To answer your question on why Elphaba was not always played by a white woman - Idina Menzel is Jewish, and the casting was done with the intention of being a commentary on the historical characteristics of witches being very intertwined with caricatures of Jewish looks
This is fair, and i think the story really does lend itself to casting a black queer lead. And it hits a little bit different, but for some it hits even more deeply. I would make this the rule: Elphaba should be played by someone who has been marginalized, but specifically whose marginalization is such that it is visible to anyone on first glance.
The “good witch” can also be an allegory to “good woman.” Glinda is considered “the good woman” for upholding the oppressive powers, and Elpheba is “the wicked witch” or “the evil woman” for refusing to bow to them.
Reminds me of that video where a gay twink made out with someone he thought was a muscle guy only to discover it was a butch lesbian who thought he was a girl 😅
That’s why I love the No One Mourns the Wicked song. The whole “And Goodness knows the Wicked's lives are lonely, Goodness knows the Wicked die alone, It just shows, when you're wicked, You're left only on your own” sounds very much like she’s singing about herself and not Elphaba
as one of your cis het white male fans it’s my duty to play cod while listening to the dialectical deconstruction of a broadway adaptation so that i don’t turn gay
Correlating attractiveness and gender conforming appearance to wickedness is so fascinating. I was just reading a paper on this exact issue in the medieval/tudor eras. A person’s beauty was seen as being directly favorited by god. If a person was seen as ugly, if they were disabled, had a noticeable disease, they were being rejected by god and favorited by the devil. It’s so strange how that same general idea, as antiquated as it is, is still seen in society today.
this in general is true cos everyone is made in Gods image so the intentions is true but whom the true God truly is could not care less about looks lmaoo trust me. They knew you before you knew you so how can what you have allowed to shape your face make them judge you? A created God could not fathom that cos they lack the understanding.
Idina Menzel made sense with the original casting, as did Shoshana Bean who followed her, because Elphaba is also meant to be an exploration of Jews in the folklore of witches and as the persecuted in the rise of nazism. Same way Nessa Rose was meant to represent the disabled community amid the rise of nazism. Two witches, two of the represented communities persecuted
So does Cynthia Erivo as being a black woman she has in so many ways especially in the 18th century had been marginalised and persecuted and not even seen or treated as human and there are still characterisations of black people as beast
Really like your analysis! I think a lot of people dislike Glinda because, in actuality, they are more like her than they are like Elphaba. Most people think that they would be able to stand up in the face of injustice. I imagine Elphaba during "Defying Gravity" as the friend willing to chain themselves to a tree and get arrested to save the forest. While you may be willing to make a Facebook post to spread awareness or even write a stongly worded letter to congress, how many people are actually willing to give up their friends, family, housing, safety, and career prospects for a cause? Most people wouldn't go with Elphaba in the end, even if they had nothing to lose (see poor people in the US voting Republican based on what they could gain if they stay in their lane). Even if Glinda wasn't in line to gain political power, I still think she wouldn't have gone with her
Yes, I had similar thoughts while watching the film. I see quite a bit of Glinda in myself. I even remember having a visceral reaction to Elphaba speaking out against the new professor in class--my first instinct is to be quiet, and avoid getting in/causing trouble. Part of that is a trauma response, but I think I value safety and security much like Glinda does.
Yeah but the fact that she does gain power and maintain power by doing this makes it worse. Your average person is just not willing to put themselves at risk of losing what little they have. Glinda participates in the fascistic system in Oz because it personally benefits her to collaborate with fascists. She isn’t just a bystander to oppression, she upholds it when it gives her power.
@@stephenpaul668 I partially agree with that take, though I think its an entirely different point than what I was referencing within my comment since its post-"willyouflyawaywithme" I guess I would want to question the overall benefits of working within the system that's in place, then eventually helping to dismantle it. At the end of the day, she did help in the removal of both the wizard and madame morrible from their positions of power. On that note, with most civil rights causes, there is a need for people to help within the established system in order for the outside voices to be heard. It's up to your own morality on whether or not the ends justify the means and I personally don't think theres a super clear answer. I haven't read the book in a hot minute so I don't remember if they go into what the political landscape is after that regime is removed, but I know they don't provide too much info on that in the musical, other than the confirmation of madame morrible being imprisoned and the wizard being sent away. So based on that, I can't fully confirm whether she installs a new anti-fascist government in their place, or if the cycle continues. We can hope it would be the former based on what she has learned, but thats all speculation.
I disagree completely, I dislike Glinda because everything ‘kind act’ in the first movie was conditional and self serving but she played it like they were best friends and she actually valued that. Elphaba did hence why doing favours in return but with Glinda it was conditional even if she showed some ‘care’ and ‘emotions’ to the friendship. The kicker is when she saw Elphaba’s journey and she KNEW who she was out of everyone in emerald city and oz and had the nerve to leave her friend and make her doubt herself when she (elphaba) wanted Glinda to be there for her in her time of need. And so Elphaba had to deal with with the hardship on her own without her so called ‘best friend’. Now apparently this changes in part 2 and Glinda does help from afar but back to your point, just because someone doesn’t like a character it doesn’t mean it’s because they see those traits in them. In my personal experience I dealt with a ‘best friend’ for decades through thick and thin and then when something devastating happened to me and I needed basic support it was crickets. So a lot of friendships I find have some conditional aspects to them rather than just being there for people and being authentic. And that’s just life I guess, it’s just a hard lesson to learn when you wear your heart on your sleeve.
I really appreciate what John M Chu did to Oz. The stage play uses the metaphor of the dragon clock to hint at the mechanisms of the government that we'll be privy to, but Chu places these small hints all over the place. When Elphaba has her "magic outburst" at Shiz, we briefly see a bas relief of the Wizard fall off the wall where we see there was previously a mosaic of three animals.
Actually it was four animals and dressed in different colors which evoked the mental image of the 4 founders of Hogwarts. This clearly states animals founded Shiz.
🤓☝🏼 um, actually, it's four Animals! But no absolutely, I think these are new threads/expanded moments left to tie specifically into Act 2, and I'm super excited to see where they go! Also very excited to see Ariana's takes on Thank Goodness and I'm Not That Girl Reprise.
Glinda's story feels so relevant in the context of the most recent US election. And, to borrow from another iconic musical, Nice is different than Good.
Elphaba, I can see doing colourblind casting because she is green at the end of the day, so you can make her Asian, or black, or native, or ashkenazi or any ethnicity really. But MY personal gripe that I have gone on for years about is that Fiyero, a MacGuire original character, IS EXPLICITLY A POC WHO IS DISCRIMINATED AGAINST FOR THAT! His skin is one of the things that makes him similar to Elphaba rather than the Gilkinese (Glinda’s ethnic group in Oz) majority in Shia university. He’s not just a foreign prince, but he is a explictly ethnic one with “ochre” skin and tattoos that tie into his ethnicity (think Inuit or Māori facial tattoos). So to have Fiyero as anything other than a radicalized character is … oh it sits worse with me than Elphaba any day. That was why he was also different. Elphaba and him both faced discrimination in the novel & in the musical they removed any “issues” from him other than internal conflict. Giving him an external conflict just…. I will never not bring it up because he’s such an important character to me in the books. He, his wife, his family, and their home is WHY Elphaba is the witch of the WEST. It’s just? It feels like such a missed opportunity.
Thank you, that also didn't sit right with me. Book Fiyero is coded to be indigenous (plus the fact that "Winkie" is a slur in the Wicked book's canon). I feel like the indigenous angle is an important one to the commentary on the Wizard of Oz books, because the Wizard feels like a deeply colonial fantasy, what with all the showing up to a foreign land and immediately being crowned their magical king because the natives so amazed at your little parlour tricks.
I also feel like it says more about Glinda’s attraction to him while also being so against Elphaba and her appearance. It drives home the point that Glinda is only willing to overlook “flaws” or signs of not being good if it personally benefits her which for Fiyero is a love interest but if he were any other guy she wouldn’t care about him
omg thats so interesting, I didn't get why Elphaba and him connected in the movie, and as much as I love Jonathan Bailey, I wish they had gone for a poc/ indigenous casting for him
9:14 one of the things I think the movie made clearer than the stage musical is that Galinda doesn't just hate Elphaba because it's popular to do so: Galinda is _jealous_ of Elphaba, and Elphaba is probably the only peer (or less than) in Galinda's life so far to deny catering to Galinda. Elphaba (plus Madame Morrible, Galinda's idol) came in like a wrecking ball to Galinda's worldview, and it's so fun.
They don't get it because it doesn't fit in their simple narrow minded world view of "ugly outspoken woman=Bad, Beautiful submissive woman=good" and they're also too busy defending predators
This is the most accurate and nuanced take of Glinda I've seen so far. So many TikTok takes saying things like "Glinda are for the girls who do good but are taken the wrong way" like no, she (in part 1) is taken exactly the way she wants to be
To be fair, I feel like Glinda took Dorothy on that trip to overthrow the wizard, so maybe she’s the Megyn Kelly of the timeline where she has some sense of morals.
To add on your point about Glinda being punished, at the end of the musical, (far as she knows) her best friend/maybe Gf is dead and Fiyero is dead. Glinda lost the most important people in her life and she will be the "Wicked (one) die alone". And while its hinted she will set out to do all the good Elephaba was unable to, at the end of it all she is alone.
When I saw the stage show my impression was that she was a co-conspirator on Elphaba’s faked death and as such knows it happened, but she knows she’ll never be able to see Elphaba again because it would ruin the death-faking for someone so famous to visit so ultimately your point holds Not sure which one of us is misremembering
@@adoragrayskull @voidify3 Elephaba out right says she wishes she could tell Glinda her and Fiyero are alive but Fiyero points out its better everyone thinks they are dead.
