Hey everyone, I hope you enjoyed this video. What do you think about my shorter format in the last few videos? I don't wanna waste your time and pad out videos with filler, but I wonder how much depth you want me to go into in reviews. For home baristas like me, I just wanna know if its fun to use every day and if it works well 😉
I have had the DF64 for nearly a year now and really find it perfect for my daily needs. I did run into an issue early on when I was usually grinding oily dark roasts. Within about a month of daily use the motor was trying to drive the burr but has locked up, caused by accumulated grinds filling the voids. I now do a complete cleaning before a month is out if grinding dark roasts. With dry medium to lighter roasts I estimate perhaps a clean every 6+ months might be appropriate.
I've had mine a couple of weeks now and have been very happy with it and agree with your comments. As I only use it for grinding for espresso I'm not really getting any noticeable mess when using the bellows. I use it for grinding espresso for my '92 La Pavoni Pro and it's a huge step up from the Breville grinder I've been using.
I saw one video where the user added an extra .1 or .2 grams, (or a little extra, I can't remember exactly), and did not use the bellows for the espresso shot, but then blew out the retained coffee powder after having filled the cup and portafilter. This made sense to me. So for example, dosing 18.1 grams, grinding in the cup, loading the portafilter, putting the cup back in the forks or holding it under the chute, and then using the bellows. This would prevent the powdery fines from getting into the shot. This grinder is definitely on my wish list and I think havjng the option to be able to try different SSP burrs is a huge selling point over many other grinders.
I removed the Silicon declumper all the way. As long as you use it for espresso only, no much static will occurs. It will help to reduce the regrinding issue as well.
For years I've been using an old Mazzer Mini, which is a great grinder for commercial settings but, not so much for home use. I just need a single doser and have come down to two - Eureka Mignon or the DF64. I think I'm leaning toward the DF64. Thanks for the video!
I made a mark on the aluminum collar next to the adjustment ring with a Sharpie. Not the perfect arrangement, but still much easier to read than the built in reference mark. The sharpie ink can be removed with with tiny bit of alcohol.
You grind all the way down to 11? Did adjust your springs when you got your grinder? After I adjusted the springs on I’m sitting around 22-23 and getting great shots
It's gonna be slightly different on each grinder, and different with each bean. I tend to use a lot of light roasts so I generally have to grind finer 😉
Hello, is it suitable for brewing filtered coffee in 1 liter of water 10 times in 1 day, 60 gr of coffee? Will I have problems? I own a boutique mini coffee shop. Thank you
I don't really know about longevity, but with that kind of volume ~600g per day I don't think it's going to have a bad effect. You might just need to replace the burrs every few years 😅
I grind most of my medium and medium light roastst around 5-8. And never ground beyond that. I use the stock steel burrs, and alliggned them very well. Retention is almost zero, but espresso range is very small.
Oh interesting, on mine the espresso range is great! Usually around 15 ±5 and the burrs touch at about 3 or 4. I guess every grinder is slightly different. At what number do the burrs touch?
Great video! Thanks for the update on James Hoffmann's review! A couple questions for you, if by chance you get to read my comment: - How did you get the grinder shipped to Japan? Did you have any troubles with that? - Do you know of differences between the old and revised versions of the product that would make it easy to identify online? (Would like to avoid buying the old one!) - Have you tried any of the 3D printed enhancements which Hoffmann seems to say would enhance usability quite a bit? By the way, it took me about 20 seconds to guess that you live in Japan too: the wallpaper at 0:20 is so typical! :D
Hey David, thanks for the comment and I hope you're enjoying Japan as well. I got the DF64 from Joe at EspressoOutlet (link in the description) and reached out to him directly to ship to Japan. Might be harder or more expensive now because of oil prices and Ukraine stuff, but it's better than trying to go through a Japanese importer who will double (or more) the price. He definitely has the most up-to-date one on the website and they're also selling an e version which has a hopper and electric dosing mechanism. I haven't tried any of the 3D printed upgrades, but would like to see more of them if I had access to 3d printer 😅
I was wondering if u would pick that ginder of Rancilio Rocky Doserless Grinder. I'm been wanting to get my first exposso set up for yrs. But with so many options ... I always end up just overwhelmed becuase I really want something that is great quality .
The rocky used to be a good option, but there are much better options at that price range now. Even £200-400 range there are some really competitive grinders like the DF64 and SK40
Do you think it's practical to switch settings daily on the DF64, between a dialed-in espresso setting and something else (maybe another espresso setting, or filter)? Asking because right now I'm using one grinder per method/coffee, my main espresso grinder being an on-demand grinder with significant retention. And I wonder if a DF64 would be convenient as a replacement for multiple grinders, assuming I'd then switch settings 2-3 times each day.
I change mine a lot and have no problems. It's near zero retention and I haven't had any problems switching (that's why I keep my notebook with espresso grind settings and switching to and from is no problem at all).
For keeping things clean, you can get a cheap 3d printed mod that holds the cup closer to the spout, so when using the bellows, the coffee doesn't blow out around the cup as much. Also using a funnel if you grind into the portafiler is helpful, if you have something the right size. With my Specialiata the funnel didn't fit well with the forks, so I removed the forks and just held the portafilter with funnel and that works just fine, it should work with this one too, it's about the same or faster grind speed, so it's not like you're holding it for very long. The 1zpresso K plus hand grinder actually has some retention, and I found it can be messy to get it off sometimes! Coffee sticks to the bottom part around the burrs instead of falling into the cup, I think you had reviewed that one before. I never really minded the dial indicator issue that much, but I suppose if your going back and forth to different brew methods and want to go back precisely it would be an annoyance. Lots of people are using 3d printed dial indicator pointers for that as well.
Yeah I feel like this grinder is built with modders in mind. I don't 3d print anything but I'm sure I could do more fun coffee stuff if I picked one up.
