The Most Interesting BORING Video Ever | CNC Machining Vlog
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
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#CNC #Machining #Machinist
MB017E7JAFBH4VC
MB01EZY7EKH3S1E
My experience with manual boring: far too small, far too small, far too small, far too small, far too small ........ too big
True with so many things.
Cut. Measure. Adjust. Cut. Done.
Kidding aside, it depends on the accuracy of your boring head. The one he is using looks pretty course compared to some I've used. I've used a D'Andrea head that moves .004" dia on one full dial rotation.
In many materials you want to avoid "nibbling" away in tiny increments because it can work-harden the surface of the hole. This causes the cutter to deflect away from the work piece, to the point where you adjust and adjust and the hole stays the same size, until it gets enough pressure on it that it takes all of your previous adjustments all at once, causing the condition you described above ;-)
@@cf2851 i have some problem with iron cast material.dia 6.0 tolerance 0.004 micron with deep 6.5. can you suggest what i should do. go always no enter when i run new part. i use drill 5.8 and interpolation endmill 5 to make hole dia 5.96.. only 40 micron left by my boring always fail to make diameter that i want. always repass it. i use carbide pcd insert.is radius of insert is a problem? i use radius 0.4 or 0.2
How to torture a metric person.
I felt that XD
I already give up when he try to explain the incriminate
Haha yea I felt that too
And that’s how I feel when I see metric. To me this made perfect sense lol
@@benwilms3942 there is literally no reason to understand imp if you work in europe.
happy to use metric
Me too
I'm actually a bit surprised it didn't go oversize since the second cut was a lot lighter than the first. You guys obviously know your tools/material though! If there was 0.008" material i would have gone .004-.005 radial cut first, then adjusted and cut the rest so that the cuts would be equal.
Exact what I do, it might be a little slower, but damn it's accurate!
That hole went over size. That 1.0000 Deltronic certainly had more than .0002 clearance... and the 1.0002 NO GO pin was never aligned properly to test the fit.
Each "Division"
"et cetera"
This is awesome, I start a new job in 3 days on cnc boring and am super excited.
An interesting approach which obviously works well for you, I'd love to know how much the initial cut was...
Personally I'd leave around 0.2mm on, set the boring bar on the bore, take a 0.1mm cut, measure then take the rest... its been a while since I've been on the tools but I got pretty good at boring there for a while, never had the probe to be able to try what you've done here but even so I think I'd try to set it to take a semi finish then finish cut.
The reason being is lets say you set it to 25.4mm but you've got a rough hole of 25.2mm.
Your first cut would be 0.2mm approx and then lets say you have 0.02mm left, if you adjust your boring head by 0.02mm you run the risk of cutting oversize as you'll be taking 0.02 plus a spring cut... this is why I always try to keep my semi finish (trial finish) cut and finish cut the same DOC... you can also adjust you rpm to suit so your cutting forces are kept the same between semi and finish cuts....
High production I would approach different as well but for what looks like a 1 off part in titanium I'd have no problems explaining a trial finish cut to the Boss...
You'd be better off just interpolating the bore, you can still achieve that limit and it is less setting up
Bore gauge would be better than the gauge pins. Because you can "see" run-out. Gauge pins are good to know the smallest part of the bore, but do not tell the whole story. But I'm knit picking. Great work.
I don't think that is nit picking. Qualifying precision holes is difficult and Deltronic pins may or may not get you there.
Not really, most are 3 point contact and 2 people or even the same person often can't get .0001" consistency! For speed and accuracy pins rule, if your process is likely to produce holes that are not round production pins have relief ground on the no-go pin for 2 point contact. The pin bouncing in the hole proves it's round and precision holes always get a pin or shaft during assembly not a bore gauge!
QC can also be a contactual condition. If the client is happy with gage pins - so be it.
@@calizess agreed. It was stated in the video that's the best way to measure a hole and I don't really agree because it doesn't tell you the whole story.
@@P8ntbaLLA56 Some of the old timers like to submit the same part over and over again for QC approval just to see how different it is or how many times they'll reject the same part they passed the day before! You'd be a prime target with your .0001" bore gage! 😁
I love everything about this channel. Can't wait until August when I start my engineering degree in CIM, CAD and CNC.
In germany, one of the first things we learn using a boringhead is to take the play out of the dial, this generally means only adjusting the diameter up and if we have to adjust it dow, to first spin the dial backwarts for one round and then set the final diameter while adjusting the diameter up.
