It's right before Light proclaims himself "God of the New World", at the end of episode/chapter 1 in the anime/manga. For me that's the most memorable quote from Death Note, though I could not forget the one Aleczandxr comes up with either. I just prefer this one because it definitely holds water.
@@I_am_a_cat_ Oh i myself to hate you and live action anime shows the equal amount. I think both are great and have a good place in this world :) Have a great day.
I mean, "boo netflix" and all, but even their completely bonkers ending and plot changes were more exciting than yet another adaptation of one of the shittiest endings I've ever read.
Has anyone noticed that at the start of the anime, Lights eyes were a golden brown and as the story progressed they turned more red? Eyes are the windows to the souls, so maybe it was to show how his soul was being corrupted.
it was reddish in the very first few seconds he appeared in episode 1, then turns brown after his teacher talks to him. it changed back and forth throughout the series.
I would agree that neither L nor Light are representative of justice. With that said, I think that the character of Chief Yagami is about as close to justice as you can get within the setting. He is trying to get Kira not because of any personal vendetta or for moral reasons. Rather, he is trying to stop Kira because Kira is effectively a vigilante who is trying to take the law into his own hands. Similarly, he is not working with L because he believes that L is more morally righteous than Kira. He works with L because L has agreed to work with the police force, there is nothing more to it. Additionally, despite taking the deal for the eyes and having the death note in his possession he never kills anyone with it which I think is telling to his character. That's my opinion anyway. It's been a while since I've seen the show so if I have happened to get everything wrong, then my b
*With that said, I think that the character of Chief Yagami is about as close to justice as you can get within the setting.* I totally agree. And he dies, which is pretty indicative symbolically, haha.
A fair point, but is it not Chief Yagami's death that proves to be the mistake that kills Kira? Matsuda wouldn't have shot Light if Light wasn't the cause of Chief Yagami's death. I suppose you could say that it was that Kira would kill his own father that pushed Matsuda over the line, but I think what this would miss is that it is Chief Yagami's upstanding character that spoke to Matsuda and that this is why he respected him. It is for his respect to the police chief that Matsuda stopped Kira.
I don't know for sure that it was THE mistake. I think that his main mistake was getting caught due to complacency/underestimation of Near. But it was definitely a pretty poetic contributing factor to his actual death, so yeah.
This concept also appears as a quote by Donflamingo in One Piece's Great War arc > Pirates are evil? The Marines are righteous? These terms have always changed throughout the course of history! Kids who have never seen peace and kids who have never seen war have different values! Those who stand at the top determine what's wrong and what's right! This very place is neutral ground! Justice will prevail, you say? But of course it will! Whoever wins this war becomes justice!
I dont want to butt in but one of my favorite shonen animes from Jump is Rurouni Kenshin. In this show, it shows that Kenshin believes that just because you win a conflict doesnt make you right. We all fight for what we believe in, and thats the most we can do. Truly great stuff The show does deal with morality as well
That quote at 7:26 might have actually been said by Ryuk. I dunno. Probably. Let me know if you know for sure, I couldn't find any solid proof on who actually said it and I didn't rewatch the show before making this. EDIT: It WAS Ryuk.
Holy shit, through watching your video I suddenly understood a confusing scene near the end. When Light has fled from the warehouse and the police were about to chase him, Near suggested them to not go, the police replied "I'm not gonna follow your orders" to which Near replied "ok, I'll leave it up to you". So basically Near was like "I've won so I'm done here." As the person who ultimately solved the case, Near didn't feel accomplished for maintaining justice but instead he was satisfied by the result that he had defeated Kira in the 1v1 matchup. If it was really about justice you obviously wouldn't let the villain just flee like that. In the end Near had won, and therefore he was right and Light was evil, and the police was a miniature of the world's reaction to Light following his defeat - to catch him, and thus maintain justice. The police had a great sense of justice, but Near did not, because the so called "justice" was only born through Near's actions. Near, like L, was like a "god" figure, he created the definition of justice for all the mortals by defeating Kira. So when the police could finally act based on what they believe is right, they no longer took orders from Near. EDIT: A like from OP! Thanks :D I really love discussing Death Note
"Justice will trumph, you say? Of course it will! Because the winners will become justice!" ~ Donquixote Doflamingo Oda sure watches the right stuff... as always ;)
Search your soul and you will see that justice is a causal reality, it causes ultimate victors and losers when the absolute balance is carried out by the One God.
I do think that Death Note's characters are trying to achieve true justice, but in their own flawed ways. On one side, you have the police who try to uphold justice through fair trial. But fair trial comes with a cost - rights of the accused and collecting evidence can lead to the suspect's escape. Thus lack in justice. But in Kira's case, he offers a fake sense of certainty. Killing what he perceives as guilty with the ultimate punishment - Death. Without fair trial and knowing the circumstance behind the crime, he nevertheless provided more restrictions for a common man to commit a crime. Justice itself is not flawed. The justice system is. How much punishment should a bad act receive? I personally think that there should be a standard to that. But then again, one cannot take away the rights of the accused, which makes it difficult to achieve justice.
maattthhhh The reason why there is right for the accused is that he or she might be innocent. This is why there must be a burden of proof beyond reasonable doubt. As one proverb said "It is better to let 10 guilty leave than to punish one innocent."
Radwimps 困 You conveniently forgot that Kira killed all the FBI agents through Rey Penbar(?) who were just doing their job. Just for his "justice" he ruined a dozen families. He also killed Rey's fiance simply because she was investigating her fiance's death and was being a hindrance to him. Not to mention he tried to kill the detective L (fake but he didn't know at that time) just because he was against Kira. Light fans conveniently forget that criminals aren't the only people he killed. Many innocent lives suffered as well due to his "justice".
Radwimps 困 until an innocent is framed with a crime, and the capricious God of the new world decides to kill the innocent anyway. You do know we can stop crime even now, without the death note? It wouldn't even be difficult: we just create a tyrannical world government that executes citizens for any crimes, as well as opposing the Supreme will of the benevolent government. You can be sure crime and war would disappear, but we would all live in silent, fearful paranoia and obedience. Sacrificing freedom for security is always a terrible idea
Light does not in fact know they're guilty, he knows they were found guilty but this is exactly why the death penalty is so contentious. If you jail a wrongly convicted man, you can release them, if you kill a wrongly convicted man you cannot give him his life back. Odds are he has killed innocent people who were found guilty of crimes they didn't commit. Courts are not perfect.
“Justice itself is not flawed” I disagree. Justice does not exist in nature; things simply are. There is no such thing as morality in the same way that there is no such thing as time. The concept of “justice” is entirely man-made and thus inherently flawed, as every person has different values and perspectives, so there can be no one objective definition of “justice” as a law of nature. I know this is straight off of r/im14andthisisdeep lmao but it’s more or less the point Death Note makes. Justice isn’t objective - as a society we have to work together to decide what we think is right. No one person can be in total control.
This reminds me of something we have been discussing in law school: a two prong test asking 1) what the individual believes and 2) whether society is willing to accept that belief as reasonable. That seems like a pretty good working definition of justice. The main flaw is that the individual's belief is literally labeled "subjective" while society acceptance is labeled "objective." How can a judge objectively determine what society wants? Democratic lawmaking is one way, but as we know, it isn't perfect. And common law isn't based on democratic lawmaking anyway, it's based on what other judges have done in the past. That's why, especially in certain areas, legal decisions seems totally wrong half the time-- because whatever the judge decides conflicts with the reader's beliefs about justice, and whatever logic the judge used to conclude that society agrees with him sounds sketchy as hell, because there is no clear way of determining what society believes. All notions of law and fairness are cloaked in the illusion that there is some knowable consensus about what is right and what is wrong. When you look at things that way, it makes sense that the legal system is adversarial like the main characters in Death Note: legal battles really ARE nothing more than two intelligent people fighting to win, regardless of what they really believe. The only goal is to come out on top.
"It's not justice that wins. The one who wins is justice." This was the quote rephrased (I felt like this quote is clearer to me than the one from the anime) This one is from the Death Note Japanese drama
Agreed on every damn point. Exactly my thoughts on justice in Death Note. There is no justice, only people hiding behind justice as a cover for their own actions. "What may have actually started out as a real ideology devolved into a fight of pride, with both sides wanting to win". Perfectly summarizes Death Note. You have my like.
In my opinion Light may have had something always wrong with him. Maybe The death note didn't corrupt him but it actually showed his true self, he just needed "something" some power to let it all out. If light was a politician he would be a corrupt politician, if he was a cop he would be a corrupt cop and so on.. That's just my take on it, who knows maybe i'm wrong. Maybe Light was just a normal person that was completely corrupted by the Death Note.
I agree. If the Death Note "corrupted" Light then there's no reason to feel invested in the protagonist at all. At that point we're just watching some possessed puppet with no agency.
I think it's a mix of the two. I don't think he was purely corrupted and I don't think that he was not affected at all by it. He obviously had this potential for darkness within him but there is a serious contrast in his internal machinations from the beginning and the end. A very obvious and telling one, to me at least. The DN was an enabler, but the nature of enabling is not inherently neutral and non-influential.
