I agree but I would argue there should be separate degree programs for men and women. Where I went, the seminary allowed women to pursue the Pastoral Ministry degree. It was very awkward knowing the school was teaching and preparing women to be pastors, while supposedly not supporting woman pastors.
A degree is just a degree, nothing more. God honors the Pastor in terms of the office and if he meet biblical scriptures requirement. Apostles never had any degrees.
I agree with you as well. However I don’t think it’s biblical for women to be pastors. Because there teaching the men. Don’t know if that’s what you meant. That’s just my two sense. 😅
The following is my reply to a guy who asked me: "What teachings specifically do you disagree with?", which he posted in the comments to a Jonathan Con video titled: "02/24/2019, We Will Know This Truth! It Will Come Soon!" Here's my reply (edited): @ Scott Hall ~ As far as the teachings go, one thing I object to is these self-appointed do-gooder religionists violating Hebrews 6:1-3 (King James Version) in which the Holy Spirit proscribed majoring on the elementary principles of the faith, and their making use of those elementary teachings to exploit Christians (who lack spiritual discernment and spiritual experience) for their own self-aggrandizement. One reason it works so well for them is because the elementary principles are all most Christians are familiar with, and hearing the religionists recite what they know comforts them and makes them feel spiritual (when nothing could be further from the truth), which in turn ends up being one of the fundamental ingredients of the itching ears syndrome which the Apostle Paul foretold about in 2 Tim. 4:3-4 (King James Version). Another thing (the main thing) I object to about it is the spirit behind it. About twenty five years ago an old Christian prophet named Art Katz made the statement that whenever a preacher walks up to the pulpit, if he doesn't already have the anointing of the Holy Spirit when he gets there, but goes ahead and preaches anyway, that he will automatically have the anointing of the Spirit of Antichrist (i.e. counterfeit Christ who seeks to mimic the Holy Spirit). I agree with that, but I would add that I think what happens is that they get anointed by religious spirits (who are groomed by the kingdom of darkness overlords to mimic the Holy Spirit). But then, the Spirit of Antichrist is the leader of the kingdom of darkness (per Revelation 13:2, King James Version), and is over all the religious spirits, and in unity with them spiritually, so in that sense what he said is correct. Back during the period from the late 90's through about 2007 Art Katz had an excellent website, but he passed on in 2007 and not long afterward some do-gooder religionists took it over and pretty much ruined it. I think it may still be up under the title "Ben Israel." They kept quite a number of his articles and sermons, all of which are very good (because he had the anointing of the Holy Spirit), but the most profound ones are gone. So I never look at the website any more and haven't in years. Anyway, as I said, the main thing I object to about what these do-gooder religionists on UA-cam are doing is the spirit by which they speak. Seeing as how you're a fan of Jonathan Con you probably won't believe this (but it's the absolute truth), which is that there isn't a single person posting videos on UA-cam who speaks by the anointing of the Holy Spirit (they're all running on soul power, most of which is energized by religious spirits). I've been looking for such a person for years and I haven't found a single one. And I challenge you to find one, just one. And if you find one please come back here and post a link to it because I'd like to see it. I really would.
Jim Yost to bad God spoke through the prophets before now he has SPOKEN to us through his SON... read God’s word stop believing the continuationist lies
The last bit, where he doesn’t see why a woman shouldn’t therefore (since they are teaching other women and children) have theological instruction as good as any man in seminary, I have a few thoughts. First, we do have several women going to seminaries such as Southern who are currently pastors or are planning to be pastors. What they do with the education, the seminary cannot be in charge of, of course, but there is a tendency for this to happen. Second, there may be some possibility of competing interests from women in any given church. If there are several women who are better educated than their pastor and are bringing new and culturally exciting ideas into their congregation while the pastor continues to stay the course of ‘merely’ preaching the word, some women might tend to make the more educated women their source of pastoral authority. Third, many women who get these degrees and Are not hired as a professional teacher or professor (I.e. Doctor of Ministry or Ph.D.) in a seminary or other school, often end up in churches under various titles relating to women’s or children’s ministry or music ministry or counseling. These positions are not abundant and do not pay nearly as much as if they were themselves pastors. Fourth, is there any biblical precedent for it? What was the course of training children throughout the Old Testament? Im uncertain if Gamelial (sic?) or Paul would have taken on a young girl to train up in the type of education he gave Timothy. I believe their response to such an insinuation might be rather difficult to bear for many women and men in seminary. Fifth, I’m certain Southern Seminary is doing a fantastic job in training women for ministry. And I presume they will deeply instill the warning verses about women speaking or teaching in the church within the curriculum. But since these are such debated and culturally disliked doctrines which Southern teaches, perhaps we should be more open about them in videos such as these, which are in some small way, an advertisement to women to attend seminary there. Sixth, and this is a difficult point to discuss and I hope it does not offend any one, but concerning the issue that women should teach other women, it strikes me that there Is a place in Scripture where, context seems to indicate, we find women desiring to understand something either about the sermon during a church service or about their own thoughts outside of that service, and they were asking these questions during the service. This seems to me, if women are to be teachers of other women in the sense in which Southern affirms, for the Apostle to say, “Let her not ask the pastor during the service, but rather let her ask the learned women in the church afterwards.” Forgive my trite setup.... but what does he actually say? Paul responds by saying it is shameful for women to speak in church (I realize this is a difficult passage for us). Then he says they should ask, not other women, but their husbands. This is either for the husbands to ask during the service (as some congregations still practice) or to simply answer her directly from his own resource. Seventh, and lastly (yes, I realize no one is still reading, its just for my own thoughts), What is the highest virtue of a woman in the church? Is it not to be a devoted wife, mother, and servant of the church? These aspects were not highlighted during my time at Southeastern Seminary. I hope we are not letting the glory of womanhood and feminine virtues to be eclipsed by the spirit of our age which values education/learning/degrees as more important than the historical path for women, which is the path taken by the mother of our Lord. In any case it is an issue which I’ve not given as much thought to as Dr. Mohler (but in my defense virtually everyone I know could say that about almost anything in respect to him!), and I trust very much his ministry and wisdom. I offer these points not as attacks, but considerations, which I’m certain have already been asked in the past by wiser minds than mine, and likely answered, but I just don’t have that answer, or what I have found thus far has not been convincing to me at least. May we have the mind of Christ in love in these deliberations.