Fun fact; when the Queen died in the UK all shows that night had to announce the death and hold a minutes silence. Then goes straight into those opening lyrics *Good News! Shes deeeeeead!* 😅 perfect, no notes 😂
@lilymoon2829 tbf what else could they do? They did the announcement and silence as requested, then got on with it. Just had the most unfortunate opening lyrics of all time in that scenario 🤣 Also love Dan Howell's tour that was happening concurrently, had a similar situation; his opens with him coming out yelling *We're. All. Dooooooomed.* also his fanbase, myself included, weren't exactly weeping over the Queens death anyway (don't get me wrong I wasn't cheering or celebrating, it's just like eh i didn't know ya know?) So made for another hilariously awkwardly dark opening to a show 😂
This is by far one of the most nuanced analyses of Glinda that I've come across. I agree with much of what's been presented here. Glinda's fixation with the perception of goodness, her performative activism, and her misalignment of cruelty and kindness are all foundational. However, i think Megyn Kelly is the wrong Fox allegory. I think Glinda is much more of a Gretchen Carlson. Carlson was, like Kelly, instrumental in the sexual harrassment saga depicted in Bombshell. It was she who some say lit that particular fuse once the network began disabusing her of their loyalty. Much like how Oz being disabused of its Wicked Witch and Wizard allowed Glinda to fill the power vacuum we see, taking shape in No One Mourns the Wicked. I think that Glinda's fundamental desire is not for power in a political sense, as some may suggest, but for comfort and security. She believes she can obtain this by checking off boxes on a list of preceivable goodness. Always maintain the facade of feminine poise, pursue a course of study that is sophistixated enough to earn respect and have concrete application, yet be careful enough not to appear so intellectual that you risk alienating the men who can ensure that security. Popular is the first time we see her deviate from these notions. In helping Elphaba, who is so unlike her, we see her willingness to help another obtain the security she feels is so paramount. Not necessarily act out of a foundational political acumen. That is why the empathy they have for one another is genuine. Glinda is becoming a liberal, but she's not quite there yet. Had she spent more time learning before the Emerald City, who knows what decision she could've made. But up to this point, she has existed in a bubble that Elphie has just barely begun to seep through. So when the Wizard promises that the two of them can live together in comfort and splendor, why should Glinda believe otherwise? The system he upholds has always protected her. Cared for her. Kept her safe. She has yet to grasp that Elphie is the Wizard's ideological other. Sure, her friend looks different, and they disagree the tiniest bit over the Animals. But the Wizard isn't bad. He just wants to make Oz great again. Elphie is just a lib overreacting. But if she'd just apologize, they can have fairytale lives. They can be adored. Glinda doesn't conceive yet that every fairytale needs a viloain. After Elphie defies gravity, though, it will become clear that this isn't true. In Maguire's novel, there is a scene in which Boq and Elphie discuss Glinda at length over tea. To paraphrase, Elphie says that there's a closet (heh) that Glinda retreats to in her mind when what she knows to be true and what she thinks she should do conflict with one another. Thank goodness is essentially her mind palace. And so, as long as her bubble is intact, she allows herself to be banal in the face of the wiizard's evil. She's not a bigot for voting for lowrr grocery prices and gas. Her queer and POC friebnds might be affected by the wizard's policies, but from her view, their small discomfort doesn't outweigh the good of Oz as a whole. She may dislike the Wizard, but his policies work. Until they don't. Elphie's death and the Wizard's departure pop the bubble. She is Carlson, unceremoniously booted after years of paying her dues and ignoring inherent cracks in the plaster. She will try to take action, but after years of being successfully, if reticently complicit, the viability of that action remains unclear . Unlike Kelly and Jenner, Carlson hasn't had a cyclical relationship with conservative press since leaving Fox. She is a former queen who stands publicly and professionally alone and apart for her latent action against a system she was ingrained in. Much like Glinda descending on mumchkinland alone.
I instantly started crying at the beginning of the movie because of the fascist elements. All that was running through my head was the idea that (some) people are going to celebrate the deaths of undocumented immigrants and transpeople that way over the next few years.
The Ozdust/Dancing Through Life party scene also definitely took some inspiration from 1920s Weimar Germany if you look at the fashion the extras are wearing. The movie mostly taking place on a school campus smartly obscures the time period. Like real college students, it makes sense that Shiz students are treated and dismissed by those with political power like they're living inside a bubble.
Especially if they decide to add in more book elements. Which could be a good idea, with Act II being so much shorter… could use more fleshing out since it develops at breakneck speed.
@@8114梦见It’s very likely that most of the expanding will happen in part two because John Chu, the director, has announced there will be two new songs. Meaning that we will likely see a lot more content added to flesh out Act 2.
I wish they kept Prince Fiyero othered like in the novel...he is described as having blue tattoos and non white skin (interpreted by some as Indian, brown, black etc.)
Ehh, I get it but - Johnathon Bailey was the right cast call. It is exceptionally hard to pull off that egotistical gaston persona while still having it be a level of endearing. I personally feel it is the most difficult character type to play. To find someone who can balance that and sing and exude such sexuality across all genders is so so rare.
@JaiProdz idk if you guys wanna be so nitpicky then that's on yall. I'm glad they didn't just cast based purely on looks/skin color but on talent. A good fiyero is so hard to find that's why Diggs is still known as THE fiyero. It's easier to replace glinda and elphaba than it is to replace fiyero.
Tbh, that’s most people in the public eye. Even normal people online have this same perspective in terms of how they’re perceived on social media. Although I don’t think Taylor Swift is a direct comparison, I do think she and white women like her are closer to being like Glinda than Megan Kelly. It’s very clear where Megan Kelly stands. She’s more of a Madame Morrible character if anything.
Fun fact - Maguire states two separate incidents that inspired him to write this book. In the first Gulf War, the news was calling Sadam Hussain the next Hitler, and that he was WICKED. It made him ponder how wicked something must be to get you to abandon your lofty ideals to stop it. Second, there was a news story about 2 boys around 11 years old stoning a 2 year old boy, and again the news called them WICKED. He wondered what the nature of wickedness was, where does it come from? Can you be born wicked, or can fate turn you wicked? He said he had to explore these ideas in a book for his own sanity. I put this in a reply to another comment but it stands on its own I'm pretty sure the reason why she isn't played by a black actor more often is because (having read the books and not seen the play) with the Animals, Maguire specifically leans towards American racial identity politics. At one point when Elphaba is explaining to Boq why she's helping Dillermond, she feels Boq is being obtuse and gets frustrated and leaves. Then Boq "looks around the restaurant and realizes... There's no black peo- I mean Animals in this restaurant." I feel Maguire was intentional with his writing, saw an opportunity to allude to more than one minority, and the green skin is supposed to represent a disfigurment or disability, particularly one that is rare or unique. That's why in the book her sister is born without arms, and it why when the play diverges from this, using a wheelchair instead is pretty appropriate. While both groups are oppressed, one is able to find solidarity in community, while the other finds solitude as a pariah. It also makes Elphaba's (who in the book lives a life of poverty) an even more appropriate foil to Glinda the perfectly beautiful. Bonus Fun fact - Maguire, who also helped with the play, is a married, gay roman catholic (retired) choir director.
More fun facts - -The largest omission in the play/movie from the book is a Dwarf with device called The Clock of the Time Dragon. Annnnd it's pretty much "Tom Bombadil" from Lord of the Rings, so was probably cut for very similar reasons. -in the book, Elphaba identified as a scientist - after Dillamond - and firmly rejected being a witch. At one point she strategically accepts the title... begrudgingly. But she insisted that she was not. -in the books, Elphaba's mum was heir to the position of Eminant Thropp, the matriarch of Munchkinland. She hated being and didn't want the position so she abdicated and married an impoverished traveling preacher. -third, I can't believe you're still reading this but. Even tho Elphaba's mum was promiscuous, the Wizard still felt like he needed to Bill-Cosby her. After that, her mum and her dad were in a thrupple with this other guy named turtle heart -still reading? Jesus. The thrupple has a third kid, Elphaba's lil brother Shell and he's perfectly healthy. Then Turtle Heart gets brutally murdered
Just dropping by to say this insight on the world of Wicked in the book and its inspirations is very much appreciated. I want to get around to reading the series eventually. It seems a lot of political commentary was simplified and omitted in the musical adaptation.
The fact that people are JUST NOW realizing this show is not only political, but EXTREMELY QUEER…have you people been living under a rock? Also to answer your question “Why was Elphaba never played more by women of color: witches were rooted in antisemitism. Everything about the stereotypical witch was a Jewish stereotype. Idina is Jewish. Her being cast was a direct commentary on it. Cynthia being cast also brings to light how Elphaba is commentary on how society STILL treat black women/women of color. *That’s why Glinda’s eyes are green in the original poster for the musical!* You have to be eagle eyed to spot it, but it’s a small detail that shows “Good” people…are probably more evil than the people in society that are being labeled “evil”.
Has some one said thats the reason why glindas eyes are green - equating green with evil in a show that says the green person is good (since it may foreshadows that deep down glinda has a little green-ness too ) I do think in 1939 the witch in the movie - and now recognised iconography that helped single handely promote this witch sterotype - can be rooted in antisemitism but that's not all witches e.g pre 1939 and significant witch history like witch hunts and cauldrons which are a bit more Shakespeare hags I do thing idina menzels life would influence her but not every elphaba has been Jewish , I love the new interview where she said she walseo read the book I do think anyone can play elphaba because they'll bring their own otherness to it , but also following the film the wicked witch would've been normal of not green (even if people could choose to act pike green is fine) and normalness is still an ideal , having diverse cast in wicked reflects that normalness in new oz can be anything (but in the maguire books people are still quite xenophobic or judgemental to people in different parts of oz , i feel like the maguire book highlighted a lot of fickle behaivours of society just deciding things arent ok and the people who have to suffer for it ) but truly some people do have the real lived experience from birth of being odd in a room for a completely natural feature in a non historical context ( depending on where you live you might not even if you are a different complexion) and I felt that was really honed in on up close by the acting. I'm mixed but I'm also fat , the millionth time in someone thought pointing it out with 'fatty' was peak comedy it was tiring and boring and still sad, strange things like mooing or elaborate bullying still sad but creative , I loved elphaba brining in her version of an ' yes I am 6ft tall , the weather's great' card was amazing whoever is playing elphaba
And I don't know if people know this because it's been a fact of American history that has been hidden for so long but the Salem witch trials actually persecuted black woman on the basis that they were actually witches and you know what happened to them they were lynched in mass numbers. It wasn't white woman who were getting persecuted and hunted down to be hung in trees and squares.
No shade, but how is Wicked queer? I really don't understand why people want these characters who are clearly hetero to be lgbtq so bad. Elphaba and Glinda are FRIENDS not lovers and they always have been depicted that way. Yes, in this adaptation there are queer characters for sure but this movie isn't for "the gays" it's for everyone ESPECIALLY black women and honestly a lot of times when there's a friendship between a white woman and black woman, there's always speculation over the black woman's sexuality as though she just HAS to be sexually attracted to the white friend. They made it very evident through casting Cynthia and how they told the story that she is HETERO.
@@BabyDoll-xx9rk people talk the few kisses in the book And also for the musical their songs are based of off romantic duets is something people are also saying that I’ve seen recently The outsider subtext can apply to many marginalised groups too
@@BabyDoll-xx9rk in book, they actually kiss two times and the queer lenses applied to wicked have been there away before cynthia was cast. it’s simply part of the play, part of one valid interpretation. and cynthia is a queer woman btw.
While I do think it’s amazing to see a black woman play Elphaba, the history of the character of the wicked witch of the west is rooted in anti semitism. With the pointy hat and prominent nose. So in a way having a Jewish woman like Idina Menzel play the character is pretty empowering too!
@@neveramæyes but in a play about Nazism, few of those persecuted were. This is not an argument to not cast a black woman, but an explanation for why casting a Jewish woman isn’t weaker representation
Now we have both! People have the opportunity to see both a Jewish and black woman take on the role. Prominent noses are caricatures used against both communities and the most striking detail of the character in general is her skin and how people other her for it. For a musical written to show how easily bias can lead to bigotry and violence, I think having different communities see how similar their struggles are boiled into one character rounds the message out very nicely.
