Atheist Debates - Debate Review - Evidence for God w/ Howard Stirrup
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- Опубліковано 8 сер 2024
- The only debate I've ever walked out of. I would have titled this "I ran away from a debate!!" if I cared about Clickbait - but I don't. This debate shouldn't have happened...and should not happen again.
I popped in in the middle of Howard’s opening ramble. It was legitimately the most insane thing I’ve ever seen
Valentine type heart, Or anatomically correct?@@pakoochavo8696
This might be why, 3% of the population apparently en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizotypal_personality_disorder
I hope he never sees the image of Jesus in a penis shaped rock.
Yeah...I didn't know whether to laugh or to cry.
At the end he said" i am not here to debate, i am hre to get my message out". That says all you need to know. It is truly a shame that you are asked to debate these people. You are an exellent debater and deserve to have an opponent worthy of your time.
Doesn't surprise me, I couldn't last that long I turned off long before that. But.. makes sense really.
@@lindalobstadefendaSame here
If someone can't even defend their own reasoning why do they deserve to be taken seriously
@@raya.p.l5919 you need to learn how to spell before making silly claims.
It's "and" not "an"!
Also, it's "their" and not "there". When you type "there" it means a place, like, "over there"!
@@MaffeyZilog level 10 projecting thought an memory who needs yr spells. U know each letter is a symbol. Same with numbers. Why do u think someone who starts with a j or a d basically has the same energy
Anyhow for yr reply. Another reason I don't care is for u kind
U rocket worshipers. To reply
U an all who read will receive Jesus healing energy all old aches and pains will be washed away. Takes 30 minutes best to relax and shut yr eyes. Also 11 07 eastren night level 1 portion of youth longevity digestion an self beauty Jesus energy wash. Negative energy will creep out yr feet tell it's time. Or I'm lying an yr closest friends won't experience it to.
@@MaffeyZilog don't think the Illuminati aka fallen angels aliens NASA reptiles liked that last remark. Ohh well my song for the fallen Angels is I don't want to die by Hollywood undead. An the five that play after. The rest after that are for the disturbed black sheep
Cracker out
Howard is definitely a poster child for the saying "if you open your mind too much your brain falls out"
Ironically I don't think you could find a person more closed off to any alternative explanations for reality
"...off the edge of the flat Earth!"
Somehow they never seem to open it wide enough to grasp the basics of logic and science.
I'm pretty sure he's mentally ill.
@@HisZotness I think he is just high on is own farts and self-importance.
Kudos for getting up and walking out, Matt. Modern Day Debates should be ashamed of themselves for not vetting your debate opponent.
Howard has debated on MDD quite a few times. As far as they're concerned, Howard was vetted. Of course that doesn't mean it wasn't absolutely disgraceful.
James doesn't care. He'll platform nazis and all types of batshittery because that's what alot of people want to see unfortunately.
@@Nubifier Has he? My apologies, I must have missed those ‘debates’. Shame on MDD for letting him back on then, especially against someone as serious and prepared as Matt.
@@norcodaev Yeah, unfortunately MDD seems to be taking anyone who's willing to speak these days. I used to enjoy their debates most of the time, but recently it feels like they're trying to cash in on the clicks of insane topics.
@@Nubifier Who needs lobotomies if there's the MDD comment section to read through?
"As soon as you discard scientific rigor, you're no longer a mathematician; you're a numerologist." - Sol Robeson
Good quote, especially since Howard said that a "mathematician friend" sent him that "proof" involving π
Why do atheists discard scientific rigor in favor of science fiction?
It would be a fine quote with the word "scientific" taken out. The reason why is that mathematical rigor and scientific rigor are both very important but very distinct things.
Science is an EMPIRICAL methodology which uses INDUCTIVE REASONING to arrive at coherent explanations which are a good fit to the available data about what we presume is an objective physical reality. These explanations are always PROVISIONAL, subject to being challenged by further data. So SCIENTIFIC RIGOR refers to how we navigate our way through these constraints on investigating and understanding the physical world.