Agreed, which is standard if your boring head mechanics have play.
That’s correct and even place some pressure against the bar so as to have a reliable adjustment all the time especially when using shitter boring heads.
This man is using a fairly high end head so results are easier to achieve .
This video has ignored spring cuts and amount of material removal of course.
Thought was called taking out backlash
@@markmall5757 I have to say that is the info I'm interested in considering how he approached his cuts...
@@djipreview in german the words for backlash and play are actually pretty close to each other.
Got laid off couple months back but the learning never stops.. thank you titan and everyone!
Deltronic pins are perfectly acceptable for checking +/- .0005" tolerances. When you get down to +/-.0001 you need to use air gages or something like a Sunnen bore gage in a temperature controlled room/area. I use to do a lot of these kind of tolerances on a Sip Jig borer. Another acceptable measuring device for +/-.0005 is a Tri-mic or Intrimik. Like some have mentioned before, you need to be careful using pins for checking holes because they are only as accurate as the roundness of the hole you are checking.
Sure, out-of-round will confound assessment with pins. How big a concern is this for a bored hole? Something has to have gone very wrong to get significantly out-of-round using a boring bar.
Somebody’s knew what he’s doing.
As a beginner I have such a hard time with boring bars
Thanks for posting part 2 👍 so, if I recall correctly, the requirement was 1" + 0.0005"/ -0 (from the previous video) and you achieved somewhere between 1" and 1.0002" - that is pretty impressive. It would have been interesting to have compared the 1.0001" pin, judging from the fit of the 1" pin I think it doubtful it would go all the way in, even if it started. Given you're well within spec that would be a bit pointless exercise other than for interest's sake. I see the tolerance of the pins is 40 millionths - I think they are a little better quality than mine but then I'm not doing aerospace parts! Keep up the good work 👍 just a thought, 0.0002" is 5.08 microns (I'm Metric), the width of a human hair is between 17 and 180 microns
Never really seen the appeal/need for a boring head on a decent CNC machine?
@@Chazzyp100 an interpolated radius is not as good as a stationary axis. This is why there are cnc lathes.
@@Eluderatnight I understand that but for the purpose they're using the boring head you could interpolate and achieve the same limit?
Charlie, Circular interpolation is a nice feature. But a boring head is far more accurate. When the hole calls for a .0005 total tolerance, interpolation will not get you there in production. There are too many variables. One great technique is to drill, rough circular interpolate and then boring head to size. I have run bearing holes that were 3.0" diameter 2 .0" deep, + .0000/-.0005 with no problems. 200 piece runs.
I really wish he had used “division” instead of “deviation” and “vernier” in place of “veneer”. This has the young guys in my shop asking me questions and getting mad when I correct the terms.
That hole is .0002-.0003 over 1 inch cause 1 inch pin will not go in a 1 inch hole.
1.0000
Went
1.0002 didn’t go
Well within the +-.0005
@@TITANSofCNC I am not saying it wasn't good just that a 1.0 pin will not go in an 1.0 hole
@@toddwilburn4297 Thank you captain obvious.
@@justinl.3587 maybe obvious to an experienced machinist but probably not to most of the people watching this video and Todd is absolutely correct, if that hole had a tolerance of +/-.0002" then he would most likely been right at the top of tolerance or scraped the part.
I thought the same thing. It would be a press fit. But wtf do I know. Still in spec, but over shot the goal of 1.00000“.
Sigh. This “hole size” “pin fit” test has always been a massive confusion in every shop I’ve been in. “Well if the 1.000” pin goes and the 1.0002 doesn’t ,Then it’s 1.0000 perfect”
No
If a 1.0000 pin goes, there is space in the bore. How much is unknown , but it is bigger or the pin wouldn’t go in. I would say this is somewhere around 1.00015, to 1.0002.
For a 1.0000 perfect hole size , your looking at checking with a .9999-.9998 pin floating in , and a 1.0000 pin as a line fit or a “no go” pin.
Yah after 30+ years you learn things … I learned this from an master inspector, when I couldn’t understand why my “pin went” in, but the zeiss CMM is showing it’s oversize by a few microns.
He then explained it to me and I was like “ ohhhhh “ right makes sense.
A perfect 1.0 hole is not going to accept an perfect 1.0 pin . Bottom line.
I have always thought that and I'm fairly new to the trade. Thanks for clearing that up for me!
This is correct. I have made thousands of aerospace parts in my life time. When there is a callout +/-.0005 or less on a bore, I always confirm with the customer what is the method of inspection they use . If we are using gage pins we use the .0002 rule.
