2 Questions: 1. Have you considered making the DIY haptic gloves by @LucasVRTech on youtube? 2. After you put the flight stick controller in in the hold you have. If you let go will the flight stick remain centered? I ask because I notice that you first need to grab the control in the aircraft before you can rest it, this makes me wonder if you have to constantly offset you flight stick because where you grabbed the flight stick in the game and where the thing holding your flight stick might not line up.
Hi Mike, thanks for the question. I have no knowledge of the haptic gloves, I’m using my controllers as my hands. If @lucasvrtech wants to send me gloves, I’ll surely use them in my videos. As to the flight stick. I use a rubber coupler at the base of the flight stick which provides the perfect amount of tension and keeps it centered. I have a video here on UA-cam that shows how it works
I think your setup is the bomb I like it all I need is a oculus and the ingredients and I already know where to find cool gamers computer no hotas I like it I'll try it
Do you explain how to set this up? The title would have me believe there would be an explanation not just a demo. Sorry, cutting into my flight time to watch it all.
Great question, I do have a video on how to create the rig and today I created a video on what my settings are and how it works. Subscribe to my UA-cam channel to get the notification, it should be up within a couple of days.
Are you referring to the logos? If so, that’s an entirely different video that I haven’t made. Essentially, find the folder that contains the original DDS file in your saved folder( maybe livery cockpit) open it in photoshop or gimp, find the correct file for that panel, make your changes, save, allow it to override the old file, launch DCS I believe you’d need to select the correct file in the “cockpit” option. I created that well over a year ago so I can’t recall exactly how I did it.
Hi and thanks for your comment. If you’re referring to the rails, I use them to hang on to a I look over my shoulders, mostly when dogfighting. Just another way to get immersed in VR
This is amazing. And I understand you’re doing this from a laptop. I travel A LOT so having a mobile setup is important for me. How powerful of a laptop do I need in order to run DCS in VR?
There really isn't anything to do other than make sure the controllers are selected in the DCS option VR settings. The controllers do not work / engage in all aircraft.
Your DCS should recognize them, if not there is VR tab in the settings, ensure the "controller" tab is selected. Here is one of my videos on my set up. This is part of a playlist that might give you a good look at how I use the controllers. ua-cam.com/video/t8QtTtk7yDk/v-deo.htmlsi=RXL0UTHCznXbg37P
I haven't flown in other flight sims so I can not speak on those however, this is native to DCS World. Here is a playlist from my UA-cam channel that covers all things VR in DCS .ua-cam.com/play/PLPSxsDNGEhNNeoY4JkxSx038R35fic4__.html
nice video, inspiring! This made me try DCS one more time with quest, feels much better with 2.9 update, but I still struggle with basic stuff. Wondering how you, having such setup, cope with: 1. Cold start - uncaging the throttles for engines separately. Do I really need to use the keyboard? seems, after all, the easiest way for those 2 single key presses 2. Firing weapons - I can't seem to even fire a gun, as it requires different setup. Do you have full capability of missiles and gun firing in that setup? 3. How do you slew the rectangle in within the radar? It's pretty easy in VTOLVR, wondering if same can be achieved in DCS? And several others, like running tests, where 2 buttons need to be pressed at the time. Leaving a like and would love to have your feedback on those :)
Some of the slewing can be achieved through number pad as a kneeboard. I looking to add a a XBox controller to give me more freedom to “move” things in the radar. ua-cam.com/users/shortsVq1Xak58MuQ?si=7oMT5BmDUBLTF40t
@@jakesvrfightclubnetwork3718 oh, so no way to use the mini joysticks from the quest controllers? I imagine if it'd be possible, you'd be using more radar and Amraams instead of heatseekers (browsed quite a number of your videos). Sadly, the video you've linked is not available for me - there's an idea on how use the xbox controller? thanks for the reply btw, appreciate it
Correct, the mini joysticks on the controllers don’t work after I insert into my controller mount. Was contacted by a guy working on a script to allow for it. Coming soon!