@@homecafecharlie people are 3d printing stuff for lots of applications. It's pretty neat. I had a 3d printed single dosing hopper for my Specialita before I had a DF64. I found a local guy that does prints cheap. The only issue is whether or not 3d printed plastic is really good safe but something like a cup holder or dial pointer shouldn't be an issue. Not sure I'd trust something like a 3d printed declumper (which also exists for this grinder).
I had heaps (excuse the pun) of retention issues on the 1ZPresso K-Plus until I started to use the RDT. Now I have hardly any retention(although still have to use the firm brush to clean up directly where the burrs meet on the underside of the grinder).
@@BensCoffeeRants no problem at all to be honest. I only give it a quick spritz. Have been doing this for around 3 months now and haven’t noticed any discolouration or signs of rust on the burrs. I hadn’t heard that they specifically recommend not to RDT. I will certainly keep an eye on it but I don’t think it will do much damage. Perhaps it’s just a COA on 1ZPresso’s behalf so that they’re not liable should anything ever happen?
Hi Charlie, I’m just in the newbie research stage. Between the DF64 and Niche Zero, I've heard that the DF64 imparts greater clarity and fruity notes while the Niche Zero contributes to a richer, more chocolatey profile. Would you agree with that assessment (assuming you have some experience with both grinders)? Secondly, I’ve watched videos on different lever machines but I’m still confused about the choice between fully manual and spring lever. From what I understand, manuals like the Robot give you control over temperature, pressure, and length of pull. But in the end, will that give me a better espresso than a spring version of the Odyssey Argos or is it simply an experiential preference?
I'm hoping to get my hands on an Odyssey Argos as well for a review. It looks like a really fantastic machine. It's a proper espresso machine as opposed to something like the cafelat Robot or the Flair which can't steam milk. As for the grinders, that's more or less correct. Conical shaped burrs tend to have a more bimodal distribution, which leads to less clarity but more texture. I like my DF64 a lot, and I've had some really amazing espresso from it. If you get a chance to try them out before you buy, you can tell the difference.
@@homecafecharlie I’d be interested in hearing your review of the Odyssey Argos. It seems like they’re packing a lot of features into the Argos at a reasonable price and I’d like to know what compromises had to be made. So which version would you prefer and why - the manual, 6 bar spring, or 9 bar spring? Please correct me if I’m wrong, but my understanding is the 64mm SSP High Uniformity burrs impart a good balance between clarity and texture.
Well my Eureka is 33% less where I live and the espresso for me is far more enjoyable then the stock DF64. I have the new version and the retention is substantial, about 1.5g-1.7g stuck in the chute, I also have grinds build up above the grounds wipers (Don't know the correct name) in the grinds chamber. I was also having a plugged chute 1 out of 3 shots where I could not bellow at all, so bellowing while you grind does help this. I replaced the de-clumper with a home made one and retention is very low, static is still not the best but shots are better. Right now this won't replace my Eureka but maybe SSP burrs will change that. Ever-ones palette is different but be prepared to modify and upgrade to get the best out of this grinder. You can check out the Blue Bird Roastery review, he uses terms like the grind is pretty good and I don't think the new de-clumper has solved the issue. If they move the notches to the bottom and the numbers to the beveled edge that would help.
@@homecafecharlie For sure, costs are crazy. This afternoon I was playing with my Breville Dose Control grinder into the Eureka to get an idea of what the Versalab dual burr grinder would be like. Preliminary tests looked better then I thought so will try some good beans in the morning. What fun. Best of luck with your channel!
Hey Charlie and coffee people 🙂 I know there’s lots of mods out there for the DF64. With the new version, do you feel those mods are necessary anymore? If so, what would you recommend upgrading (besides the burrs)?
Great question. Lots of people I know love their mods. I don't have a 3D printer but there are a lot of great mods I would want to use. Probably the main one would be an angled cup holder so you get less spray over the edge when you blow the grinds out. It's very little but some does blow up. Also maybe a pointer for where the grind setting is. I fixed it with a bit of paper and tape, but the new DF83 has a nice metal ring pointer on it that I think was inspired by a DF64 mod 😎
Quality of video production has improved from previous ones!! To the point, informative and entertaining :) after Hoffman video I removed DF64 from my top picks but after yours definitely considering it again. Thank you !! :) can you do a DF64 vs lagom mini showdown .. or give your thoughts on the lagom mini :)
Thanks so much for your nice comment! I don't know if I can do too many comparisons. A lot of other coffee people on UA-cam own coffee companies and I'm just a dude who is doing this for fun, I make almost 0 money from YT and can't afford $500+ grinders 2x a month for reviews lol. But I have a lot of fun stuff planned to talk about brewing and latte art 😎
@@homecafecharlie no worries :) if ever you do come across trying the lagom mini your thoughts would be appreciated. By all means keep being the guy who is doing this for fun - it’s shown and felt from your videos. :)
Hey Charlie, Thank you for the informative video, I been looking to get a “real” grinder as of late. And I’m debating between this (DF64), Niche, or wait and back Kopi Deva (which I believe you’re the only one on UA-cam with a video out). How would you say the Kopi Deva prototype compares to the DF64? What would you keep?
The Kopi Deva and DF64 are both 64mm flat burrs, so very similar in performance, so it depends more on how it looks for you. The Niche is a different kind of machine, and I would really like to try one. My sister has one in the UK so I will try it out next time I go. I don't have the money some other coffee video makers have to buy tons of gear haha
I got on a Baratza Vario train a few months ago with a whole slew of upgrades lined up for the future. I can't seem to find any major differences between DF64 and Vario to affect a purchase decision. They are both in a relatively similar price range, espresso quality, workflow, etc. Perhaps, upgradability and customer service would be the stronger side for Vario. What do you think?
