It is interesting how the poorer or inferior brakes on the 1250 are glossed over and the rest where the 1200 is worse off is significant. 3 meters into the vehicle in front of you can mean death but 1 second slower acceleration is neither here nor there.
I rode my 1200 then the 1250 back to back and I like the power difference but I prefer the feel and sound of the 1200 , both are superb riding machines and Im keeping the 1200 !
Lots of small things to criticize on the R1200GS (I have a 2016): Lack of back-lit controls on a bike at this price point is a pretty serious oversight, the switch gear in general has little feel, especially with gloves on, the instrument display is very hard to read in sun glare (TFT screen fixes that), no factory heated seat option, only one power point... all minor points but minor points are major points at this price level. I had no idea the 1250 wasn't using Brembos. After riding the 1250 for 4-5 hours on and off road, IMO the extra power was noticeable but not a selling point. One thing I have never done is lamented the "lack of power" on my 1200. Fix the small things!
I like how we are told that the 1200 is a bit "breathless" and the fuelling is rather jerky only AFTER the 1250 appears and is claimed to have fixed that. Until now the 1200 was perfect :-))
@will M Noooo, the "journos" are probably not. Not sure about those two, though. That said, they don't have much of a choice, really. In order to stand out in this flood of information they need to be amongst the first to publish and the only way to do that is to be given access by the manufacturer himself. Obviously, the manufacturer will only give access to a selected few - selected by him.
Journos know if they say a bike is shit then the manufacturer won't give them an exclusive next year or pay for the launch weekend flights and hotel to the Algarve in Portugal. So yeah, they're corrupt.
I like journalists being enthusiastic for new bikes... I tend to attribute it to the 'new bike smell' and keep it in mind when I shop. ;-) The boxer is a stout motor but it does run out of steam right around the rpm when the higher HP bikes are starting to scream. I find myself bouncing off the rev limiter quite a bit on the R1200's... so it's not like power goes flat, but bikes like the Multi and XR have this feeling of THRUST as they range above 7500rpm that the 1200 lacks.
@@kuhndj67 So you like to see manufacturers claim improved fuel economy over the outgoing model, journos see the opposite, brush it off. Manufacturers change the brakes which perform worse than the outgoing model, and journos brush that off.
Oldfogey Oldfogey I couldn’t disagree more. In my opinion there is a massive difference. The better gearbox/quickshifter alone is worth the cost to change. I’m so glad I sold my 1200 and utterly loved the 1250GS.
@@maxflight777Yes, it's night and day difference, for bikes pre the 2017.5 1200 and the 1250. The major change in the gsp was introduced in the 2017.5 models. But no real offense taken.
If you want a GS, just wait until early spring when all the low-mile, rarely-seen-dirt 2013-2018 examples start showing up on Craigslist for massive discounts off original MSRP, tossed aside by those who have to have the latest and greatest. It may not be new, but it'll do exactly the same thing as the new ones.
I bought a 9k mile 2015 GS with the premium and touring package for only 16k back in February of 2019. It's the best bike I've ever ridden. I think the 1200 is a much better bike than the 1250, when looking at it from a simplicity and complexity balance, as well as a fit and finish standard.
Hilarious, every microscopic improvement was called "notably better" but the extra ten feet+ braking distance of the new bike (which in the real world is a stop or crash into something factor) was dismissed with "the new brakes possibly felt better". All the people praising this report need to remove your BMW blinkers and bear this in mind, if these hacks slate a model then we won’t buy it and they won’t be invited to the next free holiday, sorry I meant unbiased press review. (In a nutshell just about as reliable as BBC news)
Alan Hopkins did you even bother to listen to them? They flat out stated the test was only performed once, which is why they dismissed it. If it’s repeatable, I get it. I’m more curious why they only did it once, instead of proclaiming this as a fact.
FYI: I've owned both these models now. I have had the 1250 for 12 months and the Brembo brakes on the older model (2015) were better than the newer ones. Not a great deal better but you can notice it.
*puts on tinfoil hat* Bennets is an insurance company, so they'd rather you bought the more expensive and newer bike which will cost more to insure and make them more money
So it accelerates marginally better at illegal speeds, brakes marginally worse at legal speeds, does the same mpg and no longer uses the best brakes on the market for a spurious brand from the USA. Um...........
@@markjurczyk I totally agree with you, this is supposed to be a premium product and is priced accordingly. I guess the marketing men at BMW dont think their sales will be affected enough to warrant them fitting Brembos. Not impressed.
First proper back-to-back review I've seen: really excellent. Simon Hargreaves is a class act journo as well. Miss his wonderful writing in "BIKE" magazine.
As a 1200GS Rallye owner, I really enjoyed the comparison. I only got mine new in May of this year, so was interested to see what I missed out on by not waiting for a 2019. The new engine is more evolution than anything too radical, so I'm still more than happy with my purchase.
Statistically the 1250 is a better bike, in real life there is not much difference, especially when riding on small back roads. The 1200 still is no slough and personally I am very happy with my triple black LC adventure.
These bikes are far to heavy and gaining (cc's) weight. When all an adventure bike rider is a twin cylinder 50 hp bike for nimble off roading. And an easy lift when ya drop the bike. The art of Overselling the customer starts at the factory and keeps going to the dealers
I love it how it eventually ended up in a cafe drinking coffee with a laptop and coffee pot and all the gear on with the ADV bikes in the background 🤣👊 It was a very informative video gents, we really appreciate it.
Nice comparison. Please do the same with the Multistrada 1200 enduro and the 1260 enduro. There are some ergonomics differences but it could be interesting to compare the engines as well.
I would love to see BMW make a 1000cc boxer GS with everything scaled down a bit including the weight. I own a 2016 R1200GS and the weight is my only complaint. It certainly doesn't need more power or torque. I just don't understand the push for bigger is better.
It would be, probably, next to the same weight. Look at the F850GS, much simpler front and rear suspension, smaller engine, smaller bike at all, and almost as heavy as the 1200. Something wrong is going on with BMW.
They won't re-release a small boxer they claim. And they are right actually. The 850 fills the gap nicely, although there should be a shaft version too possibly.
If you try full open gas the ktm 1290 super adventure, you will understand why i prefer ktm instead of BMW.... 1290 super adventure is 160hp, pure adrenaline, and gs is.... well... from point A to B... So yes, bigger and more is better for sure!!
How about the same straight line shoot out with the R1200 GS actually warmed up...? The red line on the the TFT dash on the R1200GS was at 7000 RPM... at 2.36 mins in the video. I have ridden both bikes, they are both awesome but I am afraid to say I would not buy a R1250 if you already have a 2016 onwards R1200. It simply isn't worth the extra money just yet to change. Also, like others have said the Brembos fitted to the R1200 are MUCH better. Performance isn't all about power and cc's...
Your fuel consumption experience is similar to what I've seen with my 2020 R1250rs, which replaced my 2018 R1200rs. The 1200 was slightly better using on average 4.7L/100 to the 1250's 4.9L/100 The RS is also still fitted with brembos which maybe a reflection on the leaking issues BMW have had with the Hayes units.