Kristen Chenoweth made a song with Jennifer Hudson, in another timeline it would have been wild to see a powerhouse like Jennifer Hudson perform the green witch on broadway. Whitney Houston fought for Brandy to play Cinderella, but that’s bc she was executive producer.
Woah. She’d literally bring down walls of theatres with her voice. She’s a gift, born once a generation. Now i want her to record defying gravity. Have u heard her snippet from somewhere over the rainbow?
Well done, like always. I've been watching Cynthia Erivo interviews on YT (because she's the best), and the horribly racist comments, particularly about her looks, are insane. People are getting bold about their ugliness. On a more positive note, looking up Jonathan Bailey and finding out he is a beautiful person inside and out has been healing ❤
Wicked the book is pretty gay. Elphaba's and Glinda's implied relationship isn't the only one. There's two gay men in their immediate friend group that are fairly important in the first half. Elphaba's parents are also involved in a throuple with a man. Her father directly states that her sister is his favorite because she's likely a result of the two people he loved most (his wife and the other man in the throuple).
You are perfectly valid and capable on your own. Don't worry. Also: The banality of evil also teaches us that even if the evil inflicted is tremendous and monstrous, so monstrous in fact that we can hardly imagine it to have human orgin, it still has. We may wish that this evil, that these people who were capable of such heinous crimes were different from ourselves, somehow inherently more violent or more degenerate, but in the end they're not.
Megyn Kelly also accosted the Duggar girls about what Josh Duggar did to them and went out of her way to make Josh and his parents looks good. And you made me want to watch Wicked.
One the earliest comments I heard Megyn Kelly make is that having a black Santa is historically inaccurate because "Santa just is white... I mean, Jesus was a white man too." That just is false. So freaking false lol. And the fact that she can forcefully state that as if it is a fact is hilarious and infuriating
Glinda’s lines in Thank Goodness pretty much sums up how she feels about losing something important to get power and stability That's why I couldn't be happier. No, I couldn't be happier, Though it is, I admit The tiniest bit Unlike I anticipated. But I couldn't be happier, Simply couldn't be happier, Well, not "simply" 'Cause getting your dreams It's strange, but it seems A little, well, complicated. There's a kind of a sort of cost. There's a couple of things get lost. There are bridges you cross You didn't know you crossed Until you've crossed! Cant wait for part 2!
wicked is such a layer story, the books are… wild, but they’re such a good insight into the politics of Oz while waiting for the second movie. glinda is such an interesting character to me… how she starts the story promising herself not to “think”, how desperate she is to be liked by all she is willing to loose her individuality you begin to question if there’s an individual behind glinda at all or if she’s always set out to be a “fool” card like in the tarot deck, ready to adapt to whatever role she thinks will benefit her the most. just the fact there’s a difference between animals (lowercase) and Animals (uppercase) already is so impactful visually.
I dont comment a lot but I just wanted to say that your analysis was amazing and it was really nice to see you do the episode by yourself, the media analysis space could really use more people like you, I really loved this video and your content in general
I had never seen the musical or knew the plot of Wicked outside of the two iconic songs, but the oppression of the animals was so dark. Everytime Elphaba had visions of her professor in a cage, I died a little inside.
I saw someone say "Glinda looked so conflicted before throwing the torch on the witch effigy" and like Bestie. 😭I don't care how conflicted she looked when she burned an effigy of her dead friend, I care that she did it.
The video was definitely coherent and thought provoking, even when your by yourself your points are riveting to watch! I think Galinda as a character is truly fascinating. I always thought that people were oversimplifying her character both left and right. When I saw the show live as a kid, I never realized the obvious references to scapegoating that Dr. Dillamond as a character presented, but after watching the movie it smacked me in the face haha. Anyways, amazing episode! Thanks for the content 🩷💚
In defense of your kid self, the musical pacing is very very fast, and it doesn’t take a lot of time to dig into the concepts it presents on too deep of a level.
'...thinking once again about how intense the allegory of Elphaba being green is to racism, why has Elphaba not always been played by a Black woman?' It's really gonna shiver your timbers to find out that Fiyero was whitewashed in the book-to-play adaptation process.
I don’t think that Elphaba was whitewashed in the play like Fiyero was in the film tho. Having a Jewish woman play Elphaba still feels relevant, although that has levels of weirdness to it as well.
The book has characters with red skin though too, in addition to the blue we see on Fiyero. I think they made the choice to make Elphaba have the only non-flesh toned skin for shorthand and simplification purposes.
@8114梦见 I would argue that they simplified the allegory to the point of tokenism. Because in the stage & movie adaptations, we now have a singular person with non-flesh toned skin, aligning herself with the only other marginalized group, which are Animals (who share the human characteristic of speech), and now there are some definite Unfortunate Implications going on.
@ I agree that the oversimplification is unfortunate. I see why they do it for short hand in the musical, but it takes away from nuance and leads to unfortunate interpretations… like you said. Absolutely agree.
I LOVED this!! So well-researched and presented. I especially loved your point about phrenology. It bugs me SO MUCH when people are critiquing others (who deserve it lol) but instead of using their bad actions as evidence of them not being great people they use their physical characteristics. Like someone’s smile or head size has NOTHING to do with how they act as a person and insulting a bad person’s “weird smile” is also insulting all the good people who also have that trait. We seriously need to stop equating beauty with morality
Glinda was willing to lose a small bit of popularity by becoming friends with Elphie because of her ultimate search for power, not because she was being "good" or selfless. She saw first hand how powerful elphie is, madam m's interest in her and wanted that too. Short term loss for long term gain. She only felt guilty for giving elphie the witch hat after madam m gave her a training wand at the request of elphie. Even before getting on the train she says " this is your moment- okay im coming", showing she really doesn't care about elphie's gain unless it invloves her. once the wizard offered a spot in his kingdom for Glinda if she complied, she was comfortable dropping elphie. Ultimately anything "good" done by Glinda is for her own selfish reasons, not for love or care and kindness. Maybe along the way she grew a bond with elphie, but not enough to abandon her self serving ways. Someone can do nice things and not be good, or be good and not do nice things.
As someone who 100% agrees with Matt's take, I think you are being too unfair towards Glinda in your assessment here. Especially by using the "okay, I'm coming" line. You are purposely hiding the fact that Elphaba invited her to come and insisted on it. Glinda said multiple times that she doesn't want to impose and Elphaba said "it doesn't matter, just get on the train". And what motivated Elphaba to do this? Reading Glinda's note that said "I hope your get your hearts desire." Elphaba is the one who couldn't imagine not bringing her best and first friend to the biggest moment of her life. At no point did Glinda ask to come along. She had been nothing but supportive of Elphaba doing well.
Your analysis of the Ozdust scene also removes so much of the emotional impact and would be bad storytelling. While her defiance of social norms is no way as impressive as Elphaba Defying Gravity, it is supposed to be the start of Glinda's arc to being a better person. We know how much Glinda values popularity and she risked everything to dance with Elphaba. She straight up told her friends "No" to abandoning Elphaba. She was doing more than Elphaba's own sister. So what if she did it because Elphaba got her her dream class? Does that mean that the dance/apology is no longer valid? Why? She clearly felt guilty and was willing to humiliate herself to show Elphaba that she was sorry/appreciative. Would you rather she keep the wand and not say anything??? Besides, at that point Glinda had no idea that Elphaba was going to meet the Wizard. Elphaba was powerful, yes, but Glinda had no idea that Morrible had intended to prepare Elphaba to meet the Wizard.
@@grandempressvicky6387I kinda disagree I've not gotten to matts take yet though. But glindas apology is not one that anyone else knows is an apology , she wouldn't admit to being mean infront of people ,only people seeing her as elphabas saviour in this moment. Between elphaba and glinda they were the only ones in the bedroom . To elphaba the person who did this to her was glinda wether or not glindas friends want glinda to stop or egged her on. But no one else will ever know glinda had ever had a mean bone in her body. We all know this is the best apology that will happen on screen and it has to be enough because it stopped the torment. She can change and feel bad but fuyero saying 'it's not your fault' plays a big part imo , if someone were responsible they would be bad so she goes to fix something she is actually at fault for.
@sophiel5559 , with your first paragraph, you are just assuming that. But the text itself is saying that Glinda is being genuine here. She is not supposed to be a saviour, and she is the first to show Elphaba decency and humanity. She didn't have to ditch Fiyero and leave the ballroom with just Elphaba to do this. And so what if nobody but Glinda's friends knew that she set Elphaba up? They are not the focus of the story, and those people would've bullied Elphaba for going to the ball, with or without the hat. Did you want Glinda to do a big speech about how she set Elphaba up to be humiliated and how she is sorry for it? I don't think Elphaba would appreciate such a public declaration. She is a fictional character limited by the confines of a script and screen time. There is only so much her writers can make her say to show she is sorry.
Matt you should definitely do more media analysis episodes like this one, cause by the end of it i was feeling about Wicked the same way i felt about The Zone of Interest and that's saying a lot.
9:30 To be honest, I doubt Glinda and Elphaba would never be together romantically because Glinda is always going to choose popularity over Elphaba and Elphaba is always going to choose doing the right thing over popularity. It was sadly never going to be healthy.
Okay, I just realized, (and this might be a well duh moment) that the two (that I consider) big cultural moment musicals of the last 20 years, Wicked and Hamilton, are literally the same plot??? Told by the “villain” who was once friends with the focal character. the narrator tries to work within the system and not cause a stir. I feel like broad strokes of Burr/Gilinda and Elphaba/Hamilton are so similar it’s so surprising I didn’t notice prior. Now I’m thinking, what does this say about our culture-particularly musical theatre culture-that this is the relationship dynamic and political questions that have persisted in the cultural mind the last 20-ish years?
I love musical theater, but it’s clear there are some really hard limits in terms of just how radical and boundary pushing they can be, especially if they are large stage productions that reach mainstream success on broadway.
Theatre attracts social rejects, who’re attracted to this storyline. It goes back way further than 20 years, it’s like every other Disney movie. Frozen, Encanto, Hunchback of Notre Dame etc. The main protagonist is a reject whose pain or “otherness” becomes their superpower. A narrator that’s an assimilationist trying to work the system is one popular trope-but the reject-to-superpower protagonist is the core.
4:49 I think part of the reason Idina Menzel was cast is because the casting directors at the time saw a lot of the things related to racism in the show as also being allegories for antisemitism, and Idina Menzel is Jewish
literally had to stop watching after this - gay man who loves idina menzel but doesnt know she’s jewish and then makes a comment abt the racism aspect 😭 gay men talking out of their ass once again
Honestly, I didn’t realize until the very end that this is the first video I had seen of yours without a guest. Very natural. I love to hear you talk, and the whole episode was well structured logically. I also stopped to watch bombshell, then watched wicked a second time, and now finished the video. Life is complex, and wild. Thankful For Spaces like this. And to Be holding space with the lyrics of defying gravity
What an episode! thank you so much! Glinda is Megyn Kellt absolutely and I dont have anything to comment or add to that bc you explain yourself perfectly. thank you for this video!!! I admire a lot and today even more. Greetings from Madrid, Spain!
