed :/
Even if you're not put into a "gifted" program, if your teachers or other adults make you feel like you're exceptionally intelligent - (or you see your spikes in skills that you don't even have to try for) and then you run into struggles that *are in the troughs, it's brutal. Like slamming face first into a brick wall.
Whether you be gifted or not, being giving is always a noble pursuit!
I also don’t use it, except for word plays. I don’t find words offensive, however I find it particularly unhelpful! The effect it has on assumptions is very big!
CHOOSE YOUR WORDS CAREFULLY! Even better, don’t burden someone with a STATE adjective, gift (lol) them with a recognition of their ACTION verbs!
Ok thx Quinn you are such a Giving individual!!! Thank you for all your efforts and skillful means!!!
(Oops just broke my own rule lol, you have the OPTION but not the OBLIGATION of taking this Giving adjective! Results may vary!)
Adding myself to the list of people who had a negative experience after being labelled “gifted” - I pretty much had most of these happen.
It depends on the schools definition of "gifted". In the schools I went to "gifted" only meant high productivity and emotionaly self sufficient , so rich kids who didn't have traumatic childhoods or disability, not that the kids were any more intelligent. I hated the separation because I would have loved the specialized classes, but my skills were so spikey I was often stuck in the lower tracks bored as hell, with teachers expecting me to teach the others in the classroom, because they knew the work was below my abilities. I did well in testing but, but homework was impossible.
I love your points. I hadn't really thought about it but my dad's work was itinerant so I moved between schools a lot. I was REALLY lucky that at my first school they identified my situation and gave me specialised help to accelerate (in maths). However I definitely experienced what you say at other schools and it really bothered me. I think I probably never thought about it the way you do because my brain was anchored to "the system works" because of my earliest experience.
Thanks for this video Quinn. I've felt this same way about being "gifted" since I was 8 years old and given that label back in 1983.
Yup, Quinn. Right on the money. At least for our generation. My father is a retired teacher. I was assessed as a child in grades 2 and 3. When my Dad saw my IQ score he very carefully hid it from me, the other teachers and refused people who wanted to do things like 'accelerate' (move to a higher grade) or put me in other gifted programs. He realized that my social/physical development was behind enough that would have become a disaster. In fact, I decided to repeat Grade 6 despite passing because my deficits. (Ironically enough Math was one of them. I say Ironic because I have a Master's in Physics.)
What follows is not victim mentality but documented cases. My Primary and Secondary education were heavily marked by bullying, ostracization, genuine attempts on my life, depression, anxiety, malicious accusations, bad luck and good grades.
In the Physics department, most of the people there (student and prof alike) were some flavor of gifted. I could be myself and most people were 'OK' with it. Except the Department Head who cut off my funding and proclaimed that what I was working on (Astronomy -- Black Holes and High Mass X-ray Binaries) wasn't *real* science because there was no lab component. My social deficits keep me out of the workforce and education now. I'm mostly a recluse. Gotta take the whole package.
Excellerent class for me. Now I "waste my talents."
it's denial and cope. the whole your 'not broken! your magic! '
I feel it dismissing and that it puts the onus back on me to fix my own problems.
It never resolves in me getting useful help.
Just my perspective ( as an aspie), I've honestly never heard an adult autistic person say "I am gifted"; they always say "I was in the gifted program". I think this is because people in the gifted programs, at least around the same time periods, tend to have a certain set of shared experiences we can relate to each other with. If someone announces "I am a baseball player" vs "I played baseball" I would probably sense a similar level of arrogance. And I think the general revulsion in these kind of statements was captured well once by ricky gervalis with "so fucking what"?
Imagine being on a plane and the pilot passes out and someone shouts over the intercom "can anyone fly the plane" and you were to shout out "I am gifted". You are now obligated in some fashion to elaborate on how you being gifted means you can fly the plane, UNLESS of course you just are using it as stand in for general superiority. "Nah, but I am really good at chess" is going to probably get you thrown out plane. But here is the adjacent problem, I can not think of one thing that being "gifted" (or even saying, I have a spikey skill set), would have any relevance to in a general discussion. The autist who reacts is more likely to infodump their obsession with flight simulator or something and approach it that way, which lends itself to practical utility in the problem.
Great video as always, Quinn. I've not really come across this before, sounds like a huge amount of pressure to put on a child. Love the do the opposite of what Sheldon would do- great advice to live by 😄
Lovely video Quinn. Bragging, gives me the ick. 😊
I was placed in a gifted school program for one year. It was a life saver. At the same time I went to counselling. That was a stupid waste of time.
I always thought that being "gifted" indicated what *kind* of person you were, like using the term neurodivergent now, and I personally love that it's one rare occasion we don't have to self deprecate.
nah, i was put in gifted classes since 2nd grade, and i still call myself that when appropriate in conversation. but i only use "gifted" in meaning that i was in the gifted program at school.
I never got diagnosed in school. Had to work it out for myself. Teachers alway thought I was smarter than I let on and was just lazy so I never got the help I actually needed. Although I can never work out if it was because the school was really bad, or if there was too many students, teachers weren't trained properly or racism - I'm cournish but grew up in wales and let me tell you it doesn't matter if you're fluent in welsh they'll always see you as english and will only want you to leave. Used to get bullied alot but my perants insisded that I ignore them. Even if I was getting beaten. I think the way schools are run leaves alot to be desired. For me, being "smart" only ever held me back. I'm told it's different now but I see there was a stabbing in my old school so I guess it hasn't changed that much. Left school with no qualifications just trauma.