Stan Whattmore But, if you are like me, you can get a lot of pleasure with the performance of the new bike. It’s simply more exhilarating, more fun. Isn’t that why we ride bikes? ( If it isn’, you might as well take the car for your journey)
3 metres can mean the difference between being in perfect shape and being in a coffin. You guys shrugged it off like nothing but this is quite a back step, especially when you consider 1250 is faster.
The high point of the last generation was the absolutely sterling Brembo brakes. Now they put on budget stoppers and pretend it's an upgrade? This bike is beginning to resemble an Apple product..
@Citizenthirteen I've toured on these extensively but have always hired the bikes in the country of destination. I was speaking of performance but it's interesting to know how they perform long term. Cheers.
@@upup209 Going to Hayes is a "Red Flag" to me. Great products in the MTB arena, but what is wrong with Brembo?? This smells like a "Cost of Goods" move by the Bavarians. I'll wait til Hayes has been in the game a while...
Not sure why these guys are so surprised about the caliper change. Brembo owns Hayes’ Brake Components Division; they have for over ten years. And since Brembo just pumped 32 million pounds into a production facility in Mexico that is pumping out their calipers for this market, I’m sure the financial upside is good for them.
I don't understand some review points and comments below either. This is touring adventure bike. It is not race bike. The purpose of touring bike is to cover huge number of miles daily in relative comfort, with relative economy (meaning lower revs at higher speeds). Adventure part means ability to carry significant luggage and have decent suspension to go off road or just more comfort on dirt road. It needs to be heavy to fight wind and to have big tank for range. If somebody is looking for a dirt bike or race bike, well, go look for bikes in those categories. This change is mostly for marketing purposes to create some buzz as there is barely, if any competition in this category.
My only issue with R1200GS LC is the suspension which is incredible harsh on potholes at times, never had any issues with the engine and power delivery. Sure KTM 1290S & R are way faster, yet they are also chain drive and are completely different beast. No suspension improvements, no weight reduction, no comfort add-ons. I'd love to see that heated seat, Triumph Tiger has one. And then you get the Hayes brakes. Those were crap even on the mountain bikes and people would replace those quite often. I hated mine and bought a Magura as a replacement. Fail to see how did they manage to fit them on one of the most expensive touring motorcycles in the world.
Why cant bmw put back lit buttons on the gs? Every car has had them for 25 years. In a car you have a dome light to see. And make electric screen a option. Why they put the knob for the wind shield on the right who knows. The 1200 makes good power but 3rd gear willies should be standard on a 1200cc bike that cost $ 23,000.
I totally agree with Matt that BMW missed the mark by not back lighting the control buttons. I am constantly wondering where the buttons are at night if I haven't done any night riding in a while. I don't mind the knob for the windshield being on the right, but it would be nice to be able to adjust the windshield higher at highway speeds without fearing that you have to slow down to get the pressure off the windshield. The bottom line is you have to adjust the windshield before you get going too fast or you can't move it. As far as pulling 3rd gear wheelies, I test drove a KTM 1190 and like you say, when I cracked open the throttle in 3rd gear, the front wheel came 3 feet off the ground. I decided right then that the KTM was too fast for me and I would probably kill myself on it so I bought the R1200GSA instead and I have the best bike for me in the garage. Mine is a 2016 with a 7 year warranty so when the warranty expires I will buy another one. Mine has 43,000 kilometers and it is a great bike.
Either one, it don’t matter. Once you ride a GS you will love it. These are beasts, a do-all bike for all seasons. Life’s short, just buy the damn bike. Whatever the bike.
1250 could be a good upgrade engine on the 1200 in the long term but in all honesty I believe these power figures for a real world rider are irrelevant here...for me though (20k plus miles per year) the one massively important figure that they swept quickly under the carpet was the stopping distance...3 metres is huge...."the Hayes felt more instant" "the Brembos had more of a build up" I'll take the less snatchy brakes that stop me 2.5m away from my mate on his 1250 who is half a meter embedded in the car in front thanks.... Also I dont like the way they have subtly tweaked the panels and the new colour jobs which look awful IMO which is why I just bought a triple black 1200 and couldn't be happier. Sorry to say this came across as more of a paid promo than a review to me.
Fuel is not something to measure on such a young engine. It needs a few thousand miles to actually run in. Possibly the shiftcam software will get a few updates through the year too. As for brakes, I agree, although "we did it once" actually kills it for me as a statistic. Brakes have to be tested a few times (allow for braking fatigue to settle down too), they need to be done from exactly same speed (GPS not clocks), same rider (same weight and same reaction). Also note that the new bike is supposedly 3-4kg heavier.
so the 1250 is an improvement overall vs the 1200? and the 1200 was an improvement over an 1150? i ride all types of bikes and can appreciate most of what they offer. I am actually surprised by the 1/4 times, seemed a little slow compared to seat of the pants performance. who knows
70 MPH is average road speed in parts of the US so I am glad you used a higher speed for a baseline. The R1250's use brakes sourced by a company called Hayes, rebranded as BMW. Beemer seems to be distancing itself from Brembro.
Great comparison guys! The prices are not quite as you describe. 1200GS TE is £750 ish cheaper than 1250GS TE - not sure how close they are on spec for spec
Thanks Craig, we got the prices from BMW Motorrad UK who supplied both bikes. I guess the 1200's accessories pushed the price up a little. The PCP deal will mean the 1250 is slightly more expensive per month but only by about £5.
They confused the pricing by comparing a base model to a higher spec model. Because they are adding lots of extras the TE price ends up being higher than if they'd gone with a different model where many of the extras are included in the package and don't increase the price accordingly compared to buying extras separately. They should have compared a 1200 Rallye to a 1250 Rallye.
Right. Gonna stick to my r1200gs then (; 3 metres difference in braking. that is a HUGE difference. That's over half of a car's length... in an emergency, it's a world of a difference.
I agree. I like Simon but it seemed that all the slight improvements in terms of accel and speed were praised but the lack of braking was down played?? Politics? The differences are marginal and I wouldn’t trade a almost new 1200 for the 1250
Thanks for the awesome video but I wish your tests were a little more scientific. Why do a braking test if you're only going to do it once and then say the results don't matter? Would it have broken your budget to do the test five times?
Interesting to me is the big increase in power and over a broader range. Take away the 1200 was not a bad bike and the 1250 is an improvement in evolution. Many makers are not able to make improvements like this to an already good bike. I just bought a 1250 RT if they were still making the 1200 and not the 1250 I would have likely have bought a 1200. Looks like a great bike to own either way you go.
I would want it to break better..... 3 meters is huge, that could be the difference between life and death. Why did they leave brembro.... stupid move.
The difference could lie in the ABS if that's how they were stopping the bike by allowing that to do its job, but I agree 3 meters is a lot, I had a near miss when a truck jackknifed in front of me once in a car where I just had to brake as hard as possible, thinking a collision was inevitable, I stopped about a foot short of the car that did hit the truck's trailer, so another 3 feet was definitely important there and even more so on a motorcycle. The other factor is that even if they performed the same Brembo has a brand image and is something you expect to see on a premium motorcycle and is the brake used in Moto GP, I think I'd feel a little cheated after paying BMW prices to have an off brand product fitted.