As a disabled teen, both Elphaba and (for just this act--won't elaborate as to not spoil) Nessa Rose hit so hard for me in this movie. The first interaction between Glinda and Elphaba mirrors almost verbatim (just substitute "studying magic" for "studying science" and BAM) conversations I've had with a variety of people about my disability. Nessa Rose I relate to in a more literal sense, as trying to tell people not to help you and being ignored or feeling like you can't be normal was very common in my experience. So was having periods of desperation to escape otherness entirely. But Elphaba's whole journey feels much more emotionally resonant, given the theme of massive otherism, as well as how being marginalized permanently alters the way you see image vs cause. I admire Elphaba so much, and I cherish her so deeply. Anyone who's marginalized gets to defy Gravity with Elphaba, to be free. But I also think we'd all have a lot of people watching us leave and "hope we're happy", as they go off to grovel.
I also think that Glinda coming down in a bubble at the beginning of the film is also great symbolism of how some people especially the wealthy will shelter themselves inside their own bubbles to be oblivious to the happenings of the world around them to remain ignorant.
Loved the take! I genuinely felt the same way upon seeing the movie twice. It’s ultimately a tragedy of two best friends who are pulled in opposite directions. It’s giving very fox and the hound energy.
Just got out of the movies with my baby sister. We both just sobbed. It was so good and this commentary and dissection is the perfect dessert. So thankful for you Matt!
thank you for this! i’ve had very little interest in seeing wicked (i am a former theater kid who can’t stand musicals) but you’ve convinced me it’s probably right up my alley.
I always thought the implication from the end of the musical is that the three witches had sort of schemed out the ending they wanted, getting rid of the wizard and being able to live in peace. After the events of Act 1 there was no convincing the public Elphaba wasn't evil, so they instead went for toppling the current regime and installing Glinda instead, with all three witches being in on the scheme. Additionally, my impression from the musical was always that the time between Defying Gravity and Dorothy leaving Oz was really short. Like a few weeks at the most. I also thinking the whole Elphaba character is very muddled because in The Wizard of Oz she's explicitly one dimensionally evil, not just vengeful, and I feel like the musical Elphaba is very incompatible, or at least not close to enough was done to make them feel like the same person. And so the only way to square the two is for it to be an elaborate orchestration. This isn't to excuse any of Glinda's actions, but at least on stage I always got the impression that she and Elphaba remained friends throughout the events of The Wizard of Oz and were both keeping up appearances to the rest of Oz to achieve their mutual goal.
I just wanted to say I love your solo episodes, I'm always literally in awe of how well spoken you are and it's such a pleasure to listen to you, even if the subject itself isn't usually pleasing. Might sound super corny but knowing there are people out there with your kind of sensitivity really helps.
i think something missing from this video is that glinda begrudgingly respects elphaba from the start, she respects how she “doesn’t care” what anyone thinks about her, and she respects her power. and elphaba also respects glinda, which is why she wanted glinda to always come with her. elphaba has the raw power, and glinda has the respect, each of them have the one thing that the other really wants. in defying gravity, elphaba sings to glinda “and you can’t bring me down.” so i think her choosing not to go with elphaba wasn’t just choosing to stay comfortable and get into a position of power. i think glinda wanted to go with elphaba, but knew that she would hold her back in one way or another, because she would never be able to fully commit to her cause. i honestly think it’s better that she did that instead of lying, going anyway, and then backing out later. elphaba also respects glinda’s decision to stay. they both respect the fact that the other is going down a different path, which might be because they both know that neither of them are really going to change anything, and they both need to commit to their own individual happiness. another thing that i think is interesting is that if elphaba wasn’t green, she would most likely be just like glinda or worse, because elphaba comes from a position of privilege and wealth just like glinda. it shows that there really aren’t any differences between the two girls except for how society perceives them. their souls mirror each other, imo. anyway, i agree with most of this video, i just wanted to point out some of my observations from watching the movie and listening to the music.
I truly love this podcast so much, your commentary and analysis of literally anything is always so interesting, curious, genuine, and fun. Please never stop making these episodes!!
This content is why I subscribe to you, Matt! Thank you!. In the books Glinda ends up a pastry eating Karen. She's not evil like the Wizard and Morrible but rather a person of privilege with compromised morals.
I'm a WICKED tourist I guess you can say since I never even heard of it before they announced the movie but LOVED the movie so much and been searching all things wicked since which led me here. This video was great. Your points were valid and brought to my attention some things I hadn't even thought about and presented them in a clear, well stated and also very entertaining way.
I just love how Matt can't make it through a single podcast without a little Anita Bryant mention - that cracks me up 😂😂😂 Btw, 'Caitlyn Jenner running for governor, wtf kind of a timeline are we living in?' was BRUTAL, I felt that *deep* urgh Matt, you did GREAT by yourself 🎉🎉🎉
One of my the additions to Glinda’s character made by the movie that I find most fascinating is the scene in the balloon, where she chooses to pull the cord *with* Elphaba and hasten the escape attempt. In the heat of the moment, even though she spends the whole time before and afterward trying to advocate for the Wizard to Elphaba, when tossed into a high stress situation she almost instinctually chooses to go against her nature. Almost to suggest that without the space to consider her position and ambitions, Glinda’s “natural” desire is to help her friend.
This is by far my favorite video from you as someone who’s super into the analysis of film and media and also the progressive online space. I would honestly love to see more videos of your interpretation and analysis of films, since I think you’re specific perspective and niche is something I rarely see in youtube with such quality aside from people like withCindy, hbomberguy, Big Joel, etc.
I just realized something at around 12:00. Do you hear that? It sort of sounds like there's a link between the the goat doctor and what the government is doing to animals. Like scapegoating kinda...
You have the absolute best explanation of wicked I’ve seen and I’ve watched about 40 different videos and reviews since seeing the movie on Thanksgiving and I was so frustrated. Awesome! Bravo and you nailed it. Thank you so much. I agree with your review 10000000% by the way
Great job analysing and making the conversation about this piece of media relevant, thought provoking, deep and moving. Please more of this content Matt!
"How did I do?" Well, I'm someone who only saw the Judy Garland movie and none of the other iterations and I stayed til the end! Thanks for the Cliff's Notes synopsis. Plus, I always love your take on (whatever). 💚💗
I have a very obvious point to make on the topic of equating beauty to goodness; Glinda's name is clearly a variation of Linda, which comes from Spanish and means "pretty". It's on the same level as Ms. Morrible rhyming with Horrible, yk children's story-core lol but it shows how that dynamic of beauty=goodness was set up intentionally, even if The Wizard of Oz wasnt trying to deconstruct it yet.
Thank you for uploading a video on Thanksgiving! I was trying to figure out what to watch while making a small dinner for myself. Also, loved you perspective on Wicked
“Glinda is Megyn Kelly” is a WILD statement, but I’m proud to say you made your point very thoroughly, bravo 👏
No one asked
@@ville-c4u I did the other day, you meanie
@@ville-c4u No one pinned you.
WE DON'T CARE + MY CONTENT INFINITELY BETTER 😂
She had a redemption arc in act 2, though. Megyn Kelly has yet to do that.
To answer your question on why Elphaba was not always played by a white woman - Idina Menzel is Jewish, and the casting was done with the intention of being a commentary on the historical characteristics of witches being very intertwined with caricatures of Jewish looks
Also, calling people 'animals' is always used as a way to not emphatize with a groups of people
Hard eye roll 🙄🙄🙄
No it was because of racism
This is fair, and i think the story really does lend itself to casting a black queer lead. And it hits a little bit different, but for some it hits even more deeply. I would make this the rule: Elphaba should be played by someone who has been marginalized, but specifically whose marginalization is such that it is visible to anyone on first glance.
@KnowledgeSeeker78491 thats not true. it was written by jewish men and the antisemitic aspect is also huge.
@@redblaquegoldenyea like a Jewish woman with a huge "Jewish" nose. it was a huge part of the conversation at the time.
Glinda has the energy of those republicans who loves their queer children, their Black friends etc, but still votes for Trump anyway
THIS. RIGHT HERE.
She’s giving me grifter that realized becoming a republican has higher monetary value
Yesss, perfect summation of her character.
@@Paddriquein musical and novel both. Yes.
@@Paddrique And thus! Megyn Kelly. It ties nicely.
The “good witch” can also be an allegory to “good woman.”
Glinda is considered “the good woman” for upholding the oppressive powers, and Elpheba is “the wicked witch” or “the evil woman” for refusing to bow to them.
Trad wife glinda
omg so true
This is actually even more applicable to the book. Glinda marries well and continues her social climb after Shiz.
when I first came across you I thought you were a lesbian, but I hold space for the fact that you are actually a gay man
Reminds me of that video where a gay twink made out with someone he thought was a muscle guy only to discover it was a butch lesbian who thought he was a girl 😅
Snap 😂
Omg
Honestly the lines between how we look as community blurs so much sometimes. It’s happened to me in the club that I mistakenly hit on a twink
ideal gender presentation imo
That’s why I love the No One Mourns the Wicked song. The whole “And Goodness knows the Wicked's lives are lonely, Goodness knows the Wicked die alone, It just shows, when you're wicked, You're left only on your own” sounds very much like she’s singing about herself and not Elphaba
No one asked
It’s such a good opening song
@@KingOfGaymes hi, trans
@@ville-c4u Matt literally asked people to further the conversatio, wtf?
@@ville-c4u Yo mama
as one of your cis het white male fans it’s my duty to play cod while listening to the dialectical deconstruction of a broadway adaptation so that i don’t turn gay
we're all rooting for you, babe
No one asked
Are ya winning son?
We hope you’re r winning!!!
Live your truth queen
No one asked
Correlating attractiveness and gender conforming appearance to wickedness is so fascinating. I was just reading a paper on this exact issue in the medieval/tudor eras. A person’s beauty was seen as being directly favorited by god. If a person was seen as ugly, if they were disabled, had a noticeable disease, they were being rejected by god and favorited by the devil. It’s so strange how that same general idea, as antiquated as it is, is still seen in society today.
The original letter frank baum witch of the West had a deformity/disability - one eye (that could see the future)
What's the paper called tho
this in general is true cos everyone is made in Gods image so the intentions is true but whom the true God truly is could not care less about looks lmaoo trust me. They knew you before you knew you so how can what you have allowed to shape your face make them judge you? A created God could not fathom that cos they lack the understanding.
Idina Menzel made sense with the original casting, as did Shoshana Bean who followed her, because Elphaba is also meant to be an exploration of Jews in the folklore of witches and as the persecuted in the rise of nazism. Same way Nessa Rose was meant to represent the disabled community amid the rise of nazism. Two witches, two of the represented communities persecuted
Yep! Racism is racism
exactly thank you. ppl are blissfully ignorant and rather not do their research.