I've never tried a Vario. DF64 has much bigger burrs and single dose, but the Vario looks great too. If I get a chance to try one maybe I'll do a comparison video (maybe)
@@homecafecharlie yeah, that’s pretty cool. I’ve modded my vario with a few accessories: a stand to accommodate a dosing cup (no coffee grinds spillage btw ;) ) and a single dose hopper with a lid (all 3D printed from Thingiverse). I was mostly inspired by Lance Hedrick’s video on Vario and also got bellows for it from Amazon. It’s probably a good option for those who enjoy the freedom to upgrade their coffee equipment. I’ll probably buy stainless steel burrs next for it, but the coffee is already so much more enjoyable even with ceramic burrs, then what cheaper grinders can offer.
Based on the number of mods needed on the original DF64 and the potential cost of these I ordered the Kopi Diva and I am waiting eagerly fir delivery, you have used them both so I would welcome your comparison of the 2 grinders.
I wish I still had the Deva to do the comparison but I had to send it back after the review. If I get another chance to play with one I'd love to compare, since they are both great flat burr grinders under $1000
@@Pdubbcooking from my viewing of the original the anti clumping filter needs replacing, which needed the dismantling of the grinder, it really needs the pointer ring to more accurately set the grind setting and the forks that held the grinds catcher/portafilter were not tight enough to hold a portafilter without it vibrating loose, so I chose to take a gamble and order the Diva rather than wait for a Niche or get the DF64 and do the mods, I also think for the money the potential of the Diva with rechargeable battery and variable rpm make it a great value grinder compared to the Niche and DF64. I thin if I'd bought the DF64 I would have been happy but, I am happy with mu decision so far, but who know what it will be like when it's finally here next year
@@homecafecharlie Ah, darn! Do you have any good website or idea on how to get cheaper used coffee equipment here? Sometimes there's good deals on Mercari but most of the time people are charging so much. Or a good way to get cheaper prices in general?
You're in Japan? Any issues with the US model, given that electricity runs at 100v/50-60hz? (I always found it weird that half of Japan operates at 60hz while the other half 50hz.)
Can you make a mark closer to the adjustment ring? Like correction fluid or a white marker? Maybe painters tape and a sharpie if you don't want to mar the aesthetics permanently?
What sifter screens did you use? How long did you sift? I ask because the 200um screen is really tough to sift with unless you use something to help push the grounds through.
Ordered mine, now hopefully it would be here this week! Can’t afford the niche coz its almost triple priced here, and u’ll be very lucky if u can get your hand on 1.
Imagine if Hoffman did an DF64 Vs Eureka Oro Single Doser... I think he's involved with that company so he's not going to do that, but at this point I think he would have more complaints about the Oro than the DF64 in its current state anyway. Hopefully they resolve the issues.
It was between this and the Kopi Deva for me but I ultimately went for the Deva. What are your conclusions between the two? It’ll be replacing my Niche potentially.
That's very interesting that you would upgrade from the Niche to something that I would have thought was in a similar range. Next step up for you would be something like the Monolith haha
@@homecafecharlie Totally 🤣 It’s more a move to the flat burr world and see if that makes any real difference. Not a massive fan of the niche for filter coffee either.
Hi Charlie, Hoffman was using Decent which I believe has at least a short preinfisuon which requires finer grind setting;) that might be reason why he went too fine compared to you.
I would like to know what you think about the df64 vs the kopi ( I know they are not the same but I am curious about the noise difference between the 2)
Very similar noise levels and performance. I didn't have them both at the same time, so it's hard to tell the difference. Both of them make fantastic espresso so I guess it mostly depends on which design you prefer
I personally think James did a disservice in his review of the DF 64. His reviews of late seem to be product placement. Not that the DF 64 is the godsend of flat burrs. But why even compare to the Niche. The Niche is killing itself in my opinion by not being able to supply and the actual price you have to pay for it.
I think the comparison with the niche is natural at this price point, but you're right that Niche has really failed to meet demand for years now, and they need to step up their supply chain game and deal with scalpers. Personally I think the DF64 is a fantastic grinder, and am still very happy with it
I’m not that impressed by the D64 I have. I purchased it from Bella barista in the UK, in April. I’m finding I need to grind around 5 or less for espresso with medium roasts. I’ve checked alignment and have found it to be fine. And, as I also have 2-3 beans on the go at once and change through them daily; it’s virtually impossible to get a consistent result after moving the dial to the last known good value for the variety of coffee. And that’s with running a dose through and throwing it out to flush out remnants of previous grinds. I need something more consistent for my needs, so I’ll step up to something that’s known for it.
Wait so the updated version is a font change and ground retention redesign that doesn't help much. How about eureka? there is always the silenzio/manuale other than the specialita
Being flat burrs, it's very consistent and would make a good pour over. However, I can't attest to the taste of filter myself as I don't make filter coffee much. I'm an espresso guy 😁
Very similar in terms of performance, so I think it's mostly down to looks and your preference. I hope I can get them side by side when the Deva is finally out
It still needs a V2. I have the Eureka Oro Mignon XL, but that too isn't perfect and you can forget using it for pourovers AND espresso .. Its dialing system needs a revamp.
The Mk4 has a pointer and plastic clump thing so most things fixed. There is the Gen 2, but with the drop in price of the old one, its even more of a bargen.
I love mine! Have the ssp hu burrs. Embarrassingly, I just ordered a second one with an ssp unimodal burr set. For the price of one higher end grinder, I get the best of both worlds. Hoping my wife doesn't notice! With a few simple mods i have no mess, easy dialing in ... basically every down side handled.
There wasn't really much 'issues' with the original version, I think they just updated the font on top and the clump crusher to have 2 thinner silicon flaps vs one thick one. I have one of the original ones I think with the original clump buster (unless it has the older top but the updated clump crusher) and I can barely tell the difference. One thing in the Hoffman video was for coarser grinding it appeared to be quite a static-y mess, I do find for coarser grinding you do get some more static /chaff attracted to the spout, but it's not nearly as bad as in his video, others have said the same. RDT (Spraying the coffee with a misting of water before grinding) should help. For espresso grind sizes the static / chaff doesn't seem to be a problem. Funny that Hoffman never really complained much in his Monolith video about having to use RDT, from my experience the Monolith Flat at least (with Shuriken LM Burrs) has much worse static since there's no clump crusher (which also prevents static).