This kind of rigor is necessary and valuable in science, but useless in mathematics. We have a different kind of rigor in mathematics, which relies on the development of AXIOMATIC FORMALISMS using DEDUCTIVE REASONING. We develop THEOREMS which are justified by means of PROOFS, neither of which have any existence in science. On the other hand, mathematics is uninterested in - and utterly unaffected by - physical reality.
So I hope that you can now see how the quote, as written, is utterly dreadful, but also how it can be made quite valid, by application of a very small measure of ... guess what? Mathematical rigor.
Never expected you to walk out of a debate, but damn if I’m not glad you did. I listen to a lot of your debates while driving as I’m a FedEx driver. So I tend to space out and it becomes white noise here and there. This debate I kept dialing back in when he said the most batshit things. I’m glad you left. The fact MDD platforms him is, like another commentor in the debate said, unethical. Just ridiculous.
I can only hope that Matt never does another MDD "debate" as I have already marked the channel as "do not recommend". It's just a dumpster fire chasing zealot platformer for profit.
Unfortunately they've had him and people like him on multiple times. They knew what Howard was/how he debated and still have him on. That's says a lot about MDD
@@IRGeamer Matt said he was done after the nonsense at Debate Con
If you see a car crash victim with a mangled leg you don't have to be a doctor to see that they need help.
Likewise, you don't have to be a psychologist or therapist or neurologist to see Howard needs help.
That's not a good analogy. Mental health issues are far more complex and difficult to diagnose than an injury that obviously is causing somebody great pain.
If Howard does need psychiatric help, it's not helpful for anybody to say "get some help".
Calling somebody with mental health issues "crazy", especially if they are actually detached from reality in some way (and even if you don't literally use the word "crazy"), is a terrible thing to do because they're still people, and they're just as negatively affected by having what seems like reality to them called a delusion by other people.
The most helpful thing to do is to not engage with them.
This was such a nightmare, Matt. I literally stood up and clapped my hands when you walked out. What a tragedy.
Yeah I was on top of a roof and had to turn it off cause the ridiculousness was making it dangerous to work , I must’ve left five minutes before it ended
Me too
@@Chief-Solarize lol.
@@Chief-Solarizeit’s like he was expecting an honest conversation with a religious. Silly of him to expect the bare minimum.
@@Chief-Solarize wrote "Matt is a quitter. He is too accustomed to being able to hang up on people." Yet Matt doesn't hang up on *_everyone._* The solution is to be someone *_worth_* not hanging-up on. So many fail this important test.
I could hardly believe what he was saying and I thought he must be trolling. You were so right to walk out
Gives a whole new meaning to "God hardened their hearts."
I feel like being a flat-earther should disqualify someone from being involved in anything approaching a serious conversation right off the bat. The vast conspiracies required for someone to believe in young-earth creationism are bad enough...but outright denying something that can be demonstrated to children in grade school? Nah, man.
When I heard that Matt walked out of a debate my initial thought was that it is a bad look to walk out because it gives your opponent the opportunity to claim victory…
Then I watched the debate… Matt was completely correct to leave
I'm literally done with MDD after this one. When you're platforming these types, it's not debate its just clickbait. I can't believe after everything we've been through there, we'd match this guy up with Matt. It wouldn't take 5 seconds to know this conversation would be pointless.
Rubbernecking trainwrecks isn't helping anybody but MDD.
They absolutely dropped the ball here, hopeless.
Fair point. They have some truly despicable people on lately. But on the other hand Matt should have probably looked into the people that want to debate him, like he said in this video. With Howard it also takes like 20 seconds to realize it's probably not worth your time.
To be frank, it isn't just the people, also the topics. These would be modern-day debates somewhere in the middle ages (quite literally often).