When I worked for an engineering company many years ago we worked in imperial and metric but working to tenths of a thousandth was a bit much for what we were doing. 😞.
Best sound ever 6:20
Nice job Stu, nice job.
Well done ,Tony from Canada 🇨🇦
Why no fine boring cycle? Keep up the great content! ty
Nice job, Stewart !
Question : No chamfering needed on the 1-inchers ?
Tried to keep the video short and to the point...
Ah Get It?
No Chamfer:-)
Anyways, chamfered it after
I had no idea you could probe a boring head. Is there a reason you chose a boring head instead of a reamer? I generally see boring heads as a means to achieve diameters too large to buy a reamer in, but you can buy 1" reamers.
Readers follow a crooked hole.
Boring is Truer
A wonderful explanation of gauge pins and setting boring bars. I'll never need it but now I know. Thanks Amacf
The hole went over size! That 1.0000 Deltronic certainly had more than .0002 clearance... and the 1.0002 NO GO pin was never aligned properly, and if it had been aligned properly it would have gone to. That a large chunk of titanium to trash like that. You should have crept up un that cut with balanced dept of cuts.
Sorry to say it's not exactly one inch if it's accommodating the one inch deltronic
Very nicely done video. You have just proven to me that a tool presetter can be a necessity rather than just a time saver. The amount of time and effort I've had to spend just to get a bore that close to nominal before final adjustments.. Thank you!
Tool setter and probe are absolute necessities.
If you are going to bore holes in Imperial units (inches), make sure you buy the boring head with an inch scale to avoid having to convert your divisions into inches!
finally an educational video, instead of just making some chips.
What? We make a ton of educational videos... check out academy.titansofcnc.com
i know, but seriously, when was the latest time you did a dedicated educational video, not just setting up a machine and getting speeding tickets from the milling police. the academy site, long time since there was an update there, nothing much happening there except for the new interface, been waiting for you to finish the 5 axis series, right now there is just one that is a 3 part set, cad-cam-machine, titan-200m, and titan-139m is just done with the cad-cam. the rest is cad, if it is supposed to be that way, i apologise for bitching, if not, i'm not.
@@hemligagosta6554 , man, you really don't know how to be grateful for something you recieve for free...
I think your message should have sounded something lke this: "Thank you for this amazing video, looking forward to more videos of this "diameter"."
@@TITANSofCNC yes but don't explain how to get small tollerances
On the boring head I use at work, locking the set screw moves the bar a thousand or two after you adjust it . It’s nice to not have to worry about that.
Boring Head : Ya Daga Daga Daga Daga Dag !
Precision Rod : Yupppppppp-Nokkkkkkkkkk
He : That's perfect Sound.
Mmmmmmm So it's about the sound.
Hehehe , great video and quite educational
Watching this makes me realise how big our boring tools are at work, our biggest one is 670mm or over 26 inches
don't calculate it to inches for them, otherwise they will never switch to metric
When you say a tolerance of 5 tenths, what does that mean? 5 tenths to me sounds like half an inch. Do you mean 5 ten thousandths? Thanks for all the videos.
A tenth of a thousandth so .0001" is a tenth in machinist "language"
can you show how you set up the probing cycle and were it showed you the exact dia that it probe?
Yes
I literally just finished programming the Titan-1M part on feature cam at TulsaTech in my machining program. Is there any way to purchase one of those shirts hes wearing? Would love one.
I would like to see if you can finish hard steel with a key way
DIV is a Division but not "Deviation"
Why would you buy a set of those pins, instead of using a boring gauge??
taper. no hole is perfect due to deflection. that's why we ream a hole after cutting it or do a spring pass.
How would you hold a tighter bore tolerance on a few shallow bores(1/2, 5/8, 3/8) about one half diameter in depth with a tolerance of minus nothing, plus .0003. Having rubbing issues from time to time trying to get it to come in. Currently using tenth under low limit deltronic pins and low limit to high limit carbide class 2 pins with a small flat ground on all pins for air relief. Climate controlled shop
The veneer scale is a cheaper less effective scale that only works on thin materials that have wood grain printing on the surface. The vernier scale is still my trusted means of splitting hairs(hash marks) !
Great job and awesome!
Do you ever use air gages. They will measure size, roundness and taper on tight tolerance holes. Good for high volume jobs
Do the pins expand or contract with temperature varistions or is that not that important?