we are all ministers. i assume you mean elders? Eph 4:7 Now grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of the Messiah’s gift. 8 For it says: When He ascended on high, He took prisoners into captivity;[c] He gave gifts to people.[d] 9 But what does “He ascended” mean except that He[e] descended to the lower parts of the earth?[f] 10 The One who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill[g] all things. 11 And He personally gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, 12 for the training of the saints in the work of ministry, to build up the body of Christ, 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of God’s Son, growing into a mature man with a stature measured by Christ’s fullness.
Praise God for your faithfulness.
Albert Mohler is one of the great thinkers of our time.
behind many wesleys are the suzannahs that taught them. that does not mean they are elders but have a high calling nonetheless
Amen.
Does SBTS still have the "free if you're black, pay if you're white" policy?
Not at all!
I agree but I would argue there should be separate degree programs for men and women.
Where I went, the seminary allowed women to pursue the Pastoral Ministry degree. It was very awkward knowing the school was teaching and preparing women to be pastors, while supposedly not supporting woman pastors.
A degree is just a degree, nothing more. God honors the Pastor in terms of the office and if he meet biblical scriptures requirement. Apostles never had any degrees.
I agree with you as well. However I don’t think it’s biblical for women to be pastors. Because there teaching the men.
Don’t know if that’s what you meant. That’s just my two sense. 😅
The following is my reply to a guy who asked me: "What teachings specifically do you disagree with?", which he posted in the comments to a Jonathan Con video titled: "02/24/2019, We Will Know This Truth! It Will Come Soon!" Here's my reply (edited):
@ Scott Hall ~ As far as the teachings go, one thing I object to is these self-appointed do-gooder religionists violating Hebrews 6:1-3 (King James Version) in which the Holy Spirit proscribed majoring on the elementary principles of the faith, and their making use of those elementary teachings to exploit Christians (who lack spiritual discernment and spiritual experience) for their own self-aggrandizement.
One reason it works so well for them is because the elementary principles are all most Christians are familiar with, and hearing the religionists recite what they know comforts them and makes them feel spiritual (when nothing could be further from the truth), which in turn ends up being one of the fundamental ingredients of the itching ears syndrome which the Apostle Paul foretold about in 2 Tim. 4:3-4 (King James Version).
Another thing (the main thing) I object to about it is the spirit behind it. About twenty five years ago an old Christian prophet named Art Katz made the statement that whenever a preacher walks up to the pulpit, if he doesn't already have the anointing of the Holy Spirit when he gets there, but goes ahead and preaches anyway, that he will automatically have the anointing of the Spirit of Antichrist (i.e. counterfeit Christ who seeks to mimic the Holy Spirit). I agree with that, but I would add that I think what happens is that they get anointed by religious spirits (who are groomed by the kingdom of darkness overlords to mimic the Holy Spirit). But then, the Spirit of Antichrist is the leader of the kingdom of darkness (per Revelation 13:2, King James Version), and is over all the religious spirits, and in unity with them spiritually, so in that sense what he said is correct.
Back during the period from the late 90's through about 2007 Art Katz had an excellent website, but he passed on in 2007 and not long afterward some do-gooder religionists took it over and pretty much ruined it. I think it may still be up under the title "Ben Israel." They kept quite a number of his articles and sermons, all of which are very good (because he had the anointing of the Holy Spirit), but the most profound ones are gone. So I never look at the website any more and haven't in years.