Not sure about the newer version but I'm sure that before the burrs had a stock and then you could pay more for SSP high uniformity burrs. I didn't notice any real difference in flavour with the high uniformity burrs...
Hey Charlie, In like your content since a long while and as many i know and respect Hoffmann, but you know... You don't need the click bait reference, the title and the differences with Hoffmann are fair but a little forced, of course you should mention it, but IMHO ditch the clickbaits in the future and grow by your own strengths, you have more than plenty
Thank you Felipe for your belief in my ability. It's not something I plan to do again, but I thought about this video a lot and for me, adding yet another DF64 review to UA-cam wasn't only a bad strategy, it wouldn't be useful or interesting. The main thing I thought was that Hoffmann had a very definitive review on an earlier version, so the main point of this was to tell people who saw his review and decided not to get a DF64 because he was so negative about it, to reconsider. I'm glad you like my videos and I hope you'll come back for the next one where I won't even mention Hoffmann once! 😀
@@Snidel this title was the reason I clicked on the video. Opinions are subjective and I would not agree with you. Click bait is okay as long as the content meets viewer’s expectations. Sometimes it can be hard to retain your authenticity if people are telling you what they want you to do left and right. Maybe if it’s a problem for most, then it would be a good point to consider. I enjoyed the title and the content :)
@@ItsNITREX Im not saying clickbait doesnt work, as Veritasium already addressed in their video about how clickbait is irrationally effective (ua-cam.com/video/S2xHZPH5Sng/v-deo.html ) if I did my comment it's because i don't think it matches Charlie's style and of course it's his channel and he can do whatever he likes, i just don't think it pays off in the long run (refer to the above video) and he just doesn't need it. Ion a second train of thoughts, i will go always for what is right now than for what is convenient, since the title suggests there could be some mistakes on Hoffmann's review to then say hey we reviewed different versions and of course the idea is to attract more viewers even at the expanse of leaving seeds of doubts onto another person's work for non fair reasons (since they reviewed different versions) i don't think Charlie did it in purpose, but it's an outcome, again Charlie has good enough content to stand by his own merits, he doesn't need this kind of techniques to go further
I don’t know how long you have had this grinder but I suggest you review it after having and using it for a couple of month. Although they have changed the silicone declumper to a thinner one it still has issues with clogging. You do need to clean it very frequently or you will have increase clogging in the chute. Once it starts clogging up you will find an increase of the fins that the DF64 produces. That does not make it a bad grinder, not at all. Hoffmann never said it was a bad grinder , to the contrary. However, he said it’s not the right grinder for someone that is not willing to tinker with the grinder out of the box. Because it’s not perfect out of the box but it’s a good grinder for the price. I agree with Hoffmann.
I might revisit it if my experience changes in the future. I've had it maybe 2 months and using it every day has been great. Hoffman didn't say it was terrible or anything, but he did say a LOT of negative stuff about it that is no longer true of the current retail version, so I hope that people seeing this will reconsider it since the niche sells out in seconds when they have new ones out 😅
@@homecafecharlie I have both the Niche and the DF64. I also upgraded the DF64 with the SSP Hight Uniformity Burrs. I like the DF64 but if I had to keep only one of them I would keep the Niche. I find the Niche is better finished out if the box than the DF64. However, I intend on keeping both because they complement each other.
@@EdGodoyPlana Yeah I wish I had the money to really get into the world of grinders and try out more of them. So far I've really fallen in love with flat burr grinders like the Kopi Deva and this one (the only ones I have tried). They are both fun to use and produce noticeably better espresso!
Hey everyone, I hope you enjoyed this video. What do you think about my shorter format in the last few videos? I don't wanna waste your time and pad out videos with filler, but I wonder how much depth you want me to go into in reviews. For home baristas like me, I just wanna know if its fun to use every day and if it works well 😉
It's Hoffmann btw, two N's
I like both formats, earned by sub either way!!! :)
I have had the DF64 for nearly a year now and really find it perfect for my daily needs. I did run into an issue early on when I was usually grinding oily dark roasts. Within about a month of daily use the motor was trying to drive the burr but has locked up, caused by accumulated grinds filling the voids. I now do a complete cleaning before a month is out if grinding dark roasts. With dry medium to lighter roasts I estimate perhaps a clean every 6+ months might be appropriate.
Nice to hear that your experience after a year is still great. I've had mine for a few months and I love it!
I've had mine a couple of weeks now and have been very happy with it and agree with your comments. As I only use it for grinding for espresso I'm not really getting any noticeable mess when using the bellows. I use it for grinding espresso for my '92 La Pavoni Pro and it's a huge step up from the Breville grinder I've been using.
Love it! Such a great grinder 😍
I saw one video where the user added an extra .1 or .2 grams, (or a little extra, I can't remember exactly), and did not use the bellows for the espresso shot, but then blew out the retained coffee powder after having filled the cup and portafilter. This made sense to me. So for example, dosing 18.1 grams, grinding in the cup, loading the portafilter, putting the cup back in the forks or holding it under the chute, and then using the bellows. This would prevent the powdery fines from getting into the shot. This grinder is definitely on my wish list and I think havjng the option to be able to try different SSP burrs is a huge selling point over many other grinders.
I removed the Silicon declumper all the way. As long as you use it for espresso only, no much static will occurs. It will help to reduce the regrinding issue as well.
For years I've been using an old Mazzer Mini, which is a great grinder for commercial settings but, not so much for home use. I just need a single doser and have come down to two - Eureka Mignon or the DF64. I think I'm leaning toward the DF64. Thanks for the video!
I’ve narrowed it down to the DF64GEN2
What choice did you make, and how’s your decision.
