I was just about to mention this. There is something therapeutic about growing plants and animals. However, many will still want technology jobs, which is cool. Both the Amish/Mennonites and the homesteaders live within a Technological society. I think the future will be the same - a mix of both (This is where SciFi often gets it wrong - it is not either/or). Techies to make the products we need. The "primitives" will benefit with antibiotics, flush toilets. electricity, solar if nothing else. Techies will benefit by having places to retreat to when they need a break. Two cords wrapped around each other are strongest than one. In addition, many people will have multiple phases of their life where they first enjoy Tech, then semi-primitive, then back to tech, etc.
I wish I had a reference for this, and I am paraphrasing, but I read an anthropologists account of studying eskimos, and he saw an eskimo using a ski-mobile to hunt for seals. He asked the eskimo - 'are you worried that using modern technology will erode your culture and traditional ways?' The eskimo responded 'it normally takes all day to hunt one seal, it takes an hour or so to hunt one with a snowmobile. If you want to spend all day freezing your ass off, go ahead.'
Yup. I sometimes don't understand people who says that their cultures need protection (nationalism alert). Culture changes over time (sacrifice rituals used to be prevalent in ancient times). Cultures may divide into different ones or fuse into a new culture (which isn't necessarily something to be ashamed of). In my opinion if you think that your culture requires protection, it sort of implies that your culture cannot last long (which may imply that your culture isn't favourable for the public)
@@randomguy22777 I don't know you - so I don't know what you would take to be regressive. Attitudes towards women, minority groups could change; secular values could lose popular appeal; what people regard as falling under free speech could change... these are things I think are worth protecting anyway.
“In ancient times, men built wonders, laid claim to the stars and sought to better themselves for the good of all. But we are much wiser now” -unknown mechanicus tech priest
GTCatFastCars If you're interested in ideas for videos, then I suggest the following concepts and sources: Rejuvenation biotechnology (medical research for the elderly that gets called "immortality research" by journalists): www.lifespan.io/the-rejuvenation-roadmap/ www.fightaging.org/faq/#progress-in-sens www.fightaging.org/archives/2012/05/the-three-types-of-research-into-aging-and-longevity/ www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC423155/ www.cell.com/fulltext/S0092-8674%2813%2900645-4 www.oisinbio.com/#great-results www.ichortherapeutics.com www.repairbiotechnologies.com/pipeline/ www.leafscience.org/blog/ www.mfoundation.org www.sens.org/about/leadership/research-advisory-board spiegellab.yale.edu/publications masterinvestor.co.uk/economics/rejuvenation-biotechnology-at-last-its-a-genuine-industry/ ir.unitybiotechnology.com/news-releases/news-release-details/unity-biotechnology-inc-announces-first-patient-treated-ubx0101 Cryonics also makes sense and it would be helpful if more people realized this: www.biostasis.com/scientists-open-letter-on-cryonics/ www.biostasis.com/what-is-cryonics/ www.technologyreview.com/s/542601/the-science-surrounding-cryonics/ waitbutwhy.com/2016/03/cryonics.html www.cryonics.org/index.php/about-us/myths www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4733321/ www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3519283/ It might interest you to know that the late great Sir Arthur C. Clarke was also a supporter of the feasibility of cryonics: alcor.org/Library/html/declarations.html Both research areas are underfunded and largely ignored by entertainers and people in general. You could provide original and helpful content, and if you do try to raise awareness of said research, then all the best to you.
Also wonderful how there's no long comments boards full of insults being flung at each other over religious beliefs. Sooooo refreshing. I'm actually able to watch a video without my eye catching a ridiculous comment section containing an "insulting one another's belief systems" match. Thanks Isaac and equal thanks to my fellow Isaac audience members.
Speaking of prejudices. Aren't they useless to those without power and useful to those in power? Yes, power is the issue here. So Isaac has enough technical power to brainstorm to the nth degree, and give it a pretty face. BUT power must be the element of the atomized theory of thought. If I feel the need to make someone do something they don't want to do, is this the definition of power? How about the power to telepathically make someone want to do something? Is this the future of power? I mean how do you define wants? Yes we must atomize thought, just like we have atomized matter. That at least is a goal. And once we understand the brain, every nook and cranny of the synapse laid bare to our comprehension, what next? Surely, the laws of thermodynamics MUST be broken !!! Why not?
@@filipskotnica971 Warhammer 40k, although it's not Ordo Mechanicus, it's the Adeptus Mechanicus. They're the guys Isaac was showing on screen when he was discussing the Temple of Maintainers and Machine Gods. Within 40k's Imperium of Man, they're responsible for the vast majority of humanity's technological capabilities and manufacturing. To the point where, while there are folks who are allowed to do so without being part of the Cult Mechanicus, generally doing something not doctrinally supported (such as soldering a more efficient circuit path) is heretical and punishable by death. Unless you can convince the heads of the church that your modification is blessed by the Machine God. Then you're probably okay. Until you're not. Religions are kooky sometimes.
@@adamcarroll9613 It was a typo that I missed and already fixed. I meant the Ordo Mechanicum of the Imperial Inquisition that oversees that half-heretic scum of Mars. ;o)
Survival games are pretty common. In a post scarcity society, people might move to terraformed balls of rock just to challenge themselves. Especially if they can go back to the post scarcity life whenever they want for as much support as they desire.
I recommend Iain M Banks novels about The Culture. He has a very plausible take on a post scarcity society. Most of the novels is about the relationship to other societies as security and prosperity is great having, but are dull reading about. We meet lava-rafting in ceramics vessels though ;-)
I don't know if this is techno-phobic, but to use myself as an example: I find that injecting technology into everything to max isn't always helpful. For instance, I wear a very advanced watch, that is solar powered, and digital, but not a smart watch. This is so that I know the time, but don't need my phone on me. I find modern smart phones/watches too easily cause distraction, and are also fragile and expensive - and require a lot of attention in keeping them charged. I also find that others perceive it more rude to check your phone than to glance at a watch. So I'm supplanting very high techonology (smart watch/phone) with high technology (solar powered digital watch) that does only one job. So I could see a future where high tech doesn't look the way we might expect. If our more enlightened future selves realize that constant stimulation isn't a good thing (our current science already tells us this), we could be surrounded by tech, super advanced technology, but it's hidden away in everyday objects doing it's job and just staying out of our way. We would still live in the lap of luxury, but you wouldn't necessarily be interacting with an oversized screen on every item in the house. Then again, given how easily we humans are taken in by instant gratification, I could also see technology being the gateway to our own collapse. Not a collapse back to pre-industrial, but some sort of reset brought on by an imbalance in the number of people needed to keep the system running vs the number of people actually willing to do so.
I went the opposite way. When I first began carrying a cellphone (in the mid 90’s), I thought, “Well, I can check the time on this… I guess I don’t have to wear a watch anymore.” But then, I personally never really liked “wearing” anything and found watches annoying.
I'm inclined to believe that the reason UA-cam recommends those videos to me so late is that even the UA-cam algorithm needs time to adjust and comprehend the awesomeness of Issac Arthur. Although I haven't watched the video yet, your previous episodes are more than enough proof that you can consistently achieve a state of success and entertainment while still keeping the videos informative.
I remember a photo taken at grand central station in the 1950's of a row of men waiting to board a commuter train all reading the morning paper. Compared to a picture taken recently in the same spot of a row of commuters using their mobile phones. Changing technology dosent mean a change in human behavior.
I can not be the only one who would loooooooove to hear an interview/conversation between Isaac Arthur and a menonite, taking about terra-forming, O'Neal Cylindors, AI and space travel. That would be a fantastically entertaining bonus episode!!
Madhijz "I'm against technology, man! It often creates positive change, and it's like, what am I going to whine about when things are good? Plus, technology is artificial! Nothing but ALL NATURAL up in here, dude! I mean, yeah, I still benefit from the Internet, medicine, shelter, games... - 24 hours of hypocrisy later - ...autonomous transportation... aw shucks, there's no way of me looking all high and mighty now, is there? Man, if only Wire didn't sell out and Joy Division stuck around long enough to sell out, then... like... DUDE..."
There's something very techno primitivist about this song. lyricstranslate.com/en/hope-county-choir-keep-your-rifle-your-side-lyrics.html " They'll come day and they'll come night, They'll have our children in their sights, But if they don't have Faith their eyes are blind. They can scream and they can shout, But they will never smoke us out. Keep your rifle by your side. Singing, "Oh, Lord, this Earth was made for us." Singing, "Oh, Lord, this sinful life just ain't enough." Let me hear the voice, You know we have no other choice. Keep your rifle by your side. They'll have bombs and they'll have tanks, Because they have money in their banks, But we won't fall as long as we can fight. They'll go on and preach their hate, But they won't get past the gate Keep your rifle by your side. " They know their opponents are vicious ("They'll have our children in their sights") rich and well equipped ("They'll have bombs and they'll have tanks / Because they have money in their banks") but they also believe that faith, knowledge of terrain and a willingness to fight will give them the edge. Of course if you play the game this works out for them - their higher tech tormentors civilisation collapses under its own contradictions.
One of my cat's is very old and has a tumor on her palette that will eventually kill her. I'd been thinking recently about the idea of our pets living for centuries alongside us and what that might mean, glad to see you've got that covered :)
@@s0ulshot Good times?! Waiting 5 min+ for a computer to boot and the same time for downloading an animated gif looping after 5 sec? Win 98 freezing if you looked at it oddly and having to do semi-magic rituals during boot to prevent crashes? Get them rosa glasses off please... ;-)
@@s0ulshot The 1980's and 1990's sucked. Trust me, I was there. You couldn't buy whatever thing you wanted/needed because the store was either out or hadn't bothered to get it. The internet was extremely expensive and took forever to load, so you would be waiting for at least twice the amount of time you were actually on the internet. Churches and Televangelists were everywhere. Everyone was constantly terrified that nuclear war would wipe out everything (at least the ones who weren't looking forward to the end of the world so they could go be with Jesus). It was a LOT easier for criminals to get away with literal murder. There was no UA-cam. Phones were large and hooked into the wall, unless you were rich, then they were brick sized and maybe gave you cancer (which far fewer people survived by the way). If you enjoyed comics or anime you were considered a social degenerate. If you liked dungeons and dragons you were considered a demon worshiper (and that includes video games based on dungeons and dragons, from Baldur's Gate to The Elder Scrolls to Final Fantasy). Your parents would tell you that Heavy Metal music had hidden backward messages that would make demons possess your soul. If you listened to it (or any music made after the late 50s that wasn't Country or Christian) publicly you may have had a preacher conduct an exorcism on you (this happened to several of my friends). Your teachers would insist that evolution was not only untrue but was a conspiracy cooked up by Satan. Curry of any kind was not available, let alone Mochi. If you wanted that you had to go to Japan or India (and there was no google translate, so good luck ordering it). David Duke, the head of the KKK was running for president, and seemed to have a chance of winning (and if you were me you had relatives who wanted him to win). This is what life was in the 80's and 90's where I lived. Those were not good times.
