Toney's counter right hands were some of the most dangerous weapons in his bag of tricks. I've watched most of his fights and he's hurt just about everyone with it! Marvelous demonstration of skills.
+TopShelf He throws sharp inside counter punches, sometimes in combination. They're short, snapping shots he throws so fast that very often the fans, announcers and judges don't see them land. I see them landing and you see them also apparently. Toney is an all time great and my 2nd favorite fighter.
When watching a master fighter you have to know boxing really well, in its purest form and a true understanding of the nuances of pugilism. Those are the things it takes in order to truly appreciate and see what James Toney is doing in the ring. Toney's defensive glove placement is incredible, his hands are not there and then a milli second and Toney block, rolled and slipped it. I tell you this negative agenda against James Toney coming from inside the boxing world following the Jones jr loss and Jackie Khallen incident is deep, even the boxing punch stats severely robbing Toney and boosting his opponents.
Both wins were questionable. Toney, while always an effective & accurate puncher, didn’t display the speed and quick hands like he did in his earlier middleweight & super middleweight days. (Look at his fights with Iran Barkley & Charles Williams as examples.) A lot of times, the judges seem to be moved more by activity more than anything, and Toney’s style doesn’t always sway the judges.
@@danibar7 💯👍🏽 I honestly think they (the judges) were still punishing Toney for his loss to Jones, and maybe they figured a Jones-Griffin match was better for business than a Jones-Toney rematch…you never can tell with all the politics involved 🤷🏽♂️
This was only Griffin's 15th fight. Usually a guy wouldn't step up to this level until he had at least 25 or 30 fights. They must have thought he was very skilled to put him in with Toney this early in his career. Before griffin fought Toney, only 2 of his 14 opponents had winning records. The combined record of the 14 opponents was 82-137. He fought against very weak competition, then they put him in with toney, who was 44-1 going in. Toney must have been at least a 10-1 favorite;... a lot of money could have been made if you knew how good Griffin was. I think Toney won this fight, but Griffin showed that he was a very good fighter.
Because Toney has that Joe Frazier mentality. Which is bad for black boxers. Ali proved it to be true and Foreman realized it after facing Ali in Africa.
@@Blacattacsquadronthis could be the stupidest comment in the history of UA-cam. First off, you don’t even define what “mentality” you are talking about. Weak. Second, no qualities associated with Joe Frazier could be bad. Third, by stating that this unnamed, undefined quality is bad specifically for black boxers, do you mean it’s potentially good for white boxers? Quality of language governs quality of thought and both your language and your thoughts are disorganized and unimpressive. In conclusion - your level of intelligence makes me sad.
@@SCORP1ONF1REif this Toney or the Toney who fought Iran Barkley, Prince Charles Williams, Michael Nunn, and Tim Littles showed up against Roy instead of the drained and out of shape Toney, things may have been different.
@@Myndir🤣🤣 Lots of people forget that Toney naturally was near cruiserweight & heavyweight range but would sweat down to fight at middleweight. Eventually it caught up with him, as the Jones fight showed..
JAMES TONEY was a beast fought them all never cried when he lost so glad and proud to say he was a Detroit fighter who walked the way he talked it much Respect. Ijs
Great fight from Montell. I had an opportunity to get a bit of work in his gym while I was in the States a few years back. Amazing time, great Chicago gym and I got some great pointers. I'd recommend that gym to anyone... especially if you live in Chicago. Whatever level you're at, he can guide you.
7 - 5 RDS, I scored for James Toney. Close fight. I like the counter right hand that staggered Griffin in RD3. Drunken Griffin all over the ring. Not bad for a fighter coming up going up against someone like Toney.
I Love James Toney he's one my AllTime Favourites, but this was the beginning of the end. because he could not control his eating, and his temper. Bill Miller and Jackie Kallen were right on money. He should've listened. And clearly won this fight and was robbed.
The first in a series of robberies from James Toney serving a negative agenda that was manifested from the Jones Jr loss and the Jackie Khallen incident. James Toney, a fighter who has truly been robbed the most when it comes to how high a level fighter he is and in regards to his legendary status. These robberies against James Toney through out the years are some of the worst and have had the greatest impact of any in the history of any sport. The reason I say that is because the results and ramifications of these injustices really altered and hurt boxing as a whole as well the direction of this specific era of boxing. As far as James Toney goes, he was to great for them to truly ruin him or his legacy. He would go on as we all know to carve out a career of world championship caliber and legendary status among all time greats. His legacy remains intact and he will forever be known as a great fighter, no questions. This negative agenda against James effected more so boxing as a whole, the fights that should have happened didn't happen throughout two separate eras, there will forever be shadows casted among the other great fighters of this era that ducked James Toney. There ducking James Toney was masked and aided by these robberies of sure James Toney victories. This agenda protected many stars, world champions at the time and prospect stars coming up of two different eras. These robberies and subsequent duckings were an excuse, a scapegoat so it would be acceptable to the unknowing watching it happen ever so blindly that certain fights and events did not and would not happen. For example, a rematch between Toney and Roy Jones never happened, Toney vs The Klitchkos never happened and I could go on and on to name big fights that not only James should have had but boxing should have had, the fans should have had. This negative agenda and masquerade type deception enabled this to be acceptable to the public and the people who'm were not involved or did not have knowledge or actually acknowledge such an agenda or insiders movement. The hard pill to swallow, the hardest bullet to take in this is that as great as James has been, as great as his legacy is; he could have had an even greater legend and legacy. The possibility Numerous more world titles, many more defining victories and a possible moniker or designation among the majority as maybe the greatest of all time... Not only that, but boxing did itself a tremendous disservice in implementing such an ugly plan, the end the 90's era could have been even greater than it was and would have done the era even more justice. It literally killed boxing in the era of the 2000's especially during his tenure as top contender of 5 years in the heavyweight division, a division that ached and desperately needed a fighter like Toney as world champion. All that being said, They tried, they tried there damn hardest, but they would not stop him, this agenda would not succeed, they may have won some battles but James Toney won the war.