@@mrswinkyuk sorry English professor I didn't know commenting on a UA-cam video would be so intensly scrutinised. I will make sure next time I won't make such a moronic mistake... I am so ashamed of my self, I just can't believe I made such a fool of myself in front of you.... the great and powerful OZ.
Not a scientific test. 1250 rider might not have braked as hard - you have to over pressure the brake as the ABS takes up. Might have started braking a fraction late. Riders not the same weight. They should have done multiple tests, swapping the riders to get an average. I guess they didn't want to increase the risk of dropping one of these expensive bikes.
Thanks for the video! I learned this hard lesson in the early 2000s. If you want a Cadillac, first make sure that you are earning a Cadillac income! How much does it cost for maintenance on a 1250? I do my own maintenance on my GS 1200 OC which makes it doable for me as a retiree.
Nice review; I really enjoyed watching it and I second that the folks at Balderston's are solid chaps, as they're just up the way from me. I do have to wonder though, why no mention of the KTMs when you talk about direct competition to the GS? I saw where the new Ducati came up, as did the Triumph, but not the Super Adventures.
Top speed? Because all GS after 2004, seem to be stuck in the same 209-220Km/h (on GPS), depending on generation, irrelevant of the engine upgrades. From 1st gen 12GS (100HP claimed) to last 1250GS (136HP claimed) the top speed, should have gone up significantly. My tuned 2007 12GS (which has gone from 100HP claimed to 100HP real on the wheel), does go to 220Km/h easily on GPS (with bit raised limiter). I realize GS has to have the feeling that will go over or through everything, no matter the load on the bike, but they should have changed the gearing a tiny bit (esp. 6th that could be a way "longer" one).
If anything I’d say the last of the 1200’s is the bike to have taking everything in to account ... The new Hayes calipers aren’t great either. Loads of leaking problems and they don’t do well with spirited use. Same on the new s1krr, again leaking problems. Step backwards in my opinion, I had fade on the road on the new s1000rr
The way 95% of the people who own these bikes ride, there is absolutely no point in making such comparisons. Getting a 1250 when you have a 1200 would be simply for the image factor. If you really wanted a more powerful machine, Ducati and KTM have the answer.
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With a more complicated engine, it would have been interesting to know if the service cost have raised and if the service intervals changed as well. Nice review but I guess I stick with my R1100S -99 :)
As a happy 2014 GS owner, I'll keep what I have for a while longer. I don't care for electronics inside the engine casing (shift cam), nor do I like the Hayes brakes (which are under recall). If I want more performance, I'll ride my equally old (2014) BMW S1000R.
50-100 test is a little misleading, the top end of the 1250 is going to have more of an effect when you’re going all the way to 100, which, how often do you need 100 to overtake? I would be curious about 40-70.
One thing they could do to improve the 1200 is to revert to the old school large indicator switches and the right side cancel switch. Ok, tricky to figure out at first but you quickly become adept and they re so much easier to use with gloves. The tiny indicator switch on the 1200 and more modern BMW s is harder to find and successfully operate than a clitoris. Modern is nt necessarily better.
This was a good round of testing. I was impressed with both bikes on the dyno test regarding how close the power at the back wheel came to the claimed torque and horsepower at the crank. That suggests a really efficient drivetrain design. There was certainly nothing wrong with the old engine, but I have ridden both and it is true that you can clearly feel the increase of power and the consistency of power delivery across the rev and load range. Also, I think the new front calipers are fine, and you need to keep in mind that the tires are different as well. Again, great video!
Good over all review, Ive just brought the 1250 GSA HP and was on a 2016 1200 GSA. Biggest thing I have noticed is the increase in power and torque. The breaking test that was done was only done once and as is with these types of test you would need to do that several times to find the result, I find the new breaks just as good if not marginally better but thats more from the feel they provide. One thing I dont like is you can't change the level of the tire pressure warning its fixed, small issue but thats all Ive found after the first week
I would be very surprised if that fueling curve is as homologated. They might have put a non emissions map in for better performance and smoothness. It's especially noticeable when you go back to a bike that stumbles and snatches due to lean running... That in turn might explain the fuel economy differences, since the "shift cam" allows for milder profiles in the low to midrange, which should be more frugal despite the 4% increase in displacement. The brakes might still need bedding in properly, for best friction. A lot of the feel comes from design, so the Brembos will feel less grabby according to how BMW designed the whole system, from master cylinder, through all the lines, ABS unit and so on and then finally the caliper, pad and disc. Perhaps they wanted the Hayes to seem superior, so made them a little sharper, by design. Might only be a difference in pad construction / material.
By far the best comparison review on the net uptil now. For those questioning the journalistic independence & rightly so; I think, as usual, one needs to read between the lines. For those among us who are truly interested in the real story: Make a note of the observations made in this review and then take a test ride on the 1250. Informative review thanks. Based on your review I did take a brand new GS 1250 HP out for a test ride. In fact rode it the whole day! The New Delhi Lutyens dealership was amazingly kind to give me the bike with no instructions except to have fun. I ride a 2018 GSA 1200 rallye (Low) with 13000 km on the odo. Having previously owned the Triumph Tiger 800 xrx & 1200 xc (explorer), I miss the triple. But the GSA is a far better bike to ride. As mentioned in the review I too think lack of back-lit switches is a shortfall. TOTALLY REQUIRED. Driving on indian highways/off road, at night with high beam oncoming traffic, rain splashed visors, pothole roads; finding the button/switch is probably like foraging n fumbling through a ladies handbag for something with gloves on. And I ain't a Lady n don't fancy such activity :-). My opinion post test ride: Would I like to change to the 1250..? Yes. Is the difference so much that the 2018 R1200 feels dated? Inferior..?? NO..NO..NO. So that's 1 YES vs 3 NOs. The 1200 is powerful and fun enough I think. To clarify further here's an example: I sold my brand new Tiger 1200 Explorer barely 8 months later for 60 % of the price. It hurt. But the GSA R1200 replacing it was/is far far superior. Improving my motorcycling enjoyment level significantly. This is not & will not be the case with the 1200/1250. Even though I could afford it. Period. So don't fret & waste your money. For the present anyway. Cheers
After admiring BMW's on the dealer's floor and almost burning $21k on RT with discontinued engine (GS was still in $25k-$30k range), I put Yamaha S10 ES for $16k on the road. I can hardly imagine what could possibly cost another $10K-$15K.
@@adammfharris I test rode 60+ bikes (road and off-road). There are very few bikes I didn't like but, there were many I liked and few I liked a lot. I'm sure beemer is a great bike. So is Pan Am, Multistrada 1200, Versys 1000. Comfy and run great. Really fantastic bikes but, they all cost more than my Super Tenere and while some features on those bikes are better, I still think my Super Tenere is better package and better value than any of those. I'm not sure I would pay more for Super Ten though. I found GS uncomfortable just sitting on it. RT was super comfy but I like to venture to rough roads.
@@oknevals That’s an Interesting opinion. You are the first person I’ve heard that thinks it’s uncomfortable. I’ve only heard the opposite from everyone else I’ve discussed this with.