The majority of debates are on fairly silly topics that are not at all interesting from a rational standpoint. Flat earth, existence of god, numerology. They are mostly interesting from a cultural perspective, how detached people can get from reality and still 'flourish'. I would welcome debates about debatable views, like abortion, the Ukrain or Gaza war, the effect of Trump on the world, transgenders in sport, the nature of consciousness, you name it. But not on that channel. I watch it for comedic purposes usually.
@@landsgevaer I absolutely agree. But they claim they want to include everyone. And take on all topics. But imo there are way too many debates on mdd that shouldn't even be debated these days. It's absurd. I never thought about that name tbh. It is quite ironic yeah. 😅
I think the same about this Andrew guy they keep bringing on. He's horribly bad faith and just bullies whoever he's talking to. I will not watch any debate that man is a part of. It makes me feel sick to my stomach to watch him treat people the way he does. And he's given a platform and encouraged! I just can't with MDD
Matt you handled things beautifully (I say this as a retired academic who witnessed too many bad debates over the years as well). That situation with Howard was so painful to observe, and I applaud you for making an honest effort to engage. You were respectful as well even though he attempted to focus on you personally not the debate topic(s) (typical poisoning of the well). You stayed for over an hour, and I think it was more than clear that Howard was not discussing the debate topics, and that Howard should not be plat formed by MDD as there are very serious issues there (it’s not fair - I don’t think Howard is aware of how delusional his claims are and grasping basic concepts was a challenge for him - this was depressing)
Unfortunately MDD has had him on multiple times. Its been their model for a while to have people like him on and I am not sure the motivation
I'm done with MDD. If this is what passes for what is supposed to be reasonable debate of modern times then it's no wonder people like Trump are getting elected.
@@FumetsuGolf Same. This isn't neutrality, it's... idiocy? Bordering on exploiting mentally ill people? Deliberately spreading misinformation?
I wondered, "why hearts?". Is there another stream somewhere that's full of fossilized gallbladders?
Or fossilized genitals
But why male models?
As I understand it he was talking about this ❤ shape. The rocks resemble cartoony hearts. Hope I'm wrong and it's not that absurd but it sure did seem that way to me.
@@adako25 No, he mean anatomically correct heart shapes. It's his belief those are actual once-beating hearts, not the idealized shape.
Bravo on providing the kindest, most charitable viewing of the interaction and your interlocutor. It’s so easy to get caught up in the moment, to get fired up, to lose sight of consideration even when the person your dialoguing with doesn’t adhere to the same standard, but your display of patience in the moment and willingness to reflect in such a thoughtful fashion afterwards are just two of many, many reasons I am such a huge fan of your work. Thank you so much for what you do and how you do it!
You should probably vet your opponents on MDD. They platform awful people and some folk who could be mentally ill.
I hope Modern Day Debates also takes at least a little (but more fairly a lot) of responsibility for allowing the debate to happen. My jaw dropped when he claimed heart shaped rocks were proof because they were ACTUAL hearts. And the red flag of "many people are starting to say." That's almost a full on code word for conspiracy theories.
The "many people..." kinda argument is so common among people with cognitive biased or sufferers of the dunning-krueger... Whenever someone tell me "more and more people doubt X" I know they have done 0 research on the topic.
A ♥shaped rock is not shaped like a 🫀
@MasterCedar yeah I mean like how could they miss that? Very strange
@@zapkvr miss that? Howard has been on before making the same claims
Matt, I am generally upset that this happened to you. What an absolute waste of time.
Genuinely* I think you mean.
I think the responsible thing for the community to do is to just stop watching MDD until they come out and say they'll do a better job of vettting their own debaters. Matt isnt the one responsible for vetting the people who show up on MDD. The people that run that platform are the ones who should be held responsible.
Big names in the athiest community should also collectively call out MDD and not do any debates on their click-bait platform anymore.
"until they come out and say they'll do a better job of vettting their own debaters"
It's far too late for that to be enough for me. They obviously are dumpster fire chasing for views by platforming delusional zealots and hateful bigots.