Thank you in advance
I made a mark on the aluminum collar next to the adjustment ring with a Sharpie. Not the perfect arrangement, but still much easier to read than the built in reference mark. The sharpie ink can be removed with with tiny bit of alcohol.
Yeah I taped a guide on haha
You grind all the way down to 11? Did adjust your springs when you got your grinder? After I adjusted the springs on I’m sitting around 22-23 and getting great shots
It's gonna be slightly different on each grinder, and different with each bean. I tend to use a lot of light roasts so I generally have to grind finer 😉
Hello, is it suitable for brewing filtered coffee in 1 liter of water 10 times in 1 day, 60 gr of coffee? Will I have problems? I own a boutique mini coffee shop. Thank you
I don't really know about longevity, but with that kind of volume ~600g per day I don't think it's going to have a bad effect. You might just need to replace the burrs every few years 😅
I grind most of my medium and medium light roastst around 5-8. And never ground beyond that. I use the stock steel burrs, and alliggned them very well. Retention is almost zero, but espresso range is very small.
Oh interesting, on mine the espresso range is great! Usually around 15 ±5 and the burrs touch at about 3 or 4. I guess every grinder is slightly different. At what number do the burrs touch?
Great video! Thanks for the update on James Hoffmann's review!
A couple questions for you, if by chance you get to read my comment:
- How did you get the grinder shipped to Japan? Did you have any troubles with that?
- Do you know of differences between the old and revised versions of the product that would make it easy to identify online? (Would like to avoid buying the old one!)
- Have you tried any of the 3D printed enhancements which Hoffmann seems to say would enhance usability quite a bit?
By the way, it took me about 20 seconds to guess that you live in Japan too: the wallpaper at 0:20 is so typical! :D
Hey David, thanks for the comment and I hope you're enjoying Japan as well. I got the DF64 from Joe at EspressoOutlet (link in the description) and reached out to him directly to ship to Japan. Might be harder or more expensive now because of oil prices and Ukraine stuff, but it's better than trying to go through a Japanese importer who will double (or more) the price. He definitely has the most up-to-date one on the website and they're also selling an e version which has a hopper and electric dosing mechanism.
I haven't tried any of the 3D printed upgrades, but would like to see more of them if I had access to 3d printer 😅
I did a few mods to mine and got the retention/exchange down to
Yeah, I love this grinder and my complaints are minor compared to the outstanding espresso I get. How much prefer the flavour coming off of flat burrs
I was wondering if u would pick that ginder of Rancilio Rocky Doserless Grinder. I'm been wanting to get my first exposso set up for yrs. But with so many options ... I always end up just overwhelmed becuase I really want something that is great quality .
The rocky used to be a good option, but there are much better options at that price range now. Even £200-400 range there are some really competitive grinders like the DF64 and SK40
Do you think it's practical to switch settings daily on the DF64, between a dialed-in espresso setting and something else (maybe another espresso setting, or filter)?
Asking because right now I'm using one grinder per method/coffee, my main espresso grinder being an on-demand grinder with significant retention. And I wonder if a DF64 would be convenient as a replacement for multiple grinders, assuming I'd then switch settings 2-3 times each day.
I change mine a lot and have no problems. It's near zero retention and I haven't had any problems switching (that's why I keep my notebook with espresso grind settings and switching to and from is no problem at all).
@@homecafecharlie Thanks!
For keeping things clean, you can get a cheap 3d printed mod that holds the cup closer to the spout, so when using the bellows, the coffee doesn't blow out around the cup as much. Also using a funnel if you grind into the portafiler is helpful, if you have something the right size. With my Specialiata the funnel didn't fit well with the forks, so I removed the forks and just held the portafilter with funnel and that works just fine, it should work with this one too, it's about the same or faster grind speed, so it's not like you're holding it for very long.
The 1zpresso K plus hand grinder actually has some retention, and I found it can be messy to get it off sometimes! Coffee sticks to the bottom part around the burrs instead of falling into the cup, I think you had reviewed that one before.
I never really minded the dial indicator issue that much, but I suppose if your going back and forth to different brew methods and want to go back precisely it would be an annoyance. Lots of people are using 3d printed dial indicator pointers for that as well.
Yeah I feel like this grinder is built with modders in mind. I don't 3d print anything but I'm sure I could do more fun coffee stuff if I picked one up.
@@homecafecharlie people are 3d printing stuff for lots of applications. It's pretty neat. I had a 3d printed single dosing hopper for my Specialita before I had a DF64.
I found a local guy that does prints cheap. The only issue is whether or not 3d printed plastic is really good safe but something like a cup holder or dial pointer shouldn't be an issue. Not sure I'd trust something like a 3d printed declumper (which also exists for this grinder).
I had heaps (excuse the pun) of retention issues on the 1ZPresso K-Plus until I started to use the RDT. Now I have hardly any retention(although still have to use the firm brush to clean up directly where the burrs meet on the underside of the grinder).
@@HannesNitzsche I remember reading or hearing 1zPresso doesn't recommend RDT, are the burrs holding up alright? Not getting rusty or anything? :o
@@BensCoffeeRants no problem at all to be honest. I only give it a quick spritz. Have been doing this for around 3 months now and haven’t noticed any discolouration or signs of rust on the burrs. I hadn’t heard that they specifically recommend not to RDT. I will certainly keep an eye on it but I don’t think it will do much damage. Perhaps it’s just a COA on 1ZPresso’s behalf so that they’re not liable should anything ever happen?
Hi Charlie, I’m just in the newbie research stage. Between the DF64 and Niche Zero, I've heard that the DF64 imparts greater clarity and fruity notes while the Niche Zero contributes to a richer, more chocolatey profile. Would you agree with that assessment (assuming you have some experience with both grinders)?
Secondly, I’ve watched videos on different lever machines but I’m still confused about the choice between fully manual and spring lever. From what I understand, manuals like the Robot give you control over temperature, pressure, and length of pull. But in the end, will that give me a better espresso than a spring version of the Odyssey Argos or is it simply an experiential preference?