Yah, the "gifted" family of compliments is something i make every attempt to avoid. It always seems to come packaged with comments about not living up to potential. I have many perennials that people are very happy I don't explore.
great video, Quinn
if I remember correctly, I was labeled gifted in 2nd or 3rd grade (early 90s) and enrolled in a spanish class. one day on my way to that class, I dropped all my class stuff and had a meltdown and quit. I don't remember it ever coming up again, but maybe yhe label was on my record
In second grade, my teachers realized I was “accelerated”. The following year, in 3rd grade, I was placed in a school for such kids. We were doing up to 9th grade work. I was only there just over a year before we moved to a different city where such schools weren’t available. It’s interesting to me that this video popped up. I’ve been watching videos about gifted adults and wondering what the difference is in the way I present as autistic. Listening to Quinn, I feel like in the late 70s when we didn’t know about autism, gifted was the same thing - at least for me - by a different name. Finding out a year ago, at nearly 54 years old, that I am autistic was shocking but not surprising. I went through the feelings of upset that so many of us do about grieving a life that may have been somewhat different had we known. Though 3rd grade is a touchstone for me, I never understood it. My family certainly didn’t call me gifted or treat me differently. Today, I feel like I could swap names, gifted for autistic. Interestingly, I feel more aligned with autistic than gifted. Partly bc of the label and being humble, but bc autism is more encompassing and descriptive of my experiences. By the way, I hated the school. I cut all the time. Yes, in third grade. It was too overwhelming an environment. Too loud. Too bright with the lights. Changing of classes. And much greater expectations of me under the harsher physical environment. I was relieved to move so I could escape it. I did well academically, but inside it was killing me. Since I couldn’t speak my truth about it, I just cut school a lot. Anyway, thank you, Quinn, for the video. It helped to put a few more pieces together.
Yup, was even good enough for Mensa, which I now know is a complete joke. Thanks for explaining so well, now I know why I get called arrogant when I’m asking questions.
I was the only one in my family who was a few testing points short of Mensa. We had a family friend who was part of it and she found the people and the org snotty and awful so we all got (thankfully) turned off about joining it and it was frequently pointed out to me how I wouldn’t have qualified anyhow. Now that I’m old (65) I can reflect on all our lives and be at peace about where mine landed and see that those extra points and the highest of high iq narrative did not make their lives turn out better in the end. The shadow side of pride is shame so i was spared a portion of both w regard to the high iq rating.
So touched to hear everyone’s experience in these comments. 🙏
Masterful.
Off the bat this reminds me of people hearing my records and saying- meaning to complement me - “ oh you have a fantastic voice! “. I have an average voice that I have trained and worked and exercised for my entire life. No one says Jimi Hendrix had “good hands”- that’s not where the musical inspiration and the skill to express it through one’s instrument is born. My speaking voice is gravely and often monotone - my singing voice isn’t a gift in that I did nothing to deserve it - it Hendrix my garden that I planted and tended w the help of countless others and opportunities I pursued.
I was in the “A/P” gifted classes at school w my bestie. It provided cover for my autism and was less boring for me as far as that goes. Ok back to the video - I get stirred by the topic early in. Thx for always great content.
I'm intrigued now🤔 Anywhere I might hear that singing voice?
Meaningless. The test they gave me in grade school that SHOULD have recognized me as autistic, instead made me “gifted,” which REALLY made me look like I “wasn’t living up to my potential.”
Offensive, not necessarily. Scattershot and meaningless? Definitely.
It was helpful to remind me of how easily others can perceive I have some sort of superiority complex by what I say. I have been known to blurt out agreement with facts people spoke about me that I later, after processing the conversation, considered maybe it was meant to be a compliment. So I may have come off as rude when I only agreed or said "yes, I have been told that." Sorry to everyone I may have offended over the decades because really we all have strengths and challenges, successes and failures!
I was labeled "gifted" in my youth, but didn't think much of it- I was just happy my best friend was also in the group!
This video made me a bit sad. I was diagnosed with ASD as an adult, and I was put in a "Gifted Program" in school as a child, after an IQ test. And while there is probably a connection between those two things, I never saw it that way growing up. Yes I knew I was "odd," and I was certainly bullied & beaten up as an undiagnosed Autistic child going to public school, but I never saw these things as endemic to being "gifted." I saw the bullying/violence I experienced as a failing of the dominant culture, growing up in the inner city, where intelligence & "nerdiness" were reviled instead of celebrated. And when adults said I was gifted, it was a compliment & a relief to me -- like, "Oh good, at least I have THAT going for me. Whew!" (Of course I don't directly call MYSELF gifted lol. I just say "I was in the gifted program" which is a tad more demure ;) ).
I'd also like to mention that not every child in the gifted program I attended was Autistic, not by a long shot. Most of them were very NT, except for a handful of us. Which is probably why I don't see a one-to-one correlation between being gifted, and being Autistic, even as I acknowledge the overlap. To me, "gifted" just means high IQ, regardless of disability or neurotype.