SiamHomeSource really. I hope this guy doesn't think the Jones fight was a robbery. The truth is, James Toney was a lazy fighter. He rarely came into a big fight in shape. As for robberies, he even got a disputed decision over Dave Tiberi. Many felt that was a robbery in Toney's favor.
What I loved about James Toney is when he lost a fight it would always be by decision. He was robbed In some of his decision losses like this one but he very rarely got hurt in a fight and has only been knocked down 3 times in his career which started in 1988 and he has a fight coming up in 2017! I just hope he retires after that fight like he should have years ago to prevent anymore damage to his brain! He has been past his prime for well over ten years now but he has still never been stopped or knocked out in a fight and unless it happens in his next fight it will probably never happen to him!
I thought it was close, but I was shocked when they called Griffins name, especially with a 116-112 scorecard, since I had it 7-5 Toney, plus it's a shame Cortez didn't see Griffin glove touch the canvas in the 3rd. Well at least a shame for Toney not for Griffin.
Montell Griffin was a very solid fighter but what was up with his balance? Everytime he got hit with something clean in his career it's like his whole body would move funny and he'd lose his balance.
VERY close fight, I had it like Duane Ford, a DRAW. I have no problem with either fighter winning by 1 or 2 points, which Griffin won by. I love how George Foreman was admiring Toney's work against the ropes and the body punching.
21:58 that is beautiful boxing. Shoulder rolling the right hand come back with the clean hard counter and Griffin nearly on his back. James Toney was a different level of fighter.
In the 9th round at 45:52, you see a good example of why toney was winning the fight. They're exchanging and toney nails griffin with a straight right that snapped his head back. In the middle of an exchange that punch may have gone unnoticed by the judges. Toney landed hard clean shots like that all night. His punches had an effect on griffin but he wasn't being hurt by griffin . Griffin did well, especially very early because he would lip to the side and land a punch that caught toney off guard. Griffin also landed a straight jab and left hook often in the first few rounds. Toney is a wizard in the ring and he adjusted well within a round or so, then began to control the fight. I think griffin impressed the judges because he out performed expectations but he never had control and he was less effective as the rounds went by . Toney wins a lot of rounds because he slips and blocks a lot of punches. griffin got hit by most of toney's punches. He doesn't avoid nor block punches well and toney is deadly accurate. There was no doubt who was in control of the fight and who dictated positioning and the flow of the fight. There's no chance whatsoever that griffin won the fight; many of his punches missed or were blocked but I think the judges didn't realize that. Toney wasn't being hurt at any time,........ but he staggered griffin several times. The 'knockdown' wasn't a knockdown at all. Toney slipped the first punch and the 2nd punch wasn't strong enough to move him. He stumbled/lost balance causing him to fall back into the ropes; it was a half second after the punch so it clearly wasn't a result of the punch.
Eddie Futch can break down any style and craft a boxer to crack that style. He did against Ali He did it against Toney He did it against Holyfield He did it against Jackson He knows what it takes to dissect a difficult style. This style demonstrated Toney's susceptibility to a fast left hook.
james toney was in the top 3 or 4 best of his generation (hopkins,roy jones,mike tyson) and this guy montell griffen fought a brilliant fight here to win a very close boxing match
Griffin was competitive in this fight for sure but Foreman is not far off. Griffin didn't win a round in my books either, he had a couple rounds that he almost could have had but Toney just does so much, he does everything the untrained eye can see and then he does all the little things you really need to know boxing to see. Toney did all of those things in this fight..
The announcers have no visual coordination. They never see what actually takes place in the ring. George Foremen is good, but the other 2 'professional' announcers don't see it for what it is very often. In the 7th, Griffin hit Toney with a slapping left hook, that didn't hit Toney hard enough to get his attention, let alone hurt Toney. The punch didn't land clean, and Toney moves away in a leisurely manner. He stumbled against the ropes, but clearly not from the force of a punch. The other guy that gives his score and opinion between rounds, said if Toney was hit and goes down, it's a knockdown. True normally, but Toney took another step after the punch, and lost balance awkwardly looking for the ropes. If a fighter is punched, how much later does it count? In other words, by exaggeration let's say, if toney was hit and 10 seconds later he tripps and falls, is that a knockdown? Of course not, and neither is it a knockdown if he stumbles backwards 1 second after the punch. If thats' not correct, then why didn't this experienced referee call a knockdown? A stumble or loss of balance can't be called a knockdown, unless it happens all in one motion. Thats' the key; Toney had a second after the punch to step back, then started to fall awkwardly. It takes a coordinated mind to see the difference, but these guys often miss things like this. As I said, kudo's to big George, he's been in there many times, he knows what's going on in the ring.