Anyway, as I said, the main thing I object to about what these do-gooder religionists on UA-cam are doing is the spirit by which they speak. Seeing as how you're a fan of Jonathan Con you probably won't believe this (but it's the absolute truth), which is that there isn't a single person posting videos on UA-cam who speaks by the anointing of the Holy Spirit (they're all running on soul power, most of which is energized by religious spirits). I've been looking for such a person for years and I haven't found a single one. And I challenge you to find one, just one. And if you find one please come back here and post a link to it because I'd like to see it. I really would.
Jim Yost to bad God spoke through the prophets before now he has SPOKEN to us through his SON... read God’s word stop believing the continuationist lies
@@jasonharkness2992 ~ Jason Harkness ~ You came to this Southern Seminary site and you're telling me to stop believing lies? SMH.
The last bit, where he doesn’t see why a woman shouldn’t therefore (since they are teaching other women and children) have theological instruction as good as any man in seminary, I have a few thoughts.
First, we do have several women going to seminaries such as Southern who are currently pastors or are planning to be pastors. What they do with the education, the seminary cannot be in charge of, of course, but there is a tendency for this to happen.
Second, there may be some possibility of competing interests from women in any given church. If there are several women who are better educated than their pastor and are bringing new and culturally exciting ideas into their congregation while the pastor continues to stay the course of ‘merely’ preaching the word, some women might tend to make the more educated women their source of pastoral authority.
Third, many women who get these degrees and Are not hired as a professional teacher or professor (I.e. Doctor of Ministry or Ph.D.) in a seminary or other school, often end up in churches under various titles relating to women’s or children’s ministry or music ministry or counseling. These positions are not abundant and do not pay nearly as much as if they were themselves pastors.
Fourth, is there any biblical precedent for it? What was the course of training children throughout the Old Testament? Im uncertain if Gamelial (sic?) or Paul would have taken on a young girl to train up in the type of education he gave Timothy. I believe their response to such an insinuation might be rather difficult to bear for many women and men in seminary.
Fifth, I’m certain Southern Seminary is doing a fantastic job in training women for ministry. And I presume they will deeply instill the warning verses about women speaking or teaching in the church within the curriculum. But since these are such debated and culturally disliked doctrines which Southern teaches, perhaps we should be more open about them in videos such as these, which are in some small way, an advertisement to women to attend seminary there.
Sixth, and this is a difficult point to discuss and I hope it does not offend any one, but concerning the issue that women should teach other women, it strikes me that there Is a place in Scripture where, context seems to indicate, we find women desiring to understand something either about the sermon during a church service or about their own thoughts outside of that service, and they were asking these questions during the service. This seems to me, if women are to be teachers of other women in the sense in which Southern affirms, for the Apostle to say, “Let her not ask the pastor during the service, but rather let her ask the learned women in the church afterwards.” Forgive my trite setup.... but what does he actually say? Paul responds by saying it is shameful for women to speak in church (I realize this is a difficult passage for us). Then he says they should ask, not other women, but their husbands. This is either for the husbands to ask during the service (as some congregations still practice) or to simply answer her directly from his own resource.
Seventh, and lastly (yes, I realize no one is still reading, its just for my own thoughts), What is the highest virtue of a woman in the church? Is it not to be a devoted wife, mother, and servant of the church? These aspects were not highlighted during my time at Southeastern Seminary. I hope we are not letting the glory of womanhood and feminine virtues to be eclipsed by the spirit of our age which values education/learning/degrees as more important than the historical path for women, which is the path taken by the mother of our Lord.
In any case it is an issue which I’ve not given as much thought to as Dr. Mohler (but in my defense virtually everyone I know could say that about almost anything in respect to him!), and I trust very much his ministry and wisdom. I offer these points not as attacks, but considerations, which I’m certain have already been asked in the past by wiser minds than mine, and likely answered, but I just don’t have that answer, or what I have found thus far has not been convincing to me at least. May we have the mind of Christ in love in these deliberations.
Only man is allowed to ministry. Paul describe it. In Acts 1 there should be 12 people leaders in 1 ministry or church.
if the church only has 10 people or all women, then you have a problem.
we are all ministers. i assume you mean elders?
Eph 4:7 Now grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of the Messiah’s gift. 8 For it says:
When He ascended on high,
He took prisoners into captivity;[c]
He gave gifts to people.[d]
9 But what does “He ascended” mean except that He[e] descended to the lower parts of the earth?[f] 10 The One who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill[g] all things. 11 And He personally gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, 12 for the training of the saints in the work of ministry, to build up the body of Christ, 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of God’s Son, growing into a mature man with a stature measured by Christ’s fullness.
@@brucemercerblamelessshamel3104 i got your point. Sharing is okay for everyone. But having a ministry it should be 12 leaders of men, not women. :)
@@patrickyao2835 we should follow what Jesus commanded. Yes it is problem when women are the one who are running the ministry. Because eve sin first.
@@karlreacts22 no, u missed the point. we are all in ministry according to paul. but not all are elders. nor all in the same ministry.
Little yeast has infected the whole batch.
June 2022