All of that said, I very much respect Quinn's personal experience & opinion on the matter, and I'm very sorry that so many in the comments seem to also have had bad experiences being labeled "gifted" children. I too have had terrible childhood experiences, including violent bullying, unrealistic expectations, and harsh judgment. And regardless of whether it was because we were labeled "gifted," or because we are Autistic, or just because other people can be crappy, I do relate to that
I'd be disappointed in anyone having a problem with that. When it's an incoming observation from a third party, then of course it's a compliment and should be taken that way, IMO.
It only becomes problematic when we say it about ourselves or, to a lesser degree, our kids. I'm glad that people recognise your strengths, whatever words they use😊
@@Autistamatic Thank you so much for your kind and nuanced reply! I'm relieved my experience isn't totally alien. And yes, it's true that no one likes a braggart, and it's a good reminder not to speak that way about oneself
I think of the opposite. I grew up in the era that Gifted and Talented was used, the opposite would be giftless and talentless.
13:55 I was 'honored' with "Severely Emotionally Disturbed" since I was two years old.
Put into Special Ed with other 'gifted' kids, and there was no individual special care plan... It was a bunch of bullies, who suddenly find themselves to have fewer targets in a small class (target: me).
I was called "gifted" as a child. I thought to myself many times that "it's not a gift, it's a curse." The course of my life has certainly not been at the top of any career or achievement level that might be expected if the only thing you look at is a test score and compare it to income, job seniority, or other cultural expectations.
I'd rather find my own place in live and be happy with it, which is where I spent most of my career. At least when I could actually focus on the work I liked rather then being expected to be a "leader."
As for the term "gifted," to me it means no more or less then any other inborn characteristic like being tall, or having natural strength, or coordination, or musical talent, or exceptional eyesight, etc. It's a starting point to build something you want, not a natural superiority. You still have to put in the work to be what you want, and that's more important then any initial talents or "gifts."
Now if only we as a society could do a better job of encouraging all people to learn what's best for them and to pursue those goals effectively.
Here, here!
You know, I was also diagnosed in 1978 at the age of 9. Like you, here in the United States I was branded as 'gifted' and was singled out by malicious people (bullies, etc) due to my difference. My diagnosis was from a psychologist who was making waves for their research into autism in the late 1970s. Much, if not most, common knowledge of autism at the time was of those who had to be institutionalized and since I was 'high functioning', basically there was nothing they could do. "No soup for you!"
Whenever i try to find any ressource how to identify a difference between austitic/Adhd and gifted the websites just keep saying "ask a professional" TELL ME YOUR SECRETS
My working memory (ADHD) significantly lowered my score tho apparently ive got mostly gifted and even some incredible scores, leading me to being just under the gifted threshold so i didnt get to experience those institutions, and the high expectations put on me by others i dont think met up to my own expectations heh
I dont think the label has much of a place nowadays, its misleading
I was not identified as 2e until I was diagnosed months before I started a post-graduate certificate program at the age of 40. There was a university staff member that advised me on it. She told me to quit my job and make multiple, detailed calendars. She was probably right, but quitting work and effectively making and using multiple calendars wasn’t possible given my circumstances.
My allistic brother was identified as gifted as a kid. My mom later told me that she didn’t find it fair that my brother had more learning opportunities because of how he scored on an IQ test at the age of 6. It was very validating to hear that from a parent. I did feel like I was missing out. My brother did very well in school and was well liked. I was actually a stronger student in multiple subjects, but he was more consistent and had that elusive EQ (social intelligence). In my experience, being neurodivergent excluded me from GATE.
Exactly.... The "gifted" have unlimited support. They can screw off
Saying anything positive about yourself (in spite of it being true) is more harshly punished than actually committing acts of selfishness or condescension, behaving with explicit arrogance. It's all about words, not facts. Most people (especially among those with Non-Autistic Spectrum Disorder) construct their reality based on the terms used, and social assumptions that we all are supposed to accept, just because.
It's like that everywhere, but I lived in Britain for 10 years and, wow, mate, that is the most anti-autistic society I've ever lived in. One is punished for being sincere everywhere I've been (only within Europe , I must say), but Britain ranks top, by far. They consider that being "polite" is saying "excuse me", even if you say it with a threatening tone. "Sorry" goes together with an elbow at your stomach, you can hardly tell which went first. A smile in most Britons' face means as much as a donation to charity from a multinational.
Thanks for your videos, mate. I found out about my being autistic just a few months ago, and I am 45, thanks to you, to a large extent. I also dislike people saying I have "altas capacidades". As if not everyone was "gifted" at something, compared to others.
Hugs!!!
About 95 a sixth grader in the emotional support class was invited to the gifted program after failing the year and being listed on the "Honor Roll" earlier the same year. The teacher frantically explained that it was because 50% of the grade was taken from homework and said student refused to hand in anything but, passed all of the tests. The student declined and graduated to middle school for the next year with failing grade in all but math science and gym, coincidentally having those classes under different instructors.
Excellent video man. I went through the same thing, here in USA.
Whenever my parents' generation said someone was gifted, I felt it was their term for being clever but also disabled in some way, so it has always felt patronisingly ableist to me. But wait, there's rather a weird link with the term gifted - it was first coined by Francis Galton in 1869, and he was also the first person to document his own experience of aphantasia (although the word was coined later). He was also a pioneer of eugenics. Eew. No wonder it gives me strange vibes.