I want intelligent songbirds I can talk to i mean they have the physical capability unlike primates and there is at least one real example of a bird that could talk with humans in Alex the African Gray Parrot. Given it has been shown that the avian syrinx is fully capable of mimicking human speech, and actually quite a bit more versatile than our vocal cords, it could even lead to an avenue to upgrade our vocal abilities. Also Birds and Crocodiles would be the optimal place to start if you wanted to develop living dragons as what place could be better to start from than from the last descendants of the animals that inspired the myths and legends through their fossilized remains? Communication would also be trivial with the avian syrinx which is basically a compact bi-modal upgrade to mammalian vocal cords....
An example would be the Neo Catholics from the show Altered Carbon. The main thing in that series is a computer chip called a “stack” which every human is outfitted with. The Stack contains all the memories and everything that makes a persons mind. So if your body dies you can live again if your Stack is implanted in a new body. The Neo Catholics rejected the idea of living forever that way so they have their stacks modified so that if their body dies the stack does as well.
One part of this topic I think you missed is the idea that manual toggles for things are generally more robust then refined buttons and digital interfaces. Electromagnetic pulses aren't likely to disable a giant toggle switch but could easily fry a keyboard.
winkey + r cmd.exe shutdown -s -t 2100 that would tell your computer to shut down in 35 minutes. you could just crawl into bed and use these vids like a bedtime story.
I noticed that when you talked about still preferring traditional pen and paper for writing down ideas, you were using a ballpoint pen, rather than a fountain pen. I think this actually shows an interesting point in this topic. The ballpoint pen is a more advanced technology than the older fountain pen. The ballpoint was designed to address the issue of leakage with fountain pens. Instead of delivering the ink through capillary action, a tiny ball applies fresh ink as it rolls, and acts as a seal when not in use. However, this design came with a compromise with the feel of the pen in use. Is the more advanced ballpoint "better" than the traditional fountain pen? Maybe. That depends largely on how you prioritize their differences. Is the feel of the pen worth the occasional leak? Is the limited selection of inks worth not refilling from a bottle? Some will prioritize the advantages of the older technology over the advantages of the newer technology.
Being someone who is surrounded by Amish in Lancaster County Pennsylvania. I would surmise that there isn't anything against being moved to another planet by someone else for the Amish, at least the Amish around where I live. I'll ask a few and update my response. My current reasoning is as follows 1. Many Amish who do non farming jobs, such as building houses, renovations, installations of equipment and more get to their job site by means of riding in a pickup truck that takes them and their gear to the job site. They don't own nor drive the truck, rather a non Amish person does that. It's actually away alot of nom Amish people make money here, hauling Amish people around. These modern vehicles are highly advanced with all the computers and engineering that goes into them... Because of this, I could see them viewing riding a space ship to another world, as akin to being driven around by someone in a pickup truck. 2. For work and on their farms they use various off grid technologies, such as solar panels with a car battery and inverter to power electric fences, generators, powered fans and electric power tools. Because of this, I could easily see them being willing to use technology that would be required to keep them alive on a new world, a space suit or atmospheric containing dome. Now to be clear, Amish are not homogenous, and further north from me is a sect(s) of Amish far stricter then the Amish around where I live. So they may be less prone to this.
I've lived in the Arcosanti project, and two other ecovillages, and I've taught over a hundred classes on sustainable design, and a dozen professional scale projects. My theory on this topic is: It is not about regressing for ideological purposes, it is about figuring out what things are actually most efficient at what scales. From my experiences, and knowledge set, as I see it as being on the flintstones and one of the Jetsons at the same time.
Civilizations don't need to be primitive in order to spend their days larping a primitive lifestyle. Being primitive and thus forced to live a primitive existence is a tragedy. Larping a primitive lifestyle is fun because you can stop anytime you want, hop in your a/c car and go grab dinner and a movie. ~"when you make a machine to do the work of a man, you take something away from the man" Yes, his ability to make money doing that work. Normal people don't work to give their life meaning, they work in return for money so they can buy the things they need and want.
i don't think it would change much. Despite all of our changes over the thousands of years, the life of pets has remained unchanged. The reason being, pets are companions not toys. My cat constantly knocks things off any edge, sits on my keyboard, eats plastic and vomits on the floor. All of these things annoy me, but at the same time i love it because it gives me something to genuinely care for, and teach. I don't think it will change, because i don't think there is anything to improve.
next do sexy aliens by popular demand you doing giant robots and power armor. if you see all the likes i got in all my comments asking for sexy aliens you will know that an episode about sexy aliens is popular demand.
Ok, after hearing your empathy for the labor concerns, and historical awareness of them, now really want to watch a video of your explanations of the future crises of Capitalism, and potential diversities of socialism that might be applied to address the concerns of Capitalism, both pre & post scarcity.
In my opinion a very advance civilization, while having most goods and services produced by robots, would value immensely anything made by hand. I imagine that a lot of lower class working people might be self employed producing small amounts of very expensive novelty goods. The same goes for anybody else. You might be a member of post scarcity civilization, who says you couldn't define your existence by growing your own food, or hunting with bow and spear. Especially if farmlands were no longer needed for mass production of food.
I agree. One can have lots of mass manufactured things like tools, dinner plates, etc. But one could still hold a certain sort of value towards something that was hand made by someone else, even if it is of lesser quality. Nostalgia, romanticism, sentimentality, etc would still allow certain old-fashioned things to exist. It is true in my case anyway.
That is how literally was in the Star Trek. For reminder Picard own winery. The point is not to remove hand craft or money, because that definitely wasn't the case there. But that mass produced items were so cheap that you could spend your time doing any hobby, what included also artistic expression and replicator credits were legit currency so you could exchange own crafts, just everyone get decent basic social what didn't really strain budget as there was no real competition over resources.
@@TheRezro it’s like capitalism but with enough resources inflation doesn’t happen because of the core reason of you can only make so many things with what we have on earth. Once we get to the point we can automate most systems and manufacturing processes, we should also have the understanding of doing so while still operating from a net loss, as in still have the cost of living increase but not wages, or other factors that make having a full time job necessary, not only are bad ideas socially and ethically(by my standards) it’s also less efficient than just changing the standard of value to stop being what’s produced for mundane life. You aren’t making people pay for the infrastructure to keep it going at such a high rate and should have the energy to make it possible. You should be able to run an entire factory off your energy source, while also having available homes and food for everyone regardless of whether or not they make a certain amount of money. Then what do you pay for? Anything you put value in. If your metric for increasing wealth isn’t based in a finite number of resources at any given time, and can adjust for changes in that should such a civilization actually live long enough to run out of resources anyway. I don’t even try to plan for timescales that big. What becomes rare isn’t resources but individually created things. You don’t value you it because you can use it in any normal sense, you buy it because you like it and it’s cool, like a painting done by hand with the oldest known artistic tools. Classical musicians or other perosnal human performers of music would also be very popular. It becomes a society where you pay for what you want rather than anything you need to survive.
ISAAC!!! I'm Soo glad I'm not the only one who still takes hand written notes. Great upload once again, I really can't tell you how much I'm enjoying your channel, suffice to say that I AM
I feel like this is more real and observant than what we acknowledge. I see tribes like the Hopi Indians being remains of a previous civilization. I think their culture reflects some of the previous civilization here on Earth, from a time when the technology was so balanced and developed that we worshiped it like the sun. Interesting subject.
"natural is better" is said without the understanding that asbestos, radon , lead, mercury &many other things, are all natural & these substances plagued previous societies that incorporated them into their infrastructure & amenities for all their more preferable qualities (which are great if not for all the mayhem they do to organic life-forms.) In reality, sometimes synthetic is better. Also, I've really never had a job for more than a week, that I didn't want to completely automate, even the jobs I've spent a long time doing. I just don't want to be homeless and starving because those jobs are automated. I figure there are people going around replacing the computer and printer parts, something I could do, and that will be someone going around replacing the cogs and pistons and servos on all the robots. In reality, I could get a pay bump if my current employer replaced the jobs I'm doing. If the sales job I was doing was a hologram, and the material moving job I was doing was robotic, and I was just keeping that tech to spec and on task as an administrator, or trustee, or foreman, I probably could work less and get paid more, so long as all the tech didn't run off all the customers. It's funny, some jobs have already become techno-primitive. There are certain situations where I was making 8 or 9 dollars an hour, and thought to myself, that those doing a similar job a couple of centuries ago would have at least had a mule or other beast of burden, on top of a many hands make light work approach, and instead, in certain situations, I was it because the employer didn't have power equipment, or beasts of burden, fucking heave ho, which is practically Neolithic effort. Sometimes modern economics & corporate administration & what appears to be stratified competencies in the labor pool creates totally bizarre situations. It's more like Fallout's Vault program than anything else, some of us are getting early access to all the most advanced technologies, and others of us are having to do things without simple rigging practices (rope & pulley), or the benefit of animal husbandry. And if someone gets stuck in a job as backward as that, it's no wonder they think a primitive homestead, or a hunting cabin, or rural farm, is a step up... Of course, if they start milking cows or turning mules into plows they may get kicked in the gut and killed, or struggle with all the other things that lifestyle entails that my tenant farming ancestors told me about, not the least of which is getting increasingly disconnected from the modern economy, in a situation where inflation of fiat currencies isn't exactly ever going to go away, and where rich developers can just wait around for you to fall behind on taxes to get all the bargain basement land you purchased at even lower price than you. (Assuming you're not just squatting on someone else's land, and that has all kinds of other pitfalls & dangers associated with it.) The difference between me and a lot of cats going regressive is that I know the past wasn't all that great. Shit, loosers in this economy hang out at gas-stations just wasting their lives away looking for their next fix with (more often than not) reasonable access to clothing, shelter, food, if they get sick none of us know how they or the government are going to pay for it. Meanwhile, losers in the previous economies always ended up in an early grave because of the brutality of nature or someone else, but if they got kicked by a mule, someone would send for a doctor & he'd show up like a pizza-boy, and 1 times out of 4 he'd practice some form of complete quackery. We got some real knots to untie in our current circumstances, but that doesn't mean we should think the past did it better. There's always trade-offs when humanity changes up the game.