@@af123ruus3 this seems to be a trend in the new update. I had a problem with the laser on the controllers not being aligned correctly in the standard DCS, then I switched to the MT version and everything worked great, maybe try switching to the MT version, are you play the steam version?
what do you manage to fire and switch weapons? I have a quest 3 and managed to do all the things your doing minus rudder control(i have no pedals. but for me I cant use any other buttons on the respective controller when holding the stick or throttle.
hi jake i need you hlp advice pls.is there any way i can contact you? i installed dcs today with oculus 2 but the controller only works with stick and throttle and nothing else...no other knob controling neither gear lever etc.pls hlp
Hi and thanks for the question. Here is how I built my rig, it’s grown since then but you’ll get an idea of how you can build something similar. I also have other videos on my rig set up on my UA-cam channel ua-cam.com/video/5PpROcJhGH4/v-deo.htmlsi=tBY6CvMqhcr04tZt
Hi, first, you can actually press buttons, flip switches and turn dials on the aircraft panels with the controller. As to firing weapons, you will need to bind the appropriate buttons to some sort of device. I use USB mini button devices to accomplish that. Here is a video on what I use. ua-cam.com/users/shortsUTAQ_h8k624?feature=share
If you are using the Oculus Quest 2 there is nothing extra to do except launch your Oculus app, then go to the desktop, launch DCS and be sure to select the VR hand controllers under the VR tab in the "options" settings. Checkout my playlist in UA-cam on how to incorporate the controllers ua-cam.com/play/PLPSxsDNGEhNNeoY4JkxSx038R35fic4__.html
@@jakesvrfightclubnetwork3718 K, thanks. I will give it a try in a minute, just came across your channel so I have been watching a few vids. Side question, what is your p.c. setup? I have a 3070/I7 33 gig mem. Thinking if I might need to upgrade some of it.
@@jakesvrfightclubnetwork3718 Ypur graphics looks so much better than mine. I use the oculus tool tray and well as the openxr toolkit. I still get very fuzzy fonts in the cockpit. From your videos it does not seem like you have that issue. If not, do you mind letting me know what your settings are? I looked through ypur videos and could not find one with that info though I might of missed it.
@@bg.k.7000 Actually my in game graphics are fuzzy too. My Quest 2 headset records much cleaner than what I actually see in my headset. After a few minutes inside VR you get used to it, what I look for and usually get is a smooth flight with "ok" graphics.
@@rehaburckin7269 you need to be sure that the controllers are enabled in the VR tab under option. Keep in mind that the controllers may not work in every aircraft. Which aircraft are you flying?
@@jakesvrfightclubnetwork3718 Thank you, The controls are active, and enabled but they do not appear in the main menu of DCS before selecting any module.
@@jakesvrfightclubnetwork3718 this will be the second time i play this game, I have no additional equipment, on your mapping what do you do with the bottons of the quest 2 controllers I was thinking on mapping those for shooting
@@MPPC10 Unfortunately I do not think they are recognized in DCS. I have a playlist on my UA-cam page that shows how I use the controllers in DCS. Here is one of those videos ua-cam.com/video/5PpROcJhGH4/v-deo.html
Actually yes, I’ve tried the top end VIRPL and still prefer my set up. It’s all about the amount of resistance I have on my stick. I didn’t get that with the VIRPL at all. It just felt flimsy to me IMO
Great question. I use a number pad as a kneeboard strapped to my leg. I can assign up 15 keyboard shortcuts there. On some aircraft it may require more so I recently added a Redragon keyboard. I like to use the controllers because it allows me to push buttons, turn knobs and click switches on the aircraft panels.
At this point, I have flown in the F/A 18, Some of the older planes (WW2), A-10C, UH-1 Huey and Apache. Best thing to do is the trial versions of the plane to see if they are compatible.
Nice, im quest 3 user and do the same with DCS and also with Vtol vr, my only question is how do you do to push the buttons of the virtual joystick in the cockpit? I mean to fly the plane is good but how do you do to select targets or weapons and fire without a real joystick?
Really great! This is the way the VR controllers should be used. Ive been a55 linch flat panel but cant go back after trying my quest2 a few days ago. I didnt notice you clicking for changing views. You must have mapped buttons but you didn't seem to be touching the kneeboard or scrolling to rotate exterior views. I saw you with the 4 button USB on stick and throttle but is that enough?How to?