If they really want to be accurate I imagine they keep them in a temperature controlled room or area
70’
I operate this boring machine. But when the machine is in trouble. Like over bored. I'?m the one who adjust the diamond.
I knew my overseas craptacular boring head was inferior but I didn't know just how inferior it was that is a beautiful piece of equipment....
And it can be yours for only ab $1200. Plus cost of boring bars and inserts.
I never understood why they dont make holes straight thru the testing pins, as it is no you cant measure the whole hole because air will be in the way when getting to the bottom
Geez, you act like this is rocket science or something. 🤷🏽♂️
Another question, do you guys have a tip for dealing with adjustment play after you tighten the lock screw? It always comes out much smaller for me, which makes it hard to precisely tweak the boring bar in 1 shot
Locking your spindle and test indicating the boring bar would give you a pretty good idea.
.0001” test indicator is my favorite indicator for a reason. You can check soo many things with high precision. Your only limited by your creativity. Even a .0005” indicator is good as u can read between the lines to .00025” pretty easily.
Love it!
"DIV" is short for "division" (i.e. one division of the circle/rotation). "DIV" is not short for "deviation."
Beast
If you got a nickel every time you heard the "boring" pun, what color would your Lamborghini be?
Pins are tricky to use.
You have to be perfectly aligned.
That’s what I was thinking. If someone was onsize but didn’t have the pin straight then you might think the hole was smaller than it is. He must be a pro.
Love the videos keep up the good work!! For those of you who can't rely on your bore dial just use a tenths indicator attached to your table. Sweep the highspot of the boring bar and adjust accordingly on the Radius.
Maybe you guys could do a quick video on properly programming for a boring bar as it needs to be timed and moved away before retracting as to not drag the insert up the wall. You may have some tricks to guys like myself not be so nervous about setting them up and running them. Great videos and keep up the great work!
It's a while since I've used a Haas, but do you not use M19 for spindle orientation and G76 fine boring (or similar), which has stop/move away/retract parameters in the cycle?
Yep, M19 orientates spindle ... we just bored in and bored out with a G85
PS.
We will do more “Boring Videos” 😂😂😂
Oh look a Kaiser boring head , wait what ? Oh got it “copy paste” .
I will never buy any other brand.
Nicely done 👍
On the final pass did you change F&S?
No
Please add more on the setup probing. Like adding screen shots of the controller after probing.
We're the holes predrilled? What size was the predrilling? What tool was used to predrill?
We will in the future but also have probing Tutorials on our Free academy.titansofcnc.com
The drilling video went on this UA-cam channel last week.
Please respect your Europe and do subtitles with metric
Get a calculator and convert it yourself or use google. I use metric for just about everything I make/machine at work since most of our stuff goes overseas. I don't expect anyone to cater to me and do the calculations for me. Just my two cents.
Must be ridged. Most boring has a .0006-.0008 spring on a free pass
Pins are fine for measuring a bored hole, especially if the tolerance isn't super precise and if you are on time constraints but I wouldn't go as far as to say they are the best way. Measuring on a CMM or using the in machine probe is much better because you can more accurately measure the size, circularity and taper between the top and bottom of the diameter.
I believe he said when not using a CMM.
@@TITANSofCNC I just re-watched the part where he measures the bore using the pins, did not hear him say anything about a CMM...
@@TITANSofCNC in my experience Pin Gauges are good for only the first few mm of a hole/ Bore, how do you qualify the bottom of the bore is not tapered outwards? I would use a combination of Gauge Pins and either a Bore Micrometer or Air Gauge depending on toleranceing requirements. Is it possible to show more of the Inspection and FAIR side of this? I know customers can be unhappy about this process being shown on their parts so i can understand if its not possible
Dang this looks expensive (if scrapped).
We have the same type of boring bar where i work. Only its MBM and not kennametal
Why wasn't he using a torque wrench to lock it?
Or just use a bore gauge
You need to learn diference between deviation and division.
That's a perfect sound!
I really don't believe they use inches in rockets
Interesting video, too bad I'll never have a VMC that can take advantage of that kind of precision. That Deltronic pin set (0.9988 to 1.0012 by 0.0001 steps) costs ~$300 which is less than I thought it would be. Of course the boring head (not including boring bar) is $1200. Then again, the price SpaceX pays for the part is probably astronomical. Literally.
BTW, those are 'divisions' not 'deviations'. And what is this with the 'veneer' scale. It's a vernier scale. Two R's. It would rhyme with Turnier if that were a word.