Warning rocket worshipers I found God an the devil then ripped there souls out. Finally proof ❤ warning intense ❤ all are allowed
Last 3 days. Jesus power starts now....yr soul is waiting for you
Years ago, I called out MDD for being a sleazy forum that allows anyone of any skill level to “duke it out” even if they’re clueless about debating or the topic, because all they’re after is that Superchat income. I am banned from commenting now. 😂
@@primordial82 what big names? I can't think of anyone big who's been on recently but Matt and AronRa
I am amazed you lasted as long as you did.
Since your debate w Howard, the algorithm has put some of his previous debates in my feed. HFS! The young earth nonsense, the denial that dinosaurs existed, and he brings up the "heart shaped rocks" in all of them before delving into any and every conspiracy theory you can imagine. 😂
No, you were totaly right , he needs help... I was actualy interested in debate after while as it went to crazy levels so i was hoping for some fun, but it went to absolute madness levels after that and it felt like it was impossible to have any real discussion with him. So you did good to just end it.
MDD has a very laissez-faire, brain-dead way of hosting debates. There's no moderation at all. No attempt to build a productive and coherent exchange of ideas. So many of their 'debates' are just personal attacks. Hell, literally in their most recent debate, one of the debators spent the entire debate calling their opponent a whore and nothing was done about it. Absurd
It's just dumpster fire chasing for views by platforming delusional zealots and hateful bigots.
"Do not recommend channel."
It's so strange that mdd thinks moderation is censorship.
You could shine a light through Howard's ears
Glad u walked out. That was ridiculous.
I bet it went something like this from The Simpsons...
Judge Schneider: Do you have any evidence at all?”
Lionel Hutz: “Well, your honor, we've got plenty of hearsay and conjecture. Those are 'kinds' of evidence.”
I would say his arguments didn't rise to the standard of hearsay and or conjecture.
"Modern day debates" just made their platform a complete joke. There have been lots of questionable debaters before too, but this was off the charts crazy. No serious debater should even consider taking part in anything on that platform again.
"Do not recommend channel."
Unfortunately, all things considered, their name is apt.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure soft tissue like hearts don't petrify or fossilize like that. It also begs the question, what other body parts got petrified in the "flood?" Why don't we find skulls or femurs in abundance at the surface level?
There’s been 3 cases I believe where it did petrify, but not alone this was a structure found within a larger fossil , verify me but I believe they’ve actually found one with dna ( I might be wrong about the dna verify )
Or livers or brains or kidneys or bladders or lungs or any organs whatsoever…I think Howard believes that stones looking like hearts (I had a feeling he was talking about cartoon hearts more than real hearts) is some sort of divine “clue” that means something. Sorry to say this but this is what delusional thinking can become. This is someone swimming (rather - drowning) in symbolism - not unlike the ways in which Jordan Peterson makes wild claims about “symbols” in nature - for example he states that snakes coil around each other during mating to look like the dna double helix (he said this to Dawkins - Dawkins looked like “what?” and told him he was drowning in symbolism). I blame MDD for not screening Howard - just minimally - IF they care about debates and not just clown show clickbait they should be more careful. It’s frustrating and unfair to legit interlocutors.
I found God an the devil then ripped there souls out. Finally proof ❤ warning intense ❤ all are allowed
Last 3 days. Jesus power starts now....
@@raya.p.l5919 Could you put that in English? It was just words put together that sound like they could mean something, but don't.
@@brianmonks8657 for your reply an all who reads. Will receive Jesus healing energy all old aches and pains will be washed away. Takes 30 minutes best to relax and shut yr eyes. Also 11 07 eastren tonight level 1 portion of youth longevity digestion an self beauty Jesus energy wash. Negative energy will creep out yr feet tell it's time. When we die our spirits know all so faith being the most powerful energy in the universe has no cause. Once you experience Jesus power u will be like a spirit that knows all. The new rule is once u know u better grow.