It appeared to me like they didn’t want to criticise the 1250. A 3 metre difference in stopping distance can be the difference between managing to pull up in the available space or allowing whatever caused the requirement for an emergency stop to get rid of the energy still being carried for those 3 metres - which is not going to be pleasant!
Great video, guys!! I wonder why BMW went with Hayes calipers instead of Brembo's, is it some kind of cost cutting? I hope not. Interesting, because you mention the new bikes costs less than the old model. Also the GS' of the recent years seem more road biased. Eager to see how this compares with the new XCA, Multi Enduro & 1290 SAR.
Should I get older 1200 GS from 2018 if I don't care about the power? Brambo brakes, potentially more reliable simpler engin, lower weight seems more appealing to me.
I wish that they were available in even lower seat heights. Power and performance aren’t an obstacle to me, but I wish that they could be a bit lower since they are big, heavy bikes.
WTF!!!!...why is there no mention of the fuel usage???? Claimed was 59.5 MPG on the 1250 but is actually ONLY managed 42.8 MPG. That's nearly 30% less than what they claim. How is that in any way shape or form, good? If I was getting 30% less fuel use than claimed I would be taking the bike back and asking for a refund.
They were performance testing it, so it's hardly a real world scenario and BMW know how slowly their riders ride - on the highway you will get probably 60mpg (UK) and a bit more.
@@poulan9 actually I'd have to disagree on that. They did the fuel test at a constant speed for x amount of laps and they are on flat ground. I've never heard if anyone getting anywhere near 60mpg and my friends who ride these are getting just over 42_44mpg on long tours. It is of course just one review but never seen a review get 55+mpg. Interesting though.
I noticed that European manufacturers are advertising fuel consumption at relatively slow highway speed 50-55mph while Japanese manufacturers advertise rather conservative combined consumption at not specific speed. On all three of my Jap bikes, I'm getting much better than advertised.) On Yamaha Super Tenere 1200, spec says 43 mpg while I'm consistently getting 48 mpg even when cruising for hours at 70-75mph.
@@oknevals i would have to agree based on my own experiences and friends. I'm getting better than stated fuel economy on my Kawasaki. I ride fairly sedately but still...it's better than advertised.
No bike is going to get the rated mileage at a 70 mph average speed. My Multistrada frequently averages over 50mpg when touring... but we ride secondary roads and our average speed while touring is in the low 40mph range. When I have to spend time on interstates and my average speed is in the 70mph range the Multi gets somewhere in the low-mid 30's (depending on conditions)... I've even seen 27mpg (per tank... not from the dash) averages when riding into a headwind in the midwest US.
Great review, I'm concerned about the change in brakes, Brembo brakes are top notch, I would've loved it if BMW didn't change that, faster bike, with lesser braking power... doesn't sound like the German way of doing things
This is a very good video for street riding but can we compare them the may they are designed to be used, off-road? Is there a big difference for a bike buyer to choose between the 1200 over the 1250 when they are looking for off-road riding? The speed and torque aren't that important, it's handling and balance which are the key elements to off-road riding. Are there videos for this comparison? Thanks guys for the awesome video. I learned a lot about each bike. Best wishes. M.B. San Antonio, TX
Just loved the review. On the braking test....it's surprising that the 1250 takes 3 additional mtrs to stop. I am from India and braking for obstacles (unexpected mostly) happens very frequently on our interstates as well. Would have liked if you did that test a couple of times and taken an average of the stopping distances. The delta of 3 mtrs is a lot in my humble opinion.
Pretty impressive Dyno numbers considering that most Mfgs advertise crank hp and torque. Parasitic drivetrain losses usually are about 15% both these bikes show much less than that. I'm impressed, but still would hesitate buying a BMW because of the cost of maintenance and parts over the long run.
Yes more power but that increase does still fall short, doesn’t it? And it is not stopping as good as the Brembo 1200GS is it? It does cost more doesn’t it?
![R1200GS / R1250GS | Complete Buyer's Guide [2005-2020]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9arUyUFD5wk/mqdefault.jpg)
![R1200GS / R1250GS | Complete Buyer's Guide [2005-2020]](/img/tr.png)
It is interesting how the poorer or inferior brakes on the 1250 are glossed over and the rest where the 1200 is worse off is significant.
3 meters into the vehicle in front of you can mean death but 1 second slower acceleration is neither here nor there.
I rode my 1200 then the 1250 back to back and I like the power difference but I prefer the feel and sound of the 1200 , both are superb riding machines and Im keeping the 1200 !
Lots of small things to criticize on the R1200GS (I have a 2016): Lack of back-lit controls on a bike at this price point is a pretty serious oversight, the switch gear in general has little feel, especially with gloves on, the instrument display is very hard to read in sun glare (TFT screen fixes that), no factory heated seat option, only one power point... all minor points but minor points are major points at this price level. I had no idea the 1250 wasn't using Brembos. After riding the 1250 for 4-5 hours on and off road, IMO the extra power was noticeable but not a selling point. One thing I have never done is lamented the "lack of power" on my 1200. Fix the small things!
I like how we are told that the 1200 is a bit "breathless" and the fuelling is rather jerky only AFTER the 1250 appears and is claimed to have fixed that. Until now the 1200 was perfect :-))
@will M Noooo, the "journos" are probably not. Not sure about those two, though.
That said, they don't have much of a choice, really. In order to stand out in this flood of information they need to be amongst the first to publish and the only way to do that is to be given access by the manufacturer himself. Obviously, the manufacturer will only give access to a selected few - selected by him.
Journos know if they say a bike is shit then the manufacturer won't give them an exclusive next year or pay for the launch weekend flights and hotel to the Algarve in Portugal. So yeah, they're corrupt.
Another reason why the journos aren't pitting this machine against any other marque...as if the only choices for bikes in the world are BMW or BMW.
I like journalists being enthusiastic for new bikes... I tend to attribute it to the 'new bike smell' and keep it in mind when I shop. ;-) The boxer is a stout motor but it does run out of steam right around the rpm when the higher HP bikes are starting to scream. I find myself bouncing off the rev limiter quite a bit on the R1200's... so it's not like power goes flat, but bikes like the Multi and XR have this feeling of THRUST as they range above 7500rpm that the 1200 lacks.
@@kuhndj67 So you like to see manufacturers claim improved fuel economy over the outgoing model, journos see the opposite, brush it off. Manufacturers change the brakes which perform worse than the outgoing model, and journos brush that off.
The difference between the 1200 and 1250 is too marginal for me. Good time to buy a second hand 1200, while the rich set are salivating at the 1250.
Oldfogey Oldfogey I couldn’t disagree more. In my opinion there is a massive difference. The better gearbox/quickshifter alone is worth the cost to change. I’m so glad I sold my 1200 and utterly loved the 1250GS.
And you don’t need to be rich either. Just put your priorities in order.
@@maxflight777 no change in the gearbox/quickshifter between the outgoing version of the 1200 - the 2017.5 - and the 1250.
@@samsara3694 I’m sorry , that’s an idiotic claim. It’s like night and day.
@@maxflight777Yes, it's night and day difference, for bikes pre the 2017.5 1200 and the 1250. The major change in the gsp was introduced in the 2017.5 models. But no real offense taken.