James Toney lost this fight because he wanted to fight the short man's fight. Instead of boxing the shorter guy, he went in to trade with him. It seems to me that his conditioning was not up to par when he was in his best of shape. I think that he had trouble making the 175lbs limit also. Toney was a great fighter but didn't had the discipline to get to the next level. In this sport, you got to give 100% commitment to training and focus. Not to get by by talent alone. And that was his downfall. Montell Griffin showed that he was a pretty good fighter. I think that Toney underestimated him. I am a Toney's fan. I think that he lost this fight. It was not a robbery. I don't know what the great George Foreman was watching.
Toney threw more punches, landed more, and landed all the heavy shots;..............how does he lose? Griffin was throwing slapping punches , mostly landing on the sides and around the back of Toney. If you watched carefully, the last 4 or 5 rounds especially, griffins' arms got heavy and he rarely landed a solid punch above Toneys' chest. Toney was hurting Griffin all night; he staggered him 3 times. Toney wasn't feeling Montells' punches, he was walking right through them. If toney deserves criticism, it would be for being a little too passive . He could have, I believe, made the last couple rounds easieir to score. I think if Toney went after him when he hurt griffin,he could have knocked him out. Conversely, Toney could have dropped his hands and took all Griffin had to offer. Toney was the boss most of the fight. He did enough to win..........7-4-1
Griffin was competitive in this fight for sure but Foreman is not far off. Griffin didn't win a round in my books either, he had a couple rounds that he almost could have had but Toney just does so much, he does everything the untrained eye can see and then he does all the little things you really need to know boxing to see. Toney did all of those things in this fight.
AKAMUSICkeepit100 I agree,......Toney is extremely talented, landing shots and doing things the announcers often miss. I appreciate his skills so I watch very closely, and when you consider his blazing hand speed, good power, combination punching, great defense, well balanced style and footwork,......what is there that he can't do? He's one of the most coordinated athletes on top of all his skills. I've never seen a fighter so relaxed and under control. even when he's losing, he never panics or gets out of control. A good example was the Nunn fight. Toney was losing all night, but he was calm and cool as could be, and he found a spot in the 11th round and laid Nunn down for a nap. Against Jirov, he weathered constant pressure all night, never panicked, just kept wearing him down. It was a long, drawn out process, and with only 10 seconds left, he finally put Jirov on his back. Toney just refused to stop hitting Jirov in that last round, he was going to knock Jirov down one way or another. When he beat Holyfield, Evander came out aggressive and the crowd was behind him. He won the 1st round, and was still aggressive early in the 2nd round. Toney slowly turned up the heat, and he landed right hand after right hand for 7 or 8 rounds, until Holyfield collapsed. Who would have ever thought Toney would beat Holyfield, as Evander was beating Tyson while Toney was at middleweight. Overall, he's accomplished some things that nobody else has. He didn't have a trouble-free career by no means, how much better if he had a steady life and one really good trainer throughout? One of the all-time best in my opinion..........
MrMarco855 Your scores indicate it was very close. There were lots of close rounds. This wasn't an easy fight to score. Like you said, sometimes Toney was being passive, and that allowed Griffin to win close rounds by out-working Toney. I scored it a Draw. I could see it going either way by a 1 round or 2.
MrMarco855 Roy Jones Jr. predicted Toney would beat Holyfield easy. So easy that he went straight to the casino and bet on Toney to win. Holyfield's style is made for him and was past his prime, too. The Jirov fight was one of his best performance ever in my opinion. A great performance against a prime undefeated Champion. You don't see many fighters with a "well-balanced style" like Toney. He does everything well. His only flaw is being out of shape. Haha!
@@johnkemple ok name 14 outher people with his resume and his achievements he went up. From middleweight to Heavyweight. And done great things at all weights
Wonder what this fight would have been like if James had boxed instead of brawled, defended more, punched less, countered instead of initiated, could he have controlled Griffin and had a much more decisive victory?
Griffin had to fight this fight like Tyson did against taller fighters. But his chin and lack of punching power didnt help. Not to forget head movement was important too.
It is funny, the slip in round 7 that these guys are all scoring as a knock down except George Foreman despite the ref knowing it was a slip did not call a knock down. So all these Toney oppressors scoring the knock down even after watching the replay of proof of a legit slip and loss of balance are scoring the round 10-8 Griffin, but Toney dominated the entire round and if Griffin through a few less punches and wasnt just trying to smother the punishments from Toney it would have been a 10-8 round for Toney without a knock down on domination alone.
Toney dominated round 7 so even if these liars cheaters and stealers wanted to score the knock down for Griffi it would have been a 9-9 round. How could George Foreman sit there and listen to this clearly biased and fixed commentary and do or say nothing to point it out. It turned out they lead the charge in the fixed commentary even though Foreman was scoring and calling the fight right, for Toney. They lead the charge to one of the most significant robberiez in boxing history. I would have snapped on them if I was foreman and I would have been very upset at the result if I was him as well.
Even with the bullshit knockdown call, if Toney was winning the rest of the round, it's suppose to be scored a 10-9 round. The knock down was bullshit, as you say, it could have been 10-8 Toney the way he was thumping Griffin. There was either an agenda against Toney,............. or a lot of ignorant commentators and judges. Big George saw it right...........
From 19:43 Toney hits Griffin with a beautiful 4 punch combination body & head and the Griffin retaliates with two straight punches that Toney blocks mostly as he moves away towards the ropes and guess what? The commentator says and Griffin gets the better of that exchange. I believe Toney was so fast and accurate that most of his moves were missed in there.