WE DON'T CARE + MY CONTENT INFINITELY BETTER 😂
Thank you for adding that information
So does Cynthia Erivo as being a black woman she has in so many ways especially in the 18th century had been marginalised and persecuted and not even seen or treated as human and there are still characterisations of black people as beast
Really like your analysis!
I think a lot of people dislike Glinda because, in actuality, they are more like her than they are like Elphaba. Most people think that they would be able to stand up in the face of injustice. I imagine Elphaba during "Defying Gravity" as the friend willing to chain themselves to a tree and get arrested to save the forest. While you may be willing to make a Facebook post to spread awareness or even write a stongly worded letter to congress, how many people are actually willing to give up their friends, family, housing, safety, and career prospects for a cause? Most people wouldn't go with Elphaba in the end, even if they had nothing to lose (see poor people in the US voting Republican based on what they could gain if they stay in their lane). Even if Glinda wasn't in line to gain political power, I still think she wouldn't have gone with her
Yes, I had similar thoughts while watching the film. I see quite a bit of Glinda in myself. I even remember having a visceral reaction to Elphaba speaking out against the new professor in class--my first instinct is to be quiet, and avoid getting in/causing trouble. Part of that is a trauma response, but I think I value safety and security much like Glinda does.
Yeah but the fact that she does gain power and maintain power by doing this makes it worse. Your average person is just not willing to put themselves at risk of losing what little they have. Glinda participates in the fascistic system in Oz because it personally benefits her to collaborate with fascists. She isn’t just a bystander to oppression, she upholds it when it gives her power.
@@stephenpaul668 I partially agree with that take, though I think its an entirely different point than what I was referencing within my comment since its post-"willyouflyawaywithme"
I guess I would want to question the overall benefits of working within the system that's in place, then eventually helping to dismantle it. At the end of the day, she did help in the removal of both the wizard and madame morrible from their positions of power. On that note, with most civil rights causes, there is a need for people to help within the established system in order for the outside voices to be heard. It's up to your own morality on whether or not the ends justify the means and I personally don't think theres a super clear answer.
I haven't read the book in a hot minute so I don't remember if they go into what the political landscape is after that regime is removed, but I know they don't provide too much info on that in the musical, other than the confirmation of madame morrible being imprisoned and the wizard being sent away. So based on that, I can't fully confirm whether she installs a new anti-fascist government in their place, or if the cycle continues. We can hope it would be the former based on what she has learned, but thats all speculation.
I disagree completely, I dislike Glinda because everything ‘kind act’ in the first movie was conditional and self serving but she played it like they were best friends and she actually valued that. Elphaba did hence why doing favours in return but with Glinda it was conditional even if she showed some ‘care’ and ‘emotions’ to the friendship.
The kicker is when she saw Elphaba’s journey and she KNEW who she was out of everyone in emerald city and oz and had the nerve to leave her friend and make her doubt herself when she (elphaba) wanted Glinda to be there for her in her time of need.
And so Elphaba had to deal with with the hardship on her own without her so called ‘best friend’.
Now apparently this changes in part 2 and Glinda does help from afar but back to your point, just because someone doesn’t like a character it doesn’t mean it’s because they see those traits in them. In my personal experience I dealt with a ‘best friend’ for decades through thick and thin and then when something devastating happened to me and I needed basic support it was crickets. So a lot of friendships I find have some conditional aspects to them rather than just being there for people and being authentic. And that’s just life I guess, it’s just a hard lesson to learn when you wear your heart on your sleeve.
I LOVE this take!!
I really appreciate what John M Chu did to Oz. The stage play uses the metaphor of the dragon clock to hint at the mechanisms of the government that we'll be privy to, but Chu places these small hints all over the place. When Elphaba has her "magic outburst" at Shiz, we briefly see a bas relief of the Wizard fall off the wall where we see there was previously a mosaic of three animals.
yes! that was one of my favorite shots of the movie!
Actually it was four animals and dressed in different colors which evoked the mental image of the 4 founders of Hogwarts. This clearly states animals founded Shiz.
And in the madame morrible class scene - its madame morribles coin from the Wizard
🤓☝🏼 um, actually, it's four Animals!
But no absolutely, I think these are new threads/expanded moments left to tie specifically into Act 2, and I'm super excited to see where they go! Also very excited to see Ariana's takes on Thank Goodness and I'm Not That Girl Reprise.
I loved this detail.
Glinda's story feels so relevant in the context of the most recent US election. And, to borrow from another iconic musical, Nice is different than Good.
I see what you did there :))
that’s such a good quote bc it’s from a witch as well 😭❤️
@@hail6888red said it first to the baker
This whole movie plot is super relevant in the context of US's Nov 2024 election. It shocks me that not more people are talking about it tbh.
YES thank you for this comment that quote actually applies here so well (and is from one of my favourite musicals (alongside wicked) lol)
Elphaba, I can see doing colourblind casting because she is green at the end of the day, so you can make her Asian, or black, or native, or ashkenazi or any ethnicity really. But MY personal gripe that I have gone on for years about is that Fiyero, a MacGuire original character, IS EXPLICITLY A POC WHO IS DISCRIMINATED AGAINST FOR THAT! His skin is one of the things that makes him similar to Elphaba rather than the Gilkinese (Glinda’s ethnic group in Oz) majority in Shia university. He’s not just a foreign prince, but he is a explictly ethnic one with “ochre” skin and tattoos that tie into his ethnicity (think Inuit or Māori facial tattoos). So to have Fiyero as anything other than a radicalized character is … oh it sits worse with me than Elphaba any day. That was why he was also different. Elphaba and him both faced discrimination in the novel & in the musical they removed any “issues” from him other than internal conflict. Giving him an external conflict just…. I will never not bring it up because he’s such an important character to me in the books. He, his wife, his family, and their home is WHY Elphaba is the witch of the WEST. It’s just? It feels like such a missed opportunity.
Wow I read the books but totally forgot this. Thank you for bringing this up.
Thank you, that also didn't sit right with me. Book Fiyero is coded to be indigenous (plus the fact that "Winkie" is a slur in the Wicked book's canon). I feel like the indigenous angle is an important one to the commentary on the Wizard of Oz books, because the Wizard feels like a deeply colonial fantasy, what with all the showing up to a foreign land and immediately being crowned their magical king because the natives so amazed at your little parlour tricks.
I also feel like it says more about Glinda’s attraction to him while also being so against Elphaba and her appearance. It drives home the point that Glinda is only willing to overlook “flaws” or signs of not being good if it personally benefits her which for Fiyero is a love interest but if he were any other guy she wouldn’t care about him
omg thats so interesting, I didn't get why Elphaba and him connected in the movie, and as much as I love Jonathan Bailey, I wish they had gone for a poc/ indigenous casting for him
9:14 one of the things I think the movie made clearer than the stage musical is that Galinda doesn't just hate Elphaba because it's popular to do so: Galinda is _jealous_ of Elphaba, and Elphaba is probably the only peer (or less than) in Galinda's life so far to deny catering to Galinda. Elphaba (plus Madame Morrible, Galinda's idol) came in like a wrecking ball to Galinda's worldview, and it's so fun.
It’s hilarious how republicans will go see Wicked and completely miss the point of the movie.
It is like the Matrix, basically.
They can't interpret anything, of course they don't get it.
They don't get it because it doesn't fit in their simple narrow minded world view of "ugly outspoken woman=Bad, Beautiful submissive woman=good" and they're also too busy defending predators
No media comprehension, just like no Bible comprehension.
Those people tend to fall in the “it’s not that deep” camp.
This is the most accurate and nuanced take of Glinda I've seen so far.
So many TikTok takes saying things like "Glinda are for the girls who do good but are taken the wrong way" like no, she (in part 1) is taken exactly the way she wants to be
To be fair, I feel like Glinda took Dorothy on that trip to overthrow the wizard, so maybe she’s the Megyn Kelly of the timeline where she has some sense of morals.
WE DON'T CARE + MY CONTENT INFINITELY BETTER 😂
"Glinda is for the girls who want to do fascism without breaking a nail so they use segregation and degradation to gain and maintainpower." 👸🏼
Yeah what that’s quite literally elphaba
Why are you commenting under every other comment @@ville-c4u? Get a life and this is not how you bring people to your channel.
To add on your point about Glinda being punished, at the end of the musical, (far as she knows) her best friend/maybe Gf is dead and Fiyero is dead. Glinda lost the most important people in her life and she will be the "Wicked (one) die alone". And while its hinted she will set out to do all the good Elephaba was unable to, at the end of it all she is alone.
When I saw the stage show my impression was that she was a co-conspirator on Elphaba’s faked death and as such knows it happened, but she knows she’ll never be able to see Elphaba again because it would ruin the death-faking for someone so famous to visit so ultimately your point holds
Not sure which one of us is misremembering
@@voidify3 i seem to remember she was a conspirator as well, so maybe op is misremembering
@@adoragrayskull @voidify3 Elephaba out right says she wishes she could tell Glinda her and Fiyero are alive but Fiyero points out its better everyone thinks they are dead.
Fun fact; when the Queen died in the UK all shows that night had to announce the death and hold a minutes silence. Then goes straight into those opening lyrics
*Good News! Shes deeeeeead!*
😅 perfect, no notes 😂
That's amazing 😂
it's amazing, it's like they cared... but not thaaaaat much 😅
@lilymoon2829 tbf what else could they do? They did the announcement and silence as requested, then got on with it. Just had the most unfortunate opening lyrics of all time in that scenario 🤣
Also love Dan Howell's tour that was happening concurrently, had a similar situation; his opens with him coming out yelling *We're. All. Dooooooomed.* also his fanbase, myself included, weren't exactly weeping over the Queens death anyway (don't get me wrong I wasn't cheering or celebrating, it's just like eh i didn't know ya know?) So made for another hilariously awkwardly dark opening to a show 😂
they announced the death, held a minute of silence, and then warned that the show would proceed without alterations. Theeen *Goood neeeeeeews*
This is by far one of the most nuanced analyses of Glinda that I've come across. I agree with much of what's been presented here. Glinda's fixation with the perception of goodness, her performative activism, and her misalignment of cruelty and kindness are all foundational. However, i think Megyn Kelly is the wrong Fox allegory. I think Glinda is much more of a Gretchen Carlson.
Carlson was, like Kelly, instrumental in the sexual harrassment saga depicted in Bombshell. It was she who some say lit that particular fuse once the network began disabusing her of their loyalty. Much like how Oz being disabused of its Wicked Witch and Wizard allowed Glinda to fill the power vacuum we see, taking shape in No One Mourns the Wicked.
I think that Glinda's fundamental desire is not for power in a political sense, as some may suggest, but for comfort and security. She believes she can obtain this by checking off boxes on a list of preceivable goodness. Always maintain the facade of feminine poise, pursue a course of study that is sophistixated enough to earn respect and have concrete application, yet be careful enough not to appear so intellectual that you risk alienating the men who can ensure that security.
Popular is the first time we see her deviate from these notions. In helping Elphaba, who is so unlike her, we see her willingness to help another obtain the security she feels is so paramount. Not necessarily act out of a foundational political acumen. That is why the empathy they have for one another is genuine. Glinda is becoming a liberal, but she's not quite there yet.