Pretending shiftcam is some new technology while Honda has been using it since the 90's called VTEC.
new in motorcycles?
@@1glopz No Honda has the VFR 800 with v-tec that was made around 2000
tubejorrit
And in cars it was 10 years before that..! Even Yamaha/toyota did it in late 80s
Since the 80's*
@@1glopz desmovalves?
If you want a GS, just wait until early spring when all the low-mile, rarely-seen-dirt 2013-2018 examples start showing up on Craigslist for massive discounts off original MSRP, tossed aside by those who have to have the latest and greatest. It may not be new, but it'll do exactly the same thing as the new ones.
Get an urban GS and install propper suspension on it and you are good to go :)
I just picked up a 2000mile, just factory-serviced 2018 GS with Touratech Paniers and crash bars for $20,000 out the door. Case in point.
I bought a 9k mile 2015 GS with the premium and touring package for only 16k back in February of 2019. It's the best bike I've ever ridden. I think the 1200 is a much better bike than the 1250, when looking at it from a simplicity and complexity balance, as well as a fit and finish standard.
Hilarious, every microscopic improvement was called "notably better" but the extra ten feet+ braking distance of the new bike (which in the real world is a stop or crash into something factor) was dismissed with "the new brakes possibly felt better".
All the people praising this report need to remove your BMW blinkers and bear this in mind, if these hacks slate a model then we won’t buy it and they won’t be invited to the next free holiday, sorry I meant unbiased press review.
(In a nutshell just about as reliable as BBC news)
Alan Hopkins did you even bother to listen to them? They flat out stated the test was only performed once, which is why they dismissed it. If it’s repeatable, I get it. I’m more curious why they only did it once, instead of proclaiming this as a fact.
I agree the brake test is not make me feel comfortable. Its hard for those guys to be objective since they are dependent on BMW
Not a BMW guy....just a interesting comparison. Now you sound like a BMW hater. What do you ride, a Vespa?
FYI: I've owned both these models now. I have had the 1250 for 12 months and the Brembo brakes on the older model (2015) were better than the newer ones. Not a great deal better but you can notice it.
*puts on tinfoil hat* Bennets is an insurance company, so they'd rather you bought the more expensive and newer bike which will cost more to insure and make them more money
So it accelerates marginally better at illegal speeds, brakes marginally worse at legal speeds, does the same mpg and no longer uses the best brakes on the market for a spurious brand from the USA. Um...........
Sounds a great fit for an insurance company doesn't it?
Best Brakes???Only Good Brand is Bremo wich are used eaven for GP.
BMW is saving money on breaks ? WTF
@@markjurczyk I totally agree with you, this is supposed to be a premium product and is priced accordingly. I guess the marketing men at BMW dont think their sales will be affected enough to warrant them fitting Brembos. Not impressed.
baggerly boy its weird because they have Brembo on the back and BMW on the front🤔
First proper back-to-back review I've seen: really excellent. Simon Hargreaves is a class act journo as well. Miss his wonderful writing in "BIKE" magazine.
Eye of the beholder... paint on the 1250 is gorgeous!!!!
Please blend in metrical units next time
No I don’t think I will
As a 1200GS Rallye owner, I really enjoyed the comparison. I only got mine new in May of this year, so was interested to see what I missed out on by not waiting for a 2019. The new engine is more evolution than anything too radical, so I'm still more than happy with my purchase.
Statistically the 1250 is a better bike, in real life there is not much difference, especially when riding on small back roads. The 1200 still is no slough and personally I am very happy with my triple black LC adventure.
finally someone who actually does a proper testing and comparison. Good job
These bikes are far to heavy and gaining (cc's) weight. When all an adventure bike rider is a twin cylinder 50 hp bike for nimble off roading. And an easy lift when ya drop the bike. The art of Overselling the customer starts at the factory and keeps going to the dealers
I love it how it eventually ended up in a cafe drinking coffee with a laptop and coffee pot and all the gear on with the ADV bikes in the background 🤣👊 It was a very informative video gents, we really appreciate it.
Nice comparison. Please do the same with the Multistrada 1200 enduro and the 1260 enduro. There are some ergonomics differences but it could be interesting to compare the engines as well.
I would love to see BMW make a 1000cc boxer GS with everything scaled down a bit including the weight. I own a 2016 R1200GS and the weight is my only complaint. It certainly doesn't need more power or torque. I just don't understand the push for bigger is better.
There's the new 850 and 750
@@chrisg4rr377 I know but I really like the boxer and shaft drive.
It would be, probably, next to the same weight. Look at the F850GS, much simpler front and rear suspension, smaller engine, smaller bike at all, and almost as heavy as the 1200. Something wrong is going on with BMW.
They won't re-release a small boxer they claim. And they are right actually.
The 850 fills the gap nicely, although there should be a shaft version too possibly.
If you try full open gas the ktm 1290 super adventure, you will understand why i prefer ktm instead of BMW.... 1290 super adventure is 160hp, pure adrenaline, and gs is.... well... from point A to B... So yes, bigger and more is better for sure!!
How about the same straight line shoot out with the R1200 GS actually warmed up...? The red line on the the TFT dash on the R1200GS was at 7000 RPM... at 2.36 mins in the video. I have ridden both bikes, they are both awesome but I am afraid to say I would not buy a R1250 if you already have a 2016 onwards R1200. It simply isn't worth the extra money just yet to change. Also, like others have said the Brembos fitted to the R1200 are MUCH better. Performance isn't all about power and cc's...
Your fuel consumption experience is similar to what I've seen with my 2020 R1250rs, which replaced my 2018 R1200rs. The 1200 was slightly better using on average 4.7L/100 to the 1250's 4.9L/100
The RS is also still fitted with brembos which maybe a reflection on the leaking issues BMW have had with the Hayes units.
Not enough for me to trade in my R1200GSA Triple Black TE 2018.
I’ve a 2016 Triple Black also and it’s too good to switch from too..
Who buys these bikes for outright performance?
Stan Whattmore But, if you are like me, you can get a lot of pleasure with the performance of the new bike. It’s simply more exhilarating, more fun. Isn’t that why we ride bikes? ( If it isn’, you might as well take the car for your journey)
i didnt know acceletion and engine power was all to testing which bike is "better" .😂😂
I love the way he says it has new calipers as if it is a good thing. They are new because they are cheap. And they leak.
Has this improved on the 2020 models?
...and under recall if I understand correctly.
3 metres can mean the difference between being in perfect shape and being in a coffin. You guys shrugged it off like nothing but this is quite a back step, especially when you consider 1250 is faster.
The high point of the last generation was the absolutely sterling Brembo brakes. Now they put on budget stoppers and pretend it's an upgrade? This bike is beginning to resemble an Apple product..
The brakes could be a deal breaker 6% less performance on the new bike
@Citizenthirteen I've toured on these extensively but have always hired the bikes in the country of destination. I was speaking of performance but it's interesting to know how they perform long term. Cheers.
The 15+ 1200GS has the same brakes as the S1000XR which I can't fault, even after riding spiritedly two up
@@CubanRider I haven't tried the XR as yet. Good to know.