I'm hoping to get my hands on an Odyssey Argos as well for a review. It looks like a really fantastic machine. It's a proper espresso machine as opposed to something like the cafelat Robot or the Flair which can't steam milk.
As for the grinders, that's more or less correct. Conical shaped burrs tend to have a more bimodal distribution, which leads to less clarity but more texture. I like my DF64 a lot, and I've had some really amazing espresso from it. If you get a chance to try them out before you buy, you can tell the difference.
@@homecafecharlie I’d be interested in hearing your review of the Odyssey Argos. It seems like they’re packing a lot of features into the Argos at a reasonable price and I’d like to know what compromises had to be made. So which version would you prefer and why - the manual, 6 bar spring, or 9 bar spring? Please correct me if I’m wrong, but my understanding is the 64mm SSP High Uniformity burrs impart a good balance between clarity and texture.
In my experience, the best grinder in this price range is a second-hand unit acquired from someone upgrading to a Niche. :D
😂
Well my Eureka is 33% less where I live and the espresso for me is far more enjoyable then the stock DF64. I have the new version and the retention is substantial, about 1.5g-1.7g stuck in the chute, I also have grinds build up above the grounds wipers (Don't know the correct name) in the grinds chamber. I was also having a plugged chute 1 out of 3 shots where I could not bellow at all, so bellowing while you grind does help this. I replaced the de-clumper with a home made one and retention is very low, static is still not the best but shots are better. Right now this won't replace my Eureka but maybe SSP burrs will change that. Ever-ones palette is different but be prepared to modify and upgrade to get the best out of this grinder. You can check out the Blue Bird Roastery review, he uses terms like the grind is pretty good and I don't think the new de-clumper has solved the issue. If they move the notches to the bottom and the numbers to the beveled edge that would help.
I've never tried a Eureka but would love to give one a go sometime. Espresso stuff is expensive and this channel doesn't really make much money yet.
@@homecafecharlie For sure, costs are crazy. This afternoon I was playing with my Breville Dose Control grinder into the Eureka to get an idea of what the Versalab dual burr grinder would be like. Preliminary tests looked better then I thought so will try some good beans in the morning. What fun. Best of luck with your channel!
Hey Charlie and coffee people 🙂 I know there’s lots of mods out there for the DF64. With the new version, do you feel those mods are necessary anymore? If so, what would you recommend upgrading (besides the burrs)?
Great question. Lots of people I know love their mods. I don't have a 3D printer but there are a lot of great mods I would want to use. Probably the main one would be an angled cup holder so you get less spray over the edge when you blow the grinds out. It's very little but some does blow up. Also maybe a pointer for where the grind setting is. I fixed it with a bit of paper and tape, but the new DF83 has a nice metal ring pointer on it that I think was inspired by a DF64 mod 😎
Quality of video production has improved from previous ones!! To the point, informative and entertaining :) after Hoffman video I removed DF64 from my top picks but after yours definitely considering it again. Thank you !! :) can you do a DF64 vs lagom mini showdown .. or give your thoughts on the lagom mini :)
Thanks so much for your nice comment! I don't know if I can do too many comparisons. A lot of other coffee people on UA-cam own coffee companies and I'm just a dude who is doing this for fun, I make almost 0 money from YT and can't afford $500+ grinders 2x a month for reviews lol. But I have a lot of fun stuff planned to talk about brewing and latte art 😎
@@homecafecharlie no worries :) if ever you do come across trying the lagom mini your thoughts would be appreciated. By all means keep being the guy who is doing this for fun - it’s shown and felt from your videos. :)
Hey Charlie,
Thank you for the informative video, I been looking to get a “real” grinder as of late. And I’m debating between this (DF64), Niche, or wait and back Kopi Deva (which I believe you’re the only one on UA-cam with a video out).
How would you say the Kopi Deva prototype compares to the DF64? What would you keep?
The Kopi Deva and DF64 are both 64mm flat burrs, so very similar in performance, so it depends more on how it looks for you. The Niche is a different kind of machine, and I would really like to try one. My sister has one in the UK so I will try it out next time I go. I don't have the money some other coffee video makers have to buy tons of gear haha
Well it's officially on my future upgrade list. Very informative and fun review.
I got on a Baratza Vario train a few months ago with a whole slew of upgrades lined up for the future. I can't seem to find any major differences between DF64 and Vario to affect a purchase decision. They are both in a relatively similar price range, espresso quality, workflow, etc. Perhaps, upgradability and customer service would be the stronger side for Vario. What do you think?
I've never tried a Vario. DF64 has much bigger burrs and single dose, but the Vario looks great too. If I get a chance to try one maybe I'll do a comparison video (maybe)
@@homecafecharlie yeah, that’s pretty cool. I’ve modded my vario with a few accessories: a stand to accommodate a dosing cup (no coffee grinds spillage btw ;) ) and a single dose hopper with a lid (all 3D printed from Thingiverse). I was mostly inspired by Lance Hedrick’s video on Vario and also got bellows for it from Amazon. It’s probably a good option for those who enjoy the freedom to upgrade their coffee equipment. I’ll probably buy stainless steel burrs next for it, but the coffee is already so much more enjoyable even with ceramic burrs, then what cheaper grinders can offer.
About 10mm. And the DF64 is designed for single dosing.
Based on the number of mods needed on the original DF64 and the potential cost of these I ordered the Kopi Diva and I am waiting eagerly fir delivery, you have used them both so I would welcome your comparison of the 2 grinders.
I wish I still had the Deva to do the comparison but I had to send it back after the review. If I get another chance to play with one I'd love to compare, since they are both great flat burr grinders under $1000
No mods are ‘needed’, though there are options if you want to. My only mods are anti-popcorn (debatable if it does much) and a dial indicator.