The times I was asked if I was gifted (usually by adults) were invariably when I said something unusual rather than showed some aptitude.
And after beating it into you that you aren't allowed to brag, please prepare this résumé.
It goes over a little easier if you speak in third-person.
I've never encountered anyone even suggesting that it could be offensive. Its a term that comes with a lot of baggage and expectations (and not a lot of support), and as someone who was marked as "gifted" at school, it really seems like it was just an excuse to avoid exploring further and giving real support. If school had given equal attention to the places I was struggling as they did to proudly displaying my exceptional talent in a handful of subjects, I think I'd have done a lot better psychologically speaking. I never got support for my social difficulties, or my lack of emotional control. I never got additional or different teaching for subjects where I wasn't naturally talented.
It would be better to use the term similarly to how we refer to the autistic "spiky skillset". Sure, I'm naturally talented in certain areas, but I'm also naturally useless in others. Most "gifted" people aren't the genius polymaths we're assumed to be. We're just more extreme in our talents and inabilities. But, the term does imply that we're just good at everything. Which is why I don't use it to describe myself, even though my teachers did.
So, problematic? Definitely. Offensive? Not at all, I would consider if maybe the people saying it's offensive aren't entirely serious.
I've been asked it personally a couple of times & I of course enquired as to why they asked. IMO - it's probably just misunderstandings given a new cultural context. So many terms are picking up the "offensive" tag of late that I think it's led some folks to misinterpret the negative responses they get when they say "gifted" (or whatever equivalent they favour). They get a a bad reaction & think they've said something offensive, because that's so common these days - to put our foot in it - when in reality they just came across as a bit full of themselves.
Thank you so much fo4 this video!
The gifted label and program in school was a direct cause of soooooo much damage that had a major lasting effect. I got lucky due to a clerical error when switching schools which had me out of the program so I kept my mouth shut and refused to switch classes when it was discovered. For once my wishes won out and I was free.
💯 I don't know about you, but in my school we were all outcasts already. Did they think that we needed another reason to be singled out in school?
Although I refrain from using it, I do, in fact, don't mind people saying that they're gifted. I see it as a simple, factual observation. Why beat around the bush and wait for people to eventually ask if you're gifted?
But, that's just me.
Giftedness is most definitely a neurodevelopmental condition. Lots of splinter skills and asynchronous development across all domains, being treated like crap by peers and having unfair expectations by adults (you can do X, so you shouldn't have trouble with Y), sensory hypersensitivities, lots of overlap with many of the things we now know are autistic traits and/or ADHD traits, and not a good fit for education systems designed for the majority instead of this neurodivergent minority.
It's unfair that this whole neurotype is labeled with such a loaded word as gifted, because it puts value judgment and prestige on some people and thus other people feel like they're being denigrated (I did not say anything about you!! And neither does my diagnosis of gifted!), and is dismissive of the fact that gifted people really do struggle. It's just as problematic as a functioning label given to autistic people. Doing well at one thing doesn't mean you don't have big struggles in other areas or even in that area sometimes.
Giftedness means a lot more than IQ and IQ is not really a straightforward or accurate measurement of a whole human being. But listen, if you're going to put the other end of the bell curve in the DSM as a disorder, then both ends of the bell curve should be in there. Remember the word statistical in Statistical Manual? The DSM is not a good system and not a good description of human beings. But giftedness is statistically rare, not at all in the middle of the bell curve in terms of number of people in the population, so shouldn't go in the book just like all the other things that are divergent from the majority/norm?
The social model of disability definitely applies to the experience of giftedness. Disability and giftedness, do not need to be emotionally loaded terms entwined with denigration nor prestige. If there were a completely different name for giftedness that wasn't a loaded term then it would still be a divergent neurotype that is a small minority of the population that society is not designed to fit. Same for the word exceptional, which in terms of the education system really means divergent from the majority and in need of accommodations to meet educational needs and ways of learning. Education of exceptional populations includes the different ways of learning and teaching to meet the needs of disabled people in what we call special ed, end of gifted people and what we call a gifted ed. Gifted education is a flavor of special ed, even if some people don't understand that.
I want to add that at this point in my life I view the words gifted, disabled, spoonie, ADHD, AuDHD, and autistic as factual labels about me, without any implication of emotion or superiority or inferiority.
I was diagnosed as gifted as a young child and my mom was an early education teacher who recognized it, learned more about it, and rightly told me that when I got to college I would meet more people like me and have social acceptance. That was true. Then as an adult, I started getting diagnosed with chronic illnesses (and later had to request assessments for ADHD and autism) that I have had all of my life, and I was able to let go of my lifelong self-description as a weakling and a runt who struggled with so many things that other people didn't. I learned to understand disability as a fact that did not deserve denigration or blame for things I couldn't do. I learned about disability rights and disability pride and disability acceptance and cross-disability solidarity. And those themes apply to all of the ways I am different from the majority -- in my neurotypes, physical and mental chronic health disabilities, and identities.
Funny part about this, you want to tell an interviewer how gifted you are and show how it is. That's a great way to get the job. But in normal social setting it's not well liked.