Aleczandxr I take Obota's word that Light was mostly corrupted by the DN due to him giving the power over others, if he would have never had it ,he would have been one of the greatest detectives in this world along with L. He might have had some dark desires but ultimately, he was corrupted by this notebook,which is a tragedy in itself, seeing the mastermind of all these deaths being nothing but a pawn of a Shinigami for the Lulz of said shinigami
For the most part I agree with you, but I think his input (method of power) would really affect his output (result of Light's mental state; for example Death Note provides an easier way to reduce criminals, whereas holding the power of a policeman doesn't grant you that ability directly)
I feel like Light always had the potential to be what he became, but I feel like him fulfilling that potential is not guaranteed in every scenario. More than anything, I think the Death Note provided Light with an opportunity. That side of Light was always there but without the opportunity to explore it, he probably wouldn't. The period where he gave up the Death Note kind of exemplifies that.
Yeeeees yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes ye yes yes yes yes, finally a video on Death Note I am so happy I remember asking for this before but you told me you don't have anything interesting to say about it, but now here we are thank you very much I haven't watched it but I know it is the best video ever. I love u
I never thought of it this way or realized it, but 9:14 image reminded me of how Touta Matsuda was like the naive and innocent kid willing to do anything for good. . . and he is the one who murders Light, not just Kira, out of spite and betrayal, not of justice. It's the opposite of what his character has always stood for, or so I thought up to that point. It's a stretch to compare it to Arya becoming bad with Hound becoming good, or Morty going "bad" in the Rick & Morty "Purge" episode.
Yep, I always found that to be interesting about Matsuda as well. I was going to bring it up in the video, but I thought it would've been a bit redundant. Regardless, it's more evidence.
@@ailee_not_here What? No, I’m saying that Matsuda AND Aizawa are BOTH Anti-Kira for the most part and questions things that Kira does. Even if Matsuda might buy into it later on!
What's interesting, is in the Death Note musical (yes it exists, in English, Japanese and Korean), there is a song called "Where is the Justice" (good song btw) where Light is talking about how frustrated he is with the legal system, and how the law is unjust. In the anime, you never once see Light complain about how the law isn't fair to the innocent. He is only motivated by his idea of justice, which is to rid the world of the "bad guys" and come out on top. Just an interesting difference between the adaptation and the show..
Wow, that’s a huge difference, actually. I always interpreted anime Light as extremely adherent to the law, with his ideals of good and evil based strictly around it. I figured it was part of Death Note’s message, that even the law cannot truly define justice. So to have him question the law totally alters his character, and the meaning in general. (Yes, I know killing is against the law, but not always! Not when it’s an act of justice - capital punishment exists, right? I’m guessing that’s how Light justified his actions to himself.)
Light never complained how the law isn't fair to the innocent because since the first episode he knew there were bad people out there that the justice system still hasn't caught. That was one of his initial motives for killing criminals in the first place. He wanted to rid of "evil" once and for all. His killings had logic; kill criminals who did really bad things so that the "evil" in society that have not yet been brought to light (hehe) is stopped for fear of facing the same punishment. Basically his logic is authoritarianism. Eliminate all evil by ruling through fear. But just like any authoritative government, the ruler (in this case Light) will always end up defining evil as immoral actions to evil as any opposition.
"At the end of the day, you're just a crazy serial killer, nothing more... and nothing less." I think Near's words hold a lot of weight after he defeats Light. He was never some God, just a normal dude who had his hands on the most powerful weapon of all time. Anybody could have become like Light. Matsuda also has a very powerful moment, tearfully condemning Light for betraying his father and calling him a fool, despite Soichiro Yagami being one of the most righteous characters in the entire series.
Justice doesn't exist in Death Note, because it doesn't exist in the real world. Power is justice, because it defines justice. We love to see the good guys winning because that's what we would want it to be. It's wish fulfillment. That's what makes Death Note so great in my eyes. It's not only great work of fiction, it is a philosophical thought experiment.
Phesheya Bhembe I shall explain. In order for justice to hold any weight, there must be evil. Since evil is nothing more than the "them" in Us vs Them, it should be quite clear. If there is no offender, there is no justice. Without an enemy, you cannot say you are just because there wouldn't be an evil to compare yourself to. You'd simply be what you are, an imperfect human living in an imperfect world, which is much more difficult for humanity as a whole to accept than even death.
Justice is being fair and moral. You don't compare 'evil' to something else to valid that it is 'evil', the same for 'good'. It just is. Although you could questioned the 'weight'.
What I really appreciate about this stance is that it confirms that Light isn't pure evil. Death Note isn't a traditional "do-gooder who can do no wrong vs evil-doer who must be stopped" kind of story. L, by his own admission, isn't a good person, and he's not above breaking laws to get the results he wants. He's fundamentally no different than Light. He was just chosen (even if he chose it himself) to represent the opposite end of the spectrum of Light's ideals. I don't use a grandiose term such as "justice" because all it takes to be seen as just is to come out on top. History is written by the victor, after all. Death Note is a series about two fundamentally different kinds of "Justice", but neither is above critique or is purely wrong. If you side with Kira, then do you want to live in a world where true freedom isn't allowed? In order for freedom to exist, the freedom to do evil must exist as well. But evil should be punished in different ways according to the crime, and Kira can only punish via murder. You're basically throwing out thousands of years of laws and their evolution as a supporter of Kira and reverting back to a draconian way of punishing people who do wrong. You're stripping people of the right to a fair trial and due process and going back to a system of guilty with no chance of proving innocence. People have the capacity to change, too. Why not give them that chance instead of killing them? Not to mention, there's the chance that people who were suspected or even convicted of a crime might very well be innocent. If they die and the evidence proves their innocence, then Kira killed someone who wasn't meant to die. Not to mention, you're hero-worshipping a serial killer, and that's something no one should ever do. If you side with L, then why don't you agree that if violent and malicious people are gone that the world will be a better place? Remember that Kira stopped wars and dropped violent crime rates by 70%. We already punish people for breaking the law, but is the law effective enough when violent criminals can be set free due to lack of evidence, or when the punishment is too light in proportion to the crime? If people died right away after showing no remorse for a violent crime (remember that Light didn't kill people who committed crimes if they did so unwillingly/unknowingly, showed remorse for the actions, and/or had extenuating circumstances), then wouldn't that be a deterrent to make the world a better place? If murder is so wrong, then why do soldiers kill each other and police officers walk around with guns? They have the power to kill at their hands, and they don't always kill the right people, yet we still have them around. The death penalty is often used for the most heinous crimes, so what makes Kira any different? That's the dilemma of Death Note. I resent the notion that Light is purely evil or purely a villain because of the results he got and how effective he was at getting them. I mean, sure, he wasn't a pleasant guy and he did some messed up things, but L was no different. In the end, Light may have been stopped, but he very well could have won, and if he did, then, as he said, he would have been "Justice."
I would 100% agree with you. They never draw that line of "good" and "evil" in the series and it's one of the reasons why I like it so much. You can root for either or even both of the well written main characters (Near beeing kind of a copycat of L make him much less interesting) without the restriction of morality, while it having such a focus on morality and justice as a theme. I find this fascinating. You could say that there is some kind of justice in the end when Light get's killed. But at the same time you could say that it is all very cruel and pointless. Ryuk setting all of this into motion out of boredom and he beeing the one killing Light in the end and with that taking away any influence of the humans in kiras fate is basically taking away the aspect of justice because his death is prepredestined and by that meaningless.. I really liked that aspect. Especially because of the not even subtile forshadowing in the first episode when he forecasting that he will be the one killing him, no matter what happens until then. Making this absolutly clear from the very beginning made it even more enjoyable for me.
*They never draw that line of "good" and "evil" in the series and it's one of the reasons why I like it so much.* The fact that that line is never really drawn (IMO anyway) is one of the single biggest contributing elements to the show's success for me.
When the perpetrator goes out crying and begging for his life, can it really be called "justice"? Yes he was responsible for millions of deaths and was forcing his will upon the entire world, but at the end of the day your watching a human being die in a very frightening and cruel way. And this is what upsets me when people say they cheered when Light died or "he got what he deserved" (the latter of which sounds eerily Kira-like) because instead of asking themselves what real justice and morality is, they just make it about "the bad guy dying".
+Rynnec Zuhac I agree. And That is the reason why the way they portrayed it is so great. People can, if they like, think that way. But at the same time you can say the very opposit and point out that they are doing basically the same thing damning Light and the only real critique they have is of the person (maybe because they prefered L and are up to revenge ;) ) not the method or his rational. In the end there is no objective morality. You can't even say there is a justice of the majority because of how the people in the show themselfs are divided. And the only gods there are (as far as we know) are the Shinigamis, which don't care for the concept of justice.
The justice quote you said in the video reminds me of what Doflamingo said during the Marineford war: 'Whoever wins this war becomes justice!' Justice is decided by the winner
Light: "Justice is determined by the winner." L: "The loser is evil? Looks like you're the evil one after all then!" Near: "The one who'll be the judge, is my stand!"
I really like your videos. You're able to go into the philosophies behind different characters and shows without being pretentious. Keep up the good work.