George gets a lot of crap for his commentary but I gotta hand it to the guy for seeing what was up at 20:25. He saw what Toney was doing to Montell, going to the body under the jab each time was hurting, making Montell afraid to throw left straights - leaving him really predictable for Toney's specialty counters - a real recipe for disaster for Montell. Merchant playing the contrarian was proved wrong right away as usual
Toney went to the body the whole fight, an investment that never paid off. Griffins cardio was legendary this night. Sure Toney is a better fighter BUT he wanted the kill in the late rounds that never happened. Griffin stayed aggressive and landed enough to make it a fight. Toney needed a decisive victory he was the 4-1 favorite. The judges dont have an agenda. Toneys whole gameplan got stopped.
George Foreman sounds like somebody that has never seen a fight before not just this fight I've seen some absolutely ridiculous comments during flights that make no sense.
Complete robbery! James Toney is a master at his craft! The inside punishment he delivered was a work of art. He won this fight by 4 rounds easily. And this is not to take anything away from Griffin who was a great fighter.
Wish they would’ve shown the pre fight press conference for this fight, where they’re facing off talking smack to each other then Toney shoves Griffin then Griffin pops him in the face 👊
6/22/2022 montell griffin is MAD cuz James posted that short right hand on his IG griffin is arguing with everybody in the comment section, including me 🤣🤣🤣
Toney's counter right hands were some of the most dangerous weapons in his bag of tricks. I've watched most of his fights and he's hurt just about everyone with it! Marvelous demonstration of skills.
+TopShelf He throws sharp inside counter punches, sometimes in combination. They're short, snapping shots he throws so fast that very often the fans, announcers and judges don't see them land. I see them landing and you see them also apparently. Toney is an all time great and my 2nd favorite fighter.
Both toney & evander had great counter right-hands
Everyone except for Jones 😂
Toney got fucked by the judges, he clearly won this fight.
Facts
Close fight. I thought Toney edged it too.
Foreman is hands down the best commentator ever.
Facts unbiased and knowledgeable
@@damacc594 unbiased unless he’s watching Hopkins 😂
He's terrible, and I love George, hell I just cooked burgers on his grill tonight, but he sucked ass as a commentator 70% of the time
Not after watching the Trinidad-Hopkins fight. Dude was biased as hell!!
Freeeeeeeeewee3eew@@jackierobdmi3364
Montel Griffin is one of the underrated fighters. He actually is pretty good
exactly...montel was one of the most over-looked fighters of that era. beat a lotta top fighters.
That's about it. Pretty good....
I said the same
@ThePasterio good enough to beat the greats...what does that make him
When watching a master fighter you have to know boxing really well, in its purest form and a true understanding of the nuances of pugilism. Those are the things it takes in order to truly appreciate and see what James Toney is doing in the ring. Toney's defensive glove placement is incredible, his hands are not there and then a milli second and Toney block, rolled and slipped it. I tell you this negative agenda against James Toney coming from inside the boxing world following the Jones jr loss and Jackie Khallen incident is deep, even the boxing punch stats severely robbing Toney and boosting his opponents.
His fight against Iran Barkley was a work of art.
Toney has and still is over rated.. RJJ for Life
Toney a true great and a master of the sweet science
Tony lost this fight,, montell won the last 2 rounds.
Well spoken my friend 💪🏾
if you look at their records it is beyond amazing that toney lost to griffin twice.
Montels style is the reason.... he has toneys number thats all it is
Both wins were questionable. Toney, while always an effective & accurate puncher, didn’t display the speed and quick hands like he did in his earlier middleweight & super middleweight days. (Look at his fights with Iran Barkley & Charles Williams as examples.) A lot of times, the judges seem to be moved more by activity more than anything, and Toney’s style doesn’t always sway the judges.
@@Slippin22 Toney was dismantling Montel style. What fight was you watching?
What rounds did Toney have trouble? How and why?
@@creoleDJ That my friend is a spot on comment. The judges where always harsh on Toney..
@@danibar7 💯👍🏽 I honestly think they (the judges) were still punishing Toney for his loss to Jones, and maybe they figured a Jones-Griffin match was better for business than a Jones-Toney rematch…you never can tell with all the politics involved 🤷🏽♂️
This was only Griffin's 15th fight. Usually a guy wouldn't step up to this level until he had at least 25 or 30 fights. They must have thought he was very skilled to put him in with Toney this early in his career.
Before griffin fought Toney, only 2 of his 14 opponents had winning records. The combined record of the 14 opponents was 82-137. He fought against very weak competition, then they put him in with toney, who was 44-1 going in. Toney must have been at least a 10-1 favorite;... a lot of money could have been made if you knew how good Griffin was. I think Toney won this fight, but Griffin showed that he was a very good fighter.
Foreman is so biased towards Toney LOL.
Because Toney has that Joe Frazier mentality. Which is bad for black boxers. Ali proved it to be true and Foreman realized it after facing Ali in Africa.
@@Blacattacsquadron nonsense nigga
@@Blacattacsquadron racist comment.
@@Blacattacsquadronthis could be the stupidest comment in the history of UA-cam.
First off, you don’t even define what “mentality” you are talking about. Weak.
Second, no qualities associated with Joe Frazier could be bad.
Third, by stating that this unnamed, undefined quality is bad specifically for black boxers, do you mean it’s potentially good for white boxers?
Quality of language governs quality of thought and both your language and your thoughts are disorganized and unimpressive.