I was, and still somehow am, pretty pop-culturaly stereotypical "gifted student". From one hand, I was really intelligent, analitical, inventive, curious and intelectually passionate person, but from the other, I was severly depressed, seriously socially incompetent, and struggling with surviving everyday life on daily basics
I don't like the term gifted as it infers a gift.
Hmmm never thought about it that way. Thanks!
No such thing as gifted .. its all about soul development. Learned and earned.
I think Nina Simone would disagree 😂 but seriously it's context, as an artist it's a compliment, as an autistic it's a curse
10:38 Teacher: You need better self esteem.
Me: I did this cool thing!
Peer: Dont BRAG!
Lost? Definitely. Before I went to university, at the same age as everyone else, my life was like behind a curtain, covered in fog, since I had no idea what is going on most of the time, and except roleplaying games buddies, there was nobody I would call my peer, and the feeling was mutual.
Gifted? In Poland coming out of communism (eighties) labels from the west were not yet in use, or popular, or even known. But despite their lack in usage, it was not easy to be better in something than other classmates, even if one was worse in many other things compared to them. It was far worse to be the best in class even from one subject. At least in primary school. Assignment to one of nine groups of about 35 kids each was done considering home addresses, so kids from the same area were in the same group. So, as if I did not have enough being tormented outside home already, I had to go to school the same time, for the same classes as my neighbours, to endure them, during later years of primary school to elude them, on a way there, and during classes. A horror. I was making the same mistake as Young Sheldon - lifting my hand when I knew the answer, and that was enough, despite never saying anything implying I consider myself better because I had better grades, and I did not consider myself better. For me learning was an addiction, and an escape from reality.
But attending Math Olympiad during last (8th) year of primary allowed me to choose any secondary school without sitting exams, so I went to school for geeky kids, and it was a lot easier there. It is where I met my roleplaying games buddies.
I don't think getting labelled gifted would make it for the better.
Bad useage, bad associations, bad history, made both in ignorance and in malice. But it doesn't have to be wrong, and it doesn't have to be cruel. But a new perspective won't heal memories of deep scars.
I want to take the word back. I don't think we can, not really. Or that we even should. But we can take back the *fact* that we have gifts; our unique potential buried beneath our burdens from the worlds blindness.
I don't know, and this isn't part if my own struggles. Just my ever wishful thinking spouting off.
I call myself "Tilted", for what its worth. Or simply... eccentric. My advice that whatever term you want to use for yourself make it balanced. No extremes of good or bad, just a piece of what makes you different.
The way I describe autism as I understand it is , if you take a normal brain and divide it up into its parts then assign each part a value of 10 . An autistic brain will have an 11 in one part and a 9 in another part ! Maybe even a 12 or 13 in some parts but usually a corresponding deficit . That's the way I've come to understand my autism .
I think that people have made that term negative by not teaching what being talented is and how you should behave the reason people feel negatively about others talking about their gifts is two reasons the talented person wasn't taught how to talk about such things properly the other thing is we aren't taught how to view someone thats better than us at something so we view them in a negative way out of jealousy for example if some says my daughter has a talent for dancing she was trying to dance before she could walk she finally became a professional dancer we're so proud of her now as the listener we should be happy for someone living their dream or have a neutral stance but nothing negative i think context and tone of voice also matters when talking about such things put plainly i don't think we are taught properly as humans how to treat the talented and how to behave if you're talented thats the issue and for me personally i like hearing people say what there good at even boasting in a negative way because it allows me to learn more about them and learn about what they're talented in i think there's a way to talk about being talented and there's a way to hear it if those things were taught early on their would be far less friction
I have ADHD and not only was I labeled as "gifted" but people saw me as such despite my parents never telling anyone about my "diagnosis", not even me. (I only found out I had an actual diagnosis later)
I really have a conflicting relationship with the label, because on one hand it actually describes pretty well how I was seen by everyone. But also I fully relate to the feelings of pressure and failure that you talked about.
I do agree that the label is generally bad, but would no label be better? My experience is that I could never escape it, people just saw potential in me and marked me accordingly, even if they didn't use the word "gifted".
Was I actually "gifted"? Maybe. I was always seen as smart, eloquent and talented at many things. I was also considered bad at others, but generally people agreed that my skills far more than compensated for it.
What I do know is that I really didn't feel gifted, but rather cursed. I was depressed, unrelatable, eloquent to the point of being insufferable (debating me was just extenuating) and terrified of not meeting expectations. I felt so alone. My mom often says that she could see the smile fading away from my face with each passing picture, but she didn't know what to do.
I often wonder how much of me being "gifted" is actually because I was seen as such. From very young my parents and teachers incentivized my hyperfocus on complex things. And the moment I became aware of my expectations I started pushing myself too. Am I a self fulfilled prophecy?
I often see the opposite in my sister. She's smart, but her brand of ADHD (inattentive) and being in my shadow actually deeply affected her. She struggled with math in similar ways as me, but where I was pressured and convinced that I should be good at them, she was made to feel stupid and broken, like she shouldn't even try. I often wonder what would happen if she had been treated as gifted.
I find the term Gifted or Genius 2 carry a bit of a similar ideology as, The Model Minority Trope.
Instead of a Model Minority Members being of a "select Race", the "Gifted" are the Model Disabled Minority. The Status Quo of what All DA. People are suppose to strive to be like. If we do not measure up, then we're worth less or just useless to NT society.