In the epilogue (crime rate increased), Matsuda even admits whether or not if shooting Light was right. He questions the fact that maybe they were wrong, that maybe Kira killing off people and letting him do whatever he wanted may have been a better choice. ~
To be honest, I always had the idea that Death Note is a story about hubris and the rise and fall of a high status being. If you note all of the Angel and God symbolism in the series, Light's character at the very least has much to do with Christianity, which leads me to believe that the character is based, both in story and characterization, on the Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar. Initially, I was tempted to say that he was based off the story of the fallen angel Lucifer as many Christians and people in the world, or at least America, interpret the story. But, considering Light's fall was at the hands of the Japanese Task Force and not a higher God (even though Ryuk is the one who ended Light's life but I digress), suggests that Light's story is far more about the origin of the Lucifer story and the man who it referred to rather than the character itself. Light starts off small, or small for the son of a Japanese Police Officer anyway, as just a high school student who's bored with his life. He comes across the Death Note and, initially, he sees the whole thing as a sick joke but the moment he uses it and sees that it works, he gains great ambitions, even saying as early as the first or second episode that he will be the god of this world (or at least, he says that in the English dub, Japanese and Manga I'm not certain). From the very beginning, he gains ambitions of being a god and an omnipotent ruler and dealer of justice and smite just by being presented with a means of doing so. Then he gains an adversary and, by the half-way point of the show, he wins, he kills his greatest enemy and, for a while, he enjoys his time as the ruler of Japan at the very least. Ruler being metaphorical in this case, as he never actually assumes a position of political power. But then he is introduced to Near and Melo and they defeat him, causing his fall from grace as it were and going from a supposed God-challenger to a man on his deathbed within the span of a single episode. Sure, he defeated L but he lost in the end. It shows that, no matter what, victories are always short term. Everything that rises must eventually fall. Just because you're the best now doesn't mean you always will be. Of course, I'm waxing intellectual right now but I'm willing to bet everything I've said is far more obvious than anything in your video so take it however you like.
I apologize for such a short response for such a long comment, but I agree with a great deal with this. I think that in the end, one of the take home points is that this is all cyclical. No reigns ever last on a grand, global scale. As you put it so well: "victories are always short term."
It's worth noting the manga DOES have a commentary on justice in the ending. It was a great excerpt that I wish the anime had included; basically, Light argues that what he's doing is ensuring the most happiness overall and what is justified. Near refutes him...by not playing to his rules, giving perhaps the most honest speech of the series. An important quote from that: "If God himself came down to earth and told us definitively what was right, and what was wrong...I'd look at it myself and see if I agree." What is right and wrong will be argued and may change over history. Modern atrocities like slavery were considered benevolent improvements to what was before - judging everything by the same one standard doesn't grant us a fair understanding of anything. It's possible that one future generation will look back on Light as overwhelmingly right. ...That said? I believe Light is still totally wrong. Once the death note gets to him, he is corrupted beyond repair. He is a sociopath and a fraud, an egotist who doesn't consider the possibility he may be wrong. He may be a prodigy, but no prodigy is beyond the wisdom of all. Such a person could NEVER make a good world. As Near said, he's just another crazy serial killer.
Thanks for mentioning this. I don't think it changes much from a thematic aspect but it does add some gravitas to an already pretty powerful conclusion to the story.
@@Aleczandxr And he was shot by someone who everyone thought of as a joke. Yet he had more bravery than someone who wrote names of people he wished to die from the safety of his desk. This is also why news reports of death notes in schools should probably be taken more seriously than many weebs do.
"LMAO I had my caretaker duplicate an entire notebook in a single night and replaced it without KIRA'S NUMBA WUN FAN noticing.... except he totally did but then he didn't check it properly because of reasons"
And the Near plothole that he was dumb enough to talk about Kira on TV and trust a gym locker with the most powerful mass murder weapon ever conceived.
Sometimes I feel very pessimistic about life and the short/long term future. It all feels so dull and "rotten." Then you upload a video and it transports me to a new world of nostalgia. Although I have seen the anime or played the game you talk about countless times you offer a fresh new look into them. Thank you for constantly producing such great work. I know I, as well as others, really appreciate it.
The entire time I was watching, i remembered the quote "There is neither good or bad, but thinking makes it so" - Hamlet. I think it fits well with this video.
I agree with what you said, not just for death note, but in reality. I believe right and wrong to be alot more subjective than people make it out to be, though not completely. I think everyone has a reason for doing what they do and they justify those things by either ignoring or straightfully declining the conciquences of their actions, all of us, to verying degrees, do this, I believe.
Damn Alec I wish I had some friends to talk about stuff with like you, all your videos open me up to different idea and help me perceive anime through a different lense. Thanks man you're doing a fantastic job and I'll be joining your patreon keep it up man!
I use the google translation, and I think that the human-made concept of justice, ironically, can not be absolute justice as long as we are human beings. Even if a hero defeats an evil character, from the viewpoint of the evil character, the hero will be recognized as an enemy to attack. The act of harming the other for their own purposes can not be justice for any purpose. Even a hero. There is no justice in human conflict, and justice is a concept that is fundamentally based on human sensibility, so there may be other justices from the sensitivities of anyone else. I think that it is the work of Death note that expressed it objectively.
I'm just glad there's finally some analytical videos on DeathNote, there's not many of them out there sadly, and seeing as DeathNotes a favorite I was really happy with this video. Like always your videos win me over, and always make me think while entertaining me. Good stuff
Death Note has always been a beautiful story to me. Just how when you really think about it, L always knew Light was Kira and Light always knew that L knew that. It was just a beautifully catastrophic friendship with deadly consequences.
Great video man. I'm looking into a lot of anime stuff as of recent - Death Note included - and four minutes into the video and you're blowing my mind.
You seriously have the best analysis on anime on youtube. I loved your Hunter X Hunter and Berserk videos, this one was great too. Looking forward to more.
L believes Justice is rational justice, meaning his actions are based off of, 'if I am correct, and you are wrong, then I am just, then I am justice.' Light believes in moral justice, ' if you do wrong for the wrong reason, you are unjust, then i will punish you therefore I am just, and then I am justice'.
I easily agree with your take on it, I always like to listen to yours and other people's discussion bids like this when it comes to anime and fiction media in general to get different pov to have my certain opinion& facts from different sides to get the full picture especially as a writer. I think your take actually makes a lot of sense and I can't get to much into detail why cause I'm busy. But I loved your take on it, death note really changed my view of anime early on as like one of my first to start and I could not stop watching and opened my mind to different things about anime, anime to watch and my view on writing and philosophy in general.
I think you're completely right. It's quite telling that L was willing to use the death note itself in order to convict Light, which goes against his sense of 'justice'. In the end, both men just wanted to beat eachother, and their lack of justice is what made the battle so intriguing. Great video
*It's quite telling that L was willing to use the death note itself in order to convict Light, which goes against his sense of 'justice'* Definitely. Either it was a slowly devolution into petty pride or L never cared about justice in the first place, but either way it's obvious that the guy wasn't concerned with doing what was "right" at all.
Great video. Had these thoughts ever since I finished the series some time ago, glad that there are people who share this interpretation, or a similar one at the very least.
Light is one of my favorite villain types. Modern amateur writers go for this "oh he has good intentions" type of sympathetic villains with tragic backstories but whose plans and execution all suck. Their backstory comes off as an excuse for their idiocy and incompetence. Light's true intentions are purely egotistical and selfish but his results speak for themselves. Defeating him means destroying much of the positive changes of the world. His intentions doesn't matter.
Aleczandxr Since the HxH Manga has returned, can we please see you do a video on HxH videos sometime soon? This arc could end up being something mind blowing. Togashi might as well make it end soon, and seeing the setup so far, you can sense this will probably beat Chimera Arc, and its a huge ask considering how its such an amazing arc, but this one can. You could just wait a bit longer and do it with much more content.
I like to think that Kira was truly born after Light killed his second victim. It confirmed with absolute certainty that the Death Note has the power to kill and he was responsible for it. I think his God complex was born out a desperate justification for what he had done. When he truly became a sociopath.
i think light rather justified his doing to himself than admitting that he did wrong, in the manga it seemed like he needed to convince HIMSELF that he's justice, and i agree with you. he almost vomited after realising what he'd done, but keeps going on, because he maybe couldnt cope with it, so he convinced himself it was just, and that he should continue to cleanse the world from evil, which is quite ironic, considering that he became a serial killer who killed hundreds of thousands of people for what he thought of as justice.
Ah, I still remember that one shot... I still laugh about how L picked Mello and Near not because they were good... but because they looked nasty, lmfao.
I read the exact same article in Quora before seeing this video ...Are you the author of that article too?? I really loved your interpretion ...And it is the BEST Understanding on Death Note.....Keep it up man !!!!
Could I please subtitle this for PT-BR? I really enjoy your work but I can't even show to my brother or friends because most of them would not understand the video... If I can't,it's Okay! Just keep up with your great work!
This conversation was in the manga, not sure if they included it in the anime. But some time after they captured Light (it was a year if I remember correctly) Matsuda and some other task force member met. Matsuda questioned if it's good Kira was captured because during his reign there was barely any crime and within that year everything went back to "normal". The other guy tells him, that he doesn't know if it's good that they caught him, but he knows one thing - if they didn't kill Light he would kill them (since Kira killed people who opposed his order) so he's just happy to be alive. Basically the winning side themselves isn't sure what they did was really justice they are just happy they won.
whether or not you believe Kira was justified in killing criminals, the central message of death note can be boiled down to the fact that that too much power in the hands of one person is always corrupting. When Light began taking extreme measures to secure his position of power, he lost the moral high ground (if he ever had it in the first place!) Although justice is a major theme in the series, I believe L understood that it's an entirely subjective concept and was simply trying to take down Kira because his power made him dangerous.