@@Pdubbcooking from my viewing of the original the anti clumping filter needs replacing, which needed the dismantling of the grinder, it really needs the pointer ring to more accurately set the grind setting and the forks that held the grinds catcher/portafilter were not tight enough to hold a portafilter without it vibrating loose, so I chose to take a gamble and order the Diva rather than wait for a Niche or get the DF64 and do the mods, I also think for the money the potential of the Diva with rechargeable battery and variable rpm make it a great value grinder compared to the Niche and DF64. I thin if I'd bought the DF64 I would have been happy but, I am happy with mu decision so far, but who know what it will be like when it's finally here next year
I have an Ode with sweet cast SSP burrs and a niche for espresso but this grinder has always intrigued me.
Nice setup!
Hey, didn't know you were in Japan! Are you in Kansai?
I'm in Tokyo!
@@homecafecharlie Ah, darn! Do you have any good website or idea on how to get cheaper used coffee equipment here? Sometimes there's good deals on Mercari but most of the time people are charging so much. Or a good way to get cheaper prices in general?
I was apprehensive until the R2D2 comparison. That sold me.
😍
You're in Japan? Any issues with the US model, given that electricity runs at 100v/50-60hz?
(I always found it weird that half of Japan operates at 60hz while the other half 50hz.)
Different voltage just affects the speed so it might be a bit slower, but works fine for me!
This is actually funny! How does one tell if you are ordering one online whether it's the new updated version or not...
I think any place you order from should be the new one, as I think James Hoffman's review was of a pre-production model
Can you make a mark closer to the adjustment ring? Like correction fluid or a white marker? Maybe painters tape and a sharpie if you don't want to mar the aesthetics permanently?
I thought about it but scared I would mess it up and have to look at my mistake for a long time haha
@@homecafecharlie painters tape and a marker then.
What sifter screens did you use? How long did you sift? I ask because the 200um screen is really tough to sift with unless you use something to help push the grounds through.
I used the 200 and 300uq. Sifted for a LONG time and tapped it on the table a lot.
@@homecafecharlie good stuff Charlie! I liked the review.
Ordered mine, now hopefully it would be here this week! Can’t afford the niche coz its almost triple priced here, and u’ll be very lucky if u can get your hand on 1.
Imagine if Hoffman did an DF64 Vs Eureka Oro Single Doser... I think he's involved with that company so he's not going to do that, but at this point I think he would have more complaints about the Oro than the DF64 in its current state anyway. Hopefully they resolve the issues.
I'd love to see that comparison!
It was between this and the Kopi Deva for me but I ultimately went for the Deva. What are your conclusions between the two? It’ll be replacing my Niche potentially.
I'd be really interested to see a review of the Urbanic 080 and how that compares with 60mm burrs vs the df64, niche zero, etc.
That's very interesting that you would upgrade from the Niche to something that I would have thought was in a similar range. Next step up for you would be something like the Monolith haha
@@homecafecharlie Totally 🤣 It’s more a move to the flat burr world and see if that makes any real difference. Not a massive fan of the niche for filter coffee either.
Hi Charlie, Hoffman was using Decent which I believe has at least a short preinfisuon which requires finer grind setting;) that might be reason why he went too fine compared to you.
Very possible!
Hi, you can confirm that you cannot find the same or better grinds for all uses, under this price?
There are new coffee grinders coming out all the time, but the DF64 is still a top performer for the price. I think it's even cheaper now!
I would like to know what you think about the df64 vs the kopi ( I know they are not the same but I am curious about the noise difference between the 2)
Very similar noise levels and performance. I didn't have them both at the same time, so it's hard to tell the difference. Both of them make fantastic espresso so I guess it mostly depends on which design you prefer
Great video. Thanks.
Is there a chance to get a review of the Lagom P 64?
Oh if I can get my hands on one, maybe ;)
I personally think James did a disservice in his review of the DF 64. His reviews of late seem to be product placement. Not that the DF 64 is the godsend of flat burrs. But why even compare to the Niche. The Niche is killing itself in my opinion by not being able to supply and the actual price you have to pay for it.
I think the comparison with the niche is natural at this price point, but you're right that Niche has really failed to meet demand for years now, and they need to step up their supply chain game and deal with scalpers. Personally I think the DF64 is a fantastic grinder, and am still very happy with it
I’m not that impressed by the D64 I have. I purchased it from Bella barista in the UK, in April. I’m finding I need to grind around 5 or less for espresso with medium roasts. I’ve checked alignment and have found it to be fine. And, as I also have 2-3 beans on the go at once and change through them daily; it’s virtually impossible to get a consistent result after moving the dial to the last known good value for the variety of coffee. And that’s with running a dose through and throwing it out to flush out remnants of previous grinds. I need something more consistent for my needs, so I’ll step up to something that’s known for it.
Wait so the updated version is a font change and ground retention redesign that doesn't help much. How about eureka? there is always the silenzio/manuale other than the specialita
I'd love to try out a Eureka sometime!
Do you use this for filter coffee, and would you recommend it for someone who only makes filter coffee, not espresso?
Being flat burrs, it's very consistent and would make a good pour over. However, I can't attest to the taste of filter myself as I don't make filter coffee much. I'm an espresso guy 😁
How does this compare to the Kopi Deva grinder?
Very similar in terms of performance, so I think it's mostly down to looks and your preference. I hope I can get them side by side when the Deva is finally out
Amazing video Charlie!!!!!
Every grinder has its own specs and the df64 is really good grinder if you are into flat burrs.
Always enjoy your vids and reviews Charlie! This is now at the top of my list for single dose grinders 👍
Thank you!
It still needs a V2. I have the Eureka Oro Mignon XL, but that too isn't perfect and you can forget using it for pourovers AND espresso .. Its dialing system needs a revamp.
Holding out hope that I can grab a Lagom P64 soon.
I'd love to try one, but for now I'm so happy with my DF64
The Mk4 has a pointer and plastic clump thing so most things fixed. There is the Gen 2, but with the drop in price of the old one, its even more of a bargen.