@@oldgoldtopgoldtop6039 Thanks for your comment. As to the exterior views, I record that separately then edit it in to match the original action. I do have some buttons mapped to my kneeboard which is really handy. If you don't have a base shaker / Buttkicker or a five point harness look into getting those, they really add to the VR immersion level. I have several videos here that go over my set up and controllers
@@jakesvrfightclubnetwork3718 Thanks! But I think I expressed myself badly (my English is very bad xd). What I want to know is how can I change the sensitivity of the stick (using it with the virtual hands) because I feel it VERY sensitive.
Oh, if you’re using the controllers I’m not sure you can however, under the vr tab in the options page there is an option to adjust the controllers. I’ve never used that but it might be what you are looking for
New vtol vr update looks sick
Awesome I bet it's cheaper too.
😂
Since my start of both DCS and Quest2, most amazing and creative video ever seen.
Thanks, be kind, share-like-subscribe
i was thinking about this exact type of rig its cool to see it actually exists good job man
should be a must for any Sim where VR is an option.... i wish il2 had this
2 Questions:
1. Have you considered making the DIY haptic gloves by @LucasVRTech on youtube?
2. After you put the flight stick controller in in the hold you have. If you let go will the flight stick remain centered? I ask because I notice that you first need to grab the control in the aircraft before you can rest it, this makes me wonder if you have to constantly offset you flight stick because where you grabbed the flight stick in the game and where the thing holding your flight stick might not line up.
Hi Mike, thanks for the question. I have no knowledge of the haptic gloves, I’m using my controllers as my hands. If @lucasvrtech wants to send me gloves, I’ll surely use them in my videos. As to the flight stick. I use a rubber coupler at the base of the flight stick which provides the perfect amount of tension and keeps it centered. I have a video here on UA-cam that shows how it works
I think your setup is the bomb I like it all I need is a oculus and the ingredients and I already know where to find cool gamers computer no hotas I like it I'll try it
Thanks, VR is mind blowing
this is amazing man, so creative and interesting... 👍
Thanks a lot!
I like the idea very clever in a good way I will seriously consider it when I get started.
Do you explain how to set this up? The title would have me believe there would be an explanation not just a demo. Sorry, cutting into my flight time to watch it all.
Great question, I do have a video on how to create the rig and today I created a video on what my settings are and how it works. Subscribe to my UA-cam channel to get the notification, it should be up within a couple of days.
this is amazing
All that and you're not using Voice Attack!? Good stuff though!
I want to try it that way
awesome
but how do you do that?
How does the TDC work and all the buttons on the HOTAS transfer to the grips?
No, I use two mini USB devices and a number pad to map the controls I need. You can not use any of the buttons on the controllers
Great video!
Which file do you have to change to get the writing on your upper UFC-part ???
Are you referring to the logos? If so, that’s an entirely different video that I haven’t made. Essentially, find the folder that contains the original DDS file in your saved folder( maybe livery cockpit) open it in photoshop or gimp, find the correct file for that panel, make your changes, save, allow it to override the old file, launch DCS I believe you’d need to select the correct file in the “cockpit” option. I created that well over a year ago so I can’t recall exactly how I did it.
Bro has real pilot suıt 👁️👄👁️
Well I am a real retired USAF photographer LOL
Super vidéo 👍 and what is the things just behind grip of the the throttle? Thanks
Hi and thanks for your comment. If you’re referring to the rails, I use them to hang on to a I look over my shoulders, mostly when dogfighting. Just another way to get immersed in VR
very cool rig dude👍
how about a Video on how to set this all up. i have the 1st Rift with touch controls. but i would think setting it up would be close to the same.
Hi ya, thanks for your interest. You’d like a video on how to set up the VR settings or the rig. I’ve been looking for content ideas.
This is amazing. And I understand you’re doing this from a laptop. I travel A LOT so having a mobile setup is important for me. How powerful of a laptop do I need in order to run DCS in VR?
I have a ROG Zephyrus 12 Gen i9-12900H 2.5 GHZ, 40 GB Ram, 64 bit op sys x64 based processor with RTX 3070 card
I think that you should work a bit on audio.
Game is a too loud, and your voice is kinda screeching.
This is so sick 😂 love this, question does the palm grip need to be held down the entire time when holding the virtual HOTAS?
I’ve created a custom mount that keeps it pressed in ua-cam.com/video/MS1hjWZakI4/v-deo.htmlsi=mtfRKdVR7fJTuaA2
@@jakesvrfightclubnetwork3718 so sick! You should be selling this stuff you're sitting on some gold
How do i setup the quest controllers ?