Another great video as always. Thank you for making it! You also brought up a very interesting point, the quote about Light and justice. It reminded me of a classical idiom nearly all Mandarin speakers know, especially when learning about history: 勝者為王，敗者為寇。(成王敗寇) It means: Legitimacy belongs to the victor, the vanquished become bandits/invaders. In a way, justice had never been part of history or society, eternally abstract and ambiguous. I don’t know if there is such an idiom in Japanese, but some mentalities can be a rather similar. (From my own prospective) this has bred certain objectivity, sometimes apathy in East Asian society, especially when compared to the Americas. People can find it difficult/unnecessary to choose sides. You don’t want to be the first, nor the last. The majority of people find it most comfortable to follow other examples made before them. So, what I found most intriguing about Death Note were the different reactions people made while being forced or coerced into taking a side, and all the degrees in between. I guess it comes down to, how idealistic a person is, and that’s what makes the world so engaging. Btw, I would argue that the most just and moral character in Death Note was Soichiro Yagami, by today’s standards of justice. (Hence, Wedy calls him a stick in the mud.)
Thank you for sharing that! Admittedly, Mandarin idioms are not things that I tend to absorb myself with (lol), so it's very interesting when people bring up things that I would otherwise not have known. That's fascinating, and it's pretty much synonymous with what Death Note seems to be saying. I also totally agree that Soichiro is the closest thing to justice - and he's unceremoniously killed, which is pretty indicative of the series' take on justice, haha.
This is also what doflamingo logic of justice. Well for me, i haven't found what justice really means, to me its only a punishment to the one who deserves. Justify base on society or for your own good. Maybe thats why libra has a blindfold in her figures. I guess everything isn't entirely true, even God forsaken us before until his son saved us from him, with faith and love. I know its biblical, but could you find justice base on that?. Its faith and hope all alone. I dont know.
I would go as for as to say that justice doesn't exist in real life at all, unless you accept moral principles like "we should maximise the well being of conscious creatures" as axioms which can't be proved, at least from an atheistic point of view. And in the real world, I would say that "free will" doesn't exist in any meaningful way. Sure we make choices, but if we are to accept the empirical fact that our brains are made out of atoms obeying the laws of physics, in what way can our choices be labelled as "free" in any meaningful way? Whether the physical matter comprising our brain behaves deterministically or as a result of randomness ( the behaviour of small particles in particular circumstances can be modelled probabilistically), where does free will come from? And supposing we did have a soul, what would control decision making?How can a soul work outside the bounds of cause and effect and also of randomness? Would someone be unlucky to be given the soul of a murderer? When we accept that free will doesn't exist in any meaningful way, punishing criminals makes no sense from the point of view of righteous retribution, but instead from the point of view of wanting to protect society and rehabilitate criminals. If I did believe in free will though, I would probably agree with Light for the most part on morality.
Make a choice between two options, A or B: A: Tell me the first item you see on your left. B: Tell me the color of the second item you see on your right. After you do so, please understand that viewing the universe as having no free will "because we're made of atoms being controlled by physics" is a load of hogwash. You can CHOOSE to do nothing until you starve. You can also choose to make yourself meals, live, and work. Even the Bible, with some people hold up as "proof" that there's no free will, has a large number of times where Believers are told to choose, willingly, not obey blindly. There is Justice in the world, because people create and enforce objective standards of morality. We are not just dust on stellar winds, we are PEOPLE, and we will make our mark on this universe, even if it is fleeting by galactic standards.
Herman Cillo, I didn't deny the existence of choice. Of course we make choices, I am merely arguing that from a scientific point of view our choices are determined by particles obeying the laws of physics. You haven't written an argument to address that point. Part of the problem here comes down to how you want to define free will. Some people will label our ability to make choices as "free will", even if they think that our choices are pre-determined. People create and enforce their own standards of morality, but I don't see how they are in any way objective, unless you believe in a religion. How do you objectively decide what is "right" or "wrong" without first making assumptions, such as it is right to maximise human well being?
I believe in God, and I also believe in free will, because of the sheer number of times in the Bible that making a choice, and free will are part of the lessons. God defines morality in The Bible, for me. And I'd argue that the morality taught in the New Testament is well beyond pretty damn good. Also, using a religious standard for secular morals is acceptable too. Because, if you look at what religious morals are, they are some of the best morals we have, despite some (major) mistakes.
I'm glad you made a video of this. Death Note is one of my favorites, mostly because of the philosophy of right and wrong, and the plot mechanism of a note book that kills.
Aleczandxr, thanks for this really good review and interpretation. Your videos are great, and the subjects are deeps in meaning, philosophically speaking. The concept of Justice is an interesting one, and you have done a very good explanation through the lens of Death Note.
Man full metal alchemist brotherhood, hunter x hunter, gurren lagann and now death note? If you do a video on haikyuu then you might be my favorite youtuber.
"Of course, everything Light says must be taken with a truckload of salt" lol
Truer words never spoken.
With bag of potato chips.*
EXCUSE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well Light had a god complex...
NorthernRedStar Top kek
"And I'll build a world of only kind-hearted people I accept."
"Then you'll be the only bastard left..."
"... What are you talking about, Ryuuk?"
It's right before Light proclaims himself "God of the New World", at the end of episode/chapter 1 in the anime/manga. For me that's the most memorable quote from Death Note, though I could not forget the one Aleczandxr comes up with either. I just prefer this one because it definitely holds water.
Wasn't that the lesson on an episode of Doctor Who?
the Insane Artist yeah it was actually and in a recent one too I think it was in season 10 but i could be wrong
TheVsagent no he wouldn't. As long they're kind and not dishonest then there'd be a small minority of people left alive.
There is no Justice when Netflix is allowed to make anime adaptations
PsychoPavilion
#lolz
I hate live action anime shows almost as much as I hate myself
@@I_am_a_cat_ Same, and that's saying a lot.
@@I_am_a_cat_ Oh i myself to hate you and live action anime shows the equal amount. I think both are great and have a good place in this world :) Have a great day.
I mean, "boo netflix" and all, but even their completely bonkers ending and plot changes were more exciting than yet another adaptation of one of the shittiest endings I've ever read.
Has anyone noticed that at the start of the anime, Lights eyes were a golden brown and as the story progressed they turned more red? Eyes are the windows to the souls, so maybe it was to show how his soul was being corrupted.
Allu Kat yeah.
it was reddish in the very first few seconds he appeared in episode 1, then turns brown after his teacher talks to him. it changed back and forth throughout the series.
xyzabcwater it changes to show his internal monologue
Its hinted he would become a Shinigami.
Also when he gave up the notebook his eyes were brown-er again
I would agree that neither L nor Light are representative of justice. With that said, I think that the character of Chief Yagami is about as close to justice as you can get within the setting. He is trying to get Kira not because of any personal vendetta or for moral reasons. Rather, he is trying to stop Kira because Kira is effectively a vigilante who is trying to take the law into his own hands.
Similarly, he is not working with L because he believes that L is more morally righteous than Kira. He works with L because L has agreed to work with the police force, there is nothing more to it.
Additionally, despite taking the deal for the eyes and having the death note in his possession he never kills anyone with it which I think is telling to his character.
That's my opinion anyway. It's been a while since I've seen the show so if I have happened to get everything wrong, then my b
*With that said, I think that the character of Chief Yagami is about as close to justice as you can get within the setting.*
I totally agree. And he dies, which is pretty indicative symbolically, haha.
A fair point, but is it not Chief Yagami's death that proves to be the mistake that kills Kira?
Matsuda wouldn't have shot Light if Light wasn't the cause of Chief Yagami's death. I suppose you could say that it was that Kira would kill his own father that pushed Matsuda over the line, but I think what this would miss is that it is Chief Yagami's upstanding character that spoke to Matsuda and that this is why he respected him. It is for his respect to the police chief that Matsuda stopped Kira.
I don't know for sure that it was THE mistake. I think that his main mistake was getting caught due to complacency/underestimation of Near. But it was definitely a pretty poetic contributing factor to his actual death, so yeah.
Just AGuy Totally agee on what you said about Chief Yagami
agree*
Death note's moral complexity and subject matter is pretty surprising considering it started out as a manga in shonen jump
Sander Tegneby the Duo behind the manga are masterminds. read Bakuman by them as well. it's amazing
Roy Senpai's Fan Club wait you're telling me the death note author also made bakuman?
No wonder i fell in love with it.
cancer comment
jillnz45 it was pretty awesome till war arc
burn
This concept also appears as a quote by Donflamingo in One Piece's Great War arc
> Pirates are evil? The Marines are righteous? These terms have always changed throughout the course of history! Kids who have never seen peace and kids who have never seen war have different values! Those who stand at the top determine what's wrong and what's right! This very place is neutral ground! Justice will prevail, you say? But of course it will! Whoever wins this war becomes justice!
· 0xFFF1 one piece
arsam kiani lol a narutard would bring that up out of no where
arsam kiani What does that have to do with the discussion?
One piece?
I dont want to butt in but one of my favorite shonen animes from Jump is Rurouni Kenshin. In this show, it shows that Kenshin believes that just because you win a conflict doesnt make you right. We all fight for what we believe in, and thats the most we can do. Truly great stuff
The show does deal with morality as well
That quote at 7:26 might have actually been said by Ryuk. I dunno. Probably. Let me know if you know for sure, I couldn't find any solid proof on who actually said it and I didn't rewatch the show before making this.
EDIT: It WAS Ryuk.
Aleczandxr it was by L
Aleczandxr I looked into it, it was apparently said by L, but the quote itself was said in Chapter Finis, i think.