Seven BILLION people on the planet, each of which wants, needs, even deserves the simplest of respectable circumstances... and you YOURSELF, Tixe, said "I just don't want to be broke and homeless because the robots are doing those jobs". Every human out there wants to do something with PURPOSE. It's not even about specifically working one's ass off all his life to fall into an early grave... just to say "I'm the kind of man who died with his boots on"... It's about knowing WHY one pushed a wrench for thirty f***ing years. That said... What do you suppose happens among seven BILLION (7,000,000,000) people when there's already a couple hundred BILLION robots to do anything with any purpose at all? Robots push wrenches (if those even exist) to fix and maintain all the robots doing 'useful labor'... Robots to check and maintain all the sub-structure of the robots "pushing wrenches" for the robots keeping everyone alive... AND someone STILL owes all that money for electricity to keep the lights on, water flowing (pumps, filters, treatment centers)... Sure... SOMEONE gets a pay-bump "upward" when the simplicity of a sales job turns into a supervisory job for the hundreds and thousands of robots on the "floor" or running through algorithms in the web-shopping-emporium... Who the hell promised that would be YOU out of 7,000,000,000 people? Where did you graduate... in a class of how many? Top ten? Top five? Valedictorian? Because out of those 7,000,000,000 people out there, if you ain't got Valedictorian? You probably ain't even worth putting in front of a college... let alone through it. No Magna-cum-laude, and a mountain of debt? You're screwed... unhirable. forget it. The rest of us have a machine that already does the job better and faster and cheaper than you ever will. Congrat's worthless. Enjoy going to prison, because drugs aren't even worth enough to get your debt unloaded before you're caught... by third-gen' machine learned robo-cops. Look, I grew up in the sticks. I KNOW just how horrible and dangerous all that "nature" is. SO hell, no, I'm not about to pledge a life of living like a damn Roman. Forget a bunch of that noise... Maybe... just maybe... NOT making money any more intangible than it already is would be a slightly more sensible ideal. NOT dubiously putting robots into every possible working function that used to be a human being, simply because furniture can "technically" be feasibly built by slamming brads and nails into everything with a butt-join or bridle-joint instead of actually having someone with the "spirit of creativity" work with actual craftsmanship to make a product to last, even if it takes about five times as long. Maybe NOT moving from plastic to further synthetics for EVERY possible notion and product on the planet would be a slightly more sane ideal than the dubious "fashionable" paradigm of whatever the "latest fancy material invention" is absolutely MUST be the best thing ever for everything. Just like Isaac Arthur pointed out in the video, the protests of those arguing against some facet of technology is often exaggerated out of hand... SO how long would you prefer to live homeless, broke, and/or (probably) bouncing between too wasted to care and too sick to move... or would that suddenly "brutal demise" of nature start to sound a hell of a lot quicker and more painless in the very slightly bigger picture??? I'm wondering because you can certainly type up a great game, but I doubt your experience. ;o)
@@EpicEliteSnipe Down the Rabbit hole, recently did a good video on Universe 25, a study of rats in a colony that had everything done for them... They had no want or need unfulfilled and with virtually no risk or real effort required. It was shut down with the few remaining rats at around 300 days... with terrifying conclusions. I know... "People are not rats." Watch the video, and then take a long couple days to examine news on TV, read some actual news print... check out the feeds at reputable sources... and get back to me on that. Pay particular attention to how that rats were categorized and described (by habits) through the main experiment. No, I don't assume people and laws won't change. I've read my history, too. Did you actually not notice my outright aversion to "Living like a damn Roman"??? I can see FAR too many frightening parallels to the rats getting all they wanted, and in spite of that, they did NOT die out from over-population... which would have only been remotely possible... that thing was enormous. I suggest when(IF) you DO get back to me... try reading AND absorbing the whole passage... OR you can leave it "open" for reference. My formatting might read a bit "wonky", but it's set up for relatively quick references... JUST for the laughable purpose of replies not being so poorly thought out. ;o)
Technology and Sciences behind it are neither Good nor Bad, it is those that use it. The oft quoted WW2 German scientist's feeling, "It worked beautifully, it just landed on the wrong planet."
Excellent point about high-tech giving you more choice about what technology not to use. IIRC, the Nox the team encounters are more-or-less on an extended vacation/camping trip. Society wise, they had basically the ultimate cloaking technology, so they could choose to forgo weapons and such. They also had Clarketech levels of medical and other tech (as well as very long lives), so going to live in a hut in the woods for a few year or decades is recreation/education.
The "unnatural" argument is a flawed one because we aren't the only animals that use tools are build things. If a human house is "not natural" then what about a bird's nest, bee hive, beaver dam, and etc? After all how can something that is natural make something that is not natural? It's all just an arbitrary line.
EPISODE SUGGESTION: Speculative evolution. I know pets will be tackled, but what about plants and animals (or even primitive humans) left in the wild (for a given value of wild)? Imagine this: An environmentalist group sees that there is a lack of will to protect nature as they see it. They opt for a practical solution and decide to send bits of nature into space where urban sprawl won't touch it. Unlike in the movie Silent Running, these guys decide to go big, O'Neil cylinder big. Either through a lack of perpetual funding or a reluctance to interfere with the new nature that they created, the animals will drift genetically. How would plants and animals evolve to take advantage of this new ecosystem? (This experiment could be considered for any other world, including a terraformed planet, such as Mars, or even the urban jungles of future Earth.)
I find it incredibly hard to believe that anyone can look around at the state of society today and see the trajectory the world is on and still think we’re headed for some technological utopia rather than the nightmarish dystopia that’s virtually inevitable at this point
The problem with this video is, there are two very different ideologies that have the name techno-primitivism. The political ideology, also called techprim or archeofuturism, actually promotes scientific acceleration leading to transhumanism, and hugely support space expansion, while simultaneously wanting a primitive middle age cultural environment (low pollution, more cultural integrity). The one that Arthur is discussing is very different.
a video on your version of techprim from Isaac would be great. Terrence McKenna touched on the idea back when he was alive, but just as a concept. He didn't get into the nuts and bolts of it the way Isaac would.
"just because we can, doesn't mean we should." I think that is the core value of such mindsets, and honestly, I can agree with that. capitalist markets create artificial wants they then can fulfil, thats what Ads are. being able to Say NO is an important skill, especially in our era of excess.
Olden Day Skills One thing learned from the Prepper movement is that old superseded skills can be forgotten. A far more dangerous problem. When I think of this I recall The Hitchhikers Guide (Golgafrinchan Ark Fleet Ship B) telephone sanitisers, account executives and hairdressers
@@rodgermyles2871 wheel yes but how bout all the steps from the wheel to the amd threadripper cpu? best to make sure those skills like how to etch cheips how to make lathes ectra are not forgotten either
I think that love for old things is partly based in the idea that old things are a bit of a luxury. Nice old things tell people you can afford the extra money to acquire and use such a thing. Like with a straight razor. Not only could you afford one you can afford all the extra time it takes to sharpen, clean and shave. Time/money is not so scarce to you that you use this old method.
3rd world tribesmen are healthier than western people (not taking into account infectious diseases). Processed foods, GMO, pollution, radiation. overuse of pharmaceuticals all build up in your organism. Why do you think cancer rates, respiratory and digestive disorders, alergies etc. etc. are constantly on the rise even with modern medicine.
"until their health fails". Except one of the likeliest scenarios that was described in the video for such a movement to be popular is when humans are not affected by mortality or sickness, thus allowing them to live out their idealized perception of the past. Like the whole point of adding "techno" to it is that it's not pure primitivism, it's primitivist ideals reinterpreted through a technologically advanced lens, allowing the ideal to be possible.
Awesome as always, Isaac,... I'm currently listening to every single release via Soundcloud Podcasts, I'll also be listening to this one again, very soon. Thanks, again.
Another possible angle "techno-primitivism" could take would be a society with highly-advanced biological, ecological, and genetic sciences that replaces conventional technologies with living creatures. SF examples include the Yuuzhan Vong (Star Wars EU), Species 8742 (Star Trek) and arguably, the Na'vi from Avatar. It's at least conceivable that such a civilization could be capable spacefarers without much that looks like "technology" as we know it.
one thing not covered about the "hard work builds better humans" line of thought is with enough tech you could probably artificially create or influence whatever "better human" traits you want even if you discount fully or mostly computerized people.
“In ancient times, men built wonders, laid claim to the stars and sought to better themselves for the good of all. But we are much wiser now” -unknown mechanicus tech priest
@@hithere5553 I see you are also versed in the theology of the Mechanicus. Most impressive. Just remember, in the words of Tech-Priest Jung "Our enemies may rest but rust never sleeps." Stay vigilant, brother.
The writing on paper thing isn't necessarily irrational. The act of physically writing has been shown to engage areas of the brain related to working memory and language. Intentional irony is also pretty entertaining and that's good for your brain as well, so running a science and futurism channel and employing hand made paper is just the smart thing to do.
I think what people want is not primitivism, but they want out of the modern rat-race, out of the cities they are forced to live in in order to have a career/job/secure their childrens future. A study showed that one in three people in the city of Helsinki did not want to live there but had to due to job/schools, only 34% of the finnish people when asked prefered to live in a city if given the choice. And I remember another american article saying the same thing about young people leaving rural areas there, they feel they have to. What people want (not all people, but certainly to a greater degree than our current society thinks and allows for) is the small scale but our society says no, capitalism demands urbanization, centralization and mass consumption. BUT IMO humans are naturally inclined to prefer to form smaller social groups with higher levels of trust between individuals and high degrees of equality. These egalitarian small societies though are something technology can help bring about, not stop. The problems in our society are political, not technological.
Our "ancestral environment" was tribes, it makes sense. Now... should we go back to tribe-grouping, real of artificial ? Or should we train/modify ourselves for city+ size ?
Great episode. It is interesting to think of how increasing lifespans (and thus increased preference for the familiar) and improving technology will mesh.
One of the things i'm planning on including in a game I'm making: different ideologies, including primitives, will settle their own systems. Primitives will generally hire an uploaded mind or full AI to haul them in cryosleep to that system, terraform or paraterraform an area for them, and leave them there with nothing more than basic infrastructure.
12:45 I cannot express how much this applies to me. As someone who enjoys writing computer programs that often use low-level and difficult interfaces(like, say, a terminal), and someone who prefers to use terminal variants of programs over their GUI counterparts, this applies to me greatly. I've come to the partial conclusion that it's because of the aesthetic. There's just something about using a terminal that appeals more than a typical GUI would. As for the low-level interfaces, that's most likely because I enjoy feeling like I'm "reinventing" technology. By using low-level interfaces to solve problems, I'm using the very things that were used back then to solve those same problems.
I remember reading a sci-fi novel years ago about a monarchist space empire that had some technolgy, like spaceships, space elevators, and a nuclear powered train, but otherwise is like living in victorian times!
William Burns Who’s to say that it wasn’t? I’ve met many people who lived in essentially primitivistic villages, where they worked the land and lived very humbly. Most were actually very content and had a serenity that I can’t really describe. They took pleasure in life’s simplicities. Meanwhile in the big city all I see is people milling about, usually avoiding eye contact or staring at their phones, rude and rushed, etc. You can practically taste the thinly veiled misery. If I had a choice I know which of the two I’d choose.
Now there's something I'd like to see. Isaac Arthur Explains O'Neill Cylinders (And Other Extraterrestrial/Extrasolar Options) To An Amish Person would be incredibly interesting to see. Would they be interested in the idea of potentially living in their own cylinder? Or settling a new world should the option arise (unlikely as that may be any time soon)? So many questions!
Future solution: Imagine that star trek village, clean and prosperous, yet low seemingly low tech and natural. But imagine that as you look closely, you see tiny semblence of power sockets tucked away from plain sight (power tools are used only in emergencies). The well in the village looks medieval, but has a water filtration/purification system.The houses appear to be made of wood, but the walls are lined with non-flammable, thermally insulated material (in case the winter is too tough). The people seem to only wear simple clothes, and posses basic medicine (but everyone is vaccinated from most illnesses, and there is a robot MedEvac chopper on stand-by 24/7 a few hundred meters away from the village) In short: You can attempt to live that primitive lifestyle (and have the benefits of that), with the backup of modern tech (to avoid all the negatives of that primitive lifestyle) To some degree this is already the case in USA - look at how modern farmers live. A simple life, but with all the comforts of modern safety and security services...