@@upup209 Going to Hayes is a "Red Flag" to me. Great products in the MTB arena, but what is wrong with Brembo?? This smells like a "Cost of Goods" move by the Bavarians. I'll wait til Hayes has been in the game a while...
Not sure why these guys are so surprised about the caliper change. Brembo owns Hayes’ Brake Components Division; they have for over ten years. And since Brembo just pumped 32 million pounds into a production facility in Mexico that is pumping out their calipers for this market, I’m sure the financial upside is good for them.
I don't understand some review points and comments below either. This is touring adventure bike. It is not race bike. The purpose of touring bike is to cover huge number of miles daily in relative comfort, with relative economy (meaning lower revs at higher speeds). Adventure part means ability to carry significant luggage and have decent suspension to go off road or just more comfort on dirt road. It needs to be heavy to fight wind and to have big tank for range. If somebody is looking for a dirt bike or race bike, well, go look for bikes in those categories. This change is mostly for marketing purposes to create some buzz as there is barely, if any competition in this category.
My only issue with R1200GS LC is the suspension which is incredible harsh on potholes at times, never had any issues with the engine and power delivery. Sure KTM 1290S & R are way faster, yet they are also chain drive and are completely different beast.
No suspension improvements, no weight reduction, no comfort add-ons. I'd love to see that heated seat, Triumph Tiger has one. And then you get the Hayes brakes.
Those were crap even on the mountain bikes and people would replace those quite often. I hated mine and bought a Magura as a replacement. Fail to see how did they manage to fit them on one of the most expensive touring motorcycles in the world.
awesome review, answers to pretty much all the questions a potential 1250 client wanted to know
thanks from Italy
Why cant bmw put back lit buttons on the gs? Every car has had them for 25 years. In a car you have a dome light to see. And make electric screen a option. Why they put the knob for the wind shield on the right who knows. The 1200 makes good power but 3rd gear willies should be standard on a 1200cc bike that cost $ 23,000.
I totally agree with Matt that BMW missed the mark by not back lighting the control buttons. I am constantly wondering where the buttons are at night if I haven't done any night riding in a while. I don't mind the knob for the windshield being on the right, but it would be nice to be able to adjust the windshield higher at highway speeds without fearing that you have to slow down to get the pressure off the windshield. The bottom line is you have to adjust the windshield before you get going too fast or you can't move it. As far as pulling 3rd gear wheelies, I test drove a KTM 1190 and like you say, when I cracked open the throttle in 3rd gear, the front wheel came 3 feet off the ground. I decided right then that the KTM was too fast for me and I would probably kill myself on it so I bought the R1200GSA instead and I have the best bike for me in the garage. Mine is a 2016 with a 7 year warranty so when the warranty expires I will buy another one. Mine has 43,000 kilometers and it is a great bike.
Either one, it don’t matter. Once you ride a GS you will love it. These are beasts, a do-all bike for all seasons. Life’s short, just buy the damn bike. Whatever the bike.
1250 could be a good upgrade engine on the 1200 in the long term but in all honesty I believe these power figures for a real world rider are irrelevant here...for me though (20k plus miles per year) the one massively important figure that they swept quickly under the carpet was the stopping distance...3 metres is huge...."the Hayes felt more instant" "the Brembos had more of a build up" I'll take the less snatchy brakes that stop me 2.5m away from my mate on his 1250 who is half a meter embedded in the car in front thanks.... Also I dont like the way they have subtly tweaked the panels and the new colour jobs which look awful IMO which is why I just bought a triple black 1200 and couldn't be happier. Sorry to say this came across as more of a paid promo than a review to me.
I know. I like the previous instrument panels where all I have to do is a quick glance at the gauges.
So it's worse on fuel the brakes are not as good. Aren't the newer models supposed to be better?
Fuel is not something to measure on such a young engine. It needs a few thousand miles to actually run in.
Possibly the shiftcam software will get a few updates through the year too.
As for brakes, I agree, although "we did it once" actually kills it for me as a statistic.
Brakes have to be tested a few times (allow for braking fatigue to settle down too), they need to be done from exactly same speed (GPS not clocks), same rider (same weight and same reaction). Also note that the new bike is supposedly 3-4kg heavier.
Had to be a kick in the pants, you sounded like a little kid having the time of his life. Good for you man, great video!
so the 1250 is an improvement overall vs the 1200? and the 1200 was an improvement over an 1150? i ride all types of bikes and can appreciate most of what they offer. I am actually surprised by the 1/4 times, seemed a little slow compared to seat of the pants performance. who knows
Yes we need backlit buttons!
70 MPH is average road speed in parts of the US so I am glad you used a higher speed for a baseline. The R1250's use brakes sourced by a company called Hayes, rebranded as BMW. Beemer seems to be distancing itself from Brembro.
Wonder if the much lower miles on the 1250 had an effect on the breaking - due to bedding-in.
Great comparison guys! The prices are not quite as you describe. 1200GS TE is £750 ish cheaper than 1250GS TE - not sure how close they are on spec for spec
Thanks Craig, we got the prices from BMW Motorrad UK who supplied both bikes. I guess the 1200's accessories pushed the price up a little. The PCP deal will mean the 1250 is slightly more expensive per month but only by about £5.
They confused the pricing by comparing a base model to a higher spec model. Because they are adding lots of extras the TE price ends up being higher than if they'd gone with a different model where many of the extras are included in the package and don't increase the price accordingly compared to buying extras separately. They should have compared a 1200 Rallye to a 1250 Rallye.
Great review. Just ordered my new 1250 Exclusive TE from Lovett's of Bristol, UK. Gave me a great deal. Thanks guys!
Right. Gonna stick to my r1200gs then (; 3 metres difference in braking. that is a HUGE difference. That's over half of a car's length... in an emergency, it's a world of a difference.
I agree. I like Simon but it seemed that all the slight improvements in terms of accel and speed were praised but the lack of braking was down played??
Politics? The differences are marginal and I wouldn’t trade a almost new 1200 for the 1250
12:11, "it absolutely powered away!" lmfao. As if the new gs 1250 turned into a ninja H2R or something. Rediculous statement really.
Haha! Ya, powered away on the one with the small windscreen and rider tucked in like a GP pilot! Maybe the guy on the 1200 wasn't as flexible....
@@M27-f4f Tucking in like that on a GS sounds uncomfortable.
Thanks for the awesome video but I wish your tests were a little more scientific. Why do a braking test if you're only going to do it once and then say the results don't matter? Would it have broken your budget to do the test five times?
Interesting to me is the big increase in power and over a broader range. Take away the 1200 was not a bad bike and the 1250 is an improvement in evolution. Many makers are not able to make improvements like this to an already good bike. I just bought a 1250 RT if they were still making the 1200 and not the 1250 I would have likely have bought a 1200.
Looks like a great bike to own either way you go.
Short , precise, and to the point. Thank you gentlemen!
Glad it was helpful!
I've just come across this channel and is awesome. What an incredible well done video. Congrats
I would want it to break better..... 3 meters is huge, that could be the difference between life and death. Why did they leave brembro.... stupid move.