Had she spent more time learning before the Emerald City, who knows what decision she could've made. But up to this point, she has existed in a bubble that Elphie has just barely begun to seep through. So when the Wizard promises that the two of them can live together in comfort and splendor, why should Glinda believe otherwise? The system he upholds has always protected her. Cared for her. Kept her safe. She has yet to grasp that Elphie is the Wizard's ideological other. Sure, her friend looks different, and they disagree the tiniest bit over the Animals. But the Wizard isn't bad. He just wants to make Oz great again. Elphie is just a lib overreacting. But if she'd just apologize, they can have fairytale lives. They can be adored. Glinda doesn't conceive yet that every fairytale needs a viloain.
After Elphie defies gravity, though, it will become clear that this isn't true. In Maguire's novel, there is a scene in which Boq and Elphie discuss Glinda at length over tea. To paraphrase, Elphie says that there's a closet (heh) that Glinda retreats to in her mind when what she knows to be true and what she thinks she should do conflict with one another. Thank goodness is essentially her mind palace.
And so, as long as her bubble is intact, she allows herself to be banal in the face of the wiizard's evil. She's not a bigot for voting for lowrr grocery prices and gas. Her queer and POC friebnds might be affected by the wizard's policies, but from her view, their small discomfort doesn't outweigh the good of Oz as a whole. She may dislike the Wizard, but his policies work. Until they don't.
Elphie's death and the Wizard's departure pop the bubble. She is Carlson, unceremoniously booted after years of paying her dues and ignoring inherent cracks in the plaster. She will try to take action, but after years of being successfully, if reticently complicit, the viability of that action remains unclear . Unlike Kelly and Jenner, Carlson hasn't had a cyclical relationship with conservative press since leaving Fox. She is a former queen who stands publicly and professionally alone and apart for her latent action against a system she was ingrained in. Much like Glinda descending on mumchkinland alone.
A fantastic take! 👏
@TheCaitSD Thank you!
Great analysis! Thanks
I instantly started crying at the beginning of the movie because of the fascist elements. All that was running through my head was the idea that (some) people are going to celebrate the deaths of undocumented immigrants and transpeople that way over the next few years.
And the look in Ariana’s eyes SO POWERFUL
I'm so glad to be in queer media so I can catch this in the first minute
So glad to be holding space here ❤
One details: In the background of the first history class you can see the timeline of Oz. It perfectly maps 1920-30s Germany.
The Ozdust/Dancing Through Life party scene also definitely took some inspiration from 1920s Weimar Germany if you look at the fashion the extras are wearing. The movie mostly taking place on a school campus smartly obscures the time period. Like real college students, it makes sense that Shiz students are treated and dismissed by those with political power like they're living inside a bubble.
@@RariettyC Yeah I’m think about how Dorthy gets there in the late 30s, so maybe the movie is actually set in the 20s/30s
im excited to see you revisit this video once part 2 comes out since Act 2 is much more "politics" heavy
i mean, you could write an entire thesis on "Thank Goodness"
Especially if they decide to add in more book elements. Which could be a good idea, with Act II being so much shorter… could use more fleshing out since it develops at breakneck speed.
No one asked
@@ville-c4uso why are you here?? Your weird ass is commenting under EVERYONE’S comments… you seem to REALLY REALLY care
@@8114梦见It’s very likely that most of the expanding will happen in part two because John Chu, the director, has announced there will be two new songs. Meaning that we will likely see a lot more content added to flesh out Act 2.
I wish they kept Prince Fiyero othered like in the novel...he is described as having blue tattoos and non white skin (interpreted by some as Indian, brown, black etc.)
Ehh, I get it but - Johnathon Bailey was the right cast call. It is exceptionally hard to pull off that egotistical gaston persona while still having it be a level of endearing. I personally feel it is the most difficult character type to play. To find someone who can balance that and sing and exude such sexuality across all genders is so so rare.
@keikosah8254 he was good but it's not like other performers who match the book description don't exist.
@@Jumanjijumpsuitthey had only celebrity casting so it's not like they gave themselves the chance to find such a person lol.
@@JaiProdz right? Like, Bollywood is right there.
@JaiProdz idk if you guys wanna be so nitpicky then that's on yall. I'm glad they didn't just cast based purely on looks/skin color but on talent. A good fiyero is so hard to find that's why Diggs is still known as THE fiyero. It's easier to replace glinda and elphaba than it is to replace fiyero.
Glinda to me is Taylor Swift, who said in her own documentary that her moral compass was the need to be perceived as good
She's most celebrities then
Laaa, laaa... Laaa, laaa 💖
Absolutely
Tbh, that’s most people in the public eye. Even normal people online have this same perspective in terms of how they’re perceived on social media.
Although I don’t think Taylor Swift is a direct comparison, I do think she and white women like her are closer to being like Glinda than Megan Kelly.
It’s very clear where Megan Kelly stands. She’s more of a Madame Morrible character if anything.
that’s deliberately misconstruing what she said in bad faith
Fun fact - Maguire states two separate incidents that inspired him to write this book. In the first Gulf War, the news was calling Sadam Hussain the next Hitler, and that he was WICKED. It made him ponder how wicked something must be to get you to abandon your lofty ideals to stop it. Second, there was a news story about 2 boys around 11 years old stoning a 2 year old boy, and again the news called them WICKED. He wondered what the nature of wickedness was, where does it come from? Can you be born wicked, or can fate turn you wicked? He said he had to explore these ideas in a book for his own sanity.
I put this in a reply to another comment but it stands on its own
I'm pretty sure the reason why she isn't played by a black actor more often is because (having read the books and not seen the play) with the Animals, Maguire specifically leans towards American racial identity politics.
At one point when Elphaba is explaining to Boq why she's helping Dillermond, she feels Boq is being obtuse and gets frustrated and leaves. Then Boq "looks around the restaurant and realizes... There's no black peo- I mean Animals in this restaurant."
I feel Maguire was intentional with his writing, saw an opportunity to allude to more than one minority, and the green skin is supposed to represent a disfigurment or disability, particularly one that is rare or unique. That's why in the book her sister is born without arms, and it why when the play diverges from this, using a wheelchair instead is pretty appropriate.
While both groups are oppressed, one is able to find solidarity in community, while the other finds solitude as a pariah.
It also makes Elphaba's (who in the book lives a life of poverty) an even more appropriate foil to Glinda the perfectly beautiful.
Bonus Fun fact - Maguire, who also helped with the play, is a married, gay roman catholic (retired) choir director.
More fun facts -
-The largest omission in the play/movie from the book is a Dwarf with device called The Clock of the Time Dragon. Annnnd it's pretty much "Tom Bombadil" from Lord of the Rings, so was probably cut for very similar reasons.
-in the book, Elphaba identified as a scientist - after Dillamond - and firmly rejected being a witch. At one point she strategically accepts the title... begrudgingly. But she insisted that she was not.
-in the books, Elphaba's mum was heir to the position of Eminant Thropp, the matriarch of Munchkinland. She hated being and didn't want the position so she abdicated and married an impoverished traveling preacher.
-third, I can't believe you're still reading this but. Even tho Elphaba's mum was promiscuous, the Wizard still felt like he needed to Bill-Cosby her. After that, her mum and her dad were in a thrupple with this other guy named turtle heart
-still reading? Jesus. The thrupple has a third kid, Elphaba's lil brother Shell and he's perfectly healthy. Then Turtle Heart gets brutally murdered
Just dropping by to say this insight on the world of Wicked in the book and its inspirations is very much appreciated.
I want to get around to reading the series eventually. It seems a lot of political commentary was simplified and omitted in the musical adaptation.
Yeah, just go in knowing it's pretty adult in an HBO kinda way. The movie and the play are PG but the book uh... Is not lol
@@melodyqueen6432 The book sounds wild as hell 😭
@@theshunnedBandersnatch Someone made a trigger warning for it and it had almost every single one😭
holding space for this video!!
The fact that people are JUST NOW realizing this show is not only political, but EXTREMELY QUEER…have you people been living under a rock?
Also to answer your question “Why was Elphaba never played more by women of color: witches were rooted in antisemitism. Everything about the stereotypical witch was a Jewish stereotype. Idina is Jewish. Her being cast was a direct commentary on it. Cynthia being cast also brings to light how Elphaba is commentary on how society STILL treat black women/women of color.
*That’s why Glinda’s eyes are green in the original poster for the musical!* You have to be eagle eyed to spot it, but it’s a small detail that shows “Good” people…are probably more evil than the people in society that are being labeled “evil”.
Has some one said thats the reason why glindas eyes are green - equating green with evil in a show that says the green person is good (since it may foreshadows that deep down glinda has a little green-ness too )
I do think in 1939 the witch in the movie - and now recognised iconography that helped single handely promote this witch sterotype - can be rooted in antisemitism but that's not all witches e.g pre 1939 and significant witch history like witch hunts and cauldrons which are a bit more Shakespeare hags
I do thing idina menzels life would influence her but not every elphaba has been Jewish , I love the new interview where she said she walseo read the book
I do think anyone can play elphaba because they'll bring their own otherness to it , but also following the film the wicked witch would've been normal of not green (even if people could choose to act pike green is fine) and normalness is still an ideal , having diverse cast in wicked reflects that normalness in new oz can be anything (but in the maguire books people are still quite xenophobic or judgemental to people in different parts of oz , i feel like the maguire book highlighted a lot of fickle behaivours of society just deciding things arent ok and the people who have to suffer for it ) but truly some people do have the real lived experience from birth of being odd in a room for a completely natural feature in a non historical context ( depending on where you live you might not even if you are a different complexion) and I felt that was really honed in on up close by the acting.
I'm mixed but I'm also fat , the millionth time in someone thought pointing it out with 'fatty' was peak comedy it was tiring and boring and still sad, strange things like mooing or elaborate bullying still sad but creative , I loved elphaba brining in her version of an ' yes I am 6ft tall , the weather's great' card was amazing whoever is playing elphaba
And I don't know if people know this because it's been a fact of American history that has been hidden for so long but the Salem witch trials actually persecuted black woman on the basis that they were actually witches and you know what happened to them they were lynched in mass numbers. It wasn't white woman who were getting persecuted and hunted down to be hung in trees and squares.
No shade, but how is Wicked queer? I really don't understand why people want these characters who are clearly hetero to be lgbtq so bad. Elphaba and Glinda are FRIENDS not lovers and they always have been depicted that way. Yes, in this adaptation there are queer characters for sure but this movie isn't for "the gays" it's for everyone ESPECIALLY black women and honestly a lot of times when there's a friendship between a white woman and black woman, there's always speculation over the black woman's sexuality as though she just HAS to be sexually attracted to the white friend. They made it very evident through casting Cynthia and how they told the story that she is HETERO.