It was said by Ryuk early in the series, and right after Light dies,in the manga by no one
I thought it was L.
+ Iceday Face palm wizard I have no idea what that means.
Holy shit, through watching your video I suddenly understood a confusing scene near the end. When Light has fled from the warehouse and the police were about to chase him, Near suggested them to not go, the police replied "I'm not gonna follow your orders" to which Near replied "ok, I'll leave it up to you".
So basically Near was like "I've won so I'm done here." As the person who ultimately solved the case, Near didn't feel accomplished for maintaining justice but instead he was satisfied by the result that he had defeated Kira in the 1v1 matchup. If it was really about justice you obviously wouldn't let the villain just flee like that. In the end Near had won, and therefore he was right and Light was evil, and the police was a miniature of the world's reaction to Light following his defeat - to catch him, and thus maintain justice.
The police had a great sense of justice, but Near did not, because the so called "justice" was only born through Near's actions. Near, like L, was like a "god" figure, he created the definition of justice for all the mortals by defeating Kira. So when the police could finally act based on what they believe is right, they no longer took orders from Near.
EDIT: A like from OP! Thanks :D I really love discussing Death Note
I DIDNT KNOW I WANTED THIS VIDEO UNTIL I SAW IT
me walking into a guitar store
Micah Leach
#lolz
Tin Man
#lolz
BEST Interperation....!!!!
gEnIUS rEALIZATION
"Justice will trumph, you say? Of course it will! Because the winners will become justice!"
~ Donquixote Doflamingo
Oda sure watches the right stuff... as always ;)
Piter Jurkowicz I don't really think that came from death note
Well... I meant that those two have simillar concept of justice
Piter Jurkowicz oh okay
Fufufufufu
Search your soul and you will see that justice is a causal reality, it causes ultimate victors and losers when the absolute balance is carried out by the One God.
I do think that Death Note's characters are trying to achieve true justice, but in their own flawed ways. On one side, you have the police who try to uphold justice through fair trial. But fair trial comes with a cost - rights of the accused and collecting evidence can lead to the suspect's escape. Thus lack in justice.
But in Kira's case, he offers a fake sense of certainty. Killing what he perceives as guilty with the ultimate punishment - Death. Without fair trial and knowing the circumstance behind the crime, he nevertheless provided more restrictions for a common man to commit a crime.
Justice itself is not flawed. The justice system is. How much punishment should a bad act receive? I personally think that there should be a standard to that. But then again, one cannot take away the rights of the accused, which makes it difficult to achieve justice.
maattthhhh The reason why there is right for the accused is that he or she might be innocent. This is why there must be a burden of proof beyond reasonable doubt. As one proverb said "It is better to let 10 guilty leave than to punish one innocent."
Radwimps 困 You conveniently forgot that Kira killed all the FBI agents through Rey Penbar(?) who were just doing their job. Just for his "justice" he ruined a dozen families. He also killed Rey's fiance simply because she was investigating her fiance's death and was being a hindrance to him. Not to mention he tried to kill the detective L (fake but he didn't know at that time) just because he was against Kira.
Light fans conveniently forget that criminals aren't the only people he killed. Many innocent lives suffered as well due to his "justice".
Radwimps 困 until an innocent is framed with a crime, and the capricious God of the new world decides to kill the innocent anyway. You do know we can stop crime even now, without the death note? It wouldn't even be difficult: we just create a tyrannical world government that executes citizens for any crimes, as well as opposing the Supreme will of the benevolent government. You can be sure crime and war would disappear, but we would all live in silent, fearful paranoia and obedience. Sacrificing freedom for security is always a terrible idea
Light does not in fact know they're guilty, he knows they were found guilty but this is exactly why the death penalty is so contentious. If you jail a wrongly convicted man, you can release them, if you kill a wrongly convicted man you cannot give him his life back. Odds are he has killed innocent people who were found guilty of crimes they didn't commit. Courts are not perfect.
“Justice itself is not flawed” I disagree. Justice does not exist in nature; things simply are. There is no such thing as morality in the same way that there is no such thing as time. The concept of “justice” is entirely man-made and thus inherently flawed, as every person has different values and perspectives, so there can be no one objective definition of “justice” as a law of nature.
I know this is straight off of r/im14andthisisdeep lmao but it’s more or less the point Death Note makes. Justice isn’t objective - as a society we have to work together to decide what we think is right. No one person can be in total control.
This reminds me of something we have been discussing in law school: a two prong test asking 1) what the individual believes and 2) whether society is willing to accept that belief as reasonable. That seems like a pretty good working definition of justice. The main flaw is that the individual's belief is literally labeled "subjective" while society acceptance is labeled "objective." How can a judge objectively determine what society wants? Democratic lawmaking is one way, but as we know, it isn't perfect. And common law isn't based on democratic lawmaking anyway, it's based on what other judges have done in the past. That's why, especially in certain areas, legal decisions seems totally wrong half the time-- because whatever the judge decides conflicts with the reader's beliefs about justice, and whatever logic the judge used to conclude that society agrees with him sounds sketchy as hell, because there is no clear way of determining what society believes. All notions of law and fairness are cloaked in the illusion that there is some knowable consensus about what is right and what is wrong. When you look at things that way, it makes sense that the legal system is adversarial like the main characters in Death Note: legal battles really ARE nothing more than two intelligent people fighting to win, regardless of what they really believe. The only goal is to come out on top.
Damn I’ve never really looked at it that way
"It's not justice that wins. The one who wins is justice."
This was the quote rephrased (I felt like this quote is clearer to me than the one from the anime)
This one is from the Death Note Japanese drama
Agreed on every damn point. Exactly my thoughts on justice in Death Note. There is no justice, only people hiding behind justice as a cover for their own actions. "What may have actually started out as a real ideology devolved into a fight of pride, with both sides wanting to win". Perfectly summarizes Death Note. You have my like.
Much appreciated, glad you enjoyed.
Proud of you, man.
went through the comments just to find you lel
CritiCold
I Love your profile photo.
In my opinion Light may have had something always wrong with him. Maybe The death note didn't corrupt him but it actually showed his true self, he just needed "something" some power to let it all out. If light was a politician he would be a corrupt politician, if he was a cop he would be a corrupt cop and so on..
That's just my take on it, who knows maybe i'm wrong. Maybe Light was just a normal person that was completely corrupted by the Death Note.
I agree. If the Death Note "corrupted" Light then there's no reason to feel invested in the protagonist at all. At that point we're just watching some possessed puppet with no agency.
I think it's a mix of the two. I don't think he was purely corrupted and I don't think that he was not affected at all by it. He obviously had this potential for darkness within him but there is a serious contrast in his internal machinations from the beginning and the end. A very obvious and telling one, to me at least. The DN was an enabler, but the nature of enabling is not inherently neutral and non-influential.
Aleczandxr I take Obota's word that Light was mostly corrupted by the DN due to him giving the power over others, if he would have never had it ,he would have been one of the greatest detectives in this world along with L. He might have had some dark desires but ultimately, he was corrupted by this notebook,which is a tragedy in itself, seeing the mastermind of all these deaths being nothing but a pawn of a Shinigami for the Lulz of said shinigami
For the most part I agree with you, but I think his input (method of power) would really affect his output (result of Light's mental state; for example Death Note provides an easier way to reduce criminals, whereas holding the power of a policeman doesn't grant you that ability directly)
I feel like Light always had the potential to be what he became, but I feel like him fulfilling that potential is not guaranteed in every scenario. More than anything, I think the Death Note provided Light with an opportunity. That side of Light was always there but without the opportunity to explore it, he probably wouldn't. The period where he gave up the Death Note kind of exemplifies that.
Yeeeees yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes ye yes yes yes yes, finally a video on Death Note I am so happy I remember asking for this before but you told me you don't have anything interesting to say about it, but now here we are thank you very much I haven't watched it but I know it is the best video ever. I love u
Joseph Al ghamdi ^
I luv u 2
Light did go completely insane after L was out of the way though . (i mean he was going nutso before that, but after that holy shit. )
Dude, i was just thinking about this topic yesterday. This video couldn't have been timed better.
I never thought of it this way or realized it, but 9:14 image reminded me of how Touta Matsuda was like the naive and innocent kid willing to do anything for good. . . and he is the one who murders Light, not just Kira, out of spite and betrayal, not of justice. It's the opposite of what his character has always stood for, or so I thought up to that point. It's a stretch to compare it to Arya becoming bad with Hound becoming good, or Morty going "bad" in the Rick & Morty "Purge" episode.
Yep, I always found that to be interesting about Matsuda as well. I was going to bring it up in the video, but I thought it would've been a bit redundant. Regardless, it's more evidence.
Interesting that Matsuda is also the only task force member who ever questions his stance on Kira.
@@turnleftaticeland there was the other dude who did so too with the afro.
@@Gadget-Walkmenyou mean aizawa? not really, he's very obviously anti-kira and scolds matsuda when he says that kira might not be evil.
@@ailee_not_here What? No, I’m saying that Matsuda AND Aizawa are BOTH Anti-Kira for the most part and questions things that Kira does. Even if Matsuda might buy into it later on!
What's interesting, is in the Death Note musical (yes it exists, in English, Japanese and Korean), there is a song called "Where is the Justice" (good song btw) where Light is talking about how frustrated he is with the legal system, and how the law is unjust. In the anime, you never once see Light complain about how the law isn't fair to the innocent. He is only motivated by his idea of justice, which is to rid the world of the "bad guys" and come out on top. Just an interesting difference between the adaptation and the show..