I use to jest that I was a Genius. As to say, why can't we all be geniuses of something? However, I couldn't ever measure up to my own expectation of such projection. It was harmful even as a joke to myself & others.
Thou many noted geniuses have fails in society. Perhaps they wouldn't, if we didn't call anyone a genius. What if, we just allow folks to have struggles, to be different, & to have disabilities that don't require a Gift of Genius for us to have human value?
It's not that the terms are offensive, but rather they're destructive & supremacist centered. They create unchecked biases by NT folks of or towards ND & Autistic peps. These terms create unrealistic expectations for ourselves, even if just in passing. The terms create segregation of "higher tiered" Autist or ND's from our mutuals, constituting differential treatment for better & Worse. These term are harmful & aren't needed
-Just my opinion, bt the proof is in the wording
I have a high IQ and technically, yes, I'm "gifted." However, along with it comes considerable troubles trying to relate to others - even some of above average intelligence. This causes me quite a bit of trouble, and I actually think that life would be easier if I were somewhat closer to "normal" (since coming to this conclusion, I discovered that I'm autistic, but I believe the two are linked).
Several years ago, when my first marriage was close to failure, I was in a relationship counselling session, and with all sincerity, I started to say a less detailed version of the first paragraph, above. I didn't get to say the "but" part of the message, which would've shown that I felt isolated because of the way I am, because the "counsellor" (she wasn't very good, and doesn't deserve the title) jumped in and reacted badly, as if I had been about to say that everyone should listen to me and do as I say. That's what I've come to expect, even from a supposed "trained professional counsellor" if I mention my intelligence. If only she had kept her mouth shut, she would've seen that I was saying my intelligence was a curse, and that I felt like an absolute failure in the aspects in life that counted the most. Truth be told, I still am.
Being "gifted" is no gift. It's a curse.
I've never had to deal with the complications tied to the 'gifted' label, but I have dealt with 'special', and that meant quite the opposite in retrospect.
We all have our triggers and it's important to be considerate of how our words might affect others. It's also important to be kind to ourselves should we have a social misstep, and when I do get offended, I try to remind myself that everyone (myself included) can unintentionally wound. I've certainly wounded many with my words, and despite trying my best not to, I'm certain to unintentionally wound others.
"To err is human"
I'm an old fart. I realize I have used the word in reference to myself with very obvious quote marks recently. I guess I thought I was making an ironic joke, like everyone is aware of how crappy it was to be isolated from other kids and over-praised on the one hand, and being told that we were lazy, selfish, rude and arrogant when we displayed our social differences, our attentional differences, our literal thinking or our need for honesty and directness. I guess some people would think it was great growing up and being told you were "the next Picasso" and never coming close to meeting expectations. So that's what I mean when I say I grew up "gifted". A very niche experience that it looks like many of your viewers know well.
Thank you for helping me to understand how other people who were not aware if that context might interpret that as a flex.
Ugh I probably sounded like I was bragging just then, darn it!
@@katharinegates2917 I think most people reading your comment know where you're coming from. I certainly do😊
This is helpful for me to understand perhaps why giftedness (in the true definition, which is much deeper than just intelligence) hasn't been widely accepted as neurodivergence. Focusing on just the intellect is a narrow scope, and doesn't fully encompass the experience of giftedness, as it actually exists. Myself, and others are coming out to advocate for changing the name, since the term giftedness comes with many of the negative perceptions (elitism, etc) you mention here. From a gifted adult (who beliefs giftedness IS neurodivergent, not better than or separate from it), thanks for sharing your perspective.
To be neurodivergent, in particular autistic, is to possess a "spiky" skill set. We do well, even excel in some narrow areas, but we have equally specific vulnerabilities or failings. If we possess "gifts", it's naive to think they come without cost, yet that's the mould we are cast into.
This video put it into a more culturally-specific context:
ua-cam.com/video/F0CXvtin-Ao/v-deo.htmlsi=xeoQa1KZmhoS_kjO
My experience is quite different...I've always been shy (I now realise that may be as a result of undiagnosed autism) especially when I was younger. But the ridicule came anyway. I think people are off the mark a little bit when they make arguments like "people are justifiably angry because you keep rubbing it in their faces" and are making a bit of a straw man argument, as my experience is that people hate you just for the virtue of "being gifted" for want of a better word, regardless of the identity you chose. As an adult I chose to identify as that as a way to take ownership of the hate being thrown at me. At least that's what I feel in relation to whether we should adjust ourselves for neurotypicals. It just sounds like anothe claim of "they're not the problem, you're the problem" which the emerging discussion of double empathy shows is one of the primary ways that autistic people are oppressed.
Although I did actually like your main point about how it made you feel like you weren't good enough. I guess I didn't have that because my parents never put any value on succeeding for better or worse. I'll certainly think about that when I'm talking about my own son.
I started to say that I have an odd nak for A for some reason but don't understand it
I have chafed at the label since it was placed on me in elementary school. We were taken out of class (in front of everyone to further ostracize the already othered kids), taken to a room with seven other kids to be given special attention and extra attention (which is incredibly unfair, especially given that most of us were already doing well in school), and then on the first day we were literally told we had bigger "pots" than other kids that could "hold more information" (which even then I knew was bs).