In conclusion - your level of intelligence makes me sad.
Foreman called him Montell Williams😂
Ah well he probably talks a good fight lol
When lol
Do you have the exact time when ?
Do you know when he says that ?
zog noty shut up you dog
That reaction Toney had after the decision was like, “Welp...there goes my rematch with Roy.”
"Should have trained harder and stayed away from those pies..."
He wasn't gonna whip prime roy anyway.
@@SCORP1ONF1REif this Toney or the Toney who fought Iran Barkley, Prince Charles Williams, Michael Nunn, and Tim Littles showed up against Roy instead of the drained and out of shape Toney, things may have been different.
@@Myndir🤣🤣 Lots of people forget that Toney naturally was near cruiserweight & heavyweight range but would sweat down to fight at middleweight. Eventually it caught up with him, as the Jones fight showed..
JAMES TONEY was a beast fought them all never cried when he lost so glad and proud to say he was a Detroit fighter who walked the way he talked it much Respect. Ijs
Great fight from Montell. I had an opportunity to get a bit of work in his gym while I was in the States a few years back. Amazing time, great Chicago gym and I got some great pointers. I'd recommend that gym to anyone... especially if you live in Chicago. Whatever level you're at, he can guide you.
Haha wow Griffin did the chicken dance in RD 3. Montell was underrated. That jab and hook are deadly but Toney got a good chin
George Foreman is a Cheerleader! I'd rather listen to someone who is really Relaying what's ACTUALLY is taking place!
That's the truth...!
7 - 5 RDS, I scored for James Toney. Close fight. I like the counter right hand that staggered Griffin in RD3. Drunken Griffin all over the ring. Not bad for a fighter coming up going up against someone like Toney.
I Love James Toney he's one my AllTime Favourites, but this was the beginning of the end. because he could not control his eating, and his temper. Bill Miller and Jackie Kallen were right on money. He should've listened. And clearly won this fight and was robbed.
You sound ignorant
Competitive fight! I had it 116-112 for Toney, there were many close rounds! Foreman's commentary was truly atrocious on this one.
agreed Foreman was terrible.
What do you mean “on this one”?! He’s atrocious on almost ALL of them! Biased commentary, misspronounced names (Montell Williams, Antonio Tolliver)…
nbbnnv
The first in a series of robberies from James Toney serving a negative agenda that was manifested from the Jones Jr loss and the Jackie Khallen incident. James Toney, a fighter who has truly been robbed the most when it comes to how high a level fighter he is and in regards to his legendary status. These robberies against James Toney through out the years are some of the worst and have had the greatest impact of any in the history of any sport. The reason I say that is because the results and ramifications of these injustices really altered and hurt boxing as a whole as well the direction of this specific era of boxing. As far as James Toney goes, he was to great for them to truly ruin him or his legacy. He would go on as we all know to carve out a career of world championship caliber and legendary status among all time greats. His legacy remains intact and he will forever be known as a great fighter, no questions. This negative agenda against James effected more so boxing as a whole, the fights that should have happened didn't happen throughout two separate eras, there will forever be shadows casted among the other great fighters of this era that ducked James Toney. There ducking James Toney was masked and aided by these robberies of sure James Toney victories. This agenda protected many stars, world champions at the time and prospect stars coming up of two different eras. These robberies and subsequent duckings were an excuse, a scapegoat so it would be acceptable to the unknowing watching it happen ever so blindly that certain fights and events did not and would not happen. For example, a rematch between Toney and Roy Jones never happened, Toney vs The Klitchkos never happened and I could go on and on to name big fights that not only James should have had but boxing should have had, the fans should have had. This negative agenda and masquerade type deception enabled this to be acceptable to the public and the people who'm were not involved or did not have knowledge or actually acknowledge such an agenda or insiders movement. The hard pill to swallow, the hardest bullet to take in this is that as great as James has been, as great as his legacy is; he could have had an even greater legend and legacy. The possibility Numerous more world titles, many more defining victories and a possible moniker or designation among the majority as maybe the greatest of all time... Not only that, but boxing did itself a tremendous disservice in implementing such an ugly plan, the end the 90's era could have been even greater than it was and would have done the era even more justice. It literally killed boxing in the era of the 2000's especially during his tenure as top contender of 5 years in the heavyweight division, a division that ached and desperately needed a fighter like Toney as world champion. All that being said, They tried, they tried there damn hardest, but they would not stop him, this agenda would not succeed, they may have won some battles but James Toney won the war.
James, is that you?
SiamHomeSource heheehe
SiamHomeSource lolol
Pernell Whitaker was robbed more.
SiamHomeSource really. I hope this guy doesn't think the Jones fight was a robbery. The truth is, James Toney was a lazy fighter. He rarely came into a big fight in shape. As for robberies, he even got a disputed decision over Dave Tiberi. Many felt that was a robbery in Toney's favor.
Griffin really did the Salsa in there
What I loved about James Toney is when he lost a fight it would always be by decision. He was robbed In some of his decision losses like this one but he very rarely got hurt in a fight and has only been knocked down 3 times in his career which started in 1988 and he has a fight coming up in 2017! I just hope he retires after that fight like he should have years ago to prevent anymore damage to his brain! He has been past his prime for well over ten years now but he has still never been stopped or knocked out in a fight and unless it happens in his next fight it will probably never happen to him!
Toney vs. Ruddock was just announced today. OMG
Griffin was a great technician for fighters to study. Toney too, of course.