Sounds more like a fake primitivist show to me rather than a good hybrid, although close. Simple and natural are not the exact words which should be used towards what we should become in near future. The word we're looking for is ascetic, thrifty maybe. Waste as little as possible (that includes a whole lot of things that many "progressives" dare not even question), move resources towards space, build-up our space presence, make sure we can continue to live and have a back-up colony just in case something drastic and unavoidable happens. How do you know whether or not we'll get fried tomorrow by a gamma ray burst? What if we will be in 30 years? 30 years sound like about enough time to prepare a back-up colony, don't you think?
@@HadzabadZa Absolutely, I think we can do that. My point was more about the psychological aspects of decorative infrastructure design. Also once automation fully kicks in - only 10-15% of population (due to their IQ) will do any research/space exploration (which is what you mentioned). The rest will be able to live this primitive, yet safe, natural lifestyle and only have to worry about trying to plough their fields with minimal modern tech and finding themselves a spouse. So in effect - we will do both - simply because people's needs vary a lot...
@@filipskotnica971 Look at twitter.com/wrathofgnon?lang=en posts, it features good criticism of modernity from a traditional viewpoint with good examples. Automation is not really a good decision if you want to create things like permaculture farms, even some high-level decisions like neural network planning and some kind of drone swarm intelligence would probably not suffice, so even proper farming is quite high IQ actually. And those high-IQ spacemen still would need support from the farmers and other labourers at least in terms of food. Also, we better doggone keep automation away from women and reproduction, I'm not in favour of a new, more efficient reproductor taking over us.
The physical therapy I need/ed to recover from a major illness has led me to an active physical lifestyle that has many people I know shaking their heads in wonder. But I still value modern technology, and want to remain part of the 21st Century. There are indeed plenty of character building challenges and lots of hard work to do, even if one owns a PC and a smartphone.
The backstory of Warframe takes an interesting spin on this trope. (this is off the top of my head, some parts might be incomplete or inaccurate) The super advanced any technology-reliant Orokin Empire had their terraforming machines, the Sentients, rebel against them. One of the main features of a Sentient is that it can rapidly adapt to damage it suffers, mitigating the impact of that particular damage in the future. Being able to rapidly adapt to heated environment when caught in a forest fire, for example. When the newly-rebelled Sentients returned from their terraforming mission to exterminate their masters, it was clear that they can rapidly adapt to high-tech Orokin weaponry and make it ineffective. As a result, Sentients were wiping the floor with the opposition, until a Sentient raider that attacked a manual labor camp, was unexpectedly damaged by a slave's vibro-shovel-thing, and forced to retreat. The Orokin realized that while the Sentients easily adapt to their high tech weapons, they have trouble doing that with actual kinetic damage. This resulted in the Orokin deploying zero-tech soldiers, equipped with "percussion rifles" (probably similar to today's assault rifles), melee weapons and unpowered armor en masse to try to fend off the invasion. It wasn't really enough though, and they deployed a whole series of horrible and uncontrollable weapon experiments, all hell-bent to dance around the Sentient's adaptability, one of which were the titular Warframes.
I think it's important that, while your characterization of historical Luddites is correct, contemporary groups who chose to describe themselves as Luddites have a much more regressive view on technology, much more in line with the contemporary stereotype of a "Luddite". Romanticizing primitive cultures, demonizing automation, etc. While their regressive and stupid opposition to technology (as a group) is fairly narrow, being focused primarily only on one thing, I would definitely include anti-vaxxers in the contemporary Luddite category.
People: Life was so good in the old days. The old days: short lifespans, children dying from vaccine-preventable diseases, 50% of women dying in childbirth.
Issac-sempai, make a video on fermi about caijus and giant mechs, in a comedy tone would be great, i think u can even patch that to a random saturday video
i do see that you could live in a completely natural area, and in your home you could have all the confort and technology of the captial of the universe. is what happens in the U.S. already: rural areas are abundant of Nature, but on the houses of folks living there, you have internet, fridges, all the necessities of a modern home and maybe even solar pannels for local energy generation and water pipes for local water generation and waste disposal to sewers. one could live isolated on the woods, but have a hovercar to use when they wanna go buy groceries in the capital market, or better yet have drones deliver them the stuff. a "life in the woods" in my view, does not mean that you would divorce completely of technology, you and your home would have it, but you would be able to be immersed in nature once you step out of your home.
I love the concept high-low-tech. At the time where Danish trains got an electronic button to lock the toilet doors, the new Swedish trains got a steel latch with a lever arm. Simple, intuitive and everybody could open it. The first year the Danish doors _mostly_ stayed close when you needed them to. Now they are fine, but...
'primitive' is relative in this case. Had you reached the example about the functionally immortal transhuman living as a hunter-gatherer when you made this comment?
That's why nature initially designed our circumstances the way it did, to not give us a chance of going around its intended purpose. If I'm making any sense
Douggernaut84 People used to have a very resigned attitude when it came to death. Even plagues and famines eventually because just another facet of life. In my opinion, the modern phobia of death is more unhealthy, and your comment really highlights it.
If humans ever build a galactic civilization across 100,000,000,000 star systems with a total population of 10^30, then I'm sure there were be thousands (millions?) of planets that decide to go techno-primitive.
Absolute truth! Though for clarity, only dated extreme interpretation of capitalism. Automation is far lesser issue in societies with decent social-capitalism.
Reflects out tendency to polarise and arrive at outcomes after a confrontational process between opposites. This, however is a more thoughtful analysis of the sort we need to promulgate to our legislators.
I think "future-primitivism" would be like modern "homesteading" is today. Using select modern technology to make living a "simple life" easier.
the best part is making money by shooting videos about the primitive life style and uploading it to UA-cam
@@pumpuppthevolume And then become one of the most popular UA-camrs of all time, all while having no dialog in any of the videos.
You could choose what technology you use and don't use.
@@pauljs75 Making bowls and huts out of mud.
I was just about to mention this. There is something therapeutic about growing plants and animals. However, many will still want technology jobs, which is cool. Both the Amish/Mennonites and the homesteaders live within a Technological society. I think the future will be the same - a mix of both (This is where SciFi often gets it wrong - it is not either/or). Techies to make the products we need. The "primitives" will benefit with antibiotics, flush toilets. electricity, solar if nothing else. Techies will benefit by having places to retreat to when they need a break. Two cords wrapped around each other are strongest than one. In addition, many people will have multiple phases of their life where they first enjoy Tech, then semi-primitive, then back to tech, etc.
I wish I had a reference for this, and I am paraphrasing, but I read an anthropologists account of studying eskimos, and he saw an eskimo using a ski-mobile to hunt for seals. He asked the eskimo - 'are you worried that using modern technology will erode your culture and traditional ways?' The eskimo responded 'it normally takes all day to hunt one seal, it takes an hour or so to hunt one with a snowmobile. If you want to spend all day freezing your ass off, go ahead.'
Absolutely spot on
Yup. I sometimes don't understand people who says that their cultures need protection (nationalism alert). Culture changes over time (sacrifice rituals used to be prevalent in ancient times). Cultures may divide into different ones or fuse into a new culture (which isn't necessarily something to be ashamed of). In my opinion if you think that your culture requires protection, it sort of implies that your culture cannot last long (which may imply that your culture isn't favourable for the public)
@@randomguy22777 You might think differently if the culture you belong to starts to change in ways you find regressive.
Archie Fisher regressive seems to be a bit too generalized. Examples?
@@randomguy22777 I don't know you - so I don't know what you would take to be regressive. Attitudes towards women, minority groups could change; secular values could lose popular appeal; what people regard as falling under free speech could change... these are things I think are worth protecting anyway.
“In ancient times, men built wonders, laid claim to the stars and sought to better themselves for the good of all. But we are much wiser now”
-unknown mechanicus tech priest
"we are much wiser now" If only
@@legion999 "mechanic" makes me think it's Warhammer 40k, so he's not talking about today ( even though I think we are)
legion999 That quote is from Warhammer 40k
@@Awesomeduud Still, have you seen the 41st Millenium?
@@Awesomeduud I know, I was talking about the ignorance of the mechancus
It's always great how you examine all facets of issues without discounting them because of personal prejudices.
Dude your on every channel I sub to this is ridiculous
Excepting the idea that AI will be pacified with paranoia
GTCatFastCars If you're interested in ideas for videos, then I suggest the following concepts and sources:
Rejuvenation biotechnology (medical research for the elderly that gets called "immortality research" by journalists):
www.lifespan.io/the-rejuvenation-roadmap/
www.fightaging.org/faq/#progress-in-sens
www.fightaging.org/archives/2012/05/the-three-types-of-research-into-aging-and-longevity/
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC423155/
www.cell.com/fulltext/S0092-8674%2813%2900645-4
www.oisinbio.com/#great-results
www.ichortherapeutics.com
www.repairbiotechnologies.com/pipeline/
www.leafscience.org/blog/
www.mfoundation.org
www.sens.org/about/leadership/research-advisory-board
spiegellab.yale.edu/publications
masterinvestor.co.uk/economics/rejuvenation-biotechnology-at-last-its-a-genuine-industry/
ir.unitybiotechnology.com/news-releases/news-release-details/unity-biotechnology-inc-announces-first-patient-treated-ubx0101
Cryonics also makes sense and it would be helpful if more people realized this:
www.biostasis.com/scientists-open-letter-on-cryonics/
www.biostasis.com/what-is-cryonics/
www.technologyreview.com/s/542601/the-science-surrounding-cryonics/
waitbutwhy.com/2016/03/cryonics.html
www.cryonics.org/index.php/about-us/myths
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4733321/
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3519283/
It might interest you to know that the late great Sir Arthur C. Clarke was also a supporter of the feasibility of cryonics: alcor.org/Library/html/declarations.html
Both research areas are underfunded and largely ignored by entertainers and people in general. You could provide original and helpful content, and if you do try to raise awareness of said research, then all the best to you.
Also wonderful how there's no long comments boards full of insults being flung at each other over religious beliefs. Sooooo refreshing. I'm actually able to watch a video without my eye catching a ridiculous comment section containing an "insulting one another's belief systems" match. Thanks Isaac and equal thanks to my fellow Isaac audience members.
Speaking of prejudices. Aren't they useless to those without power and useful to those in power? Yes, power is the issue here. So Isaac has enough technical power to brainstorm to the nth degree, and give it a pretty face. BUT power must be the element of the atomized theory of thought. If I feel the need to make someone do something they don't want to do, is this the definition of power? How about the power to telepathically make someone want to do something? Is this the future of power? I mean how do you define wants? Yes we must atomize thought, just like we have atomized matter. That at least is a goal. And once we understand the brain, every nook and cranny of the synapse laid bare to our comprehension, what next? Surely, the laws of thermodynamics MUST be broken !!! Why not?
Ordo Mechanicum approved.
Machine God blessing granted.
Eldar Exodites nod in agreement.
Kroot nodding in the woods.
This is a reference to what ?