The difference could lie in the ABS if that's how they were stopping the bike by allowing that to do its job, but I agree 3 meters is a lot, I had a near miss when a truck jackknifed in front of me once in a car where I just had to brake as hard as possible, thinking a collision was inevitable, I stopped about a foot short of the car that did hit the truck's trailer, so another 3 feet was definitely important there and even more so on a motorcycle. The other factor is that even if they performed the same Brembo has a brand image and is something you expect to see on a premium motorcycle and is the brake used in Moto GP, I think I'd feel a little cheated after paying BMW prices to have an off brand product fitted.
You want it to actually BREAK better? You must enjoy repair bills. Or would you rather it brake better?
@@mrswinkyuk sorry English professor I didn't know commenting on a UA-cam video would be so intensly scrutinised. I will make sure next time I won't make such a moronic mistake... I am so ashamed of my self, I just can't believe I made such a fool of myself in front of you.... the great and powerful OZ.
Not a scientific test. 1250 rider might not have braked as hard - you have to over pressure the brake as the ABS takes up. Might have started braking a fraction late. Riders not the same weight. They should have done multiple tests, swapping the riders to get an average. I guess they didn't want to increase the risk of dropping one of these expensive bikes.
Thanks for the video!
I learned this hard lesson in the early 2000s. If you want a Cadillac, first make sure that you are earning a Cadillac income!
How much does it cost for maintenance on a 1250?
I do my own maintenance on my GS 1200 OC which makes it doable for me as a retiree.
at 10:34 why is there a royal enfield on the work table in a BMW showroom
supercharged petrolhead the dealership also sells Royal Enfields
@@bennettsbikesocial Oh!!! cool
Check the graf at 6min of video and in 6:33 . also in 6:41. for me the test is not reliable.the graf for 1200 and 1250 is the sme..
Nice review; I really enjoyed watching it and I second that the folks at Balderston's are solid chaps, as they're just up the way from me. I do have to wonder though, why no mention of the KTMs when you talk about direct competition to the GS? I saw where the new Ducati came up, as did the Triumph, but not the Super Adventures.
Top speed?
Because all GS after 2004, seem to be stuck in the same 209-220Km/h (on GPS), depending on generation, irrelevant of the engine upgrades.
From 1st gen 12GS (100HP claimed) to last 1250GS (136HP claimed) the top speed, should have gone up significantly.
My tuned 2007 12GS (which has gone from 100HP claimed to 100HP real on the wheel), does go to 220Km/h easily on GPS (with bit raised limiter).
I realize GS has to have the feeling that will go over or through everything, no matter the load on the bike, but they should have changed the gearing a tiny bit (esp. 6th that could be a way "longer" one).
Sharp and smart....At last, I despaired lately, so much fudge and wishy washy videos. Will remember this one...Thanks guys!
If anything I’d say the last of the 1200’s is the bike to have taking everything in to account ...
The new Hayes calipers aren’t great either. Loads of leaking problems and they don’t do well with spirited use. Same on the new s1krr, again leaking problems. Step backwards in my opinion, I had fade on the road on the new s1000rr
liking your videos more & more, great content and presentation. good work guys keep them coming !
The way 95% of the people who own these bikes ride, there is absolutely no point in making such comparisons. Getting a 1250 when you have a 1200 would be simply for the image factor. If you really wanted a more powerful machine, Ducati and KTM have the answer.
With a more complicated engine, it would have been interesting to know if the service cost have raised and if the service intervals changed as well. Nice review but I guess I stick with my R1100S -99 :)
Great review. Enjoyed listening to your Texas accents.
I like the presentation of the data.
As a happy 2014 GS owner, I'll keep what I have for a while longer. I don't care for electronics inside the engine casing (shift cam), nor do I like the Hayes brakes (which are under recall). If I want more performance, I'll ride my equally old (2014) BMW S1000R.
Yes, make it less expensive. I SO want that bike...
In the 20-25 years you've known mark, He never told you the difference between BHP and RWHP? The minimal drivetrain loss is impressive.
And now it doesn’t cut out randomly below 3k like my 2018
The 1200 exclusive has to be the classy looker and 99% of the time now the better value if I want more power and thrills ill get a second sports bike
Brembo Please....Great review....
50-100 test is a little misleading, the top end of the 1250 is going to have more of an effect when you’re going all the way to 100, which, how often do you need 100 to overtake? I would be curious about 40-70.
Many thanks for this guys…
However, I would love to the new 1300,1250 and 1200 all together for a review like this.
Great vid! Just the way I like them, short but very informative giving us all the numbers! Nice guys!
One thing they could do to improve the 1200 is to revert to the old school large indicator switches and the right side cancel switch. Ok, tricky to figure out at first but you quickly become adept and they re so much easier to use with gloves.
The tiny indicator switch on the 1200 and more modern BMW s is harder to find and successfully operate than a clitoris.
Modern is nt necessarily better.
Keep the content coming 👍👍😎
This was a good round of testing. I was impressed with both bikes on the dyno test regarding how close the power at the back wheel came to the claimed torque and horsepower at the crank. That suggests a really efficient drivetrain design. There was certainly nothing wrong with the old engine, but I have ridden both and it is true that you can clearly feel the increase of power and the consistency of power delivery across the rev and load range. Also, I think the new front calipers are fine, and you need to keep in mind that the tires are different as well. Again, great video!
Sensational review. Covers all the technical stuff brilliantly
A credit to you boys.
You guys do a great job getting down to the nuts and bolts of these two bikes and get the information out in a entertaining way. Good Job!
Change the fueling on the 1200 to match the 1250 and the gap closes on the power. The 1250 may be a ringer, richer fueling and still meeting Euro 4?
Good over all review, Ive just brought the 1250 GSA HP and was on a 2016 1200 GSA. Biggest thing I have noticed is the increase in power and torque. The breaking test that was done was only done once and as is with these types of test you would need to do that several times to find the result, I find the new breaks just as good if not marginally better but thats more from the feel they provide. One thing I dont like is you can't change the level of the tire pressure warning its fixed, small issue but thats all Ive found after the first week
I would be very surprised if that fueling curve is as homologated. They might have put a non emissions map in for better performance and smoothness. It's especially noticeable when you go back to a bike that stumbles and snatches due to lean running...
That in turn might explain the fuel economy differences, since the "shift cam" allows for milder profiles in the low to midrange, which should be more frugal despite the 4% increase in displacement.
The brakes might still need bedding in properly, for best friction. A lot of the feel comes from design, so the Brembos will feel less grabby according to how BMW designed the whole system, from master cylinder, through all the lines, ABS unit and so on and then finally the caliper, pad and disc. Perhaps they wanted the Hayes to seem superior, so made them a little sharper, by design. Might only be a difference in pad construction / material.
Not impressed with the looks, don't need the tech. But I do like the GS Urban.
As a potential older buyer looking for on-road comfort, I’d swap hp for less weight. Go back to bigger windscreen.
By far the best comparison review on the net uptil now. For those questioning the journalistic independence & rightly so; I think, as usual, one needs to read between the lines. For those among us who are truly interested in the real story: Make a note of the observations made in this review and then take a test ride on the 1250.
Informative review thanks. Based on your review I did take a brand new GS 1250 HP out for a test ride. In fact rode it the whole day! The New Delhi Lutyens dealership was amazingly kind to give me the bike with no instructions except to have fun.