There really isn't anything to do other than make sure the controllers are selected in the DCS option VR settings. The controllers do not work / engage in all aircraft.
Yo JVRFCN, Good day. Well done sir.
you use your quest 2 as standalone VR or does this requires a High Spec PC?
DCS World is a PC flight sim. I run it on my gaming laptop.
Nice video! Could you please tell me how to enable vr controllers to work as hands?
Your DCS should recognize them, if not there is VR tab in the settings, ensure the "controller" tab is selected. Here is one of my videos on my set up. This is part of a playlist that might give you a good look at how I use the controllers. ua-cam.com/video/t8QtTtk7yDk/v-deo.htmlsi=RXL0UTHCznXbg37P
@@jakesvrfightclubnetwork3718 Thank you very very much! It's much clearer to me now!
How is this possible!? I've been looking for sims other than FS4 that allow for quest controllers exclusively. Can you explain the procedure for this?
I haven't flown in other flight sims so I can not speak on those however, this is native to DCS World. Here is a playlist from my UA-cam channel that covers all things VR in DCS .ua-cam.com/play/PLPSxsDNGEhNNeoY4JkxSx038R35fic4__.html
nice video, inspiring! This made me try DCS one more time with quest, feels much better with 2.9 update, but I still struggle with basic stuff. Wondering how you, having such setup, cope with:
1. Cold start - uncaging the throttles for engines separately. Do I really need to use the keyboard? seems, after all, the easiest way for those 2 single key presses
2. Firing weapons - I can't seem to even fire a gun, as it requires different setup. Do you have full capability of missiles and gun firing in that setup?
3. How do you slew the rectangle in within the radar? It's pretty easy in VTOLVR, wondering if same can be achieved in DCS?
And several others, like running tests, where 2 buttons need to be pressed at the time.
Leaving a like and would love to have your feedback on those :)
oh, actually, saw some other comments, guessing the 1 and 2 would be answered with the keypad. Still the question 3 remain :)
Some of the slewing can be achieved through number pad as a kneeboard. I looking to add a a XBox controller to give me more freedom to “move” things in the radar. ua-cam.com/users/shortsVq1Xak58MuQ?si=7oMT5BmDUBLTF40t
@@jakesvrfightclubnetwork3718 oh, so no way to use the mini joysticks from the quest controllers? I imagine if it'd be possible, you'd be using more radar and Amraams instead of heatseekers (browsed quite a number of your videos).
Sadly, the video you've linked is not available for me - there's an idea on how use the xbox controller?
thanks for the reply btw, appreciate it
Correct, the mini joysticks on the controllers don’t work after I insert into my controller mount. Was contacted by a guy working on a script to allow for it. Coming soon!
@@jakesvrfightclubnetwork3718 ok, thanks! fingers crossed on making it work! If DCS could be flown the way VTOLVR is, would be amazing.
Can you engage the hands but still use hotas, potentially being able to just use the hand vs. mouse for all interactions along with your hotas?
I don’t have a HOTAS to test it but I think that’s possible. I’m posting a video now on my settings and how VR works within DCS
here is the link ua-cam.com/video/t8QtTtk7yDk/v-deo.htmlsi=V18IaJbT-U2vW0zx
bro no fucking way. thats sick!!!
when i try to play DCS VR the hands not show up, i have checked all of the boxes in the VR settings
@@af123ruus3 this seems to be a trend in the new update. I had a problem with the laser on the controllers not being aligned correctly in the standard DCS, then I switched to the MT version and everything worked great, maybe try switching to the MT version, are you play the steam version?
@@jakesvrfightclubnetwork3718 im playing the one you can download online
Nice setup
thanks, you can find "how to build" videos here on my YT channel
@@jakesvrfightclubnetwork3718 thanks ill check them out
what do you manage to fire and switch weapons? I have a quest 3 and managed to do all the things your doing minus rudder control(i have no pedals. but for me I cant use any other buttons on the respective controller when holding the stick or throttle.
That is the same problem I had so I figured it out using mini USB buttons www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRc8EVB4/
hi jake i need you hlp advice pls.is there any way i can contact you?
i installed dcs today with oculus 2 but the controller only works with stick and throttle and nothing else...no other knob controling neither gear lever etc.pls hlp
you can email me at jakesvrfightclub@hotmail.com
Do the controllers work on other modules like razbam or heatblur?