@@filipskotnica971 Warhammer 40k, although it's not Ordo Mechanicus, it's the Adeptus Mechanicus. They're the guys Isaac was showing on screen when he was discussing the Temple of Maintainers and Machine Gods. Within 40k's Imperium of Man, they're responsible for the vast majority of humanity's technological capabilities and manufacturing. To the point where, while there are folks who are allowed to do so without being part of the Cult Mechanicus, generally doing something not doctrinally supported (such as soldering a more efficient circuit path) is heretical and punishable by death. Unless you can convince the heads of the church that your modification is blessed by the Machine God. Then you're probably okay. Until you're not. Religions are kooky sometimes.
@@adamcarroll9613 It was a typo that I missed and already fixed. I meant the Ordo Mechanicum of the Imperial Inquisition that oversees that half-heretic scum of Mars. ;o)
@@filipskotnica971 HERESY!
I now need video of IA interviewing a member of Amish Community about terraforming and O'Neil cylinders
I live reasonably close to Lancaster, and now I want to do it myself; I won't, but I want to.
Yes!
Close second to this would be video of an AI interviewing a member of Amish Community about terraforming and O'Neil cylinders.
I imagine an Amish-designed O'Neil would be lovely... until the enormous rod comes through it and churns the populace into butter.
@@thomaspalazzolo5902 Yes... it would be like a Butterlarian Jihad
Survival games are pretty common. In a post scarcity society, people might move to terraformed balls of rock just to challenge themselves. Especially if they can go back to the post scarcity life whenever they want for as much support as they desire.
Heck, I'd consider doing that....
I recommend Iain M Banks novels about The Culture.
He has a very plausible take on a post scarcity society. Most of the novels is about the relationship to other societies as security and prosperity is great having, but are dull reading about.
We meet lava-rafting in ceramics vessels though ;-)
Minecraft: Real Survival Mode. Death just means your last backup is cloned and shoved out at the spawn point.
@@alfadorfox exactly. You just need a spot where backups can be stored and clones can be made.
Pandora from Borderlands
I don't know if this is techno-phobic, but to use myself as an example: I find that injecting technology into everything to max isn't always helpful. For instance, I wear a very advanced watch, that is solar powered, and digital, but not a smart watch. This is so that I know the time, but don't need my phone on me. I find modern smart phones/watches too easily cause distraction, and are also fragile and expensive - and require a lot of attention in keeping them charged.
I also find that others perceive it more rude to check your phone than to glance at a watch. So I'm supplanting very high techonology (smart watch/phone) with high technology (solar powered digital watch) that does only one job.
So I could see a future where high tech doesn't look the way we might expect. If our more enlightened future selves realize that constant stimulation isn't a good thing (our current science already tells us this), we could be surrounded by tech, super advanced technology, but it's hidden away in everyday objects doing it's job and just staying out of our way.
We would still live in the lap of luxury, but you wouldn't necessarily be interacting with an oversized screen on every item in the house.
Then again, given how easily we humans are taken in by instant gratification, I could also see technology being the gateway to our own collapse. Not a collapse back to pre-industrial, but some sort of reset brought on by an imbalance in the number of people needed to keep the system running vs the number of people actually willing to do so.
You can very easily buy a simple watch, nobody forces you to buy a smartwatch.
Casio watches for example.
@@Mchacz8008 that has nothing to do with what he was talking about
I went the opposite way.
When I first began carrying a cellphone (in the mid 90’s), I thought, “Well, I can check the time on this… I guess I don’t have to wear a watch anymore.”
But then, I personally never really liked “wearing” anything and found watches annoying.
Have you considered spring watch?
I'm inclined to believe that the reason UA-cam recommends those videos to me so late is that even the UA-cam algorithm needs time to adjust and comprehend the awesomeness of Issac Arthur. Although I haven't watched the video yet, your previous episodes are more than enough proof that you can consistently achieve a state of success and entertainment while still keeping the videos informative.
You might be onto something there!
One of the best sources of science education on UA-cam, if not the internet itself.
@Jonathan Stiles That's why T-Series overtook Pewdiepie.
@@theCodyReeder I really liked your video about inhaling the noble gases, any change you could continue the series with consuming all of the halogens?
I remember a photo taken at grand central station in the 1950's of a row of men waiting to board a commuter train all reading the morning paper. Compared to a picture taken recently in the same spot of a row of commuters using their mobile phones. Changing technology dosent mean a change in human behavior.
I think human nature is one of the breeding ground for arguments against high tech, or utopia's becoming dystopia's.
Yes, humans sought distraction in the past as much as we do today. But we have way more distractions now than we did then. That's the danger.
Although people with a newspaper at least sometimes talked to people
Using a notebook and writing on actual paper is fine but please don't use paperclips. Just to be on the safe side you know.
It's too late. The paperclip lobby sealed out fate a long time ago.
Not too worry paperclips are just the larval form of coat hangers..
You know, I don't think I do very much, and looking in my desk, there is a box of paperclips but it still has it's tape seal on and is a bit dusty.
This is a GLORIOUS PAPERCLIP MAXIMIZER joke, right?
@@isaacarthurSFIA Well as long as they stay in that box they can't maximize so you should be safe.
I can not be the only one who would loooooooove to hear an interview/conversation between Isaac Arthur and a menonite, taking about terra-forming, O'Neal Cylindors, AI and space travel. That would be a fantastically entertaining bonus episode!!
Imperium of man: allow us to introduce ourselves
@Mr Purple hello Mr. Purple
[excited Ark Mechanicus noises]
Go home I’m the post scarcity society here
@@nickwalker4936nah, you go home
Lets ALL go home, k?
The Methuselian Luddites of Mars with their discmans and baggy jeans
Madhijz "I'm against technology, man! It often creates positive change, and it's like, what am I going to whine about when things are good? Plus, technology is artificial! Nothing but ALL NATURAL up in here, dude! I mean, yeah, I still benefit from the Internet, medicine, shelter, games... - 24 hours of hypocrisy later - ...autonomous transportation... aw shucks, there's no way of me looking all high and mighty now, is there? Man, if only Wire didn't sell out and Joy Division stuck around long enough to sell out, then... like... DUDE..."
Malthusian? Or a comic book or sci fi reference?? Sorry I'm late.
@@stevenhoman2253 it's a refrence from the bible about a long lived man
discs and dorfs so yes, a sci fi reference. Lol Jokes aside, the OP was referencing a science fiction story, and not the Bible
@@tikiux5that's Methuselah
This technological terror means nothing compared to the power of the Force.
@GTCatFastCars Not in the slightest, hahaha
There's something very techno primitivist about this song.
lyricstranslate.com/en/hope-county-choir-keep-your-rifle-your-side-lyrics.html
" They'll come day and they'll come night,
They'll have our children in their sights,
But if they don't have Faith their eyes are blind.
They can scream and they can shout,
But they will never smoke us out.
Keep your rifle by your side.
Singing, "Oh, Lord, this Earth was made for us."
Singing, "Oh, Lord, this sinful life just ain't enough."
Let me hear the voice,
You know we have no other choice.
Keep your rifle by your side.
They'll have bombs and they'll have tanks,
Because they have money in their banks,
But we won't fall as long as we can fight.
They'll go on and preach their hate,
But they won't get past the gate
Keep your rifle by your side. "
They know their opponents are vicious ("They'll have our children in their sights") rich and well equipped ("They'll have bombs and they'll have tanks / Because they have money in their banks") but they also believe that faith, knowledge of terrain and a willingness to fight will give them the edge. Of course if you play the game this works out for them - their higher tech tormentors civilisation collapses under its own contradictions.
Long live to the Empire ! xD
*FURIOUS BINARY*
One of my cat's is very old and has a tumor on her palette that will eventually kill her. I'd been thinking recently about the idea of our pets living for centuries alongside us and what that might mean, glad to see you've got that covered :)
The 1999ians. A group of people dedicated to the use of tech available only up to 12/31/99.
DVD but no blue ray..
Internet yes but only on dial up..
I used to live a life like that.. But it was atleast over 20 years ago. Good times anyways.
Douggernaut84
Ah yes...
Those golden times when most games don’t require you to have an Internet connection.
😌
@@s0ulshot
Good times?!
Waiting 5 min+ for a computer to boot and the same time for downloading an animated gif looping after 5 sec?
Win 98 freezing if you looked at it oddly and having to do semi-magic rituals during boot to prevent crashes?
Get them rosa glasses off please... ;-)
@@s0ulshot
The 1980's and 1990's sucked. Trust me, I was there. You couldn't buy whatever thing you wanted/needed because the store was either out or hadn't bothered to get it. The internet was extremely expensive and took forever to load, so you would be waiting for at least twice the amount of time you were actually on the internet. Churches and Televangelists were everywhere. Everyone was constantly terrified that nuclear war would wipe out everything (at least the ones who weren't looking forward to the end of the world so they could go be with Jesus). It was a LOT easier for criminals to get away with literal murder. There was no UA-cam. Phones were large and hooked into the wall, unless you were rich, then they were brick sized and maybe gave you cancer (which far fewer people survived by the way).
If you enjoyed comics or anime you were considered a social degenerate. If you liked dungeons and dragons you were considered a demon worshiper (and that includes video games based on dungeons and dragons, from Baldur's Gate to The Elder Scrolls to Final Fantasy). Your parents would tell you that Heavy Metal music had hidden backward messages that would make demons possess your soul. If you listened to it (or any music made after the late 50s that wasn't Country or Christian) publicly you may have had a preacher conduct an exorcism on you (this happened to several of my friends). Your teachers would insist that evolution was not only untrue but was a conspiracy cooked up by Satan.
Curry of any kind was not available, let alone Mochi. If you wanted that you had to go to Japan or India (and there was no google translate, so good luck ordering it). David Duke, the head of the KKK was running for president, and seemed to have a chance of winning (and if you were me you had relatives who wanted him to win). This is what life was in the 80's and 90's where I lived. Those were not good times.
@@madshorn5826 5 minutes? What kind of toaster takes that long?
12:23: Looking forward to hearing about pets. I say dragon engineering get's it own (mini) episode.
I had a pet dragon once but it rolled a natural one on its fly check and crashed R.I.P Fluffy
Fantasy Engineering.
I want intelligent songbirds I can talk to i mean they have the physical capability unlike primates and there is at least one real example of a bird that could talk with humans in Alex the African Gray Parrot. Given it has been shown that the avian syrinx is fully capable of mimicking human speech, and actually quite a bit more versatile than our vocal cords, it could even lead to an avenue to upgrade our vocal abilities.
Also Birds and Crocodiles would be the optimal place to start if you wanted to develop living dragons as what place could be better to start from than from the last descendants of the animals that inspired the myths and legends through their fossilized remains? Communication would also be trivial with the avian syrinx which is basically a compact bi-modal upgrade to mammalian vocal cords....
If i ever get a pet dragon my enemies better buy some fireproof pajamas.
I wonder, "How to make a Dragon" would be a tempting bonus episode.
An example would be the Neo Catholics from the show Altered Carbon. The main thing in that series is a computer chip called a “stack” which every human is outfitted with. The Stack contains all the memories and everything that makes a persons mind. So if your body dies you can live again if your Stack is implanted in a new body. The Neo Catholics rejected the idea of living forever that way so they have their stacks modified so that if their body dies the stack does as well.