L An
Ideas, ideas.
Wow, that’s a huge difference, actually. I always interpreted anime Light as extremely adherent to the law, with his ideals of good and evil based strictly around it. I figured it was part of Death Note’s message, that even the law cannot truly define justice. So to have him question the law totally alters his character, and the meaning in general.
(Yes, I know killing is against the law, but not always! Not when it’s an act of justice - capital punishment exists, right? I’m guessing that’s how Light justified his actions to himself.)
Light never complained how the law isn't fair to the innocent because since the first episode he knew there were bad people out there that the justice system still hasn't caught. That was one of his initial motives for killing criminals in the first place. He wanted to rid of "evil" once and for all. His killings had logic; kill criminals who did really bad things so that the "evil" in society that have not yet been brought to light (hehe) is stopped for fear of facing the same punishment. Basically his logic is authoritarianism. Eliminate all evil by ruling through fear. But just like any authoritative government, the ruler (in this case Light) will always end up defining evil as immoral actions to evil as any opposition.
THERE IS NO JUSTICE, ONLY ME
- DEATH
-- Terry Practchett
"At the end of the day, you're just a crazy serial killer, nothing more... and nothing less."
I think Near's words hold a lot of weight after he defeats Light. He was never some God, just a normal dude who had his hands on the most powerful weapon of all time. Anybody could have become like Light. Matsuda also has a very powerful moment, tearfully condemning Light for betraying his father and calling him a fool, despite Soichiro Yagami being one of the most righteous characters in the entire series.
Justice doesn't exist in Death Note, because it doesn't exist in the real world. Power is justice, because it defines justice.
We love to see the good guys winning because that's what we would want it to be. It's wish fulfillment. That's what makes Death Note so great in my eyes. It's not only great work of fiction, it is a philosophical thought experiment.
War doesn't determine who is right, only who is left.
JPGkilla Power doesn't define justice, the enemy does.
Ninja07Keaton What do you mean?
Phesheya Bhembe I shall explain. In order for justice to hold any weight, there must be evil. Since evil is nothing more than the "them" in Us vs Them, it should be quite clear. If there is no offender, there is no justice. Without an enemy, you cannot say you are just because there wouldn't be an evil to compare yourself to. You'd simply be what you are, an imperfect human living in an imperfect world, which is much more difficult for humanity as a whole to accept than even death.
Justice is being fair and moral. You don't compare 'evil' to something else to valid that it is 'evil', the same for 'good'. It just is. Although you could questioned the 'weight'.
I like how deep your insights are, they really shine some light on this masterpiece of a show (and Manga).
I'm glad to hear it, thanks!
What I really appreciate about this stance is that it confirms that Light isn't pure evil. Death Note isn't a traditional "do-gooder who can do no wrong vs evil-doer who must be stopped" kind of story. L, by his own admission, isn't a good person, and he's not above breaking laws to get the results he wants. He's fundamentally no different than Light. He was just chosen (even if he chose it himself) to represent the opposite end of the spectrum of Light's ideals. I don't use a grandiose term such as "justice" because all it takes to be seen as just is to come out on top. History is written by the victor, after all.
Death Note is a series about two fundamentally different kinds of "Justice", but neither is above critique or is purely wrong.
If you side with Kira, then do you want to live in a world where true freedom isn't allowed? In order for freedom to exist, the freedom to do evil must exist as well. But evil should be punished in different ways according to the crime, and Kira can only punish via murder. You're basically throwing out thousands of years of laws and their evolution as a supporter of Kira and reverting back to a draconian way of punishing people who do wrong. You're stripping people of the right to a fair trial and due process and going back to a system of guilty with no chance of proving innocence. People have the capacity to change, too. Why not give them that chance instead of killing them? Not to mention, there's the chance that people who were suspected or even convicted of a crime might very well be innocent. If they die and the evidence proves their innocence, then Kira killed someone who wasn't meant to die. Not to mention, you're hero-worshipping a serial killer, and that's something no one should ever do.
If you side with L, then why don't you agree that if violent and malicious people are gone that the world will be a better place? Remember that Kira stopped wars and dropped violent crime rates by 70%. We already punish people for breaking the law, but is the law effective enough when violent criminals can be set free due to lack of evidence, or when the punishment is too light in proportion to the crime? If people died right away after showing no remorse for a violent crime (remember that Light didn't kill people who committed crimes if they did so unwillingly/unknowingly, showed remorse for the actions, and/or had extenuating circumstances), then wouldn't that be a deterrent to make the world a better place? If murder is so wrong, then why do soldiers kill each other and police officers walk around with guns? They have the power to kill at their hands, and they don't always kill the right people, yet we still have them around. The death penalty is often used for the most heinous crimes, so what makes Kira any different?
That's the dilemma of Death Note. I resent the notion that Light is purely evil or purely a villain because of the results he got and how effective he was at getting them. I mean, sure, he wasn't a pleasant guy and he did some messed up things, but L was no different. In the end, Light may have been stopped, but he very well could have won, and if he did, then, as he said, he would have been "Justice."
The way he said "Death, is; Equal."
Just sends shivers down my spine...
(Ominously)
-You're all traitors!
-Unfortunetly for you, history will not see it that way.
I would 100% agree with you. They never draw that line of "good" and "evil" in the series and it's one of the reasons why I like it so much.
You can root for either or even both of the well written main characters (Near beeing kind of a copycat of L make him much less interesting) without the restriction of morality, while it having such a focus on morality and justice as a theme. I find this fascinating.
You could say that there is some kind of justice in the end when Light get's killed. But at the same time you could say that it is all very cruel and pointless. Ryuk setting all of this into motion out of boredom and he beeing the one killing Light in the end and with that taking away any influence of the humans in kiras fate is basically taking away the aspect of justice because his death is prepredestined and by that meaningless.. I really liked that aspect.
Especially because of the not even subtile forshadowing in the first episode when he forecasting that he will be the one killing him, no matter what happens until then. Making this absolutly clear from the very beginning made it even more enjoyable for me.
Errtuabyss Well Ryuk did say to Light that he will kill him and I knew then and there he would.
Errtuabyss the whole story of death note was basically ryuk getting entertainment.
*They never draw that line of "good" and "evil" in the series and it's one of the reasons why I like it so much.*
The fact that that line is never really drawn (IMO anyway) is one of the single biggest contributing elements to the show's success for me.
When the perpetrator goes out crying and begging for his life, can it really be called "justice"? Yes he was responsible for millions of deaths and was forcing his will upon the entire world, but at the end of the day your watching a human being die in a very frightening and cruel way. And this is what upsets me when people say they cheered when Light died or "he got what he deserved" (the latter of which sounds eerily Kira-like) because instead of asking themselves what real justice and morality is, they just make it about "the bad guy dying".
+Rynnec Zuhac
I agree. And That is the reason why the way they portrayed it is so great.
People can, if they like, think that way. But at the same time you can say the very opposit and point out that they are doing basically the same thing damning Light and the only real critique they have is of the person (maybe because they prefered L and are up to revenge ;) ) not the method or his rational.
In the end there is no objective morality. You can't even say there is a justice of the majority because of how the people in the show themselfs are divided. And the only gods there are (as far as we know) are the Shinigamis, which don't care for the concept of justice.
The justice quote you said in the video reminds me of what Doflamingo said during the Marineford war: 'Whoever wins this war becomes justice!' Justice is decided by the winner
And it's again said by a killer who cares about very few, and wants to destroy most of what's already there.
Cameron Jenkins I thought the same also, and it's true.
Also, this is why we need to make sure our leaders are objectively Just, and that the unjust have as little power as possible.
Which is why we consider the nazis bad as I bet that they would consider us had we lost and we committed our fair share of war crimes to
Light: "Justice is determined by the winner."
L: "The loser is evil? Looks like you're the evil one after all then!"
Near: "The one who'll be the judge, is my stand!"
I'm already in love with this video and i haven't watched it yet
poopy bitch
^_^
actually Ryuk kills me
Unseen Genius kira doesnt kill L *cough* Rem the shinigami. Trust me, I would know
Hiei the symbol of dharmA amazing...
I really like your videos. You're able to go into the philosophies behind different characters and shows without being pretentious. Keep up the good work.
Thanks, glad you enjoy them.
In the epilogue (crime rate increased), Matsuda even admits whether or not if shooting Light was right. He questions the fact that maybe they were wrong, that maybe Kira killing off people and letting him do whatever he wanted may have been a better choice. ~
Just found your videos. Beautiful. Don't stop.
To be honest, I always had the idea that Death Note is a story about hubris and the rise and fall of a high status being. If you note all of the Angel and God symbolism in the series, Light's character at the very least has much to do with Christianity, which leads me to believe that the character is based, both in story and characterization, on the Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar. Initially, I was tempted to say that he was based off the story of the fallen angel Lucifer as many Christians and people in the world, or at least America, interpret the story. But, considering Light's fall was at the hands of the Japanese Task Force and not a higher God (even though Ryuk is the one who ended Light's life but I digress), suggests that Light's story is far more about the origin of the Lucifer story and the man who it referred to rather than the character itself.