I ride a 2018 GSA 1200 rallye (Low) with 13000 km on the odo. Having previously owned the Triumph Tiger 800 xrx & 1200 xc (explorer), I miss the triple. But the GSA is a far better bike to ride. As mentioned in the review I too think lack of back-lit switches is a shortfall. TOTALLY REQUIRED. Driving on indian highways/off road, at night with high beam oncoming traffic, rain splashed visors, pothole roads; finding the button/switch is probably like foraging n fumbling through a ladies handbag for something with gloves on. And I ain't a Lady n don't fancy such activity :-).
My opinion post test ride: Would I like to change to the 1250..? Yes. Is the difference so much that the 2018 R1200 feels dated? Inferior..?? NO..NO..NO. So that's 1 YES vs 3 NOs. The 1200 is powerful and fun enough I think. To clarify further here's an example: I sold my brand new Tiger 1200 Explorer barely 8 months later for 60 % of the price. It hurt. But the GSA R1200 replacing it was/is far far superior. Improving my motorcycling enjoyment level significantly. This is not & will not be the case with the 1200/1250. Even though I could afford it. Period. So don't fret & waste your money. For the present anyway. Cheers
And now the engine works well below 3k.
After admiring BMW's on the dealer's floor and almost burning $21k on RT with discontinued engine (GS was still in $25k-$30k range), I put Yamaha S10 ES for $16k on the road. I can hardly imagine what could possibly cost another $10K-$15K.
I feel you. I was the same way. Then I rode a few. The GS is such a good bike so I ended up buying one.
@@adammfharris I test rode 60+ bikes (road and off-road). There are very few bikes I didn't like but, there were many I liked and few I liked a lot. I'm sure beemer is a great bike. So is Pan Am, Multistrada 1200, Versys 1000. Comfy and run great. Really fantastic bikes but, they all cost more than my Super Tenere and while some features on those bikes are better, I still think my Super Tenere is better package and better value than any of those. I'm not sure I would pay more for Super Ten though. I found GS uncomfortable just sitting on it. RT was super comfy but I like to venture to rough roads.
@@oknevals That’s an Interesting opinion. You are the first person I’ve heard that thinks it’s uncomfortable. I’ve only heard the opposite from everyone else I’ve discussed this with.
It appeared to me like they didn’t want to criticise the 1250. A 3 metre difference in stopping distance can be the difference between managing to pull up in the available space or allowing whatever caused the requirement for an emergency stop to get rid of the energy still being carried for those 3 metres - which is not going to be pleasant!
Incredible review. Great balance of data and real life user interest. Lovely bike also helps.
I had to rewind a few times and then pause at 4:59 to see both bikes catch air together. WhooHooooo!!!!
Great video, guys!! I wonder why BMW went with Hayes calipers instead of Brembo's, is it some kind of cost cutting? I hope not. Interesting, because you mention the new bikes costs less than the old model. Also the GS' of the recent years seem more road biased. Eager to see how this compares with the new XCA, Multi Enduro & 1290 SAR.
Doubt that it's cost cutting. Could be due to the addition of the dynamic brake control.
@Simon Hargreaves simon, fair enough!
Hayes are part of Brembo, I think the new brakes are better on the 1250 than my 2015 Brembos...much better feel.
Should I get older 1200 GS from 2018 if I don't care about the power? Brambo brakes, potentially more reliable simpler engin, lower weight seems more appealing to me.
I wish that they were available in even lower seat heights. Power and performance aren’t an obstacle to me, but I wish that they could be a bit lower since they are big, heavy bikes.
excellent review guys, good work
WTF!!!!...why is there no mention of the fuel usage???? Claimed was 59.5 MPG on the 1250 but is actually ONLY managed 42.8 MPG. That's nearly 30% less than what they claim. How is that in any way shape or form, good? If I was getting 30% less fuel use than claimed I would be taking the bike back and asking for a refund.
They were performance testing it, so it's hardly a real world scenario and BMW know how slowly their riders ride - on the highway you will get probably 60mpg (UK) and a bit more.
@@poulan9 actually I'd have to disagree on that. They did the fuel test at a constant speed for x amount of laps and they are on flat ground. I've never heard if anyone getting anywhere near 60mpg and my friends who ride these are getting just over 42_44mpg on long tours. It is of course just one review but never seen a review get 55+mpg. Interesting though.
I noticed that European manufacturers are advertising fuel consumption at relatively slow highway speed 50-55mph while Japanese manufacturers advertise rather conservative combined consumption at not specific speed. On all three of my Jap bikes, I'm getting much better than advertised.) On Yamaha Super Tenere 1200, spec says 43 mpg while I'm consistently getting 48 mpg even when cruising for hours at 70-75mph.
@@oknevals i would have to agree based on my own experiences and friends. I'm getting better than stated fuel economy on my Kawasaki. I ride fairly sedately but still...it's better than advertised.
No bike is going to get the rated mileage at a 70 mph average speed. My Multistrada frequently averages over 50mpg when touring... but we ride secondary roads and our average speed while touring is in the low 40mph range. When I have to spend time on interstates and my average speed is in the 70mph range the Multi gets somewhere in the low-mid 30's (depending on conditions)... I've even seen 27mpg (per tank... not from the dash) averages when riding into a headwind in the midwest US.
Absolutely a cracking review. Well done!
Excellent review..!! Great work guys..your riding gears looks amazing. Kindly share the links for such amazing gears too.
Great review, I'm concerned about the change in brakes, Brembo brakes are top notch, I would've loved it if BMW didn't change that, faster bike, with lesser braking power... doesn't sound like the German way of doing things
Hayes is owned by Brembo, so basically nothing changed
This is a very good video for street riding but can we compare them the may they are designed to be used, off-road? Is there a big difference for a bike buyer to choose between the 1200 over the 1250 when they are looking for off-road riding? The speed and torque aren't that important, it's handling and balance which are the key elements to off-road riding. Are there videos for this comparison? Thanks guys for the awesome video. I learned a lot about each bike. Best wishes. M.B. San Antonio, TX
Just loved the review. On the braking test....it's surprising that the 1250 takes 3 additional mtrs to stop. I am from India and braking for obstacles (unexpected mostly) happens very frequently on our interstates as well. Would have liked if you did that test a couple of times and taken an average of the stopping distances. The delta of 3 mtrs is a lot in my humble opinion.
Why do you even need brakes? You believe in the reincarnation/the afterlife don't you?
poulan9 that’s funny! I don’t by the way.
@@poulan9 But if he came back as a beetle, he wouldn't be able to ride GS
Splendid video chaps!
Pretty impressive Dyno numbers considering that most Mfgs advertise crank hp and torque. Parasitic drivetrain losses usually are about 15% both these bikes show much less than that. I'm impressed, but still would hesitate buying a BMW because of the cost of maintenance and parts over the long run.
Great comparison video!!!
1250gs is worth the extra 50 cc's for sure. Love the analysis of the shift cam vvt.
Could be another point of failure.
Yes more power but that increase does still fall short, doesn’t it? And it is not stopping as good as the Brembo 1200GS is it? It does cost more doesn’t it?