One part of this topic I think you missed is the idea that manual toggles for things are generally more robust then refined buttons and digital interfaces. Electromagnetic pulses aren't likely to disable a giant toggle switch but could easily fry a keyboard.
Oh I totally forgot it's Arthurs day, was going to bed but got the notification and my eyes popped open. Sleep delayed by 30 minutes then!
winkey + r
cmd.exe
shutdown -s -t 2100
that would tell your computer to shut down in 35 minutes. you could just crawl into bed and use these vids like a bedtime story.
@@MrJay_White I was actually listening to it from bed, as I'm usually rendering on my computer so I don't switch it off.
Me: "I don't know how Isaac could top this video"
Isaac Arthur: "Hold my drink and a snack"
_This is going to be a long one._
I noticed that when you talked about still preferring traditional pen and paper for writing down ideas, you were using a ballpoint pen, rather than a fountain pen. I think this actually shows an interesting point in this topic.
The ballpoint pen is a more advanced technology than the older fountain pen. The ballpoint was designed to address the issue of leakage with fountain pens. Instead of delivering the ink through capillary action, a tiny ball applies fresh ink as it rolls, and acts as a seal when not in use. However, this design came with a compromise with the feel of the pen in use.
Is the more advanced ballpoint "better" than the traditional fountain pen? Maybe. That depends largely on how you prioritize their differences. Is the feel of the pen worth the occasional leak? Is the limited selection of inks worth not refilling from a bottle? Some will prioritize the advantages of the older technology over the advantages of the newer technology.
You made me take it a step further…
Trying to imagine someone today, pulling out a feather quill and an ink bottle, lol.
Being someone who is surrounded by Amish in Lancaster County Pennsylvania. I would surmise that there isn't anything against being moved to another planet by someone else for the Amish, at least the Amish around where I live. I'll ask a few and update my response.
My current reasoning is as follows
1. Many Amish who do non farming jobs, such as building houses, renovations, installations of equipment and more get to their job site by means of riding in a pickup truck that takes them and their gear to the job site. They don't own nor drive the truck, rather a non Amish person does that. It's actually away alot of nom Amish people make money here, hauling Amish people around. These modern vehicles are highly advanced with all the computers and engineering that goes into them... Because of this, I could see them viewing riding a space ship to another world, as akin to being driven around by someone in a pickup truck.
2. For work and on their farms they use various off grid technologies, such as solar panels with a car battery and inverter to power electric fences, generators, powered fans and electric power tools. Because of this, I could easily see them being willing to use technology that would be required to keep them alive on a new world, a space suit or atmospheric containing dome.
Now to be clear, Amish are not homogenous, and further north from me is a sect(s) of Amish far stricter then the Amish around where I live. So they may be less prone to this.
I've lived in the Arcosanti project, and two other ecovillages, and I've taught over a hundred classes on sustainable design, and a dozen professional scale projects. My theory on this topic is: It is not about regressing for ideological purposes, it is about figuring out what things are actually most efficient at what scales. From my experiences, and knowledge set, as I see it as being on the flintstones and one of the Jetsons at the same time.
Civilizations don't need to be primitive in order to spend their days larping a primitive lifestyle.
Being primitive and thus forced to live a primitive existence is a tragedy.
Larping a primitive lifestyle is fun because you can stop anytime you want, hop in your a/c car and go grab dinner and a movie.
~"when you make a machine to do the work of a man, you take something away from the man"
Yes, his ability to make money doing that work.
Normal people don't work to give their life meaning, they work in return for money so they can buy the things they need and want.
Hopefully that short plug will bring new viewers to sfdebris.
You sir are fockin class. So much of your writing is brilliantly sharp and witty.
Future of Pets? You had my curiosity, now you have my attention
I second this.
Cat sized T-Rex
Catgirls.
i don't think it would change much. Despite all of our changes over the thousands of years, the life of pets has remained unchanged. The reason being, pets are companions not toys. My cat constantly knocks things off any edge, sits on my keyboard, eats plastic and vomits on the floor. All of these things annoy me, but at the same time i love it because it gives me something to genuinely care for, and teach. I don't think it will change, because i don't think there is anything to improve.
Happy Arthur's Day everybody!
next do sexy aliens
by popular demand you doing giant robots and power armor.
if you see all the likes i got in all my comments asking for sexy aliens you will know that an episode about sexy aliens is popular demand.
if this ever happens i think it will be the most popular video of the channel.
also Aprils 1st is gone so its gonna have to be a serious analyses on the subject
if you’re patient I think it would make for a great valentines episode next year.
He could compromise and do sexy robots instead.
Erwin Lommer I’m fine with this compromise
Ok, after hearing your empathy for the labor concerns, and historical awareness of them, now really want to watch a video of your explanations of the future crises of Capitalism, and potential diversities of socialism that might be applied to address the concerns of Capitalism, both pre & post scarcity.
In my opinion a very advance civilization, while having most goods and services produced by robots, would value immensely anything made by hand. I imagine that a lot of lower class working people might be self employed producing small amounts of very expensive novelty goods.
The same goes for anybody else. You might be a member of post scarcity civilization, who says you couldn't define your existence by growing your own food, or hunting with bow and spear. Especially if farmlands were no longer needed for mass production of food.
I agree. One can have lots of mass manufactured things like tools, dinner plates, etc. But one could still hold a certain sort of value towards something that was hand made by someone else, even if it is of lesser quality. Nostalgia, romanticism, sentimentality, etc would still allow certain old-fashioned things to exist. It is true in my case anyway.
Carlos Saraiva
I didn't say anything about spreading your butt cheeks for invading barbarians. So no, I'm not describing Sweden.
That is how literally was in the Star Trek. For reminder Picard own winery. The point is not to remove hand craft or money, because that definitely wasn't the case there. But that mass produced items were so cheap that you could spend your time doing any hobby, what included also artistic expression and replicator credits were legit currency so you could exchange own crafts, just everyone get decent basic social what didn't really strain budget as there was no real competition over resources.
@@TheRezro it’s like capitalism but with enough resources inflation doesn’t happen because of the core reason of you can only make so many things with what we have on earth. Once we get to the point we can automate most systems and manufacturing processes, we should also have the understanding of doing so while still operating from a net loss, as in still have the cost of living increase but not wages, or other factors that make having a full time job necessary, not only are bad ideas socially and ethically(by my standards) it’s also less efficient than just changing the standard of value to stop being what’s produced for mundane life. You aren’t making people pay for the infrastructure to keep it going at such a high rate and should have the energy to make it possible. You should be able to run an entire factory off your energy source, while also having available homes and food for everyone regardless of whether or not they make a certain amount of money.
Then what do you pay for? Anything you put value in. If your metric for increasing wealth isn’t based in a finite number of resources at any given time, and can adjust for changes in that should such a civilization actually live long enough to run out of resources anyway. I don’t even try to plan for timescales that big.
What becomes rare isn’t resources but individually created things. You don’t value you it because you can use it in any normal sense, you buy it because you like it and it’s cool, like a painting done by hand with the oldest known artistic tools. Classical musicians or other perosnal human performers of music would also be very popular.
It becomes a society where you pay for what you want rather than anything you need to survive.
Man...you are always so thorough. This is still easily my favorite thing on the internet!
ISAAC!!! I'm Soo glad I'm not the only one who still takes hand written notes. Great upload once again, I really can't tell you how much I'm enjoying your channel, suffice to say that I AM
PRAISE THE OMNISSIAH! PERFORM THE THE HOLY RITUAL OF KEEPING THE LIGHTS ON!
Techno Primitvism...new idea to me. Thanks.
I feel like this is more real and observant than what we acknowledge. I see tribes like the Hopi Indians being remains of a previous civilization. I think their culture reflects some of the previous civilization here on Earth, from a time when the technology was so balanced and developed that we worshiped it like the sun. Interesting subject.
"natural is better" is said without the understanding that asbestos, radon , lead, mercury &many other things, are all natural & these substances plagued previous societies that incorporated them into their infrastructure & amenities for all their more preferable qualities (which are great if not for all the mayhem they do to organic life-forms.) In reality, sometimes synthetic is better.
Also, I've really never had a job for more than a week, that I didn't want to completely automate, even the jobs I've spent a long time doing. I just don't want to be homeless and starving because those jobs are automated. I figure there are people going around replacing the computer and printer parts, something I could do, and that will be someone going around replacing the cogs and pistons and servos on all the robots. In reality, I could get a pay bump if my current employer replaced the jobs I'm doing. If the sales job I was doing was a hologram, and the material moving job I was doing was robotic, and I was just keeping that tech to spec and on task as an administrator, or trustee, or foreman, I probably could work less and get paid more, so long as all the tech didn't run off all the customers.
It's funny, some jobs have already become techno-primitive. There are certain situations where I was making 8 or 9 dollars an hour, and thought to myself, that those doing a similar job a couple of centuries ago would have at least had a mule or other beast of burden, on top of a many hands make light work approach, and instead, in certain situations, I was it because the employer didn't have power equipment, or beasts of burden, fucking heave ho, which is practically Neolithic effort. Sometimes modern economics & corporate administration & what appears to be stratified competencies in the labor pool creates totally bizarre situations.
It's more like Fallout's Vault program than anything else, some of us are getting early access to all the most advanced technologies, and others of us are having to do things without simple rigging practices (rope & pulley), or the benefit of animal husbandry. And if someone gets stuck in a job as backward as that, it's no wonder they think a primitive homestead, or a hunting cabin, or rural farm, is a step up... Of course, if they start milking cows or turning mules into plows they may get kicked in the gut and killed, or struggle with all the other things that lifestyle entails that my tenant farming ancestors told me about, not the least of which is getting increasingly disconnected from the modern economy, in a situation where inflation of fiat currencies isn't exactly ever going to go away, and where rich developers can just wait around for you to fall behind on taxes to get all the bargain basement land you purchased at even lower price than you. (Assuming you're not just squatting on someone else's land, and that has all kinds of other pitfalls & dangers associated with it.)
The difference between me and a lot of cats going regressive is that I know the past wasn't all that great. Shit, loosers in this economy hang out at gas-stations just wasting their lives away looking for their next fix with (more often than not) reasonable access to clothing, shelter, food, if they get sick none of us know how they or the government are going to pay for it. Meanwhile, losers in the previous economies always ended up in an early grave because of the brutality of nature or someone else, but if they got kicked by a mule, someone would send for a doctor & he'd show up like a pizza-boy, and 1 times out of 4 he'd practice some form of complete quackery. We got some real knots to untie in our current circumstances, but that doesn't mean we should think the past did it better. There's always trade-offs when humanity changes up the game.
strycnine, cyanide, oh yeah man natural is the way to go.
Don't forget, cancer and dying of bacterial infections are pretty natural too. So is getting eaten by predators.
Seven BILLION people on the planet, each of which wants, needs, even deserves the simplest of respectable circumstances... and you YOURSELF, Tixe, said "I just don't want to be broke and homeless because the robots are doing those jobs".
Every human out there wants to do something with PURPOSE. It's not even about specifically working one's ass off all his life to fall into an early grave... just to say "I'm the kind of man who died with his boots on"...