Light starts off small, or small for the son of a Japanese Police Officer anyway, as just a high school student who's bored with his life. He comes across the Death Note and, initially, he sees the whole thing as a sick joke but the moment he uses it and sees that it works, he gains great ambitions, even saying as early as the first or second episode that he will be the god of this world (or at least, he says that in the English dub, Japanese and Manga I'm not certain). From the very beginning, he gains ambitions of being a god and an omnipotent ruler and dealer of justice and smite just by being presented with a means of doing so. Then he gains an adversary and, by the half-way point of the show, he wins, he kills his greatest enemy and, for a while, he enjoys his time as the ruler of Japan at the very least. Ruler being metaphorical in this case, as he never actually assumes a position of political power.
But then he is introduced to Near and Melo and they defeat him, causing his fall from grace as it were and going from a supposed God-challenger to a man on his deathbed within the span of a single episode.
Sure, he defeated L but he lost in the end. It shows that, no matter what, victories are always short term. Everything that rises must eventually fall. Just because you're the best now doesn't mean you always will be.
Of course, I'm waxing intellectual right now but I'm willing to bet everything I've said is far more obvious than anything in your video so take it however you like.
OmegaRunner Completely agree the point of the story is about pride, all the major themes and motivations revolve around it
I apologize for such a short response for such a long comment, but I agree with a great deal with this. I think that in the end, one of the take home points is that this is all cyclical. No reigns ever last on a grand, global scale. As you put it so well: "victories are always short term."
It's worth noting the manga DOES have a commentary on justice in the ending. It was a great excerpt that I wish the anime had included; basically, Light argues that what he's doing is ensuring the most happiness overall and what is justified. Near refutes him...by not playing to his rules, giving perhaps the most honest speech of the series.
An important quote from that: "If God himself came down to earth and told us definitively what was right, and what was wrong...I'd look at it myself and see if I agree."
What is right and wrong will be argued and may change over history. Modern atrocities like slavery were considered benevolent improvements to what was before - judging everything by the same one standard doesn't grant us a fair understanding of anything. It's possible that one future generation will look back on Light as overwhelmingly right.
...That said? I believe Light is still totally wrong.
Once the death note gets to him, he is corrupted beyond repair. He is a sociopath and a fraud, an egotist who doesn't consider the possibility he may be wrong. He may be a prodigy, but no prodigy is beyond the wisdom of all. Such a person could NEVER make a good world. As Near said, he's just another crazy serial killer.
Thanks for mentioning this. I don't think it changes much from a thematic aspect but it does add some gravitas to an already pretty powerful conclusion to the story.
@@Aleczandxr And he was shot by someone who everyone thought of as a joke. Yet he had more bravery than someone who wrote names of people he wished to die from the safety of his desk. This is also why news reports of death notes in schools should probably be taken more seriously than many weebs do.
well said.
Light aint a sociopath,you are delusional if you think that
@@hedonisticvampire9259 You wanna tell me what he was thinking on his own father's deathbed?
Well today will be better. New video from you.
:-)
Light only lost because near used some bs plot hole and saw a man on tv and instantly assumed he was Kira 2 and was right
True.If it wouldn't be for all the asspulls than Light would have won in the end.
"LMAO I had my caretaker duplicate an entire notebook in a single night and replaced it without KIRA'S NUMBA WUN FAN noticing.... except he totally did but then he didn't check it properly because of reasons"
Light shouldve known that feds only make the sweep when they got all the evidence 😂😂
And the Near plothole that he was dumb enough to talk about Kira on TV and trust a gym locker with the most powerful mass murder weapon ever conceived.
Solstia beyond factz Near won the Lottery
So what you are saying is Griffith did nothing wrong?
I'm not touching that one with a 20-foot pole, I've learned my lesson.
Aleczandxr fair enough
Why? It was a good video, one of your best in fact!
+TheVsagent Oh, I know that it was a great video. But my point is that that clickbaitey title brought more headaches than it was worth.
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
On a more serious note, I don't think many people would refuse that choice.
Incredible analysis! Enjoyed it very much.
Thanks, I'm happy to hear that!
Nelv T
*Cheers*
Soooo the donflamingo quote.
I had no idea who he was until someone explained to me why everyone was commenting about some Flamingo dude.
Aleczandxr lol not a one piece fan then? Either way still a great video that really explained the concept a lot more then the quote did.
Great Video Yet Again My Man, I'm Forever Impressed By Your Every Upload.
Means a lot man, thanks very much as always
Light lost for being human, he truly couldn't be a God, so he lost in the end, a reminder to show that Light is no God
Sometimes I feel very pessimistic about life and the short/long term future. It all feels so dull and "rotten." Then you upload a video and it transports me to a new world of nostalgia. Although I have seen the anime or played the game you talk about countless times you offer a fresh new look into them. Thank you for constantly producing such great work. I know I, as well as others, really appreciate it.
That's very nice of you man, glad I can do my part.
"Why are there no bathrooms at Gryffindor's tower? "That's the real question!
The entire time I was watching, i remembered the quote "There is neither good or bad, but thinking makes it so" - Hamlet. I think it fits well with this video.
*doctor:* "you only have 10:25 to live."
*Me:* klicks on this video
I agree with what you said, not just for death note, but in reality. I believe right and wrong to be alot more subjective than people make it out to be, though not completely. I think everyone has a reason for doing what they do and they justify those things by either ignoring or straightfully declining the conciquences of their actions, all of us, to verying degrees, do this, I believe.
To quote Terry Pratchet's Death, "THERE IS NO JUSTICE, ONLY ME."
Damn Alec I wish I had some friends to talk about stuff with like you, all your videos open me up to different idea and help me perceive anime through a different lense. Thanks man you're doing a fantastic job and I'll be joining your patreon keep it up man!
Very much appreciated, Justin. That's super generous of you, thank you! :-)
I use the google translation, and I think that the human-made concept of justice, ironically, can not be absolute justice as long as we are human beings. Even if a hero defeats an evil character, from the viewpoint of the evil character, the hero will be recognized as an enemy to attack. The act of harming the other for their own purposes can not be justice for any purpose. Even a hero. There is no justice in human conflict, and justice is a concept that is fundamentally based on human sensibility, so there may be other justices from the sensitivities of anyone else. I think that it is the work of Death note that expressed it objectively.
I think your writing is fantastic and I can't wait to see which anime you decide to discuss next, keep it up!
Much obliged, Lewis. Thanks!
I'm just glad there's finally some analytical videos on DeathNote, there's not many of them out there sadly, and seeing as DeathNotes a favorite I was really happy with this video. Like always your videos win me over, and always make me think while entertaining me. Good stuff
Thanks dude.
Death Note has always been a beautiful story to me. Just how when you really think about it, L always knew Light was Kira and Light always knew that L knew that. It was just a beautifully catastrophic friendship with deadly consequences.
Still one of my favourite videos in the world
The dub is best Im sorry L's voice is sexy af
Also Death Note is just the best thing I've ever watched and I love it so much.
Man I'm in love with your opinions
Seriously what an analysis
AMAZINGGGGGGGGGG
2 dislikes = Light and that guy who keeps saying "DELETE !"
Karan Rawat mikami
Thanks
Teru Mikami? He's the guy that says "Delete"
Great video man. I'm looking into a lot of anime stuff as of recent - Death Note included - and four minutes into the video and you're blowing my mind.
That's great to hear, man. I'm glad you found the video to be valuable and I appreciate the kind words!
I always saw how the series tried to show that the nature of justice was abstract and that it all depends of human perception and situations....
You seriously have the best analysis on anime on youtube. I loved your Hunter X Hunter and Berserk videos, this one was great too. Looking forward to more.
That's very nice of you, thank you.
"Good will always come out on top" is actually a very stupid quote, since time is probably endless.
For us Christians, the end is written and good MUST prevail. Sin cannot be allowed to exist. It is simply too dangerous and deserves death.
@ well, ok. That's not true but okay.
Every tab at 0:33 is another reason to love this channel
L believes Justice is rational justice, meaning his actions are based off of, 'if I am correct, and you are wrong, then I am just, then I am justice.'
Light believes in moral justice, ' if you do wrong for the wrong reason, you are unjust, then i will punish you therefore I am just, and then I am justice'.
I easily agree with your take on it, I always like to listen to yours and other people's discussion bids like this when it comes to anime and fiction media in general to get different pov to have my certain opinion& facts from different sides to get the full picture especially as a writer. I think your take actually makes a lot of sense and I can't get to much into detail why cause I'm busy. But I loved your take on it, death note really changed my view of anime early on as like one of my first to start and I could not stop watching and opened my mind to different things about anime, anime to watch and my view on writing and philosophy in general.
I think you're completely right. It's quite telling that L was willing to use the death note itself in order to convict Light, which goes against his sense of 'justice'. In the end, both men just wanted to beat eachother, and their lack of justice is what made the battle so intriguing. Great video
*It's quite telling that L was willing to use the death note itself in order to convict Light, which goes against his sense of 'justice'*
Definitely. Either it was a slowly devolution into petty pride or L never cared about justice in the first place, but either way it's obvious that the guy wasn't concerned with doing what was "right" at all.
Aleczandxr Agreed
Ye, L is a True Neutral kind of guy.
+Naruto Uzumaki
Coming from Naruto himself. What Irony
Naruto Uzumaki tokyo ghoul is awsome
The description you gave was beyond a reasonable doubt an excellent one.
i believe that there is no good without evil. The same applies for the other way around. Justice is a point of view and nothing more
Beyond the Horizon
Without bad, there is no good.
Without hate, there is no Love.
Without darkness, there is no light.
Without death there is no life.