Obviously these guys are rookies, you use a bore gage to check a hole of thats size and depth, I don’t think there holding tenths tolerance
Well we were the first to become inspection Delegated by SpaceX...
Hmm maybe their tests were way to easy;-/
Note we said this was a way to inspect the bore at the machine and we also use CMM, Bore Gauges, Mics etc
@Joey Actually what's obvious is that you have no idea what you're talking about...
It's boring for sure
I have questions about the recommended cutting speed of any material how can I find it? I know about formula how calculate speed and feed but the problem is with “Vc” and I actually read about cutting speed and feed in machinery hand book but it’s confusing
The plug gages should be used with "white" grease, not dry. How did you measure the first cut? Gage or another set of pins? When you use Bore Gage(set on Bore gage ring), you can see, if he hole is round or elliptical. Gage pin doesn't reveal that flaw! And most of the holes are elliptical, if the tool is not perfectly balanced - i.e right on the axis center! (due to uneven eccentric force while rotating in not perfectly balanced state).
Yeah, right, ... two equal cuts and always try to cut a bit more material in the diameter then doubled radius of the cutting insert. The surface ist clear, no bumps in the wall or other deformations. And always take the right cutting speed.
Greetings from North-Germany
could you check the diameter of the hole with your Renishaw Probe? setting 188 after probing the hole.
There are several comments about different deflections from non-uniform material removal. That is true, but they missed one thing in the process. He bored in and out of the hole. The bore out cycle probably had a very light cut no matter how much material was removed from the bore in cycle (within reason).
Couple of things. First don't forget to notify what direction to have your too facing at M19 so that when the boring bar exits it does not leave an exit mark.
Second it is always common practice to do a spring cut before making any adjustments. Other than that floorless. And for the metric guys just times the imperial figures by 25.4
You're Awesone 🤙🤙🤙💪💪💪
can we do slotting on vmc machine pls do reply
Yes
Before u bore the hole to size first check to make sure they are concentric to the datum. Then take a rough pass with boring bar , check concentricity again then finish bore it to size. And I like using bore gauges but the pin works too.
Your videos are epic dude .. i run a cnc in Australia BUT I would leave in a heart beat to work for Titian's of cnc haha . Good job fellas 🤘
ahhhh, to trust a boring head that much .
How long does it coolant last clear before turn this milky color again?
all this technology is great but just look at that part. Bored right to the wall practically. Looks like some sketchy engineering. Must exactly be 1" with .0005 tolerance. Absolute perfection. NASA spent 40 million to develop a pen that would write in space. The russians used a pencil. The grab bars on their modules looked like galvanized plumbing pipe. Then we wonder why we were grounded for over a decade. Engineering insanity.
Thank you for this amazing video, looking forward to more videos of this "diameter"
Very good video guys, love it. I do connecting rods at work, with quite tight tolerances. 5 microns in diameter and 3 in ovality. It's really complicated to hit that tolerances with 0,6 Ra (metric). I will love to see more videos about boring, and how clamping affect ovality and taper. We have good recipes, but you are the chefs we need to learn from. Thank you 🤘
Wondering what the thought process was when implementing this workholding. Was it done this way to do one part with different intention if they were being manufactured in higher volumes?
if you want to know if its right MEASURE it, no?
That's what he did with the pins..? It's a standardized way to measure holes quickly and easy. And the gauges can even be specified for one part if it's mass-production (Stop and Go-sides that hits the tolerances of the specs provided from the customer etc.)
He must have measured it when it was -.0022 because his pins didn't go down that far. The deltronic pins are a good way to double-check that the bore gage is set accurately.
In fact why don’t you have him set up a bore gauge that would be a good video because I’ve never seen deltronic pins in my life and that just sounds expensive
$300 for the set shown
you forgot to say :"BBOOWWWMMMMM" ^_^
Wrong here: he should step down 0.0002 to be correct. He made 1.0001-1.0002 hole!
Meaby he knew, but was afraid to show that 1" pin wont fit , but 0.9998 will fit? Then there will be questions here to answer , whyyyy??? :) (one inch pin will go to 1 inh hole - but only with press device...)
He was within 0.0005 tollerances for sure, but could do more precise job! Sorry for my english...
(Like for his presentation going anyway)
Impressive!
That is sick.
Thanks helped me a lot🤗
Use a tape measure and call it a day lol jk but perhaps a bore mic or air gage?
BOOOM
Are those diatomic pins expensive? 🤔
Don't u know how 2 set up a bore guage lol