@@BabyDoll-xx9rk people talk the few kisses in the book
And also for the musical their songs are based of off romantic duets is something people are also saying that I’ve seen recently
The outsider subtext can apply to many marginalised groups too
@@BabyDoll-xx9rk in book, they actually kiss two times and the queer lenses applied to wicked have been there away before cynthia was cast. it’s simply part of the play, part of one valid interpretation. and cynthia is a queer woman btw.
43:56
" _And if I'm flying solo, at least I'm flying free..._ "
holy fuck did you just hold space with the lyrics of defying gravity
While I do think it’s amazing to see a black woman play Elphaba, the history of the character of the wicked witch of the west is rooted in anti semitism. With the pointy hat and prominent nose. So in a way having a Jewish woman like Idina Menzel play the character is pretty empowering too!
agreed, you can be black and jewish tho
Exactly this!! There’s all types of marginalized people out there that this story and allegory fits 💚🩷
Came here to say this.
@@neveramæyes but in a play about Nazism, few of those persecuted were. This is not an argument to not cast a black woman, but an explanation for why casting a Jewish woman isn’t weaker representation
Now we have both! People have the opportunity to see both a Jewish and black woman take on the role. Prominent noses are caricatures used against both communities and the most striking detail of the character in general is her skin and how people other her for it. For a musical written to show how easily bias can lead to bigotry and violence, I think having different communities see how similar their struggles are boiled into one character rounds the message out very nicely.
Kristen Chenoweth made a song with Jennifer Hudson, in another timeline it would have been wild to see a powerhouse like Jennifer Hudson perform the green witch on broadway. Whitney Houston fought for Brandy to play Cinderella, but that’s bc she was executive producer.
Woah. She’d literally bring down walls of theatres with her voice. She’s a gift, born once a generation. Now i want her to record defying gravity. Have u heard her snippet from somewhere over the rainbow?
Well done, like always. I've been watching Cynthia Erivo interviews on YT (because she's the best), and the horribly racist comments, particularly about her looks, are insane. People are getting bold about their ugliness. On a more positive note, looking up Jonathan Bailey and finding out he is a beautiful person inside and out has been healing ❤
Wicked the book is pretty gay. Elphaba's and Glinda's implied relationship isn't the only one. There's two gay men in their immediate friend group that are fairly important in the first half. Elphaba's parents are also involved in a throuple with a man. Her father directly states that her sister is his favorite because she's likely a result of the two people he loved most (his wife and the other man in the throuple).
Yes; I can't stand the way so many people claimed that the musical raised the Kinsey score of the novel.
You have the nicest voice i’ve ever heard! I love listening to you before sleep
Glinda is the grindr boys who won't come out to their family and say "Trump is just joking about the fascism stuff"
You are perfectly valid and capable on your own. Don't worry.
Also: The banality of evil also teaches us that even if the evil inflicted is tremendous and monstrous, so monstrous in fact that we can hardly imagine it to have human orgin, it still has. We may wish that this evil, that these people who were capable of such heinous crimes were different from ourselves, somehow inherently more violent or more degenerate, but in the end they're not.
Megyn Kelly also accosted the Duggar girls about what Josh Duggar did to them and went out of her way to make Josh and his parents looks good.
And you made me want to watch Wicked.
One the earliest comments I heard Megyn Kelly make is that having a black Santa is historically inaccurate because "Santa just is white... I mean, Jesus was a white man too." That just is false. So freaking false lol. And the fact that she can forcefully state that as if it is a fact is hilarious and infuriating
Glinda’s lines in Thank Goodness pretty much sums up how she feels about losing something important to get power and stability
That's why I couldn't be happier.
No, I couldn't be happier,
Though it is, I admit
The tiniest bit
Unlike I anticipated.
But I couldn't be happier,
Simply couldn't be happier,
Well, not "simply"
'Cause getting your dreams
It's strange, but it seems
A little, well, complicated.
There's a kind of a sort of cost.
There's a couple of things get lost.
There are bridges you cross
You didn't know you crossed
Until you've crossed!
Cant wait for part 2!
wicked is such a layer story, the books are… wild, but they’re such a good insight into the politics of Oz while waiting for the second movie.
glinda is such an interesting character to me… how she starts the story promising herself not to “think”, how desperate she is to be liked by all she is willing to loose her individuality you begin to question if there’s an individual behind glinda at all or if she’s always set out to be a “fool” card like in the tarot deck, ready to adapt to whatever role she thinks will benefit her the most.
just the fact there’s a difference between animals (lowercase) and Animals (uppercase) already is so impactful visually.
I dont comment a lot but I just wanted to say that your analysis was amazing and it was really nice to see you do the episode by yourself, the media analysis space could really use more people like you, I really loved this video and your content in general
I had never seen the musical or knew the plot of Wicked outside of the two iconic songs, but the oppression of the animals was so dark. Everytime Elphaba had visions of her professor in a cage, I died a little inside.
I saw someone say "Glinda looked so conflicted before throwing the torch on the witch effigy" and like Bestie. 😭I don't care how conflicted she looked when she burned an effigy of her dead friend, I care that she did it.
The video was definitely coherent and thought provoking, even when your by yourself your points are riveting to watch! I think Galinda as a character is truly fascinating. I always thought that people were oversimplifying her character both left and right. When I saw the show live as a kid, I never realized the obvious references to scapegoating that Dr. Dillamond as a character presented, but after watching the movie it smacked me in the face haha. Anyways, amazing episode! Thanks for the content 🩷💚
In defense of your kid self, the musical pacing is very very fast, and it doesn’t take a lot of time to dig into the concepts it presents on too deep of a level.
'...thinking once again about how intense the allegory of Elphaba being green is to racism, why has Elphaba not always been played by a Black woman?'
It's really gonna shiver your timbers to find out that Fiyero was whitewashed in the book-to-play adaptation process.
I don’t think that Elphaba was whitewashed in the play like Fiyero was in the film tho. Having a Jewish woman play Elphaba still feels relevant, although that has levels of weirdness to it as well.
The book has characters with red skin though too, in addition to the blue we see on Fiyero. I think they made the choice to make Elphaba have the only non-flesh toned skin for shorthand and simplification purposes.
@8114梦见 I would argue that they simplified the allegory to the point of tokenism. Because in the stage & movie adaptations, we now have a singular person with non-flesh toned skin, aligning herself with the only other marginalized group, which are Animals (who share the human characteristic of speech), and now there are some definite Unfortunate Implications going on.
@ I agree that the oversimplification is unfortunate. I see why they do it for short hand in the musical, but it takes away from nuance and leads to unfortunate interpretations… like you said. Absolutely agree.
They already whitewashed the character of wicked witch of the west’s in wicked. In the og she was always a evil being
I LOVED this!! So well-researched and presented. I especially loved your point about phrenology. It bugs me SO MUCH when people are critiquing others (who deserve it lol) but instead of using their bad actions as evidence of them not being great people they use their physical characteristics. Like someone’s smile or head size has NOTHING to do with how they act as a person and insulting a bad person’s “weird smile” is also insulting all the good people who also have that trait. We seriously need to stop equating beauty with morality
Glinda was willing to lose a small bit of popularity by becoming friends with Elphie because of her ultimate search for power, not because she was being "good" or selfless. She saw first hand how powerful elphie is, madam m's interest in her and wanted that too. Short term loss for long term gain. She only felt guilty for giving elphie the witch hat after madam m gave her a training wand at the request of elphie. Even before getting on the train she says " this is your moment- okay im coming", showing she really doesn't care about elphie's gain unless it invloves her. once the wizard offered a spot in his kingdom for Glinda if she complied, she was comfortable dropping elphie. Ultimately anything "good" done by Glinda is for her own selfish reasons, not for love or care and kindness. Maybe along the way she grew a bond with elphie, but not enough to abandon her self serving ways. Someone can do nice things and not be good, or be good and not do nice things.
As someone who 100% agrees with Matt's take, I think you are being too unfair towards Glinda in your assessment here.
Especially by using the "okay, I'm coming" line. You are purposely hiding the fact that Elphaba invited her to come and insisted on it. Glinda said multiple times that she doesn't want to impose and Elphaba said "it doesn't matter, just get on the train". And what motivated Elphaba to do this? Reading Glinda's note that said "I hope your get your hearts desire." Elphaba is the one who couldn't imagine not bringing her best and first friend to the biggest moment of her life. At no point did Glinda ask to come along. She had been nothing but supportive of Elphaba doing well.
Your analysis of the Ozdust scene also removes so much of the emotional impact and would be bad storytelling. While her defiance of social norms is no way as impressive as Elphaba Defying Gravity, it is supposed to be the start of Glinda's arc to being a better person.
We know how much Glinda values popularity and she risked everything to dance with Elphaba. She straight up told her friends "No" to abandoning Elphaba. She was doing more than Elphaba's own sister. So what if she did it because Elphaba got her her dream class? Does that mean that the dance/apology is no longer valid? Why? She clearly felt guilty and was willing to humiliate herself to show Elphaba that she was sorry/appreciative. Would you rather she keep the wand and not say anything???
Besides, at that point Glinda had no idea that Elphaba was going to meet the Wizard. Elphaba was powerful, yes, but Glinda had no idea that Morrible had intended to prepare Elphaba to meet the Wizard.
@@grandempressvicky6387I kinda disagree I've not gotten to matts take yet though. But glindas apology is not one that anyone else knows is an apology , she wouldn't admit to being mean infront of people ,only people seeing her as elphabas saviour in this moment.
Between elphaba and glinda they were the only ones in the bedroom . To elphaba the person who did this to her was glinda wether or not glindas friends want glinda to stop or egged her on. But no one else will ever know glinda had ever had a mean bone in her body. We all know this is the best apology that will happen on screen and it has to be enough because it stopped the torment.
She can change and feel bad but fuyero saying 'it's not your fault' plays a big part imo , if someone were responsible they would be bad so she goes to fix something she is actually at fault for.
@sophiel5559 , with your first paragraph, you are just assuming that. But the text itself is saying that Glinda is being genuine here. She is not supposed to be a saviour, and she is the first to show Elphaba decency and humanity. She didn't have to ditch Fiyero and leave the ballroom with just Elphaba to do this.
And so what if nobody but Glinda's friends knew that she set Elphaba up? They are not the focus of the story, and those people would've bullied Elphaba for going to the ball, with or without the hat. Did you want Glinda to do a big speech about how she set Elphaba up to be humiliated and how she is sorry for it? I don't think Elphaba would appreciate such a public declaration.
She is a fictional character limited by the confines of a script and screen time. There is only so much her writers can make her say to show she is sorry.
Matt you should definitely do more media analysis episodes like this one, cause by the end of it i was feeling about Wicked the same way i felt about The Zone of Interest and that's saying a lot.
100% it's the same normalization of oppression to make some 'beautiful paradise' compound atop the corpses
9:30 To be honest, I doubt Glinda and Elphaba would never be together romantically because Glinda is always going to choose popularity over Elphaba and Elphaba is always going to choose doing the right thing over popularity. It was sadly never going to be healthy.