Great video. Had these thoughts ever since I finished the series some time ago, glad that there are people who share this interpretation, or a similar one at the very least.
Thank you!
Light is one of my favorite villain types.
Modern amateur writers go for this "oh he has good intentions" type of sympathetic villains with tragic backstories but whose plans and execution all suck. Their backstory comes off as an excuse for their idiocy and incompetence.
Light's true intentions are purely egotistical and selfish but his results speak for themselves. Defeating him means destroying much of the positive changes of the world. His intentions doesn't matter.
Aleczandxr, i followed you for your unreal depth on HxH. Now you're here with my 2nd fav show of all time, LOVE YOU BROOOO
Aleczandxr Since the HxH Manga has returned, can we please see you do a video on HxH videos sometime soon? This arc could end up being something mind blowing. Togashi might as well make it end soon, and seeing the setup so far, you can sense this will probably beat Chimera Arc, and its a huge ask considering how its such an amazing arc, but this one can. You could just wait a bit longer and do it with much more content.
I like to think that Kira was truly born after Light killed his second victim. It confirmed with absolute certainty that the Death Note has the power to kill and he was responsible for it. I think his God complex was born out a desperate justification for what he had done. When he truly became a sociopath.
i think light rather justified his doing to himself than admitting that he did wrong, in the manga it seemed like he needed to convince HIMSELF that he's justice, and i agree with you. he almost vomited after realising what he'd done, but keeps going on, because he maybe couldnt cope with it, so he convinced himself it was just, and that he should continue to cleanse the world from evil, which is quite ironic, considering that he became a serial killer who killed hundreds of thousands of people for what he thought of as justice.
been with you since 5k. your content is s ranked and your clearly passionate about the themes and philosiphy of these stories. keep killing it alex.
Thanks very much dude, I appreciate the long term support!
Ah, I still remember that one shot... I still laugh about how L picked Mello and Near not because they were good... but because they looked nasty, lmfao.
You just blew my mind
I feel like this show has been getting a lot of flack recently for being "emo". But the way it tackles moral questions is actually still pretty solid.
So glad to see your channel growing Alex!
Thank you!
I fee that L had to die bc it was a symboled of Light killing his good self and allowing Kera take full control.
I read the exact same article in Quora before seeing this video ...Are you the author of that article too?? I really loved your interpretion ...And it is the BEST Understanding on Death Note.....Keep it up man !!!!
Could I please subtitle this for PT-BR? I really enjoy your work but I can't even show to my brother or friends because most of them would not understand the video... If I can't,it's Okay! Just keep up with your great work!
I'd be honoured! Here: ua-cam.com/users/timedtext_video?v=5jBbQ40nX3I&ref=share
After another shitty day it gives me solace having one of my favorite UA-camrs uploading a video
Hope I could help a little
Deity Saturn, yes.
This conversation was in the manga, not sure if they included it in the anime. But some time after they captured Light (it was a year if I remember correctly) Matsuda and some other task force member met. Matsuda questioned if it's good Kira was captured because during his reign there was barely any crime and within that year everything went back to "normal". The other guy tells him, that he doesn't know if it's good that they caught him, but he knows one thing - if they didn't kill Light he would kill them (since Kira killed people who opposed his order) so he's just happy to be alive. Basically the winning side themselves isn't sure what they did was really justice they are just happy they won.
Excellent video my dude
Cheers!
whether or not you believe Kira was justified in killing criminals, the central message of death note can be boiled down to the fact that that too much power in the hands of one person is always corrupting. When Light began taking extreme measures to secure his position of power, he lost the moral high ground (if he ever had it in the first place!) Although justice is a major theme in the series, I believe L understood that it's an entirely subjective concept and was simply trying to take down Kira because his power made him dangerous.
Another great video as always. Thank you for making it! You also brought up a very interesting point, the quote about Light and justice. It reminded me of a classical idiom nearly all Mandarin speakers know, especially when learning about history: 勝者為王，敗者為寇。(成王敗寇) It means: Legitimacy belongs to the victor, the vanquished become bandits/invaders. In a way, justice had never been part of history or society, eternally abstract and ambiguous. I don’t know if there is such an idiom in Japanese, but some mentalities can be a rather similar.
(From my own prospective) this has bred certain objectivity, sometimes apathy in East Asian society, especially when compared to the Americas. People can find it difficult/unnecessary to choose sides. You don’t want to be the first, nor the last. The majority of people find it most comfortable to follow other examples made before them. So, what I found most intriguing about Death Note were the different reactions people made while being forced or coerced into taking a side, and all the degrees in between. I guess it comes down to, how idealistic a person is, and that’s what makes the world so engaging.
Btw, I would argue that the most just and moral character in Death Note was Soichiro Yagami, by today’s standards of justice. (Hence, Wedy calls him a stick in the mud.)
Thank you for sharing that! Admittedly, Mandarin idioms are not things that I tend to absorb myself with (lol), so it's very interesting when people bring up things that I would otherwise not have known. That's fascinating, and it's pretty much synonymous with what Death Note seems to be saying. I also totally agree that Soichiro is the closest thing to justice - and he's unceremoniously killed, which is pretty indicative of the series' take on justice, haha.
You should watch Legend of The Galactic Heroes.
;-)
I have wanted this video for a long time
There really is no justice in Death Note
well bruh
Nor is there in reality.
Taylor Edwards
#lolz
Light: I am-!
L: I am-!
Both: Justice!!!
This is also what doflamingo logic of justice. Well for me, i haven't found what justice really means, to me its only a punishment to the one who deserves. Justify base on society or for your own good. Maybe thats why libra has a blindfold in her figures. I guess everything isn't entirely true, even God forsaken us before until his son saved us from him, with faith and love. I know its biblical, but could you find justice base on that?. Its faith and hope all alone. I dont know.
Awesome vid. I'd like to see you do an analysis comparing and contrasting Light and L.
I would go as for as to say that justice doesn't exist in real life at all, unless you accept moral principles like "we should maximise the well being of conscious creatures" as axioms which can't be proved, at least from an atheistic point of view.
And in the real world, I would say that "free will" doesn't exist in any meaningful way. Sure we make choices, but if we are to accept the empirical fact that our brains are made out of atoms obeying the laws of physics, in what way can our choices be labelled as "free" in any meaningful way? Whether the physical matter comprising our brain behaves deterministically or as a result of randomness ( the behaviour of small particles in particular circumstances can be modelled probabilistically), where does free will come from? And supposing we did have a soul, what would control decision making?How can a soul work outside the bounds of cause and effect and also of randomness? Would someone be unlucky to be given the soul of a murderer?
When we accept that free will doesn't exist in any meaningful way, punishing criminals makes no sense from the point of view of righteous retribution, but instead from the point of view of wanting to protect society and rehabilitate criminals.
If I did believe in free will though, I would probably agree with Light for the most part on morality.
Make a choice between two options, A or B:
A: Tell me the first item you see on your left.
B: Tell me the color of the second item you see on your right.
After you do so, please understand that viewing the universe as having no free will "because we're made of atoms being controlled by physics" is a load of hogwash.
You can CHOOSE to do nothing until you starve. You can also choose to make yourself meals, live, and work.
Even the Bible, with some people hold up as "proof" that there's no free will, has a large number of times where Believers are told to choose, willingly, not obey blindly.
There is Justice in the world, because people create and enforce objective standards of morality. We are not just dust on stellar winds, we are PEOPLE, and we will make our mark on this universe, even if it is fleeting by galactic standards.
There can't be privileges or responsabilities without free will.
GokuTheSuperSaiyanDemon if the system did not deal out punishment vigilantes would simply do it themselves more than usual.
Herman Cillo, I didn't deny the existence of choice. Of course we make choices, I am merely arguing that from a scientific point of view our choices are determined by particles obeying the laws of physics. You haven't written an argument to address that point. Part of the problem here comes down to how you want to define free will. Some people will label our ability to make choices as "free will", even if they think that our choices are pre-determined.
People create and enforce their own standards of morality, but I don't see how they are in any way objective, unless you believe in a religion. How do you objectively decide what is "right" or "wrong" without first making assumptions, such as it is right to maximise human well being?
I believe in God, and I also believe in free will, because of the sheer number of times in the Bible that making a choice, and free will are part of the lessons.
God defines morality in The Bible, for me. And I'd argue that the morality taught in the New Testament is well beyond pretty damn good.
Also, using a religious standard for secular morals is acceptable too. Because, if you look at what religious morals are, they are some of the best morals we have, despite some (major) mistakes.
TAKE MY MONEY GOOD SIR
YOU HAVE MADE SO MANY WONDERFUL VIDEOS!
Death note is one of the only anime where I whole heartedly believe that the dub is far better.
I feel that
Eeyup death note is better in the dub
Hellsing Ultimate
I'm glad you made a video of this. Death Note is one of my favorites, mostly because of the philosophy of right and wrong, and the plot mechanism of a note book that kills.
You are the Jordan Peterson of anime
Aleczandxr, thanks for this really good review and interpretation. Your videos are great, and the subjects are deeps in meaning, philosophically speaking. The concept of Justice is an interesting one, and you have done a very good explanation through the lens of Death Note.
Man full metal alchemist brotherhood, hunter x hunter, gurren lagann and now death note? If you do a video on haikyuu then you might be my favorite youtuber.
Guess I'll remain a sub-favourite for a good while then..
Aleczandxr your still in the top 3 either way.
Aleczandxr Do shingeki yori
spartan kitty games and then?