It's about knowing WHY one pushed a wrench for thirty f***ing years.
That said... What do you suppose happens among seven BILLION (7,000,000,000) people when there's already a couple hundred BILLION robots to do anything with any purpose at all?
Robots push wrenches (if those even exist) to fix and maintain all the robots doing 'useful labor'... Robots to check and maintain all the sub-structure of the robots "pushing wrenches" for the robots keeping everyone alive... AND someone STILL owes all that money for electricity to keep the lights on, water flowing (pumps, filters, treatment centers)...
Sure... SOMEONE gets a pay-bump "upward" when the simplicity of a sales job turns into a supervisory job for the hundreds and thousands of robots on the "floor" or running through algorithms in the web-shopping-emporium...
Who the hell promised that would be YOU out of 7,000,000,000 people? Where did you graduate... in a class of how many? Top ten? Top five? Valedictorian?
Because out of those 7,000,000,000 people out there, if you ain't got Valedictorian? You probably ain't even worth putting in front of a college... let alone through it. No Magna-cum-laude, and a mountain of debt? You're screwed... unhirable. forget it.
The rest of us have a machine that already does the job better and faster and cheaper than you ever will. Congrat's worthless. Enjoy going to prison, because drugs aren't even worth enough to get your debt unloaded before you're caught... by third-gen' machine learned robo-cops.
Look, I grew up in the sticks. I KNOW just how horrible and dangerous all that "nature" is. SO hell, no, I'm not about to pledge a life of living like a damn Roman. Forget a bunch of that noise...
Maybe... just maybe... NOT making money any more intangible than it already is would be a slightly more sensible ideal. NOT dubiously putting robots into every possible working function that used to be a human being, simply because furniture can "technically" be feasibly built by slamming brads and nails into everything with a butt-join or bridle-joint instead of actually having someone with the "spirit of creativity" work with actual craftsmanship to make a product to last, even if it takes about five times as long. Maybe NOT moving from plastic to further synthetics for EVERY possible notion and product on the planet would be a slightly more sane ideal than the dubious "fashionable" paradigm of whatever the "latest fancy material invention" is absolutely MUST be the best thing ever for everything.
Just like Isaac Arthur pointed out in the video, the protests of those arguing against some facet of technology is often exaggerated out of hand...
SO how long would you prefer to live homeless, broke, and/or (probably) bouncing between too wasted to care and too sick to move... or would that suddenly "brutal demise" of nature start to sound a hell of a lot quicker and more painless in the very slightly bigger picture???
I'm wondering because you can certainly type up a great game, but I doubt your experience. ;o)
gnarth d'arkanen You assume too much that people, culture, and laws won’t change with the technology, but it has always been the opposite
@@EpicEliteSnipe Down the Rabbit hole, recently did a good video on Universe 25, a study of rats in a colony that had everything done for them... They had no want or need unfulfilled and with virtually no risk or real effort required.
It was shut down with the few remaining rats at around 300 days... with terrifying conclusions.
I know... "People are not rats."
Watch the video, and then take a long couple days to examine news on TV, read some actual news print... check out the feeds at reputable sources... and get back to me on that.
Pay particular attention to how that rats were categorized and described (by habits) through the main experiment.
No, I don't assume people and laws won't change. I've read my history, too. Did you actually not notice my outright aversion to "Living like a damn Roman"???
I can see FAR too many frightening parallels to the rats getting all they wanted, and in spite of that, they did NOT die out from over-population... which would have only been remotely possible... that thing was enormous.
I suggest when(IF) you DO get back to me... try reading AND absorbing the whole passage... OR you can leave it "open" for reference. My formatting might read a bit "wonky", but it's set up for relatively quick references... JUST for the laughable purpose of replies not being so poorly thought out. ;o)
Technology and Sciences behind it are neither Good nor Bad, it is those that use it. The oft quoted WW2 German scientist's feeling, "It worked beautifully, it just landed on the wrong planet."
"I aim vor the moon, but sometimes i hit london"
Oh this is a new one! I recently found the channel and have been hopping around recommended next videos of yours, but found a new one this time. :)
You should watch the Outward Bound series.
i have been. I should probably watch them in order though.
Excellent point about high-tech giving you more choice about what technology not to use.
IIRC, the Nox the team encounters are more-or-less on an extended vacation/camping trip. Society wise, they had basically the ultimate cloaking technology, so they could choose to forgo weapons and such. They also had Clarketech levels of medical and other tech (as well as very long lives), so going to live in a hut in the woods for a few year or decades is recreation/education.
The "unnatural" argument is a flawed one because we aren't the only animals that use tools are build things. If a human house is "not natural" then what about a bird's nest, bee hive, beaver dam, and etc?
After all how can something that is natural make something that is not natural? It's all just an arbitrary line.
Another great episode. Thanks to everyone involved for all the hard work.
EPISODE SUGGESTION: Speculative evolution. I know pets will be tackled, but what about plants and animals (or even primitive humans) left in the wild (for a given value of wild)?
Imagine this: An environmentalist group sees that there is a lack of will to protect nature as they see it. They opt for a practical solution and decide to send bits of nature into space where urban sprawl won't touch it. Unlike in the movie Silent Running, these guys decide to go big, O'Neil cylinder big. Either through a lack of perpetual funding or a reluctance to interfere with the new nature that they created, the animals will drift genetically. How would plants and animals evolve to take advantage of this new ecosystem? (This experiment could be considered for any other world, including a terraformed planet, such as Mars, or even the urban jungles of future Earth.)
Isaac Arthur's videos are the only videos where I hit the like button before I've even watched it.
>got excited that he was gonna talk archeofuturism.
>looked at title again.
>nuts.
nuts
I love this channel so much! Amish, Mennonites and Zapp Brannigan evoked in the same science video? I'm subscribed now.
I find it incredibly hard to believe that anyone can look around at the state of society today and see the trajectory the world is on and still think we’re headed for some technological utopia rather than the nightmarish dystopia that’s virtually inevitable at this point
I love the casual mentions of Zap Branagan and curbsromping in an otherwise very intellectual video.
The video should be near silent with technology/nature sounds and the subtitles explain everything :)
Seeing your notebook full of SFIA notes was oddly one of the best parts of this episode. But the rest was awesome too!
Techno Primitivism is my new DJ name haha.
The problem with this video is, there are two very different ideologies that have the name techno-primitivism. The political ideology, also called techprim or archeofuturism, actually promotes scientific acceleration leading to transhumanism, and hugely support space expansion, while simultaneously wanting a primitive middle age cultural environment (low pollution, more cultural integrity).
The one that Arthur is discussing is very different.
a video on your version of techprim from Isaac would be great. Terrence McKenna touched on the idea back when he was alive, but just as a concept. He didn't get into the nuts and bolts of it the way Isaac would.
Watching this, and then ClarkeTech (magic tech) right after. What a perfect combo.
"just because we can, doesn't mean we should." I think that is the core value of such mindsets, and honestly, I can agree with that. capitalist markets create artificial wants they then can fulfil, thats what Ads are. being able to Say NO is an important skill, especially in our era of excess.
Olden Day Skills
One thing learned from the Prepper movement is that old superseded skills can be forgotten.
A far more dangerous problem.
When I think of this I recall The Hitchhikers Guide (Golgafrinchan Ark Fleet Ship B)
telephone sanitisers, account executives and hairdressers
No. Never forgotten! Humans are good at reinventing the wheel.
@@rodgermyles2871 wheel yes but how bout all the steps from the wheel to the amd threadripper cpu? best to make sure those skills like how to etch cheips how to make lathes ectra are not forgotten either
@@rodgermyles2871 the wheel is easy the axel not so much
I think that love for old things is partly based in the idea that old things are a bit of a luxury. Nice old things tell people you can afford the extra money to acquire and use such a thing.
Like with a straight razor. Not only could you afford one you can afford all the extra time it takes to sharpen, clean and shave. Time/money is not so scarce to you that you use this old method.
Techno-primitivism will likely be popular only until their health fails. Or the health of a loved one.
At this point technology will be real popular.
3rd world tribesmen are healthier than western people (not taking into account infectious diseases). Processed foods, GMO, pollution, radiation. overuse of pharmaceuticals all build up in your organism. Why do you think cancer rates, respiratory and digestive disorders, alergies etc. etc. are constantly on the rise even with modern medicine.
"until their health fails". Except one of the likeliest scenarios that was described in the video for such a movement to be popular is when humans are not affected by mortality or sickness, thus allowing them to live out their idealized perception of the past. Like the whole point of adding "techno" to it is that it's not pure primitivism, it's primitivist ideals reinterpreted through a technologically advanced lens, allowing the ideal to be possible.
Awesome as always, Isaac,... I'm currently listening to every single release via Soundcloud Podcasts, I'll also be listening to this one again, very soon.
Thanks, again.
I will point out that we do have examples of the guy living in the cabin in the woods who *does* hate civilization. The Unabomber comes to mind.
Another possible angle "techno-primitivism" could take would be a society with highly-advanced biological, ecological, and genetic sciences that replaces conventional technologies with living creatures. SF examples include the Yuuzhan Vong (Star Wars EU), Species 8742 (Star Trek) and arguably, the Na'vi from Avatar. It's at least conceivable that such a civilization could be capable spacefarers without much that looks like "technology" as we know it.
you remind me of Winnie the pooh's voice. instead of honey you like superstructures.
one thing not covered about the "hard work builds better humans" line of thought is with enough tech you could probably artificially create or influence whatever "better human" traits you want even if you discount fully or mostly computerized people.
*Sees title* Ooh, Adeptus Mechanicus scenario?
Exodites is what I thought of.
“In ancient times, men built wonders, laid claim to the stars and sought to better themselves for the good of all. But we are much wiser now”
-unknown mechanicus tech priest
@@hithere5553 I see you are also versed in the theology of the Mechanicus. Most impressive. Just remember, in the words of Tech-Priest Jung "Our enemies may rest but rust never sleeps." Stay vigilant, brother.
The beauty of seeing a lancer class frigate being built by cavemen.
The writing on paper thing isn't necessarily irrational. The act of physically writing has been shown to engage areas of the brain related to working memory and language. Intentional irony is also pretty entertaining and that's good for your brain as well, so running a science and futurism channel and employing hand made paper is just the smart thing to do.
I think what people want is not primitivism, but they want out of the modern rat-race, out of the cities they are forced to live in in order to have a career/job/secure their childrens future. A study showed that one in three people in the city of Helsinki did not want to live there but had to due to job/schools, only 34% of the finnish people when asked prefered to live in a city if given the choice. And I remember another american article saying the same thing about young people leaving rural areas there, they feel they have to.
What people want (not all people, but certainly to a greater degree than our current society thinks and allows for) is the small scale but our society says no, capitalism demands urbanization, centralization and mass consumption. BUT IMO humans are naturally inclined to prefer to form smaller social groups with higher levels of trust between individuals and high degrees of equality. These egalitarian small societies though are something technology can help bring about, not stop. The problems in our society are political, not technological.
Our "ancestral environment" was tribes, it makes sense.
Now... should we go back to tribe-grouping, real of artificial ?