I'm not sure, if you can download the "trial" version of the aircraft, you can test it.
now try a air refuel
Everything is amazing in VR. I did a video on that too. Checkout my channel
Are you using your actual fingertips to push buttons, or clicking the triggers on controllers to activate the buttons?
Well, I'm using the controllers (triggers) to click buttons, turn knobs and use the joy stick and throttle. DCS does allow this in some aircraft.
There is a way to use the hand tracking as really good controllers too if you're interested.
@@mobius7089 Yes I am interested, how does it work?
do you have a setup guide?
Hi and thanks for the question. Here is how I built my rig, it’s grown since then but you’ll get an idea of how you can build something similar. I also have other videos on my rig set up on my UA-cam channel ua-cam.com/video/5PpROcJhGH4/v-deo.htmlsi=tBY6CvMqhcr04tZt
@@jakesvrfightclubnetwork3718 Ty so much
@@elnobatohrd8145 I hope it helps
how can i use missile and guns with the controller?
Hi, first, you can actually press buttons, flip switches and turn dials on the aircraft panels with the controller. As to firing weapons, you will need to bind the appropriate buttons to some sort of device. I use USB mini button devices to accomplish that. Here is a video on what I use. ua-cam.com/users/shortsUTAQ_h8k624?feature=share
How can i use my hands like that??!
If you are using the Oculus Quest 2 there is nothing extra to do except launch your Oculus app, then go to the desktop, launch DCS and be sure to select the VR hand controllers under the VR tab in the "options" settings. Checkout my playlist in UA-cam on how to incorporate the controllers ua-cam.com/play/PLPSxsDNGEhNNeoY4JkxSx038R35fic4__.html
I was really bummed after waiting 9 hours for this to download only for it not to work with my quest 2 controllers
Hmm, what didn’t work?
Hey! will it work if I use a hotas too? So I could push the buttons and stuff while still using a hotas.
I do noy have a HOTAS but I would think it would work. You would need to pick up the controller to do that because the controllers are your hands
Gotta see a dogfight
I’ll put one together shortly. Subscribe so you don’t miss it
Question, so what is your setup for the hands to be seen? I have the quest 2, but i cant seem to get the hands to show. Any special setup?
Nothing special just make sure the controllers are turn on in the options tab under VR
@@jakesvrfightclubnetwork3718 K, thanks. I will give it a try in a minute, just came across your channel so I have been watching a few vids. Side question, what is your p.c. setup? I have a 3070/I7 33 gig mem. Thinking if I might need to upgrade some of it.
@@bg.k.7000 I have a gaming laptop with RTX NVIDIA 3070 card. I'm hoping to upgrade to a high end PC this year.
@@jakesvrfightclubnetwork3718 Ypur graphics looks so much better than mine. I use the oculus tool tray and well as the openxr toolkit. I still get very fuzzy fonts in the cockpit. From your videos it does not seem like you have that issue. If not, do you mind letting me know what your settings are? I looked through ypur videos and could not find one with that info though I might of missed it.
@@bg.k.7000 Actually my in game graphics are fuzzy too. My Quest 2 headset records much cleaner than what I actually see in my headset. After a few minutes inside VR you get used to it, what I look for and usually get is a smooth flight with "ok" graphics.
How are you recording your dcs gameplay?
I record it directly from the headset
Hello, I have Quest 2 . I also have hotas, can I use hotas without using Quest 2's hand controls? Thanks in advance
Hi, yes I believe you can. I have only used my controllers but I would think most people use a HOTAS even in VR
Let me know how it goes
@@jakesvrfightclubnetwork3718 Hi, I turned on DCS in Quest 2, but even though the hand controls are active, they do not work or even appear.
@@rehaburckin7269 you need to be sure that the controllers are enabled in the VR tab under option. Keep in mind that the controllers may not work in every aircraft. Which aircraft are you flying?
@@jakesvrfightclubnetwork3718 Thank you, The controls are active, and enabled but they do not appear in the main menu of DCS before selecting any module.
Are you able to use the trim switch on the joystick?
No, you can assign a button to that task. I use mini USB devices and a knee pad for stuff like that
How do you operate functions on the stick ans throttle?