Or I'm lying an yr closest friends won't experience it to
I’ve listened to several debates involving Howard. Each one has been a dumpster fire, by turns hilarious and disturbing and always completely ludicrous. The first time I heard him....I was driving....I had to pull over because I was laughing too hard.
The problem with MDD is that they seem like they’re pitching for the dumpster fires, because they get buzz and views and create conversation. The moderation is generally terrible, if the mods even bother at all, and the guests they get in are often fringe even among the fringes. The mods don’t seem to do anything about how bad it gets.
Tbh I’m surprised and a little impressed that Matt stuck with it for an hour. Howard is so awful and his arguments are so preposterous that having him on was an insult to Matts time, and that of the audience.
I was excited when MDD was first starting out, but I haven't been able to watch it for a looooooong time now because of the way it's run/modded.
I'm not surprised to see the Howard "debated" Tjump earlier this year, and the comment sections are very similar.
"Do not recommend channel." MDD
Honestly glad that you pulled a Mclatchie on this one. I agree that you can't or shouldn't diagnose Howard from a far. But for similar reasons, its never a good idea to accept a fight challenge from an eight year old.
You're right that platforming these unhinged individuals is a huge issue. I'm glad you are putting more weight into vetting future debate opponents. Debates like these recent ones is going to cause way more harm than good.
Howard isn't convincing anybody of anything. Loosen up your grip on those pearls and let people have a laugh.
@@Breadbored. never underestimate human stupidity.
@@zpRaon Uh huh.... You enjoy living in that world full of paranoid delusions. You're as bad as Howard, lmao.
@@Breadbored. If Howard could've gotten convinced of those things, who's to say nobody else could become convinced of those things too?
Unfortunately Matt, that’s not the first time Howard has been on MDD
I watch MDD and I'd never seen Howard on MDD until the debate between Matt and Howard
@@samanthapatrick4345 just search “modern day debate howard” and you should find a few examples
@@samanthapatrick4345Howard has four debates on MDD. They are easy to find.
"Do not recommend channel." MDD
@@IRGeamerwhat's wrong with MDD
I found a rock shaped like Dracula - Flat Earth Confirmed.
I'm sorry, but that's a completely irrational conclusion. Finding a Dracula shaped rock can only confirm that the United Nations is secretly run by vampires... But I understand the confusion... /s
@@IRGeamer I also found a rock shaped like Kofi Annan, so you're probably right.
It wasn’t a debate. It was a mentally ill man talking at Matt
You don’t owe that guy an apology. He is either a troll and doesn’t believe what he says, and therefor shouldn’t be taken seriously. Or he truly believes everything he says, and therefor shouldn’t be taken seriously.
Either way, he needs help. And I have zero problems saying that.
The way Howard leaned back and relaxed and got this "Aha, I gotcha' face" on when you responded to his opening presentation of pure insanity, and pretty much held it the whole time without even once raising an eye brow, let alone blink more than twice over the whole ~10 minutes, I knew there was nothing but a big "VACANCY" sign up there! You would have been cruel not to end it!
Did you watch him field the chat questions? Oh my!😢
I'm so glad this was addressed. This was so frustrating to watch & I'm glad Matt put this out.
Edit: I want to put this out there too. Matt was put in an impossible position because he was paired with a person who had bad intentions and irrational (and I'd argue irresponsible too) arguments. He was dishonest and Matt's only recourse was to walk out or stay and possibly make the opposition's stance seem reasonable. I hope I don't see MDD make shorts in the hopes of attracting views but we'll see. The whole debate should be considered as an episode that is just shelved.
He could have just informed himself who he was agreeing to associate with prior to signing a contract to debate the guy instead of wasting everybody else's time.
What Howard Stirrup said after you walked away from the debate which was the right decision gave me the impression Howard wasn't all that there because the things he said afterwards no normal or sane person would say or come out with
Owen Morgan says something to the effect of, individuals like this exhibit behavior that is nearly indistinguishable from those with mental health issues. However, unlike persons with legitimate mental health issues, these peoples symptoms were learned over time and cannot be treated medically/with drugs.