This feels like the long awaited musical episode of a show and honestly I am so here for it
Also as I reach the end of the video you did amazing ❤
Okay, I just realized, (and this might be a well duh moment) that the two (that I consider) big cultural moment musicals of the last 20 years, Wicked and Hamilton, are literally the same plot??? Told by the “villain” who was once friends with the focal character. the narrator tries to work within the system and not cause a stir. I feel like broad strokes of Burr/Gilinda and Elphaba/Hamilton are so similar it’s so surprising I didn’t notice prior. Now I’m thinking, what does this say about our culture-particularly musical theatre culture-that this is the relationship dynamic and political questions that have persisted in the cultural mind the last 20-ish years?
I love musical theater, but it’s clear there are some really hard limits in terms of just how radical and boundary pushing they can be, especially if they are large stage productions that reach mainstream success on broadway.
Theatre attracts social rejects, who’re attracted to this storyline. It goes back way further than 20 years, it’s like every other Disney movie. Frozen, Encanto, Hunchback of Notre Dame etc. The main protagonist is a reject whose pain or “otherness” becomes their superpower. A narrator that’s an assimilationist trying to work the system is one popular trope-but the reject-to-superpower protagonist is the core.
Another show with a similar sort of framing is jesus christ superstar which first came out all the way back in 1970
4:49 I think part of the reason Idina Menzel was cast is because the casting directors at the time saw a lot of the things related to racism in the show as also being allegories for antisemitism, and Idina Menzel is Jewish
literally had to stop watching after this - gay man who loves idina menzel but doesnt know she’s jewish and then makes a comment abt the racism aspect 😭 gay men talking out of their ass once again
Matt’s aunt is SO CUTE
Matt, please interview her on her book please please please.
Honestly, I didn’t realize until the very end that this is the first video I had seen of yours without a guest. Very natural. I love to hear you talk, and the whole episode was well structured logically. I also stopped to watch bombshell, then watched wicked a second time, and now finished the video. Life is complex, and wild. Thankful
For
Spaces like this. And to
Be holding space with the lyrics of defying gravity
Three weeks late here, but wanted to say, I loved it! It felt so satisfying to hear you wrap the solo ep with a perfect thesis ending. Bravo ☺️
48:10 You did great Matt! One of your best episodes imo. I really loved your analysis and thought it was pretty spot on.
What an episode! thank you so much! Glinda is Megyn Kellt absolutely and I dont have anything to comment or add to that bc you explain yourself perfectly. thank you for this video!!! I admire a lot and today even more. Greetings from Madrid, Spain!
This is my favourite video of yours now (I've watched it twice already). Thanks for always being so interesting and hilarious, I loved this analysis.
"but it can be, if you want it to be"
I do want it to be Matt, I do
Let the fanfic roll (8)
As a disabled teen, both Elphaba and (for just this act--won't elaborate as to not spoil) Nessa Rose hit so hard for me in this movie. The first interaction between Glinda and Elphaba mirrors almost verbatim (just substitute "studying magic" for "studying science" and BAM) conversations I've had with a variety of people about my disability. Nessa Rose I relate to in a more literal sense, as trying to tell people not to help you and being ignored or feeling like you can't be normal was very common in my experience. So was having periods of desperation to escape otherness entirely.
But Elphaba's whole journey feels much more emotionally resonant, given the theme of massive otherism, as well as how being marginalized permanently alters the way you see image vs cause. I admire Elphaba so much, and I cherish her so deeply. Anyone who's marginalized gets to defy Gravity with Elphaba, to be free. But I also think we'd all have a lot of people watching us leave and "hope we're happy", as they go off to grovel.
Your aunt being lisa kohn is one of the weirdest crossovers ever as someone in the deconstruction space omg
I also think that Glinda coming down in a bubble at the beginning of the film is also great symbolism of how some people especially the wealthy will shelter themselves inside their own bubbles to be oblivious to the happenings of the world around them to remain ignorant.
Loved the take! I genuinely felt the same way upon seeing the movie twice. It’s ultimately a tragedy of two best friends who are pulled in opposite directions. It’s giving very fox and the hound energy.
From a UK perspective, I immediately thought of Kate Middleton
My first viewing of you has been a real philosophical treat. Loved listening to your every word. Well done.
Just got out of the movies with my baby sister. We both just sobbed. It was so good and this commentary and dissection is the perfect dessert. So thankful for you Matt!
I’ve been refreshing your channel for new videos and I couldn’t be more excited for this one!!
thank you for this! i’ve had very little interest in seeing wicked (i am a former theater kid who can’t stand musicals) but you’ve convinced me it’s probably right up my alley.
i loved this episode!!! and you did make your point really well. it added a lot of complexity to my understanding of the film
I always thought the implication from the end of the musical is that the three witches had sort of schemed out the ending they wanted, getting rid of the wizard and being able to live in peace. After the events of Act 1 there was no convincing the public Elphaba wasn't evil, so they instead went for toppling the current regime and installing Glinda instead, with all three witches being in on the scheme.
Additionally, my impression from the musical was always that the time between Defying Gravity and Dorothy leaving Oz was really short. Like a few weeks at the most. I also thinking the whole Elphaba character is very muddled because in The Wizard of Oz she's explicitly one dimensionally evil, not just vengeful, and I feel like the musical Elphaba is very incompatible, or at least not close to enough was done to make them feel like the same person. And so the only way to square the two is for it to be an elaborate orchestration.
This isn't to excuse any of Glinda's actions, but at least on stage I always got the impression that she and Elphaba remained friends throughout the events of The Wizard of Oz and were both keeping up appearances to the rest of Oz to achieve their mutual goal.
Thank you for challenging yourself and sharing this video with us! I thought your analysis was thoughtful and accessible 😊 keep up the good work!!
I just wanted to say I love your solo episodes, I'm always literally in awe of how well spoken you are and it's such a pleasure to listen to you, even if the subject itself isn't usually pleasing. Might sound super corny but knowing there are people out there with your kind of sensitivity really helps.
i think something missing from this video is that glinda begrudgingly respects elphaba from the start, she respects how she “doesn’t care” what anyone thinks about her, and she respects her power. and elphaba also respects glinda, which is why she wanted glinda to always come with her. elphaba has the raw power, and glinda has the respect, each of them have the one thing that the other really wants. in defying gravity, elphaba sings to glinda “and you can’t bring me down.” so i think her choosing not to go with elphaba wasn’t just choosing to stay comfortable and get into a position of power. i think glinda wanted to go with elphaba, but knew that she would hold her back in one way or another, because she would never be able to fully commit to her cause. i honestly think it’s better that she did that instead of lying, going anyway, and then backing out later. elphaba also respects glinda’s decision to stay. they both respect the fact that the other is going down a different path, which might be because they both know that neither of them are really going to change anything, and they both need to commit to their own individual happiness. another thing that i think is interesting is that if elphaba wasn’t green, she would most likely be just like glinda or worse, because elphaba comes from a position of privilege and wealth just like glinda. it shows that there really aren’t any differences between the two girls except for how society perceives them. their souls mirror each other, imo. anyway, i agree with most of this video, i just wanted to point out some of my observations from watching the movie and listening to the music.
I truly love this podcast so much, your commentary and analysis of literally anything is always so interesting, curious, genuine, and fun. Please never stop making these episodes!!
This content is why I subscribe to you, Matt! Thank you!. In the books Glinda ends up a pastry eating Karen. She's not evil like the Wizard and Morrible but rather a person of privilege with compromised morals.
I am digging this "solo" podcast format. Please do it more often♥️
Matt is creating Herstory with this
Loved your solo episode. Yay. More. (All of this is genuine. I'm just so tired from crying at the movie again.)
YOU DID SO GOOD BY YOURSELF! I loved the content and vid and the conversation was amazing! Ahhhh love your work!
Endorsed your thesis right off the bat. Thank you for your braverism 💚
I'm a WICKED tourist I guess you can say since I never even heard of it before they announced the movie but LOVED the movie so much and been searching all things wicked since which led me here. This video was great. Your points were valid and brought to my attention some things I hadn't even thought about and presented them in a clear, well stated and also very entertaining way.
Honestly love the solo episodes 🖤 Don't forget at the end of the day, it's YOU we're subscribed to and it's you we want to hear from! Loved this!
I just love how Matt can't make it through a single podcast without a little Anita Bryant mention - that cracks me up 😂😂😂
Btw, 'Caitlyn Jenner running for governor, wtf kind of a timeline are we living in?' was BRUTAL, I felt that *deep* urgh
Matt, you did GREAT by yourself 🎉🎉🎉
imm so sat for this episode omg
girl i feel the SSRI thing so hard. it usually does seem to be books or movies making me cry more often than emotional moments in real time 😭
that shit killed my personality and my ability to orgasm.
One of my the additions to Glinda’s character made by the movie that I find most fascinating is the scene in the balloon, where she chooses to pull the cord *with* Elphaba and hasten the escape attempt.
In the heat of the moment, even though she spends the whole time before and afterward trying to advocate for the Wizard to Elphaba, when tossed into a high stress situation she almost instinctually chooses to go against her nature. Almost to suggest that without the space to consider her position and ambitions, Glinda’s “natural” desire is to help her friend.
You did so well by yourself! Amazing!
love your pacing, timing & delivery. it’s captivating on its’ own.
I was thinking of your podcast just yesterday! Love your work
This is by far my favorite video from you as someone who’s super into the analysis of film and media and also the progressive online space. I would honestly love to see more videos of your interpretation and analysis of films, since I think you’re specific perspective and niche is something I rarely see in youtube with such quality aside from people like withCindy, hbomberguy, Big Joel, etc.
I just realized something at around 12:00. Do you hear that? It sort of sounds like there's a link between the the goat doctor and what the government is doing to animals. Like scapegoating kinda...
You have the absolute best explanation of wicked I’ve seen and I’ve watched about 40 different videos and reviews since seeing the movie on Thanksgiving and I was so frustrated. Awesome! Bravo and you nailed it. Thank you so much. I agree with your review 10000000% by the way
I think you did some grade A media analysis and I would love more of it any day!
Great job analysing and making the conversation about this piece of media relevant, thought provoking, deep and moving. Please more of this content Matt!
including Hannah Arendt in this video was *chef’s kiss*
"How did I do?" Well, I'm someone who only saw the Judy Garland movie and none of the other iterations and I stayed til the end! Thanks for the Cliff's Notes synopsis. Plus, I always love your take on (whatever). 💚💗
I have a very obvious point to make on the topic of equating beauty to goodness; Glinda's name is clearly a variation of Linda, which comes from Spanish and means "pretty". It's on the same level as Ms. Morrible rhyming with Horrible, yk children's story-core lol but it shows how that dynamic of beauty=goodness was set up intentionally, even if The Wizard of Oz wasnt trying to deconstruct it yet.
Thank you for uploading a video on Thanksgiving! I was trying to figure out what to watch while making a small dinner for myself.
Also, loved you perspective on Wicked
Oooo thank you for this thanksgiving feast
You did a fabulous job!!! Loved your analysis. ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Thanks for the content and good work going solo, I personally thought it came off very well.