I love mine! Have the ssp hu burrs. Embarrassingly, I just ordered a second one with an ssp unimodal burr set. For the price of one higher end grinder, I get the best of both worlds. Hoping my wife doesn't notice! With a few simple mods i have no mess, easy dialing in ... basically every down side handled.
I hope your wife knows she can't come between a man and his toys 🤣
@@homecafecharlie shhhhhhh
What burrs are you using ?
These are the stock burrs
There wasn't really much 'issues' with the original version, I think they just updated the font on top and the clump crusher to have 2 thinner silicon flaps vs one thick one. I have one of the original ones I think with the original clump buster (unless it has the older top but the updated clump crusher) and I can barely tell the difference. One thing in the Hoffman video was for coarser grinding it appeared to be quite a static-y mess, I do find for coarser grinding you do get some more static /chaff attracted to the spout, but it's not nearly as bad as in his video, others have said the same. RDT (Spraying the coffee with a misting of water before grinding) should help. For espresso grind sizes the static / chaff doesn't seem to be a problem. Funny that Hoffman never really complained much in his Monolith video about having to use RDT, from my experience the Monolith Flat at least (with Shuriken LM Burrs) has much worse static since there's no clump crusher (which also prevents static).
Yeah I don't really need to RDT for espresso, and I rarely do pour over so it suits me well :D
What blade does it ship with? Does the newer version ship with SSP blade?
Not sure about the newer version but I'm sure that before the burrs had a stock and then you could pay more for SSP high uniformity burrs. I didn't notice any real difference in flavour with the high uniformity burrs...
Hey Charlie, In like your content since a long while and as many i know and respect Hoffmann, but you know... You don't need the click bait reference, the title and the differences with Hoffmann are fair but a little forced, of course you should mention it, but IMHO ditch the clickbaits in the future and grow by your own strengths, you have more than plenty
Thank you Felipe for your belief in my ability. It's not something I plan to do again, but I thought about this video a lot and for me, adding yet another DF64 review to UA-cam wasn't only a bad strategy, it wouldn't be useful or interesting. The main thing I thought was that Hoffmann had a very definitive review on an earlier version, so the main point of this was to tell people who saw his review and decided not to get a DF64 because he was so negative about it, to reconsider.
I'm glad you like my videos and I hope you'll come back for the next one where I won't even mention Hoffmann once! 😀
@@homecafecharlie believe me i do since a while and i really enjoy the content, the shorter format was will archieved too
@@Snidel this title was the reason I clicked on the video. Opinions are subjective and I would not agree with you. Click bait is okay as long as the content meets viewer’s expectations. Sometimes it can be hard to retain your authenticity if people are telling you what they want you to do left and right. Maybe if it’s a problem for most, then it would be a good point to consider. I enjoyed the title and the content :)
@@ItsNITREX Im not saying clickbait doesnt work, as Veritasium already addressed in their video about how clickbait is irrationally effective (ua-cam.com/video/S2xHZPH5Sng/v-deo.html ) if I did my comment it's because i don't think it matches Charlie's style and of course it's his channel and he can do whatever he likes, i just don't think it pays off in the long run (refer to the above video) and he just doesn't need it. Ion a second train of thoughts, i will go always for what is right now than for what is convenient, since the title suggests there could be some mistakes on Hoffmann's review to then say hey we reviewed different versions and of course the idea is to attract more viewers even at the expanse of leaving seeds of doubts onto another person's work for non fair reasons (since they reviewed different versions) i don't think Charlie did it in purpose, but it's an outcome, again Charlie has good enough content to stand by his own merits, he doesn't need this kind of techniques to go further
Love the shorter format Charlie. And, it’s gotta be R2D2.
R2D2 FTW! ❤
I don’t know how long you have had this grinder but I suggest you review it after having and using it for a couple of month. Although they have changed the silicone declumper to a thinner one it still has issues with clogging. You do need to clean it very frequently or you will have increase clogging in the chute.
Once it starts clogging up you will find an increase of the fins that the DF64 produces.
That does not make it a bad grinder, not at all.
Hoffmann never said it was a bad grinder , to the contrary. However, he said it’s not the right grinder for someone that is not willing to tinker with the grinder out of the box. Because it’s not perfect out of the box but it’s a good grinder for the price.
I agree with Hoffmann.
I might revisit it if my experience changes in the future. I've had it maybe 2 months and using it every day has been great. Hoffman didn't say it was terrible or anything, but he did say a LOT of negative stuff about it that is no longer true of the current retail version, so I hope that people seeing this will reconsider it since the niche sells out in seconds when they have new ones out 😅
@@homecafecharlie I have both the Niche and the DF64. I also upgraded the DF64 with the SSP Hight Uniformity Burrs. I like the DF64 but if I had to keep only one of them I would keep the Niche. I find the Niche is better finished out if the box than the DF64.
However, I intend on keeping both because they complement each other.
@@EdGodoyPlana Yeah I wish I had the money to really get into the world of grinders and try out more of them. So far I've really fallen in love with flat burr grinders like the Kopi Deva and this one (the only ones I have tried). They are both fun to use and produce noticeably better espresso!
I’ve had mine since the start of July. I haven’t had this clogging issue. How long does it take??
The R2D2 short reall made me laugh!
I didn't like the looks of the old Version but this one looks great
Hehe I wonder if someone is making R2D2 stickers to adorn this grinder. Maybe I should make that! 🤣
For this price, I won't complaint lol
*Hoffmann
😲 Thank you. Fixed it. Rookie mistake...
charming
I like I like James Hoffman but he's a bit of a coffee snob. But that's okay I still like him
Me too. He really knows his stuff and I learn a lot from him. I'm not trying to be the next James Hoffman, just wanna share my nerdy espresso love 😍
effective five mins like the topic
this is insane
🤪
Eh; still glad I got a Niche.
Honk 😂
I have not had coffee on the table with my Vario home, Wilfa Uniform or Ode. So, that’s not acceptable.