Honestly after this debate My only question is how strong is connection between conspiracy theory and religion?
Unfortunately I have found the Venn diagram of flat earthers and creationists to be almost an overlapping circle.
Religion is literally the greatest conspiracy theory of all time, especially the abrahamic religions.
@@MarkReidAtheismI watch a lot of FE debates and you're right, BUT they typically won't show their creationist hand until they are absolutely backed into a corner. Which I find interesting.
"There's not enough tinfoil" 😂
I was looking forward to this review. Watching the "debate" was hard to endure. I cannot imagine how it must have felt to actually being part of it. Very understandable to walk out of it.
You have more intestinal fortitude than I do. I bailed out early because the bullshit level was too high.
29:22
"There's not enough tin foil.. in the world.. to make a hat.. that would protect *any* of us from what this individual is talking about"
Having seen Howard debate previously I had an idea of how his arguments were going to go. I was glad that you left the debate, it was the right thing to do.
Always enjoy listening to your ideas around rationality and irrationality. Your clarity is appreciated. 🌟. 👍
Thanks for this review, Matt. I hesitantly watched about 10 minutes (if that) of this "debate". I quickly realized it is just one of those BS-shows put on by Modern Day Debate. Modern Day Debate is for the most part only interested in eyeballs and dumpster fires. It's about money; not honest debate. Howard Stirrup, bless his sole, lives is an alternate reality. He'll probably take this comment as a compliment - which ironically explains it all.
I only had to hear a couple of words from that debate before I knew it was pointless to continue.
"Do not recommend channel." MDD
Oh my dog. He was a Mudfossil U. graduate.
This was awful, and the sad thing is that the upcoming debate with Bigpoppafascist Andrew is gonna be just as bad.
Thank you for your content, Matt.
I was hoping this was the review about Pedokatchu!!!
I cant wait to watch that one!
Thank you Matt for your rational, clear and critical thinking and your ability to express it in an understandable way. I love how your mind works. Thank you for the debates you present.
are you talking about the guy on screen that thinks men can be women? or someone else?
Wow, this was such a kind summary of what was the most confused opening to a debate I have ever witnessed! This guy was so far off the mark it was scary how he had found people to back his ideas up. It sounds to me that he has gone down a youtube rabbit hole and got stuck in his own land of wonder.
You are the most viewed debater. You give value to all the other crap on there.
And that's why I hope Matt never does another "debate" on MDD.
I really wanted to know if these heart shaped stones were shaped like
❤
Oooo a serious shitshow to walk away from. Matt, i thank you for all your patience 🙏 you are a role model for the modern-day man.
Let me get this straight: in the year 2023 people still believe that an immortal super-being in the sky literally watches our every move, during our life, as well as “before” and after it, and sends us to eternal torture for not unconditionally loving it. Huh!?!?!?
Well when you put it like that it sounds ridiculous when in fact....
No... I got nothing.
I was fully expecting Matt's ridiculous opponent to impale himself, sitting on his bizarre number wheel and spinning himself dizzy while cackling maniacally.
Well said, keep doing your amazing work
I heard in the aftershow that Howard said he couldn't attend the after show, because he was going to celebrate the victory.. 🤦
I encountered people similar to this. At some point, I wanted to have conversations with them about certain subject, but was always uncomfortable to do it and now I see why. I would not know even where to start. It almost feels like speaking different languages. This debate was unfortunately set up for failure from the beginning.
Based on the last 10 debates it seems modern day debates is going out of their way to platform flat earthers.
"Do not recommend channel." MDD
I'd love to see Matt debate our New Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson. Johnson is a YEC and believes the Buybull literally. In fact, he wants to have the whole country believe just like him. and he is a science denier, thinks evolution is a lie and teaching it has caused the decay of the country's morals. Johnson really needs a session with Matt.