I use a number pad as a kneeboard and a couple of mini USB buttons for those functions
www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRvfXhYK/
how do you SHOOT? wich buttons you use
I have the trigger button mapped to my USB mini button ua-cam.com/users/shortsUTAQ_h8k624?feature=share
@@jakesvrfightclubnetwork3718 this will be the second time i play this game, I have no additional equipment, on your mapping what do you do with the bottons of the quest 2 controllers I was thinking on mapping those for shooting
@@MPPC10 Unfortunately I do not think they are recognized in DCS. I have a playlist on my UA-cam page that shows how I use the controllers in DCS. Here is one of those videos ua-cam.com/video/5PpROcJhGH4/v-deo.html
Great setup! But the Hotas is not doable I guess?
Actually yes, I’ve tried the top end VIRPL and still prefer my set up. It’s all about the amount of resistance I have on my stick. I didn’t get that with the VIRPL at all. It just felt flimsy to me IMO
You can if you use just the band tracking
What's your pc specs appropriate
They are here in the details ua-cam.com/video/t8QtTtk7yDk/v-deo.htmlsi=vL1NH-tQMNhQn3Rt
does this still require petals
yes it does
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
What do you do about the Hotas Funktion on Stick and Throttle - how do you select those? Otherwise great Idea! Cudos!
Great question. I use a number pad as a kneeboard strapped to my leg. I can assign up 15 keyboard shortcuts there. On some aircraft it may require more so I recently added a Redragon keyboard. I like to use the controllers because it allows me to push buttons, turn knobs and click switches on the aircraft panels.
is that a mod if not can you tell me how to activate that
Hi, no it’s not a mod it just standard in DCS however, you do need to activate the controllers under the option/vr tab
@@jakesvrfightclubnetwork3718 could you make a tutorial I cant find It
@@jakesvrfightclubnetwork3718can you make a tutorial I cant find
@@jakesvrfightclubnetwork3718 it worked but i cant press any buttons
@@luisklos-nickel6623 try this ua-cam.com/video/t8QtTtk7yDk/v-deo.htmlsi=o6FZ7q_svgsljh2s&t=628
What modules can i use the quest controls in?
At this point, I have flown in the F/A 18, Some of the older planes (WW2), A-10C, UH-1 Huey and Apache. Best thing to do is the trial versions of the plane to see if they are compatible.
@@jakesvrfightclubnetwork3718 what about the mirage F1?
I'm not sure. Get the trial version and test it
@@jakesvrfightclubnetwork3718 no, I don't want to, it's alot of hassle.
You do it and let me know..
Nice, im quest 3 user and do the same with DCS and also with Vtol vr, my only question is how do you do to push the buttons of the virtual joystick in the cockpit? I mean to fly the plane is good but how do you do to select targets or weapons and fire without a real joystick?
I use these www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRc7jGWc/
Really great! This is the way the VR controllers should be used. Ive been a55 linch flat panel but cant go back after trying my quest2 a few days ago. I didnt notice you clicking for changing views. You must have mapped buttons but you didn't seem to be touching the kneeboard or scrolling to rotate exterior views. I saw you with the 4 button USB on stick and throttle but is that enough?How to?
@@oldgoldtopgoldtop6039 Thanks for your comment. As to the exterior views, I record that separately then edit it in to match the original action. I do have some buttons mapped to my kneeboard which is really handy. If you don't have a base shaker / Buttkicker or a five point harness look into getting those, they really add to the VR immersion level. I have several videos here that go over my set up and controllers
how can i change sens??
@@j7D4h you can change exterior camera scenes by using the F keys on your keyboard.
@@jakesvrfightclubnetwork3718 Thanks! But I think I expressed myself badly (my English is very bad xd). What I want to know is how can I change the sensitivity of the stick (using it with the virtual hands) because I feel it VERY sensitive.
Oh, if you’re using the controllers I’m not sure you can however, under the vr tab in the options page there is an option to adjust the controllers. I’ve never used that but it might be what you are looking for
@@jakesvrfightclubnetwork3718 Ty!
lol hell nah. Track IR is the way to go.
Can't compare the immersion though.
100% agree.
I have both and yeah the immersion in VR can’t be beaten with Track IR. However, I think the controls are much better in Track IR.