I thought it was close, but I was shocked when they called Griffins name, especially with a 116-112 scorecard, since I had it 7-5 Toney, plus it's a shame Cortez didn't see Griffin glove touch the canvas in the 3rd. Well at least a shame for Toney not for Griffin.
Montell Griffin was a very solid fighter but what was up with his balance? Everytime he got hit with something clean in his career it's like his whole body would move funny and he'd lose his balance.
Haha, reminds me of Brit heavyweight Danny Williams; it's like their central nervous systems are wired wrongly.
playaflyJOE27. That’s because he always leans back.
VERY close fight, I had it like Duane Ford, a DRAW. I have no problem with either fighter winning by 1 or 2 points, which Griffin won by. I love how George Foreman was admiring Toney's work against the ropes and the body punching.
james is so relaxed he doesn't make you fight his fight he tricks you in to fighting is fight by being so relaxed
21:58 that is beautiful boxing. Shoulder rolling the right hand come back with the clean hard counter and Griffin nearly on his back. James Toney was a different level of fighter.
21:57
Griffin is a real cutie in there. They don't teach that stuff so much these days.
In the 9th round at 45:52, you see a good example of why toney was winning the fight. They're exchanging and toney nails griffin with a straight right that snapped his head back. In the middle of an exchange that punch may have gone unnoticed by the judges. Toney landed hard clean shots like that all night. His punches had an effect on griffin but he wasn't being hurt by griffin .
Griffin did well, especially very early because he would lip to the side and land a punch that caught toney off guard. Griffin also landed a straight jab and left hook often in the first few rounds. Toney is a wizard in the ring and he adjusted well within a round or so, then began to control the fight. I think griffin impressed the judges because he out performed expectations but he never had control and he was less effective as the rounds went by . Toney wins a lot of rounds because he slips and blocks a lot of punches. griffin got hit by most of toney's punches. He doesn't avoid nor block punches well and toney is deadly accurate.
There was no doubt who was in control of the fight and who dictated positioning and the flow of the fight. There's no chance whatsoever that griffin won the fight; many of his punches missed or were blocked but I think the judges didn't realize that. Toney wasn't being hurt at any time,........ but he staggered griffin several times. The 'knockdown' wasn't a knockdown at all. Toney slipped the first punch and the 2nd punch wasn't strong enough to move him. He stumbled/lost balance causing him to fall back into the ropes; it was a half second after the punch so it clearly wasn't a result of the punch.
Judges don’t appreciate a chess match, they like checkers instead! 🤣🤣
Griffin was a better fighter than most would give him credit for, he handled himself well in what was supposed to be a cake walk for Toney
Eddie Futch can break down any style and craft a boxer to crack that style.
He did against Ali
He did it against Toney
He did it against Holyfield
He did it against Jackson
He knows what it takes to dissect a difficult style.
This style demonstrated Toney's susceptibility to a fast left hook.
That's the punch Roy put him down with!!
Astute observation
Well said... futch and emmanual steward= best two trainers ever
Griffin had some good hand speed
Fucking Robbery
james toney was in the top 3 or 4 best of his generation (hopkins,roy jones,mike tyson) and this guy montell griffen fought a brilliant fight here to win a very close boxing match
Griffin was competitive in this fight for sure but Foreman is not far off. Griffin didn't win a round in my books either, he had a couple rounds that he almost could have had but Toney just does so much, he does everything the untrained eye can see and then he does all the little things you really need to know boxing to see. Toney did all of those things in this fight..
James toney is very underrated and he certainly is old school boxing bill Miller is an old school trainer which we don't have anymore in boxing
What happened to Bill Miller why they split
39:48 - beautiful boxing from Toney, totally missed by Jim lol.
completely!!
Lmao he get pieced up by Toney, miss all his shots and all Jim can talk about is how his confidence is rising
The announcers have no visual coordination. They never see what actually takes place in the ring.
George Foremen is good, but the other 2 'professional' announcers don't see it for what it is very often. In the 7th, Griffin hit Toney with a slapping left hook, that didn't hit Toney hard enough to get his attention, let alone hurt Toney. The punch didn't land clean, and Toney moves away in a leisurely manner. He stumbled against the ropes, but clearly not from the force of a punch. The other guy that gives his score and opinion between rounds, said if Toney was hit and goes down, it's a knockdown. True normally, but Toney took another step after the punch, and lost balance awkwardly looking for the ropes. If a fighter is punched, how much later does it count? In other words, by exaggeration let's say, if toney was hit and 10 seconds later he tripps and falls, is that a knockdown? Of course not, and neither is it a knockdown if he stumbles backwards 1 second after the punch.
If thats' not correct, then why didn't this experienced referee call a knockdown? A stumble or loss of balance can't be called a knockdown, unless it happens all in one motion. Thats' the key; Toney had a second after the punch to step back, then started to fall awkwardly. It takes a coordinated mind to see the difference, but these guys often miss things like this.
As I said, kudo's to big George, he's been in there many times, he knows what's going on in the ring.
MrMarco855. Well Griffith was actually stat padding. They need to change the point system.
I don't understand how the commentators think Tony won the 4th round
It's strange but Toney never fought dirty. For a bad boy like him that's surprising. But of course he did test positive for steroids a few times...
@Gloria Washington Nope. He also came up dirty versus some fat dude (who himself had been doping). Can't remember his name though.