My mom is paranoid schizophrenic and she is alway connecting unrelated things which leads to off the wall claims... howard sounded exactly like that...
Don't diagnose people on the internet. That's a stupid thing to do.
@@Breadbored. I can whatever dafuck I want, thank you very much
@@PoliticsInCars Okay, champ. Go ahead and make a fool of yourself if you really want to.
You are a hero, being the better being!
My brain hurts because I've done too much thinking today. Thanks for giving me an excuse to think more
Thanks again for leaving this debate, perfect! We heard enough of this guy by that point. Now Alex/cosmic skeptic and other debaters could follow suit when they're being misrepresented to their face.
Production notes: The green screen is reflecting back on host causing "ill" look. Couple small wash lamps either side on host should overpower reflected green and provide clean image of the talent.
It was embarrassing. He had no ability or desire to debate.
I love how the review of the debate is half as long as the debate itself. lol
When Howard started talking about Dracula I fuckin lost it lol
I was looking forward to how you would analyze this absolute dumpster fire.
There was a point where you talked about the element of theater that debates have, I think you can capture a little more of that if you research the people you debate prior. Can set you up for some zingers, which are often the substance of what people remember.
I saw the debate and it was a train wreck. I was going to comment about heart shaped rocks, mainly the icon we have of a heart shape is not what the human hear looks like. The human heart has the shape of a strawberry 🍓 not a heart ❤
I'm pretty sure that Howard Stirrup actually says and refers to "harp shaped stones", not "heart shaped stones." You can go to 12 minutes 41 seconds in the actual debate to see a page of his presentation that makes this clear. Not to defend his argument, but he is not under the delusion that human hearts are shaped like the heart emoji.
@@joeyangtree1862 Thanks for the correction. I'm hearing impaired. Now I am questioning what the shape of a harp has to do with evidence for a god? And I have no plans to review this video. Once was painful enough.
Warning rocket worshipers I found God an the devil then ripped there souls out. Finally proof ❤ warning intense ❤ all are allowed
Last 3 days. Jesus power starts now....yr soul is waiting for you
@@walter6574 No problem. I see that Matt made the same mistake.
I fee sorry for Howard. He got part of the scientific method down. He made observations and then developed a hypothesis to explain those observations. He just skipped the very, very important step of testing the hypothesis before accepting it as true.
@@joeyangtree1862 Why test when one feels they are correct?
Lol great description
I saw that debate up till you left and no kidding you should have left. My mouth was wide with disbelief at how crazy that guy was.
Matt, you did your best and the vast majority around here will agree that you made a good decision by walking out. I must also applaud you for admitting where you made a mistake by saying that Howard needs help (even though that's what we all thought at that moment). Hope MDD won't platform these guys anymore, it will do this type of persons much harm in many ways by platforming them.
Well said Matt. And that was a bizarre debate to watch is all i'll say on that
James should have never proposed the debate. Howard is severely mentally ill.
Thank you Matt. I also admit when I have said the wrong thing, but I also give myself credit for trying to express myself. I learn from my mistakes, and try to do better next time. Would "I think you need help with your understanding of these matters." work?
This was an interesting debate to me personally.
I am diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder and being in the mental health system here in Israel for the past 5 years I’ve met many people like this. Seeing a serious thinker like Matt, who I’ve seen debate many times over the last 5 years, debate (excuse my French) an absolutely insane and unhinged individual; was extremely interesting to me. It made me think about Matt debating some of the people I’ve met over the past 5 years and it was really funny.
"...in his... whatever it was that he was presenting" sums it up quite well 😂
Thank you for that, Matt. Your empathy for Howard shows your for love humanity. As a Psych RN, I recognize that delusions are on a spectrum with societal norms as a backdrop. For example, the believe that Zeus actually throws thunderbolts maybe considered delusional. Whereas, Mohammed on a winged horse can be considered perfectly reasonable in an Islam country. Who needs “help”? The person that won’t drink or bathe due to fear of electrocution from Zeus’ thunderbolts.