Or should we train/modify ourselves for city+ size ?
There’s a solution to this: abolish capitalism.
Always look forward to Thursday. Thank you sir!
If there is a lack of struggle and challange, we can simply create those ourselves.
Indeed, i see that every day.
yes, it like a snake eating itself. no more enemies out of the tribe, let's find them within.
Begin the purity trials!
Great episode. It is interesting to think of how increasing lifespans (and thus increased preference for the familiar) and improving technology will mesh.
One of the things i'm planning on including in a game I'm making: different ideologies, including primitives, will settle their own systems. Primitives will generally hire an uploaded mind or full AI to haul them in cryosleep to that system, terraform or paraterraform an area for them, and leave them there with nothing more than basic infrastructure.
12:45 I cannot express how much this applies to me. As someone who enjoys writing computer programs that often use low-level and difficult interfaces(like, say, a terminal), and someone who prefers to use terminal variants of programs over their GUI counterparts, this applies to me greatly. I've come to the partial conclusion that it's because of the aesthetic. There's just something about using a terminal that appeals more than a typical GUI would. As for the low-level interfaces, that's most likely because I enjoy feeling like I'm "reinventing" technology. By using low-level interfaces to solve problems, I'm using the very things that were used back then to solve those same problems.
A N A R C H O P R I M I T I V I S M
Are you using your wooden computer to comment here? Hah! Liberals owned.
LIBERTARIAN SIMPLISM
@@s0ulshot No he's using his iPhone X, because anarcho-primitivists don't do primitivism by other people's rules ;)
@@MrBlvck-iv6dg 😑
I remember reading a sci-fi novel years ago about a monarchist space empire that had some technolgy, like spaceships, space elevators, and a nuclear powered train, but otherwise is like living in victorian times!
Ted Kaczynski has some good points about the dangers of technology. The hardships of a more primitive lifestyle is part of what makes life better.
William Burns Who’s to say that it wasn’t? I’ve met many people who lived in essentially primitivistic villages, where they worked the land and lived very humbly. Most were actually very content and had a serenity that I can’t really describe. They took pleasure in life’s simplicities. Meanwhile in the big city all I see is people milling about, usually avoiding eye contact or staring at their phones, rude and rushed, etc. You can practically taste the thinly veiled misery.
If I had a choice I know which of the two I’d choose.
Now there's something I'd like to see. Isaac Arthur Explains O'Neill Cylinders (And Other Extraterrestrial/Extrasolar Options) To An Amish Person would be incredibly interesting to see. Would they be interested in the idea of potentially living in their own cylinder? Or settling a new world should the option arise (unlikely as that may be any time soon)? So many questions!
Future solution:
Imagine that star trek village, clean and prosperous, yet low seemingly low tech and natural. But imagine that as you look closely, you see tiny semblence of power sockets tucked away from plain sight (power tools are used only in emergencies). The well in the village looks medieval, but has a water filtration/purification system.The houses appear to be made of wood, but the walls are lined with non-flammable, thermally insulated material (in case the winter is too tough). The people seem to only wear simple clothes, and posses basic medicine (but everyone is vaccinated from most illnesses, and there is a robot MedEvac chopper on stand-by 24/7 a few hundred meters away from the village)
In short: You can attempt to live that primitive lifestyle (and have the benefits of that), with the backup of modern tech (to avoid all the negatives of that primitive lifestyle)
To some degree this is already the case in USA - look at how modern farmers live. A simple life, but with all the comforts of modern safety and security services...
Sounds more like a fake primitivist show to me rather than a good hybrid, although close. Simple and natural are not the exact words which should be used towards what we should become in near future. The word we're looking for is ascetic, thrifty maybe. Waste as little as possible (that includes a whole lot of things that many "progressives" dare not even question), move resources towards space, build-up our space presence, make sure we can continue to live and have a back-up colony just in case something drastic and unavoidable happens. How do you know whether or not we'll get fried tomorrow by a gamma ray burst? What if we will be in 30 years? 30 years sound like about enough time to prepare a back-up colony, don't you think?
@@HadzabadZa Absolutely, I think we can do that. My point was more about the psychological aspects of decorative infrastructure design. Also once automation fully kicks in - only 10-15% of population (due to their IQ) will do any research/space exploration (which is what you mentioned). The rest will be able to live this primitive, yet safe, natural lifestyle and only have to worry about trying to plough their fields with minimal modern tech and finding themselves a spouse.
So in effect - we will do both - simply because people's needs vary a lot...
@@filipskotnica971 Look at twitter.com/wrathofgnon?lang=en posts, it features good criticism of modernity from a traditional viewpoint with good examples. Automation is not really a good decision if you want to create things like permaculture farms, even some high-level decisions like neural network planning and some kind of drone swarm intelligence would probably not suffice, so even proper farming is quite high IQ actually. And those high-IQ spacemen still would need support from the farmers and other labourers at least in terms of food. Also, we better doggone keep automation away from women and reproduction, I'm not in favour of a new, more efficient reproductor taking over us.
I was scrolling too...had to restart the video after 3 mins in. Can't miss any of the talking points. Love this guy👍
The physical therapy I need/ed to recover from a major illness has led me to an active physical lifestyle that has many people I know shaking their heads in wonder. But I still value modern technology, and want to remain part of the 21st Century. There are indeed plenty of character building challenges and lots of hard work to do, even if one owns a PC and a smartphone.
Techno Primitivism? do you mean Amish?
Or Star Wars...
Did you watch it?
The backstory of Warframe takes an interesting spin on this trope. (this is off the top of my head, some parts might be incomplete or inaccurate)
The super advanced any technology-reliant Orokin Empire had their terraforming machines, the Sentients, rebel against them. One of the main features of a Sentient is that it can rapidly adapt to damage it suffers, mitigating the impact of that particular damage in the future. Being able to rapidly adapt to heated environment when caught in a forest fire, for example.
When the newly-rebelled Sentients returned from their terraforming mission to exterminate their masters, it was clear that they can rapidly adapt to high-tech Orokin weaponry and make it ineffective. As a result, Sentients were wiping the floor with the opposition, until a Sentient raider that attacked a manual labor camp, was unexpectedly damaged by a slave's vibro-shovel-thing, and forced to retreat.
The Orokin realized that while the Sentients easily adapt to their high tech weapons, they have trouble doing that with actual kinetic damage.
This resulted in the Orokin deploying zero-tech soldiers, equipped with "percussion rifles" (probably similar to today's assault rifles), melee weapons and unpowered armor en masse to try to fend off the invasion. It wasn't really enough though, and they deployed a whole series of horrible and uncontrollable weapon experiments, all hell-bent to dance around the Sentient's adaptability, one of which were the titular Warframes.
This comment section is hereby claimed by
*A N P R I M G A N G*
hand over your pacemakers
That demand violates the NAP.
BOTH OPTIONS ANGERS THE GODS!!!
YOUR DISSIDENT ACTIVITY SHALL BE PUNISHED BY THE CHAIRMEN HIMSELF!
Made by NAZBOL GANG
AnPrim using UA-cam? Hah, libcucks defeated.
Everyone gets a thousand sticks!
Made by Yangprim Gang
Fancy seeing you folks here.
🙂
I think it's important that, while your characterization of historical Luddites is correct, contemporary groups who chose to describe themselves as Luddites have a much more regressive view on technology, much more in line with the contemporary stereotype of a "Luddite". Romanticizing primitive cultures, demonizing automation, etc. While their regressive and stupid opposition to technology (as a group) is fairly narrow, being focused primarily only on one thing, I would definitely include anti-vaxxers in the contemporary Luddite category.
Watching this at 2am at night on my phone. Loving technology using my primitive ape emotions
People: Life was so good in the old days.
The old days: short lifespans, children dying from vaccine-preventable diseases, 50% of women dying in childbirth.
Yes, good old times... ultra-conservatives are idiots, if you didn't noticed that yet.
He declares this channel tech heresy.
Some really interesting thoughts here on the psychology of technological progress. Too oftern this aspect of progress is overlooked or oversimplified.
Issac-sempai, make a video on fermi about caijus and giant mechs, in a comedy tone would be great, i think u can even patch that to a random saturday video
Maickel Vieira it’s coming up, see the upcoming schedule
i do see that you could live in a completely natural area, and in your home you could have all the confort and technology of the captial of the universe. is what happens in the U.S. already: rural areas are abundant of Nature, but on the houses of folks living there, you have internet, fridges, all the necessities of a modern home and maybe even solar pannels for local energy generation and water pipes for local water generation and waste disposal to sewers. one could live isolated on the woods, but have a hovercar to use when they wanna go buy groceries in the capital market, or better yet have drones deliver them the stuff. a "life in the woods" in my view, does not mean that you would divorce completely of technology, you and your home would have it, but you would be able to be immersed in nature once you step out of your home.
Low tech solutions to high tech problems is sometimes a great thing. But I can understand where you're coming from.
Modern problems sometimes don't require modern solutions.
I love the concept high-low-tech.
At the time where Danish trains got an electronic button to lock the toilet doors, the new Swedish trains got a steel latch with a lever arm.
Simple, intuitive and everybody could open it.
The first year the Danish doors _mostly_ stayed close when you needed them to.
Now they are fine, but...
Me hitting my television to make it work
@@idonhaveanyideawhattocallm1472 Percussive Maintenance is sometimes required to quell the disobedience of the machine spirit.
27:50. That's probably the best way to slide over into sponsored content I've ever seen.
You got to wounder, would this create Techno Barbarians?
like space vikings?
Only during the Age of Strife on Ancient Terra and the rise of the Emperor of Mankind.
I think the Belters from The Expanse is quite decent example of the case.
Great way to start my Thursday, Thanks!
Primitivism is all well and good... till you or your loved ones get sick.
'primitive' is relative in this case. Had you reached the example about the functionally immortal transhuman living as a hunter-gatherer when you made this comment?
I said the same. Before I saw your comment. I'll give you credit for being first
That's why nature initially designed our circumstances the way it did, to not give us a chance of going around its intended purpose. If I'm making any sense
What if the primitives are 20th century earth in the 25th century?
Douggernaut84 People used to have a very resigned attitude when it came to death. Even plagues and famines eventually because just another facet of life. In my opinion, the modern phobia of death is more unhealthy, and your comment really highlights it.
Really enjoyed this video. It even seemed liked the quality of the narration was better. Anyway good work.
Are the Amish a modern day version of Techno-Primitivism? I can see an Amish like civilization in the far future.
If humans ever build a galactic civilization across 100,000,000,000 star systems with a total population of 10^30, then I'm sure there were be thousands (millions?) of planets that decide to go techno-primitive.
*I'm really really really really excited for the power armor episode .*
*Make it long and detailed .*
The problems with automation is due to problems with capitaism
Absolute truth! Though for clarity, only dated extreme interpretation of capitalism. Automation is far lesser issue in societies with decent social-capitalism.
Reflects out tendency to polarise and arrive at outcomes after a confrontational process between opposites.
This, however is a more thoughtful analysis of the sort we need to promulgate to our legislators.
this is the beginning of the Butlerian Jihad.. Issac is from the planet Ix I beleive...