I made a friend or two, but others got big headed about it and looked down on the kids in regular classes. When I returned to usual classes after starting to fall behind academically at the height of my abuse I quickly realized that it had as much to do with learning styles as anything else. My bodily kinesthetic ADHD friend Sean was incredibly intelligent but not "gifted" because he didn't achieve well on standardized tests like I did.
I feel lucky to have had the individualized education for the years I did, but I'm confident that any kids who would've been given that opportunity would have benefited from it.
Thank you for highlighting the most absurd part of my "gifted" program, I was also pulled off into a small group, but STILL not even challenged to the appropriate level. I remember envying the protagonist of the 90s sitcom "Smart Guy," an elementary schooler who'd been allowed to attend high school. I was repeatedly told I had a "college reading level" but only given work for the grade above me, so all the program did was make me accustomed to passing things with ease and recieving an abundance of praise. This, of course, only served to make life much harder once I started being appropriately challeneged in other subjects, (looking at you, math! 😂 Pretty sure I have dyscalculia honestly, didn't even know thag existed growing up!)
Of course! It's really gratifying to hear other people talking about this subject including yours. It's so frustrating that teachers and other adults can't seem to just think of children as people - like, we absolutely realize that adults can be good at one thing, while struggling at others, but children are so frequently lumped into "smart" or "not.smart" boxes.
I was never labeled a gifted kid, and finishing school and college was a long and not so easy path for me.
I only accidentally took an IQ test as a grownup and found out: whoops - gifted.
So for me that was somewhat nice on the one hand - but on the other hand it was also like: Are you f. kidding me?!
Your character points (spiky skillset) idea definitely describes me well. I may be a quick pattern spotter and simplifier, but my memory is rather bad (I really have to rote-learn facts if I need to retain them), and my reading fluency ... okay at best.
What, however, with persons who are just once-exceptional? Only gifted?
I had that sort of guy at school. Great at every subject except PE. Relaxedly interested in everything really. Breezed through school and college and became a professor.
Do you think that those people are probably also spiky (autistic), even if it's not so immediately visible, or is that a different sort of animal?
How would you judge the topic giftedness with regards to those people?
I never took an IQ test, but it was recognized when I was in preschool that I had “above-average intelligence”. Thanks to academic games on the TI-99/4A computer that my parents got in 1982 (when I was 3), I was reading on a 1st-grade level when I ENTERED kindergarten. Even though SOCIALLY, I was WAY BEHIND after kindergarten, the school couldn't justify holding me back because academically, I was SO FAR AHEAD. When I was in 3rd grade, I was in a combined 3rd-/4th-grade class with one teacher; all the students in the combined class were judged to be capable of studying on their own while the teacher taught the other grade.
I never felt EXTERNAL pressure from being classified as “above average intelligence”, but that was mainly because I put the pressure on myself. My brother had been diagnosed with moderate/borderline severe “mental retardation” (IQ 55) when he was 4 & I was 6. After a year in the Early Childhood Development Center (ECDC), a special ed. preschool, my brother joined me at Linden Elementary when I started 2nd grade, although he was in a separate special ed. class from then through high school. This being 1986, my classmates believed that my brother’s disabilities must be contagious & they treated me accordingly. Excelling academically was my way of proving to myself that my classmates were wrong & I didn't have the same disabilities that my brother did.
You can have a spiky skillset and still breeze through school. I never had to really apply myself but I definitely noticed that some topics were more difficult for me in a very noticeable way, especially anything to do with visual and kinaesthetic information. I recall that we had to build these little robots in physics class and it was the only class I almost failed because I remember I couldn't even understand how to properly connect the cables. It should be noted that I also wrote a paper about string theory for physics class, which should really tell you about the contrast between the two. I think my friend at the time was also possibly autistic because she really struggled to keep up with all the abstract classes such as maths (I was good but never amazing at maths) but she absolutely thrived in that one class we had in physics when we had to build robots. No one performed as well as she did. Yet here I am as an adult who can barely figure out how to swap light bulbs sometimes, and I really struggle to understand instruction manuals but I can understand complex philosophical ideas and literary subtexts. I also struggle to apply myself to keep performing a boring task even if it's a means to an end such as rote memorization for learning a language or practice for learning how to play the guitar. My issue is that I grasp the result before I get there so I just feel overwhelmed having to also perform these steps in real time rather than just imagining what needs to be done. This difficultly to apply myself made school life increasingly difficult as I went though high school and university, because I was expected to keep up my learning but now that I started having to apply myself especially if it was boring or required rote memorization made it extremely difficult to do so.
Yes, "gifted" can hurt. It was really confusing for me to hear "Why are you so stupid if you're supposed to be so smart?" the two first years in primary school (my first teacher deeply disliked the two bilingual kids in her class - my best friend and me were also the two who could already read). I had been tested by psychologists so I could start school one year early, and all it got me was seven years of relentless bullying. #AutDHD
Are there going to be any W.W.S.C.D. bracelets sold in your YT store soon?