I think saying, "you need help" sounds reasonable.
SciManDan says: "I don't debate established facts". And he's absolutely correct.
The problem is that Howard wasn’t there to debate. He said so himself. He has been on mdd before saying “I’m not here to debate”. I don’t know why they give him the time and space.
Hello. Do you know about Brandolini's Lay, aka the "Bullshit Asymmetry Principle"?
It's spot on there, and it's a useful tool to teach an audiance to recognise I think.
My biggest disappointment about that debate is that I never got to hear his evidence for how Prince Charles was related to Count Dracula. Seriously though, I don't think it is fair for you to have to debate people who have obviously just escaped from a mental asylum. modern day debates did you dirty..
The slideshow having way more text than he says feels like a remix of the spam “filtering” technique, allowing surface level weird shit to make most people dismiss it, but serving as a reward for those who are vulnerable and will comb through the stills which gives them more “rabbit holes” to go down. It’s like a skeptic to tin hat pipeline.
It also runs in line with him just wanting the platform.
It’s an interesting point you make at the end about constructing a ‘correct’ model of reality. I’d honestly be interested in a debate on that very topic because ultimately that is at the root of all disagreements and evidence of woolly thinking I feel. This person clearly has either no structure for determining reality - no filter - or they have a model which is the equivalent of throwing spaghetti at the wall.
I think Howards opener of that debate would be good proofs to get him admitted to a metal health facility for extra help
I was listening along as I usually do, and then I hear “pi and phi” and my brain jams. But it gets so, so much worse.
Indeed... special-casing Fibonacci sequence as "phi numbers" breaks it all. Take any two numbers, add them, add the prior two, repeat, it always quickly trends toward phi. The 24/60/etc cycles stuff still works too. Ah, but In a parallel universe where the Lucas numbers became the "phi numbers", i'm sure that Howard has cooked up a suitable set of cogs for that set of digits.
@@McNerdius Mathematics would not be different in parallel universes. Mathematics is abstract, and not subject to change because of different physics.
@@sjzara Howard, in our universe, is giving the Fibonacci sequence special treatment. The cycles Howard observes in the Fibonacci sequence are not unique to it. In the other universe, the Lucas Numbers replaces the Fibonacci Sequence as top google results for "Golden Ratio" etc, and the Fibonacci Sequence is more obscure. They're that universe's "phi numbers" - as Howard calls them. The digit cycles stuff still applies, but the digits are different. 1,1,2,3,5,8,4,3,7,1,8,9,8,8,7,6,4,1,5,6,2,8,1,9.... becomes 2,1,3,4,7,2,9,2,2,4,6,1,7,8,6,5,2,7,9,7,7,5,3,8....
If I had to bet, I'd say hearing the word Dracula being brought into the discussion was the turning point for you Matt 😂
Howard is deserving of a wider audience - there was a chat comment that Netflix should pay to expose Howard to a vast audience - this would help our Atheist message.
Matt - keep on rolling mate !
Right from the beginning of that debate, I quickly realized Matt didn't actually vette his opponent. I was really amazed at Matt's patience along the line trying to salvage the debate. At the end of the day the blame should go to the Morden Days debate team, they would have seen this coming. I hope they do better next time.
Yes, they should protect Matt from people he might not want to debate because they know Matt will sign a contract to debate literally anybody.
You can't debate or reason with crazy! 😅
I appreciate your take on the debate..it was the best thing to do, to walk away. You were not going to get anywhere anyway with Howard...he had no intention of having an honest debate with you. As far as him needing help...that could have been perceived many different ways..depending on ones perspectives.
I wouldn't beat yourself up over the "You need help" comment. You didn't try and diagnose him with anything and it doesn't always take an expert to notice when something is off.
I can tell when my truck needs work and I'm not a mechanic. But once I have noticed, I do then take it to said mechanic.