Great fight and great performance by "Ice" Griffin!
I really appreciate George Foreman's wisdom.
Facts he called the almost knockdown in round 3
Griffin was the busier fighter that simple and he was good, James fought in spurts, James lack of intensity in conditioning is the issue
Hard punches and accuracy won it for Toney and I score it a 10 - 8 rd on that almost knocked down
Господи помилуй! Интересные, нестандартные бойцы! Спасибо!
I remember watching this fight as a teen, and 17 years later I still believe Griffin did enough to win. Thanks for posting!
Round 3 was a knockdown!
and 7 round too
Gloves didn't touch the canvas tho so no knockdown
114 to 112 toney
James Toney lost this fight because he wanted to fight the short man's fight. Instead of boxing the shorter guy, he went in to trade with him. It seems to me that his conditioning was not up to par when he was in his best of shape. I think that he had trouble making the 175lbs limit also. Toney was a great fighter but didn't had the discipline to get to the next level. In this sport, you got to give 100% commitment to training and focus. Not to get by by talent alone. And that was his downfall. Montell Griffin showed that he was a pretty good fighter. I think that Toney underestimated him. I am a Toney's fan. I think that he lost this fight. It was not a robbery. I don't know what the great George Foreman was watching.
Look at the moves from Toney at 35:10. Cant stop laughing at it.
Griffin for the courage he gave this victory. A slight advantage was on the side of Tony
У Тони есть недостаток который использовал Гриффин , если боец не идёт на Тони и грамотно двигается то Тони теряет нить боя
Forman favored Toney a lot but this was actually an even fight.
This fight should be taught to all boxers who turn pro.
Toney was robbed so many times. It sucks
He got his share of gifts as well, remember Dave Tiberi?
George18798 yeah I said the same thing
sas6789 and? You really Comparing 1 fight to multiple robberies?
@@ss-md3vj Tiberi was a close fight. Toney blocked most of his punches with elbows and gloves.
@@lefez9015 Even Toney himself admits he lost the Tiberi fight actually
that woman put him off the fight and griffin beat him twice
No way he won
Toney threw more punches, landed more, and landed all the heavy shots;..............how does he lose? Griffin was throwing slapping punches , mostly landing on the sides and around the back of Toney. If you watched carefully, the last 4 or 5 rounds especially, griffins' arms got heavy and he rarely landed a solid punch above Toneys' chest.
Toney was hurting Griffin all night; he staggered him 3 times. Toney wasn't feeling Montells' punches, he was walking right through them.
If toney deserves criticism, it would be for being a little too passive . He could have, I believe, made the last couple rounds easieir to score. I think if Toney went after him when he hurt griffin,he could have knocked him out. Conversely, Toney could have dropped his hands and took all Griffin had to offer. Toney was the boss most of the fight. He did enough to win..........7-4-1
Griffin was competitive in this fight for sure but Foreman is not far off. Griffin didn't win a round in my books either, he had a couple rounds that he almost could have had but Toney just does so much, he does everything the untrained eye can see and then he does all the little things you really need to know boxing to see. Toney did all of those things in this fight.
AKAMUSICkeepit100 I agree,......Toney is extremely talented, landing shots and doing things the announcers often miss. I appreciate his skills so I watch very closely, and when you consider his blazing hand speed, good power, combination punching, great defense, well balanced style and footwork,......what is there that he can't do?
He's one of the most coordinated athletes on top of all his skills. I've never seen a fighter so relaxed and under control. even when he's losing, he never panics or gets out of control. A good example was the Nunn fight. Toney was losing all night, but he was calm and cool as could be, and he found a spot in the 11th round and laid Nunn down for a nap.
Against Jirov, he weathered constant pressure all night, never panicked, just kept wearing him down. It was a long, drawn out process, and with only 10 seconds left, he finally put Jirov on his back. Toney just refused to stop hitting Jirov in that last round, he was going to knock Jirov down one way or another.
When he beat Holyfield, Evander came out aggressive and the crowd was behind him. He won the 1st round, and was still aggressive early in the 2nd round. Toney slowly turned up the heat, and he landed right hand after right hand for 7 or 8 rounds, until Holyfield collapsed. Who would have ever thought Toney would beat Holyfield, as Evander was beating Tyson while Toney was at middleweight.
Overall, he's accomplished some things that nobody else has. He didn't have a trouble-free career by no means, how much better if he had a steady life and one really good trainer throughout? One of the all-time best in my opinion..........
MrMarco855 Your scores indicate it was very close. There were lots of close rounds. This wasn't an easy fight to score. Like you said, sometimes Toney was being passive, and that allowed Griffin to win close rounds by out-working Toney. I scored it a Draw. I could see it going either way by a 1 round or 2.
MrMarco855 Roy Jones Jr. predicted Toney would beat Holyfield easy. So easy that he went straight to the casino and bet on Toney to win. Holyfield's style is made for him and was past his prime, too. The Jirov fight was one of his best performance ever in my opinion. A great performance against a prime undefeated Champion. You don't see many fighters with a "well-balanced style" like Toney. He does everything well. His only flaw is being out of shape. Haha!
TONEY'S JIROV PERFORMANCE WAS ONE OF HIS GREATEST PERFORMANCES. A PERFECT, SUSPENSE THRILLER.
James Tony. Is probably Top 10. Of all time fighters 💯
maybe 15th never the top ten
@@johnkemple ok name 14 outher people with his resume and his achievements he went up. From middleweight to Heavyweight. And done great things at all weights
This was a damn good fight toney and griffin respectively were always in great fights
They don't give Griffin the respect that Toney has.