No bracelets as yet, but apparel, cushions, phone covers, caps....
www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/67506389-wwscd-what-would-sheldon-cooper-do
Labels like that are dangerous if they don't also arrive with the support to help realise that potential. For me it's always been the opposite. Everything I have achieved or tried to achieve has somehow appeared to constitute a threat to someone. It seems you can't be gifted, blind and female (and possibly autistic). If teachers and parents are really to help realise children's potential, perhaps they should actually do the work to support that child instead of watching them achieve, sitting by and congratulating themselves or being disappointed if their expectations go unmet while actually doing very little. Thought-provoking work as usual Quinn.
That's an excellent point. It strikes me that my "gifted" class was overwhelmingly male and people from affluent backgrounds.
BS ..
The term probably triggers the majority because because it is hard for them to imagine such a different way of relating to the world. I imagine they just think it means 'more clever', which understandably might annoy them. What they don't realise is the context - the tremendous difficulties that can come with having a high IQ, high capacity for abstract thought and sensitivity to ones surroundings. A different word for it would probably be helpful.
Gifted did not become a label until the 80s, when I was being much bored with school and demand avoidant. My little sister was put into TAG, her mother was proud of that label, not sure how she felt about it. Her eldest is level 2 autistic, but so far she has not sought a diagnosis, and I do not know if she even thought about it. I know that in grade school by fourth grade, I would have had the label. Did I need it? Not really, I already knew by middle school, that I was not living up to my potential. It is a long story, and I tend to over share, so I will stop the story here. Let’s just say without challenging subjects in school, I thought being babysat for 7 hours a day too much to deal with the other social pressures of school
the poblem I see is thinking "gifted" is an achievement. It is not, you're born with it like being blonde or having down syndrome. People shouldn't get offended or intimidated by other's characteristics but here we are. If I say I've learned a second language by myself I get praised, if I say I'm gifted I get weird looks, but I'm able to do that because I'm gifted. Anyone else tired of this irony? I certainly am
The gifted program ideology was a mistake. I had a similar experience to you. Being treated both as a defect and a genius alternately does a number on your ego formation.
🤔 Gift means poison in German🤔
The reason I don't think the term "gifted" makes much sense when referring to autistic people is that it implies something was given for free, with no strings attached. However, that very much hasn't been my experience. There certainly are things I can do much more easily than many others, but there also are many things they would consider easy, yet I absolutely can't manage. It's hardly a gift if there's a hefty price to pay. To be clear, I don't necessarily resent that - for the most part, it's a fair balance in the end. However, I've found myself wondering many times if I'd be better off with a more even skillset, especially at times when my limitations became painfully obvious for everyone to see.
Ultimately, I think it makes most sense to enable everyone to work to their strengths as much as possible. That obviously requires a degree of openness and honesty about the things we do well and the things we don't. However, if it comes to the point where we're possibly discouraging people around us from exploring their own skillset, that's a bad thing. That way, others never get to progress and learn - possibly finding out that their strengths have some overlap with our own. Since that can happen all too easily if we're too forward about our own strengths, the social taboo against bragging makes perfect sense to me. I don't mind speaking up when my particular skillset would be useful in a situation, but I'll always encourage others to try things and ask me for help if they need it. Generally, that seems to come across much better. It's also lead to a few people discovering skills of their own they never knew about - and I love seeing that.
The G word turned up in what later became a minefield of euphemisms. It's right there with "Special". To the extent that I actually recall people pull things like, "My sister's child is... ...autistic." When in reality the kid had Downs.
Everything got muddled. And it was fine, so long as you said it with a misty glow in your voice like an Enya album cover. You could use any fantastical words, so long as you used the correct daydreamy tone, so everyone knew you were sidestepping describing a tragedy.
"Kerry's son Eric stands *tall*." 🙄
I think the gifted label can be useful in an academic setting for children. In my map, the label is "High Data Metabolism" and is useful in the sense that giving certain children more data to consume can sate them in a way that leads to better outcomes for everyone.
I think it is only useful for adults in a retrospective sense, a way of placing one's own childhood trauma within a certain context.
It grates on me with the same shrill repulsion as any hierarchy, the same idea of any innate superiority in any context. Being "gifted" as an adult doesn't increase your likelihood of being relevant or correct, it just means you get more agitated and hungry if your brain doesn't have information to chew on. Speaking in self-reference as an adult, of being gifted, reads to me as being painfully irrelevant to just about any helpful topic other than trauma and the pain of misplaced expectations.
As Touchstone says, "The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool." In my view, any adult that doesn't deeply grok this yet isn't paying quality attention, or is trapped in their traumas.
Well oh my, you have just been on a streak of videos stabbing into the core of me haha.
I was a "gifted" child. It ended up taking a rather malignant turn for me as well. I had behavioral problems as I tested high in my classes but routinely failed them as I never did the homework. Not as a protest mind I still can't remember to file my paperwork on time (if at all). But with all my teachers insisting I was brilliant but uncooperative and my family suggesting I was "rebelling against slow teaching" had other knock on social effects.
When I was young kids made fun of me sure, but the superiority complex combined with a large frame and aggressive personality made me more of a jerk than any of them. Took me until adulthood to see it and make some correcting moves; I still feel echoes of the old me though. It's an ongoing process.
I wasn't physically imposing, in fact I was late to grow height & bulk & I've always been one to talk my way out of trouble as a result, but otherwise we share a lot of parallels you & I, Eric. Thanks for commenting again💜