Toney is funny af his defense was iconic
Wonder what this fight would have been like if James had boxed instead of brawled,
defended more, punched less, countered instead of initiated,
could he have controlled Griffin and had a much more decisive victory?
Thanks for the video, COUNTERRIGHT
23:06 stanky leg 😂😂😂
that was the right result for me.toney s work rate is always too low
Griffin had to fight this fight like Tyson did against taller fighters. But his chin and lack of punching power didnt help. Not to forget head movement was important too.
It is funny, the slip in round 7 that these guys are all scoring as a knock down except George Foreman despite the ref knowing it was a slip did not call a knock down. So all these Toney oppressors scoring the knock down even after watching the replay of proof of a legit slip and loss of balance are scoring the round 10-8 Griffin, but Toney dominated the entire round and if Griffin through a few less punches and wasnt just trying to smother the punishments from Toney it would have been a 10-8 round for Toney without a knock down on domination alone.
Toney dominated round 7 so even if these liars cheaters and stealers wanted to score the knock down for Griffi it would have been a 9-9 round. How could George Foreman sit there and listen to this clearly biased and fixed commentary and do or say nothing to point it out. It turned out they lead the charge in the fixed commentary even though Foreman was scoring and calling the fight right, for Toney. They lead the charge to one of the most significant robberiez in boxing history. I would have snapped on them if I was foreman and I would have been very upset at the result if I was him as well.
Even with the bullshit knockdown call, if Toney was winning the rest of the round, it's suppose to be scored a 10-9 round. The knock down was bullshit, as you say, it could have been 10-8 Toney the way he was thumping Griffin. There was either an agenda against Toney,............. or a lot of ignorant commentators and judges. Big George saw it right...........
Griffin was very good technically just like toney
Jones Jr. messed Toney’s head up.
@Lions Truth My comment went completely over your head.
Toney won this fight with harder clean punches
one of the worst decisions in boxing history
From 19:43 Toney hits Griffin with a beautiful 4 punch combination body & head and the Griffin retaliates with two straight punches that Toney blocks mostly as he moves away towards the ropes and guess what? The commentator says and Griffin gets the better of that exchange. I believe Toney was so fast and accurate that most of his moves were missed in there.
man Jim Lampley is giving way to much credit to griffin
Tony had a tendency to get his feet out of position. And lose balance. This is the fourth fight where i've seen this happen
George gets a lot of crap for his commentary but I gotta hand it to the guy for seeing what was up at 20:25. He saw what Toney was doing to Montell, going to the body under the jab each time was hurting, making Montell afraid to throw left straights - leaving him really predictable for Toney's specialty counters - a real recipe for disaster for Montell. Merchant playing the contrarian was proved wrong right away as usual
Jones Ran From James Toney the Whole Fight Cause He was Scared of Him,Fact Right There
All of those pitty patty punches from Roy Jones, got found out later.
Toney went to the body the whole fight, an investment that never paid off. Griffins cardio was legendary this night. Sure Toney is a better fighter BUT he wanted the kill in the late rounds that never happened. Griffin stayed aggressive and landed enough to make it a fight. Toney needed a decisive victory he was the 4-1 favorite. The judges dont have an agenda. Toneys whole gameplan got stopped.
39:48, put the play speed on 0.25x, this guy is a wizard. Toney is unbelievable.
“If Montell Williams won that fight, cows 🐄 lay eggs.🥚🥚🥚”
This Was One Helluva Fight, Thought Toney Won.
Why did the crowd start booing theyre watching a master at work tf
This fight was close. Really could gone eater way
Love George's commentary!
George Foreman sounds like somebody that has never seen a fight before not just this fight I've seen some absolutely ridiculous comments during flights that make no sense.
Yeah, he made some very dumb comments.
What rds did Ice win cause I didn’t see any!
Rd 5 was counterpunching 101 taught by professor James Toney.
Complete robbery! James Toney is a master at his craft! The inside punishment he delivered was a work of art. He won this fight by 4 rounds easily.
And this is not to take anything away from Griffin who was a great fighter.
Two great counter punchers
Whilst i thought Toney edged the fight but OMG, Foreman is so biased towards Toney it's ridiculous.
Griffin was like a lightheavyweight Ezzard Charles. Toney is like a lightheavyweight George Foreman.
Wish they would’ve shown the pre fight press conference for this fight, where they’re facing off talking smack to each other then Toney shoves Griffin then Griffin pops him in the face 👊
6/22/2022
montell griffin is MAD cuz James posted that short right hand on his IG
griffin is arguing with everybody in the comment section, including me
🤣🤣🤣
Love how big George corrected himself on eating hot dogs at end. Already thinking ahead with that lean mean grill.
The grill was introduced in 1994, before this fight took place.
James should have worked out with the heavy bag. It would have improved his knockout power so he didn't rely on the judges so much.
I can't believe they always show the same clip where Toney looks terrible against RJJ. In the long run, Toney was a much better fighter
lol griffin got wobbled like a dead chicken without a head
George is smoking something here
Toney's 1 weakness was he wasn't a front foot fighter and needed his opponents to go first and come at him.
If you stood off and boxed . . . . . . .
1:03:10 LMAO
Griffin fought smarter that's why he won.
Единственным кто деморализавал Тони .был Рой Джонс